Episode 198 - Interview with Michael Pearson of Zodiac
Published on Wed, 10 Aug 2022 22:43:37 -0700
Synopsis
This podcast episode features an interview with Mike Pearson, the Global Brand Director for Zodiac Watch Company. Mike shares his fascinating journey into the watch industry, from working on cruise ships to joining brands like Ernst Benz and Bremont. He provides insights into Zodiac's rich history, design philosophy, and future plans, balancing heritage with innovation. The discussion covers topics like the whimsical yet serious aspects of Zodiac's watches, the importance of storytelling, and the brand's commitment to custodianship. Mike also teases some upcoming Zodiac releases and materials.
Links
Transcript
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| Andrew | Hello fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 1420 The Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you? |
| Everett | You know, I think I got it, man. Why did you speed me up? No, I wasn't speeding you up. I was just giving myself kudos for my excellent pan on the audio. |
| Andrew | You gave me the wrap it up notion. |
| Everett | Yeah, stop talking, Andrew. No, it was like I finally got our, I'm learning our faders. And so I felt like it was really, I was like, yeah, I did it. That's what it was. I'm sorry. I felt rushed. |
| Andrew | I was like, am I doing it wrong? I mean, I don't ever do it right. I don't think. |
| Everett | Hey, you did it right, Andrew. You did it right. I'm not going to talk about this drink because you're going to talk about it later. I understand, but I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm doing well, Andrew. A full law firm merger and physical move of two offices this week. Woo. So starting on Friday, kind of running through the weekend and then like we're just today. So Tuesday is when we're recording. Today was the day that I kind of walked around and I was like, this is starting to feel like a place you can do business. |
| Andrew | Are you operational? |
| Everett | I mean, cause you never really took a break. No, there was no break. I mean, you can't take a break in the, you know, there's, there's no such thing. So there's like hide, hide, hide from the clients for as long as possible. Um, yeah, we're there. I, you know, it's been exhausting new, new partners. So I've got a new partner. Um, you know, we've, we've spent, I've spent, Oh my God, I've spent so much money in the last five days. Nice. Like more money than I've ever spent in my life. I've spent in the last 30 days. Five days. And in addition to that, I bought a watch. So yeah, I'm tired, but I feel really good. It's exciting. It's, uh, it's fun. You know, professional things like this are really satisfying. Um, that's a big move. |
| Andrew | It's a big move. I imagine it's kind of like a coming of age for you too. Cause you became a partner in like you, you were brought into this space that already existed and then you moved that space to somewhere else where you're kind of the OG in the space. |
| Everett | Yeah, you know, you're right. So when both so I've got another partner that's a contemporary of mine, and we were both sort of brought in by the firm as like, the the potential legacies, right. And I think we've we've done what was expected of us and more. And now we've just added a complete new law firm. I mean, it's exciting, right? It's this really sort of benign thing, you know, in terms of what happens in the world. But it's like, fuck, I'm like things happen in my life. This professional achievements. Those are big things. It's pretty rad. I'm stoked. I'm happy. I'm exhausted, but I'm, I'm fucking ready, dude. |
| Andrew | What Andrew, how are you? I'm good. Perfectly normal. I got the, I took my boat into the shop last week and they were, they told me it was going to be about a month before they could even look at it. And they called me today. And whenever you take any kind of machine into a mechanic, And this is good. |
| Everett | Okay. Okay. We won't talk about it yet. |
| Andrew | Whenever you take any kind of machine to a mechanic, you like fear the worst. You're like, what have I done to destroy it? How am I going to spend all of my money to fix my common, my, my little error? And they called and they're like, Hey, it's actually not so bad. It's more money than I want to spend, but it's a couple, it's old, but you know, it's, you know, you knew that, but you know, we've got these, it's these couple of things and you know, You did a good job troubleshooting such that we started where we picked up where you left off and that made it shorter. So it cost you less. Uh, so they got to order some parts and, but I'll have my boat back in like a week and a half. And then we can take it out on the water. |
| Everett | Can we actually take it out? I feel like we talk about this and then we don't actually do it. |
| Andrew | Well, cause it wasn't running. That was the, that was the, the, the hang up there, but now it's running. |
| Everett | But you're healthy. You look good. Your skin tone is, it's, it's quite, uh, uh, you know, |
| Andrew | pale because I live in the darkness. |
| Everett | But your standard pallor, I feel like is less objectionable today than it often is. It is. |
| Andrew | And my demeanor is a little better. I've been sleeping pretty good. I'm all right. I'm feeling good. |
| Everett | And I'm excited. You're excited. Are you excited about what we're going to do right now? |
| Andrew | I'm excited about what we're about to do. |
| Everett | Yeah. |
| Andrew | Can we do it? |
| Everett | Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm excited to. Do you want to do this? I think you should. OK, so today, today, very important guest, very important guest. I think less necessarily because of any of his achievements or importance to the watch world and mostly because of his A, incredible accent and B, his fantastic haircut. |
| Andrew | Yes. I was going to mention that. |
| Everett | Fantastic haircut. We've got, we've got on the show tonight, the, the watch watch person extraordinaire. Yes. Watch person extraordinaire, former, former Bremont extraordinaire and current global brand director for the Zodiac Watch Company. We've got Mike Pearson. If you're a listener of podcasts, you may have heard Mike on other shows. Mike is one of these guys who's here for the enthusiasts. Us. He's here for the people who want to talk about watches, which I think is just delightful. This is a professional who takes time out of his day. Mike Pearson, welcome to 40 in 20 Watch Clicker podcast. How the heck are you? |
| Mike Pearson | I'm fantastic now, especially after that welcome. So thank you very much. And the haircut is awful. It is floppy and thinning, but it is still there. |
| Andrew | Are you really going to talk to me about thinning hair? Gosh. Rub the salt in. |
| Everett | You've got to be sensitive. You've got to be sensitive, Andrew. |
| Mike Pearson | Yes, but you have a good shaped head. I have these massive ears, so it's not going to look... I have a headset on, so, you know, they're... They do well. They do well. You talk about skin tone and how you look. My cursed life is being pink and English and living in America and any time the sun comes out it just burns and it's horrible. So everything you said in that introduction to each other I loved and I resonate with massively. |
| Everett | Mike, I think that will go down as one of our, one of our best opening comments ever that the curse of my life is being pink in English. That's my life. |
| Andrew | That's I also, I'm familiar with your pain. I worked during hours of darkness. So not, not, I mean probably less English in that you were born there, but yeah, yeah, certainly. |
| Everett | Yeah. Well, well shoot. Welcome to the show, man. So Mike, I met you in San Francisco. at the wind up watch event. And we talked, I don't know, for probably about an hour, just, I was probably drinking. I think you were not. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you weren't able to drink at that time. Cause you were working. |
| Mike Pearson | Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Professionals in the watch industry. They hide it very, very well. |
| Everett | And, and we talked at that time about, you know, getting you on the show and here we are. We it's been, you know, as these things go, we we've tried to make it happen and it takes some time, but Here you are. |
| Mike Pearson | Oh, you've got some moves and I've had some big moves. So yeah, it happened at the right time. |
| Everett | As much as I am willing to make my move sound like a big deal. You actually moved from a different continent to here. So you you've moved from England now in North Texas. |
| Mike Pearson | North Dallas. Yeah, North Dallas. So we were just saying before the next thing to us is Oklahoma. We're all the way up there. But Zodiac's head office is in Richardson, which is just outside of Dallas. And it's an easy commute. It's a little bit of the old country still around us. You can still see cows and what Texas was up here, but it's a big monopoly board. Every time you look around there's a school or another subdivision. We're happy to be here. I've just got to slap on the SPF 7,004 and I might survive. Yeah. |
| Andrew | The SPF t-shirt was always my MO. 100%. Yeah. We're super excited. So let's, let's hear it. Let you, you've made this huge cross country move for or frost cross world move. What are you doing? And what's it mean? |
| Mike Pearson | I mean, |
| Andrew | Global brand manager or director, pardon me, global brand director. |
| Mike Pearson | I have no idea what that is. It's just the title. We just sell watches. I will end up just touching a little bit of everything that Zodiac needs to touch to make sure people know the story and that the sales team know how to sell and where people want to buy us. And as we grow, it's just basically touching all of that. But I've been in and around America since the mid 2000s. and I moved here in 2007 and I spent a decade in Michigan and I would always say that I was born in England but raised in Detroit. My most formative years of being an adult were in Michigan and it was also where I started within the watch industry. We moved to Texas after a year in New York City due to incredible snow and my wife being pregnant and I was in the sun selling watches or promoting watches in the Caribbean. And I said to her, I would never do that to her again. So we looked at all the weather conditions, and we looked at time zones to talk to the UK. And the middle of the country just seemed safe and well and opportunistic. And there's tons to do here. So we landed within Texas, professionally as well as personally. And we like it. But just after COVID, we decided to go back to England. And it was an amazing year. For whatever circumstance, mostly personal, my wife and I decided to come back to America and to Texas for Zodiac. So long story short, we're here because of Zodiac, but also for life. We've got two young kids, two sausage dogs, slightly pathetic, but we love them. And yeah, so we know the area. So this will be where we settle down and we create roots, shall we say. Texas is it. Well, you know, you never say never, right? Because, I mean, I've travelled, I've travelled I think now to about 44 US states, including yours. I love, I love Oregon. And it's a big, big world out there. And we're here for a long time. And Michigan is a big part of, especially my wife, but for me as well. So I think maybe in the end, if America is forever, I would be Tim Allen. But knocking him out of the way, talking about pure Michigan, uh, because I think it's a very misunderstood, beautiful part of the country. |
