Episode 237 - Mods, Homages, and Copies

Published on Wed, 10 May 2023 20:20:44 -0700

Synopsis

The podcast hosts Andrew and Everett discuss the concept of homage watches in the watch industry. They explore the different types of watches that fall under this category, such as replicas, counterfeits, mods, and reissues by various brands like Islander, Uncle Seiko, Dan Henry, and zombie brands that use new old stock parts. They delve into the nuances of what constitutes an homage versus a direct copy, and the role of Chinese factory brands in producing affordable alternatives. They also share their opinions on Uncle Seiko's controversial decision to use Seiko branding on some of his modded dials. Additionally, Andrew provides his scathing review of the critically acclaimed movie "The Power of the Dog," which he found excruciatingly boring despite its accolades.

The hosts imbibed the Elysian Brewing Company's Super Fuzz Blood Orange Pale Ale during the episode, and Andrew sampled a spoonful of the extremely hot "The Last Dab" sauce from Heatonist as his "other thing" for the week.

Links

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• episode MP3 - local mirror

Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, besides a giant asshole, how are you?
Everett	So good. Uh, you know, I don't think there's anybody in the world besides me who appreciates my fade work. That was my best yet. I had, oh man. We work in tandem though. Just start it over again and go in and listen to that fade. That is, listen you guys, if you're listening for free, God bless you, but that was, you're really getting a lot, you're getting your money's worth here.
Andrew	For those patrons out there, that's what you're paying for. You're paying for Everett's finger gliding fade ability.
Everett	You may have noticed we've moved the studio to an airport hangar. Uh, yes. Audio is a little different. It is and not much changed in here. You took two things out of this room and all of a sudden it's just, uh, it's an echo chamber. It's an echo chamber. Yeah. It's okay. You know, I, this has happened before where I thought on the, on the headphones, I was like, ah, so a little, and then I listened to it in post and I was like, yeah, it's fine.
Andrew	Yeah. Post-production cleans it up. All right. It's a richer, fuller sound.
Everett	But I'm doing really well. It's Tuesday night. I just got done with a baseball game. I did you play? I did. I, well, I was third base coach. Nice. And I counted pitches. How many pitches? Lots. I counted lots and lots of pitches. Uh, yeah. So just, I mean, it's like spring. It's like, it's real spring, real spring, sunny. It was like, you could smell grass when we got to the baseball field. It was like a sunflower seeds. It's like, all right, here we go. That's, that's it. Here we go. It's the stuff. Yeah. My son had an RBI. West had an RBI and scored, got walked, struck out swinging, and then an RBI, fielder's choice, line drive. But yeah, man, shoot.
Andrew	It was a good game. He still made impact with the ball.
Everett	Made impact with the ball, yeah. Got that contact.
Andrew	Andrew, how are you? I am good. I accidentally took a nap just a little bit ago. Um, so I'm a little concerned I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight. But other than that, I'm good. Like I'm energized. I'm feeling refreshed. I just woke up. So I'm good.
Everett	You don't have sleepy face. Sometimes I'll come over and you'll still have sleepy face.
Andrew	I don't think I slept that long. I think I slept just, I mean, I slept too much, right? A person should not be going to sleep at 8pm if they intend to sleep again that night.
Everett	Yeah, that's maybe true.
Andrew	So I don't know. We'll see how it works out. But, uh, I'm feeling refreshed. I'm feeling ready to go. I'm excited to be talking about watches. I forgot to get my other thing. Uh, I'll, I'll get it later.
Everett	You, you, you like purchased another thing and you brought it for me to look at. Yeah. To touch with my hands. Yeah. Heck yeah. I'm pumped. Should be. I'm pumped.
Andrew	I had bigger plans. They just didn't, they just kind of fell through the cracks. Well, you know, this, this is just a little teaser for what we got going, uh, soonish.
Everett	So, so for now, but today we're talking about watches. We are, I could tell, I could tell you wanted me to say that.
Andrew	I feel uncomfortable saying it because it's what you say.
Everett	It's your role here. I'm the one who pushes things along. We're talking about watches. Andrew, this is a, uh, this is an episode that was completely from, from, uh, soup to nuts concocted by you. I say, I don't, I'm not saying that as a warning to anybody. Uh, yeah, well, I mean, oftentimes, uh, you'll come up with the concept and we'll wrap on it and we'll sort of you know, tune it up, or sometimes you'll come up with a concept and then we'll both like independently put together aspects of the show. But basically this was, like I said, soup to nuts, this is all you. Yeah. What does soup to nuts mean? What's the etymology of that phrase? I ask you as if you know.
Andrew	You know, I don't know. Yeah. When I hear soup to nuts, I usually assume You eat it, and then you poop it.
Everett	Let's move on. Let's move on.
Andrew	We're just gonna move right along. Nuts to soup would make more sense because it's like you gather the nut, then you make a soup from said nuts. A nut soup. Yeah, I'm sure that's a thing. Oh, it is. Yeah, soup to nuts, I don't know. How about we move on? No, I kind of like this. Let's spit ball on that. Oh boy.
Everett	So today we're talking about, uh, how would you characterize this?
Andrew	This is, I think one of my favorite types of episodes that we do where we get this kind of interesting thing in the watch world and we just wonder about it. We opine wildly, give hot takes, and discuss an issue that maybe is or isn't an issue. So today we are going to talk about the world, the subcategory in the watch industry of big idea, homages. And I think this, I think homage is unique, is, is much different than other categories we're going to talk about. We're talking about homages. It's about replicas, counterfeits, mods, reissues, and how those things all kind of fit and play together. So this is exactly what I wrote to you. Some things. So some things like Islander, Uncle Seiko, the zombie brands that use new old stuff. Dan Henry. So that's the scope kind of of what we're talking about. We're talking about this world of what of homages, right? Because they all kind of fall under that umbrella. Things like Islander, Uncle Seiko with his modded Seikos, Dan Henry and Take your pick of 10 billion brands out there. Well, sure.
