Episode 243 - Interview With Ken Lam of Arken

Published on Wed, 21 Jun 2023 21:59:28 -0700

Synopsis

The podcast features a conversation with Ken Lamb, the owner and designer of Arken Watch Company, about his new watch release, the Altarum. They discuss the design process, manufacturing challenges, and the unique GMT complication that Lamb developed using a modified Miyota 9015 movement. Lamb also talks about his brand's design language, the use of titanium, and his efforts to create an exclusive experience for early customers. The hosts also share some personal anecdotes and recommendations, including making homemade buffalo sauce, buying a custom baseball bat, and reading the book "Shoe Dog" by Phil Knight.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 and 20 The Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Everett	I'm I'm doing all right, man. I'm a little tired. I'm a little tired. Yesterday, we're up a little late. Yesterday was like 15 beer day and today was like a normal work day. Oh, that's a hard turn. And now it's late. Yeah, it's a hard turnaround. So I'm doing well, but I'm, I'm, I'm like a little thin. Yeah. Just dragging a little bit. Just a touch, but no, I'm really good. Actually. I'm good. It's been a good day. It was a good weekend. It was a productive weekend. Super fun. And as you know, 15 beer days where you are completely functional the entire time are usually good days.
Andrew	They're always a good day.
Andrew	Yeah. Cause you're doing something fun. You're grilling. You're playing golf. You're doing something where it's socially and like morally appropriate to be drinking a beer at 8 a.m. because to have 15 beers in a day and remain functional, you got to start between like eight and nine.
Everett	Yeah, correct. Correctamundo.
Andrew	But yeah, I'm doing really well.
Everett	Andrew, how are you doing?
Andrew	I am good. It was a little bit of a weird weekend. Sam was out of town, so I was solo with the kids for my weekend. They were with her parents for the normal weekend. So just a little bit of an unusual weekend heaven. you know, Sam being gone, the kids kind of gone and then back and, but it good. Yesterday I made some ribs, two racks on the, on the smoker. Cause that's what the kids wanted. Delightful. So I'm good. You know, weather's been a little weird. I got no complaints. Very little going on in my life right now.
Everett	Just the way to do it, man. But today you have something going on in your life because we're talking about watches. And drinking beer. And we've got a repeat guest. I always like these episodes. I was like these episodes, especially one like this where we had someone on in the infancy of their watch project, whatever that may be. And then to several years later, come back, revisit the issue, have this person on now grizzled from the industry. more experienced, knows what's actually happening, has seen the sausage made, has in fact made the sausage. It's always a fun show. So without further ado, I would like to introduce once again. To welcome back. To welcome back Ken Lamb, owner, designer, CEO, perhaps even the founder not to intimidate anybody of Ark & Watch Company, Ken Lamb. Ken, how are you?
Ken Lamb	Hi, guys. I'm good. Thanks. How are you guys?
Everett	Super good. Welcome back.
Ken Lamb	Thank you. Thanks for having me back.
Everett	Yeah, of course. And Ken, you reached out to us. We talked about your new release that was just announced, what, in the last two weeks?
Ken Lamb	Yeah. The announcement was June 1.
Everett	And you reached out to us and said, Hey guys, I've been messaging you on your Instagram.
Ken Lamb	Yeah.
Andrew	Which is now primarily monitored by a drug addict.
Everett	Or perhaps just unmonitored. I mean, that is the worst thing about that page is that it just exists. You can send it messages, You can talk to it.
Andrew	You can, you can tag it. It sure as shit better don't be talking back though. Cause if it is, we have problems.
Everett	And that will be the status of that page for forever. As far as I can tell. Um, it may get purged at some point. I don't know how that works, but.
Ken Lamb	I have been messaging it like, like going way back. Like I'd sent messages to it like a long time ago. You were like, these guys are dicks. Yeah.
Everett	The 40 and 20, he's like, yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. The 40 and 20 guys just, he still thinks it.
Ken Lamb	Like, did I do something wrong? Like, did I say something wrong in the last episode or?
Everett	Yeah. Not at all. We're just ghost people now.
Andrew	Yeah. That's the thing that we were known for actually.
Everett	Glad we connected. I don't know how you made the connection, but I am glad. I am glad we connected. I think Ken, I'm going to, for the benefit of the audience at home, Ken is drinking, I believe tea. out of a frothing pitcher?
Ken Lamb	Um, well, it's, it's like, um, it's, it's one of those like metal. Okay.
Everett	So that's actually, it looked to me, it looked to me like a frothing pitcher.
Andrew	I agree on just like the motion through. I was like, that, that's an interesting choice, man.
Everett	Fantastic.
Ken Lamb	Got a whole set of them. I found it in like a charity shop. It was like really, really cheap. It was like 50 P and I was like, Oh, cool. So Snap that up.
Andrew	That sounds expensive.
Ken Lamb	Uh, 50, 50 feet. Yeah. 50 P that's like, that's like a dollar, right?
Everett	$7 American.
Andrew	No, I think it's just the terminology makes it sound expensive.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. More premium 50 P's like 50 premium.
Everett	I think that's what like 75 cents, maybe 65 cents. Yeah.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Yeah.
Everett	Fair enough. So not that much money. No, no, no. Affordable. Yeah. It's like when you go to Mexico and they're like, that's going to be 185 pesos. And you're like, fuck, I'm broke. They're like, oh no, I'm good.
Andrew	Oh, here's 60 cents.
Everett	So can we hand, so you reached out to me, we had brought up, I think on the very last episode, we brought up your new release, the Arkham Alteron, which is, we're going to get into, we're going to get into, but to say the least, a pretty cool release. I think both Andrew and I, pretty stoked on it, pretty stoked on the design, pretty stoked on the evolution of what you've done, starting with the instrumentum and coming here. But yeah, you reached out and said, kind words, guys. I've been trying to get a hold of you for two years, you sons of bitches. And I asked you to come back on the show and here you are.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Well, thanks for having me back. Yeah, I reached out because I was listening to the episode and it came up and I was like, wait a minute, like I've sent you guys a message because I was going to send you the press kit before the announcement because I wanted to show you guys. And I was like, so they know I'm still around. So there's got to be some reason for this. So, yeah, I searched it on Instagram and then two accounts came up and I was like, oh, OK, maybe there's something happening here. So I decided to message the other one. And sure enough, he replied straight away.
Andrew	So, yeah.
Ken Lamb	Here we are.
Andrew	Maybe we should pay for the blue check on the one that works.
Everett	Yeah. I mean, if somebody has thoughts about what to do about this, getting the account back is not going to happen. But if there's it's got to be some way that we can communicate this to people. I mean, the other thing is the new page only has like 75 followers and the old one is still like, I don't know, gaining followers. Right.
Andrew	Yeah.
Ken Lamb	I think that the new one looks suspicious because like There's less followers. Sure. So maybe that's why you're probably getting this kind of move over.
Everett	You know, it is what it is. Yeah. I've, I've lost all the sleep I'm going to lose over it. Oh no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a good thing. That's liberating. Like I'm done losing sleep over it.
Andrew	So, so let's, yeah, we, we know you definitely
Everett	So let's talk. So let's talk. So the last time we had you on the show, you had just really announced the instrumentum. You were working on it. Prototypes had been circulated. You had finalized design and had gone live. You then sold a bucket load of instrumentums. I think one of the more exciting releases of 2021, both in terms of price, in terms of the audacity of the design, Um, and just what you were doing. I think everybody recognized this is different and it's cool because it's different. It's cool because it's cool and more so because it's different. How did things go with your first production?
Ken Lamb	Um, I mean, I think the, the difficult thing was like, we were still experiencing the after effects of like COVID.
Andrew	Yeah.
