Episode 65 - Interview with Dan C., aka Timely Moments

Published on Wed, 22 Jan 2020 22:24:00 -0800

Synopsis

The episode features an interview with Dan Clayton, a military watch enthusiast and collector. Dan shares insights into his journey into watch collecting, starting from his time in the military when he needed to wear a watch. He discusses his fascination with vintage military watches and the stories behind them. The conversation covers topics such as Dan's involvement with watch brands like Bremont, Sangin Instruments, and Vertex in developing or promoting their military-inspired pieces. Dan also provides recommendations for affordable and authentic military watches for different budgets. Additionally, the hosts touch upon the importance of being open-minded and respectful when discussing different perspectives on watch collecting, particularly regarding women in the hobby.

Transcript

Speaker
Host Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is the 40 in 20 podcast with your hosts, Andrew, my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Everett I'm good, man. I'm good. I had kind of a fun morning, a fun family morning where we did we were engaging in a I guess you'd call it like a self help family Um, you know, it's this strength based, like, how do I become a better husband, better, uh, parent, uh, which the first thing I said is we started when we got there, they say, how did you guys get interested? Uh, how'd you guys get interested in this? And Kim kind of talked about why she was interested. We're doing it with another couple and they're friends of ours, but they're sort of beta testing their ability to be coaches. And, uh, Kim talks about, well, I just, you know, we like you guys and, and I, you know, listen to the pitch and I thought it was, it was interesting. Uh, and then it came to me and I said, well, I gotta be honest with you guys. The idea of this repulses me. And everybody kind of like looked at me for a second and then uncomfortable laughter. And then I said, well, but you know, with that said, uh, I know it's sort of, it's one of those things that once you get into, it's going to be fine. Uh, so yeah, that, that was my morning. It's, it is genuinely one of those things that once you get started, um, it's easier to engage. It's, it's much harder for me to engage in that type of thing conceptually. Uh, but once I get going, uh, you know, I don't have any trouble talking about my feelings or, or whatever. That's not a difficulty for me, which I think it is for some people, not for me, but that just the idea of getting started. Uh, I told Kim as we were driving over there, I think I'd been a little agitated and I was like, you know, this thing just raises my quills.
Andrew Mm.
Everett The idea of doing something like this triggers some fight or flight and it makes me anxious and irritated.
Host I can dig that. Yeah. How are you? Good. I went to a kid's indoor soccer practice this morning, which was like watching a bunch of four-year-olds with about 60 soccer balls run amok. Did you get arrested again? For being there? Yeah. No, I wore a fake mustache and eyeglasses.
Everett Was Mark there at least this time? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Host Well, that was my cover.
Andrew That was how I made it work.
Host Uh, so anyway, yeah, I went to that this morning and it was, uh, it was quite the, uh, quite the experience. It's definitely something I've never, uh, never thought I would, uh, observe or witness. And, uh, now that I have, I don't know that I want to again, even as much fun as he has. So I'm going to have to take him on, you know, subsequent Saturdays and watch chaos. I wish we could like padlock that door to the field from the outside. Sure. And then just bounce for like an hour and a half. Cause that was the other thing. It was crazy how long it was. It was a full 50 minute practice. The coach in there is, has patience to the ends of the earth. It's crazy. A youth soccer coach. Like eight, four year olds out there. And she just, she was just like, just chilling, hands in her pockets, wandering around, giving instructions. If they listen, they listen. If not, like fuck it, whatever. You'll be back.
Everett They're locked in here with me. Like the hardest, most thankless jobs in the world. Red Cross nurse, youth soccer coach.
Host Yeah, it was awful. And Sam was like, would you want to play indoor soccer? And I was like, I don't think so. Because the problem is I am... Sorry. I'm at an awkward level of competitive in that I have the skill set to be good at a lot of things, but not the inclination Like I have those kind of residual learned at a youth skill sets that exceed a lot of other folks my age and in practices like that or in sports like that, but just not the desire. Like I'm, I'm the one who's going to go there and like, okay, I'll go play indoor soccer, but I mostly want to drink beer. And if that's the case, then I will be on your indoor soccer team.
Everett I mean, that's how I approach everything in life at this point. Yeah. I I'm interested in that as long as I can drink too much alcohol.
Host Yeah, it doesn't have to be too much. As long as I can just have beer while I'm doing it. And if you're not, if you're going to take it too seriously, I don't want to be involved.
Everett Yeah. Cause this is a game. I'll take this job with that compensation package.
Host If I'm allowed to drink too much alcohol at work and work when I feel like it.
Everett Well, uh, uh, you know, I want to know more about how you're doing, but it's not important right now, but it's not important right now because in the wings, in the wings, we've got, uh, we've got someone on the, we've got someone on the line and, and I feel like I, we always do this, right? We, we lead up to this, we lead up to this as if the audience, as if they haven't read the title of the episode. So you already know, you already know that, uh, on the line today, uh, we've got, we've got Dan Clayton, uh, a man of many, of many names of many, uh, non diplomes, uh, most recently on Instagram timely moments. Uh, but, uh, Dan is famous, famous, I would say, in the watch world.
Host I'll accept famous. You should accept famous too, Dan.
Everett Perhaps notorious. Dan is, I would say, in terms of watch fan, engaged watch fan, one of the single most knowledgeable experts on military watches. And he's taken that knowledge. He's been on Bellingham Podcast. He's been on Two Broke Watch Snobs. I'm sure I'm missing other podcasts, but someone who's just universally known for knowing his shit when it comes to military watches. Dan, how are you?
Dan Clayton I'm good. How are you guys? Thanks for having me on and Happy New Year as well.
Everett Happy New Year to you as well. And thanks for coming on.
Dan Clayton Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Um, that was quite an introduction though, guys. I'm going to have to, you know, try and live up to that now, aren't I? You know, no pressure.
Everett You know, being a military man, you're, you're used to sort of the way we do, you know, when you get an award, they, or, or you, you know, you get promoted or something, they go back through this, you know, wow, Dan did this and they did this. And, uh, you know, or, or, uh, he served in this, in this place and, and did this job. Uh, You mostly just want it to end. You mostly want it to end.
Dan Clayton Yeah, you stop listening to the spiel, don't you, and then you forget what you need to do. Or the spiel is so in-depth, you sit there and kind of go, oh, did I actually do that? I can't remember. That can't be real. That wasn't me. That wasn't me, guys, but I'll take it.
Everett That is a really nice way to say that thing, even though that's not how I remember it. So Dan, can you just take maybe 30 seconds and introduce yourself, who you are, what you do, how you got here today with us?
Dan Clayton Okay, so yeah, obviously, my name is Dan. How I got into the whole watch collecting side of it was after I joined the military, because I needed to wear a watch. And then obviously, as you've obviously alluded to, I got quite deep into the hobby and then started reaching out across the watch fan, as it were, to get further information. And obviously through reaching out, built up different connections around the watch fan. And obviously that led us to where we are today, because obviously we've got mutual friends through AJ over at the Bellingham Podcast. That's us in a nutshell, isn't it really?
Everett I think that's right. You know, you, I think, partially cringed on the word watch fam. And I do the same thing, although it's a word we use pretty... You use. Yeah, yeah, that's right. You don't use that word, do you? I think it's a word that has value, even to the extent I find it a bit cringy, right? Because there's this idea that there's a community here, and it's this bizarre community, like many internet communities are, right? Where I kind of knew what you look like. You've got an Instagram, and occasionally you're on that Instagram, and so I had an idea. Here's this person that I feel like I know better than certainly I do know him, uh, cause I don't, we don't know each other all that well, but it's this very familiar, like there's zero discomfort. I know what you're going to sound like. I know the things you're going to talk about. So I think that watch fam as silly a word as it is, it's a hashtag ready, you know, phrase, right? Uh, as, as silly as that may sound, I think that it is powerful in that it gives us, it gives us something to describe, uh, who we are, how I know Dan, because in reality, I don't know Dan, but it gives us a way to describe our relationship.
