Episode 76 - Talking Lume with Wes Kwok of Nodus.

Published on Wed, 08 Apr 2020 20:04:00 -0700

Synopsis

This podcast episode features a discussion about watch lume (luminescence) with guest Wes from Nodus Watches. They cover the science behind different types of lume like Super-LuminNova, tritium, and radioactive materials, as well as the history and evolution of lume technology. Wes provides insight into the considerations brands make when choosing which lume to use based on factors like brightness, longevity, and ease of application. They also discuss the lack of innovation in lume compared to other aspects of watchmaking.

Transcript

Speaker
Host 1 Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is the 1420 podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Andrew Man, I am okay. I am okay. You know, uh, it's just like a Groundhog Day, right? It feels that way. You know, I guess probably a little bit different for you because you're working from out of the house. But for me, it's just like every day is the same, you know, wake up, turn on my computer, put on a clean shirt that maybe or maybe don't change your underwear, maybe, maybe put on a clean shirt, maybe put on a clean shirt. But yeah, you know, it's been it's been really fun, you know, spending more time with the kids, you know, working. It's been awesome to sort of have that engagement with the kids, but it's just totally it's totally different. Uh, totally different. I'm feeling healthy. I'm feeling good and running a lot and enjoying watch content and all the things, but it's so weird, man.
Host 1 See, I have felt a pretty minimal impact from this because my job is unchanged. Like I still have the same amount of time at work, the same hours at work. Like the only difference is that there's just nothing going on in the world around me for the most part.
Andrew Well, so I feel lucky. Being in law enforcement, have you noticed it being, is your job different?
Host 1 It's different in that just people are out less. The other night I saw only cops. I stood in some of our busiest intersections. Like I stood, I parked my car and just stood in the intersection. Because I could do that. Like you can't do that on snow days. Right. Right. So yeah, it's just, it's, it's been a little slower at work, but like my normal day to day, I don't do stuff on the weekends cause I'm tired. Sure. But yeah, it's, it's weird to see the world around me having, having had such an effect. Like, like Sam went back to work this week when, and I'm air quoting back to work cause her maternity leave ended.
Unknown Yeah.
Host 1 But all that meant was that she retreated to the family room with a computer. So I was just solo parenting ish for the day.
Andrew Right. Ish. Ish. Well, you know, I think that's a perfect time because we've talked about how we're doing. Uh, I'd like to talk to our guest, Wes. Wes, how are you?
Wes from Nodus Watches I'm good. Um, as far as how life is different, it's also pretty much the same, just in a different part of the world. Uh, I, I work from home most of the time. Anyways, time zone has been the weirdest part really just because, um, you know, trying to speak with Cullen and, um, and some of our customers in the U S. Um, you know, so emails and all the DM replies are coming in at weird times and then having to wake up at two in the morning for some important things. And so just, just trying to adjust to that time difference has been the biggest issue, but for the most part, a lot of the design stuff and. Um, you know, liaising with our manufacturers that that kind of works out in our favor now, because at least one of us are working around the corner, uh, around the, around the clock.
Andrew Oh yeah.
Wes from Nodus Watches That's always something happening. Yeah.
Andrew You, you guys have full coverage now. Yep. Yep, exactly. Well, the, uh, I think the downside for you is that when you show up to do a impromptu guest appearance with 40 and 20, you're drinking, uh, coffee as opposed to wine.
Host 1 I mean, you can still be drinking wine and beer.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah. What are you drinking? I could be. Yeah. So I'm, I'm actually drinking a roasted matcha. I had my coffee earlier this morning, but, uh, I need a little bit more energy. So just getting a little bit more fuel in the tank.
Andrew I like it. It's, it's midday there now for you, right?
Wes from Nodus Watches Yep. Yep. Uh, it's 11 47 AM.
Andrew No kidding. That's so weird. It's so, I mean, I know that's the thing that happens every day in other places in the world. It's, it's still weird to think about.
Host 1 The world doesn't just shut down when we go to sleep.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah. But, uh, you, you guys are doing well with, um, with the whole working at home thing.
Andrew I am doing just fine. I'm not working quite as efficiently. My office is sort of... You have your battle station, right? So you're able to put your files in one place, and I have my big mechanical keyboard that's really comfortable, and I have my chair, and I have little things to prop files, and I have a giant monitor. So working from home is just... different in a way that I'm not totally comfortable with, but you know, other than that, it's fine. And it's nice, right? My mid day, I took my son out on a, on a three mile run and it was like, this is fun. This is a nice opportunity. So trying to just really enjoy those opportunities. And Wes, you're with family, right?
Wes from Nodus Watches Yes, I am. Um, so I'll give you the short version. Basically I went on a notice tour of Southeast Asia. I went to KL that's in Malaysia and then to Singapore. And Hong Kong is kind of the hub that, you know, you have to go through to fly anywhere in Asia. So I flew from LA to Hong Kong and my return flight was from Hong Kong as well. So the plan was for me to go to Hong Kong after Singapore to settle down for three days, meet up with a few strap manufacturers. But literally the day before I left, my flight got canceled and rescheduled like three times. So I went over to the office, waited in line for an hour. And this has been shit starting to get bad in the US. So everyone is kind of like panicking last minute flight changes and get to the front of line. And then they're like, so it looks like your flight can't land in LAX right now because of, you know, just crazy traffic and it's complete pandemonium at the airport. So I said, all right, let's just cancel it. I won't reschedule anything. And, um, you know, we'll, I'll call you guys in about a week and I'll fly back then. And a week later it got really, really bad and all the LAX got even worse. A lot of the flights were grounded. I think my, uh, so I fly Cathay Pacific and they grounded like 96% of their entire fleet. So ended up coming to Macau where my parents live and I was placed under a home quarantine. Cops would randomly show up and knock on the door just to make sure I'm home and, uh, and take my temperature and all that. So. Um, but that, that was, um, so my quarantine ended a week ago. So I've been out and about in doing things for the most part, because Macau only has like 40 cases and they locked the border. So life here is pretty much at like 60 to 70%, uh, capacity, all the restaurants and all that is still open.
Andrew That's awesome. I'm really jealous of that actually. What's food like in Macau?
Wes from Nodus Watches Oh my God. It's so good. It's, um, So Macau is kind of a strange part of the world. They, um, they were colonized by the Portuguese for the longest time. And, um, they, I think it was in 1999, I want to say when they were turned to China, but a lot of the influence from Portugal remained. So like all the, the signs on the street signs and, um, you know, a lot of the food it's all in Portuguese. Um, yeah, but no one really speak Portuguese. They speak either Mandarin or Cantonese, um, or English here. So it's kind of confusing actually, seeing everything in Portuguese, but then everyone speaks Cantonese and some of them speak Mandarin and it's just very confusing.
Host 1 Do people read Portuguese? Or do they just not know what the signs say?
