Episode 60 - GMT World Time Revisited, With AJ Barse

Published on Wed, 18 Dec 2019 23:16:00 -0800

Synopsis

This episode discusses GMT and world time watches, exploring their history, different types, and modern options available to consumers. The hosts begin by tracing the origins of world time watches back to Louis Cottier in the 1930s, who invented the concept of a watch that could display multiple time zones simultaneously. They then discuss the evolution of GMT watches, including the Rolex GMT-Master and its connection to Pan Am airlines. The hosts also cover various world time and GMT watches from brands like Seiko, Legant, and the newly released Farer Roché world timer. Throughout the discussion, they highlight the practical uses of these watches for travelers, communication with people in different time zones, and personal preferences. The episode concludes with recommendations for affordable GMT and world time watch options from brands like Braun, Time Factors, and Binnacle.

Transcript

Speaker
Everett Hello fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is the 40 in 20 podcast with your hosts Everett and my good friend AJ. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. AJ, my man, how are you? I'm doing well. How you doing Everett? Gosh, darn it. I'm so good. I'm here. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, well, I'm going to drink a beer.
AJ Barse Ah, the tradition of the show right there.
Everett Right. The traditional cracking of the beer.
AJ Barse I can't quite do that with mine. I can crack my, my, I can clink my, my mug, I guess. I got, I got a nice, a nice tea for this evening cause we're kind of recording a little late.
Everett We are recording late, which is a perfect time for beer or tea. It's true. It's a perfect time for beer or tea. I mean, there's there's no like there's no bourbon in there or anything.
AJ Barse Well, maybe some rum now. So wait. So if I'm not Andrew, where is he?
Everett Yeah. You know, Andrew, our good friend, is taking a paternity leave. Oh, is taking a paternity leave. It's it's unpaid.
AJ Barse Oh, yeah. That's a thing.
Everett It's unpaid, but Andrew and his lovely wife, Sam, welcomed their second child into the world. Woohoo! Calvin, the young man.
AJ Barse Oh, that's a that is a dapper name right there.
Everett Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm going to call him Cal, which I assume is which I assume is OK, unless they say, hey, really don't call my kid Cal. But so far, so far, it seems fine. We went and met him when he was just, I mean, really not even a day old, which was so much fun. to go meet a new baby. I say I don't long for those days, but part of me kind of does. You know, I've got, like my, my, uh, maternal instincts all go crazy and I just, the estrogen starts flowing. I meet the little baby and yeah.
AJ Barse Yep. Yep. With a lot of that going on, I feel you, but I love getting all that going on and going, not my problem. Here you go. Good night. I'm going to go home now and get some rest.
Everett I think that's about the same for me. You know, we went out to the hospital with Kim. Kim and I went out to the hospital to meet Cal and see Andrew and Sam. We brought some beer and some like, we went to Rite Aid and bought some like $1 coffee cups, like sippy cup, plastic coffee cups, so they could ghetto style some beer in there. And that was fine, you know, with everything that's going on at the hospital and whatever. It just seems like, have a beer, you guys. So we got a big beer for them. And I don't know if they drank it or not. I assume they did. But yeah, that's good. And AJ. Yes. Our sort of third host, our honorary co-host and oftentimes guest host, thanks for coming back. Thanks for filling in. Thanks for pinch hitting, as it were.
AJ Barse Hey, anytime, have microphone, we'll travel with the lovely technology known as Skype. Right.
Everett That's Skype. I will say, my phone just came on and said, I have a 20% battery, so. Yikes. We'll see what happens. Okay. This might be a short show. Yeah, you know, maybe we'll, maybe we need to do it in two parts. I have confirmed that we're recording. Andrew's usually the backup on that. He's the one that says, hey, dum-dum, the light's still green. You know, and then we record the first 20 minutes of the show. So fortunately, we're red. We're rolling. Oh, good. Good. We're rolling. Anything interesting you want to talk about before we shift into actual watch stuff?
AJ Barse I don't know. I mean, everything on my end, collection-wise, is going great. I've got, I mean, what's on my wrist is what we're kind of talking about. So, I mean, the only acquisition I've got recently is You know, this guy right there.
Everett I know, you're a beautiful fair. So why don't you, you know, just by way of introduction for those of those of the folks at home who are listening who maybe don't know you, why don't you just do a brief introduction to yourself and who you are, where you're at, etc.
AJ Barse Yeah. So I'm A.J. Barse. I'm one half of the Bellingham podcast. I co-host a show here in Bellingham, Washington, just north of you guys. And my co-horse, Chris Powell, we're both technologists by day and freelancers. Co-horsed. Co-horsed. That's the rum talking. No, Chris and I, we've been running a show for about three, four years now. And we talk about pretty much anything that interests us, anything from a lot of outdoor stuff, Pacific Northwest culture, watches, adventuring, EDC, technology, kit, you know, all the doodly stuff, you know, all the usual good things.
Everett And, you know, in terms of your WatchFam credentials, you know, I think Bellingham Podcast, while not being a Watch-specific podcast, has roots in the Watch community, but you've also done some Watch-specific podcasting as part of the Bellingham Podcast, and you have some projects, too. Some people will know about these, but can you talk about it just real quickly?
AJ Barse Yeah, so I would say we're watch adjacent. We kind of focus on much like when we talk about any type of technology, we focus on the tool part. And that's kind of where watches kind of comes in into the show for watch fam cred. I'm a modder, so I've done some watch modding and I'm also the analog explorer. So about actually this my anniversary one year ago, I did a photo project called the Analog Explorer. It was a magazine, my first foray in producing a magazine. and did a short, small run.
AJ Barse I've got a signed copy, yeah. Yeah, you have one of the Skookum editions. And so anyway, that was really fun. And then out of that, I decided to... with the belly and podcast, we actually did a sponsored series called the analog explorer. And so we took on five folks within the watch fam that I kind of feel are heavy hitters, but kind of the unsung stories within the watch fam. So we had Dan over in the UK. I mean, he's he's kind of the tried and true guy of all things British military.
Everett Dan CY, what's his Instagram handle?
