Episode 48 - Interview with Jeff Sexton of Elgin Time
Published on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 21:06:00 -0700
Synopsis
Jeff Sexton, owner of ElginTime.com, joins Andrew and Everett to discuss his passion for vintage American watches, particularly Elgin pocket watches. He shares his background as a software engineer and how he got into watchmaking through his grandfather, who attended the Elgin Watchmakers College. Jeff talks about the challenges of working with vintage watches, sourcing period materials, and preserving the knowledge and history of these timepieces. He also discusses his experience living with intelligent parrots, particularly his African Grey parrot named Harlan.
Links
Transcript
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| Andrew | Hello fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is the 1420 podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett. |
| Everett | How are you? I'm good. I started hitting the White Claw early. |
| Andrew | You did. Not just White Claw. White Claw and rum. And I don't think it gets... You don't tell everybody. Oh, I'm gonna. Because I don't think what we're drinking gets any more basic. I'm even drinking out of a stemless wine glass. |
| Everett | Yeah, that is a stemless wine glass. It's a good looking stemless wine glass. |
| Andrew | It is. And it's good filled with White Claw and Bacardi. |
| Everett | And, you know, I've got this... I don't know what you'd call this. |
| Andrew | I call those tumblers. |
| Everett | This is like a Macy's tumbler. |
| Andrew | It's funny. I have a whole set of those, too. That's what I usually drink scotch out of. Sometimes snifters, but usually not. |
| Everett | I like a thinner rim than this. The rim on this is a little thick. I want a nice thin rim. |
| Andrew | Oh, I dig those because I feel like they have a really thin rim. |
| Everett | Ding. Ding. How are you, man? |
| Andrew | So good. So tired. I had a very long weekend. I started work. I got up for work at 3 a.m. on Friday. Decided to be in early. And I worked all day. And then I left from work to go hunting. You're muted. |
| Everett | Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I muted myself and then I tried to talk to you. Wait, so you started work at three? |
| Andrew | Well, I got up at three to be at work at six and I have to drive an hour to get to work. So anyway, I got up at, anyway, that's neither here nor there. I got to out camp at 1.30 in the morning. So for those of you doing the math, it's 20 and hife, 21 and hife hours. Your math is wrong. |
| Everett | You can't say for those doing the math and then screw up the math. |
| Andrew | I'm helping you. So because you, I screwed it up too. So for, I was up and then I got up a few hours later and hunted all day and unfortunately did not get anything on the ground, but we worked a couple of elk right at, right as the sun was starting to dip down below the mountains. And it's almost like they knew it because we were working on them and they were starting to get closer and closer and closer. And I lifted up my bow to see if I could still see my pins. So, uh, the way archery optics work is they're fiber optic tubes that catch light and illuminate. So when you can't see your pins anymore, it's no longer legal shooting hours. It's kind of a philosophy I've always gone off of, even though it might still be legal shooting hours, but I couldn't see my pins. So we packed up and hiked the five miles uphill. Well, four and some change. Both ways. No, just one way. Cause so the, where we camp is up on top of a mountain. Cause that's where we can access on the public side. And then there's no, it's all road lists down on the backside. So whenever we hunt, we like drop into the pit of despair. So basically no matter what, at the end of the day, we know we're going to gain 2,000 or more feet in elevation to get back to beer and bed. Right. And because I was out there for such a short period of time, I didn't even set up a tent or roll out a sleeping bag or a sleeping mat. I just slept in the backseat of my truck. Brutal. Which was both comfortable and uncomfortable because of the angle of the backseat. It just rolls you into the upright part of it, which was nice, but my hips hurt. Yeah. So yeah, I did that. |
| Everett | And then you did family pictures today. |
| Andrew | No, those got canceled on account of rain. So I was able to get home and not look like a wild animal in the photos. I still have some green grease paint my facial hair. Yeah, that'll be gone tomorrow. It's not a big deal. And now here I am. |
| Everett | And here you are worn out. You know, my weekend was much less eventful. I had I had a soccer jamboree and then soccer games. |
| Andrew | That's more exhausting than 10 miles uphill. |
| Everett | No, it's not. I love it, man. You know, both both kids are just doing way too many activities. And Kim, just by nature of her job, has more accessibility and availability to do those things. So it's pretty cool to be able to have that hands-on and be there and be encouraging. But it's that parent syndrome where I want to sort of overcorrect and I want to really what I need to do is just say, that was awesome, good job, and be supportive. But I want to be like, when you were when you were challenging, you know, you over committed on that defense and you know, it was just not super helpful. And they don't understand that yet. Yeah, that's right. |
| Andrew | I mean, do you? |
| Everett | Uh, I do. Okay. I mean, I don't know. A little bit, I guess. That's, I mean, I just, you're making me feel defensive now. You should. |
| Andrew | I'm on the attack. |
| Everett | Well, well, good. Well, we actually, uh, are, are back on the saddle. We've got a guest today. So we've got on the line here, Uh, Jeff Sexton of Elgin time.com. Jeff, are you there? How are you? Yeah. Hi. Can you hear me? Okay. I can hear you just fine. Good. So Jeff, you have a website and a business. Your website is Elgin time.com, right? And you are a watchmaker who specializes in vintage Elgin pocket watches. Is that correct? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, I, um, I try to specialize in American watches, most of which, if not 80-90% of which, just happen to be Elgin watches. I have a lot of information on the website about Elgin watches, just because they're the most common and there's a lot of information about them, they're the ones people have, so that's what's mostly out there. |
| Everett | So we, we were actually acquainted after, uh, Andrew and I did our American watches episode. Uh, a couple of Instagram users directed me your direction and said, Hey, uh, there's this fellow who's kind of an expert. Uh, he's super involved in the social media and the watch game. And, uh, this was kind of a missed opportunity for you guys. And I agreed at the time, and I think I reached out to you. So this would have been several months ago at this point. Um, right. And, um, realize quickly you were in Portland, Oregon, which is my hometown. And my hometown. And just up the street from us, which is... Double embarrassing that we didn't reach out. And also kind of convenient. It's true. I'm in Portland. So are you a Portland local? |
| Jeff Sexton | Yes, I was born in Portland. You'd be surprised how much email I get from people that assume I live in Illinois. |
| Andrew | Oh, that makes sense. |
| Everett | And is that just by way of what you do or what's the... Exactly. |
| Jeff Sexton | People look it up on the website and then they send me an email and they ask me, you know, which part of town I live in, referring to Elgin, Illinois. And I have to tell them that I'm about 3000 miles from there. |
| Andrew | But feel free to drive on over. |
| Everett | And which part of town do you live in? I know some of our folks will be interested. |
| Andrew | Or work in, rather. |
| Jeff Sexton | Northeast Portland. Okay. Northeast Portland. I live in the Sabin neighborhood, if that means anything to anybody. |
| Everett | Well, I mean, it means something to both of us. I grew up in 72nd and Foster, so former FKA felony flats. |
| Andrew | That's where I currently live. Not in Portland, but in felony flats. |
| Everett | Well, very cool. Very cool. Thanks for joining us, Jeff. Sure. So before we get started, I'll give you just a couple minutes to tell people where to find you both on Instagram and wherever else it is that you're putting up information most frequently. I know you've got a Pluspora website. So tell people as they're listening. |
| Jeff Sexton | Sure. It's all kind of in flux. I posted a lot of stuff to Google Plus when it existed, and I used that a lot. And that worked great for several reasons. Google Plus was a really easy to use website and didn't require a login to view it and handled photos well. Really worked out well for me. But of course, Google canned that. So I've been kind of not, I don't know, I don't have an anchor social media presence at this time, really. I don't know what it's going to be. There isn't really anything to replace that. I have Elgin Time on Instagram. And I have, what I do is I post a couple of pictures and some text there a day with current projects. But I post more details and more pictures on the Pluspora site, which is under an Elgin Time tag that's easily searchable by hashtag Elgin Time on the pluspora.com site. I kind of settled on that because it had most of my requirements for social media to post things. You know, a lot of my customers are not super computer literate. They don't want to create accounts. You know, it's got to be simple. It's got to be visual and not require a little bit. So for right now, that's the way it is. That site works fairly well. Those on elgin time.com I have links to these things. So if anybody's interested, they could just go straight to that page and write on the first page. I have links to the Instagram and the, and the plus Cora, uh, stream. |
