Episode 247 -The Icons, 40 and 20 Edition
Published on Wed, 19 Jul 2023 21:45:36 -0700
Synopsis
Andrew and Everett discuss their personal top 10 most iconic watches. They go through the lists in ascending order, explaining the significance and impact of each watch on their watch journeys and interests. While there is some overlap, such as the Breitling Navitimer, the lists diverge as they highlight watches that have been most influential and inspiring to them individually. The episode culminates with their number one pick being the iconic Rolex Submariner. They also briefly mention some watches that didn't make the cut and discuss other topics like Everett's recent experience reading the Grant Morrison run of the comic book series "Animal Man".
Links
Transcript
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| Everett | Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 and 20 The Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you? I'm doing well. Yeah? Yeah. Now that I'm unmuted, I'm doing well. I mute you pretty regularly. You guys do not know how much he says that he that that isn't. It just never makes the show. It never, it never hits the air. Most of it's just, you know, blithering, blothering, blathering, blathering. Some of it's worthwhile. And I, I do regret muting those portions, but. So I, uh, I was listening to a show this week and the person was a podcast producer and they said she was talking about what her, what her, editing is like, and she actually separates out each of the text chains so that there's never overlap. And I was like, that is fascinating. I of course don't do that. If we talk over each other, they're just still over each other. Yeah. We just argue and people like that. It's just like being at a bar. Yeah, that's right. That's right. You're just louder. So people hear you better. |
| Andrew | Maybe. Yeah. |
| Everett | Maybe. I'm well. How are you? |
| Andrew | I'm good. |
| Everett | I don't really I have really unproductive weekend, but I did a lot. I was constantly busy and I don't feel like I accomplished anything. Really not a great feeling, but a feeling nonetheless. It's cooling down a little bit, so I don't have heat rash all over my body, which is nice. Because that's been a thing. Yeah, they're not just plugging away, plugging away and just chugging on along. And you're here tonight to drink beer and talk about watches. I am, as per usual on Tuesday nights, which is always the best part of the week. We're here to talk about watches. And Andrew, although I really like the roundups, although I really like getting into the latest, greatest, most interesting, I think you are inclined to mix it up a little bit. And you've been begging me to do an episode that wasn't a roundup as of late. And you picked a goody tonight. Why don't you tell these kind folks what we're going to talk about tonight? Yeah. So we were just, you know, spitting balling ideas and thought about our take on the 10 most iconic watches. Boring. So we spiced it up. And we decided, because the 10 most iconic watches is an article that's on every single outlet. And it's the 10 same watches with the three same honorable mentions. Yeah, there's like 14 or 15 watches. Just kind of circulate. That qualify. Yeah. And they all live on the list. Everyone has one. We, you know, as lazy as we are, that was maybe a bridge too far for us. Maybe not a bridge far enough, I don't know. In fairness, there will be some overlap in the watches we talk about in those lists. Yeah, but in talking about the idea, we decided to kind of shake it up a little bit and go with our personal 10 most iconic watches. And those are maybe not the most iconic watches, but they've been the most impactful watches in our own desires, interests, journeys, take your pick on terminology, but maybe the 10 most impactful watches to us. And so with that, we'll caveat that a bit. There's some qualifications here. This is not a purely subjective list. Mm-hmm. These aren't our favorite watches, nor is this a purely objective list. There will be those of you at home that will say, you can't have included this, and rather you should have included this. Well, fuck yourself. And to that I would say, that's fair. Agree to disagree. But that's not the point of tonight's episode. These are the 40 and 20 most iconic watches, and it won't be 10, and it won't be 20. Correct. Because there's a fair amount of overlap on these lists. There was actually less overlap than I was expecting. But also a fair amount of diversion between the two of our lists. And I think the diversion is, or I think the divergence perhaps is, probably won't be surprising. I think we got these lists to a place where they make a lot of sense. I think they kind of tell our various versions of this story in a good way. I'm actually kind of excited about this. The things that are important to us, the things that we hold dear. And for me, it was hard in, in making this list. And we actually even talked about this before of watches we love that are maybe not iconic or influential in the sense that we wanted to take it. So we maybe had to go a little bit upstream of watches that we love that inspired the watches that we love. Or perhaps were inspired by the watches that we love, yeah. And so we'll get to that as we go through the list. Format's gonna be a little different. We've never quite done a top 10. No, because we usually can't even get through six. We've never done top 10 on this show before, so we're going to have to hustle, but here's the format. We're going to give you our in ascending order. Yes. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and we'll save our tops, our top picks for last. Uh, but, but that's how we're going to do. So we're going to start with the bottom three. Uh, we'll each give you, we'll each give you our options and then, and then we're going to unpack these a little bit. So Andrew's starting with 10 and finishing with eight. What are your first three picks? Are we going to go one for one or am I just going to go three? No, go all three. Okay. So first up the Doxa 300T. Okay. That's my number 10. Next at number nine, the Breitling Navitimer and at number eight, the Omega Speedmaster Pro. Okay. And I've got at 10, the Youngins Max Bill. Okay. I've got at nine, also at nine, the Breitling Navitimer. That's interesting. And at eight, I've got the Cartier Santos. So just to review, the Doxa 300T, the Navitimer, the Speedy, the Max Bill, the Navitimer, the Santos, respectively. Let's get it out of the way. The Navitimer shows up on both of our lists. At number nine. It shows up at nine. It's one of only two equals. I think that's right. We don't have anything else in the same position that overlaps. Tell me a little bit about your thoughts on this watch. Why does it make the list? So the Navitimer makes the list for me because it's one of the most interesting trajectories of a watch that I've ever seen. Breitling is obviously this aerospace pilot-oriented instrument watch company, and they make all kinds of really cool stuff. The Navitimer for me is one of the most fascinating experiments with emerging technology. While holding true to the