| Everett | Well, it's interesting. I know a few people that love Michigan and they're all from Michigan. |
| Andrew | Uh, and they all show you where on the mitten they're from. Yeah, that's right. |
| Everett | So it's, I think it's an interesting place to land, you know, Michigan, obviously a very, very important part of, if not just American history, the entire industrial world owes a certain amount of the way they do business to Michigan. But I don't think it often gets included in quality of life type of discussions for some reasons that are perhaps apparent and obvious, but also some reasons that are sort of difficult and tough to talk about. What was your experience in Michigan? |
| Mike Pearson | Well, I'm a big believer that stereotypes stick. So I'm sitting here as an Englishman drinking a beer, thinking about soccer. So, you know, that's true. But with Michigan and within all the different states that are out there, you'd say Oregon, oh, it rains, or you've got L.A. or, you know, the traffic or, you know, the stereotypes of what you'd find. But with Michigan, I think you've got Detroit and you can think about the incredible things that it did in terms of industry and music and everything that it brought to the world. But then you can also think of the bad times within the 60s and the divide within that state. When I got there in 2005 to first visit it, it blew my mind. You could see the money just pouring out of the car industry and into the suburbs. And Detroit was a bit of a hole compared to the industry or to the way it looks today. But when I went past the bigger part of what you'd class as the ghetto, the seven, eight, nine mile, you go into into the beautiful part of the world, which is great living, huge houses. Everyone's got a car. They have basements, which now in Texas I miss. But it was also lake life, good living. Sport was massive. Kids live free. You know, it felt very, very beautiful for me. And one thing I think for the watch industry as well as it was also an escape Because when I've come back to Michigan from being in LA or New York or wherever across the world, no one cared. Not in my immediate circle. Of course, there's fantastic luxury watch shops and watch collectors. But for my friend group, no one cared about watches or money or what we did. So in a way, it was perfect to clear the mind, hit a lake, go for a walk or a hike or go see the tigers. And it really was the yin and the yang to my life. It really settled me down. And I kind of understood the best of America from there because there's nowhere that works harder than the Midwest. Um, but also you, you, you live well from that work as well. So I learned a lot about myself, the industry, and it was a base. It was always a base. I, I never meant it to be home for 10 years. I thought it would just be for a little bit, but end up being massive. So yeah, I'm a big, big believer in Michigan. |
| Everett | I understand that you can get tiger's tickets just about any weekday afternoon for 10 bucks in the bleachers. |
| Mike Pearson | You know what? When I was there in 2000, when we moved properly in 2007, it was the good times. It was a year after Odoña's hit the home run to get into the World Series, which we got swept. And I fell in love with America and grew my watch business through going to see the Tigers home and especially away. So every time I'd go to see, I don't know, a retailer in Denver, I would do it when the Tigers are playing in Colorado or in New York. I mean, I saw the best of America through food, music and sport especially. Um, but I drive forever and you'd see the openness of it all. And, you know, I'm a big believer that you've got to get lost to find it. And, uh, that's what I did when I was new and early in the watch industry. But I, I did do it through baseball and finding a good burger joint or barbecue. |
| Everett | I'll tell you, you know, baseball, I think is, is maybe slightly out of favor relative to its, its heyday in America. I still think that baseball, you've got like the two most important pillars of Americana, the Mormon church and, and major league baseball. And I say that only slightly tongue in cheek, because I really think that's true. Uh, you, you know, there is a thing that happens at a baseball park that is you, you, maybe it's not rapidly apparent, but, uh, you know, you spend a little bit of time following a baseball team and it's like, this is, this is America, right? The way the farm clubs work and everything, uh, really fantastic. |
| Andrew | And the cities that baseball teams are based out of are always just, that's the city, you know, barring Barring LA and New York, the identity of cities with a baseball team are tied up in that city. |
| Everett | And in some ways, New York, maybe not LA. I think so. Well, great. Let's ask some watch questions because as much as I would love to talk about Americana and Detroit and the industrial revolution and baseball, for fuck's sake. |
| Andrew | I was wondering the six states you haven't been to. |
| Everett | Oh yeah, that's a good question. |
| Mike Pearson | The Dakotas, Vermont. I've not been to Maine, if that counts. I've not been to Wyoming. Where else have I not been? I think there's a couple more I can't think of. |
| Andrew | Alaska would be a guess. |
| Mike Pearson | I've been to Alaska. I love Alaska. It's the best of America. I've been to Hawaii. I've been very lucky in my travels. So the Dakotas |
| Everett | Wyoming, Vermont, Maine. You're fine. Yeah. You haven't missed any. You've done it all. You're fine. There's nothing to miss. You've not missed nothing. |
| Mike Pearson | I'm a big, I'm a big fan of Yellowstone. I have to go to see Wyoming in real life to see if it is either. The GYE is huge though. |
| Andrew | That's beautiful and that's scary. The GYE goes all the way into Montana. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. |
| Mike Pearson | Montana! |
| Andrew | That's the other one? Oh man, you're fine. You've seen all of America. Then you are missing out on Yellowstone. |
| Everett | Uh, well, well, great. Can you tell us a little bit? So, uh, so now global brand director for Zodiac watches, fantastic company, and we're going to get to listen, we're going to get to Zodiac, but before we get to Zodiac, can you tell us a little bit about your journey and watches? Because a lot of folks will know you from other brands. Historically, you've not been at Zodiac all that long. You're, you're perhaps, uh, more well known for your time at Bremont watches. Can you talk to us a little bit about how you got into watches? Like this is So Andrew and I, we are, we work very hard in watches. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Everett | But we, but we don't really have any sort of professional experience in watches. Neither one of us, neither one of us have any professional experience. We, you know, we just loved watches. And so we started a show and then we met another guy and he was like, want to be part of my website? And we're like, yeah. And that's it. Right. You've got this really rich, diverse history in watches. I'm a little bit curious about how that starts. Does it start in the same way? guys like us, uh, you know, start talking on a, on an iPhone about watches every week or, or how did you get here? |
| Mike Pearson | Unfortunately, I think I'm a bit too old to have all the, you know, the, the podcast here and the iPhone here and the social media. And in many ways that probably was the reason why I fell into it. Um, I was very young. I was going to university to be a teacher and I had a very nasty car crash where I, came out the window of the car. And it was one of those moments when you're sitting on the floor thinking, I'm okay. I think I'm going to be all right from this, but I don't want to, I don't want to be boring in life. And you've got to realize how, how short and how lucky you can be, but you've got to, you've got to take a chance. So when I got out of hospital, I looked at some of the friendship groups that I've gotten. One of my friends, she was brilliant. She said, go on a cruise ship and just do six months and live because you shouldn't be here, but you are going to have a good time. You're 20 years old, go and have some fun. I went to the medical. I lied through the medical. I was going to be a teacher for primary school kids, kindergarten age group. And that's what I went to the job for. And they said, no, no, you need to do the adults. You need to entertain. You have this big personality, do it. So I was 20 years old, 21 years old. So I said, OK. So I flew to South Carolina, got on a cruise ship, had no idea what was going on. And that first night, they gave me a microphone. And I'm talking to 1,000 people about the things they'll do that week. Um, fast forward over a few years, which I love. |
| Andrew | Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait |
| Mike Pearson | I went to the interview in London to interview to do the there'll be in charge of the kids area by looking and it will be part of my schooling. I'd come back with credits from it. That was the thought. And then after the first six months, I would carry on my schooling to be a teacher. At the interview, they said, do not do the children's side of it. You have to do the entertainment side for the adults on a cruise ship. |
| Everett | So that was that was just like my last job interview, too. It went really similarly. |
| Mike Pearson | This is when I was 20 years old, so I'm a child. I had no idea what was going on. My ear was hanging off. I bit through my tongue. My clavicle had come through whatever. From your car accident. From my car accident. And I had recurring nightmares that I had one arm because when I landed on the ground, all I saw was an elbow and blood and I had pins and needles. So when my arm started to move, I'm screaming with joy and laughter on the middle of this freeway. So that was like, what do I do to get this out of my head? Let's go to the ocean. And it was one of those kind of weird moments where it just all made sense. So I did the first ship out of Charleston. I'd never been to America. I went to Chili's. I saw a guy eat the biggest meal I've ever seen in my life. Add sugar to Coca-Cola. But I got on the ship. I did the first show. And away we go. |
| Everett | What were you doing? What were you doing on the cruise ship? You were like an emcee or of sorts? |
| Mike Pearson | So at that time, they had an activity and entertainment staff. So they would do things like pool games, trivia, bingo. I didn't care what I do. I had just survived going through the window of a car. I'm just going to go and have a laugh. |
| Everett | They were like, you've got a dynamic personality. We want you to be the guy that rallies the troops. |
