Episode 226 - The Affordable Icons

Published on Thu, 23 Feb 2023 17:23:36 -0800

Synopsis

Andrew and Everett discuss their criteria for determining iconic affordable watches currently in production. They define an iconic affordable watch as one that meets three criteria: price under $1,000, original design, and a sense of legacy or staying power. They then go through various watch brands and models that they believe fit these criteria, including Casio G-Shock, Seiko models like the SKX and Turtle, Citizen Nighthawk, Hamilton Pulsar, Bulova Lunar Pilot, and others. Along the way, they share personal anecdotes and insights about the watches and the role they have played in the watch community.

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 1420 The Watch Clicker podcast with your host Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Everett	Everett, how are you? Fine. I need one of these beers. Hold on. It's OK. Yeah. No, I'm really good, man. I feel like that's the way I start every.
Andrew	Every. You're always really good. You know why? Because you're in my or you're in our recording studio.
Everett	Drinking beer, drinking some beer, man. It's been a day. It's been a day. It's been a week. It's also Tuesday. It's supposed to start snowing.
Andrew	And it's only yesterday you didn't work.
Everett	I worked yesterday. OK. Yeah. I worked yesterday.
Andrew	Mailman didn't.
Everett	So neither did the courts. Yeah. My staff was a little grumbly about it. When we got to, when I got to work, I was in the elevator with one of my legal assistants, my receptionist, just coincidentally, that doesn't happen very often, and the building manager. And the building manager was like, Oh, I'm so glad someone's open. I think there's only like three businesses in the whole nine floors that are open today.
Andrew	Thanks fucker.
Everett	And I'm like, Janet, please. I really don't need you to be.
Andrew	No, but we stand to lose potentially one or two, maybe more work days this week. Yeah, it was a good idea to work on Monday.
Everett	No, it's President's Day. Why? We do not need President's Day off. Get your ass into work. Build some time.
Andrew	Because of America and shit. America. George Washington would want that. That's right.
Everett	Bill the hours. Right, man. Anyway, I'm doing well.
Andrew	Andrew, how are you? I am good. As you said, it's Tuesday. So tail end of weekend as usual. I had a I had a really good series of meals over the last couple days. So yesterday I made Peking chicken in lieu of duck. It's traditionally with duck, but I used chicken because that's what I had. It turned out terrific. Did you use the whole chicken? Whole chicken. Okay. Cause I always have a couple broiler chickens in the freezer. Sure. Um, and I was like, that sounds really good. And because, uh, we're doing a dairy free thing cause Mark is, showing some dairy sensitivities. So that's like, eh, life is just easier if you don't eat dairy. Like you can make your choices, but at home we're kind of moving away from it just to let him have cheeseburgers and shit at school. Um, anyway, it means that a lot of like Southeast Asian and Asian cooking, cause there's not a whole lot of dairy products in it. Right. So I was like, Oh, what can I do? Peking chicken. Number one, it turned out great. I didn't quite- Did the breast turn out okay? I feel- The breast turned out money. What didn't turn out well is the skin. I didn't get a good crisp on the skin, but the marinade I used soaked well into the meat. So I didn't, I'm not missing the crispy skin. I would have liked to have had it, but I didn't miss out on it. I made Peking pancakes to go with it. I fucking love those. And then today with leftover chicken made a big old mess of fried rice. Nice. I made spring rolls to go with it, too.
Everett	I was thinking maybe the white meat wouldn't wouldn't lend itself well to baking, but it did.
Andrew	And I think it's because I because I did a good long marinade on it, which is probably also why you didn't get a great. Yeah. You know, I think the skin was was entirely my fault. I let too much I think I was at just a touch too high temperature. Uh, and there was too much, um, of the marinade in the bottom of the pan when I started. So it kind of steamed it. Um, cause I got some char, but I didn't get good crisp and I, I that's whatever, but that gets corrected just by some taste. Um, but the meat turned out great. The white meat is, wasn't dry at all. Um, which is probably also a function of having too much, cooking liquid in the bottom. I was just kind of steaming it the whole time. So I don't know. It's a give or take, but the flavor turned out great. Good baking flavor throughout. Um, but yeah, so I'm just like riding the high of having two like really good fresh cooked back to back dinners. Uh, cause I hate leftovers. They're just never the right temperature. And we eat a lot of leftovers cause I cook, you know, and then we eat it for a couple of days and then cook a new meal. Uh, and it just never, it just never quite scratches the itch. Sure. there's a really good possibility we're going to get some snow tonight. And I'm excited about that. I'm not so excited cause I will still have to go into work, but, um, you know, whatever.
Everett	So the other reason I asked you about your chicken, yeah, I've been, I've been cooking a lot of thighs. I'm a chicken thigh man.
Andrew	Thighs are the truth. Chicken breasts are for a very, very few unique applications.
Everett	And I've been cooking them really deep. So I, I've got to, like one does, Like one does. I have a thermometer, right? But I've been, I've been doing like huli huli chicken, you know, turning every five minutes and turning for like 45 minutes to an hour and taking it to instead of like, I think a lot of people pull their chicken right at 165, which I think is what you should do for breasts. I've been taking my thighs to like 195.
Andrew	Interesting.
Everett	Just keeping it going. And I will tell you for a thigh, that is the truth.
Andrew	I do thighs on the grill. And then I put a baking dish in the oven with like a shitload of butter at like 250. And once they come off the grill, I finish them in the butter and just let them soak and braise in the butter for 20, 30 minutes. And holy cow, like chicken thighs need more fat.
Everett	Well, next time you do a thigh, take it, take it like super far. Like go like 195. I mean, you can like 200 is totally fine.
Andrew	I don't thermometer thighs.
Everett	Oh, you should.
Andrew	I feel thighs.
Everett	I just... Get in there, boy. Get in there, get the thermometer going.
Andrew	I temp everything but chicken thighs.
Everett	Take one to like 200. Okay. It'll change your life. Okay. Yeah.
Andrew	Does it like melt and get kind of like brisket-y, like pulled? Yeah.
Everett	You rest them? You don't have to. I mean, you can, but no, I don't. I usually just take them right off. It doesn't get melty, but... Do you like bone in like that?
Andrew	Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yep. Always with the bone. I can see that.
Everett	Always with the bone. But we, alas, 40 and 20.
Andrew	We talk about food, drinks, life, and other things we like. This is what kind of stuff you got to deal with when we're.
Everett	It's only seven minutes in. Relax, people. Just chill out, okay?
Andrew	This is, you know, early days. We could go 15 minutes like this.
Everett	Just relax, okay? Put it in third, slow down, chill the fuck out. We're going to be here the whole hour.
Andrew	And probably then some. And then some. Because of America and stuff.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. In any event, we are talking about watches.
Andrew	We're there.
Everett	We're there. We made it. We're talking about watches. Do you want to intro our episode this week, Andrew?
Andrew	This is your idea. I'd like you to intro it.