things that they need, they want to make a pilot's instrument And for me, when I think of the Navitimer, I see obviously the Navitimer that you broke first. But then my next image in my head is of the Navitimer LCD. And these are two wildly different watches that are identical somehow. One of them is a very small LCD display but with all of the other Navitimer cool stuff. And this, this watch to me is important because it's the first super, super tool watch. That's also really valuable and purpose driven that I'm like, Oh, I get it. I get why you need, I see it. This is a purpose built watch. I have no, purpose for it. But I want it because that's awesome. Everything that went into this is intentional and deliberate. And though it's busy and though it's way more than I can understand, and though there are better ways to do it, I still absolutely love it. Yeah, well, and I think that this was so I'll just say this is one of the watches that shows up on all of the most iconic watches. This is objectively one of the most iconic watches ever made. I think that dial layout, and particularly the rotating slide rule on the bezel, the added functionality of this watch being a real, true, so in the 50s, a true tool watch, right? With this complication that really hadn't been used before, except perhaps by Breitling with the Chronomat. This is truly a first-in-class type of watch, and it's been sold nearly constantly, if not actually just constantly, and has inspired dozens of homages. I mean, it's just... Everybody knows what it is. And everyone has made one. Universally loved. This is a classic. iconic watch, even not watch people know what this watch is. Yeah. No, I think it's, I think it's an easy pick. I think it's appropriately placed on our lists. This is a watch that I think inspired, uh, one of our crowd favorites, the Nighthawk. Yep. Certainly inspiration behind the Nighthawk. Yeah. This is, this is a really easy pick. It's a beautiful, gorgeous watch from a great company. Doing tool shit. Easy pick. Easy pick. Talk a little bit about the Doxa. I want to talk about the Doxa. So this was this was a hard one for me. And it's because I other watches led me to Doxa. And I think that's why I'm OK with it being on this list, because it is largely unchanged since its release. It is a longstanding brand. It's doing a cool thing. It's an attractive watch. It's unique. But every single, not every single, many of the watches that I love, these vintage inspired dive watches, these simple, attractive skin divers lead me to Doxa, which makes it the icon, right? That I got there through these other watches. And now unfortunately I need a freaking Doxa and that sucks. Yeah, this watch is really close to making my list. Spoiler, it did not. It did not. But it was really close to being on my list. I think it's a fantastic watch for so many reasons. I do think there'll be a Dachshund in my future. Probably it's my next real watch purchase, if I had to guess. I'm going to go 300, not 300T after much teeth gnashing. Interesting. We'll have to talk about that off air. But yeah, no, I agree with you 100%. I've picked I've picked the Younghins Max Bill, and I do want to talk about it a little bit. There was a bunch of watches that all kind of did similar things that I thought, well, this or this. The reason I put the Max Bill in this space, so it wasn't the first watch that I think could be described as Bauhaus because there was lots of watches that came before the Max Bill. So the Max Bill famously based on a late 50s kitchen clock design designed by match Max Bill and then rolling into the 60s 61 I think is when the design actually happened 62 is when the watch released this became a watch that has been sold for most of the time between now and then although I do think there was a gap and this watch like everything all of these iconic staples from the Bauhaus movement has inspired dozens and dozens of things. The Max Bill has inspired all of Timex. That's right. That's right. And the fact that these were re-released a number of years ago and are now found in, you know, 30 different iterations. There's something about this watch that feels really glorious to me. You know, and it's not just Timex, right? MVMT, Daniel Wellington, All of these watches that have sold billions of copies are based on this. And I think it's an easy placement. You didn't pick it on your list. I don't chagrin that. But for me, I think in the lineage of watches, my number 10 pick, Max Bill, I think it goes on there. I think it's an easy pick. And I actually think I'm going to, I don't think this is too much of a hot tick. I think this is the most underrated watch in the history of watches when we when we credit icons. I think this is one of the most underrated watches. Yeah I don't know that's really a hot take. Maybe second to only the Polerouter but I'd put both of those in kind of the same. You know people know them people talk about them but they're not really quote unquote iconic. Well I guess they are but they're certainly not top 10 in most people's lists. I'd put them both. No and I think I think what we see in a lot of the top 10 lists are huge marketing, huge brand ambassadorships. I think things like the max bill are easily lost in the noise that's generated in the money-making machine of watches. And so quickly, we're going to dispose of these because they're going to come back at number eight. You have the Speedmaster pro at number eight. I have the Cartier Santos. We'll come back to those. We will. Because now, quickly, with your 7, 6, and 5 picks, Andrew, tell me what you got. I have the Casio F91, the Cartier Santos, and the Tag Heuer Monaco. And I have the Hamilton Field Catkin Mechanical, I have the Rolex Datejust, and I have the Speedmaster Pro. Okay. I want you to go first because I went first last time. Yeah, so I think the most controversial pick on perhaps my entire list is the Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical. I think that's it. Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical. And I kind of wrestled with it a little bit, right? Because I think that there are other watches... Well, there's about two dozen. Well, right? This is an A11 or... This is a watch that is not unique to Hamilton. This is a watch that is not really unique at all, right? This is a spec watch. It's particularly in its current form. But over the years, this watch has kind of always been there. A little bit different forms. Sometimes it's been quartz. Sometimes it's been... Dial changes. And there have been dial changes, that's right. But it always seems to me, or it seems to me that it's always been kind of a stalwart. since it was introduced in its earliest iterations. This seems to me to be a bit of an entry-level real watch icon. Hamilton, we've talked about that company a ton. And Hamilton's one of the few brands who has maintained that spec watch throughout. That's right, one of the only companies. So formerly an American company, now famously a not American company, Hamilton has this weird place in the industry, right? They're kind of the watch of Hollywood in some ways. Yeah. You know, Matt Damon's worn a Hamilton on Mars, right? This watch is, this brand is sort of outside of its own trousers in terms of where it lays all over the place. And yet for me, it's the most simple, probably the most inexpensive Hamilton that you can buy always shows up in part because it's inexpensive, in part because it's great. I am a owner of a Hamilton khaki field mechanical, which I'll probably never part with unless it breaks. And I decided to get a new one. There's something about this watch that just, it's part of the collection for anybody, or at least part of the mental collection for anybody who comes into the hobby short of, you know, the, the Saudi Arabian prince who, who starts off at a much different tier, right? He's buying Richard meals as his first watch. That's right. Everybody else comes in, they take a look at it. Right. And they're like, Oh, I see it. I understand it. You might not buy it, but you see it. And I don't just mean it like, I mean, you see it with your, with your existence. It's the upgrade from the SNK. |
