Episode 4: Orient Watches

Published on Thu, 22 Nov 2018 00:00:00 -0800

Synopsis

The podcast discusses affordable watches from the brand Orient, highlighting models like the Bambino, Mako, Ray, Neo 70s Panda, Defender, and Sun and Moon. The hosts praise Orient's high-quality yet affordable in-house automatic movements and the variety of styles they offer. They also touch on other topics like food, movies, photography, and acquiring new camera equipment.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is the 40 in 20 podcast with your host Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Thank you for joining us for episode four. Everett, how are you? I'm really good, man. Yeah.
Everett	We just got a good picture for Instagram. Yeah. We just put a, I think one of my favorites out there.
Andrew	Could be. We'll see how the rest of the world feels about it.
Everett	You got to tell us what you think, folks.
Andrew	Yeah. Feel free to like it. Can't thumbs down on Instagram. So feel free to like it if you don't like it and don't like it if you, it, I don't know. Look at the picture. Look at our Instagram. We've got some cool pictures up there and we'll keep you updated about what episodes are coming out and when they come out.
Everett	Yeah. You know, we work really hard on the Instagram. It's funny. It's not a, it's, it wasn't something that I think either one of us really thought about before we started this thing. You know, we both have Instagram pages, but I know I was pretty infrequent online. Very infrequent online. And you know, when we started this podcast, it's been, I suspect it's our main way of communicating with people, telling people that we're doing this thing.
Andrew	Thus far, I think. I think it's a good medium to get out there. I mean, it's a good way to grab people's attention and give people content throughout the week to remind them that we are in fact putting out another medium of content every week. That's a good way for people to stay connected. So feel free to comment on the photos. Comment on the post about our episode. Tell us what you liked, what you didn't like, what you want to hear. DM us if you like.
Everett	Slide into the DMs.
Andrew	Yeah. I mean, yeah, we're here for watch content. I mean, that was sort of one of our goals in creating this was to create a podcast and an outlet for other folks like us who are looking in that affordable watch market to talk about watches and demystify watches a little bit and make them a little bit more accessible and less intimidating and drink beer and hang out along the way. Those are the things we do.
Everett	Yeah. How are you doing, man?
Andrew	Good. Busy, tired, but that's, I'm feeling better. I don't know if I sound better, but I feel better. You sound so good. I know. And it's almost Thanksgiving, which is the best holiday of the year.
Everett	And when is the, you're not doing the, the cats game day for thanksgiving you're doing it for superbowl i got confused for a second i was i mean they're one of the same i mean they're two of the greatest holidays of the year i was thinking gosh we get cats real soon but no well i mean it's still pretty soon it's february it's a long way away it's not that far you know all right so we're talking about uh orient watches today yeah and i'm
Andrew	you've got uh something over there on the table what a nice little a little pile of them if you will not really pile they're neatly organized so this week as as you listened last week you heard that i did pick up the orient bambino and uh so i got it this week and basically every day coming home from work i was just excited as excited could be it was better than christmas for me and i got home i saw the package I didn't even change my clothes. I didn't even go to the bathroom after my hour-long drive back to my house. I didn't go to the bathroom. I just tore it open. I put this watch on and it delivered. It just, it absolutely delivered. It is beautiful. It came on a strap that is, if you're going to buy an affordable dress watch and you have no intention of changing the strap on it, It's a perfect strap for it.
Everett	I'd wear that. I was surprised at how little I hated that strap.
Andrew	Yeah. I mean, it's a little bit stiff, but I think that'll fix from wear. And I got an inexpensive NATO strap for it, because one of the things that I want to do is buy a bunch of inexpensive NATOs and try them and wear them so that I can tell anyone who's listening to say, hey, this is the best $12 NATO that I've found. It's comfortable out of the box. It looks good. So I'm on inexpensive NATO number many, um, and I still haven't found one that I'm going to be like, you know what? This is the one if you're going to have, if you can only spend $12, $15 on a strap, this is the one, but I've got another one that I've tested. It's also not terrible. It's comfortable. It's a little bit rough on the inside. It's a little bit sharp on the edges, but I think from, I mean, I got it in the mail today, so that's, you know, that's a little bit of an unfair. Critique on the on the strap.
Everett	Well and to be clear, it's a it's a leathernado. It's not yeah, not nylon. So it it will Theoretically get softer very quickly.
Andrew	Yeah, so it's a little bit unfair to say it's tough. But I mean the hardware's the hardware is actually a Little impressive for having been $12. I mean, it's sturdy. It doesn't feel there's no flex in it when I put any pressure on it It went on great and it looks good. It's a just a natural leather strap for it, which I think just looks so great on this white, white dial and really, really bright stainless accents on it. And I, I am in love with this watch.
Everett	I'll be interested to see how that leather breaks in. It doesn't, uh, it doesn't occur to me that that's the highest quality leather, but it looks good out of the box. So it'll be interesting to see if it, if it gets nicer as it, as it ages, I imagine it breaks in quick.
Andrew	and probably deteriorates pretty quick too. I think this could be a six month wear. But that's okay. I paid 12 bucks for it. And I absolutely love this watch. And it's got a quiet movement on it. That's one of the things I don't like about the SNK, is when you move, you hear it. You really hear it cranking. And this, you can feel it a little bit, almost like a kinetic, but it's It's quiet. It's quiet.
Everett	I like that. That crystal is really, uh, is really impressive. I hope that, you know, I hope that your longterm where with that crystal is, is satisfying. I, I've got my own personal concerns about mineral crystals. I've owned a number of them at this point. And, um, oftentimes lament that they, they scratch easier than I want. So I'm going to be careful with it. Yeah, I think you have to be because I suspect that if you catch that on stuff, it's going to scratch and it's going to scratch over time. It's going to scratch.
Andrew	Any watch is going to scratch it. That's right. I just don't want the unnecessary careless scratches. I want the life, you know, the patina, the character. I don't want the, oh yeah, when I was walking through the door, I crashed it onto the strike plate and took a nice big gouge out of the, uh, out of the mineral crystal.
Everett	Yeah, no, I, it's one of those things that just happens so quickly. You know, my SKX, I think within a month of having it, I bashed it against something good. I don't, I don't remember it happening. And to this day, it's got a fairly deep, noticeable scratch right over the, right over the dial and right borderline smack dab middle of the, of the dial. And it's brutal. I don't like that. I don't like it either. Everything should have Sapphire. If only we had infinite dollars. Yeah.
