Episode 67 - Interview With Eric Of EA Leather Goods

Published on Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:00:00 -0800

Synopsis

This podcast episode features an interview with Eric from EA Leather Goods, a maker of custom leather watch straps. Eric discusses his background in leatherworking, getting into making watch straps, his process and techniques, sourcing leather materials, and his future plans for expanding into other leather goods like bags and portfolios. He also talks about his personal watch collection which includes many Seiko watches. The hosts also discuss their recent experiences like going steelhead fishing, seeing movies like Parasite, and utilizing public libraries for audiobooks.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is the 40 in 20 podcast with your hosts Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. How are you? I'm all right. Just all right.
Unknown	Just medium. I've been eating, I've been eating for like 48 hours straight. Nice. So I've got a bit of a food baby. Yeah, I could tell. I've got a bit of a food baby. I think I pooped like 11 times today.
Andrew	That's what happens when you break keto. Right. Just nothing, nothing goes right.
Unknown	But yeah, other than that, I'm good. I watched the football game, played some cribbage with my wife. I ran this morning, which is always nice. It's nice, but like in the middle of the run, I'm always like, fuck this. And then afterwards I'm like, yeah, yeah.
Andrew	I see. I didn't just fuck this the entire way from the first step to the last. And oftentimes it's only like five steps. I'm like, nah, I'm done. This isn't going to happen.
Unknown	Those five steps were terrible.
Andrew	That was more than enough.
Unknown	No, you know what? I love running. Running long is not, it gets boring, right?
Andrew	Yeah.
Unknown	You know, I was running for just over two hours today.
Andrew	That's so dumb.
Unknown	And it gets a little boring. I listen to podcasts, though.
Andrew	I would get bored. I mean, I get bored a lot of two hour movies. Yeah. And that's on the couch with beer. Yeah. Those are my three favorite things. Sitting, drinking and zoning out. Yeah. Well, I like those things, too. You know me. Yeah. But what I'm saying is that I get bored doing my three favorite things.
Unknown	You got to stay active, man. I'm not getting any younger.
Andrew	No, that's true.
Unknown	I'm not getting any younger. How are you?
Andrew	Good. I mean, I also watched a football game. I have not eaten as much as you in the last 48 hours, but I ate a whole mess of barbecue fare today for the game. Had some burnt ends, some Swedish meatballs, some chicken wings. And then there was a crock pot filled with like jalapeno chicken cheddar dip. There was one filled with a beer cheese soup. And then there was a big crock pot filled with chili. And I said, you know what I'm going to do? And I did it. I mixed all three of them together. And then I broke up some cornbread, put it in, and it was delightful. It was one of the best things I've ever eaten.
Unknown	It sounds delightful. And you did not have to cook because you were working.
Andrew	Yeah, I was working all day, so I just showed up to the party and started eating. Because normally you would have had to cook everything. Yeah, normally I would have done the whole fare. I probably would have done a brisket or pulled pork or some variety of something delicious. And I didn't have to do any of that today. It's great.
Unknown	I love it.
Andrew	Nothing nothing quite like showed up for the party.
Unknown	And so just to be clear it's Super Bowl Sunday in case you're listening and you couldn't figure that out.
Andrew	Yeah there's only one football to watch in February unless you're tuning into the XFL. When does that start. Is that starting like now.
Unknown	I think it starts this weekend. Oh does it. I think so. So I think St. Louis is getting an XFL team.
Andrew	That's the only thing they can handle it seems.
Unknown	So on that on that note we should introduce our guest who everybody will know everybody will know because you'll have read this is an interview with so and so. And I'm just going to say before he, before we give him a chance to talk, he is literally working as we sit, as we sit, I can see him with a mallet in his hand. Uh, but today we've gone on Eric from EAA. Eric, how are you?
Eric	I'm all right. How are you guys doing?
Andrew	Good. We're great. Really happy to have you. And also really, really excited to get just a little sneak peek at the, at the workings from a different camera angle than we're used to. Usually we just see like the over the shoulder view, but seeing your facial expressions and watching it go down was, I liked that.
Eric	A little peek behind the curtain. Was I making funny faces?
Andrew	No, it was just the focus and the, and also laughing at us and kind of heckling us just with your eyes. I liked that too.
Unknown	Yeah. So, so, uh, I'm curious, I'm curious when you record your hands videos, what's your setup for that?
Eric	Um, I got a tripod, uh, just a little, uh, Amazon tripod that I use for macro shots on my proper camera. And I have a cell phone holder that I hook that up to. So you can actually see the feet of the tripod and some of the videos because I'm lazy.
Unknown	Do you just sort of stick it between your legs?
Eric	No, I stick it to the side. Um, and I kind of shoot at an angle to my hands. Um, my, my jacked up hands that people commented about, but, uh, whatever, working man's hands, working man's hands.
Unknown	Yeah. So Eric, uh, we, we've just sort of gone into it, but why don't you introduce yourself, who you are, what you do? Um, yeah. And, and, and why you're on our show today?
Eric	Well, you asked me and I was like, sure, I can make some stuff up for an hour about leather. Um, I guess everybody knows me from Instagram. On there, I'm at EA8 and EA Leather Goods. I don't post a lot on the EA Leather Goods, pretty much finished products. Most of my making of the straps, I try to, lately I've been trying to dual post to both, but I'm real busy, so those are kind of hit or miss when I post them. I have no set schedule with anything. I make watch straps predominantly. Um, that's what people are going to know me for. I didn't start out making watch straps. That's kind of something I backed into, um, because I was making leather goods anyway. And I got the watch bug super bad. And, uh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I've always been the kind of guy that wears a watch and, um, kind of doing the EDC thing. Um, I started seeing watch straps and wallets and I'm like, I'm not going to pay that much. What these guys are asking. That's, that's ridiculous. I'll do it myself. Uh, it's more expensive to do it yourself. It turns out, yeah, it turns out it was a, it was a lot more expensive than if I were just by it, but that's kind of how I am.
Andrew	So here I am. That sounds familiar.
Unknown	Yeah. You know, it's how I can do that. It's how both of us are too. I, you know, we've spent, We've spent thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. Stop saying that, adding the thousands. Trying to save hundreds of dollars, right?
Andrew	If even that much.
