BRO5 Goes Ceramic (286)
Published on Wed, 17 Apr 2024 22:51:22 -0700
Synopsis
This podcast episode covers a variety of watch news and releases. Some highlights include:
- Discussing the new Zenith Defy Extreme Diver and its relatively high price point for a Zenith watch.
- Patek Philippe standardizing all their watches to a 30-meter water resistance rating, and analyzing the reasoning behind this move.
- New releases from brands like Nomos, Bell & Ross, Citizen, and Cartier, with details on designs, pricing, and personal opinions.
- A recap of some interesting watches from Watches & Wonders, and how some opinions have evolved after having time to digest the releases.
- A brief mention of the Bremont brand and their new "reintroduction" releases aimed at repositioning the brand.
Links
Transcript
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| Andrew | Hello fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 and 20, the watch clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you? |
| Everett | Uh, you know, just busy, busy, just, just doing my thing. Uh, no, I'm good, man. I, um, I went to the Oregon knife show this weekend, which was cool. |
| Andrew | That was a really interesting lineup. I didn't go, but I looked at the booths that were the vendors. Yeah. Going to be on scene. And that was an interesting lineup. |
| Everett | Yeah. You know, the, there's a bunch of like the shot show and blade show. And, um, there's several of these, uh, you know, you know, like, national products. This is more of a homegrown, uh, a smaller, a smaller show. So amongst the major knife companies, QSP was there, uh, and Spyderco were there. Kershaw was there too, weren't they? Kershaw wasn't there. Um, so, you know, for those of you don't know, Oregon's sort of a hotbed of, of knives in, in the country and, What's that? Knives. Knives. You know, Benchmade is here. Kershaw is here. Gerber is here. Meaning zero tolerances. Kershaw meaning zero tolerances also here. Gerber, CRKT, Leatherman. So as well as numerous, like smaller, much, much smaller maker companies. Anyway, Oregon's a big deal. None of those companies, none of those companies were there. None of them at all. Which I was like, that's interesting. I thought it was weird too. And I thought, hey, you know what? It made me think maybe there was a political, some, I don't mean like, like United, like US politics, but maybe some sort of like, they don't want you, the big brands there, or there had been something that anyway, long story short, I went, it was really fun. You know, a lot of sort of private collectors with really interesting collections. Um, older guys. So a lot of like traditional knife collections, you know, great, great eastern cutlery, uh, case, that sort of thing. Uh, anyway, it was, it was a lot of fun. |
| Andrew | A lot of buck. I imagine too. |
| Everett | Uh, there was quite a few buck knives. Yes. Yes. You're right about that. Also buck was not at the show. Um, but yeah, got some stuff. It was fun. Uh, it was my first knife show. So that was fun. It was cool. Some of the, you'd go by a table and you'd be like, Oh, this looks interesting. And then you'd be like, Nope, this is all crap. Uh, or then you'd go by a table and there'd be like six things and they'd all just be heaters, you know? So yeah, it was fun. Um, but yeah, that was, that's, that's about the only thing new for me. Andrew, how are you? |
| Andrew | I am good. I'm worn out. This weekend was not a relaxing weekend on Friday. Well, so, so yes, on Friday is when my weekend sort of began. Uh, I had to drive to Portland and back for a chess tournament and that was eight hours in the car. Uh, and for those of you familiar with the 100 mile trek between Eugene and North Portland, it should be about five hours back and forth. Yeah. So it was eight. Uh, that made for a really long day. And at the same time, Sam flew out of Portland International Airport into California. So I spent eight hours in the car on Friday to watch one chess match and then be a solo parent all weekend, which was taxing because on Sunday I, Mark had his first lacrosse game, which I was coaching. And fortunately, my dad came down to wrangle our younger son while I coached a pile of third graders who were. Being third graders? Yeah, being third graders. I think some yotes just ran through our neighborhood. Oh, nice. Yeah. Those were big shadows that were not in the road. Um, anyhow. Oh, and they decided to name their team the coyotes. So. Oh, cool. Yeah. Apropos quite apropos given what just occurred in our in our hood So yeah, it was just it was a really Not refreshing weekend. I was very much looking forward to going back to work on Monday and being left alone And now here we are Wednesday and I am refreshed from my weekend and very much looking forward to the next one |
| Everett | Uh, well, good. Well, good. In any event, we're not here to talk about knife shows or, or, or coyotes or, or even, uh, or, or even lacrosse playing coyotes. We're here to talk about watches and a week it's been. So, so this is the first week after, you know, the majority of the watches and wonders releases. So a little bit of a slower week, which means a couple of things. I think one, it means. We get to take a step back and kind of talk about some of the Watches and Wonders stuff that has developed over the week, or at least for me, had kind of, you know, the week's worth of stewing. Made its way to the top. Yeah, just provided some clarity on some things. And also we're going to talk about some new watches that did come out or were announced this week, which I think some of these are pretty fun. |
| Andrew | There's some hot fire. It's still on the tail of watches and wonders. |
| Everett | It's certainly some smoldering embers at the very least. Yeah. Can I start? |
| Andrew | I'd like it if you did. Okay. I want to start with an interesting Zenith release, the Defy Extreme Diver. And this is interesting. So this is not, It looks like Zenith, but it's new. It's new and refreshed. This is a 600 meter dive watch with an helium escape valve. And here's what I really like 42 and a half on this thing. And this is, that's what you want. You want a beefy, but not monstrosity diver. Bummer is that it's 15 five thick. It has the El Primero three, six, 20SC high frequency movement, 36,000 with a 60 hour power reserve. Here's what I don't like. I don't like the case sides. They have these like screwed in crown guards that just, the rest of it, the top down is great, but the screwed on crown guards. Oh, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. |
