Interview With Michael Pearson of Christopher Ward (292)
Published on Wed, 29 May 2024 22:18:40 -0700
Synopsis
The podcast covers an interview with Mike Pearson, the North American brand director for Christopher Ward watches. They discuss Mike's background working with other watch brands like Bremont and Zodiac, his decision to join Christopher Ward, and the brand's recent releases like the Belcanto, 12 series, and 12X. Mike provides insights into the design philosophy, pricing strategy, and future plans for Christopher Ward's expansion in North America, including plans to open a showroom in Texas. The interview also touches on topics like British watchmaking, affordable luxury watches, and Mike's thoughts on Bremont's rebranding efforts.
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Transcript
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| Andrew | Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 and 20 The Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you? |
| Everett | So good. The sun's coming in. Busy, I'm working. The sun's coming in the window and it's like it just feels like summer, man. |
| Andrew | It really does. This morning it didn't. And then the sun kind of broke through the clouds and I was like, Ooh, it's, it's, here we go. |
| Everett | It's coming. Here we go. Uh, yeah, I love this time of year, man. I just, I can't say enough about it. It's getting warm. Um, just, I dig it. Memorial day weekend, long weekend, watch private Ryan with the kids. Oh, the kids are old enough now to like see a guy picking up his arm, holding his insides on his outside. You know, I think that they sort of struggled with the, I think they struggled sort of appreciating the appropriate stoicism. Like they knew they were supposed to exhibit a certain level of stoicism, but I think they struggle like to actually have the capacity for that level of stoicism, which is interesting. It was interesting to see them sort of struggle with this thing that's very far removed from what they know, but that they understand commands respect. |
| Andrew | But there's also the interesting exposure to like cartoon violence that was that they've just been exposed to forever, right? Like, yeah, like West plays the shit out of fortnight. Yeah. And it's like, and sees the cartoon violence. So seeing it kind of realized in, in CGI and makeup, what's the, what's the word for it? There's a word for like gore makeup. No, I don't know. It's a silly word. It doesn't matter. Um, it's, there's like a strange disconnect there that I think makes it kind of hard to fully grasp it. Like when we saw Saving Private Ryan for the first time, like that was some real shit. And I still like Saving Private Ryan because of the, what they shoot in 35 millimeters. So it's like dirty film. It's like, man. |
| Everett | I mean, it was, it's a great movie. You know, I hadn't seen it in a few years and so it was, it was good to go back. But you know, it hits, I think the older you get, maybe the harder it hits too. You know, both of us being veterans, I think we have a certain amount of appreciation, you more so than I, just because of your overseas experience. You know, there was this, I don't know, I think it hit me a little bit different and certainly it was fun to watch it with the kids. |
| Andrew | I think their next good hitter is We Were Soldiers. I think that's a good progression of movies. Of the realistic war movies. Andrew, how are you? I'm good. I'm also enjoying summer. I'm not super digging that it's like daytime in my bedroom at five o'clock in the morning. So I have started sleeping with my, what I was previously using to sleep during the day with, My sleep mask, my eye cover, I've started sleeping with that so I don't get woken up by the daytime at five o'clock. Ellen the Off Chance said I'm not being woken up by screams or a child singing jingle bells and playing the child's guitar at five o'clock. |
| Everett | How is it that you don't have blackout curtains? |
| Andrew | Because I've always slept with an eye mask. |
| Everett | You of all people, you'd think you'd have blackout curtains. |
| Andrew | I'm just, I've slept, the blackout curtain is attached to my face by elastic. And it has cooling gel in it. Uh, yeah, that's I don't know. You know, and I need my solar watches to charge. |
| Everett | But Andrew, really, that's enough from you. I am pretty much over you at this point. Who I'm not over is our guest. We've actually brought someone kind of special. I say it again. I always do this like it's a surprise. You've read the tile. You know who it is. Who we have here today is the newly minted North American brand director for Christopher Ward. You know him as Mike Pearson. formerly of a bunch of different awesome watch companies now in I think hopefully maybe his forever home with probably our favorite, one of our favorite watch brands there is. Yeah. And Christopher, Mike, thanks for joining us. |
| Mike Pearson | It's an absolute pleasure. It's great to see you again. And yes, this should be here for a while. I should be here for a while at least. |
| Everett | Well, yeah, you definitely should be. We won't force you to commit to anything. |
| Mike Pearson | Oh, listen, I wasn't going anywhere the last time either, but some things, you know, you can't, you know, this this watch world never stands still. And if you see an opportunity and you think you can make a difference, that's kind of within me. I want to grow things. And this is, you know, this is a behemoth, even though it's kind of touching that micro world. It's definitely not. And I'm proud to be here. |
| Andrew | It is not touching the micro world in some people's perceptions. |
| Mike Pearson | And I've had this question more than I thought. But I think I've always tried to be cognizant of where Christopher Ward's come in 20 years, they're adjacent to that feeling when you go to a wind-up show because we stand next to micro brands and we're not in a normal store because of how we sell. But then when you look at the business, the watches, the quality, the infrastructure, what they're doing in Switzerland, which is, you know, we can get into it, which is unbelievable. And then obviously the size, it's a very exciting place to be. And, you know, the only employee here in America is quite daunting. Yeah, I'm up for it. |
| Andrew | Yeah, but there's no adult supervision. |
| Mike Pearson | That's, that's terrific. It always helps me with that. Yes. I need to kind of just go, you know, my phone, here's a computer and a credit card. I've had it. |
| Andrew | Oh gosh. And the credit card. That's the real freedom. |
| Everett | You know, after, after what? 292 hours of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things. We like, I can't remember everything we said. But I do think that Christopher Ward going back, let's say five and a half years ago, going back, I do think Christopher Ward was the first brand that we ever said this about. They feel like a micro brand, but there's really not anything micro about that brand anymore. They are a watch brand that is, you know, independent and has that grassroots feel. You know, I think we've also said that about companies like Bremont, who you're familiar with, obviously. But, you know, Bremont's obviously a different beast altogether. But, you know, we've now said that about other brands, right? We've said that about brands like, you know, Notice perhaps, or- I think even Manta fits the bill and- You know, but I do think for sure Christopher Ward, even from our earliest days in doing this, Christopher Ward was already kind of in that place for us. So it's been a time since I think Christopher Ward was truly a micro brand. |
| Mike Pearson | Well, I'll say the first time we had- Oh, decades. is its 20th year this year. And so you think about what they've done. I mean, we did the San Francisco wind up a few weeks ago since this recording, and there was, we had this big back wall and the idea was what do we do in that 20th year? And we had one model of every family over 20 years, and there was 285 watches on the wall behind us. And you know, that's all types of different models. Some were not my taste, but you can see the evolution. And then you look at the collection in front of us. It was very matured is the way I'd say it. So, yeah, it's it's very much the champion of the independence. But because of how we sell, we're viewed a little bit differently, probably than the size we actually are. |
| Andrew | Yeah, and I think that I think when you talk about the maturing, like the maturation of the brand, you know, we see a transition to this very deliberate direct to consumer model that like just makes sense in our totally globalized market space. It's uncommon for people to have hands on a watch ever before they buy it now. Like you're not people are, you know, you're not going to Macy's counter by and large. |
| Mike Pearson | I've had to put that mindset in a, in a whole different way of looking at what my job is. Whenever I started him back in the day with Ernst Benz, Bremont, uh, Zodiac as well. I mean, If it was a sales environment or if it was going to be, you know, any type of title that I've had throughout my years in the watch industry, the first thing I look at is who can sell us, how can they tell our story best and where should we go geographically? Because there are always spaces to fill. You know, there are brands that you're going to compete against. This is the internet. This is very different, but what, what I've had to really realize is that we've had 20 years of people trusting us and we have probably the most dedicated fan base that I've seen in 17 years in the watch industry. But within those. Yeah, huge, huge fans. And the ones that have really built Christopher Ward, there are still untapped potential in every city and every state that I go to. And so what I look at with Christopher Ward is making sure that people can trust us, trust the product, trust the process. And hopefully now there's a person here that which will, you know, we'll add a team to that they can trust the people to look after them. So it's, it's kind of going very much back to basics in terms of, you know, how you look after people, how you talk to people, why people would buy from you. But when the watches get into somebody's hand, then for me, the pure beauty that I've seen in people's eyes is that, oh my gosh, it actually lives up to the hype. Oh my gosh, it feels great. It feels, it looks so much better in real life. And I think what I've tried to do from those first kind of sentiments that I've seen in front of me is kind of re-educate myself. And then in the end, re-educate the consumer coming up to see me at the events or the, you know, the Red Bar Cruise or the collector community groups that we do all the wind-ups is re-educate them about what a $1,500 average price point watch should feel like because, you know, like we all know we've been into stores and I've got a budget of $1,000. They'll take you over to a few watches and the majority of them won't feel like the $3,000 to $5,000 to $8,000 watches that we all aspire to have. But if you pick up a Christopher Ward, more likely than not, you'll be like, wow, this feels great. And if you don't know the brand and then you tell them the price, it is pure shock. Or the other way around is if you know the price and then you feel the watch and you're very, very, you're very, very happy with the product you could possibly buy into. So there's so many facets to grow in this brand here. |
| Andrew | So I'm going to I have my C63 on today. Well done. I saw that we got our press release for this. I don't know. a month or so before the, the watch actually dropped. And I, so I see the press release come out and I was like, Oh shoot, I'm going to buy that watch. And then, I don't know, the same day it dropped, I, I ordered it and it was right away. It was, it was right away. Cause I knew exactly. |