Unknown	Exactly. It's the story of my life, a story of Andrew's life too, as well, I know. So EA Leather Goods, EA Leather Goods, we came to know you a number of months ago, just sort of by your Instagram presence and, you know, figured out what you did. sparked up a conversation. You occasionally wear cool shoes. I was like, I like shoes. Uh, and you make pretty neat straps. You make, I think one of the most, uh, sought after custom leather straps in the, in the quote unquote watch family. I think, do you think that's, that's fair to say?
Eric	Uh, within our circle? Yeah. Um, there's a couple other guys that I know, um, that are in like this, this, bespoke strap kind of genre. Because you can there's a lot of great leather workers out there that are making a lot of good straps. But I the way I do it is it's completely custom to exactly what the customer wants. I don't make any I don't write as of right now I don't have any pre made pre-cut straps. You know, I just I don't have the time nor do I really want to turn out 40 straps at once that all look the same because everybody's wrist size is different.
Andrew	So. So I want to circle back a little bit. You said you got started into watch straps because you caught the bug when you were doing leather work before that. Let's talk a little bit about your leather work. Was that another just a I can do this or was it was it something that you've you've done you've had a passion for? Kind of want to trace that trajectory.
Eric	The leather goods started, um, I needed a new wallet. And at that time, I guess it was six or seven years ago, seven years ago, um, those minimalist wallets were really popular on the EDC forums, uh, uh, everyday carry.com and, uh, you know, high consumption. And I was like, that's bullshit. I'm not paying 80 bucks for two pieces of leather stitched together. I can do that. I know how to draw. I can stitch. I mean, how hard could it be? Little did I know. So I went out to like Joanne's fabrics or Michael's or something. I got some pleather and I got some needle and some thread and I sketched out what I wanted and I put together a really crappy wallet. It sucked. It didn't really hold anything. It was too small. And then I kind of went from there. You know, I started out with a utility knife, an ice pick, A needle, some crappy thread and some pleather. And then it just kind of, it snowballed, you know? What were you doing with the ice pick? It was like my mother-in-law's ice pick when she, she moved in with us of like, okay, ice pick, that's going to be pretty good to poke holes. So I just pretty much raided the kitchen utility drawer and I'm like, ah, I can use that. I can use that. I MacGyver the whole thing. And nobody's going to miss this? Nobody uses an ice pick anymore. So yeah, it's my ice pick now. I still have it. It's actually right here. on my uh yeah for audio this doesn't help but you know that's there's the ice pick does it still get any use hold keep keep holding that keep holding that hold that up i just screenshotted it all right yeah i use it all the time it's it's great as a scratching owl um oh yeah when i when i do uh when i do thick because i make holsters too from wallets and i went to holsters a straight down through one top and then it leaves an indent in the bottom and you flip it over and you got to put another dent. It's a whole process. I'm probably doing it wrong, but it's the way I know how to do it because I'm completely self-taught. I don't know any other leather smiths. I've never met them in person. I've never gone to any leather shops. There's no how to make leather schools. So it's kind of like me and YouTube and watching how people do stuff and saying, OK, I can probably do that.
Andrew	And then some trial and error and
Eric	A lot of error. Yeah. A lot of error. You know, I have boxes, pounds of crap straps that I got to one point and just, it wasn't working. So you start over again. It's easier to start over than to fix mistakes with leather. That's what I found.
Unknown	And, and you know, really the raw materials aren't, aren't cheap, but at the end of the day, your, your labor is more expensive than, than the raw materials.
Eric	Yeah, that's true. Um, That's, that's definitely true. Yeah.
Unknown	So, you know, uh, I've actually got, uh, some DIY experience in leather goods myself. Uh, and one of my inspirations was actually you seeing, seeing, you know, I think I was sitting, uh, in the, in the chair in the front room and this has been, gosh, this has been two years. I mean, it's before we started the podcast and I think you posted like a story segment and you had a, uh, you had a comb. Uh, you know, for, for stitch, a stitch comb, you know, uh, what do you call this? What do you call this tool? Pricking irons. A pricking iron. You had a pricking iron and you were, you just had a, a normal leather strap and you had, you had used some sort of all to sort of trace a line and you were just running a pricking iron down. And I was like, I can do that. I can fucking do that.
Eric	Like if this asshole can do it on Instagram, I mean, I can do it. Yeah. Why not? I've actually, I, I get a lot of pleasure. A lot of guys contact me like, Hey man, how do I get into it? And I'm like, here you go. I'll type up a little word document, send it to them. Like this is the supplies you should start out with. It's just, this is kind of the process. You have any questions, you send me a DM and I've helped, I've helped like five, six guys through it. And Some of them caught the bug. The other guys are like, this is bullshit. This is hard.
Andrew	So you get the word, you send them a word document and a week later you've got an order placed from them.
Eric	Yeah, that's happened twice. So yeah, I'd rather teach somebody how to do it than to just, you know, if they're interested, I'll totally teach somebody how to do this because I mean, it's not hard. It's hard to get it. consistently right. Sure. And you know, kind of like with photography, anybody can shoot a thousand pictures and get two or three good ones, but to consistently have, you know, good, good photos.
Unknown	So you've got to work at it, right? That's the, that's the bottom line. You've repetition and iterations.
Eric	Yeah. It's that 10,000 hour theory, right? Right. So, yeah.
Andrew	So you've got all this leather work. What prompted this, the, where did, where did the watch bug
Eric	Come in. My first. OK. So in my job, I transferred from I transferred into a position where I was going to be dressing up every day. And I'm like, well, I guess I need to find a fancier watch than a G-Shock. And so.
Andrew	Good on you, because a lot of people don't do that.
Eric	Right. Yeah. They look really cool in a suit and a G-Shock. But you can pull it off. You have the confidence. I do it some days and just not the big one. But so I got a time X weekender because that's about the budget I was looking at. Fifty bucks. I'm like, yeah, that's that's at that time to me not being well versed in how expensive watches can get. I bought a weekender and I hated the strap. I'm like, well, I got all this leftover leather. I've seen, you know, single pass leather straps. So I made a single pass leather strap with a brass knob on it that you kind of fit through the hole. Sure. And then I started researching more watch straps and I saw a YouTube video from Hermes on how they made straps and how they finished straps. I'm like, well, holy shit. I'm going to try that.
Unknown	That's not science. That's Hermes and it's still not science.
