Episode 37 - The State of the (Watch) Union

Published on Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:55:00 -0700

Synopsis

This podcast episode discusses the history of American watchmaking, its decline after World War II, and its recent resurgence with small brands making watches in the USA. The hosts talk about how American companies like Waltham, Elgin, and Hamilton were pioneers in mass-producing watches but struggled to transition to automatic movements and lost ground to the Swiss. They highlight current American brands like Weiss, RGM, and Timex that are assembling watches domestically or developing in-house movements. The hosts also touch on the FTC regulations around labeling a product as "American-made" and the high standards required to make that claim.

Transcript

Speaker
Andrew Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is the 40 in 20 podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Everett Man, I'm good. I'm having one of those days where I need, I need carbohydrates. I need a cookie, a piece of bread. This has only got three carbohydrates in it.
Andrew I mean if there's something. It's just barely beer. You know what I had for dinner? Tell me. I had corned beef on a Hawaiian roll bun.
Everett Yeah, I just need the Hawaiian roll bun. Okay. I'll take the corned beef too though.
Andrew I had bacon with brown sugar and sriracha glaze.
Everett So you know your corned beef food truck, it exists.
Andrew I know. One of these days I will make a special trip out just to see See, I forget the name of it, but I will make a special trip out just to see this corned beef food truck. A visit to the promised land, if you will.
Everett So, Instagram user and fellow watch fam, iluvets3, it's I-L-U-V-E-T-T-E-S-3, messaged us a few weeks ago on Instagram to say, hey, Andrew's idea already exists.
Andrew Which is the case with all of my good ideas.
Everett Right, so there's a place in Antioch, Tennessee called Max Corned Beef and it's a food truck that, to Andrew's chagrin, focuses solely on corned beef. I remember telling Andrew that I didn't think that idea would work or something to that effect. Wrong. Wrong. So this place looks incredible.
Andrew Because everything with corned beef is good.
Everett You know, when he first sent it to us, he was kind of chagrined about the prices. You know, I think that they're $14, $15, $16 for most of these entree items, but he sent us a follow-up. I think he actually went, I kind of ribbed him, you know, like $16, that's... Corned beef is hard. Corned beef is hard and... Expansive. Well, so he sends us a picture. It's just half a sandwich and this half a sandwich is like the size of a basketball. The half of a sandwich.
Andrew America.
Everett I suspect it's like a pound plus of corned beef. Uh, you know, and it looks fantastic.
Andrew And that's a good, that's a good price. Brisket's expensive. Brining it tastes time consuming. Right. I mean, it's an, it's an intensive process.
Everett You know, we've got a local place here, uh, called Falling Sky. It's a brewery and they also do corned beef. They do corned meats. They do a beef belly, corned beef and a pork belly, corned beef, or a pork belly, I guess, which is basically corned bacon. And they run from about $16 to $28 a pound, which seems excessive until you eat this magic meat all in your mouth.
Andrew Get it in there, juices flowing. Fantastic. Dripping down the chin.
Everett It's wonderful. I, at one point bought like two pounds of this stuff. I spent like 40 bucks and I thought, okay, well this will be, you know, I'll eat this over like two weeks, right? Because corned beef lasts. Not in my house. Right. I went through two pounds of corned beef in like three days.
Andrew Sounds right. Yeah.
Everett Constant meat sweats.
Andrew Yep. Totally worth it. I also made, uh, I made beef spare ribs the other day on the electric smoker. And again, I didn't get enough of that membrane off of the bottom and the flavor was right. The texture was right, but it just, they were a little bit gummy. Cause that I didn't get that damn membrane off the bottom. It's like, I'm just an idiot. I like forget. I'm so excited to get ribs on the smoker. I just forget to like fully trim and clean them. But yeah. Uh, oh man, they, they were.
Everett Very good. And you're doing a pretty slow cook on those, right?
Andrew Yep, 225. These I gave them 225 for three hours and then I wrapped them and I gave them another two. I did the 321 on them, so a six hour total. When I did the pork ribs on the smoker, I just I kept it at like 200, 225 because fire smoke is really hard to maintain a temperature in that grill format that I have. It is constant tending, adding like like three chips of wood to make sure it stays burning, but also doesn't get too hot. Right. It's a dance.
Everett It seems like it's slow cooked, but it's certainly not set it and forget it.
Andrew No, not with a wood fired, but in the electric, I mean, I went out and checked it every half hour just to make sure the temp was right. And I only had to adjust it a couple of times. Pretty money. Yeah. I would have brought you some, but they were consumed.
Everett You're going to have to get us over there one of these days and give us some smoked meat.
Andrew Yeah. Well, we'll fire them both up. I'll get the, I'll get a rack and a half of ribs in the, in the electric and do a pork shoulder on the, on the fire. Cause that way, like that way it keeps it all in one space away from the flame. Cause one side gets, it's a whole, for those of you who have an offset firebox on a grill, you know what I'm talking about. One end gets charred and the other end is perfect.
Everett Well, we'll have to do like a variety, a variety pack. Cause you know me, I love smoking wieners and I need to do salmon.
Andrew We need to, we need to go salmon fishing this year and Smoke some salmon too.
Everett I'm into it, dude. Yeah. I'm into it. Get deep. Mm-hmm. Get deep. Yeah. And you know, Northwest, we've got fantastic King Salmon out here. Uh, Chinook for the locals. We've got just Sockeyes.
Andrew We've got it all. We have all, we have five species of salmon in our water.
Everett And, and Steelhead obviously, uh, smokes really well too. I, I know it's not quite as popular, but Steelhead smokes really well. I've heard Trout does too. Yeah. I mean, Trout smokes fine. It's, it's a different, it's a different meat, so. Obviously. Well, you know, it's different. The native fish versus the, you know, the migratory fish. They just, they develop different proteins and, uh, you know, significantly bigger muscles. And they, you know, these fish eat primarily insects when they're in river, but when they go out to the ocean, their diet becomes almost exclusively squid. Um, you know, small, small fish and squid. But it's like 85% which just digests different and creates different muscles. So You don't get that same You don't get that same meatiness from trout.
Andrew I saw a video a short video the other day on the gram of a dude cleaning a fish and You could see like a it was had a really bulging stomach and he pulled out a fish that was probably and it was Still a whole fish obviously because fish don't chew things Probably about a quarter the size of the fish that it was inside.
