Episode 44 - Interview With Darren Tiffany of DM Tiffany Timepieces

Published on Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:16:00 -0700

Synopsis

This podcast features an interview with Darren of DM Tiffany Timepieces, a machinist who crafts handmade watches from his home workshop. Darren discusses his journey into watchmaking, starting with purchasing a benchtop milling machine and teaching himself through YouTube tutorials. He describes the intricate process of machining the cases, dials, and components for his Mark I and upcoming Mark II watches by hand. Darren also shares his plans for a limited production run of the Mark II to fund working with higher-end movements from manufacturers like Vaucher. The hosts and Darren bond over shared interests like the classic film Spaceballs and YouTube machinist This Old Tony.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
Unknown	We are now recording. I'm sorry.
Unknown	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is the 1420 Podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Unknown	I'm doing super. Yeah. I'm doing great. I mean, I'm a little tired. I'm a little tired. I'm exhausted, actually. That's the right word. That's the word I was looking for. I feel like I've used that word before, but I'm exhausted. How are you?
Unknown	Reasonably so. He went on a few short jogs this weekend. That's right. Yeah. How are you? Good. Tired. Had a great weekend. Took the kid up to Portland, left him with with the in-laws for the night. So he had an absolute blast because there's few things better than sleepovers with grandma and grandpa. And the wife and I went home and we just watched TV on the couch and didn't have to worry about how loud it was and didn't have to worry about getting woken up early in the morning.
Unknown	So how amazing is that? How amazing is that to just sit on your couch and not do anything?
Unknown	It's so good. It's so good.
Unknown	It's one of the greatest things in the world.
Unknown	Yeah. It's hard to beat. So. Well, well, good. And so we're drinking some beer. We got some whiskey, some bush lights, some whiskey in the wild turkey variety. This is one on one, right?
Unknown	It is one on one. It's one on one. And it's one on one that you've poured into me and my wife's matching hubby and wifey cups, which I thought was an interesting decision considering there's about 75 coffee cups.
Unknown	And I had to dig to the back of the cupboard to get these.
Unknown	I applaud you for it.
Unknown	Yeah, I thought it was appropriate. We spent a lot of intimate time together. So why not?
Unknown	You did give me the wifey cup to start with and I said that that wasn't acceptable. Yeah, well, it was the fuller one. So well, so we have coffee. We have whiskey. No, excuse me. We have whiskey in coffee cups. We have beer, but we also have something else is kind of fun. Something even better. Something even better.
Darren	We have a guest.
Unknown	So without further ado, because I'm hoping he's still on the line, there's actually a very good chance he's hung up at this point. I wouldn't blame him. I'm hoping Darren of DM Tiffany Timepieces is still there. Darren, how are you?
Darren	I'm doing well.
Unknown	Thanks for having me, guys. And he stayed. And he stayed. Fantastic.
Darren	I'm having a severe taste of deja vu right now.
Unknown	You know, it happens to us oftentimes in this industry, that sense of deja vu. Perhaps there'll be some people listening who know immediately what we're talking about.
Unknown	Yeah. And for those of you who don't, you'll probably hear about it later.
Unknown	So so Darren introduced you but I am sure at this point some of our listeners are saying who is Darren what is DM Tiffany timepieces and why are you on my podcast right now that I'm listening to so by way of a little bit more extensive invitation introduction and then I'll turn it over to you I'm gonna say I first learned of you by way of the Instagram about a week ago maybe not even quite a week ago you followed us I think Scottish watches The very those very nice guys at Scottish watches shouted us out on the Instagram. I think basically just to say hi 40 and 20. You know we're podcast buddies and you guys should check them out. You followed us that morning. I thought I clicked on your page because I always click on these people's pages. You know we get follows. I don't know what 25 a day or so at this point.
Unknown	24 of them are Russian sex bots.
Unknown	Yeah that's right. Inevitably you know these things I always kind of check because you get a lot of sort of kind of some odd stuff, folks that we are not really interested in. Well, I clicked on yours and I was like, holy shit, what is this? And I think what I did was I immediately messaged you and said, oh my gosh, what are you doing? I need you to tell me everything. Please come on the show.
Unknown	He was texting me at the same time about it too. And I got on. I was like, yes, yes, yes.
Unknown	What was your reaction? You get that message from me. I mean, were you, did you freak out a little bit? Like I've got to shut down my Instagram and, and, and, uh, call my credit card companies.
Unknown	Yeah, there's definitely a predator on the loose.
Darren	No, I read the message and I was like, this is it. This is the big time.
Unknown	I made it. All right. All right. All right. That's well played, Darren. So, you know, you're a machinist is what you are. You're a machinist who's making watches in your, I assume, in your home. Is that right?
Darren	That's right. Yeah, down in my garage. I have a little machine shop set up down there, some equipment, milling machine, lathe, some equipment that I've built myself, which is kind of cool. I just finished something on Friday.
Unknown	Some equipment you've built yourself?
Unknown	No, no, wait. I want to get to that. I have a lot of questions. No, we'll get to it. We'll get to it. It's on the list. Tell us more about what got you started here.
Darren	Yeah, so it was back in March of 2018. So I've been collecting watches for a number of years, and getting into modifying some watches, restored a couple vintage timepieces. And I was thinking, you know, I could do this, right? If people in Switzerland in the late 1800s could do this stuff, I could do this. And so I went out and bought myself a little benchtop milling machine. Brought it back home to the garage and set it up and had no idea how to use it. So I watched a couple of hundred hours of YouTube tutorials to figure out how to machine and went out in the garage and made some chips and made some mistakes and made a lot of scrap metal.
Unknown	So is this thing like in the impulse aisle at Best Buy or something? I mean, how do you say you bought them? What does that mean?
Darren	Yes, it's a company, they have a website online, little machine shop.com, they sell benchtop milling machines and benchtop blades and some other machining equipment. And I just said, what's the lowest cost of entry into getting into machining? What do I need? What are the bare essentials that I need? to make a watch case. And so I placed the order online, drove up to Pasadena. I was living in Southern California at the time. So I drove up to Pasadena to their warehouse and brought it back home.
Unknown	And so you immediately went to watch cases. You didn't start with like, I'm going to take this bigger piece of metal and turn it into a slightly smaller piece of metal and create like a shape on it. You went right to the big league.
Darren	Pretty much. Yeah. I mean, I bought the machine to make watch cases. All right. I mean, there was no time like the present.
Unknown	I went in. How many garbage cans got filled with scrap metal, if you don't mind my asking?
Darren	There was a bucket or two.
