Watches You Want, But (Probably) Can't Have (325)

Published on Mon, 20 Jan 2025 23:39:38 -0800

Synopsis

In this episode of the Watch Clicker podcast, hosts Andrew and Everett discuss several new watch releases and share personal stories. They begin by examining Tudor's new "flamingo blue" Black Bay chronograph and debate the accuracy of the color name. They cover various other releases including new models from Oris, Chronofixi, Grand Seiko, Timex, Bulova, Movado, and Vacheron Constantin. The hosts evaluate each watch's design, specifications, and value proposition while providing context about the brands and their histories.

Beyond watches, the hosts share personal experiences including Everett's recent ski trip to Jackson Hole, Wyoming where he took a transformative ski lesson. They also discuss Andrew's recent purchase of a Kong-branded dog harness for his growing puppy. The episode maintains a casual, conversational tone while delivering detailed analysis of current developments in the watch industry.

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 and 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend, Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, welcome back. Hey, thanks. We took our first actual missed week.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	I mean, we didn't really miss a week. We didn't. It has been more than seven days since our last release. Also, although sometimes we, we go like a couple of weeks and nobody says anything because they're just sitting in the, in the queue to be uploaded. Yeah. Um, yeah, this is the first one where we did it on purpose. Yeah. We went more than seven days to accommodate, Changing sides of the week that we publish. So this episode will be our first episode ever published on a Tuesday That may be correct. I'm not sure that's intentionally published on a Tuesday and Yeah Here we are welcome back.
Everett	How are you? I'm doing all right, man Yeah, I got I was in Wyoming on purpose this week Yeah, on purpose. It's a weird place. You know, full disclosure, I didn't do, I didn't get about the state a lot. So I landed in the Jackson Hole Airport. We did kind of the loop around to the Jackson Hole Mountain Resort, and I did nothing else, right? Probably smart. And then we left the resort and went back to the airport. So we did go through the city of Jackson Hole, or Jackson, I guess. But yeah, it was like I didn't it's it's almost too bad, right? Cuz it's the only time I've been the first and only time I've ever been to Wyoming and you're like in the middle of two national parks and like, you know could have been eight billion things to do but you skied instead I drove through Wyoming once and I don't know probably a hundred and fifty miles east of
Andrew	some town that was just big enough to have a flashing yellow light and a gas station. I'm like starting to wonder when we're going to see another sign of, you know, human existence because I haven't seen another car. Occasionally there's some, some snow drift fences. Occasionally you drive by a gate arm on the freeway with a little sign on it that says turn around snow. Like it's 150 miles from the last game. Like what happens if that's down? Uh, and then like kind of see this structure out in the future ahead of me and we get up to it and it's like, probably a four foot high cobblestone little fence. Yeah, like a fence with a few woven wigwams in the middle of it. Like some Blair Witch stuff. And then like some shit hanging out of a tree. And then it's just gone. Right. Cause you're driving 85 miles an hour. So you see it, that's the image that I have. And then you're gone and you like, can't turn back and look at it. It's to this day, the strangest thing I've ever driven by. And there's no explanation for it. There's no sign. There's no nothing. It's just a weird, like Blair witchy thing alongside the freeway. Uh, and it was gone as fast as it came. That's my memory of Wyoming.
Everett	That's your experience. Well, uh, it's not exactly the same as my experience. Uh, I, I really didn't get to do much sightseeing. I wish I had seen the Blair witch.
Andrew	Uh, if anybody's driven through YM Wyoming and seen that same thing, I've talked to a few people who've driven through and, and clearly we didn't take the same route or it was just an apparition.
Everett	Yeah. Just about everybody I interacted with who was a local to Wyoming was international, right?
Andrew	So... So they're not local to Wyoming.
Everett	Well, I mean, presently local to Wyoming in as much as they're employed at the resort, but I think... without, I'm trying to think right now, I think a hundred percent of the food service professionals I interacted with were international. So Bulgaria, Romania,
Andrew	Interesting. I mean, it's a world-class ski resort. Yeah.
Everett	Yeah. I think that's right. They just get a lot of, they get a lot of, um, education visas out there to ski and so, but it was, it was just fantastic. I mean, it's the, it was really good. The best skiing I've ever encountered. The snow wasn't even that great. It wasn't bad. It was good snow, but, um, that resort is insane. It's it's whoo. Really good. Is that good, huh? Yeah. I mean, I was a little bit worried because it's got a reputation for being a pretty punishing mountain, you know, just being a pretty advanced mountain, I should say. And, uh, yeah, you know, I've, uh, I've gotten to a place where it felt really comfortable and, um, challenging, but man, I loved it. Fantastic. How are you? I'm good.
Unknown	I'm, you know, just chugging on along.
Andrew	Chugging on along?
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	I feel like I haven't stopped working in the last two weeks cause I really haven't. I had a day off. Yeah. I had a changeover. So my schedule is either Wednesday to Saturday or Sunday to Wednesday. Those are my options. And I changed sides of the week. So I worked Wednesday to Saturday and then my new week began. So then I worked Sunday to Wednesday and I had Thursday off. Yeah. Then right back on. And then right back on, I worked today for a little while because there was a thing that happened. So I had to go in and I have to work early tomorrow. So I'm just like, I haven't stopped working in two weeks, which is annoying.
Everett	But now you have.
Andrew	No, I just, I, my work week starts tomorrow. For you. So just building that overtime, that I don't mind so much.
Everett	Well, in any event, we're not here to talk about work schedules or skiing. Rather, we're here to talk about watches, and we've got, Andrew, I don't know, did you call your selections based on mine, or did we actually just have zero overlap?
Andrew	I called based on yours. When you send me first, I just close out my links that overlap. I see, I see.