Everett He just gulped it. Yeah. You know, I've, I've, uh, cut open a salmon before that had a bunch of little, a bunch of little hatchery trout in it. Um, like three or four of them, just little, you know, little pinners, three or four inch guys. Um, you know, fucking salmon are the weirdest.
Andrew There was probably an eight inch fish inside this, probably 18 inch fish.
Everett So he, a pretty big fish inside. He, he, he went after it and he won. You know, steelhead, Steelhead, when they come back, they don't eat. They don't really eat, so they'll attack things aggressively, but they're not really eating for food. Salmon... Certainly not survival.
Andrew Like, they know they're gonna die. They have to know. That's right. That's right.
Everett They beach themselves. Salmon, on the other hand, I think just sort of gulp whatever is around them. They're not eating for energy. They're just sort of making space. I have caught salmon that had the weirdest shit, you know? Gravel and... Like, how the fuck did you You know, why is there a three-quarter-inch rock in your gut? They're just predators.
Andrew They're like sharks. When they catch and kill sharks, they pull out, like, if they think it killed a people, they pull license plates and trash can lids and hubcaps. Boots. They just eat. Yeah, hands, you know, that kind of shit. Alligators are predators. Yeah. You know, we're really the only really picky predators on the planet. We're picky. Yeah. I want that ribeye. Oh, I had ribeye this week. Winco had a killer price. For those of you who aren't familiar, Winco is like a big box discount kind of place.
Everett Yeah, you know, I think they're like a combination between like a Sam's Club and a grocery supply. Yeah. It's weird.
Andrew They get their produce from the same places that all the organic grocers get it from. So like I said, the truck makes a stop there and then they go on to other organic grocery stores. So I know they're getting different stuff, You can order tiers, but they have typically pretty good stuff and every once in a while, like if you go in the middle of the week, they have all their just-for-you closeout pricing on meats. I fill the freezer with that stuff if it's not otherwise occupied.
Everett A lot of the local independent restaurants, specifically ethnic restaurants, do most of their- Convenient stores, too. Their supply at Winko. Yeah, convenient stores, too. Okay. Well, we maybe should stop talking about Winko.
Andrew Yeah, I move on to Cash and Carry, which is another store that a lot of local restaurants use, and they are an excellent source of meat because you can buy bulk, like, grocery-sized meat. They're a grocery supply store, and they are killer. You can buy, like, 20-pound briskets there and get a good price on it and five gallons of soy sauce. I don't need five gallons of soy sauce, but you can buy it there.
Everett They also sell, like, restaurant-quality storage, so you can get Cambro containers and stuff. Cash and Carry, y'all.
Andrew I don't know if that's a national chain. I don't know. It sounds like a national chain though, right?
Everett Yeah. And I think that there are more targeted towards retail. So we're talking about watches today.
Andrew The state of the union address. State of the union. With respect to watches. Yeah.
Everett I love it. And you don't even have to hear any Donald Trump today.
Andrew Not today. We could play a soundbite if you like, but we probably won't.
Everett Plenty of lies still.
Andrew Yeah. Oh, certainly lies.
Everett Exaggerations, complete mistruths. We got it all for you guys. Yeah.
Andrew Yeah. We won't be vulgar though.
Everett So, so this actually came about, excuse me, this came about on the 3rd as we were getting ready to record. For America Day. For America Day. Or did we record on the 4th?
Andrew No, I worked on the 4th. So we recorded on the 3rd.
Everett We recorded on the 3rd. And I got a couple of messages that said, Hey, are you guys gonna, do an America watch episode, which I feel wishing on Thursday.
Andrew So embarrassed for not having thought of that.
Everett Yeah. Like a shame. And at the point those messages started coming in, a couple of guys, uh, in particular, Instagram user euro E U R O W uh, who's been a great friend of the show. Um, Instagram user, middle six feet. Uh, some of these guys came and said, Hey, you guys are doing an America episode, right? And well, sadly we've already prepared. for a different episode. So we're not, but maybe we'll do it next week. So this is your one week late Independence Day America watch episode.
Andrew And I apologize. I've been off my game in the way of being creative.
Everett Yeah. No, you have. It's true.
Andrew Yeah. So I'm sorry to all y'all out there, but here it is a week late. Let's keep the America party going.
Everett And so in advance, before we start a huge shout out to Instagram user middle six feet. spelled just like it sounds uh who was tremendously helpful in helping us prepare for this this um what do we call these episodes i don't think he's gonna die not today we call these episodes yeah yeah so middle six feet uh who said who just has he's a wealth of information super knowledgeable when it comes to historical american watches Elgin and Hamilton just has a ton of knowledge and he was a tremendous help to us as far as Sending us information blogs to read and information and in fact, he's got more information than you or I could possibly digest For the purposes of this episode so or gain. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Andrew I mean, he's just an encyclopedia So yeah, all of you guys are I'm always amazed way more qualified to be doing this and we are yeah here we sit
Everett You know and I think it's it's that way with everybody right everybody's got their thing and so when you find someone's thing it's always really cool to see you know, I remember when we did our military watches episode and We were kind of new field watches field watches. Yeah, you're right. You're right. It was field watches and we were you know That must have been what episode 6 or 5 or it was early in the game. Yeah, it was early and You know the next day I've got this, you know 10 message DM from Dancy, you know, our British brethren, who is probably the smartest military watch guy on the planet. And, you know, I didn't know who he was.
Andrew But that means he's listening.
Everett What's that?
Andrew It means he's listening.
Everett Yeah, he's listening, you know, and he's... Sup, man? He sends us this message. And at first I'm like, gosh, I don't know what to think. I think that was the first time that it happened to us where we had published and someone was like, hey, cool episode. you guys missed some things. And here's this wealth of information. And it was kind of overwhelming at the time, you know, I don't know who this guy is. Um, and then, and then, and then things started clicking because he had already been on two broke watch snobs at that point. And I had listened to his episode and it was a little, I connected the dots and I'm like, Oh man, we've just been blessed by, you know, this expert, uh, and it's kind of overwhelming and cool and humbling. Um, but now it happens. I don't know, every week almost it seems like.
Andrew I think it was definitely the first experience that we had of listener feedback that was sharing information with us to make us more knowledgeable, to make us better. Because that was one of the reasons that we wanted to do this is to get smarter and to connect with everybody in the Watch Fam in a meaningful way where we can, I mean, talk watches and drink beer and do what we like and engage folks in the same conversation because there aren't many watch people that I know personally, uh, and, and through this process, we've come to know quite a, quite a good amount of watch people with way more knowledge who are way smarter than we are. And that's kind of what we wanted.
