Episode 180 - Pilots Watches - What Even Is It?

Published on Wed, 06 Apr 2022 22:27:21 -0700

Synopsis

Andrew and Everett have a wide-ranging discussion about pilot's watches, exploring their history, different interpretations and categories, and specific examples like the Santos, Flieger, Nighthawk, Navitimer, Seagull 1963, and Omega X-33. They debate whether there is a coherent definition of a "pilot's watch" or if it's simply a catch-all category for watches with certain aviation-related features. They also briefly discuss Everett's new sandbag workout equipment, Andrew's recommendation of the TV show "Severance" on Apple TV, and Yellowstone Season 4.

Transcript

Speaker
Andrew Hello fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 1420 The Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Everett I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I, uh, you know, feel like my whole life is just sort of restorative right now. It's palliative. I'm, uh, you know, just everything I do is just pain control. No, I'm not really. I'm good. I, uh, two weeks out from wind up San Francisco. So I'm excited about that. I inadvertently planned a cross country trip yesterday. Uh, yeah. And so I'm excited about that. You were kind of kidnapped a little bit.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah. Shanghai, I think is maybe the most appropriate term for that.
Unknown Sure.
Everett Sure. Yeah. Uh, You know, basically I agreed to go to a football game thinking the game was in Eugene, when in fact it was when it's in Atlanta. And so I'm going to Atlanta where the players play. And the Ducks apparently. Yeah. This September. And the Dawgs. And the Dawgs. Yeah. The Dawgs don't normally play there, but they are going to play there.
Andrew Yeah. For this one time only special event.
Everett So yeah, that happened. Uh, but yeah, otherwise I'm good. Andrew, how are you? I'm not good.
Andrew I had a bad day.
Everett I feel like that is the theme of how are you doing?
Andrew Yeah. Well, usually I don't have like bad days. Like I have, you know, everyone has hard days. Today I had a bad day. Today I suffered a catastrophic mechanical failure of my car while I was on the way home. And this is one of those mechanical failures that, like, I knew it was on the horizon. I just figured it would hold off until I got it into the mechanic shop, which was already scheduled before the catastrophic failure, which is maybe my fault. Maybe I shouldn't have scheduled my appointment with the mechanic. So I had a break issue, for those of you who I haven't already explained this to. I had a brake issue and I just knew, I was like, oh, my brakes need replaced. Well, the day my brake pad fell out of my caliper, but you can't diagnose that while you're driving. You just have to like, you make a choice, either limp home or get towed from where you are, or you can get out, diagnose it and realize that you could maybe fix it with the tools that you have in your toolbox and then limp home. I elected to limp home, which is an extremely stressful drive with a squishy brake pedal in 5 p.m. traffic. We don't live in a big city, but we do have rush hour traffic. And to use engine braking and momentum exclusively in rush hour traffic is... Let me ask you a question.
Everett Does Andrew, the law enforcement officer, and does Andrew, the guy who's just trying to get his truck home at rush hour in the afternoon, do they make different decisions in this situation?
Andrew Andrew, the law enforcement officer, has given Andrew, the member of the motoring public today, a traffic citation for the exact behavior that he exhibited. I had a feeling. That's called operating an unsafe vehicle. It was willful. But I also didn't, I was a hazard to the motoring public unbeknownst to the motoring public. It ain't cheating if you don't get caught. Right. If I had been in a crash, if I had made unsafe choices barring the operation of my unsafe vehicle, I would have gotten a ticket, I would have eaten it, and I would have deserved it. But.
Everett And you'd have gotten like a ribbing around the station.
Andrew Oh God, I would have been miserable. It would have been very unpleasant and I would have deserved it. But you can you can do things that are not necessarily safe and make safe, like mitigating decisions on that, right? You don't drive on an interstate at 25 miles an hour because that's the safe operating speed of your vehicle. That's, that's unsafe.
Everett I tell my wife the same thing. You can, you can mitigate the risks all the time. I usually don't have a shirt on.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew I know the route. Like I knew the route I needed to take that had two stop signs instead of my usual route, which has several stop lights and several stop signs. I took the route that had minimal traffic control devices and also minimal traffic. This is like one of those secret routes through town that people just don't take because it's not the most direct. Yeah, but it also requires very little breaking. I get it, man. So yeah, that's that was my day and then it's dealt with your cars at the shop. Yeah, my car got towed to the shop today and they're going to fix it. And when I got home, I was able to diagnose the squishy brake pedal and be like, oh, okay, that caliper goes in this. Yeah, that brake pad goes in that caliper. You don't belong there, friend. Uh, so it was a, uh, not as catastrophic as I thought it would be. It's the same issue.
Everett It's just a little bit shorter timeline, you know, and much as the whole world, myself included, probably not the whole world, but as much as the world thinks of podcasts in terms of car talk, this is an auto podcast, right?
Andrew This, We are talking about watches today.
Everett We are. And we're going to, you know, as we were prepping for this episode, as I was reading and researching, I was like, we've talked about this before, but I think we've, we're going to sort of bring together a bunch of different things that we've talked about.
Andrew I think we're maybe going to renounce our previous episodes on this topic via this topic.