Everett	So we were talking about iconic watches. It's like a thing that people talk about. What does that mean? But specifically, we wanted to do an episode, have a conversation about Iconic Affordables. What affordable watches that are currently in production today are iconic? And that's fine, right? You can say those words, but it quickly becomes apparent when you start that conversation that maybe iconic can mean a whole bunch of things.
Andrew	Yeah. And it's hard to reach in the affordable.
Everett	That's right. That's right.
Andrew	This turned out to be harder than I expected.
Everett	The first part of our research or our conversation about this episode was, okay, what does iconic mean? And I sort of started with some parameters and then that developed. Because I didn't like them.
Andrew	And I felt like you were kind of like on the defense because I was playing semantics, but in this context, words matter.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. That's right. In any event, we did, I think, get to a pretty neat set of standards for affordable, iconic watches. And really it comes down to three things, and they're immutable, but flexible.
Andrew	I think you can apply these categories to anywhere on the price spectrum.
Everett	I think that's right.
Andrew	To iconic. And I think we distilled what makes traditionally iconic watches iconic.
Everett	And you may or may not have a different definition, and that's fine. And we're happy to hear you out. But for us, the first criteria was price. We're talking about affordable iconic watches. And so we had talked about a few numbers. Ultimately, we're going to stick with $1,000 for now. With inflation, that number maybe changes at some point. But for right now, and for this conversation, we're gonna stay at a thousand bucks. So these are all going to be watches that can be purchased, if not under a thousand, then certainly right there.
Andrew	Yeah, a sneeze within.
Everett	There has to be an original-ness of design. Now, here we are in 2023, and every watch that will ever be made has more or less been made, right?
Andrew	That people are going to like.
Everett	That's right. With that said, and I think that we agreed as we sort of moved through this, there are some watches that are more original than others. Certainly there are some watches that are just not original, like that's not original. But the watches that we've picked for today's show all bring something to the table. and are original in their own right. Yes. And the third category, this was the hardest to pin down, because we talked about some watches that but for this category may not have, may have made the list, but otherwise didn't. A little hard to pin down, but generally some sort of legacy, some sort of staying power, some sort of what appears to be long term role in the conversation. So be it popularity, be it excitement around the release, some sort of staying power in the watch conversation.
Andrew	Yeah. It's something timeless, right? That, that will not, and this is different than the design, than the uniqueness, than the, than the DNA, but this is something that we'll never, look back on it and be like, whew, this isn't bell bottoms, right? This isn't hammer pants, which were cool for a flash. This is something that we'll continue on.
Everett	Yeah. And you use that word timeless and, and I'm not sure I, I love that term. Uh, because I think that some of these designs might be some of the watches we're going to talk about sort of are in a, in a place in the design, but they're, but their reputation and the love for them exists notwithstanding. So I accept. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the criteria. So you can send your objections, uh, to will, to will absolutely. And, and go from there. But for now, that's what we're rolling with.
Andrew	Can we get one out of the way just right away?
Everett	Well, it sounds like you're gonna, sounds like maybe I don't have a choice.
Andrew	You do not. The winner of the iconic affordable category is hands down G-Shock across the board.
Everett	Yeah, I'd say specifically the 5600.
Andrew	5600, but take any SKU.
Everett	Perhaps the 6900, perhaps the Casioque. Yeah. Those three watches I think are the ones.
Andrew	When G-Shock arrived, they did a special thing that has been emulated time and again by many other brands. And though they come out with new stuff, they have the staying power in that a lot of their designs really haven't changed. The technology has been significantly upgraded. They've introduced new things. They've obviously ended things, but by and large, G-Shock set the tone and has held it.
Everett	Perhaps the iconic affordable watch of all time. Perhaps. The most iconic affordable watch ever made, G-Shock 5600.
Andrew	Yes. As worn by everyone. Right. Everyone. Yeah. So. But we're not going to talk about it a lot. There's no need.
Everett	Right. We don't have to defend that one. That's the winner and a show.
Andrew	Yeah. Cue the music. 14 minutes, what up? Let's move on. Yeah, I'd like that We need to talk about Seiko. Oh interesting. Weird, right? I didn't see that coming Seiko's done some things Throughout history, you know, they shook up the watch world and almost ended it And then they rejoined the party once the courts crisis ended. And they've done some really cool stuff. And I think the first thing we need to talk about is the SKX.
Everett	Yeah, we're going to call this category the SKX, but really this is a direct successor to the 1988 Seiko 7002. Descended? Descendant, successor, and the 7002 has, I mean, if you saw a 7002 on the street, you might say, oh, nice SKX.
Andrew	I mean, there's a lot of people who believe that Schwarzkopf was wearing an SKX in the pre-SKX days.
Everett	Not true.
Andrew	Because he wasn't. That's right. I've also seen some interesting discussions that he wasn't wearing a Rolex on the other wrist. That's neither here nor there, and maybe for another episode. The 7002 gives birth to the SKX.
Everett	So 1988 and 1996, I believe, respectively. Yes.
Andrew	And here we have it. Right. This is arguably one of, if not the most iconic affordables for watch people.
Everett	I've written multiple articles about the iconic nature of the SKX. It is for me, because of where and how I came into watches, the iconic watch. And I realize it's a bit controversial. Some people like it, some people don't, but it's undisputably iconic, right?
Andrew	It came with familiar design in the 7002, a design that we were aware of, that we, was born, but not aware of it. We, the people at large were aware of, familiar with, it brought the new technology that wasn't even kind of new, but it brought the new hip cool technology in the way of an automatic movement.
Everett	What?
Andrew	That's fancy. And it was a steel. So between it being a well-spec'd, like kind of oddly well-spec'd watch.
Everett	ISO certified.
Andrew	Yeah. Right. Who does that at 120 bucks? Less, I'm sure when it came out.
Everett	Yeah. I think, I think MSRP on that thing was 180 or something when it came out. Yeah.
Andrew	But for most people in the watch world, this represents a thing, right? We've talked about it a lot that everyone starts with, either an SNK, an SKX, or something of the Mako family as their first true automatic watch, their first thoughtful purchase.
Everett	And that may be changing a little bit.
Andrew	There's a little hyperbole there, but that's it. Those are the pillars of the first like, I'm going to get a cool watch. I know about watches. Look at my SNK. Let's start a podcast. Look at my SKX. Look at my fucking Mako. But the Mako is not in the discussion. It's the SKX. And what it does for Seiko is it, is it grabs this huge chunk of the, not just the watch people, but also discerning consumers and people who are interested in a pro spec dive watch. It, it's kind of not something that gets done anymore. to grab that huge of a population, throw it at Macy's and it's actually still cool.
Everett	Yeah. There's some time and place things that were happening. And, and Seiko was the one wearing the prettiest dress at the end of the night, I guess. Shortest.
Andrew	Shortest dress at the end of the night. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Cause there's a lot of other moving pieces in the watch world at the, at in 1996 when the SKX comes out. 96. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds right. Within this category of Seiko, we have some other really important dive watches that have remained, unless you have something more to say on the SKX.