AJ Barse He just got a new one. It's a timely. Oh man, I'm blanking on it right now. Timely moments or moment. Oh, bummer. I should have had it up. He just, he just changed it. But, uh, so anyway, I'll get back to Dan. So Dan, uh, over in the UK, of course, Terry over at Toxic Natos. Sure. Uh, and then we had Elena. She was out, she's a actual watchmaker out of Seattle, Washington. Yeah. And, uh, we had, let's see, We had buying on time out of North Carolina. He's a vintage watch. Bull of a guru. Bull of a nut. And yeah, restores these beauties and sells them. And who am I missing? Did you do? Was there five of them or just four? No, there was five. And I didn't want to order.
Everett So, you know, someone got this short. I'm sorry, whoever you are. Oh, no, AJ. It looks like you've frozen.
AJ Barse I was trying to sing. Yeah. Oh, no. Am I back? You're back. Come back, baby. Come back. OK, cool. I was like, oh, good, because nobody wants to hear my singing.
Everett But I mean, Hall and Oates, though, we can do it. We can deal.
AJ Barse But oh, oh, and Eric over at EA8. That's who. Oh, gosh darn it, Eric.
Everett Poor Eric. I love that guy. Probably my favorite Watch Fam dude, so.
AJ Barse Yeah. So anyway, so yeah, we did that and that turned out to be a separate series that may come back in the future. And yeah, so I mean, I just I tinker. I'm solidly a tinkerer.
Everett Yeah, sure. And you've got you've got quite a bit of experience in modding, but today we're not going to talk about modding. Nope. I think the last time we had you on, we talked about modding, we talked about companies that you may be looking at and watch projects and which watches are good hosts for modding. But this time, we're actually going to revisit a topic that Andrew and I talked about a period of time ago. We're going to revisit it. We're going to rehash some of the same material, but also talk about some watches, some goodies, some stuff to buy. So we are talking today about the sort of category, the double category, I think you could call it, of GMT slash world time watches. And this was your idea.
AJ Barse Yeah. Largely because I have a brand new world time. Well, I have two new world timers, but a brand, brand new one on my wrist, courtesy of my wife.
Everett Which is just absolutely fantastic. A really fantastic watch. But wait, we'll wait. I'm waiting. We'll wait. Let's start. Let's start and do some. So now that I've successfully done the intro for the second time ever. We've talked about sort of Andrew's baby. That was on the topics. We've talked about who the heck you are, AJ Barse. Let's go back. So I'm actually probably, if you're okay with it, I'm going to let our co-host lead a little bit because you did some really good research for this episode. You did some good research and I'd love to get some of your thoughts on this and I'll provide color because that's what I do. Okay. But yeah, why don't you take it from the top?
AJ Barse Okay. So where I wanted to start is actually, so whenever we talk about GMTs or world timers or whatever, immediately people, there's like entrenched camps. And it's funny because you have people, especially GMT folks that are like, Oh, it's, is it a callers GMT? Is it a flyers GMT? Is it a mishmash GMT? Whatever. And out of that, I kind of, I don't know, like, I kind of, for me, I like to see the history of things because personally, I don't really care. I mean, uh, I can appreciate the horological value of, of what the movement can do if it jumps on the hour or whatnot, but not knowing kind of where we came from before we got the Rolex, let's face it, that's usually the movement that's usually references the Rolex GMT Master or Master II. We kind of have to rewind in time, because before we had GMT, world timers were actually the, quote, dual time zone watches. And if you rewind way back, you stumble across a watchmaker by the name of Louis Cotillier. And my French is bad, so my apologies if you have any French listeners.
Everett Yeah, yeah. And you know what? I read it as Cotier.
AJ Barse Cotier. Yeah, no. Louis Cotier. It's Cotier and not Cartier. It's an O in his last name. He's a different person. A totally different person. Yes. Yes. But, uh, but Luis is, I mean, he's a badass. If you look at his CV, uh, he was born in the, uh, the, the wonderful era of 1894. And I believe his father, I don't have this in the show notes, but if I recall, his father was also a watchmaker and automata designer back in the day. So like those cool, um, those cool like mechanical robots type of thing. Right. I believe his father was into that. So, that's kind of how we got his start from what I understand. When we fast forward to the 1930s, that's when like Cotillier actually kind of brought forward this new concept of, and again my French is bad, Hores Universales, basically means universal hours.
Everett I think I find with French, if you just, if you just gloss over the whole word, you just universe.
AJ Barse Universe. Yeah.
Everett I think that's the right way. Yeah. You just barely pronounce it. Just universe.
AJ Barse Heavy on the vowels. Universe or world time basically is what he was trying to discover. And he figured it was normal three handers, right?
Everett Yeah, you cut out a little bit. That's okay. So, yeah, a three-hand watch.
AJ Barse Yeah, so we got normal three-handers, and he figured, hey, if I could get... If I could figure out a way to have a track go around the watch with designated cities that line up with certain zones, and if I had a 24-hour wheel attached to that movement, well, the wearer would be able to sync local time and sink the outer edge of the ring to their local city and the 24-hour time in the inside would be able to track all the other time zones around that local time, right? So that's what he figured out. So when you look at the original world timers back in the 30s, 1930s, and world timers were being used. Pocket watches predominantly then moved up in obviously into wristwatches as they became more hip.
Everett Have you, I mean, have you seen one of these operate? Because reading the descriptions, it's a little bit tough to understand, but the cities actually move backwards.
AJ Barse Yeah. So it's counter, well, I think it's the cities, you can go bi-directional. It's the hour in the inside that counts counterclockwise, I think is how the movement originally worked. Which I think is similar to like the ETA 2893 world time movement. Right. But so with with regards to the inset disc, but it was it was a novel concept when, you know, basically on your wrist, you now not only had local time, but then you could see all the other, you know, major time zones around the world. Again, that's before all that happened was way before Rolex ever came out with a GMT Master. So when we look at this, so where did Cotillet go with this? I mean, obviously 1930s, this homie totally knocked out of the park with this type of complication. Well, one year after the world time complication debuted, ever heard of Vacheron Constantin?
Everett Is that a watch company?