Andrew	Someday, maybe. Someday. We'll work on that. So, yeah, I've got the Bambino here, which I'm so pleased with. Super nice.
Everett	So pleased with. And that's probably a pretty good segue into our main topic for the day. We're talking today about Orient watches. Yeah. We're talking about Orient watches, the brand, the watches. You know, it's when we first talked about this subject, we We thought about picking just a couple of watches and talking about just a few specific select watches. But as I really started to look around for Orient watches, it became clear to me that Orient just doesn't make all that many watches. The Orient USA website and the selections that are widely available from Orient's catalog aren't numerous the way that watches are for Seiko or Casio.
Andrew	No, it's a pretty, a pretty small portfolio of just good looking watches. The more I, the more I looked into this as we were deciding to talk about the Orient Watch Company, the more I looked at it and was like, this is the pinnacle of affordable, good looking watches. And I think that's, I mean, that hits right on where we're trying to aim. at the people we're trying to reach who are talking about affordable watches. Like Orient is just, I can't think of right off the top of my head another $135 automatic in-house watch you can buy. I just, I can't think of any right off the top of my head. And that's their whole line is they're all really affordable. I don't know right off the top of my head what their most expensive watch is.
Everett	Well, you can get into the Orient Stars, which run, you know, anywhere from 300 to, over a thousand or the their saturation divers which can be really quite expensive, but I think they're More expensive mainline watches are down in that, you know, 300 250 $300 range MSRP.
Andrew	Yeah, I mean the I think yeah, I paid 135 right on the nose with Amazon for the Bambino and that's besides the SNK the least expensive watch I have
Everett	That's the, is that the Gen 2 V1? Is that right? Yeah, the Gen 2 V1.
Andrew	And it's just, it's gorgeous. If you're in the market for a dress watch, or frankly, if you're, if you're somebody who doesn't do a lot of, a lot of watch wearing in an environment where it might get banged up, where you want to wear a little bit dressier watch, this is such a good option. It's, it's affordable, it's attractive, and it can go from rolled up sleeves to a suit with
Everett	without skipping a beat. Well, and you know, the size of, of that watch, it's, it's not small by any means. It's a 40, 41, 41. So it's not small. Um, it manages to be, it manages to be really svelte. It's got a very thin case. The crystal makes the case, the crystal is, you know, maybe a quarter of the overall height dimension. Um, so the actual metal component of the case is so thin it makes for a really thin wearable, dress watch, even with that 41 millimeter dimension. And the thing I love about the, the Bambinos is there is a watch that is styled for just about any, uh, any person. You know, do you want a, a guilt watch with a, you know, gold tone case? Do you want a very simple Bauhaus style dial? Do you want Roman numerals? uh... they've they've got an option for you arabic numerals uh... it's just the variety on this watch is so incredible that for someone who is not really sure what they want uh... knows they want a wearable everyday watch and wants to have some variety you know scrolling through the orient website these are all MSRP prices so you might pay a little bit more but still the options you can come here figure out what you want you know small second hands big second hands color combinations you know the um second gen version threes have this one really beautiful blue dial um the version four has this gorgeous sunburst green and sunburst blue i guess you'd call that a sunburst it's sort of a
Andrew	I think so.
Everett	I think that's an appropriate terminology for it. You know, they've got open heart versions, which I don't think that's for me, but I think a lot of people, I think people like it as just a little bit of just a touch of, of uniqueness to their watch.
Andrew	I mean, this, this watch has just become my absolute go-to when people, when, when people I know say, Oh, Hey, you know, I'm thinking about getting a watch. Usually my go-to is cause I'm talking to people who are, Thinking about getting a first watch or thinking about upgrading from like a fashion watch. My go-to has been the SNK and I've just added the Bambino to the list.
Everett	Yeah. I mean, I don't think the price for, you know, you can, for about 130 to 150, you can get just about any of these. Uh, if it's available, you can get it in that price. And, um, that's not too much for just about anybody who's looking to watch this. Some people. Some people are going to want to be under a hundred or, you know, maybe tighter budgets, but I feel like it wouldn't shock most people who were planning to go to Macy's to buy a watch to say, Oh, there's a sweet watch from this cool company, Orient, and they're about 140 bucks.
Andrew	That's not shocking the way, the way, you know, and you, and their, their movements are made in house. That's one of the coolest things about the, like how affordable these watches are because it's all in house there. their technology, their production. It's, it's theirs.
Everett	Yeah. Well, and, and, you know, I think we're going to talk about some of their movements. They, they do really interesting things with movements. The Bambinos are pretty straightforward three-hander, but, but within that they have this open heart version. Um, they've got the small seconds, just that little bit of variety is really incredible for a watch at this price. I think that's one of the things. Orient does better than a lot of these other sort of lower price brands is watches with genuinely unique or or at least novel Movements at that price range, you know under 200 bucks to you know, some of these things with with cool Day complication day sub dials on the dial, you know, you know, you don't find that in Seiko. You don't even find that with You know these these middle tier brands because most of them are using Seiko or Miyota movements, you know. Citizen, I'm sure, does some of this stuff, but they're not doing it automatic. They're not doing it in a way that's really obvious, to me at least.
Andrew	Not that I've seen yet. Maybe they are, but I haven't seen it.
Everett	Well, so, talked a little bit about the Bambino. I think the other one that we'd be hard-pressed to pass by when talking about Orion is the Meiko Rei.
Andrew	Yeah, the Meiko 2 is what I've got.
Everett	sitting right here and it's just another another really good looking really thoughtful really clean watch and we've talked about it's a little bit on the smaller side for a diver but frankly you know it's not small it's not it's not even all that small in terms of width it just wears really small it doesn't wear small it just wears really right compact i'm not sure yeah just where it's not obtrusive in the way Even in the way the SKX is, this is not the first time in the show we've compared these two watches, and I don't think it'll be the last time, but it just hugs the wrist nicely. I know I've seen it described as a dress diver, and I don't know that I totally agree with that, but it has a lot of the features that I might be looking for if I was looking for a dress diver. It's compact, it doesn't punch up high, you had mentioned I think
Andrew	Yeah, it's got that tapered bezel, so it's not grabbing things. That's one thing that the SKX just doesn't quite do it for me, that really square bezel. It's not that I don't like it, but when side-by-side with the Mako, it's an easy decision for me.