Host You are going to have to not look at me when you're talking because my audio goes back and forth.
Dan Clayton He just wanted to look in your eyes.
Host I don't blame him because I have these really, really just deep, endless eyes. Beautiful.
Andrew That, you know, I'm mesmerized. Exactly.
Host They just pull people in. They're like a tractor beam. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to make sure that your audio is not coming in and out.
Dan Clayton Cool. No, I know what you mean by cringing at the whole watch fan thing, but another point which is quite interesting, you know, you guys obviously reserve armed forces and obviously I'm currently serving in the regulars, obviously. And I find as well that when you meet people within this watch community, as it were, Um, you bond over the whole watch thing. Uh, and then obviously if you have one other thing that you've got in common, it's a lot easier to break down those, um, those barriers as it were, isn't it? And kind of, you know, go along and communicate and all that kind of stuff. So I think the military thing also has a benefit as well. Quite obviously my experience with the watch fan, especially, you know, day to day slash in real life as it were, and, you know, not over, you know, the internet as it were, uh, or Instagram.
Everett I prefer the phrase IRL.
Dan Clayton IRL, there you go. See, I wouldn't have used that because I'm not hip and down with a kid, so I would never have known. But, you know, I've got some good friends in the military who are also into the whole watch thing. And, you know, you bond over both of them. And I think that's quite a good thing.
Host So that's from my experience anyway. Two things is common is more better in common is more better than one thing in common. Yeah. And when you're in the military, you basically have to live together. So if you can find any other component of your life, any other variable that you share in common, it's way more better.
Andrew Yeah.
Host Because military can be super isolating.
Dan Clayton Yeah. Yeah, it definitely can.
Everett You know, uh, Andrew and I are, are friends from before watches, uh, uh, you know, BW, as we refer to that period of time. Uh, we've, we've never, we've never referred to it that way.
Host We're just creating hashtags.
Everett That's the episode is creating hashtags with Dan C. You know, so our, our connections are, our, our connection is, uh, one of friends first. And then I kind of browbeat Andrew into becoming a watch person and, and, and that's fine. Uh, right. But the idea that their relationships, we've made relationships, you know, certain, certainly with AJ, um, you know, with other people in the community, um, you know, people that I've never even spoken to, right. You know, or, or we talked to EMG quite a, quite a bit. And Eric is someone that we've had on the show and, you know, these are guys that have this successful business. who have, according to Eric, and maybe this has changed, but the last time we discussed this topic with him, had never even talked to each other on the phone. Derek, Eric, and Ed have perhaps still today never talked to each other on the phone, you know. So there's this, the internet does a thing here, and our ability to mutually engage in a topic is super interesting. But that's kind of an aside. I don't think we planned on talking about that, but... It's whatever. It's our show. It's our show. It's our show. So, uh, speaking of it's our show, uh, normally when we have guests on, we say, Hey guest, uh, we've got some questions for you and we're going to, um, we're, we're going to dictate those questions and, and move through this thing at our pace.
Dan Clayton However, Dan, you, Oh, you make, you're mixing up. Yeah. You're getting the special treatment. You.
Everett Uh, you, uh, have sent us an agenda. I would say I would call it an agenda and, and I'm inclined to let you lead this conversation a little bit. Generally speaking, we, we don't really have any goals today. I think you might have some goals and, and to that end, uh, do you want to take off, take, take the lead here?
Dan Clayton Yeah, I mean, what do you want to start with? You know, you've seen the agenda, as it were, you know, the notes that, you know, I put together when we obviously were planning out this episode. So what do you what part do you want to start with?
Everett You know, I think that we can move into some specific stuff later. I think it would be a pretty neat starting point to get your unique perspective, because you've got some very peculiar and particular insight. But that's been raised and nurtured by your connection to watches so you've got some specific watch background and I think it would be super interesting for folks to learn more about that who you are and and how you how you got into watches specifically and what your experience there is.
Dan Clayton Okay so you know I've alluded you know I mean this yeah So I, uh, obviously joined the military and that's obviously our, you know, other factor between us three, you know, that, uh, links us, you know, in commonality. Um, so when I joined up, I got into the whole watch thing because obviously Google what watch to take with me through training. Um, and obviously when I Googled that, I came back with loads of different returns, you know, hundreds of thousands of returns. Um, and then the majority of them, came out to be, um, articles about vintage military watches. You know, I didn't take a vintage military watch to, um, obviously basic training and, you know, trade training and all that kind of stuff. But it was something that I kept my eye on because also the other thing that I'm interested in is, is the whole military history side of it. And I think when you join up, you, you do get indoctrinalized, you get a bit institutionalized as well into some of the history of obviously the organization that you joined. So for me, I liked the idea of collecting these watches because it kind of brought the history of, you know, some of the battles and the battle honors that you hear about and you learn about going through training almost to life. You know, it gives you a little totem to kind of say actually that potentially could have been at that location because it was made in a specific time. And, you know, we've got accounts to say that this was, you know, the kind of stuff that these, you know, soldiers, sailors, airmen used. So I guess that's what got me into it. was the idea of combining the history with something tangible, um, which, you know, it's quite cool to collect, but then also the fact that I could use it as well, you know, with different, different degrees of accuracy. Cause let's face it, some of these watches are almost 80 years old. Um, but I could still use them. I could enjoy them and impart a little bit of my own story onto them as well. So that idea for me was kind of what got me into it. My initial collection started with, you know, the general service watches to the British Army. And that's really what I started with, I wanted to collect those. Because again, I like the idea that, you know, my forebears, as it were, could have potentially been issued that watch, you know, and they were probably in very similar situations that I found myself in, in my own career today, you know, and that to me is quite a cool little niche thing that I enjoy. And then after that, it just kind of expanded, you know, I'd, you know, by, you know, I do some research on a different conflict. and find out the kind of watches that were used in those conflicts. And then obviously, I would then research those those watches to death as it were, and then rabbit hole. Yeah, exactly that. You know, you go down the rabbit hole, and you start finding things that you're Oh, that's really cool. I never thought I'd find that. And then you go on eBay, you go on forums, you go on Facebook groups, and all that kind of stuff to try and find either information, but also people who are willing to sell them or people who are already selling them because you know, it'd be quite cool to have within your own collection. And that's kind of where it, where it, you know, kind of escalated for me as it were.
Host What was the hardest watch that you have right now to hunt down?
Dan Clayton Okay. So the hardest singular watch is my Roma watch from the Rhodesian War.
Host Okay. Why was it so hard to hunt down?
Dan Clayton So firstly, there's not many of them, uh, known to collectors. Um, like all within the collecting space, I think about there's probably about 250 of them known to collectors that survived the war. That's obviously that's known to collectors. That's not to say there's 1000s of these things that are potentially in people's attics. But I found one on a auction site, which is specializes in watches as well. So this was obviously a legitimate vintage watch auction site that only specializes in obviously watch auctions and high-end jewellery. And I found it, I actually initially missed the auction itself, so it ended, and I just decided to email the company and just say, look, I've noticed in your publish, because they publish the results of the auctions of what lots sold and what ones didn't, the watch didn't sell. So for whatever reason, it didn't sell. Maybe it just wasn't the flavour of the month. And I just sent a mini file and said, look, if the seller is willing to still go through with a transaction, I'm willing to buy it. And it was just through luck that the seller was willing to sell it. And we went through that company as the mediator, because it was on their website. Unfortunately for me, I also got to pay the minimum reserve on it as well, because it was a lot that I hadn't sold. So it could only legally be sold in England for its minimum reserve.