| Mike Pearson | What year is that one? What year is it? |
| Andrew | I don't know. When did it release? 2022 I think. Yeah. |
| Mike Pearson | Yeah. It's not too far away, is it? Yeah. Not too long ago. You've got the, the last text as well. You've got the Christopher Ward text. Yeah. I'm six months into this particular position. And just to see that watch, it looks fresh, brand new, but there's already been evolution. And I'm learning those, those, those, those certain changes and what it means to the Kashim, what it's meant to the community. It's very, it's very interesting as well as exciting for me. |
| Andrew | So, so catch us up. The last we talked, you were with a different brand. |
| Mike Pearson | Zodiac, yes. I was a global brand director there. Oh, okay. |
| Andrew | So, you know, smaller, smaller job, right? Uh, yeah. So let's, let's catch us up. You, last we talked, you were the global brand director for Zodiac and, and now here we are around a year and a half, two years later, and you're the North American brand director for Christopher Ward. |
| Mike Pearson | Sure. Let's, uh, I, I bought the whiskey cause I knew this chat was coming. Uh, no, so I, I was in, in the UK after COVID, um, Zodiac, well, the fossil group asked me to come back and help out with, with Zodiac. Um, first of all, it was going to be very, very much just a consultancy thing. And then it ended up just being a snowball of things that they needed. I needed, um, I got very excited about what I knew they had and very excited about the things. I don't know if they realized what they had and I could help with that. And so we just kind of, you know, we re we remolded what that brand kind of stood for in the modern psyche, uh, you know, with 140 years of history behind it and given it its legs. So. It was wonderful. And in all honesty, and I've said this, you know, to Mike France and everybody within Christopher Ward, I had no intention of leaving Zodiac. And you were doing a great job. It was, it was a fantastic job, but the brand was, was smashing it. They've also, you know. |
| Andrew | You were, you were doing a good job. Like Zodiac was killing it in a large part because of what you were doing. |
| Mike Pearson | Well, thank you. But yeah, there's, there's brilliant people there. And I was very proud to kind of push a narrative that was, trusted that was backed up and you know then the Swiss side of it and the watches and I mean it all it all was on a great trajectory and it like I said to you before we press record I could have stayed there 30, 40 years and it wouldn't have mattered because I knew what that brand name deserved but I've met Mike France and now subsequently Peter Ellis the two founders, co-founders of the brand and some of his team on the road at Windup and I think the first time I really saw them work together was at Windup think it was San Francisco, the first year I did it was Zodiac. And my head wasn't turned professionally, but it was very much the acknowledgement of, wow, Mike gets his hands dirty. He pulls the boxes apart. He's mucking in with a team. He's part of the team. And I loved how a CEO, an owner, a brand founder was part of that community. And then I started to look at the rest of his team, and they really are brilliant. And then something quite crazy happened, because I am very much almost a decade with Bremont, you have your British brand goggles on, you have your blinkers on. You cannot look at different British watch brands because you grew Bremont. That was my MO, that was my psyche, that was my DNA. That's how the majority of this industry knew me until I left watches for a couple of years. But I'd never really looked at Christopher Ward watches in the metal. And so the more and more I did these wind-ups, I'd already kind of jumped into getting Vertex He was interested in fears and you know, that independent scene that's really bubbling in the UK. Yeah, but it wind up when you hold that is actually the pro 300 bronze that I'm wearing right now. They had a variation of that with a scratch dial and I was like, wow, this is just superb and the finishing and then they told me the price and that thing I just told you about being reeducated about quality to price. It was in me there from that first conversation with Olivia. Shout out to Olivia. She's brilliant within events at Christopher Ward. And so I was kind of enamored by it. I knew more of it. And then I was obviously around these windups when the Delcanto dropped. So you know, I've been part of the industry for, for many, should we say, I've been around the periphery of a lot of big things that have happened in the industry. I'm very proud to have met some really wonderful people such as Jean-Claude Biver or even Gerald Genta way back in the day when I was very young into the watch industry. But you see some of these watches drop the first Hublot Big Bang, you can see when the Milgauss, you know, really changed or certain dials or even the Black Bay came out. But when the Belcanto came, I've never seen a furore like it in this very digital space that we're in right now. And you couldn't help but go, wow, there's magic happening there. So Zodiac was Zodiac was smashing it. So sorry. |
| Everett | Oh, that's OK. I don't want to interrupt you. You're talking about a really specific moment in time. The first time Andrew and I put eyes on a Belcanto was in San Francisco. No, it was in New York. |
| Andrew | Was it in New York? Yeah, it was in New York. And Mike, I swear to God, opened his trench coat and just pulled it out like a weird little flasher and was like, I got something to show you. And I was like, OK. But oh, whoa, I want to see that. |
| Everett | I remember you were probably about 50 feet away. I remember very specifically this trajectory of coming into the show, looking at you, talking to you. Hey, Mike Pearson. Love the Zodiacs, blah, blah, blah. Turn in the corner, and there was Mike France with a big smile. Mike France, just to talk a little bit about this guy, because I'm a huge fan of Mike France, independent of the watches that Christopher Ward makes, because he was, I think, probably one of the first people that we had on the show that we were like, whoa, I can't believe this guy is giving us time. You know, and we had at that point had several brand owners on, he wasn't the first brand owner, but I think the gravity of what the, the size of Christopher Ward and the importance of that brand and the watch space. |
| Andrew | And the fact that he took the time, he was like, it was the first interview I was like intimidated going into. |
| Everett | Right. And he, and he was just so gracious and kind to us and complimentary, you know, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, the, some of that's the salesman in him. |
| Mike Pearson | But it's very genuine on it. He only says it if he means it. I'll tell you that from experience. |
| Everett | Well, and that's the way he makes you feel, too. I mean, it was kind of a big moment for us, I think. And I don't mind speaking for Andrew on that. It was a big moment for me, certainly, though. And so, you know, hearing about this moment of time. Yeah. I mean, I'm with you. Right. When when that bell canto dropped, we were like, I think maybe confused about the drop a little bit, not because because of the watch or anything, but just like, What? But I remember. So we sat down with your junior at that show. Mike had invited us to coffee, which is such a weird thing, right? He like Rosie reached out to us and Rosie's no longer with, uh, Chris forward. But at the time, Rosie was the sort of that person who would reach out to people and say, Hey, Mike wonders if you want to have coffee before the show. And we're like, I mean, obviously, yeah, but what do you say? |
| Andrew | No, this is what we've been summoned. |
| Everett | And, and, and, you know, we, we didn't know what to expect. We thought, is there something going on here? Is there going to be a pitch? And then we showed up and he was like, I just wanted to see you guys, you know, like, I just wanted to say hi and, and talk to you. And there was no, like, he was like, Oh yeah, we got, I got some stuff. I guess I could show you. I don't know. I just really actually wanted to say hi to you. It was so like, I think disarming maybe is the right word. Um, but it was, it was also sort of like for me, this really sort of clear window into the way the company has operated and perhaps their values. And by values, I mean the, the way that they interact with people and, and we're not, nobody comes to 40 and 20 and says, can I come on your show thinking, I'm going to sell a bunch of watches, you know, there have been some probably misguided entry level or brand new brand owners thinking I'm going to get some exposure here. And maybe that's partially true. But really, like folks aren't here, because they're here because they know we talk to people in this really specific space. And they they are aware that the people who listen to us are have this really unique mindset. But still Christopher Ward's commitment to that very small, very small enthusiast has always blown my mind. And that's been something Mike, Mike France has done, but also Mike, you've done that too with us, with, with different brands. You've never treated us like a sales opportunity. I mean, you've always treated us like people that are interested in watches that you'd be interested in talking about. So I mean, all that to say, everything you're saying is like, I'm like, kind of blowing my mind right now. |
| Mike Pearson | No, thanks for saying all that. And I think it kind of goes to the point of why I'm now with Christopher Ward. Mike's a great fella, but he's got over 100 people in the UK and Switzerland that are very much on that same mindset of treating people right. And, you know, we'll make mistakes. They've made mistakes, but they want to be the best they can be. And they want to make this company really special and unique. Um, when it comes to how he speaks to you guys, again, you said about me doing what I do with Zodiac, it doesn't matter. There's always going to be a bigger picture. And what you do is you're part of a fabric, and this is something you probably know. You're a part of a fabric that Christopher Ward cannot replicate. We do not have the ability to be over 18 inches of glass in a normal store. We need those people to tell our stories or at least listen to them and understand them and convert them into a way that you can, you know, you bought a watch, you buying the watch validated the fact that brand meant something to you. And it might be a small amount of sales, but they're important and you're trusted. And I think that's what I've always tried to do in my career is you look at, you know, that one sale or that presentation to a thousand people, that podcast that reaches a million or the one that might reach a few hundred thousand or even less than that, which is, you know, it doesn't matter. I'll just say it's less than that. Oh yeah. That's that wasn't on the contract before I came on here. What's going on? No, there's and you can't back out. You've signed it. But the the Christopher Ward magic is not about the watches for me. They're the bonus on top of what the team is and what the brand stands for. And I learned about all the things that made it special in terms of the finish and the quality, the two worlds, the new the new logo, you know, to say the English flag and the Swiss flag together very much is a brand that celebrates two worlds. |
| Andrew | And that was a huge victory. That was a big victory to be able to get to that point, to be using that logo again, right? It was, it was originally used and then there was some issues, right? If I'm not mistaken. And then. |