| Mike Pearson | A hundred percent. And it was on a quite a fancy old cruise liner. But the energy kind of worked. And I refined how I spoke. I'm from a lovely area of England, but there's a bit of an accent, which I don't have. And when speaking to Americans, you have to speak in a certain way. Otherwise, it could be whatever language. It could be in Swahili. They wouldn't know what I'm saying. But I did six months. And after that first six months, which was the best of my life, I saw most of the world. I said, I'm going to carry on and do this. And I got promoted and promoted to be in charge of the entertainment department. So you think you've got a couple of thousand people on each cruise ship, and you've got a few hundred people that you look after. But I met a person, I met a girl, and to stay with her, I changed career directions, which could have been whatever. I mean, who knows what it could have turned into. It was fun. But I ended up falling in love with the idea of the shopping guide, which has their own TV show, they do a live promotional video talk in front of 1000 people. And they would tell people where to shop for sure on what to buy. And there are some terrible things that they are promoting, such as t shirts and hair braiding. But there was an audience for it. But they also talk about the best diamonds, Tanzania, emeralds of the world, the greatest brands of jewelry, and watches. And so I applied for that. I got the job there. It was a company that was owned by LVMH, Louis Vuitton. And so it was a really wonderful pedigree of luxury and promotion and selling and marketing. Were you doing infomercials? Is that what I'm... Imagine an infomercial, but you are every day changing it. So think of QVC. Yeah. But instead of trying to push it there, you are pushing people to go ashore and where to shop ashore. |
| Andrew | Oh, so you're doing those presentations on a ship. Yeah. |
| Mike Pearson | And so what you do from the ship, you would do it on a TV channel, you'd be in their room in terms of the TV channel, and also the live presentation, which would excite people to shop. I did it for less than a year. And the girl that I went, I met, I moved to America for. And when she and I weren't, shall we say, probably compatible on land after being on sea, what was quite apparent was... That'll happen. Yeah. Yeah. What was quite apparent was that this love for watches and where I fell into, which was Michigan, was a place that I should give a go. I should really give it a good go because it was 2008 at that point and the world was coming to an end financially. And so I had a choice of staying in America with this little bit of momentum that I've got within the watch industry. And I'll explain that in a second. We'll go back to England and start again with my tail between my legs. I was asked to join a very, very small brand called Ernst Benz. So Lenny is one of the greatest watch aficionados I've ever listened to in my life. And I knew him and his brand very, very early on. And when I moved to America, Ernst Benz was very, very small. This relationship kind of broke down. |
| Everett | It's still today very small, right? |
| Mike Pearson | Of course. Bigger, bigger. Well, at one point, a couple of years after this particular part of the journey, we made it quite massive, actually, and relatively speaking. But it was because, and this is just the God's honest truth of it, we should not have done what we did in 2008. Personally, it was a bit tough for me. Lenny had all this passion and ambition. He was new to owning this brand. And we went for it. And so we went to the Caribbean, we went to Barneys, John Varvados, these independent stores, and I learned how to sell and promote through the worst time in the world when nobody wanted you. And we did it and people wanted it. And so it was a really wonderful footing for me to learn the good, the bad, the independent, but also mixing with the big boys in some of these big stores. And it was wonderful. And I'll always thank Lenny and his family for that. |
| Andrew | How much of that capability came from selling that LVMH portfolio of watches, which are all luxury and in an environment where people are already spending a bucket of money. |
| Mike Pearson | So the LVMH side of it was they owned a part of this company called Onboard Media. So the good habits that LVMH have, they didn't really have to push on Onboard Media, the LVMH group. It was the best brands within the stores that were promoted on that particular program. |
| Andrew | So you got LVMH money to sell whatever you wanted. |
| Mike Pearson | Kind of, but it was LVMH backing to go into the Caribbean to find the best stores who could promote good service and have, you know, these customers that will go into Jamaica or the Bahamas, they have no idea where to shop. So we give them a guarantee and we show them that if you buy here, you buy with confidence and we've got you. it. a company owner or of multiple stores, I can talk to a different brand representative and understand what they might need. I could do a sales pitch to one person in front of me, or if there's a presentation or a chance to talk to a thousand or more live, do it. Let's go for it. Um, but that, that, so yeah, it stood me in good stead for Ernst Berns for EB. And then about three and a half years in, I was in Basel and I saw the English brothers who own Bremont. They were in the Swiss Hotel, which was the heart and soul of Basel at the time, where everyone stood, drank before and after. If you've ever been, it was a wonderful buzz, especially in those early part of 2010 onwards, 7 to 10. |
| Everett | Before watches became what they are today. |
| Mike Pearson | 100%. Yeah. But you wouldn't have known it when you're in the Swiss Hotel. And one of my favorite points just before I met Nick and Giles, actually that same night, I'm sitting there with Lenny and I've got this moon phase watch on it. It's just a value. It's a lovely, lovely movement. It's a 47 millimeter moon phase watch. And I get a tap on the shoulder and it's Gerard Genta. And, uh, and he goes, I like, I like your watch. And I says, well, thank you very much. Well, I like all that you've ever done. |
| Everett | You knew who it was immediately. |
| Mike Pearson | Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And he goes, I, I, I make Zimiki. And he's referencing the Mickey Mouse watch. I'm like, I know what you made. But he's, he asked, he asked to hold my, you know, $5,000 Moonphase watch, which was only a few hundred had ever been made. And he's just like, oh, and he's seen the movement. And I'm like, this is magic. Because if someone like that who's built history could then grab something so new and unknown, why can't I do that? Why can't I do that with any part of my life and give, and give myself a chance to learn as well? |
| Andrew | That's such a beautiful story. Yeah. For just like, just to think of this, this icon in the world, still so... THE icon, right? He's the Michael Jordan of watches. But still so in love with the things, right? To see something he didn't make, he has no interest in, but to be interested in it. That's a super beautiful thought. Yeah. I like that a lot. |
| Mike Pearson | I have some tingles down the back of my neck just thinking about that and seeing how you react. It's good. You learn a lot from those big executives or those big, powerful figures or voices because they are still just people. Like I've seen over time people like Christophe Claret, who is a genius with the movements. And I've seen him jive 1950s, 60s stock up the best dancing I've ever seen. And he's a small, unassuming man. But you're like, that guy can dance. So we're all just people. You just got to find the right people to suit you. But back to that point, I was in the Swiss Hotel, Nick and Giles were there. I went over to them and just said, I'm an Englishman living in England. |
| Everett | Nick and Giles English, founders of Bremont watches. |
| Mike Pearson | Thank you. Yeah, they are brilliant. They're brothers. They had a wonderful They've done wonderful things, but at that point they were still very raw. |
| Everett | And it's a pretty small company in 2010 too, right? We know Bremont in a certain way today, but even just five, six years ago, Bremont's still kind of like, what is this company? So in 2010, it's pretty early days. |
| Mike Pearson | Very much so. And they weren't in the Basel fair. They were renting a conference room in the Swiss hotel. So they came down into the lobby. Slumming it. some in it, basically. But I went up to them and just read their family story in, I think, IW Magazine or Watch Time, and I just said, I'm English, I love what you're doing. Congratulations. I was a big believer that it's not a Swiss industry, I think it's the world. And I was very much passionate, saying, well, can you help me, introduce me to some people in the UK for Ernst Benz, and maybe I can introduce you to some people in the US for Bremont. And it ended up being a little moment where there was a spark. We just took the piss out of each other like English people do. And I was like, I want to see you some more. I'd love to talk to you some more. And then they got in contact with me on early, early day Facebook when it wasn't so weird to do so. But we chatted through the early days of social media. And Nick says, we would love to chat with you. Can you come to England and let's have a beer? I was already going home to see my family. |
| Everett | Did he say have a beer or have a pint? I imagine him saying, let's have a pint. |
| Mike Pearson | I think it was just a drink, because he was a gin and tonic drinker back then. I was, yeah. It's too bad. It's a missed opportunity. When he comes up north, I would say a pint, because I'm from a little bit rough around here. He's from Henley-on-Thames, which is very, very lovely. Oh, fair enough. But I met him, he was late, which I always, I'll never forget, because he was late for the rest of my career with him as well. But I fell in love with, and it sounds silly to say love with a man in this particular way, but I did, in the energy, the passion, the story, the ambition to tell a story which no one really would care for. And again, those juices started flowing like I did when I first started with Ernst Benz through bad circumstances, but now I had a little bit of momentum, maybe some game. And I understood what I might be able to do. |
| Andrew | You had some social capital and yeah. |