Everett	We've got brands like pseudo replicas. Steel Dive and Mercor, these Chinese factory brands that are making really pretty amazing, you know, middle level watches for, for oftentimes very few shekels.
Andrew	Yes. Next to nothing. But I wanted to talk about that. I wanted to talk about what these, what role these things play. in the watch industry. And first and foremost, I think I wanted to talk about an homage and make a clear delineation between an homage and all of those other things. I think an homage is a much bigger idea than any one of these other things encapsulate. Right? A replica is a replica. That's not an homage. And I think Islanders is really interesting in that they do kind of a mod. I think it's fair to say maybe an upgraded version of some of some really iconic watches. That's a thing. Uncle Seiko does a straight mod and sells it under a. Under the original branding. Dan Henry sells it under his branding, but uses historical references to basically remake something. We have zombie brands who reissue with either new old stock or they reissue things just newly made, but I don't think those are homages. Yeah.
Everett	Well, let's, let's, so we've talked about this on the, on the show before there's the, there's the literal definition of homage. And then there's the way we've appropriated that term in the watch industry. So just, I'm going to, from dictionary.com. Respect or reverence paid or rendered. It's a noun. Respect or reverence paid or rendered. Something done or given in acknowledgement or consideration of the worth of another. So this term is a lot broader than the context in which we most often use it. I think when we talk about an homage in the watch industry, oftentimes we're talking about something that is very closely formulated to resemble another watch. Oftentimes a watch that's out of production or, you know, Dan Henry is a perfect example. Dan Henry makes these watches that we refer to as homages, and certainly they are, to these classic out of production watches or sometimes even a category of watch for Dan Henry. But certainly like with the Dan Henry 1972, that is short of being one-to-one, that is a very close approximation of the Porsche Orfina Top Gun watch, right? So when we say, oh, this is an homage to that, that is a Seamaster 300 homage that is a Submariner homage, Genalt is a brand that, you know, they're making watches that are as close to the real thing as you can get. And that's even prized like, Oh, well, that's so good because it's so close to the original.
Andrew	I disagree with that as an homage.
Everett	Well, you, but you don't disagree with With the point I'm making that that is how we use the term homage in the watch industry.
Andrew	And I think we use it incorrectly, much like the way we use flagship incorrectly. I think it's wrong. I'm so excited that this is out now.
Everett	Yeah. So we're drinking Elysium, which is a fantastic brewery, Northwest Brewery. The Super Fuzz, the Blood Orange Pale, which is a really good beer.
Andrew	It's their summer seasonal. It's delightful.
Everett	It is not an IPA, which I'm a fan of. It's a little less hoppy, but certainly still big and bright. And it's all that blood orange in there. Yeah. I love it. I'm a huge fan of this beer. Me too.
Andrew	Uh, they have instructions on the pack that I got to make a fuzz duster, which is half space dust and half super fuzz. Okay. And blending beers, strange to me. But I've done it and it's a delightful beer.
Everett	You know, if you've ever been to Oregon, you may have been to a McMinimins. A McMinimins, what do we call them? They're not restaurants necessarily.
Andrew	Sometimes they are, but tap houses, brew pubs, venues.
Everett	Yeah. So McMinimins is sort of a famous beer company in Oregon and they've been making the same Five or six beers for 40 years. And they were kind of one of the original micro breweries and they've never really messed with the formula and they make good beers. But one of their things is to mix beers. They've got a Terminator stout that they mix with things. And so you can order just on draft a number of mixed beers from it. And that's what it makes me think of.
Andrew	The Ruby, the Ruby on the river. In the middle of summer is just so good.
Everett	Yeah, they make a grapefruit. It's not a shandy, but it's like a grapefruit summer ale. And it's.
Andrew	Yeah, we have we have one of their tap houses here in town, right on the river. That is like Cajun tots and a ruby. Yeah. Looking at the river in the middle of the day. Magical. Back on topic. Here's my opinion on an homage. We in the watch world use it wrong. I think, I think we should be reserving the term homage for designs that can stand on their own, but that are inspired by something else.
Everett	Yeah, because I think sometimes homage gets used as a dirty word and it shouldn't be a dirty word. Homage should be something that is, powerful and respectful and enjoyable. And I think sometimes we say, Oh, it's an homage watch as a pejorative.
Andrew	I think it's because we're, we're replacing the word replica or recreation or, or theft with homage. There's a 10 billion iterations of the sub out there. You can't look at any one of them and say, that's an homage. No, that's just a sub. That's a copy of an iconic design. Oh, cool. You changed the marker a little bit. It's, it's not an homage. It's the same watch. I also understand that there are physically only so many shapes that can go into a watch and still be attractive. But a subcopy is a subcopy. I like many of them, but they're not homages to the sub. They're a copy of the sub, which is smart. That's, I'm not saying copy in, in even a derogatory sense, you should do the thing that is the most popular. That's smart. If, if Henry Ford is running a production line of cars out the door, I'm not, I don't think that companies should attempt square wheels. Sure. Or, or upgrading the wagon. Like, no, no, no. This is the, this is the best thing that we can be doing right now. Let's do it. Cause that's, what's going to make us money. Cause this is a business. Companies want to make money because they want to stay afloat. So they don't become a zombie brand. Right. That's right. That's super reasonable. I want to see design inspired by great design. When we describe an homage. You know, and unfortunately, because I spend a lot of time with my eyes on Foster, that was one of the first brands that came to mind. It's not unfortunate, but I also don't want this to be, I don't want you guys to feel like we're constantly pitching Foster at you just because there's no pitch. There's an interested party here. But Foster comes to mind, right? Foster is an homage to a thing. It's an homage watch to this whole bread of watches that existed and did this really specific thing and did it in a cool way and was important to the watch industry at the time. And you recognized that, were inspired by that, liked and appreciated it, took those inspirations and then made a design around that idea.