Everett Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool. You know, it makes me, it makes me really excited to, you know, transition maybe to this next phase of our show. And we've talked about this internally and I think we've probably talked about it publicly a little bit, but I think the next phase of our show, we're really gonna concentrate on the on the interview format, so more guests, more people that I want to talk to, and that I'm guessing you want to listen to.
Andrew You being the listener, because I also want to talk to them.
Everett Right. You being the listener, that you, person who takes time out of your week to listen to us ramble, to give you some variety to really open up what we're doing here. Yeah, thanks Middle Six Feet. Thanks, Dan C. from four months ago.
Andrew Thanks, everybody. Keep writing in with ideas. Yeah, we love it. We like doing ideas that aren't homegrown. We love your episode suggestions and things you want us to talk about. A, you're more inclined to listen. And B, it breaks up the humdrum of things that we're thinking about, questions that we want to answer.
Everett You know, we did get a suggestion this week to do a Swedish Watch episode. I think it came no tongue in cheek and which makes me consider it too, but I thought well that's interesting.
Andrew So let's just do a globetrot. We'll just focus on watches that are coming from countries.
Everett We'll have to take a look at it. I thought a Swedish watch episode. I don't know.
Andrew There's got to be cause for it. We're doing an American watch episode and let's be real at this point in history in the way of mega brands.
Everett Do you really think that we're gonna have Sweden beat? Yeah, no, we do not. I mean Daniel Wellington's out of Sweden, so we already lose. Daniel Wellington's a global powerhouse.
Andrew There is one really impressive watch brand that I'm excited to talk about as we get a little bit deeper into this that is not just an American watchmaker, he's an Oregon-based watchmaker.
Everett Ooh, I dig it, man. Well, let's get right into it. Can you start me off in the 17th century watch world?
Andrew Let's just start off by saying There was a whole lot of promise from the American watch industry. And we sacrificed our prowess as global watchmakers and powerhouses to fight in World War II.
Everett That's the TLDR of this story.
Andrew Yeah. That's, that's how it happened. So Switzerland, you can keep, you can keep it. You're welcome. The rest of the world, because this is our 4th of July episode. So I can be a little bit gross.
Everett It's our 11th of the July.
Andrew No, it's our America Day celebration episode. Okay. You don't know when we're recording.
Everett Yeah, but they've already listened to the 4th of July episode. Maybe, hopefully. Regardless, start us off. We took one for the team. So, you know, America, America, we're babies, right?
Andrew We're babies.
Everett Yeah, just children's. And internationally, we're babies, right? We've been, you know, everybody at this point has seen Hamilton and if you haven't you should but you know really we're talking about middle of the 18th century before America you know gets its feet under it um and so so so while the Swiss and the British were killing it and making watches 17th and 18th century America really doesn't get started We're working on roads. That's right. Infrastructure, governance, you know, we're building a country.
Andrew A revolution and a few wars, you know.
Everett What does happen, though, is particularly in the Northeast, the manufacturing processes in America, because of the way our country's coming from nothing, you know, blank page, We're killing it in terms of manufacturing. So we've got smart people, innovative people, and they just, you know, mid 19th century, early 19th century, we've got some of the best machining processes, manufacturing processes in the world because of what we've become as a country.
Andrew Because we have the environment for it. We've got the need and we've got the opportunity. And those two things collide to create this perfect storm of innovation and entrepreneurial spirit.
Everett And so there's a little town, a little town called Waltham in the state of Massachusetts. Waltham, Massachusetts. Waltham, Massachusetts. And these guys... Do you think they say Waltham? Waltham? Waltham? I think it's Waltham. They say all sorts of weird things.
Andrew It doesn't have an R in it, so we can trust that it's not like pirate speak, but... Like Worcester, Massachusetts.
Everett Worcester, Massachusetts. That was one of those words when I was in Massachusetts and you'd say things like, grinda. You know, people would be like, I'd say, oh, you know, I'll take a grinder. You mean a grinda? Yeah, a grinder.
Andrew Yeah, we just said the same thing.
Everett No, no, it's a grinda. You know, Worcester was another one.
Andrew It's got R's, not H's.
Everett Worcestershire, but it's Worcester. Worcester, man. Wrong. Anyway, Waltham. Waltham, Massachusetts. These guys figure out how to cut metal. better than anybody in the world. Waltham, Massachusetts in particular. And this fellow named Aaron Dennison starts the Waltham Watch Company, 1854. And they make the very first 100% American made watch. Waltham Watch Company. It's kind of a big moment, right? Because it starts this thing where in the next hundred years, next 80 years, America would become the best mass market mass-produced watchmakers in the world because of our ability to make shit on an in an automated way right so you've got you know ford comes out of this movement and all these processes industry this is this is the first big industrial boom in north america and we're capitalizing on it in a way that's solving problems timekeeping was enormously important for
Andrew the expansion of railways, which was at that point in time, one of the national mandates was to grow the rail industry and timekeeping played a huge role in that.
Everett And so mid, mid 19th century, 1850s, 1860s, by the 1870s, the United States sort of mass automated watchmaking industry is the best in the world. And it's putting serious pressure on the English and the Swiss in particular, who are still doing better high-end stuff. Well, the Brits kind of fall off. The Swiss are still doing the best handmade stuff in the world, but by the 1870s, we're killing them in our ability to quickly make things, make them consistently. Um, and, and, you know, I think there's this story about this expo where they come over and these Swiss guys are just stunned by our ability to To cut screws to cut these screws for these watches because we have this fantastic precision machine Screw process and it's like holy cow. This is incredible So, you know tech advances really to interrupt there.
Andrew That's the birth of IWC and American travels to Switzerland to join those two ideas to join the the speed and reliability and precision manufacturing with Swiss elegance, with Swiss quality, and IWC was born.
Everett Right. And so, and so, right, the Swiss being the Swiss, the Swiss being the Swiss are going to figure it out. And they do. We got this. We got you, America. And so by the time we get into the 20th century, the Swiss and the Americans are very competitive in terms of their ability to make, to make watches. The Swiss still at this point, hands down, and this never changes, even to today, the Swiss still make better handmade stuff than anybody in the world. You know, the high end handmade stuff, it's still the Swiss. But in terms of mass produced, automated, to the market watches, very close. You've got the Americans and you've got the Swiss. And obviously we've got the French and, you know, we've got other countries in play. But it's really British have kind of fallen off, the Americans and the Swiss.
