Episode 82 - Interview with Darren of Zulu Alpha Straps

Published on Thu, 21 May 2020 00:32:00 -0700

Synopsis

This is a conversation with Darren from Zulu Alpha, a company that makes unique watch straps designed for military and law enforcement personnel. Darren shares the interesting origin story of how he created the Zulu Alpha straps, starting with repurposing a rifle sling from his time in the British military. He discusses the design process, materials used, and the decision to make the straps from polyester instead of nylon for better abrasion resistance. Darren also talks about his partnership with brands like Christopher Ward and how he got into creating custom straps for military and law enforcement units.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is the 1420 Podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Everett	Everett, how are you? You really drug that out.
Andrew	Well, I couldn't get a hold of it. It was a little bit wet and I couldn't get a hold of the tab.
Everett	Oh, you were just working on the timing.
Andrew	Well, I was struggling on the tab the whole time, and then I had to focus for a moment.
Everett	Uh, I'm good. I'm good. You know, I, uh, I'm trying to recover a little bit. I, I had, uh, my long run as I often do on Sundays and, uh, I came back and I was just trash. I sort of run my, ran myself raw out of, out of fuel as it were. And so spent the last 90 minutes to two hours trying to rehydrate and get some calories in me. Uh, but other than that, I'm really good. I mean, I can't complain about anything substantive. No.
Andrew	And we're back in studio. Back in studio. 40 in 20 is part of phase one reopening here in the beautiful state of Oregon.
Everett	That's right. You gave me a big kiss when you got here.
Andrew	Right on the mouth. A little bit of tongue. Not a lot. Just a little bit. It was very classy.
Everett	Well, fuck. We're right back in it. Yeah.
Andrew	Right where we left off.
Everett	But I'm doing well.
Andrew	How are you? Good. I'm a little tired. I got home from work at my normal time at about like 7.15 this morning and went to bed and got up at noon and powered through to get dressed and get over here. So my day is really just beginning.
Everett	Getting dressed was a real struggle.
Andrew	Yeah, I mean, you got to do your three S's in the morning. I only did two of them. Sure. And I didn't shave or shower for that matter.
Everett	So I just took a shit.
Andrew	Yeah, I just made a poop drop and then, you know, got dressed and did the like wrangle because it's It's weird getting up in the middle of the day and starting your morning routine. It throws off the routine of the people who have already been up and are in their like trajectory of the day. So I had to course correct and help get everyone back moving in the direction they were already moving.
Everett	Yeah, but I'm good. You know what I'm excited about? And this is only going to be notable for anyone who's done recording. I've got you back on a dynamic mic. Oh my gosh. versus the condenser mics I've had you on. And I am so excited.
Andrew	You guys don't even know. I make so much noise. I'm like a toddler. You know how toddlers just are never quiet. Never quiet. They're never not moving. They're never quiet. If they're not talking, they're snoring. And if they're not snoring, they're farting. It's just a constant symphony of noise emitting from them. And that is me. I am like that. I've listened to my audio raw. I'm like, Don't envy Everett.
Everett	You know, by and large, I just, I just roll it out.
Andrew	The couple of episodes that I've edited, I'm like, nah, fuck it. It's sticking around.
Everett	I'm not going to get every single sniffle and, and slurp. Uh, but yes, I'm, I'm extremely excited because you know, we've never had, no one's ever come to us and said, your audio quality is really poopy.
Andrew	No one's ever said it's really good either.
Everett	Well, that's true. But, but being the guy who does the editing, you know, I think creators are always sort of, um, more worried about those things. You know, by and large, I think the people listening care more about the things we're saying, the people we're talking about, the things we're talking about than they do about the quality of our audio. But I obsess over it.
Andrew	Well, quality of our audio helps. It makes it an enjoyable listening experience.
Everett	Nobody likes listening to this. I think, I think bottom line is nobody notices if it's good, but, but it's, it's noticeable if it's not good. So,
Andrew	That's the magic of behind the scenes. And I'm just glad to be able to look at you while we're recording again. Not on fit. Not that weird upward angle where you like my neck sort of just like yeah, it's a It's nice to be back in studio to see you I can kick you Yeah, well, I don't I mean I never have I don't think so, but I could theoretically now at this point It's that options back on the table.
Everett	Well, so we are we are talking about watches today sort of sort of And we have a guest who you, if you've clicked on this podcast, unless you're just moving through life without paying attention, which if you are, good on you.
Andrew	We're catching up on episodes and maybe not reading the title of every one.
Everett	Oh yeah, they're just like cycling through.
Andrew	Yeah, we're binging. Very bingeable podcast.
Everett	So unless you're 40 and 20 binging, you probably already know that we've got live, on the line, live. With us.
Andrew	Well, yeah, so he's. Don't call in, it won't do you any good.
Everett	We got Darren from Zulu Alpha. Darren, how are you, man?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Very well, gentlemen.
Everett	How are you doing? Killing it, man. You know, you've been around, so you've heard sort of our general status. Anything fun or exciting for you today, this evening, as it were, for you?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Not really, mate. I try and take Sundays off. It's pretty much a six-day week for me, mate, with the business and things. So Sunday is is my day of house admin, if that makes any sense. So Sunday's the day I cut the lawn, Sunday's the day My wife will make me fix taps or faucets, as you guys call them. So yeah, a bit of that today, mate. A bit of just house husbandry, making sure that the wheels keep on turning. But on that, I must admit that I am quite impressed with your sound quality, gentlemen. I do listen and it makes me extremely envious. So yeah, there's a bit of feedback for you on that.
Everett	We really appreciate that. And you know what else I appreciate? I appreciate the term house husbandry. I do too. That's like a good double entendre there, right?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't know. I mean, it's, you look at it, you'd have a ship shandler or a ship's husbandry. You know, it's your job to look after things. It's mine to make sure that, you know, the walls don't fall down and the roof stays on and stuff like that.
Andrew	But you know, see, I was thinking of husbandry as like, like animal husbandry and breeding and, and, but with that, the, the, you know, the more of those house chores you do, the more likely that is to be your result.
Everett	So in the context of a, of a domestic, a domestic family, it's, it's got both meanings.
Andrew	I dig it, man.
Everett	You fold the laundry and you got some good odds. House husbandry is my, is my new, is my new term for having to do shit around the house.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Them odds are gone for me, lads. I've been married for a number of years now. And yeah, that's that's firmly, firmly out the window.
Andrew	Folding laundry is not sufficient anymore.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	I'd have to, I'd have to create a lamp and, you know, deliver three wishes, I think, mate.
Everett	You know, I found as long as I keep the dishes in control, I never have to touch the laundry. We can move on.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	This is dangerous.
Andrew	I don't think Kim or Sam listens anymore, but... No, it's like a deal.
Everett	Kim and I... Yeah, Kim definitely doesn't listen anymore. I've had enough.
Andrew	I listen to your ass all day. I cannot do it while I'm alone.