Everett And so, you know, Andrew and I obviously know exactly what a Aroma watch is, but for those listening who don't, can you tell us what that is? And also, I'll caveat that to say, Andrew and I have no clue what you're talking about.
Dan Clayton Fantastic. So Aroma watch is just a mechanical, it's about 36 mil watch. It kind of looks like the Hamilton W10 watches. It's got that kind of weird oval case shape. on it. I mean, it's just got Arabic markers. There's really nothing special about it whatsoever, other than the fact that it has obviously the Rhodesian engraving markers on the back of it to prove that it was a military issued watch. And unlike other watches that you would have seen that obviously have been stamped in from the manufacturer, these watches were actually initially bought sterile. So they had no issue case back markings whatsoever. The only time these watches got, um, the issue markings were once they got to the Rhodesian army and they got an individual to actually get a Dremel tool and Dremel a Rhodesian issue number in the back of the case. So.
Everett Fantastic. And so these are made by Romer. Yes, they are. And Romer is a, is an English company.
Dan Clayton It's a Swiss company. Okay. Yeah. It's a Swiss company. I don't know if there's still, in production, I think they're predominantly vintage now. And, you know, I don't think they're really doing much. And if they are doing something, they're very, you know, they'll be quite fairly low end. I mean, that or they were absorbed by swatch group and probably in the in the in the courts crisis and that kind of stuff. Sure. I can't, I can't tell you, because I've never actually looked for the the modern equivalents as it were.
Host And you just looked for that, that watch specifically. That was the one. Uh, what, what brought you, what drew you to that watch specifically?
Dan Clayton Um, okay. So yeah, so I only looked for that one watch. Uh, and the only reason that I drew from that, uh, search for it specifically was cause when I went through training, I met a officer in the British army who was ex Rhodesian special forces. So, uh, back in the, like I said, back in the heyday, the end of the British Empire, as it were, Rhodesia was a British colony. And obviously what happened happened, you know, we won't go into too much detail if obviously the audience want to go and research that, they can. And there's obviously loads of accounts of the Rhodesian War, or the Bush Wars as they became known as. So when he finished his time serving with the Rhodesian Army, he transferred his commission into the British army and he, um, was a captain in the British army when we met him. So, and he just, like I said, a part of his role was to, you know, basically talk to us about his experience. So fantastic. Again, it was one of those, wasn't it, where you meet someone who's fairly interesting, you go and research what they went through, and then you find out that there's also a watch that you can find. So that's what it was.
Host And you want a piece of that history to be able to wear and enjoy.
Dan Clayton Yeah. And what was quite cool was I bought that watch probably 2016 at the time. Um, and then I was overseas, as you guys know, through obviously, um, the other podcasts and, you know, AJ referring to me as Dan in Cyprus. So I was obviously over there. Um, when I returned from Cyprus back to UK, I came back for a course, a long course to get a different qualification within the military that captain, uh, cause he was a rank of the captain. He was serving at the camp that I was doing the training at, and I went to his office, had a cup of tea with him in a meeting, and I pulled the watch out and said, do you remember these? And he did. So that was quite a cool kind of all round circle of him telling me about the watch, me going off researching it, finding one, and then bringing one back and saying, look, look what I found.
Everett And now in the Rhodesian Army as a captain, Is that the same rank that we would refer to as a captain that's a third level of officer? Yes. That's the level both Andrew and I are, and you're a captain as well, right?
Dan Clayton I'm not, no.
Everett What's your rank?
Dan Clayton I'm a corporal.
Everett Oh, so you're enlisted.
Dan Clayton Yes, I am, yeah.
Everett So you actually work.
Dan Clayton Yes, I actually work.
Everett Yeah, we don't work.
Dan Clayton Well, apparently work. I think a lot of the stuff that we do is pretending to work and getting away with it. That's the goal. That's the goal, isn't it?
Everett So we're in the same boat, right? That is the service.
Dan Clayton Yeah. Yeah, that is it, isn't it? It's having the appearance that you're busy without being too busy.
Host A guy used to work for me. He would have his computer turned off and he would just type on his keyboard and his computer would be facing the wall. You'd think he was just plugging away. And he's really working on a turned off computer. This is genius. He can spend all day doing that. This is your first sergeant, right?
Dan Clayton Yeah, he is. Promote that man because he is going far.
Andrew Yeah, he is going places.
Everett Yeah. Fantastic. Well, so I would like to know a little bit more. You actually are involved with a couple of manufacturers and companies by way of their development of their pieces. I'm fascinated by this idea. I mean, A, how you got there. And I think that the answer will probably not surprise any of us, but I don't know the answer. So why don't you tell us the answer and then tell us what that work, what that looks like for you.
Dan Clayton So when you mean development of the watches, is this going back to the Bremont thing?
Everett Well, yes, yes. So Bremont and then also there's other companies that you've spent sort of development time with too, right?
Dan Clayton Yeah, I guess so, loosely. Okay, so the Bremont thing, we'll start there. So that was the first kind of foray, as it were, into being a little bit more active than just buying watches and, you know, googling them. Effectively, I was lucky in my last unit to be surrounded, you know, be surrounded by other guys who are into watches, but also be exposed to the Bremont military special projects, as it were. So effectively, As we know, Bramont will commission a watch to commemorate your trade, your squadron, your unit. And the unit I was at at the time, there was quite a big mix of people who would kind of, you know, shuffle in and out for their various rotations. And obviously on their wrist, some of them had those watches. And, you know, you talk to them about it when they're in the bar and all that kind of stuff. And you get to have a look at them and see what they are. And I just decided, you know, I tell you what, that's That's a little bit of me that, you know, I'm already a watch nerd. I'm already looking at this kind of stuff. You know, let, let's, instead of just buying a watch, that's got a story, let's buy a watch that's personal to me. Um, and that's what I went down and did. So I emailed Ramon started that two way engagement and then seven months down the line, um, I had a watch delivered, you know, which was obviously the first one, the project that I'm, I'm heading up and I'm quite happy to say it's still a live project with them. And, um, you know, that's pretty cool. So, um, we did that, which was the first kind of foray into that kind of stuff where I had a bit more of an active involvement. And then out the back of that, um, I've obviously been, um, on other podcasts and spoken about that. And through that, a couple of other companies reached out to me and started again, another dialogue just about, you know, military watches in general, but also kind of what I thought of certain complications. So, for example, we have spoken before we recorded about Sangin Instruments. Obviously, we know that they're out of California. Out of the back of the Two Broke Watches podcast, Jake reached out to me, said he enjoyed the podcast. Obviously, we bonded on the fact that we're both military, or in his case, obviously, a retired military. And obviously, he showed me what he was developing. And then he asked me a few questions on certain things that, you know, I, you know, would I agree would be a good complication or a good, you know, thing to put into his watches. And I guess that in a way helped develop some of his models, you know, because obviously he's, you know, constantly asking for feedback or ideas generated from the kind of community that he wants his watches to go to. So I guess loosely in that regard, I helped know, at least tailor some of the ideas of what may be handy on a watch. One of them being my thoughts on dual time watches, you know, and how would it be best to represent that? Would it be, you know, a dual time bezel? Would that be handy? Or would you go and have a full GMT movement and, you know, the pros and cons of that kind of stuff? And then the other company that I've done a little bit of photography for, as it were, and kind of push them on the social media side was Vertex Watches. And obviously I got sent one of their press pieces for a period of time and just got told to enjoy it, enjoy it, take photos, and then obviously push it on social media. And that's what I did. I guess that's loosely some watch development through through this hobby.