Andrew And the British fell off as a function of they were trying to use the American process of centralizing production, but didn't have the same processes available to them, or the technology developed as American watchmakers, or Swiss watchmakers do that have this process of bringing in specialists for each process. And everyone lives in this really close proximity and it's a decentralized, but everyone's still kind of working towards the same goal. And as a function of that, they can produce a lot more watches. And I think the figure was at the peak of their production, England was producing 20,000 watches a year and Switzerland, 200,000. I couldn't, I couldn't pull for the time period what American watch producers were. producing per year, but we're looking at a 200,000 number figure out of Switzerland with these processes in place.
Everett And this'll come back, right? This, this idea comes back into the story. The Swiss, the Swiss have a thing. And to this day, they still have a thing that makes their ability to produce watches, uh, incredible. So, so this idea, this, this theme will come back. So, um, you know, 1900s Americans are doing in-house. Swiss are outsourcing most of their products. So, so America, you know, you can think of a building and in that building we've got, we're making mainsprings here. We're making, you know, the hibache, which is maybe the mainspring too. I don't know. That sounds cool when you say it. You know, they, they're making the hibache over here. They're making the, the jewels here and they're making the cases and the crystals here in this section of the building. second floor, you've got your dials and straps, you know, they're making everything in the same building. Versus the Swiss, they actually have folks making mainsprings in a building in this town. In one valley. And they've got folks making jewels over here in this town. And so you run into a thing in America where if you have a problem in-house, you don't have the ability to outsource. And this, and this is the thing that both made the American watch industry strong, but also eventually leads to their downfall, right?
Andrew I think it's exactly where the American watch industry currently is. I think that spirit of in-house, solve your own problems, do your own thing is alive and well in America.
Everett Yeah, right. It's that rugged individualism.
Andrew And we'll get there.
Everett We'll get there. So, so, you know, we have World War One, World War One comes, you get the trench watch, all of a sudden, these Joe's are coming back. And we talked about this, I think, in the field watch episode, you've got Joe's coming back from war in England, or in the UK, you know, you've got your dirty dozen watches, dirty dozen. Is that right? In the United States, we've got our w 10 watches. You know, we've got this this idea of G.I. Joe or, you know, being a man and you're wearing your watch. And so all of a sudden the wristwatch is the thing to have. And so you get these wristwatch races. The Brits do okay. The Swiss obviously take off like the Swiss do. We struggle. We struggle. A few companies in particular, you know, Waltham, The first watch company really struggles with the wristwatch. And, and eventually much later in the sixties shuts down and is no longer a watch company in part, in major part, because of their inability to transition to being a wristwatch company in a world where pocket watches are no longer relevant.
Andrew Yep. And then in another part, we just could not keep up with automatic movement technology.
Everett That's right.
Andrew We being American watch companies. That's right. I wasn't there, but that was, that was a huge trigger is that is, is the manual wind kind of went out of style and it, it, the, it was replaced by the automatic wind, which is something that Swiss watchmakers and, and other European watchmakers really honed and American watch companies struggled to keep up with that development.
Everett That's right. Yeah. So, so post-World War I, you have three big players pop out, right? You've got Waterbury, Elgin and Hamilton are your big players, amongst others, right? We've still got Illinois. We've still got, you had mentioned another one earlier, Ball perhaps. Ball is there. But really, you've got these big three, Elgin, Hamilton, and Waterbury. But as you know, as the world knows, right after World War I, we get World War II.
Andrew And guess what?
Everett And that totally changes the game. Yep. Because America was busy. We was busy. making shit. And so companies like Timex or Waterbury, um, companies like Elgin, companies like Hamilton get used by the government to supply things for the war effort. And so they're no longer making watches and certainly some watches are being made still, but by and large, the majority of their manufacturing efforts get transitioned to, you know, things that you need for war radios and phones and
Andrew And more importantly, their R&D stops. You can't do R&D if you're not making watches. So their research, their development, it all comes to a grinding halt for us being America in 1941. Yeah.
Everett Yeah, that's right. And so as we all know, the World War II doesn't last for forever. It ends at some point and money gets put back into these watch companies. But by this time, The Swiss in particular have become so good at everything they're doing that we, we, the American watch industry really struggles to catch up. And these manufacturers go so far as to lobby in Congress for, you know, handouts, bailouts.
Andrew In the sixties even with, uh, with, with the space watch race.
Everett Yeah. And it doesn't work. Nope. It doesn't work. Um, you know, really only one company makes it through this. Hamilton doesn't really make it through.
Andrew Kind of. I mean, they went through and then found a new home.
Everett Waltham shuts down in the 60s. Elgin shuts down in the 60s.
Andrew You know, these companies just... Yeah, that 1950s, 60s was the death of the American watch company, by and large.
Everett So, Waterbury is, you know, the one company to sort of make it through. So, they become the United States Time Corp, and then later become the company we know and love as Timex. Now, Timex is actually owned by a Dutch company. Yep. So we consider them an American company.
Andrew They're headquartered in America.
Everett They're HQ'd, yeah, they're HQ'd here, obviously. Um, but, but, you know, owned by a Dutch company and as everybody knows, heavily reliant on foreign manufacturing. Entirely. Well, almost entirely. And so we can talk about that a little bit later, but the one American watch company to make it through is almost certainly very minimally.
Andrew American but if you look at even big big mega brand companies now their ownership changes They're making their large Swiss watch companies owned by Chinese companies, and it's it's it doesn't matter anymore it at this point It's who holds them now.
Everett That's right. Yeah, that's right.
Andrew They're they're major manufacturing corporations What would most of them have other?
Everett lines other technology lines in their portfolio not just watches because to survive on watches alone uh as a as a large corporation i i think would be impossible well yeah i mean pretty difficult right as a you know the bigger you get the the more you need to to have your fingers in other in other pies so um i think generally folks probably are familiar with the story of timex they never went anywhere you know they they killed another quartz crisis they really They leaned into it. They leaned into it. They transitioned heavily. They relied on affordable Asian manufacturing. And, you know, Timex is this giant, global, powerful company now who's just right now really taking advantage of the power. You know, I think they've perhaps slept a bit too long. Maybe, yeah. But you can see that Timex right now is figuring out that we have huge ability to affect this market, and we're going to get back into the game. No more being limited to Ironmans and cheap quartz movements. We're going to start killing it. And as we've seen with the Timex Q, or the Q Timex, excuse me, we've seen with the American, what do they call that? What do they call it? I don't really understand your question. The American documents collection. The the Marlin release that came out recently, you know Timex is killing it right now, but it's it's only been very recently that they've they've really entered back into real sort of Watchner watchmaking and I think they're they're in a unique position right now.