| Mike Pearson | No, how I understood it was that they, they obviously had the texts and there was a lot of people who would love the text, not like the text there. Some, some, some dudes just didn't want to do his name on the watch. Some guys and girls just didn't think it was symmetrical. Yeah. There's all types of different. It was always, it was always a conversation, right? It was always a conversation. But in terms of that twin flag logo, how I understand it is it was decided to use it on the crown and case backs and put it onto some dials with text. But the idea was don't make it full on straight away, just because you want to make sure that it works. It tells the story correctly. You know, there are legalities out there. It is a flag. There are some of the big companies out there that use a Swiss flag as well. And that's after five years, it became very much known as the fabric of Christopher Ward and now it's on everything and it's going to be on everything going forward unless it's Belcanto or 12x or one of our moon watches which we don't have a logo on at all because they don't want it and that's that's for me even better but you'll see it on the crown you'll see it everywhere that that twin flags thing it matters especially I mean I've always had a British flag with me this goes way back to my traveling days when I was in 20 years no 18 years old, I left England for the first time and lived in Spain. And I have this British flag that I've always had outside my window or took it on the journey. So it's like a good luck charm. And when I was with Bramon, I had this flag with me and it ended up being part of the displays. And I put it over the corner of some of these shows I've done for Christopher Ward. And it's not the St. George's cross. It is the union flag. But I, you know, it's just part of me. It adds a bit of color for the Americans who might not know the brand. It's an easy point out. But the Swiss team are saying, Where's our flag? We are partners. They sent me one in the mail last week, and I'm taking it to the next show. This has got to be Jörg that did this, huh? Jörg sent it personally. I knew it. I knew it. I did buy one on Amazon, but it was really bad quality. So he sent me a nice one. One of those paper flags. It was definitely, yeah, it was flammable. Put it that way. |
| Andrew | So let's talk about your decision to go to Christopher Ward. |
| Mike Pearson | Sure. Sorry, I just took a drink. That's why I timed it that way, yeah. It was perfect timing. It ended up being just a conversation with a gentleman called Peter who works within the company who I'd known through soccer, believe it or not. He would just watch people and he just kind of had one of those- How hard is it for you to say soccer? It's easier after living here so long and I know the audience out there, it's easier. But I would also preface it by saying soccer is an English word. It's an abbreviation of football association, ASOC, soccer. It comes from England, so I educate you. It's forgivable. Exactly. It's, it helps with the grinding of the teeth at night when I know I have to say it the next day. But I met, I met Peter France, uh, outside of, um, Aston Villa's stadium, Villa Park, when I played, we played his team when I was in England for a game. And I took a wrist shot of my Zodiac and his Christopher Ward. And he just texted me after that. He said, you know what? You'd be great for the team. Just have a chat with Mike. and I had a chat with him. And it was definitely nothing underhanded in terms of against Zodiac. But it was more of just to see, they keep asking, let's see if it's got the substance that matters because, you know, Zodiac did a lot for me and my family. You know, they really are a big part of, even though it was a short time, it was a massive part of my falling back in love with watches where I might have lost faith over time, which is, you know, I've kind of said that in public in the past. Yeah, Zodiac was great. But when I met Mike and actually met Peter for a very brief moment as well, we talked about football, soccer. We talked about our families. We talked about America, England. And then in the end, we talked about the plans. And that, you know, it was very, very discreet. You know, I would never have shared it if I said no. But the ambition, not because of size, but because of what they want to do for the industry. You know, you look at the Belcanto, you look at the modules, you look at their own in-house movement that's celebrating 10 years of being in existence this year, the SH21. But then they said about what they want to do within that. So you think about in the UK, the head office is in a little town called Maidenhead, just outside of London. It's in a beautiful building, but it's like an anthill. There are 57, 60 people just running around in there. And then you've got the Swiss Atelier, and then they are building and growing and adding all these fantastic partners, places that build parts for Audemars, places that polish different parts for Bulgari, and we're there next to it and taking over big, big parts of what their manufacturing is. And that type of ambition there showed me that this isn't just about making a buck. The way that they want to build means they want to be part of the fabric of this conversation, but never change from that first minute of, we'll only sell online. It'll always be costed at the power of three. And we want to make sure that services are the forefront of who we are. And I was in And then I didn't tell him that, but it was also the case of, well, what do you think we're missing? And all I felt was they didn't have the tactility across the country. I tried to let them understand the scale of scope of America, as I've seen it after living in, in, in America since 2006. Yeah. I really did bring it back to soccer as well. I'm like, you imagine Michigan is the same size as the UK and there's one Detroit Tigers, but in England, which is one part of four countries in that landmass, there are 92 professional soccer clubs. So how are you going to get that message to a state like Michigan where it's all that space in between? You've got to have trust. You've got to have tactility. And that's how I've kind of set up fast forwarding to saying yes to this tour that I've done in this first half of the year to bring trust, bring shows, bring the watches to people that have never held them before. And I am blown away by the reaction. And it's also then spurred on what the next part will be. which will be physical locations in America, which means we have the ability to not only grow, have that tactility, but also then be better in terms of, you know, how we sell, uh, the way we get it to people's hands. And, you know, that's been 20 years in the making and that's, what's very exciting. |
| Andrew | How much of the, of the calculus and making that transition was also a component of. Oh, here we go. The, the like, momentum of the resurgence of British watchmaking. British watchmaking is like having this huge moment right now and there's brands all across the country grabbing it and spurring it on. Was that a part of your calculus or was it just really good timing to like get back involved with true British watches? |
| Mike Pearson | You are the first person to ask it in that way. And I thank you for that. And also, it's very hard for me to say that it wasn't because in my heart, especially the year I had in England after COVID, I'm very much an Englishman. I'm very proud to live in America. I've got American kids. But I know where I'm from and this accent. You sound British. I'm just... Yeah, I can't change that. I'm too old and too stubborn. And I would listen to too much English radio still after all these years. But it wasn't just about the Englishness because obviously I'd had, I was very proud of my little part to play. I was dropping my flag down that I'd brought a little bit of England over here with Bremont as I launched that brand in North America. And I loved that part of me. You know, I've said I've worked for Swiss brands. I've had bad times with Swiss brands. I've turned down massive companies. But what I found when I was in England and as that transition going into Zodiac, my idea for the English side of it was giving all of them a chance to grow. So I was going to have my own agency and that was with a few different brands that I'd spoken to and consulted for or started to talk about consulting for. The thing with Christopher Ward is that they are that beacon of what's great about the English watch industry without having to say it has to all be done in England, which is obviously a contradiction of what I did with Bremont, they know that the best watchmaking facilities right now for what they do are in Switzerland. But the way that we design in England, and Mike's very strong to say England and not Britain for the design because Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish design and flair and accents and humor is slightly different to the English. But it should stand on its own in that way. And I think they're really proud of that. And I love that single mindedness. I love that. that sharing of ideals, but also understanding that we can only get to a certain point without the help of the best. But if we really don't try and hide it, and we're very open about pricing, design, where it's made, who we partner with, then they can do it right. And that is, for me, what got me. It was nothing. In the end, it could have, you know, I say this, it could have been a Spanish brand. You never know. But I do think because of the language and because of Mike himself and the watches, that I understood. Yeah, in the end, it was the company values that mattered more to me than the geographical location. |
| Andrew | Hang on, I have to interrupt. You have a question, but I have a question that's right on point. You and I are using two different words. I would maybe use them interchangeably. Are you saying English and British here? Yes. And you made an interesting distinction. And, you know, just what? three weeks ago, four weeks ago, was, oh, British Watch, British Watch something. British Watchmakers Day. Yes, British Watchmakers Day. Out of the British Alliance, yeah. Okay. You're saying English. |
| Mike Pearson | So, there are, the wonderful thing about the Alliance is that you can have someone as incredible as Roger Smith over in the Isle of Man, which is very much a small island part of Great Britain. You can have the Scottish guys up with the, with Isotope, or you can find Yeah, there's Northern Irish brands. They all have, like myself, we are all under that same umbrella of Great Britain. To give it its proper title on my passport, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. There are four countries. And as Ted Lasso says, how many countries are in this country? But there are four. And what you find with the Britishness of it all is that we are all under one flag. We all live under the same rules. We all look after each other the same way. The uniqueness of our countries is very much like the states here in America, maybe on a different geographical size level. But the thing what I'm saying with Christopher Ward is they know that they were a part of Britain, very proud of that. But the Englishness of the design is what Mike celebrates, which is why the flag, the logo is not the union flag. It is the cross of St. George because that Englishness matters to Mike and Peter and the brand. And obviously that also doesn't discourage or discount the fact that we're part of Great Britain. It's just that design element is very much for them quintessentially in quintessentially English. And I think that's a really cool thing. Does that answer it? |
| Andrew | Does that help? That that answers it? Yeah, you had a question. I interrupted you. |