| Andrew | Your webpage almost strikes me as a, uh, Like the first chapper chapter. Chapper. The first chapper. Man, I'm White Claw and Rum. What do you want from me? The first chapter of of an encyclopedia of this passion. And you have all these links to tools and to all the all these references and all this in there. And it seems like the really like the beginnings of an encyclopedia for some for just this knowledge base. That's that's. |
| Jeff Sexton | It's funny you should put it that way. I have a lot of information here. I have a lot of books. I have a lot of industry documents and technical guides and all this advertising. I've got a house full of paper. And I've been slowly putting it online because everybody should see it. Everybody should have access to it. It's history. A lot of the stuff is just paper, and a lot of the stuff is scarce. And it's a big task, and I don't know if I'll ever get it all online, but I do, yeah, I do try to put it all online. And I've been using deliberately, as some people may notice with that website, most of it is on Google Sites, or their web service, and I keep it under their- Sites with a C? No, it's with an S. It's a free service, is my point. And I try to keep it under all their thresholds because part of my goal is to have all this stuff online forever if I can, you know. I try not to have things out there that will disappear if I stop paying for them or something like that. Sure. Because if I can get it out there and get it into the Google world, then people have access to this stuff indefinitely, hopefully. It's really hard to preserve things for a long period of time. A lot of knowledge disappears real fast. Sure. There's a lot of mysteries in the Elgin world, for example. As much information as they left behind, there's a lot of gaps. And it's surprising how quickly those those gaps become just unknown things um that that we don't know then there's it's there's a lot of ongoing research in elgin watches to figure out you know which uh you know when certain things happened or whatnot and all you have is uh actual watches and advertising and old catalogs and things i mean as much information as they left it disappears real fast so i like to you know, try to help preserve it, put this stuff online as best I can, because I do have a lot of stuff here and it's just got to be out there. |
| Andrew | When you're saying you're preserving this stuff, are you working with historic documents? I mean, are you working with source material? Or how are you consolidating all this information and where from? This is like, we're going a lot farther faster than I want, but I want to, I love where we're at right now. So we'll eventually circle back. So I apologize for being a little bit un-chronological with this. |
| Jeff Sexton | Yeah, whatever you want to do. Yeah, it's interesting. Elgin is an interesting company. I could just like take a step back here and you touched on some of this in your prior episode. They were extremely innovative company and they came up with things like standardizing their parts. They invented this. They invented this idea of standardized interchangeable parts where you could look up the watch you have and look up somewhere what part goes where and order it from the factory by a number and get the part that would drop right in, supposedly. In theory, it's not that simple, but they tried and they invented that. |
| Everett | And when you say they invented it, I mean, again, I think we did touch on this a little bit, but not just for American watch companies. Internationally, right? Elgin was out in front of Elgin was out in front of the line of scrimmage on this thing, right? |
| Jeff Sexton | Oh, absolutely. And it's fascinating because it just is a to be very broad about it. It's a it's kind of an information science topic, kind of how you organize things. And this is this is happening like before there were computers, before even there was the idea that you should alphabetize things, believe it or not. Right. I mean, they came up with things like you know, numbering and naming schemes that are not like what you would do today. For example, you know, if you had a part that was part number 567 or something, and it was, you know, some certain part for a certain watch, and people could look that up, and then they decided to make a different version of it that had a, you know, a different finish, was polished more heavily or something like that. Today, you might think, oh, we'll call that 567B, or something, you might think that, because you're used to sorting things and alphabetizing things the way we do things today. No, in some cases, they would put a prefix on it. They would put a little different letter or number in the front. |
| Andrew | It's still a systematic way of indicating. |
| Everett | It's a systematic way, but it's different from today's. |
| Jeff Sexton | There's all these things, and my point is that there's all these things in their data that are confusing in the records that are left behind. |
| Everett | It doesn't work with an Excel spreadsheet the way you'd want it to. |
| Andrew | Right. |
| Jeff Sexton | It does not. And so I, you know, try to have this information out there and I do the best I can. I mean, some of it is very difficult to work with, with a computer. It just doesn't work that way. They've got like three different part systems that they came up with over the years and they don't overlap the way you'd think. And, um, It's just really tricky to get that information out there, and I work on it all the time. I have parts information by grades on my website, which I know a lot of people use. I alter it every month based on mostly watches, an actual watch that I have in hand that's got something weird in it. It's different. It doesn't match what it's supposed to be. And if I get a few of those, I figure, Oh, there's a run of serial numbers that have got something different in them. |
| Everett | You know, that's, it's an incredible idea, Jeff. And I don't think it's one that we thought about, uh, when we were talking about this. And, and I suspect that probably a lot of the people are listening, uh, feel the same way. It's an incredible idea to, to think about the fact that computers have changed the very way we sort things, the number of things. And that's fine and dandy in and of itself to consider, but when you think about a modern historian using modern implements, Excel spreadsheets or whatever it is you're using, to sort and track these things, the challenges in that, again, something I haven't ever considered that. How do you, as you move through, have you developed any tips or not tips, but have you developed any practices to assist you in that or anything specific that's not super nerdy, uh, super off topic? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, it's, it's just, it's just something you gotta be aware of. Um, I get a, I get a fair amount of email from people that have, well, Elgin left behind a lot more information than other watch companies, uh, cause they were a lot more organized. |
| Andrew | So it was a function of organization that they were just that much further ahead of their peers who collapsed or went out of business around the same time? |
| Jeff Sexton | Yeah, they kind of invented this stuff. They were very innovative about how their parts system works. And so I often get email from people that say they want to buy part XYZ for some watch because they think they could fix it and they know that part's broken. But the problem is, it's not that straightforward because they weren't well frankly they just weren't that good I mean the parts are not that standardized you know you can never be quite sure what you have it was the early days of this kind of thing and there was still a lot of I suspect in the manufacturing process you know and their assembly lines they just put whatever they had in the basket that day into the watch and it may not be what is supposed to be there and there are a lot of exceptions in the well-known ranges of Exceptions in the records that aren't really right so there's a lot of It's kind of deceiving. I mean, I mean, you know a modern person say you're finding a part for your car You know, you can pretty much look that up and order it and be pretty sure that that part will fit in your car Sure, sure But with the watches, it's not really so much like that. There's a lot of wiggle room and a lot of exceptions and frankly, sometimes parts just don't fit that well and they have to be altered a little bit to work, which they did at the factory when they made them, but that's just a QA thing. I mean, their manufacturing processes were not as accurate as they are today. It was early days of that kind of thing, but it was a very innovative company. And actually, just to shift gears a little bit, their parts handling and all that was not their only innovation. This was a very progressive company in many ways. They had an early form of employee health insurance. and you know many other things like that it was uh kind of it's kind of the uh kind of like working at a dot com or something in you know 1900 they were a progressive startup well it's it would they they employed young people they tended to employ single people there was even a kind of if you look at the early demographics in the city of elgin illinois you can kind of trace this back there was a There was a lot of young couples with no children that met at the factory and married and they both worked there and they both made good incomes. It's a kind of phenomenon that was unknown in 1900 or days following the Civil War. This was a new thing in American economic and social structures to have young people like owning a house and living in a sort of suburban setting. in a city like that, and having a job that didn't involve working on a farm. |