Everett	Yeah, you know, and we definitely made some fairly overt homages within our design and some, you know, perhaps less overt homage, you know, the, the stoplight seconds hand, um, that H case, you know, some of these things are, are pretty overt. You know, the, the asymmetric cases is an homage to a handful of different watches handful though, um, that are the circle F our secondary logo, that circle F is a, you know, homage to the luminescence markers, um, of, of that era of the, of the, you know, golden age era. So there's, there's a handful of different things that we kind of lumped together, which is not to say, well, I don't know. Uh, you know, we've talked about another brand in this context before, and I think they do a wonderful job with it, but Lauren Lorenzo Ortega and Laurier, I think have done the same thing. And at one point I really felt like, gosh, Laurier may be the most important company in watches and microbrand watches. And I don't, I don't not feel that way today, but you know, they really, I think, did this idea of a watch that you're pitching right now. At the time when, when Laurier was really sort of busting out, you know, say circa 2019, 2020, I was really impressed by the way they had done the things they were doing, you know, between size and materials and, you know, macro and micro design language. They really, I think more than any company I can think of, have captured that idea of an homage to any number of things, but really to a style.
Andrew	To an era, to a thing in watches that was representative of a huge population of watches and not a single watch. I struggle to accept homage to a single watch. If you want to pay homage to a Daytona, just get a fucking Daytona. And I understand that that's, you know, nigh on impossible, but just making a cheap copy of it or cheaper version of it, I don't think is paying due regard or reverence to that thing. Now, if it was no longer in existence, now we're in a little bit different game.
Everett	Well, let's talk about a couple brands. I've got two web pages that I've just pulled up. I've got the Steel Dive website. I think Steel Dive is one of the players in this Chinese factory brand right now. And I've also got Island Watch, LongIslandWatch.com, you know, what we call Islander. We've had Mark on the show. I think Mark's fantastic. He's got his Islander brand under the Long Island Watch website with the brand name Island Watch. But when you scroll through these two websites, you'll see. So just from the top, I've got a Steel Dive GMT-SKX. I've got a Steel Dive Air King, perhaps. I've got a Steel Dive Explorer, an Explorer 2. A Turtle. A Sub, a Turtle.
Andrew	They make no qualms about what they're copying.
Everett	A Ploprof.
Andrew	Yeah, so... Yeah, Ploprof, what on earth?
Everett	A Tuna. So these are watches that are more than evocative. And you've used some pretty direct language, I'll let you stick with that. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with this, but I know for my own tastes, it's... a little bit too on the nose, right? Islander, same thing. I'm going through and I'm looking at SARBs. I'm looking at SKXs.
Andrew	What intrigues me about Islander is that most of his designs, he fixed the- Monsters. He fixed the problem. Yeah. He upgraded it in a meaningful way that people wanted anyway, or that people were modding to get to. and is now selling it under his label. This is an interesting phenomena within this conversation. Because I don't think Steel Dive is producing better than Seiko or Rolex or Omega in their replicas.
Everett	But they might be giving Seiko a run for their money. Perhaps.
Andrew	In some categories. I don't think in the Well, I'd have to look. I haven't looked at their specs, but I'm, they could be.
Everett	I know Mark has given Seiko a run for their money. Absolutely. Yes. And, and so, and this, this ideology is sort of born out of the modding community. When we got into, when we got into watches, you and I, Andrew, I don't remember who it was, but there was a popular modder who was marketing and selling an ultimate SKX.
Andrew	And it was the same guy who was doing upgraded SNKs too, right?
Everett	Uh, you know, there's a handful of companies that were all kind of doing this at the same time, but the one I'm thinking of was, it was an SKX. It was just a Seiko SKX that had been pulled and I believe had Sapphire crystal, had a four hour movement with hacking and hand winding, had a, a bezel upgrade, I believe to Sapphire. Um, and, and, and a new dial, you know, a dial with maybe not applied markers, but at least the impression of applied markers. It was basically an SKX with a lot of Seiko parts. I think the crystal was probably third party. I assume the bezel was third, the insert was third party, but they had taken the SKX and turned it into a competitive watch, you know, from tip to tail. It was a, and they weren't, they weren't inexpensive, right? If I remember right, they were 500 or 600 bucks, which was a good value for that watch.
Andrew	And considering the time and parts that are going into it, that's not a big profit margin.
Everett	And the dial was, the dial was a Seiko dial from a different watch. And I can't remember what dial they were using, but you know, that I remember the first time I saw that and I thought, ah, that is a thing that I could get into, right? Because it was primarily Seiko parts or, or, you know, at least, you know, it still had that Seiko branding. Uh, it felt like a Seiko, it just felt like an SKX, but everything had been turned to 11. And I thought, this is, this is good, right?
Andrew	At least turned up to eight from the five that Seiko, that the SKX existed at.
Everett	That's right. They just bumped the gain a little bit. Uh, and so, you know, I think it was that, that those, the efforts of those people. And, and, you know, there's so many folks in that, in that world, you know, Yobokis and, uh, Degas and, you know, all these folks that have sort of contributed, Billy Al, right. Contributed so heavily to that community that made these types of things realistic for people to even try. I mean, I think that that's, that's the first part, right? At some point someone's got to try, right?
Andrew	And I'm going to, yeah, the tools were there.
Everett	I'm going to get this watch and I'm going to just take out that shitty hard Lex crystal and put a Sapphire in like easy. Right. And it is, it's pretty easy. You could do it. Um, I don't want to, but you have these people like in the forums and they're like, look what I did. I took my SNK and I put a double AR blue flame sapphire crystal in it and it looks fucking incredible. And everyone's like, yeah, it does look incredible, right? You know, all of a sudden it's like, well, if he can do it, maybe I can do it. And this modding community comes out and then you've got people selling, marketing and selling ultimate SKXs. And from that we get to, you know, companies like Island Watch and Perhaps Merkur and Steel Dive, which have a whole different set of capabilities.