Everett Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what you mean by that, but maybe we'll see. I guess we just see how this goes. I don't plan on making a renouncing shit.
Andrew I stand by it and I believe this too.
Everett But we're going to talk about pilot watches today. We're going to sort of. Comprehensively trying to understand.
Andrew The idea of a pilot's watch, yeah, yeah, and I'm going to give you my hot take right now. There's no such thing as a pilot's watch.
Everett Yeah. Or, or there are several different things known as a pilot watch.
Andrew Which means there's no one thing known as a pilot's watch.
Everett Several one things.
Andrew Exactly. It is the island of misfit toys. It is the worst defined most all encompassing catch all. definition of a watch.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett Right. Yeah, I think so. I mean, well, we're going to look at this. We're going to talk about kind of what it is and then we're going to talk about the most common different versions of this or maybe some of the most common different versions of this as we progress.
Andrew Yeah, because there are some really traditionally accepted pilots watches, but they also kind of come with their own terminology, right? Like a fleeger. You know exactly what I'm talking about. A pilot's chronograph, you have an idea in your head that is wholly different than the idea that I have in my head. They're like not even in the same ballpark.
Everett Well, maybe the best way to start this episode, and this is a fun place to start, because it is kind of the start of the story of wristwatches. We're going to go back to 1904 and talk about a fellow named Alberto Santos Duand. Now, if you don't know who Alberto Santos Duand is, it's because you're not a Brazilian. Brazilians will tell you that he was the first person to fly an airplane. And there's some caveats there. There's some big caveats there. There's some caveats. So, famously, the Wright Brothers first manned air flight, 1903. But there's some problems with the way they did it. They, like, sort of launched off a pole with a slingshot type thing.
Andrew And kind of mostly just, like, arrested their momentum-ish while they fell to the earth.
Unknown That's right.
Andrew That's right. So... They were maybe the first parachuters.
Everett Alberto Santos Duman is the first guy who flies a self what's I wrote down a word here unassisted so powered space flight so he or not space not a powered airplane flight so he so first he was a lighter than air pilot prior to this and in 1906 he designs an airplane it's got wheels it's got a motor You can be stopped and then unassisted take off all by himself. And he's kind of the first guy that does this. And there's a number of folks who'll say he's first. It's kind of a pissing contest, right? I mean, I think- Who was the first to summit Everest?
Andrew The dude who wrote the history and published a pamphlet first.
Everett In any event, this guy is kind of a celebrity, right? He's got this really flamboyant personality. He's got this great mustache. He's this dude- 1904. That's right. He's a dude. He's a dude. And he's friends, he's really good friends with a guy named Louis Cartier. Uh oh. That's a name we start to know. That's a name we start to know. So Louis Cartier one day in Santos Dumont or I think probably sitting down in a cafe somewhere drinking expensive cocktails, talking about the things, aristocracy, who knows. They're sticking it to the man. Our friend Alberto says, hey Louis, I need a watch that I don't have to pull out of my pocket. This pocket watch is so annoying.
Andrew And it's huge and it's attached to my waistcoat. It's obnoxious.
Everett So in 1904, Louis Cartier.
Andrew I need both hands to manage this thing that I'm flying through the air.
Everett makes his buddy Alberto Santos Dumond, a.k.a. Santos, makes him what a lot of people will tell you is the first wristwatch. And then you'll say, well, is that really the first wristwatch? And they're like, yeah. And you're like, that isn't. And they're like, OK, well, so it's the first purpose built wristwatch. And then you're like, but wasn't there purpose built wristwatches? And they're like, whoa. OK, so it's the first purpose built wristwatch made for men.
Andrew An aviator, specifically.
Everett So a lot of people will tell you the Santos Demand is the beginning of wristwatches, and I might be okay with that statement. It's sort of the beginning of the wristwatch movement, especially as it pertains to men, because in the first part of the 20th century, if a woman did it, it was dumb, and if a man did it, it was a thing. So we're kind of there, right? Yeah. And so for seven years, our friend, Alberto is the only guy that gets this thing, and it's beautiful. It looks just like a Santos today. Yeah. I mean, it's missing a few features. I don't think it had screws on the face, but it's a precious metal, tiny little, I think like 28 and a half millimeters, this tiny little, beautiful, gorgeous Santos. And for seven years, he was the only guy that got him. And then in 2011... 1911, not 2011.
Andrew It happened sooner than that.
Everett At 1911, Cartier makes these things for the world. But really, this is kind of, in some respects, the beginning of the story of wristwatches. So first wristwatch, the first wristwatch, I'm putting my finger quotes up, is a Pilot's Watch. And it's nothing like any of the other Pilot's Watches that we're going to talk about today.
Andrew And to be fair, Cartier is unlike any other watch brand in the world. Yeah. They exist in this really unique, high fashion, luxury jeweler, luxury stuff. They're just unique. They're unusual to be in the horology conversation.
Everett Well, in the 20th century, that was watches. Watches were high end. And they've just kind of held it. And it's decorated. Cool. Yeah. So as far as characteristics that we think of in terms of pilot watches, this was a watch and that's kind of it. You know, like it was a watch that had a strap and that's it. It was notable because a pilot wanted it for having his hands free as he operated his plane. But beyond that, this didn't really do pilot things.