Everett But you know, it's the kind of thing that for I think the average watch guy or gal, it's the kind of thing that is probably not afforded to us as an opportunity, right? You know, Andrew and I have had some opportunities to engage with some manufacturers on what they're doing, you know, with their product. That's been really exciting. In fact, I think for me, that's been the most satisfying part of this thing besides just sort of getting to know people. But that that relationship that you're able to form and that and that ability to have sort of a connection to a manufacturer and a connection to a certain watch piece. You know, we interviewed these guys from Notice last week, Wes and Colin, who are just both fantastic guys in their own rights, but also in terms of what they're doing with watches and what they're doing with their brand. Uh, you know, I think that maybe no, no one else sort of making watches right now that's quite as engaged and involved as them at, in terms of the brands we're, we're sort of stoked on. So really fun. But then to have them, um, be really sort of, uh, effusive with their, um, you know, ideas about how perhaps we were part of that. You know, I would be loath to expand on that idea, you know, but they talked about, well, we were listening to your skin diver episode and that really got us thinking and we want to thank you. You know, we didn't do anything, obviously.
Host No, we just complained in a basement bedroom drinking beer. Right.
Dan Clayton Yeah. But the thing is, it's funny, isn't it? How you get ideas can flow when the alcohol is flowing and all of a sudden, you know, other people will listen to it for whatever reason. I guess that's how you may or may not, you know, in, you know, in that situation, influence their decision to, you know, produce a watch in a certain way, you know, and I think that's quite cool.
Everett It's pretty, it's a pretty neat opportunity. Yeah, it's a pretty neat opportunity. And for us, it's neat to hear about. So, so you've talked about, you know, uh, I've heard you talk about, and you've talked to me directly about some of your key watch moments, you know, moments in your life that really sort of solidified your, uh, engagement in the hobby, or perhaps solidified the route your collection has taken. We've talked a little bit about your involvement with Bremont and Sangen and then Vertex, but there's also a Seiko SOG, or S-O-G, that I've heard you talk about a number of times. Can you just tell us a little bit about the Seiko SOG, what that meant to you, how you found it?
Dan Clayton Yeah, yeah, that's fine. So I I initially, I'd heard of these years ago, actually, to be honest, before I even got into watches properly. And there's a couple of friends of mine who collect military stuff in general. And their focus is on the Vietnam War. I think they just find it really interesting. So obviously, I know them very well. When I'll be on a period of leave or, you know, seeing family, obviously, I'd go down and see them. when we just talk military stuff, you know, as you would do a rebid, just, you know, general kind of interests. And through that group of people, I found out, obviously, about what MACV SOG were. And obviously, for the listeners out there who don't know, they were the American Special Forces who conducted special operations during the Vietnam War. The majority of those operations being not in Vietnam for right or wrong reasons. You know, we won't get into that. But, you know, effectively, they did cross-border long-range patrols into the jungle, um, not in Vietnam. Um, and the need for those guys in terms of their watches was that they had to have sterile watches. So, you know, they went to, um, in this case, Seiko, and obviously the story is, um, that they initially asked for Rolex watches because we know this, uh, because as we know, the special, the special forces have a bigger budget than everyone else. Give me that Rolex. Yeah, give me that Rolex because we know that you're going to buy us the best equipment. Obviously, that's what they asked for. The procurement manager, as it were, at the time, a guy called Ben Baker, he listened to them initially, effectively. However, he went out and visited the soldiers in Vietnam conducting those operations and said, right, actually, I can see you've asked for Rolex. but you're probably not going to get them even though we've got the biggest, you've got the biggest budget because they are X amount of dollars per unit. Um, what else, you know, what substitute as it were would be a happy medium because obviously we still want to give you stuff, but we can't give you a hundred hundreds of dollars worth of watch per man. And when he visited them, he noticed that the guys were already wearing Soko watches and he went, right, why do you wear those? And the answer was because it was robust, because it was shockproof, because it glowed in the dark, you know, it was waterproof. All of those things fundamentally were the same reasons why they wanted Rolexes. They just wanted Rolexes because they were being necky, you know, and they knew that they could get the best equipment.
Host And they were going to take them home when they were done.
Dan Clayton And that is exactly it, you know. However, he turned around and said, right, well, you're already wearing a Seiko, so I'm going to go knock on Seiko's door and see what we can do. And it's actually written down. I'll have to send you a link to this podcast, not podcast, a PDF, because it's interesting to read it alone. Those Soko watches he bought, obviously under that contract, direct from Soko for $8 each. Geez. Add on some inflation now and you see how much these things are going for.
Everett It's insane, you know. And so you've actually procured a number of these, right?
Dan Clayton Yes. So from the people I have spoken to, I am apparently the only person in the UK, maybe even Europe, who has all three.
Host All three? You could be the only person in the world who has all three.
Dan Clayton I would like to take that, but I can't because you guys know of that Spencer Klein, yeah?
Andrew Yeah, yep.
Dan Clayton Yeah, he's had all three at one point in another because obviously he was the one who wrote, let's say wrote, he was the one who did a video on them, all three together, outlining the histories, the years and all that kind of stuff, which actually was a fantastic bit of reference material to try and find them as I was looking for them as well.
Host So this is a perfect segue to one of the questions that I really wanted to ask is what are, I'd like to get some instruction from you as a person who has a medium to okay understanding of military watches and of vintage military watches.
Everett Can we say better than medium to okay?
Dan Clayton Can't go too high, can we?
Host I mean, I have a medium to okay.
Everett Oh, right. Yeah. Oh, so for him, who's an expert. Yeah.
Host So I'm a medium to okay knowledge. No, you have an excellent knowledge.
Dan Clayton So I would say that I'm medium to okay as well. And we're idiots. I don't want that. No, no, no. You're an expert.
Host I'm medium to okay. That's the world I'm okay living in right now. So I'm a person with a medium to okay knowledge of military watches to vintage watches. I'd like to get some education from you on getting into that world. What kinds of watches should I be looking for when I'm perusing eBay or any other kind of forums that sell watches? What do I need to keep my eyes peeled for? How do I get into this category of watch collecting? And how do I do it not like an asshole?
Dan Clayton Okay. No, that's fine. I'll kind of wrap my brain and see what we come up with. So firstly, I guess, The big thing, and this is with all watches, isn't it, is don't go over your budget, because obviously there is a lot of guys out there who will buy a really expensive watch just because, oh, you know, it's been written up to be the one, you know. So I think, firstly, obviously do your research, but also put some parameters onto it. So, for example, when I started with a whole military watch thing, there's hundreds, if not thousands of different versions on there. You know, you've got divers, you've got chronographs, you've got your triple, your three handers. all that kind of stuff. You've got, you know, all these different watches for different uses. It's finding a watch that you would, I guess, have an affinity to, you know what I mean? So obviously I went for the ones that potentially could have been issued to someone in my position before, you know, or finding one that's linked to either a hobby or an interest, you know what I mean? And kind of sticking within that. Cause if not, you can, like you said, you know, you can be here for days, you know, even months just researching. Um, and obviously when you add in a complication, these watches get more expensive. So my experience, I'd actually say that, um, stick to your budget. So set a budget and then also set what complication you want to buy. So for example, if you want to buy a diver and you will stop at nothing to buy a vintage military diver, then only look at military divers. Don't start looking at chronographs halfway through because all of a sudden, you know, you'll start finding all these other things. And like I said, that's how your costs build up on, on this hobby. So I would say as your universe expands, so does your budget. And I know that's obviously the same. And that's, that's obviously across watch collecting as a whole. Sure. Um, but I think the problem is with military watches is because they are so prevalent in certain cases, um, it can obviously spiral out of control a lot faster. Evan also, I'd also say that because the military watch trend has been increasing in the last few years, maybe even four or five years. Sellers know now what they can get away with. So they could turn around and say, well, actually this watch, just because it's got an issue date on the back, which relates to a famous war, they'll play on that issue date. So for example, if you look at any Hamilton watch that's American issued, so those GW113s or whatever, I think it's 113s, if you look at them and they've got like a 1965 to 1970s issue date, the seller will go, yes, this went to Vietnam. Obviously. You don't know that. Yeah. They don't know that. Right. You know, it's just been produced in the year that the Vietnam war was being conducted. You know, it's the same for the British watches. So if you look at the British watches on the back, you'll tend to have 19, 1980 is a big year for British issued watches because it was the first year that the British Army got a quartz watch. Before that, they were all mechanical hand wound watches or automatics. So quartz crisis came in the British Army just, you know, quartz became more accessible as a contract, you know, because obviously there was a period of time where, you know, quartz watches affected the F91Ws were more expensive than Speedmasters, which is outrageous. I want to go back to that time where I can buy a Speedmaster for less than an F91. But that's what happened. The changeover was in the 80s with quotes to the British Army, and people play on it. So the watches that were issued, or I say issued, produced with an issue date of 1982, for the British army, we went to war in the Falklands. So sellers will say this watch as worn in the Falklands. Well, no, it didn't happen like that. So I think it's what you have to look at. You have to be careful firstly with that kind of stuff, you know? Um, so they're like my caveats, but, um, in terms of watches themselves, I've got, I've noted down a few, which I would say in different price points would be good ones, you know, or good examples for obviously the audience to go out and look for. So, World War II, if you're going to go and get a World War II issued watch, people always go for the dirty dozen, don't they? Right, of course, if she doesn't. We know that they've got an investment value and they're good watches. There's no denying it. They're good watches for the time and they're nice watches even today, especially in good examples and good condition. But some of them can run into the thousands of pounds, you know what I mean? And that's insane for one watch. That's a heavy watch. If you went and bought the ATP watch, which was the predecessor versions of the Dirty Dozen, you're still getting all that heritage. You're getting a good watch and a vintage military watch at maybe a third of the price.