Everett	I don't, I don't, but I think I disapprove of your segue. I think that there's one other watch that we need to talk about side by side with the SKX before we talk about any of the others that we've identified. Which is, which is the Seiko Turtle. I think, The Seiko Turtle, an earlier design, 1976, I believe, is when the Turtle really comes into its own. And in many ways, and I think for a lot of people, that is kind of the watch that puts Seiko on the map. And here we are today, 2023, you can buy a turtle. Still, you can buy a couple of different iterations. You know, there's also 62 MIS, you know, Seiko has a number of watches that are important in that discussion. But for me, looking back historically, at least at the last 50 years or so in the affordable space, you get the tuna, not the tuna, the turtle. Did I say tuna? I meant turtle.
Andrew	That's okay.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. So you've got the turtle. you've got the SKX. And in the affordable space, I think those two watches sort of emerge to give Seiko whatever this thing is, this mantle in this affordable killer pro spec dive space, you know, we talked about the best dive watches, you've got Doxa, you've got, you know, Blancpain, you've got Rolex, you've got Omega, you've got all of these famous dive watches. And side-by-side with them, you've got Seiko. At 10% the price. At 10%, yeah, perhaps less oftentimes, right? And so it's these two watches for me that do that for Seiko. And I think they're really important. And I think that probably between those two watches, you've got strong adherence to either. And some people are just like, yes, yes, more, give me all. Both, please. Yes, thank you. You know, these are the two watches, I think, that really punch out above the rest. And obviously SKX has a special place in my heart, but I think it's hard to argue that it's more important long-term than the Turtle.
Andrew	I think so. And I think that's made evident by Seiko's decision to kill the line. and begin a new generation. Yeah. In the five series with the sex KX, which I don't think is necessarily an iconic watch. It's a continuation of the SKX. I think it, it holds the SKX up.
Everett	That's our 38 millimeter, you know, non rotating bezel. What, what I had deemed the dress KX and you've appended to the SKX, but you've got these, these, you know, one-to-one, 100 meter. Yep. Five sports.
Andrew	Within that, and I think made even more evident by the, it shows that Seiko recognizes what they have in the SKX when they release the SSK-OO series in the GMT featuring their new GMT movement in an SKX.
Everett	It's an SKX case, yeah. Or a 7002 case, perhaps. But yeah. Well, it's an SKX case. Sure.
Andrew	Because no one says, oh, it's a 7002. It's an SKX. Yeah. And you know, for whatever reason, the same watch needed an automatic movement to make the splash. And it made the splash. And Seiko knows what they have in that. And that's, I think, why they discontinued the SKX proper and bred it for a dozen different descendants and are continuing that line really, really deliberately.
Everett	Yeah. And, and as to the turtle, the turtle sort of emerged as the, um, entry level diver, Seiko pro diver, uh, and, and the SKX case has kind of not been relegated, but has been expanded and a more, entry-level fashion. So both of those watches being maintained in really discreet and different ways within Seiko's modern lineup.
Andrew	Yeah, because we'll never see a Prospex version, but we will always see Prospex Turtles.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	And iterations of it.
Everett	I still hold, I hold out hope for Seiko to come out with a $600 iteration of the SKX. I don't need an ISO certification,
Andrew	But you gave it to me already, so just keep it.
Everett	Yeah. I'd love to have, you know, ceramic, better movement.
Andrew	That was the bitch though. And that was kind of the charm of the SKX is that it was, it, it's not everything you want it to be, but it's way more than you need it to be. Yeah. Also within the Seiko world, we've already briefly touched on the SNK. I don't know if you agree with me that the SNK is exactly an iconic watch. Um, And I think it is an iconic watch simply because of the role it has played for watch people. Maybe it's not iconic in the watch world at large, which is what we're really trying to address here, is truly iconic affordables, whether it be the legacy, whether it be the true design that went into it, the splash that it made, whether it's a revolutionary thing that or a huge change or something that's just like, just, just got it right. Just that little tweak that we needed. But I think the SNK holds a really unique place in that it's a super boring pilot's field watch, but it's a hundred bucks.
Everett	The old pilot's field watch category.
Andrew	Uh, yeah, it's a hundred bucks and it represents the super special thing within the watch community that is frequently the first watch people mod. It's a hundred bucks. It's often, the first automatic watch that people buy because they're like, I'm going to make a really deliberate decision here. I'm going to spend a little bit of money. Exactly. 73 bucks on Amazon. I'm going to move up from a weekender and I'm going to get a piece of technology. That's not a smartwatch.
Everett	Yeah. You know, for me, cause I, I agree with everything you're saying. I don't disagree with a single word you're saying for me, I, it doesn't make my list. And so we're sort of, we're floating here, right? Which is okay. Maybe we'll call this an honorable mention. Just follow us. But for me, it lacks the originality of design. A hundred percent. There's nothing, there's nothing original on this watch. Not even a little bit. So the turtle's iconic design. The SKX is an iconic design. The SK, excuse me. The turtle is iconic. The SKX is iconic. The SNK is like, oh yeah, it's a watch.
Andrew	It looks like 90,000 other SKUs that are out there in the world right now.
Everett	I see that. That's why it's an honorable mention.
Andrew	I accept. But that SKU holds a special place in the watch world. True. Even though it's boring.
Everett	We do have a couple of other watches in Seiko's repertoire from the last 25, 30 years that I think make this list in a more than honorable mention fashion. I agree. Uh, one of those for me has to be the Seiko Sumo. Okay. Not the most popular watch in Seiko's lineup, but it does, it, it is a design, right? That watch is a design. It's beloved people. They're still selling them. And I think it's phenomenal.
Andrew	It's, it's certainly a pillar of the, of, of the Seiko pro spec world, right? They provided options, which is, is unique to Seiko within the space. With Rolex, you could get a sub, get a sea dweller. With Omega, you can get a, oh boy, why is the name eluding me? A Seamaster? A Seamaster.
Everett	There's the one. Where is he going with this?
Andrew	Uh, whatever. Um, Seiko did a thing where they're like, hey, here's our five offerings. They're all different in very real ways. Not just, oh, this one has a different dial color. They have, they offered these very different options. So you got to pick, you weren't boxed in to, Well, this is what we have. Sorry. You may get one of these two options or you make this choice or you may not. Seiko did a thing where they were really appealing to consumers and it worked because they came up with some awesome stuff and they put it all to market and said, let's go.
Everett	And then one more watch, one more watch we're going to talk about before we move on from Seiko, because this episode could be dedicated to Seiko.
Andrew	Entirely because of Seiko's design.
Everett	And arguably, this watch is not under a thousand bucks, but it arguably is. We're going to just throw the word out there. I've already said it mistakenly, but Seiko Tuna.
Andrew	Available in nine million different iterations and introduced the shrouded case in an accessible manner.