Andrew But it also didn't not do pilot things. Sure didn't not do them. Right?
Unknown Sure.
Andrew When you can, when you consider what the requirements are of early aviators, they're significantly greater than the requirements are of modern aviators. And modern aviators have all this cool technology, not just in their aircraft, but on their wrist to ease their aviation. And when you think of the Santos, it's a three hand legible watch. That was the peak of aviator need for watches. And that's what they had. No instruments in the aircraft besides like what they could see, which is literally just out of the aircraft and the earth that they were soaring above. maybe hover, not hovering, gliding above, gliding, falling too. And now aviators don't need anything. There's a, there's a, there, we call it autopilot, right? That's a thing for a reason. Yeah. And we also have the most technologically advanced instruments that can be worn on your wrist.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett So I mean, it's like just like a dive watch in the dive computer.
Andrew Yeah. But when we think about pilots watches, in my head, I immediately go to a big dial, like 40 to 45 watch. Super simple three-hander with adequate loom. Doesn't even need to be good loom, just adequate loom. maybe a 24-hour track, and that's it. That's what I think of when I think of a pilot's watch. But I see up on your phone, first watch you want to talk about is the Nighthawk.
Everett It's not the first watch I want to talk about. It's the first watch that's up. I think I want to talk about that last. OK. I think I want to talk about that watch last. We don't have to talk about it last. Well, fuck it. You sort of ruined it. I ruined it. You ruined the surprise. Well, maybe you shouldn't have flashed me the kimono. Yeah. So let's talk about this one just just quickly here because it's an interesting watch. It doesn't look like a pilot's watch. Yes, it does. It only looks like a pilot watch because you've opened this world up and said there's no category.
Andrew There's airplanes on it. It looks like a pilot's watch.
Everett We do have some categories that we're going to talk about. But this is a purpose built pilot watch. And so just moving through it, there's a couple problems with this watch, but they can be remedied. So first is big crown.
Andrew Big old crown to be worn in gloves. Cause it's cold when you're playing in an airplane. It's got a big old crown.
Everett It's got, it's got a big face, a big dial, right? So, and when you see this thing in person, it's actually bigger than you might expect. It's chonky. Yeah. And the watch isn't that big, but that die, it's all dial. I would say legibility is a problem with this watch. It is got a very busy duck.
Andrew But you know what? It's legibility issue in the way like a Texas instrument calculator has legibility. You look at that thing for the first time when you take algebra and you're like, what the fuck is this? There are 2,000 buttons on this calculator. I'm accustomed to 0 through 9, plus, minus, divide, times, equals, and then the CE button that nobody knows what it does or what it stands for. And then you get this instrument with two and a half times more buttons that all have great functionality, have great value, and are tools that you need to do the job that you don't know what you're doing yet. That's this Pilot's Watch. This is too advanced for us.
Everett Well, it does. I mean, so this has got some functions on it that are easy to use, right? So it's got, I think that it has a... Tells time. It's got a dual time function, right? So, oh yeah, it's got the white airplane red.
Andrew It's got the white and red for your dual time 24 hour track, which is... really innovative to save space.
Everett It's got a slide rule, which nobody knows how to use. An index slide rule. Um, and we'll talk about that a little bit later. Uh, maybe in just a second. It's got a date function. It's got big 12, six. So yeah, I think when I think of a pilot's watch, this isn't what I think about, but this is in many ways a really potentially, um, purpose built pilot watch. Best in class even. Yeah, I mean, certainly in there, right? And in terms of a watch, we talk about this often, but in terms of a watch, it's got all the things I want, right? It's got a good degree of water resistance. It's got cachet, quote-unquote x-factor, if you will. It's got a great movement, a fun movement in any event. EcoDrive is just fantastic technology, even if it's a little boring. Yeah, this is a great watch. It's going to last forever. It's going to be accurate. If you're actually using this for piloting things, you're going to be able to.
Andrew And we'd love to hear from you if you're actually using this for piloting things, because neither of us know how to use a slide rule, even as a softboil leg timer.
Everett Well, why don't we start there then with the slide rule? And although the Nighthawk is a slide rule watch and it features prominently on that dial, it is not the slide rule watch.
Andrew No.
Everett The slide rule watch, as we've talked about pretty recently, is the Breitling Navitimer. Yes, the Breitling Navitimer. So the 50s, Breitling comes out with the Navitimer. And prior to the 50s, really, engineers, scientists, basically anyone in a profession where you need to do calculations and conversions, math, so designers, would use a thing called a slide rule, and you've seen these things, no doubt, but it's like a stick. It's actually three parallel rulers, and oftentimes the middle one slides, thus slide rule. And you slide it out upon an index to make conversions. It's a calculator. It does division and multiplication. And that's what it does. Aided by the human brain. Aided by the human brain, that's right. It is, so a slide rule is built on a logarithmic scale, which means, which means that it, it orders, orders of magnitude control the increases. So as you know, as you go more distance, you've got a less, a smaller, higher distance means a smaller interval.
Andrew You have to do the small math so that the slide rule can do the big math. That's right.