Everett	No, that's better for me too, though. It's nice to know that she... This is a safer space now. So, Darren, you are the owner the founder, the brain, and the muscle behind a brand, Zulu Alpha, Zed A, as you would call it, I think, watch straps. Tell us about Zulu Alpha, what you do now, and then later, I'd like to move back into the history of Zed A, as it were, and move in. But generally speaking, you guys make straps, right?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, we make watch straps of the NATO slash Zulu variety. It's neither one nor the other. In short, we make watch straps that are predominantly designed to be out in the field. By that I mean on the wrists of frontline operators globally, law enforcement guys, people in more challenging, enduring environments. We're not making fashion straps, although I try and make them as visually appealing as I can. They're tool straps, mill straps, it's function, that's the design behind them, that's what we do. As it stands, we supply customers across the globe. We also supply bespoke straps to military and law enforcement units across the globe. And yeah, that's basically it. Zulu Alpha straps in a nutshell. It's a bit of an elevator pitch. But yeah, if I had 10 seconds to tell you what I did, that would probably be how I would word it.
Everett	And so we're both wearing Zulu Alpha straps today. We are. I've got my I've got mine on the the military green or I can't remember the term that you use for this, but it's green in any event. Olive drab is what I would call this. Andrew's got a bond. I do a bond strap on his SSB. And I'll tell you, the strap is like nothing else I own.
Andrew	It was a little bit of it. Like when I when I got mine, I just I held it in my hand. And I held a watch face in my other hand. What am I going to do? I was like, okay. And I put it on one way. I was like, that's not right. Put it on the other way. I'm like, that's kind of right, but it's not right. And I fucked with it for, I don't know, probably, probably 10 minutes of just sitting at the table. And my wife's like, are you stupid? What is, what's happening over there? I'm like, no, just, just, just, you know, just, just quiet you. and and I I finally get it right and on and I I was so I was taken aback because it was I was like this this is a it was the most I felt really dumb for how complicated it was to to figure out and I think it's just me but once I got it on I was like dude this is why aren't why don't All straps feel this way. This is the best fitting nylon strap I've ever put on.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	I appreciate that. Yeah. I appreciate that. But believe me, you're not the only one to try and figure out how to put it on. It's, yeah, it's that different. and that radical, it goes against everything that you know about a NATO or a resume strap, how it should wear, where you would put the head of the watch. Everything's inverted.
Everett	Well, let's talk about that. Let's do it. Let's talk about that a little because it is different, right? So you said inverted, which I think is right. I think the first thing I had to learn was that you're not going to put it in top down like you would put in a NATO strap. You're going to put it in bottom up. And maybe you could do this both ways, but I found bottom up is the way. So there's some functional differences. You know, you said it's not really a Zulu strap. It's not really a NATO strap. It's something different. So let's talk about the functional differences, how you came to that.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Okay, so a NATO strap typically is two pieces. You've got your top piece, which is a long piece. On the underside of that, you've got your tail, which you tuck back into itself. A Zulu strap is a one-piece strap.
Everett	Just like a NATO strap, but without the flappy piece. The neutered.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	If you're looking at a strap right now as you're listening to this, one of the easiest tells or giveaways, aside from that tail underneath, Zulu straps tend to have circular buckles rather than squared off. That's what you'd have in a NATO typically. So in a nutshell, what we've done is basically made a Zulu strap, but the differentiator between them is the majority of Zulu or NATO straps will have a tang and a buckle. No, that's fine. Completely works. However, there are some issues with that if you're working or operating in changing environments. For example, you're a pilot and you're flying in the morning, just bare-wristed. You start doing night flying the same day, you need to put a flight suit on. and
Andrew	I don't know what that means, but from context, I think I get it.
Everett	Andrew's panties did just drop just now. I thought you said pennies drop.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	That's it. Yeah. That's a British saying. The penny has dropped when someone reaches, um, reaches, um, uh, their understanding on something. Ah, the penny dropped.
Everett	Oh, I was thinking, I was thinking panties dropped. No, not panties.
Andrew	Not panties. Yeah. There's a den to the floor though.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	As previously stated earlier, those days have gone. One can dream, my mate. One can dream. But yeah, so we approached it in a different way and looking at the design functionality, I look back at what I did when I was in the military. I looked at what my hobbies are. I dive. I'm a diver. And in Britain, the waters are far colder than you would have in a lot of the places, throughout the rest of Europe. We have the Irish Sea, the North Sea, and the English Channel, and it gets cold. So when you dive, you have to dive with a dry suit.
Everett	You guys are like, what, 50th parallel, basically, where you're at, roughly? Pretty much.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, pretty much. It's not, I mean, I'm used to it. It's just the world we live in, you know, for us. But um it's certainly not the tropics it's certainly not even even near the tropics um so if we if we do dive if we are diving 90 of the time we're in a dry bag um now that becomes a little bit more difficult and to start tinkering with a watch um if you've got a tang and a buckle so a cinch strap is a far better option if you look at most diving equipment you've got cinch straps in use across a plethora of ranges. It could be for a diving knife, it'll keep your oxygen on your back in the same way. So I looked at that and also we do an awful lot of operations in the Arctic in the British military. That's a huge portion of our cold weather training is in the Arctic. And when you're in the Arctic, predominantly if you're on a ship, You're nice and toasty inside, but the minute you go outside, you're layering up. And sometimes you're layering up and you go onto the other deck or you go to shore or whatever it is and your watch is on the underside of your clothing. Without having to remove your gloves, taking the watch off, putting it on and then putting your gloves back on, how could you have a strap or have a watch that would allow you to do that gloved? And that's what this system is based on. So we looked at it from a more practical element based on what would be required by the guys on the ground today and we came up with this design. It was a lot of trial and error but we were lucky I've got a lot of friends who are still in the military the Rock painters. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. All sorts of different people doing different things. So during the R&D phase, we sent a load out and we got some feedback. We changed a few bits. And this is what we come up with in the final design. It's it's completely different. Everything is out there. It's a registered design to us. And yeah, we've been we've been making waves with it ever since.
Andrew	So you said it's a registered design to you. So this is this is so revolutionary that you own the design.
Everett	Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you know, uh, it's interesting. I hear you talk about R and D and obviously you've already did this a lot all over the world and all sorts of different and all sorts of different environments. But the evolution of this is not, uh, or, or perhaps was not intended to be something for anybody besides you and a Breitling, right? That's very true. So let's talk about, let's talk about that. So you, you had this, you had a Breitling and what was the watch again? I can't remember.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	I had a Breitling Superocean Heritage 46mm.
Everett	Glorious watch. It's a big watch. That's a big fucking watch.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	It's like a clock on a belt. That's the only way you can describe it. The thing's huge.
Everett	And that thing comes on a bracelet and or rubber, right?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, I had it on the rubber. And for me at that time, that was my first big boy watch. I was really excited. It cost me a fucking fortune to get that watch in. And I didn't want to lose it. And that's basically what it came down to. So the rubber strap was great, don't get me wrong. You're buying a Breitling, you're going to get quality regardless of whether you like the brand or not. But at that level, you know you're buying something from them, it's going to be superb in quality. a Um, so I tried a few different ideas. Uh, I tried a few different options that I could find online. Um, and nothing really made me feel comfortable. Um, or nothing really cut the mustard for the watch.