| Everett | You know, that's pretty standard. |
| Andrew | Um, but I don't know how to, what, what that, uh, what that shape is called. Yeah. I didn't know. I don't even know if I counted it right. Um, great bracelet on this thing. And this thing is money. This is barring the crown guards. I love this new, kind of chapter for Zenith to be introducing a no bullshit deep diver. 11,300 for these. Kind of right where you'd expect it coming from Zenith. This is just a good release. That integration of the bezel is cool. Like with a, it's depressed. So you have like a crown inside of the bezel. They're not a crown, uh, like, stepped bezel. I don't, what would you call that? What like? |
| Everett | Yeah, I don't know. It's got a multiple piece bezel with, I think that that additional piece is there to sort of protect the crystal and keep the chassis a little thinner. You know, I actually don't, I don't quite understand this watch. I don't think it's necessarily ugly. It's definitely not a, It's definitely not a handsome watch. Oh, it's titanium too. The whole, yeah, the whole thing's in titanium. Uh, I just don't know. I don't know how Zenith has, has, you said the price is about right. |
| Andrew | And actually that's where I'd expect it to be for an all titanium in-house movement. |
| Everett | I don't know. I mean, I think the competition that this watch has, Um, you know, say from Rolex or Omega or, um, you know, even perhaps Tudor, although that's not a completely fair comparison. I mean, this thing is more expensive than anything in the same sort of category coming from those companies. I mean, obviously it's a big 600 meter watch, but. Uh, it just seems like it's positioned too expensive. |
| Andrew | I just said from a marketing standpoint, it is maybe a little bit of a weird drop, but I'm, I'm down with it. I like, it's not going to be for me, but I like this release room. It's different. It's new. It still feels like Zenith, but it's, it's new and hot. |
| Everett | Yeah. You know, far be it for me to say, what Zenith should or shouldn't do. I do think I was kind of shocked to see basically a $12,000 Zenith. Uh, you know, it's got some cool shit. Uh, the, the rotor is, it's got like a, the oscillator has like a weight on one side, but the whole thing's shaped like a star that's kind of centered. It's pretty, it's pretty trick. You know, I, I don't know. |
| Andrew | I'm, I'm good with it. This, you know, this is, it's not a for me watch, but I like, I like this release. I like this introduction into their catalog. It's not going to be limited edition. It's available right now. |
| Everett | How much is a Chronomaster Sport new? Ooh, I don't know. I want to say a Chronomaster Sport is like 11,000 new. |
| Andrew | Yeah, that sounds about right. |
| Everett | And that is sort of, for me, that's like really Zenith's flagship. It's a more handsome watch. No, much. It's a watch that's got a lot more going on for it in terms of movement. No, this watch has a fantastic movement, but to bring this watch in positioned above your flagship, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. |
| Andrew | I think it's kind of weird. I think it's an interesting, barring the crown guards, I hate the crown guards. |
| Everett | And like I said, you know, a watch is worth what a watch is worth. I just think from a marketing standpoint, it's, it's going to be a tough pill to swallow for a consumer. |
| Andrew | Maybe, especially on a double pass nylon. They'd be a thick bitch, but, uh, what you got? |
| Everett | I am going to talk about Bremont. Bremal. Bremal. I'm going to talk about Bremont. The, uh, English watch company, English, both in terms of its provenance, uh, and in terms of its former owners, uh, Bremont, I, Bremont, I, I think is sort of like one of those companies that is successful, not withstanding the fact that their, their watches are just sort of like, kind of outside looking in for a lot of people. They're cooler than like perhaps Raymond Weil or something. But anyway, Bremont has a weird place, I think, in the world of watches. Famously, famously kind of sold out a few years back and brought in a new CEO, David Serrato. Serato, I don't know, uh, who formerly of Tudor and, and they brought this fella in and this year or this last week, I would say Bremont did a bit of a reintroduction to the world, uh, perhaps a repositioning or, uh, a, a brand re-identification, um, releasing, releasing a couple of watches. Well, releasing a new watch and then releasing a full new line of watches, uh, and touting it as an evolution. I'm putting my finger quotes evolution from the world of aviation to a new brand architecture, embodying land, sea, and air like, Oh, okay, cool. Uh, you know, I, I think, what happens in these situations. You know, a hedge fund comes in, purchases some or all of a company. They inject it with money. They bring in some proven, uh, some known quantity players. They say, do your thing, make something happen. There's ideas that get pitched and they get workshopped and, you know, here we are. And sometimes that's a real successful thing. And sometimes it's not, and you don't always know right away, right? The reaction to these new watches. So they've got a new series called the Terra Nova series, which appears to be a wholly new series for Bremont. |
| Andrew | Which means the earth don't go. |
| Everett | It's a four watch series. And then there's also a, Oh gosh. I don't know what you'd call it. They're saying a redesigned supermarine, but it's really like kind of a new watch. A supermarine 300 meters. So I'm going to steal heavily from an article written by our good friend, Mike Razack on a blog to watch. Rack check. Rack check. Yeah. For this piece, Mike wrote a fantastic article, way better than anything he ever wrote for WatchClicker, which is really disappointing. But Mike wrote a really, really... Not as good as what he's done for Hodinkee though. A really good article about this, which is fairly critical, I think, of several things. And also takes a look at these new watches. The Terra Nova series, for what it's worth, the Terra Nova series winds up being four watches Um, one of those is a chronograph, one of them sort of, uh, uh, navigation watch with a compass bezel. You've got like a, uh, tourney bezel, uh, chronograph and these two sort of field watches, a date field watch and a no date field watch. They've all got kind of like chopped tonneau cases. Um, And most importantly, or perhaps maybe notably, there's a new font and logo. The logo being a compass, the font being generic, I think is a kind way to say it. |