Unknown	Are you selling it to people who are forging things, like just pushing it on down the line? Because that would be the next hobby I see, is setting up a forge in the backyard. You've got your mill and your lathe in the garage, and now you've got a forge in the backyard. You're just using it in both ends of the usable spectrum.
Darren	I actually have a buddy who is looking to get into forging and I'm trying to convince him to start so he can make me some billets of Damascus and other cool stuff like that.
Unknown	Oh, that would be so cool.
Unknown	You know, are there, are there, I mean, just, just sort of, uh, off the top of your head, are there difficulties in machining Damascus, for instance, to purpose for a watch case?
Darren	Uh, It would really just come down to corrosion resistance. So it depends on which alloys you're using. I know there's a couple of people out there doing some stainless Damascus, and I think that's slightly harder to make. But regular Damascus steel billets are, as long as they're not hardened, it wouldn't be too difficult.
Unknown	All right. I'm intrigued. So you get this machine, you watch a bunch of YouTube videos, and then what? And then what do you do? You just start turning wheels and what? What happens?
Darren	Yeah, that's pretty much it. I, uh, I came up with the design in my head, did a couple of sketches, uh, out on paper and some measurements of what I think I could do. And, uh, went out into the shop and chopped up some stainless steel. So using, uh, on that first watch, I was using 304 stainless, which is a very hard metal. I had to work hard on this really quickly. It was, uh, it was kind of a headache, especially on the first project that I had on the milling machine. But, uh, I persevered through it.
Unknown	Now, 316 is quite a bit easier to tool than 304, right?
Darren	It's still difficult, still really hard, but it is a little easier to machine. It has different characteristics, too, with corrosion resistance and stuff like that.
Unknown	And so I guess before we really roll into the rest of the show, because we may actually have to stop early, but what were the dimensions that you drew out, you know, in particular case diameter for this first, you know, pen and paper watch you designed?
Darren	Yeah, so it was 38 millimeter in case diameter. So I'm a big fan of integrated bracelets, like 70s sports watches like the Royal Oak and the Nautilus and even the new Cuban North flag. So I really liked that case shape, a little more robust, a little more sporty. And so I made an integrated strap for that one. So the actual strap opening is only 10 millimeters, but the actual width of the log is, I think I marked when it was like 24 millimeter.
Unknown	So if we, if you're listening and you're wondering who the heck Darren is, what DM Tiffany is, uh, how do I find this? I just thought, you know, uh, D uh, Oh yeah. At DM Tiffany dot time pieces on the Instagram, you can go to his page, pull up the pictures. If you want to follow along, please pull your car over. Andrew is a budding police officer. He'll be behind you. I won't do anything.
Unknown	As long as you're pulling up his Instagram page, I will do nothing.
Unknown	Yeah, you'll be OK. You'll be OK. So but pull over. So you can see these pictures because, you know, the story that this the Instagram without being explicit about it is telling the story of this development start at the beginning and you can work your way forward. Pretty cool to see some of this stuff. So you had mentioned you you had mentioned the Tudor North flag just a second ago. And that was my immediate reaction when I took a look at your Mark I. And even as the Mark II develops here, that was my immediate sort of reference point. I thought that looks like an awful lot like a Tudor Northlake. Is that an inspiration for you as you're designing this?
Darren	Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think Tudor pulled some inspiration from the 70s era sports watches, but definitely a huge inspiration. I love that watch.
Unknown	That was right where my mind went to. I pulled up a couple, I pulled up a seventies tee. So I was like, this is, this is like, it, it could be from the same era. This is so cool. And this is, I think kind of where, where watch design I hope is trending towards. It's a little bit smaller and that really seventies inspired design, uh, design themes. And I'm digging that you get that you're, you're cashing in on that, on that opportunity that exists right now.
Unknown	You know, I think that, um, integrated lugs sometimes get integrated lugs in and of itself. That phrase is a pejorative sometimes. But we've talked recently on the show about how integrated rubber straps, a rubber strap that's integrated, you know, smartly into a case design, I think that hit, that shared the number one spot.
Unknown	Your number one spot.
Unknown	It was the definitive ranking, so it can't be just mine. That hit the number one spot on our straps and bands episode. What is it that kind of pushed you there? Because it doesn't seem to me like that would be the easiest way to go about what you're doing.
Darren	Right. Yeah, it's definitely not the easiest way. So I think it involves a couple more steps to get something that fits. But what I really like about it is how purposeful it is. So I know that a lot of people love to swap straps out and really changes the feel and look of a watch. But I'm a huge fan of when the designer takes charge of the entire package. And so I'm sure you might not be able to swap out your drawer full of straps onto it, but it's very purposeful. It was really thought out on how the case flows into that bracelet and how it falls on your wrist and how it wears.
Unknown	It displays the watch and I appreciate that sentiment that you're being so deliberate in all the design decisions you're making right down to what you're putting the watch on. There's a lot of instances where what shoes the watch is wearing is an afterthought.
Darren	Exactly.
Unknown	Yeah. Well, and so kind of got some inspiration, kind of got some case. Hopefully these folks are sort of looking through now. So you start designing. When did you finish up the Mark I case?
Darren	So I finished mark one in its entirety, uh, completely assembled and, uh, ready. It was probably the second week of December, December. It was, uh, 2018. Okay.
Unknown	So that's what, like nine months from purchase of your, of your machine equipment.
Darren	Yep. Okay. And I was just working on weekends and evenings and I travel a lot for work. So, uh, really probably just an hour or two hours a week. Ok so that's pretty quick work. And now this was a project for your dad, right? a watch that I was going to make myself and I was going to keep it myself because I didn't know how it would turn out. But as I saw things coming together and when I created the dial and I put the blue candy on that dial, I was like, this needs to go to my dad. My dad really, he's the one who got me into watches. He gifted me a really awesome watch when I graduated from university that means a lot to me. So I just wanted to kind of return the favor of sharing the passion and the love for watches and I gave it to him for Christmas.
Unknown	And he loved it, I assume.
Darren	Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it was it was a complete surprise. So my parents are really supportive of all the work that I'm doing, and they're really excited to see the progress. And when I told them that I was creating an Instagram account to document the progress I'm making on the watch and everything I'm doing in the future. They both created Instagram accounts so that they could follow along. I think I'm the only person that they're following, but every time I see them, they mention, they read the comments that people leave and everything. So they're awesome.
Unknown	That is awesome. That's, uh, you know, I think, uh, you know, people want support from their parents, but it's pretty cool that they just jumped in there, right?
Darren	Yeah.