Everett	Yeah, no, I can totally see that. It's a beautiful watch. And you know, for me, I think Orion does this the same thing with the Mako, and I'm using that term loosely, but the same thing with that Mako line that they do with the Bambino in a way, which is they, they give you some variety. Um, if you, if you don't love the, if you don't love the, um, the dial set on or the hand set or the dial on the Mako, you can check out the Ray, which I guess probably wears a little bit dressier. I don't have a Orient Ray pulled up here. We'll pull it real quick.
Andrew	I think too worth mentioning is as I was looking about this, it, it doesn't have the same following that a lot of these other brands have. And I, the only place I could find that was a dedicated to Orient, uh, forum or, or discussion board was a, was a, a Blogspot blog called Orient Place. And his thing, I saw him post on Watch You Seek, basically like, I see all these following all these people talking about, They're Seikos or they're Citizens or he named a couple other brands, but I don't see people talking about Orient. So I've got this blog over here where this is what I talk about. And he's got this blog dedicated to Orient watches. And I read a couple of his articles and I appreciated it because it's a brand that is really, really growing on me.
Everett	Is he maintaining the blog? Is it current?
Andrew	I don't recall his last post. But it's got a handful of articles on, I don't know, probably a dozen at the time I looked at it this week. uh... reviews on orient watches.
Everett	If it's blogspot it'll be there forever whether he maintains it or not.
Andrew	Exactly, so I mean if you're looking into orient watches and you want to hear somebody's opinion other than ours or mine uh... sitting in front of you or Everett's, we've got uh... this guy's got a blog for a handful of orient watch reviews. Did you write down the name of the blog? It's orientplace.blogspot.com Yeah, is it a dot com? I think so. I forget. I wrote down Orient Place Blogspot and sort of expected you to do the Googling to add it to the show notes. Okay.
Everett	Got it. You know, looking at this right now up on screen, it's got, you know, I don't know if you'd call this a maxi dial. That's what I think of, and I'm not sure the nomenclature is right there, but it's got more of that traditional dot trapezoid dial, a little bit different handset, different font on the bezel, more of a I don't know if that's a Planet Ocean font or whatever, but different bracelet. It's got a stylized five link oyster bracelet with the polished edges on that middle link. It's just enough different that if there's things about the Mako you don't like, you go with the Ray and have the opportunity to just style your watch wear a little bit differently. You know, you've just got, you've got options. You know, they've got all sorts of opinions about what makes a good dive watch and them offering that separate, that separate style, same watch, same dimensions, same beautiful case finishing, but with just a little different, a little different dial, a little different bezel. They're just reaching more people.
Andrew	Just a little bit, little, little character differences between them. And I think that's, That's what makes a lot of the Orient watches so appealing is that there really is one for everyone.
Everett	And then the Mako USA has more of that ray dial or ray bezel, but a completely different dial and a totally different handset too. And I think it comes with sapphire crystal, probably better lume. I know it has solid end links. It's a bit of an upgrade, which I think is what a lot of folks would love with the SKX. I don't think people complain about the SKX loom, but can I please have a better brace, an upgraded bracelet? And can I please have, you know, applied indices is one of the things people want. I don't care about that so much, but can I please have Sapphire? Can I please, for the love of God, get a hacking and handwinding movement? And Seiko is not doing it. They're not going to do it because it doesn't make any economic sense. It's nice that Orient, a sister company of Seiko. A subsidiary. Yeah, and I don't know if, you know, I think that they're sort of separate.
Andrew	I think they're a standalone subsidiary, the way that they have them structured. I mean, the way that you see, I mean, Orient's still doing their in-house. I think they were just acquired and said, hey, we own you now, but keep doing your business. Right.
Everett	And I think they're in, forgive me, because I don't know this for sure, but I think Seiko is in the Seiko arm and Orient is in the Epson arm?
Andrew	Is it Epson? As I was looking at it, I'd have to look at it again, but they are in different arms of the conglomerate of Seiko whatever, Seiko whatever.
Everett	And it seems like if they were two companies operating under the same place, they'd be sharing movements or communicating more on design cues. I don't see that there's any of that.
Andrew	Not to the layman, I don't think. There might be some behind the scenes that we obviously will never be privy to, but it seems to me that they are a standalone subsidiary and get to keep running their business and making somebody else money.
Everett	I don't think we need to dwell on these two watches because these are two watches that everybody knows and loves, but the Mako, Mako Ray, Bambino, we have to talk about them in this episode because they're so fricking cool and because you have one of each.
Andrew	And then in 1912, the founder started producing watch cases. Then in 1920, he established Toyotoke. I don't know if that's how you say it. Sounds right to me. Sounds close enough. I apologize for butchering it for sure. Toyotoke manufacturing, doing table clocks. And then 1934, began producing wristwatches. In 1949, following World War II, there was an economic downturn in Japan. Go figure. And they had to shut down until 1951 when they were reopened, or 1950 when they reopened. 1951, renamed Orient Watch Company. And in 2001, Seiko started their acquisition, which I think was finalized in about 2009. So I don't know if Seiko came in and bought part of it and then had an option to buy entirely. But in 2001 is when they started their transition to the Seiko company. So just a quick run through of their timeline. going all the way back to 1901 in the watch industry. And I think that's worthwhile for knowing about. I mean, this is an old watch company with a lot of heritage behind it and a lot of transition and some reinventing of itself and some changes and some growth. And yet still, they're producing these really great, really quality, affordable watches.
Everett	So the next watch we Next watch that we as a watch we've talked about before on the podcast that we Want to discuss today, but the Orient Neo 70s Panda In looking at watches before we started today.
Andrew	I think we realized there's a lot more variety in this watch than either one of us Yeah Under the name not even under the watch under the name Neo 70s because you got a couple pandas and then you've got a couple that have a different case that are still advertised as the Neo 70s, like an entirely different case, a whole different movement, a watch that is, I mean, about as different as you could be under the same name.
Everett	This is a, uh, the reference is WV0011TY. This is the Orient Watch Neo 70s Horizon, uh, solar chronograph. And it, it does a lot of the same things as the, The Neo 70s that I know. Um, but the case is different. The markers are different. This has sort of those, I don't know, 60s. You know, I think of them as Bolova style, uh, markers. I don't know if that's, if that's an accurate representation, but they're like beveled, chamfered. I don't know. I don't know what those markers are. What do you call those? There's gotta be a name for them, but different. Yeah. It's, it's very different. Um, maybe a little bit of a busier.