| Everett | No, pure digression. My question was pure digression. I I think it's an appropriate time for us to move move forward a little bit. Can you tell me a little bit about the C 63 Valor? Because I think This is a release that is perhaps of the, I don't know, half a dozen releases that Christopher Ward has had in the last year or so. This is probably the one that gets the least airtime or YouTube time or whatever. It's also the most surprising. Yeah. I think in a lot of ways, it's, it's the biggest, um, it's the biggest sort of digression from Christopher Ward, you know, you know, which says a lot in light of things like the Bel Canto or whatever, it's probably the, you know, surprise is the word Andrew said. And I think it's a good one. Tell me a little bit about that. Tell me a little bit about what the, the hopes and dreams were for that. Why make the decision to go with the Etta quartz? in that? What was going on there? And I'm not attributing any decision making to you, but you're obviously in a position to give us some of the thought process there. |
| Mike Pearson | Well, I'll give you my my first thought when I first heard we were doing it was, oh, why? Because the brand had obviously moved in. This is six months into the world. Back then it was like three months into the brand and hearing that it was coming is what was the point of doing a quartz as you know, chronometer certified quartz? Super Quartz, all that stuff that we could have said, it's still for a lot of the people that are out there. You heard the word Quartz, and we talked at the start of this conversation about how the brand had matured. Was it a step backwards? But when you listen to Mike and the design team about why it came back, and also the genuine reasons about how it came about, it completely makes sense. Especially this year, being the 20th anniversary of the brand. The brand has always had Quartz within it, and we haven't had it for a few years. So if we were going to bring back a quartz, it had to be A, for the right reason, which I'll explain in a second. And B, it had to be done in a way which is befitting of the technologically advanced way that Christopher Ward now builds watches. So obviously, as you know, or your listeners might know, we work as a partner with the Ministry of Defense. We make watches that are taking inspiration from the original watches that were built for the British Armed Forces. from Smiths, IWC, Omega. We had some really wonderful ways of nodding to the past of the 1960s and then bringing it into a Christopher Ward way. They're great watches. I've been very surprised and very happy about how they've been received. It's not about the Britishness of it in terms of the British Armed Forces and it's not about the Army, the Air Force or the Navy. It's about that kind of, especially for an American customer, they've loved it as a story to tell in a brand which has, you know, quite a short history, relatively speaking, but it does nod to the greats of watches that were put on proper soldiers, Navy sailors and airmen. With the Ministry of Defence though, you want to look at the people who are out there and who's buying the watches within that world. Yes, officers and people who are career service people, they might be able to afford the higher end watches. And our watches, even though they are around $1,000, A thousand dollars is a lot of money for a lot of people, and especially if you're not earning a ton of cash. And when you're getting into the army and you want to sell it, or the Air Force and the Navy, and you want to celebrate the fact you're doing this, they want to have a watch that they can afford, that tells a story of who they are, and also is going to be reliable. And that's when this super quartz, this one that is chronometer certified to within plus minus 10 seconds every year, it's perfect. But this watch at 39 millimeters had a perfect size, in my opinion, for guys and girls. It was, you know, not oversized to try and be like some of the traditional quartz watches we've seen out in the market over the last 20, 30 years. And each hand of each subdial represented a part of the armed forces that were there. And then if you look really closely, which is my favorite part, it still had that light, catchy case. There's a secret sauce in every single watch that any brand makes. For me, what I've seen in this very early part of Christopher Ward, is that case. There's nothing, you know, I kind of call it on the steering wheel kind of loving. When you're driving your car and you look at your watch, it could be the hands of the loom. For me, it's always the case. And Christopher Ward's case is beautiful. And so the Valor came in at a price point that was befitting of everybody in that military world. But it also, if you looked at it a little bit more on a pure level, is it kind of went back to the 20-year-old roots of Christopher Ward having the most affordable, approachable quality watch in the market. And that's why it stood in there. Um, it, I saw it only very recently in the metal and it had it at the, um, the San Francisco windup show. And it is fantastic. It's got the applied markers. Um, you know, everyone can say about loom here or there, or, you know, then color comes in or what would you have done? But even though to your point that it might've been a little bit more of a, a less talked about model because of the noise we make. It's been selling brilliantly. And that's that's a testament to the design of it all. So it's a great watch. And yeah, I was really hesitant as a pure Swiss, Swiss snobby watch guy. But then when I saw it, it was done right. And that's all you can ask for, really. |
| Andrew | And this platform is this. The 63 is like maybe the best platform. In the last 20 years. yeah in the way of versatility it the light catcher case that word hits everything versatile is what this watch does and it's also a bit of a strap monster as well oh yeah i saw your watch having a naso on it this is for any strap you want the only thing it's not for is the original bracelet that it came on that had a one millimeter taper down to this to the buckle that is my and will be forever. My only bitch about it because it is just a chunky bracelet. It balances the watch nicely. It's a crazy comfortable bracelet, but it's like wearing a super engineer bracelet. |
| Mike Pearson | Yeah, but you know what you've said there and you've proved to the whole world that you are a proper watch person. Millimeters matter. It does. It does. |
| Andrew | A 20 to 19 and a half is not a taper, Evan. It's not. |
| Everett | You know, to speak a little bit to Mike France's grace, you know, we, he's come on our show two or three times, three times, I think at this point, I think so. And, uh, you know, we've, we've never really held back with him because he's got that, um, disarming. Yeah. You know, he's always, he's always sort of given us space to say, uh, this is how we feel about things. And, and one of the things we've said, you know, to Mike France sitting much like we are right now, Uh, we said, gosh, Mike, the taper on this bracelet sucks. And, and, you know, for his part, he's like, I get it, you know, and then when the C 65s or the, the, when the next iterations, the 36 came out, he was like, we're working on it. We get it. We're working on it. And, and, and, you know, it would not to say that we inspired that change, you know, but, uh, you know, he was, he was a receptive to the things we said while we're recording. and going to publish. He was receptive to those. And you talked about the light catcher case. We've talked about the light catcher case on this show a lot. I think you're spot on. That is sort of the hallmark of Christopher Ward's design, I think, more than any one thing. We said to Mike France that it's like Spanx for watches. It's watch Spanx. And, uh, you know, I'm almost there. He was, you know, maybe a different brand owner might've been, uh, reticent to hear that, that, but, but yeah, you know, we say it in a loving way and he, I think got a kick out of it, but it is really this, it is really this, uh, um, magic trick, right? It's, it's a magic trick and it's, it's just fantastic. We're, I mean, I can't say enough about, how much we like that case. It is probably in my mind, the most elegant case on the market, the most elegant, like trademark case or not that it's trademark, but you know, uh, flagship case on the market right now. |
| Mike Pearson | Well, I have a lot of conversations over, over the last six months and the Sealander GMT comes up and obviously there's an aesthetic, which might nod to a certain crown based watch. Um, that's quite famous in some circles. But if, what I always try to tell everybody with that is everybody kind of gets something from somewhere at some point that model obviously nods to somewhere that we all know and love. Um, but not everyone can attain it, but turn your wrist to the side and have a look at how the case reflects, how it, how it catches as the, as the name says, everything around you picks up colors. It really will mold to you. And I've, I've loved discovering that as well. That was very much something that I saw. Yeah, just the last wind up, I counted over 100 Christopher Ward watches coming to our table. I mean, yes, there was thousands and thousands of people coming through, but that was a great percentage. And I get enamored by still, again, quite new to the brand, seeing the watches on people's wrists. Because, you know, there's not too much out there like it. And I'm so glad you feel the same way about the case. |
| Everett | Well, let's move it right right on then to the 12. So this is probably Christopher Ward's most sort of big entry into the market with regards to... The 12 or the 12X? |
| Mike Pearson | Well, let's talk about the 12. |
| Everett | Let's talk about the 12 generally. We're going in now. Because the 12 came out and I think it's really easy to look at the 12 from 10,000 or hell, maybe even 5,000 feet and say, wow. This is this, or this is that, you know, pick your poison because there's a lot of, there are a lot of qualified candidates for what the 12 is aspiring to be. And in some ways those criticisms or that observation is fair. But in other ways, I think it represents maybe something a little bit different, especially as it pertains specifically to Christopher Ward. I think at this point we're, what, a year, 18 months in almost of the 12. God, has it been that long? Now that that is a fully mature project, and you've just mentioned the 12X, let's hold that for a moment because that's obviously next. What has that, the 12, what has that project proven to be for Christopher Ward, and what does that look like moving forward? |