Everett	Um, when, when was this Darren, just, just for, just in terms of the NATO, you know, cause the NATO strap has been on a, on a rollercoaster for the last, I don't know, four years, maybe three years.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah. So this must've been 2016, 2017, thereabouts. Right before.
Everett	toxic and phenomenal, or maybe right at the same time that those companies were coming out?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	I would imagine so, yeah. I mean, I've served in the British military, the NATO strap was designed for the British military. So it's something that we use. It's prominent, you know, on operations or when you use a watch, the forces here. So I was very aware of it. To me, it wasn't, I wasn't as deep in the watch world as I am now. I didn't know there are other brands that are making different things. So I went the usual route, Amazon, eBay, Google, and I found just a couple of suppliers that did sell me an 8-door strap, just to see what they came in at. They arrived, don't get me wrong, great straps, perfectly functional, but they just didn't feel right for the Breitling. Breitling, it's almost a statement watch, and you want something with substance to hold it. So anyway, I wasn't happy, a few months passed by, How did within the garage was a whole kit bag of mine, just stuff I had surplus from the military. We've both got those.
Andrew	I've got four tack boxes and a couple of double bags.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	There you go. It looks like a NATO stall room when you leave. The amount of stuff you could issue during your time and they only ever ask for a respirator back. It's weird. It's weird.
Everett	Or they ask for like the pair of like the pair of like your left glove, right? Like, what the fuck? I don't have that thing.
Andrew	We just need the spare lenses back. What?
Everett	What do you need those spare lenses for, assholes? OK, yeah. Carry on, Darren.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	But no, I agree with you. It is bizarre. So, yeah, I opened this bag up full of nostalgia and excitement. I've uncovered it after years and years of being here. And within that was a rifle sling. for the SA80, which is the general service assault rifle.
Everett	That's your M4 in the British military. Yeah.
Andrew	Those are cool shit too.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, they're shit though.
Andrew	Oh, I believe it. They're trash. So is the M4, but you know, the lowest bidder, right?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Fair one. Fair one. But yeah, this rifle sling was there. I picked it up. It just so happened to be 24 mil across. The lugs on the Breitling were 24 mil. And I got the work. You know what I mean?
Everett	wait like like sewing machine or or yeah okay yeah i think this is the right button for that nope nope all right well never mind we'll move on i'm so intrigued with what that button was gonna be just work them all there's only eight yeah look oh that's the one no that's really not the one maybe it's this one There it is. Oh, that is the one I was looking for. There we go.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	There we go.
Everett	Okay, so we're just going to need you to start the whole story over again. That's fine.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	I'll just, I'll cut it off. So yeah, sewing machine. So yeah, growing up, my father was at sea. He was at sea for 24 years. Straight?
Andrew	Or like that was his career, was in the Navy?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, that was his career. 24 years.
Andrew	Was he a pirate?
Everett	I don't know.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	He got a terrible case of scurvy. Bowlegged and everything. But yeah, so that was his job. And the old lady, basically, she was a seamstress. So I sort of grown up around sewing machines and I probably had more exposure to them than most. There happened to be one in the house that was my wife's, so I pulled it out, dusted it off and proceeded to absolutely destroy that rifle sling. And probably about 15, 20 more after it.
Everett	So I've heard you talk about this before. What were you, what were you doing to these rifles? I mean, where was the errors coming?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	The errors were coming from a number of places. Number one is getting that fold right, so it doesn't irritate the skin when you sew on it. Major issue. When I first started, I was going probably down a Panerai-esque natal strap route with a big chunky hardware with a tang and a buckle. It just didn't work. It didn't look or feel right. I didn't get what I wanted out of the strap from it. And yeah, I mean, not only that, I hadn't touched a sewing machine in probably 10 years. Right. I'm surprised I kept my fingers, to be honest with you.
Everett	And were you using like an industrial sewing machine or is this a home job?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	This is the type of thing my grandmother would make curtains with. Yeah, okay. Yeah, nothing extravagant, nothing fancy. I think it was from the 60s. And it was all the shit covered in dust, but it was a sewing machine. So I started on that and it probably took, I don't know, two or three months to come to a realization where I thought, well, rather than making what's out there, why not make something that would give me what I want out of the strap? So to be able to operate a glove, to be able to have infinite adjustability, to reduce points of failure, which is a big driver for me. So on most NATO straps, there's a huge amount of security in your watch, because if you lose a pin, that watch is going to flop around on the strap. But most people negate the fact that there's a pin in the buckle. So if you lose that pin, it's far more likely you're going to lose the watch and the strap with it. Because it comes off, right? It's just gone. These things just, they just come off. You know, guys, if you're listening to this, you're that far into watches, this has happened to you in the past where a pin has snapped, something's flopped off. It happens to the best of us. So I wanted to avoid that on the buckle and I wanted to get a solid metal piece going straight through it. And yeah, the cinch idea sort of came to me and I thought, right, well, I've seen this in operation or something similar in operation in the dive world, also in strapping equipment to the side of a fast boat or on board a ship or whatever else it may be. So it's a bit of a cocktail. I took a few different ideas and my exposure and my experience and trialed it and basically come up with that design, which is a double D-ring. Just so happens the top D-ring has a sliding bar, which makes it an adjustable tri-glide.
Everett	Where did you get your first hardware? I mean, so right, you're thinking, how can I do this? You come up with this hardware, which I think is a fantastic idea. And it's sort of one of those things. It's like, well, yeah, that's too obvious, right? That's too easy. But it's the kind of things like, well, I wish I'd have thought of that. So where did you get your first hardware? Did you repurpose something?
Andrew	Did you use the D-links that were already on the rifle straps?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	No. Okay. So the D-links, there are some D-links on the rifle straps already, but they were far too narrow to be able to do anything with. and And these just so happened to be in use widely within that community. A D-ring is a D-ring, that could be used for a number of different things, as could the tri-glide. People will stow rope or fishing rods or whatever it could be with these types of things. And they had a packet there, I picked some up. They were large, naturally, because it was 24mm web and I was using, so it worked. I've refined it a little bit since then. The early ones had a far thicker D-ring than we've currently got, but that's what I could get my hands on at the time.
Everett	Probably more thick than you'd actually need for this application.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, definitely. Far more thicker. But as far as a prototype or a trial piece, it was never intended to be a prototype. It was only ever for me, so I could live with it. It didn't bother me. You know what I mean? There was an element of nostalgia to it because of the nautical side of things. So yeah, I mean, as time has progressed, we've neatened up and improved those buckles.