Unknown	Well, so tell us about the dial because I'm looking at the dial on this thing and this is not a, uh, This is not a run of the mill dial. I tend to think, gosh, if I'm going to make a watch, I'm going to do a painted dial. But you've gone in a different direction with this thing.
Darren	Yeah, I have. And that dial, I love that dial. And it was a labor of love to make that dial. And so I guess I should preface this with everything that I do is all manual machining. So I don't have any CNC equipment Everything I do is turning dials on the milling machine and lathe and work holding and fixturing and setup. Everything is manual.
Unknown	So no software support in this? It's all all your eyeball, your measurements, your design. Wow, that's wow.
Darren	Yeah. Yeah. So it's all a whole lot of math, a lot of trigonometry, figuring out angles as I'm kind of tapering the lugs on the watch case and Figuring out where to put screws in my fixtures and using, so I have a digital readout so I can accurately trace my X, Y, and Z movement to 10 thousandths of an inch. So I have a digital readout that shows me my location and I can use that to find my coordinates and move from there really precisely. But it's all by hand and in my head and written down on my whiteboard. I have a ton of math problems written on there and trigonometry figuring out angles.
Unknown	It looks like Russell Crowe's office in a beautiful mind. Just magazine pictures of watches all over the place and the wax marker on the window. Yeah.
Unknown	Feel free to, we have a Dropbox right outside our house if you do feel like dropping anything off that we'd be happy to pass on to anyone for you. Talk to me a little bit more about the design decision behind the dial? Because this is one of the coolest dials I've ever seen.
Darren	Oh, thanks, man. Thanks. So if you guys are familiar with guilloche, so it's engine turning that's done on a road engine lathe. And I didn't have one at the time. And so I needed to figure out how I could replicate that kind of geometric pattern work and that diamond release pattern on my manual benchtop milling machine. And so the way that I set it up is I had a cutter, it's called a boring head. And so it moves your cutter eccentrically. So I had a 90 degree engraving bit that was offset by 13 millimeters. And then I had the dial set up on my rotary table eccentrically. So I would make one 13 millimeter cut and then I would rotate my rotary table by three and a half degrees. So there's 60 circles that are cut that overlap each other and create that diamond release pattern. It probably took me with setup and everything, probably like seven, six and a half, seven hours to get that set up and get the final product.
Unknown	That is an insane amount of dedication.
Unknown	It's totally worth it, because we've probably watched this video of you showing the how the lights bouncing off this dial. I've I mean, just today, even since you've been talking, I've watched it a dozen times. You'll get you'll get an extra 100 views tonight just just from me. So let's hope so. No, you will. I'm going to keep watching this. It's on a loop. It is. It is so cool.
Unknown	And so so you do this. Mark one. you do it on your benchtop mill, but this is as good a time as well. Well, maybe, maybe we stopped there. So, because you're not still in California, right? No, I'm not.
Unknown	So, what happened? Did California, California you and you invited yourself to leave?
Darren	Yeah, kind of. So, I moved to California in 2016 for work and I've been with the same company since 2010.
Unknown	And what was work? And what was work? You don't have to say where you worked, but what were you doing before this?
Darren	I was in corporate finance.
Unknown	Yeah, that checks. Pretty significant difference from working a milling machine. I'm following you though.
Unknown	I'm following you. Keep going.
Darren	Well, I still work for the same company. So I still have a full time job. So everything I do is still evenings and weekends.
Unknown	That's the best way to do it. Projects of passion. Yeah. So you got to relocate out to somewhere else. Where are you at now?
Darren	Yeah, so I actually have the... So I work remotely now. And so I had the opportunity to live wherever and continue working. And so I really wanted to kind of take my hobby to the next level and potentially turn into a business and that's kind of in the near future here. So I decided to go all in and I needed to get some capital and I needed more space.
Unknown	So you literally sold... You literally sold all of your worldly possessions and moved to the desert. Yeah. So I'm talking about.
Darren	Yeah. So I lived in Arizona before, so it was an easy transition back. So I sold my house in California, freed up some capital, bought a less expensive, much nicer house in Arizona. I got a three car garage now. And so I have a one bay in the three car garage that's entirely set up as my machine shop. So that's where the magic happens nowadays.
Unknown	You know, in cribs where the magic happened was always the bedroom, but when you're talking to... Oh, not in my house.
Unknown	I was hoping you were going to say that three car garage was entirely allocated to your workshop, but I imagine it's going to grow. So yeah, maybe soon. Already, right?
Darren	Yeah, if I didn't have a strong addiction to cars like I do to watches, then maybe that would be the case.
Unknown	Well, very cool, man. So you sold all your worldly possessions, you moved to Arizona, and you don't still just have a benchtop mill. No. First, you purchased some equipment. Let's, for now, stick to the equipment you've purchased.
Darren	Yeah. So when I bought my new house in Phoenix, one of the first things I did was order a lathe. Because like I mentioned, I've been working on a milling machine, making round parts on a milling machine is not the easiest or the most precise way to make round parts. So I figured I just got to go all in, I got to get a lathe. And so I was looking at some benchtop lathes that would match my benchtop milling machine. And I said, they just don't have enough weight. I need something heavier that can make better cuts in stainless and easier threading operations. And so I ordered a lathe from a company called Grizzly to shipped it from the Pacific Northwest. And so I purchased it. The next week, UPS freight pulled up in front of my house and gave me a 1200 pound package that I had to figure out how to get into the shop and set up on its stand.
Unknown	They didn't pallet jack it into your garage for you? They just left it at the curb?
Darren	No, they pallet jacked it up into the driveway. And then I had to use my engine hoist to pick it up and move it into the garage and onto the stand.
Unknown	And did somebody help you? Or I'm picturing you in your garage or in your driveway just swearing.
Darren	You must have been there.
Unknown	That's how I got a gun safe into the house. Just me.
Unknown	Well, fantastic. So you purchased a lathe and now you've got a lathe and you're able to turn stuff. But you also got a mill recently too, right?
Darren	I did. Yeah. So I was working on another project, uh, that is watch related, but it wasn't a watch case. And I met the limitations of my benchtop milling machine. I was trying to, to bore a, uh, one in a quarter inch hole through a one inch piece of steel. And it just wasn't happy. It was, uh, it was about to give up the go. And so I, uh, pulled the bandaid off and ordered a, uh, a Bridgeport style new milling machine. And, uh, Again, the freight company pulled up and they pallet jacked a close to 2000 pound package into my garage and then I got to pull it off the crate and off the pallet and set it up in the garage. But very glad that I did that. It has made my life a whole lot easier.