Everett It also of slide rule generally ignores decimals. Yeah. So 50 can be 500 or it can be 5 or 5,000. That's right. A slide rule ignores decimals. So you have to have a pretty good idea. So I watched a few videos on this today, actually, as we were studying for this, because I kind of wanted to be able to talk about it.
Andrew And I'm not smart enough. I don't get it. I've watched videos on it. I'm like, I don't fucking get it. I just want to be able to time my soft-boiled egg?
Everett You know, I think it's probably like anything else that if you got this, so A, I don't think it would be a good soft-boiled time. I know that's always the joke. I don't think it really is necessary for that.
Andrew No, it needs longer. It needs bigger math.
Everett No, really, I mean. What it needs is a conversion. What a slide rule does is it converts things. So if you need to convert how much fuel you've used. Miles to hours. How many miles per hour. If you need to convert standard to metric, if you need to convert miles to kilometers, right? A slide rule will allow you to make those conversions. That's what we typically think. But really, it's just multiplication and division. That's what a slide rule does. And so it uses an index. If you'll ever look at a Breitling, there's a red indicator at 10, which is, I think, at the 10 o'clock or at the 10 minute mark. Um, and that is sort of the guide to everything. You set the 10 where you want the thing, and then you'd look around either on the big scale or the small scale, depending on if you're dividing or adding. And that's your answer. So I saw a video of a guy showing a, how to convert miles to kilometers or vice versa. I can't remember. I think it was vice versa and B how to calculate a tip. I was like, Oh, this is great. I get this. I get this. Um, so that's really what it does, but for a pilot, that kind of information can be incredibly useful. And we talk a lot about divers don't use dive watches anymore. They use dive computers. Well, pilots today still learn how to use a slide rule to make on the fly calculations. Um, and the reason they do. is because sometimes you don't have the ability to use a calculator or whatever. Sometimes all you need is a quick number. And so if you have a slide rule, you can make that number on the fly.
Andrew Uh, so it is still, yeah, that was unintended, but, uh, I was thinking of like Southwest pilots, like we need to do an emergency landing here. Cause there's a pilot attacking our staff or not a pilot, a passenger.
Everett Well, yeah. And maybe you could use a slide rule for that. So in any event, it's a thing, right? This is a thing. And it's beautiful. And this is, for me, one of the iterations, more than a Nighthawk, one of the iterations of a pilot's watch. Do you know why it's beautiful though?
Andrew Because it's this really elegant solution to a pretty complex problem.
Everett That's why it's beautiful to me. Yeah, the rotational slide rule is a cool thing.
Andrew Like props to that, dude. Simple solutions to complex problems is like the truth. And that's what a slide rule is on a watch. Yeah. That's in my head. Like that's a component of a pilot's watch. But that's not what I think of when I think of a pilot's watch. I'm thinking of a three-hander with a triangle at the north.
Everett You're thinking of just a Flieger. Just a Flieger. A Be-er. Yeah. Be-er-in.
Andrew That's a pilot's watch to me.
Everett So Flieger means pilot, B.Urin means observation watch, aka navigator. Yeah, and I think for many, many people, probably most people, when they think of pilot watch, that's what they think of.
Andrew And I don't go Naptimer, I don't go X33, I don't go to any of these computers. Even though those are the most functional tool for the job. Yeah. I certainly don't go 1963. which is also a pilot's watch.
Everett Yeah. Well, so let's talk about the Flieger. So we've talked about this recently. Like I said, this watch is going to be kind of a culmination of a number of this episode is going to be a culmination of a number of different episodes, but the Flieger is maybe the pilot watch.
Andrew No Santos is the pilot watch.
Everett Okay. So after the Santos, the Flieger is maybe the pilot watch. And I, uh, I always think of these things in context of modern watches, right? Because it's something you can buy a Flieger today. But it's important to note that these were not what we think of today. And that you basically cannot buy an actual Behrin Flieger. They make them. I think Laco sells one. But when we talk about a Flieger, we're talking about a 15, 55 millimeter thigh watch.
Andrew You know who still makes those? Locko? Nixon. Oh yeah.
Everett True. Yeah. So you know, you know what these look like. There's two types, type A, type B. Type A is the simple, more, um, more clean dial one through 11 triangle at 12. And they only made those for two years. So 40 and 41. And then after that, the type B, and that is where you have, uh, 5 to 55 track on the outside and a smaller hour ring on the inside. And usually separated, usually sector separation. These things were made of gray varnished brass, typically, sometimes steel. Big ass onion crown.
Andrew So you could use it in gloves because it's cold in an airplane.
Everett And an extra long riveted leather strap so you could wear it around your
Andrew So you didn't have to remove your hands from the controls. Yep. Cause you should not one handed fly.
Everett Or drive home with outbreaks.
Andrew You know, we all make choices. But the functionality, right? I mean, and that's, I think maybe the defining factor of a pilot's watch. You know, we, we think about, What makes a dive watch? Well, it's a dive timer, whether it be an internal or external rotating bezel, water resistance. If we think about a driving chronograph, you got to have a chronograph, right? That's in the name. We think about a field watch, which is discrete, loom, 12, 24 hour track. And I think the pilot watch defining factor is a tool. It might not be all the tools you need, but it's a purpose specific tool, whether it be a slide rule, whether it be legibility and a big ass strap to wrap around your thigh, it's a specific function toward the goal of the intended end user, even if they're not the same. Because an SNK is as much a pilot's watch as an Abitimer is as much a pilot's watch as Santos. And those watches have nothing in common besides the fact that they are watches. Right? There's a tool, there's a functionality there that exists that's purpose-driven to a pilot. Like, this thing would be convenient for a pilot to have.