Everett	What we're talking about generally is that shrouded case watch that you know and love, available in quartz, available in anodigy, perhaps most famously in the Marine Master iteration, which is never going to be what I would call affordable, but relatively is an affordable watch. But the Seiko Tuna, it fits its iconic If there is a definition of iconic, you just throw a picture of this in here because it absolutely fits the bill. Staying power.
Andrew	And a design that was then adopted into a dozen other lines. There are people who have done, who have had custom shrouds CNC'd for watches.
Everett	There are services available to get other watches turned into tunas.
Andrew	That's iconic. That's iconic. That changed the game. That's right. I found a Prospex street series, tuna safari edition. I didn't send any links because there were too many. I like it a lot. Can you buy that and give it to me? It is $459 after a coupon. I don't know where you get a coupon, but it says after coupon on watch shopping.
Everett	Do you get it out of the Sunday paper?
Andrew	Probably a Tuesday paper. That's not one they want people to have. Fair enough. Um, but that said that's that. I mean, that's like introducing titanium or carbon fiber. It changed the idea of what a case should look like, what a case should do.
Everett	That's huge. I'm looking at a watch rapport. Marine Master Prospects, Tuna, Spring Drive, 600 meter watch. And god damn.
Andrew	How much money is that?
Everett	A lot. Like many monies.
Andrew	Twenty five hundred monies?
Everett	Thirty four. That's more monies. Yeah. OK, so we've now talked about we've now talked about Casio in particular in the G-Shock. Oh, OK. We've talked about Seiko. And I think it's fair for us to say, if you're looking for iconic, affordable watches, we've covered already really the most obvious picks. In my mind, for the last 25 years available today, we've covered the best possible choices, but we've got to... The most obvious also. Yeah, and maybe that's what I mean. The most obvious choices. And I think all of these watches are fantastic. Everybody who's gotten into this game has looked at these watches, talked about these watches, thought about these watches. If you wanted to have icons, a collection full of affordable icons, I think all of the watches we've talked about thus far could very, should very well be on your list and probably in your collection.
Andrew	And if they weren't already on your radar, Stop slacking on your icon collecting.
Everett	But Andrew, you brought up some fun examples and I'd like you to pull one of yours out because I loved I loved your additions. I sort of proposed a list and you came up with some really awesome additions that I was like, that's so obvious. Why didn't I get there?
Andrew	OK, so we'll stick with Seiko in the way of the alpinist. And we're talking the twin stick alpinist, right? Because there's been a lot of iterations of alpinist, some true to the original, some changes, but we're talking internal rotating bezel, four o'clock crown alpinist. And the reason I think this is iconic. Cause you own one? It redefined the alpinist. It went from in the mind at large, the three-hander to
Everett	the twin stick. From the laurels of old to a something new, different, and basically unparalleled, unmatched, unhomaged in the watch world.
Andrew	Yes. It took an iconic watch in the way of its legacy and said, that's fine. We don't care. We're going to do it better because we can. And then they did do it better. These are available all day, every day. I own one. I love it. I fucked it up. I still wear it though. It doesn't keep time. This, this, and, and this is on our list every time when we're talking about objectively best sport watches that are affordable. This is, I mean, these are probably about 800 bucks now, um, in the zone at least. Uh, that's it though. They're super versatile. I love them. This is a game changer in the way of redefining a thing and landing it.
Everett	I love this watch. I still don't own one and I need to get one.
Andrew	Do you want mine?
Everett	I'll sell it to you for a good deal. I think I want an 017. Um, yeah, it's great. I think you'd be hard pressed. to find a better iconic affordable available today. All of the watches we've talked about are in the game. This has got a fantastic movement. It's a good looking watch. A hundred years from now, this watch is still going to be cool.
Andrew	And still going to be attractive because it's also boring.
Everett	Andrew, can I talk about a watch from a different company that you added to the list that I was trying to get you to talk about? Yeah, do it. The watch that we haven't talked about in way too long, because we talked about it so much that I think at some point we're like, we've got to stop talking about that watch, but the Citizen Nighthawk.
Andrew	And we're not talking. So there's a touch of a caveat here. The Citizen Nighthawk we're talking about was discontinued about two years ago. But it can still be purchased brand new, widely available. You can still get them brand new in box. Citizen rebranded the Nighthawk series. There's still analogs available, but not the watch we're talking about.
Everett	We're talking about the Citizen Nighthawk BJ7000-52E. This is a solar watch from Citizen with a giant dial, a GMT function, solar power, date, three hands, plus a fourth hand, and a slide roll. It is like nothing else that has ever existed, there is perhaps some comparisons that could be drawn between this and the Navitimer, just in terms of busyness and, you know, that aesthetic.
Andrew	I even think about some of the Gavox watches, but Breitling is really where my mind goes when I see this Nighthawk.
Everett	But with that said, it is not a Navitimer. This is not an homage to a Navitimer. You wouldn't see these watches on the street and be like, Oh, right. They are totally different. This watch is everybody who's ever touched one is like, Whoa, that's cool. Like you might see this on Amazon and be like, and then you'll get it in your hand and you'll be like, Oh, this is fucking cool. It's got a stellar bracelet.
Andrew	Why is it so good?
Everett	Nobody knows. I think for years and years and years, this is a $275 watch. It's a quartz watch, but it doesn't matter.
Andrew	It's an eco drive watch. It's not exactly quartz.
Everett	For years and years at under about, well shit, there was not a affordable bracelet on the market as good as this thing.
Andrew	Nope. Not, not by a long shot.
Everett	Six or seven years ago, this was the king of affordable bracelets. Uh, it, and so now technology I think has, has caught up and micro brands are making killer shit, but it's the case is phenomenal. The dial is great. It's completely illegible under most circumstances, but also totally easy to tell time on. It has a ton of things you don't need.
Andrew	Well, primarily a slide rule.
Everett	Yeah. Well, in like that, It's kind of, the GMT function I think is still my favorite thing about this watch.
Andrew	Because it, it, whoever thought of it is a crazy person. A crazy person. It doesn't make any sense. Except that it makes perfect sense. It's not a, what is a 24 hour GMT function that exists from six to 12.
Everett	It's got an eight o'clock crown. How many times have we said that phrase on this show? Eight o'clock crown.
Andrew	Well, however many times we've talked about it. Right.
Everett	I think this actually may be the first time we've ever uttered that. Eight o'clock crown. What? This is a beautiful watch. It's totally iconic. It's underrated and underappreciated.
Andrew	And the eight o'clock crown, I super appreciate as a right wrist watch wearer. Yeah. The eight o'clock crown is exactly where you want your function dial to be. That's how you manipulate your slide rule. And as an aviator, I think I'd be a little pissed off reaching across my watch to try to like contort myself to try to manipulate my slide rule and read it while also trying to fly an airplane. But as a right wrist wearer, that's perfect.
Everett	You're now wishing your Santos had a eight o'clock crown. Yeah, I can tell.
Andrew	No, I'm okay with it the way it is. Uh, every time. So I've, I had this, I, I had this watch for a while. I never owned it, but I kept it for way too long when somebody said it to me.
Everett	Our, our homie MGMA is Mike Mazur. Thank you.