Wes from Nodus Watches I don't think they read Portuguese. So the sign actually has four languages on it. So they have Portuguese, simplified Chinese, traditional Chinese and English. So every time you see a sign anywhere, it has like four different languages on it. And it's, it's very strange to see that. Like first time I came here, I was really confused. Um, but you know, I, I've grown to appreciate it because there's a lot of history and it's, and it's an interesting history to, to why the things are the way they are here.
Andrew And do your, your parents speak Cantonese? Is that right?
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah, they, they both speak Cantonese and Mandarin. Okay.
Andrew My kids are, uh, are learning Mandarin and, you know, by and large, they come home and they don't want to tell us what they're learning. Uh, you know, like any kids, right? Like, like, like any kid in the entire world. But then every once in a while we'll hear them, you know, we, we, we went, there's a Chinese buffet here in Eugene. That's terrible. And, uh, but it's, you know, it's like every other Chinese buffet in the world that is terribly good. Uh, and we were sitting down at a Chinese buffet and my daughter started talking to these two elderly gals that were speaking Mandarin at the table next to us. And they had like a 30 minute conversation. And these, these ladies were totally delighted, uh, because I think it's such an, it's such a rarity. Uh, but it just blew both Kim and both my wife and I, our minds were just blown to watch this thing unfolding. And even my son got in on the action. It was like, Holy shit. We, I had no clue. Uh, yeah, I I'm re I'm really excited for that to develop. I'm excited to travel to, to China with them and have them be able to talk to people.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah. Yeah, hopefully things calm down soon. I think everyone's getting a little bit antsy being stuck at home and then, you know, all the travel plans for the entire year are pretty much on hold.
Host 1 I mean, that's really lucky though for you. Like it didn't mess with your Southeast Asia tour virtually at all. I mean, barring your coming home.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah, you know what was interesting was that this part of the world was hit a little bit early on, December, January, and they saw a second wave, but I kind of snuck in at that lull between the first explosion and then the second wave that they experienced. Literally like a day or two after I left KL and Singapore, the second wave started hitting and now both those cities are getting hit pretty hard. So I got really lucky. And you know, before this, I was actually in Europe as well. And Europe had zero cases when I was there. And then like within three or four days of leaving, that's when they start getting their first signs of COVID-19. So I've kind of been dodging Corona bullets the entire year so far.
Andrew And it sounds like you're in a good place now.
Host 1 Yeah.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah, yeah, no complaints. Um, I, so last year I skipped out on Christmas and New Year's with my family because of the launch of the duality. So this is me kind of making it up and, um, kind of, so kind of a blessing in disguise that I got to stay a little bit longer cause I don't get to see my parents too much since they live out in this part of the world. And I bet they're loving it. Oh yeah. They're having a great time. I hope so. I think they are.
Andrew Well, on that note, uh, Wes, we, we asked you to come on the show. Cause we're going to talk about, I think a fun topic, but it's a topic that Andrew and I don't know a ton about. And you as a, as a person who's involved heavily in the watch industry and who in fact makes a watch or two, cause you do that, right?
Wes from Nodus Watches I think so. I I'm pretty sure Cullen does most of that. I kind of just dance around in the background and make noise.
Host 1 Someone's got to take the credit though.
Andrew You're the good looking one. We wanted, you know, we thought, gosh, you know, we've done this a few times where we've talked about a topic and we were probably under equipped to have a meaningful conversation. And I think by and large, we've actually done a pretty good job with our research on some of these topics. But sometimes it makes sense to have someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about. And I think in this situation, uh, we couldn't, uh, we couldn't have picked a better host, uh, a better guests guest host as it were. So thanks for joining us. Um, Andrew, do you, do you want to kind of take us away on this? I think that you're sure of the two of us here, the more well educated on this topic.
Host 1 I don't know about that, but I I'm more than willing to step on the landmine as a team. So one of the things that, that I've always been I mean, that fascinates everyone about watches is the loom, right? It's a cool kind of mystifying sort of sorcery thing that we all take for granted on watches. But we only take it for granted until we want to get those night watch shots and get some cool loom shots of watches. And you're like, Oh God, this fucking loom is dying so fast. And it's something that I've always just been curious about. And it's, Something that I've never really taken the time to learn about when we, whenever we talk about a watch, we like, Oh, it's got a super LumiNova. So we know it's going to be good. And something that I've always wondered is, is there grades? Like, is there a super LumiNova that's better than another? Is there a, is there a lume that is better or worse? Or are we looking at exactly the same product called a different thing? And the second part of that is why is everyone using super LumiNova? Every company in the watch industry for the most part is Innovating in some regard. Why is no one innovating with loom? So those are sort of the two questions, the two things. And just, you know, that's an insight into the kind of things that I think about when I'm trying to go to sleep in the morning. Like, why don't people compete with loom? Why is that not something that they care about? You know, everyone wants to innovate with different dials or markers or how they, how they create their their product, but loom is just sort of this, Oh yeah, we'll just slap some super loom, Luminova on it. We'll call it a day. So those are the two questions that frame this out. And we wanted to dive into loom. So we're super lucky to have somebody who knows what they're talking about. And it's, and it seems like it's, it's a pretty cut and dry process. I mean, super Luminova came about in a, in the same way that most watch technologies come about, or at least it originated from a Japanese company. from a dude who saw a need to create a luminescent paint or covering for Japanese military application in World War II. And that's what he did. And then in 1993, it became Luminova and then just kind of grew out of that and got taken over by the Swiss and became Super Luminova. And in that process, we've also seen some radioactive chemicals Elements? Chemicals?
Wes from Nodus Watches So I believe that's probably where it started with the radioactive stuff. And as far as why they chose the materials and chemicals that they chose, I'm not exactly sure why. It might have been just a matter of chance or a mistake that they found that this stuff kind of glows. But, you know, obviously there are a lot of detrimental health effects from using a lot of the old radium or Even tritium, I know people say that the radiation from tritium is just too low to have any real tangible effect, but the truth is it hasn't really been around long enough for us to know the truth.
Host 1 I think that's probably why- I have a lot of tritium right next to my bed.
Wes from Nodus Watches I might be adjusting that. I've seen tritium tubes before and they are really cool. I think the fact that you don't have to charge it and it just has a consistent glow You know, I think there's a time and place for that. I, it doesn't glow quite as bright as, um, as super LumiNova does. But, you know, again, like the, really the, I think the reason why most people use super LumiNova, um, aside from cost and, you know, safety for the workers is the fact that it just works, you know, it's bright. It's it, it lasts a long time. Um, yeah, I think that's, I don't know why there's no R and D in, in regards to loom as much as there is in other aspects of a watch, but there is another company that does make loom. Um, they're actually based out of the U S I believe it's Kansas. Um, but they're called Noctilumina and, um, we've actually partnered with them before on a limited edition run of our first model, the Triest. We did a polar whites, sunburst blue and tropic Browns. And we did all the looming by hand using Noctilumina.