Ken Lamb	So
Andrew	2021 we're still like in it. Like we're still in full throes of supply chain issues.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Yeah. Like, like COVID was still very much like a thing, but then by the time that, like when I'd announced it, we were still kind of in COVID and stuff. But like by the time we came around to like manufacturing, it was just like kind of really bad timing. Cause like all the after effects, like all the consequence of like, factories being closed and this, that, and the other, they'd kind of all kicked in around the time where like, I needed the people, people to be back to work almost. Right. Yeah. So, so there was just like huge delays on that. And then yeah, the main thing that kind of like was a delay was producing the bracelets. Cause it was just like the, the, obviously the demand for, for titanium must've gone up or the tooling for titanium requires so many more, kind of hands on deck that they just weren't. So that took like twice as long as it was expected. So that was kind of the thing that was difficult about the manufacture.
Andrew	When you say twice as long, is it like the difference between one week and two or the difference between three months and six?
Ken Lamb	Oh, it was between like six months and 12. Okay.
Andrew	Cause that's a big difference, right?
Ken Lamb	Oh yeah. True. True. Yeah. It's, it's, yeah, it was massive. Like, like, uh, you know, and, and kind of going through the same things that, you know, you would have went through with, with Foster, just, just putting everything together, right? Like getting it together, boxing it up.
Everett	How do I order a box? How do I design a foam cutout for a box? Like these things that nobody thinks about. Yeah.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Yeah. So, so, um, yeah, those things just kind of took longer than I'd hoped for. But you know, once, once we got there, like once we had the watches and we, we had the braces and stuff and I could kind of send them out, then, then it was relatively smooth after that. Um, yeah.
Everett	When you say, when you say we, obviously you mean you, you've got a pretty big staff at this point, I think too, right?
Ken Lamb	Oh yeah. We got, we got, uh, got loads of people. There's the dog. Yeah. The dog is like licking all the labels to make sure they go down.
Everett	It's still a one man operation. You're doing it yourself. You're, you know, maybe with the help of the occasional loved one, but how has doing what you've done, how was doing this by yourself in practice worked out?
Ken Lamb	Um, not too bad, actually. Like, I think like I'm, I'm, I quite like, sometimes just being able to do kind of busy work and just kind of getting my head down like work, working on stuff. But I think the important thing was that like, it enabled me to keep a lot of the costs down for both like, obviously for the business, but also for the customer at the end. Because like people was asking like, Oh, you know, I've went to a couple like, kind of watch me ups. And I've met a few different like watch brand owners since I'd started. And they always asked me about how are you selling it at this price when they know what the costs are like kind of around the, you know, just in the industry in general. And a lot of it comes down to like, you know, I don't have to pay for like a fulfillment center. And I don't have to pay for, you know, these things that accumulate these additional kind of increments on the end product price. So, so for that, I'm quite like, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with doing that extra work. And if it means that people are happy with the product, and it keeps me in touch with the product as well. Cause I'm the last person to see it go out the door and all that sort of stuff. So.
Andrew	Are you doing all your QC or you, is that something that like the one thing you've outsourced to, to do like movement QC and.
Ken Lamb	Oh yeah. So like I've got to leave the professional work to the professionals in it. Like you've gotta, you gotta have like watchmakers do their thing and check over it and make sure all that sort of stuff's running. So yeah, I don't do that aspect of it, but, I'm probably going to be doing more of the QC stuff. Um, kind of the, not so much the watchmaking stuff, but like parts checking and that sort of stuff. Cause I'm going to go out to Asia and, and, and kind of do all the, that stuff myself this time. Cause last time, obviously we couldn't, we couldn't leave. Right. You couldn't go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. So this time I'm going to be able to do that.
Everett	So tell us a little bit about your experience You know, as I said, making the sausage, seeing the sausage get made, what aspects of taking an idea, right? We talked a lot when you were on the first time about your design process. You know, I'm drawing this piece, I'm iterating this piece, I'm communicating with the factories about what it needs to look like. Tell us a little bit about the things you learned about the production process that maybe surprised you or might surprise people at home?
Ken Lamb	Um, I think the, the, the one thing that surprised me the most, which, you know, in hindsight, I probably could have anticipated, but it's one thing that I've spoke to again, I spoke to other brand owners, um, and they gave me some great advice and stuff. And one of the things I wasn't expecting about was, And you've mentioned it on your episodes about rejection rate. Yeah. Like parts rejection rate and and that sort of stuff. And, you know, you kind of realize that sometimes some of the bigger brands and some of the brands that can charge more, aside from the fact that, you know, they might be able to utilize a factory that has a higher cost. it's also the ability to throw stuff away, right? Like bigger brands have the power to be like, they have enough money to be like, yeah, you've made a hundred. Well, a hundred of these aren't good enough. And it's that ability to, to, to cut the line and, and essentially waste material in, in, in a way. Um, and obviously I wasn't, you know, I wasn't aware of that. And, and, uh, you know, I've, I've, I've been thankful to, to be able to speak to people like, you know, Wes from notice. And he's like, you know, he's a veteran of the space. He knows his stuff. He knows the industry and that sort of stuff. And he kind of like helped me understand that, like, I'm not the only one in this situation. It's kind of like, Oh, you're going through, you're going through that. This is how you can best navigate it. And that sort of thing. So, so yeah.
Everett	And, you know, in that way, one of the things I learned with Foster is you know, A, you have to be ready for that. And B, you just have to get there quicker. There's a lot of these margin cases, right? Where, you know, one of the things that happened to us, we issued, we shipped a bunch of watches that had clasps that were borderline stiff, hard to open. Some of them worse than others. Some of them went to a customer and it was so stiff that you almost needed a tool to break that tension. And it's a really easy fix, right? It's just a flap of metal that catches a bar with tension and friction. And the fix is so easy. You just take a pair of brass pliers and just kind of tweak it back. It's a really very simple operation. There were, you know, fights that we had with customers about like, no, this is an easy fix, right? Take it to your watchmaker. You can ship it back to us. Uh, we'll pay for the shipping. Um, but this is not being, being willing to make those decisions early on, bite the bullet can ultimately save money, even if it feels like it's going to be an economic hardship early on. calling it earlier, you know, like what, we got this problem and we're just going to eat it. Right.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. You gotta, you gotta learn from it and you gotta learn from it. But I think like you said at this early stage, it's, it's about being adaptable, but also being transparent with the customer and being like, look, you know, this, this is a work in progress. It's kind of like a growing of, of both delivering the product, the product itself, my interaction with the, the end user and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, you're right. Like, I mean, you just have to kind of take it as it comes, I guess.
Everett	So looking at the instrumentum, um, I think there's been thousands and thousands of words written about the instrumentum at this point. Um, opinions abound like with anything, you know, I referred to your design as audacious earlier, and I don't think that's a bad word. Certainly. I don't mean in a pejorative sense. Um, It seems like you definitely have settled on a design language that's really neat, right? And certainly that is Arken's design language. And then you've evolved that, I think, for your second release, the Altarum. Can you talk a little bit about what you were aiming to do with the Altarum and how you How you pulled it off, you know, one of our comments last week was this is an Arkin, right? That's the one thing that you notice immediately is that it's an Arkin, even though it's not the same watch. There's some similarities that you can pull through the watch, but it's clearly a different watch. That's clearly an Arkin. How'd you get there?
Ken Lamb	I think the two, the two things that I kind of, um, were focusing on was like the first was, how can I improve or mitigate or kind of like navigate that manufacture process smoother so that the end product can be more refined. So like that was the first thing, right? So that requires obviously simplification and kind of like the order of assembly and all those sorts of things. And then the second thing was, how can I carry over the things that I liked from an aesthetic point of view, but then also have something again, that's a bit more unique that doesn't kind of exist at the price point, like in the way that the instrumentum was when it first came out, there wasn't really that many titanium options. Like there's a lot more titanium options now, even there's, there's loads more now, but, um, those were the two kind of, uh, the main kind of goals. And then the movement thing was, was just like, me taking again, kind of taking a swing in the, you know, taking a shot in the dark and just seeing how far I could, I could run with it. And if it worked, then I would do it. If not, then I'd have to kind of start again and take my time. And I think that's one of the reasons why there is such a, well, it's not a big gap, but there's a bit of a gap between obviously the first one and the second one.