| Mike Pearson | The 12 in, you know, again, in the short time I've been there, the way I've kind of described it, it was like the gasoline being poured on the fire that the Belcanto had caused. The Belcanto was a phenomenon, is a phenomenon. There was Christopher Ward business and there's Belcanto business. That opened up people's eyes to everything we do, everything that we're capable of. You know, obviously winning the GPHG turned people's heads. I heard the necks cracking as people turned their heads towards the Christopher Ward table all the way here in Dallas. from all the different brands that didn't win and didn't know who we were. But what that Belcanto did was shine the light on us. And as that light was being shone very brightly and being talked about very loudly, we launched the 12 collection. Quite weirdly as well, obviously, at the same time, there was Chapik, you know, you got the PRX, you've got integrated conversations from history, past, present, future. And what the Christopher Ward 12 did was hit a perfect nerve for the community for price. quality, doing the right, for me, the thickness for the steel to the titanium. And obviously the titanium is a chronometer as well. But when I started with the brand, just to kind of jump forward, I got, I asked for a couple of watches to wear to really, you know, it was my job. So I chose the, the pro 300 bronze, just because it's the first one I fell in love with. And I asked for a 12. I am not much of a bracelet guy. I never have been throughout all of the brands I'd worked with or touched. Um, And I got it just after Christmas, just before I started. And they just ran out of titanium bracelets. I bought the blue dial, I got the blue dial and it came on the rubber strap. And I felt like a very spoiled kid at Christmas who didn't get the present he asked for from Santa. And I was very happy with the watch and the rubber strap is beautiful and the integration of it works perfectly. But it wasn't until I got that bracelet, put it on and sized it that I saw the magic of the 12. It is the most comfortable watch I have ever worn. I am, you know, I like a, I like a presence. I, you know, bronze or all the different brands I've ever worked with or around. There's always been a presence on my wrist. This 40 millimeter case as thin as it is, it's not about the weight. It's not about anything else like that. That's traditional. It just feels bloody brilliant. And I think that's what it's done. And, you know, you can look at the three colors that we do in titanium, the purple and the green, everyone's got a blue watch. There's no blue that color. And I think that's really smart about Christopher Ward. And then in the steel, it's, I mean, that this is again, listening to people who've come up to the desk, either at the shows I've done or the windups, um, they, they, they want to feel the watch. And it's not about maybe my emotion of how it felt on my wrist. They want to feel the watch cause it's $1,295, but it really represents the best of this watch industry for that price point. The dials really, really are highlighted in steel as well, because there's no kind of fumé finish around the edge. |
| Everett | Right, they've got the real clean dials. |
| Mike Pearson | Real clean, yeah. And I think that's the magic, which is why there's no better model or best-selling model. It's very individual. We've obviously added more colors, and we've obviously got 36 millimeters as well. And so that will continue to grow. That will keep adding through. Um, and so, you know, this year you might see an addition to the 12 collection, which is exciting. Uh, that's part of the things you're used to seeing right now. That's not the X. Um, but it is brilliant. And, um, what I do like about it is people go to the dial and they want to figure out what's been copied. What's where, where's it come from, but it's just the logo repeated and it's done in such a finite way that it, it really does, um, appease the people who like those macro lenses. Uh, but just for the guys and girls who just want something that looks good. It does that too. But yeah, it's, it's a pretty special collection. |
| Everett | Whoa. Okay. Okay. Fine. Fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. Let's then let's talk about it. Who the fuck gave Mike France and Peter Ellis permission to release a $5,000 skeleton watch? Who told them that they had the right? |
| Mike Pearson | You went straight there, straight there. All the way. Nice conversation about it as well. Well, I think it's themselves because they own the bloody company and they have the keys. Sure, sure. But it's also the fact that this is how I've kind of, and this is again, this is fresh eyes. So, um, I went to Switzerland, I went to Beale. I talked to York junior. I talked to York senior. Um, I've seen all the different models with the S H 21. This is their anniversary piece. This is the 10th anniversary of owning their own in-house caliber that an English brand had not done for 50 years before that. This watch has been in a few different models, and I've seen the collectors out there. They proudly bring them to me. I have the C60 Concept, which is the last one they did a couple of years ago before Belcanto, before the 12 itself. And the pricing's not too different of what the 12X is now. The difference between the 12X and the C60 Concept and the ones that have come before is the brand is a ton more bigger. It's got a lot more eyeballs on it. And there's a lot of people that are saying, well, Christopher Ward, you do that ding in watch and everything else is about a thousand dollars, right? And that's the, that's the, the misconception you've then got to educate about. Well, yeah, but we're not just going to do that. We can, we've got this movement. We've got our own modules. Look at our moon phase and moon glow, that JJO4, that's ours. You look at the Belcanto, we invented how to do that that way. So if we've got our own movement. Let's do it to the best of our ability and hey, it's our anniversary. Put it inside of the case elevated of the best model over the last couple of years as part of our core story to push us on. So what I loved, and this is also probably my. I don't know. I've got care too much at times, but the day of the 12 X launch, it was exciting. You saw the pre-orders coming in. It's not coming out to the end of the year, but then because we're an internet only based company, there was comments. And there was misunderstandings. And there was people saying about exactly what you just said about how dare they do a five that is $4,800 just so you know. Before customs. Yeah, but we're not talking about that. But to do a watch like that, and you know, there's the box crystal top and bottom to keep it looking thinner. There is titanium grade two all the way around grade five on the top bezel grade five on the case back. It wasn't just about the fact that the sh 21 movement was slapped inside of a 12. case. It was a very, very new case, a very nuanced way of doing it. Parts of the SH-21 were removed. The decoration of the bridges were finished differently. And if you looked at it, I don't know if you've seen it in real life, the way it's brushed and polished, the finishing is unlike anything that's been in the Christopher Ware collection. And what I did the day of the launch was I went outside and took a picture of the prototype in natural light, because sometimes no matter how pretty and how good those studio pictures are, They look too pretty and you need to see the depth. You need to see what it looks like when a sunlight bounces off it in the back garden. And it started to kind of let people understand it. Then there was the, it looks like a Zenith to five conversation came in. And so then you're talking about, well, that's fine, but how much is Zenith to five? Yeah, but you can get one for half price at the same amount of money, but why is it half price? There's all types of conversations. What we really wanted to do was do a non-limited edition. So it's limited quantity, we're going to make as many as we can make, which probably be about 1000 of this particular model, which is a ton more than we've ever done. And we wanted to do it in a way which is befitting of the anniversary of the brand, the anniversary of owning that movement, and showing what could be capable for less than $5,000. Without tax. |
| Everett | Yeah. Sorry, Andrew, you were about to talk, but I'm going to jump in here. You know, I roll. I made, of course, made an intro there that is speaking to these online comments. Oh, I know, yeah. But it's really sort of a tricky position that Christopher Ward is in. And we've talked about this with other brands, too. But there's this market expectation that a brand is going to sort of stick to what you know. |
| Andrew | You've carved out your corner in the market. |
| Everett | Stay in your lane, Christopher Ward. And that is really nonsensical, right? It's a totally irrational. You know, you look at a watch like that and there's nothing else in the market that exists at that price. I mean, we're not talking, like you said, $4,800. We're not talking about a watch that you can get, perhaps, on watches of Switzerland on Mother's Day for $4,800. We're talking about a watch that you can order from Christopher Ward for that amount of money. And so that's really something special. I'm going to I'm going to move this along here. But I remember sitting down with Mike France and Jorg Jr. And I believe the Aquitaine had just dropped at that time. |
| Andrew | Yeah, that was Aquitaine time. |
| Everett | And, you know, I wanted to talk to Jorg about the Aquitaine. And Jorg did not want to talk about the Aquitaine. You know, in fact, I don't know if he would agree with this characterization. characterization. But I would say Jörg was disinclined to talk about the Aquitaine because it's fucking boring production watch shit. |
| Mike Pearson | And you know, and it was this New York windup. Yeah. |
| Andrew | But if you talk to him about the chiming of the Bel Canto, he would have to be pulled away into the next conversation. |
| Everett | It was this really like, revelatory experience for me because Mike France is like, look at the Aquitaine, look at what we're doing. This is really tremendous. And it's beautiful. |
| Mike Pearson | Was it the Aquitaine and the GMT? Was there a model you like more? |
| Everett | Oh, well, there was all three of them, right? |
| Andrew | And they're there, you know, that was also the same time that Mike France had the trench coat Belcanto. |
| Everett | We could have a conversation about this, but I was just struck and I can't, I can't remember what he said, even to sort of properly paraphrase him. But the sentiment that he delivered to me was like, look, this is what we do because we're trying to make money. But I think you should realize that what we're actually doing is something a lot more interesting than that. And that's what I want to do. And Mike's going to sell watches. But I'm gonna make watches. |
| Mike Pearson | So I was in Switzerland, and your junior I've known for a while, his dad is probably the most captivating man I've ever talked to. He he had great pride and drive me around BLBN in his Tesla, showing me everything that we do all of our CNC machinery that the investment we're doing in terms of where we're making who we're partnering with. It was brilliant. Got to be all you know, the GPHG was proudly sitting there. I was the end of the day, Jörg Jr. had his dog there, they were ready to go. But I said, just tell me the story of how you got through the Belcanto and then show me a few things in Switzerland about the next few years, which obviously I won't say. And the excitement was palpable. And I do agree that when you're looking at, you know, Trident, Sealander, Aquitaine, Dunes, these are the bread and butter of the brand. But someone like him is looking, you know, he's got, you know, Star Trek kind of vision. He's looking through the tractor beam. He's looking to the everything that's next. And that's a testament to him what he's got though. And what Mike France always celebrates is the rest of the team. Will Bracfield is very much the same way. But the design team at the top to the design team that are underneath them and all the people that are building from there, they know that the bread and butter of any brand is going to be the core lineup. The difference that they don't have, and I think that's probably what I'm doing right now in America, is compartmentalizing the collection like I would do if I was opening a store. Like how would I what would I sell into a store to give the best representation of the brand? We talked about the Valor not getting talked about. The super compressor gets buried. The Aquitaine GMT. The super compressor is so cool. |
| Everett | Come on the super compressor. That is one of the coolest things. |