| Mike Pearson | Yeah, a little bit, I think. But in all honesty, at that point as well, I didn't really know too much about the American market, because for instance, through OA, I'd kind of grown it in the Caribbean. And the Caribbean was a huge, huge part of what I'd known from cruise ships. It led on to so much. But I did start to learn a few of the bigger players in the US, such as London Jewelers or Topper Jewelers out in California. You learn some of these names. But anyway, that beer went so well that he says, would you work for us? And I says, I don't know. what to do right now because I've you know I'm in America these guys and he says well give us six months and let's see what it turns into because there was already thoughts in my head that maybe I should come back to England anyway and there was a couple of brown circling and I said right I'll give you so yeah let's do six months and it was eight years later that I decided to resign uh through having a baby and just traveling too much but that one minute of meeting them in the Swiss hotel to that one beer that he was late to gave me the biggest part of my life professionally. I got to go to every part of America and every part of the world and be an English guy in the US, being able to, I hope, speak to an American with an accent, yes, but I think we speak differently, especially in sales. I think there's a different matter of factness about how we communicate over in the US. I've always described myself a little bit as a vampire. I would never be that guy that would walk into a store or over your threshold. unless I was invited. And I always say, when I'm in, then I'm not going anywhere, because I want you to learn. And I just wanted everyone to know that this isn't me trying to sell you, but I would educate you. And if you said, great, not for us, but at least you knew it, and you gave me time, great. But more often than not, the way that that story was set and the way that I hopefully saw this industry, they go, all right, he believes in it this much, there's passion there, there's people listening to it, let's give it a go. And it became quite massive. We opened about 60 points of sale in the US and the Caribbean. And it became just a slightly smaller market than the UK. But we were pushing it for many, many years. And it just kind of, yeah, it made me. Vermont made me. And like I said, then you meet somebody. I met my now wife. And you realize that for all those years, you are a selfish man. And I say selfish in the nicest way because there's no room for anything else or anyone else. Because when you're saying about being in the watch industry, especially when you're growing a brand or you're part of an independent scene, you are everything. You are the voice. You are marketing. You are social. You are the salesperson. But you are the brand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to. You have to bring it into yourself. And people would say, are you part of the family? I'm like, no, but I love them. Like, I believe in them. I'm here. And so that Yeah, yeah, exactly. I will tell their story because, you know, they say they speak it differently in the UK than they might do to the US and I would bring them over for big events and it would be perfect. But you have to set the scene well and put good, good practices into place and good habits. And yeah, it was magic. And it was I was a very, very emotional man when I decided to leave, but I knew that I couldn't be a good boyfriend, fiance, husband, father, with all the time I'd given a watch band and So I left, and I'd moved to Texas to actually work within retail. I was pulled back into the industry with another brand, which wasn't great. Because when you're with one brand for so long, you work in a certain way. You work in your rhythm. And especially when you do so much, when other bigger brands come along, and this is just me personally, I couldn't just be towing the corporate line. I couldn't be a, yes, sir, please buy 20 of these. I'll see you next week. For me, I wanted to sell and and, you know, evoke emotion and get people involved. And some of these other brands that wanted me, or, and I tried, it just wasn't a fit. You had to, I had to find something that meant something to me. Anyway, I was pulled back to Bremont and I was in a different role. They asked me if I'd do PR marketing and events, and it was great. It was, it was setting up for something really magical. And as we'd spent a lot of money for all these events, COVID happened. And the rug got pulled from underneath us, and some things had to change, and I had to go. So I left. And at that point, I was like, F watches. I'm done. My whole life has been making other people's stories matter. And I think the enthusiasm had gone, and we had these little kids, and I just wanted to do that. So I did an about face. I did tech through COVID, and it was the best thing I could have ever done, because it managed to let me sit back, and help and kind of understand what we wanted to be a little bit more within myself than just a watch guy. And so obviously the part after that is where this whole Zodiac story kind of started is after COVID and tech and deciding what the next move should be. I was asked by Wolf or Watchwinders to move to the UK and look after Europe for them, which is amazing. I'd never thought about apparel or luxury side of that, but it was really interesting. Simon, who owns it, is incredible. Michael, who runs it, is a different level of business person, which you wouldn't understand unless you meet him and how he is with numbers. It's fantastic. |
| Everett | But it is like the only watch storage solution that anybody knows the brand, right? It is the only watch storage solution that has a recognizable name. |
| Mike Pearson | Wolf watch winders are it. And they've got proper patents. So no one can do what they do because they count the turns. Nobody can do the the cuffs because they've got that all patented down and even the cushion close to the different ways that they do their leathers. It's very, very impressive operation. And I mean, I've got a ton of the boxes and the winders and I've been a fan of them for years. But when you go into the factory and you see how big it can be, or how big it is, it's quite mind blowing, actually. But because we just moved to the UK, it was a massive thing after COVID. I don't know if you feel the same way. Some of us dealt with it differently. I was OK. I got COVID pretty bad. But coming out of it, I was ready to go. But moving to the UK for my wife and for my daughter, it was a massive, massive step, maybe a little too hard for us all to be me going straight out onto the road. And we had to wall, wall, wall, put the brakes on a tiny bit of what the plan was. And that was bad because I couldn't do what I've always done. I couldn't be the person that I did before with Bramon. And it was, it was hard, but you have to, you know, there's the PTSD kind of element after COVID and after doing that and then an international move and then straight into being on the road three weeks of the month, it was hard. |
| Andrew | And so it's an identity crisis. I mean, coming out of COVID where you're like trying to figure out who you are again, against having a kid suddenly and you're in a familiar space, but you don't get to be that same person. That's a big transition. |
| Everett | And a huge career change to boot. |
| Mike Pearson | It was, but I think it was also, you know, they were very excited to talk and I was like, Oh, it's luxury, but it's not watches. I don't have to be that watch person again. And I think for me, the pivot was different as well. And what it did though, is it touched some of the same areas and the people that I loved and then knew and ended up being quite lovely because some people are asking questions for consultancy help. And so when it was getting to a point where I felt like I couldn't give Wolf what they deserved, because of how the family were and how they were not slowing down or not enjoying being in the UK. And that's not a slight in the country, just it was after COVID, we all had to find our own rhythm, and it was difficult. But I started to consult with about four or five different brands. And there were watch brands, there were micro brands, and there was no pressure. And it was talking about the basics of where to go, how to talk, what's social, who do you know, how can you help us? Should we do a retail sale or should we just do it online? And I was like, this is great, this is really interesting. And some of the brands that I was talking to were really, really, for me, exciting, historic, or new. There was a lot out there. And I bought a Zodiac watch from Top of Jewelers in California. They did this Pepsi GMT, which is beautiful, called the Crystal. It's a really good watch. And it's the first watch I've ever bought for retail. But I wanted to support Top of Jewelers. |
| Everett | So this is like 2020, the first watch you've ever bought at retail. |
| Mike Pearson | Well, if you think about the first watch you have as a fossil, or you have your Nike watch, or a Flixlack, When I was my first proper watch was a Tag Heuer Carrera and I got it at a massive discount because I was working in the business. But then with Bremont, you know, I'd work for watches sometimes instead of bonuses. And, you know, you really look at it. I was a watch guy. I wanted to get watches, but you use the people that you knew in the nicest way. Everyone looks after each other. But when it came to that watch and doing things right for Rob, he's a great retailer. I said, I love this watch. You've been a brilliant friend to me. Can I buy it? And he offered a discount. And I was like, no, I just want to buy it. and I did it and I fell in love with that because I heard all the stuff about Zodiac and we'll get into a little bit about what the world might think of Zodiac. I personally only know two or three points at that point and so I got that watch, I loved it, I put it on social media and Zodiac reached out to me and they asked if we could chat and I was like oh crap okay let's have a chat and that was the start of everything that we're talking about going forward and how I became brand director from buying that one watch at full retail. Someone saw on social media, again like Nick and Giles, it was that social connection in this new world. But TJ McKnight is the guy who was tasked by Fossil to bring the brand back and he's building this team and he sees someone like me as an ingredient that could help them. And it's been, we can go into it more and more, but that particular point, it was fantastic. |
| Everett | Well, that's, that's, that's perfect. And you know what? So here we are, here we are 45 minutes into a show, uh, as discussed, I, uh, well, as discussed offline, cause it won't make the show, uh, you've had, you've had, um, about, you know, 35 minutes now to tell your story. And Andrew and I have been, have been sort of jaws down. listening to you. This is just- We haven't given you the finish the thought motion at all. There's been no finish the thought motion. This is, uh, I think for me, this is a really, uh, lovely story and I think it's been transfixing and I, I think we could go all night probably. We won't, I promise you guys at home. We're, we're going to move this along. Um, because we've just, we've just now in the last minute of the show kind of touched the surface of what we're probably really here more than anything to talk about, which is Zodiac. So, so Zodiac is a brand. I'm sure you've got your talking points and you've got your, your, you know, you don't have a list or anything or any check boxes, but you know, you've got a, so you're a guy, you're a storyteller, you're, you're an engager. You're someone who, who engages people professionally for the last, you know, 25, 30 years is my guess. Um, this is what you do. You're very good at it. And so I want to, I want to sort of, if I can disrupt your flow a little bit. Yeah, please do. But I'll do that by way of telling you what I think Zodiac is. And then I'd like you to, you know, I think what I'd like you to do is come back and tell me, tell me what I've missed or what I've got. Right. So Zodiac really, really amazing late 19th century watch brand started off making fantastic, very slim pocket watches. In the 50s, you've got Rolex, you've got Doxa, you've got a couple of companies that are making dive watches. Zodiac, meanwhile, right there. So 1953, I think, arguably speaking, if not actually speaking, produces the first commercially available dive watch in 1953 with the Seawolf. This is a company that has quietly, more quietly than many brands, revolutionized a lot of what we know about watches. So in terms of shock-proof technologies, just in terms of the way they've approached watches, one of the very first eight-day movements, we've talked about the Panerai eight-day movements on the show before. I don't think we've ever talked about Zodiac in this context, but this is a brand that's just sort of based in |
| Andrew | Uh, you know, the one of floating hands doing like innovative, creative things. |