Everett	You mean in terms of time?
Ken Lamb	Yeah. In terms of time. Yeah. Cause obviously that was what, September 20, September, 2021. Obviously, fulfillment took longer than expected, and now we're in 23.
Everett	In terms of your design process for the movement, because I think that's going to be the thing about this watch that probably gets the most interest peaked, is the fact that you took a 9015, a very, very common module, or a very common movement, and incorporated a custom module on that. In the intervening months since you breadwarded this, I assume, Miyota's released their 9075, which is a GMT, a very typical sort of run-of-the-mill GMT movement. You've obviously stuck with your 9015, your custom 9015. Go back in time. I mean, that is a little bit strange for a brand the size of Arken to even attempt this. How did you get it in your head that you wanted to try it and how did you stick through that? What was that like?
Ken Lamb	I'd kind of had designs for, and also like, and also like, how dare you?
Everett	Right.
Ken Lamb	All right. So I had, um, I had multiple designs kind of ready, like already from, from, you know, around the time I was designing the instrumentum anyway. So I knew kind of how I could change the overall architecture to suit different, um, complications or model styles and that sort of thing. And when I'd kind of I'd come across this company that had the ability to kind of like make parts for movements, like replacement parts for movements and stuff. And I'd spoken to them about, you know, this movement has this type of setup. Is it possible for these sorts of things to happen? And they were like, yeah, it's possible. You know, it's possible. You know, you're not inventing a new time traveling complication. It's like, mechanically, it can make sense, right? If you can logically put, you know, gears in perspective, the size of those gears, the clutches and etc. So I started to kind of experiment with that. But this was, this was months before even Seiko had announced their GMT that they did. So I was like, Oh, okay, this is, this is going to be a bit ahead of the the curve in a sense. Because at the time, the only option really for affordable was SOPROG to use it at like that mass scale. And it's not that affordable. Yeah, it's not. Yeah, it's not. So I said, OK, let's go down this because, yeah, the R&D cost will be a lot, but the end like module cost will be way more affordable than a SOPROG movement. So I can actually bring a GMT into the space that is going to be more affordable. So I just kind of went down that rabbit hole. Then when Seiko announced theirs, I was like, oh no. I was like, oh man, this would have saved me so much time and so much effort, but it's okay. Like theirs is, you know, it's a certain thickness. Yeah.
Everett	It's like seven, seven millimeters thick or something.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. You know, it's a certain thickness. It's, it's 24 hour. It's a, it's a collar. It's okay. We've got something, we've still got something kind of like unique, right? A couple more months past, Boulevard has that Miyota one in it. And I'm like, no, this is, this is more, this is even closer to, you know, Um, what people would prefer in a GMC movement and obviously cost wise, again, it makes more sense. Um, but I was like, well, I'm already way too far at that point when that one was announced, I'd already housed it up and everything. So I already knew that mine worked. I just, it was, it was, it was a case of like committing to it. Cause I, it's not like I can directly swap it and stuff. And I think thankfully after I'd shown it to a couple of people and, and, and, and I explained obviously the, display configuration is still very, very different to, you know, a conventional 24 hour GMT. Um, it was different enough for it to not be too much of a, of a decision in the end, because it's like, you know, it's, it looks very different, even though it has the same function, it tells it very differently. So I think I'll be okay, kind of just going down this, it's not gonna break the bank in terms of cost per unit. So
Andrew	Yeah, well, you know, it's already built around it. I mean, when you're talking exactly like you're talking about going fully back to the drawing board for everything to change your movement out, it makes perfect sense that you just yeah, trucked on.
Everett	Let's talk. Let's talk a little bit about what it is, because I think that it is not immediately apparent. And I think even someone who's maybe read an article about what it is James Stacy, I think does a pretty good job in his writeup on Hodinkee of kind of talking about it, but I didn't really understand what he was saying until I had read a few other descriptions of it. Um, I can't think of anything else that does quite what this does, but I do think that there are some, some movements historically that have done similar things. I can't think of those in an application. So it's a, 12-hour GMT, not really a collar, not really a flyer. Tell us about what this is and how it works.
Ken Lamb	Okay. So if you think of like a normal Mio 15, right, which is a three-hand movement with a date. So the date obviously is pretty straightforward in terms of just relocating it. You've still got um 31 teeth on it but you've now introduced obviously a lever pusher in order to to jump it which moves it away from the crown operation right sure that's that's kind of the first thing to open up a little bit more of like the dial space right and then essentially the module is kind of sandwiched between the movement and the dial um and the module itself is kind of like um it's almost like another little plate And on that plate, it allows kind of like a second hour hand mount, which is connected, which is then connected to two kind of wheels, which are the indicators, right? So what this model is doing is basically giving you a second hour hand, just the second. Yeah, second hour hand, but then the way that that second hour hand is mounted, the module has like gears and levers in order to kind of lock and release it. So you can set it independently. Otherwise, it would just be kind of stiff and stuck in place. So the only way to really do that with the way that the Miyota is working is that if you've because the hour hand is operated in one direction, well, both directions of the crown, right in a normal Miyota movement, to have the same mount and run on the same kind of gear train, you would have to use the same crown positioning for both, unless you had a lever that could step up and step down, which again is a, is a, is a complication that would kind of go even further. Um, so what this does is essentially you would rotate the crown, um, backwards in order to lock the travel time, like the GMT hand in place. So you could set the time difference, and then when you rotate both, when you rotate the hands forward, both of them then lock together. So you've got them moving kind of in unison. So you kind of set your time difference first. So if you're, you know, five hours ahead, or three hours behind, or whatever, you set that first by simply just looking at obviously the markers, because it's not difficult to do, because you're using the same obviously, dial track, set the time difference. And then when you're happy with it, just rotate both hands forward. And then it would just move them both into position.
Everett	You've got some sort of clutch or slip that engages as you turn counterclockwise or perhaps anticlockwise as you're over the pond. Uh, and then as you turn forward, they, they engage together.
Ken Lamb	Exactly. Yeah. And then the, the, the indicator wheels are tied in the same way. So when you're rotating the, when the GMT hand is locked, the right wheel is also locked. Um, and then when you're rotating, Both the hands forward, both the wheels will move forward. So that's how. Yeah.
Everett	And not to get too nerdy with it, but from the engineering perspective, is there, um, is there, uh, an effect on the torque of the movement? Does it affect your power reserve adding this extra hand? Does that have ramifications to the basic operation of the 90 15 in any sort of appreciable sense?
Ken Lamb	I'm not in any not in any way that's kind of severely impactful of the movement. Because obviously, the movement itself is with a 42 hour power reserve. It's, it's got a lot in the tank anyway. So and obviously, if you're wearing it, it's not a case of like you run out 42. And then it recharges 42. It's constantly being it refreshes. Yeah, it's constantly being refreshed. So as you're wearing it, that that talk, essentially, or that energy expenditure is kind of sustained. But then I said, the module itself, it's, it's, it's very simple, like it's not a it's not overcomplicated. And this and the series of kind of like mechanics to kind of lock and release it. It's not really it's not really take the requirement is not that high. So I think, over time, Like, you know, once this watch has been out for a while, there'll be a, you know, there'll be more of an understanding in terms of what the long term kind of power reserve is, you know, because say maybe Miyota 1915 out of the box might have a 42 hour power reserve, but it doesn't mean it will have a 42 hour power reserve two years down the line if you don't service it right.
Everett	Right.