Unknown	And so now you've got, you know, probably a professional grade mill and you've got, it sounds like a small shop professional grade lathe. But you still didn't have everything you needed.
Darren	Yeah, you're right. So I love the dial design that I did on that milling machine. And it replicated DOJ as well as I could at the time. But the limitations were there. I couldn't do any other patterns or anything more intricate. And so I started looking around online to find a rose engine for sale. And for those who aren't familiar, a rose engine is basically a a hand-operated lathe, so it's all manual, there's no electronics on it whatsoever, that has a spindle that's on some pivots, and so it kind of copies some discs that are on the spindle, so you can replicate some really intricate patterns as you're engraving into a watch dial. And so most of the machines that are out there are from the late 1800s or early 1900s, and They are pretty penny. So they go for a clean one in good condition is upwards of $30,000, $35,000 for a hand operated machine. And so that was too rich for my blood. Yeah, it was too rich for my blood. Uh, there's a really awesome guy, um, out in the East Coast who makes new ones. Uh, they're really expensive as well. Uh, and I decided to just man up and make my own.
Unknown	I mean, you've got a mill and a lathe. You kind of have everything. you need for the most part, right? To be able to machine something like that. So why not? You've already taken on this whole project and, and YouTube your way through it and trial and error your way through it. So why not? Let's just build more stuff.
Darren	Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You gotta, you gotta make what you need. And so, uh, I spent the last couple of months of this year, uh, working on that Rose engine lathe. Uh, and I just finished it on Friday night. this past Friday night. So I've been turning some guilloche on some brass and some German silver and nickel silver and spamming my Instagram account with it. I'm sure people are getting sick of it by now, but I'm just, you know, I don't believe that for a second.
Unknown	Actually, you know, your Instagram account is pretty conservative in terms of you spam. You need to be posting, I think, probably about 10 times as much stuff from just so I can see it. So that's like I'd love to get to that point. You know, watching this thing, watching this thing operate is insane. When when I sort of checked out, I checked out for a couple of days this week, and when I checked out, none of this stuff was there. And then I came back and there's all this awesome content. So so tell it. So, I mean, describe the Rose machine a little bit more and then tell us what it does. How does this make your life easier?
Darren	Well, I would say make my life and Yeah, yeah. So the Rose engine produces a process called DOJ. And so DOJ has been using watchmaking since the 1700s. I think Breguet had his own DOJ in house that would do the DOJ work for him. And so basically what it is, is you're copying some pattern disks that are on the lathe and the lathe is on some pivot points on the spindle. And so as you turn the wheel, your entire spindle turns and the patterns run along what's called a rubber or follower and so it kind of follows the pattern on the outside of that disc and it induces a oscillation in your spindle and so you have a cutter that's fixed in place and it's operated by hand so it's on a slide so I have mine on some linear bearing And so you push the cutter in to the work to actually engrave or cut the pattern. So you cut one ring around the outside. So I start from the left and work my way towards the center. So you cut your first path around the outside and then you advance what's called the cross slide. So your cutter's mounted on a cross slide that moves.
Unknown	We're totally following you. We're following you 100%.
Unknown	We're watching it happen, actually, as you're explaining it. And it kind of makes sense. As you're listening to this, y'all, watch the video of it occurring. And it's... I'm tracking, actually, as surprising as that sounds for those of you who know me pretty well.
Darren	It's a lot easier. Yeah, it's really a simple machine when you look at it. But when somebody asks you to describe how it works, especially over the phone, it gets really difficult and the technical jargon kind of drowns out the process.
Unknown	I've actually got one specific question about the machine. And then, you know, I suppose we'll probably have to move on. But there's these four, well, there's five pieces of machined stock that are sort of close to the wheel. And the first one looks like it's some sort of indexing machine. But then we have these increasingly wide Uh, you know, each ring has an increasingly wide segment to it. Um, that looks, you know, I don't know. I'll just, I'll just let you tell me what's happening there with those increasingly wide segments. What, what are they doing? How do they sort of operate? How do they interface with the rest of the machine? What's happening here?
Darren	Yeah, so those are what's called rosettes. And so the rosettes are your pattern disk. And so mine are just really basic waves. And so each ring has a different number of waves. And I created those all on a manual milling machine. And so I have one that has 120 different sine waves on a bump around the outside of it, and then one that has 60, one that has 72, and then one that has 36. And so those are on a spindle carriage. And so they can unscrew or come off and I can swap them out if I get different pattern discs or want to do any different patterns or anything with a different number of waves. And so those are what is creating the pattern that's being engraved onto the dial. And so I have a bearing that's set on a tower that I built that's off the left hand side. And so as the spindle turns, the bearing is fixed and those rosettes will ride along the bearing. So every time there's a peak in the wave on the outside of the rosette, the spindle will move to the right a little bit further. Hopefully I'm explaining this well enough to make sense.
Unknown	It makes sense to me. I follow.
Unknown	Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things, right, that it's going to be tough to convey. You've got quite a bit of cool stuff on your Instagram for people to look at. And if they're mechanically inclined or visual learners, they might have a better idea. But yeah, you're right. It's a little tricky. You know, it's probably one of those things you have to see in person.
Unknown	Yeah. So we've got the Mark 1 complete, gifted to dad. You're on to the Mark 2 now, yeah?
Darren	I am. Yeah. So I've been working on Mark 2 for a couple of months now. And I have a couple of goals that I set for Mark 2 that I want to achieve. And so I wanted to keep the same 38 millimeter case diameter, but I wanted to make it significantly thinner. So Mark one was fairly thick. I think it was close to 13 millimeters thick. And I changed movement. So Mark one has an ETA 2824. Mark two has an ETA 2892. And it's a significantly thinner movement. So the prototype that I have of Mark two is 8.33 millimeters thick. Whoa. So it's super thin. for an automatic watch. And so does the case back. And so they have grooves that are cut into them that house silicone O-rings. So it's gasketed front and back, screw down crown. So I'll probably build my own pressure chamber to test its water resistance. Cause why not? Exactly. Right. Why not? I'm this deep already. I gotta keep going. So yeah, so that's a mark two. And so as I'm building, the a bezel. I'm also making a basically a aluminum hub that the bezel will screw into and I can do machining operations on the outside of it. Same thing with the case back and same thing with the case. So I'll be able to make each process repeatable. Right. And so the plan is to do a limited production run by the end of this year. So I don't have much time left in the year. So I got to get back out in the garage.
Unknown	Do you mean the end of 2019 when you say the end of this year?
Darren	Yeah, the end of 2019. So by December 31, I want to have some pieces available for sale.