| Andrew | That's right. |
| Everett | You have the SNK, I guess it's a hundred bucks. I see why it's a hundred bucks. And you see the field and you're like, Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. I, there's, there's something a little different happening here. Yeah. That's right. And, and I would say, I don't think the SNK made either of our lists, Andrew, but that almost goes into this spot for me. Right. But the SNK was like the first watch I bought in that spot. But it's its successor too. This A11. I never looked back, right? I got the Hamilton Cackey Field Mechanical and that was it. I didn't really look back. I still have my SDK. The SDK leads you to it. That's right. This was the watch that actually made sense for me in that spot. So, um, yeah, next up I've got a Rolex Datejust. I don't know that we need to say a lot about, you know, you've got the Oyster Perpetual. I think the Datejust, you know, and also I'm going to make a note here. I put an alternate on this one where I said, I think there's an argument to be made that the Explorer could go into this slot. I ultimately decided the Datejust out. You actually alt explored the Hamilton. Oh, well it could have gone for either one of these, right? Yeah. It could fill either of these roles. Ultimately, this is what I picked. I think there's something about that fluted bezel on the Datejust. and or the president, but the Datejust is just an easier pick. I didn't get fluted bezels until I saw the Tudor prints. And I was like, Oh, I get it. This wow. And the Tudor prints is a Datejust, right? Yeah. It's all it is. And it, cause in person, in photographs until you see one in person, it's just kind of like, Oh, okay. And you see it in person, you put it on and you're like, Oh, there it is. Okay. Literally every single male member of the AMA in 1983 was issued a Datejust, a two-tone. And so it's like the most famous watch of all time, right? It's the only watch to be worn by every single American Medical Association member for the better part of 25 years. Yeah. I made all of that up, but it could be true. It's happening. It's plausible. It's happening. Uh, finally, finally, my number five pick the Speedmaster Pro. Interesting choice for me. I'm going to just say it to put the Speedmaster so low. Yeah, but I don't know. I can kind of accept it, given what's north of it. There was a couple things on your list that I was expecting to see and didn't see, and I'm kind of curious about and will want to ask about later. Okay. So the Speedmaster Pro, probably my favorite watch. This is the watch when I had the money to buy a watch. This was the one I bought. This is the watch I love. It's my favorite watch. Give me a hundred watches. At any price, I'm probably gonna wear this one more than any of them. I just love the Speedmaster. We don't need to say anything more about it. I did put it at five, which felt low to me. It felt low to me, but in fairness to the topic of today's show, I put it at number five. And when you see what's north of the list, it makes sense. Andrew, 765, go. 765, I have the F91, the Santos, and the Monaco. And the F91's kind of a weird choice. Yeah, it's I think a bit of a controversial pick. It could, you know, I accept it as a controversial pick. Yeah. The F91 is, that was a great resonate, man. The F91 is a watch that's been worn by American presidents and the FBI's most wanted. It is without a doubt an iconic watch and it costs $12. And the F91 has always been a grounding watch in my watch box. Like I love this watch. I wear it regularly and it costs $12. It sits six inches away from my Santos, from my Manta, from significantly more expensive watches, and I love it just as much. And it's for me, in the way of an iconic watch and an influential and kind of inspiring watch, like the dollar value isn't it. This is a watch that I love because it's awesome. And that's what matters to me because it's just awesome. And Osama bin Laden and Barack Obama also can't be wrong. Like if the three of us are on the same page, it's an awesome watch. Mixed company. Yeah. No, I don't agree. I don't disagree with your inclusion. In fact, well, I'll leave that for later. Uh, I think it's a great pick. I think it works. I think it works here. Um, in particular, based on the way the rest of your list is going to go, it does fit. It's been worn probably by more people than any other watch on earth. Um, it is, And it's good. Just exactly what you said, Andrew. It's good. It's objectively good. The style is good. And I think right now we're coming into a phase where that style, you know, probably going back a few years even, that style is really mainstream. That nifty 80s style is kind of peaking right now. And it's comfortable to wear. It looks good. It tells the time well. It does things well. It does the things you want it to do. My eight-year-old has been wearing it. He lost it for a little bit. I took it away because it went through the washer and the dryer. Still runs great. Um, but I took it away because, you know, a responsibility for your things kind of thing. But I was wearing it in the interim after he lost it. And you know, I actually personally don't have an F91. I had an F91. I gave it to my, at the time, eight-year-old who's now 10. I haven't seen it in some time. So who knows if it still exists. But I have an F-84, which is a variation on the F-91. I like it better for a number of reasons. It has lugs primarily, and it's different. Both of those things are true. But really, that's... It's the F-91. It's the F-91. It's a subset of the F-91. And I wear it. I wear it. I genuinely wear it. I don't wear it to be ironic. I wear it because it's cool. And I've got it on a... Well, I had it on the Omega. No, it wasn't the Omega. I had it on a very expensive. Oh, I know what it was. It was a Supreme. So not very expensive, but a Supreme, a Supreme NATO. This slot for me was almost occupied by the Casio world timer. Um, I think this is a much easier pick. This is the, this is the pick though, right? The world timer is a little bit more of a, of a downstream of other cooler things. It's cool because it's a rip off of something that was cooler. |