Everett	Are you still, and I know the answer to this question before I'm going to ask it, but I'm asking it because I think it's a fun question. Are you still hardening the triglides with a torch and vegetable oil at your kitchen sink?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	No. No, I'm not. That was, again, I mean, I'm not a strap maker, I'm not a hardware guy. So everything for me is you learn as you go. And that's what we've been doing for a number of years. And I would say it's, you know, we're at a point now where we're happy, everything is settled, it's been trialed, it's been, you know, it's gone through the mill. But the last two or three years, you know, everything's a moving target. So, some people wanted blackened hardware. Okay, so how do I blacken hardware? There's a blacksmith, it's a dying art now, but I grew up in the mountains of South Wales, and one of my buddies is a blacksmith. He'll shod horses and do all sorts of weird things.
Andrew	A farrier, or whatever.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, a farrier. So I approached him, I said, how do you make steel go black? He was painted. I said, well, that's not an option. What else can I do? He goes, well, if you heat it and dip it in diesel oil for a diesel car, the carbon will get pulled off the oil and it'll basically coat the steel in black. OK, sounds like a brilliant idea. So I get some diesel oil and a torch and my issued Leatherman, which I think is somewhere around here. And yeah, that was it. I just started. I started trying to figure out how to blacken steel. And at the time I was really pleasing myself.
Andrew	And that's some ghetto shit right there. Just hit it. I'm imagining you hitting it with like a soldering butane torch, right? Or like perhaps a weed burner and a propane tank.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	It was a butane. It was like a plumber's butane torch, basically.
Everett	This is on your Instagram, right? I mean, today you can go and find this video.
Andrew	And a can of diesel. Nothing says, I'd like to burn down my house, like setting fire to diesel fuel.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	I have a very tolerant wife.
Everett	But you know, it's something, there's something to be said for getting into a project because You want a product.
Andrew	This is the kind of shit that we do. I'll figure this out.
Everett	And making this thing for yourself and then putting it on Instagram and having people be like, fuck Darren, I need you to give me one of these things.
Andrew	And I'm not allowed to light diesel fuel on fire in my house.
Everett	You would get in trouble. I could probably get away with it. I don't think so. We'll see.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Just just for safety. I don't condone that. So if you are, if you do have a can of fuel and if you need to, please do not do it.
Andrew	No, just feel free, but wear goggles. Wear your PPE. Don't do it, but do it. I love this.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Well, that was the story on on how to how to blacken steel at home.
Everett	Were the results, were the results satisfying?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	At the time, yeah.
Andrew	How about the longevity of the scorching?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, it wasn't ideal. So you had essentially pleating. It was a pleating method. And with any pleating, it's not perfect. It will chip, it will tarnish, it will come off. it's yeah it was it was an evolution if that makes any sense or a progression totally for what i know i do it and and what i do it now certainly not um certainly not but what i need to do it now based on the knowledge that i've built up through doing the silly shit um you know it's it's you learn don't you that that's that's that's how it works but yeah i i don't recommend it um you know if you are looking to do something like that and you do want to blacken something make sure it's like screws you know what i mean that's pink black and you don't want to put silver screws in it it'll work fine for that sure um and you'll get a good wear out of it but yeah don't don't yeah just just just don't do what i did it's a bad idea or you could use gun blue like i think 90 of people might do
Andrew	Or you could buy them already black.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	You could buy them already, but this is the issue. You couldn't buy them black, because no one had done this shit before. Yeah. Okay. And nobody's asked for black ones before. So these were a marine product. That's essentially what they were designed for. And it just wasn't available. So how do I do it? Well, I knew if I painted it, that would chip immediately. I tried looking at electroplating or vacuum plating. I haven't got the facility. I found a few videos on YouTube of guys literally almost set themselves on fire doing that. So you used to put butane to diesel.
Everett	In your defense, I've watched this and it seems like a perfectly normal safe thing to do. But there's this thing, right? There's some inherent risks. But, uh, you know, we we're sort of big on YouTube, like ridiculous YouTube things that we're never going to do. There's a fellow from your neck of the woods called Alec Steele. Do you know who Alec Steele is?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Doesn't ring any bells.
Everett	You know, Alec Steele is a young blacksmith. He's not particularly young anymore, but he was, uh, you do know who he is. So, so Alec Steele, you know, is just this kid. He's like the 16 year old kid. Who's got the best parents in the history of the world. And they were like, yes, son. You want to be the youngest blacksmith in the UK? We got your back. And and, you know, now he's this fabulously wealthy YouTube star. I say fabulously wealthy. I don't know. He does more money on YouTube than we do. He does OK. Which is not just to be clear. We don't make and he moved stateside. Now he's in Montana in the United States. But. You know, with the experience of this stuff, I feel like, gosh, I could just do anything. So I love your I love the the the idea, you know, I can fucking do this. I can do this.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	That's what it was. I mean, listen, there's got to be a fucking way to do this. How do I do it? And we try different options. We try different routes to market or different methods until we get something that we're happy with. And have a guess what? You're going to fall over. You're going to trip up along the way. But the trick is to keep going and keep pushing until you get the final destination. And that was basically what happened. So yeah. It's a weird one, though, because I look back at that myself and I'm like, fuck, that was a terrible idea. But it's not.
Everett	It's such a good idea.
Andrew	That's the process, though, to get to a refined process. You got to do the silly shit on the way. The other when you're in when you're inventing the wheel. You got to go through some bad iterations. You know, we've had it.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	When I was dipping these buckles on that video, you'll see like basically it's a 30 mil shell casing being cut down. Um, so, um, yeah, I was doing it in, in, in basically some, some, some fucking shell casings, um, again, which is probably a terrible idea because I don't know if there's any.
Andrew	Cause fire and powder work really well together. That's good science. Exactly.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	But yeah, anyway.
Everett	Darren, no judgment. You are us. We will do the same shit. No judgment at all. And you've done it in a way that has actually created something that people want, which is something neither one of us has ever done.
Andrew	No, we just do the silly shit. So good on you. And you've got all your fingers, right? Like all ten?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, they're all still there. Just about.
Everett	So in terms of evolution of the product, right? So at some point, you create a strap. People see the strap and they're like, I need one. And so you're like, well, I can make five. I can make five for these five people that want one. And then that turns into something else. The Mark I evolution of this strap was a 24 millimeter made from NATO material. And when I say NATO, I don't mean NATO strap material, I mean actually sort of issued rifle strap. Ballistic nylon. That's right. So at some point, that wasn't satisfying. When did you sort of introduce different sizes, right?
Andrew	Oh my gosh, it still has a tag on it.
Everett	And so you guys can't see this at home because this is a podcast, but he's holding up a Mark I version and it's got the actual NSN label, or you guys don't call them NSN, I don't know.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, it's an NSN label. So it's got the stock number on it. The year it was issued, the contract number, which relates to the factory that made it. And it also says, Sling Small Arms SA80. And that is basically the Mark I of the Mark I, right in front of me there.
Andrew	That is it. That's it, huh?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	That's the baby. That is it. That is the baby. That is in all her glory. Now, I've always been into watches. They're so slim. Yeah, they're not very intrusive, ours. No. And they're extremely supple and soft.