Everett	Why don't you kick us off here, bud?
Andrew	Ooh, I am gonna kick us off. I am gonna start with a watch that you sent me, because I wanted to talk about it. Not really. I'm gonna talk first about There's just a thing worth mentioning and I think I Think it's it's kind of bothersome to me. So Tudor has released a flamingo blue For the latest spin on the Black Bay chronograph and Tudor's putting some ass into the Black Bay chronograph the whole Black Bay line That's really where they're putting ass right now This is not flamingo blue
Everett	Well, I don't know what flamingo blue is.
Andrew	Flamingos are pink. Yeah. So, uh, there's that thing, but you know, it's a cool, it's a cool color way. It's kind of in the, in the Tiffany esque color palette of blue. It's really lovely. I think this, this was maybe my favorite color way of this black Bay chronograph. Uh, it just pops with the white on the sub or on the, on the tachymeter, a little splash of red on the second hand. Black sub dials like this is just a great colorway. I'd like to see more from Tudor than just an occasional colorway release Yeah, yeah.
Everett	No, definitely. They're they're pretty slow.
Andrew	They're pretty slow to Release new watches, which I think makes sense company their size I mean they they do a bunch of special edition of the Pelagos and they've got you know 75 skews of that at this point and then they're gonna add a Blue.
Everett	I mean, compared to a lot of brands, they don't actually have all that many SKUs. I mean, I think it's probably less than you might imagine.
Andrew	Oh, it's less. But they have a ton of the Pelagos, though, because they do those special editions. They do like four special editions a year.
Everett	I think at any given time, they probably only have a handful. So Vuk actually made an observation. Vuk Radich, our homie from the It'sAboutTime.Email newsletter, made an observation that while we say things are Tiffany blue often, oftentimes they're really not all that close. They're just light blue. Um, this on the other hand is very, very, very close to a Tiffany blue, which, um, you know, whatever, I, I doesn't, I don't have any feelings about that, but it is a, you had said sort of in the family of Tiffany blue, this is Tiffany blue. I kind of went back and forth. It's hard to tell with, with monitors or whatever, but this is definitely evocative.
Andrew	Yeah. Yeah, cool release. I think I think my favorite color of this chronograph, though.
Everett	You know, I'm I'm kind of partial to the black dial, but and the pink was fun to the pink they released last year or earlier. Yeah, last year. Yeah, this is fun. I like it. What you got? Yeah, you know, Andrew, I think I'd like, I think I'd like to talk about ORIS. Okay. So we talked a few weeks ago, a few months ago, I should say, about the ORIS divers date and how that is almost certainly the modern interpretation of the ORIS Diver 65. And I think most people, myself included, sort of thought that was the end of that, right? The Diver's 65 is now the Diver's Date, and that's kind of it. Well, the Diver's 65 goes back to, unsurprisingly, 1965, but then it was sleeping for many years. They brought it back for, Oris brought it back in 2015 for their 50th, for its 50th anniversary, I should say. And when they brought it back, they sort of brought back a modern reinterpretation of the OG Diver 65. And there were some things that were different. The size was updated. But in a lot of ways, the dial especially was really evocative of that original. That went away a few years ago, this sort of OG Diver 65 with the negative 12369, those big box 12369 negative numerals. It just kind of disappeared from their collection. Well, Oris has brought it back now for the 60th anniversary Diver 65. It does seem like this is a swan song for the Diver 65. um that this is indeed the last one we're gonna see before they actually do transition to the diver's date and this thing is even more so than the 2015 diver 65 this thing is really, really reaching back to that original OG Diver 65. They've made a few changes. So the text at six o'clock, this anti-shock 26 jewel language is more similar to the original. And they put waterproof at the 12 o'clock, which is really, really fun. That's not language that watch companies use anymore. Correct. In the 60s, that was the go-to language for some degree of upped water resistance. It was waterproof. And companies have obviously gone away from that. I don't know if there's a legislative history to that.
Andrew	I think it has to do with ISO requirements.
Everett	Maybe, maybe so. This indeed does say, at 12 o'clock, under AORUS, waterproof, which I think is really, really terrific. It's got a terrific, like, really black dial, really deep black dial. Huge dome sapphire. Big dome sapphire, these Art Deco negative numerals. It does not have a date, which is interesting because the 2015 version did. The 1965 version did. This one, which seems to be really pulling back to that original, excuse that, date window.
Andrew	Was the 60s date window at the three o'clock? Uh, yes. I wonder if in order to keep it called the divers, they had to do something about that ISO requirement for the three o'clock numeral. So they just dumped the date.
Everett	Oh, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, that's my, maybe so. We do have a, I don't know, cause the Diver 65 has had to, whatever. So we do have a modern Diver 65 case, 12.8 millimeters. 40 millimeters wide, 46 long, 100 meters of water resistance. This is a Salida movement, so it's more affordable. These retail on this is 2,500. That's steel. So, you know, they very easily could have made this their in-house and charged a bucket load for it, but they did not, which I think is, I think is nice.
Andrew	I think that's the right move for an anniversary watch. You want that wide appeal.
Everett	I think it's nice. I don't know, I don't believe this is limited, but given that it's the 60th anniversary, I suspect this is something that will be probably not in the catalog for all that long. But correct me if I'm wrong.
Andrew	Probably a year or so.
Everett	Yeah, well, that's that's certainly possible. Yeah, that that would be a and maybe they'll just make a bucket load of them and they'll have it around for for a long time. But yeah, I think this is fun. It's a really good watch sort of got a Yeah, it's got that great 1960s diver watch feel to it. So, or 65, the pole router. I mean, there was a couple of watches that all had this feel to it. And I think this really, really feels vintage without being vintage. It's modern. Oh, they did put a tip at the bezel at 12 o'clock instead of a, instead of the triangle the Diver 65 has. So little nuggets, little nuggets of goodness. Still, we've still got a riveted bracelet. You and I have talked ad nauseum about that on this show, how that's, that's not my favorite thing, but.