Eric	Yeah. It's, uh, wow. I watched these ladies put the edge paint on it, and it was just the precision and the speed. I'm like, holy shit. So that's how I kind of got into watch straps. And then I had a conversation with Kaz from two watch snobs, because he knew I was starting to make straps. And I believe Terry from Toxic Knittos. And they're like, well, start selling watch straps, man. And I was kind of nervous about it, but I kind of just Jumped into it, started selling off of Instagram.
Andrew	Did you get traction right away from from even your earliest products?
Eric	You know, they were because I was at such a low price point, people were willing to take the chance on never really having seen my straps in person before. At that time, I was selling straps for 40 bucks a piece. Geez Louise. Yeah, I'm really good at business.
Andrew	So, uh, yeah, that's just like a drug dealer. First one's free.
Eric	I mean, rad. The first one's free. That's how I get you. Um, so I was selling $40 watch straps and they weren't the greatest. Um, or kind of now that I look back at it, it's kind of embarrassing. And I've, I've sent out some straps to people to kind of make amends for my embarrassment of the strap that they bought. But, uh, and they, they picked up, um, pretty consistent, um, And then during the holiday seasons, it picks up more. You know, I've been making straps now for I think five years. So it's I'm so busy at work. It keeps me busy with leather because I'll get four or five orders a month and then nothing for two months. But I'll still have those four or five orders because it takes me about six to eight weeks to turn an order around.
Andrew	Is that a function of the labor going into that strap or limited time to be able to work on it or some kind of combination of the two?
Eric	It's limited time, definitely, to be able to sit down at my bench. And then some of these straps I'm making, the progression, they're getting harder to make. I'm making a strap. I have six straps on my table now. They range from Oris Aquus to a Casio What is it? The 1300, the WM 1300 or something like that. Um, the AE 1300, you know, a Zodiac, Seawolf, uh, Grand Seiko, uh, GMT. So they run the gambit, but some of these straps are, they've got funky lugs. So the math has to be really tight. Yeah. That is, I've been working on this strap for my buddy, um, who does watch reviews, watch clicker. Um, I've been working on the strap for four months, like no shit. And I'm like, Hey man, I'm sorry it's taken so long, but this strap sucks. It's I've made this strap eight different times and it still doesn't come out to where I feel good about sending it out. So I think I'm on the final one now. I think this one's actually going to work.
Unknown	So, well, so beyond just, uh, beyond just the types of straps you're making, you know, the watches you're making straps for, um, Can you walk us through a little bit about the evolution of your strap making process? You said you mentioned that, you know, some of your early straps are embarrassing to you now. And I think that that's that's a function of being someone who cares about what they do. Right. You know, we listen back to some of our earliest podcast episodes, even some recent episodes. We're like, oh, man, I can't believe we published that, you know. And but that's OK. Right. Because that's sort of the evolution of where we've come. And, you know, we understand that that when that happens, we learn something. Uh, I'd like to know just in terms of, you know, what you've learned and how you've developed, how has that changed a little bit? You know, what, what were you doing? What was your, uh, workflow and your process in the beginning? How, how has that, how has that evolved?
Eric	A lot of it is just learning the tricks and trades. Um, leather comes in different, uh, finishes. So one finish isn't going to cut or tool. or stitch the same as another. I didn't know that in the beginning. Tools play a big, big part in it. Better tools are going to give you more consistency. The finish is going to be better. The products and the type of leather I use, I was using cheaper leather in the beginning because I didn't know any better to where now I try to exclusively buy from American tanneries if I can. So that's hard, because there's, there's a big demand for those. And you can't always get the stuff in stock. But I just I feel better buying from American tanneries, and they make solid, they make great product. And that helps out a good leather will turn out a really good strap if you you don't completely fuck it up. Sure. But uh, you know, but just just the time making the repetition that the tricks in the trade, you know, that's how the quality gets better.
Unknown	What about construction? How has your construction changed since you started?
Eric	I've learned that some some lugs, especially the hidden lugs, you have to shave the leather down really, really, you know, a millimeter. And at first I wasn't backing those correctly. So the leather was stretching, but did some research and there's a fabric you can buy that I now incorporate between the top and the bottom. uh leather pieces before they're smashed together so it gives it a little bit more reinforcement so that leather doesn't stretch.
Unknown	Is that that's like some sort of silk or or something?
Eric	Yeah it's like a silk or or polyester.
Unknown	I think we talked about that at some point you and I talked about that at some point.
Eric	Yeah we did uh yeah um a couple months ago three or four months ago we talked about that but yeah um the edge edge paint I was using a not a great edge paint. And then I started picking up the same stuff that Hermes uses. Because it just works better. You know, so it's just like the all the money I've made off straps, I've turned right back into my business of making straps, or leather goods. So when I sell you, you know, a couple straps, I buy another tool.
Unknown	Well, so, uh, you had mentioned some American, uh, tanneries that you like to buy for, uh, who are you sourcing most of your leather from these days?
Eric	Um, uh, there's a couple of shops that I, uh, I use, uh, Mavericks out in Bend, Oregon. Hey, we know about Bend, Oregon. Yeah.
Unknown	That's our neck of the woods.
Eric	Yeah. Well, there's a great leather shop there, uh, called, uh, Mavericks Leathers. Um, They have a lot of cool Horween. They carry a lot of Horween seconds, which is an industry term for when it doesn't meet the standards of Horween's color or feel, they sell it as a second, which turns out a lot of unique colors and patterns on the leather, which I pick up a lot of because you're not going to see that color or texture or feel. District leather supply, out on the East Coast, and Rocky Mountain Leather, which is in Salt Lake City, I believe. So I buy from those three guys, those companies mainly, and I pretty much only buy American Tanneries. SB Foot, which is in Red Wing, they make the Red Wing shoes, or boots. Whoreween, which is up in Chicago, and Craig & Wick, Wicket and Craig, I'm sorry. Wicket and Craig. Which is in Pennsylvania. Yeah. Which is in Pennsylvania. They have great leather. And then in my hometown, we have a Herman Oak tannery. They've been around since the 1800s. And I get a lot of my, just plain natural bench tan, which I use for the inside of the straps from them.