Andrew Just try to take back some of the American disposable income market Because the Swiss industry has a huge market share in America That's seeing some dips. It's seeing a downtrend and it's going up and down. But I think right now Timex is seeing an opportunity to capitalize on disposable income in the American consumer market to try to start to take away something from the Swiss imports. And I hope they do because they've had some cool releases in the last several months to a year. And I'm excited to see what's coming next.
Everett And if they keep selling out, you know, they need to make sure that they pace themselves and they need to make sure they're making quality pieces. But yeah, there's zero doubt in my mind that they're going to continue to open up their share of that cool watch market.
Andrew Well, I think too, with the resurgence of reissues, I think vintage watches are kind of going to be the thing for the next couple of years or vintage inspired watches. Just the way Uh, you see new releases coming out. I think that's what manufacturers are banking on is that the, the reissue, uh, and I think Timex has a lot of really great options to reissue.
Everett Yeah. We were talking about Casio jumping in that game too. Casio needs to, Casio needs to step up their, their reissue game because we all know the F91 and we know some of these vintage. They don't have to reissue because they're still in production, but their bank, I mean, in the eighties, they were just absolutely killing it with cool. You know that.
Andrew And they are dropping a reissue.
Everett They are dropping a reissue. Yeah, I sent you that. So I can't remember what the what the model was.
Andrew I don't remember the I don't remember it either. I think it's the one that Hopper's wearing in Stranger Things three.
Everett We'll drop it in the show notes for you. A new cool Casio. But America. Fuck yeah. So is that the first fuck? I think I probably dropped a fuck.
Andrew Now we've got some on the bank.
Everett Sorry, kids. So of the other, you know, big three, Hamilton. Hamilton's story is interesting because Hamilton never dies. Hamilton keeps going. They're a phoenix. They're a phoenix. You know, you had mentioned earlier the difficulty the Americans had to make automatic movements. And Hamilton was no stranger to that. They struggled with automatic movements, but what they did was go to the experts. and they went to the Buren watch company in Switzerland. And they said, Hey, we make watches. You guys make watches. We should be friends. And then they became best friends. And then they started a American Swiss operation where they'd make things here. They'd make things there. And, and we've got Buren watches with Hamilton stuff. We've got Hamilton watches with Buren stuff, shared technology, um, and really cool watches.
Andrew which I think is the first true brand collaboration we see. I can't think of any before that that's a brand merger to share technology.
Everett Hamilton was a perfect company for it because Hamilton is killing it through the first part of the 20th century. They're making really cool watches, very neat aesthetic, design choices, high quality, lots of precious metals. You know, they're sort of the luxury watchmaker in the States and not just out of some sort of domestic pride. They're actually innovative and really knocking it out of the park. Elvis, famous people are into it and they're making a competitive piece. So it was a really natural transition for them to start using a company with the fantastic knowledge about movements to keep their brand going. But what it does mean is that eventually, the writings on the wall early on, they switch, they move all of their movement production to Switzerland.
Andrew Because why not?
Everett That's the peak of the technology. And the rest is history. We all know that Hamilton is now a completely Swiss company. Bought out, sellouts. Little to no American Anchor for Hamilton at all anymore, which is kind of sad because they're this heritage American company. It's sad for me I don't know that it's sad for anybody else Besides, you know prideful.
Andrew I think it'd be a little I'm glad they don't ever try to capitalize on that heritage American brand Branding. Well, I think they recognize that it would be a little bit I Think authentic.
Everett I think that they definitely I think that they definitely I Play the play their own history. Well without being overtly Dishonest about it, right, you know, they they make they released just a few years ago a hack watch and so so Hamilton still knows where they came from and they're still able to Rely on their own library, but but I think you're right without doing it in a way that's ostentatious or dishonest. So the other one The other one Elgin watch company and this is a sad story This is a sad story, right? So Elgin, Elgin, and I'm going to quote Middle Six Feet here. Elgin was the salt of the earth company. If, if Hamilton was the Rolex of the States, Elgin was the salt of the earth watch company. They're making workhorse middle-class watches for, for every man. And there's the Lord Elgin watches, which are, which are a higher, an upscale brand, but they're not using high-end metals they're not using um platinum i i know there are some gold lord elgin's but but really they're making watches for guys like you and me and um that sort of plate puts them in a place right limited means to really innovate if if everything you're selling is targeted at the everyman it gives you limited means to really push now i do know that there were some elgin's that were very high end but it it was the It was the exception as opposed to the rule. You know, Hamiltons were making high-end watches. Elgin really wasn't. But they see the writing on the wall, this move to automatic watches, and they do something really interesting. Instead of trying to recreate a Swiss movement, they start with a blank page and they make an automatic watch movement. They make an automatic watch movement from scratch. And it's killer. It's killer. But it's deeply flawed. It's deeply flawed.
Andrew And it's... Do those two things go together?
Everett You know, they don't. They don't. It's killer in terms of innovation, and it's killer in terms of their ability to engineer this thing and put it together. But it's deeply flawed in a way that makes it such that it actually winds up hurting them. You know, They're not able to get through that and the amount of money it takes and the amount of energy that they had to invest, they just simply weren't able to make it. In 1968, Elgin shuts down.
Andrew Vostok was able to make it work because they were state funded. That's right. Yeah. You can start from the ground up when you have unlimited money.
Everett That's right. Yeah, that's right. And so we're really in the 60s in a place where all these companies are sort of on a razor's edge and, you know, by and large, they don't make it. Hamilton makes it because they go overseas. Timex makes it because they go overseas. They outsource. We're not able to do it. So this comes back to this idea of in-house, completely in-house companies versus companies with a diversified supply chain. And we see that crunch at the end of World War II that lasts really through the 80s, where to be an independent company in the United States just becomes impossible.
Andrew I mean, the last the last holdout was Bulova and they sold in what, 2011?
Everett 13? And in the meantime, they made shitty watches. Yeah. You know, and sort of akin to Timex, although Timex, I think has maybe a little bit cleaner lineage than Bulova.