Everett	I really like the material too. It's sort of a pebble material. The nylon's a different texture.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, it's a lot softer than you'd anticipate it to be for a rifle sling. This batch was predominantly made for Afghan and Iraq, or those sort of deployments, given the color of it. We do have another rifle sling that we get issued over here, and that's more OD green, not too dissimilar, in fact, to what you've got in your But yeah, I mean, so this was 24 mil, so it made it really difficult for me to wear it on any other watch, frankly. And when I started, that's basically what it was. I made it for myself. A few guys saw it. They were like, mate, that's brilliant. I love it. I want one. I made it for them. And there are a number of photos, if you go through my tag stuff, of guys squeezing 20 mil lug watches on these, or 22s. It looked awful. But because of what it is, it brought a nostalgia value to it, if that makes any sense.
Everett	It looks cool, right? You squeeze that thing and they curve out. You're right, it doesn't look like the way we expect it to look. But there's something about that aesthetic that is like, well, this is why it's this way, and I can understand that now it's cool.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, exactly. So it brought its own flavor. It really did bring its own flavor. And that was it. My obsession with watches continued and I started to get into more and more different styles and types of watches. So naturally I had the desire to make something else but of a size that would fit in and would look correct aesthetically. So we sort of went down that route and we looked at 20s and 22s um and that's predominantly what what we we make and and do now is 20s and 22s um but yeah it was through my me seeing other people with um smaller lug watches trying to use these um and also my desire of having this on something else um other than the 24mm Breitling or 24mm lug Breitling that sort of pushed us in the direction of saying right okay Perhaps I need to explore this because the design in its own right brought its own merits. It wasn't just a nostalgia aspect of having a rifle sling strap. That's a huge thing. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's superb. Particularly if you've been in the military and you remember getting issued one of these things.
Andrew	Especially keeping that tag on there. That's such a cool. Yeah, that's so cool.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Exactly. Um, so I mean, yeah, I mean, it just progressed. It was organic, it was natural and it just sort of flowed and things went on. Um, and, and yeah, I mean, I started exploring options for twenties and twenty twos and that brought its own plethora of problems, um, in finding webbing, um, finding webbing that I was happy with. But then I thought, well, I'm on this journey. If I'm going to make a watch strap, I'll make the very best watch strap I can. Um, so we sort of went down. a route whereby we get our own stuff made now. We don't use any recycled materials like we started with. Everything is made for us specifically in Manchester, England. So we've got a mill there and we basically say, right, we want this particular weave pattern. So the straps you've got there and the majority of our range is a tubular weave. I'll bore you to death with the intricacies of it now, but that's a bonded tubular weave and it's polyester, not nylon.
Everett	Right. And so I understand that was a thoughtful decision. You know, I think some people probably look at the term polyester with disdain, but the qualities of polyester for this application present some interesting attributes.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yes, and the qualities of polyester in general, in different types of polyester or different qualities of polyester are vast ranging. Now you do have polyester on your Ikea bags, so if you go to Ikea and you pick up some stuff there that you've got that horrible nasty blue shit, that would probably skin you if you put it anywhere near you, and then put the lad within polyester and I'm It was clear to me that if we're going to go into this as a proper business, not just as a hobby side thing I'm doing, if I'm going to make these straps, I need to make them the best way I can. So I decided to settle on polyester. Polyester brings its own attributes, as you shared. Um, abrasion resistance is a huge one. Um, and it drives them. So if you're in a kinetic war fighting environment, or if you're a cop punching a beat, um, and you're taking people down on the daily, um, you want something that's going to stand up to that wear and tear, because my customer base will have far more wear and tear than your average. Um, just due to the nature of their work and what they do. Um, so yeah, polyester was a conscious decision because of the properties it brings.
Everett	You, you know, and I think that actually probably folks in the military are less alarmed by the word polyester than folks who are... And watch nerds. That's right. Or just straight consumers, right? Straight consumers. We've learned just through time that polyester is bad and nylon is less bad. And I think that there are a number of good reasons for that. But in the military, I think In terms of issued equipment, the attributes of polyester, which are the things that you're discussing, right? Hydrophobia and abrasion resistance make a good polyester better in many ways than a good nylon.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah. I mean, our target market and our customer base have never been, and I mean this with respect, but it's never been the watch collector or the enthusiast. That's not who we're making straps for. We do have a number of customers who are watch collectors and enthusiasts, and we love them as much as we do the military guys. But our stuff is designed to be going through more arduous situations. And because of that, polyester, it just brings so many benefits. And those benefits outweigh you know, nylon in so many different ways, um, because of, because of what it brings to the table for the guys who are doing what they do.
Andrew	Love it. Absolutely love it. Cause this is, so I'm, I'm wearing my SSB on the bond and like, like I said earlier, this is, this is the best fitting nylon strap ever worn. And everything you've said about the design has made sense, but the one question that's kind of just been bouncing around my head and I've been really looking forward to ask is when you were designing this, did the G10 watch ever come into your mind as the platform that was going to carry the, or that was going to be carried by this strap?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Not really. Um, not really. I'm quite obsessive in, um, the But in the British military, I don't know what it's like in the States. Yeah, I can see you wearing the Prince Harry there.
Everett	Yep, I've got my Prince Harry on the ZA right now. Yeah.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah. I mean, you're in great company. There's a lot of guys who are doing that.
Everett	I will say, I will say the Prince Harry, the Pulsar, when we say that we mean that Pulsar, G10, the current MOD contract is maybe just a touch light and small for this strap.
Andrew	It's just a couple grams too light. It is so close to terrific.
Everett	It takes it. It's a 20 millimeter lug width, but it sort of disappears on the strap, which is maybe not a bad thing.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	It's, again, it's how you look at it. If you look at it from the eye or from the mindset of looking for an aesthetic, then yeah, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, if you're looking at it for an operational standpoint, whereby that strap and that watch were designed to operate, then it's probably acceptable. and really scratch someone's back in the right way, be that a storeman or the CEO, for him to allow you to get your hands on one of them.
Everett	And when you say the stores, most of our listeners are in the United States. But when you say stores, you don't mean the grocery store or even the department store, you mean the military issue facility.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Military issue facility. Yeah. So, so we would call that stores. Um, that's how it's written in the UK. Um, and there's a, there's a, there's an ancient proverb, um, that goes with stores and that is stores for storing. Um, stores are for storing.
Everett	Yeah, that's right.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Stores are for storing. So trying to get something out of there is, um, is like pulling teeth sometimes.
Andrew	It's like, it's like the money's coming out of their pocket. The behavior's the same, but it's like you, you didn't pay for this. Uncle Sam paid for this. Or the crown paid for this shit. Give me my things.
Everett	I need a new fucking unit patch, asshole. Can you please just give me my unit patch? I need batteries for the shit that you gave me. I am out. I am out of folders. I need more folders.
Andrew	Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good to know that's universal truth.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	It's like asking for someone's firstborn son. That's basically what you're dealing with. It's a fucking pen. Get out. Jesus Christ. You know what I mean? We're all on the same team, lads.
Everett	We call those guys supply. Supply, at least in the army.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	You go to supply. Supply, guys. So yeah, you rock up the stores and you try and get a watch out. Unless you particularly need it or specifically need it for your job or your role, i.e. your air crew, your diver, whatever it may be, the odds of you actually getting that watch is difficult. Interesting.