| Everett | Yeah, right. I mean, they were doing something totally new and different. |
| Jeff Sexton | Yes, exactly. It was a time of shifting economics in the country, and that company was right at the forefront of that. And following close on their heels were the other American watch companies. That was the industry of the time. |
| Andrew | Hamilton and and American Watch Company and yeah so I think we've got it let's if you could just give me a quick overview of your company what it is that you do because I feel like we've got a pretty broad idea of your interest but what is it exactly that you do I repair people's watches in a nutshell I get I get |
| Jeff Sexton | Watches old watches. I'd like to say so I try to stick to American makes And I do stuff for people all over the world. I do it all by shipping and I just do The kind of repair and service that they would have I'm not I don't restore watches per se I do the type of repair and service that they would have received at the time using pretty much period techniques and materials and within reason where it's practical and get them working and preserved and able to be passed on to the next generation mostly. |
| Everett | You know, I feel like that's a little bit, I feel like you're probably a bit of a self-deprecating fellow by nature. Uh, and I feel like you understated what you do a little bit. Um, but, but maybe, maybe we come at this in a little bit different angle. Why don't you tell us sort of your background, how you got into watches, what, what your education, what your, what your history is in the watch industry? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, um, my grandfather, uh, attended the Elgin watch school, which is another, uh, kind of innovative thing that they did. kind of to understand how innovative that is, think about something like if you're in IT, you might get a Microsoft certification or something like that. LG created a watch school and they trained young, mostly men, but not entirely, there were women, to work on their watches using their standardized methods and part systems and all that. And they sent them out throughout the country And they created this kind of reputation. If you buy an Elgin watch and you buy it from somebody that has this certified person at their store, you'll be able to get it repaired and it'll be solid for a long time. They created that reputation by creating the watch school. They were very early innovators in creating watch schools. There were others that came later. they again they kind of created this my grandfather went to that school in in the mid 1930s and he worked on he was a watchmaker's whole career and he's gone now but I spent a lot of time with him in the early 2000s and I Well, I just, you know, one day, um, I do remember sitting and talking to him. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I remember talking to him about his experience with the watch college and his education and his work. |
| Andrew | Did they call it the watch college? |
| Jeff Sexton | Yes. Elgin, Elgin Watchmakers College. Yeah. Elgin, Illinois. Yeah. And he just said to me, uh, so do you think you'd like to learn to work on watches or something to that effect? And it just, uh, you know, I thought, Huh. I don't know why my whole life I never thought of that before. Yes, I would. It wasn't that long ago. We're talking, you know, 17 or 18 years ago. And after that, I spent a lot of time and money learning this stuff. And I spent a lot more time like grandfather taking watches apart. I used to, he lived in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, and I was in Portland. And I would, when I got enough tools and got kind of, got myself kind of figured out, I would work on watches all week for a couple of weeks or something, drive up there and take everything I'd done to him to look at and, you know, diagnose and help me out and give me tips and, you know, tell me everything that I'd done wrong. And that went on for years until I kind of learned it. And, um, and, uh, I began to put together a website and do, yeah, just sort of hang, hang out the shingle and do some work for people. And I started slowly at first, but, um, it's become what I do, um, all the time. |
| Everett | You know, I don't mean to be too philosophical, but that sort of feels like a classic apprenticeship. I think that most of the watchmakers that Andrew and I have become familiar with through what we do are folks that have attended watchmaker school in Seattle or some of the other places. Or YouTube. Yeah, that's right. I mean, it seems to me like your educational process was a little bit more traditional. Traditional, yeah, that's the right word for it. |
| Jeff Sexton | I'm kind of proud of that for a couple of reasons. One is my grandfather was very good at what he did, and he had a passion for this type of watch. And my grandfather's teacher was a guy named William Semelius. It was a name you'll see come up in American watchmaking if you kind of dig into it. It was right up there with all the greats. He was a very significant person and my grandfather had, uh, he used to talk about it. I mean, you know, he was my grandfather's teacher. We're talking like 60 years later, my grandfather would talk about this guy like he, you know, just talk to him. Um, he would quote him all the time. Uh, there's a lot of books out there by William Simelius. He was, uh, he was a great teacher of watchmakers and he kind of laid down the program at the Elgin Watchmakers College. he was there for many, many years, decades, and, uh, was very influential in that era of American, of the, of the American industry through, uh, you know, the, from the twenties into the, into the thirties, uh, very influential person. |
| Everett | Um, and that's, and that's part of your legacy. |
| Jeff Sexton | Yeah. I feel like, I feel like I'm, I'm kind of, locked out there. I would I would use the word use the phrase lucked out. But my grandfather said he deliberately made sure that he got assigned at the school to that guy because he knew he was the best teacher. And he really was. But I feel like I'm I'm very privileged to have had that connection because it is a direct connect. I'm pretty young to have such a direct connection to a person of that stature. from the 1930s. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a tangible one too. My grandfather used to say, uh, he would, he would criticize what I did by quoting Simelius. He would say, uh, well, you did a good job on this, but Simelius would say you used a little too much oil there. |
| Andrew | I wouldn't say it, but you know, he probably would. |
| Everett | No, you know, that's, uh, that's incredible. I, you know, I don't think we're, we're sort of, you know, we're not on video Skype or anything. So we can't see you and you can't see us, but we're making eyes at each other. Some of the story is really incredible. I'm actually, uh, you know, we're only a few minutes in here, but I'm feeling really, uh, I'm feeling really fortunate to have, to have you on the show. I know that's kind of, that's, that's a silly thing to say perhaps, but, uh, the history here, I don't know that we knew what we were getting into, uh, you know, 35 minutes ago. |
| Andrew | No, we definitely did not, not, not to this magnitude. And I, I want to go on to a question of, so when you made this transition, what were you doing previous to taking on the family mantle or this tradition? |
| Jeff Sexton | I was a software engineer for 25 years. |
| Andrew | That's a hard left. |
| Everett | It's a hard left, but I got to say it doesn't surprise me at all. |
| Andrew | No, it makes sense. I was going to think like an engineer of sorts. |
| Jeff Sexton | I know multiple of software engineer or IT type people that have gone into some form of watch work. |
| Andrew | It makes sense. It's, I mean, though different, it has all the same disciplines required, the same desire for learn, that tinkering mentality and deliberate tinkering, very much unlike the way Everett and I do where we just break things and then find a way to fix it. But that makes perfect sense. I, that is exactly what I imagined. |