Ken Lamb	Right. So, you know, those sorts of things, I can't predict those. But as far as like, from my experience wearing this so far and that sort of stuff, the wearing time and the power reserve is, you know, you, you don't really notice the difference in from, from, from my experience. So.
Andrew	And you've been wearing a prototype of it, I imagine for nigh on a year.
Ken Lamb	Um, not, not that long. I have to be careful because, because obviously I can't get it all scratched up and stuff. Cause there's only two of these, there's only two of these movements in existence. Um, So like, I've got to be kind of careful with them. Um, I keep them, I keep them running and I'll check them and, and that sort of stuff, but I can't really wear that. I've been dying to kind of just wear it out all the time, but I'll be keeping it on me and like, uh, a pouch or something when I've, when I've shown people. Um, but yeah, I've had it for, for, for quite a while.
Everett	A couple other movement questions before we move on. So the first is. The first is back to functionality. There are these, if you've seen photos of the watch, there are these two indicators, they're AM PM indicators, and you've got two of them because it's a dual time watch. Tell us about those. Tell us about how those work. Maybe not super nerdy, but how, how do those work? How, how did that, how does the, the complication work and then how does it actually work, um, on the watch? Yeah.
Ken Lamb	So obviously when the indicators kind of show white, it's daytime for that hour that it's relating to. So the left is for local. So the left is the main hour minute display. So if that's white, it's AM in the time you're in or black PM in the time that you're in. And then obviously the one on the right is tied to or reflects the GMT hand AM and PM. So if you're in, 8 a.m. and the time you're tracking is 8 p.m. Your two hour hands will be aligned, but one indicator will be white and one indicator will be black.
Everett	And the GMT hand is the lollipop hand, correct? Yes, that is correct. So how does that, how does that work? How did you, how do you get that to operate? Is it just the indicator wheels? Yeah, just two half discs or?
Ken Lamb	Yeah, yeah. It's essentially just two, two, uh, two two wheels that are running connected to the same kind of central, central hour hand. So it's yeah, they're essentially just locked in at the same. So they move with it. It's almost like having four hour hands. Yeah, because they're kind of but but obviously, they're all just kind of displaying the same thing. They're all just kind of moving in the same direction.
Everett	And so at midnight, is there a half white, half black?
Ken Lamb	Yeah.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the, yeah, they kind of like will glide over. They, they change kind of gradually.
Everett	Sure. Like, uh, yeah.
Andrew	Like any other sort of... Did you do like gradient in, in those wheels?
Ken Lamb	No, no, I didn't. Okay. Next time. I mean, that's a good idea. Opportunity. I need to use two, uh, two very kind of different, colors. I think that that is something that I think would be really interesting to do.
Everett	Like like watermelon pink and green.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. It's got to be it's got to be different enough that you can be like, oh, that's the half between a.m. and p.m. and not p.m. to a.m. Right.
Andrew	It's dusk. Yeah. That's yeah.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. You can do a collab with the studio underdog guys with rich bands.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Yeah.
Everett	He's got he's got a lot of color ideas. That's right.
Andrew	Well, so what's the what's the the motivation for all these layers of stuff going on. Like this, there's a lot happening in just your movement that is all incorporated into the design. What, why?
Ken Lamb	I think it's just, just to, to do something different, right? Like there's a lot of, there's a, there's, there's more micro brands or more small independents kind of every single year now. Right. And like, When I did the first watch, it was like a test of concept. It's seeing if people could relate to what I'm trying to do. See if people could also appreciate the design language that I feel is aesthetically pleasing. But then kind of coming to this next one, it's almost like I wanted more people to kind of take it seriously in the sense of like, oh, this is an actual brand now. Like this is a watch that is representative of obviously capability, representative kind of the direction I want to take and kind of the mark I want to make in the small independent space. And I think only by doing something that is kind of a big risk and is very much out there can you really achieve that, you know, because I want to be able to kind of step into the those leagues and for brands that are a lot bigger to okay, yeah, maybe they they might not have the most kind of respect for the small micro brands when most of the small micro brands are either creating homages or that sort of stuff. But it's like it doesn't mean that all of the micro brands are like there are micro brands that you shouldn't really sleep on or you know, you shouldn't turn your nose up at and that sort of stuff. And I think the micro brands are doing a lot more now. And I want to kind of be a part of moving that forward, you know?
Everett	So, so with that in mind, one of the things I think a lot of micro brands think about is how can I pitch this thing that I'm doing in terms of robustness and reliability? One of the best things about a micro brand is It's either got an NH or a Miyota or whatever. You've introduced a component to this watch that I think might give some people some pause, which is replaceability, repairability. Do you have a plan in place for how to address these things three to eight years from now when inevitable failures happen?
Ken Lamb	Yeah, I mean, that's kind of one of the reasons why I wanted to pick a movement like Miyota that was easily serviceable and easily replaced. Like the Miyota movement itself is doing pretty much all the heavy lifting, right? So if there are any actual movement related issues, timekeeping issues, a lot of it is going to be down to that movement, which, you know, you can swap out and that sort of stuff. the module can come off completely in a way. It's so it's just the case of if the module is the thing that's causing the issue that can simply just be replaced. So those things can be sent out in the same way like, uh, and replacement Sapphire glass can be sent out or a new crown and all that sort of stuff. So I'm not as worried about it because the, like I said, the simplicity of the module makes it easy to do that.
Andrew	So you keep saying module and maybe I'm just understanding or your whole GMT functionality and your dual date with disks is just a module plopped on top of the Miota? Essentially. Yeah. Okay. That's far simpler than I was imagining during the first explanation of it.
Ken Lamb	Okay. Obviously, it's locking into kind of the pinion, the mechanism of the watch itself. But essentially, it's you've got the, say, the Miura movement at the bottom, then you've got the module that sits on top, which is just reconfiguring display. And then you've got the dial. So it's just essentially in three parts, which, you know, makes the repair thing a lot simpler, I think, than people are anticipating.
Andrew	Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Everett	So let's get into some of the design language specifics here. I think that for the instrumentum, one of the things that was immediately apparent in particular, when you look at the bracelet, was this inspiration, I'll call it, of a certain famous Swiss brand, Vacheron. And I think we've talked about it the first time you were here. Clearly, there's some inspiration there. And it seems like you've carried that through here, that same cross design that was present, but you've done it differently. Fair to say, I think, that this watch is at least somewhat inspired by the Vacheron Overseas Everest, which doesn't look a lot like this watch. But when you when you dive into these things, it's like, Oh, I see some things here. Again, a question, I suppose, is it fair to say there's some inspiration?
Ken Lamb	Yeah, I mean, like, if I think with the first watch, it was a lot more apparent for people to kind of notice the bracelet. Because it was like, it was kind of one of the only micro brands that was producing a new watch that didn't have like an oyster on it, right? So it's like straight away. Yeah. Yeah. Or a Jubilee or, you know, so you notice it straight away. Um, you know, even if the, the, the detailing is a little bit different in terms of the thickness of it, you know, there's no polished edges like you would find on, on the Swiss brand. And, and, uh, you know, aesthetically it, it looks very different and the cost is extremely different. Right.
Everett	Um, yeah, I don't know what overseas startup, but it's like five digits.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. So, so that, that was the main thing, but nobody ever really said that the head of the watch looked like that because it doesn't. Right. Yeah. There's no exactly. Right. So in my head, it's like, okay, like I knew where I was taking the second watches kind of, uh, you know, in terms of simplifying and all that sort of stuff. And I'd always had the intention to have the bracelet as something that only the kind of the people who bought the first watch would be able to use, but I wanted it to have that cross compatibility. So people could take the bracelet and put it on this watch. So if you take the bracelet and you put it on this watch, then it does have more of those cues, right? But if you look at this watch, and you remove the color way, it's Not really like the Everest. Not even a little bit. Yeah.