Andrew	And I don't know why I never bought this. I, my, I know I swiped right on it because it's too big. I just wouldn't wear it. I have other things that I would wear more. I'd wear it. I regret not owning this watch though.
Everett	If you've got this watch and you want to sell it to me for a cupcake or two hostess cupcakes, one real cupcake, two hostess cupcakes.
Andrew	I'll send you a beer also.
Everett	And a beer. I will arrange that.
Andrew	Yeah. But this is an iconic watch. It spawned an entire line within Citizen. The line continues on and the OG. Whoa. That was a big burp. Um, the OG is, is gone. This is like very much when like a mafia family, the Don dies and like a weak captain rises up and then they just get their shit pushed in.
Everett	So we've now talked about Casio, Seiko, Citizen. We've eschewed Orient. I'm sorry, Orient. Fuck off.
Andrew	Orient doesn't land in it.
Everett	Orient, go home.
Andrew	Do better.
Everett	Andrew, Hook me up with something different because we've covered the Japanese bases, but I think we're going to go some other places here.
Andrew	We are going to go some other places. I want to talk about the Hamilton Pulsar. The PSR. Tell me, baby. So here's why I think this watch is iconic. Not just that it's an affordable iconic. I think they come in at about 800 bucks.
Everett	Yeah, I think the retail 775 and you can get them for under six.
Andrew	This is a bond watch. This is the first led watch. This thing was designed to look like the year 2021.
Everett	It's a, it's a modernist watch that was created after the modernist movement. Yeah. Battlestar Galactica.
Andrew	It doesn't look like the year 2021. It looks like the year 1968. The. I think Octopussy was 1968.
Everett	What is the what is the Disneyland section, the like future? That's what it looks like to me.
Andrew	Yeah. It is. Also amazing. For those of you unaware, it's kind of a rectangular case, rounded edges, a big ass black lit LED screen with numbers in the middle. There is nothing special about this watch. But for the fact that everything is special about it, it was revolutionary when it was released, it was like it was a fucking Bond watch. Right? What Bond watch is affordable?
Everett	Is this, is this what Bond movie? This is Live or Let Die, right? Octopussy. Okay.
Andrew	I'm going to keep saying it.
Everett	And, and I think that this watch is, well, first, certainly it meets all the criteria. It's available today. It's, it's affordable. It's under a thousand dollars. It is. Absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, iconic today. I think you talk about this 10 years ago. It doesn't make the list today. Absolutely. It makes the list.
Andrew	It represents also the beginnings of brand reissues because this wasn't, this isn't an unbroken line from its first release. Correct. This is, I think this was re-released what three years ago?
Everett	Yeah. So somewhere in that range. That's right. Um, But it was not always an affordable watch, right? When this watch was introduced, probably not something that you'd call an affordable watch.
Andrew	It was top of the line coming from Hamilton. It was the thing. And now it's affordable because the technology has gotten smaller, gotten cheaper, gotten easier. There's some nostalgia tied to it. There's a little bit of hipsterism tied to it, but I don't think that negates from the fact that this is a revolutionary, affordable, and now 60-year-old watch.
Everett	That's right. That's right. A 50-year-old watch. 50-year-old watch. It's crazy. It's a 50-year-old watch. And it's gorgeous. You can get these in gold, which I think if I was going to get that, I would get the gold version.
Andrew	I wouldn't, but I totally see why you would.
Everett	I feel like that is a passive aggressive insult.
Andrew	No, I get the appeal. It's just, I can't do gold. I wouldn't wear it if it was gold. Yeah. I'd wear a gold calculator. I'd wear a few other gold watches, but I, I would wear them so infrequently that I wouldn't really be ready to spend more than like a hundred bucks on it.
Everett	And just quickly an aside here, right? Hamilton, introduced this watch as the Pulsar, creating a brand, the Pulsar brand, which in, I believe, 1979, as Hamilton was shedding dead weight, falling apart, was sold to Seiko. So the Pulsar brand that you know today is a direct descendant of this watch.
Andrew	It's actually a stepchild to Seiko.
Everett	Under the Seiko umbrella. And the Hamilton PSR is the direct descendant to this watch under the Hamilton umbrella.
Andrew	It's the half-brother.
Everett	That's right. Pulsar still exists, now owned by Seiko. Hamilton Pulsar, Hamilton PSR still exists, still owned by Hamilton.
Andrew	Yes. Half-brother I think is appropriate.
Everett	It's the half-brother. It's the step-brother. Did we just go and be friends? I'm going to, I'm going to take us in a little bit different direction here. Do me. And I'm going to come up, I'm going to talk about, so we've got just a little bit more time. Just a little bit. Yeah.
Andrew	We got to, we start burning.
Everett	And we're going to talk about some watches quickly here because some of these are a little bit questionable. So are we going to call these honorable mentions, Andrew?
Andrew	I think we're going to call them hot takes. Hot takes. We're declaring the iconicism today. Maybe, maybe a little bit, um, a little bit early.
Everett	So kind of early on in our conversation, I brought up a watch and you were like, gosh, I just don't know. Does this make sense? Do I feel it? Um, but I'm going to stick with it. I'm going to talk about a watch that I think is perhaps today. One of the most qualified entrance. to this conversation.
Andrew	This is like first ballot Hall of Fame shit.
Everett	And it's a watch from a brand that we don't talk about a ton. And it's a watch from a brand that's not even really in my consciousness in the watch world. But I'm going to give credit where credit's due. I'm going to talk about the Boulder Venture. Okay. Now, I'm going to get a caveat out of the way here, because one of our requirements is originality of design.
Andrew	And I think that was kind of my, my reticence is like, I just don't know that it's there.
Everett	Boulder Venture is a very quirky looking watch. It's got some features that are derivative. So the Boulder Venture has a very unique lug design. And that lug design, I would say, apes a very, very famous watch. made by Zenith, the Zenith El Primero. I think there's a 1970s iteration of the Primero that is still sold today. The Boulder really is looking at. So it's possible that you at home may disqualify my pick, and that's OK, but I'm going to put it in there anyway. The Boulder Venture has now been released in, I think, Last I counted, and I'm pretty sure there was 1.2 million different iterations, including a chronograph, a beautiful chronograph, every single dial color you can imagine, a GMT. These are titanium watches by and large. They're gorgeous. They're stunning. They're well-sized. They're well-built.
Andrew	They feel like nothing on the wrist. I love it. Boulder Venture, man. That's my pick here. I think as a first ballot, it's a It's a no for me, dog. Maybe on a second ballot. Because I hear and I totally agree with all the things that you're saying, but I just don't know it's quite there. I think it kind of, it's not exactly a PRX, right? But it kind of lives in that same space of like, not one for one exactly, because a PRX is a one for one almost, but not quite. It's like a one for one, like for 0.98.
