Christopher Ward Shows All (288)

Published on Wed, 01 May 2024 18:52:46 -0700

Synopsis

Andrew and Everett, the hosts of the podcast 40 in 20, discuss various new and interesting watch releases from brands like Sarpaneva, Depencel, Omega, Christopher Ward, Norcain, and IFL Watches. They share their thoughts, opinions, and insights on these watches, covering aspects such as design, materials, movements, and value for money. The conversation also touches on some personal topics like Everett's recent lacrosse coaching experience and Andrew's newly modded Benchmade Griptilian knife.

They end the episode by briefly mentioning some other watch-related news and plugging their website, social media, and Patreon for listeners to check out and support their show.

Transcript

Speaker
Everett Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Andrew You know, I'm great. Always. Just super duper great. I'm golfing at Bandon Dunes on Thursday, which is exciting. It's supposed to rain a little bit. It'll be fine.
Everett It always rains there, unlike Autzen Stadium.
Andrew Oftentimes. That's awesome. I'm pumped about that. I recorded a different podcast this week. I recorded a different show this week and also produced that one live, but I used our old board. So we, 40 and 20 Watch Clicker, sold our old recording equipment to this. You. To me, to this new show. And so I used that board, but I used it for the first time in what? Two years? Yeah. Maybe longer? I'm thinking a year.
Everett I lived here when we got it, so.
Andrew Yeah. I was thinking maybe a year, but I guess it could be as much as two. Anyway, long story short, I was reminded that there were some things that were different about this one. So one of those was the fade in and out of the intro and outro music. It's just, I have to be a little heavier with this one and I've got to be a little bit more gentle with that one. So we recorded it and I realized and I was like, if I can, I'll leave it, but I'm going to have to. Do some tweaking. Yeah, get my muscle memory right. That was fun though. That podcast will start to publish tomorrow and it's a totally, wholly different thing and I'm kind of pumped about it. It's exciting. It's about.
Everett Clocks.
Andrew That's right. Yeah. Wall clocks. Yeah. Yeah. Precisely. It is. It's also called 40 by 20 or called 40 by 20. It's a similar thing, but it's centimeters instead of millimeters. Yeah. It's fine. No, it's actually like a legal education podcast. So and it's specific to Oregon law.
Everett Very much unlike serial. So if you are thinking it's going to be a true crime thriller, with the sultry voice of Everett guiding your way through the whodunit.
Andrew It's not that. It's not that yet. No, you know, we're, we're hoping that it's the kind of thing that like some people who aren't lawyers and required to take CLEs might listen to it, but most likely the vast majority of the people who listen to this will be lawyers grinding their CLE credits. Oregon lawyers grinding their CLE credits, but it was fun. It's a totally different thing. It's yeah, I was, I had a lot of fun with that, but I had to get used to the old equipment again.
Everett Oh, and you took the old microphones too. I did. Yep. I'm glad. Uh, cause I just noticed that they weren't there. And, uh, Calvin's been in this way where he comes in here and removes things and hides them. Cause that's a fun game. The interesting thing is that for a four year old, It's pretty impressive that when you say, hey bud, did you hide this thing? Yep. Where'd you hide it? And he'll tell you exactly where it is. And he hides a lot of things. And he remembers where he puts all of said things. They're not just lost. It's like, oh no, it's, it's here. How did you even get there to hide that? Like where, where are all my pens? Crackers in the cracker cabinet. Oh, okay. Downstairs. Where's all the paper? Bathroom cabinet with the other pens. Like, you fucking asshole. Like, quit hiding my things. This morning he was in there in under their sink. They've got a pretty wide cabinet, you know, as most sinks do, but it's big enough for he'll crawl in there with all the paper out of the printer and a pen that he has found and just color. Just, just draw things. Yeah. Just draw things in the, in the Cupboard. When he thinks we can't see him.
Andrew Andrew, I didn't get a chance to ask, how are you?
Everett I'm also good. I'm, uh, I haven't done youth sports, uh, in a while. So we're, we're doing two practices a week and then double headers on Saturday, which is like really tiring. Yeah. Uh, and there's an hour break in our previous weeks. There's been an hour break between games, which has been terrific. We run down to Safeway, we get him a deli sandwich. We get a little bit of a reset. This weekend we have back to back games. How long are your games?
Andrew An hour? Full hour.
Everett Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's a constant moving sport. Uh, and because they're not good at it, it's all like transition. There's never like, Oh, now we're on offense and they work the offense a little bit. It's like up and down and up and down and up and down and up. And like I get sweaty cause at this age they have a coach on the field also kind of like helping manage the chaos. Like I get tired and sweaty from running the field with them. I'm like, this isn't.
Andrew Do you get a carry a stick?
Everett No. Yeah. No, I, I do push them sometimes. Um, gently. Well, sometimes I need pushed. Like move, go. Yeah. Mush. Um, but it's, it's nice, you know, at moat for the most part, the third and fourth graders, like if I'm not paying attention and they crash into me, it Absolutely no coordination and no idea what to do with it. Perfect. Yeah. So it's like even they crash into me like, Oh my God, I fell down. I'm like, well, you know, that's going to happen. Um, yeah. So yeah, but it's, it's, uh, it's been super fun. I've enjoyed it thoroughly. Uh, but it's tiring. I lost a whole, whole weekend day.
Andrew Yeah. You, you, you, you know, we've done a couple of baseball double headers and the, the, the baseball games are longer, right? Six innings or really two and a half hours is kind of where they cap. But if you get to like, Stretch cans. It's like, yeah, that's like an eight hour day. I mean, it's literally an eight hour day. Uh, fortunately I'm not doing anything. I'm just sitting there in the sun or the rain. It has been the, it has been cold. I'm also, I think it's, I've lost a little bit of weight and so I've been abnormally cold this spring. You know, it'll be 50 degrees and windy, which, It is not warm, but not particularly cold, and I am freezing, so I don't know, I'm gonna have to figure that out, but it's gonna be warm very soon, so I'm not gonna spend too much time worrying about it.
Everett It's coming, so two more weeks of it, and then we're gonna miss the third week, because we're going camping.
Andrew Do you have a, you have got like an assistant coach, or?
Everett There's, I think I'm the assistant coach. Oh, I see. In that he has been coaching for much longer, Um, but is a lot less technically aware of the sport.
Andrew You are the assistant coach with sort of, I'm like the special skills coach.