Everett	No, there's no there's there's no visual comparison.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. But psychologically, like it takes you there. Yeah. Right. Like I'd be lying if I if I was saying that, like the Everest isn't a watch that fits within the taste that I like. It's definitely a watch that, you know, if I had all the money in the world, it'd be something that I would I would want to own because it's an amazing looking watch. Amazing watch. Yeah.
Everett	That's almost unobtainium, by the way.
Ken Lamb	Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent.
Everett	Even if you can afford them, you can't find them.
Ken Lamb	Exactly. So if, if you take any of the individual components of the Alterum, like if you take the case and look at it side by side, you take the dial, you take the hands, you take the crown. It's not, there are no other cues other than the fact that the color resembles it. But because like, even the lugs don't look like they're lugs, but psychologically it takes you there. Right. Yeah. And so like, it for me, it was like, if I to like, I'm not, I'm not that much of a kind of inter color in the same, I'm not that playful with color. And I don't always know what the best colors are. But I knew I wanted to do something other than than a black dial, like the black dial was always going to happen. And like, there's there's kind of a thought process to why there's a blue GMT hand and all that sort of stuff. But then to do something that's not too out there, but something that is still going to be very appealing. I was like, this is the, this is the color. Like this is exactly where it needs to be. And I knew that it would be polarizing enough for people to be like, I want to talk about it. But if they don't kind of like really look closely at all the individual things, they're going to miss out on, on actually where some of the real inspirations are for the watch. That is what drove me to, to design, say the date hand, the way that it's designed, you know,
Everett	You've talked a little bit about colors. Taking a look at your Instagram page, and even for the benefit of the folks at home, we're looking at a split screen on Zoom. Yes. We've got Andrew and I in a very warmly lit room. There's like a brown filing cabinet, a green plant and terracotta. And like, I'm wearing a, you know, we've got reds and I'm wearing an Artemis logoed shirt. Um, and then you go to the other side. I was pretty sure you were in black and white. It's very coolly, very cool lighting. You're wearing black, um, black. You've, you know, there's just, You've got an aesthetic, which is very cool colors. Your pictures have all been color graded to be cool, very black and white, some blues. How important is that? How important is that color grading to your brand? And is that something that's going to continue to feature in not just your marketing, but your products?
Ken Lamb	Yeah, I think 100% because, you know, the inception of all the watches and the color choices really boiled down to like, am I going to wear it? Like, I won't make a watch that I don't want to wear. And I think like, yeah, I will get more playful with color. You know, there's limited editions that I have in my mind that I would like to do that are a little bit more adventurous, but also like, they're not going to be a part of kind of the core kind of array of watches that are available and therefore you can take a little bit more of a risk because you know you're not making you know hundreds of them or thousands of them or whatever so but in terms of like the brand identity being cool tone greys black and whites quite minimal i think that's gonna be just consistent throughout because that's very much that's my my identity in in the same way like if you look at my wardrobe it's Pullers with odd few pieces that are a little bit more, you know, bold. But, you know, that's from a lot of hard work and effort from my wife to ensure that there are some pieces in my life.
Andrew	And they're primarily Halloween costumes. Yeah.
Ken Lamb	Yeah.
Andrew	I mean, the yellow GMT hand is out there because you're already working with an interesting medium in the way of titanium. Yeah. And are you going to stick with that? It's titanium. Is that the brand material?
Ken Lamb	I'd say like in the beginning, it wasn't supposed to be like it was. It was going to be a feature, but it wasn't going to be like synonymous. But after the response of the first watch and it speaking to people who'd found the brand and decided to purchase like their Google search was titanium watch. Right. Right. I was kind of like, it was becoming a bit more synonymous with the brand. So I thought to myself, well, I like using the metal, like I like the way that it looks, I like the finish on it. And it's not that the outcome is not completely like, it's not sandblasted, like what what you would imagine there is a brushing element to the watch that doesn't look to kind of one tone, like a lot of titanium watches. So I really like the way that it looks. So, yeah, I mean, I'm going to I'm probably going to stick with it. I have another I had been experimenting with a separate case, which I mentioned on some of the interviews for like a dress watch, which it's still not ready. It's nowhere near ready. But I had experimented using both titanium and steel. So I don't think that I would go to just steel completely. There will always be titanium elements in it. But that's kind of like, where it could go.
Andrew	Outside of just using titanium, I think a titanium dress watch would be so baller.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, well, the thing that the thing with the titanium and steel one that I was working with is that they age differently. Right? So like over time, the titanium gets darker. So you the watch becomes more two toned over time. And so like, I do, Yeah, it's the the way that it looks is, you know, I was really happy with it. Like, the only thing that, you know, needs a lot more time is the dial, the dials just not there. I can't really I'm, I struggled to design a dress watch the way that it like the way the dial looks. So I needed a lot more time to kind of put that together. So that probably won't show its head for quite a while.
Everett	Yeah, you've got this really interesting combination of sort of technical engineered feel with the organic curves in your markers. So yeah, it might, that, that's a, that's a, a bite to chew for sure.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. A hundred percent. It's, it's, and like legibility and loom is such a big part of it. And those aren't things that are, you know, a dress watch doesn't need that or like wants that. So yeah. I don't know. It's a it's a different challenge for sure. So I might do it as like a special like a special release, like, you know, for the tool watch guy that goes to a fancy dinner every once in a blue moon.
Andrew	Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And make sure it only has like five meters of water resistance. So you have the most.
Ken Lamb	Oh, no, you can't do that.
Andrew	You have the most durable metal case that just don't even don't even cry when you're looking at it because it'll fog.
Everett	Who says WR on the dial? With a question mark. Resist. Just resist.
Andrew	Well, what else you got cooking? So, so we've got, we've got the Altarum here, which is a super cool GMT release. Altarum? Alterum. I don't know how to say it. You gave us like seven pronunciation options.
Everett	Yeah, we asked Ken how to pronounce it and he was like anything from Alterum to Alterum to Alterum. And none of them sound right when I say it.
Andrew	Yeah, no shit. We know. What else you got cooking? So we're talking a dress watch that's way out there in the future.
Ken Lamb	I think because this is the first one that's going to be like a part of the mainstay. Um, so I'm definitely going to kind of explore this a little bit more in terms of iterations. And, and I think that it, you know, with it having a sub-dial and indicators, there's a lot more room to play, um, with color. So, you know, I want to try and try and do that. Um, the instrumentum series is gonna like this instrumentum design language. Again, it's very much a part of the brand. So the instrumentum kind of series will as this is, it will kind of continue to grow into other complications, maybe other modules, maybe other modified things. Maybe take this and merge it with something that is a little bit more conventional to have like standardized lugs and that sort of thing. But yeah, I don't have any kind of set plan for what the next thing is. I just know that like it'll probably be titanium or have titanium elements. Um, I'll probably still be trying to bring something to kind of the affordable price category that doesn't exist at that price category. Um, and it's gonna have probably the same type of like marker hand layout, which is obviously the, the connected markers with like the sword Lance, uh, hand design.
Everett	That's what we're going with.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, yeah. For lack of a better word, I don't really know what to call them. But yeah, they're kind of like sword hands, but one of them is not.
Everett	Yeah, right. Like a spade sword. You know, you talked a little bit about your integrated lugs. And one of the things Andrew and I picked up on when we talked about this last week was that although the Alterum is not being released with a bracelet, it is compatible with the Instrumentum bracelet. And it occurred to me hearing you talk about this today, that that is intended to be a reward to, that's sort of an Easter egg for your existing customers. And it's not the only way you've done that. You've also, I understand, opened up a bit of a catalog of the Alterum releases to existing customers. How important is that aspect to what you're doing here? And, and how are you, how are you carrying that out both in those ways, but perhaps otherwise?