Everett	Well, let's talk about the PRX because you brought it up And I said, gosh, I don't think it fits because the PRX is a wonderful watch. It's a re-release of a design from 50 years ago. It's immensely popular. It's a great size. I said, I don't want to include it because at the time the PRX was originally released, or the predecessor of the PRX, it was just a couple of years after Rolex had released its immensely popular Oysterquartz, which was an iteration of the 5100, which is probably the watch that gave rise to the Patek Nautilus, et cetera, right? The Oysterquartz is one of the most important watches in history, and the PRX is a bold one-to-one copy.
Andrew	1 to 0.98.
Everett	Yeah, that's right.
Andrew	Yeah. Yeah, that's right. But its place in modern watch world is different than its original release, which is why it came to mind, right? Because I'm fully aware of the history of it and it's... And we're 50 years removed from the Oysterquartz, right? Contemporary. Original, right? But in the current era, it's a re-release of something that isn't really out there. But for You know, its predecessors. We need to move on. I'd like to briefly discuss two Casios. The F91.
Everett	Count it.
Andrew	Okay. There is a watch worn by somebody on the FBI's most wanted list and an American president is iconic. Period. It's $10.
Everett	Count it.
Andrew	F91. Casio.
Everett	Or the F84 if you're that guy.
Andrew	Casio World Time, right? A little bit of a of a rip from the Seiko that James Bond wore, but also widely available. And go to go down to Walmart tonight, you can buy one guarantee or get one on the Amazon and you can get them in six colors for 20 bucks a piece. Q Timex.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	Right. Still kind of in that PRX world. You know, and you look at the M79 where Timex has done a couple of cool things with it. It's unique to Timex. It's a Q, which is cool. It's a re-release of that. We got some big hype. I still think it's a first ballot no, though I think I want to mention it.
Everett	And last but not least, can we talk about one other, one other watch that we had trouble with, but that I want to talk about anyway, and I know you want to talk about. We agree is what I'm trying to say.
Andrew	I don't know, there's like five things on the list that I haven't crossed off.
Everett	Our friend, John Ferrer. Yes. Out of New York, brew watches. The problem we had with brew watches, and it's a problem that remains right now as we're talking about it, is I can't identify a single watch from the brew selection that meets this criteria.
Andrew	But there is a... That doesn't meet one category of the criteria. It's staying power. It's longevity for me.
Everett	I identified the retromatic as the one that I think perhaps gets this list. But I think that there's an argument to be made for the brew retrograph. I think that you sort of... Well, so there's the Retromagic and then the Retrograph. I think that there is an argument to be made that Brew in and of itself has developed a unique design language. And so they're getting, so John, you're in. You've made one of the most iconic affordable watches in the world. We just don't know which one it is. You made the list.
Andrew	Time will tell. I think we just put the brand in because everything that John does is, it feels familiar. Nothing is shocking. Yeah. But he took it and just put it to a new level in the way of applying coffee against it. And that's the thing, right? That's the difference. That's the, the game changer piece that he's doing.
Everett	And his watches look like nothing else in the fucking world. Nothing. Thank you, John.
Andrew	Yep. Can I, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna quick run through them. Uh, the moon's watch is a watch that we included. Uh, the below the lunar pilot is a watch that we included and the Christopher Ward C 60 300 Pro, the Trident 300 Pro.
Everett	You know what, Andrew? I don't have to be home. I don't have to be home. Your kids are in bed. My kids are in bed. I'm sorry. I got excited. Let's spend a bit of time. The Moon Swatch. Okay. Yes.
Andrew	I think yes. Everything in me says no, but it doesn't not meet any of the categories And I think it's a yes. It's a kind of a reluctant yes, but yeah.
Everett	It's a yeah. We're done being mad about the Moon Swatch.
Andrew	Well, no, I want to be able to buy one. Not at gray market prices. I'm mad about that.
Everett	All right. We're almost done being mad about the Moon Swatch. It's a yes.
Andrew	I'm going to buy Uranus.
Everett	It's yours. The Bulova Lunar Pilot. It's a yes.
Andrew	It wasn't. until two months ago.
Everett	I think it was even before.
Andrew	I think when they released the appropriate size, it became a yes for me.
Everett	I actually think that the big one is the one that's iconic.
Andrew	Okay. That's an interesting disagreement, but we do agree that it's a yes.
Everett	It's a yes. Now let's talk a little bit about the C60.
Andrew	I think within that category, we have to talk about why the C60 Why Christopher Ward is special, it's because of the light catcher case, right? I think we could have picked any number of Christopher Ward watches to be truly iconic within their category.
Everett	Aquitaine, Sealander, but it's the C60. It's the C60. The C60 Trident. The one that was the 300 meter that was just released is on our list because it's the one, it's the cream that's risen to the top. But your point being, that light catcher case is something special. I think no matter where you exist in watches, you're going to be able to look back and say, Christopher was onto something. And that is the most for me, the most interesting watch capital D design in the world right now.
Andrew	Cause by and large, the rest of the watch is just spec. Right? Right. It just meets the specs. Everyone is doing that. The unique case design that they are applying to their watches puts them on this list. Very much in the same way that Brew's unique design as a whole puts them on this list, Christopher Ward is doing the same. And it's something that's uncommon where we are, right? Because at the very beginning of the show, we said it's 2023. If you can do it, it's been done. Hundred. Apparently not.
Everett	And finally, last but not least, Foster Love and Atmos.
Andrew	Yeah, because it was made against a scoring rubric.
Everett	Andrew, we've done it. We've discussed the most iconic Watch Do you mind if I just take a minute and and and review where we've been?
Andrew	We've we've been a lot of places today.
Everett	So. Starting at the top. Casio G-Shock, if you want to know the answer to this question, what are what is the most iconic affordable watch that exists today? Go get yourself a 5600 to 6900 to Casio. You've got the most iconic affordable watch in existence in 2023 for between 50 and 120 dollars. The Seiko SKX, any derivative design of the 7002 now widely available in Seiko 5 Sports, the Dress KX or the Diver versions, and now the GMT version.
Andrew	Which is dope. That deserves a lot more attention than we can give it today.
Everett	You've got the turtle. You've got the Seiko turtle. You've also got a handful of other options from Seiko, including, but not limited to, The Sumo, the SNK, the Tuna. The fucking Arnie. The Arnie.
Andrew	The Alpinist.
Everett	And the Alpinist. I keep forgetting about the Alpinist.
Andrew	Because it was lower on the list.
Everett	I'm sorry.
Andrew	I hand wrote the list.
Everett	We've got Citizen Nighthawk. We've got the Bull of a Lunar Pilot. We've got the F91. We've got the Q Timex. We've got the Moon Swatch. We've got the Boulder Venture. Fantastic watch. Casio World Time, Casio F91, and of course our friend John Ferrer at Brew, and our friend Mike France and York at Christopher Ward with their wonderful, wonderful watches. If you want an iconic watch, something that will be as cool 40 or 50 years from now, buy one of these. If you want the thing that you want to buy today, buy that. If not, if you want something that you're going to be able to give to your kids and say, this is an icon, buy one of these.
Andrew	We kept it all under a thousand dollars and a sneeze.