Andrew	Very busy dial. There's a lot happening on that dial.
Everett	It's got a tachymeter ring on the outside. It's just a much different watch. Also really short hands. I think that's a staple.
Andrew	As I know, I'm looking at more and more Orients, but the Mako's got appropriately linked hands.
Everett	All the way out to the end.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	Orient Star Classic.
Andrew	Just another really beautiful, watch and i think they do a really good job capturing that throwback retro like 60s 70s feel but bringing that splash of modern modern taste to it like no one's gonna look at these watches and be and and be confused thinking they're a vintage watch um but they have that feel that aesthetic to them that that makes them a really classic really timeless look And those, those blue hands on that, it's just.
Everett	Orient star is, uh, orients, I guess, higher on line Lexus to Toyota, I guess.
Andrew	I think so. Yeah. It's their, it's, it's their step above their kind of entry level. I, we, I think we can call it like their, their mid range. Cause they've got that step above it in the Orient star line, but it's there. Yeah. Toyota Lexus.
Everett	I think the. The Orient star saw is probably the biggest complaint I see online about Orient, which is the logo. I personally don't mind the Orient logo.
Andrew	I love the Orient logo.
Everett	Yeah, I think it's beautiful. I love the way that they do it in some characters, some features, some texture.
Andrew	And color, just a splash of color. I mean, the Bambino that I have is just white with chrome and just that splash of red in their logo.
Everett	Super subtle. I think people think that it's I don't know, kind of ugly. I think some people think it's kind of ugly. I don't see that at all. But the Orient star, bless its heart, to the rescue with a fairly modern, fairly simple stylized SOS. I actually don't think it's got anywhere near as much character as the as the Orient logo. But if you're anti lion logo, this probably solves that problem.
Andrew	I think so. It's a it's a really subtle logo right there in the dial. I mean, if you didn't, if you weren't looking for a logo, you might think it was the water resistance, uh, marker there on the dial. And it's just, it's, it's certainly not the focus of the dial. Yeah.
Everett	Unobtrusive, unobtrusive. So the Orion star has, um, several watches that I think are fairly popular. This is the one I see talked about most often we've pulled up a, uh, uh, metal bracelet version. with blued hands reference is go go reference.
Andrew	I think it's just classic. Wow. I think it just has the name.
Everett	Orient star classic.
Andrew	I don't see, uh, no other indicators anywhere else on this webpage.
Everett	Uh, yeah. So the Orient star classic. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't see a reference in any event. This thing, the reason I pulled up this version in particular is because you had mentioned the Bambino
Andrew	sort of competing for that same uh place that the sarb oh yeah i takes i i think this could absolutely fill if you're looking for an affordable piece in that sarb line that sarb feel i think i think the bambino is it and i think the classic is for a little bit bigger budget i think the the classic absolutely fills that need too
Everett	One, if the Bambino competes with, you know, maybe the Cocktail Time or the Prisaj Cocktail Time versions, I don't know, those are technically Sarbs anymore, then this competes very directly with the Sarb 033, 035s. It's got a really sporty metal bracelet. It's got a dressy dial that's also sporty and has a little bit of, I don't know, toughness to it. It's a more elegant watch, I think, than the Saab. And I don't mean elegant in terms of beauty. The Saab has that great finishing on it. And the hands on the Saab. Yeah. I think what this does, though, is it dresses up the sport watch just a touch more than the Saab does.
Andrew	And a really subtle, but really, really viewable and really readable, uh, reserve indicator on there.
Everett	Yeah. I don't know that I love reserve indicators, but this one is, is really well executed.
Andrew	It doesn't stand out. It doesn't blow up. It doesn't scream at you. It's just a really subtle, uh, blue hand. And I mean, it, it's not even, It's the size of one of the hour markers on there. Um, but it doesn't, it's not the first thing you see and you have to look for it, but if you know, it's there, it's a, it's a really quick reference. And man, that's just a, that's just a really pretty watch.
Everett	It is beautiful. And I haven't, I haven't seen one. I don't know if you have, but I, my understanding is that the finishing on these is, is a step above the finishing you'd find on a, on a Bambino or a regular line orient, which is very good. Yeah. Which means it's going to be great. The Bambino, just, just to go back for a second, looking at that thing today, I was really impressed by the finishing, by the brushing on the side of that case. Um, it's nothing fancy. It's just a brushed case side, but it's, it's executed so well. So I suspect these Orient Stars are, are probably pretty special. Um, we'll probably have to get one of these in, whether it's a loaner or something. We'll find a way to get one of these in.
Andrew	Super cool watch. Yeah. I would, I would be very pleased to have that. Ooh, next in line, the Defender. Orient Defender.
Everett	You know, Orient does, Orient does a little bit bigger watches than I think. We didn't talk about the size on the star. The star is 38 and a half, 38 and a half millimeters, which is very conservative. But I think most of the other watches we've picked up today, Um, their, their non diver watch, their non diver watches tend to be a little bit bigger. This is a 41 and a half millimeter, 42 millimeter field watch, which it's a little bit big for a field watch.
Andrew	A little bit, but the way that all the Orients that I've had my hands on and the two that I own, the way that they wear, they can get away with those extra couple of millimeters. They wear so. When they do that without making an oddly compact lug to lug, you know the lugs on the Bambino are fairly short and they curve down at a decent angle, but it's not
Everett	I don't know what the lug-to-lug on the Bambino is. Do you know off the top of your head? Not right off the top of my head. It's not noticeably short when you look at it, but it's short enough that it makes just that bit of difference where it's not hanging over the edge of your wrist and is really, I guess, a little bit compensating for the overall width. I think the Defender does a really similar thing. This is a field watch. You'd call it a field watch. Although it's not a traditional, it's not a traditional field watch by any means. It doesn't have the inner 24 hour ring that's, that's really well known in field watches. It doesn't have, um, you know, those classic field watch markers. Instead they've, they've gone their own direction with it. Bead blasted case for, for anti glare. So it's actually doing that exactly the same, but looking at this dial, uh, gosh, it's pretty, it's, it's different. I like it. I'm not sure. I'm not sure it's beautiful. It's not elegant. Um, it's functional, super functional.