Host 1 And is that, is that hand applied then?
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah. Yeah. So Cullen was sitting in his, um, in his workshop, just looming everything. So supposedly the, the, the health, uh, detrimental health effects are not quite as bad, but the way loom looks when it's not on a watch is, is in two different forms. There's a actual powder. That's the stuff that glows. Um, and it comes in like a little vial. You can actually shine a flashlight at this vial of just, it looks literally like baby powder. And that bottle will start to glow. And then there's also like a gluey substance that you have to mix the two together so that you can actually apply it with like a toothpick looking thing.
Andrew So I actually spent a little time learning about the science of this to prepare for this episode. And I'm going to give a shout out to a good friend of ours, a guy named Jack Forster. He's, you know, he's kind of a watch guy. Just a little. I've actually never met Jack Forster, but He has written a fantastic sort of entry-level Luminescence 101 article that's available on a couple different websites. He's published that through a couple different places, but it's obviously available on Hodinkee. But it really sort of gets into the nitty-gritty and the science. So Lume, when we talk about Lume, really what we're talking about in the watch application is a subset of what's called photoluminescence. Photoluminescence is any sort of any sort of light that emits from a substance. So light is actually a ray, a wave that comes off a material. In the realm of photoluminescence, you have fluorescence and phosphorescence. I think that's right. Fluorescent is, you know, we can see fluorescent stuff, right? You can see a fluorescent, like a black light painting is fluorescent. But all photoluminescence operates on the same principle, which is that there's an electron, an electron that's circling an atom of a certain substance. And that electron, when you add a light particle to it, becomes charged. Excited. Excited. Yeah, it becomes excited. Until such time as it shoots off those extra, that extra light charge that, that, uh, I think phosphor or, um, uh, so, so it's, it's actually adding a thing, a photon or something to an atom charging that electron now, fluorescent, fluorescent materials, give that, give that light, that light wave off sort of all at once. So that's why if you take a black light in a dark room and stick it on something fluorescent, it's bright. until you take the light away, and then all the light's gone. It takes it in, and it gives it off quickly. Loom, the stuff in Loom, generally gives that off more slowly. It holds on to that. It holds on to that. The transaction takes more time. So it takes in more of the light, hangs on to it, and lets it off slowly.
Host 1 That's what- Yeah, it's almost like a spring. It releases that energy at a fairly uniform rate. That's right. Rather than just an explosion of that energy releasing back out. It remains excited and just gently unwinds itself.
Andrew It's got a maximum sort of transactional capacity, right? It's like an ATM. You can only get out $400 a day. I lowered my limit to $200. Oh, that's good. That's smart. So things like radium. they don't need to be charged with an external source. In fact, that energy, that light wave, is created by radiation. So it's the same process, but instead of taking an external light source and then kicking it back out, it's creating its own light by way of radiation. Literally, radioactive decay is creating that light source. So radium did that fairly effectively, although it's got a half-life that's a limitation.
Host 1 It's like 1,200 years. There's an interesting article to look at the radium girls. And it was these watch floor manufacturing women who were hand painting the radium markers and luminescence on watches. And in order to get those really precise points, they were licking their paintbrushes. that were also covered in radium, and a lot of them got what they called radium jaw, which isn't shocking because they were eating radioactive material, but... That doesn't sound safe. It turned out it wasn't, big shock there. But oddly enough, the last remaining radium girl died at 107, so they might have been on to something in the way of longevity.
Andrew That sounds like some logical fallacy involved in your
Wes from Nodus Watches You're in your review. But yeah, you, you basically hit the nail on the head. I think when it comes to radium, what's really happening is that in this loom formula that they're applying onto dials, part of that formula are these additives that have emission spectra that are in the absorption range of the loom powder. Right. So all of that radiation, so radiation is a form of light, but it's not visible to the human eye. Whereas for superluminova, um, you know, in, in the natural world there, there's a huge range of, uh, of light waves. And that's why you can walk by a overcast, uh, walk by a window on an overcast day, or you can be in direct sunlight, but the amount of charging that happens on that loom is pretty much the same. Um, because it just, it kind of covers the entire spectrum of, of, um, of light waves. So that that's kind of why. Radium, the way you should probably think about is that radium or tritium or any of the radioactive loom tubes or formulas, it's basically subject to a consistent and even charge, even though you can't really see it with the naked eye.
Andrew Right. Right. That's right. And they add material to it too as well to increase because radiation, radium in and of itself isn't all that bright, but they can, they added substance to it. They doped it with additional sort of compounds. to give that a better... Yeah, to kind of enhance the chargeability of the loom.
Wes from Nodus Watches So it can kind of charge and last a little bit longer and amplify the effect.
Andrew So at some point in the late 30s, early 40s, people started to realize, you know, hey, this is not good. We're actually doing a bad thing here. And they started looking. So I knew about tritium. I knew tritium came out of that test, that hunt for a new material. I also learned about a material called promethium. Prometheum 147. Either of you guys ever heard of this? It sounds like a Marvel villain to me.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah. I haven't seen it in the flesh before, but yeah, I've heard of it.
Andrew Well, so this is a material, I think that Seiko was using Prometheum, uh, particularly Seiko was using it and it had a very short shelf life or a half life. So I think a two and a half year half life shelf life, a two and a a two and a half year half life as opposed to tritium, which has like a 12 and a half year half life. So I think that there are still promethium loomed dials that exist today, but they're just not going to, they're not going to have any, uh, any light effect at all, but they, they emitted both promethium and tritium emit beta rays or beta particles. Excuse me. as opposed to radium, which emits an alpha particle. The alpha particle is significantly more dangerous than a beta particle. I don't know the science of it. We will link to Jack Forster's article. It's probably a good stepping off point if you want to learn more about this. But the theory is there was a less intense radioactive material coming off of it, which was generally seen as safer. and I think Wes makes a good point, we don't really know, right? We don't have all the details, but safe, suffice to say, it's probably safer. And then Super LumiNova comes out and it's like, we can do all the same stuff as Tritium. We can do it probably a little bit more effectively. We can do it more safely. And we can make it last longer. So, so basically we take all the good things and we have none of the bad things. And here you go, watch industry, you're forever and ever changed. 1998. Amen. Yeah.
Wes from Nodus Watches Well, I think one of the things that the Japanese have really embraced is the whole idea of using weather, weather technology to kind of move sideways and, uh, you know, not, not just implement it into a product, but actually kind of innovate on the way it's implemented. So that's kind of the downside of things like radium and tritium, where you have this formula and this compound and it does what it does. And there's really nothing you can do to change how it behaves and make it last longer. But, uh, and this goes back to what we were talking about in innovation for loom, because there's certain things you can do with super luminova to make it do behave in different ways. Right. So a lot of it comes down to the formulation, um, you know, coding, layering, Uh, something that people don't really talk about that much is actually the backing of, uh, whatever it is you're applying the loom to. So if, if it's reflective, if, if, if the backing is reflective, it kind of, um, amplifies the light that charges the, the tiny little particles in the loom and, um, you know, it can make it last longer. So, so there are many different things you can do. So then are you guys using like small details?