Andrew	And even Deep Blue and Bernhardt. Take your pick, dozens and hundreds of them.
Everett	I don't know if I'd put Deep Blue and Bernhardt in the same, but your point's a good one, right? Certainly Deep Blue, right? This is like, I remember that was the first time I was like, Oh, that's an SKX, but it looks better in every regard.
Andrew	I still regret not getting them when they were like 90 bucks on sale. Yeah. I wouldn't wear it, but I still regret not getting it. They're not 90 bucks.
Everett	And you know, I think Andrew, both you and I have owned an Island watch. I still own one. I know I've shipped mine. Um, but yeah, yeah. You know, you, you've got this opportunity to take something that's beloved and recognizable and to perhaps make it better or just own it better. Right. And that's, uh, that's alluring, you know, But when we start talking about things like a sub, it's the difference between owning one or not, right? A Genal, you know, perhaps a mil sub or, or there's another company, Silver, I remember that was making a mil sub. And I thought I could, I could get behind this. This is cool. It's attractive to me in a way, you know, this is a watch I'm realistically never going to buy or even sniff at, And maybe I get one of these silvers. Uh, yeah.
Andrew	So that's, but, but look at, look at other big companies. Squala does a, does a straight sub. I mean the 300. Steinhardt, same. Yeah. And the Squala is not cheap. It's about a thousand bucks. It's on, it's 8.15 right now on Island Watch. I don't like it any better or less than the sub. It is, exactly the sub with a different logo.
Everett	You know, when we were getting into watches, I spent a lot of time looking at Steinhardt's and squalas on Gnomon, nom nom, as you like to call it. Uh, yeah, I mean, I, and it was, it, it wasn't, in fact, I remember going to, there's a restaurant that's, that's been closed recently, but they, it was a fantastic Szechuan restaurant in town called Kung Fu Bistro. And the guy at the counter had us a root beer squalor on. And I was like, that's a fucking cool watch, man. And he was like, Oh yeah. Do you know what this is? And I was like, yeah, I know what that is. And it's cool. I like it. Can I see it? And I handled it. And, uh, I was like, man, maybe I want to get one of those.
Andrew	Does that make it cooler than a sub? Cause it's off brand. It's like the, well, I don't know. It's intriguing. Cause to recognize this, everyone recognizes this sub. But to recognize a squalor, there's something cool there.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. So, so I, a, I recognize that this young guy making probably, you know, $27,000 a year is wearing a dope watch. So I know he's a watch dude. He's thoughtful. I like, I know he's like me. I see that guy and I'm like, you're like me, you know, and I strike up a conversation with him and he sees my recognition and he understands that I'm like him. And he knows my watch, which means he knows. He knows. Right. Yeah. It, I don't know if it's cooler than a sub perhaps, but definitely that's an opportunity. If he had been, if he had been wearing a sub, I'd have probably assumed it was a replica and moved the fuck on. Right.
Andrew	Right. Yeah, absolutely. There's that's, that's kind of the conflict in it because to see a squalor is cool to see a sub is like, is not because it's a coin toss chance that it's not even real.
Everett	Especially on a, you know, 25 year old kid at the counter at Kung Fu Bistro.
Andrew	I don't know. You never know in a restaurant. Like that could be their 13th restaurant. Right. You'd just be fucking loaded, but there's something there. Yeah. And that kind of like gives me some consternation in this conversation of, I feel like replicas and counterfeits are wrong.
Everett	I don't like them. Well, let's, let's be, let's be clear. Replicas and counterfeits are specific terms, right? Those are terms that mean watches that have been produced to pass as the real thing. And I think that there's a lot of, so I've spent some time reading replica forums and the way people talk about this stuff. And I think that there is a popular culture in the replica forum that suggests you need to own it. Own the fact that this is a replica. And if you talk to someone, you need to just say, this is a replica. Don't try to pass this off as a real thing. Because somebody else already did. I'm not sure how many people that are buying replicas ascribe to that. But I do know that that's a part of that culture. All that to say, it does not change the fact that a replica watch is being made explicitly to pass off as the real thing. And so when we talk about this world, there's replicas.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	And that's different than everything else we're talking about. And we're probably not going to say a lot more about replicas at this point. Correct. Because that's not... That's not what we're talking about. Correct. But this... Hold on, Andrew. I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. You should be. I'm sorry. Thank you. I accept. I'm just feeling so Canadian right now. Yeah. Look, I don't judge anybody, right? Do what you gotta do. I wouldn't buy a replica, and I think you're probably the same in that, but no judgment, you guys.
Andrew	I would buy a bad replica. Like, I would buy a Seamaster with a Rolex logo.
Everett	Yeah, because that's funny. I would buy that. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. But generally speaking, not something I'm into at all. But also no judgment. Whatever, you guys. Whatever.
Andrew	I'm more judgy. Actually, I'd be really excited to wear that one.
Everett	I'm personally more judgy about a steel dive than I am about a replica. I don't know why. I can't justify it as I sit here. I don't know why.
Andrew	What's the difference between a steel dive and a squala? Perhaps none, perhaps none. Or any of the other sub, I don't know if copies even an appropriate term, sub likenesses. You know, I think
Everett	I think there is some sort of provenance to Squalor or Steinhardt that doesn't exist in Steel Diver, maybe Mercure. But as I say that, I feel like I've got to acknowledge the possibility that I'm just being xenophobic. And, you know, so I'm going to, I'm going to reserve my But I mean, I tell I've had a chance to think about it. Cause that's a terrible thought.
Andrew	You're, you're tolerating it because squalor has a little bit more history and original designs of their own. Is it maybe that's what makes it acceptable is that it's a brand that has a design team. That's not just making, what are we going to call it? Copy is the only thing that I can come up with. Yeah. And I don't think it's derogatory. I think it just is. I think it's just an objective thing.