| Jeff Sexton | That's another subject, you know, we could talk about it. I, um, I do think that, um, watches, one of the things I've run into a lot is that I think people underestimate how just mechanical and deterministic watches are, you know, these are machines. They're not, it's not magical. And their whole entire function and how they work is, well, we're talking about mechanical watches mostly, obviously, but, you know, we're talking about physics and geometry. And that's fascinating. It took me a long time, and I would say it took me more than a year, really, of really thinking about it all the time to sort of understand how a normal, how a regular escapement works. And even about it, sometimes it's still, it's a, it's a very, it's a very tricky thing. It's kind of this weird accident of physics that this even works. |
| Andrew | Can you give me a one minute or less answer on how an escapement works? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, sure. Um, well, There's two ways. |
| Andrew | So yes, but no, take as long as you need, just not 30 minutes to answer that question. |
| Everett | We don't have 20 years, Jeff. |
| Jeff Sexton | So we're going to need it in a little bit less than that. Watch works is it's got a power source. You wind up the mainspring and the mainspring unwinds every wind you put on the crown. When you wind the watch is going to come out through the hands, every turn, it's all just gear ratios. It doesn't just whiz and come all out at once is the escapement. It's called the escapement because it escapes power slowly. So power unwinds from the mainspring slowly. It escapes slowly. Now there's, over the centuries, and you know, if you look, you know, anybody who's paid attention to watches will encounter this kind of thing eventually. There's been lots of escapements. They're different designs, different ways of doing it. And they're quite different. They're mechanical designs, you know, to cause this to happen. The Swiss lever escapement as we know it today virtually almost every mechanical watch except for the Omega coaxial escapements that George Daniels invented used the Swiss lever escape and That that came into being in widespread use in the 1880s or so by 1900 no Cylinder escapements were made anymore. That's the older type from, you know, an older technology. And they're just different geometries. You know, you can find pictures of this online and Google it. You'll see how they work. There's some good animations out there on websites about how this actually functions. But it's fascinating that these things are inventions. I mean, people create a way to stop that mainspring from just shooting the gears off as fast as it can. The rate at which the hour and the minute hand turn are just gear ratios to each other. It's like a bicycle. I mean, they can't at different rates. It's just the way they turn. But how fast it actually moves over the course of a day is a function of the escapement and how much power and how often it beats. When the escapement beats, it releases power to the hands and they move. Here's a surprising thing. I mean, some people have been surprised to hear this kind of thing when I say it. It doesn't matter how fast or slow the watch is, or how fast or slow the hands move. It's almost irrelevant. What matters is how often the escapement releases power. |
| Andrew | Because the hands are just cosmetic to the machine that's running. |
| Jeff Sexton | Because the hands, they jump forward when they move, and they move, they jump forward a certain number of times a second. So how often that is, is what governs how accurate the watch reads. How fast they move, when they move, is almost irrelevant. So the escapement governs that, and the balance wheel in a Swiss lever escapement is what governs how often the hands jump forward, are allowed to jump forward. In an old pocket watch, it could be 18,000 times a minute. you know, you have, um, the watch just blew my mind. |
| Andrew | Just thinking about 18,000 times a minute. |
| Everett | And that's, uh, that's a five S that's a five beat per second. Right. |
| Jeff Sexton | Yeah. Well, it depends. Yeah. You can do the math, you know, it, it, it's there, there are different ones. And, and, um, but the, the point is, you know, that's, that's what the escapement does. It, it causes that spring. the mainspring that's wound to release its power to the hands and cause them to move a certain number of times a second. If it's too many times a second, the watch will run fast. If it's not enough, it runs slow, or reads slow, to put it another way. That's what the escapement does, to answer your question. |
| Everett | And so maybe a follow on it, and I realize that we're venturing very, very far out of your preferred expertise. The Swiss lever escapement, obviously the classic, uh, escapement, the coaxial, you mentioned the coaxial escapement. And I think we've discussed a few times on the show, the coaxial escapement, but very surfacy. We say, you know, Oh, it's different and it's cool. And then we move the fuck on. What is, what is the difference between a classic Swiss lever escapement and a coaxial escape? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, what is it? I don't know. You need to, you need to draw a picture to describe that. The most interesting thing about the coaxial escapement though, is that it was invented in modern times. This is not something that just happens. There are probably only, I mean, there are only a handful of ways to do this. It's mechanical. It's geometry. It's physics. There are only a handful of ways you can create a mechanical device releases power at regular intervals in this way. And there are verge escapements, there are cylinder escapements, there are all the older types from the old, old days before that lever escapement, that so-called detached lever escapement was invented. And when that escapement was invented, it surpassed all the others because it was superior in many, many ways. And that reigns supreme. for a hundred years or something. Um, sure. And that's, and that's still the way most watches are today. But George Daniels invented a new one and that's just astonishing. I mean, I can't, I can't explain to people how surprising it is that someone found a new way to do it in modern times that there's, there is yet another modern, there's yet another way to do it. It is probably a reasonable thing to say that no one will ever invent another escapement. Bold statement. That's the last one to be found. |
| Everett | Is that a function of necessity or is that a function of elimination of possibilities? |
| Jeff Sexton | Elimination of possibilities, I would say. Like I said, there's definitely a finite number of ways of doing it. |
| Andrew | Would any more just be like unnecessary because there's at least two now very functional ways to do it? Or would it be like, we talked to Vero a couple of weeks ago and these dudes just basically invented a watch with no basis on how to do it. They just, they started with a chunk of metal and they're like, all right, let's make a watch and didn't use anything else beyond ingenuity. Is that, is it, so is it more function of that's where the natural progression will get you to? into one of these two options, or is anything else just not practical? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, whether or not the coaxial escapement is superior would be a matter of opinion. I mean, a lot of people would say it is, but the thing that interests me about it is just that it is an invention of a new way to do it. I consider it highly unlikely that anyone else will come up with another way to do it, ever. It's just really fascinating that after all this time, after all the time that people spent working on this kind of thing over the centuries, that in modern times George Daniels came up with another way to do it. It's very, very unusual and probably will not happen again. The goal with the escapement or in a watch in general, a mechanical watch, is to reduce friction. Sure, sure, sure. As much efficiency as you can between the mainspring and the hands. You don't want to waste any power and you want accuracy. You want a certain number of beats per minute. You want it to go, you know, accurate. |