AJ Barse Yeah, I think that's a watch company. I think they're in Switzerland. I think they're a big deal. They commissioned him in 1932 to build the reference 3372 and two other movement references, a 3650 and a 3638 between 1932 and 1936. And as wristwatches started to kind of pick up over pocket watches, you know, those hip new things. Those weird things. Those weird things, you know, is Apple before Apple, right? Patek Philippe also approached Cotier to produce the first world timer wristwatch in 1937 for Patek. So yeah, so this guy, you know, kind of figured out, kind of solved for X, right? We've got a method of being able to sync up local time, city times, around 24 hour time zone. And fast forward again, we've got, there's something else actually that kind of jumps in there and I forgot to mention, which is 1884, the International Meridian Conference in Washington, D.C. established what Greenwich Mean Time would be. And in 1929, all the major cities adopted that because without that, you know, obviously there's no way for somebody to sync up that outer 24-hour bezel. because nobody had a standardized time zoning. So there's a good history lesson.
Everett Yeah. And you know what? I think that it's easy to sort of, you know, maybe forgive me for suggesting that a world time is not quite as in vogue or perhaps as popular as a GMT. So I think that this history It's easy to sort of discount or gloss over this history in the grand scheme of things, but really, really 1930, this is the background behind any of these dual time watches, right? And I think that was your point when you started, but this is where we started. I think it's really easy to move forward to these GMT, Rolex, Pan Am collaboration watches.
AJ Barse Yeah.
Everett And I'd say, well, this is the history, but without without these world time watches, we maybe don't get there, or certainly we don't get there in the same, in the same path.
AJ Barse No. And on top of that, I mean, this is before like all of that happened before jet travel.
Everett Like you're taking, you're taking a steamer across the Atlantic, you know, just pretty neat to think about that idea that we go back in time pre GMT to actually develop the, the history of GMTs, and not in sort of an oblique way like, oh, really, you need to go back in time to the sundial, but in a more direct influence to that category of watches.
AJ Barse Yeah. Well, I mean, it sets the tone. So you've, you've got, you've got, you've got this guy who's just at the turn of the century, you know, with the, the, the urological background, you know, that, that kind of developed the fact that this movement came about at the same time that GMT was established and then adopted that led everything up to the, uh, the hysteria that is GMT movement. Right. Uh, we've got, we've got 1952. Okay. The first intercontinental passenger jet flight from England to South Africa. And that opened up the jet age. And so Pan Am reached out or I don't know who reached out to who, I don't know if it's Rolex, uh, established it.
Everett It was Pan Am reached out to Rolex.
AJ Barse Okay. So Pan Am, Pan Am reached out to Rolex and was like, yo, we are, we're jet setting now. Uh, our pilots are having problems, you know, track in a time zone from when they leave to where they're going, whatever. And thus Rolex created in, I think it was around 1954 is when when Rolex kind of established the Rolex GMT Master, right? And so this allowed them to have a watch for pilots to be able to use on the fly by setting either a bezel, but also a fourth hand on the dial that they could sync up to a second time zone or sync it up to GMT now that that's been established. Now, what's funny about that is that was 1954-ish. 1953, Glycine introduces the Airman, which is a 24-hour dialed watch with a bezel on the outside. So you could do the same thing with a dual 24-hour display.
Everett Right. This is like the space pen versus the Russian pencil. Right. Right.
AJ Barse So and if you think about how the glycine did it, you know, you don't you have a standard movement. It's basically a three hand movement for lack of better terms. But instead of it being displayed in 12 hours, they were slowed down and geared down so they could do a sweep around the dial for 24. And having a secondary bezel, you could do this effectively the same thing. Rolex just decided to build it into the movement so that you would have a slaved hand. And that's the part that I find funny is those original Rolex GMT Masters, it was a slaved fourth hand. So it wasn't a jumping hour, you know, anything like it is today. Is that a pilot's GMT? I would say it is seeing that Pan Am was, you know, Rolex tested and Pan Am approved. So so, you know, knowing that that that's the history, you know, I don't think anybody should get hung up on the fact that if you have, you know, what is a quote, a true GMT? Well, it's any watch that tracks whatever other time zone or time zones that you need. Remember, it's a tool. You know, if you need if you need something that has it built into the movement, for whatever reason, then go for it. I think the benefit of having it outside of the movement, like what Glycine was trying to do, is it's one less complication that can foul.
Everett Yeah, it's not going to break. If it does break, it doesn't break anything else. Right. All my bezels stuck.
AJ Barse Yep. Oh, oh, yeah. Pop it off and put a little bit of silicone grease, call it a day. Uh, so I, I find that kind of an interesting juxtaposition. So of course, without further ado, that's Rolex, the Rolex GMT master, right? That's the six, six, five, four, two use the caliber, uh, 10 36. And, uh, that movement used a slaved our hand for the, the quote, the GMT hand. Um, now, What's also cool about this is, is that you've got other, other watches that will come out later that uses kind of a similar aesthetic, like Seiko, uh, later in, in the 1970s, kind of revisited that concept, but put it in a different form factor. That wasn't a kind of a dive watch inspired case with a pilot's movement, you know, cause you know, having, having that type of case isn't really a flyers watch, you know, it's not like a Flieger or anything. Um, but, uh, It was the GMT Master 2, which was introduced in 1983. Rolex gained the quick set hour hand, allowing the GMT and the hour hands can be set independently, which is really skookum, right? You know, now you're able to not only set your GMT hand on a different designation and then also set your local time without having it slaved to the hour hand.
Everett Now, skookum, skookum, just just a quick aside. You know where I'm going with this. You know where I'm going with this. So, skookum is a word that means something. It's not an English word. This is a... What's the tribe? It's Chinook jargon. It's Chinook jargon for, like, really fucking cool.
AJ Barse It's really... Yeah, it's really good. It's really... Yes, it's really, really, really fucking cool. I forget I can swear on your podcast.
Everett You can. You can swear all you want. No FCC. Uh, at least that we know of. Uh, however, for, uh, a number of young lads that, and, and, and lasses that went through Warrior Forge or LDAC as it was called when I went, uh, but the officer training school in Fort Lewis, or just people who have trained in Fort Lewis, Skookum means something very different, AJ. Uh, Skookum. Yes. That is not the skookum I was referring to. Is the brand of port-a-potties. No, no it does not. So when we talk about a skookum, so there's a, you know, hey, I need to hit the skookum. Or, hey, we've been hiking for, you know, 17 hours, have you seen a skookum? Or, don't do that there, find a skookum. Or, the fabled mythical Skookum love, which is a thing that apparently happens, not the same thing.