Host 1 Sorry, go ahead. Are you, are you guys using then like mirrored? plating than for what you're applying your loom to?
Wes from Nodus Watches Well, so any kind of applied loom, right? So with the raised indices, those are naturally a lot more reflective than if you're just printing it on a dial. So even if it is the same material, dials can have paint on it and the layering is a little bit harder. So there are different things you can do with printing processes and changing the formula itself. Um, but as far as the backing goes, if you're applying it into applied indices, then it tends to be the brightest you can possibly get with, uh, with loom.
Andrew So, so the, so super Luminova, the, uh, I'll, I'll drop one more, one more bit of science because I think it touches on exactly the point you're making Wes. And then, and then I want to turn this over to you for some, with some more specific questions. But, uh, whereas, whereas radium used, uh, zinc, I think it was a, um, Zinc sulfide, they used that to sort of, that was the material added primarily to radium to sort of increase its oomph. It's oomph. Um, that's the scientific word for it. The phosphor was a zinc sulfide. In, in superluminova, they're using something called strontium aluminate. I don't know what that is, but that is the phosphor. That is the material that is, that is being excited by these light particles. And so when, when they, the reason, and it's all the same, no matter what kind of super luminova you have, or if you have chroma bright or, or whatever, whatever loom you're talking about this company in Kansas, they're probably using a very similar phosphor, phosphor, which is the strontium aluminate, but they're, but they're combining it with additional sort of doping agents, right. Uh, to give it, you know, to give it that BGW nine color or to give it, to give it, more a white versus a green versus a blue. They're, they're adding, they're doping that strontium aluminate, uh, with products. So that means you can take this one product and do all sorts of different things about it. And Andrew, you kind of touched on, um, why isn't there more competition in this game? Uh, I suspect there's a couple of reasons for it, but one of those is patents, right? Since 1993, I think, or 98. 93 or 98, one of the two, both Tritec and or really Luminova, the company out of Japan, Luminova, who combined with Tritec in Switzerland to make super Luminova. Luminova has held these patents and licensed and license these patents out, which is a major limiting effect. As we know, when you have something that's such a dynamo like this, it's going to really limit the effect. So With that said, there's a number of companies that are coming out and competing. And certainly there are companies in China and in Asia that have their own products that do very similar things. And the legality of that, I'm not familiar with or comfortable enough to talk about it, but there are a number of companies that are doing this. But by and large, it's this one company using different compounds. Wes, I'd like to talk to you a little bit about when you guys came out, the Trieste was your first watch, right? Yeah. When you came out with the Trieste and you get to that point where you've got to talk about lume, what was your conversation? I assume it was more than just, we want the indices to be luminescent. How did you get to the decisions you made with that first watch?
Wes from Nodus Watches Well, a lot of it is looking at market trends and kind of listening to what the market is saying, right? Like right now, I don't know if you guys noticed, but I think right now there's a bit of a boom in BGW9 popularity, probably because of the cool blue color that it emits. But more than that also, it doesn't appear green in daylight, in normal daylight. And that kind of irks a lot of people because it can kind of interrupt the flow of a design depending on the color of the dial and for whatever reason. But for us, we picked BGW-9 because longevity was what we were looking for with that watch in particular. We wanted it to glow bright enough to see at night, but we wanted it to last long. That was really the main idea.
Host 1 So with that, so BGW-9, you got the color, you got the long lasting. Why the color you chose? Because you got You got a lot of options in the way of Super LumiNova. Was it just the traditional color?
Wes from Nodus Watches Well, there are different grades of Super LumiNova, right? So, C3 is kind of the most popular one. It's the brightest. But even in C3, there are many different grades. So, there's Grade A. That's the one that pretty much every watch brand uses. And then there's X1. So, X1, it's been used by NTH. It's on our Avalons. It's been used by... Halios on his C4 as well as his puck. So X1 is about twice the price, a little bit less than twice the price of using grade A loom, but you know, it's super duper bright. The downside of it being usually the brighter it is, the shorter it lasts though. So that's kind of the downside. So it really comes down to function, right? If you're using it for an actual dive watch, that's supposed to be, you know, going underwater and being used at night for, a look. The way they achieve that is basically by taking C3 and they just put pigment, whatever color pigment it is, and that kind of degrades the phosphorescent effect of whatever loom they're using.
Andrew They add the pigment and it pulls from the ability to emit light.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah, well it's because the... More pigment you put in, the density of the phosphorescent material gets impacted by how much pigment you put in.
Andrew And so a company like Seiko's, I mean, I think Seiko is really well known for its lume. I don't think that's going to surprise anybody listening. People say, oh, the Seiko's just really glow. But, you know, Seiko is using its proprietary quote-unquote Lumibrite, which is almost certainly a 100% licensed Luminova product, product created by the company called Luminova, which they've taken on license. The things that Seiko, I mean, Seiko doesn't have any more or less ability to make their watches glow, but the way I understand it is that they apply it differently. They apply it differently. They use different methods of application to really increase the capacity for glow. What kind of things can a company do to get those sort of Seiko, Lume, results if they wanted to, besides just grade.
Host 1 Because Seiko glows across the room in the daytime.
Wes from Nodus Watches It really depends on the application of the loom. Let's talk about printed dials, for instance. If you're printing a dial, usually what you want to do with the loom is you want to print multi-layered loom. That requires printing it, letting it dry, printing it, letting it dry. And then that kind of has a compounding effect on the brightness and the longevity of the lume. So I'm trying to think of an example of like 3D printed lume. Actually, a good example would be the Sector Series on, well, and either the Diver or the Field Watch. But if you look closely, especially under a loop or some kind of macro lens, you can see that the lume paint is lifted up a little bit from the dial. And that is literally all just loom. So it kind of creates a 3D effect, but it's really just loom to help the longevity, make it last a little longer and glow a little bit brighter.
Host 1 When you said 3D printed, could you circle back to that for real quick? When you say 3D printed, are you meaning printed on a 3D printer or are you meaning just multiple applications to give a 3D appearance against that dial?
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah. So it's, it's not a 3d printer. So those are called loom blocks. And, um, there are some companies that do that as well, where they infuse some kind of PLA plastic with some kind of glowing material. And, um, and then they 3d print that, or they have like a plastic mold and then they use, there are different ways you can do it when you're talking about actual 3d application, but for our stuff and for the most part, any printed dial, it's multiple layers of loom being printed one on top of the other, once it dries.
Host 1 Okay. It confused me.
Andrew Old school 3D printing.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah, old school 3D printing. It's a very similar effect. I don't know if you guys have ever used a 3D printer before, but it's essentially doing the exact same thing where it prints layers from the bottom to the top in plastic or metal or whatever it is you're looking to print. Um, and for loom, it's pretty much the same thing. You're printing from the bottom to the top, but instead of using plastic, you're using a liquid, a loom liquid.