Everett I'm the quarterback coach. We'll call it. You're the COO. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, it's been a lot of fun and I have a, I was glad that I didn't get thrust immediately into like, Hey, here's the app. And now you have to communicate with all the parents and families and do all that kind of stuff. I'm like, ah, that's not really my bag, man. Um, But I will definitely show up and coach and... You're front of the house.
Andrew That's it. You're the front of the house guy. Well, unfortunately, we're not here to talk about lacrosse or coaching or even CLE podcasts. Rather, we're here to talk about watches. And we got a good episode. This was fun for me because it had been like a solid, I don't know, 11 days, 10 days since we had thought about the podcast.
Everett Yeah. Cause we did a weird quick turn. Cause I was in Sun River last week, which was beautiful. And I've kicked myself every single day for not bringing golf clubs. Oh man. I knew it. You guys. Every single day for not bringing golf clubs. Uh, cause there was definitely a day where I should have golfed instead of attending sessions.
Andrew Or even if you get in nine holes at anybody, I never go to a resort town and don't take a swimsuit or don't take golf clubs.
Everett I didn't take a swimsuit on purpose because I had no interest in being in a pool or hot tub with a statewide work conference.
Andrew You still always bring both of those things. Even if you know 100% you're not going to golf, you know 100% you're not going to swim, you still take them.
Everett I brought neither. You fucked up. I did neither. I did fuck up. I should have golfed. Because the greens were looking good. The first day I was there, they had just sanded all of them. And then the second day I was there, there were people playing. First day, no golfers, but second day, bunch of golfers.
Andrew If you don't know, Sun River is sort of a desert, hot desert resort town in Oregon, central Oregon. Bend is the closest city that... Yeah, it's like 20 miles outside of Bend. And they've got, you know, Fantastic golf. They've got a Jack Nicklaus designed course. I think there's probably, you know, I don't know, 10 golf courses in a 10 mile or 15 mile radius.
Everett Yeah. It's either like resort homes or golf courses.
Andrew And they're all pretty nice. They're all really nice golf courses. So yeah, it's a great place.
Everett You could probably golf your way from Bend to Sun River. Right. Like in a golf cart, just connect courses together.
Andrew Watches. Oh, we should get there. Watches. We're here to talk about watches. And I was just saying it was, it was nice to have that little bit of time away from the show. Cause then when it was time to sort of start preparing material, I was like, yeah, there are a lot of watches that I want to talk about.
Everett Yeah. We have like the, the tail end of watches and wonders. We have WPHH and we got some, like just some kind of stuff happening. There wasn't a good, there wasn't a long cool down from these big shows.
Andrew Yeah, that's right. That's right. I do feel like sometimes we've got, it's like, well, if we get to it, we can talk about this. But this week it was like, no, these are the watches I want to talk about. And I want to talk about all of them.
Everett I had to pare down some things when I saw how many watches you sent me, which was unusual. You usually do not send that many.
Andrew Um, that don't overlap. That's right. I usually send second.
Everett I only, but even when you send a second, we didn't, we didn't have much overlap. We only had like maybe three things that I paired down because of overlap and then another like four or five that I was like, there's just, that's too much shit. We're not, we're not going to get to all of this. Nevermind those extra things. Why don't you get us started? Let's, okay. So first I want to talk about something interesting. Um, I don't particularly care for the watch. I don't really know much about the brand. Um, the Sarpaneva dragon skin, the first dial of its kind and What interested me is that this EDC fella who likes dragon skin use in knives pitched to Sarpaneva. Hey, dude, trying to dial. So dragon skin isn't this really beautiful, colorful material that's very similar to Damascus. It seems that it's like a uh, fusion of colored ball bearings that are then, um, forged down into shape. So you get these very Damascus esque, but it's actually dragon skin, uh, geometric patterns on them that are irregular, but kind of like they fit together really nicely. Uh, and that's what caught my eye is this dragon skin dial. I, the rest of the watch it's, you know, it's, um, 42mm case, 46 lug to lug, modified chronoed P1003 movement inside, 100m of water resistance, really like super futuristic kind of case design and geometry on it. I don't super even know how to describe this device. beveling in the bracelet. I'm not super into the watch. It's $21,000, $19,000. Yeah, this is an expensive watch. Yeah, so $21,000. It's going to be a limited edition because it's a small brand, small batch, but this dial is gorgeous. The way the hands are integrated into it, the markers are the same kind of shape as the balance on the second hand. So there's like this interesting capturing of, um, like a coalescence of design language in it with this very random cross section of dragon scale. This is, this is cool. It's really lovely. And that's what got me excited. I saw it. I was like, that's fucking cool. And it's the first time this, this methodology is being applied to dials in a watch.
Andrew Yeah. It's a really interesting, it's really, there's a couple of interesting things about this. So, so one, Dragon skin is a material that gets used for knife scales. If you're into knives at all, you may have heard of the company Grimsmo Knives. That's a company out of Ontario. They started a few years back. The owner actually started a YouTube channel trying to figure out how to make knives in his garage, and he quickly bought a small hobby CNC machine, and now he's turned this company, Grimmsmo Knives, into a relatively well-known company that makes quite a few knives out of Ontario and they've got a full-on shop and they make, you know, they sell the Grimmsmo Norseman or the Grimmsmo Rask are both, you know, products that sell. You can't buy one. You can get in a lottery to get it from the company. Resale secondary prices are typically over retail price. I mean, this is a really cool company that is making in-demand products. And Grimsmall actually is one of the companies that is leading the way in making this material. They actually made the dials for this. Grimsmall made the dials, which is neat. It's a cool crossover.
Everett And I don't know anything about Serponeva.
Andrew No, I've never even heard of them. I've never heard of them before you shot me this link.
Everett I'm intrigued by... I like actually new shit. like doing the basics, but in a new way and applying new technology, new materials to a dial is something that's really cool and exciting to me.
Andrew And I don't know. So Justin Maxine Frost is a watch journalist. He writes for sharp magazine, which I think is a Canadian. Uh, this is someone who I've, I've seen pictures of him. I know, I know he's, in the world, but I don't know a lot about him, but this was actually his idea, right? He pitched this idea to SharpenEva. There's a lot of cool connections here. This is a really terrific.
Everett Yeah, it's like a true enthusiast of like just cool shit watch.