Andrew	It's just a thing. Yeah. It's, and for that reason, that watch will never be for me.
Everett	Yeah, I think I could deal with it, but I'm sort of the same. You know, it's funny, I was reading about this watch earlier today. I'm wearing an 11 Atmos today. Not the same watch. Super different. Not the same watch. I mean, I don't know, Andrew, like, this will feel, I guess, maybe a little like horn tooting, but I really think that we did a good job capturing that vintage vibe. You know, there's a lot of things about this watch that I like better than the Diver 65. You know, but there's something about, there's something about this era of watches. Uh, and obviously both of these watches are modern, but that are capturing, trying to capture a bygone era of watches. And there's something about that era of watches that just tickles me. So, uh, I find the Diver 65 charming. I like it a lot. And that's all I have to say about it.
Andrew	I agree with you. I want to talk about a watch that we've never talked about before, or a brand that we've never talked about before. The Chronofixi, maybe Chronofii, Asterix. is a new watch from a resurrected brand that has a deep, deep history in French watchmaking. Chronofixi is a, was a brand that was big up until the courts crisis when it folded up shop, just kind of like everyone else. One of their claims to fame was producing type 20 watches. What kind? Type 20. Okay. Pilots watches, uh, among many other watch groups producing these pilots watches. Uh, this watch is a 50s, 60s inspired dive watch featuring Asterix, the cartoon character. So this watch is being, this brand is being resurrected by John Kreis. Kreis? C-R-U-Y-S. And this watch was designed with Remarque André, also known as a second, a second. to make a really fun first release. If you just swipe away this dial design, this is a totally acceptable tool watch release. It's got an NH35 movement. There's nothing super special or unique about it. It's just an attractive case. It's got a insert, like a good bezel, good color on the kind of faux-tined loom on the black dial. It's just an attractive watch. It doesn't come on a bracelet, that's problematic. we're gonna get to this, we're gonna get to this dial with even number Roman numerals around the dial with a three o'clock date window with kind of a fun design around the date window that does also include Roman numerals for your date so hopefully you can read those quickly. Roman numerals on the bezel, it's just fun, but your eight o'clock Roman numeral is being launched across the dial by Asterix who has punched it into oblivion.
Everett	And so for those who don't know, Asterix is a, Asterix is a Viking cartoon. I want to say that Asterix is a French cartoon, correct?
Andrew	I would think so. It's kind of like a Viking gall, just like a barbarian cartoon. Yeah, maybe that's more accurate than Viking. But it's a fun dial. And here's where it gets really exciting. 37 millimeter case, 12 eight thick, 60 click unidirectional bezel. It's got an aluminum insert, sapphire crystal, NH35 movement, 395 bucks.
Everett	Yeah. I, that's a really terrific, that's, I mean, this is, these are micro-brand prices. These are sort of vintage micro-brand prices even.
Andrew	Yeah. Like 2018, 2020 pricing. Only making 500 of these, but there are more to come, promising the brand, kind of focusing around tool watches and this, this era that this watch brand was a big producer of watches.
Everett	Yeah, I mean, it's a 1960s, it's a 1960s age case diver.
Andrew	Yeah. Yeah. With a fun design aesthetic. And you don't see that with a lot of watches of this ilk. You see a plain, not plain, you see just a standard dial, a few colorways. Not a whole lot of really creative design going into it, but this is fun, creative design, independent of also like an attractive, totally reasonable watch at a terrific price point. I know they're using an NH35 movement, like all the things make sense for it to be this price, but for the dial design. That dial design alone is something that you'd see paired up with, take your pick of brands who do an artist collaboration and it's a $1,200 watch.
Everett	You know, I think that's a tough decision to make. You know, we can be under $400 with an NH or we're at $500 with a Miyota movement. I know the direction I would go because I went that direction, but I think that's a tough direction. They've got a really decent, that 12'8 height is really pretty decent for an NH movement with 200 meters of water resistance.
Andrew	in a 37 millimeter case.
Everett	I'll be that guy though that says, you know, if you could have done Miyota and gotten this down to just a hair over 12, that'd have been cool.
Unknown	It would have been cool.
Everett	No, this is terrific, man. I really like this.
Unknown	It's fun. Yeah, it's fun.
Everett	It is not going to knock your socks off. No bracelet. That's that's always going to be up.
Andrew	That's how they save some money there, too.
Everett	But yeah, that's always going to be a no no for me.
Andrew	But yeah, especially for a dive watch, especially for a dive watch, because it's coming in like and I understand you can get leather wet.
Everett	But it's a black leather strap sure and and you know, yeah, I think you put this on a rubber Yeah, you put this on a rubber like a tropic style or perhaps even just a tropic strap. Yeah I you know, I'm sort of like I'm vacillating between a few things. I'm gonna save the good stuff for later Well, no, it's everything's good. Everything I want to talk about is good.
Andrew	These are all good only talk about good stuff here. Oh
Everett	Grand Seiko released a JDM, a JDM SBG J283. This is a Asia Pacific specific watch. I'm gonna have to turn my Wi-Fi off here. which is, according to Seiko, to honor washy paper handcrafts, which is fun. I do feel like Grant Seiko's maybe done this before. I meant to look it up and I didn't.
Unknown	I'm sure they have.