Unknown Hmm.
Everett Yeah, well, right, I think... Yeah, I have no fucking clue what you're talking about. It's all right. Yeah, well, I mean, the point is, right, that a wristwatch just, period, was useful for a pilot in a way that it was not immediately apparent to everyone should be useful for everyone.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew A slide rule is not valuable to me. I like it, but that doesn't make a pilot's watch. It is a component of many pilots watches, but purely having a slide rule doesn't make it a pilot's watch, but it does. It's kind of a conundrum, right?
Everett Yeah. Well, I think that's the nice thing about pilot's watches is they come in so many different, uh, they come in so many different forms that you can kind of pick the one you want.
Andrew Well, we can, we can move on. So we've talked about, you know, the origin, we've talked about the Fleeger, we've talked about the Nighthawk. Yeah. Let's move on to a 1963.
Everett Well, so, so, and, and it bears mentioning that the Fleeger also comes in a chronograph iteration. So yeah, there weren't specific, specifications for the Flieger chronograph, but the Flieger watch that we think about was also made by several companies, notably Hanhart and Tutima for a Flieger chronograph, uh, based on, you know, whatever literature was out there. And so, yeah, that's where my head immediately goes. When I think of a pilot's chronograph, I think of the 1963 of their project 304 from the people's liberation army. in Cold War China. Which is diminutive. Small-ish, yes.
Andrew And its only real functionality, beyond being a dress watch, is its chronograph functionality. But it's a pilot's watch.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew Simply because it has a chronograph. Which is a dumbed down, you got to do more math, slide rule. The math isn't done on the bezel. You got to do it in your head against time.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew That a Navitimer and a 1963 are in the same shoot of watch style. It's hard for me to accept, but we accept it. When you really think about it, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make any sense at all.
Everett Yeah. I love my Seagull 1963. So the Seagull 1963 is interesting for a whole bunch of reasons. Uh, none of which are its capabilities as pilots watch beyond being a chronograph. Like you said, um, And we don't need to get into them today, but you know, it was made by the PLA in 1961. It's actually, so we all refer to them as 1963. And I think even collectors who are talking about the original are oftentimes call them in 1963, really more appropriate. It's called a project 304, um, which was the name of the project, um, designed in 1961 and finally produced in 1963. Um, those watches are cool. Those watches are cool. They're affordable. They're beautiful. They are beautiful. Uh, the ST 19 movement is really a fantastic thing. And the fact that there's a company, several companies, perhaps still making that same dozens, maybe ST 19, uh, column wheel chronograph today. And it works usually. Uh, it's, it's, it's a really cool watch. I'm glad it exists. I'm glad to own one. But yeah, your point is what about this makes it a pilot watch? Well, it's a watch that someone made for a pilot.
Andrew Very much like the Santos.
Everett Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps maybe a little bit more functional than the Santos just by way of having a chronograph, but you pay enough attention to your watch.
Andrew Any watch is a chronograph.
Everett Yeah. So I think in this line, so we're going to go back in time just a little bit back to World War II, because I think there's one other watch that we can kind of lump into these. But Seiko, our friends at Seiko, who were not our friends at the time of World War II, also made a watch called the Tenkosu Seikosha, a predecessor to the brand we know as Seiko. And these are oftentimes referred to as the Kamikaze watch, right?
Andrew Yes.
Everett That's a little bit of a misnomer.
Andrew Because none of the Kamikaze watches survived. Right. Just by nature of what they did.
Everett These were made for pilots of a certain type of aircraft, which were in fact used for Kamikaze missions.
Andrew Intended to crash.
Everett Intended to crash. But the watch itself, the Tenkosu, was made for the whole army.
Andrew Even the pilots intended to return. Or the whole Air Force. Yeah, that's right.
Everett Uh, these are, I think from what I can tell, these are all type B fleegers. So they certainly weren't of the same design specifications.
Andrew And if you can look at them, which isn't shocking given the, um, you know, friendliness during the era, I'm sure there was technology sharing.
Everett Well, and, and, and Japan was, was kind of isolationist too. Um, I think these are not as legible, uh, a watch as the, as the fleegers. Um, but they're, they're pretty cool. And they're also huge 48, I think 48, 49 millimeters on the Tenkosu.
Andrew So, um, you need that legibility. I mean, that's when I think of a pilot's watch, when I'm thinking design something for a pilot who exists in a marginally environmentally stable atmosphere. wide variation of temperatures, wide variations of visibility. I'm not, I'm not going to give them a 36 millimeter watch with Roman numerals because that doesn't make sense. You need that big dinner plate visibility. You know, loom technology is not in, in the mid 20th century. So you need something big. You smear it off with your thumb and get the fog off and hopefully it's not on the inside.
Unknown Right?
Andrew Yes. But here we are at 1963 from the same, like virtually the same era. You're 38.