Andrew You know, I've never 3d printed, but there's this guy who makes videos on YouTube. I don't know where he is. He's, he's probably in Japan, um, based on, based on the videos, but he uses a 3d print printing pen and goes to like random walls in his neighborhood and builds like bridges across cracks in the concrete, and they're really phenomenal videos, apropos of nothing, which is par for the course forever. But if I think about it, maybe I'll link to his videos in the show notes. They're pretty fun.
Wes from Nodus Watches So... Yeah, well, the concept is pretty much the same, just printing from a bottom layer to the top to make it 3D. Okay. Sure. Um, so there, there are definitely other applications, right? So like a sandwich dial, it's pretty much the exact same concept, but because of that extra layer, you're able to fill it with loom at the very top. So usually what happens is you have a bottom plate that has loom printed in a, in a very similar way. Then you put the second one, the second layer on top, and you can actually fill each one of those indices with more loom. Right? Because there's a little bit more space and a little bit more leeway that you can, um, can just fill it up. Very similar to how you would do a applied, uh, index. So you apply it really is just you.
Andrew Sorry. Oh, I was going to say you can give yourself a bathtub, right?
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah, pretty much a little loom bathtub. Where's your diminishing return with applied? Uh, that's good. Or is there?
Host 1 I mean, is it purely aesthetically? When your application of loom density or your girth thickness of that loom pile, when it starts to become offensive to look at, that is your diminishing return.
Andrew You said girth.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yes, I think it really depends on the taste of whoever is wearing the watch because some people want it as bright as possible no matter what. Like I've tried to sleep with the Avalon on my nightstand and it's, I actually see a glow through my eyelids a little bit, so I have to turn it over. Um, so yeah, I think it really depends on, on people. Like if they want it bright, you know, I mean, there, there's some divers out there that wear the Avalon and they're like, yeah, this is, you know, this is exactly what we're looking for. And then they try to dive with the retrospect or, or the sector. And we use the exact same, um, application or factory for most of our, uh, most of our dials. So. We know that the quality is consistent across the board, but then the way they actually use the different watches with the different ways of applying the lume. Everyone has their own preferences, pretty much what I'm trying to say.
Host 1 Yes. It seems to me like pro divers would prefer Tritium over Applied, just because of the long-lasting effects of Tritium.
Wes from Nodus Watches It's not quite bright enough. I think photos are- Well, that's one of the things that I wanted to talk about, how photos can look different on Instagram and on websites and all that stuff, but it doesn't really convey an accurate depiction of how the loom looks in real life because you can, obviously you can do things with like photo editing and all that, but then also the sensitivity of the sensors and cameras are all different. Um, the longevity, how, how long you charge the loom is also different and how long you wait before you take a photo. So it's really hard to capture a loom shot that's fully representative of how it looks and behaves in real life. But for the most part, when I talk to divers, they want something that's brighter, that doesn't last as long, because it's not like they're underwater for that long anyways. Sure, right. And tritium tends to fade a little bit once it gets darker. It's just, I mean, it's a consistent brightness, but it's not a super bright brightness.
Unknown Okay.
Host 1 I don't have any tritium loom on any watches. My only experience with tritium loom is in firearms optics, and I've done a fair bit of night shooting and have never had any complaints with the brightness of those. And I know it's a lot bigger tube than it's gonna be on any watch, but... Sure. That's just my thinking in the way of tritium. I've never not been able to grab night sights, regardless of the amount of darkness.
Wes from Nodus Watches It would definitely be worth getting a watch with tritium tubes just to compare it side by side because I think a lot of the photos online are edited in a way that makes it look brighter than it really is in person. So it would definitely be worth having it side by side with a solid lume watch, you know, just to really get an idea of how it looks different because it doesn't really look like lume in my opinion. Like you can tell when it's a tritium tube just by the way it glows.
Host 1 So the glow rather than illumination kind of difference?
Wes from Nodus Watches It's hard to describe it. I think the best way I can describe it is pretty much like it looks like there's some kind of external power attached to each tritium tube. Like it looks like it's a light source instead of glowing in the dark.
Andrew You know, and I think that the biggest advantage to tritium over something like superluminova is the self-produced energy, right? Because it's creating its own energy. You don't need to charge it externally. But for most of us, we have that ability to charge our superluminova before bed or whatever. But if you forget, right? Or if it's in the bookshelf, uh, in the dark closet or whatever, right? That tritium is going to continue to glow at the same rate because it's not reliant on that external energy source. So that is an advantage. Um, but, but I don't know, you know, by and large, I think it's like you said, if, if you're doing a dive, it's, it's just, it maybe adds a thing you need to do before you go down. But I would think that the additional brightness you get out of superluminova could be advantageous.
Wes from Nodus Watches So. Right. Well, then the downside of that is that it does decay, right? So after like 10 years or something, it ends up being too dark for it to be really functional. So, and then getting it, getting something re-loomed is a lot easier than getting something re-tubed, uh, for lack of a better term.
Andrew Right. Right. You buy, you know, you buy a $4,000 ball watch with tritium tubes. Uh, that thing's eventually 12 and a half year half-life, right? So, uh, it's going to be half as bright. in 12 and a half years, and then half again is bright in another 12 and a half. I mean, eventually it's just not gonna be effective at providing luminance. Yeah, exactly. Well, so there's one other method of illumination that I think deserves our mention because it's a good one. Andrew and I have both talked about it quite a bit, but Indiglo. Indiglo, you know, that's sort of, I think the elephant in the room when we talk about loom, because it's this extremely effective, obviously limited to quartz watches, because you need a battery. You need a battery to create the 100 to 200 volts of energy necessary to light up Indiglo. But Indiglo does what it does with almost, with next to no degradation over time. with 100% flick of, you know, literally press of a button capacity anytime you want it. You wake up at four in the morning, you want to know what time it is. There's probably no more effective method in that scenario of being able to see your watch, short of a light by the bed stand.
Host 1 Which your wife would be really, really unhappy with. Right.
Andrew That's right. But Indiglo does, it's the same scientific principle, right? It is a phosphorescent material that instead of getting its additional excitement from an external source or from radiation, it's not radiation. It is, that's right, but it's not an external light source. It's actually charged by the onboard battery. Which applies, you know, and these watch batteries are like one and a half volts, right? We're not talking about a 150 volt battery. It's a one and a half volt battery. That's transformed. 10, you know, a hundred to one to create enough, 150 volts to power this phosphor coated piece of glass and lights up, but using the same principle, uh, you know, so if we're going to have a loom conversation, we should talk about Indiglo. Andrew, do you have thoughts?