AJ Barse No, no. For all intents and purposes, for this podcast and any other reference to Skookum, it will mean really dope shit. That is what I'm going to claim it as.
Everett Let me be clear. It is cool, right? All of a sudden we've introduced this Skookum Independent hand, right? And truly independent, not slaved in any way, completely independent. Maybe slaved in some ways, right? Still slave to the sort of underlying timekeeping mechanism, but independent of the hour-minute hand, or perhaps independent of at least the hour hand.
AJ Barse Right, right. And I think that kind of harps back to like we were talking about with, um, uh, Cotier is that like, you know, he, when he built his movement, you know, he had envisioned the secondary disc that would count for this other time zone. And that's basically what the hand is doing. The only difference is it's, you have a track that is just one through 24, right? As opposed to Cotier who's like, okay, instead of having the the outside ring have the 24-hour designator. Let's put the cities there and that way you can map it up for all of the time zones. But I mean, what's interesting about this is that you've got Rolex that kind of, a little bit skewed, is kind of pulling back from, again, the horology that preceded it, which would technically be the world time, right? Right. And that's kind of where I wanted to just kind of end because basically from the 80s forward, we're just getting uh... Do one thing and one thing. Well, are you trying to track a second time zone or are you trying to track all the time zones for whatever reason you need them to do?
Everett Yeah. So so maybe 30 seconds or less, if you can, AJ, because I've got two questions for you. One of those, the difference between a callers or a pilots or a jumping our GMT. What's the difference there? Practically, how might it affect me?
AJ Barse So basically you're able to, on a, on a, on a, what a lot of people call is a true GMT is that when you're, when you land in your new time zone, you can change the hour hand and it doesn't change anything else on the, the, the, the watch. So you don't lose any time. Um, all the other things are set. It just jumps on the hour. Um, as opposed to like when you'd slaved, if you have to move that slaved hour, well you're changing both the local and your, your, Time zone or GMT that you're tracking at the same time. So you have to kind of like edge it forward and then maybe like a lot of the seagull movements that are GMT based, you'll have to set it forward and then you have to wind your local time back so that that hand stays on that zone. Sure. I mean, that's for me. That's the reason why, like a lot of the times if you're if you're going that route, I'd prefer to have a bezel because that way, at least with a slaved hand, it's set. And all you have to do is spin a bezel and you don't lose any time, you know, kind of like the same way that the Glycine Airman originally kind of thought out. Right. Set it, forget it and just move a bezel because the least amount of friction to be able to track through your secondary time zone when you land.
Everett And there's some orientation, probably some some visual orientation memory, right? You've got to get used to... Now if I turn my head 35 degrees to the left, oh yeah, it's two o'clock back home. Okay, so speaking of it's two o'clock back home, what do you think, what do you think, and I might have some thoughts here too, but what do you think is the actual use today for a GMT or perhaps a world time watch? How are these practical for folks in life. Obviously, for pilots, they're going to be practical in a certain manifestation of their career, right? I'm going to be landing in Honolulu for two hours, and then later I'm going to go to Atlanta, and then maybe I'll finish up in Orlando or whatever, right? Yeah, yeah. But for someone who doesn't have a time zone hopping, jet setting career, I mean, how can this be practical?
AJ Barse Right. So I'm, I'm not that I'm not, I would love to be the jet set type. Catch me if you can. Right. No, uh, not me for me. It's communication. Uh, I mean, I have friends all around the world, like the, like at the top of the show, we were talking about, like, I talked to Dan in the UK. I have friends in France. I have. You know, I used to have a sister-in-law in Indonesia, you know, and having for me having a GMT, uh, didn't make sense. Um, because I had so many people in different time zones. That's why for years I was lusting after a, a world timer that kind of fit one, my aesthetic into my lifestyle. Um, and I went through lots of different GMTs. Um, I had a, I had a Ingersoll, which used to be an American brand, but is now owned by a British conglomerate and uses, um, seagull based movements, um, or seagull based or Miyota. I can't remember which ones they use now, but, um, I had one of those and it was this big Horkin Ingersoll Lawrence, um, like, I swear it was like probably like 46 millimeters. 14 or 15 millimeters thick. It was a big Horkin, um, almost looked like a, like a, like a, like a chrono fighter or, or, uh, uh, Hanhart style watch. Sure. And it was big and had wrist presence and it was great. Uh, and I, that was kind of my first foray into, into a GMT where it had that slaved hand. Uh, just, I realized that Horkin of a watch doesn't work for me. Uh, yeah. Right. You know, um,
Everett As many people realize early on in the watch, in the watch collecting game.
AJ Barse Yeah. You know, I, I was, I, you know, I, I saw some, some Panerais and I was like, I like that big aesthetic, you know, and then once you have it on wrist for quite a while, you realize getting it under motorcycle leathers, in my case, it kind of got a little bit difficult. Um, but you know, I, you know, I, I liked having that second time zone tracking cause I could, you know, uh, follow my buddy, uh, Dan, who's in the Navy. He was stationed over in Japan. You know, when do I sync up to call him because he's 14 hours ahead or whatever? You know, uh, I, I see it as a communication tool, um, or a business tool. Yep. That would be it. Yep. That big Horkin thing.
Everett Great legible. I like the, the, uh, pushers on that big sort of citizen like pushers.
AJ Barse Yeah. Yeah. No, it was, it was great. The, so the, the, the dial is kind of that, um, like I said, that chrono fighter style, um, not a Fleeger, but very aviation centric, uh, dial legible as all get out. And the details that they put into it was actually pretty, pretty killer. The, the, um, the date window, uh, actually in between the dial and the movement actually had another piece of glass. So it wasn't fire. Yeah, but it wasn't on the crystal.
Everett Yeah, I can see it. That's cool.
AJ Barse Yeah, it was, like I said, they put a lot of detail into it for being a kind of a more low end watch.
Everett 185 bucks or so, right?