Andrew It's crazy to me that it's a $21,000 watch, but it looks to me like maybe there's some justification in terms of materials and the quality of the watch. The dial on this thing is fucking nuts. And not just the shark skin, like the markers are like this ring that sits on top of the dial and it's connected to the dial with screws. There's some craftsmanship here, obviously. I don't know enough about the watch to say, yes, this is something that I want. Well, I'm not gonna buy this, just to be clear.
Everett I don't even want this. I want more of this.
Andrew Yeah, this is really cool. What you got? got a watch I'd like to talk about. The Depencel, I think I'm saying that right. Deponsel? Rapunzel?
Everett Yeah, I think Rapunzel is probably more accurate.
Andrew I'm going to say Depencel, and if you know that I'm wrong and every time I say that you just are screaming, you can send me a message. I'll try not to say it very much. Deponsel. They did a collaboration with Worn and Wound on a chronograph. There's a few interesting things about this. So one, it is a War and Won collaboration, and I think it's a neat one. That's interesting in and of itself. The second is, it is a single sub-register chronograph, which means they've gotten rid of the running seconds. Which, when I first saw that, I was like, well, I don't like that. But then the more I thought about it, I was like, you know, I'm okay with that. Do you need running seconds on a chronograph? So it makes for some real, it makes for a fun dial. Oftentimes, yeah. Okay, so that's it. I'll just talk about, we'll just say that.
Everett They've gotten rid of the running seconds. Depance recently, but I don't remember what the release was. Depance? Yeah.
Andrew I don't remember either. The final thing that I find really interesting about this is they're powered by a vintage Valjoux 92 movement, which is an older hand wound Valjoux movement, which I think fifties or sixties, And they're only making 20 of these and they're, they're probably all they could find. They're not crazy. So I mean this, they're still available today, $3,900, which is a lot, but for what you're getting here, I think it's totally for a vintage value. I think that's in the zone. Yeah. Yeah. And, and they're sexy, man. You just have, I mean, there's a lot of neat stuff going on here. So, so, um, Hand-wound Valjoux 92. It is a 39 millimeter case, 13 millimeters thick, 46 millimeters lug to lug, terrific single register at three o'clock. But you've also got this like sector dial with a pulsometer in the middle. So you get this, the typical, uh, tachometer on the outside because this is a racing watch. Colors are great. It's like this mint green with black on the outside, black on the inside. Bright red hands, like your timer hands. The second hand, the chronograph second hand is sort of like a spear that extends quite a ways into the counterbalance is another, is a second spear end that goes pretty long. So it's not symmetrical. But it's got like a bit of weight, visual weight on both sides.
Everett It looks like the balance end is used for the pulsometer, because it runs to the pulsometer ring.
Andrew That is exactly what that is. And I did not realize that until you said that just now. And the long end runs the tach. Exactly what that is. Yeah.
Everett This is cool, man. This is well executed.
Andrew As soon as I saw this, because I saw it and I was like, this doesn't make any sense. And then you look at it and it's like, oh, not only does it make sense, it's really elegantly put together.
Everett And functionally. It's, it's one of those good collisions of design and functionality in a, in a really lovely union.
Andrew And the green is like this, like not obnoxiously mint green. It's kind of sea foamy. Yeah. But not, I, I, I'm not always a huge fan of this color, but they've done it really well here.
Everett The counterbalance of the black and the way they integrated that green into the into your tracks of your pulsometer and your tachometer really pull it all together. And the red on the markers. Yeah, this is good. This is really great use of color.
Andrew The case is interesting. It's a pretty straightforward kind of short lugged case. It's got a applied plaque on the on the nine o'clock side, which it just says a Valjoux 92.
Everett Yeah.
Andrew That's fine. That's that's sort of a thing that folks are doing with sort of upper middle end horology these days. I can do without. Beautiful, beautiful watch. I find this to be a really compelling, pretty limited edition watch.
Everett And you can still buy it.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah. They're available. Cool. I think because of the price, because of what you're getting for the price, I think that not everybody's going to be copping on these, but I actually, yeah, I'm not going to buy it because that's more money than I want to spend on a watch right now. But I think it's really terrific.
Everett I want to talk about something interesting.
Andrew I hope all of the things we talk about today are interesting.
Everett No, we're going to talk about some boring stuff. I want to talk about something fun, interesting. There is a Frank Mueller cigarette lighter watch, which according to Mr. Jamie Weiss, is the wackiest creation of Geneva Watch Week. And you know, I think I fully agree. So this is, um, I have to find the name of it. Uh, so Frank Muller teamed up with the luxury goods manufacturer ST Dupont, which are one of the top high end cigarette lighter makers in the world and great goldsmiths. So this is a fully functional, Watch fully functional lighter in this really fun Alice in Wonderland kind of color font dial scheme on one side of the lighter with an open work skeleton movement on the back side of the lighter. The integration of these two mainstays in in life in this kind of design era is so cool. Um, prices on request, which means you can't afford it. I can't afford it. I would love to see one of these in person because the fonts on this, on the dial are fantastical. It says color dreams on the dial. The, decoration of the movement on the opposite side of the lighter is equally colorful and fun. A really well integrated crown that's recessed fully into the body of the lighter. So this isn't like a, this is a novelty, right? Don't, don't mistake this here, but it's a really functional novelty. If, if you had the cash to throw around and be wildly irresponsible and reckless, this could be both a watch and a lighter for you.
Andrew You know, Frank Muller watches are not, they're certainly not what we'd call affordable. But oftentimes they're in the realm of, these things are, they go from anywhere from that's a big chunk of change to absurd. But by and large, Frank Muller isn't making. Frank. Frank Muller isn't making, I mean, a lot of Frank, Frank. I can't. I can't, Andrew. I'm sorry. A lot of Franck Muller watches are in the realm of doable. And so this, if I had to guess, I'm going to say this is probably a $20,000 to $25,000 lighter, if that's your thing. It's interesting to me, the collision. This is a perfectly Franck Muller watch, right? You know, or I guess. Thing.
Everett Thing. You know. It's a multi-tool is what it is.
Andrew Sort of, you know, a bit of like the Geneve. I'm just saying. Automatic. It makes your Zippo look like trash. It does. And then you have this, you really have a really elegant collision of these two worlds. The lighter, the DuPont lighter has a hobnail case, which is exactly what you'd expect from that. And then you got to have this beautiful guilloche dial. This thing's terrific.