| Andrew | At best. Boring, I think, is better. |
| Everett | Yeah. Well, maybe bad is a possibility here. Uh, I don't like the logo. You know, these things are subjective. I think this logo is kind of, kind of, but, but, um, you know, I, I actually don't hate this watch. I think this watch is attractive. Um, the Terra Nova, I said, this watch, these four watches are attractive. Them watches. The chronograph's got some real, uh, some real, Fotina thing going on as does, I think actually all the brown ones do, but they're using block loom. Um, the dials are interesting. There's this, the power reserve on the, on the compass watch, the bracelets are interesting. I've never seen anything like this with from Bremont, Bremont. I'm going to say it every, every way possible. |
| Andrew | I really hate, hate, hate the execution of the power reserve on the compass watch. Oh, whatever. I don't like power reserves anyway, but having Terranova London as the. Wrapped around it. Like the wrapping text around it, put it at the six o'clock in the minute track, like everyone else. |
| Everett | Another thing Mike brings up in his article, all four of these say London on the dials. Bremont's not in London, nor do I think these are made in London. Kind of an interesting choice. You know, I don't hate this release or these releases. Similarly with the Supermarine 300, also with the new font, new logo, I don't hate it. I actually like this. I like this watch. Mike's big criticism of this is that it really abandons all vestiges of the prior Supermarine, and I don't think that's unfair. It's not a complete abandonment, but it's a pretty big departure. Uh, the bracelet on the Supermarine though is like, Ooh, I don't like this bracelet at all. I don't like the end link. I don't like the bracelet, but the watch itself I think looks pretty terrific. |
| Andrew | It's a really curious end link. |
| Everett | Yeah. I mean, just look at the picture. So we're going to post Mike's article because he spoke about this more eloquently than I think either one of us could. Um, but I think this is watch news. You know, we, we talk about releases, not really news. This is watch news that I think is valuable. And, but, but we're not really journalists. So we're going to, we're going to post a link to someone who's talked about this meaningfully. |
| Andrew | And, and it's, it's a re-imagining of the Bremont brand. Yeah. I think that's what this is. This is, this is the Phoenix from the ashes though. They weren't really ashes. This is, this is an interesting pivot. Um, |
| Everett | Yeah. Well, I actually think it might be kind of the opposite of that phenomenon, right? I think this might be the hedge fund, uh, coming in and, you know, perhaps, well, I don't want to call it yet killing a brand, but you see these kinds of moves when, you know, I think it's too early to say Bremont jumped the shark, but I don't think it's too early to have some concerns. |
| Andrew | Hmm. I agree. Next up for me, a brand we don't talk about all that often, Patek Philippe has done an interesting thing. And I have questions. They have standardized all of their watches to a 30 meter water resistance rating. Yeah. Why? We go from what were previously, by and large, specced sport watches that cost a bucket load of money. And now they're getting rated at 30 meters, which are like shower watches, maybe. I wouldn't shower in a 30 meter watch just because I don't want to I wouldn't shower in this watch anyway. I'd keep it like in a dehumidifier zone. Um, this is a interesting choice. There's not really anything more to say than that. Why, why can, why are we taking 120 meter, 120 meter water resistant watches, rerating them at 30 to match across the board? Are they actually reducing water resistance or are they just trying to, standardize down to their lowest common denominator? Why are we taking this ball or sport watch and taking away one of its most important components? Why? And I say, we, I didn't, I wasn't a part of this decision. They didn't ask you? They did not. Um, because really 120 is just, it's just extra gravy. Just leave it at 110, man. Standardize at 110. |
| Everett | Did you grumble about it at the board meeting? |
| Andrew | I did. And they, they basically said, Hey, you weren't invited. You should go. I was like, security's on the way up. I was like, I'll be fast. Uh, you, you bet you can't catch me. Uh, and they didn't. And now I am here is still grumbling. Why? That doesn't make any sense when we're seeing beefier and beefier like watches companies tending towards the, the watches of, you know, five to eight years ago where there were seeing these big overbuilt bulky Watches with helium release valves again, which though cool. |
| Everett | I just don't under like whatever They're saying nah less is more better From the press release to ensure the homogeneity and clarity of the information provided to clients not customers clients Patek Philippe has decided to introduce a new unified standard of water resistance Set at 30 meters for all watches certified as water resistant having been tested in air and underwater by immersion and an overpressure of 3 bars, corresponding to a depth of 30 meters. This measure makes it possible to guarantee the same performance level across all models concerned and to provide perfectly comprehensible information as to the day-to-day activities in which clients can engage while wearing their watch, washing their hands, showering, bathing, swimming, and other aquatic activities, including diving to depth of 30 meters, which corresponds in large measure to actual utilization. So, you know, I think a few things are going on here. One, I think PADEC is body checking a little bit. I think there is an element of we're doing this because we can. I imagine that there is an element of efficiency, right? Like how many people are diving in a Nautilus or an Aquanaut? And they're like, nobody actually, and to the extent people are diving in a Nautilus or Aquanaut, they feel confident that the watch is going to do what it's supposed to do in those environments. I, I wonder about this. I think this may be something that has the possibility of changing the industry, changing the way, you know, if Patek is doing it, we can imagine that other companies are kind of, you know, putting their fingers together in a teepee form and waiting to see what happens. It's interesting. It's really, really interesting to be clear. I don't get, I didn't, I've, I've read a bit about this now. I didn't get the, the feeling or the indication that the actual engineering or specifications of these watches is going to change any, I don't get the sense. |