Ken Lamb	Um, like for me, I think, you know, from the very beginning, it's like, even the design, the process that went into the design, it's, it's about wearing experience. Right. And, you know, I've been lucky enough to be able to communicate with all the people that bought the instrumentum. And I talked to a lot of the customers regularly. And so like, It really meant a lot for me to be able to have people kind of believe in me, believe in the idea, support it and back it and be on board with it. So from day one, I was always thinking of the best way that I could kind of thank them for that as we grow. So brand loyalty is, you know, it means the world to me. So creating this watch that has that compatibility, but then those people have something that is unique and exclusive. And you're going to see, when you see someone who has the altar room on the bracelet, you're going to know that they were there from the beginning. Like there's a lot more, yeah, there's a lot more exposure with this one going out. So you're going to be able to identify those things.
Andrew	Will there ever be an opportunity for those of us who, uh, who, who let you down maybe, or, or didn't jump on? When will we stop being punished for not being on the first wave?
Ken Lamb	There will be bracelet options further down the line, most likely, because, you know, I don't want to shut that door completely, but at the same time, I also need to improve it, right? Like, in the same way I've improved the head of the watch this time around, the bracelet needs to go through the same type of refinement, and improvement and same with the clasp and all that sort of stuff. So if I could introduce quick release to that and all that sort of thing, there's lots of things that would need to go into it first. But yeah, it's creating that wearing experience that benefits the user as they grow with the brand or grow using the products. So I wanted to create essentially like a private kind of like a private members club in a way, but it's, it's less about a group of people that all wear the watch and can talk to each other about or watch and more about they have access to areas of the brand that can evolve that wearing experience for them and grow that wearing experience for them. And that is eventually going to grow into other things, whether that be events or customization and all that sort of stuff. So I started this thing called the armory. And the armory is essentially just a way for me to communicate with existing customers to begin with. But with the Ultram launch, it's the first time that it's going to actually have some real kind of choice to the customer. They have some kind of power over how they want to take this next step with us. So I created two other colorways that are not part of the kind of general release, and they're made to order. you know, if five people from the existing customer base order it, there will only be five of that color made. And then that's it. So we did two colors, which is the, the stealth upgrade and the vision upgrade. Um, stealth is, uh, black on black. So black Cerakoted titanium case, a black dial variant with a black strap. And then the second one is vision and vision is a white dial with a black sub dial. a white strap with a, you know, the normal titanium case. Um, and these are essentially just for, for the period that this was opened, made to order. Um, there's no limited number. So that limited number could be as low as N or as high as the total number of existing customers. Right.
Andrew	So, um, so yeah, it's terrific. Uh, there's going to be ARK and bracelets only parties. You're going to like show your Arkin bracelet.
Everett	Free drinks. And are there are there photos circulating of these yet?
Ken Lamb	There's not photos circulating kind of in the press. The existing customers have already kind of placed their place, their orders on them.
Everett	But that's some hypey shit, man. How many is Eric? How many of these is Eric getting? Both of them over at Rezo's.
Ken Lamb	He's not getting both of them. They're not allowed to have both of them because it would make it less exclusive, I guess. Fair enough.
Andrew	You wouldn't let people buy two?
Ken Lamb	No, they can buy two, but they can't buy both the exclusives because it's kind of like they might wave it in other people's faces.
Andrew	I don't want that. You should if you have both the exclusives. Like, I own all the moon swatches. What's up?
Ken Lamb	I can't do what the Moonsquatch is doing, you know?
Andrew	No, you're doing better because it's a secret menu.
Everett	That will be the pinnacle of Arkham fandom is to acquire both of these.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. I mean, the thing is it will come from acquiring them from other people as well, right? Like it will come from communicating with other owners and doing that sort of thing. So, but yeah, funnily enough, from most of the actual existing customers that that plate put a reservation already because I allow I've allowed them to to essentially place the order beforehand because I so that they have the opportunity to get it. Most of most most people want the gray one anyway, like the stealth they know no, no, they want the anthracite gray from general release.
Everett	Sure, sure.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, so so that there are There are orders of both stealth and vision, but there's not that many if you compare them to the gray. There's going to be a lot more grays about.
Everett	The stealth sounds dope. You're going to have to send me a picture of the vision because that's the one here in your description. Sounds sexy to me.
Ken Lamb	So I'll show you. I'll show you that. I'll give you that. I'll give you a temporary armory password so you can have a little look at it.
Andrew	It's only temporary. He's not even let us have access.
Ken Lamb	Yeah.
Andrew	Just like you get 12 minutes.
Everett	That's right. There is.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Then it times out.
Everett	There is no special access here, folks, just so you know.
Ken Lamb	It's pay-per-view.
Everett	Well, Ken, that's great. So I think we're just about out of time to talk about the Altarum release, but some important details. Pre-orders go live on July 1st. Yep. And these are not limited. So if you order one, you'll get it, correct?
Ken Lamb	Um, it's not limited, but it is done in a, in a batch run. Um, so the first batch is, you know, there are only, uh, say 200 of each color. Um, but then once I fulfilled those, that, that batch, then I will open it up again and do it in batches. Um, just because like, I don't know what the demand is going to be like, I don't want to have people having to wait, like put their money down and then wait, like for the second batch if they, if it gets that far, um, which it could be, however, further down the line, you know, so I'm just going to do it in stages and take my time with it. But yeah, it's not, it's not limited in number, um, but they might have to wait if they miss out on the first day.
Andrew	Well, and so importantly, there is already a six month flash to bang for expected delivery for the first batch, right? Yeah. So that's something noteworthy. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Get in on the first batch or it could be longer.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Cause the, the, the modules are, you know, they're going to take, they take a lot longer to produce. Like we've already began like some of the manufacturing already, um, just to kind of get a headstart because of things that, uh, aesthetic things that need a lot more kind of say QC from me. Uh, you know, we've tried to get a jumpstart on those sorts of things, but the movement, you know, it takes, takes longer. So. We tried our best to bring it down as much as possible, but yeah.
Everett	Best place to order these is at Arkon.UK.
Ken Lamb	Yep. Arkon.UK. Um, if you sign up to the newsletter on the, on the homepage, um, kind of like with a week to go, uh, the time, the time of release will go out and obviously the different time zones and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, it's July 1.
Andrew	What have you, have you announced a time, like, so we can set an alarm
Ken Lamb	I haven't announced the time yet. The time is going to go out on the newsletter. I have got a time, but it's going to go through the kind of the system of, yeah.
Everett	So go to the website, get signed up for the newsletter to get live releases. Arkin.UK. Ken's in the UK if you guys didn't know. If you couldn't tell. If you couldn't tell. And so just, Thank you, Ken, for recording with us very early in the morning. We appreciate it. I think we're just about out of time. Anything else you want to say about watches or your watches before we shift over here?
Ken Lamb	No, just thank you for giving me your platform to kind of speak about the watch. And thanks to your listeners, because a lot of them supported it when we first launched. Just, yeah, just thank you because I'm really grateful to be able to come back and do a second watch and hopefully do a third one and a fourth one.
Everett	Wow. And thank you for coming onto the show again. What a great opportunity to be able to catch up with you and hear about where you're coming, where you're going.
Andrew	And also let you know that we're not ghosting you on purpose.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Thank you for that clarification and thank you for having me.
Everett	The accidental ghosting. Andrew. Andrew, Andrew, Andrew. Other things. What you got? I got another thing.
Andrew	I hope you do. We in America, I don't know if this is the case in the UK, but almost everyone has a bottle of Frank's Red Hot in their fridge, right?
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. I keep it in the cupboard.
Andrew	Is it open? Yeah. Okay. In the cupboard. Are you familiar with Frank's Red Hot?
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Yeah. They get, they give them out. They give like little pots out free with, with one of our pizza chains that are based here. So in my fridge, I've just got like loads of little, you know, like, you know, like a chicken nugget pots. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. It's like that, but, but Red Hot and I've got a bunch of them.
Andrew	That's magical. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want that. Okay. So I, I like Frank's Red Hot a lot, but I like Buffalo sauce better.