Unknown	Sure. You know, in terms of tanneries, are these different? tanneries doing different types of products? Are you using these for different things or does it just sort of depend on what's available and what you're finding? A lot of it has. Well, I was going to say, obviously, Horween has, you know, Horween's famous for, I think, really two things, right? A number of things. But recently it seems like Chrome Excel leather is, I think, maybe the sexiest leather that you can buy. I don't know if it's the best, but probably the sexiest. And obviously shell cordovan, which a lot of people don't know what shell cordovan is, but it's still a thing. And they're the ones, they're the only ones that I can think of right now that consistently make a shell cordovan product.
Eric	They're the only people in America that are making it. There's a couple other, there's an Italian tannery that has the shell. Yeah, they're known for their shell. which is stupid expensive and I don't buy it because it just isn't cost. The cost of what I'd have to buy it for, I'd have to raise my prices to a place where I'm just not comfortable doing it yet. But yeah, every tannery kind of has their own little niche. The Chrome XL I use a lot. From Horween I use a lot of their Dublin series. and Essex and the Essex and Dublin leathers go through the same process as a shell. But they're not horse, they're cow, and they do a little wax process to it.
Unknown	So do you get a similar a similar result?
Eric	They don't look like the shell, but it cuts really smooth. It has a great pull up effect. I was using the chromic cell for a lot of stuff, but I was noticing that it was not taking abrasions really well. Um, it was scratching pretty bad. So I kind of steered away from that to a more, um, a little tougher, a little waxier finish, you know, cause that, that has a really smooth, glossy finish, you know, and it's great leather. Um, but on your wrist, banging into stuff, you know, I try to, uh, I try to road test all the leathers before I go out and sell them.
Andrew	So tragic, that must be really hard. Yeah, it sucks. So so we've got the background. Where where are we going moving forward? We know where you're at now. What's what have you got planned for, say, the next three years, the next five years in the way of production and the way of new products, kind of new lines? What's what do you got going?
Eric	I've been sketching out products for the last year. And then when I get the time, I want to start making them. I want to start making some messenger bags. Yeah, because when I think about making a messenger bag, it's I can use all the stuff that I've learned, you know, the French style of stitching, a box stitch, you know, the construction, because I'm kind of a bag whore. I have I have tons of bags. backpacks, bags, messenger bags, I got them everywhere. But there's always something wrong with it that I don't like so much. So I was thinking I'll just make my own bag. And I got it. I got in a full side of leather a couple months ago to make a bag and just never got to it because of the make watch straps, but I'm already making wallets. I've been doing that for years now. holsters. I want to do a couple more designs on wallets. I think there's a couple of areas that I can change up that are going to be cool. Field notes, holders, the field notes, notebooks. I want to start making more of those again. And I've been making a lot of portfolios that hold legal pads and stuff. And when it comes to that, it's just, I don't have the time to sit down and make something that large. Um, which is kind of ridiculous because I don't have time to sit down and make six straps all at once either, but I find time to do that. So that sounds familiar. It's just, yeah, I'd like to kind of steer not away from watch straps, but drop down the amount of watch straps I'm making so I can make other products.
Unknown	What about, what about, um, you know, you, you touched on this earlier, but I don't think you finished this thought. Do you have any, any interest in, um, production watch straps, you know, something where you do sell, Um, you know, 40 of the same type of strap. Is that something you'd, you'd ever dip your foot into?
Eric	Yeah. A lot of that has to do with my price point now. So how would I justify selling a pre-made watch strap, but still be able to get over my overhead on leather? Because I'm, my prices now are pretty low. I know that. And everybody else knows that.
Unknown	Has anybody ever told you that before?
Eric	Has anybody ever talked to you about that before? I hear it a lot. I've heard it from you guys. I've heard it from the guys on Two World Watch Snubs. I heard it from other guys that make leather shafts. They're like, dude, you're fucking killing us with your prices because we're charging this much and you're charging half that. And I'm like, well, I don't want to tell you. Drop your prices, buddy. Make a better product. Right? Yeah. So, uh, Yeah, I don't know. I'd like to be able to do some pre pre made ones. But I know my prices are raising this year just because leather is getting more expensive. shipping's getting more expensive. buckles, buckles are getting expensive. So that affects my, my ability to buy better stuff. So everything's gonna have to come up this year. I'm kind of at the at, at the bottom of where I can sell stuff at.
Andrew	So is your goal of expanding your catalog to kind of open, carve out a little corner of the internet for a leather work store? Or are you just wanting to kind of break away from watch straps and keep that passion alive with other similar, but still different projects?
Eric	Yeah, I don't need a store. I don't have a website. Everything I do is on Instagram. So I just want to not have to make watch straps that much. because it's it was fun in the beginning. But now it's like it's kind of becoming too much of a job. And I want to be excited about doing leather goods. You know, and to me, that's doing something other than a watch strap or two every week. You know, it's it's getting kind of I'm getting kind of over it. And talking to my other friends that make watch straps, they're all kind of doing the same thing. So we're all trying to expand out to different areas. you know, to make sunglass cases and card holders and the phone stands, just something, something different because, you know, watch straps is kind of like, I'm not going to be rich. I'm not going to corner the market on watch straps. You know, I kind of do it because it's, it's relaxing. It's, it's, it's like a meditation after my day at work and I'm making people happy because they're getting exactly what they want. So, yeah.
Andrew	Do you intend to still do all bespoke, leather goods or would you start having an inventory of portfolios and legal pad holders and bags and?
Eric	No, everything is still going to be bespoke. I think the only thing that I would do pre-made is watch straps because then I wouldn't have to focus so much on making watch straps. It would, it would free me up some time to be able to say, you know, somebody come in and say, Hey, I want a portfolio of SD foot, you know, brown in color with red stitching. And I'm like, cool. You know, and I can cut all that stuff out and stitch it up and send it off. And if somebody orders a watch strap, I'll have three or four on hand and I don't have to worry about making watch straps.
Unknown	So at this point, you do everything by hand, right? Obviously, you've got some sanders. I can see I can see a belt sander right behind you in the corner. You gave us a little virtual tour of the shop earlier. But one thing I didn't see, I didn't see any sort of walking foot or, um, or sewing machine. Is that something, you know, as you move into bigger items that you might consider?
Eric	No. Um, I, I will always do hand stitch stuff. I, I don't want a sewing machine. I don't want to spend $3,000 for a sewing machine. I like, that's my favorite part of doing the leather work is stitching. Um, it's cool. I like that. I think the only thing I'll do is I've been testing out clicker presses, the dies that cut out shapes.