Unknown	Okay, so we've got a short term. What is your long term for that? So if you're trying to have a limited run of pieces available for this year, what are you looking at for next year and say the next five years?
Darren	Yeah, so this year I want to have between 15 and 20 watches available for the market and for people to buy. I'm planning on using the capital from selling those watches to reinvest in kind of building the company from the ground up. So i love using the edit movement but limited supply and everything i'm buying is kind of at retail because i'm buying such a low quantity so there are some movement manufacturers that i want to work with that kind of elevate the entire experience and so there's something called voucher. who is owned by Hermes and they make movement for Richard Mille and Parmigiani and a number of other fantastic watchmakers. And they actually sell limited quantities to independent watchmakers. So it's kind of a match made in heaven. So they have minimum order quantities and they need to build capital in order to meet those minimum quantities. So that's kind of what this first production run is really funding.
Unknown	So the Mark I, going to use the ETA movement. And then the idea is that come Mark two, you'll be able to level up in terms of sort of a, a, a small boutique style makers movement then.
Darren	Yeah. So Mark two, excuse me, excuse me.
Unknown	Mark two, Mark three. Yep. I just got my marks wrong.
Unknown	And your, your goal is to go wholly in house. I mean, short of the movement, cause I mean, I suppose, Just knowing the little bit that I know about you, making movements doesn't seem too far out of the realm of possibility. But for now, you're going to push a final product to consumers, starting with raw materials and only outsourcing movement and hands, really. And crystal. Yeah, exactly.
Darren	Yeah, so Mark 2 will have an edit movement and then I'm sourcing hands and applied indices and the screw down crown because I don't have the ability to make that in-house yet. But everything else is handmade and so that's kind of the goal is I want to make as much as I can in-house which will probably be hands and indices in the near future as well.
Unknown	I don't know if you even need that with that dial. I'd be totally cool without indices.
Unknown	Yeah, I mean, so then just maybe to sort of, because I think, you know, everybody's asking the question right at home. If I were going to try to buy one of your Mark II production run, how much money am I going to need to talk my wife out of freeing up for me?
Darren	Yeah, that's a great question. So I acknowledge that I'm a nobody in the watchmaking world yet. So are we. And so this first run is really just kind of building my brand and getting my name out there and giving myself the opportunity to network with people. And so I'm planning on pricing it for around $4,000, probably like $39.95, which is a lot of money when you're talking about the affordability of watches. But in my opinion, and I don't know how you guys feel about it, I think there's a lot of value in a handmade piece. And it's really a unique piece because each one will have different patterning on the dials and different colorways and different finishing on the case. So I'm building everything how I want to, as many times as I can, and if people want to buy it, that's awesome. But yeah, to answer your question, around four grand for this first production run, and then whatever the future holds, we'll all make some decisions on that.
Unknown	Yeah, no, I mean, you're obviously not doing the same thing that Seiko or, you know, Citizen or Timex is doing. You're doing something different, right? So there's just a different consideration. Totally handmade, totally made by a dude who's figured this out and is making a craft, a loving piece of of jewelry in his house and probably soon in a factory, right?
Unknown	Hopefully. And whose fingerprints on this first run, your fingerprints are going to be on this. So I mean, that is awesome. It doesn't sound crazy to me at all. That seems right in the realm of possibility. Right. Right. Right. In the realm of where I What's kind of expecting to hear you hear you say?
Darren	Yeah. Yeah. And so you mentioned in a factory, but I think that kind of goes away from, from the passion that I have for it. So as long as I possibly can, I want to continue to make things by hand and in house myself.
Unknown	And I guess when I say a factory, I just mean a machine shop, uh, that's, that's maybe in a, in a place where your wife doesn't have to listen to you banging all day.
Darren	She's awesome about it. She's really supportive.
Unknown	She's taking some of these pictures, right?
Darren	She has, yeah. I got her a camera for her birthday last month.
Unknown	What'd you make her or where'd you buy her? What'd you make her? You made the camera, right?
Darren	Yeah, I made it from Scotch. I think I got her a Nikon D3500.
Unknown	Fantastic. I love that camera. That's such a cool camera. Well, Okay, so awesome. So we've got we've got pending production run. We've got and that's happening now ish. We've got long term plans. What else? What else should we we know about what dm Tiffany is the brand where you're going in the immediate future?
Darren	Yeah, that's a great question. So the reason that I put my name on the brand is because It's kind of a insurance policy that I will be providing the very best product that I can produce and supporting that product through its lifespan. So that's the reason I've attached my name to it directly instead of going with an arbitrary brand name. And so it's a lot of work that goes into each watch. I'm really excited to get some pieces out into the market. I have some people that have expressed interest with me, but I guess What I really want to do is get out into the community. So Arizona has an awesome group of guys that get together every month, but there's really only 10 15 of us to get together. It's nothing like some of these other metropolitan areas. So I really want to get out there and network with some people and attend some events and some Red Bar and Chrono group events out in different cities and kind of bring some watches with me to share with the people. in a different market and kind of just get out there. So I encourage everybody, if you check out my Instagram, if you're in a different market, if you know of some cool event coming up in the next four to five months, just to reach out to me. I'd love to go out there and attend some events and network with some people and meet some people. I really want to get out into the community a little bit more.
Unknown	That's the way to do it. I mean, that's, I think, I mean, it's exciting to me to talk to a watchmaker who is so willing to stand by their product. I mean, you're more than welcome to come over to our studio guest bedroom office area and hang out and drink beers with us. But that's super cool. I highly encourage you just to echo it. Get him out here. If he's willing to come, come just to see his watches. I want to see one of these in person. Yeah, me too. I just want to see that dial in person. If you just send a dial, that would keep me occupied for days. I'd be like a toddler with it. Get it all drooly.
Darren	setting two pieces aside that will be quote-unquote press pieces that I can send to people to review or to check out or talk about on their podcast. I'd be thrilled to send one.
Unknown	Now we're talking. We would love to host it. Now we're talking. This is why we're in the business, right?
Unknown	Yeah. So you talked to us a little bit about a special gift watch. And one of the things that we'd like to hear about is what kind of What are you rocking on the wrist? What kind of, what's your watch collection look like? Some, some favorites, some, some general themes in it. Some, you know, drop some names, if you will.