Andrew	It looks like a field watch. It looks like a tool, like a tool watch.
Everett	So it's got that, uh, the two sub dials on the defender field watch dial. It's got one of them I could do without which one that the AM PM. Yeah, so it's got two sub-dials. One of them's a day-of-the-week sub-dial, and the other one is instead of having a 24-hour ring around the middle where you can use it if you know it's afternoon, you know you can refer to that 24-hour dial to read military time.
Andrew	Or just regular 24-hour time, like most of the world.
Everett	Well, you know, we're not most of the world.
Andrew	Here we are.
Everett	We do 12-hour time.
Andrew	Exactly. America. Bruschetta.
Everett	Bruschetta. Yeah, this is different. Andrew and I both have the opportunity to need 24-hour time on a fairly regular basis. Opportunity. It still blows my mind. I work in a regular civilian environment most of the time, but every once in a while, once a month, I am thrown into an environment where 24-hour time is prevalent. I am not good at making the conversion. It is very simple math. It's super simple math.
Andrew	It's arithmetic. And I don't do it on principle.
Everett	No, I don't do it either. I'm going to go home at 5 o'clock.
Andrew	Oh, you mean 1700? No, I mean 5 o'clock. Listen, asshole. I'm going home at 5. Really, I say 4 o'clock. That's my threshold. I'm going home at 3.30. Y'all can stay as late as you want.
Everett	Within that, it is actually extremely useful, and I found if I'm wearing a watch that does have a 24-hour indicator on it, that I use it. You know, my Bertucci field watch gives me that 24-hour time, and I'm always really pleasantly surprised when I'm working and need that to have it. Oh, yeah, it's 1,700. Oh, it's 1,335. Not necessarily to say it out loud, but to know what someone else is talking about You know, I can do the math, but it's pleasant to have that. So I get that in terms of a field watch. I actually could do without this day sub-dial, but I kind of like the day sub-dial.
Andrew	I like it too. It's unique. I don't have any watches with a day sub-dial. I have watches with the day complication, a little window, but not with the sub-dial. I think that's kind of a cool little, I don't know, I'd like to have one that has it.
Everett	It's cool. It's neat. Yeah. Um, you know, I was actually hoping this 24 hour, this 24 hour dial, I was hoping that it was a GMT dial, but it's, it's, it's synced to the hour hand. So it, it really is just, that'd be a cool complication in there. It would be cool. Uh, I think, uh, a GMT complication really adds to the cost of a movement. Orient's got an affordable GMT movement that they're very tight fisted with. You know, I know I've heard, micro brand owners lamenting that fact, both in podcasts and online, that Orient's got this cool automatic GN&T movement that they're not sharing with the world. You know, Chris Vale of NTH Watches has talked about that a number of times in his online conversations. I think he's tried to get a hold of it and the answer has been no. Pass. Yeah. I'm not sure I understand the marketing there. You know, I think that the the big Japanese brands are very difficult to get into, period. You know, I don't think you can get a hold of people at Seiko at all. And when they release watches, oftentimes they don't, you know, release them to the world by way of press release. They just show up.
Andrew	We should try. We should try to get a hold of somebody in their R&D and try to pull something out of them. I mean, we could. I don't know that might be a phone call I make this week.
Everett	All right. Yeah. See if you can get a hundred Orient automatic GMT movements. Chris Vale will fund you. Okay. He might.
Andrew	I have my hands on a hundred Orient GMT movements.
Everett	And I'm going to lose my house. Would you please buy this from me? Yeah, no, I think that would take this watch from being very cool to, holy shit, this is awesome. Oh, it would be.
Andrew	I can't imagine it still being at that $150 price point. That's the other part about it. No, no. That's the really impressive part about all the Orients we've looked at today. Say, like, barring the Classic, they're under $300 watches.
Everett	Well, but you know, that's true. You can get the Classic, though, for $300, $340-ish, which is a lot of money. It's cheaper than the Saab now. Yeah. You know, but yeah, other than that, Even the Bambinos, a lot of the Bambinos are $200 plus online. You can find them all for $150 or less.
Andrew	I paid $135 for mine. Yeah. I might have even paid less because I bought a $12 strap.
Everett	Same with this Defender. $150 here, $130 on Joma Shop or whatever. And that's on a bracelet. I don't suspect it's an impressive bracelet, but it's going to fit right. It's going to be... Pull my arm hair. Pull Andrew's arm hair. Well, okay.
Andrew	I found though that though I don't have a lot of arm hair it's suspiciously long.
Everett	We talk about your arm hair so much on this show. I mean it's pertinent. I guess yeah no it is it's definitely pertinent.
Andrew	It's it's where the watch goes I don't I don't have I'm not like a pocket watch guy although that'd be cool I kind of would go I kind of could could go for vests and pocket watches.
Everett	One of my co-workers is into pocket watches he's looking for like a high-end late 19th century pocket watch right now.
Andrew	I Imagine those are pretty hard to come by.
Everett	They're not they're not there's a ton of them out there actually late 19th century pocket watches Yeah, yeah, that's right. And they're they're not terribly expensive You can get really nice ones for you know, five hundred to a thousand dollars In in operational condition and they've got huge movements in them so that I suspect they're probably fairly easy to work on. Yeah, they're out there.
Andrew	I'm intrigued. We might have to commit an episode to pocket watch research. Please say no. I mean, who's Batman?
Everett	Oh man, here we go.
Andrew	The rabbit hole has found a gopher tunnel.
Everett	Pocket watches, I think the cool thing about pocket watches is you can find these cool brands. Oh man, have you read at all about this Vortic Watch controversy?
Andrew	No.
Everett	I won't even get into it here. Vortic Watches is a brand that makes these watch cases wherein they house old pocket watch dials and movements. And they make, I think they 3D print these cases. They're pretty cool. Turn them into wristwatches. Obviously these things are monsters. Yeah, they're huge. They've got to be 50 millimeters. Huge. I don't know if they're that big, but they're maybe, yeah, they're big. They have been sued by Swatch Group, I think, for their use of vintage American dials and movements. It's a, it's like a trademark case.
Andrew	Even though all they're doing is creating housing for it?
Everett	Yeah, you know, I think that the, I, you know, feel free to go down the rabbit hole. People have opinions, uh, uneducated people with opinions. It's always interesting to see, but, um, yeah, there's a lawsuit there. It's, it's a fair use case and, uh, uh, kind of interesting. The case is kind of interesting. Uh, I think a lot of people are, you know, micro brand or, or affordable watch. People are feeling really angry with swatch and I'm not sure.