Unknown	Also not cheap, right?
Eric	The clicker press is expensive, but I have an arbor press that I'm retrofitting to be able to fit a clicker press die in so I can stamp out a bunch of stamps real quick. I think that's how I can justify to myself that it's not completely handmade per se. I can drop the price on a little because I'm not spending so many hours cutting and sanding. It's just put in the leather, slam down the clicker press, and then there you go. You got your shape. Just glue it together and stitch it.
Unknown	And a pressed edge is a clicker press edges. You can't replicate that. I mean, unless you've just got a super steady hand, right? That's always been so, you know, I've made at this point, what, 40 or 50 straps. I've made a handful of wallets. But for me, the hardest thing is getting those edges right. I wound up doing a lot of sanding. Having that ability to cut, you know, how much time do you think that price saves you on a strap?
Eric	Two hours. Yeah. Yeah. Because right now I have templates. I have a 3D printer. So I got in the CAD and I made a bunch of templates and then I 3D printed a bunch of watch strap templates. because a lot of people were asking for odd sizes like 22 millimeter tapered down to 18. And I tried free handing that and it sucked. It was terrible. And there's a lot of math and geometry involved. And I'm like, this is I'm not doing this again. So I made a pattern. So I scratch out the scratch out the shape, and then I freehand cut it. But I'm just it's pretty much just following the lines at that point. Right? So yeah, but yeah, hand cutting. No two straps are the same when you're hand cutting. you know, little, little, uh, deviations and stuff like that. But yeah, I'll still be hand cutting, still hand cutting, still hand stitching, still hand cutting, still hand stitching, finish sanding. I do all by hand. The, uh, the one standard I have there is, uh, mainly for when I do, uh, single pass NATOs, uh, if I can't order the, um, the leather sanded down to the right thickness. I'll do it myself.
Unknown	Yeah. So it's the thickness that's the issue. Yeah. Oh, Andrew.
Andrew	You're welcome. So another question that we've got for you, what is your, what is your personal watch collection look like? So we knew about the G-Shock and we know about the Weekender. What else have we got rocking over there? as you've caught this bug and really steered pretty hard into it?
Unknown	Because I'm pretty sure I spy a Gen 1 monster.
Eric	Yeah, Gen 1 orange monster I have on right now on a clashing leather strap that is a camouflage pattern because that's the way I felt this morning. Predominantly, I have a lot of Seikos. majority of my watches are Seiko's ranging from, you know, I've never really gotten to the super expensive watches. My dream watch is your Speedmaster, but I still can't seem to get hit by a car.
Unknown	Yeah, it's my dream watch too, come to find.
Andrew	All you got to do is close your eyes when you walk into the crosswalk and then boom.
Eric	At some point I get hit by a car, but no.
Unknown	Walk slower. Walk slower.
Eric	Yeah. Trip in front of a car. I'll keep that in mind. , and Yeah, they're pretty incredible. I actually, uh, they sent me one to do a little review, the Contrail. That was a great watch. I had that for a week.
Unknown	Um, you only kept it for a week.
Andrew	We almost didn't send it back.
Unknown	Yeah. You know, the thing is they, you know, they can only do so much.
Eric	There was, there was four guys waiting for me and the guy right behind me is like, are you done with it yet? Are you done with it yet? So I sent that off to him after a week. Um, that was a, that was a cool watch. I, I regret not picking one up.
Unknown	Um, we had the, we had the sand, we had the sand 12 hour control for a while and we would fight over it. We'd, we'd, we'd meet once a week, you know, we meet once a week and then, well, what are you going to take? We'd fight over that one.
Andrew	Draw straws and put watches and black velvet bags and just pick up a bag. And yeah, it's definitely a very cool watch.
Eric	Um, But I picked up a retrospect one in white. And then when they came out with a retrospect two, I picked up that one in blue. And what else did I buy last year? I bought a lot of cheaper Seikos, a couple of vintage Seikos, 6119s. I picked one of those up, but yeah, mostly Seikos and divers. That's what I have.
Unknown	You have a favorite watch right now?
Eric	Uh, no. And it's an issue because I have so many watches. I don't think I'm spending enough time with the watches. Cause that makes me sound like a weirdo. Um, I I'm always going to be an SKX fan boy. I have six of them.
Unknown	Amen, man.
Andrew	You should look at Everett's wrist right now. Yeah.
Unknown	Oh, Oh, Oh, it's a Mako.
Eric	There you go. I got, I have a Mako too. that was the second automatic watch I bought. I started with the SNK, then I went to a Mako, then I got the SKX.
Unknown	And then you were like, fucking Mako, bullshit.
Eric	Yeah, I like that watch. It fits perfect on my wrist.
Unknown	It's a killer watch. You know, I happened upon a Mako yesterday. Andrew and I went fishing. We went steelhead fishing yesterday and I showed up at his house and six quarter after six and I was like, fuck man, I forgot a watch. Can I borrow something? And I knew, I knew he was going to give me the Mako and then I just kept it.
Andrew	Cause the SSB is also still here and there are only a few watches that I'm willing to take to the river.
Unknown	So now I have, so now I have a Mako.
Eric	There you go.
Unknown	Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew	No, I have a Speedmaster. It's weird how that works. It sounds like a really fair trade.
Unknown	So yeah, no, I'm an SKX fanboy too. You know, the thing is that watch is... So mine is magnetized and I've had a hard time demagnetizing it. I'm going to have to have it professionally done. So it tells terrible time. It runs, I think, about seven minutes fast right now, which is super bad, right? Yeah. But I still wear it at least once or twice a week because I just put it on my wrist and I'm like, yep, this is it. This is the watch for me. Maybe, you know, I like it better I like wearing it better than any other watch in my collection, including the Speedmaster.
Eric	I just love wearing it. It's a great watch and I have a lot of them. You know, I modded one and that's probably my favorite watch, if I'm not going to bullshit. It's a modded SKX with a 4R32 movement and a stainless steel Yoboki's 12-hour bezel insert. And you just really don't need any more, you know. Black dial. Yeah, wind it up. And, and, you know, if you want to set a separate time zone, you just switch the bezel around. If you want to do, you know, if you want to count down and just do a little bit of math. So.