Andrew But I think also Timex is comfortable with where they are in the market segment.
Everett Yeah. And it doesn't seem like Bulova ever, ever has gotten there.
Andrew Computron's dope, though.
Everett Yeah. Sick watches. So, you know, that is I think an abridged history of American watches, it's certainly not comprehensive. Can't be. It can't be. We don't have time. I mean, this would be a 10-part series and we'd screw everything up anyway. So we're definitely going to link some articles in the show notes. There's some blogs that I thought were super interesting in particular in Hamilton and Elgin that we got from Middle Six Feet, but this we hope is interesting and sort of a threshold for you if you're interested in this, and if not, if this is all you want to know, I think that's fine. Don't rely on the things we say because we're kind of idiots. Yeah. So what about now?
Andrew So now we're into the modern era.
Everett What about now?
Andrew I hiccuped and burped all at once into the microphone. You're welcome. Now, I think we're seeing a bit of a renaissance in the way of the American watch industry.
Everett Yeah, absolutely we are. Renaissance is the right word for it.
Andrew And I think we're seeing it in the way of small brands, call them micro brands, call them small brands, call them what you want. We're seeing it in the way of that, of that true to form American original all in-house and they're outsourcing for parts and stuff. But for the most part, we're dealing with a lot of in-house functionality with the globalized resources that are available to, to cut out some of the costs to cut out some of the R and D to cut out the. tens of millions of dollars it would cost to start a watch brand, and we're seeing some really great design, some really great decision-making, and some really fantastic watches coming out of small brands based right here in America. You know, we see some big stuff. I think we're on the cutting edge of the smart watch industry. Call it what you will, I mean, there's something to be said in that, because we recognize that we, American companies, recognize that That's where watches are tending towards outside of watch nerds. And that's just the reality of it. You know, Garmin's in on the game. Obviously, Apple is leading the charge. You've got smartwatch companies all over the world that are... Samsung, Xiaomi... Suunto. I mean, take your pick. Casio is in on it. Everyone's in on the smartwatch. Tissot is in on the smartwatch. We're just there. That is. a part of the watch world at this point, and it's bringing people back into watches. And I saw a smartwatch. I saw an Apple watch with a Rolex face on it the other day. And you know, it's cool. I kind of dug it.
Everett But this smartwatch move is is doing two things. One, it's crunching the big players. And two, you nailed it, right? It's it's creating this nostalgia, you know, the same the same thing that's making people want Vintage or you know vintage re-release Timex and Seiko and Casio is is making people Just generally into the idea of an analog tool because they're counterculture to a point.
Andrew That's right I saw a hipster fellow with a handlebar mustache wearing a gold Casio calculator watch, right? And I really dug his watch, but I'm not cool enough to wear the gold calculator. I know that about myself. He was because he had a handlebar mustache. You should grow a handlebar mustache. I can't.
Everett You know that about me. I think I could. I think you could. I think I could if I worked on this hard enough right now, I could handlebar what I got.
Andrew That's so icky. Oh, that's yucky. But what we're at is we're at a rebirth a renaissance in American watchmaking, where people are passionate about making watches and we've got some really cool companies out there doing that. And one that I wanted to highlight right off the bat is Keaton P. Myrick. Myrick? I'm sorry. It's M-Y-R-I-C-K. Yeah, I think it's Myrick. Out of Portland, Oregon, the dude does built-to-order 100% him in-house making the watch from raw metal, from raw materials, and they are so fucking cool.
Everett Now, is he outsourcing jewels and mainsprings?
Andrew Maybe. I couldn't tell from his website, but everything, some of his videos, he's got his machine, his little CNC machine working on things. He's building things from the ground up, and they are so cool.
Everett so cool and and what's the so so what's the price range on on marks you gotta ask you can't afford it yeah because there are not prices yeah yeah so you know i assume probably twenty thousand yeah they're in that twenty to forty thousand dollar range sort of um same as rgm you know there's a couple companies in the united states that have have really sort of taken on this mission of and crafting so and and i think that that brings me to the other thing that I think is really affecting... Not other things, but the other thing. Yeah, yeah, not other things, not yet. Just another thing that's affecting our push in America. So one, we have the smartwatch industry, and that's sort of an ancillary effect, but I think you're right on, that that's really, you know, behind this push. The other thing is EDA. Yep. ETA. So Omega is doing a thing and by limiting access to their movements or threatening to limit access to their movements.
Andrew People are forced to find other options.
Everett That's right. So you've got companies like Myrick. You've got companies like RGM. You've got companies like Weiss in Los Angeles who have said, you know, if this is going to happen, we got to do it. We got to do it. And we're at a stage right now in the United States where we're on the precipice of having the ability for the first time since the 60s to make a watch in the United States. We're still not there yet. We're close. But we're really close. I think jewels, mainsprings, and pinions. Pinions are still a struggle. So we're at a stage where, except for those three parts, we're going to get there. Being so close is going to make it so that someone, someone's going to come out and say, Hey, I'm an American Ruby maker, jewel maker. You know, I'm an American mainspring maker or whatever. It's going to happen.
Andrew It's just a matter of time. And then you're going to see companies like Shinola or Mercer or Bernhardt, like any of these American companies transition. Cause Shinola is outsourcing, Mercer's outsourcing, Bernhardt's outsourcing, and they're bringing in movements from around the world. And you're going to see the shift where people know these brands, they're comfortable with these brands. And suddenly they have the all American made the all American parts option. You're not, you're, you're going to see a price increase and that's, that's okay. I mean, for, for those of us who aren't comfortable with price increases, there's still going to be watches out there with Miyota movements. There's still gonna be watches out there with Seiko movements and that's, there's a place for them, but there's, there is a place waiting to be filled by All American made, all American parts watches.
Everett I think there is. Yeah, no, there certainly is. There certainly is.
Andrew Affordables. I mean, I need to caveat that with affordables.
Everett And I think that Weiss is there, you know, and when I, when we say affordable, we mean 500 to a thousand at the top end. Weiss is more than that, a lot more than that, but he's right there. You know, Cameron Weiss is right there. So, um, can we talk about Shinola real quick? Shinola. This is an American company. Detroit. It's a heritage American company that's sort of been revived, you know.
Andrew Doesn't have a lot of stand on the way of heritage, but plays on the heritage game.