Everett	But this is a, you know, this is a 44GS recreation Seiko, and it's really, really stunning. So washi paper is a famous Japanese paper that gets used in all sorts of stuff. It gets used and made from the bark of the mulberry tree, It's this really beautiful, pulpy, durable paper that's made in this kind of labor-intensive way. You can use it for art, you can use it, art restoration specialists use it. There's all sorts of, because of its strength, there's all sorts of uses for it. Calligraphy, et cetera, et cetera. So this dial is not made of washi paper, but it is evocative.
Andrew	Perhaps it'd be cool if they did make it of washi paper instead of just a Grand Seiko textured dial because this looks like 80% of Grand Seiko's dials, but with the story I'm like, oh it does look like washi paper. Oh, you're so right Grand Seiko. You got me again And they make it blue and like damn it does look like freshly fallen snow
Everett	So this is a Ever Brilliant steel watch. Ever Brilliant, I think, is one of Seiko's steel alloys, which has got an upped corrosion resistance rating. It's got a high beat 9S86 GMT movement in it. Lovely red GMT hand that goes all the way out to the rehat. Um, yeah, I mean, it's terrific. 40 millimeters by 10.04 millimeters for a GMT Grand Seiko. Andrew.
Andrew	Only 150 of them were being made.
Everett	Yeah, but 10 millimeters for a Grand Seiko? Yeah, which is 10.04. You gotta... Sure, I'm gonna say 10. I don't have a price on these. I think it may be, if you have to ask, situation. I do think these are gonna be incredibly expensive, but it is gorgeous.
Andrew	It is just like everything else Grand Seiko does.
Everett	This is a really, if you were like, You know, I've, I've got a $15,000. I don't know how much it is. Frankly, it's probably in the 11 or 12 range, but I bet it's going to be 12, five. If you've, if you've got an itch and you to a C downtown Tokyo and B to have your first grand Seiko, I think, I mean, for me, I, this might be the coolest grand Seiko I've ever seen Andrew. I know everybody loves grand Seikos. But this, I mean, if I could just have one money being no object, I might get this watch at 10 millimeters with a GMT.
Andrew	Didn't Will have the GMT for a while?
Everett	He did, but he didn't have 9S movement. So I think his was like 12 and a half millimeters or 13 millimeters thick, which is fine. You know, I probably make everybody tired of when I bitch about thickness, especially Seiko thickness, but this thing is like, it's downright dainty.
Unknown	Yeah, it is.
Everett	It is. Yeah, I think I think this is just a really, really great watch.
Andrew	I agree. I want to talk about another JDM release that is maybe not so JDM. Timex released a trio of metal OG Iron Man 8 laps. So we've got three colorways, a kind of gold with a rubber strap, a black and silver on a bracelet, and then a silver and black on a strap. And these are the Timex Ironman 8 laps that everyone remembers.
Everett	Like Bill Clinton.
Andrew	Yep. But they're in metal cases, the one with a metal bracelet, and they just look exactly right. Here's here's the wrinkle. They are about 500 bucks. Where's the price on these? Yeah 440 for one of them 300 for one like pretty affordable for all metal Timex JDM releases and according to James Stacy who wrote this hodin key article People in the US are just buying these and they're shipping. Yeah, so they're not exactly JDM And I've always wondered that when, when there's things released that are JDM, but are released on to online retailers, how like, will they just refuse to ship it? But in his article, he says he knows people here in these United States who have ordered and received their metal Iron Man eight laps.
Everett	Now the article, the Houdinki article that I'm looking at says 343 for the all black on the bracelet and then 311 for the others.
Andrew	Yeah. There's one more.
Everett	Yeah. 311 for the other two. So, so 343 for the, for the all black, uh, the bronze gold is 311 and the bare steel is 311.
Andrew	Yeah, what a fun release. Yeah, they've come in metal before.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. This this is definitely a bit of a This isn't that this isn't Billy Clint's Iron man this these things are pretty pretty fancy. These are ballers. They're ballers.
Andrew	That's right and that's a price that I'd be I wouldn't even bat an eye it's spending on a Timex 8 lab on all metal Yeah, this is the watch I grew up wearing, but I mean, you know, not quite. Yeah, these are better objectively in every way. Yeah, I'm with you.
Everett	You know, what's the thickness on these?
Andrew	Oh, I don't know. Probably 14, 15.
Everett	Yeah, I bet they're thicker. The the the normal ones are pretty thin, but with metal with a metal case, I bet you're going to get a little.
Andrew	I bet you're going to see. For more information, visit Timex Japan.
Everett	Same case, 39 millimeter wide case. Oh, Hodinkee says they haven't been able to confirm thickness, but they do look like they sit a little bit higher. I think the OGs are like 10, or the plastic ones are 10.
Andrew	I think these are, I mean, I think they're probably 12 or so. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm probably not going to buy one, but, um, these are cool. It's a cool Timex release. Timex is already, already hitting it hard on January 18.
Everett	You know, for about a decade, maybe a little bit over that now, there's been a Japanese watchmaker, Atsuko Lottech, which has been just crushing things quietly. And in the last couple of years, they've really Up to the game so releases of the number six and the number 7.5. They've got a like a numeral naming convention for their watches one of those is like a retrograde and the other is Something so jumping hours on the number six and I oh no, jumping hours on the 7.5 and retrograde on the number six. This new watch, this is their number five KAI, and this is actually, the number five was their debut watch, something when they first came out in 2012, something like that. But they've redone this watch. The dial's totally different. This thing is nuts, as are the number six and the number 7.5. Let's talk a little bit about this. So Jiro Katayama is the owner, and he just makes crazy watches. This is a satellite wandering hour watch. What does that mean? so a wandering out yeah let's talk about what this means because i think it's really fascinating so essentially what it is is a set of three wheels satellites that exist on the dial and then a minute track and at any given time one of the three wheels will be lined up with the minute track and the wheels turn so so if you if you imagine clockwise one of the wheels has a one and the next wheel has a or excuse me counterclockwise so one of the wheels will have one the next one will have a two the next one will have a three so as the So as these three wheels turn, they each point to this minute track that takes up 120 degrees of one side of the dial. So in one-third increments, these wheels point and the wheels turn, and they each have four numerals on them. And so first it's the one on this wheel and then the two on the next wheel and the three on the third wheel, then back to the first wheel with four and so on. Um, the coolest part of this movement. So it is an in-house module hooked up to a nine OS five. Hmm. This thing is nuts. It's nuts. Really, really cool.