| Andrew | Tell me about the Santos. |
| Everett | Santos. You own it, so I give you the opportunity to talk. I own it, right? This is one of the most, this is a watch on every list, right? This is an iconic watch. Yes. Like the Speedmaster for me, this is your Speedmaster. Very much so. You know, its history, and maybe there's some legend associated with its history at this point, is phenomenal. The story behind it is terrific. It's the first square watch. It's the second square watch that I saw that I was like, Oh, okay. Okay. I can maybe do this. It's the first watch that when I put it on, I like lamented that I didn't own it. Right. Cause you know, you get a watch in the mail and you're super excited about it. You, it wouldn't really even matter how it fit for the first several weeks because you're just enamored. This watch, I put it on somebody else's and I said, I must have this. It was Evans, wasn't it? Yeah. You're terrific. Yep. It was his. And I said, Oh no, I need to have this watch. And I have that just, this is my first big purchase watch. Like I'm sometimes a little embarrassed by owning this watch. You know, recently somebody, I was wearing it and somebody's like, Oh, what is that? |
| Andrew | And I was like, Oh, it's a watch. |
| Everett | Like, let me see it. And I was in there like, it's Cartier. I was like, yeah, Like, is it expensive? Yeah. Ish. I got a good deal though. That you did? And I'm like, how much? And I was like, no, I'm not going to say that. I like it. The web, you have an internet in your phone. You can look that up. But I love it. And I don't know why I wasn't, I don't know. There's some things around that, but this, this watch kind of opened my eyes and my, uh, emotional fortitude to like, if you, if you can buy it and you love it and you're not going to like not pay your mortgage in order to buy it, it's okay. Cause you love it. Yeah. And that's what matters. I love that watch. I wear that watch a ton. I regret that I can't wear that watch every second of the day. Yeah. Well, and, and you, you've talked a little bit about this, that the, There's some legend around this watch, but I do think that it's true-ish. So, so kind of inspired by a square pocket watch created by Cartier. It was designed hand in hand with an aviator to be a legible watch while he's flying. It's one of the first wrist watches worn by men. Like there's, there's things happening here in this point in history when this watch is designed. And it's remained largely unchanged. And when we look back at this watch, I think there's a lot of things that you could look at to say, oh, well, this perhaps exists in the common parlance and lexicon of watches because of the Santos, you know, the hands. the numerals, the screw bezel, not to say that Cartier necessarily invented any of these things with this watch. But so many, so much of those things predate all these other things that have happened. That's right. This was the original, this was the original masculine sport watch, and it has inspired the rest of watches in ways that I don't actually think we can truly fathom on this show, maybe someone smarter than us, perhaps Eric Wind could come back and tell us all about this. I'm ready for his hot take on it. But this is truly one of the most iconic watches that's ever been created. Without any doubt. There's no argument for me on this. I picked it a little bit lower on my list. You've picked it higher. That's fine. Cause it was, it's, it's had such an impact on me that I bought it. I was prepared to buy it at, you know, New York sales tax prices. Yeah. That's the impact that it had on me. Next in this category, I have the Tag Heuer Monaco. This is one of the first times that I saw a watch that I was like, Oh, that's weird. It's very different, but it works and I love it. And I still, to this day, absolutely love the Monaco. every single homage that has ever been created to it because that square case, those pushers on it, that it's just, it's so unapologetically unique and well-executed. That's like, in my mind, to be able to, in this industry, create something that's so different and so long standing, that's the kind of the hope for the industry, right? That I can be different. I can do the thing. And if I do it right, it's gonna stand. And I just, I love the Monaco. A Monaco will be in my watch box. I don't think this is a controversial pick. I think this is on most of the iconic watch list. It's not gonna make my list. It's at your list at the five position. This is, I think for me, this is a bit of a hard one. And the reason I think it's a bit of a hard one is because I think this watch stands on such an island. So, you know, there are a few watches. The Crash for me is one of them. I could never put the Crash on the list because the Crash hasn't inspired anything else, right? The Monaco is one of them. There's a handful of watches that I think are so out there that they really aren't even replicated because it's like that is the one. No, obviously people have made Monaco's Monaco's perhaps a little bit more mainstream than the crash. People have also made crashes, right? So both of these watches kind of fall in that same place where you can't really get too close to them. without aping them. And it's hard to see this design get pushed too much into mainstream watches, which is not to say it hasn't inspired other things, certainly. But I think this watch is in and of itself something a little bit different. Maybe that makes it iconic. The Monaco and the Santos, these square cases that paved the way for, you know, the square G for the Like this acceptance of square watches. I would say if you said that same thing about the Cartier Santos, I'd say 100% agree. I'm maybe not sure I see it with the Monaco. I do think the Monaco is amazing. I think it's beautiful. I think it deserves its place. For me, it just didn't fit. It's an icon, but it's not one of the icons for me. This is a pinnacle for me. This is a watch that I'll own. And clearly, universally beloved Paul Newman. We know about this watch. Yeah, I'll own one. Yeah, excuse me. Not Paul Newman, Steve McQueen. Steve McQueen. We know about this watch. I don't begrudge it being on your list, certainly for a minute. Good choice. Feels like you do. Not at all. Okay, 432 quickly. Okay. The Seiko Sarb. Okay. The Explorer 1. The Rolex Explorer 1. And the Seiko 5000 square G. And I've got a Patek Philippe Nautilus. I had a Nautilus on and off my list. It kind of like migrated up and down and then got pushed away. I've got a G-Shock 5k square at 3. And at two, I've got an SKX007. Now, this pick, these four, three, two picks, obviously saving our top picks for the last discussion, we've got some interesting, I think we've got a little bit of interesting parody on these two lists. Obviously, you've got the Explorer up there. That's a watch that I specifically left off my list in lieu of other things. But you had on the list as an alternate I think even the Saab kind of fits in that, but there's a reason for the difference here. And here I've got the Seiko SKX, which everybody knows is not going to be on your list. You've got the Saab. I've got the Nautilus here. We've both got the Square G's, which does not make too many iconic watch lists. Sitting here, there's some, I think some, some, parallel thought processes going on. And I'm wondering if maybe as opposed to talking about these watches, we're, we're sort of like in the place where the watches speak for themselves, uh, and looking at our various choices. So again, you SARB Explorer Square G actually, you will have to defend the SARB a little bit. I'm going to have to. Me, the Nautilus, the G and the SKX, What do you see with these pics and what do you think that says about us? So your, your pics, they're not nearly as cohesive as mine. I think as I get, as I, as I ascended my list, they kind of started to come down to the same things. The things that like the tip of the spear, if you will, of like my number one important things that I want in a watch. The things that have not just inspired me, but have kind of solidified themselves as the things that I want out of a watch. We've got a little bit of chaos going on over here. It's true. |