Darren	Yeah. So I have that Rolex Air King 5500 that my dad gave me. That's brand new in the box from the late eighties up until 2012. That's so cool. He didn't, he didn't wear it. No, no. It's that brand new in the box. Your dad loves you so much more than all my kids. So that's definitely my favorite, most sentimental piece. Right now I'm wearing my Monte SkyQuest. So the guys at Monte are awesome. So I met them up in San Francisco. I actually missed the windup watch fair by a day. I was going up there for business. I missed it by a day and I reached out to them on the way. I was planning on meeting you guys, but I'm not going to make it. And they're like, Hey, we'll be in the airport at this time. If you want to meet up, hit me up. And I was like, yeah, for sure. And so I met up with them and they showed me some pieces that they had just unveiled. They just unveiled the SkyQuest and I got to check it out and handle it. I placed an order, a pre-order for one that night. And those guys are just... That good, huh? I love hearing their stories. Yeah, it's a fantastic watch. I beat the hell out of it and it keeps going. Really? We need to get our hands on one of those.
Unknown	Shout out to Monta. Yeah, you know, we've talked about their watches a number of times on the show. They're, you know, a little bit pricier than our normal timepieces that we talk about. But they're they're just such a cool company, what they've done and where they came into the market and how they sort of transitioned into the brand we know today is just such a neat story. And they're making the best, I think, at that price range, the best watches you can buy. Oh, yeah.
Darren	Far enough. Yeah, they're fantastic. I love that thing. What else do I have? I have A vintage chronograph. It's a rose gold. It's from a company called Titus. It's not around anymore.
Unknown	Oh yeah. Very cool watches though.
Darren	40s. Yep. Yeah. So I have that. I never wear it, so I'll probably get rid of it soon. I have a Universal Genie pole ruder jet, which I don't wear very often. A smaller dress watch. I just don't really have the occasion to wear it. What else? I have a Seiko that my dad gave me. It's a Seiko kinetic. Oh, titanium bracelet, titanium case. Uh, but the coolest thing about it, it has, uh, the day in Arabic. I was actually born and raised in Saudi Arabia.
Unknown	That's a whole other interesting story that I'm now very curious about, but we can keep going through watches.
Darren	Yeah. Yeah. So I have that, uh, I have a, uh, devil diver from Caraval. It's basically a full of a, but what's really cool about it is on the bottom of the dial, uh, it says West Germany.
Unknown	Oh, so it's one of the OGs. That's amazing.
Darren	Yeah, yeah. So I restored that one, brought it back from its early gray. So that one's pretty cool. And that's pretty much it.
Unknown	That's a good lineup. So when you say you restored that Devil Diver, what what does that restoration process look like? I mean, how much of it was done in your machine shop against how much of it was just done through some TLC?
Darren	Yeah, so I didn't do any machining on the case. I just block sanded and polished the bevels back into it to really sharpen out the bevels and redid the graining on the front of the case and swapped the bracelet out and cleaned up the crystal, replaced the gasket on the bezel, brought it back to life. The movement was in great shape. It keeps great time. So luckily I didn't have to really crack into the movement or send it off to get fixed. That's lucky. Yeah.
Unknown	How about the watchmaking aspect of this? Is that something you're looking into learning more about?
Darren	Yeah, definitely. So I mean, I've done some regulation and some basic movement, maintenance, but definitely not my forte. So I would love to, at some point in the future, get more into it and learn a little bit more. But right now, it's really the assembly regulating. And then when I do that production run, I'll probably bring in a third-party watchmaker to just go over everything with a fine-tooth comb and ensure that we're putting out the very best that we can.
Unknown	All right, so I think I'll ask you just one more question and then we'll probably transition into other stuff. And maybe this question is kind of other stuff, but who is your favorite watch, excuse me, machining YouTuber go?
Darren	My favorite machining YouTuber?
Unknown	Yes.
Darren	This old Tony. It's the best, right?
Unknown	He's the best. He's totally fantastic. We talked about him on the show. I'm so glad you know this old Tony. I didn't hear that. I love that dude. You know, I don't know when we talked about him, but it was pretty early on. He was my other thing one week, and I was like, these videos are totally irrelevant to anything I care about, and they're still so much fun. I've sent them to my mom in the past, and I was like, you're going to love this. She's like, why are you sending me this?
Unknown	But also not, because we could also, either one of us, very possibly be in the same position that you're in, Darren, and a little bit on a whim, start machining in our garage.
Unknown	Looking at your history, though, I'm glad we went into podcasting. Yeah, us too. This old Tony's fantastic.
Darren	As you guys are in Phoenix, you definitely got to come by and operate the mill and you guys can turn some dials on the road engine. Oh gosh.
Unknown	I won't break anything though, will I? Like it's harder to break than it is to not break.
Darren	I can just invoice you guys for it.
Unknown	Okay. Yeah, no, that's fine. Fantastic. We've got huge bank accounts. We talk about this all the time. So do you have a favorite this whole Tony video?
Darren	Ooh, that's tough. I don't know if I could say I have a favorite. They're all just that good, huh?
Unknown	Yeah. You know, I'll say I'll say mine. And I don't know if it's I think it's actually two videos, but he does a CNC tutorial, but using a an Etch A Sketch or vice versa. Yeah. Programming an Etch A Sketch. Just so cool because he's doing essentially the same thing you are. But but upping the ante with CNC. a
Darren	That is on my arm. It's surrounded by other tattoos. It's a sleeve now. But, uh, yeah, that's actually, uh, exploded movement from that, uh, move manufactured voucher. So it's a micro rotor movement. Yeah. It was pretty cool. Cause I got it done and I tagged them on it and then they reposted it and they reached out to me, uh, and kind of shared the story. I like, you know, reassuring myself that, This is what I'm really passionate about. This is where the direction I want my life to go and just setting it in stone.
Unknown	You know, that's too cool, man. I love that. When I was scrolling through the first time when I've sent me your Instagram account, I was like, that man has a watch movement tattooed on his arm. That's like this guy's legit. You don't do that half assed. Like that's that's as real as it gets.
Darren	You get real strict on a test or something.
Unknown	Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that'd be perfect. I mean, that and that also, you know, lends itself to you can start making movements and you can just reference your arm for
Unknown	Exactly. For measurements. But if you're going to go to watchmaking school, they'd probably make you wear long sleeved shirts so you don't cheat. Yeah. Maybe not. I don't know how that works. Watchmaking school. So maybe not. I don't like I'm smart enough for that. Maybe that's allowed.
Unknown	Maybe. I mean, I don't know why it wouldn't be. All right. So that level of commitment. Exactly.
Unknown	That's how you get in. So other stuff we like, Andrew.
Unknown	What do you got? I've got something that's not television. It's not television? Nor is it a movie.
Unknown	I don't know, this is going to be, this is going to be awkward.