| Andrew | So either, but why not spec it appropriately? |
| Everett | I think that's the body check part of this. They're like, we don't need to, You know, we're good for it. |
| Andrew | A meter of water resistance, probably more. I just, I think that's, that's like putting a V6 badge on a truck with a Hemi in it. Like, well, it's bigger than a V6, but it's, it's definitely at least a V6. I think, I think that is wrong. I think if you're, if you're putting something out there that can perform to a certain level, put it on there. Don't, don't make people guess, right? If the, if, if the Speedmaster was rated to 110 meters, they put 110 meters on it, but it's not. So they don't. It's, it's a, it's a weird, weird flex. If that's, I just think it's a strange thing to do. |
| Everett | Yeah, you know, I don't know. I mean, we'll see. We'll have to see what happens. My guess is that this will deter absolutely no one. |
| Andrew | The same people are going to keep buying it, right? I was never going to buy one. This affects me none. I just think it's a curious thing to be doing. |
| Everett | You know, I think that the, I think that the other piece of this and the piece that is, is attractive perhaps to, to me and theoretically to you is that there, you know, Patek Philippe certainly has models that are not water resistant. Uh, and so I think if there's, if there's a benefit to this, they're implicitly perhaps giving an additional status to their watches that maybe wouldn't test more than 30 meters, or they wouldn't be inclined to test them at more than 30 meters. They're saying, this is water resistant. Do what you're gonna do. These watches are good enough for any shit that you're gonna do in the water. Don't sweat it. We don't have dive watch anyway. This is good enough. It's, this is a water resistant watch. We've tested it to 30 meters. Do what you like, go swimming, wash your hands, take a shower, eat shit. We don't care. It's good enough. This is water resistant. Don't sweat it. Stop, stop, stop fretting. 30 meters concerns me. Well, the 30 meters only concerns you because the way we talk about water resistance and watches, which you and I have lamented. dozens and dozens of times on this show is stupid, right? It's it we talk about water resistance in a dumb way. So if if I told you, Andrew, this watch is good to 30 meters three bar. Don't shower in it. What the fuck are you talking about? And yet that's what the industry does. That's what that's what we do. I think |
| Andrew | But we see fogging issues and we see moisture and all that shit at 30 meters. |
| Everett | I know. I know. I know. I think that's what Patek is saying. They're saying our shit's good. This is water resistant. Don't fucking worry about it. Maybe. I think that's what they're doing. I think that's part of what they're doing. I think the other part of what they're doing is they're just flexing. They're like, we make the rules. We don't. Yeah, that's right. |
| Andrew | Maybe. That's right. I think, I think it's bothersome and I think I think water resistance ratings are troublesome in and of themselves. Cause you can have these 10, 20, 30 meter rated watches that fog and get moisture penetration at, in a shower, in a, in a sauna, in a, at the gym, which means to me that watch is not actually |
| Everett | A 30 meter watch, right? |
| Andrew | No, I agree. But we've, we've, we've seen so many failures at that 50 meter and under rating. |
| Everett | You and I will likely never be more than 30 meters underwater. |
| Andrew | No, if I am, I'm dead. |
| Everett | Right, right. Like real dead. So if we can trust Patek Philippe, not that either one of us is trusting them with anything, but if we can trust, they say this is good to 30 meters of water resistance. And that means that's meaningful. I'm there for it. If it's meaningful. |
| Andrew | And with them, you know, when we're having a 120 to 30 meter reduction, we can reasonably deduce that it's meaningful. I think Hamilton all the time with with their fogging issues, and it's like that's a 50 meter fucking watch. It should be fine. |
| Everett | You still can't buy it at retail, so so so fuck off now. |
| Andrew | Maybe they'll pay my mortgage, though. I could trade them. They pay my mortgage and I get to watch everyone. |
| Everett | wins. Hey, uh, German company Nomos Glashütte. Uh, one of the things that sort of slipped by us in watches and wonders, and this might've been a late watches and wonders release, which is why they, uh, to celebrate watches and wonders 2024, they released a Tangente 38, which celebrates 175 years of watchmaking in Glashütte. Uh, a 31 iteration limited release 175 pieces of each of the 31 different iterations of this uh of the tangente 38 and they're all wild man they all all of the iterations have their own names like the sport bunt and the dolphin and the model groom and the house wise |
| Andrew | I like the dunkelbunt. |
| Everett | Dunkelbunt. Yeah. Pompadour. Um, I, you know, these are the... Lemon biscuit? |
| Andrew | Canary is sort of a bit of a letdown because it's just yellow. But it's spelled with a K and an I, so it's like fancy. Pop orange? Or, or German. I think it's poop orange. Poo-orange. Uh, they're, they're fun in German. |
| Everett | So 175 pieces of each, you know, I haven't checked stock on these to see what the availability is. |
| Andrew | There's damn 70 colors. There's going to be some available. |
| Everett | You know, the Tangente is a really, is a really terrific watch for under 2000 bucks. You get a, um, you get a 38 millimeter watch. That's I believe six and a half thin, 6.8 millimeters. It's a particular looking watch, and I've handled these before. Our good friend, Clay Foster, Southpaw STL, had, I'm not sure if he had the 38, anyway, but it was still a Tangente. These iconic small seconds, and these all have that. I mean, it really is just a terrific watch with 30 meters of water resistance, Andrew. |
| Andrew | Unacceptable. |