Host 1 I love Indiglo because I one of the things because I mean, frankly, I love digital watches. I mean, in my world, I like watches that I can destroy and not feel bad about and watches that are going to survive all the horrible things that I do to them. It's also nice to not have something constantly glowing off my wrist. And it's nice to know that no matter what, when I pinch my watch, I'm going to get a full view of everything on the dial. Because one of the things that I think is limiting about lume on watches is that you're only going to get where the lume is applied. I've never seen a lume date wheel. And for someone like me, it's important to know what day it is, because I'm forgetful. I'm stupid. I need to see the date every time I look at my watch.
Andrew I can confirm that you're stupid.
Host 1 Yes. No, no, no. We know that, man. And so can, like everyone on this call can confirm that I'm a dummy, which means that when I look at my watch, I don't just look at my watch for the date. I look at my watch two times. I look at my watch to know the time of day. And then I look at my watch for the date. It's two transactions for me to get a time date group. I love Indiglo. Love it. And I know that it's not something that can ever happen for any of my analog watches.
Andrew But well, Timex does Indiglo in analog watches. They have the ability. You just need a quartz battery. You need that quartz battery.
Host 1 That'd be pretty cool to push the crown.
Andrew My EasyReader has Indiglo.
Host 1 But what I'm saying is it would be a cool functionality to have a mechanical watch that's the battery in its sole function is to power your Indiglo.
Andrew Yeah. All right, next watch, Wes.
Unknown We've set the gauntlet for you.
Wes from Nodus Watches As you guys were speaking, I was literally thinking, where in the world could we fit a little battery?
Host 1 Because that becomes a dress watch that also has loom, just immediately. Because that's something that bums me out when I can't view the time when I'm wearing a dress watch.
Andrew We run into the same issues with innovation on Indiglo that we do with Loom, right? You've got patents. Timex has a patent for Indiglo. I know that Casio has their EL backlight, which is very similar. I'm sure there are differences. It's not as effective. It's not as effective, you don't think?
Host 1 I don't think so. The EL backlight hammers light across the dial.
Andrew My EL backlit g-shock the whole thing lights up. It's not like the the lights from the sides It's actually it's actually a backlit So I know that there's competing technology, but there's there's probably a couple things happening There's probably a bunch of companies say we don't care that much to do this really Casio and Timex are the companies making Making digital watches, right? Um, so, so there's probably a lack of need. The companies that have it need, the companies that need it have it. Um, but, but also those patents are, are going to be disruptive. So, so who knows, you know, I think probably licensing from Timex, licensing Indiglo from Timex or backlight. Yeah. I can't imagine that for a small company, that's going to be feasible.
Host 1 So, so we're getting a little long. I just have one, one more question I want to ask before we move on. into our other things is, Wes, you guys have been really innovative. I'm wondering why not Loom? Like, why did you guys accept the status quo in the Loom world? And I think it's probably reasonable for you to speak for the majority of small brands in this question, because I think you guys have all faced the same issue. Why not innovate? in the loom world? Is it just that the product that's available is so good, so affordable, so reliable? Or is it that it's just not, it's worth innovating in other realms before you innovate in loom because loom is so easily overlooked.
Wes from Nodus Watches So there are a few layers to that question. Um, I, I think we, so we have to break it down a little bit in, in regards to the loom itself and the actual material, uh, and the science of how it works and formulation and all that. R&D would take a long time and the cost would be really high to not only get the raw materials, but you have to get the ovens, the testing equipment, lab space, fume hoods, just things to make it safe to handle this kind of stuff. Like I was saying earlier with the Triest limited edition that Cullen was looming, he did it all by hand, but he would call me at the end of the day and just say, dude, I have a crazy headache. I'm probably going to die tomorrow from all of this loom. And this isn't even creating the lube itself. This is, yeah, it was literally just from mixing it with, um, with the actual glue and, um, you know, the, the fumes and all that stuff. We didn't have a proper fume hood. We literally just put a fan on a window and open the window. So that probably is not the greatest idea. Um, but, um, so, so yeah, I think the cost is very prohibitive in terms of, um, innovation. I mentioned earlier a company called Noctilumina, and they do make their own lume. It is really good. The only problem is that the actual size of the particles and the crystals are a little bit bigger than superluminova, and because of that, it doesn't last quite as long as superluminova. So the absorption rate of the actual light and all that. I'm sure there's a lot more science that someone smarter than I am can talk about, For the most part, as far as how it functions, it was brighter, but didn't last as long.
Andrew Do you know if they're using strontium aluminate? Are they using the same sort of base phosphate?
Wes from Nodus Watches They don't make that information public, but I spoke to a couple of my chemical engineering friends and they said, yeah, chances are they're using the same thing because it behaves in a very similar way. And you know, As far as patents go, I'm pretty sure that the superluminova patent has expired. So now it's really just a matter of experimentation on getting the right formulation down of the materials that you know are in this stuff anyways. But I do believe that there are ways to innovate in terms of application. So I know NTH has been doing some custom formulation by mixing different looms. He also loomed his crown, which I guess is kind of an innovative thing to do. I don't think it's necessarily super functional, especially for a dive watch, but it is, it's kind of cool. It looks nice.
Andrew It's cool.
Wes from Nodus Watches It's cool. That's what watches are. Yeah, exactly. Then there are different things you can do on top of loom to make it last a little bit longer in terms of wear and tear. So one thing that I noticed with ceramic bezels in particular is that the loom tends to fall out because loom isn't necessarily what you'd consider a hardy material. If you expose it to the elements, literally within a year, it'll start to age or fall out and crack and, um, you know, all, all types of shit that you don't want to happen, especially if it's a functional watch, but there are different types of enamels you can put over loom. Um, so an example of that would be the Avalon. And I know you guys took a, took a, took a look at an Avalon a while back, but if you look very closely, there's a bit of a glossy layer over the top, and that's kind of, uh, just a protective layer to make sure that the loom stays where it is for a long time. And also we don't want it to age and turn yellow like a lot of exposed loom tends to do. And then you mentioned earlier about a date wheel that's loomed. So I believe, I might be wrong, but I believe Visitor has done that before. They would be the ones, right? Yeah. Yeah. And Phil's a great guy, super talented designer. And he would be the one that does something crazy innovative like that. But what we found, because we have tried it before, but what we found was that in order for the loom to be functional, right, so that is bright enough and long lasting enough, we need it to be applied thick enough. And the clearance on the underside of the dial isn't enough for us to print it thick enough where it glows, right? So if we do print it thick enough, it ends up rubbing against that underside of the dial and it ends up cracking and falling off, sort of like a exposed loom on a bezel. And if we don't apply it thick enough, it just doesn't glow. You really have to blast it with a strong UV light to charge it up. So now what it comes down to is really just the formula itself. And if we can nail a formula that's bright enough at lighter applications, then that's probably what we would do to loom it.
Host 1 So it sounds like you just need to lock Cullen in a basement and give him a bunch of loom.
Wes from Nodus Watches Well, it's a good time for him to be doing that now because of how quiet everything is. So that's, uh, so he's the loom goblin right now.