Unknown	So for those of you who are a little bit heartburn-y, I'm heartburn-y right now, unrelated, but. I'm kind of heartburn-y too. It's the whiskey. Who have been a little bit heartburn-y about our lack of everyday carry material recently. I've had occasion this last week and a half to use a flashlight a lot. And I have an enormous like what if are you peeping are you peeping tom you don't use flashlights for that i use night vision for that and okay okay so it's not that no no no i i wouldn't use a flashlight for that uh for those of you who if you imagine a mag light i have one of those like the old d cell mag lights i have one of those but it's not a d cell and it's a whole lot brighter but it's heavy it like it's carrying around a a metal pipe with a battery in it that puts out a bunch of light but i've had occasion to use a handheld light quite a bit and i've used a lot of handheld flashlights in my life as a result of my jobs. But I've started using a light that I've had for a while, and I haven't had a real opportunity to put it through the paces, if you will. And for the last week and a half, I've been using my Surefire 6PX Tactical a lot, like probably 30 hours of runtime. And it is maybe, I'm pretty comfortable saying this, it's the last flashlight.
Unknown	The last flashlight you'll ever own.
Unknown	I will continue to buy this flashlight. I may transition to the Pro, but the 6PX Tactical may be my last flashlight. It's $85 on the Amazon. It puts out 600 lumens right out of your hand, and it's handheld. It's like 10 inches. I think the dimensions on the Amazon are 4x2x10.
Unknown	So how does that compare to like a car headlight?
Unknown	I mean, a car headlight's attached to my car. It's the size of a thimble. Alright, keep going. What kind of dumb ass question is that? The only complaint I have, and it's corrected from the tactical version to the pro version, is the only permanent on, the only on, is a twist cap. So the 6PX Tactical, handheld light, momentary on with a push press of the tail cap, or twist on for hold on. The pro version has a momentary on with a half click, full-on click to turn it on, or a tail cap twist. This light is so money. It is the sun. I mean, 600 lumens was a little bit less than I thought that I needed. It holds up. Aluminum body, because you had that Streamlight Polytech. And I wasn't a huge fan of the resin case. I dig the aluminum case. It's got a little bit of a bell on the end for its for its light end so it's easy to manipulate in your hand in the dark because obviously if you're using a flashlight in the daytime there's something wrong uh great grooves for your fingers hold you get a great purchase on it the size is perfect you hold you grasp it in your hand every time you get a good purchase on it it goes right where it needs to press the tail cap that bitch is on i love this flashlight and for 85 bucks from surefire come on yeah it could be my last light you know the reason i use the polytech is because i run with it and so i drop it
Unknown	All the time. So if it's an aluminum case, it's going to get bungled.
Unknown	But the Polytech does also have a clip. There is no clip on the six PX. So you have to have like a holster. I don't have a kydex for it. I have some slots like Molly slots for to go or my pockets. It's it's not that great in the way of an EDC for normal clothing individuals. I don't wear normal clothes to work. I don't need a flashlight when I'm not at work. It works for me.
Unknown	You're in one of like three professions in the world where you can wear a belt, a bat belt.
Unknown	Yeah. Refer to it as my bat belt. So much shit on it. So much. So that is my other thing. Check out this light. If you, if, if you have any reservations about it, you can reach out to us. I will sell it probably harder than any surefire representative. I love this light and I use this light and I will continue to use this light. Very cool. Very cool. The Polytac's pretty dope too. I might buy one and do side by side with it.
Unknown	And the Polytac's made by Streamlight and I think I actually have an older iteration. I think they've updated it, but yeah, fantastic light too.
Unknown	They make some good lights. That's what I have on my gun. I have the TLR. Was that a complete thought? Yeah. I have the TLR. I have a Streamlight TLR on my gun. I like that light too, but I don't want to talk about guns here. I don't know. Maybe I should. I don't know.
Unknown	I just made it weird. What you got? I know you've made it weird, man. I'm sorry. We're going to have to stop here. So my other stuff is also not a television show or a podcast or a YouTube channel. It's nothing that you can consume sitting on your butt. Not even a donut. Not even a donut. So I did a relay race this last weekend. And the race that I did is Hood to Coast. And this is the, you know, I think we mentioned it last week, but this is kind of the granddaddy of the big relay race. It's a 12 man relay race that starts at Timberline on Mount Hood and finishes at Seaside, Oregon. So it's 199 mile relay race. You have 12 man teams. Everybody does three legs. So 36 legs and they vary in distance from about four miles to about eight miles is the longest. Um, and golly, I've done this, I think nine times and it's so much stinking fun. And, you know, I think that there are many of these across the country now. It used to be that it was like hood to coast and maybe one or two other sort of wannabes. And now they have just tons of them that, you know, every state has a couple of similar type of deals. I strongly recommend if you're inclined to even just go out and do something that's kind of hard and have fun with your friends. It's such a fun experience. You get in a van. Everybody's sweaty. You run and that's painful. And some people don't like that. But like me. Yeah, and you don't like it. I think you would love hood to coast, though, because it's so I'll drive the van. Well, OK, so maybe you could just drive the van, but you get this sort of, you know, shared misery kind of camaraderie and you're you're up all night and you're driving and it sounds miserable on paper. But then when you actually do it, it's this like really kind of, you know, pseudo masochistic, but it's just a blast. You show up at a van exchange and there's people, you know, a team of six dudes or 12 dudes, you know, all wearing matching red dresses and blaring, you know, Rick Astley from a boombox. And, you know, it's just fun and goofy. And, you know, at one point I had run my leg. It was like a kind of a five mile leg straight up a mountain. I'd run my leg. I'd gotten back in the van, and it's just, just probably about a half hour before dawn, and I'd run my leg, got in the back of the van, and we drove to the next exchange. You know, you drop your runner off, you drive to the next exchange. I'd gotten in the van, and I had to take my shorts off right away, because if I sit in the shorts I've just run in, I'll chafe, and then the rest... You get swamp acid, and that's the whole thing. It's terrible. It's terrible. So I take off my shorts, I'm sitting in the back of the van, and I, you know, pull on underwear. That's fine. We get to the next, we get to the next exchange. Meanwhile, we haven't slept. it's four o'clock in the morning. Um, you know, the sun's just sort of coming up, so you can't really see anything yet. And we park, you know, probably about a, uh, you know, 500 meters from the actual exchange. And the guy who's going to run next gets out and he runs over there and our guys coming soon. I get out of the van and me and another guy started walking over to the exchange. And I reached down to get, um, I reached down to get something out of my pocket. I can't remember what, cause it doesn't matter. And I realized I can't find my pocket because I'm just wearing underwear. I'm just wearing underwear and a t-shirt. And at this point, we're probably about 200 meters away from the van. And I had that moment where I freaked out. You know, it's like everybody's sort of everybody's had that nightmare. Literally, every human has had that nightmare where you show up to school and you're just wearing underwear and everybody's laughing at you. That's that happened to me.