| Everett | And in a really lovely movement, so in-house Nomos, I think the DUW4101 is what they call this, which is just a terrific hand-wound movement that has an integrated date ring that sort of sits down into the movement, allowing it to be super duper thin. And giving it that huge, that huge date that the Tangente has. These are terrific. They're novelties. They're limited. When do they become available? Let's see. I believe they're available now. |
| Andrew | I was just on the website and it says, join the waiting list. So they might actually all be sold out. |
| Everett | Well, you know, that's too bad. You know, you'll probably be able to get them on the secondary market if you really wanted one, but Yeah, see, discover now. |
| Andrew | I think this is one of their better executions of color. I think they might not be available yet. |
| Everett | Join the waiting list, find a retail. You know, they made, I don't know, man. I guess it's possible that they're sold out. That's a lot of watches. Well, it would be a, it would be pretty cool. Yeah. 31 times 175. That's 3,700 watches. |
| Andrew | 3,800 watches. |
| Everett | Anyway, they're terrific. And I wanted to talk about them because I think NOMOS did a cool thing. They did a cool thing. That's all I have to say about them. |
| Andrew | Which isn't, and NOMOS isn't usually a brand that gets me excited. |
| Everett | Right. Nomos doesn't do all that many cool things. |
| Andrew | No, but the Dunkelbunt has, has done it. |
| Everett | So is the Go. It's not that they don't do cool things. It's just that they're a pretty, they're pretty reserved brand, I'd say. |
| Andrew | The, the Go also. Go Dunkelbunt. I might have to buy two. Wear them on each wrist. Go Dunkelbunt. Um, next up for me. Uh, ooh. I have a fun thing. Bell and Ross has done a thing this past week. The BR05 black ceramic collection. So Bell and Ross has done a lot of ceramic work. This is their first BR05 in ceramic in this material. Comes in two iterations, one with a skeleton dial, The other with a standard black BR05, full, normal, attractive dial. |
| Everett | The sunburst, or starburst. |
| Andrew | Sunburst? Yeah, not starbursts. That's a candy. Yeah, I like those. Everyone does. Do you know, they get stale so fast. Yeah, they do. And then they turn into like now and laters. Yep, yep. Which though, still good. have some like real dental issues. Stay with you. Days. Where was I? Oh yeah, so BRO5 in black ceramic. I don't dig the skeleton. That's the, like Bell and Ross is really confusing to me because they do some stuff that I absolutely love and some stuff that I absolutely hate. There is no in between. They are either 100% hit for me or like kick it out of bed. and have deep regrets. Uh, the skeleton is, is that for me, but the standard dial is money. And this is the BR05. This is one of the most comfortable wearing watches I've ever, I've ever put on. They're sized great. I love these. The price is yet to be announced, but it's just a, it's just a BR05 in black ceramic. I think prices on this are out. So the one I'm looking at says to be confirmed. |
| Everett | Three models, the standard black ceramic with the sunburst dial 7,500, the BR05 skeleton black ceramic at 9,700, and the 500-piece LE skeleton black loom ceramic with the smoked sapphire dial is 9,400. Uh, the, the, the L E has no polish on it. It's all blasted, which is kind of terrific. Um, and, and it has black glue, so it's really murdered out. |
| Andrew | These aren't there. They're not that much more than the standard steel. |
| Everett | Nope. |
| Andrew | A thousand for in ceramic. That's right. Oh, they are on the website. They're live. Um, I, I, I like this. I, I, I could get down with this. |
| Everett | You know, I don't know all that much about ceramic cases. It's something that is interesting to me. Uh, but I, but again, I just don't know that much about it. These are, these are pretty terrific. And the BRO five I think is a, a very, very underrated watch at, at its price. Um, it, it, Bell and Ross has, has some weird shit. Like you said, the BRO five, I think is pretty straightforward. It's like nothing else that exists in watches. But still familiar. Dimensions are terrific. I think it's at 41. I think the regular BR05 is 40 by 10 and a half thick. This is a little bigger. I think that's probably a byproduct of being made from ceramic at 41 and 11.2, which is still just absolutely terrific for a watch that has way more water resistance than any Patek that's made today. |
| Andrew | hundred meters, 70 more. Oh, I don't know. I, that was just a, that was a guess. |
| Everett | 70 more meters of water resistance than any Patek on the market. |
| Andrew | Uh, the standard case is 40 millimeters in steel. Yeah. |
| Everett | 41 by 10 and a half in the standard. So yeah, these are terrific. I think, and they're not that much, like you said, they're not that much more expensive than a steel blacks, |
| Andrew | Steel case, black dial, $5,100. Ceramic case, black dial, $75. So, you know, $2,500, which is not insignificant. Yeah, no, that's real money. But when we're talking about the difference between $5,000 and $7,000 for... I mean, that's steel cases. I want one. |
| Everett | It's like 38% more. It's a lot of money. Uh, ceramic. Yeah, these are, these are really cool. I agree. I had this on my list of things to talk about today too, Andrew. |
| Andrew | Yep. And I got to it first. |
| Everett | Gotcha bitch. We got another release from Citizen. Uh, we've talked a lot about how much killing it Citizen has done and they're still doing it. They're still doing it. So, We're calling these super titanium small seconds NJ0180. It's the NJ0180 series. Just rolls. |
| Andrew | Yeah, just rolls. They could, they could do a little bit better with their naming conventions. |
| Everett | I feel like sometimes they're, sometimes it's great. And other times it's like, well, like we need to come up with a name for this thing because it's just alphanumerics. |
| Andrew | It's fine. 84 character long. |
| Everett | You know, they had their Suyosa collection and then they had, more recently they dropped the, was it Super 8? Is it Super 8? That's a motel. Yeah, that is a motel. In any event, These are watches that I think kind of fit right in between those uh those releases certainly in terms of price but I also I think also I think in terms of of what you're getting so these are what they are is titanium super titanium which means duratex coded or protected titanium. |
| Andrew | It's not grade two, three, nor is it grade five. |