| Everett | You know, Jeff, we talked about this probably more significantly. We talked about this in quartz watches. You know, quartz watches, since basically the dawn of quartz watches in the late 70s, early 80s, have been incredible, right? There's no quartz watch that's ever been released that's not a very accurate timekeeper, accurate enough for anybody's purposes, I would argue. But we've talked a little bit about this, the ongoing achievement in accuracy, high accuracy quartz and thermal compensation. the different crystals, the XY crystals versus, uh, you know, some of these, some of these, uh, more, more impractical crystals and what that means, what that means in terms of accuracy and friction. And, and we also talked a little bit about, we also talked a little bit about, you know, the one second standard, you know, courts, even these very efficient, uh, um, courts movements. still beat at this one second per minute because because a good one beat one beat per second yes what did I say one second per minute that's wrong one beat per second you know so we talked we talked about this you know why is it that quartz movements don't beat at point you know point one five or whatever it is you know eight beats per second or or 18,000 six beats per second Why is it they're not doing this? Well, the answer is maybe twofold. One, it doesn't make any sense to do it. And two, you lose efficiency. You increase friction, you lose efficiency. I see that. I see some of that coming through in what you're saying. How does that conversation affect your thought process on this, if at all? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, yeah, you're right. That's exactly the kind of engineering trade-offs that go on and all. At the end of the day, quartz watches, well, every watch has an oscillator of some kind that beats a certain number of times a minute. That oscillator then has to release power through the train to the hands. The hands, when I say the train, at the very simplest level, you've got The dial side train on a pocket watch basically governs the relationship between the hour hand and the minute hand, you know? I mean, that's a gear ratio. That's all. So the oscillator releases power at a certain interval to those hands. That's it. That's a watch. That's all a watch does. The rest is the details. It's how accurate that number of beats per second, whatever it is, it could be, whether it's one or whatever, um you know is is is that question and the rest is kind of um you know marketing like you know how how often do you have to change the battery or whatever what it's its power source um that's all just in the details but the the essentials of quartz watch and mechanical watch are are the same it's got a power source it's got some kind of regulator of the power the escapement And, you know, quartz watches don't have a statement per se, but they do have an oscillator, which is giving off a beat, an electrical impulse in that case, at a certain number of times per second, whatever it is. And that causes some electronics to release the power. |
| Everett | It's basically the same thing. You know, I made a statement in our quartz watch episode. I made a statement that I can't remember if Andrew signed off on it or not, so I won't attribute it to him. I said, you know, this is mechanical. What's happening here is mechanical. We're, we're starting with a much higher frequency, but, but we're, we're still essentially mechanical. There's, there's a number of these, uh, flip-flops and, um, you know, we're, we're getting the number down from a much higher number, which, which is by way of, by way of electrical quote unquote, electrical components. But we're still at the end of the day. taking a beat rate and transferring it to seconds. And I suspect that's kind of what you're saying. Is that, is that exactly what I mean? |
| Jeff Sexton | It, it, the principles are exactly the same. Um, it's just a matter of where that oscillation comes from. For example, um, you know, consider, uh, Accutron watches or even before that earlier, uh, electrical watches that were not quartz. I don't know if you guys know what I'm talking about here. They only existed for a few years. |
| Everett | Sure. No, we know. And we talked about this. |
| Jeff Sexton | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, there were a lot, in fact, Elgin created one of the first, not the first, probably the first kind of, there's some little, uh, controversy about that. |
| Everett | Um, we, we love controversy, Jeff. |
| Andrew | That's our thing. |
| Jeff Sexton | These, these watches, watches that run on electrical impulse without a quartz watch or, or a watch that, um, has a balance wheel, and the balance wheel swings back and forth, but it's driven by an electromagnet, and it triggers an escapement. That's interesting. But it's not actually driven in the same way that a mechanical watch is driven by sapping off some of the power to keep it going. Instead, it's got an electromagnet, and it's kind of self-regulating. There were watches like that. I have a Watham that works like that. You know, the battery-powered watch, but it's got a balance wheel, and the balance wheel is the regulation, the regulating factor to the, to the, to releasing the power. It's got an escapement. Um, but it's operating at a pretty, you know, uh, relative to quartz watch, obviously like really slow beat rate. Sure. Like, like a normal mechanical watch, but it's, but it's actually not, uh, operating like a, traditional mainspring driven watch. |
| Everett | Sure. That, that, that threshold, that, that, that, uh, period of time where we transitioned to quartz is fascinating. |
| Jeff Sexton | I hate to change topics though. It's all the same. It's you've got, you've got a power source that's trying to turn the wheels, you know, trying to drive the hands and you have a regulator in between that's releasing power at some regular intervals. It's all about what drives that regulator. |
| Andrew | So I hate to change topics, but earlier you said when you're repairing these watches, you're getting period pieces, period materials to repair these watches. And where are you sourcing material from that period to be able to make these repairs? I mean, how much are you outsourcing to have things machined custom for repairs? And how much are you finding leftover period equipment? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, it's interesting. That's um, that's a challenge. Uh, and it's, it's interesting that I think that it's important to bring that point up. Something I tell people a lot about antique watches is that we're, well, there was a time when everybody had one of these watches. And in fact, most of everybody had an Elgin watch, for example, because they were just so common, but they were also maintained and serviced everywhere. And so these companies, that created these mass-manufactured watches in the early years of industrialization in America mostly, they left behind just mountains and mountains and buckets full and barrels full of spare parts. Over the last several decades, there's been just a lot. Buying parts has been no problem. There have still been parts houses. People that specialize in that have large amounts You can just get on eBay and buy something or whatever But we are literally right now living through the time where that is severely declining and Spare parts are becoming much harder to get I was kind of fortunate in that I got into this at a time when I could still sort of just hoard this stuff And I have a lot of it And I inherited some things. And I just, I have a, frankly, just a house full of this stuff. |
| Andrew | I'm imagining your garage right now. |
| Jeff Sexton | And I'm, for some reason in my head, I'm imagining like... Imagine the living room. Not the garage. Anyway. |
| Andrew | What's your, what's your plan for when that supply dries up? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, that's where it gets tricky. And that's why I say, I tell people, you know, You know, I I often say uh, I would say probably 75% of the people I deal with That have a watch they want repaired fall into one of two categories One is a young person and by young I mean somebody who's in their 20s 30s or 40s Who has inherited a watch and wants to use it? They inherited the grandfather's watch and they want to repair it so they can use it tracks the other type of person is A 70 or 80-year-old person, usually a man, who inherited a watch when they were 20 or 30, used it for a few weeks, broke it, put it in a drawer and forgot about it, and now it's all they have to remember their grandfather by and they want it repaired. |
| Andrew | Good thing they still have it. |
| Jeff Sexton | Yes. And I often wish I could introduce these two people to each other because I wish young people wouldn't just use these watches like they were just ordinary watches. |
| Everett | Because the mainspring is getting damaged and... |
| Jeff Sexton | Because they're going to be the person consuming that item. And in the age that we live in, where these parts are beginning to dwindle, you really don't want to be the last person that uses it. And we're coming to that. Parts, I mean, there are a lot of parts. I could name even specific things that I could easily get my hands on even five years ago that today you can't. They're not available anymore. They're gone. They're all gone. And that's even happening to watch crystals in some sizes. Hunter case crystals are very thin. They're very fragile. In some cases you can't get a glass one anymore. I a a a |