Everett Yeah, this is, this is so weird, but it's super fun. And this is the kind of like fun novelty stuff that, that I like. Cause it's silly. There's nothing about this as taking itself seriously.
Andrew Yeah. I mean, if you're a cigarette smoker or even just a person who really wants to have a coolish shit lighter,
Everett I just, I really hope to see this in a music video.
Andrew Can we say that this is the coolest lighter we've ever talked about on the show without any reservations? Yeah, without any. There you have it. We've done it. We've peaked. Details about the watch lighter, you don't need them.
Everett Nope. Don't worry about it. Cause I don't know what, it's a lighter.
Andrew Andrew, have you heard of this Amida Digitrend?
Everett Uh, yes.
Andrew Okay. So there is a 1970s, uh, horizontal display watch that, that I, I'd never heard of, uh, similar to Gerard Perregaux Casquette or Bolivar Computron.
Everett Uh, this is... Or the Hamilton.
Andrew What's the... Is that a horizontal reader?
Everett What's the angle reader?
Andrew Yeah, well, this is like that, right? This is a watch from the 70s. Amida was one of the companies that sort of was in the mix as this technology became. And by horizontal reader, I mean, think, so MB&F has specifically referenced this watch in their work. But with that said, it's not something that I was really aware of. Anyway, it's back. It's back. what was formerly a quartz watch, now an automatic watch. And I think this thing is pretty cool. So it displays the time with a couple of wheels. So you've got a jumping hour and dragging minute wheel that actually display vertically on a mirror. So they're flat and then, and then they get projected on a mirror, but a reflective surface through a mirror into a prism so that they display the appropriate, the appropriate hour and minutes horizontally. So as you view this thing with your wrist turned sideways, you can see the display horizontally, but it's kind of twisty as you might expect being displayed through a prism.
Everett Well, cause it's also, it's meant to look like the digital version of itself. This is weird.
Andrew This is really fucking weird. It's weird and cool. And there's a couple of things going on here that I was like, well, this is really neat. So, so first it is aesthetically, aesthetically, I would say really pretty true to the original having looked at pictures of both. Um, but It's an automatic movement. So this was a quartz movement, or this was a quartz watch, I believe. But now this is an automatic watch. It's kind of a big boy.
Everett Oh, wait, no.
Andrew So the originals... Oh, they were hand-wound. Hand-wound manuals. Okay. But this thing is run with a Soprod Newton, the PO-92, which is a cool if not particularly crazy watch, but we've got like fantastic finishing, Geneva striping, customized openworked rotor, and this jumping hour dragging minute display with an in-house design module comprised of only I guess nine components. Doubling as both a plate and and actually holding the Movement together as the casing ring And everything's printed in negative or in Mirror reverse image so that when it displays through the mirror and gets pulled by the prism it displays the way you're supposed to There's a lot going on here, and it's really cool comes on a strap or a bracelet. Alcantara is the strap and it actually looks really good. These were pre-ordered this week and I think you can still get them at $2,900.
Everett I did not realize that these were mechanical watches masquerading as quartz watches.
Andrew Yeah, it's a mechanical. Yeah, right. No, the originals. Yeah, I didn't realize until we're talking about either. I thought it was a quartz. Yeah, mechanical.
Everett But trying to match the cool shit courts of the time.
Andrew Yeah. Interesting. And also Amita didn't survive the courts crisis. They were a victim of the courts crisis. It's, it's called the DigiTrend.
Everett It's called the DigiTrend.
Andrew Well, it is a digital watch. You know, we've talked, we talked about this early, early, early, but digital doesn't mean courts. Digital is just the way the display shows up.
Everett Yeah.
Andrew This is pretty terrific.
Everett This is cool. And I think for being a zombie, this, I think this is a decent price for this.
Andrew So the three guys came together, Clement Meunier, uh, who's sort of a, a watch aficionado, but also the founder of Coppola and Depencel. Uh, Bruno Herbe, who is a, a movement engineer. Um, and Matthew Allegre, who is a watch designer, who's done a lot of sort of back-end watch design work. Sort of like a low-key dream team of folks came together to make this happen. I think it's terrific. It's a big amount of money for a novelty watch, but this is pretty cool. I mean, Is this as good as an MBF, MBNF? No, of course not. But you're getting really good design here, even if it's someone else's design. But you're also getting a lot of horology, right?
Everett Yeah, you're getting some really cool shit.
Andrew The engineering on this thing is pretty terrific. And it's really good looking. I would wear this. Oh, I'd wear the shit out of this. Of all of the watches that we've seen come out in the last six, seven years that have done something similar, this is the only one of those. All of the like Hamilton, Pulsar stuff, all of the, you know, this is the only one in that whole entire range of really novelty, niche throwback stuff. This is the first one I've seen that I'm like, I'd fucking wear that.
Everett I would not wear the original bracelet though. The original bracelet looks awful.
Andrew I mean, it looks like a product of its time.
Everett It's a three inch long end link. Yeah. It's a bracelet, like, like, like an arm ring bracelet.
Andrew You know, and for being a bracelet guy, the bracelet on this watch isn't doing it for me. I'd take this on the Alcantara.
Everett I have some concerns about the bracelet on this.
Andrew That's a single link. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's fine. It's fine. Whatever. I'd take this on the Alcantara though. I think so too. Anyway, I just, I, I don't know anything about this, but I was like, shit, this is neat.
Everett What's next Andrew? Next up for me, uh, and this is, this is maybe I'm maybe imposing a question. So Omega this week launched a whole bunch of new 38 millimeter Speedmasters and I was looking through the catalog of it and I found myself really kind of bummed out. I so they they've released a moonshine gold, a Sedona gold or a Sedna gold, uh, some new color variations, a bunch of, uh, diamond crusted bezels. And I just feel like this is a big miss for me. I don't, I, they're obviously beautiful, right? Cause you know, 20 carats a diamond in the bezel of your watch. is a flex. I just don't think the Speedmaster is the platform for this. I feel like Omega has so many better vehicles to be doing this kind of bling to that this is a kind of a miss for me. I love the 38mm Speedmaster. I really love it. Unfortunately, I've recently learned that I love the full-size Speedmaster, which sucks because I really love it. Um, but I, I was, I had higher hopes when I, when I read this headline, I was like, Ooh, what do we got? And I was like, Oh, huh. Strange miss for me, which is unusual. Cause I don't, I don't usually see Omega releases and get bummed out. What are your thoughts? You're like holding it back.