| Mike Pearson | Best dive watch in our collection by far. Just because it does exactly what it says on the tin. But When you are bringing out new colors, new styles, new dials, you are bringing out new modules for moon phases, you are using a Venturine, you are doing Bel Cantos, and then in-house calibers that make everybody go nuts online. The core is my job, Mike's job. Jorg Jr., God love him. He's going to be as honest as a Swiss man should be. He can do the core in a sleep. Exactly. When we did San Francisco recently, the team was myself, Mike, and Will, and then there Olivia Patrick, who if you'd know on social, he's great. And then we had Declan from our boutique. It was a great team of very different dynamic personalities. Will Brackfield, who designed the 12X. I had him standing only in front of the 12X. Says they want to come and hear you because yes, you're going to get bored and you might want to come over and talk about another model. So, but you are that model. And that's why, where you live for this particular show, because that's the star. I will sell bread and butter every day. And that's, what's going to build the brand. The sales for Belcanto and now 12X, yes, it's going to help us grow and it's going to help us make the next Belcanto. But that's for them to build. We'll sell it. But I love these personalities because that's what makes the brand special. That's the soup, the ingredients of the soup, right? |
| Andrew | I like it. So I have two final questions. I don't know if you have any more questions. They're separate but similar. First question, what's the next 12 months look like for North America for Christopher Ward? |
| Mike Pearson | Well, I've kind of described it as the Taylor Swift tour in skinny jeans and Chelsea boots as a part as opposed to tights. |
| Andrew | I cannot wait to see you in that. So, yes. |
| Mike Pearson | OK, I've done it. We're recording this the last couple of days of May. I've done twenty five events so far in the first six months of my time here. What I've tried to do is compartmentalize where we've not been. Yes, wind-ups are involved, but I've tried to go to everywhere where Christopher would have never been before. Through, you know, Georgia, the Carolinas, all over. I've been so proud of where we've gone. Oregon. Yeah, you were 100 miles north of us. I was in Oregon, and I loved it. We went in a coffee shop. I think it was Rosie's Coffee Shop. It was fantastic. And we went up to Seattle. So we've tried to hit as many. I've got a lot more places to go in the second half of the year. I have calmed it down in the summer because, uh, and I think we've talked about it, um, in the press or a couple of events, but I'm opening up, um, our first showroom here in Texas, where I live, which will be the first office. And so I think we're going to be looking to open around September, October time. Uh, don't quote me on that because you know, it is 2024 and building things suck. Um, but what I'm going to have is a home. And if this home here works, we can then grow. And so I'm going to continue this tour. I'm still working and traveling like a crazy man. My wife's incredibly special for letting me do this. I think it's the right thing to do. But that showroom will be the beacon for the brand and our growth going forward. |
| Andrew | Are you going to have the like, is it going to be a Christopher Ward museum also? Are we talking like 20 years of Christopher Ward watches on the wall? Is it going to be the whole lineup? Like what's the vision for the showroom? |
| Mike Pearson | So in Maidenhead, as I told you, we've got that very small but brilliantly worked office. They are moving to a new one in September. And it's state of the art. It's very, very much just on the train tracks where there'll be service, marketing, finance, everything you could ever imagine, but on three levels in England. |
| Andrew | Because in the United States, if you say it's on the tracks, I mean, that's not a good thing. |
| Mike Pearson | The train track. Sorry, the train track. Yeah. From London to come and buy watches. But for Texas, it'll be a it'll be a picture of the best of that in terms of design elements, textures, history, our DNA. But very much it'll be a showroom where you would have an appointment only time with us. So if you come and see us, you would book it online. You would get your full hour if you want a coffee or a cocktail. I'm sure we can accommodate you. There's no pressure to buy. But if you've never held a watch and you want to and you want to buy from us, it will be there. But the experience will be I will be there for a lot of the start of its opening. We're going to start looking for an office manager in the next few weeks. And then there'll also be a sales staff within there as well. That will be incredibly exciting for me. So new into this Christopher Ward adventure. They will be, I think, parts of the past. There will be elements of our history, but we've got to concentrate. And you've also got to think that the majority of people coming into that store in a place like North Dallas will never have seen Christopher Ward. So as nice as your watch is, there is now an evolution of it. As much as we've loved the old variations, it might confuse some people's vision of what they can buy today. And so we will keep that to a minimum, but we will celebrate it from time to time. I met a guy very recently at an event I did in Dallas, and he owns 72 Christopher Ward watches. So he will be my goat. Yes, there are not crazy. There are crazy people out there that just truly love their things. And if they find a groove, they buy big if they're available to him. He also loves soccer jerseys. So shout out to that guy over there. Gosh, I want to visit his home. He's the man. He's the man. But he's already said, you know, if you ever want to borrow some of the old watches, bring them along. We also have, and I think this is a tangent for my side, we have the best forum community. It lives on ChristopherWard.com, but we do not touch it. And there's a gentleman who runs that called Kip, and he has archived every single Christopher Ward watch on that forum. And, uh, he did an event with me in Boston recently, and he brought, he brought over a hundred watches himself. So we've got some super fans. We've got some brilliant people that have curated, cared for, and thought about the past of Christopher Ward. But this showroom will be very much a now and future and a good experience. So I'm really, really proud of what it will look like. And yeah, I can't wait to turn the key. |
| Everett | Andrew, did you? You said you had two questions. Did you ask them both? No, I just asked one. OK, well, you OK. |
| Andrew | Are you going to go? May I? What is the next 12 months look like for Christopher Ward? Because we've seen some overall. Yeah, because we've seen some like heavy, heavy punches from Christopher Ward in the last two years that has like kind of set the stage for like we have the Belcanto, we have the Twelve, we have the Valor, we have like this Dune series that's like, and the Dune series in and of itself is worthy of conversation, but it's just kind of like hiding in the background of these other big things and the Celeste and like Aventurine and like, you know, why not just do everything all at once? So what does the next year look like? for Christopher Ward at large, globally? |
| Mike Pearson | Well, that's a different question. Because if you were going to look at just the brand assortment, we will be continuing to add sizes, colors, and styles within collections that maybe there were some gaps that were missing. That's very exciting for people who, men, women, biology, big or small wrists, people used to big or small watches. We will accommodate a lot of that, which is really good to flesh out that maturation process that we've talked about. There will be a few models that will be added that will help celebrate some models from the past. There will be models added that will change the game in certain parts of our collection, which I'm very excited about this summer, which obviously I can't say. And yes, there are some plans over the next 12 months, which will change people's perception of Christopher Ward once again. York Junior is working very, very busy for it. In terms of the overall global plan, We still make everything in Switzerland. We still QC, quality control, everything in Switzerland. It all gets sent to England. Every strap's put on, final quality control check, and it's sent out. The 60-day money-to-back guarantee and the 60-month warranty is still in effect. And I think for a lot of our customers, they want to have more of the showrooms that I've talked about in Dallas. What we are doing for the entire globe as we grow, is making sure that the process is as easy as possible. Taxes and duties are all paid up front, for example, here in America, which means there's no surprises from any tax people, which sucks. So that hopefully is good, and that's only going to get better. With the boutique, though, in places like my showroom, we will also have people on that time zone that can help answer any questions from any North American customers. For places like Australia, Singapore, Uh, the Middle East that starts to turn their attention to us because of the Del Canto. Yeah. All of that's out there. But I do think that the amount of watches that we build, which we will not say how many they are, we are building enough and selling enough in the areas that we're, we're doing really well in that we cannot overstretch ourselves because we want the UK market, the U S and Canadian market to really thrive and get all the right habits. But I know that Germany's really excited for us. And I know that mainland Europe, you know, you get it right in Germany, or they can see that the process is correct. France, Spain, Italy, and it all comes from there. Scandinavia is very exciting for us. But again, they're not our language, they're not massively, massively marketed to, because we want to make sure that we're doing it right in the places that we're succeeding. How is your Middle East market? |
| Andrew | So it all starts with... I mean, I know you're a North American guy, but... No, no, no, of course. |
| Mike Pearson | I know you pay attention to it. You know, we have some fans. Lots of expats that live over there as well. So, you know, the English and the British guys and girls, they'll, they'll buy into it because it's a bit of home. But the Belcanto meant that if you are, and this is across the board, Belcanto did this for every market. It gave us that check that you have. If you have that in your collection, you've got something really unique, even if it only costs $4,000, where you could be wearing anything in, especially in the wealth of the Middle East. And, you know, some of the watches that are out there. But the Belcanto really is the driving force of how we're growing there. |
| Everett | Before we move on, I've got one more question for you, and I'm actually going to transition away from Christopher Ward for a second. Is that okay? No. Well, I'm going to do it anyway. So I've got a question for Michael Pearson, not Michael Pearson, North American director of Christopher Ward. I want to know you being now several years removed from Bremont. I want to know your thoughts on Bremont circa February, 2024, uh, with the release of the Terra Nova series and a fairly major rebranding. So as someone with a notable history with that brand, um, do you have any thoughts on, on what Bremont's doing? with those that series of releases and with the direction of that brand? |