Everett	Andrew, other things, what you got?
Andrew	We've talked about this before.
Everett	Good, good. These are my favorite other things.
Andrew	This is an early days talked about this before. Everyone knows the thing that I went through before returning to this thing. You ever get like bored of the games that are on your phone constantly, like just like kind of angry, bored, like constantly like, I don't really want to do anything. And I fucking hate all these games.
Everett	All these games are dumb.
Andrew	Yep. I hate them. I returned to a game.
Everett	I'm curious. I'm genuinely curious.
Andrew	It's from a company called Ninja Kiwi.
Everett	The game is Bloons TD six, a game that was released like four or five years ago at this point.
Andrew	Yeah. I think this was one of my other things. It was one of your other things like three or four years ago. Okay. Such a good game. We were playing it contemporary like as contemporaries we were playing online together.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	I was, I found myself kind of angry at games that were on my phone and Went to my like previously downloaded games and I saw this and I was like, I'll give it a try. I remember liking it. It was good. And then I got bored, right? Because like it's they don't release enough updates.
Everett	Can we stop? Do you mind if I interrupt you? Please do. OK, look, the premise of this game is simple. You're on a road.
Andrew	On this roads, dozens and dozens of roads on this road.
Everett	Balloons are going to pass you your objective. is to stop these balloons from passing. Your tool to stop these balloons from passing are monkeys, and your monkeys will throw darts.
Andrew	Or magic spells or have other different skill sets.
Everett	You generally speaking, do not actively throw darts, but you put monkeys on the road to throw darts for you and your monkeys have different skills. Okay, this is the premise of balloons. And it sounds so dumb.
Andrew	This is early days tower defense online games. This is the shit that you played on like board at work.com addicting games.com. This is the, the level of interaction game that you have. That's right. And it is amazing. I got it back on my phone, found a couple new levels had been released. I don't know how long it's been since I played. Um, It had all of my previous progress stored, which kind of bummed me out because I would have liked you just like started fresh square one because that would have yielded more entertainment. I started playing and I was like, Oh yeah, oh yeah, this is awesome. I forgot how good tower defense games were and I forgot how good popping balloons with monkeys was. So my other thing is a refresh. There are games in your previously deleted list that are super fun. There's a reason you downloaded them and played them. I have a lot that I downloaded, played for a minute and was like, I don't like this. This is not one of those games. If you're in the position that I was about a week and a half ago, try Bloons TD6 and you're gonna, number one, this is a freemium game. You will feel at no point compelled to spend money on it. And that's important, right? Cause you get a lot of freemium games and you're like, what's a fucking dollar. Yeah. I want more attacks. I want to play more. I'm obviously going to pay a dollar for five more attacks. You don't need that here. You do not need that.
Everett	You don't even want it. You're like, yeah, I'm good. It doesn't even occur to you.
Andrew	I'm good. Yeah. It's just hard enough that you're like, you're, you're into it. Cause like, this is too easy to be hard. I can do this. It's intuitive, but it's, Also deep enough, like every monkey has different special powers. Some of them interact together differently. You can spend, you could spend days on YouTube just watching strategies. Yeah. Or you could figure it out yourself.
Everett	You know what else takes more time? I'm going to say something about this game. Cause I think it's actually one of the most beautiful iPhone games ever made. I love it. It's incredible. It's incredibly deep. It's one of those games where you're like, you think you understand it, And then you discover a new level of complexity. It is phenomenally designed.
Andrew	Or a new interaction.
Everett	The difficulty curve is very linear. There's a lot of games that exist where you get these peaks and valleys in terms of difficulty curve. I think this is one of the best games I've ever played. in terms of the linearity of the difficulty curve.
Andrew	Except at the very end where it goes from linear to just like spikes.
Everett	Well, that's true. That's true. But you can overcome that in you get you feel like you're there. That's right. You feel like you're there. We're like, OK, my thing just spiked. And then you really quickly get to the next level and you understand things in a different way. It is one of the most addictive games because Your ability to understand and move to the next phase is very linear. It's very achievable, but it's challenging. You're constantly challenged and you're constantly able to overcome those challenges.
Andrew	That's been my experience. And those challenges, the way you overcome them is by totally readdressing the way you play the game. That's right. And a lot of games it's like, okay, no, this is my method. This is how I do it. and it generally works. This game, there are stages that totally prevent you from even attempting your method.
Everett	And it's not painful. It's exciting. It's like, oh, okay. And furthermore, the last thing I'll say about it, because we're talking about a game about balloons, monkeys popping balloons.
Andrew	You can put top hats on the balloons, man. Or Mr. T-beards. Like, no, this is a game worth talking about.
Everett	The last thing I'll say about it is that it is pleasurable as you progress through. I will say on an older phone, I haven't played it on my new phone, on an older phone, at some point, so much is happening on the screen.
Andrew	My battery gets warm.
Everett	My battery gets warm, and also your phone will bog down. I think perhaps with my 14 Pro that wouldn't happen, but it is a game that might slow your shit down as you get through it.
Andrew	I have not experienced any, uh, hardware or software issues, but for a battery warming, I don't have an old iPhone. I have like a 11 or so. I don't know.
Everett	What model do I have in my mind? The greatest mobile game ever made it.
Andrew	I I'd forgotten about it. And I was just scrolling through and saw it. I have a, it's just name. I have an 11. Is that old? No, it's a couple of years old. So I'm an 11. My battery gets a little warm. Uh, it doesn't bog down until I like play in the sandbox, which is create a level. You've got like 70 bazillion things going on the screen. Yeah, exactly. It, it, it bogs down when it should.
Everett	Andrew, I've got another thing. Do me. You're going to find a theme here with my other things, I think perhaps for the foreseeable future, but Yeah. Precisely. I bought a camera bag.
Andrew	Okay.
Everett	Okay. So hear me out.
Andrew	You didn't, wasn't your whole thing that you wanted to throw your Fuji in your current bag?
Everett	Listen, listen, don't, don't bring up reasonable shit. Okay. I, boy, when I, when I became a lawyer, I went and bought a bag, a briefcase. I bought a coach bag. It was a vintage coach bag. It's beautiful. It's lovely.
Andrew	Has some street gouges.
Everett	It has street gouges. I, Bought it used. I bought it off a Craigslist. I showed up at a dude's house. I knocked on his front door. That's not sketchy. He brought the bag to the front door. I gave him a couple hundred dollar bills. I can't remember exactly how much I paid, but I took the bag. I've carried that bag to work every day since then. It was basically new when I bought it. It was like one of those things someone had bought and then was like, I don't fucking use this thing. I need to sell it. He probably got it as a gift. It's a gorgeous bag today. However, I use this thing every single day. now for well over a decade. I have been hit by a car while carrying this thing. It's got a huge gouge in the side. I've had it repaired multiple times. I, the bottom blew out. I had to get the bottom repaired. Uh, one of the handles broke at another occasion. I had to get the handle repaired. One of the, uh, you know, one of the swivel locks on the shoulder thing broke. So I had to order some new hardware, get that reattached. about two weeks ago, the other handle broke in the same way that the first handle broke. Which track? This is not a commentary on the quality of this bag. This is an old vintage coach. The quality is beyond reproach. But I carry this thing every day and I'm hard on my shit. So all that to say, it's really not a big enough bag for me. It is a small bag. It barely fits like a trial day, I'm in trouble, right? I've got to take a different bag or, you know, we've got these rolly cart things for trials. With a milk carton on it? It really is not quite big enough. And one of the other problems I've had with it is that I throw even the tiny little Fuji camera in there and it doesn't really work.