Andrew	It's bizarro.
Everett	Bizarro. Bizarro. It is a seven and a half millimeter mid case, but with the crystal it's 12.2 because it's got a giant box crystal.
Andrew	Because half of the movement has to be above the case. The case is just like a little pan.
Everett	It looks like a, it looks like some sort of German engineering or like measuring instrument is what it looks to me like.
Andrew	Or Japanese.
Everett	Yeah. Or Japanese, sure.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	But some sort of like, to me it looks like some, like.
Andrew	It looks like a mechanism.
Everett	You know, every once in a while you'll be like in a, like a, some sort of vintage store or something and you'll see some tool like from the 70s and it's usually made out of aluminum and it just like has these markings and you're like, I don't know what this was used for. This was used for measuring something, but the first time you come across a sextant just so well put together that I want it. This looks like that tool that you find at the Goodwill that you're like, I don't know what this does. I'll never use it, but it's so cool. I want it.
Andrew	Might even be broken, who knows?
Everett	Maybe I'm the only one that has that experience from time to time, but these are really, really cool. And it's a 9OS5, so you know what it is. They are about 4,600 euros and they are only available in Japan. So hard to get. It's a completely open work dial. The 90S5 is a perfect movement for that because it's already skeletonized. And the article I read, I believe it was on Monochrome, talked a little bit. This has these two exposed ball bearings on the dials or visible ball bearings. And apparently these ball bearings are special in that they were made by this special ball bearing maker. I'm going to not say anything else about it because I think it's a weird thing to say, but it's got these ball bearings that are supposedly special. and there's no backlash. Oftentimes, wandering hour movements will have backlash, and they've dealt with that through some sort of mechanism. The word was written in here somewhere, but I don't have it in front of me, but they've dealt with backlash that's typical for wandering hours, apparently, allegedly. This is a really cool watch. There are a lot worse ways that you could spend $4,500, and if you're in If you're in Japan, picking up your Grand Seiko, you might as well pop over and grab one of these.
Andrew	They're available by lottery. So if you win the lottery for this, head over to Japan and then pick up both because you've won the lottery. There you go. These are lovely. They're as much a work of art as they are a watch.
Everett	I mean, it's stunning.
Andrew	Really, really stunning. What's next? Oh, next up for me. I'm talking about a new edition of the Citizen Series 8 Mechanical GMT 880. Two tones of gold. If we must. Two tones of gold. Black dial. Black and green on the bezel. This thing is good looking. And because it's Citizen Series 8, it's only $1,600. A mechanical GMT, $1,600. It's all, what's the plating on here? Coated, yellow and rose gold coated. And this is, this is citizen kind of up in their series eight layer of their catalog, right? We've got the really entry level affordable zone. We've got some unobtainium from citizen and then we've got this kind of emerging and growing mid priced, you know, thousand, $1,200, $1,500 segment of cool watches in the citizen lineup that's starting to blossom.
Everett	Yeah. You know, for, for me, I'm going to say for me, uh, Citizen is missing the boat on. A citizen is missing the boat on this trend, I think, at least with this watch.
Andrew	Yeah, and I think with most of their watches, it's a little bit of a design miss, but they're they're they're dipping their toes in the water, right? There's there's weird like dime or pure pyramid or pointed grips on the bezel. The angles on the case integrating into the bezel are kind of weird. There's a strange stepped bevel. in the angles of the case. There's some oddities here, but on first glance, without like digging into it the way that we do, I dig this. It's huge. It's 40 some, how many, how big is it? 41 case diameter, 13 and a half high. It's big. Yeah, but I'm hopeful for what the Series 8 offers as a place in the citizen line once they kind of get their shit figured out. Because it's citizen, right? They're going to miss on something every time. There's always a big glaring like, what the fuck? Why did you do that miss?
Everett	You know, it feels like perhaps more than any other brand. of its stature. Citizen is, in my mind, and maybe this is me not knowing enough about watches, but Citizen is designing watches either for a market segment or a, or they're just missing either for a market segment that I don't identify with, or they're just not keeping up with design trends.
Andrew	I think it's one of those two things. It's the former because citizen is still doing the strange jewelry store counter fashion brand watches that they've been doing for a very long time. They're not gonna ever put aside that piece of market segment, but they are gonna do some cool stuff with it. I mean, a mechanical GMT in this category is pretty damn cool.
Everett	Well, they have their own mechanical GMT, right? Yeah, I don't know.
Andrew	I don't love it. I think it's a cool release. I'm looking forward to seeing more mechanical GMTs out of Citizen in this price segment. Yeah. And less Macy's watches, because this is a jewelry counter at Macy's watch.
Everett	Speaking of Citizen.
Unknown	Let's speak of.
Everett	Bulova, sister brand of Citizen has at the outset of 2025 released a watch that probably should surprise no one and yet still surprises me. They've released four colors. of new to their oceanographer collection. They're calling these the Snorkel series. Snorkel is an IP that Bulova's used for numerous watches over the years. This is a quartz diver and with colorful cases. And the cases are colorful because they're made of a material called hybrid ceramic.
Unknown	Hmm.