| Andrew | On your side. |
| Everett | I've got a $40,000 watch, nay $190. I've got a $60 watch and I've got... What was a $100 watch. A $200, yeah, what was a $200 watch? So I'm interested for your thinking here. |
| Andrew | Yeah. |
| Everett | Mine kind of makes sense. I think anyone who hears my list is like, oh, that tracks. Yeah, well, so we'll come back to the Saab for a sec. We're going to move past the Saab for a second because I do think you have to defend that watch. We are going to come back to that and I'm okay with it. So here for me, my thinking, well, I'll just tell you my thinking on each watch. So the Nautilus, I do think the Nautilus is maybe the greatest watch ever made. I'm going to say it. Uh, you, you know, you, you've got all the things going for it. You've got this absolutely perfect brand in Patek Philippe. You've got like one of the most, if not universally the most revered designer of all time. You've got, it really, I want, I feel. Second to none manufacturing finishing processes. I feel like the Nautilus is a refinement and an improvement on the Royal Oak. Famously, Genta designs the Royal Oak for Adam RPK, and then later, just a few years later, designs the Nautilus for Patek. For me... You'd think an NDA would have prevented that. For me, there's no competition, whereas the Royal Oak is a lovely watch in its own right. It is not as cohesive, it is not as elegant, it is not as cool, and it is not as good. It's not as refined as the Nautilus. He's refining his process. The Nautilus is, at least in its modern iteration, impossibly thin, impossibly luxurious, and impossibly obtained because it is so fantastic. Royal Oak also has its own place. But this is the watch for me. This is the watch all other watches in some way are trying to be all other steel sports watches, I should say. In some way, they're all trying to be the Nautilus. Some of them more closely than others. Yes. But there's something about this watch that is almost impossible to put in words. And it's a surprisingly complex watch. You look at the top down on this thing, and it would be very easy to underestimate how complex this watch is. You'll look at the mid case from the profile, and it's like, oh my God, there's a lot going on here. And they do it all in like nine millimeters or whatever it is. It is the pinnacle of watches. Have you ever handled an Anomalous? No. It is for me, the pinnacle of watches, I put it at four, right? Because it's, I think, a little hard to put a watch that you can't get any higher than that. I mean, you could get it, again, if you're a Saudi Arabian prince. Or if you're willing to mortgage your house. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't mortgage my house and get this. Like, I don't have enough equity. That's fair. We could both. Probably mortgage our houses. You know, with that said, I'm wearing, I'm wearing a Amante Triumph today. Amante Triumph is not a Nautilus homage. However, it sure the fuck is. Amante Triumph is a Nautilus homage. All steel sports watches are trying to be this watch. Thinner, sexier, more better. Yes. So that's why I don't think I need to defend it any more than that. I'll move on. G-Shock, it's too easy. Do we need to talk about this? I don't think so. This is it, man. The G-Shock Square. I'm sorry. If you don't appreciate that watch, you're not actually into watches. You're broken. I own one. |
| Andrew | Who hurt you as a child? |
| Everett | You own a couple. Two at least. No, I own two. I own two. Look, this is a watch, perhaps more than any other watch that's ever been made, that's changed the way we do watches. |
| Andrew | Yeah. |
| Everett | And then the SKX, I felt a little weird about this watch. This is kind of a little bit hard to defend, I think. It's not. And I'll tell you why. Okay. Thank you. I'm going to come back to it. The people who are into watches now, or at least I'll change that. The people who have come into watches in say the last 12 years. So our cohort of watch lovers, especially people in our financial positions. When we came in, we're talking about the affordables crowd, the F 71 crowd of 2013. Okay. We all understood what the SKX was. Yes. That was the entry level serious watch. And it's the, I don't feel bad at all. And I don't even think you would disagree with me. No, certainly it was the watch. And it was such a dude that it not only was the target of the newly minted watch person, but it also in and of itself in and of itself and by its very existence, inspired people who otherwise wouldn't have become watch people to become watch people. It was a piece of steel, a tangible piece of steel entrapment, to use a legal term. The SKX007 did things for our generation that no other watch did, right? There were other watches that were better always. There were other watches that were... Worse and more affordable. Yes, yes, or better and more affordable. It's not a special watch except that it's so good. I've written an article about the SKX and why it's good and why it was good for me, both subjectively and more objectively, right? I think that watch has defined a generation of watch people. And so I'm going to put it at number two and I'm not going to feel bad about it because I think, but for number one on my list, that watch has been a bigger part of the community that I find myself in than any other watch. Which is not to say the community at large, but the community I find myself in. Do you get that distinction? Yeah. That's very much the same position I have for the Saab. It's not a dive watch. It's not the same spec. At the time, for what, 250 to 400 bucks, depending on when you could find it. Yeah, I think 350. This is a refined, well-specced, beautiful sport watch where you're not going to find the same kind of case detail. For me, the Saab was the first step into the emotional tolerance for what good costs. And when you got the Saab at like 400 bucks, and you got it on your wrist, or you're handling it, you immediately understand the difference that that $400 to $1,000 jump makes. Because up to that point, you've got one, two, maybe three, $200 