Everett	Yeah. We call it like a capital H homage. Uh, yeah. And so all that to say, you know, I don't, I've never bought a squalor or, or a Steinhardt, although my collecting tendencies at one point had driven me in that direction. By the time I was spending that much money on watches, my taste moved on and I know when I realized it. I bought the 1972 Dan Henry and I really liked that watch. It was a cool alarm function. It had a cool alarm function. I mean, it was just, and it was good looking and it wore really well and I loved it. It was kind of, at the time I bought that watch, it was kind of an expensive purchase for me. I think it was 400 bucks and I was like, dude, I was like, dude, this is dope. Uh, and I wore the shit out of it. Um, and eventually I was like, you know what? This isn't it for me. This is not going to be a watch that, and I sold it. It was like the first watch I think I ever sold.
Andrew	It wasn't the thing.
Everett	I was like, this isn't the thing. And I don't want it. And so my personal taste, that was the point when I realized like, okay, now theoretically, I'm in that place where I might consider spending 550 on a Squalor or a Steinhardt perhaps. I probably would have tended towards Steinhardt over Squalor. But by then my tastes had evolved to the point where I was like, I just knew that wasn't going to be a watch that I was into. And so I just, I kind of like missed it. Right. I was spending 300, 400 bucks on a watch right at the time when I was, you know, I was starting to, you know, jump up into the, 400, 500 right at the same time as my tastes had evolved beyond getting the thing that. And so I don't, I don't know, Andrew, I think perhaps a company like Steel Diver Mercure is more accessible to the entry level collector. And so maybe it makes more sense. Maybe you can buy that watch. You know, there's a famous, I'll call him famous. There's a notorious perhaps, uh, watch you seek commenter, Houston real. Houston, I think it's Houston underscore real or whatever. He's a, I think he's a real estate guy from Houston.
Andrew	Probably. Yeah. That would be my, my guess.
Everett	And, uh, this fella is, he hangs out in F 71. I don't actually, I haven't been a watch to seek long enough to know if he's still a player over there or not, but he was posting very frequently at the, at my peak watch you seek time. And you know, he was argumentative sometimes about like, why would you get this thing when you could get this Chinese mushroom brand for less? And it's one-to-one spec'd and it's just a better watch. And I respected him because he was sort of knew what he was about and kind of knew what he was saying, but it occurred to me.
Andrew	Don't pay for the label.
Everett	Yeah, right. Right. It occurred to me at that time like, oh, there's a division here, right? There's a division between what people value. And, you know, I remember at the time not talking about those conversations directly, but certainly talking about them indirectly, you know, seeing the way this person, a real human, I assume, was interacting with watches kind of taught me a lot about what I value because I understood pretty early that I valued watches differently than this fellow. And exploring that, you know, whether purposefully or not, kind of taught me a lot like, oh, no, I'm not attracted to that. I don't want that watch that you're saying is good. But maybe it's important for me to figure out why. Maybe I need to understand why. And I'm not sure. Because he's not wrong, right? He's not wrong.
Andrew	If you're looking for bang for your buck, most Chinese mushroom brands are going to provide a really good bang for your buck in almost any design that already exists. Can we call them factory brands?
Everett	I feel better about factory.
Andrew	I'm okay with that. Let's, let's do factory brands. These factory brands are gonna give you a really good sub $1,000 watch because they're the folks that are, I mean, cause they're the people that are doing it already in any way. That's right.
Everett	These are actually the people that are probably making most of the sub $1,000 watches that you can buy today.
Andrew	And for some of the better ones, you're going to be getting watches that cases from a lot of Swiss brands are coming out of their same factory, right? That this is a thing that the Chinese manufacturing industry is watches.
Everett	And we're going to come back to this topic because we want to talk about what China means to watches. And I think we've got a few episodes coming up, maybe perhaps next week, we're going to touch on a little bit, but we're going to revisit what China means to watches and we're going to try to do so meaningfully.
Andrew	So we're building it out. It's going to take us a couple of weeks to frame appropriately. That's right. Because China's a much bigger thing in watches than I think anyone is ready to give it credit for. Give her credit for?
Everett	I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. Him?
Andrew	Them? China's not plural.
Everett	Well, it depends on who you ask, right? If you ask a Taiwanese person.
Andrew	Yes. Last thing that I would like to talk about, and I don't know if we have to fully opine on it, but within this context of homages and copies and reissues, which we didn't really even get to, I don't know how we got here this quickly. There's a brand specifically that I want to talk about, and it's a brand that kind of causes me some confusion. because I don't know how to feel. So I simultaneously love it and I'm kind of cringy about it. My mind's telling me no, but my body, uh, uncle Seiko. Yeah. And I don't know that we've talked about this before. Well, I know we have, we have privately. Absolutely. I don't know that we've recorded a conversation about this before. Um, Uncle Seiko does some really good stuff.
Everett	Uncle Straps. Let's let's be clear. Uncle Straps.
Andrew	Is it Uncle Straps now? Was that the? Oh, it is Uncle Straps now.
Everett	So several months ago, without much pomp or circumstance, the name of the uncle was changed from Uncle Seiko to Uncle Straps. We can only surmise as to the background there.
Andrew	Yeah. A corporate cease and desist letter was delivered probably by one.
Everett	One has to imagine. One has to imagine.
Andrew	So he signed for it and then promptly changed his name. I don't think that's derogate. I think that's just, that's just is.