Everett	So, You've got one. I've got one. I've got a perception, and this may be not true, but I've got a perception that, generally speaking, British or even European military forces are more inclined to wear nice watches than folks in the United States military. So we've spent a lot of time in the US military, and we've seen a lot of Joes and a lot of officers. I have, maybe on one or two occasions total, seen somebody wearing a watch that I didn't think was a turd. And when I say a turd, I'm gonna include Garmin's and Suunto's in there, which are not turds, but they're... And G-Shocks. They're very specific. Yeah, G-Shocks too, but generally not thoughtful orology. Yeah. But more practical, task-based watches. But I get this feeling that the European military has a much bigger orology presence in it, and maybe not British military, but the European military. Do you, would you disagree with that or agree or?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	No, I'd agree with that. And I think it's, I think that is down to in the good old days, uh, guys would get an issue in Europe, Rolexes, Tudors, um, watches of this caliber, Omegas. Um, that was just part, part and parcel of what happened.
Everett	I've never heard of that last brand you said, Darren, what'd you say?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Omega. I know that. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Oh yeah.
Everett	I've heard of it.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	They make watches out of aluminum.
Andrew	Wow, look at you. I don't think they do.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	No, no, they certainly don't. Because I'm bigger. Fair enough. There's a history in that. So, you know, you join your unit or you join your ship or you complete your training in your given profession. There's always a romantic nostalgia. and Digital watches, you know, um, they, they all have their place. Um, and they, they do prove to be very popular with the militaries, but, um, on a tactical element, um, it's very difficult sometimes because the minute you press that button, you have that Batman illumination that shoots up in the sky and, uh, it sort of gives you position away. Um, and aside from that, it's, it's always nice to have something that's, that's ticking, um, on your wrist in case you do have an electronic fault.
Andrew	So we got one more. I'm curious about your relationship with Christopher Ward. Okay. And that partnership, how that came to be, and let's just dive into it.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, certainly. So... You can take a sip.
Andrew	You don't have to... Okay.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Take a sip. Yeah.
Everett	Get drunk and tell us the good stuff.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is where it gets interesting. So I'm from South Wales. I live in Liverpool. About two miles away from me, Christopher Ward's mother lives.
Andrew	Oh, so you're a stepdad.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Quite possible. I was in South Wales at the time. I was a little older than me. But anyway, stranger things have happened at sea. Yeah, in a nutshell, it's a brand that's fairly prevalent where I'm from because of his local connection. I was or had become fairly popular with the military guys and watched forums and Instagram and everything else. And I was invited over to an event in Manchester, which is probably an hour away from me. Liverpool and Manchester are really close. And him and the two other guys, Mike and Pete, were there. They're the three founders or owners of Christopher Ward. And I went. It was basically they were introducing the new Trident range. That's what was going on there. And I took a strap with me. And at the end of the event, I called the guys and said, listen, this is who I am. This is what I do. My credentials are basically on Instagram. I know you guys are on there. Check me out. But I'll leave you with a strap. Within the box with a strap is my phone number. If it's of any interest, let me know. And that's where we went.
Everett	A nice soft sale. I like that.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	It's as simple as that. These guys are busy. They had a room full of customers, loyal customers, who all wanted their time. I had about 20 seconds with them, so I needed to make those 20 seconds count. So it was just, lads, this is who I am. This is what I do. By the way, I happen to be living in the area where you grew up. That immediately got his attention, and I left it with him. And that was that. A few weeks went by, and I had a phone call. And it was, right, can you come down and see us? So yeah, of course I can. Went down. Sat down with Chris in a meeting, this was just before they launched their Her Majesty's Armed Forces range, so I got to see those watches about 12 weeks before general public did. and by then they'd done their digging on me, they'd tried to kill the strap, thankfully they'd failed, and yeah they sort of brought me on to supply them with their military projects. So these guys will have bespoke dials or bespoke watches based on their standard or their core range and let's say you're an F F18 pilot or whatever and you want to have a watch with your insignia or your crest on the dial, you go to these guys, you commission a project, there'd be, I don't know, 40 guys who jump on with it, they'd make the watch and off it would come. what they use me for is right okay so we've got these guys who we're making a watch for what can you do with the strap can you make a strap that's in their colors can you make a strap that would work with their unit or their insignia or whatever it may be and i'll come up with designs based on my stuff yeah exactly but What's that drive look like? It was more a sense of pride than a sense of apprehension or anticipation, if that makes any sense. So I was pleased that, you know, we've got as far as we have. It was weird because the phone call was from Switzerland. They make all their movements and make their watches in Switzerland. That Kumon guy phoned me from Switzerland and basically had a chat with me on the phone. I said, listen, you know, I've been sent your strap. The guys are really impressed with it. I've never seen anything like it. I understand you can do certain colorways or certain designs for the military guys or the police or whoever making bespoke pieces for it. Yes, I can. Brilliant. Well, can you come down and we can have a conversation? Yeah, certainly. So I went down, sat down with the guys, had that meeting, and sort of agreed terms there and then. I mean, it was weird because I didn't walk out of there with a deal. It wasn't like I've just walked out of there with a hundred orders. I walked out of there with a handshake, saying, right, OK, moving forward, what we will do, we'll move you on to become an approved supplier for Christopher Ward, and we will pitch your product whenever we take on these projects. So when the guys want a strap or want something different, we'll put you under their noses, or we'll put you under their noses anyway, but when the appetite is out, we'll use you. So that's what it was. I mean, it was nothing more than a promise at the time.
Everett	It's a lovely story, actually. It's a lot of fun. And I know you also have worked with Bremont and Vertex in a similar fashion, but I think Christopher Ward was sort of that inflection point, perhaps, for you.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's weird when you, when you, when you create something, I mean, there's been numerous times that I've sat there, um, and I'm thinking, what am I doing here? I'm trying to, um, I've tried to reinvent something that's brilliant. Do you know what I mean? Anyway, but then you, you, you get the grips of it and you say, right, no, actually, um, there's a lot of purpose. There's a lot of function. There's a lot of benefits that we bring to the party. And every so often when you get that external validation, it's always nice. If that makes any sense. And we've been through such a and R&D fees up until that point to get that final design, to get it nailed down. All I wanted to do at that time was just show it off to people. Look, look what I've got. You know what I mean? This is amazing. And this is why it's amazing.
Everett	You know, our sort of introduction to you was by way of a fella here who I know you know well, but AJ Barse of the Bellingham podcast, who's our sort of One of our favorite guests ever, and our occasional guest co-host.
Andrew	Yeah, because I've actually never talked to AJ.
Everett	You've never talked to AJ?
Andrew	No, he only shows up when I'm absent. That's right.