Andrew	that there's not good reason to feel that way, but... Well, so my question is, what's Swatch's... What's their foundation for an argument? Because they're... I mean, are they losing out? Is that a market that they previously had their fingers in, in creating housing for vintage watches?
Everett	You know, I think it's a lot... I think it's probably... The answer to your question is no, but it's more complicated than I'm comfortable talking about, and that's as someone who's got... At least a modest ability to talk about legal things It's super complicated, you know, and it's not that You wouldn't understand is that I wouldn't understand right? It's fair. I'm so I certainly wouldn't right, right It's it's a whole thing. It's funny to watch people online talking about this in these really impassioned ways But anyway moving on that's an aside. Sorry about that. Where were we? I don't know. I Think we should just go right to this Sun and Moon. Oh, yeah So Orient's got a dress watch. I guess you'd call this a dress watch. I don't know what else you could call it. It's a sun and moon. Orient sun and moon. They've made several versions of this. We've pulled up the version two with their cream dial. This is actually a gold tone case. And I'm not sure that I would buy a gold tone case in this watch, but I don't know that I would either. You know, this is almost the same watch as the Defender. So interesting that it's so similar to the Defender. well-being. So different. Absolutely nothing like the Defender.
Andrew	And such a good strategy by Orient to offer, again, variety. There's an example of, I forget which two, was it the Version 2 and, or was it the Version 4 and the Defender that share a movement?
Everett	So it's the one we have open right now. So this has got the Orient Caliber 46B40. This is the Sun and Moon Version 2. Orient caliber 46B40, which is the same exact movement that's in the Defender. And if you look at the watches, they look... Nothing alike. Nothing alike. I mean, they're sure there's two sub-dials. In the same places.
Andrew	But that's it.
Everett	That's it. That's the similarity. And it's interesting. The sub-dials are the same. They're the same sub-dials. So it's got a, on the right side of the face, sort of a bigger day ring, and on the upper left hand side of the dial, you know, at 10 o'clock, we can talk in watch terms. How about that? Sorry, guys. They've got, instead of a 24 hour hand, it's a sun and moon hand.
Andrew	With beautiful sun and moon, sun and moon, sun and moon representations.
Everett	Well, I think that's probably where the value comes from in this watch is these, this gorgeous, uh, this gorgeous dial work that does sun and moon. There's pictures of them here. Uh, we're, we're just, we're looking at all these watches. You know, we, we oftentimes look at watches on Jomashop or, or where we want to tell you about the prices. We're just looking at these on the orient website. Although I'll say orient website, orient USA, get your pictures together. These pictures are not very good. This, uh, they're not sharp. They don't show you what you want. Anyway. Uh, they've got these pictures of the sun and moon there. Sort of gilt.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	Stylized sun and moon pictures and just really well done. And the dial on this is that guilloche pattern.
Andrew	It's it's the intricacy of the dial is just is is really impressive for a sub $300 watch.
Everett	When this says $250 I found these things online for $130. I found these things online for the same price as the as the Orient Defender. Um, yeah, that's automatic. You know, there's nothing particularly complicated about these complications. I don't think, uh, not being a watchmaker, but they're different. They're different in a way that nobody else is making different things.
Andrew	Uh, and at this price, you can't go wrong. Yeah. You just, you can't, it's just, it's a beautiful watch. It's, and I don't think it's for everybody.
Everett	I'm not even sure it's for me.
Andrew	It's not. I wouldn't. I probably wouldn't buy one. Yeah, I don't think so. But I would wear it. Yeah, if it was in your drawer. Yeah, if my dad was like, hey, I've got this this old weird orient. I think it's the sun and moon. My dad doesn't talk like that. I don't know if my dad's going to listen, but I feel bad doing a weird impersonation of who knows who that is.
Everett	For the record, Andrew's dad, just a normal person.
Andrew	Yeah, just a really normal guy. Doesn't talk like that. But if he was like, hey, I have this old orient watch, you want it? Hell yeah, I want it. And I'd wear the hell out of it. Yeah. I don't know that I'd buy it though.
Everett	It's big. It's big. 42 and a half, 42 and a half millimeters. That's big. I mean, for a watch that's essentially a dress watch, this is way too fucking big. But it's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Well, maybe this is another one we need to get in and just poke around on. Listen, if you're listening, you have an Orient Sun and Moon. I'll pay for shipping. Let me check it out. Yeah. Is that going to work?
Andrew	I don't know. I don't know why anyone would trust us enough to send us their watch.
Everett	I wouldn't send me a watch. Yeah. No, super cool. Figured we'd talk about it. We're, I think we're through the watches that we had pulled up. Did we? Yeah.
Andrew	Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So these are, this was kind of our quick rundown of Orient watches and a company that really, I think, specializes in catering to folks who are looking for affordable, quality, beautiful watches. I mean, we have two sitting in front of us and in front of me. They're not in front of you, but they're just beautiful, just beautiful, affordable watches that I think if you're if you're listening to our podcast, it's likely you're interested in the affordable watch category. And these absolutely need to be on your take a look at list.
Everett	Yeah. You could stop and start at, at, at Orion if you're looking at the watches.
Andrew	Yeah. I mean, if you're looking, if you're somebody who's looking to looking to have a watch collection for under, under $400 for two watches that you can wear every day in any environment, Mako and Bambino, you're done. And then you can, you can spice it up with some bracelets, some straps, some variety there. And, and you've got two every day, any environment, good looking watches.
Everett	So last week we didn't get to Other Things We Like and that made me really sad. Because Other Things We Like is, I don't know, it's Other Things We Like. It's Kim's favorite part of the show. She told me, I didn't like the first 55 minutes, but I liked the last bit. So she hated episode 3.
Andrew	Sorry babe, we didn't get to the other things. My wife hated the first 7 minutes of episode 3 because I came home and she's like, so I'm somebody you make a sales pitch to? I don't think she's going to make it this deep into this podcast, so I can say that, but... She didn't listen to the blueberry, did she? No, she still hasn't caught blueberry. Somebody on Watch UC caught blueberry. It's not our safe word. It's not even going to be my wife's safe word. It's just, it's for some reason the first word that came to my mind of something that would be obscure. And she hasn't said blueberry, but she did mention that my sales pitches are about to get 10 times harder. That's okay. I'll keep playing VP. Just keep hitting the button. Max bet.