Everett	I will note that. So, uh, uncle Seiko, the uncle is Ty, right? Uh, so, uh, no, no, that's, that's different. Uncle Seiko is a brand owner and this guy's been in the game for a billion years. He's... Since the game began. He's been making really cool products for ages now. We've asked him on the show and he's politely declined or perhaps politely punted. And I think that maybe has something to do, you know, he's not on a lot of podcasts. I think he's been on a handful. But it's not something he's doing a lot. I do think he's a pastor in his personal life, and I suspect that there's reasonable concerns about going on an irreverent podcast such as ours. If you're in that position, that's fine. He's been polite and not rude to us. In any event, he's been making fantastic products. I have several of his bracelets. Yeah, same, right. My Z1, my SKX, which is still in regular rotation, has an Uncle Seiko Z199. Yeah, yeah, no, he does fantastic stuff. In fact, when he issued his HoloNLink Z199s, I was inspired, homage, as it will, to incorporate some of that design language into my watch, into the Foster. I owe as much of that to Uncle Seiko as I do to any other actual Seiko product that exists. So all that to say, he's a really cool guy. He's doing really cool products, but he made a couple of decisions in the last handful of years that I think were... And maybe it's just one. Maybe it's just one. Maybe 18 months ago now, Uncle Seiko released a dial. a SARB, a salmon colored SARB dial, which was Seiko branded. It was a SARB dial, but salmon. And there was one notable difference, I think, which is at the six o'clock, there is the word Uncle Seiko, the words Uncle Seiko, I believe. So you could, you could A, in passing, see it as a Seiko dial, but also verify it wasn't trying to pass itself off as the real thing all the way, right?
Andrew	At the very six o'clock though. It's not, it wasn't like very small print, right? It's the, it's in the Swiss made. That's right. Minute ring of the dial.
Everett	Very, very small text. So in passing like, Oh, that's cool. Um, and that for, for whatever reason, that decision, I think kind of irked people. I think it, felt like a step too far. If I had to prognosticate, extrapolate, interpolate, I'm not sure mathematically speaking which is the right phrase, I might say that that decision led... That would be my guess too, yeah. To the name change perhaps. It was just... I think everybody who saw that realized like, oh, this is different. This is different.
Andrew	This is bigger. This is different than creating secondary market parts. It's different than making something better.
Everett	Or, or recreating an old Omega or a Seiko bracelet.
Andrew	It's, it's using somebody else's branding and then signing it. Like I can't go do a Banksy mural on a wall and put my name at the bottom.
Everett	Well, you could. There's a lot of people that do actually and they make a lot of money. But you shouldn't.
Andrew	You shouldn't. This is a weird choice for somebody who'd been really calculated and really successful and doing really cool stuff up to this point. I love the style. I didn't really like that he had also been stockpiling SARBs in a SARB shortage point, but that was a whole other Yeah. Thing. Uh, but that's what he did. He, he stockpiled SARBs and then made a new dial with Seiko branding and, and his own and then sold them and not much of a markup.
Everett	No, it felt like the price was reasonable. There weren't very many of these things. I don't, I, if I had to guess it was, in the two digits total, maybe, maybe low three digits total of these things. Um, but yeah, no, this was an event. I don't, I don't feel like I'm, it's important for me to take a position on it. I will say it definitely peaked my whatever that, that like, Hmm, what am I feeling right now?
Andrew	Yeah, that's right. It peaked that, Because it was unique to the modding and homage. It was unique to this environment of changing watches because modding watches is, I think, as much a part of the watch industry as anything else. Yeah. Watch modding is huge. And watch modding has inspired so many of our beloveds, right? These small brands. these breakout brands, so many of them began by watch modding. Like, I'm going to make this better, different. I want to make the watch that I want to have.
Everett	But up to that point, we've seen, you know, Pete and Yaboki's, you know, we've seen these guys recreating these dials, but being very deliberate. not to use corporate branding, right? You know, this is a Omega Seamaster 300 dial, but it says Yoboki's on it, right? It doesn't say Omega.
Andrew	Or it says nothing.
Everett	That's right. It doesn't, most importantly, it doesn't say Omega on it. It doesn't say Seiko on it. Cause it's not theirs. And this is the first time I can remember seeing one of these people kind of breach that levy.
Andrew	And it was, yeah, it was a thing. I feel like he would want his branding on it. Yeah. He deserves the credit that he did it better. He did it cooler and he gave them credit and took, right?
Everett	Right. Yeah. What are your thoughts? Hey, look, you guys at home, I'm talking to you, Susie and Joey and Bobby. Uh, what do you think about this? Reach out to us. I'd love to have a conversation with you. Um, not you, Josh. I don't want to have a conversation with you. Or Mike. I'm just joking. I do want to have a conversation with you as well. Definitely not Mike. But mostly Susie, Joey, and Bobby. Uh, yeah. What do you think of this? Because it is, uh, it's a topic that I, that I think everybody was a little reticent about because this is a beloved brand. This is a beloved fellow in the industry, you know, someone I don't want to dislike, but I'm also, Confused. I'm confused. I've got some questions about it. So, yeah. And now he's Uncle Straps.
Andrew	Yeah. Yeah. He got a C and D probably the same week of the release. Yeah.
Everett	It's hard. It's hard to say. Well, he did two drops, I think, on that.
Andrew	Yeah. He did an ice blue. He's done some interesting mods that include Seiko branding, and that's a strange thing. I'm curious about it because it's different, right? He's not, He's not making a replica.
Everett	He's not making a counterfeit, but he's just shot like, like where do we draw? I think the question becomes where do we draw the line?
Andrew	Well, I think we draw the line at where a C and D is effective. I mean, let's be real here. Uh, when, when you start violating IP law, that's, that's the line.
Everett	Andrew, I don't think we've solved any of the world's problems tonight, but I do think we've had an interesting conversation. Is there anything you would like to add to this before we hustle this along? No. Other things, what you got? Andrew, what have you just put in front of me? I put my other thing in front of you.
Andrew	So I was a little drunk the other night and, uh, Watching Hot Ones. Is this going to hurt me? I mean, it depends on how much you decide to do. Is that going to hurt me? No. It's hot. So I was a little drunk the other night, I was watching Hot Ones and I was watching them do the last dab and I was like, I'm going to get the last dab. I'm going to I'm going to give it a go. My intent for tonight's other things, I was going to get six wings.