Andrew Well, I mean, we talked about, we talked about the, I'm blanking on the name, but the Pulsometer, that sort of vintage, um, that vintage chronograph dial that they stuffed into a speedy case a couple of weeks ago. And I opined at the time, like, I think this is a bit of a, so the Paris one, a mismatch. Yes. The Olympics one, as much as I love that watch. And I think it's a really cool watch. I thought, well, it's a bit of a mismatch. Give me a better, give me a more elegant case for this really elegant dial. I don't know that I feel exactly the same way about these, but this, this is a little weird. It's weird, right? Diamond clad bezels. I'm, you know, whatever. Okay, that's fine. There's something interesting going on with the movement of these. So these are a 7750. that's been, they're calling this the, what, the caliber 3,330, 3330. Yeah, the 3330. Which is a ETA Valjoux 7750 upgraded with a column wheel and a coaxial escapement. So I think that means it's going to be about 35 millimeters thick on average. On a 38 millimeter,
Everett case, I mean.
Andrew But maybe it's cool. It's going to be a cube. It's going to be a cube. Maybe that's cool. I don't know. I actually couldn't find a thickness. Oh, 14.7, which, all right, that's fine. I don't know. Yeah, I don't get it.
Everett This isn't for me. It's just a weird release. I mean, if you want to bling something, you know, go Aqua Terra. And these are also crazy expensive, which is maybe the other part of it. Like, it's a miss because it's just not for me.
Andrew Yeah, with the diamonds, you're starting at like $29,000 on steel, $56,000 for gold on leather, and $77,000. Yeah. That's crazy. No, that's not crazy. Fuck. I'm sure that's fine.
Everett No, that's gold money. That's precious metal. I just, I think, I don't know what Omega's doing with the Speedmaster platform right now. And I'm kind of, I'm I'm kind of confused by it. They're doing some weird stuff with the Speedmaster and they have other things in the catalog that this could land, like this and Aqua Terra with this. Fucking great. All about it.
Andrew You know, Andrew, I've always said more is more. So I'm fine with this in that respect. I don't understand the watch, but that doesn't matter because... They're not selling to me.
Everett I think they're, I think they're trying to attract women to the Speedmaster.
Andrew It's possible. I think they've done this in the past.
Everett So yeah, it's not super new. They have new colorways out right now.
Andrew Yeah, I don't think, yeah, that's right. The platform's not new. It's just, yeah, it does, this does feel a little cheap to me.
Everett Yeah, it's a strange play because they have so many other things in their catalog they can be doing this with.
Andrew More is more.
Everett I'm fine with it. The gold is really lovely.
Andrew Yeah, that moonshine with the burgundy is a pretty color combo. I don't get the diamond bezel, actually.
Everett No, it's a big miss for me. It's like you totally remove the value of your Speedmaster.
Andrew Whatever. It's fine. It's weird. It's weird. Can we talk for just a second about Christopher Ward? We really need to talk about Christopher I don't know if we need to. This watch, okay, so Christopher Ward dropped a watch this week. It's the 12, it's the newest version of the 12. It's the 12X. This is a pretty niche product. This is a pretty niche product, but there's some interesting things about it. So first is that this is the SH21 movement, but it's been, like skeletonized to the nth degree. And, and in doing so they've taken off a lot of material, both it, so the SH-21 Christopher Ward's in-house, um, and, and this movement has a, uh, like a twin barrel or a two barrel, uh, power, you know, What's, why can't I talk?
Everett I'm not sure. I'm, I'm kind of smitten by these.
Andrew So you can see they've, they've exposed both barrels so you can see the springs unwinding from the top. When you look down at this, you can see, you can see everything.
Everett It's the best power reserve indicator that's ever been made.
Andrew I don't know. You'd have to figure out how to read it, but yes, perhaps. Um, This thing is absolutely stunning. I say this as a guy that doesn't like skeletonized movements, generally speaking, and really as a guy who probably wouldn't buy this because skeleton movements aren't my thing. This thing is gorgeous. A few decisions. So one, grade two titanium on the mid case for probably, I'm guessing, polishing purposes. Grade 5 on the bezel and the case back, which is interesting. You know, you think oftentimes that might make sense. Go with a harder titanium in the areas that are most likely to take contact. The high traffic areas? With that said, the case back's always against your wrist. That's not getting whacked.
Everett But if you get abrasive material between your wrist and your watch?
Andrew Sure. But also, the bezel on these things is so, like, tucked away. It's not even the most likely thing. I don't know. It's interesting. I imagine... Yeah, the case is getting it on this. That this has more to do with polishing and finishing than it does anything else, that decision. But that's a weird decision. These things are pretty cool. What are they coming in at? Thirty... No, no. 43, 35. Uh, yeah.
Everett Uh, I'm seeing 48, 65 for the 40 millimeter case. And it comes in two sizes. We have a 36 and a 40. I don't, I don't know if I'm super jacked about the Christopher Ward stamp on the bracelet.
Andrew Oh, okay. So here, here's the other thing. And this is really important. This is, Maybe the most important thing that's happened in affordable watches in a while, this has got the same butterfly clasp that appears on the 12, or that's not true, it's a different butterfly clasp. And what's cool about this one is that you get a micro-adjust. We've got a micro-adjustable butterfly clasp. Now I know, Christopher Ward has, I wonder if that's what,
Everett he teased to us like two years ago.
Andrew He has, so Christopher Ward has suggested or alluded that they're really the only ones doing this. I know Vacheron does something similar in the overseas and has for some time, but we've not seen anything like this in affordable watches. I've read a few things about this, or at least in relation to this or the 12, where York Bader Sr. claims to have invented the butterfly clasp. I'm not able to put a point on that. If you, if you know, so here's what I believe the butterfly clasp has been around for a hundred years, maybe more. However, your Bader senior is in interviews, having taken credit for inventing that. I don't want to say your greater senior didn't invent the butterfly class, your Bader senior being the CEO of CW Switzerland. I don't want to say he didn't, but is there some nuance to that claim perhaps that makes it true? I don't know. If you know, I'd really like to know what your thoughts are on this because I thought that was interesting as I was looking at this. Uh, anyway, moving on from that, this is a micro adjustable butterfly class, I have always poo-pooed the butterfly clasp, not because it's not comfortable. They are comfortable. So comfortable. Assuming you can get one to fit. They're so small and they're so subtle that they just disappear on that bottom of your wrist. But if you don't get a perfect fit, you're stuck. You're stuck with wherever that thing lands.