AJ Barse Yeah. I think I bought it for like two something at the time. And, you know, it had a basic calendar function, that seagull movement. You actually, the red pusher, actually, you have to advance the, I think, the day of the week by hand. It was a weird movement. It's seagull, whatever. Uh, but you know, it got me kind of, you know, kind of using it as a tool and, and, you know, of course, much like all of us, once I got done with it, I flipped it, it found a new home. And then I started looking for, um, I looked at vintage stuff, honestly, cause I really liked, you know, that the smaller form factor, et cetera. And, uh, I found Seiko back in the day, did some killer world time in GMT.
Everett that they don't bring forward. And they still do. I mean, Seiko has so many neat world time and GMT watches right now, even.
AJ Barse Yeah. So, so, yeah. So they, they do with regards to like, um, they, they, they have like the, the, the grand Seiko stuff, right? The spring, I think there's a spring drive GMT. There's a kinetic one that's in one of the, the dive, like the shrouded diver.
Everett I can't think of what, what the, yeah, I know what you're talking about. That big tuna sun GMT. Yep.
AJ Barse Yep, exactly. And that's all well and good. But like, really, there's not a there's no like Seiko automatic mortal priced mortal size, right? So yeah, I mean, I mean, mortal size, because those spring drives, you know, they can get pretty horkin on the wrist. Meanwhile, if you look at it, Seiko's history back in the 70s, you know, and even the the late 60s, They had an entire suite of world timers and navigator timers for GMTs that went by the 6117 movement. So you had the Seiko 6117-8000, which I call the OG Seiko navigator timer. It had a bezel on the outside. slaved GMT hand, you know, you're able to, you were able to do basically what the original Pan Am one, um, was kind of designed at. And, uh, the 6117-8000, you know, that one moved into, um, I think it was the six or I guess it would, it would go into mine that I've got, which is the 6117-6410. And, um, It's basically the same concept, except the bezel is on the inside. Right. And it's all driven by one single crown, which is, you know, tilted to the side, kind of like the SKX, right? And I love this thing.
Everett You know, it's... This is actually your first watch. First GMT. This is your first watch for Parley today.
AJ Barse Oh, for. Yes. Yes. For. Yeah. Actually, on the show, in my hands right now. Yes.
Everett So the Seiko 6117, 6410 is what you have. That's the world time version of this. And this is a 60s. This is a 1960 Seiko.
AJ Barse Oh, no. So the 6410 is the Navigator timer, which is what I've got. The 6400 is the world timer variant that you see on Instagram a lot. That's the one that's got the black linen, the silver linen and the world time bezel around. It's the same case and the same, uh, basically the same movement, same, everything is just different. Uh, actually I guess it's, it's a, I think it's a slightly different case than I think about it. Um, yeah, it might be a slightly different case, but same form factor, kind of a cushion style case, you know, um, like a, kind of like a turtle, but not. And, and so these are automatic. Yep. They're all automatic and slaved, uh, slaved GMT hand. And the reason why I like the Navigator Timer version versus the Passive World Timer is, again, you just spin the crown in this case, because it's got an internal bezel, and you can just set it and forget it like a normal GMT. If you have to change the time, you know, let's say you land, because you are jet setting, whatever, you set your time. Sure, it moves your slaved hand, but just like an original GMT Master, you just move the bezel and you're all done. Right. um, I just, I like the simplicity of it and I wish, I wish they would bring it back.
Everett Right. Or, or you, or you just keep it depending on the length of your trip and figure out how to tell time on your, off your GMT time.
AJ Barse Sure.
Everett Off your 24 hour hand.
AJ Barse Sure. And that gets it. So, and that brings up another point. So the seventies, I love the funk of the seventies, man, when it comes to watches, you know, like, so you had department store brands back in the day, you had Montgomery and ward that would commission watches from, uh, Legant and stuff. And that was the, the, the kind of the second one that I've brought onto the show for today is, and you've seen this one in person.
Everett I brought it down to Portland. Yeah. It's a neat watch. I love the dial on this thing.
AJ Barse So I've got and I'll shoot you links for the show, but Legant, the Legant QS Automatic World Time Skin Diver, kind of the same style of case. I think it's 40 or 40 and a half, but it is just a standard three hander with a Day-Date window. Matter of fact, if you crack the movement on this thing, it would look similar to like an SKX, like the 7S26.
Everett Yeah, right, right. Really utilitarian. In fact, didn't Seiko make some of these movements?
AJ Barse So kind of, Hamazegawa, I might be messing up the name of that one, was a company that Seiko acquired later during the quartz crisis. So this is actually a pre-Seiko owned Hamazawa movement.
Everett Oh, I see. So not really Seiko at all, but a company that Seiko would later acquire.
AJ Barse Right, right. And so like when you look at this and I cracked the back on it and took a look and it does, it looks a lot like a 7S26. Um, so this world timer is really fun because it's got, uh, it's got three, uh, 12, six and nine on the dial, but also has a chapter ring that has the 24 hour equivalent. So 12, it's got 24, one's got 13, you know, quote military time for when it's in the afternoon. And then there's the bezel. The bezel on the outside is bi-directional and it has 12 cities. So this is a passive world timer where basically you have your time, you know, on the dial. you set whatever the time is, uh, on local time. So for instance, I'm, I'd be LA in this case, and I would set it to the time and I can then count on the dial, whether if I knew that they're ahead or behind me and I can tell what, what their time is without even having a movement complication. And these passive world timers, they were kind of, you saw them a lot on skin divers, um, like Walbrook, uh, Douglas, um, Legant, A lot of department store brands sourced this type of thing because it got you kind of that jet set vibe without the cost. I mean, these were low cost, automatic watches that you could easily buy.
Everett Just a printed rehat or chapter ring, basically.
AJ Barse Yeah, pretty much. What was cool about Legant, which was featured at Montgomery Ward, which was a department store here in the United States, during its era, it had three different variants. So like the early earliest version of this that I found had a Swiss handwine movement in it, uh, which is kind of fun and funky that then it was later replaced by a Swiss Rhonda matic. Um, and those ones, uh, those ones you'll usually find on like the, the, the bay for a little bit more, for some reason, they're more coveted. Personally, I like the Japanese version. Um, they're usually, you find them a little bit cleaner and the cases are a little bit cleaner. Um, and from what I, I, this thing pretty much looks like it, it, it was worn probably twice in the seventies and was put in a sock drawer and then I got it.