| Andrew | All that being said, are you taking any steps to pass your wealth and body of knowledge on to somebody else? Do you have a legacy plan? Just in the conversation that we've had for just shy of an hour, I'm in awe of what's living inside of your head. Do you have a plan to pass that on to the next person? people who are apprenticing with you? Are you, are you grabbing anyone off the streets to show them this craft and trade? Anybody who will listen? I mean, is that? |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, I'll talk to anybody that'll listen. Um, most people won't. We've got 10 million. Crazy guy talking about watches again. I know. Um, uh, you know, uh, to come full circle, I mean, I put as much as I can online and, uh, And frankly, I encourage anyone who's interested in this stuff to look into it. Frankly, you know, watchmaking on antiques is a great job. It's a nice career and there's a huge demand. I turn stuff away every day that I don't particularly want to work on or that's outside of just, and it's just not because I can't do it. It's because I don't, I'm just narrowing my field just to keep the demand just because of the demand. So I always encourage, you know, young people, if you're looking for an interesting job that you may not have thought of, you know, look into it because it's fascinating. There's no end to what you can learn. I mean, it'll just kill you. I mean, there's no end to what you can learn. I mean, it's one of those things that is absolutely bottomless. You can never develop enough skills or have the right tools or learn everything there is to learn about every different kind of watch that's out there. Um, so it's a fascinating field and it's of extremely high demand and I always encourage people to look into it. And you know, it's not rocket science. Um, the basics of how you work on watches are, is not, uh, super complicated. You learn right away if you're really interested in it, that it, you know, it's, it's a bottomless pit of trying to understand stuff and learn things. |
| Everett | But, uh, you're saying that Andrew's got a job with you. as soon as he moves up. |
| Andrew | That's what I heard. |
| Jeff Sexton | I always encourage people to look into it. And I especially encourage people not to sit down and decide to take apart their grandfather's watch thinking they can fix it without trying to learn something first, because you'll break it. |
| Andrew | Yeah, well, it's already broken. So what's the problem? |
| Everett | And then you get more parts. |
| Jeff Sexton | But by all means, go buy a $30 or $40 broken watch on eBay and try to fix it. |
| Everett | So Jeff, we're going to have to probably transition. I wanted to ask you one question before we transition out, which is kind of pointed, and I think it sort of stems from some of the things you said. Are you seeing a surge of business due to folks inheriting baby boomer watches? The baby boomers are this huge generation. I think folks that follow politics are keenly aware that the baby boomers are in the first processes of dying. Yes. Are you seeing a surge of business as a result of that? |
| Jeff Sexton | Yeah. As I say, there are basically these two types of customers. The third type would be collectors and actual aficionados that have lots of watches. Sure. old people older people and young people that inherit something from an older person and It is generational and all antiques work that way. There's sort of a first wave of antiques where You know a generation is passing on things and that first wave Is where all that stuff just ends up on eBay because somebody just wants to dump it Yeah. And with vintage watches, vintage American watches and pocket watches, that stuff was going on in the 90s and early 2000s. That's when, you know, people that were adults in the 30s and 40s were passing on. Yeah. But then what happens is Um, the second wave comes where people have bought that stuff and now it's an antique. Now it becomes categorized, it becomes identified, and then it's more valuable and more sold for more money. And that's kind of where we are now. We're easing into this period where, you know, you can't buy. When I first got into this, I bought, to talk about, you know, buying a broken watch to work on. I used to buy a broken watch on eBay for $10. Now you can't buy a broken watch on eBay for less than $50. |
| Everett | Sure. The passed upon has become the pass or honor. |
| Jeff Sexton | Exactly. It's sort of a second tier of antiques. And actually all things, it's not just watches. I think almost everything works that way. So you figure out what people are passing on right now, and you can buy it cheaper than it will be in 20 years. |
| Andrew | I mean, that's the kind of the nature of antiques is you have, you have the sentimental people and the collector people. So I have one last question for you and it is, what does your personal watch collection look like? |
| Jeff Sexton | That big, huh? That's an embarrassing number of watches. |
| Andrew | No, there's no such thing. |
| Jeff Sexton | Um, well, I inherited some watches from my grandfather. I've added to that collection substantially in terms of antique watches. Watches I wear every day. I really like, I know you guys talk about this kind of thing. I love like bargain watches or watches where you get a lot for your money. I'm wearing a Seiko five right now. |
| Andrew | Hell yeah. Which color? |
| Everett | Yeah. What are you wearing? |
| Jeff Sexton | Yeah. I'm curious. Yeah. Seiko five. I have a Seiko five with a black dial right now. Yeah. Okay. |
| Everett | that you should. You know, for what type of fives you have been going for in the last, in the last, you know, five years, it feels like everybody should own several of them. |
| Jeff Sexton | Yeah. Yeah. Vintage, um, you know, uh, wristwatches and I, and I do occasionally carry pocket watch, um, you know, that lots to choose from. They're just different ones. Um, and I have a few, uh, especially valuable ones and a lot of um in the way of pocket watches or wrist watches no pocket watches probably the most valuable wrist watch i have modern stuff i do have an rgm um but i guess that's probably the priciest one i have and that's a no-shit watch so rgm is a portland company |
| Everett | that I think a lot of our folks are not gonna be super familiar with, but they may have heard of. RGM is a Portland company that is doing whole hog, start to finish watch manufacturing, and they're a frickin' cool company. How did you connect with them? What's your connection? |
| Jeff Sexton | I don't even remember. I think it's secondhand, so I don't even remember. It's been a while. |
| Andrew | Worth it. Their watches are so cool. |
| Jeff Sexton | I've only ever seen pictures I've never seen one in person and maybe we'll have to schedule a time to link up in person and Just if for no other reason just to just to see you know my my antique watches, you know Basically, it's the same kind of thing and it my grandfather followed the same kind of scheme with watches that he saved or set aside He liked to assemble things that he saw every day in the shop so they're not necessarily the most expensive or finest railroad watches or whatever some of them are there's a few like weird ones in there they're good you know like uh unusual for some reason but they're mostly like uh a good good solid assortment of things that people would use every day um in different eras i think that's you know, just as interesting. |
| Andrew | That's, that's the nature of historical artifacts. We don't, we don't find historical artifacts or, or antiques even that were one of a kind because those don't survive. There was only one we've, our, our understanding of history is informed by commonplace items. And I think those, those, those may not be special in the moment, but they become so special over time. And I, I there's really something to be said for that. |
| Jeff Sexton | People actually had, you know, when they were in use, you know, Um, yeah, good. Yeah, it's kind of nice to see that assortment of, you know, what, what people spent their money on, you know, and these are, you know, price, pricey items. So, um, you know, they're what people wanted and what people used every day. Well, Jeff, I kind of like that. |
| Everett | Jeff, I feel like we could talk to you about this stuff for literally hours. We are about an hour now and some of our folks are going to be itching for Uh, to be able to move on to the next, to the next podcast. Uh, and so we try to, we try to remain aware of that. We, we always, every week we talk about other stuff. And so we're going to do that. We're going to do that now, although I'm lamenting a little bit not to be able to have you back, man. Yeah. I I'm lamenting a little bit not to be able to talk about, uh, talk to you more. Um, you know, would you be up for coming back on and talking about something more specific in the future? Yeah, sure. Fantastic. Love it. Fantastic. Well, This is the time. Then we're going to talk about other things we like. And I know, Andrew, I know you've got a thing. |
| Andrew | I have a thing. |
| Everett | Other things. What do you got, Andrew? |
| Andrew | So, via Armchair Expert, I learned of a- Armchair Expert, which we've talked about on the podcast before. We have. And for those of you who aren't listening, give it a listen. We're north of 100 episodes deep into this podcast. And there are about two hours each. |
| Everett | Not into our podcast, but into Armchair Expert. |