Everett	He's so clutch. So AJ has been sort of our guest co-host over the years, but AJ and I have had a number of opportunities to sort of rap. And the first time I ever saw one of your straps, it was AJ's. And he sort of handed it to me. And I was like, what the fuck do I do with this, man? And he was like, well, here's what you do. And I would say for people who have your straps or getting your straps and maybe just looking at your own provided YouTube or video instructions, I would say the biggest thing for me in terms of wear and long-term happiness with the product is keep it attached. Don't take it out of the D rings. I think that that for me made the world of difference. You know, your keeper is on the underside, uh, unlike, uh, unlike with a NATO strap, the keeper goes under the watch, uh, or, or, or just the opposite on top of the watch, which is on the other side of the buckle. Right? So if you are taking an off, you're going to lose the keeper, but he just says, don't. Try to don't try to put it on, on your wrist, put it together. and then slide your wrist through. So I've been wearing this thing on a number of different watches. I've got it on my Pulsar right now, but I've worn it on my... I've worn it on that Swiss Army. I've got a 7750FA18 Swiss Army, which is one of my favorite watches, but it just works so well on that. But wearing it, whatever watch I'm wearing it on, as long as I don't fully unravel it, it's just the easiest thing to put on and off, because I slide my wrist in, I tighten it down, and I'm ready to go. But with that, it's been just a pleasure to wear. And any other sort of tips or tricks that you might give people because, and I'll caveat that statement, right, that question, it's not the same as any other strap you've ever worn.
Andrew	It's totally different. It's the difference between a bracelet and a NATO.
Everett	And so any other tips you'd give the folks? Yeah.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	I mean, personally, a lot of people do what you do, and they'll link it up and hook it up prior to putting it on. I never do that personally. I'll always put it on and buckle and fasten it up, and I'll put the watch face on my thigh and then cinch it down. So I've got that security. I'm not going to lose it. Something I do when I'm putting this on, I'll slide the excess through the keeper once.
Everett	You've got yours on a freedom keeper.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, I've got it on a freedom keeper.
Everett	That's what I'm talking about.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	wearing an american watch so it sort of makes sense and not only that it's i'm like a car mechanic you see a car mechanic his car is always shit because he spends all his time working on everyone else's cars that's basically what i do so the straps i make for uh you know promo use on the website i end up owning i end up wearing Um, so yeah, I needed a freedom keeper in the coyote tan, um, because this is a fairly new color for us. It's only come in in the last few weeks.
Everett	And that's an American, that's an American color coyote tan. We're all sorts of freedom here. Coyote.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Coyote. Well, yeah. The trick for me, I mean, just, just, just to answer that is I'll feed it through, um, through the keeper once. Then I'll slide the keeper back down to the buckles. Yes, sir. Same. Behind itself. and then pinch and pull the keeper back up and that will just slide it right in. You get that perfect snug fit every time. It's just an easier way to stow your excess rather than trying to fold it back in on itself. You use the I don't
Andrew	The logo on your hat. What is the logo on your hat? The entire time I've been looking at it, I'm like, that looks like a four-in-a-hand knot tie, but you cannot be wearing a hat with a tie on it.
Everett	No, no. That's important. Go ahead and tell us about it.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	So there's a brand in the UK called Sin Eaters Guild. And it's more of a community than a brand. So what you've got there is a hanged man that you would have on a tarot card. And this brand is synonymous or mainly sort of worn by military law enforcement. The guy who owns it, a guy called Gaz, really nice guy. He's an ex-army medic, but really in tune with the military community in the UK. And yes, his brand, so Sin Eaters Guild, you'll find them on Instagram. Tom Hardy wears the stuff. Within the UK it's pretty well known, but it's a domestic company and a domestic brand and that is their insignia, which is the hanged man that you see on a tarot card. Yeah, basically a Sin-eater is their definition, is someone who does, who's not afraid to do the horrible shit to keep everyone else safe. There's less ego in it than that would portray in that statement. I haven't done that justice. But it's a community, and that community tends to be law enforcement, military guys. So if you haven't heard of them, check them out on Instagram, Sin Eaters Guild. They do a plethora of different apparel and clothing and stuff.
Andrew	Okay. I knew it could not just be a red tie on your hat, but that's the way it looks from the camera angle that we've got. Yeah.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah. I mean, it's, yeah, it's just, it's just an old tarot card. Yeah. Okay. It's basically this. Um, but yeah, it's, it's one of those brands, unless you know, you don't know. Uh, but when you know, you instantly recognize someone with it. Like if I got, I'm fairly confident if I got pulled over by the cops here, um, I would probably get away with a lesser fine, um, because of that.
Andrew	A lesser fine or a warning?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	probably a warning. that's So Zulu Alpha Straps at Zulu Alpha Straps on Instagram is the very best way to get hold of me, the very best way to find me. In our bio you will see a link to our website www.zulualphastraps.com. If you want to talk to me, if you want to engage with me, Best method of contacts for Instagram. Second best is fire emails. If you need a quick response, find me on IG. You'll see our customers. You'll see who we supply. You'll see where these straps end up. And yeah, reach out, get in touch.
Andrew	And we'll post his phone number in the show notes, too, if you want really immediate contact.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	I'll give you my address. I live in Liverpool. It's an extremely rough area. No one's coming here.
Everett	Other things, Andrew,
Andrew	Go. So, I started a new show. Unbelievable. Right? It's The Toys That Made Us. Oh, yeah. It's so good. It's so good. So, it's available on Netflix. It's a Netflix OG. Yeah.
Everett	And it is... It's part of their permanent catalog, right?
Andrew	Yeah. As far as I know. Yeah. I can't imagine this is gonna go away. It's a Netflix series called The Toys That Made Us. And each episode, they profile a either nostalgic or iconic toy that is almost universally relatable. And if it's not universally relatable, it plays a huge role in like a like a directional shift in toy usage.
Everett	Each of these are sort of a toy zeitgeist.
Andrew	Yeah, there's there's a reason they're in them. So I just watched the Lego one. And that is absolutely if you're going to only watch one, watch the Lego. I haven't seen it. It is fascinating to see to see the the birth, growth and struggles of Lego. Because when you think of Lego, you think of probably one of the most successful toy brands in history. Ubiquitous. They have come to the verge of bankruptcy about five times in the last decade. But they're they've been able to pull it out. whether it be by proper leadership or just the right partnership. It was an absolutely fascinating episode. I just, I did not realize how many times in even my lifetime we've come, like how close we've come to losing Lego.
Everett	Which would be, which would be a tragedy.
Andrew	Yeah. My kid plays with Legos that I had when I was a kid.
Everett	Right. Right. That's the thing about Legos is, so we've, we've, we've talked about Legos. You and I have talked about Lego.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	Lego, I'm sorry. Hey, Rick and Ricky, I'm sorry. It's Lego. I fucked up. Don't roast us. Or do. Don't care. Yeah, whatever. You do you. But we've talked about Lego a number of times. It's such a fascinating... Transcendent. And their quality control and their choice of materials, you know, they have perfected this totally stupid, simple thing, which they didn't really invent. They didn't really invent it. That's fine. Uh, but they perfected this thing. They've taken this thing to such a weird, uh, insane level, you know, where each of these things can all connect.