Everett I think the final big category of pilots watches that we haven't yet talked about, we talked about it just a little bit at the beginning. Um, I don't tend to think of GMT watches as pilot watches, but it is a feature that was designed for air travel.
Andrew Yeah. Pilots, not just air travel, but pilots. Yeah.
Everett Yeah. So, so a dual time feature, Pan Am pilots, uh, famously, um, wanted to have this dual time feature. I want to be able to tell time in two different times on this one. I need to know what time it is in the place I left and what time it's going to be in the place I left.
Andrew Or, or even, and you know, when we're in the origination of Zulu time, which is GM, like true Greenwich mean time, GMT, what, which is the, the, the standard by which pilots operate. Okay. So it's three o'clock where I'm taking off, but it's X o'clock. GMT. I am expected to arrive at X o'clock GMT. I'm going to keep my watch on where I am so I can physically, you know, for crew rest, track how long I've been working. That's a huge functionality.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew Like not just for safety, but for just like peace of mind. It's hard to drive until God knows when. But when you know you've only got an hour and 45 minutes left on that trip, you get the power. Like Jesus comes and sits in your lap and just like powers you through that 18 hour haul. That's important. And for more than just like the morale, but also like functionally, okay, these are the things that have to occur after landing. These are like, there's, there's, logistics parts that go into that. And that's, I think for me, beyond legibility, one of the most important parts of a pilot's watch is a dual time capability.
Everett Yeah. Well, and I think that's one of the reasons that the first watch we talked about today, that Nighthawk is such a good pilot's watch because it does all of the actually complicated things that we want It does the simpler things, the basic timekeeping, but it's also got dual time. It's also got your... With airplanes on it, which is cool. With airplanes. It's also got your slide rule. So in some ways, the Nighthawk is the culmination of these ideas. Now, you don't get a chronograph.
Andrew You don't get... But you can use your slide rule as a chronograph.
Everett You can use your chronograph as a slide rule, perhaps, if you're smart.
Andrew I think if you're smart, you can use your slide rule stopper as a chronograph. You just have to commit some shit to memory. I'm not wearing a chrono. Are you wearing?
Unknown No.
Andrew Yeah, you are. No, but you don't have a tack on it. If you look at a tack... Yeah, I do. Oh, yeah. You can look at it and you can acknowledge, like, these are approximations of where things belong on attack. And against a slide rule, you can use your second hand to perform that function. It's a higher level functioning, but if you can use a slide rule, you can, you can reasonably accomplish that higher level.
Everett I'm going to acknowledge that you've already stated you don't know how to use a slide rule. So we'll take what you're saying now with a grain of salt, because I don't think that actually is a thing, but I think you can. to show me what you're talking about. Um, so yeah, in some ways that Nighthawk is the culmination of those ideas, right? Um, and that makes it interesting and it makes it fun and it's a good watch. I don't know. Um, I don't know that any of this stuff is necessary. What with Apple watches or whatever, but it's all kind of cool. So, um, I think the final watch that we kind of talked about before we went live is the Omega X33 Skywalker.
Andrew Which is the astronaut watch of the day.
Everett Which is the astronaut watch of the day, that's right.
Andrew And they're doing a lot of flight.
Everett Yeah, I think probably they are. This is a pretty neat watch. The X33 in general, as well as the Seamaster iterations that preceded Um, but this is kind of if, you know, I, I think it was one of the big watch blog, bigs wrote an article about this at one time and said, if you were going to sit down and design a watch for pilots in particular space pilots who operate on different plane, right? This is the watch you'd design. And, and in some ways that's exactly what they did. So it's an anti-digi.
Unknown Mm.
Everett It's an anti-digi watch, so you've got an analog function and also a digital function. Which gives you inherent dual time. That's right. That's right. But in addition to that, you've got all sorts of special features that are specific to space missions. So you've got the features that get spoken about most often with the X-33 are the maintained mission elapsed time, and phase elapsed time, which are things that are necessary for space missions. I don't think that the X-33 is on NASA's current space timer list, but it is on the ESA's space timer list. And it does things that the ESA wants you to have for International Space Station, for ISS missions. And those things are mission elapsed time, and phase last time, MET and PET. The other thing that comes up with the X33 often is its alarm. Supposedly this thing has an alarm that is like the same decibels as a vacuum cleaner. And even people who are like, don't need this thing are like, that's a sick alarm.
Andrew How does a watch that is 44 millimeters
Everett Which is also a bit of a misnomer, it's more like a 42mm watch.
Andrew Yeah, I mean speedies wear small, but not lug to lug. And I don't know, I've never worn an X33. Nope, me either. I want to wear an X33, because that might be my Speedmaster.
Everett But how does it watch? How does it do that? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, maybe it's like one of those old MIDI speakers.
Andrew Like a baby, just like... just can turn it on.
Everett Supposedly it's really loud though.
Andrew But that's the, that's the space watch to me. That's the flight watch. That's the pilot's watch. The next 33. It's purpose designed in every single characteristic to be for pilots. Cause that's all astronauts are. pilots is they just travel vertically instead of horizontally. And then they eventually travel horizontally. This travel vertically for further smack my mic while I was doing a vertical hand motion.