| Andrew | No, yeah, into his he's there there. Yeah, they're deep. So just remind folks armchair expert, armchair expert is a podcast hosted by Dax Shepard and Monica Padman. And they in the beginning, just kind of had their famous friends. And then I want to say it was Katie Couric came on, she actually reached out to them was like, Hey, I'd love to be a guest. And she was their first like non friend, like first time I'm meeting you is on the podcast format. And since then, they've produced north of 100 episodes. And They have a huge variety of people, obviously, because they interview a different person every week, and they're poignant, and it's just one of the best podcasts out there. Oh, absolutely. I mean, they won the iHeartRadio. They were the best new podcast of last year. They interview great people, and they create this environment of real vulnerability, so you get a sense of who these celebrities really are. And they've got a segment they call Experts on... not a segment, a series they call Experts on Expert, where they interview experts on things like not just not just normal people. So they have they have doctors and scientists. They had Bill Nye on. But the the person I just listened to is Samin Norsat. I I don't I we've talked about the bruschetta bruschetta thing. Her S A M N oh no S A M I N N O R S A T. And she is a author a chef a documentarian type person. So she was on the show and talked about her Netflix miniseries called Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat, of which there is a book of the same title. |
| Everett | Which is so fantastic. So fantastic. Both the Netflix series and the book, both wonderful. |
| Andrew | So I watched Fat today and I was yelling, just yelling while I was watching this because they show she's in Italy for the entirety of the episode. and she's interviewing people who are making olive oil, and then she's at this butcher shop where they're butchering pigs. |
| Everett | And what was the bread? They made a... Focaccia. They made a focaccia bread. That is so wonderful. |
| Andrew | I was yelling noises of pleasure at my television, and I'm watching this guy butcher this hog, and I was screaming at him just with pure, unadulterated joy. And then they have this dinner where they have homemade pasta with ragu and it's traditional Italian. You guys can't see my hand motions, but I'm so excited. |
| Everett | There's a lot. |
| Andrew | There are a lot with this really traditional homemade ragu and all these cured meats and a pig like a whole roast pig. And I know just do yourself four hours of fun and watch this miniseries. |
| Everett | You know, there's more there's more fun than that. So I mean, is this fantastic? I mean, she's just this wonderful human being. And she's a content creator, but the best kind of content creator. Not like Andrew and Everett, where we create content based on stuff we don't really know about. She is such an expert, and she's such a consumer at the same time. And it is really just, in terms of the nerdiness level that gets me off, it's very high level stuff. |
| Andrew | And it's far more than the cooking and the writing. Her story is so great and she is committed to the soup to nuts of food and exploring how food affects everyone in their daily lives, whether it's access or inaccessibility or all the trimmings that go along with the disparity associated with food availability. |
| Everett | And you know, the very idea of the salt fat, you know, it's the idea that, The food we eat, which is so fundamental, right? Everybody eats food. Not everybody is into watches, obviously. Not everybody's into exercise, but everybody is into food. |
| Andrew | Or food's into them. |
| Everett | But yeah, that's true. It's a biological necessity. And she is so forgiving of, you know, all of the proclivities that we have regarding food. And I say forgiving, I don't know that that's the right word, but... Understanding? Understanding. It's just such an incredible exploration into this thing that seems so basic at times. And at the end of the day, it's really not basic. It's this very complex ideology and philosophy, and it's wonderful. Wonderful. Fantastic. I really love that you brought this up. |
| Andrew | I just loved watching it. I could have watched it on mute. |
| Everett | So I've got another thing. |
| Andrew | Do it. |
| Everett | I've got another thing. So my other thing is a book, and this is a book that I don't know that I loved. Uh-oh. I don't know that I loved. |
| Andrew | Was it in English? |
| Everett | Yeah, it was in English. |
| Andrew | Because I can understand if you didn't love a book that was not in English. |
| Everett | Well, it's interesting that you ask if it was in English, because the reason I didn't love it is because it's written in a language that is English, but the subtext of the language is so foreign that at times it was very very difficult to understand. Um, so you start off in this, it's a sci-fi book. So, so I'll just light it up. I'll break the ice. This is a book called nine Fox gambit. |
| Andrew | Okay. It sounds weird. |
| Everett | This is book one of a trilogy called the machineries of empire. This is a book that has won New York times, uh, awards locus award. It's been nominated for the Hugo Nebula, Arthur C. Clarke award. So, very highly regarded book so it should have been good it's fantastic and and when i say i say i didn't love it but i also loved it and the reason i didn't love it is because it was dense it is dense so so just to if you want to turn the podcast off now go ahead although you should stick around because i'm pretty sure that mr sexton's gonna have another thing so wait at least for that but it starts off in a combat scene and a combat scenes in and of themselves are divisive. Some people hate them. Some people hate them. I normally don't love them. They're hard to write, but this is not just a combat scene. It's a combat scene in a world where combat has been completely altered by, uh, a completely, uh, reality defining shift. So it's either in the future or in some alternate universe. And I don't know yet. I actually don't know. the answer to that question. |
| Andrew | But because you haven't finished it or because you haven't finished the trilogy? |
| Everett | I just don't know. I finished the book. I haven't finished the trilogy, but I don't know the answer to that question. What I will tell you is it's very challenging. It's not an easy book to read, but it's so good. It's so good, even as challenging as it was and as hard as it was. It's super duper good. And I blasted through it. You know, that's always my sort of threshold for How good is a book? How hard is it for me to get back into it? |
| Andrew | That's my thing for movies. If I check my watch, I don't like the movie. That's right. On principle, if I check my watch to see how much time has passed, I'm not going to give you a good review. |
| Everett | So this book is not short. And I blasted through it because I want to know what happens next. But there are times when I'm like, what the fuck is happening? Because I have no clue. I don't know what's happening. I literally don't know what's happening in the book. So that's that's some people don't love that. I don't love it. And I'll tell you, that has altered my affection for the book because so many times I didn't know what was happening. I feel like this is a book that I could read five or six times. I think this is going to be one of those books. And as long as the writing keeps up, this is going to be one of those. It's sort of Philip K. Dick. Okay. |
| Andrew | Maybe that's the charm of it is that you don't know if it's an alternate universe or the future. That's something like that. That kind of mystery keeps the Keep some excitement alive. Like, am I working in the past? Am I working in the future? Is this five years from now? Is this Black Mirror times? Is it right? What's happening? |
| Everett | Right. Yeah, it's you know, I I struggle a little bit to I struggle a little bit to talk about things that I'm like on the fence about. And I'm totally on the fence about this book, but I'd recommend it. I think that there's some of you that are going to hate it. I think that there's some of you that are going to be like, that is fucking amazing. I don't know. I think check it out. I read this book. I think it's fantastic. But it's also really hard. So that's my other thing. Jeff, are you there still? Did you just leave us? No, I'm still here. Fantastic. Good to hear. Do you have any other things that you'd like to talk about? |
| Jeff Sexton | Are there things besides watches? |
| Andrew | You know, that's a good mentality to have. |
| Everett | Oftentimes we do that. We say, well, I've got another thing, but it's watch related. And then, and then the other one of us will say, you can't talk about that another thing, but, uh, we'll, we'll give you some leniency here. So, uh, tell us something that you're into that's maybe, uh, indirectly watch related or, or, or not at all watch related. |
| Jeff Sexton | Well, what I'm mostly into is, uh, is either watches or parrots. |
| Andrew | Go on. So, in our pre-talk, we discussed the fact that we might hear your parrot in the background. And I do believe I heard her, yeah? |
| Jeff Sexton | You might have, yeah. |
| Andrew | I heard her once and I loved it. Everett had to mute me because I got a little bit excited. I started laughing. So, he muted my microphone briefly while I composed myself. Does she talk? |