| Everett | This is a company that's just there every step of the way to, you know, in the early part of the 21st century being purchased by a fossil and now being, I think in many respects, one of the flagship brands of the fossil, like the legit side of the fossil watch section. Um, What is it about Zodiac, a brand that doesn't get the same type of play as, uh, even perhaps in some respects, a Doxa, I think some days, uh, maybe not, maybe not Rolex, but, but then you hear you're like, Oh, Zodiac. Well, that's right. Zodiac. What is it? So, so obviously a bit of a comeback tour for Zodiac, I think right now, and there's, there's no question that, that Zodiac is bigger today than they were five years ago. 10 years ago, certainly. What is it about Zodiac historically that tickles people and makes them today feel like this is one of the it brands? Because that's how I feel. And I don't mean to speak for anybody else. I do think Zodiac is one of the it brands. What are the things in this story that we're missing? |
| Mike Pearson | I think you've done a really good job there. The one thing that I think you missed, firstly, is we are 140 years old this year, and we were started by a family called the Calame family. Very, very old Swiss watch, Swiss clocks-centric family. And when the brand started in 1882, it was named after them. It was registered as Zodiac early in the 1900s because it was easy to say, had something to do with the moon and the stars and how we all have our Zodiac signs. It was very, very romantic. What you did is what a lot of people do. They were very early. They had slim pocket watches. They did railroad watches. And then in the 50s, they have the Seawolf. Well, for me, it's that 70 years that some people miss. The innovation of Moonphase, Power Reserve, being those watches that everybody had at the same time when it was very white labeled as well. But we were in the lock with the same region as every single other major watch brand at the time, making watches for the entire world with the biggest part of its distribution being in America. But we were at one point, and I still haven't got a concrete number, but we were making incredible amounts of watches. but it was really when and you were bang on right to say in 1953 to be the first commercially available dive watch in the world to come out alongside Glycine and Blancpain and before Rolex at the Basel fair but it was the innovation that got it going being deeper being able to go deeper a new type of case back, a very, very distinct bezel. And there was also color and style and the sharp-toothed hands. And it ended up pushing the brand in a direction that I don't know if the Calame family ever understood, because it was rewarded with respect by not only commercial divers, but also militaries from around the world, including the US Navy. And so for 20 years, that became a massive, massive impetus for Zodiac. I'm watch history. And I do think that the trajectory of what happened then was quite in tune with how Zodiac might be known today. You talked about the astrographic and the mystery dials, or being one of the first electronic watches that are out there and really being bold when it came to the quartz cross. |
| Everett | The first chronometer grade LCD watch, right? Just innovators. 100%. |
| Mike Pearson | And also you look at the astro guy, I've got one in my hand, it's terrible for a podcast, but just to see the difference in how that dial floats. And then everybody will know exactly what you're talking about. A hundred percent. But we didn't go to the moon, but we made the astrographic or the orbiter, or in the sixties, we came out with manta ray cases that kind of, instead of doing slim thin watches for the gentleman, we did it with a crazy mantra style case that was for men and for women. And so the, the innovations in how watches were built by Zodiac for me, were in keeping with what we're now doing. Because in the 80s, it was sold and it was the first time that the Calame family didn't have the brand. And over the next 10 years, it was mishandled, but never went out of business. Then it was owned by the people who were distributing and very, very tight with the Tag Heuer family, which is why some of the 90s watches have a Tag Heuer link kind of look. There was some very, very similar aesthetics in the 90s. And in 2001, Fossil Group did buy the brand for not very much money. And they came out with some very fossil looking zodiacs, which and I say that lovingly with fashion and color and a bit big and a bit plasticky. But to fossils credit, they then said no, and they pulled it back. And it didn't go out of business again, it didn't go it didn't go away. But they picked and chose some of the models that suited fossils palette. And they could also tell a story. And then they got some of the people involved and it came to the point where TJ, who asked me to join Zodiac, asked him to steer it and what he did brilliantly is he went to the watch buying public. And for some of the people that we know, such as Worn and Wound, Houdinki, Ariel Adams from a blog to watch, people that have a voice and are connected. And it made a difference because what they said to TJ and to Zodiac is, invest in the movement, invest in traditional design, and then you will see this brand come out. And so they came out with the Super Seawolf. which is not the Seawolf anymore, but they lost the name Seawolf when it was mismanaging and mishandling its trademarks, and it was gobbled up by somebody else, starting with B. But the Super Seawolf came out in a true reflection in terms of how it was designed before, but bolder colors. And then it introduced an STP movement, which is a movement house that Fossil acquired. So it can be powered by us, look like us, hark back to where it's from. And then also, because it's owned by who they're owned by, they can control the price. Here's where it gets a bit crazy, where we can all get a little bit muddled about what is Zodiac now. they did a ton of these limited editions of color and style and interpretations of the past. And it was great. Buzz everywhere. Every three months, there's a bit of buzz. Oh, I love that watch. It's orange. It's blue. It's the golf colorway. But it would go away, and oh, we'll wait for the next one. And so that happened for a few years. And it got to the point where last year, we made 6,000 watches. And we sold every single one of them, which is great. We're a micro brand in many ways. But you think about the heyday of where Zodiac was, and how many it made, and how important it was to the watch industry. we needed to scale and be better and bigger, and we have to invest more in STP. So what I have been tasked to do is to give that direction to the brand alongside the team. So we've got this core of watches, which is a Super Seawolf Heavy through the 53 skin, which is traditional to what you saw, the compression, the pro diver, and then you bring in Olympus. You are going to see some other models and materials going forward. But now we can scale up the core. We can then keep the fun going with the limited editions, but we have a base, we have anchors. We have someone like yourselves to go, I want to see it in my local retailer, or I want to, I trust the guys on Warner Man Hadinki. I know it's going to be a good watch because they say it, but we're not going to run out of watches. And so when I talk to these consumers at Wind Up, I think it's important that we listen to them still. |
| Andrew | So I had two important questions to ask you. And I'm really encouraged that you kind of touched on them almost perfectly. Because it's, it shows that not only are they universal questions and kind of wonders about Zodiac, but that you, the guy, are aware of it. A hundred percent. So my first question was how is Zodiac balancing the heritage of Zodiac, which is, you know, and I think there's a conflict in heritage, right? It's like, it's being true to the designs of the past, but for a brand like Zodiac, that the heritage has been innovation. There's a struggle there, right? How do we continue to innovate, but remain true to this design language, right? So how are you balancing that against continuing innovation? Break. Next question was, Oh, two, two parts. No, no, no. I mean, the two parter is objection, objection compounds. It's a compound question. I have two questions. They're unrelated, but I have to ask them both because you answered them both. We'll start with the first one and then I will, I will, I will touch on the second one. Jesus Christ. I'm uncompounding it. I'm decompounding my question. That balance of heritage and legacy against innovation? I mean, how is that? What's what's working there in your head? |
| Everett | Okay, so hold your question. I'll provide some context. So I've now been to two windup events. And there are a number of microgrants. Obviously, we have companies like notice who were huge fans of, we've got, you know, Christopher Ward shows up at these things. We've got a number of heritage brands, especially in the last handful of windups that have shown up. I think Laco does a really good job at showing up and bringing a catalog. Seiko does a great job, but really what we're seeing in both those cases, Laco and in Seiko, you're seeing the catalog of modern, the current run catalog. I think that Zodiac does something different than any other brand I've seen that this style of event, which is that Zodiac travels with, I think, what I'd call a museum, right? Zodiac has a traveling museum. So when Zodiac shows up at Windup, it's Zodiac's watches. These are the watches we sell. And also, these are the... This is what we came for. Look at this cool fucking shit that should be in a museum. And I will never forget me picking up a watch... You let him do that? From the 50s and putting it on my wrist and saying, is this okay? And you saying to me, Mike, Well, you've already done it. |
| Andrew | Nobody else has thought it was okay, but here you are. |
| Everett | With that context, right? Zodiac is a brand that is perhaps maybe more sort of eager to tell its history than a lot of the other brands. You said it, so I'll say it. Zodiac feels like a micro-brand today. There's nobody else in this space that has the ability to do that and certainly... And the ask to actually keep it going. And the ask to keep it going. So in that context, and with respects to Andrew's question, what's there? |