Everett	Well, so I know you got some other things you like. I do.
Andrew	First and foremost, have you seen basketball? Yes. Recently. It's been a couple years. It just hit Netflix. I don't know. It was on their recent or trending now maybe. One of the categories of like, hey, you should watch these. And I haven't seen basketball in probably 10 years. And it holds up. It is, in my mind, it comes, it's watchability and it's it holding up is on par with like dumb and dumber and i can't figure out why i don't own this movie first of all and why i haven't watched it a hundred times in the last 10 years it is hilarious i mean it's got cami it's got cameos from al michaels bob costas and dan patrick as as sports announcers and it's hysterical i love that movie and i watched it the other night and i could i laughed alone And that's that's the sign of a good of a good movie when you're laughing out loud by yourself sitting on the couch in a quiet front room. Yeah.
Everett	Laughing.
Andrew	Yeah. Laughing. And it it holds up. It is hysterical. For those of you who haven't watched it. It's a David Zucker director. He wrote it with a with a handful of other guys. David Zucker did Airplane. A couple of the naked guns, a couple of scary movies, and just a guy who's had his fingers in a lot of big projects. It stars Trey Parker and Matt Stone of South Park, and it's hysterical.
Everett	I'm watching it tonight.
Andrew	I might again. You can hang out. We can watch it together. We might hang out, crack a couple more beers, and watch basketball. But that being said, that's just a movie that I wanted to bring back into at least 10 people's consciousness. Damn.
Everett	All 10 of our listeners, including you, mom.
Andrew	It is so funny. And number two, Binging with Babish. Are you familiar? Familiar. Love it. It is terrific. So for those of you who aren't familiar, it's a YouTube channel called Binging with Babish. And it's this guy who does cooking instructional videos. And they're short, like five to seven minutes, really quick. And he got his start by doing foods or a dish from popular media. Movies. From movies or TV. One of the ones that really stands out in my memory is a disgusting sandwich that Homer Simpson made on like a George Foreman on the dashboard of his car with like Reese's Pieces and chips. Or not Reese's Pieces, but Reese's Cups and chips, I think. And you see him in his car with a with a portable grill on the dashboard and it just looked horrendous. But he did it and he ate a couple bites of it. Most notably though the one that I've only ever tried one thing from his from his channel although I've watched most of them. I tried the lemon pepper wet that he saw in Atlanta and the whole the technique that he uses is air drying in your fridge chicken wings after you've tossed them in a half teaspoon of baking powder and a half teaspoon of salt per pound of chicken wings. So I made a pound and a half chicken wings. So I came up with almost a full teaspoon of each or maybe it was a teaspoon and a half. I don't remember exactly the ratio because I had to watch this video a couple times. So you toss it in the baking soda and the baking soda, I don't know, it's some kind of chemistry reaction that lowers the melting temperature of some stuff, which helps it get crispier. But the most important thing is that you air dry these wings overnight in your fridge with a salt and baking soda. No, baking powder. Don't use baking soda. Use baking powder, baking powder, baking powder, baking powder, this baking powder and salt mix and it air dries and then you bake them. And they were, I texted Everett like as I, as I was consuming these wings, I texted him two things. Number one, I'm never going to deliberately go out for just wings again because I'm going to make it my house. And number two is that I regretted making wings and sharing some with my kid because I wanted the wings that I gave to him. Then I tossed in ketchup and he loved them. It was amazing. But I wanted more for me. They were crispy. They were moist, juicy, delicious wings. And I just I cannot speak highly enough of that wing cooking technique.
Everett	Does the process emulate, the drying out process, does something emulate frying?
Andrew	I don't know. So he, in his video, he does the same process. He overnight dries two racks of wings. One he deep fries, one he bakes. And the ones that he baked were just, they were so crispy. He drops them into the bowl and it sounds like he's dropping little stones into the metal bowl. They were just so crispy, so delicious. I tossed them in some Frank's Red Hot, and I wish I had a better wing sauce in my house. It's not to speak poorly of Frank's Red Hot, but I wanted something with a little more.
Everett	You didn't have any of that Yellow Bird habanero?
Andrew	No. I've made a couple wing sauces with a Frank's foundation and some sriracha, but I didn't have enough Yellow Bird to be willing to sacrifice it all to tossing in wings. I need to go buy some more Yellow Bird. Habanero hot sauce.
Everett	Is this the first time we talked about wings on the show? No, we talked about hot ones.
Andrew	Okay. Yeah, okay, so you might you might be Gleaning that ever and I have a wing Problem and when Andrew says he's not gonna ever go out deliberately for wings again.
Everett	I'm a lying Clearly lying because next week he's gonna text message me that we need to go out for wings, but almost certainly yeah
Andrew	Maybe we should record an episode from a wing place. It might be a little loud. Hot mamas or something. Or bones. Yeah. I like chicken bones, but it might be a little loud. And also you're not going to hear a lot of talking. You're going to hear a lot of slurping.
Everett	This is a terrible idea for an episode. We should do it.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	Yeah. All right. Why not? So binging with Babish, we'll drop it in the show notes.
Andrew	He's terrific. And they're all entertaining. Is that a first we feast? I don't know.
Everett	I don't know. We'll find out. You'll find out when you look it up.
Andrew	Yeah, he just does great stuff. And I mean, they're all entertaining. They're short. And the unfortunate part about a YouTube video being short is that you watch like 50.
Everett	It feels like you're not committing that much until you're four hours in.
Andrew	Exactly. And you're like, well, shit. Now, I guess I've wasted today. But have I wasted today? It's like when you watch this nine minute YouTube video, like I'm done with YouTube. I saw the the Fail Army compilation from the week, and that's enough for the day. No, binging with Babish, you're like, I need more. I need more. Yeah. Yeah.