Everett	Frank's Red Hot is Buffalo sauce, isn't it? You're wrong.
Andrew	Okay, explain. You're wrong. And here's why you're wrong, because proper buffalo sauce has got butter, it's got a little more vinegar, and it's got a little bit more punch to it, a little more cayenne. So what I recently started doing, like in the last couple months, is I started, I got like a Chinese takeout or like Indian takeout, one of those clear plastic tubs for a soup. Yeah, yeah, sure. I know what you're talking about. I made buffalo sauce. I took Frank's Red Hot, I put it in a pot, mixed in some extra vinegar, whole stick of butter, extra cayenne, just a little extra zhuzh. You zhuzhed it.
Everett	To acid up, right?
Andrew	To make it proper buffalo sauce. And then I started storing that in my fridge in the soup container. And I gotta tell you, it is head and shoulders above just the bottle of Frank's. Because everyone just like takes Frank's and they're like, oh, make a chicken, like a buffalo chicken salad wrap or something like that. They splash some Frank's on it and it's like, yeah, whatever. But you do it with buffalo sauce and the game is changed and it takes 12 minutes of effort for your whole bottle of Frank's. And then it's just there, just like your Frank's. You know, if you might have to melt it because it's got butter in it. I will never have Frank's out of the bottle again.
Everett	You're just going to use your it's so much takeout container better in your takeout container.
Andrew	I got to say it takes no effort. It is so much more delicious. If you're just using Frank's, you're doing it wrong.
Everett	It takes no effort. Are you going to post the recipe on the show?
Andrew	I'll post a recipe for it. It's from all recipes. Fantastic. I don't follow the recipe. I just use the bottle of Frank's a stick of butter. Some vinegar. That's what you need to post.
Everett	Put that in the show notes. Put the recipe. Just the video of me doing that. No, just write the words.
Andrew	I'm not going to do that.
Ken Lamb	I thought you were going to say you were going to make soup using Frank's.
Andrew	I thought that's where it was. It's not a terrible idea.
Everett	Buffalo chicken soup would be delightful. It's not like a chicken noodle with a Frank's base.
Andrew	You're on to something. This is it. I don't have a project next weekend. Buffalo chicken noodle. Holy shit.
Ken Lamb	Oh, you could use those Korean noodles as well. So like really sticks to it.
Everett	Yeah. The big fat ones. Yeah. Fat Korean noodles.
Andrew	Oh, I was thinking like fat, like like stroganoff egg noodles. Oh, that would that would do too.
Everett	OK. Yeah.
Andrew	Yeah. All right. Yeah. Make it. You almost make it like a stroganoff.
Everett	I'm going to put you in charge.
Andrew	OK. I have a project. That sounds amazing. Buffalo chicken stroking off. That's.
Everett	Hey, Andrew, I've got another thing. Do me. I so talked about the escapades, the baseball coaching escapades on the show a couple of times here. I have been working with with West a lot on baseball. We we play catch. I bought gloves, you know, so it's been a whole thing. It's been a really fun. It's I love getting a new thing that I get to buy stuff for, right? You know me. You love to buy stuff. I want to just buy stuff. Give me a new task where I can buy fun stuff. So I, in playing and just working out with Wes, decided I need a fungo bat. A fungo bat is a specific type of bat. So they're very easy to swing, very easy to make contact with. They're typically longer, the way the weight distributed is made for you to, you know, toss the ball up with your left hand, take a cut with your right hand and be able to place the ball in specific places. So I can hit pop-ups relatively easy. I can hit grounders relatively easy. They sell fungo bats. You can go to Dick's sporting goods or to Amazon and buy a fungo bat. But I was like, you know, I kind of want to get a cool fungo bat, uh, because this is, This is a neat thing. This is kind of like watches where you can go to Meyer and Frank or Macy's. That's not even real anymore. Or, okay, fair enough. You can go to Macy's or does Gottschalk still exist? Whatever. Department store of your choice and buy a watch or. We're so old. You can do a little research. Sears. Sears. You can spend some time and buy something that's cool for probably not a lot more money. But just a little bit of thoughtfulness. So I found this company called Ritchie with a T. Ritchie. Ritchie makes bats amongst other things.
Andrew	They're gorgeous. They're like hang on your wall gorgeous. I wouldn't want to knock a ball with this.
Everett	Correct. These things are totally, totally stunning and you can customize it. in terms of length, in terms of the knob, you can get the knob you want, you can pick your barrel color, you can pick your handle color. And oftentimes you do something like this, someone pulls something off a shelf and they ship it to you, you get a shipping notification or like, we've got your order, we'll let you know when it ships. The notification you get when you order a RichieBat is production on your bat is underway. So what they do is they take a blank and they make your bat from scratch.
Andrew	And a dude hits a, hits a turning wheel and starts chiseling it out.
Everett	To your specifications. Um, this is some weird stuff when you order it, like you can get a Bible scripture and nothing else engraved.
Andrew	What is that?
Everett	I'm curious what that is. Which I was like, I don't Okay, it says, look at this, it says, free scripture engraving.
Andrew	Oh, Philippians 4.13 is, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Everett	For example, if just the scripture reference is typed, just the reference will be engraved. If you want the full scripture engraved, it must be written out as you want it. Anything other than scripture will not be engraved.
Andrew	So I was like, okay, Richie, we get it. Put in there something like grotesque and just see if they even fulfill your order.
Everett	Dicks! With a Z. What's the name of the gal that Bud Light got in trouble for? Anyway, I didn't order a Bible scripture, but I did order a Ritchie bat. It took about four weeks from the day I ordered it to the day I got it. That's a good turnaround. Which is pretty good. And this thing is Rad. It is so freaking cool. Um, it's a fungo bat. So if you've ever sown a fungo bat, you know, it's, that's all it is. It's a 35 inch fungo bat.
Andrew	Um, what's interesting in a right-handed wrap and a left-handed wrap on a fungo bat. Well, I think it's the, it's the, the directionality of the wrap.
Everett	That's right. So if you're, if you're coming this way, if you're coming in a right-handed swing, it's going to torque against your hands versus anyway. Um, yeah. It's it's beautiful. It's lovely. I've only hit like a handful of balls with it thus far. We've just picked back up into summer league. So it's going to get it's going to get some more use here in the next couple of weeks. But I got it in our team colors. It's pretty cool.
Andrew	You can't move now. You're like locked into this house.
Everett	Yeah. Well, I mean, we're locked in anyway. So but I'm pretty excited to get it to get it swinging at practice. It's a it's really dope. Yeah. If you're looking for a fungal bat or you need a dad bat or you just want something cool, check out Richie Bats. R-I-T-C-H. R-I-T-C-H-I-E. Yes. Richie Bats. There'll be a link in the show notes. Check it out. It seems like a pretty cool company made here in the United States by a pair of hands after you click the pay now button. Pretty neat.
Andrew	Yeah, I'm sure that guy's sitting on a wheel, man. Just just churning it out.
Everett	Ken. You got another thing?
Ken Lamb	I do. Do me. I do. I do. Yes. I will. Um, so, uh, yeah, I think we, we basically before I kind of used to spend a lot before I spent all my money on watches, um, I used to spend my money on, on trainers or sneakers, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we, we, we talked about, Yeah, we talked about this a little bit kind of last time, because you dug into my history and my formal education and such.
Everett	As we do from time to time.
Andrew	Hot takes, that's what we're known for.
Ken Lamb	Very unlike me, which I'm recommending a book, which is, you know, it's not like me. I'm not a particularly big reader. basically when I got back from, so I went to, I went to Geneva around the time of watches and wonders.
Everett	And when I got back and you just casually ran into James Stacy.