Andrew Really? Sure.
Dan Clayton You know what I mean? And so it's about being an informed consumer. You know what I mean?
Everett Like, do you research? You know, I think that that's sort of the backbone of Andrew and I's not just watch collecting, but sort of our very beings, is how can we get into this thing, whatever the thing may be, in a way that's thoughtful and effective, but also practical and efficient, efficient with our budgets. And I suspect, I suspect that that concept, that budget efficiency concept is perhaps more than any one thing the thing that ties people who listen to our show versus Warren and Wen podcast or even someone like Scottish Watches or Ten and Two, you know, the folks that listen to our podcast and say, I really like that podcast. It's, you know, people will say, oh, well, I like the fact that you guys are relaxed or that it's like sitting down and drinking a beer. I don't think that that is the main glue. I think that the main glue for what we'd like to do and what we'd like to provide people is this idea that you can do this hobby without shucking out $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 per piece. And that develops for both of us. I think it's developed in a certain way. And I think for each individual collector, you hit that inflection point. Yeah, of course. And you either do or you don't. But You know, we have some listeners that have been with us from the beginning, that are very, very motivated to find the best $200 watches. And that transcends their collection in time. Whereas some people start with the $150 or, you know, perhaps the the SNK, right? The SNK. So many people start with the SNK. And then before you know it, they're buying, you know, Hallios. And then next is Christopher Ward. And then Yeah, so yeah, today I've got my Rolex Explorer. And again, you know, I've
Dan Clayton I like the aesthetics of the watch. I like the history of it. It ties in with my hobbies. So I'm obviously, you guys know from following me and engaging previously, I'm also a mountaineer and rock climber. Right. I liked, I liked the connection to the whole mountains, the whole Everest piece with that watch, you know, but it wasn't an easy purchase. You know, that's a lot of money to put down onto a watch. You know what I mean? You sit there and kind of go, actually guys, is this, is this hype? you know, does, you know, is it, is it this Rolex hype that everyone likes? Or is it, am I buying this because I actually like the story behind it and I'll have a use for it? You know, fortunately for me, I was in a good position where I could afford to go in and do that, you know, but I would, yeah, it's just one of those, isn't it? Like buy, buy within your constraints and don't, don't give into, I guess the whole hype stuff which surrounds certain watches. And the problem is, is that, sellers, especially vintage watch sellers, dealers, or whatever, especially, you know, in my experience with the military watch side of it, like I said, they'll push and they'll push to try and get it in the black hole, but you want a piece of this history. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Everett And I want, I want the margin from your desire to have a piece of that history.
Dan Clayton Yeah. And exactly that. And then they're like, you can have this history, but you can have this history if you're willing to pay X amount for it.
Everett Now, Dan, I think that's a fantastic place for us to transition because, because, you know, we, We want to be respectful to our listeners and also we're bloody damn curious ourselves. I've never said bloody in my life.
Dan Clayton It's not an American phrase.
Everett It's not. So that's all you've influenced me.
Dan Clayton It's your inner Anglophile. That's right.
Everett Before you know it, I'm going to have a full accent.
Andrew Gross.
Host Not that the accent's gross, but hearing it out of your mouth would be awful. Fuck off. It would be just miserable.
Everett So maybe we can transition now into, so if I'm a guy who collects, say, $200, $300, $500, or $1,000 watches in that range, what pieces, if I want something with sort of no shit bona fides, military bona fides, within a budget that is more sort of efficient and, dare I say, grounded. Because I don't know that that's... I don't mean to put a pejorative on the more expensive watches, right? But we've talked about Bremont.
Dan Clayton And I say Bremont, but I think you say Bremont, which is... Yeah, I say Bremont, but it is actually Bremont. It's in silent T.
Everett So we're, we're, we're all fucked up. But we've talked about, uh, Vermont and we've talked about Sangin and we've talked about Vertex and, and, you know, maybe some of these more expensive, uh, certainly not expensive, but, but, uh, it's a bite of money. You know, if I want to, if I want a 300 perhaps, or a $500, uh, legitimate, uh, military watch, where should I be looking and how do I get there?
Dan Clayton Yeah. Firstly, we've obviously looked at the whole vintage piece. So, um, let's look at some actual modern ones where people just go on the internet and effectively buy them and have them delivered tomorrow. Um, so if you're looking sub $500, you know, a good watch would be the marathon navigator as a good example. You know, it's, it is, uh, a company that obviously supplies to the Canadian and the American forces, you know, some legitimacy there. It's a good solid watch. Um, I mean, I'm just looking at some of the specs on it now. So it's roughly 42 millimeters, it's 20 mil lug width, so you can obviously change your strapped out really easily. It's got a quartz movement, it's got end of life on it. And it's what's really cool. I think the coolest part of it is the fact that it's got your GTLS tritium tubes, you know, those gas tritium tubes. So it just glows, you know, and it's, it's a really good watch. And last I checked, online, there were 250 pounds.
Host You know what I mean? So I tried to buy one of those through the Army supply system and it got denied. Did it? It did. And in fairness, I was trying to buy it for me just to see if that would work and it didn't work.
Dan Clayton That's a shame. Yeah.
Host Because I can order it offline and that's not a problem. But I would have rather had it come to me through the Army supply system. I mean, you
Everett You're not talking about AFIs, you're talking about actually... Yeah, no, through like the... Yeah, actually getting it issued to you.
Host Yeah, I tried that. It didn't work. It didn't work. Yeah, well... Those procurement assholes.
Dan Clayton Yeah, exactly. I mean, I tried to get issued. So, um, I, the current issued watch, general service watch to the British army is a Pulsar. Okay. And it's made famous by, uh, I mean, we have to bring him up now, I guess. And he's probably not very popular in Britain right now, but Prince Harry, So Prince Harry is famous for wearing the Pulsar G10. That watch you can buy on eBay anywhere from like 90 quid in rougher condition right through to 150 quid in good condition and you know straps and stuff. But I tried to get that issued to me again a bit like obviously how you tried to get Navigator issued for me to yourself. and it did not work. Like to get hold of one of those issued to you is like, you know, finding an honest man in parliament. It's not going to happen.