| Everett | Giving it really superior hardness. Citizen, I learned in reading about this watch, Citizen is sort of the pioneer in watches of commercially available titanium watches. I guess it sounds to me like there was maybe just a little bit of an arms race between Omega and Citizen back in the seventies. And Citizen won that war. So Citizen and Titanium, kind of inextricably linked. These feel a lot to me like the Suyosa, which is to say it's an integrated sport watch. We've got 430 small seconds on these and a really beautiful textured dial. Coming in right at 11 millimeters thick, really nifty sort of 80s, 70s, 80s styling. I feel like these are more 70s than 80 or more 80s than 70s, excuse me. They feel more modern to me than the PRX or the Qtime X. Still kind of an undersized crown, which I wish these companies would just like, let's do it, but let's make it modern. Um, a hundred meters of water resistance, sapphire crystal, beautiful dials on both of these. We've got a blue and a silver, like sort of a, a teal, uh, like kind of a light teal, kind of a sea foamy minty, not, uh, like peppermint, uh, ice cream kind of green. |
| Andrew | Yeah, that's right. |
| Everett | Caliber 8213, which is a fine movement. It seems to fit the watch. They're under 500 bucks. |
| Andrew | That's the one that gets me like I'm I'm I can overlook a 430 small seconds for an all titanium. Decent enough movement for under 500 bucks. |
| Everett | I don't even I don't even mind this. I don't even mind the small seconds. I think it looks great here. I think the execution is really good. I I don't like |
| Andrew | Oh, what's the word I'm looking for? Asymmetry? Asymmetry of a offset small seconds hand or small seconds sub dial. |
| Everett | So right, these fit really kind of right in between the Series 8 and the Suyosa. Series 8, yeah. You're getting, it just was there. It was just accessible to me at that moment. You're getting just a, a little bit more refinement over the Suyosa without the sort of higher price point. Kind of the case and the bracelet and everything sort of fits right in between those two. It's got elements of both, which is not to say it's aping either. Beautiful dial, great markers, great handsets. These are terrific. Four colors available now. You got white, sort of a navy, dark jadey green, and a lighter seafoamy green. Terrific watches. |
| Andrew | Kind of, it's like Tiffany in some color, some photographs. I think that'd be an interesting one to see in person. Uh, this is, yeah, definitely a banger from Susan. |
| Everett | In-house movement. Bear's mentioning. |
| Andrew | Shocking. Uh, Santos de Cartier. Or Cartier's like dropping some shit right now. We have a dual time now in the Santos de Cartier. the Santos de Cartier being from the 2008 family. So it's a little bit beefier. It's not quite as slim as the, uh, as the traditional Santos. Uh, we now have a dual time in the way your headphones caught your, you just got a, like a little pompadour look going on right now. Um, a six o'clock, 24-hour sub dial to dual time the original custom pilots watch It's it's it's a kind of surprising that this isn't That this is new it sort of seems like something that should have always existed. It's a great execution. It's I love the though it looks like it ought to be small seconds when in fact it is the second It's your it's your GMT hand in a six o'clock sub dial colors on it are adequate. I don't know. It's a gray sunray brushed dial. It's, I don't know. I could go for a little bit different color way on it, but a three o'clock date, which I'm not super fond of. Um, I think on this with a, and I get why you have one. I just, I don't like date windows on the Santos, but everything else about it, I really dig. This is a great execution of, which what looks like it ought to be small seconds. 8,800 bucks on these 40.2 wide 47 lug to lug 10 one thick on this. Uh, so coming in razor thin for a dual time, a hundred meters of water resistance. That's important. |
| Everett | Way more than paddock than any paddock that's being made. Way more. |
| Andrew | Uh, I've, I don't, I don't get mine wet. Uh, mine, I bang it into shit, though. Yeah, I like this release. I could go for it. And I got true black rather than this kind of charcoal-y gray. |
| Everett | Yeah, no, I think it's terrific. I don't mind the colors at all. It's got that monotone thing that seems to be the du jour. right now. You know, it's interesting because I didn't, I didn't notice it until you mentioned it. That date window, I think is really inoffensive in and of itself, but, uh, Cartier, for those of you who've never seen a Santos, uh, we'll know they askew the Ivy Roman numerals in favor of four eyes, uh, at the four o'clock position. And for which I was, that was kind of clever for whatever reason in, in this iteration, it, bugs me a little bit because you get rid of the three and that sort of adds some for me, at least at first glance, adds some confusion to the four, which is not to say I don't know where the three o'clock and the four o'clock is. I always think that's stupid. It's not a real legibility concern, but I can't read Roman numerals. So I thought, well, that's interesting. |
| Andrew | Uh, I don't actually mind that date window at all, but I really love the font at the, on the, on the on the dual time. |
| Everett | I don't like it. It's the one thing about this watch that I don't love. |
| Andrew | I love the font. |
| Everett | Uh, I, that dual times in particular, that font, that Sarah font is, is not, not my favorite part about this watch. In fact, it's my least favorite part about this watch. |
| Andrew | You can go fuck yourself. Yeah. I, I super liked this release. How much is this? |
| Everett | Cause these, I agree with you that this is a really. 8,800 bucks. Um, |
| Andrew | And you think the Santos is 7-2 right now, I think, 7-1, 7-2. And in that family, you know, we've just seen the reverse time, which was just another, just a real missed opportunity for a crowd left. We've seen lacquer dials. This is kind of, that's consistent with kind of where I'd expect it to be. Yeah, no, I don't, I don't hate that price at all. |
| Everett | I think that's, I think that's fine. I love it. Cool watch. Andrew, I'm out of things. I don't know if you have any, I know you had a couple more links that you had, you had floated. |
| Andrew | Um, I, you know, I, I think we can do without them. Uh, I, I'm just going to quickly mention, um, we have a Omega chronoscope models in moonshine gold and steel. in honor of the hundred days to the Paris Olympics. |
| Everett | What do you think of these Chronoscope Seamasters? |