Everett	Does that remind you of anything Andrew? Hybrid ceramics are a polymerized ceramic mix, very similar to the material used by Swatch for the Moon Swatch collection.
Unknown	Oh, what?
Everett	Yeah. So Bulova describes this material as being luxuriously smooth with enhanced durability, which is a nice way to say plastic. I am very high on the Moonswatch relative, I think, to popular opinion, which is maybe waxed and waned over time. I think it's terrific. I'm sure that these are going to be terrific. This is a quartz dive watch. It is 100 meters of water resistant. So, you know, Say what you will. It comes in a number of colors. They've got a blue green sea turtle, a great white shark, which is gray and a. They're calling it. Clownfish, which is a white case and orange accents, which is not how I like like Nemo.
Unknown	Yeah, I know, but it's not really how I think of clownfish.
Everett	19 millimeter lugs, perforated rubber straps, kind of tropic-ish rubber straps, 15 seconds a month. This is the 2115 quartz, which runs on an SR626SW. I mean, these are fine. They're fine.
Andrew	They're fine. And they're 350 bucks. That's a fine price for a fun watch. These are quartz plastic. Both of us jumping on it. And they should. I do think, I do think, I mean, they, they could have done like the lunar pilot in this hybrid ceramic and like.
Everett	I don't know that they really have an IP that's a watch that makes sense to get this treatment. You know, Maurice Lacroix has done their icon. Obviously, we've got Blancpain with their 50 Fathoms. I mean, the Speedmaster, the 50 Fathoms, and even the icon. I mean, these watches are... IP that like it makes sense. Like, Hey, let's do this in a, this is, it's, this is a weird choice.
Andrew	It makes sense though. I mean, this is, this is the watch to do it in, but they don't have any, you know, we don't want an a 11 in this bio ceramic, pardon me, hybrid ceramic. Um,
Everett	Yeah, it fits. They're cool. I think they'll sell some of them.
Andrew	I think there's a bunch of them. They're fun.
Everett	They've got a weird wave texture on the dial, which I kind of hate.
Andrew	No, it's it's it's because you're snarkling.
Everett	Yeah. OK, fine.
Andrew	Yeah. I like the blue tang. The blue one is is good.
Everett	The. Yeah, yeah. I actually have these. The green one is the sea turtles. My favorite.
Andrew	I get why it has a brown dial, but I'm not a big fan of the green case brown dial. Yeah, fair enough.
Everett	Fair enough. Um, yeah.
Andrew	Okay. Uh, next up for me. Uh, Ooh, I don't want to talk about, I want to talk about the Movado Derek Adams. Speaking of colorful. Artist series. Uh, so Movado is, um, a brand that is known for interesting collaborations with artists. I learned a little bit about the history of Movado while reading this article. It was something that I wasn't familiar with, and that Gaglio Grinberg, founder of the Movado group, was a Cuban-born immigrant who Contributed a ton to the arts in the way of donated art collecting of art Establishing all kinds of cool stuff He was personal friends with Andy Warhol Didn't know any of this but they partnered with the artist Derek Adams to release this series of eight watches and two clocks or excuse me five watches two clocks and And they are all fantastic. So Adams is a very famous black artist. Uh, he is out of New York. Where is it? Out of Brooklyn. Uh, and focuses his art around black culture and you know, his life and his experience as, as a black man in New York. And these are stunning. These are, they, they don't look like watches because they're not there. They're, they have hands and a movement, but these are art installments. Um, and they're freaking great.
Everett	all really attractive watches, all of these, yeah.
Andrew	So 125 pieces of each are being produced You can buy the watches are $700 the clocks or and the clocks are $400. I'm really tempted by a wall clock on these Because they are really cool What movement do these have an Amanda?
Unknown	Oh, I don't know.
Everett	I think it's a it's a squirts. It's some sort of Rhonda Rhonda courts, I think it doesn't even talk.
Andrew	Oh, yeah, it's a quartz. It's gotta be Rhonda Yeah Yeah, these are just really lovely. 30 millimeters of water resistance, 40 millimeter case. They're not meant to be Warner's watches. They're meant to be art installments.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah, these are neat.
Andrew	Really, really lovely.
Everett	Um, what do we got left here? We do have a few things that are left. Oh, this is my last watch. Andrew, this is my last watch. Um, OK.
Andrew	I have one that I don't want to talk about. I sent you the link and I was kind of on the fence about it and I don't really care.
Everett	This will be my last one. So Vacheron Constantin released in 2012, re-released the re-release of the 222, which is their sort of perhaps their flagship watch within their reputation for the Holy Trinity as being a Holy Trinity sport watch company, along with Patek and Audemars Piguet. The 222 is really the watch that they have that compares to the Royal Oak and the Nautilus. They released the 222 in gold, and it was like $32,000, and it's fucking awesome. But within that, I think... It was more than $32,000.
Andrew	Cause the steel. Oh, oh yeah, yeah.
Everett	No, you're right. So this is 32,000.
Andrew	It had to be like 64.
Everett	But I think people were, I think people were sort of saying, hey, we need this in steel. Well, they've done it now. They've done it now. So this is a 222, which has largely the same case as the 2012. Same aesthetics. I mean, it's just a steel 222. So 37 millimeters. 7.95 millimeters thick on this, and I'm gonna come back to that. The gold was 7.2, or the gold was 7.8 and change, sorry. And so, a paper-thin on this, and of course, not like paper-paper-thin, but for a substantial sport watch. I want more to say this thing is terrific. It's a blue dialed steel sport watch. It's everything you expect the 222 to be. And it's terrific. They made a decision, Andrew, they made a decision. They put a Sapphire case back on this and that has, that does a couple things. One, it lowers the water resistance to a hundred meters, which is fine, but it also thickens up the case a little bit. I think I hate that decision or excuse me, it lowers the water resistance to 50 meters. And I just kind of hate it. I don't give me I don't need a sapphire case back. It's a beautiful movement.