Everett	Yeah. I like it. I like it. So the only thing I've been really paying attention to in my life is photography. Andrew and I are both amateur photographers. We both have DSLR setups in our arsenal. We both have prime lenses. I've got, you know, some pretty cool some pretty cool lenses that I use sometimes that I don't use otherwise. But when we started this thing, and we talked about this earlier, we've been Instagramming. Both of us have been Instagramming and working on our skill set. Taking pictures of watches is so much different than, you know, I've got quite a bit of familiarity with portrait work, and I've done a number of weddings at this point. And the skill set for taking pictures of people, whether it's pretty different, it's totally different. It's totally different. Uh, I just did not have the skills I needed to be able to, um, take these pictures in a way that, that I found, I found pleasing. And I was looking at, you know, photos online. There's a couple of Instagram accounts and I could talk about Instagram accounts all day, but you know, Brad watched all day watching them, just looking through them. Uh, Brad Holmes, Watch You Seek user Brad Holmes has a Instagram account, bradwatch. He takes phenomenal pictures. I mean, there's just so many of them with these people that are taking these really clear tack sharp product images is, is literally what they are. Um, and so I think both of us in the last couple of weeks have sort of gone back and forth and worked on our skills and, and tried out some different techniques and gotten out tripods for the love of God. And, uh, And light boxes. Homemade DIY. Anyway, we are, our skills are getting better and I hope you guys notice that our Instagram pictures are getting better and we're going to keep working on it. It's a lot of fun. We both obviously like it. We're not doing this as a commercial venture, but we're doing it because we like it.
Andrew	Yeah. And because we like texting each other piles of photos. What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? What do you think?
Everett	But in that process, I've decided that I need a new camera, which is, I think, a pretty natural thing to decide. Does Kim know? Kim does know. She's in the next room. She probably has heard.
Andrew	Yeah, we're in trouble. She has headphones in. Oh, she does have headphones in. For the record, what is she using?
Everett	Are you guys using Roku? It's Roku. The Roku remote has a headphone jack.
Andrew	I walked out and I thought she was watching a movie on mute with subtitles on. I was like, oh, it's so sweet. And I realized that as I walked by, like there was no indicator that she like noticed my existence. And I was like, so I looked a little closer and she's had headphones in.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	And then I was amazed because I was completely unaware of that technology.
Everett	Yeah. You know, I, I plug my audio techniques into that thing every once in a while. And the audio, I don't know, I think it's fine. I've never noticed any problem with it. It's.
Andrew	I hear so poorly that all of my shows have subtitles on and my wife will really like routinely say, you know, we can turn it up and I'll be like, oh, I just assumed that you could hear it because at the volume she can hear it clearly. It is just at best white noise. I don't hear anything. So the subtitles are pretty essential for me.
Everett	So looking at a new camera, I wanted something really small. The biggest, the biggest limitation I've found in, in my photography is I don't want to lug my Nikon around. I've got a Nikon and even with even with the smallest lens I have, it's way too big to put in my briefcase. Um, it's just cumbersome. It's a, it's a big, it's a big camera. It's a DX, but it's a big DX camera. Um, it's a D 7,100, which is an old old technology at this point, but it just winds up being so big. Uh, I, I was looking at Fuji cameras and I found this cool, very old at this point, five-year-old camera, Fuji X twenties, and you can pick them up for next to nothing on eBay. and i may have ordered a camera on ebay last night did you did you buy it now or did you win the bidding i well i bid on one and lost it so i bought it now last night so i've got a camera so it'll be here tomorrow i think maybe friday i think maybe friday it's not coming from that far away it's it's coming from seattle or something like that i don't know i'll have it this week i suspect and i've been using the canon rebel
Andrew	The T3i, I think. That sounds right. I don't know. I maybe should know better. It's not even my, well, it's the camera in my house that I dusted off. No, you know, I'm definitely going to get in trouble. Yeah, you're in trouble. But that's fine. It's, I mean, the camera is getting used. It's getting exercised. Yeah. And I mean, I've seen, I mean, really, I am the limiter. I'm not in a position with my abilities to need a new camera because the camera is not limited by my abilities. Nobody needs a new camera. No, no, some people need new cameras. I have not, I don't outperform my camera's capabilities.
Everett	Yeah, no, no. And neither do I. And you know, that Rebel T3i actually is, I really like it. You, you brought it over the last week and, uh, it's an entry level, uh, really it's a bare bones entry level DSLR, but it focuses in a second. It, it does everything you'd want. It's obviously a crop sensor. I'm not, I'm not to the point where I feel like that's a huge limitation. And I, and I haven't, I don't have a ton of experience using full frame sensors, you know, the bigger, the bigger sensors. And I know that professionals want the extra dynamic range and depth of field that you get with that bigger 35 millimeter sensor. Uh, not something that, that I've ever felt the need for, but when I started looking at these X20, they have even, it's a two thirds sensor. So tiny, teeny little sensor. Um, and so there's probably going to be some, some limitations in what I can do with this thing, but it's so small. It's a fixed lens. It's a single lens system. It's a zoom lens. It looks like an old, uh, viewfinder camera. So it's, it's got some neat character. I got it for like 200 bucks. I'm excited. I'm excited. And you can drop, I can drop it in my briefcase, my work briefcase.
Andrew	I thought you were going to say you could drop it on the ground. I was like, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't drop it on the ground.
Everett	You can't. But I fully plan on taking that thing, popping the lens cap on and putting it in my work bag and not thinking about it. Because the amount of money I've spent on it, it's, it's going to get scratched up, I assume. And I'm cool with that. So I'm excited to have something other than my phone to take pictures. I've not been happy taking pictures on my phone. And I know that the The cameras you get in an iPhone, and I've got a 7 Plus, which is not a new phone, but it's a fully featured phone with a great camera, great sensor, great dynamic range in those pictures, but not having a lens... It misses something.
Andrew	It misses something, yeah. You can pretty easily pick out a phone picture against a camera picture.
Everett	Well, and I tend to over-edit my phone pictures, and then they just look like over-edited phone pictures, so I'm hoping this... You mean that's not, like, the look? a look
Andrew	I wonder if a watch face would pick up any of the Snapchat filters. Like if we could put deer faces on photos. This is, now we're talking. Now we're into uncharted territory. Okay, we should. Because who wouldn't like a cute little, little orient Mako with a deer face.
Everett	We should do a YouTube tutorial on picking up watch face Instagram filters.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	I think we should wrap up.
Andrew	You mean we shouldn't try to do a three hour episode?
Everett	Well, I kind of want to, but I don't think anyone would listen.
Andrew	They might. We're just going to watch basketball. There's probably some licensing issues there though.
Everett	Thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20. Don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye bye. Our music today is Bummin' on Tremolo by Kevin MacLeod of incompetech.com, licensed under creative commons by attribution 3.01.