| Mike Pearson | Well, I'll start by saying I've got some brilliant friends that are still there. I still very much care about Nick and Giles, and it's the biggest part of my watch career. I own over half a dozen of their watches. They're a big part of my collection. I wore one particular model when both my girls were born. I wore one watch on my wedding day. One model. I wore the same watch for both kids. So they know which one I was wearing when they were born. And I wore one watch on my wedding day, which I made cupcakes around our wedding cake. So yeah, that brand and those watches, those original designs mean a lot to me. And I know that they mean a lot to the Bremont collectors over the last 20 years. I have never seen, or I have not seen the new watches in the metal. From the pictures that I saw, they look fine. They do look fine, right? |
| Everett | In a vacuum. |
| Mike Pearson | Yeah, they look fine. I think there's so many people that are hating on it, but they look like nice watches, but I've never held them. Uh, you know, the 904L steel. Great. I mean, the, you know, the design of the case, all of that sort of stuff. It looks like a good watch. I don't know if it looks like a Bremont and that, that for me is the only thing I would say. And then I don't think that's a, and then I'd preface that by saying, I don't think that's a bad thing. Um, in, in the, in the overall picture of it, but I think as opposed to say Zenith a few years ago, having a whole rebrand, not working, then going back to what they did with El Primero. Vermont is not that big group. It doesn't have that 200 years of history. It doesn't have a brand DNA, which, you know, the El Primero, you know, powering Rolex, all that sort of stuff. What it did have was two gentlemen who loved cars, planes, boats, and bikes. They left a legacy for their dad and the memory of their family. And I think with them not now kind of leading that conversation, the thing that would have helped on a personal level would be transitioning that story to what is now. And that's the only thing I think they did wrong. Like I say, I don't know the watches. I haven't held them. They look fine. The branding, do your thing. If you think it has to change, it's not working before. I've been removed for a few years. |
| Everett | Yeah, that conversation's a little droll as we know. |
| Mike Pearson | So much. Yeah, so much. Yeah. But I do know that as a person who owns the brand, built the brand, cares for the story and the people from the start, that that little middle bit mattered. |
| Andrew | It's a teenage years experience right now, right? It's like really trying to like find themselves in the midst of. |
| Everett | I think it might be more like more like the 45 year old sports car years, but perhaps. Yeah. |
| Mike Pearson | You know, whichever way you look at it, though, there's a bit where it changed and it like there's a very famous English TV comedy show called Kevin and Perry is a comedian called Harry Enfield. And if you ever go on YouTube, go have a look at it when he changes, I think it's called Kevin and Perry. And he changes from a 12 year old to a 13 year old teenager. And it was like a metamorphosis turning into a monster. And it was very immediate. We all know that, but I'm not saying that's Bramont, but there is a bit of the why and the how it got there, but I'm not saying it's Kevin and Perry, but you should definitely have a look at that. It's very funny. But there is a, there's a, there's a tiny bit for the people that mattered and grew it. to the watches that they are now that kind of miss, but I look forward to seeing them. And I really do wish the brand well, because I loved I love it. And I love some of the people that are still there. |
| Everett | Yeah. Well, Andrew, do you have any other questions for for Mike before we transition here? |
| Andrew | What else that we haven't talked about? Should we have talked about that you want to tell us about? |
| Mike Pearson | You know, I think that your questions and the way that we've kind of gone back and forth through it all has been the most enjoyable chat I've had over the last six months about Christmas. Thank you. I'm a little sorry for that. Yes, I'm sorry. I've had some great chats, but I really enjoy you too. And this whiskey I'm drinking tonight is very tasty. What are you drinking? Do you know what I had? I'd run out of the good stuff. And my friend and I, if it's a holiday weekend, we always buy a cheap bottle that's really well done. And it's going to sound so cheesy and cringy. but it's proper 12, the Conor McGregor stuff. |
| Andrew | Oh God. Oh God. I can get down with that. Famous grouse. You're also a famous grouse guy. Yeah. Monkey shoulder. That's another one of mine. |
| Mike Pearson | So yeah, just a couple of glasses of this. It just does the job. I'm not an Irish whiskey guy. I like scotch and obviously in Texas I like bourbon, but just a little sipper. It's 11.38 at night right now. It's tasting pretty damn good. |
| Everett | Do you have a go-to cheap scotch? I have a go-to cheap scotch. Andrew does too. |
| Andrew | I maybe have two or three. |
| Mike Pearson | Chivas. |
| Andrew | Chivas, yeah. Chivas is a good, that's a good. |
| Mike Pearson | Does everything. |
| Everett | How you do famous grouse? |
| Mike Pearson | You're you're I can't stand that stuff. |
| Everett | Oh my gosh, that's my go to man. |
| Andrew | Is that like, is it a taste aversion thing? Like did something go wrong? Drinking? No, it might have been Yeah, it might be one of them. |
| Mike Pearson | You know, the bits where you try and steal a bit from your parents and throw a bit of apple? Yeah, that was probably mine there. But I first moved to America and I was not a whiskey guy. And I got Blantons with bourbon in Texas. And I really liked that. And then it was all Basil Hayden. And so my tastes are very varied. But back in the day with Premon, we did a Shivers limited edition watch and a limited edition case. And we got tons of it. Ended up just being fantastic. So just you got the taste for it. |
| Andrew | So yeah, Shivers is a good choice. Monkey Shoulder. If you haven't had Monkey Shoulder, give it a try. It's a blended. Yeah, it's it's like I like the blend. It's like 35 bucks. Yeah, it's cheap. It's cheap. But all of the blends that go into it per bottle are like in the 40 to 50 dollar range. Oh, yeah. And it's it's a it's like dangerously drinkable. It's like, oh, God, I'm about to be hammered. Yeah. |
| Mike Pearson | You know, I've thought of something I haven't said that I want to say. We are very much in our infancy. And even those 20 years, we're very much in our infancy of what we're doing in America. And I'm not saying this for self-publicity, but reach out to me, your listeners on Instagram, Mike Pearson six, or they can email me Michael Pearson at Christopher Ward dot com. any questions, I want people to feel like there's somebody here. And I just wanted to say that to your listeners, probably more than anyone, just because it's it is a great, great group. But I'm very, very open to that. And the events that I'll be doing are post on my social and the forum. So if there's any if any chance you want to come and see me, that's the best place to kind of see it. |
| Everett | Yeah. And we'll put yourself on in the show notes, too. |
| Mike Pearson | So thanks, mate. I appreciate it. |
| Andrew | I gotta say, when I started getting text messages from you, I was like, I've made it. This is as good as my life ever gets. |
| Mike Pearson | It's so much easier for me to do this than have a computer. |
| Everett | Well, with that, we've been going for a minute here. Probably time to transition to other things. Andrew, what do you got? |
| Andrew | I have another thing, as per usual, because I have one every week. So somebody I feel like in our circle, like yours and mine, in one of our several group chats that we are unified in, mentioned that they had watched Fallout, the new television series. Oh, I haven't talked to anyone about this, so I'm not sure. I want to say it was Mike. Maybe. Famously of CNN, who used to write for Hodinkee. This is Mike Razek, yeah. I want to say it was Mike, because he was just He just did, or was it Will who did a cross country? Uh, yeah, I don't know. One of the, one of the, I don't know. I don't, I'm not even sorry guys. I feel like it was one of you and I'm not going to go back to my text messages to verify it. So I was like, I was hitting all of the numerous streaming services that I pay for and I couldn't find anything to watch. And I got to Amazon and I saw fallout and I was like, Oh, That's good. That's going to be interesting enough. And I started it and I was watching my wife and I could like feel from the couch the distaste for it. It was like this interesting like the the gore in it is like Kill Bill meets 300. Like sort of graphic novelly but like just Tarantino enough to be like kind of amusing. And I was like, oh, this is my shit. I don't care if you're uncomfortable. We're watching this. I burned it up. So I watched like two episodes with her. She's like deuces. I'm out. I'm watching this. And I was like, perfect. I need a show to watch by myself. I burned up the whole thing. I've never played the video games. |
| Mike Pearson | No, me either. |
| Andrew | The show was fantastic. independent of the video games. It has this like Terminator kind of post-apocalyptic feel with this interesting like 1950s infusion. It is like one of the most visually and audibly intriguing shows that I've ever watched. The acting is great. You recognize a ton of people, but you don't know them. So it's not like, Oh, that's cool. cool samuel jackson is this character today uh it was so good so fallout on amazon there's season one currently there it's eight episodes i think season two is ordered it's terrific independent of the video game it's a good non-zombie post-apocalyptic world it's fascinating it's like got good intrigue and good like twists and turns. It's just like corny enough to be like funny without being silly. I loved it. I love it. Yeah. That was, it was totally my shit. |
| Mike Pearson | I gave it a 10 out of 10. I thought it was fantastic. |
| Andrew | Yeah. It was, it was great. And some of the things that show up on it, you're like, I'm laughing. And my wife is like, why is this funny to you? And I was like, cause it's funny. |
| Everett | How about appropriateness for tweens? That's my question for you. |
| Andrew | I think your kids are in the zone. |
| Everett | There's no like, like, like sex scenes or. |
| Andrew | There's a sex scene. There's a sex scene. |
| Mike Pearson | But it's not. It's quite a nasty one where those people come, the new people come into the bunker. |
| Andrew | Yeah, but it's not like a. The graphic, you might want to watch it ahead of time just to, just to like verify it, which is like, I, that's a very personal question I realized, but maybe that's something that other people might appreciate. You might want, you might want to verify that with like with your first viewing, which is why like I, the other day I, I, my, my nine year old did something that was like, Oh, that was very Ace Ventura of you. And then I, I, solicited some feedback from some other friends who were like, no, I think, I think he's in the zone. I rewatched it and I was like, no, I concur. I think we're in the zone. |
| Mike Pearson | As long as he didn't say I'm working on my mantra. |
| Andrew | That was the scene. But I don't think he's old enough to quite get it. Uh, I am looking forward to, cause I'm going to watch it with him this weekend. I am looking forward to him. talking to me with his butt. I'm like really looking forward to that experience. |
| Mike Pearson | Your gun is sticking in my hip. |
| Andrew | You watch Ace Ventura as much as I have. |
| Mike Pearson | Oh, I like it. I love a movie. I'm a movie guy. |
| Everett | Michael Pearson, did you bring another thing tonight? |