| Mike Pearson | So to the point first about the show and the traveling museum, when I first started with Zodiac, I asked to stay in San Francisco. I wanted to go to the wind up and meet and meet everybody. So I had just looked through all of the office, I'd looked through everything that had been bought from Chrono24 or eBay or all the different consumer collector sites. And we have a brilliant, brilliant guy within our office who tries to find watches that are rare. And he wants them for a museum for the future. I picked up eight of them. And I said, I'm taking them to San Francisco, we need to tie the story together. And he goes, Yeah, basically, basically, yeah. And the guy said, Can I? Okay, he's gone. Because we have this new POA. Yeah, well, I also thought it was the right thing to do. So I did it. We have this new point of sale, and I wanted it to, to have what's housing a core collection of what Zodiac is. But I also wanted someone like you guys to come up and say, yeah, Zodiac, colorful, great, limited editions, nice, see ya. And I wanted to be like, hold on, what do you know? And it's a case of, this is where the Seawolf started, but also look at these from the 20s, 30s or 40s, or let me tell you a little bit about the Calumet family. And if you pick up this Let me show you the design and how we're trying to keep these stories going. Yes, there could also be this version that's green or watermelon, but if you look at the hands, the bezel, the case, and then also see how we're respecting that aesthetic with a movement that's ours, that we're backing up, we're getting better all the time, then we can look at innovation and craftsmanship. Because we can't, even though we're owned by such a massive company, we cannot just blow the money out of the water. Because we do a watch which starts at $895 and nothing really goes over $2,000. So every single success we have in terms of a model, for me going forward, must be innovative, must push the needle, must make us better and have someone in the watch community go, actually, they're doing that right. Because it's the people who go to the vintage side of the table like you, Everett, and pick up something from the 50s or 60s and go, this was what I know Zodiac is. I want their eyes to go to the website or down the table or in a showcase and go, they're all right now, you know, they get it. But I think we have to respect where we're from. And I don't know if we didn't do that. But I also think that people have short memories. So they can look at the 80s, the 90s or the early 2000s. And that's what they know of it. Or they've got bullet points to your point as in, it's old, it did a cool dive watch, didn't have the floaty hand thing. And then there's a lot to fill in, right. And so for me, the more and more we can tell that within our website, podcast and social media, more than anything over a showcase or one on one, I think we're going to be able to tell the story organically and well, Or at least do it to the point where we've got this amount of watches and we can grow and they'll come on a journey with us. So full circle, I think we just have to look to the past and all the things that made it right and move ourselves forward and be respectful to it. |
| Andrew | So the goal, as I'm understanding it, is to celebrate the heritage and the legacy. I'm not saying you're not going to innovate. Right. Cause that's not at all what I'm trying to imply here. But the goal going forward is to grab the legacy that already exists. We're not going to see new brands. I guess there's maybe where I can go. We're not going to see new, not new brands. We're not going to see new models or new iter. We're going to see what we know and love and celebration of the legacy. |
| Mike Pearson | Okay. But also, I think when I just held up to the camera, we're doing this on Zoom, I held up the Pro Diver, the new titanium one. First time we've done titanium. Oh yeah. But this one, this is a titanium. Full titanium case bracelet, grade two titanium. |
| Everett | In watermelon, in watermelon. |
| Andrew | Because why not? And that actually is a perfect lead into my next question. |
| Mike Pearson | is in the last but well no please let me finish that thought because that if we just kept on regurgitating the past we wouldn't be true to the innovation going forward so this is a brand new model the pro diver bigger a little different in terms of aesthetic enhancement still felt like it's much bigger right it's like 44 42 42 The rest of the collection is with 39 or 40. But you will see instead of us having a cake and a party saying we are 140 years old, look at us, we have to look at ourselves as custodians to this brand. So what we're doing this year is kind of flexing in the nicest possible way, where we can do titanium. Yeah, and there's Troy, you know, we're right there. But we've got another case material, we have a new dial material later this year. So every month or two, you will see us Custodian for the brand is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard somebody say. |
| Everett | So, you know, we, we talk, dude, I love you. So, so one of our, so I think Andrew and I have, uh, over the course of the last four years become British watch, uh, fans without realizing it. You know, I think y'all got us. I think, I think I can speak for Andrew and saying our favorite brand perhaps as a show is, uh, Christopher Ward. Christopher Ward, I think is probably, that's maybe my favorite watch brand. |
| Andrew | It's right up there. |
| Everett | Yeah. And I think just in terms of the show and what we do here, we love, so Mike France, obviously someone you're familiar with. Oh yeah. I just love his spirit for the way he's doing what he's doing with that brand. Different, you know, Zodiac obviously a much different thing. But I and Zodiac, obviously not a British brand at all. But I think my point is not yet. |
| Andrew | He has to say that's right. |
| Everett | My point is, I think you're approaching it in this way that I now currently today recognize fairly or unfairly as as perhaps a British approach to this. And maybe and I hope I'm not offend offending you when I say this. I think the way you're approaching this brand, similar to perhaps Bremont similar to perhaps Christopher Ward. I think that there is this very natural balance that gets struck between whimsical and serious. And I actually, not to bring this back to Christopher Ward, but I'm going to for a second. I think Christopher Ward does this very, very powerful thing with the way they design cases and the way they present those cases in terms of dials and and I've always been enamored by that. I think Zodiac's doing something really similar, which is not to say that you're designing watches or whatever, but the way you talk about the approach, the way you've discussed Zodiac's approach to watches makes me feel like this has got that same spirit that I attribute to the British watch industry. Do you think that there's something there? I don't know how you're affecting Zodiac's design decisions, if at all, but do you think there's something there? Is there a spirit of British salesmanship and design that you think is coming through that I'm picking up on here? |
| Mike Pearson | I think maybe just because the narrative that you've probably heard with me over the last couple of months, you'll hear me tell a story maybe differently to what an American or a Swiss guy would. The lovely thing about Zodiac is that we have obviously the offices globally are in Dallas, Texas. The watches are built in Switzerland. We've invested in STP and Antima where they're put together and built. But we've got outside eyes looking at the design from around the world and have an American fashion side to the fun of how we can design these watches. |
| Everett | You've got an American audience, a Swiss manufacturer in history, a British salesman and marketer, very international company. |
| Mike Pearson | My point is that Don from Vertex, Giles from Schofield, Nick and Giles from Bremond, yes, the guys from Christopher Ward, then you start moving over to the way that Sin or Nomos or Glashutte or Lange, I truly believe that this is an international industry. It's not Swiss. For the for the truth of the matter these great old ladies most of them are in that little country called Switzerland So I think we have to interpret what they did right? So here's what? We had a little break in between all the recordings. I talked to Andrew a little bit about where I see Kind of the kinship about how I sell to maybe what zodiac has always been So I did another podcast and I got reached out to on one of the zodiac fan forums on Facebook by a guy called Soren. And he is the son of a distributor in Denmark who works for the Calumet family for 30 years. He talked about seeing his dad go out on the road, you know, every week coming back in there, you know, his work clothes and the watches he'd have and the traveling sailman's documents and seeing the different points of sale that was created to put the watches on. |
| Everett | Probably a familiar story for you. |
| Mike Pearson | It resonated in every single fiber of my being that The Zodiac was massive. Like I saw pictures of this Soren guy with his dad in the factory in Switzerland with the Calamares, you know, and all the watches and dozens and dozens of watchmakers. And Denmark was a small, is a small, small watch market. Tiny place. Denmark is a tiny place. you think about that in every single massive market or important market like Germany, Italy, Spain, there are zodiacs everywhere in every corner of the world. What we are doing now, it comes back to that word, Andrew, custodianship, that we have to guide it the right way. That is not from a Swiss angle. We have to be precise and delicate and true to what that industry is, but we have to look globally because you can find these old Middle Eastern dials or limited editions that we did in America with Harley-Davidson or Dr. Pepper, or some of the more traditional dials that would only be sold in Denmark, because that's how they bought. And so we have to be careful of this narrative of being this country or that aesthetic, because the whole world buys the same Sub or the same Speedy or the same Zodiac Super Seawolf. We just have to tell our story the right way to honor it and also where it's going. That's off the soapbox, but that's 100% how I feel. |
| Everett | Well, so your soapbox includes, I think, Not to criticize you here, Mike, but I think your soapbox includes the very serious aspects, but it ignores what I think is perhaps the most notable characteristic of Zodiac today, which is the whimsy. How does that factor in? |
| Mike Pearson | Yeah. And I apologize if you come across that way. |
| Everett | You should apologize and we accept your apology, but carry on. |
| Andrew | Only barely though. |
| Mike Pearson | The color, the fun, the bezels, the style, the hands that are just different will always be there. And in my opinion, if you shout about them, you're just shouting into the wind because you can see it. Every watch person or every person who just likes a style or aesthetic, they go, I love Zodiac style. I love their colors. They do it great. But what I think we've done to a detriment in some ways is that we've talked about that so much or shouted about that so much that we've missed the watch side of it. You guys speak fun about watches, but also if there's a hand or a dial that doesn't represent the brand truly, you should call them out. You should tell them that they're not doing it right. But I think what we've got to do is kind of get that balance right. But the colours, I mean, Well, I'll come, if you don't mind, I'll come on next year and I'll show you all the new stuff that's coming next year. And you'll be like, you don't need to say a word that's bloody loud. |
| Everett | So that's your take is the whimsy speaks for itself and what people need to realize that it's not just whimsy. |
| Mike Pearson | please. Yeah. Because we've all got either eyes, or we can feel what it's like, or you can see what it means to yourself, but like, shoes or a belt, or you know, your haircut, go back to the first point. But the idea of the obviousness of how we make or color Zodiacs, like, I was in San Francisco, and this guy came up to me, man, I need that watch, I gotta wet it. I said, What? I gotta wet your watch. And he's a guy who does this thing on YouTube called wet watches, and he just takes crazy watches, throws it in water, or puts it in the shower, puts it in the ocean. And I said, I don't know what's going on. This is very scary. Are you real? |