Everett You know, I don't mean to have a little bit of a side, but I'd be interested to hear your perspective on this. I think Andrew and I basically share the same perspective, which is that when people, uh, there's this thing that happens online when people talk about, uh, military watches and, you know, I've never heard Kaz, from Two Broke Watch Stops talk about this topic specifically, but he refers often to the watch neckbeard, who's a character that he is sort of famous. Kaz has developed this character. We've tried to get neckbeard on the show in the past. He's hard to tie down. He's hard to book. But people neckbeard about military watches and invariably people get to NSN numbers and what's the British version of the NSN? Is that the G10?
Dan Clayton Yeah, so the NSN, or the issued watch, the starting of it is actually W10. W10, excuse me. So yeah, so G10 is the colloquial term, we call them G10s, because I don't know what your, so we call it a flick. So you know, the piece of paper, or the digital piece of paper that tells the military what pieces of military equipment that you have issued to you that you then have to give back. So we call that a flick. That's what's nicknamed. But the actual piece of paper, the form is called a G1098. So that is that form. There's a G1098 for Dan Clayton somewhere in the in the world of the Internet or the military Internet. And that tells the storeman what I'm entitled to have and what I already have.
Everett And in the U.S. Army, we just call this a flipple. We don't actually call it that. I would have known. A flipple is when you have something you're not supposed to have and they charge you for it. Or you don't have something you're supposed to have. It's lost. That's the charging document.
Dan Clayton So you acquired it, right?
Everett Yeah, exactly. So to get back on track, the idea that, you know, anytime a military thread on WatchuSeek or whatever, you know, people talk about NSN numbers and, you know, bottom line, Bottom line, I don't care if it's Special Forces or it's Line Infantry Units or it's, you know, someone, you know, someone on the FOB. People in a deployed environment are wearing G-Shocks, Suntos, Garmin, and Iron Man. Yeah. You know, the reality is if you want an authentic, no shit, this is what Joe is wearing, or this is what the Navy SEAL is wearing, Go get a fucking Suunto, because that's what they're wearing.
Dan Clayton Don't get a Luminox, they're definitely not wearing those.
Host Well, some wear Luminox, but on average... Because their real watch is lost.
Everett It's a Suunto, by and large.
Dan Clayton It's definitely a Suunto, so the Suunto cores are the one, aren't they? That's right. that you see across the military.
Everett And Asunto Corp is not a watch that's sort of watch fam friendly. Maybe in certain circles, but that's not a watch you seek watch. Asunto Corp is not a watch you seek watch.
Dan Clayton You'll be surprised. There is actually a watch you seek forum just for Asunto Corp.
Everett And those are the those are the people that know what the fuck they're talking about.
Host Yeah, of course.
Everett In any event, we don't care about that. We care about something different. And so it's but it's it's important for us to say that. Right. I think it's important for us to at least acknowledge the idea that there's two things happening here. There's the thing that Joe is wearing on the same wrist that's got an M16 in it, versus the watch the horological neckbeard is wearing.
Dan Clayton Yes, definitely.
Host Because I bet dollars to donuts you're probably not wearing your Explorer when you're working.
Dan Clayton No, I don't wear my Explorer when I go to work. Maybe when I'm in, maybe when I'm doing like a normal office day, if I was out, you know, in a training exercise, you know, operations or in an exterior environment, I definitely would not be wearing that. Right. And it's not because it probably wouldn't be able to handle it. It's not that at all. It's just, you know, I'd rather not take it with me.
Host You know what I mean? Yeah, because if you lose it, there's some heartache there.
Dan Clayton Yeah, exactly. You know, I'd definitely rather take, something that's cheaper, that's, you know, is just as robust, but I'm not going to cry having to replace it because I've broken it or whatever.
Host I worked with a guy last year who brought five F91Ws to a training exercise.
Dan Clayton Baller. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I remember listening to that episode. You said he kept on handing them out to different people.
Andrew Yeah. That's yeah.
Dan Clayton Yeah. Just a player right there. But yeah, no, I mean, if people want to go out and buy, an issued watch that is issued into, um, you know, I'm going to go off my experience guys, you know, I'm not going to talk too much about the American military. I've only ever worked in the British army. If they want the genuine one that has an NSN number that is sat in a store in UK for general service, you have to go out and buy the Pulsar G10. And the reason for that actually, um, is because, Funny enough, it's a because back in mid 2000s, CWC lost the contract for the G10 watch. And that's what it was, basically, not because the watches were crap or whatever, it was literally because again, it came down to budgetary restraints, and Pulsar offered a watch at a cheaper budget. The other side of it is right up until the early, early to mid 2000s, you're looking 2006, 2007, really, the G10 watches still had tritium paint on the dial.
Everett Which is dangerous.
Dan Clayton Dangerous. Yeah, exactly. It's, you know, it's mild. It's obviously a radioactive isotope. And it's not good if you lick it, you know, you will taste good. It may taste good, but you know, that's definitely a way to get out of work. So it wasn't deemed as safe. And effectively, those watches that weren't issued or had to be backloaded back into stores to be destroyed because tritium was deemed too dangerous. So they not only did they change, obviously, the supply manufacturer from CWC to Pulsar, in my experience, but also it was safer because they don't use tritium paint. You know, they use superluminova to obviously have the low light visibility on those watches.
Everett And, you know, in the United States, there's a number of Marathon watches that fit that same role, right? Marathon sort of the U.S. brand that fits that same role. So how about how about for folks that want a military watch that maybe doesn't have NSN Bonafides, but has that same, you know, so thinking in the 300 to a thousand dollar range, the same sort of authenticity without perhaps being per se authentic. Because there's a number of watches. I think Andrew and I have a couple that we really like and have talked about. But what about you?
Dan Clayton I've got two watches. I've got two watches that obviously fall under that category. We've obviously touched on them before. You've got the Sangin Instruments, which obviously has been developed by the military and influenced by the military. But at the moment, he's only got one quartz watch, which is the K2. But if you want to go more quartz, you know, straight down the line and you want to grab and go watch that has a connection to the military, I would look at Elliot Brown. So not all of their watches are military grade and have an NSN number as it were. There is one line that is military issue currently, and it has a searchable NSN number, and that's the Holton Diver's Watch. So that is on issue. However, their watches are all built to the same standard. I'm you know, water resistance, they're shockproof, they've got, they've got like internal shock mountings on the movement as well. And then you add in the fact that it's a quartz movement, which is obviously robust to shock as well anyway, by default being quartz. And also the other side of it is it looks good. You know what I mean? Like it, it looks like a good watch. Right. Um, but also like, you know, right down to their case design, which is really clever. They've got hex bolts for their, uh, instead of spring glass. they got screwing bars. Oh, really? So you're never going to lose it. You know what I mean? Um, so there's that robustness there. And obviously because the Kanford range isn't issued as it were, you get loads of different color ways, you know, so you can buy a cream dial, you can buy a blue dial, you can buy, buy a black dial with cream hands or black dial with, uh, you know, white hands or whatever. If you want to have different accent colors and you can, you know, so I would look at them for, you know, military grade, not necessarily the military issued version. Cause you know, like I said, you know, they have one watch which is issued and then they have a whole complete other range that isn't issued. And also guys, I say guys, for the ladies listening out there, they also have a ladies range, you know what I mean? And it's all accessible. You know, you're looking about 350 pounds.
Everett Well, let's run through some watches. Maybe you can give us a simple thumbs up and thumbs down and, and you know, 15, 20 seconds of, of analysis. Um, I've got a couple watches here, but we've got a couple of other watches too that sort of meet that same standard. So Hamilton Khaki Mechanical.