| Mike Pearson | I did and it's just before we got on the call. We're halfway through this very weird thing. My wife and I, she is very Midwestern and she loves, she loves watching probably the different things that I do. But we have Marvel geeky stuff in common. It is a bit of a thing for us. If it's a superhero, we'll watch it. And Marvel's been pretty crap the last couple of years since the Avengers Endgame series finished. All the stuff on Disney plus the majority of it's pretty bad apart from probably Vision, WandaVision and... I loved WandaVision by the way. WandaVision was good. I liked Loki. Everything else has been a bit tough. Anyway, we... Deadpool 3 is coming out. And my wife goes, well, I've never seen Deadpool 1 and 2. I'm like, but we watched all these Marvels. She never thought of it as Marvel. So we watched Deadpool 1, Deadpool 2. And she goes, well, what's this beef with Hugh Jackman? And why is Wolverine going to be in the third one? I'm like, well, Ryan Reynolds and Wolverine, through all of the X-Men, the good and the bad, the old, the new, have you never seen them? And I'd never asked her. Because Avengers and our relationship was through all of that Avengers series, those 10 years of Iron Man and so on and so forth. So we are watching, and this is my thing, we are watching all of the X-Men Logan movies, but not in the order they came out in terms of starting to, we are watching chronologically. So we're going back and forth through James McAvoy to Patrick Stewart all the way through. And we just finished, uh, Wolverine, the origin story of Wolverine. And we just were halfway through apocalypse apocalypse right now. And it's the weirdest thing. So my thing right now to ask you as watch people, watch geeks, movie geeks. Am I doing the right thing or should I have gone chronologically? |
| Andrew | You mean in release or in terms of story? I think I think chronologically in terms of story is appropriate. Yeah, me too. |
| Everett | Yeah. Given given where we land today, I think that is appropriate. |
| Mike Pearson | Yeah. OK, so then I'll turn a tangent then. I a few years ago watched Star Wars. She watched Star Wars for the first time and I did one, two, three, four, five, six. Should I have done? a new hope and then go back to the prequels. |
| Everett | Ooh. When I watched it with the kids, I watched it in terms of release order, and that felt like the right decision. But because, you know, you have meaningful conversation about that. Yeah, we did. Right. I think there's a lot of different ways to look at it. And, you know, I don't think there's a I mean, I think that's the nice thing about this, right, is if you're thinking about what's the right order to watch them in, You're already... You're too far. |
| Mike Pearson | You're already deep. Oh, I'm already into this thing. I want to hear your opinion. |
| Everett | Yeah. You know, I watched in release order and I think that makes sense for a lot of reasons, right? You get some of the... Because the prequels are actually... I did sequential. Okay, fine. The prequels, though, are not actually prequels in terms of the story because they build on the story of the first. And so that's why I would make that decision. |
| Mike Pearson | But I agree with you now because you've got you've got solo and you've got all the different TV shows. Yeah, excellent. So there's there's so much more in that conversation more than just six movies. I did the movie sequentially. I am very impressed with how much I'm enjoying the original X-Men. So they did a good job. Go and do X-Men lead up to Deadpool three and you'll have a good time. |
| Everett | Love it. |
| Andrew | That's a good idea. Because maybe we'd go see Deadpool 3. My kids are not ready. |
| Mike Pearson | We've got one month. We have a month to go. Yeah, you can bring your teenagers. There's lots of weird things to ask. |
| Everett | We watched Deadpool with the kids recently, and it was one of those things Kim said, do you think that's okay? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, it was like halfway through and I was like, I'm sorry, babe. I don't know. I've made a mistake. Don't ask me these questions, right? |
| Andrew | I watched I've watched Jurassic Park now a dozen times with my oldest and I showed it to him way too early, but it was like consistent with when I saw it for the first time. And like I realized in that moment, I was like, oh, I need to reevaluate that there are like things have changed a little bit because I also watched Saving Private Ryan at like eight and Gladiator at about the same age. And that's just like, yeah, that's a little bit of a miss. |
| Mike Pearson | Can I can I finish on one different point that you said at the start when you were doing your introduction, please, for your war movies. Watch Band of Brothers. Oh, I watch that twice a year. Any any movie by Saving Private Ryan, the thing to really get into the meat is Band of Brothers. That is where I would go next. |
| Andrew | And you've watched the Pacific, I assume. And Generation Kill. |
| Everett | I would posit the Generation Kill is better than Band of Brothers, but that's maybe a different conversation altogether. |
| Mike Pearson | But he's got more emotion. I think there's more heart in Band of Brothers. |
| Andrew | Way more. Generation Kill is contemporaneous, but it doesn't have the same character arc and development. Like they didn't, the writing just wasn't quite as good. |
| Mike Pearson | There wasn't enough British actors as well. You know, that's an important thing. |
| Everett | Generation Kill is the most realistic military movie series, whatever, ever made. Okay. Uh, I've got another, I've got another thing. It's a little obscure you guys. I'm sorry. So this is going to be one of the more obscure other things because it's not going to be what it sounds like. But I started a new podcast about a month ago. |
| Andrew | You're going to talk about this again. |
| Everett | And, and going through, did I already talk about this? No. Okay. You've talked about it, but not as another thing. Going through the motions of this, podcast has been really incredible. So it's not a consumer podcast. Rather, it's a professional podcast. So I, with an attorney friend of mine, have started a podcast that is dedicated to providing continuing legal education credit for Oregon attorneys, right? That's a pretty niche. It's a pretty niche thing. So I don't recommend you look at it. I probably won't even say the name here. But the point of this conversation, and the point of this being my other thing, is it has been such an enlightening experience. So doing this thing, although it seems like every person I know has either done or is doing a podcast, in some ways it's this kind of rare thing, right? And for us now, Andrew, having done this some 290 times, we've gained a lot of skills, right? We've gained very tangible objective skills, you know, in terms of editing and publishing and recording and the software challenges and, you know. Never mind the soft skills. Hosting. Talking. That's right. That's right. So there's this incredible value to what we've gained just by having way of done so many reps, right? Oh yeah. And so I think, I think few people start a podcast and even fewer people start another podcast. Um, and so when this, everyone starts a podcast, a few people continue. |
| Mike Pearson | I just go on a lot of watch podcasts. |
| Everett | When this idea came up and we started thinking about, okay, how would we do it? And you know, the guy I'm doing this with isn't a podcaster and he was really worried about the technical stuff. And I was like, do not worry. Like we got that part. Um, but then thinking about, you know, How would we do it? Here's my other thing. If you have a skill or a set of skills, and everybody does, right? Everybody has a set of skills. I think it is really what's blown my mind about this process is how rewarding it's been to take this set of skills that we've gained, right? We've gained this set of skills and to pivot or to leverage those set of skills into doing something really entirely different. You know, podcasting is a thing that is relatively new. There are perhaps some similarities to broadcasting or whatever, but it's this really like hobby level skills that are not transferable to anything else or so you think. It's been so rewarding. This is my other thing. It's been so rewarding to take this set of obscure, kind of bizarre skills I have and convert them into something that is, that has value in a way that was surprising. We have, because of the abilities that we had to do our content really well, but also to do a podcast really well. I mean, we've exceeded so many of our expectations and it's just been one of the most tremendous experiences of my life. You know, Mike, perhaps you've got similar experiences having transitioned from really huge Swiss watch brand to now Christopher Ward and maybe that feels similar. But I've just been blown away by how rewarding this experience has been. And I actually thought, oh, this is just going to be another thing I have to do. And it's just not been. It's just been tremendous. So I think my other thing for the week is do something. Take take the skills you have and the abilities you have and do something like I'm not getting any more money. I'm not getting paid more, but I'm doing something that's fun and maybe even, dare I say, important. And it's been like one of the most rewarding professional things I've ever done. It's been really cool. |
| Mike Pearson | I went, I was asked on the fly, my next door neighbor is a high school coach for the football team. You know, Texas football is big. |
| Andrew | That's the most famous person in Dallas. |
| Mike Pearson | Yeah. But I went and spoke to a hundred kids. about career paths and how to use your brand and how to understand that you're important as an individual to a team and talk about my career path. It was brilliant. You know, you could smell the Axe body spray in the room and no one was really caring at the beginning, but by the end of it, it was brilliant. And, you know, you go to the different drive-throughs around here with my kids and they all work in there and they all said, thanks. So I agree, do something because I'd never done that. I've never done that before, but it was beautiful. |
| Everett | Just do something. You've got these bills. Everybody who's listening to this show and even people that aren't, uh, maybe, uh, have some sort of talent or ability. And it's like, I'm not to say at 42 or whatever it is, I, however old I am now, this is the first time I've done anything like this, but it's the first time in a long time I can remember being like, I'm really good at this. And this is really rewarding to do something that people are going to enjoy and get value from. |
| Andrew | I one time took a police car to a preschool and turned the lights on so the preschoolers could come look at it. |
| Mike Pearson | All right. |
| Everett | Yeah. Michael Pearson, North American director for Christopher Ward. Thank you so much for joining us. Anything you want to say? Any parting shots or thoughts? |
| Mike Pearson | No, just thank you very much for having me on again. And I'm very proud to to be on your show and congratulations on all you've done. And I hope you have a lot more continued success. |
| Everett | Hey, thank you so much for joining us. It's been really fun. And thank you at home for joining us for this hour and a half of the 40 in 20 podcast. Why don't you do me a favor, go to our website, WatchClicker.com. That's where we post every single episode of this show, and also articles, reviews, other really neat content. If you want to check us out on social media, you can do that at watch clicker on Instagram or at 40 and 20 underscore watch clicker. If you want to support us and really we hope you do because it's not free to keep this thing going. We get all our support at patreon.com slash 40 and 20. That's how we keep the wheels on this wagon of turning. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life and other things we like. Bye bye. |