Everett And that's why you got to use really short lengths.
Andrew This gives you three millimeters of adjustment. Hmm.
Everett It's a lot. That's a lot.
Andrew I mean, it's enough. Yeah, it's enough. So, but this is a $5,000 watch. Yeah, you're right. 48 65. Um, you know, this is an expensive watch. A lot of that is the movement finishing, which is also the Dow finishing, uh, because, because it's a fully skeletonized Dow watch. Is this a... A couple questions, maybe not fair.
Everett I mean, this is just for this iteration of the 12. The standard fair 12s are what, like $1,500, $1,800?
Andrew Is this a Zenith Defy homage? First question. And is this a Zenith Defy for about the same price as Zenith Defy? How much does Zenith Defy cost? Weren't those 13? Zenith Defy... Yeah, certainly that's more. I mean, no, you can get, well, let's see, the skeleton? Yeah, yeah, we're Googling on the show. We do it live all the time. So $82.65 for a Zenith Defy.
Everett Is that used or is that brand new in box? That's at Joma Shop. Okay, so brand new in box likely.
Andrew And so I'm not, I'm not taking anything away from Christopher Ward, but you know, you're getting into some heavy hitters here. Yeah. Yeah. They've, they've definitely priced this thing.
Everett Well, and, and Mike France has been on here and said often they will, um, they're more expensive watches. They will go against their three X pricing model. Oh, has he said that? Yeah. He said it on this show. Oh, well, there you go. That they'll sometimes pull it down a little bit.
Andrew I love this watch. I'm just saying for right now, Jomashop, you can get a Zenith Defy Skyline Skeleton for $8,595. Are these limited? I don't think so. I didn't see anything suggesting this was limited.
Everett This is a cool, this is an interesting introduction into the Christopher Ward portfolio of watches.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah.
Everett Well, cause we're, and we're seeing some, an interesting, um, separation in Christopher Ward watches right now. We're seeing some like really haute stuff.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah. We're seeing the orgs. We're seeing the orgs come to play man.
Everett And, and then they're, they're like, they're foundational watches are still iteratively getting better, but still staying within that really traditional, simple design language and this really cool kind of, I mean, in an interesting way, we've got this experimental zone of Christopher Ward and then the staples.
Andrew I'm going to paraphrase heavily when I say this, but York at one point told me he was not interested. He did not care about the run of the mill production stuff. that he was into the higher end. This is York Jr. This is when he showed us the Bel Canto. He's like, I don't care about that stuff. That stuff's like whatever. This is the stuff that's cool. Yeah. And so I think we're seeing with the increase in Swiss production, I think we're seeing a well, it's always been Swiss, but they've increased their capabilities to make high end cool shit. And so we're just seeing more of That's what this is clearly.
Everett This is a maturation of Christopher Ward and they're, they're, they're letting, let, letting loose on the reins a little bit.
Andrew Andrew, we've got time. We've got time for a few more watches, but what else do you got?
Everett I want to mention the, uh, Norcain Wild One, um, just cause it's such a neat, uh, thing. They have a fully customizable wild one. option on their website. They claim that it has 3.5 million possible configurations. I went and, um... You counted them all? I did. I counted them all one by one. And they're, they're not right. I'm actually, I don't do math good, so I'm sure that they are right. Because you can customize every single thing. The case, the dial, the shock absorber, the bracelet, the strap, the buckle, the every, the movement, the movement, the hands, every damn thing on this watch is totally customizable. They're $19,000, but what kind of got me excited about this is like, that means that this is what Norkane's supply chain is capable of right now, that they can do totally customizable watches direct to you. And that's an exciting thing because when they, when, when a brand has such control over their supply chain, it, it means that they're in control of everything.
Andrew Well, look, I don't make watches, but if you give me $20,000, Andrew, I'll make you something interesting and unique. I don't know.
Everett That's an exciting, exciting prospect for me that I can order a watch today. Every single component of it I chose from their list of, you know, five to 12 options per customizable component, and it's going to be in the mail.
Andrew You know, uh, Katelyn Schmidt, friend of the show, friend of mine, uh, when she went over to Norkane, I thought, you know, I'm going to, I like Norkane. Norkane's a cool brand. I don't like Norkane. I've decided to, I think Katelyn's still there. I'm sorry, Katelyn, if you hear this, I don't like Norkane watches. I don't like them. They did not interest me at all. I don't think they're particularly attractive. I think they're too much for what it is. That's just me. That's just me. This is subjective.
Everett This doesn't interest me. This customization tool is what got me excited. I don't particularly like the wild one, but if I could have the wild one of one, I'm okay with that.
Andrew You know me. If anyone's buying one for me. You know me. I hate poo poo in people's purchases, but just saying if you like norcane, you're stupid.
Everett And that's, that's fact. You've heard it here.
Andrew Uh, IFL watches, Andrew, do you know what this is? IFL watches. So it's actually, I think I fucking love watches is a watch designer. They, they do mostly collaborations and really they're known for sort of taking watches and making cool, uh, painted dials, like, like custom artwork dials. They made a Steamboat Willie Suyosa, which is a Moonwatch. This is a space slash Steamboat Willie themed. And they've all been to the moon. And we talked about this recently, right?
Everett We talked about the Suyosa when it was released.
Andrew Well, we talked about the Steamboat Willie thing. So Steamboat Willie is in the public domain now, meaning it's old enough that anybody can use the imagery, Steamboat Willie. So this is a free use, a public domain use of Mickey Mouse. Yeah, real old Mickey Mouse. IFL has taken advantage of and stuck on a citizen watch And it's a Soyosa, which is just a terrific watch. You know, these things are 40 millimeters by 11 and change, and they don't cost very much money. This was the perfect platform to use. Well under a thousand bucks for integrated steel sports watch. With a cool IFL dial. Yeah, I was not a whole lot to say about these. I think these are available right now as you hear this.
Everett 150 of them.
Andrew Yeah, so let's see.
Everett Under a thousand bucks.
Andrew Yeah, 900 bucks. So these are, as of this moment, sold out. Oh, too bad. Oh. They're sold out.
Everett They might, they'll pop up secondhand.