Unknown	Oddly, I haven't had that nightmare.
Unknown	Really? Really? What about you, Darren? You've had that nightmare?
Darren	Oh, yeah.
Unknown	Yeah.
Darren	It sounds like that's kind of like normal Pacific Northwest activity.
Unknown	Yeah, just walking around in your underwear. Well, there was a naked bike ride, Eugene, the other day. I was downtown. I literally got stopped by it three times as I was trying to cross downtown. It's like a half a mile ride. And just the way they were blocking off roads, there's just naked people driving in front of me. I was like, what? Why? Why? Can you imagine it chafing on that one? Oh, my gosh. I would rent a bike for that. I wouldn't want my bare ass on a bike seat, on my bike seat.
Unknown	So, yeah, that I mean, that happened. I actually did go back to the van and put on sweatpants, but no, I don't think anybody even noticed. Right. It was dark. It was dark. It was light enough at that point that everyone's focused.
Unknown	It hurts. Life hurts at that point. They're not noticing you and your undies. That's right.
Unknown	That's right. Anyway, long story short, because if you had the opportunity, I think it's a wonderful opportunity to come out to Oregon. We start on a Friday. You finish on a Saturday. You can spend the night in Seaside. come out a week early and check out Portland or whatever you want to. But super fun. Wonderful race. I totally recommend it. Darren, you're on the show. You're obligated to have another thing. Go.
Darren	Yeah. So unlike you guys, I do have a cinematic masterpiece that I hope you guys have seen. Baseball.
Unknown	Oh, my God. Oh, boy. You are my hero. So.
Darren	So earlier this week, a look. I've never seen that movie. I was like, Oh my God, we're watching that movie tonight. So we searched on Apple TV and it's on Hulu. So if you have Hulu, you got Spaceballs. So I encourage everybody to watch Spaceballs on Hulu. Uh, I have really fond memories. I grew up watching, uh, Melbrook movies and Monty Python, that kind of stuff. And I remember my parents having Spaceballs on laser disc. Yeah.
Unknown	Fantastic.
Darren	So I'm not as old as LaserDisc, but we had it on LaserDisc.
Unknown	Your parents had LaserDisc after LaserDisc fell out of popularity for the year and a half that it was in popularity?
Darren	We lived overseas. Oh, okay.
Unknown	No, that's fair.
Darren	Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, yeah, it's just a great movie to recommend watching, especially with the parody aspect of it. I think it still rings true with the Disney bullshit that's going on with Star Wars today and merchandising and If you don't, shame on you. I'm comfortable saying that.
Unknown	You know, my dad was a big young Frankenstein fan growing up. So we watched that movie, you know, probably a billion times. And, you know, Blazing Saddles, just everything that guy made was totally fantastic.
Unknown	I work with a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. I work with a lot of people who are not significantly younger than me, but are there's in that difference between I mean, I'm 30. But the difference between me at 30 and say like a 24, 25 year old, there's like a little bit of a miss there, like things that you just weren't quite old enough to get. And I made a Mel Brooks reference the other day and only like none of them got it. It was they looked at me like I was the asshole. I was like, come on, you really like, no, this is unacceptable.
Unknown	We're doomed. Yeah. You know, you start to at some point you just start to feel old, right? So Andrew and I know each other from ROTC. And when when I was in ROTC, I was, what, seven years older than everybody else in the class.
Unknown	I would say probably closer to 17. Oh, you know, that's what I OK.
Unknown	And, you know, they call me Papa Ev because it just was so apparent because we were 20. Right. You know, it's just I would make these like references and they'd be like, oh, Papa Ev reminiscing about the old times. So, well, fantastic spaceballs. You did really well. I applaud your your addition to the other stuff for the episode. Thank you. Well done. I guess with that, we're going to we're going to wrap it up. Darren, anything else you want to add at this point? You know, I know that these folks again, please check out at DM Tiffany timepieces on Instagram because you're going to see everything else. Where else can people find you? Were they going to were they to want to check you out and what you're doing?
Darren	Yeah, so right now I'm just on Instagram, but I have purchased a couple domains. So I'll be building out a website, especially when I'm getting ready to launch this first production run over the next couple of months.
Unknown	And when can folks expect to... Sorry, sorry to interrupt you. When can folks expect to sort of see that stuff rolling out?
Darren	Yeah, so I have a commitment made to myself of mid-December, I'll have at least one ready to sell.
Unknown	Wonderful.
Darren	December 15th, hold me to that.
Unknown	And do you have a website that we can bookmark? I know you're saying you're just developing it, but where are we going to be able to find you when that time comes?
Darren	Yeah, so I bought the domain dmtiffany and dmtiffanytimepieces.com.
Unknown	Fantastic.
Darren	Either one of those.
Unknown	Wonderful.
Darren	Anything else you want to add then before we go? Yeah. Check me out on Instagram. Give me a follow. I'm almost to a thousand followers, which is a milestone for me, which is a hundred humans and nine hundred Russian bots. But it's still exciting for me.
Unknown	That's that's right where we're at.
Unknown	Yeah, that's right. That's right. Oh, OK. So and I'm looking 984.
Unknown	You've gained a follower since we started. They must be tapping our phones.
Unknown	So I'm I'm guessing. then on Thursday, when this comes out, you're going to be at 1000. But if you're not, I'm hoping fingers crossed that we get you there. If you're if you're not, if you're listening to this, and you're not following Darren, please do so. Because he's doing super cool stuff. And even if you know a lot of you listening $4,000 is going to be outside of what you can legitimately spend on a watch. I think that what he's got here is something more than just a watch. It's an opportunity to see a company grow and evolve. And the information there is just wonderful. The pictures are wonderful. The opportunity to see what's happening, how a watch comes from literally a fellow with a tabletop benchtop milling machine in his garage to an actual company is there for you to experience firsthand. And I think you shouldn't pass that up. So, Andrew, you got anything else before we go? No, no. I don't. I thought I might and I had to decide. I don't. All right. Well, well, thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20. Please feel free to follow us on Instagram at 40 and 20. If you want to support the show, check us out at Patreon.com slash 40 and 20. That's that's where we get the majority of our support from you guys. We also do some other stuff. But really, Patreon is where it's at. So check us out. You can read about us there. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye-bye.