Everett So you, you started with the thesis that pilot watches was kind of a meaningless phrase. Uh, I think that in some ways it's not meaningless, it's just multi-definitional. Have you changed your position on that at all?
Andrew No, my position remains. Pilot's watches are the island of misfit toys. They are a watch that has one characteristic, just one single characteristic, that would be beneficial to a pilot. Whether it be legibility in the way of size, lume, a tool, It is the watch category that we throw watches in that fit in no other category, but we still like. Yeah. Cause watches we don't like don't get, don't become pilots watches, right? I mean, when you think about one watch that you don't like that, it's just like, yeah, I don't know. It's not great. And really any category, you don't go, it's a pilot's watch. It's got three hands. You can read it. You know, I don't know, it fits maybe into this category, but kind of misses in these regards. If you tried to sum up any of the watches we've talked about and the pilot's watch catch all didn't exist. You would have no way to define this watch. Maybe well, it's a driving chronograph, but not because it doesn't have a chronograph. It's got this weird fucking thing that like does the math for you. It's a field watch, but not because it's enormous. And it only has a three, six, nine with a triangle at the 12. I don't I don't know. It's the catch all. And we tolerate this catch all because we love these watches because they're fucking cool.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew And we just accept them as pilots watches.
Everett Andrew, other things. What do you got? I have another thing. I know you do. I can see it.
Andrew I brung it. Minimalist isn't the right word because I buy things to be more minimalist.
Everett That's probably a name for that. Consumerist? Yeah, no, I bet there's something more specific. There's a way to describe people who procure superfluous things in the interest of Minimalism.
Andrew It's me. Um, my workout, I like to do non regular, like non regulated, non standardized workouts. Like I like, I like throwing a barbell, but I would prefer, I prefer like a water can or a sandbag or a duffel bag filled with shit. Because of the stability provides like life is not as regulated as a barbell with plates on each end. It's not I'm not like a functional fitness weirdo. Not a vegan or a CrossFitter, but I like nonstandardized things because I just think that's more especially to me. It's more realistic to the life that I live.
Everett In another life, you might have been a farmer.
Andrew I consider it regularly. Ranching, specifically. I don't want to grow alfalfa. I want to, you know, raise cattle. One of the things that's always kind of intrigued me are sandbags purpose-designed as exercise tools because they have handles. So I finally, with an Amazon gift card accumulation that just occurs over holidays, bought a Brute Force sandbag and I bought the Athlete which is 25 to 75 pound capability and I read a bunch of reviews and I did the thing that I do before I decided on Brute Force and I went for a Brute Force bag. And I was like, man, it's like a hundred and some bucks for a bag with handles. But it's also not, because somebody else is paying for it. So I'm like, what the fuck, whatever. I was in kind of one of those, like, moods where I just didn't care. It was good I wasn't looking at watches, because it would have been, I don't know, divorce territory. And even after I bought it, I was kind of like, hmm, why am I paying this much money for this bag to just hold sand? Because it has handles and has a logo on it. And I came in the mail today. And I haven't filled it up. I get it. I 100% get it. All their reviews are like, the Cordura is in great shape, the stitching's great, the handles are well placed, this thing's never gonna leak sand, and none of these, based on my initial assessment of this thing, were paid reviews. This thing is no bullshit. Like, not just thick Cordura, waterproof cordura. The stitching is robust. The zipper is no bullshit. The zipper on the filler bags is no bullshit. I don't, I accept that it's as much money as I paid for it. Well, yeah, it's made in the United States. It's made in the USA. It's
Everett And if there's a word to describe this thing, just looking at it robust, I would say overbuilt, although that's a better word. Overbuilt is, is not appropriate because it's probably built exactly.
Andrew It's intended to be used violently. That's right. Fill it with sand and do whatever you want to it. And it will not fail.
Everett You've got X-Box stitches at all the intersections. It's yeah. I mean, you can just tell from, you can tell from five feet away that it's, it's a really
Andrew strong thing and then you put it in your hand and you're like, Oh, that was a, so I opened it up and I picked it up and I said, I get it. Yep. Cause I, I've, I love water cans because the weight shifts and it improves your stability. It's a very functional weightlifting and fitness activity because real life isn't stabilized on both sides and precise. Real life is messy shifts. It's, You can deadlift 500 pounds as blow your back out while you're tying your shoe because you sneezed. That's just the reality. So when you train in a way that is dynamic and shifting, it mitigates those things happening in a way that can still happen and you shouldn't sneeze while you're tying your shoe. That's just once you're over 30, don't sneeze while you're tying your shoe. Common knowledge. Everybody knows that. If you think you're going to sneeze, fall down, straighten out, Sneeze. Just accept the shame of the fall and sneeze. Or stand up. Those are your two options. Sometimes sneezes come on quick, though. You might just need to fall. But I've bought a few things where I was like throwing a flyer and then immediately got it and been like, yep, I get it. Usually you throw a flyer and you're like, oh, I accept. This is 100%. I get it.
Everett Well, I'm excited to hear you give the full report once you've used it because I think this is the type of thing that it can be built however well it wants to be.
Andrew I'm going to put it through some abuse. I'm going to go to Lowe's tomorrow and buy 70 pounds, 70 bags. I'm not going to do that.