Everett Yeah, it's pristine. Totally pristine.
AJ Barse And that's usually what I find when I find the Japanese versions of this.
Everett And this thing was probably 60 bucks in 1978 or whatever.
AJ Barse Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably every bit of that. I haven't. I'd like to find an ad for this, honestly, and kind of get it on my wall. I think it's going to be kind of fun. So anyway, that's the Legant and the Seiko that I have. And then and then I've got the the most recent edition, which is the Fair Roche, which is their new world timer that got announced about a month ago.
Everett Let's talk about this thing, because it is a total freaking stunner, dude.
AJ Barse Yeah. So the the Rocher, it was what's funny about this is. So I. It's different than Ferrero Rocher, right? Oh, very, very much. There's no chocolate on this, but no chocolate, no chocolate. But there's a lot of loom. Yeah. A lot of loom, loom for days, loom.
Everett So, you know, Ferrer is a is a brand that I don't think we've talked about on the show. And some of that probably has to do with the price point. I know we've talked about one or two of these watches, but tell some folks what Farer is, because I think it's a neat brand, and we just don't know it. Oh yeah, look at that. It's just glowing.
AJ Barse Yeah, so Farer, they're based out of the UK. I guess they qualify as like an independent or micro brand, and they're very adventure-inspired watches.
Everett You can say micro brand on this show. Okay. It's not a pejorative on this show. Okay. Not a bad word.
AJ Barse Okay, so they're based out of the UK, they're a micro-brand, and usually they use ETA movements, and their design is just killer. Very utilitarian, very legible. Anytime that I see any of these watches, I just immediately go, Oh man, I could see that. I could see that on my wrist, driving my truck, going up to church mountain, Winchester mountain, whatever. And I've been tracking them for forever because I like, um, they have a, a GMT, the Lander two, um, that just is killer. It's got that cool blue green dial. Sure.
Everett Um, that's probably the most popular watch I would say.
AJ Barse Probably easily. I mean, it's 39 and a half millimeters. It's 10 millimeters deep. They use a 28932, all top grade movement, you know, Perlage, everything, whole nine yards. I think they run about just under 1500 bucks, depending on what strap you get on it. And I just, I keep watching and keep watching and I go, gosh, I can't go to GMT. works great for when, you know, I've got a buddy who's deployed or whatever, I need to track what time zone he's in. But I really need, I want a real world timer that I can track multiple time zones so I can keep tabs on everybody that I try to connect with. And all the other world timers I would find, you know, Patek Philippe or, you know, Vacheron or And when I look at those kind of watches, they're very, I call it, they're very business class watches. And I don't mean that as a bad thing, but I don't... Even when I travel, I'm not business class. I afford what I can and then when I land, I'm usually trekking or I'm backpacking or I'm a lot more active. And those watches, I'd be afraid. I mean, door check in and I don't know if they would last on personally. It just that's not not my style.
Everett You want something that you can wear and not and not be.
AJ Barse Not worry about it.
Everett Yeah. It's a it's a tool. You know, I like I like Farrah. I think where they are in terms of price is fine. Right. You know, they're sort of they live in that same world as Christopher Ward. Yeah, totally. You know, or or perhaps, you know, or perhaps some of these, you know, more dedicated consumer grade Swiss brands. But in any event, I think that the coolest thing about Ferrer is just their design biology, right? They've got, their design DNA is so distinct. I actually sort of put them in the same class as Nomos, not in terms of quality or whatever, but just in terms When you see a Nomos, you're like, that's a Nomos. It's a Nomos. Yep. I feel the same way about Ferrer, right? That's a Ferrer.
AJ Barse Yeah, I totally. I mean, you look at it and it doesn't look like it cribs off. It pays respect to probably British watch design. But you look at it and it's pretty distinct. Like you look at it and it goes, I don't see any Patek. I don't see any Vacheron. I don't see anything. It's their own design language. Uh, all of their watches, uh, has usually a name that's referenced to a, an adventure or a ship or an excursion or something. So the Roche was, was a, was a, a ship that found, um, the Island of Georgia. And, uh, it's, that's the story behind the Roche. For me, uh, my wife and I got, got married on San Juan Island here in Washington at Roche Harbor. So that was kind of our kind of our little tongue in cheek version of why my wife bought this for me. I like but but I mean, realistically, what's what's cool about this is so so let me rewind. So I follow fair because I won. Their photography is great. The photographers that they have for their stuff is just they nail it out of the park. And my wife even likes some of the stuff that they produce. And she's like, oh, it's close, but just it's not it's not it's missing this thing. So they teased about a month ago a red rotor and it says coming soon and it just said world time. And I just showed it to my wife and I go, if this is what I think it is, this is going to have to be something we're going to have to get. And she goes, okay, okay, okay, whatever. You know, the next morning, the next morning, the minute they announced it, I sent it to my wife and this is the part that I didn't know. I sent it to my wife and I go, Oh my gosh, this is the world timer I've been dreaming of. It's a pretty steep price point. You know, it's like $1,500 or $1,600. But this is my, for me, this is my one and only world timer. Like this is it. I mean, it's, it's adventure inspired. It's got a 100 meter water resistance. I'm going to get an amen from you. Amen. Uh, it does not have a screw down crown. Fine. Uh, but You know, it's got an exhibition back so you can see the back of the movement. It's got a secondary crown at 10 o'clock so you can sync the 24-hour zones, kind of paying again homage back up to our main man at the top of the show, Cartier. And the inside of the movement has an ETA. It's a 2893 dash. And I always get the dashes mixed up because one's the GMT and one is the world time. So this would be the 2893-1.
Everett Dash one is the world time. Yeah.
AJ Barse Yep. And and that has the the 24 hour disk in the center. So basically I set the the time local time by the the main crown. I can set my 24 hour time by the crown and I can resync my time zones. But it's an active world timer as the hours tick. It also ticks that that center disk. And that's everything I've ever wanted. You know, um, I've even, the moment I got this, uh, it, it kind of went on a very wet excursion. So I can, I can honestly say that 100 meters water resistance definitely got tested. Thank you for putting very sturdy gaskets in this. Um, but what I didn't know is, is when I sent that, I was like, Oh my gosh, hon, this, this would be it. She literally ordered it then on the spot, literally any serial number I wanted. Like she just, she had it. And yeah, so I mean, so she got it and it was a big surprise for me and I didn't have it for when I met you. Otherwise, I'd have it.