Ken Lamb	Oh yeah. That was, that's a whole, that's a whole other story. But yeah, he was in the canteen. Um, I went to go visit sin cause I wanted to have a look at Zin's new titanium watches. Um, and as I was leaving, he was just setting up. So, but yeah, that's a, that's a, A story for another day. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so, so when I got back, my, my wife had, had, uh, picked up shoe dog. I'm, I'm not sure whether either of you guys have talked about this on the pod before. I did a quick check to see if it had come up, but I don't think it had read it. Oh, okay.
Everett	I know what you're talking about.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Yeah. So, um, funnily enough, I'd, I'd never, I'd never read it. Like I'd seen, I'd always seen it in like, lifestyle, streetwear stores, or you see it in a sneaker shop and, and a lot of people kind of recommend it and stuff. But I'd never really read it, even though I've always been a big fan of Nike. And obviously, that's kind of like, your origin of where you guys are at. And, and yeah, so I, I started reading it. And funnily enough, it's one of those books that I kind of would like to recommend it to anybody who's looking to start their own thing. Because like, as I was reading it, I started to realize that like this, you know, they're not they're not direct comparisons, but there's so many parallels between kind of the things that he went through and the motivations behind him wanting to do his own thing.
Everett	Speaking of speaking of Phil Knight, the founder of Nike, who started his shoe company from the Trunk of his car with a trunk of his car and a waffle iron here in Eugene, Oregon, where we sit today.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. So so like his his kind of story and I think it's just that there's a great kind of. There's a lot of lessons to learn, and I think when you're creating something for yourself and you're going through those different processes and you can feel quite alone sometimes in, you know, whether you're doing the right thing or whether your if it are you are you supposed to make this mistake or where are you supposed to go from here and like I should be doing better in this position right like and when you kind of reading his ups and downs from when he first started and kind of how he kind of winged it in the same way a lot of people have to wing it in the beginning there's just a nice it's it's a nice read and I definitely would recommend it to anyone who you know like I said is is looking to start their own thing or has desires to start their own thing or just wants to feel like they're doing more. Um, and yeah, it's just, it's, it was, it was really easy to read. Like, like I said, I'm not a big kind of reader. Um, I don't, I don't kind of sit down and read a book that often. Um, but this one was like, you know, it was, it was nice.
Everett	It's a, it's a great pick and I'm glad you brought it. You know, I feel like, we could have an entire podcast about Phil Knight. So being in Eugene for as long as Andrew and I have, and maybe less so in Portland, though. There's something about Eugene. So Eugene, nicknamed Tractail in USA, in many ways was created by Phil Knight and Bill Bowerman, perhaps. That culture of whatever it is, whatever magic exists here that facilitates that connotation
Andrew	It's Uncle Phil. It's him still pouring money into it to keep the dream alive.
Everett	If you say Uncle Phil in Eugene, everybody knows exactly who you're talking about because he is the beneficiary or he is the donor and we are the beneficiaries of this obscene amount of money. And being students at U of O, you almost can't escape. There's some of these things that are borderline legend. But what I will say about Phil Knight, is he's a fucking weirdo. He is a legitimately weird dude and not a... As is everyone else who is self-made to that level. No, I don't think that's right. So there's something about what he did that worked, notwithstanding the fact that he shouldn't. And I think that that's what you're tapping into, Ken. He had ideas, he had thoughts, but he was super enigmatic, I think is the nicest way to put it. legitimately a weird dude. And we talked about this when we had Mike Demartini on the show a little bit, but the movie air, which is the story of Sonny Vaccaro signing Michael Jordan. I mean, at the time, Nike was the biggest company in running shoes in the, in America, but they were not a basketball company. And, and anybody who's under the age of about 35 might be shocked to learn that, right? But there was this time when Nike and you see Matt Damon and Ben Affleck does such a good job in that movie. I think, um, I I've never met either of those people, Sonny Vaccaro or, or Phil Knight, but I've met other people.
Andrew	Or Matt Damon or Ben Affleck.
Everett	I've met other people who have been heavily involved in Nike. And there was this thing that was happening in the late eighties and early nineties at Nike, which was kind of unprecedented. Uh, and which was weird and didn't make any sense. And that movie aired as such a good job with it. Um, really terrific story. And to your point, Ken, I think the bigger picture is whatever it is you're trying to do, just remember to be confident and remember to do it the way you want to do it and to go get your guy or, or go get your, your shoe or whatever it is and just go.
Andrew	Go fucking do it.
Everett	Just, just do it. In any event, yeah, great, great pick. I have not read Shoe Dog and it's, it's... Oh, you should.
Ken Lamb	I really do need to, yeah. Even if, even if like from, from obviously starting Foster and stuff, like having just the conclusions he gets to why he makes certain decisions at the early stage, you know, you'll, you'll kind of read it and be like, oh yeah, there's some parallels to it, regardless of what business you start or whatever, there's those things, but then Also on the other side, which I think I also connected with is like Bill, Bill Bowman, like he's like in his garage, like, like pouring like polyurethane before it's polyurethane, like into like an actual waffle cooker, like actual waffle. Yeah, an actual waffle iron. He's like, or he like he's, he's breaking waffle irons by the dozen because he's trying to pour plastic and rubber resins into this thing. And like, it's that mentality of like, okay, like that, I'll find a way or make one mentality, which, which is what got me to, to where I started. So I kind of just had like, I was, I was reading it. I was like, you know, he traveled at this age and he did this. And when he goes to these different countries, I'm like, Oh yeah, I, I, I ate some dodgy food at this country too. You know, it was like, you're kind of going through the same, like worldly kind of perspective thing as a young person, and then kind of reaching that conclusion that, you know, the day job isn't really satisfying that desire to kind of see the world or do more or create or, you know, in his case, run and create a lifestyle culture that was built around the things that he loved. Um, so yeah, I just, I just think it's, it's one of those books that even if you're not like a sneakerhead or a shoe dog or, or, anyone who's ever been obsessed with something to the point where like they would think about it being like, I'd love to do that for a job. This is one of those books that I think you should read.
Everett	So I love it. Hey, Ken, I want to thank you for coming on. You at home, if you want to check out Arkin and you want to check out the new Altarum, you can do that at Arkin.
Andrew	Altarum. What'd I say? You said Altarum. I heard Ken say Altarum. God, I hate you so much.
Ken Lamb	Do you guys watch Brooklyn Nine-Nine?
Andrew	I've watched it just recently. Like I've just finished the series again. Yeah.
Ken Lamb	Cause every time you say Alterum, I'm thinking like Nicolaj, you know? Have you seen that? I'm thinking like, he's like Nicolaj, you know, like Nicolaj.
Everett	No, it's Nicolaj. I don't like your guys emphasis. If you want to check out the Alterum, you can do that at arken.uk. Also you can, you can check out what's happening, what's new with Arken Watch with Arken. at Arkin Watch Co. on Instagram. Check it out, you guys. This is really cool. It's a cool release. We're all pumped for it. I love the fact that you're using the 9015, notwithstanding the 9075 release. Andrew, anything you want to add before we get going for the day?
Andrew	I'm out of things, man.
Everett	Hey, guys, thanks so much for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20, The Watch Clicker Podcast. Do me a favor. You can check Arkin Watches out at Arkin You can check us out at 40 and 20 underscore watch clicker. That's important. It's the new page. And at at watch clicker on the Instagram, check us on our website, watch clicker.com. That's where we post every single episode of this podcast, as well as articles, reviews. Oh, check out Frank's new tips and review. It's not a review. It's like nothing you've ever read. WatchClicker.com. Check that article out. It is fantastic. If you want to support us, you can do that at Patreon.com slash 40 and 20. It's how we get all the money to host this stuff. And it's a lot, you guys. Picture hosting. Look at Frank's pictures. Each one of those is like 855 megabits. You can support us at Patreon.com slash 40 and 20. We need your support. We love you guys. We know you love us. Just give us a couple bucks a month. It'd be great. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Buh-bye.