Everett That might be overkill.
Andrew No, it's too money. Buy 70 pounds of sand and fill it up and start incorporating it into my workout.
Everett And you'll report back?
Unknown Yeah.
Everett So I've got another thing. Do me. So last week I talked about my new saw. My silky gomboy.
Andrew You're a gomboy fanboy.
Everett I'm a gomboy fanboy. And we got some comments. People were like, this is cool. Gardening tools on 40 in 20. I'm all here. I'm here for it. And so I told some people that there was going to be a follow up that a second gardening tool that I picked up and to stay tuned. I am not going to talk about that this week. I had intended to talk about that this week. I'm going to save it for a week because something happened last week.
Andrew And I have to talk about it now.
Everett I watched a show on Apple TV. Apple television? Apple TV. It's not called Apple television.
Andrew Okay. On Apple TV. Regular television is television. It's Apple TV.
Everett I watched a show on Apple TV. It's one of these that I've seen the tile for and I just didn't watch because for whatever reason, and I'm not even sure why, it was just I think the thing was I hadn't heard any buzz. So I flipped by and sometimes if you see a new tile, you don't hear buzz, you're like, meh.
Andrew Can you imagine if somebody 15 years ago was listening to what you're saying right now? Right.
Everett So I'm flipping by. I see the show called Severance. It's got Adam Scott.
Andrew I don't even have Apple TV and I know about Severance.
Everett So I had never heard of it. And finally I'm like, Kim, we should watch Severance. And she's like, well, what's it about? I'm like, I don't know. I kind of read a little bit. It says like, you know, you can't remember what happens at work. I don't know.
Andrew I don't know. What a dream.
Everett So right now we're in between, as we record this, we're in between the 9th and 10th episodes, I think. Anyway, the season finale comes out this Friday. So if you are hearing this on Thursday, you have approximately 36 hours to watch the first eight or nine episodes. Or you have a really good weekend to look forward to. And I recommend it. It is so good. It's scary. It's funny. It's intriguing. The acting is incredible. It's got John Turturro in it. It's got Christopher Walken. It's got Adam Scott.
Andrew Who's one of the more underrated actors of his era? Walken? No, Adam Scott. But Christopher Walken, I'm just saying in his cowbell skit. Yes. It just it really shows his depth.
Everett And you know who he plays in this show? He plays Christopher Walken. Yeah.
Andrew Better than anyone else could ever play Christopher Walken. And nobody knows him.
Everett It's so, I don't even want to say any, I don't, you know, it's one of these things I don't want to say too much, but basically the, the gist is early on, there's an implant put in these people's head that makes it such that when they go to work, they forget who they are in the outside world. And when they get off work, they go back to the regular life. So it basically makes, they have outies. and innies. So the innie's life is separate from the outie's life. Perfect, perfect work life balance. Yeah. Well, that, that, that term comes up quite a bit. You know, if you even spend like two or three minutes thinking about this, you'll, you'll come to some of the conflicts that present themselves in the show, but then obviously, you know, there's more to it than that. Um, gosh, it's good. And I can't wait for the last episode.
Andrew Some of the best shows have the most simple premise. Yeah. What if you couldn't remember what happened to you at work that day?
Everett Yeah, that's right. And like, this comes up pretty early, like if you hated your job and wanted to quit, how would you communicate that to your outie? Because your outie doesn't know everything is fine. They go home and everything is fine. So you hate your job and there's no way to tell the person who has the power to quit that you hate your job. How do you, how do you resolve that?
Andrew You don't quit your job. You just accept your paycheck. It's fantastic.
Everett It's really, really good. The acting is very good. The story, the pacing is good. The pacing is good. And it's one of these shows where I think the pacing isn't good until it, until it moves it along. And then I'm like, Oh no, the pacing is, the pacing is perfect. Uh, so yeah, can't recommend it enough. A season finale coming out this Friday where this is not a paid spot. Apple television is not paying us.
Andrew They're not sponsoring this episode of 40 and 20. Uh, Everett, he is in fact paying for it. I'll say to, uh, Yellowstone season four, very much the same. It brought back into balance the needless drama.
Unknown Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew Yeah. Like when it ended I was like, wait, what the fuck?
Everett Yeah, it, yeah. I was a little, I was like, man, I'm so used to big things happening.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett It's like Breaking Bad season five. It's like, well, it was kind of boring. Yeah.
Andrew Set too high a bar.
Everett Andrew, anything else you want to add before we go for the day?
Andrew I'm out of things.
Everett You know, I am too. So I'm just going to thank you. And I'll thank you for joining us for this episode 14 and 20 of the Watcher Cleaver podcast. If you want You should check us out on our website, WatchClicker.com. We post every single episode of this podcast there, but also weekly reviews, articles, pretty good shit, especially as of late. You can also check us out on Instagram at WatchClicker at 40 and 20. If you want to support the show, you can do that at Patreon.com slash 40 and 20. It's where we get all the money that we need for hosting. and microphones. We've got like 85 microphones at this point. I break them. And all the other expenses that we have. If you want to support us, we'd love it if you did that patreon.com slash 40 and 20. And don't forget to tune in next week for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Andrew Bye bye.