Everett	I just put a reasonable that's a reasonable last dab on a spoon.
Andrew	Mm hmm.
Everett	I just put a last dab on a spoon and took it to the face. We'll see what happens. I instantly this, I can feel you're going to get wet glands. Yep. Open it up.
Andrew	There's some good flavor to it. It's really tasty. It's very hot. It's a little bit, uh, like, Hmm. It's a little bit more acidic than I want. I want a little bit more balance to it, but my intent was to get six wings.
Everett	I was thinking it was not acidic enough. I was thinking I could use just a little bit more acidity. Interesting. It's a little earthy.
Andrew	It is earthy. So my other thing for this week is the last dab as, uh, created by Heatnist. It's 30 bucks on Amazon for a, this is a five ounce bottle, five ounce bottle. Yep. This is a really good wing sauce. It's good. Yeah. You know what? It's really good wing sauce. And what I, what I also came to realize is that I am just blown away by the people who fully melt down eating that. And in feeling that way, having watched so many people destroyed by the last dab, I realized that I'm actually the one with the problem, that they're the normal people, that this is a phenomenal wing sauce. It's super spicy. Very spicy. So I've got it. Long burn, right? Full mouth burn. You just took a dab of it.
Everett	So I want to hear your... So I put, I don't know, what would you say? That was a half teaspoon? Yeah. Maybe a quarter teaspoon, quarter to a half a teaspoon on a spoon. I took it to the face. I put it, I turned it upside down, put it on my tongue. I didn't swish or anything, but I ate it from there.
Andrew	I've got heat all around my lips. Yeah. It gets your lips, even if it doesn't touch them.
Everett	It's interesting. My head instantly, all of the sweat glands on my head instantly activated. I felt them like in sequence. I can feel it in my chest now, but I, it's not overwhelming. Like I can totally, I could totally continue. Uh, very hot, but good hot. Yes. Not the type of hot that I'm like, fuck my life.
Andrew	But with that amount of heat, I want a little bit more flavor.
Everett	A little bit more flavor. Yeah, there wasn't quite enough flavor there for me.
Andrew	Just a touch more flavor. Yeah. Which is why I say I want a little more citrus or maybe just something.
Everett	I put enough on the spoon that I would get the full effect of the flavor and there's not a ton of flavor there.
Andrew	There's just not quite enough.
Everett	There's good flavor. This is a hot first, flavor second.
Andrew	This is a little bit of a novelty sauce, which I sort of expected. For me, it's still Chimay. Chimay is still my number one super hot Sauce.
Everett	Which Chimay, so... Chimay Red. Yeah, Chimay Red is the money.
Andrew	That's the... The yellow and the black are really good. The black is a little... It's been a minute since we talked about hot sauce on the show. It has been. The black's a little sweeter than I want, but the red is money.
Everett	I'm still a pretty big fan of the Painapple. Oh yeah. Who makes Painapple? That's my go-to. Puckerbutt was super good. The Painapple is... So I've got the Puckerbutt Reaper X, but it's not tasty enough. Oh, really? I loved that. Painapple by Peck's Peppers. That is my jam and it is very hot.
Andrew	My plan for tonight was to have six wings. I was going to tell Sam to throw them in the oven when we went upstairs. It just, I couldn't make it happen because also I think you guys probably appreciate not listening to us eat wings on air. But that's my other thing. This is a good wing sauce. Now, I will say, I've also had Da Bomb, which was, for the first couple seasons, was their number 10. And it's not good. No, it's terrible.
Everett	It's really bad.
Andrew	It doesn't taste good. It's not spicy.
Everett	It's just spicy with actual bad flavor. I think Da Bomb is spicier than this.
Andrew	Or it hurts worse. Yes, it's objectively not spicier. But it hurts worse. It hurts worse. It tastes worse. Tastes terrible. The bomb tastes terrible. It's super bad. But if you're looking for like a good novelty hot wing sauce to throw in your fridge and just and break one out every once in a while, this is it. This is going to be my like, I want some fucking hot wings right now.
Everett	Don't sleep on pineapple either.
Andrew	No, no, no, no, definitely don't. Although, and this is coming, I really like pineapple. I'm not a huge fan of pineapple flavor. And it does have that.
Everett	It's really bright.
Andrew	I do still like pineapple, but the last stab, we've, we've done it and we've tried it. Sean Evans, if you'd like to talk to us, we're here and we're ready. We're ready to be, we're ready for our. And we will, we'll make it through all 10 wings. We'll be a boring interview because we're not interesting. We're not. We're not attractive. Definitely not.
Everett	And the wings will not hurt. You're pretty attractive. And you like a Sean Evans doppelganger.
Andrew	I've, I've been told by multiple people that Sean Evans and I look very much alike. I think I'm older than Sean Evans. So I think he looks like me.
Everett	Do you think, I bet you guys are the same age. I bet you're like exactly the same age or if, or he might be a year older than you. Uh, Andrew, I've got another thing. Do me. This is so I'm in that moment where I've just had the hot sauce.
Andrew	Oh, he's actually, he's, he's a little bit older than me. He's 37. There we go.
Everett	I I'm in that moment. I'm in that moment where the music plays on like, Oh yeah.
Andrew	It's a little spicy. It hangs on right in the back of your tongue. It just holds that hold.
Everett	That's going to hold for, I've got a whole head heat is that's what I'm experiencing right now. Whole head heat.
Andrew	That's a, that's a good wing. This is like, a dozen wings and your toast kind of amount.
Everett	It's portion control. It's been a while since we've done another thing that was something we didn't like. It has been. I've got another thing that I didn't like.
Andrew	Are you going to say the last dab? No. That would be a really interesting episode.