Everett Yeah. But you know, 2011, Shinola comes out with an American made watch and I've got finger quotes. You can't see them, but an American made watch, you know, it, it only takes a couple of years for the FTC to whack that down. Right. You know, you guys can't say it's an American made watch, when you're using Swiss fucking movements. Which is reasonable to say. That's a problem. You know, that's a problem for Shinola and it's a whack down. And to this day, people will poo-poo Shinola because of this thing.
Andrew You know, from the beginning, I think... No one should have been surprised. They weren't saying they were machining their own parts. I mean, it's not an uncommon process to buy Swiss parts because they make the best parts right now, to buy their parts, assemble them, slap them in your shit and it's still American made.
Everett And that brings up an important point, right? So to say something is American made is different than to say something is Swiss made or Japanese made or French made or pretty much any other made there is. So for to be a Swiss made watch, I think it's 40 or 60. I can't remember, but 40 or 60% of the manufacturing has to happen locally. But I think that there's ways to even fudge that. It's like Kentucky whiskey. Right. That's right. To say your product is American made, it's got to be all or substantially all in America. And that goes all the way back to raw materials. Raw materials. If you buy Chinese leather and make a strap from it in the United States, you can't say it's American made. Crazy high threshold. Crazy high threshold. And it's the it's the highest threshold in the world. So when we poo-poo Shinola, we're noting that there's a different standard for American-made. So Cameron Weiss, I don't think because he gets mainsprings and rubies in Switzerland, I don't think that he can say he's got an American-made watch. I think he has to stipulate 95% American-made or whatever. That's different than anywhere else in the world. So here we've got guys that are doing all the assembly, doing all the testing, doing 95% of all of the machining, um, acquiring, acquiring raw materials locally, and they still can't say made in America. That is incredible. And, and there's going to be some pride in that when we finally do have our fully made in America watch, whoever it is, whether it's Cameron or RGM, or I'll put the money down.
Andrew You know, that's right. Maybe I won't. It depends. But I'll put some money down.
Everett That's right. So, you know, we've talked about some of these companies. We've talked about Shinola. We've talked about RGM. Now, RGM watches, they're kind of the OG in the American watch game, right? They've been making movements. I think that they're... Myrick is doing the same thing as RGM, but just on a much smaller scale. Yeah. You know, but these watches are $10,000 to $40,000. But very very very high levels of finishing plating um you know all the goodies all the goodies you're getting a watch that's similar quality to uh a handmade paddock or something you know you're getting a very high quality time piece um for your twenty thousand dollars for your toyota corolla uh or no corolla cost twenty thousand dollars i don't know i'm new off the lot you're leaving it for under 20 right so uh you know that's that there's something to be said for that maybe that's what i should get for my kid for her first car i should get me a new watch get an rgm yeah but there's lots of companies right there's you know brew watch company doing all their assembly here um you know in in brooklyn with seika megacords seika yeah that's the one seiko megacords movement um in their in their espresso timer what's the name of that watch retrograph yeah retrographs uh there's there's dozens vordic vordic's a cool company right because vordic's truly american-made they're using illinois or hamilton maybe not hamilton anymore since they got sued zodiac owned by fossil american-made Kobold, Martinero, Ogun Oscar.
Andrew Ogun Oscar makes some cool watches.
Everett You know, we could talk about, there's a bunch of brands now, and we're sort of late to the game here, and so we'd just be throwing out names like I just did, but there's a ton. If you want a watch that's made by an American company assembled here, you can find them. There's only a few that are making movements here. Weiss, RGM, Myrick, and there's a couple of others too. But, but that's much more limited and you get up in price really quickly. But if you want a watch that's assembled here, machined and assembled here, you can find them. Yeah, you can find them. So the time X, time X, before we move on time X American documents, people fucking hate this watch. And I don't know why, but people hate this watch because they want to be hating because it's a $500 quartz watch with subpar finishing.
Andrew Shinola, you're looking at 800 bucks for quartz watches. With subpar finishing. Well, maybe. I mean, I've never seen a Shinola in person.
Everett Yeah, no, I mean, they're good. I haven't seen one of these American Heritage watches. They came out about six months ago, maybe three, four months ago. But they're neat. And they're making them in Pennsylvania. They've got brass that's mine. From Benjamin Franklin's house. Right. From Benjamin Franklin's house. You know, they've done a thing. They've done a thing, which is to say, we're going to commit our company to making something in the United States. We're an American company, again, finger quotes. We're going to commit ourselves to making something in America. And I love it. Yeah. And I love it. It's a Swiss movement. It's a Swiss movement. So they're not making the movements here. That seems to be okay to me. I think so too. I think so too. Here they're employing human beings in the United States in manufacturing jobs. And they're going to be expensive. It's 500 bucks.
Andrew I mean, my F-150 was likely imported from Mexico.
Everett That's, that's the least American thing in this room. Your Ford F-450.
Andrew I wish I had an F-450. What is it again? An F-150? Like every other truck in the world. What's an F-450? Does that exist? That's America. Yeah. Um, but I, I, I think there's, I take issue with the, it must be, I take issue with the threshold for American made, uh, because in any other,
Everett Every other industry outsources imports they do things in the most cost-effective way There's something to be said for committing to doing something in America, even if it's only part of your process There's something to be said that should be applauded. So people don't like the American documents watch I think it's boring but interesting at the same time and I love the fact that it represents a commitment to Manufacturing in the United States something we are sorely lacking right now. I can get behind that so Anything else, sir? For America.
Andrew America. That was, that might be loud. Hard to say. I'll finish our State of the Union address by saying that the state of our union is strong and it is only getting stronger.
Everett You look just like Kiefer Sutherland, a designated survivor.
Andrew I haven't watched the season that dropped on Netflix yet, but I intend to this week.
Everett All right. I like it.
Andrew I'm not as handsome as him though. I think you're close. It's close. He's getting old. And yet he's still more handsome.
Everett All right. All right. Yeah, I dig it. State of the Union strong. And getting stronger. That was the important part. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And getting stronger.
Andrew State of the Union is always strong.
Everett So we love you. We love you Scottish listeners, Mexican listeners, Irish listeners, Canadian listeners, but America. France. But America.
Andrew America, right? It's our 4th of July special.
Everett On the 11th of July.
Andrew It's not the 11th. All right. All right. Other things. Other things. You go first. I will, because mine is the most important. Stranger Things 3. You haven't watched yet. I'm disappointed because I wanted to talk to somebody about it other than my wife.
Everett I'm trying so hard to finish The Walking Dead.