Unknown	What's the 4R32 movement? What is that?
Eric	It's the, um, it's the one that's in the, uh, Turtle.
Unknown	Okay. Oh, okay. So it's the hacking hand winding 7S base.
Eric	Yeah. 4R36, 4R32. Yeah, it's the hacking hand winding one. Okay. You know.
Unknown	All right.
Eric	Fantastic. Yeah.
Unknown	So I've actually got sort of a question for you. This is this is a timely question, I think, because it's got to do with current events. But you live in St. Louis. Yeah, you live in St. Louis. St. Louis does not have an NFL team.
Eric	No. Yeah, we finally got rid of those guys. I mean, yeah, we lost our football team. It's dramatic.
Andrew	Well, then they made a pretty I mean, a pretty bold run at the Super Bowl.
Unknown	Well, so you've lost you've lost a football team. You lost a football team. And then you got a football team, sort of. Yeah. And then you lost a football team. Yeah. So do you have a football team, Eric?
Eric	No. No, I don't have a football team. I was born on the West Coast, so I'm always going to be a fan of the Raiders and the Chargers. Okay. So Cal. Yeah, SoCal. I was born over in Huntington Beach, California.
Unknown	All right. So well, how about this? Because maybe this is maybe this is a little bit more pointed question. Do folks from St. Louis hate or love the Kansas City Chiefs?
Eric	I mean, generally speaking, obviously, there's good opinions are going to vary, but from my point of view, everybody that hates the Rams has jumped on the Chiefs bandwagon. And, you know, you still got a lot of diehard younger guys that love the Rams. And, you know, they're sad that they left, but they still root for them. Kansas City is pretty benign. I mean, I don't think we're really paying too much attention what they're doing. It gives, because this is, you know, because winter here, there's not shit to do. They're going to watch sports. So they're going to root for Kansas City because it's the home state team now. Yeah. That's how I see that.
Unknown	But you guys are getting an XFL team.
Eric	Are we? The Hawks? Or something like that? Are we? He says. The Pigeons?
Unknown	Alright, fair enough. Point taken.
Andrew	I'm kind of excited for the XFL. Like just enough.
Eric	Yeah, you know, we're getting a soccer team. Yeah, that's right. They're building a new soccer facility and I've played soccer all my life and that's exciting. You know, cause, uh, I go into work early on Saturdays and Sundays when I work weekends during the days. So I can watch the premier league without anybody bugging me in the office. And changing the channel on you. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I get in there and I sit down and I turn on the TV and then nobody talks to me and nobody turns the TV on because there'll be violence if they turn the TV off while I'm watching, while I'm watching soccer. Do you have a team?
Unknown	All right. Are you, uh, are you, uh, like a Manchester United guy or? Yeah, I'm a Manchester United guy. I knew it. I fucking knew you were a United guy. I'm a Man City guy myself, so.
Eric	Oh, yeah, those guys. No, when I was growing up, Manchester United, they were the shit. They're not that great anymore. Yeah, they're like the Yankees of soccer. So, you know, they're always going to, during that time, they were buying the best players and putting the best people out on the field. Sure.
Unknown	Sure. You know, they, they had a few years, they had a few years, you know, the Lampard years where they just couldn't, you basically couldn't beat them.
Eric	So no, yeah, they were unstoppable. It was ridiculous. And that's when I was growing up. So it was fun to watch.
Unknown	Cool. Well, um, so you, you may be not a football fan, but you are a football fan, uh, excited for you guys is, uh, MLS team Portland's obviously, uh, a big soccer city. We didn't get it. Yeah. We didn't get a pro team or an MLS team until fairly recently, but we've adopted them wholeheartedly. If you're downtown Portland on game day, it's nuts. Yeah, it's bonkers. We're into it, excited for the team.
Eric	That'll be fun. No, that's awesome. You guys are so lucky to have that because when I watch those games, you've got really good soccer fans. I wish we had that here. Hopefully it's a successful in St. Louis as it is in Portland. So that's what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping for a team to root for.
Andrew	It'll help too, not having a, another big, uh, big sport team, like in the way of, you're not going to have a football team that the soccer team will be the option for, I mean, outside of baseball.
Unknown	Yeah. Well, that's right. It's, it's soccer, you know, soccer and baseball season sort of overlap there. So that'll be, that'll be interesting to see, to see how that dynamic works.
Eric	Yeah. And we got those blues. They won something last year.
Unknown	Do people still watch hockey? I mean, look, Bret Hull has been dead for like 30 years. Yeah. Did you see him? Did you see him at the Stanley Cup celebration?
Eric	I saw him in person that whole week because he was in St. Louis celebrating. He was having a good time.
Unknown	He is like America's drunk uncle.
Eric	He was having so much fun. Good for him. That's the goal. Yeah. Never apologize for having a good time.
Unknown	Everybody has an uncle exactly like Brett Hall.
Eric	Yeah. Good old Brett Hall. He was, uh, yeah, those boys had, uh, they had a good week that week after they won. Yeah. So.
Unknown	All right. Well, well, good. Eric. Give you a couple minutes to wrap on anything you want to relate it to the straps before we transition. We're going to transition away from watches as we do here. Anything about watches you want to say before we move along?
Eric	No. You know, watches. I hate watches. Us too. No. About the leather goods. I'm not the only strap maker out there. There are a lot of really good really good artists making great leather products. If you don't buy from me, seek out somebody that's in your area. That's local to you. I just, what I want to say is don't buy from those big, big name. Do you have a cough? It's just a cough.
Andrew	I'm okay.
Eric	I just don't I just don't I can't I can't imagine giving them $150 for a watch strap. When you could go to a guy like me or a girl, or anybody that's making leather goods out of their basement or the garage or has a small storefront somewhere, buy from them because you can make a relationship with them. And you can ask for things and you're supporting somebody that's doing something that they really love. Because you're not doing this lover stuff if you don't actually enjoy it It's it's a pain in the ass sometimes and it's just not worth it unless you like it and those people are you know?