Andrew Well, you know, we obviously haven't exhausted the issue, but, um, I think that's probably a decent enough time to leave the loom for today. Uh, obviously if you have questions, go feel free to feel free to reach out and connect with us on the, on the gram and, and send those out. And, uh, you know, probably a better source would be, would be someone like Wes from Notice, uh, for that information. But we're, we're happy. We're happy to field those questions to the extent we can. Uh, other things, Andrew, go.
Host 1 I got one. Good. I bought a hot sauce that I've, uh, that I've had several times. I think we've both had, um, at least I'm pretty sure you've had it. It's El Yucateco Extra Hot. I've had that. Triple X Hot. I've had that. I saw it at the grocery store the other day. I burped because I've been drinking beer. So I saw it at the grocery store when I was there to buy dog food. Obviously I went through the hot sauce section and I saw El Yucateco and I was like, duh, I'm going to get this. El Yucateco is my other thing, but here's what I did with my El Yucateco last night. I poured it in a bowl, probably two tablespoons of it in a bowl. Sam was so generous and got just regular Flamin' Hot Cheetos the other day.
Andrew Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.
Host 1 So I was dunking my Flamin' Hots in the El Yucateco. Oh my God. It was amazing. I've never dunked hot chips in just hot sauce before. I don't know why I haven't. And I think I will forever and always be doing this. I'm going to have El Yucateco like on draft at my house just for chip application. It is so good.
Andrew Have you ever had those, have you ever had those, those fried, uh, wheels? They're fried, they're fried like a dough wheels. I think that they have like a pork fat base that they sell them at like the Mexican food trucks. They're, it's a bag.
Host 1 Do they look like tomatoes?
Andrew They're called duros. Yes. Yeah. Yes, they look like tomatoes. And when you order them, they will coat them in hot sauce and lime and shake them up for you. Have you ever had that?
Host 1 I've not had that, but I had, uh, cool ranch Doritos with Cholula and shaken up like that.
Andrew Exactly the same.
Host 1 Yeah, exactly the same. And it's magical. So as a, as an other thing is a hot sauce that some of you may or may not be familiar with. It has made its appearances on hot ones. It is a habanero based hot sauce out of a company from Mexico. And what I could find on it was that it's like in the neighborhood of 10 to 50,000 Scoville, which isn't a very precise measurement, but it's so flavorful. It has all the sweetness and brightness that you want out of habanero, but it's got that nice like punch heat out of a habanero. It's killer. It was like $3.
Wes from Nodus Watches Have you guys tried any of the other Like the higher end of the spectrum on the hot ones. So like Mad Dog or even the hot ones sauce itself.
Host 1 I haven't had the, the what's it called? Like Blair's Megadeth or whatever that one is. I had Da Bomb. Da Bomb wasn't a, so a couple of things about Da Bomb. Number one, it wasn't that spicy. It was hot, but it wasn't like debilitating. Like I've, how many, I've seen so many people try a wing coated in Da Bomb and just go into paralysis.
Unknown Mm-hmm.
Host 1 I coated a wing pretty heavily in Da Bomb. I mean, I had a regular-ass chicken wing, and I put about a tablespoon, maybe some change, of Da Bomb onto my wing. And it kind of reminded me of Chipotle. It was just super, super smoky, and then super, super vinegar. It wasn't good. Yeah, it's not good. Nor was it sweat-inducing. I was really disappointed, especially for how many people I've seen brought to their knees by Da Bomb.
Andrew So I've had the Blair's Megadeth and I've also had the 357... I'm blanking on the... Mad Dog, isn't that what it's called? Yeah, the 357 Mad Dog. And those are both very, very spicy. I also keep a bottle in the fridge from Pucker Butt.
Host 1 It's the... That's the truth right there.
Andrew It's about two times as spicy as either one of those Blair's Megadeth or the other. And, uh, you, you know, I do enjoy it. I re I actually really enjoy it, but I have recently on more than one occasion, wrecked myself for a number of hours, uh, in consuming it. So I've got to be re I mean, at some point you think, is this worth it? I enjoy the flavor. I enjoy the eating process. Um, we've talked about this on the show. There's three phases to hot sauce. There's phase one, which is the mouth. There's phase two, which is the guts. And there's phase three, which is the, the getting rid of it. The, uh, the butthole. Yeah. Tucker, but this, the sting ring. So I, I I'm at the point where phase one and phase three are okay. But phase two, I've, my body has, has, has, has not yielded. to the process. So phase two can be a little brutal for me. And so I've got to be sent, like, this has to make sense. I've got to have about 12 hours, 14 hours to deal with this, to deal with this.
Host 1 That's unfortunate. I'm just a phase three victim. And I might have, I think I have undiagnosed IBS anyway. So I'm like, whatever.
Andrew So I've got another thing. Do me. I've got another thing. So we've got a great listener, someone who's been with us from very early on in this process, in this game. His Instagram handle is HeyMatthew. HeyMatthew. He's a graphic designer. He does fantastic drawings. In addition to fantastic drawings, he's also a pen addict, which I myself am a hashtag pen addict. And so I've had a number of great conversations with Matthew, Matthew Morris is his name, over the last few years. And I was talking to Matthew about pens recently, you know, in fact, I'd asked him for some advice, I said, Hey, you know, I've got these pens, anything else that you think I should be trying? And so he sent me some ideas. So I ordered some pens. And then I sent him just a screenshot, like, Hey, I ordered those things, you know, like, You know how you do. Oh, look, got them coming. And he was like, oh, you know what? If you're in and I'd purchased a pen case at the same time, a Japanese pen case, which I still don't have because whatever. Yeah. And he was like, hey, you know, I'm really good friends with the guys at Knock Company, N-O-C-K Co. And they've sent me some just some samples over the years. I've got some extra stuff. Uh, let me send you some stuff. And so he sent me this fantastic gift package. Uh, it had a, uh, a couple of different pen cases and, um, and he sent me like a pencil and, uh, and this great wood block. But one of the things he sent me was this pen case from Knot Company and I've got the name of it right here. He sent me two of them. He sent me one, a Brasstown zip roll pen case, and he also sent me a Tallulah. zip two pen case. And so when I got it, I hadn't seen these things, and I just got a package. And when I got it, he says, hey, this Tallulah pen case can second as a watch roll. It's got sort of a big business card. It looks like a pen case, right? It's like a zipper pen case. On one side, it's got like a business card slot. And on the other side, it's got two sort of pen holder slots. And he says, one of the pen holder slots is easily big enough to hold a 20 millimeter or a 22 millimeter NATO. And the business card side is perfect for holding a watch. And so I, well, shit, let me try this out. Sure enough. I grabbed my Speedmaster and I grabbed a NATO and I stuffed them in and I was like, this is the coolest watch roll I've ever seen. So a single watch roll. So say you're traveling. This is, this is what popped into my head. So say I'm traveling and I just want to take the one watch on my wrist and another watch and maybe a NATO strap. So I'm going to take, uh, my Noda sector dive watch, which I'm a proud owner of. Uh, I'm going to take an Omega Speedmaster and, uh, I'm going to take a NATO strap just to have in case I want to throw one of these on a NATO. And I'm going to take a watch strap, a strap change tool, because I'm going to need to take these bracelets off to put the NATO on. Obviously. Perfect. It is like purpose made for this. There's plenty of protection. Everything's very well padded and protected. The materials are grade A. The zippers are phenomenal. It is it it's purpose made for business cards and pens. And it just happens to be the coolest, most effective single watch watch traveling case I've ever, I've ever had.