Andrew Okay, I get that. I appreciate it. I respect it. But Stranger Things 3, for those of you who haven't gotten on the Stranger Things bandwagon, shame on you. Shame. Yeah, shame. Tolling the bell, chasing you naked through the streets of King's Landing. Shame, shame, shame. Y'all get down on Stranger Things. There are now three seasons available for you to binge watch so you can you can kiss uh what's eight times three? 24. Okay you can kiss a full day of your life goodbye because it is terrific. Season one far and away the best which is which is normal for for television series. It feels so perfectly 80s. Everything is right. Season two was like, at the conclusion of season one, my thought was, wow, I wish that they hadn't done that because now I feel like there's no way to do a season two. Season two comes out. Wow. They've done it. How are they going to do a season three? Season three finishes. And it took me a little bit longer because I work at night right now and it's, it's whatever. Anyway, season three finishes. And my first thought is how are the literally credits roll? How are they going to do a season four teaser for season four? in the credits. Guys, watch the show. This is one of the best shows, if not the best show, available on Netflix right now.
Everett I was wondering how deep you were going to get into the superlatives.
Andrew I think it could be the best show available on Netflix right now. That was conservative. Yeah, I dig it. It's a top five TV show for me of all time.
Everett I like it.
Andrew Yeah, watch it. Do yourself a favor. And then next week, I will provide spoilers because Everett will have watched it and we're going to discuss it probably, but maybe not. But be prepared. What do you got?
Everett So I had an opportunity, you know, we like cameras. Um, you like cameras. I had an opportunity to play with a new camera, a new to me camera. I don't own it. So it's not even new to me. It was just something I'd never played with before. Are you going to keep it? I'm not, it doesn't belong to me. That's why I asked you, are you going to keep it? I could try. It actually belongs to my father-in-law and, um, it's really cool. What the camera is, is a Nikon Coolpix. P900. Now this is what's called a bridge camera or a tele zoom point and shoot. So some of you guys will know immediately what this is and the reason you'll know immediately what this is is because it's the most phallic consumer grade camera there is. It is a 2000 millimeter equivalent zoom on a point and shoot. And it's cool. So these have been out for about a year, I think, I'm guessing. Is point-and-shoot a pejorative? I don't think so. I mean, I think it gets used as a pejorative from time to time, but I don't think I use it that way. But what I mean when I say a point-and-shoot, I mean a camera that's intended to take snapshots, that's primarily going to get used in some form of auto mode, that's going to give you versatility ease of use, walkability. Now I'll say, when I think of a point and shoot, I think of something very little. I've got my little Fuji X-T20.
Andrew I think the Fuji that everyone has. I also have that camera.
Everett You've got a Fuji X-T20? We're twinsies?
Andrew Are you talking the old one that you got?
Everett No, no, no. I've got my digital Fuji.
Andrew Yeah, I think the one everyone has. I might have two of them. Okay.
Everett Well, I mean, it's a nice camera. If you have one, I'd be surprised. Um, and you didn't know what it was, right? It's not a cheap camera. Anyway. Um, so when I think of a point and click, I think of something small, preferably pocketable, or certainly not clunky. This is not that. This is bigger than a Nikon D5300 with a 50 millimeter lens attached to it. So, um, it's huge. It's gigantic. And it zooms at a 2000 millimeter equivalent. Uh, you know, so if you've ever seen a 2000 millimeter lens, that's like a telescope on the front of your camera. So it's very interesting. The people that planet earth use.
Andrew That's right. Cause you can't get that close to out yours.
Everett Um, and you know, it's got some limitation. It's got some major limitations. And if you're a photographer, it's going to be incredibly disappointing to use on a regular basis. If you're trying to shoot like a DSLR, cause it's not, it's got a tiny sensor. It's got a variable aperture lens. Which is to say it goes to from 2.8, I think, close up to 5.6 as you get into the deep range. So it's not incredibly fast. The tiny sensor means it's not going to have incredible depth of field. Um, you're not going to be able to get those creamy bokeh portraits. Um, but what it doesn't mean is if you go to the zoo and you want to catch the fly on that rhino's ass, you're probably going to be able to do it. And I think, gosh, that's so cool. 500 bucks. You can get these things for, um, it's a 67 millimeter threaded. Uh, lens so you can use filters on it. Uh, I just thought this is so cool. This is so cool. It's not something I would ever consider buying. Um, cause it's just kind of not the way I shoot, but then I'm playing with it and I'm thinking, I got to get one of these. You do. I got to get one of these. This is so fun. You know, a 2000 millimeter lens. I haven't priced them out. I don't know how much they cost, but I, I would guess to get that kind of length on a full frame DSLR. You're probably talking 10 to 15,000 minimum. I would think so. Um, you know, crop sensor to get the equivalent, it's going to be a little bit less money, but, but that doesn't do, that doesn't mean you've got closer. It just means you've got a smaller picture. Um, this has got a 2000 millimeter equivalent lens stretched out. And you're going to want it on a tripod, right? Cause you're still going to be shaky as hell. But how cool is that?
Andrew That's an unreal amount of zoom on that for 500 bucks. For 500 bucks.
Everett What a cool camera. If you're interested in something like that, you can pick them up for, you know, the price of a Hamilton khaki. Um, it's got the lens, it's got everything you need. You're going to be able to take snapshots. You're going to be able to take long zoom pictures. Um, I think just a really cool, a really cool camera. And I had a lot of fun playing with it.
Andrew So I want to play with it at the zoo.
Everett Yeah, that's the place to take it, right? Take it to the zoo and play with it and catch that fly on the rhino's ass.
Andrew People think it's weird when a single adult male goes to the zoo though. Yeah. But if you have a camera around your neck, it is less weird. Right. Or way more weird. I mean, you could take that human being who you had a part in making who's- He's a pain in the ass at the zoo because he's as excited to see things as I am, but he wants to see it all like four, five, six times. I just want to see each one for a little bit longer once. All right. Have you been to the zoo with him?
Everett With Mark? Yeah. No, I haven't.
Andrew We'll do that soon.
Everett Yeah, let's go up to Portland. Yeah. All right. Well, you got anything else today? I got nothing else. Thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20. Please check us out on Instagram at 40 and 20. Or if you want to support the show, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash 40 and 20. Don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Andrew Bye-bye.
Everett Our music today is Bummin' on Tremolo by Kevin MacLeod of incompetech.com, licensed under creative commons by attribution 3.01.