| Andrew | No, this is a transient man who's trying to rob you. |
| Mike Pearson | He, I got his 42 millimeter pro diver watermelon and it's just nuts. He didn't see anything else on the table but color. And that's great. That's where he went to. That's his personality. That's what he does for social. But in the same breath, someone goes, I love that 40 millimeter Olympus you do with worn and wound. May I see it? And I was like, yeah, of course. No one ever asked for that. And so there are, there's an audience there of fun, but at the end of the day, we've got to find the watch that suits you. And we will, or we as the watch buying public will decide Me and Zodiac as a brand, we just have to make sure there's a palette for you to choose from, be it sober or fun. We have to be respectful. |
| Andrew | So this is again, a good segue into my last question for you, which is the balance between core brands, core models, and limited editions. Andrew struggles with words sometimes. I don't talk good. Four beers and give me a break, dude. So core models against limited editions, because in the last several years, I personally have seen and kind of perceived Zodiac to be a limited edition primary brand where that was the point that three or four big limited editions a year and the primaries exist there. And is that the focus? These fun, like limited edition runs or, or where's that, where's the focus going in the future? Or is it, I mean, does it have to be focused? I mean, is it like, Hey, we have our core models and we've got fun all the time. It's always a party and you always can come to our house to have a quiet evening. |
| Mike Pearson | No, no, I'm not like I think I mentioned that before when we did that first watch in 2015, and we did the limited edition golf colorway, that was the impetus to do to 300 of this for her dinky to 300 of that for one and wound topper jewelers. And that meant there was no room for the core. Now what we built was core watches, but they got so overshadowed with the noise that we couldn't fulfill orders for retail stores. So when you look at the skin 53, there are four basic models of that this skin 53, there's a compression version, there's about seven or eight colors in the 40 millimeter compression, there were five pro divers, they sold so quickly, and they weren't replenished quick enough, because the limited editions were so hot that we fell down in a way of like, Oh, I can wait for the next Zodiac. Whereas what I wanted somebody to do, which is what I explained, we brought a core together, So the fun and the limiteds and the limited runs will come. What we are now going to do going forward is build more of each core model so that your local retailer, if he ever wants to open or she ever wants to open, they can sell through the collection and not have empty gaps in their showcase. My goal is maybe a bit different to some of the independents you might have seen at WindUp because I think that we need retail. I think the most important part of any watch sale in many, many ways is the trust that you get from the salesperson over that counter to the person who wants to buy it. |
| Everett | They'll see if it fits or sits. The third party who is able to, as a non-invested person, say, this is a watch that might work for you. |
| Andrew | And it's going to sell you multiple watches because you, Mike, aren't going to sell me. Well, you could sell me maybe because we have a relationship, but you're not going to sell any of our three listeners every watch that they buy from Zodiac. Exactly. |
| Everett | As promised, it's more than three, but not a lot more. |
| Mike Pearson | Well, hello to all three of you. It's lovely to see you tonight. But I think that that retail element is really important for Zodiac because if we get different storytellers or champions of the brand in a city, we don't need many retailers, but I do think we do need more. And I think that's a really important thing for a brand like us to do to grow correctly. we have room within how we build to have a margin so a retailer store can make some money. More than anything, I want them to trust that they can put Zodiac into the store because it's their money. It could be a big group or an independent mom and pop, but if they put it in the store next to all these amazing brands that are out there, then we have to not let them down. We have to fulfill that Mike, as we have negotiated in advance of this show, you are obligated by way of appearing on this show to give us some sort of sneak peek, teaser and or |
| Everett | taste of what's to come, what people should be looking forward to with Zodiac that they may have not heard about anywhere else. So exclusively available on 40 and 20, the Watch Clicker podcast. What can you tell us to look forward to in the next handful of weeks or months about Zodiac? |
| Mike Pearson | In the next handful of weeks, keep your eye on our social media. We've been teasing a little bit that there will be a new Olympus and it's the most beautiful colorway Olympus I think I've ever seen. And there is a date wheel and second hand which will change maybe your opinion of that model and it will throw light where there is shade and highlights part of our history and story that I think is really important to know. Is that a good one? |
| Andrew | Did you just tease a loom the date wheel? Nope. Okay. That's what I took from that and I got real excited about it. I thought it'd be dope. |
| Everett | Looking forward to it. |
| Mike Pearson | We've done loom like that before, but after that, every single, October's massive for us. We've got some really fun things coming out, but we've done titanium. There's another case material and there's another dial material to come. So you'll enjoy what's coming, hopefully. |
| Andrew | That was a pro tease right there. |
| Everett | Mike, here we are. I think this may be the longest episode of 40 in 20 as we... I'm sorry. No, it's wonderful. |
| Andrew | It's Everett's fault. |
| Everett | He doesn't manage time well. And it is my fault. We are going to move on. We are going to move on. Although we could probably talk all night. We basically have. Andrew, Andrew, you're here. I've heard you speaking tonight. Did you come prepared with another thing? And if so, |
| Andrew | Andrew, other things I did, and we have enjoyed it. So the other day, my while I was at work, Sam had some friends over. And as they do, they all bring beverages. And as they should, they abandon excess beverages at my house when they leave, as they should. That's expected. What they left were Lone River Ranch Rita's, which are a Flavor of the Lone River Ranch Waters. Church Seltzer Ranch Water based out of West Texas Ranch Water. And it has this interesting, weird, like like mythical story, like this man traveled into the desert and he found this and he lived on it. There's no real explanation. |
| Everett | It's like the typical micro brand watch story, right? |
| Andrew | Yeah, it's it's he reached into the earth and brought forth a spring. And and you know me, I'm pretty OK with seltzers. They do lime and agave seltzers. So it's tequila seltzers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're delicious. But the real winner are these ranch Ritas. |
| Everett | They come in at like six percent, which is not a small amount of booze, not a small amount of booze exclusively based on how they drink, because I have now had I've now had many of these seltzers but in particular the Ranch Rita, it just goes down when it hits your lips. |
| Andrew | It, it drinks like a really clean, really tart margarita. |
| Everett | I could get really drunk on these very frequently. |
| Andrew | I could get hated on these and not even consider it. Five grams of sugar, 12 grams of carbs per Rita. The seltzers are... Which for a seltzer, that's high in those numbers for a seltzer. The seltzers themselves three grams The Rita's at six. You could drink about nine of them and then try to stand up and, and, and introduce yourself to the planet earth and die. |
| Everett | They've got this like salty deal thing going on. I'm the dude. |
| Andrew | I could drink 10 of these right now. These are my new summer daily drink. Maybe me too. They are so good. And I, and, and I don't feel weird drinking. I don't feel like I'm drinking a White Claw. Sure. I don't feel like I'm drinking any of the, of the seltzer varieties. I feel like I'm drinking a lighter margarita because of the agave and, and lime flavor. |
| Everett | You sent this to me this week and you were like, you got to try it. And I was like, it does not look good. And it looks kind of tacky. And then you had them tonight. And I was like, all right, here we go. I want to drink 12 of these. |
| Andrew | I got them for this purpose. Cause I knew that you were going to judge me. Cause I was like, cause they're called ranch water, which is the worst brand name ever for this. Put it in me. These are money. You Mike can buy them. They're going to be available where you're at. Ranch water, ranch Rita's there. They're closer to cocktails than they are beer. Um, I, uh, get them. |
| Mike Pearson | If you could see the screen, lovely listeners, it is like an advertisement on my zoom screen. And it's very impressive. |
| Everett | It is an advertisement. We make zero fucking money. We are the dumbest businessmen on the face of the earth. And you're going to need it. You need to help us make more money. |
| Andrew | I cosign wholly on you taking these. |
| Mike Pearson | Well, I'm, I'm probably the most boring drink of all that sort of, I'm a, I'm a Guinness drinker. I'm drinking Stella tonight. I like whiskey, but in terms of the sweet stuff, doesn't go well with me. |
| Everett | I think you should pick up because they're not sweet. I think you should pick up one of these and just try it. It is sour. |
| Mike Pearson | Yeah. I will try it. |
| Andrew | And I will, I will, I'll comment on the social media feed and I will, if you buy a six pack of either of the ranch water or the ranch Rita, Try one, don't like it, I will reimburse you. Reimbursement guarantee. |
| Everett | Money back guarantee. We actually are still making no money. |
| Andrew | Not you, the listeners. Just Mike. |
| Mike Pearson | I will take that bet. I will do that. No worries. You'll do it in New York, hopefully. |
| Everett | Mike, we've given you very specific instructions to come prepared with an other thing, and I understand that you've brought something. Other things, what do you want to talk about here? |
| Mike Pearson | tonight. Please don't, please don't judge me in doing this. No judgment. |
| Everett | We talked about Andrew's fucking seltzer addiction. |
| Mike Pearson | You guys are in Oregon. You guys have got a massive love for soccer up there for the timber, the timbers and former, former MLS cup champions, but I was just going to throw it out there. You gave me your city, your main city, Portland. One of my greatest memories is as a football soccer fan. I'm the world. We are watch people, but find something that brings people together other than watches. And mine is Aston Villa, my soccer team. They are mostly terrible, but it's true love. And if any of your people out there want to talk about football or meet me on the road and do that over a beer or a ranch water, I would gladly do this. And my thing is to look to more than watches, but find something that you love. And mine is soccer. And it just reminded me of your brilliant, brilliant state. |