Dan Clayton Personally, I don't like them because they, especially that Pioneer one, that reissue, it's a nice watch, obviously, you know, it's a good watch for the money. I personally don't like the stippled dial because it's not in keeping to the originals. Also, you can buy an original Hamilton car, the W10s, which obviously the pioneer mechanicals were based on for less than retail of the new one. However, Hamilton as a whole, if you want a mechanical watch, which has military Providence, you know, loosely, because they were issued. They were issued, you know, to the American forces, they were issued to the British forces, all different guises, and they're solid watches. You know what I mean? Like, you buy a Hamilton for $350, a mechanical one, or, you know, the price, that price range, the last year of your lifetime.
Host Mm-hmm. Okay. Next. How about the HKA 1963? Or perhaps the Seagull 1963.
Everett The Seagull 63. That's a chronograph.
Host A Chinese Air Force.
Dan Clayton I've not had any experience with them, so I'm not going to pass judgment. I've heard that the seagull movement, dependent on grade, can be a little bit difficult, if that's correct to say. Finicky. Finicky, yeah. I've heard some of their earlier models had quality control issues, but I can't comment really because I've never experienced it.
Everett Okay, Seiko SNK 809.
Dan Clayton So the Seiko 5s, yeah? Yes. I think they're brilliant. You know what I mean? We talked about the Mac V Sog watches earlier. Those Seiko SNKs and that line of Seiko 5s are pretty much directly developed from the early Sportsmatic and Seiko 5 line from the 60s. Absolutely fantastic watch. And you know what? It's 80 quid. Last I checked on eBay, get a couple of straps in there on top, you know, spend 150 quid on a watch and some nicer straps to change it up. Fantastic.
Host What's the difference between a quid and a pound? You said you use them... It's like bucks.
Everett Quid is like bucks.
Host It's the same thing. All right. So how about the Bolivar Hack Automatic?
Dan Clayton Is that the reissues of like the... Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I've never seen any of the reissues other than the Moonwatch reissue. Sure. So I'm not going to comment on the exact model, but I think for the heritage in terms of obviously the fact that they did issue them and obviously they are clearly decent watches for the money now, I don't think you could go wrong. But in terms of the exact model, I've not had experience.
Everett Okay. One more. And this is one we've talked about a couple of times recently. a
Dan Clayton their name on the dial. Right. No branding on the dial. No branding. I think that's really nice. And the fact that it makes the owner impart their own story onto it, you know, and it's just a nice watch. It proves that you don't always have to have a brand to have a nice watch. Right. Um, I like that there's different colorways and I like that you can pick your handset. And also, you know, it, you know, if, if, if Matt Horanek is involved with it, you know, we know that he wrote a man and his watch, you know, he's big into the whole Houdini watch thing. Right. I don't think he's going to put his name to something that would be considered crap. But, you know, from my opinion anyway.
Everett And you know what? Those watches are beautiful. I think that that's still my favorite watch of 2019. Maybe not my favorite, but it's up there in a small list.
Dan Clayton So I also like the fact that you can engage with Serica watches and they'll get back to you.
Everett Totally.
Dan Clayton You know, I mean, I think that's an important thing.
Everett OK, so one more question and then we're going to transition. Andrew, go.
Host What watch has eluded you thus far that you've been on the hunt for that you haven't been able to get? Maybe it's a grail watch. Maybe it's a new pursuit. What is still out there that you are on the hunt for?
Dan Clayton Okay. Uh, so there's a watch that I'm still yet to get that I'd love to have. And it's eluded me despite the fact that they are everywhere. Omega Speedmaster.
Andrew Okay.
Dan Clayton It's really weird, isn't it? They're everywhere. Everywhere. You know what, I have one man. Yeah. I mean, like, just, just everywhere. And I still haven't had the, uh, opportunities that were to pull the trigger. Huh?
Everett Well, this is the sad time where we have to stop talking about watches and for the, for the sake of our wives, talk about other things. We like Andrew. I know you have some stuff because I have had the pleasure of tasting your stuff.
Host Yeah. Go. So in the last couple of weeks, I came. Well, I mean, I purchased a sausage stuffer and I've had a grinder for a very long time and I grind meat with great regularity. But I finally went ahead and decided to try making sausages, which turned out to be a little bit harder than just making ground meat. And I mean, I don't know. So I mean, there's the whole making the sausage thing. Yeah. No, I know. Not only have I seen how sausage is made, but I have a peanut butter jar of salt water in the back of my fridge filled with sausage casings that every time my wife opens the fridge, she hates. I can hear like a little, just a little dry heavey retch every time she looks into the back of the fridge. Because just Google what an empty sausage casing looks like and you'll understand. I have one of those. It looks like a condom. No, it doesn't. It looks like, well shit, it looks like intestines in a jar. So that's what's in the back of my fridge now. So anyway, I made two varieties of sausage. I made an andouille, which I spell A-N-D-O-O-I-E. Yes. Because that's how it sounds like it ought to be spelled. Andouille. And then I made just a traditional pork andouille.
Everett You write that on the package, andouille. Yeah. OK. Yeah. No, I mean, I know because I have some.
Host How else am I supposed to pick it out of my freezer? And then I also made a jalapeno and pepper jack beef sausage.
Andrew Yeah, that's delicious.
Host That I smoked. And so I learned a couple of things. Number one, first and foremost is stuff the sausage uh casing way more than you think you need to get that get it in there and when people say make sure the meat is like neck almost frozen before you start stuffing it they're not kidding it got so hard once it reached like like a like gelatinous there's some critical mass that you need yeah it's got to stay nice and cold the whole time but so so make sure it's nice and cold stuff it tighter than you think but we talked a little bit about this earlier the flavors were pretty close for the first time making sausage.
Everett Yeah, totally.
Host The andouille, I want spicier. You said you wanted more fat content.
Everett I want more fat. I want more fat. Give me that fat.
Host Which I gotta have some more of it to see, because all I did was pull off a little patty and cook the patty, and I dug it. Though I do see, thinking back on it, I see a little bit more fat content. But with the beef, I overdid the fat, I feel like. I think I got a little bit too fatty, and it's got just like a touch, like a millety, Consistency.
Everett And I don't mind that. With regards to your andouille, I cooked them in sausages, right? So the jalapeno jack, the sausage came cooked, the andouille was not cooked.
Host I'm glad you didn't get that the other way around, otherwise I would have given your whole family salmonella. I know, we've all died of botulism.
Everett No, not botulism, just salmonella. It's not a big deal. You know, my experience was that I cooked it, I sort of steamed it, and then ate them from the sausage link. I think if I had sliced and fried it, I think that might have been a more smooth transition. But the way I cooked it, it wound up being just, I wanted just a touch more fat. Okay, good to know.
Host For the next round. Next weekend I'll be making some more sausages.
Everett So if you have sausage making tips, if you're into the sausage.
Host Or recipes, because I'm looking for some good recipes, because we're also going to make pepperoni sticks here.
Everett Pepperoni sticks, yeah, that's right. So hit Andrew up, because he's the man with the meat. Hit him up, and we'll give those a try. And perhaps we'll do a tasting on the air. Ooh, we could do that.
Andrew That would be delightful.
Everett That sounds awesome. Dan, I understand you came with another thing today, at least another thing.
Dan Clayton Yeah, I did. I've got, I'm actually going to mix up very quickly, but it's still only going to be two. Okay. So I'm going to keep one of the originals and then I'm going to change one for a different submission.
Everett We call this an audible. In the States, this is an audible.