| Andrew | They, they are beautiful. Absolutely gorgeous. This is the first time I've looked at like a gilted dial and been like, Hmm. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm, I'm here for it. Um, And in steel, 90, 95 on a strap, 98 on a bracelet, get it on a bracelet. It's 300 bucks when you're spending 10 grand. This is, it's like Navitimer beautiful. It's like a super busy, way too much going on, but done really elegantly. Uh, and, and it, it's like looking at, um, like old star charts that are like, you just can't comprehend it, but it's just lovely to look at. Uh, that's kind of how I'm feeling. The gold versions are 32,000, um, on a strap 51 on a bracelet. Uh, so you know, that bitch is gold. Um, that one, I'm not actually, I'm not as into gold watches. Typically don't, don't do it for me, but this in the steel with the, gold markers, the gold hands is just gorgeous. That, that really rich silver dial, man, I, I, I like these and, and independent of the Paris Olympics, um, got telemeter, a pulsometer. It, it's gorgeous. |
| Everett | You know, I, I, I asked you what you thought of these Chronoscope Speedmasters because I obviously had some feelings about them. I think that these are, I agree with you 100% that these are super attractive, lovely watches. With that said, I think that there's something amiss for me with this dial. I think, I wish this was in a different case. The Speedmaster has such a masculine and sort of, I wouldn't call it boldness, but anybody who's handled a Speedmaster will know what I mean. It's really like phallic. The case is concave or excuse me, convex at every possible angle, or at least it feels that way. I think this dial, is so elegant and the line weights are so thin that there's a mismatch between the case and the dial. I wish that this was in a slightly different case, this Chronoscope Speedmasters. I wish that they were doing something to address that as opposed to just stuffing this beautiful dial and bezel into the big Speedmaster case. I think there's a mismatch there. I agree with you. Stainless is better than the gold. I hate the case back on these. It feels. |
| Andrew | Oh, yeah, it's a novelty watch, right? It's Paris 2024 with the Olympic flame. |
| Everett | Do something better. This to me feels like 2017 microbrand case back and I fucking hate it. |
| Andrew | Yeah, a little bit. Only 50 meters of water resistance. |
| Everett | Fucking shit. It's still 20 more than any paddock being made today. |
| Andrew | The the the wave of the meter lines run through the sub dials. Yeah, they change colors. They change color. It just it adds this. Yeah, this is this is gorgeous. That's why I want to talk about it. |
| Everett | I do think that I agree with you, Andrew. The dial on these is gorgeous. The handsets gorgeous. The markers are gorgeous. I just think it's a mismatch. I think that case doesn't actually work. |
| Andrew | What do you put in there? You don't put it in the Seamaster. |
| Everett | You don't put it like I hear me out. Hear me out. Make a case for these. Make a Speedmaster case for these. that has a little bit of concavity, that is more elegant, you know, that has a little bit more sort of in to out line that gives a little bit of elegance, that Speedmaster case is so like, and it's made to be heavily durable. this, this watch needs a little bit of elegance and, or the style needs a little bit of elegance in the case that I, I think isn't there. That's nobody asked my opinion. I'm just, except for these people listening. |
| Andrew | Did you ask, did you mention it in the board meeting? |
| Everett | I did. It called security. I am not fast. So you left quick. |
| Andrew | Um, yeah, that's the last thing I wanted to talk about. I think it's a, it's a really, really lovely release. Um, And honestly, at. At 10 grand, that's like. I don't know, that's a thinkable acquisition. |
| Everett | This I've got the whole dinky article on these up, and it's the very first comment. Who would buy a silver colored Olympic watch? Just saying that's funny. |
| Andrew | It's got gold on the dial, man. Andrew, other things, what do you do? I have another thing, and it's kind of an interesting other thing. I got these, I got this thing at work. Um, cause I, I work from a laptop a lot and I got from my work. I didn't buy it myself. A portable monitor. Have you seen this? Tell me more. So it is basically a tablet, right? Mine's a, I don't remember the brand, but it's about a 16 inch monitor that is USB powered that when I'm working and it's as thin as an iPad. It folds up, it has the same little magnetic triangular mounting thing. It's USB powered, you plug it into your laptop, into one of your USB ports, and it is a second monitor. It weighs next to nothing. The actual display on it is terrific. And they're super affordable. They're like between one and two hundred bucks. So I like I said, I don't remember the brand it was, but I was using it today because I wasn't working in my office. I was working at a different location and I needed a another screen because I was doing some shit and I plugged in my USB portable monitor and had a monitor bigger than my laptop monitor side by side, dual monitor everywhere I go, weighs nothing, takes up no space in my bag. It is, Dope. So if you're somebody who works on the go, these, they also pitch these for like gaming, you know, plug your phone into it and then game on your portable monitor. Hmm. They're terrific. And they're super affordable. Is it touchscreen? Uh, mine is not, but the, so it could be theoretically. Yeah. Theoretically. So I'm, I'm going to link a popular mechanics, with the seven best portable monitors for smartphones, laptops, and dual screen gaming to it. Because this is something that I never thought that I needed. My boss was like, Hey, I'm going to get you one of these. And I, I like, I laughed at her and I was like, are you stupid? Why would I want one of those? She's like, just trust me. Not my money, sort of. I pay taxes, but that's about the extent of it. Um, it comes in the mail. I get it. I'm making fun of it. I throw it in my bag. I'm in a class and I'm like, Oh, I want to see how this goes. And I was like, Oh, how brilliant. How about that? Cause I, I work, you know, when I'm at my desk with two monitors. Yeah. Everyone does that nowadays. Yeah. Uh, at home I use two monitors. I just keep my laptop open. Uh, and now it can go everywhere with me. I wish I should have brought it home today, but I left it at my desk. |