| Everett | So, so Mike, the true story here. That stadium that you went to to watch the Portland Timbers play football, perhaps, against Austin Villa. So that is now called, I think, Providence Park? |
| Andrew | Yeah, Providence. It used to be PGE. |
| Everett | Providence Park, formerly PGE, formerly Civic Stadium. Formerly Civic Stadium. My high school football stadium was Civic Stadium. So when I played football in high school and then... American football. It's important. American football and not kickball. I played high school football games at that stadium in a much different iteration. So much before they've added the skyboxes and the beautiful seats and the concession, the wonderful concessions. That was my high school football stadium where you watched Aston Villa play the MLS Cup champion, Portland Timbers. That was my high school football stadium. I was playing club soccer. I met Tom Hanks. And where you met Tom Hanks, my high school football stadium. |
| Andrew | I was playing club soccer when the Timbers became a thing there. And they had, they were inviting club soccer teams to play there just to have people remain for Timbers games. Yeah. So I got to play on the, I got to play on PGE at the time. |
| Everett | If you know nothing about soccer, in the United States or soccer in Oregon, and you're into soccer at all, if you're into premier league or whatever, if you think soccer's cool, but I don't know much about it, you should research soccer in Portland. There's been some wonderful books. Soccer is perhaps more than any other city in the United States, sort of the heart of professional, the modern professional soccer movement in the United States. And it's something I would recommend. I'm going to add to Mike's other thing. I think soccer in the United States is just a really spectacular thing. I'm here for it. I'm looking forward to it. And if you care, I think you should check out, I think you should check out Portland soccer. |
| Andrew | And if you don't care, you should check out American league soccer because it's burgeoning right now. |
| Mike Pearson | Oh, Detroit city FC going back to my house. Yeah. Yeah. DCFC. You've got some fantastic fans. Yeah. Nuts. So I'm with you there, but that's my thing. |
| Andrew | That's a good other thing. |
| Everett | Everett. So my other thing this week is a little different. It's not a thing you can go and buy perhaps or that you can like we don't we can't provide a link to this because you do have to pay for it. You do have to pay for it. And trust me, you have to pay a lot for it. We don't provide a link for this. My other thing this week is something that is it maybe seems obvious. And to some of you, this will be obvious. Some of you be like, you're an idiot. I have, as some of you know, been into art perhaps my whole life. I make art, I create art, I dabble in art. I don't have the type of stick-with-it-ness to have made art in any sort of functional sense. I kind of, I pick up a medium, I explore the medium, then I move on to the next medium, sometimes with long gaps in between. But I've created a number of pieces of art. over the year that I'm proud of, like stuff that I'm like, this is really fucking cool. And I like this. Um, a lot of the art I've created is on paper as much of art is not all art, obviously. Um, but, but at least, at least visual art, um, some on your hand, some, some on my body, literally, uh, hand, uh, in, in, in other places, I, I have a collection of art that sort of, circulates. I sort of keep it together. It's in a stack. It's in a stack. I've moved it now multiple times. That's a pile. A pile. It's in a pile. Um, I, this week, so some of my art has been moved to my office over the years. Some of the pieces I really like I have in my office. I just this week got introduced to a framer, a professional framer. And he said, you got to come to the shop, right? It's going to be less money than you think it's going to be. And it will change the way you feel about your art. It will change the way you look at your art. And so I took a couple of pieces of art to, uh, I'm going to give a shout out Capper Framers in Eugene, Oregon, and maybe we'll link them. Although I don't think they, they don't have like an online presence. You're not going to be able to like go to the website and check them out. Right. It's a local, it's a local place, which I think framing is. |
| Andrew | It's a local activity. |
| Everett | It's a local activity. And so, and so don't go to Capper. go to your local frame shop. So I walked in and this probably about, I'd say 50 year old man with glasses and like an Oxford cloth button down shirt greeted me with an apron. He had an apron on and he was like, just the second I walked in, he just connected to me like eyes, like what are we doing today? And he was patient and slow and he knew exactly what I wanted before I knew what I wanted. I didn't know what I wanted. I was like, I have this art and I want to frame it. I spent about, I don't know, half hour with this guy. And he, the very first thing he looked at what I did, he complimented my art, which is wonderful because nobody ever, like I send pictures of my art to people and they're like, cool. Uh, he was like, this is so neat. I love these colors. And he's like, as he's talking, pulling out, you know, they've got these drawers of like samples, Matt samples and frame samples. He's pulling stuff out. And he's just before I even start talking, he's pulling stuff out to kind of show me he's got an idea. He's got a plan. He walks me through. So I took two of my pieces of art to this place. I spent way too much money, way, probably way more money than I thought I was going to spend as I walked in there that day. Um, you know, not a lot of money, but about $300 for two pieces of art. |
| Andrew | Yeah. That's not insignificant. |
| Everett | And I'm now, and I've received these pieces of art and I am Over the moon. I'm over the moon. I got these things back and it's changed them from things that were in the pile, proverbial pile at that point, uh, things that were in the pile to like these things that I feel like these are heirlooms. I've taken these pieces of paper that I drew on with pencils and pens and markers, uh, and, and, and liked my results and turn these things into, I think these are heirlooms. Like I, it occurred to me today as I was picking these things up, I was like, my kids might want to put these on there, like might want to put these on their walls and not be embarrassed or sheepish about it. Cause these are just cool. I, you know, by way of preserving these things in a tasteful way, I've turned these, you know, very amateur, very, uh, you know, silly kind of whimsical things that I've created into a thing that might live beyond me even. |
| Mike Pearson | And so what do they say? They say mechanical watches, jewelry, and fine arts are the only things that last forever. So it's very, very nice for this podcast. |
| Everett | Well, I don't think my art is fine, but it may last for a period of time. |
| Andrew | It's in a fine frame though. The frame is beyond reproach. For this link, I have selected, um, the U.S. government's forfeiture website auction for art. Thank you. So I appreciate you. So that you may may bid on fine art. |
| Everett | I guess my other thing for the week is if you are an artist or if you are someone who creates art, even if it's shitty, even if it's terrible, even if it's just a shitty picture that you took with your cell phone, that you're like, I love this. I would say maybe consider getting it cared for. Framed. Go figure out a way to turn this thing that is like whatever into a thing that's a tangible item that you love and that the people in your life can love and that even perhaps after you die, someone else can appreciate. |
| Andrew | Be a custodian for the memory. |
| Everett | Be a custodian for the memory. And so we're going to wrap this around first circle. Mike, one of, Mike Pearson, one of our custodians for the memory of the Zodiac of old and the person who is here to tell us about the Zodiac of new. And I'm going to say one other thing because Mike touched on this a lot. So Capper, I've mentioned a local framer in Eugene, Oregon. That's not going to be helpful to any of you at home. I want you to go find your local framer. I also want you to go find your local watch retailer. So we've talked about Topper on this show a number of times. Fantastic company. Right? Topper Jewelers, San Francisco, one of the, if not the most famous U.S. watch retailer. We've got a company here called Skies. Skies. Skies, who invited me to a Seiko event this last weekend, where I purchased a Seiko King Seiko, the new King Seiko, which I love. And it's gone on my wrist right now. Find that company locally and go fucking buy something from them because That, I think that is a full circle sort of a bonus. Find your local company, find local people that have cool shit and spend money at that place. |
| Mike Pearson | And you'll never know who's going to be in that store on that showcase next to you because there's a, I would always say that this community, it's very hard to talk to a lot of our friends about this hobby. But if you can find someone like-minded who does not make fun of you for spending this money on things on your wrist, make friends with them and stay friends with them because you need them in this hobby. |
| Everett | Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining us. Andrew, before we go, is there anything you want to add? Because I think we're there. I'm all out of things, man. Frankly, I think we're there. I think we're close. Mike, you've been invited 40 and 20 to watch Clicker podcast. You're invited again in the future. But before you go today, is there anything you want to add? |
| Mike Pearson | Thank you for having me on today. I wish you nothing but success with your new venture with your partners. But for everyone out there, if you've got any questions, you can contact me easily on Instagram at Mike Pearson six, or you can just look at any of the Zodiac watches, uh, social media for questions, but we've got a lot coming out. So be along for the ride. And if you like it, great. And if not, give us a smack and let us know how we can be better. Uh, but we really appreciate everyone out there. Thank you. |
| Everett | You can find Mike at Mike Pearson six on Instagram also at Zodiac watches on Instagram. There's a blue check Mark. You can also go to Zodiac watches.com and you can fucking buy some watches. |
| Mike Pearson | The ever upgrading website, it's looking better every time. It is a process, but we're getting there. |
| Everett | And thank you guys for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the WatchClicker podcast. If you want, you can check us out on our social media at 40 in 20 or at WatchClicker on Instagram. That's where we kind of give you updates. We post some cool pictures and we kind of tell you what we're doing. We tell you what we're doing on our website, WatchClicker.com, which is where we post a every episode of this podcast, but also weekly reviews, articles, cool shit. Like, Hey, just check us out. Cause it's great. If you want to support what we're doing at watch clicker, you can do that at patrion.com slash 40 and 20. Look, this is not cheap to do what we do hosting for photographs and audio and all that stuff. It costs money, but, but we're here for it. And you're here for it. Patreon.com slash 40 and 20. And, and that's how you can support us. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye bye. |