Dan Clayton Cool. So the first one then is the fighter pilot podcast. Oh, so that's something that I was going to bring into, well, you know, raise awareness of. So, Obviously, your audience listen to podcasts because otherwise we wouldn't be having a conversation like we are now. But if you're into loosely some of the stuff that we've touched on in today's episode, we talked about the military and all that kind of stuff. Give the fighter pilot podcast to listen to because what it is, is it's interviews with guys across various different militaries, predominantly militaries, but all have different insights into various aircraft. So they either operate the aircraft and their pilots, their aircrew, or they design them and all that kind of stuff. And that's just a really interesting, again, conversational podcast, but it's about a really cool topic. So they, for example, they do episodes where they specifically look at a particular kind of aircraft and they take it from its inception right through to what it's doing now, all through guys who work and live and breathe it. And I just think it's a fantastic podcast. And especially if you're into aviation or you're into the military, or you just want to learn something new, it's just a really good podcast to get involved in. Number two, slightly watch-related. Can we go watch-related? We can. Of course, man. It's allowed here. Of course. So we touched on, obviously, the whole development piece, obviously, earlier in the conversation. It's all very well me suggesting watches in the military. But if you, you know, buy a decent military watch, you also have to have a decent military strap, right? Oh, yeah. So, you know, I would say go hit up Zulu Alpha straps for your military watch straps. And tell us why. Okay, so it's a unique design, the way that the the strap Um, fastens, um, which means that you will always get the perfect fit to your own wrist. So there's none of this whole messing around with pin, uh, pin holes and pin and buckles and all that kind of stuff. Uh, it's almost like on a roller pin kind of friction based thing. So you will always get the ideal fit for what you need. Also the, um, straps have been developed by, uh, guys who have the whole outdoors slash active kind of lifestyle. And they've been tested properly, um, for that kind of stuff. Um, and also they come in set sizes. You've got 20 mil, you've got 22 different color ways. Um, and, uh, you know, Darren who runs it, um, is very approachable. He's also a watch guy and he's happy to obviously, um, help out where he can with guys. If they've got, you know, for example, a requirement to have a certain length of a strap as an example. So say, uh, I don't know, you want to wear it over a dive suit. which is actually, you know, pretty common apparently. He can make you an extra long one. You know what I mean? So stuff like that.
Everett So. Fantastic. You know, I've got another thing today, but like, like Dan, I'm going to have to do a little caveat because this is ancillary to watches. I actually let me start by saying I feel a little underqualified to talk about this, but it's a thing I wanted to talk about anyway. And so this is the end of the episode. And if you're If you're at all reticent to hear talk about women collecting watches or even perhaps some slightly progressive leanings, feel free to turn the episode off now and we'll see you next week. With that said, yeah, good. With that said, Hodinkee is obviously a famous website. Hodinkee does a series called Talking Watches in which they interview celebrities about their Watch Collections, David Robinson, Jack Nicholas, as opposed to Nicholson, and a number of other celebrities. John Mayer is, I think, probably my favorite. He's been on Talking Watches two times. I want Ellen on there. I do want Ellen on there, too. So Talking Watches had their first ever woman-focused episode this last week. And they interviewed Bethany Frankel. Bethany Frankel is an entrepreneur, as well as one of the regulars on one of the Real Housewives series, something I don't have any familiarity with. And so Hodinkee had their first woman. It was Bethany Frankel. And there's been some hubbub. I believe it. There's been some hubbub. And I think that we all, I think that we all need to sort of, as we, as we think about the collection that we have, and as we think about the collection that other people have, and as we think about what we're doing here, what are we doing here? I think we all need to be sort of thoughtful and we need to sort of sit back and look at this thing. The reason this came up is because when I watched this thing, I had some feelings. And they're feelings I'm not super proud of. Because I listened to Ten and Two's latest podcast in which they talked about this thing. And Ten and Two, Kat and Katlyn, a couple of watch people that we are very fond of, people we have a relationship with, who run, as I've said before, I think maybe one of the best, my favorite watch podcast right now is Ten and Two. And they had some perspective on this, as you imagine they may, being women. Shocker. I suspect they're both women. And it sort of took me down a peg. And I don't mean to say that I didn't like Bethany Frankel's interview, or I didn't like the episode, but I had some gut reactions, and I want to check myself And I want to take an opportunity to tell you to check yourself too. The comments on the Hodinkee video on YouTube are pretty toxic. I feel fair saying that. I think that there's a lot of things, and we don't need to label it sexism because it probably is some of that, but it doesn't need a label. I think that we all need to take a step back and think about what's happening here. You know, David Robinson is a rich person who has rich person watches, and I'm interested to hear about what he says. You know, Bethany Frankel, like her or dislike her, a watch person who has watches and tastes, and that is interesting. And to the extent that you're going to have criticisms of any person, I want to, for myself, be more mindful not just in this realm, but just in life. Because it occurred to me that something was happening to me as I watched that video that I need to fix. Maybe not fix, but I need to be aware of, right? The comments about the way she got some of her watches. Oh, she got that from a dude. Or the way she enjoyed some of her watches. Oh, this is just jewelry to her. Or the way she chose which watch she might wear for the day. You know, oh, she picks a quartz watch because it's easy. I do that shit all the time. All of those things are true for me, except for having gotten watches from ex-boyfriends. None of my ex-boyfriends gave me any watches. No, not yet. There's still time. So, you know, I don't want to... I'm soapboxing a little bit. I don't want to go over the top with the soapboxing. With that said, I want us to all sort of step back on this thing. If you've had opinions, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, right? We all have feelings, we all have opinions. I want you to think about it. For me, I can relate to these things. And I want to be open and honest about that. Most of my watches are jewelry. They all are. They're jewelry, right? There's a couple watches I have that are not, and that I don't wear like jewelry. But by and large, most of my watches are jewelry. Most of the time when I put a watch on in the morning, I don't set that watch until about 9, 30, 10 when I realize I haven't set it. Or you've missed your first meeting. Yeah, that's right. So let's be fair, let's be equitable, and also let's do a good job in being better than we are. Let's all work to be better than we are. Because I hope that Talking Watches finds another, I don't know how many of these they do a year, maybe 10 or 12, I hope that four, five, or six of those this next year are women. And I think that probably there's not quite the same pool of material there, but I would love to get more and more and more and more of that perspective. And I want us to all do a better job about not having these yucky gut reactions to that kind of thing. Ditto. Boom. Dan, thank you so much for joining us. This has been awesome. I really, really, really enjoy having you. The breadth of your knowledge, we cannot even get close to covering in an hour and 18 minutes as we sit right now. I think that you're just a really enjoyable guest, and I'm really appreciative you're here. Can you do me a favor and just tell people how to find you and how to find some of your knowledge? Take 20 seconds.
Dan Clayton Okay, well firstly, thank you for letting me come on and chatting with you guys today as well. You know, I've really enjoyed it and I hope, hopefully you can come on again or, you know, chat again in the future as we have done today. Yeah, we'll see. But if anyone wants to, you know, obviously follow me on Instagram, it's obviously timely underscore moments. Give me a follow, hit me up on there. any questions that you want to talk about my you know about what we've spoken today or if there's any further fallout on my collection or you know hints and tips just drop me a message and i'm you know i'll do my best to get back to you i will caveat it even though you guys you know class me and say that i'm an expert in military stuff it's only my opinion it's only from my own research so you know i'm also fallible and also you know if i've got something wrong today or you know want to you know give me some advice, guys, you know, just send it through because at the end of the day, we're all learning, aren't we? You know what I mean?
Host We're on 40 and 20 where mistakes are free. So.
Andrew Oh, cool.
Host They'll just send it right to us.
Everett All right. Well, Andrew, you got anything else before we wrap up today? I don't. All right. Well, thank you, Dan, for joining us. And thank you at home for joining us today for this episode of 40 and 20. Check us out on Instagram at 40 and 20. Also check out Dan at timely underscore moments. Check us out on patreon.com slash 40 and 20. If you have any inclination to support the show, it's free to go to that link and less free to support our show. But that is how we get all the support for our hosting, um, and, and the various things that we need to pay for to produce this, uh, to produce this free podcast. Don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Andrew Bye bye. you