Everett	So a few years ago, uh, let me get the exact year. I thought I had it. And then I was like a second guessing myself. So 2021 big, big year on movies. 2021 was a big year in movies. It was sort of the like post COVID movie, you know, nothing. We're still not really going to the theater, blah, blah, blah.
Andrew	We're hoping everyone, everything's post COVID though. It's just smack dab in the middle.
Everett	There was a movie that came out that year that got tons of international award and Oscar, Buzz with a fantastic cast, a fantastic cast. So let me just, let me just read off a few of these people because geez, Benedict Cumberbatch, Jesse Plemons, Kirsten Dunst. Oh, okay. So this movie was written by Jane Campion, directed by Jane Campion, Academy Award for Best Directing, Academy Award for Best Picture. Um, Golden Globe for Best Motion Picture, and on and on. Look, this movie was very highly praised. It's called Power of the Dog. It's a Western. Beautiful, beautiful movie. Really good acting. Reasonably emotionally deep. Good emotional depth to this movie. I was home alone this last weekend and I just kind of took a flyer. I was like, I don't need to go to bed for a couple of hours. This movie is a couple of hours. Let me just, this movie I've never watched. Let me watch it for free. So I turned it on, put my phone down, sat down, watch this movie. This is the most painfully boring movie I have ever scene in my life. And I've watched a lot of boring movies.
Andrew	I loved this movie.
Everett	I didn't like some boring movies. I think this movie was the most there are in the entire movie, two things that happen. And the first one is totally nothing. There are two events in the entire movie, and the first one is like, when you really think about it, it's like, I don't have to worry about spoilers at this point, right? So you've got this entire movie. You don't see any of the things that happen. There's a wedding. You don't get to see it. You get to see Benedict Cumberbatch being mean to Kirsten Dunst about playing the piano.
Andrew	I really liked this movie.
Everett	And then you're going to see the ending, which I won't spoil just because it's actually kind of the most important part of the movie. But the second thing that happens is like, okay, that was interesting, but it happens two fucking hours in. I have never seen a movie where so little happened. I love this. It was beautiful. The acting was phenomenal, and it was still so Fucking boring, Andrew.
Andrew	It's because it was real. No, that was that was. No, it wasn't real. It was boring. Funny story about this movie for the first like 30 minutes. I really thought that Jesse Plemons was Jim Gaffigan. I was like, why is Jim Gaffigan in this movie?
Everett	And Jesse Plemons is phenomenal. And why is he like what is happening? You know him and Kirsten Dunst are married in real life. I do.
Andrew	Which is confusing. Confusing is putting a single brand on your own shit.
Everett	Have you watched this Elizabeth Olsen? Yeah. Anyway, anyway, I'll move on.
Andrew	I thought this movie- I really thought he was Jim Gaffigan though.
Everett	My experience was, so here I am about 45 minutes in and I'm like, fuck me. I really hope something happens. And I was, I was conflicted. Because I was like, this is going to start to be good because everything is so good. The screenwriting is really good. The acting is really good. Like the emotional tension from scene to scene was really good. The scenes were just stunning. They're beautiful. I was like, this is gonna get good. It was good. But nothing fucking happened. Andrew, nothing happened the whole movie.
Andrew	No, and you were totally involved in it. No, I wasn't.
Everett	I was bored out of my mind.
Andrew	No. I mean, it's an, it's an award winner, right? Most award winning movies aren't like exciting.
Everett	I am prepared to say that this is the most overrated movie I have ever seen. Avatar. No. Avatar is fantastic because it's engaging and really good. This, nothing fucking happened. No, nothing happens. No, it was like watching, uh, and then, and then the worst part was you would like go from one scene to the next and you'd realize they tell you, Oh, a bunch of shit just happened.
Andrew	Why the fuck didn't you show me? It was like watching, uh, what was that oil boom movie with, uh, Daniel, there will be blood, which is one of the greatest movies ever made.
Everett	So boring. I, I feel so I mentally, as I was watching this compared it because they're similar in a lot of ways. very quiet, very sort of serene, but also dark. I think there will be blood did that thing perfectly. And I think power of the dog totally fell on its face. I didn't, I got the awards. I love there will be blood. I think it's one of my favorite movies of all time. Power of the dog, not so.
Andrew	So I will never watch either of those movies again.
Everett	Here's the difference. There will be blood. the emotional tension builds and is resolved in a way you can see it. Also, the bowling alley scene is just at the end of there will be blood is perhaps my favorite.
Andrew	So it was real. I think a dude died there.
Everett	Hey, my favorite monologue of all time. I drink your milkshake. Oh my gosh. Holy shit. And then the bowling pit. Yeah, look, Because Dan of Day Lewis is a crazy person. Those two movies do not compare because in there will be blood. They're both equally boring Westerns. You saw the shit. That's fair. And in Power of the Dog, they just alluded to the shit. Like, show me the shit.
Andrew	In fairness, when you said Power of the Dog, I thought you were talking about the dog movie that came out a couple of years ago.
Everett	Marley and Me. Love it.
Andrew	Not that one. There was another dog movie. Marley and Me. I looked it up. I saw it and I was like, oh, I remember this movie. I watched it. I really enjoyed it. I will not watch it again.
Everett	Andrew, an hour and five minutes in. Anything you want to add? I'll drink your milkshake. Hey, you guys, I want to thank you once again for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast, where we just do what we do. We drink beer and talk about watches a little bit and also movies. Look, check us out on our website, WatchClicker.com. That's where we post every single episode of this podcast, but also articles, reviews, and reasonably cool shit. WatchClicker.com. You can also check us out on the socials at WatchClicker or at 40and20, underscore WatchClicker. And most importantly, if you want to support us, and we really, really, we hope you do, you can do that at Patreon.com slash 40and20. Look, this all costs money. Microphones, expensive. hardware expensive software expensive. We do this for basically free. And we are so thankful for those of you who have supported us on Patreon. And if not, go check it out. It doesn't cost a lot. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life and other things we like.