Everett I know I said you got it basically right after it was like a week after we hook it up.
AJ Barse So yeah, yeah. So but anyway, so yeah, that's that's my three GMT slash world timers that I have in my collection and they all get risk time. You know, they're all a different tool for a different job. But honestly, the ferret hasn't come off my wrist since my wife got it for me.
Everett You know, I thought about taking the cheap way out because I realized when you sent me your list that you were gonna have all of your watches like in your hands. And so I thought, well, I've got the GMT watch. You do. I've got my G-Shock. Yep. You know, and so I thought about talking about that, but yeah, that's a little cheap. So I actually, what I did is in true 40 in 20 fashion, I picked some watches that you might be able to buy, you and you and you and you might be able to buy.
AJ Barse And you.
Everett and you today. Today. So I think for sure you can buy a Ferro Rocher if you want to, if you want to shell out the bucks. They're available and they're awesome. Going to be a little bit harder to find this Legant or one of the Seikos that AJ talked about. And that's the nature of these things. But I think it's worth a look, right? I think it's worth a look and an investigation and some research. and the journey, if that's your thing. I know some of you guys are very into vintage watches. And I think it's a noble pursuit, have a vintage chronograph, have a vintage this or that. But I think these vintage GMT slash world time watches are a ton of fun. So in terms of prices, I think you're looking at under $1,000 for the Seiko's in pretty good shape. You're probably looking at under about $300 or $400 for a Legant if you can find one in pretty good shape. However, I, being the sweetheart that I am, and I am a sweetheart.
AJ Barse You are. Smoochy-boochy, sweetheart.
Everett I've picked some watches that, you know what, I don't want to hunt. I don't want to search. I just want to go to the Amazon and find a watch I got some stuff for you. So I've got three of them. And the first watch I have is a watch from a company that we've never talked about on the show. I'm sure of it. Although I don't know why we haven't talked about it because it's a very, very cool watch. Very cool brand. But this is Braun. Braun. Makers of radios and hair dryers and perhaps the most well-recognized calculator on the face of the earth. made famous by not Dieter Rams, but perhaps by my man, Steve Jobs slash Joni Ive. The calculator on your iPhone, get it up, take a look at it, is based on the Braun calculator, the Dieter Rams Braun calculator. Totally is. Braun is a company that is steeped in design language, right? Perhaps more than any other company in the world, Braun has set iconic design language for all sorts of goods, household gadgets and gizmos. They make a GMT watch. The Braun Watch with the GMT hand. That's what it's called. They're so dedicated to minimalist language. The Braun Watch GMT. So this is reference number BN0142WHBLG. This is the white dialed version of a watch that also comes in a couple other dial variations. It's a 40 millimeter watch. It's a 40 millimeter watch with 22 millimeter lugs. I don't like that. It happens occasionally. Brew does that too. They're hooded lugs. So I think they can get away with it. It's got some strap presence. I prefer a skinnier strap. 50 meters of water resistance. This is of course a quartz GMT watch. It's going to have, you know, an independently set hand, a GMT hand. They come with both Ronda and Miota quartz movements, which is a thing some of these companies do in the effort to bring you the best possible prices. But yeah, what do you think, AJ? I just love the design. This is sort of a Bauhaus style GMT watch.
AJ Barse No, no, this, this is killer. Um, and the, yeah, the, the white one comes with like a, uh, a blue kind of leather-ish looking strap. I'd probably take that off personally, but I get why they're doing it. The, the, the GMT hand on theirs is, is a blue. So they're kind of matching that, which is kind of, kind of skookum. The, the other two variants they've got is black dial, uh, in a steel case and black dial. And I think like a PVD or DLC case, which I'm not a big black on black watch fan, but that aesthetic looks really killer with the yellow for the seconds, the blue for the GMT and the GMT 24 hour track around the outside. Yeah. Looks killer. Yeah.
Everett Yeah, no, I totally concur. Killer looking watch. I guess that's all to say about it. I don't need to. I don't need to beat it into the ground, I guess. But pretty neat watch. Now, the second watch I have not available today. from its manufacturer's website. However, still widely available, much more available than, say, for instance, AJ's Legant watch, which you're going to have to, you're going to have to, like, I don't know, become a picker to find. But this is a watch from Time Factors. Now, Time Factors, I think, is sort of a controversial company. Every time we talk about it on the show, we get people say, ah, Time Factors. Whatever. They're a company that sells pretty cool watches out of the UK. Uh, this is the Time Factor Speedbird GMT PRS-22 GMT. This is a 2893-2 watch, uh, which is obviously ETA's 2800, uh, GMT movement. Uh, this is a sort of a B type. It looks like a B type Flieger watch. Yeah. With a GMT hand. It's not a B-type Flieger for a number of reasons. With that said, it fits that bill almost perfectly. Solid case back, you know, 40 millimeters essentially, 39, a little over 39. 46 millimeter lug-to-lug, so it's going to wear super well. Just under 12 millimeters thick. 20 millimeters. 20 millimeters on the lug space. It's just cool, man.
AJ Barse Yeah, it's just cool. This kind of screen like, yeah, the Speedbird kind of reminds me of like a Laco or something that.
Everett Totally. That's exactly what popped into my head is the is the Laco B, the Aachen, I think, or the Augsburg, I can't remember. You know, these are used for just about 800 bucks, 850 bucks for a 2893-2. I think that that's exactly right. Um, you know, and it's going to be just a totally magnificent machine and they look cool. The loom on the dial looks perfect. It's sort of that blue BGW9 type loom. Um, and I think it's fantastic. I think you can get one if you wanted something a little bit nicer. Um, you know, some, something a little bit nicer and maybe a little bit, uh, in that time factors way with sort of historical significance without actually being historical. I love these, man. I think they're super cool. Nothing more to say about them, so I'm going to talk about my third watch. This is a watch you can buy today for almost no money. Ooh. It's got an automatic movement. Oh, wow. It's a world time. Hot dog. Bernhard. Yeah. Binnacle. World time. Yes. So this is a 9000 series Miyota movement, 9015 movement. uh 42 millimeter tonneau slash cushion case 200 meters of water resistance sapphire comes on a dope shark mesh if you like that sort of thing and i'm not hugely inclined towards that but whatever um but god damn 200 meters for under 300 bucks 285 bucks i think when i looked earlier on this thing 200 meters 90 15 world timer with a bezel so this is a passive as you'd call it a passive world time watch so not The movement is just a Miyota 9015 3head movement, but it does everything you need to tell the time in Perry, if that's what you want to do, or New York.