Unknown	You want to name-drop anybody you clued me into Alex Vance like a number of months ago and Alex makes Totally fantastic stuff anybody else you want to name-drop
Eric	Alex, of course, Mark at Mark Straps, a good friend of mine. He makes excellent stuff. He's kind of branching out too. There's a guy in Connecticut, K&H Leather. He makes a, doesn't make watch straps. He makes a lot of bags, a lot of wallets, you know, small leather items. He does fantastic work. His stuff is so clean. And then if you're in the Austin or Yeah, Austin area. There's a guy down there, Odin leather that just opened up a business, a storefront. And when I started making leather stuff, I contacted him through DMS and he was super helpful. He's a super good dude. If you're down in Austin, check him out. He makes a lot of bags and belts and coasters and key fobs and stuff like that. So those are my suggestions.
Unknown	Fantastic. Other stuff, Andrew, my man, what you got?
Andrew	I'm sorry, I have one last question.
Unknown	I literally just asked you if you had more questions.
Andrew	How do people find you? How do they reach out to you to enter into that dialogue to get a thing made of leather from you?
Eric	All right. You can contact me at EA8. If you want to see what I'm up to with leather stuff, EA leather goods, but I don't check those DMS as much as I should, because I suck at business. But if you hit me up on EA say, Hey, this is a so and so and I'm looking to have a strap made, I'll send you an email and it breaks down all your options. And then from there we go on It's usually like a six or seven DM back and forth on exactly what you want, what watch you're making it, what watch am I making it for, what's your vision of what you want to have incorporated in this watch to match dials or hands, stuff like that. So hit me up on Instagram at EA8, and that's just the best way to get ahold of me.
Unknown	And what are you charging for a custom strap these days? You've got a pretty set price that varies a little bit, I understand.
Eric	Yeah, right now it's basically $65. a strap.
Unknown	Fuck off. Seriously, dude.
Eric	Seriously, 65 bucks a strap. And then for more complicated things, it goes up. It goes up to like 100. So and I think usually you're picking up a strap for 65 bucks.
Unknown	And you said, I think you said to us offline that you really like to work with like olive suede is your that's kind of your jam, right?
Eric	You know what, man, I made, I, that, that suede that I sourced for, for your strap, I ended up getting it from a company that makes, uh, they make like traveling chest, like old timey, like a steamer chest and ballet shoes, same company. makes, uh, steamer chest and ballet shoes. So it was like the interior sway that they use for ballet shoes. And that's the only place that I could find that, that color that you wanted.
Unknown	It's money, dude. It's, it's my, it's my favorite strap I've ever had.
Eric	Well, I appreciate it. Thanks. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's what, that's what I'll do to make sure that the color's right. I'll order shit from New Hampshire.
Unknown	It was like a, what a four, four month process to source that leather.
Eric	I, yeah, I ordered in a bunch of different colors and none of them work. None of them looked right. You know, they were different from the pictures or they were different when I got them into the right lighting. And I'm like, well, that's all right. So I just, you know, that was the one that won.
Unknown	You know, I've got a reputation to maintain. Let's can, can I, can I clarify a point? The, the difficulty in finding the right leather had nothing to do with me and everything to do with you, correct?
Eric	Oh, yeah.
Unknown	All right. Andrew, attempt number two. Other thing. Go.
Andrew	So my other thing, it's not really a whole other thing. It's just a whole day of another thing. We got to go steelhead fishing yesterday and it wasn't great in that we caught one fish between the two of us. Yeah, but that's when our steelhead fishing. Such a good day. The weather was awful. It was pissing rain. It was cold. My waterproof jacket is no longer waterproof. Quote unquote waterproof. And I learned that while thigh deep in a river and rain coming from below because it's splashing off of the river and then from the side. And I was like, man, I'm wet. I think my waders are leaking. And I reached my arms inside. I'm like, oh, no, my jacket is I was so wet and it was like just dripped down my front. Some of the water absorbed through my rain shell, absorbed through my insulation layer, absorbed into my T-shirt, and then started working down my pants. So by the time I was out of my waders, I mean, you saw I was wet just straight down my thighs. Below the knees, I was great. So my waders held up just fine, but it was- I have a theory. I have a theory. Do it. You peed. Well, I obviously peed. That was the first thing I said. I wish we could fish in wetsuits so I could just make pee pee. The problem is I'm not wearing neoprene bottom boots. So if I pee, I'm just going to slosh right on pee pee for the rest of the day. And that's no, that's not good. We don't need that. So anyway, we went steelhead fishing and we fished this little, a little creek off of the Siusla river and it was blown the fuck out. Nah, it wasn't blown out.
Unknown	It was high. It was so high. It was high. It wasn't blown out. There's a difference.
Andrew	It was pretty bad, man. There were trees that were wholly submerged.
Unknown	It was. There's a difference between high and blown out, and it was high.
Andrew	There was trees floating down the river. Color was perfect. Yeah, I'm not having fish there before. I am going to take take issue with the color being perfect.
Unknown	That's what it was. Winter steelhead on a fly. Winter steelhead on a fly is like the hardest type of fly fishing you can do.
Andrew	It was a great day of fishing. We had delicious burgers. And we played on what I think is the best shuffleboard table we've ever played on such that we ended up having, we ended up playing three games. Have we ever talked about shuffleboard on the, on the show? I think we have. It would be shocking if we hadn't. Cause that's like bar game numero uno.
Unknown	So I think at this point we've played on, you know, between the two of us, almost every shuffleboard table in Lane County.
Andrew	Definitely.
Unknown	I think. And I think that's the best. So there's a, there's a place in Lane County called Deadwood. If you don't need to be there, I'm telling you, you don't need to be there. You wouldn't even know if you were there. However, however, best shuffleboard table in Lane County. Absolutely. It's old. It's ugly.
Andrew	And it's full length though.
Unknown	Perfect.
Andrew	And it is, the surface is great. There was one really mild imperfection on one corner. It just gave it some character though. Yeah, just a slight, it wasn't one of those where you're like learning to like slide your rocks through moguls. Cause there's those tables that we've played on. They're like, all right, it's going to cut left, cut right. It's going to hang on the edge and then it's going to break really hard. Oh, none of that. It was just, it was a good table to play on.
Unknown	And we had a terrific day. Eric, are you okay?
Eric	I thought you guys were talking about shuffleboard. I'm like, where the fuck are these guys? I thought it was like an actual proper- Like Florida style. Florida, like on the floor shuffleboard.
Unknown	No, we live in Oregon.
Eric	They're talking about a bar shuffleboard.
Andrew	What kind of bars do you have?