watches. And you're like, okay, steal yourself. I'm going to do it. I'm going to talk to the wife. I'm going to do it. I'm going to spend the 400 bucks. Oh, it hurts. And you buy it and you get it. And you're looking at them side by side and you're like, just blown away by the difference in finishing quality and comfort. It feels soft when you touch it. Steel shouldn't feel soft. It looks soft too. But the sarb feels and wears soft. It looks soft. And it was my first dip my toes into expensive shit. I'm like, okay, I get it. I get it. Now I'm going to buy a Manta, right? It's the gateway. It was Seiko providing that bridge to understand why you should pay Grand Seiko prices for Grand Seiko, why you should pay that $2,000, $3,000 price point, because you've seen the jump. You've seen what $200 can do. Well, and I will say to your point, my Manta Triumph that I'm wearing right now directly, like within the same weekend, within about five hours, replaced, replaced my sub, right? Or my sub, excuse me, not my sub. Not your sub, yeah. You know, so to your point, I think you're right. The Manta Triumph obviously did not make either of our lists. I don't think it's in this conversation, but that is, There's something to be said for that. And I'm wearing a commuter, right? Which is a descendant of the SARB. Of the, no, I would say even of the Explorer. I don't think it's related to the SARB. I think Oyster Perpetual for your commuter. Okay, I accept. And when we're talking about iconic watches, I probably would give the nod to the Oyster Perpetual in this spot. But I can appreciate your explanation. I don't even disagree with it. That for a lot of people, Perhaps in the same way that the SKX is part of what I see as the cultural legacy, I think the Saab kind of fits. I don't think it's as good as the SKX, and I don't think it fits on this list. You're wrong. But I can understand your argument. The Saab is the gateway drug. And I'm not going to fight you. And there's a reason why now Saabs are going for $1,000. $500 all day. I've seen them on Chrome 24 for $1,000. Considered selling it. You have the 035? I have the white one, I don't know what the, yeah, it's the 3.5, yeah. Because the 3.3 is the black. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think perhaps if I had purchased an 0.33 instead of a 3.5, I may still have it. I also still have dibs on my Saab. I've got a right of first refusal, contractual right of first refusal on that watch. But I've thought about buying a 3.3 dial for mine so I can wear it interchangeably. I did decide eventually that I was good. I'm good. I still wear mine. I have it on, uh, on the Alpinist bracelet though. Cause the SAR bracelet was, but the Alpinist bracelet being a Prospex was slightly upgraded. |
| Andrew | Yeah. |
| Everett | And it's terrific. So as someone who has done a lot of dial and hand changes, and even if you're a modder, there's a couple of people that we talk to pretty regularly who have modded more watches than I've changed dials, but I think I have changed more dials than just about anybody who's not a watch brand owner, I'm going to make a recommendation to you. Don't get a dial. Get a movement dial and hands. And just swap out the whole thing. Yes. That's my recommendation to you. If you're going to do that, do it that way. Be like a hundred bucks. Yeah, well, it's a six hour movement, so it's probably you might spend 120, but if you're going to do it, do that. OK, because that changes a hand set on the SAR, man. Oh, my gosh. I didn't get into that. It's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. It's it had it like it had all of the things that you wanted in a luxury watch, but in an affordable price point and and it's like, hey, you want to spend more on a watch. You love this watch, but you know it can be better now. I'm going to quickly talk about this SKX SARB distinction for just one more second. Okay. And I'm going to say the SARB sort of sits alone. There's a lot of watches who have done SARB things, but the SARB, I think, and I've said on this show, I think the SARB has some design elements that are drastically underrated. That ledge, that finished ledge that sits on top of the mid case. The stepped case. The handset on that watch is fantastic. As to the XKX, I think that there's design elements that are just so uniquely Seiko. Both of these watches do similar things. I think the SARB, when you look at watches like perhaps the Snowflake, there's a few other Seiko adjacent watches. that I would say could be swapped in there. I think the SKX, you could easily say the Turtle should be in that spot. You could easily say something, you know, more classic, you know, 62 Mas, obviously, or, you know, the 150 meter predecessor to the SKX, which I'm blanking on the name. There's a handful of watches that could be subbed in for these, but for our part, I think we've done a good job These are the two, the SARB and the SKX. These are the two for our worldview that fit there. So well done. Yeah. I think it's time to move on to number one. Yeah. Which shocking. We picked the same number one. It is the number one. It's not surprising. And what's interesting is I actually don't even like this watch that much. Do we need to even say the watch? Could we perhaps just talk about it adjacently without actually saying what it is? So I had a dream the other night. And I texted the guys about it because it was a weird dream. I don't remember dreams, uh, ever. Like it's unusual for me. I told my wife and she was like, wait, you remembered a dream? I was like, yeah, no, that is weird. That's how weird this dream was. I'm like sitting on my couch and I'm, you know, surfing the internet on my phone. I come across this watch. I like look over at my wife. |
| Andrew | I like look down, look at my wife, look down. |
| Everett | buy this watch, like you have to go like in my dream, I walk to the key bowl where my wallet lives, pull out my card, punch it in. Like this dream was so vivid that I checked to make sure that you hadn't actually done it, that I hadn't actually done this. I didn't. Um, but I get this, you know, I do it. I don't say anything. Three days later, the watch shows up, I'm wearing it. And I was like, that's new. I was like, Oh yeah, I just got it. She's like, how much did it cost? I'm like 13,000. She's like, Oh, okay. I was like, should do this more often. Hmm. Interesting. Uh, and then I like, I don't know. I went, I, the dream ended and I woke up the next morning and I was like, man, that actually played well. I wonder how it would play in real life. I didn't do it. Because honestly, like this isn't a do it watch for me, right? Everyone loves this watch. This is the iconic watch. It's the number one watch on every list. Everyone loves it. So just to spit it out there, we were of course talking about the Rolex Submariner, the most popular watch on earth, the most commonly purchased watch by non-watch people and watch people alike. This is it. This is the most iconic watch. I think if you argue that anything is more iconic than this right now in 2023, you're smoking. You're just wrong. This is it, right? The entire watch modding community was raised on the Rolex Submariner. There have been, gosh, dozens, hundreds? Thousands. There have been many, many, many watch brands who have gained an entire not small amount of financial capital based on this watch. I'm looking at you, Squala. I'm looking at you, uh... Tudor. Well, Tudor doesn't really count. Uh, uh, no, what's the... Steinhardt. Yeah. I'm looking at you, Gnomon, even though you're not responsible for any of this. This is... Gnomnom. Gnomnom. Yeah. This is the watch. This is the watch, right? It's the watch that all others are compared against, even though it's not the original, right? When I was looking at this, I was like, maybe the 50 Fathoms is more appropriate, because it's a predecessor. But it's not more appropriate, because this is the survivor. This is the one that all other watches are compared against. Judged against all other dive watches. Certainly. Right. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, but that's a reasonable score. Yeah. There's something about the sub that has caused it to be the entire focus of many people's watch experience. I am. friends with a fella who is not a watch guy. He is a nice things guy though. He has a wife who also makes a bunch of money. He makes a bunch of money, disposable income, no kids. He's got all the cool shit. Dude has a sub. This is the watch that you're most likely to see on the wrist of someone who doesn't know what watch they have. They know they have a Rolex. And that is all. And that's all. And they made the right choice. Yeah. Because it is simultaneously the most iconic watch, but also the most tool watch of all tool watches. The tool watch. You know, they just pulled one out of the... What ocean surrounds Australia? Is that Pacific still? Yes. The whole of Australia is Pacific Ocean? I believe so. Is it Indian Ocean up in the northwest? Maybe. Yeah, it might be. Well, in the southeast of Australia is the Pacific Ocean. They just pulled one out of the Pacific Ocean. They see they returned it to the guy. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, that's cool. And it's cool. And it was still fucking right. It's the tool watch of all tool watches. That's what it was designed for. It found this place in luxury and in status and thus made it unobtainium for us normal people. But it's the thing. It's the one. I, you know, I wouldn't kick it out of bed. I don't, I would never buy one even at retail price. Cause it's not, it's just not my thing. I would buy it at retail. Cause just to, to flip it. Yeah. Fucker. No, I'd buy it and keep it. Okay. Quickly. I'm going to run through some, some watches that didn't make our list that maybe should have, uh, Zenith El Primero. Yeah. The El Primero was on and off mine. The Seawolf by Zodiac. The Royal Oak was on and off mine. The Rolex Daytona. The Daytona was on and off mine. Tag Heuer Carrera. Carrera was on and off mine. GMT-Master. GMT-Master never quite made it mine. And I think that the GMT-Master has its own place, but I also think it's sub-adjacent. A lot of watches from these higher-end brands the perpetual calendar chronograph from Patek, the Calatrava from Patek. No Panerai's made our list. And I think that's surprising. Panerai has its own place in the world of watches. The BR05 was a consideration, but it just couldn't do it for me. Yeah, I think the BR05 is a fantastic pick, doesn't make the list. Alpine Eagle actually was a consideration for me. And I'm surprised it wasn't on your list. The Seamaster 300 dive watch. Seamaster was another one, yeah. Every single wrist, every single list in the history of iconic watch lists has had a JLC reversal. I don't think it was a genuine concern for either one of us. Tank was actually one that I struggled against. Makes every list, didn't make our lists. IWC Big Pilot. Or IWC Pilot's Watch. The only place that could have made for me was interchangeable with the Navitimer, but I felt the Navitimer was was more influential to me. The Breguet type watches didn't make the list. 50 Fathoms, we've talked about it, didn't make the list. The 62 Moss. Royal Oak. 62 Moss, I agree with you, that could have been. And any number of Langas. We know who we are and we don't want to talk about things that we aren't prepared to talk about. And I think these I think we've done a good job of capturing. So so I don't know. I didn't count the amount of unique watches. We didn't even talk about brick today. I didn't count the amount of unique watches. If I had to guess, I think it's probably something like 14 to 16 watches because unique watches. Right. Like I thought about the pro plough and I was like, I just can't do it. Or the Ripley or or that ilk of just like it's different and it's cool, but it makes sense. And it's just not. It's not the thing we're trying to do. I think we've done a pretty good job and I think we've sort of distilled it to a reasonable set of watches. Love to hear your thoughts. Don't hesitate to reach out. Um, but yeah, that's it. You've heard the lists. We didn't do one list. We did two lists. I think we would have perhaps killed each other with knives if we had forced each other to agree. Uh, there'd have been blood. Uh, but that's it. And I think we did a good job and I'm happy with it. And with that, I'm going to, yeah, no, I did a good job. You were adequate. Uh, with that, I think we're going to move on. And in that vein, I'll ask you, Andrew, other things, what do you have? I came unprepared. Kidding. I watched a television show over my weekend. Two seasons of it. Is that good? I'm late to the party on this. I watched the bear. Oh yeah. Have you watched the bear? I've watched season one and have been waiting on season two. I just finished it. It is terrific. Uh, one thing that I take issue with, uh, a lot of the reviews, they talk about like all of the delicious food you're going to see and like, as your mouth watering, watching the bear yet. Uh, don't get excited about that because that is not there. It's not that show. It's not that show. The food is actually the least supporting role. Yeah. This is a television show on FX. It's available on Hulu, two seasons, so perfectly bingeable. And it is a kind of comedy, we'll call it, about a fella. who is a world-class chef who, in the midst of family tragedy, has returned home to run his deceased brothers just in the gutter-failing shitty sandwich shop in the ghetto in Chicago. Yeah. Starring Jeremy Allen White from Shameless, who's fantastic, who completely reprises his character from Shameless. |
| Andrew | Yes. |
| Everett | He's got a different name. Yes. And it is beautiful. It is one of the, like one of the, you watch these shows and you're like, Oh, I, you know, I kind of wish I, like, I want to see better character development and they find a way to develop characters in this and people who you should probably not like super anti-hero, but they, Not anti-hero in the classic sense, but a really great development on anti-hero. They show you why they are the way that they are, and as a result, you're okay with it. Yeah. It's this beautiful human story of this dude who's just in it, and all the people in his just vortex of chaos trying to make something work. And it, I was like nigh on emotional watching the show. It was just beautiful. And I cannot wait for season three. There's two seasons available right now on Hulu. It's up for a ton of Emmys and it's like, I, like I said, I'm late to the party. Right. Also, by the way, saving private Ryan was a good movie. Um, uh, yeah, I don't think you're that late. Uh, it premiered last year, right? So it's a two year old show. Season two just ended. All of season two is available on Hulu. So I was like, I got two seasons to bend. I can get on with this. Um, it was a really good use of my time. |