Andrew	No, because of the structure of leather, right?
Everett	That's right. So I'd had my eye on a company out of London called Billingham. Billingham has a series of bags called the Hadley bags. Billingham, I think, started off in the 80s as a fishing bag company. They evolved out of... That looks like fishing bags. They evolved out of a company called Brady, I believe, which was a classic outdoor fishing bag company. I think one of their engineers or machinists left, started Hadley or Billingham, which is basically a competitor. Anyway, that might, it's long enough ago.
Andrew	We don't have to worry about that.
Everett	They don't have non-compete clauses in their contracts. That's right. It's long enough ago. We don't have to worry about that. But Billingham has now for, and then in the eighties they discovered there was a bunch of like New York journalists using their fishing bags for cameras. And they were like, Oh, Let's do that. So they've now for nigh on 35, 40 years been making camera specific bags, and they're, they're widely respected in photography as super hard wearing, really high quality shit. Everything's handmade, top of the line leathers.
Andrew	They're wet. Waterproof.
Everett	If you can withstand water, you're good. Waterproof. They've got like a tri-ply material, canvas material that's got a rubber liner. So they're, they're totally waterproof. Anyway, I've had my eye on these bags for a while, but the design is kind of whatever. But they released a couple of years ago a bag called the Hadley One, which is a laptop inclusive briefcase, briefcase sized bag that's also purpose designed for carrying a camera or two or all of your shit. And, you know, they're not cheap. I think 400 bucks is what I paid for my Hadley One.
Andrew	At Walmart, you can get it for $3.30.
Everett	Oh, I bought a Hadley one and I instantly took it out of the bag and all my concerns about this thing or took it out of the box. All my concerns about this thing were instantly wiped away. I've been looking at this thing and it's hard to get an idea of what a product is going to look like and feel like, especially a briefcase. Like what size is this? How big is it? Is it awkward? Is it chunky?
Andrew	Is it going to like expand? Is it going to compress? That's right. How's it going to like fold around the not square things I put in my briefcase?
Everett	Exactly, exactly those questions. I pulled this thing out of the box and I instantly knew I was like, this is cool. This is going to do exactly what I want. So now for the past week I've been carrying this thing. I've put all my, all my normal briefcase stuff in it, which is on an average day, probably four to 10 files. a laptop and four to 10 files. That's probably like an inch and a half to two inches of Manila folders. Uh, a laptop, a 14 inch Mac book pro it says 13 on the website. I'm confident you could get a 15 inch Mac book in there. Um, a camera of my Fuji, my XC three with the 23 millimeter lens, which is a pretty dainty lens, but it's not like an X it's unusually sized.
Andrew	Yeah. It's just it's a protrusion.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. I throw that thing in there. I could easily throw a lens in there as well without causing any turn sideways. Yeah, no additional interruption to the bag. I've got as many pens as I could ever want in there. And it just it it is not. I've not even come close.
Andrew	Does it have an interior zipper pocket? Or is it just one single interior pocket and two exterior snap closes?
Everett	Two exterior snap closes, a laptop sleeve and a interior bucket, but it's got inserts for your camera. So you can, you can use. At least contain your shit. Yeah, that's right. So you can customize your like, sensitive space.
Andrew	Why wouldn't they add like a six inch zipper, like three inch deep pocket on the inside?
Everett	It's a really good question. That's my only criticism about this bag. That's where your pens go. That's my only criticism.
Andrew	Or your fucking light meter. That's a, that's a, that's an atrocity.
Everett	It's, it's a legit criticism. And I think that this bag would be almost perfect if they added that.
Andrew	Put a watermelon carrier on one end of it in your mirror.
Everett	So my other thing is that Hadley Billingham one, I think a near perfect bag if you're looking to EDC a camera, which is exactly what I was looking for. Um, and, and to also work right. I did not find a single review of this thing online, which discussed my use case. Is that what they call that? Right?
Andrew	Like I'm the guy who wants to call it my to and from bag.
Everett	I'm the guy who wants to have files. a computer and a camera. I could, this bag is made for doing that and I could not find a single review online where someone had discussed this.
Andrew	Apparently you're the weird one.
Everett	Here's what I'll say. It does it perfectly. It does it perfectly. So the insert snaps front and back. What I found is I can snap the insert just to the front and so the back isn't attached. but that's where I put my files and it works perfectly. It's not loose. It doesn't feel flimsy. It's like, yeah, this is totally how this bag was meant to be.
Andrew	Does it feel flimsy if it's not full? Cause I have an over the shoulder bag that feels flimsy if it's not full. So I carry things that I do not need to fill out the bag.
Everett	Not at all. Okay. Not even a little bit. It's, it's incredible. It is. I felt like I was taking a risk buying this thing because of the amount of money. And I got it and I was like, this is it.
Andrew	It's a little bit of a flyer. That's, that's, you know, not an insignificant flyer for between three and $400.
Everett	Yeah. 400 bucks is what these things go. I don't know, but this is what Walmart vendor that's selling these for less, but I mean, it's really a $400 bag. So you're going to have to, but it's perfect for me. It's totally perfect. And the materials and the construction, I am confident that in 15 years, the same amount of time I've been carrying the coach, I'm confident this Hadley will still be running strong. I will not have to have this thing repaired. It is the probably highest quality thing I've ever bought in my life.
Andrew	You own a Speedmaster.
Everett	The Speedmaster will break before this bag.
Andrew	It'll have to get serviced. OK. You own a lot of vintage Lexuses too.
Everett	Yeah, those a lot less this thing. Andrew, I think we've done it.
Andrew	We did. As usual, as is our way.
Everett	Hey, you guys, thanks for joining us for this iconic episode of 40 and 20. The Watch Clicker podcast. Why don't you do me a favor? Check us out on our website. Watch clicker dot com. Look, every single episode of this podcast is there. You don't you don't need help finding those, obviously, but also weekly watch reviews, articles, other fun stuff. You can also check us out on the socials. really at Instagram at 40 and 20 underscore watch clicker or at watch clicker. If you want to support what we're doing and we hope you do, you can do that at patreon.com slash 40 and 20. Look, you don't have to give a lot or anything cause it's a free podcast, but if you didn't want to support us, it would really help us afford the things that we have to pay for like hosting and hardware and software recurring charges a lot of times. uh, all of your support is appreciated and welcome. We love you. We do. And also don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye bye.