Andrew	Obviously, it's you want to see your 22 karat gold rotor spinning in the back of the watch.
Everett	But do I don't I want water resistance? I don't know. It feels like a slap in the face for what this watch is supposed to be to me.
Andrew	Yeah, it's an anniversary edition though.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	Isn't it?
Everett	It is. It's yes, but they've obviously created the tooling for this watch, so it doesn't make any sense for them not to just have this in their catalog. I don't love that decision. that's the one decision that they made here that I think is really, you know, and, and we, we joke a lot about paddock getting rid of its water resistance, but I don't think that's what they're doing here.
Andrew	No, that's, that's, they're actually objectively reducing their water resistance whereas paddock just said, fuck it.
Everett	Yeah. We're paddock and we can say whatever we want.
Andrew	You can get it wet. It's fine.
Everett	So I don't know. I, we don't buy these watches and I gather probably a lot of you at home aren't going to buy this watch. Um, maybe Blaine will. Um, but it, so do I really get a comment? I don't know. It does bug me though. I do wish that they would give you, I do wish they could have figured out the water resistance on this.
Andrew	They did. And they made a decision so you can see your rotor. Yeah, I don't know if I don't like the font on the 222 on the rotor on the rotor.
Everett	I like it I think it's fun. I think it gives me some good 70s vibes. I dig it Say and that's like that's a classic. I'm not sure I'm fine.
Andrew	So but I don't like it.
Everett	I'm into it. I'm into it. I Uh, I have no complaints about this watch except for the water resistance. I think the watch itself is gorgeous. It's exactly what I'd want this watch to be, but for the Sapphire case back business. Um, yeah, again, I'm not going to buy it, so I don't get a comment.
Andrew	So you didn't get exactly what you wanted for to the extent you just going to come. You just got much of it.
Everett	Andrew, you want to go one more?
Unknown	I think I can be done.
Everett	Andrew, with that other things, what you got?
Unknown	Oh, I have another thing.
Andrew	So, um, I buy things for my dog with some kind of regularity. We were out on a walk not too long ago and, uh, I just had his leash on a collar and he's still so young and energetic and stupid. He is all those things. that he's just like choking himself to death the entire time we're walking. I'm like, man, I need to get him a harness because he had a harness when he was really little and he outgrew it because he's a puppy and he's just grows and grows and grows and grows constantly. So. And I did a lot of looking at harnesses, right? And I didn't look at traditional pet stores initially, cause I was like, ah, I want something a little bit more rugged. So I like did the Cabela's look around, I did, you know, sporting goods stores, because typically those are places that are gonna have a little bit more heartily and heavy duty kind of dog stuff, because they're meant for activities and not like, you're just in the pet store and like, oh, this is cute, I want this for my dog. But I couldn't find one that I liked and I, so I went to PetSmart and I'm in their aisle of harnesses and leashes and whatnot and I found a Kong branded harness and holy cow. So for those of you who don't have dogs, Kong makes these indestructible stuff for your dogs. I never knew that they made harnesses and leashes. This thing is absolutely terrific. It's got metal buckles on it. So like the places where you expect are going to fail are all super reinforced. They're all sturdy, heavy duty. This one is they're reflective with a waste bag. So it's got a little pouch for dog poop bag with a little Valve that you can just spool them out through it is Money, everything's like heavy-duty canvas reinforced This is it. I'm not gonna ever buy a different brand harness for him I just have to get a bigger one for him now because that one just doesn't fit anymore.
Everett	Yeah, you know these These aluminum buckles there. I don't know what you call the style of buckle like those pinch style.
Andrew	I
Everett	They've got a They've got like a rivet and a spring like a spring rivet in there And I wonder if that will hold up that seems like if there's gonna be a point of failure It'll be there, but this thing is and they're here's the real exciting part 35 bucks.
Andrew	Oh well shit you almost don't care if it fails, but it just there's there's China no indication of anywhere on that that's gonna Fail in its stress points. It's terrific.
Everett	It looks I mean it's exactly what you said Yeah
Andrew	Yeah, have you used it yet? Mm-hmm. Yep. He's been in it a couple times He doesn't particularly care for it. But once he's in it, he's like, yeah, I know what this means.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	Yeah, he'll be fine Yeah, I need to get him a bigger one now because this just barely fits and it's stretched all the way. Oh, yeah Yeah, he's gotten big. Yeah, he's putting on putting on the weight. Oh But yeah, that's my other thing. Kong branded a harness for your dog. Who'd have ever thought I went, I got like him, uh, I, I also bought him a collar, uh, now that I like could buy him a collar and he's not growing. So I got him one that's too big. Uh, cause I also hate dangling tags like for names and whatnot on your dog. Cause I hate that fucking sound. Yeah. So I found a I just saw a company that does like extra heavy-duty made in the USA Cordura Shit for dogs called tacti pup Yeah, and they do a full embroidered like name and your phone number on the right on the collar and it's again all metal Yeah, we got a little hardware and we got Larry of an embroidered collar. Oh wow back to we didn't use tacti pup I can't remember what brand we used That's what showed up when I was doing my searching and I was like, I can get down with that It comes with like a little a little Morale patch, Velcro, sticker, spot for stuff, and they make different patches. He just has a subdued American flag because of America.
Everett	America. Yeah, no, the embroidered collar is clutch. Yeah, we got Larry one of those pretty early on, but he only ever, when he breaks out of the house, he only ever comes directly to your house.
Andrew	And just sits on the porch.