| Andrew | Yeah. |
| Everett | It's, it's a, just a really beautiful show. The human, the, the, they, they do a really good job balancing progressing the story against telling the story. You know, it's got great characters. In particular, this young actor named, I think it's Ayo Edebiri. I was watching the most recent season of Black Mirror. I do not like it. Oh boy. I was watching the latest season of Black Mirror with, I think, the best episode of the season, perhaps the second best episode Joan is awful. And there is one character in particular in that episode who was played by Ayo Adebiri. And the character is so good. And I was like, where do I know that? I know this lady. Where do I know her from? And it took me a while to figure it out that I know her from, that I know her from The Bear. And she is so good. She's one of these, she's one of these actors. that has the ability to shut everybody else down with the way she communicates. She's got this communication style that is so rare that even when she's acting, she can say a line and everybody's like, all right, I got it. And you at home are like, yep, I got it. The actors in that show in the bear, I think are what really push it out there. They are so phenomenal. There is a very very recognizable and well-known actor in that show that took me watching it with my wife to say, is that, is that? And I was like, no, it's not. It's definitely not. No, I don't accept. And I went to IMDb to, to find that it was in fact that very well-known actor. You're talking about the bear? Yes. Who are you talking about? I'm not going to say it on air because I want people to enjoy that same surprise that I have. Are you talking about Brat Pack? No. Okay. Uh, yeah. Great pick. Great pick. I've got another thing. I loved it. Do me. I've got another thing. Uh, this is a weird one for me. I don't. Is it a sex toy? It is. Shit. No. I recently You know, you and I are both the same way, right? We were like, you know what? I'm in the mood for X. Yep. Right. And then we like, we'll do a little, a little mini hunt. We'll read some, we'll read some forum posts, some, some rankings, and they'll go out and buy a thing. I have, I have read a handful of graphic novels. A lot of the players, the biggies, the top tens, And I was looking for something just a little bit different than anything I've ever read. And there's a, there's a graphic novel that had never, like I'd heard of it, but it had never, it's just never been the one, right? It's kind of like adjacent to these lists. It's on some of the lists, but it's not on others. And it just looked weird and dumb. That's, that intrigues me. Yeah. So when it makes half the lists, I'm like, okay, there's something here. This is a graphic novel made by one of the British Invasion 1980s comic book authors. You know, one of these guys that came in the wake of Alan Moore with Swamp Thing and The Watchmen. His name is Grant Morrison. He is a fantastic and very well-revered comic book author. But he made a series in the 80s called Animal Man. And the premise is as stupid as the character name. It is a fellow who is kind of a normal dude and normal in some really normal ways. He's married, he's sort of struggling for work, he's got two kids, he's just a bro. He is you or me, Andrew. But he's got this ability to connect with animals and to take on their power. It is the dumbest golden age comic book That makes for a good graphic novel though. And Grant Morrison took this character and when you read about it, you're like, yeah, no. So it's got this like PETA angle and Grant Morrison actually is famously a sort of woke animal rights guy. And so I'm reading this and I'm like, there's too much going on here. I'm not going to do it. So I actually picked up the omnibus of the Grant Morrison run of Animal Man. And I picked it up on Saturday morning. Is it Omnibus 1? No. Or is it Animal Man? It is the Animal Man, the entire Omnibus, the entire 1 through 26 Grant Morrison run in hardcover. I just on a total impulse bought this thing. I didn't impulse buy it, but I bought it kind of on a whim. A little flyer. A little bit of a flyer thinking, you know what, I'll sort of, I'll pick it up and put it down and maybe it'll be good, maybe it'll be not. I bought this thing on Saturday. I got home about 3.30 on Saturday and sat in my front room and read all 26 issues without stopping until about 12.05. And oh my God, I think this is the greatest graphic novel I've ever read. And I haven't read them all. You were able to sit undisturbed for that long? The kids were like, we had dinner, the kids were watching television shows. I'm in the front room. And so I was there and I was present, but I also just read this thing and it was a magical day. Okay. So look, here's what I'm going to say about this. This, I think, so the art is not the best. No, it's eighties. Graphic novel. It's 80s graphic novel, but even in the context of the 80s, I mean, the 80s is, I think for me, especially this period of the 80s, kind of that late 80s, like you have some of the best comic book art out there coming out at this time. This isn't it. The art is not good, but the writing. Oh my God. He's so Grant Morrison does two things. One, he does an episodic, right? So each issue is a story in and of itself. But the character arc, starting with the fifth episode, the fifth issue, which is actually, I think it's called the Coyote Gospel and turns out unbeknownst to me, one of the most famous comic books ever written. And you read it and you're like, well, that was cool and interesting, but what, what? And then you get to the end of this thing and you're like, oh my God. It's a microcosm of the entire series. It is really good. If you're into graphic novels, if you're into comic books and you haven't read the Grant Morrison run of the animal man, I'm going to say stop what you're doing and figure it out because I was blown away. I've read the, I've read the watchman. I've read swamp thing. I've read, uh, the dark night returns. I've read all, not all, but most of the players in this conversation haven't read this one. And I can't believe I waited so long. It is so good. It's a good pick. Yeah, that's it. That's what I got. You're telling people to read. I'm like, Hey, watch television. I mean, it's comic books, right? It's the downfall of society. So, and now we watch television. Andrew, did we do it? Are we done as usual? Perfect episode. Hey guys, thanks for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the watch clicker podcast. 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