Host 1 It's gotta be super padded because they're planning on ink leaks and they don't want it to get anywhere else. That's genius.
Andrew It's awesome. It's awesome. So the Tallulah from knock company is my other thing for the week. I recommend you check it out. I'll post a, I'll post a picture on our Instagram. I posted one in our story a couple of days ago of, of this thing. Uh, but I'll, I'll actually take a picture and put it up on the page so you can see it. Um, yeah, Fantastic, highly recommended, not company Tallulah as a single watch traveling case. Wes, I know you're in Macau. What have you been doing? What's your other thing? Go.
Wes from Nodus Watches So being stuck at home for so long, you can only watch so much Netflix before you start to feel your brain cave in. Generally, I'm the type of guy that likes to be using my brain a little bit more as opposed to sitting back and, you know, just blindly absorbing stuff from a screen. So I've been learning and transcribing John Mayer's Instagram posts on, um, on his, so, so he does a lot of these like, uh, guitar lessons or just like jams on Instagram. So the thing is I only have a acoustic guitar here, so I've been doing it on an acoustic, all this like weird electric stuff that he's doing. Um, but yeah, basically just transcribing all of these Instagram live or Instagram post, uh, videos and a lot of the live stuff that he does as well. Uh, there are a lot of people that post that on Instagram, so I'm just finding all of them and transcribing his solos or his warmups or any of that stuff. Um, and the guitar I'm doing it on is actually a brand new one. So my girlfriend, um, she's in LA, her brother. was in Shenzhen, which is about an hour away. He was there two months ago and he sends me a message saying, Hey, my old spot, he's a musician. My old sponsor offered me a, uh, a guitar and I'd like you to have it. So he came to Macau to meet my parents, to drop it off. Uh, and my dad sent me photos. My dad's also a guitar collector. So he's into watches and guitars. I'm basically the exact same person as he is just a taller, skinnier, better looking younger. Um, All the important things. So he received it. He sent me photos and it uses this wood called Filipino rosewood. And I've never heard of it before, but it has this like beautiful thick grain. There are a couple of manufacturing inconsistencies, which I later found out is totally normal because it's a completely handmade guitar, but it has really nice abalone inlays, all these like nice bevels for the forearm and the cutaway on the body itself. So I finally got here, super excited to play it. And it is one of the best sounding and best playing guitars I've probably ever played in my life. And so I've been using that pretty much every day. And then I decided since it's a new guitar, I'm still like kind of break it in a little bit and trying to form my opinion on it. So what I wanted to do was play the strings that came with it, brand new strings. I want to play it until they basically rot off. I wanted to try it out with a new pair of strings, or a new set of strings rather, that I've never used before. And they're these new D'Addario coated strings. I usually use Elixir, which is, you know, I've been using it for years. And they have a coating on it that prevents it from corroding and rusting and snapping off. And D'Addario decided to do the exact same thing. And I haven't put it on yet. I'm still trying to rot the current strings away. But as soon as those are gone, I'm going to try these new strings out. on this new guitar, and I am really excited.
Andrew Very cool. Very cool. You know, I'd like to give a quick... You're doing way cooler stuff than us. You are. You're doing cooler stuff. I'd like to give a quick shit out, shout, shit out? Uh-oh. No, we're done talking about hot sauce. I'd like to give a quick shout out to the Long Roads Podcast, which is your podcast with your business partner, Colin. You guys did a few weeks ago, you released an episode that was... It's not a watch podcast, right? That's what you guys say. It's not a watch podcast. Although naturally, you guys tend to talk about watches from time to time. However, your episode where you guys talked about your musical history, how you guys met, your musical projects was super fun, super duper fun. One of my favorite sort of non-watch watch podcast listening experiences. But you guys played a John Mayer song at the end of that episode called Queen of Los Angeles, and it was phenomenal. And I begged you to send me a copy of it on MP3, which you did, which I've got on my playlist now, and I've been listening to. But quick shout out to that show, because it's super fun. If you haven't listened to it at home, check it out, Long Road's podcast. It's Wes, who's here with us today, and his partner, Colin, the brains behind Notice Watches. Phenomenal listening, always very good, very entertaining.
Host 1 Also known as the loom goblin. He's in the basement right now, sniffing loom.
Andrew So, so that was very, that was very cool. Uh, that was very cool. And so I wanted to give a quick shout out, uh, Wes, before we wrap up, anything you want to say to these people?
Wes from Nodus Watches Uh, no, thank, thank you guys for having me on. Um, you know, definitely strange times. I, Every time I do something that's somewhat public facing, I try to encourage everyone just to be responsible and stay in. I know like with all the news going out, we don't want to talk anymore about the coronavirus and economy and stupid shit like that. But, you know, it's important that we stay responsible and stay in and we all do our part to help out. And, you know, as far as notice goes, we're still chugging ahead. We're still releasing what we can. Uh, lately our attention has been placed more on actually securing masks. It's, it's kind of funny how, where, where all of this stuff goes, right? Like running a watch company has led me down a path where now I'm soliciting mask purchases in the US. Um, but yeah, so that, that's kind of how we're trying to play our little part in, in this thing. And I think everyone should play their own part, even if that means just staying inside and, you know, staying safe and washing your hands.
Andrew Amen. Watch your hands. Stay at home.
Host 1 America.
Andrew And Macau.
Host 1 Yeah. And Macau.
Andrew Yeah. And everywhere in between. Yeah. Also that. All those, all the places. Well, Andrew, do you got anything else? Do you got anything else before we go today?
Host 1 I don't.
Andrew All right. Well, I guess it's that time then. Thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20. Wes, thank you for joining us.
Wes from Nodus Watches Yeah. Thank you guys. I'll have, uh, I'll have you guys come on to long roads at some point too.
Host 1 We'll love it.
Andrew Love it. Can't wait. Check us out on Instagram at 40 and 20. Also check us out on patreon.com slash 40 and 20. That's where we get the support for the show. That's how we keep these episodes coming every week. That's how we pay for our hosting and our supplies and our hardware, et cetera. Check out notice watches. Seriously, you guys notice watches are making the best watches in the micro brain game. They're extremely affordable and the quality is up there with anything else you can get at two or three times the price. Uh, yeah, that's it. Don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye bye.
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