Everett	I've linked to that in the show notes. In fact, we'll link both of those things in the show notes if you're interested in checking that out. Andrew, I've got another thing. Do me. I talked a little bit about my week in Jackson. I went to Jackson Hole, Wyoming to ski my first time there. And as we were getting ready to take off last week, I started looking at, so Jackson Hole Mountain Resort has a very well-known ski school. So they have really developed their ski school in the last, well, it's always been good, but they've really put a lot of time and money into their ski school in the last 10 years or so. And I thought, you know, maybe I'll take a lesson. I've been skiing for a while now and I've never had a lesson. And maybe it's time. This is a good time. I'm in the right place. I'm going to be in the right place. I'm at a level where I feel like I have kind of plateaued and I'm really working hard for any gains. And so I signed up for a full day ski lesson. And my wife, when I, when I told her, I was like, I'm going to sign up for the ski lesson. She was like, kind of like gave me a funny look because relative to my wife, I think my wife thinks I'm a great skier. And, um, but you know, for me, relative to the people, especially the, the, the, my ski buddies that I travel with, um, I I'm not a good skier, right. I'm clearly like third in the R and R pack. Um,
Andrew	And so I kind of explained that to her and she was like professional skiers still have a coach and take lessons every time they're on the hill.
Everett	Exactly. Right. Right. There's, there's no doubt about it that I, I could use a lesson, but more I think for, for Kim, she was trying to understand what I was trying to get. But anyway, long story short, I signed up for the ski lesson and it was just terrific. You know, uh, I think this is my other thing. I was trying to figure out what I wanted to characterize, because it's not necessarily a ski lesson. Although this is a ski lesson. I think it's one of those, I think the takeaway for me was like investing in getting better at a thing that you really enjoy doing. So if you're in your 40s or 30s, shit 20s, it doesn't matter. And you think you're pretty good at something, but you enjoy it and you want to get better. Take a lesson, whether that's golf or fishing or am fishing. You'd really like get like, take a, have a guide show you around or or skiing, I just really enjoyed it. And Andrew, I will say when we started this trip, I've got, I ski with my two law partners a lot and I am the third best skier in that group. One of those guys is really good and I'll probably never be as good as him. The other one is pretty good and he's been skiing his whole life. And they really kicked my butt down the mountain. When we left Wyoming, I moved into number two. That's how I feel. I am now the second best skier in our group. One day lesson, you know, really you think about it, it's probably like four hours, five hours on the mountain with this guy. I learned so much. I learned so much. And it's things that you don't, you know, whether it's golf or fishing or skiing or whatever, you don't know what you look like. You know what you think you're doing.
Andrew	You know what you feel like.
Everett	That's right. You see the thing. You can visualize the thing. You're trying to do the thing. You don't know what you're doing. And to have someone say, hey, look, I see what you're trying to do, but you're doing this. You're like, I am? No, I'm not. Oh, okay. So try to do this. Like, it was just instant. I mean, not instant, but over the course of five hours, I completely, and there are like these things when I'm skiing, it's like, okay, I know I'm applying pressure to the outside ski, but I'm just not getting the engagement. And within the course of five hours, I probably picked up, I don't know, 15 miles an hour on my normal cruising down a hill. And so much more control. I mean, we went from like, I can ski most blues and I can, like, I'm challenged on a black. I went from that to like, the blacks are the blues. Like blacks became blues in the course of six hours. Like, and not all, right? Not all Blacks are created equal. No, but Jackson Hole, Wyoming is known for really, really challenging runs. And I'm skiing the Blacks all over the mountain. We went up to the top. If you ever skied to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, you know about Corbett's cabin, all the way up at the top. The only way down is to get back on the tram. Is down. And take it to the bottom, or you go down the face, you go down the bowl. And I was pretty freaked out about it because there's warnings the whole way. It's like, this is advanced terrain and you should not do it unless you're an advanced to expert skier. And I'm like, if you are, maybe don't. That doesn't feel like me. But you know what, Andrew? wrote it. I planted my seeds down the fucking hill and I don't think it was pretty. I wouldn't, I wouldn't post the video on Instagram, but you didn't yard sale. I didn't yard. Maybe I did once actually. It was just a poll, but that's not a full yard sale. Uh, but I did kind of, I sat back and I, and I lost a poll, but, um, Yeah, I got down to the bottom. I was fine. I was like, yeah, I can ski this now. Just pizza, French fry, pizza, French fry all the way down. There's no more pizza. Um, but yeah, that was, uh, yeah, it was such an experience. And I just recommend it to anybody. If you're, if you're in that position, just, just do the lesson, man, do the lesson, whether it's a series of lessons or whatever. And you know, I've taken golf lessons to it. it's maybe not quite the same thing, but especially if you're a skier, take a lesson. I don't care what level you are, take a lesson because I learned so much about what I was doing versus what I was actually doing versus what I thought I was doing and how to make that change. And it's so quick, right? The techniques in skiing are so discreet. It just made me, I enjoyed my trip so much because of that just incremental change. So take a lesson. That's my other thing for the week.
Unknown	I like it.
Everett	Andrew, I think we're there. We've done it. Anything you want to add? I think we're out of things. Well, with that said, I want to thank you guys for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the watch clicker podcast. Do me a favor, go to our website. That's watch clicker.com. That's where we post articles and reviews and other pretty good written things. And oftentimes very lovely photos. If you want to follow us on social media, you can do that in Instagram at watch clicker or at 40 and 20 underscore watch clicker. If you want to support us, and oh boy, we hope you do, you can do that at patreon.com slash 40 and 20. Look guys, that is how we keep it going. The folks who are already supporting us at Patreon, we thank you so, so much. And if not, just consider navigating over there and checking that out. And don't forget to tune back in next Tuesday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Buh-bye.