AJ Barse Love it. Yeah. No, I looked at this actually before when I was hunting for the Legant. So the cool thing is, is like, you know, you got the second crown, you can sync it up with your local time zone, and that way you can track everything passively, which is great. But this has got a Miyota 9015 in it. It's a contemporary movement. You don't, like you said, yeah, if you go vintage, you're going to have to pick and obviously, you know, You don't know what the service record is, so you're going to end up paying more to have it serviced and get it back to working condition. This is turnkey at 300 bones, you know, 41 and a half millimeters. Love it. The thickness on this thing is the only thing that gets me. It's a chunk, man. It's a chunk. Yeah.
Everett It's a, it's a thick case. You know, Fred doesn't even tell you how thick it is. Cause it's like, he's like, I don't really want to put 18 and a half millimeters thick.
AJ Barse Which I don't get with a 90 15 movement either. Like, but, but I bet you he did it because of, because the water resistance.
Everett Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure that's right. And it's got Sapphire. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a great watch, but it's a chunk. It's, it's not going to be a svelte under your tight dress shirt cuff. Mm-hmm. So you just move the button. You'll be fine. Yep. You'll just move the button. Well, that's my third watch. We've got a whole list here of other watches that you had sort of brought up to talk about. I think we're going to skip them. And that's okay. We can maybe link to them in the show notes if I do show notes someday again. But AJ, did you, did you by any chance, did you by any chance come with an other thing in hand?
AJ Barse an other thing in hand? Well, I have my microphone, I have my coffee, I have my, or my tea, my watch. What other thing are you talking about?
Everett So, you know, this is the show where we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. And this is the time of the show where we talk about other things we like. I assumed you being our sort of go-to co-host that you might have just... No?
AJ Barse No, I didn't. I forgot. Totally fine. But if you get it rolling, I can come up with something.
Everett Yeah, well, so I mean, this has been a weird week for us. Yeah. And some of that has to do with babies. Some of that has to do with the fact that my kitchen, I can probably post a picture on the Instagram, but my kitchen is sort of no more. It's gone. The whole thing is just gone. I mean, the space is still there. but the things that you might think about being in a kitchen are not there. And my children had lice this week. What? Which is terrible.
AJ Barse Dude, I am so sorry.
Everett That's a rough week. It's like one of these shameful things. I feel like I've I'm embarrassed about it. It just happens, right? There are kids and they're in school and who knows how that happens. But so I've been eating. I've been eating very poorly. I made the decision, you know, gosh, without a kitchen, we can't cook. It's not a great time for me to be dedicated to keto because, you know, I eat keto by and large. But I thought, you know, it's in between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Makes sense for me just to sort of. Back this off for a minute. and just relax in the interest of having a sane family. And so what the, the, the end result of that is that I wind up eating a lot of cookies because I love cookies, right? So just because I'm not eating keto, I must eat everything that's terrible in the world. And, and I've decided that, uh, as much as I love chocolate chip cookies and as much as I love those little Christmas, the peanut butter Hershey kiss cookies, I don't know what you call those. I think my very favorite cookie is a sugar cookie with a simple, simple cream frosting on it. And so that's my other thing for this week is a simple sugar cookie with cream frosting. I think maybe the most perfect food in the world. It's unobjectionable. It's always good. And it's just perfect. So I came, I, in fact, right before we recorded, I had two of these things. I had two of these things. One of them was a star and one of them was a Christmas tree. And as I was sitting there pondering the show, I was thinking, golly, someone's got to tell the world. Someone's got to tell the world how amazing these sugar cookies are. And we should talk about them. We should talk about them, get the word out, let the people know sugar cookies, cream frosting, is the truth. If you haven't had one or ten already, make a batch with your kids. They're super easy. They'll love it. They get to put frosting on them in any design they want. That's it. That's my other thing for the week. AJ, are we going to wrap or do you have something?
AJ Barse I got something. You had to get my juices flowing. I was inspired by your cookies and your festival for voluntary. Uh, something from your neck of the woods, north of your neck of the woods, actually. Uh, so here in Bellingham, we've got our, we, we've got our own kombucha, um, you know, place and it's all good, but I actually got to say out of, I believe they're out of Portland. Uh, ever heard of Brew Doctor?
Everett I have. Oh yeah.
AJ Barse Oh yeah. Yeah. So Brew Doctor Kombucha, they have this seasonal one that comes out called Vanilla Oak. And even if you're not big into kombucha, like maybe you're like, uh, AJ, you're a little bit too hippie for me. Look, here's the thing, okay? My wife is kind of on the fence when it comes to bucha. She's like, it's okay. She had one sip of this and she's like, oh my God, this tastes like vanilla cream soda, but it's healthy. So If my wife likes this, if you can find it, like I said, it's a limited reserve or whatever the heck they call it. If you can find a bottle of Brew Doctor Kombucha Vanilla Oak, especially if you are trying to be a little bit more healthy and you like cream soda, try it. And it's very seasonal. It's very festive.
Everett It's vanilla. I dig it. You know what? They make a pink lady. They make a pink lady kombucha that's available in the summers. It's also fantastic.
AJ Barse Oh, I have not tried that one yet.
Everett All right, AJ, anything else that you've got for the people?
AJ Barse No, I love your people.
Everett Yeah, I love them too. Hey, thank you for joining us this week, AJ. I really appreciate you being here. And thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20. Feel free to check us out on Instagram at 40 and 20. Also, if you want to support the show, patreon.com slash 40 and 20, that's where we get all our money for hosting and the other things we have to pay for to bring you the show every week. Don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life and other things we like.
AJ Barse Buh-bye!