Eric	These guys and waiters playing proper shuffleboard on the ground. I'm like, that must look ridiculous. But you were in a bar. OK, I get it.
Unknown	At that point, we were no longer we were no longer wearing waders.
Andrew	I was wet enough that I ought to have been. I was still very wet down the front.
Unknown	Yeah, I was. I'm wearing like long underwear in the bar. Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew	But we weren't out of place in Deadwood. That was the interesting part. So that was that was our day. Just a good day of winter steelheading that that resulted in burgers and shuffleboard. And you were using a new steelhead rig. So I got a new steelhead rod at Cabela's right now, y'all. You can go buy one of the Cabela's brand, big horn, eight weight, four piece, nine foot rods for 80 bucks.
Unknown	You know, and it's actually a really nice setup for 80 bucks. I've never seen anything that nice for 80 bucks.
Andrew	No, it does the job. I have the four or five weight companion as a trout rod. It does it. It does the work. It's got decent action. The reel's a little loud. It's a little bit slow, but that's totally fine.
Unknown	For 80 bucks, dude. Totally perfect. So I've got another thing. What's it? I've got another thing. I watched a movie I watched a movie last night that is a Best Picture nominee, and it's one of the few Best Picture nominees that I've had a little trouble finding. It's a Korean movie by Bong Joon-ho called Parasite. Have you seen it, yes or no? No. Holy shit, it's good, dude. Is it all Korean language too? Uh, it's in Korean, so there's subtitles. So you're going to have to, you're going to have to read. You can't, uh, you can't do something else while you're watching it, you know, as you can do with some things. Uh, so you're going to have to pay attention and read subtitles, but I usually have to read subtitles anyway, cause I don't hear well.
Andrew	The subtitles are always on in my house and I'm pretty sure that's going to help the literacy of my children.
Unknown	Right, right. Uh, totally fantastic movie. The plot is, uh, It's just the way they roll out what's happening in the movie is fantastic. The relationships are phenomenal. Just a totally, totally fantastic movie. I loved it. It's not going to win Best Picture, but it maybe should. Beautiful, scary, funny, really good. Really good. Parasite. So it's available. The reason I bring it up now is we've been trying to find this. You could buy it on a couple of different retailers about a month ago. And then about two weeks ago, it became available on a bunch of different retailers. You could buy it for the 20 bucks. It's available to rent now. So you can rent an HD for, I think, six bucks.
Andrew	I'm not going to watch it till I can stream it for free because I pay for enough streaming services. You're terrible. You're terrible. Dude, I have all of them. It's awful.
Unknown	Eric, you know the duro. Other thing, what you got?
Eric	Well, the piggyback are my levels, right?
Unknown	A little different, but I gotcha. I gotcha.
Eric	Okay. Um, the piggyback on what you were saying about subtitles and you have to watch it. Um, I spend a ton of time sitting in an office behind a desk or at my leather work bench. So I listen to about four or five audio books a month. Um, and that can become expensive. You go audio. So my other thing is public libraries. Oh yeah.
Unknown	This is so good.
Eric	For free. And you can rent as many as you like, you know, six or seven a month. Um, that's my other thing. I've, I've burned through audio books. Uh, all the Vince Flynn, Brad Thor books, uh, Jim Bush or Dredston files, anything from, uh, Neil Gaiman. I've listened to the same books over and over again. So yeah, that's my other thing.
Unknown	And you check them out at the library. How does that work? How does that work?
Eric	There's an app called Libby and you punch in your library and it will pull up the library in your area and then you punch in your library card and then you just do a search for all their audio books. They're all categorized, you know, military, fantasy, stuff like that. And then you just run them out and it downloads straight to your phone.
Andrew	How long is the rental on those?
Eric	Uh, it's usually like, uh, like 14 days to 21 days, depending on how long you want to run it for. So.
Andrew	I've, I've heard of that before. I've never tried it. I just pay for Audible and. Yeah. I listen with my, however many books a month and eat it when I can't.
Eric	Yeah. Yeah. The Audible, one book a month is, I don't know, I'm doing, you know, four or five, so. Yeah. Public libraries, they're, they're, they, there's still a reason for them.
Andrew	And you're paying for it anyway. You might as well use it.
Eric	You know, our public library here are free. So, you know, you just kind of freely download as many books as you want.
Unknown	I think, I think Andrew maybe means you're paying for it in the sense that taxes, you're paying taxes.
Eric	That's true. Yeah. I think if that's where our taxes go anymore. Yeah.
Andrew	Hopefully, at least a couple of bucks here and there go there.
Unknown	You know, I've read some doomsday articles and reports in the last couple of years about the public library going the way of the dodo, and that would just be a real shame. So I think Eric's hit something. Support your public library by patronizing your public library.
Eric	Yeah, you don't actually have to go there anymore. You can just, you know, download it onto the app so you don't have to deal with the scary librarians.
Unknown	Well, uh, on that note, I think it's probably a decent time for us to, to start wrapping. Eric, do you got anything else before we break for the day?
Eric	No, I appreciate you guys having me on. I'm honored. Um, you guys have done some really cool interviews, uh, with the people that you've got on, um, all really cool people. So when you contacted me and asked me, I'm like, sure, I guess, you know, it's so boring. Um, But yeah, you guys, I started listening to your podcast from number one and I listen to it every week. It's good times.
Unknown	Man, thank you so much for saying that. And thank you so much for coming on. Honestly, it's an honor for us to have you here. Andrew, do you got anything else today? Not this time. You got nothing else? You sure?
Andrew	Pretty sure. All right. Well, one last thing, though. Eric, it was awesome to have you on. Really appreciate it. Thank you for joining us.
Unknown	And thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20. Check us on an Instagram at 40 and 20. We didn't talk about the new YouTube, but we'll get there. We have a YouTube channel. There's podcasts on it. Also, there's a watch review of the fantastic, the fantastic, fantastic notice sector dive watch. That's just at 40 and 20. I've got to figure out how to say that part, part of this YouTube at 40 and 20. Check us out on patreon.com slash 40 and 20. That's where we get all the support for the show. That's how we pay for hosting. That's how we pay for the things that make the show run, including these microphones and this recording board and all that good stuff. Don't forget to tune back in next Thursday. Wait, wait, check out Eric at EA8 at EA Leather Goods on Instagram. Don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye bye.