| Everett | You know, I, I use sidecar with my, I'm a Mac guy, so I use sidecar with my iPad, but an iPad is a lot more expensive than, than a 150 or $200 monitor, obviously. Um, uh, you know, but it is, it is a terrific functionality, especially, excuse me, especially if you're working purely on your laptop, you get that extra space, but working anytime I'm doing graphic design stuff. So if I'm, working in Affinity or if I'm working in Lightroom or Photoshop, Sidecar actually oftentimes will give you, instead of using it as an additional workspace or additional display, it will give you a set of controls so I can actually do things on it. And it's terrific. I don't use it enough to have really realized the full power of it. having, especially when you're working on a smaller laptop, it's brilliant. Yeah. |
| Andrew | Yeah. That second screen functionality is terrific and it's bigger than my regular screen and the picture is just as good if not better than my laptop. And yeah, I'm, I, uh, was really shocked to the extent that I, I will probably buy one for myself cause they're not expensive. |
| Everett | Yeah. |
| Andrew | That's terrific. Yeah. It's my other thing. |
| Everett | Andrew, is it okay if I recycle one of your other things? No. I'm going to do it anyway. Okay. I started a series with Kim, uh, this, I don't know, a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, and we've watched, I think seven or eight episodes now, maybe not even quite that many. Um, but this is one of those things. You're not watching enough television. You had, you had recommended this several weeks ago, but you watch kind of stupid stuff sometimes. So I heard what you said and I was like, Oh, that's kind of sounds interesting, more interesting than many of the things Andrew recommends. Um, certainly. And then like six people recommended this to me, like over the course of about three or four weeks. And so I was telling Kim, I was like, Hey, we got to watch this. And she's like, it doesn't sound interesting to me, but sure. Whatever. And so finally one night she was like, what are we watching? I was like, I think we're kind of like caught up on everything. Why don't we try? that and she's like, oh, okay, let's watch a trailer. The show is Shogun. It is on, we're watching it on Hulu. |
| Andrew | I think I, that's where I watched it too. |
| Everett | Um, this is set in what? The futile, futile in Japan. Yeah. What is this? 15th, 16th century? Um, where is it? It's, it's more recent than that. I don't know. |
| Andrew | No, hang on. I'm looking premise. |
| Everett | So the basic premise of the show, 1600s, 1600s. Okay. So 17th century, uh, premise of the show is this. So we're in sort of Jesus, Andrew, I don't think I could have made more noise. |
| Andrew | Sorry about your ears. |
| Everett | The, this Protestant Spanish, uh, Seafarer. They call him a pirate. It's unclear, really. But basically an anti-Portuguese sailor. He gets marooned in Japan with a boat. |
| Andrew | Sort of on purpose, but also a little bit not. |
| Everett | Yeah, that's right. Gets marooned in Japan with a boat full of guns and gets sort of unwittingly sucked into this Japanese power struggle. Um, meanwhile, there's Portuguese Catholics that are sort of have stepped into Japan and have like found places of power, given the Japanese, uh, the Japanese lack of knowledge about what's going on in the world. |
| Andrew | And the trade that they could offer, like there were a whole lot of geopolitics going on. It's |
| Everett | really, really good. The acting is good. The characters are good and fun. Some of it's a little silly, uh, and some of it's a little like, meh, but. They gotta keep the story moving. It keeps you there, right? It is so good. I think we're, you know, like I said, between five and seven episodes in something like that. And it's like, golly, this is good. I understand this is based on a book. I don't know anything about the author or the novel. I think maybe even a number of novels. I know nothing about them. I do feel like I need to read them because it's so good. It's a little soapy. |
| Andrew | Yeah, a touch. It's got a little bit of soap. 1975 novel adapted into a 1980 miniseries now remade Hulu and FX. And as I've said before, I think FX is second only to HBO in original programming. |
| Everett | Yeah, it seems like at least at least in the last 10 years, that's fair. Yeah. That's a fair assessment. So anyway, really terrific. |
| Andrew | I've been, I think Apple is, is, is they're closing in their, their selections limited though. They've got, you know, four or five, six true original series kind of new to the game. |
| Everett | So time will tell that their quality is, you know, quality over quantity. I feel like Apple is kind of where HBO was maybe, a dozen years ago, right? There's not many, but they're all bangers. Yeah. No. |
| Andrew | Yeah. They're all, they're all definitely bangers and they're starting in the modern era, right? They're not doing that trial and error that HBO did of, you know, the, the, the weird, uh, premium television, soft core porn programming. They're just, they're jumping right into it. And the way Netflix did, I mean, Netflix, Their original programming right from the get was phenomenal because they had they were able to learn from HBO and all these other cable. |
| Everett | You know, they all better watch out. There's a new player in the game. I heard Truth Social is launching streaming. So everybody. |
| Andrew | I cannot wait for that. |
| Everett | Andrew, is there anything you want to add before we get going for the day? |
| Andrew | You know, I'm going to go get a Truth Social subscription. That's it. |
| Everett | Not really. Probably not. Hey, thanks everyone for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20, the watch clicker podcast. Do me a favor, go to our website. It's watch clicker.com. That's where we post every single episode of this podcast, but also articles and reviews. Uh, things about the British watchmakers fair, uh, check it out. Watch clicker.com. If you want to see us on social media, you can do that on Instagram at watch clicker or at 40 and 20 underscore watch clicker. If you want to support us, and oh boy, we hope you do, you can do that at patreon.com slash 40 and 20. That's where we get all the funds that we need to keep this thing going for hosting and hardware and software. All of you guys supporting us, but thank you so much. Check it out, patreon.com slash 40 and 20. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Buh-bye. |