| Jeff Sexton | Oh, yeah. A lot. Yeah. What kind of things have you taught her to say? We have three parrots. Um, we have two cockatiels, which are smaller. Uh, they're very personality heavy birds to don't necessarily talk, but they, but they saying one of them sings tunes quite a bit. |
| Andrew | Like, like mimics tunes? |
| Jeff Sexton | Like what? |
| Andrew | Like, like mimics a tune or, or just, just self-generated. |
| Jeff Sexton | Whistle a tune. Um, yeah. She's learned. Uh, yeah. And then, uh, an African gray parrot is the one that's here. And they're very intelligent. And it's quite an interesting experience to live with an African gray parrot. They're sometimes described as living with a bipolar five year old on crack. |
| Andrew | You know, I was just about to ask how careful like I have a four year old and I had to be, you know, mostly careful about the kinds of things that I say because And even even good things that I say, like I can say, well, things like, well, that was a mistake. That comes back to me. So how careful do you have to be around birds that mimic behavior and sounds? |
| Jeff Sexton | It's mostly about the, you know, the inflection or emotion that you express something. Be careful what you say when you drop something on the floor. |
| Andrew | Oh, yeah. My four year old is really really understands the nuances of different curse words and their contextual appropriateness. |
| Jeff Sexton | That will be picked up on very quickly. |
| Everett | Now, parrots are about as smart as animals come, right? |
| Jeff Sexton | Yeah. Grey parrots in particular will outperform a human nine-year-old child on some cognitive tests. |
| Andrew | That's amazing. What was the worst thing you have accidentally taught one of your birds to say, if you're comfortable telling us? |
| Jeff Sexton | And if not, just maybe a funny thing. I don't really have anything like that. No, there isn't really anything like that It's just more it's just more I am NOT a I haven't been a bird person my whole life This is a fairly recent thing just in the last few years. It's been quite an experience. I can tell you that I mean just because they are so incredibly intelligent you cannot people think their dogs and cats are smart I've had dogs and cats, but that's it's you're in a whole other ballpark here And that's the amazing thing. What they know, what they know about what's going on around them, and they do talk and respond, you know, carry on little conversations and little snippets of back and forth. I mean, you know, my parrot here at the African Grey Harlan is her name. Now, she will, she knows the names of all her favorite foods and will ask for them. She We have an outdoor Avery and she says she wants to go outside. She says when she wants to go for a walk, she says when it's time to go to bed or time to get up or whatever. I mean, she talks a lot and she means what she says. |
| Andrew | When you say on a walk, do you mean she rides your shoulder and you want to walk outside? |
| Jeff Sexton | No, I have a special backpack. Believe it or not. Yeah. I'm the guy walking around the neighborhood with a bird in the back. Yeah. It's a, it's kind of a, it looks like a pet carrier kind of thing, but it's a backpack. It's specially made to be extra durable, um, for, for this kind of bird. Yeah. |
| Andrew | I love that. I want to see it. |
| Everett | Uh, so how, how affectionate are these? |
| Jeff Sexton | It depends. They vary from species to species. Uh, you know, the, the Harlan, uh, gray parrot is, they're kind of a, she's a little bit of a one person bird. Um, she's pretty attached to me. Um, I, she likes to cuddle a little bit. Um, she likes to have her head scratched, um, when she's in the mood for it. |
| Andrew | Sounds kind of like a cat. |
| Jeff Sexton | Like very much on her terms. Or a wife. |
| Andrew | Yeah. Also that. |
| Jeff Sexton | They're not as, physical as a cat say, um, but they're more physical than some people think. Um, the cockatiels, not so much. They used to be when they were younger, they used to be a little more, um, physical, but they're not so much anymore, but that's cause they're two of them and they kind of, um, interact with each other more. |
| Andrew | Now, are these parrots rescues or are they like going to be kind of family heirloom |
| Jeff Sexton | They live for yeah, that is a whole other topic. Okay, then we won't we won't even crack that can of worms They're not they're not rescues but you're absolutely right in that yeah, they have very long lives and People who are interested in having birds in their lives need to take that into account. It's like there's a lot of birds out there that need homes because They outlive their owners, and that's a very real thing, a very real big problem with these animals. There's a lot you could say about this. I mean, it's a deep issue. And we're talking about not the cockatiels, but the African Grey Parrot, like Harlan. I think they've recently been declared functionally extinct in the wild. They are endangered, for sure. Um, and that's, you know, due to habitat depletion and poaching for the pet trade. Um, it is illegal, uh, to, you know, to sell, to, to, to transport parrots across borders for, um, for the pet trade. |
| Andrew | Right. |
| Jeff Sexton | But it does still happen. Now ours are not, they're, ours are not wild caught birds. That's pretty rare in the U S I think is my feeling about it as far as I can tell. But, uh, the Asia and the Middle East are still like hot markets for illegally caught birds. And that's a huge problem. Sure. Huge, huge problem. Uh, and it's really unfortunate, but, um, you know, habitat loss is a real thing. It's happening. I mean, you can't, there isn't a, there isn't a habitat to return these birds to. Yeah. It's gone. I mean, the, the uh wild populations that are non-native in areas where escaped birds like and there's there's large parrot populations in many many states in the united states that are wild that have that are escaped birds they're not native but they live you know as wild populations i was not aware of that yeah they're it's quite common actually especially in um warmer climates but not in some surprising places there's a lot it's in new york state there's a huge population there of different species now, but the, but those and the ones that exist in people's homes are now the principal genetic, uh, diversity pool for many of these species as they, the ones in the wild are just, they've just declined past the point of no return. |
| Everett | Well, you know, I'll tell you, uh, I feel like we probably could have had a complete podcast on, uh, on, These super smart birds. You should see my face right now. |
| Jeff Sexton | Right. |
| Everett | No, we're, we're both a little, we're both a little awestruck. So I think that's fantastic. Well, you'd have to see the bird. Yeah, no, that's right. That's right. Well, you know, maybe next time we get you on, we'll get one of these birds. We'll get one of these birds on, on, on air and figure out what we can do. So Jeff, we're so thankful, uh, that you joined us. Um, I, I, I'd like to, one of the things we do, uh, when we have people on is |
| Jeff Sexton | Give you 30 seconds just sort of plug what you're doing plug where you're at And and just to tell people where to find you tell people what you're about well, I really I really try hard to have everything concisely on the main page you go to make it very easy at Elgin time.com and There's links there to all the major bits of information and how to get a hold of me if you have questions or whatever. And I'm very happy to, even if, uh, even if you've got a watch that isn't necessarily something I work on or something, I'm very happy to try to answer questions about it. And I, I do that all the time. So I get email every day from people about all kinds of strange things. Um, and that's fine too. |
| Everett | ElginTime.com. That's the best way to find you. And can I ask you about this logo? Is that, uh, it looks to me like, uh, like a Led Zeppelin album cover. |
| Jeff Sexton | I've used a couple of different logos. All the logos I've used in the past, including the one I think you're referring to, are Elgin logos. Fantastic. That is Father Time. Now, if you look at it closely, you'll see he's discarding an hourglass and picking up a pocket watch. |
| Andrew | Oh, I thought it was a bag of money. |
| Jeff Sexton | It's a little hard to see. Yeah, that's wonderful. |
| Everett | early days of branding yeah you know it's from that's a 19th century logo wow it's wonderful the idea is that father time is throwing away his hourglass and picking up a modern watch well that that's wonderful jeff thank you so much for joining us uh you know please folks check jeff out on elgin time.com or elgin time at at instagram uh i think it's at elgin time Uh, because there is so much information here and it's just absolutely wonderful. Uh. Encyclopedic. Fantastic. Fantastic. So we're going to cut now because we could just keep going for hours and hours, but thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20. Please feel free to check us out on Instagram at 40 and 20, or if you'd like to support us, patreon.com slash 40 and 20. That's where we get most of the support for the episodes, support us with equipment. Bye bye. Oh, |