Andrew Anyway, I thought this was cool. I thought this was cool. I did hear some criticisms on the artwork that it's a little like, sloppy looking. I'm not sure I agree with that. This is, this is neat. It's got like sort of a Tiffany blue sunburst dial. Uh, this is a cool watch.
Everett Yeah. I disagree with the sloppiness of the artwork.
Andrew I mean, it's our critique, right? It's art. So it's, it's hard to, this is kind of what IFL does. And this is based on a previous IFL. So you also watch that has a very similar drawing, but without Mickey Mouse, this is the one with Mickey Mouse. without Mick Mouse. That's it. That's all I have to say about that.
Everett That's all I got to say about that.
Andrew Andrew, you got any more watches you'd like to talk about?
Everett Uh, nah, I can, I can cut the rest of these. What'd you got?
Andrew Okay. So, so just quickly, there's a new Orientstar M34 F8. Check it out. Uh, Hanhart introduced a limited production Preventer 9 black. It's all black. It's, it's Schwartz. Uh, it's cool. It is.
Everett This was an overlap watch.
Andrew Meistersinger redid the Neo, which is their 36 millimeter. It's now got Sapphire. It's terrific. I think that's the rest of our list.
Everett That is. It closes us out.
Andrew Andrew, other things. What do you got?
Everett Oh, I have another thing. I got a thing for my birthday and we broke it out the other day. A prostate exam? I mean, Yeah, but that was, I mean, it wasn't from like a medical professional or anything. Fine.
Andrew This is a self-proclaimed exam.
Everett Why does it gotta be self, man? Why you gotta do me like that? You did it. You were there. Anyhow, I got a spike ball kit. It's called the backyard kit, and I pulled up a slightly different one, but it's the same. Wait, what's spike ball? So spike ball, I'm gonna explain it.
Andrew Oh, you're getting there.
Everett So spike ball is a yard game activity wherein you have a net trampoline and a ball about half again larger than a softball.
Andrew I've seen this.
Everett And it's played with volleyball rules with two teams of two. But you're bouncing it on the net and there's still a there's a set and a spike and then a set and a spike. and a set and a spike and the whole goal is to cause the opposing team to miss any score points. I was introduced to this game in like 2019. I was at the police academy and there were people that would play it in the yard and I was like, oh, that looks kind of fun. Played it and I was like, oh, this is fun. especially when you get adults playing like this really small space game, because that's what it is. It's like it, the, the trampoline itself is, uh, three feet, maybe inch in diameter, uh, good bouncy net inflatable ball. So you're not having to run all over the fucking place. It's not tennis. It's not kind of stagnant, stationary, like ping pong. It's engaging. It's fun. Like you can, play it while you're drinking beer and it's perfect. So the one that I got for my birthday is, and most of them collapse down into like a little, one of those string pull backpack bags. It weighs next to nothing. It is super fun and the kids like to play it and you don't even have to really play with them. They just bounce the ball and then run and get it. Like they play fetch with themselves. Uh, 70 bucks from, from Dick's sporting goods. You can, You know, take your pick of what you want. The one that I got is pretty, it's plastic, but it's like pretty sturdy plastic. It feels good enough. I'm not concerned about breaking it. And like, unless an adult, a human adult, a kid can fall on it. If an adult falls on it, I think that will be the end of that game. But also because it's light, like it's not, you know, you got some weight to strength ratio there. Yeah, this is, it's been super fun. The kids have like bouncing the ball and. Sounds cool. It's, it's a, it's a fun yard game. It's a fun camping game. So that's where like it's going to get thrown in the trailer and play it all summer and. That sounds rad. Yeah, it's good. So that's my other thing. Uh, it's, it's like a, it's like the right level of intensity for middle aged people.
Andrew That's, I was going to ask you, you were talking about this and it made me think of something. Have you ever played stump? I don't know what it is. You have a stump. There'll be a nail, a big nail in it. You have a hammer. This is a drinking game. It's like a tailgating game. You flip the hammer into the air and then as you catch it in a single motion, you can't stop it. So you have to, you try to pound the nail. Just in terms of the space constraints, I was like, this reminds me of like, like this is oddly competitive and people get into it, but it's in like a tight space. You know, you don't need a bunch of room, like cornhole or whatever. You can sort of do it right here.
Everett And it's, it's a little bit more intense than cornhole. Like you can't get as sloppy playing it cause you still gotta have some, some good motor function and some agility. I've never played stump. This, that looks like my speed of a game though. It's rad.
Andrew I was thinking we need an opportunity to play stump. We need to get some stumps. Andrew, I've got another thing. Do me. I'm sorry you guys. I'm back to knives. I can't, I can't get away. It's sort of my hobby right now. And it's been, you know, you go through phases of life where you're like, this is the thing I'm into. This is the thing I'm, I'm doing right now. And that's where I'm at. So I'm excited about it. And yeah, I'm just going to keep bringing it back. So we've, we've had several people message us to say, Hey, I bought a knife based on your knife series. And thanks you guys for doing what you do. I got the nine 40 or whatever. I think that's awesome. I love getting those messages.
Everett Yeah. I'm telling you the Osborne is ugly as sin and is the best feeling knife I've ever had in my hand.
Andrew It's so terrific. It doesn't make any sense. I love getting those messages. You guys keep them coming. If you, if you bought a knife based on our series, our, our, our EDC knife series, even if it's not the ones, the ones we talked about, let us know because that is so fun to hear. So I got, I got a, I got a knife and it's a knife I didn't particularly like. Um, I got the Benchmade Griptilian, but The Benchmade Griptilian's been around for forever and ever. This is an FRN plastic, Grivory scaled knife that's super famous. It's probably one of Benchmade's best-selling knives. But I had handled this knife and I just knew I don't love that knife. I don't love the way it feels. I don't like the Grivory scales. But I like the knife. I like the blade shape. I like the size. But that knife In the package that it gets sold, it is not terrific. However, there are a billion of these things. So I bought one that was basically new. I got a terrific deal on it. And, and I, I went ahead and this is my first sort of modded knife. I wanted to mod a knife. And so what I did, there's a company called AWT. I bought a set of AWT Archon scales, Archon. And they are, what they are is aircraft aluminum that have been milled and coated with Cerakote. This is a Cerakoted aluminum scale. And it took a little bit of time for everything to get to me. So, but I got everything and I put it together and I instantly fell in love with this knife. I have, I think, the best Griptilian you can get. I've got a Benchmade Griptilian. It's just a Benchmade Griptilian, but with customized scales. And this thing is absolutely, I put it together and I was like, I got to get this in Andrew's hands because he's going to love it. This is right up your alley. Yeah.