Andrew	They all 30,000. They call it within the system. I'm air coating. It's their system. I've, I've had Oreos that had in two inverted cookies. The logos were on the inside with the cream. I've never had a faulty Lego. Never once have I had a faulty Lego. Have you? Can you think once of a faulty Lego?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	No, I've never seen one.
Andrew	That you didn't make faulty. No, no. I've fucked up some Legos in my life. I've never seen a faulty Lego. I've had faulty Oreos. Yeah. And I think those things are both as ubiquitous. Oreos QC is... It's lacking. It's on the bus. I had a double stuffed and a regular container. I've had regulars and double stuffed containers. It's a fucking nightmare.
Everett	You know, Oreos QC, that's something we really need to spend some more time. Yeah.
Andrew	So anyway, check out that show on Netflix. I guarantee you there is at least one episode that you are going to wholeheartedly relate to because that toy is your toy. Sure. From your childhood. Sure. Yeah.
Everett	So my other thing is not something you can buy.
Andrew	You can't buy my show.
Everett	Well, I mean.
Andrew	You can't buy Netflix.
Everett	You can consume it. You can pay for Netflix and consume your show. But you can't buy it. So my other thing, so when I'm running, running. I run. On purpose? People know this. I do run on purpose. And I had a long run, a long run planned for today, and we were not going to be supported. An unsupported long run, which is what you might expect. Basically, there wasn't going to be a place for us to refuel or pee. Well, there's lots of places where you can pee anywhere. I can pee anywhere. You know, you just pull it out the bottom. You keep running. You could. Just a little shuffle. But they make these water bottles where you can slide your hand through, and then you have nylon that attaches the water bottle to your hand. The water bottle grips? Water bottle grips. That's right. That's right. So if you've been in sort of trail running or distance running or whatever, you've seen these things, or you've used them, And they're fantastic. They're just really convenient. You know, you can put them on your hand. It, it, what it does is it eliminates the ability for you to have to hold something, right? So your grip is taken out of the equation. It just provides a strap, a strap that goes around the backside of your hand. And so even if you open your hand up, which you may want to do, uh, the water bottle is still there, but for whatever reason, I've broken one of these things and I've lost the other. So I had none. So last night we're, you know, REI is closed.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	Big five doesn't have these things. You know, the stores I would want to buy this thing at are, it's not available to me to buy. So I took duct tape.
Andrew	Yeah, you did.
Everett	Yeah. Did you see it?
Andrew	No, but yeah, you did.
Everett	I'll show it to you. I'll show it to you. I took duct tape and I built myself a water bottle strap and it was every bit as functional and comfortable.
Andrew	The duct tape is,
Everett	super comfortable unusually comfortable for a product of its type that's right it's I mean it's crazy you know so I did I did a couple things I took a leather punch and I and I punched holes in the back so that it could breathe aerated it and I sort of built it out so it would slide on my hand comfortably I made sure there's plenty of space I had to take it off and and sort of adjust it but then I was able to just sort of wrap it around the top and the bottom of the water bottle, give it plenty of slack so I could slip my hand in there, line it up with the way your finger and thumb grips. This is sort of an ergonomic water bottle. But once I got it nailed in, I ran 16 miles with this thing this morning. We've got a business idea here. It's a terrible, it's a terrible business idea. Duct tape water bottle retention devices. This is a terrible business idea, but it was just, it was one of those things where I was like, you know what? if I was less sort of inclined to just try something. So my other thing, I guess, this week is really just duct tape. Try it. Duct tape. I'll post a thing, I'll put it in my story segment because I did 60 miles this morning and I was- 16, not 60.
Andrew	Don't you dare let him lie to you.
Everett	1.6, 1.6 miles. And it was so comfortable. It was like, fuck, man. Duct tape's amazing. It's amazing. I've fixed a lot of things with duct tape. Darren, other things. Go.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	On that, mate, I think two-thirds of the military is held together with duct tape.
Everett	That's right. Yeah, that's exactly right.
Andrew	And the other third is super glue.
Everett	I've seen that statistic. It's exactly right.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Yeah, definitely. For me, a book called Relentless by an author called Dean Stott. Dean is an ex-T1 operator in the UK. He's part of the Special Boat Service, our equivalent of SEAL Team 6. He left the military or got medically discharged from the military, went on to single-handedly evacuate the Canadian embassy and on top of that set two world records cycling the Pan American Highway. In addition to this, he happens to be one of Prince Harry's good friends as well. His book is called Relentless. I've listened to it on Audible this week, and I have punched that baby out as quick as possible. I could not turn it off. It's a phenomenal book. It's really well written. And on Audible, it makes it so much better because he actually reads the story himself. you can pick up the emotion in his voice, you can pick up when he's truly storytelling, he's not just reading words off the page, he takes you on a journey with it. Super interesting guy, a really incredible career inside and outside of the military and just some really interesting topics. So yeah, head over to wherever it is you find your books or you listen to your books and type in Relentless by Dean Stott and yeah, be prepared to be taken on a journey.
Everett	I'm going to hit Audible up. I'm going to hit my buddy Jeff up for a sponsorship on this too because that's a good impromptu product pitch.
Darren from Zulu Alpha	For me guys, I listen to Audible and I listen to books because I've got shit comprehension. I can read words on a page but none of them sink in. So I have to listen to it. That's just the way my brain's wired. And sometimes you listen to books and it's fine. It's not a problem because someone else is reading it. But I love it when the author reads it because you do pick up on that authenticity and that emotion in the voice when they take you through a journey, particularly in a biography. But yeah, Audible, with its weight in toilet paper to me.
Everett	So this fella, it's a memoir. It's his memoir. Yeah. Can you give me the name of the book and the author again?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Relentless by Dean Stott. If you head over to my Instagram, you'll see I posted about it this week. I've got a couple of posts on it on my feed along with my stories. It's just a really, really well-written book. He happens to be a brand ambassador for Vertex as well. He's in with the Virtex crew. But yeah, it's a great book. It really is. I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's something I've listened to this week. And it's got me through working all week in the strapped in on my own. And yeah, it's been great company.
Everett	Fantastic. Love it. Fantastic. Darren, anything else you want to talk about today before we run out of here?
Darren from Zulu Alpha	Just a tip of the hat and gratitude, gentlemen. Thank you very much for having me on. Thank you very much for taking the time to bring me on and share my story with your listeners. I'm grateful for it. Yeah, thank you.
Everett	Thanks for coming, man. We really appreciate it. You've been an awesome guest. Thanks for coming and check out Zulu Alpha. ZuluAlphaStrap.com. Andrew, anything else you got? Nah. Well, thank you guys for joining us for another episode of 4NIN20. Check us out on Instagram at 40 and 20 and or patreon.com slash 40 and 20. Check out Zulu Alpha. Uh, you know, these guys are making something different, uh, something very cool. Uh, some of the most rugged straps they make, and they're different and fun. And you may have a watch that would be perfect for this thing. Zulualphastraps.com or you will have a watch. Zulualphastraps on Instagram. Don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.