Everett That's, that's all the things that I like. I want a combo blade, but.
Andrew It feels good. The shape is good. The weight is good. It's sort of got that cool, but not cold feeling in your hand. Um, the archon is like, it's like a textured aluminum.
Everett It's, it's, it kind of is like the, um, the Presidio, uh, grip.
Andrew It feels similar, right? Yeah. It feels similar. Uh, it just took this knife that I was like, man, it's kind of weird. And I recognize its place in history, but it's not for me. It took it. To being like, yes.
Everett Yes. Yes. Yes. It feels like an Osborne that, that grip is, is kind of a, is, is kind of the, the meeting place of those scales between an Osborne and a bug out. It's contoured like an Osborne is, but still really geometric like the bug out. It's all the good things of both, you know, you, those aren't Griptilian scales. They're not. Well, they are. It's on a Griptilian, but they they're not the Griptilian kind of like taper off a little bit of a teardrop grip.
Andrew It's not round. Yeah, it's it's it's got a little bit of kick out at the bottom, which gives it, I think, a little bit more modern and perhaps a little bit more generic look. But they're generally shaped the same, but they just have it's got a little bit of more angle at the bottom. You would ask me like, OK, so modding a watch versus modding a knife. Um, anything you can do on a watch short of changing the strap is more complicated than modding a knife. I have, I think taken apart 25 different knives from, you know, all the way down. Like every single component that you can take apart has been taken apart. Every time I get a new knife, I
Everett I just take it apart. Take it apart and polish it and clean it up and... Yeah.
Andrew Every time I take a... I just pull it all apart. I polish the washers or lube the bearings, depending on which knife. If you've ever even considered taking the case back off of a watch, you can take apart a knife. With way less consequence. That's right. That's right. It's so satisfying. And so easier than working on watches by a million miles. And really fun and really fun. I really enjoyed doing this project. And there's something about, you know, you change the dial on a watch and all of a sudden you have a watch that feels to me like it's less than the original. I know not everybody feels that way. I've always kind of felt that way. I didn't feel that way with a knife. You know, this thing is actually improved. on the original, not just in terms of the function, but also like emotionally speaking, you know, this is just a better knife and it's more valuable. And I don't have any of that negative feeling like, oh, it's not the OG, it's not OEM. Like, this is just awesome. It's just, all things are yes, yes, yes.
Everett Yeah, and the scales on that are great. It's a shame that that's not a, like an OEM available. that you got to go aftermarket parts for it because that's how that knife should feel.
Andrew That's how it should feel. And you know, in fairness to Benchmade, they do a lot of different stuff on different knives. Um, I know you can get the Griptilian with, with G10 and now that's actually a pretty good feeling knife. Um, I don't think they offer an aluminum option, but, but maybe they do.
Everett That blade shape and size, you need some weight in the handle. And that's a good, that's good.
Andrew It's just a really, yeah, it's really terrific. I really enjoyed the process. Not the cheapest way, you know, I think these AWT, so Applied Weapons Tech is the company, I think they make gun parts in addition to knife parts. It's they're not cheap. I think these were 90. Do you have that? Do you have it pulled up?
Everett Uh, they, oh gosh, I did just have them pull up and then I was looking at the other stuff that they make.
Andrew Um, it's essentially like a hundred dollars for the scales.
Everett Yeah. So, so there is a bug out scales, Archon series, contoured Sarah coat, 70 bucks, uh, for the bug out for the, for the Griptilian.
Andrew I think there were a hundred. Yeah. Ooh, that's cause it's just more material.
Everett That combo blade on that bug out is tempting.
Andrew So, you know, if you figure $140, I think, for the Griptilian Nu, probably $110 used in pretty good condition, plus $100. It makes for a pretty expensive knife at the end of the day. I think they just make nice stuff. Oh, that might be true. I thought they did.
Everett Did you make, oh gosh, they make custom thumb studs too?
Andrew Yeah, they make all sorts of shit, dude. Oh. AWC. There's a handful of these companies that are making really cool stuff. RGT, AWT, Flytanium is sort of famous. I think they kind of make, I'm not a huge fan of Flytanium, but there's a number of brands that are making really cool mod parts for knives and doing so really well. And you can get everything from modestly affordable to very expensive.
Everett Yeah, 90 bucks on Griptilian, 70 on mini Griptilian.
Andrew So, you know, it makes this like a $250 knife ish, which that's Benchmade costs. Your, your mileage may vary. Um, yeah, it, it seems, it seems fine to me. I'm a big fan of this. It's good blade steel. I got the S30B, which is not anything spectacular in 2024, but totally decent, really good steel. Yeah, this is a cool, it's a really cool knife. I'm, I'm really glad I did this and I really liked the knife.
Everett It's a good knife.
Andrew Yeah.
Everett Are you going to change the pocket clip?
Andrew You know, so I was thinking about getting the polished steel. I don't know. We'll see.
Everett Get the polished deep carry for that.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Maybe the deep carry on that. Yeah. That would be the next. That would be the only thing I'd change. Maybe change the pivot too. It's still got a black pivot, so.
Everett Ooh, yeah. Get a polished pivot.
Andrew Andrew, anything else you want to add before we go for the day?
Everett You know, I think I've exhausted the things that I'd like to opine on.
Andrew Well, thanks for coming and talking about watches with me.
Everett You know, it's my pleasure. Thank you for coming to my house to do so.
Andrew And hey, you, you folks at home, thanks for tuning in to listen to us talk about watches. Uh, we appreciate tuning in to this episode of 40 and 20, the watch clicker podcast. Do me a favor, go to our website, watch clicker.com. That's where we post articles and reviews and other things about watches. Plus every episode, this podcast, if you want to check us out on social media, you can do that in Instagram at 40 and 20, or excuse me, at watch clicker or at 40 and 20 underscore watch clicker if you want to support us and we really hope you do you can do that at patreon.com slash 40 and 20 all the things we do cost money and the folks that are supporting us pay on patreon allow us to keep doing this and don't forget to tune back in next thursday for another hour of watches food drinks life and other things we like bye-bye