Episode 178 - All About Doxa

Published on Thu, 24 Mar 2022 06:16:00 -0700

Synopsis

The hosts Andrew and Everett discuss the history of the watch brand Doxa and its recent revival. They cover Doxa's origins in the late 19th century, its popular dive watch models like the Doxa Sub 300T launched in the late 1960s, the brand's dormant period after being impacted by the quartz crisis, and its resurrection in the early 2000s spearheaded by Rick Murray before his split from the brand. They also talk about Murray's new company Synchron and its recent release of a watch inspired by vintage Doxa military models, as well as Doxa's tease about reviving their own "Doxa Army" watch, hinting at a competitive dynamic between the two brands which may involve questions around intellectual property rights.

Transcript

Speaker
Andrew Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 and 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Everett Everett, how are you? I'm good. Andrew, I have a question. Isn't the Red Hook Brewery out of Seattle? Yeah. So why does this can say, yeah, sure, you betcha? I don't understand why.
Andrew I have no answer for you. I don't get it. But they're out of Seattle, and this Big Ballard Imperial IPA is delightful.
Everett Yeah, maybe that's like... I don't know what Big Ballard means. Maybe Big Ballard is a yes or you betcha type of thing, perhaps. That's like a North Dakotaism or something, isn't it?
Andrew I'd attribute it closer to like Wisconsin, but... You betcha.
Everett Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. All right. I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Today was my Saturday. We don't normally record on the weekend.
Andrew On your weekend, oh.
Everett Yeah, that's right, for me.
Andrew It's been a long time since we've done a Saturday or Sunday recording.
Everett I feel particularly relaxed tonight.
Andrew That's how I usually feel.
Everett Yeah. I usually feel like, oh my god, I just... That's how I normally feel.
Andrew Which is how you feel now. It's just less gaggy.
Everett No, I don't even feel... No, I feel like so chill, man. I like... You were home alone all day, though. I prepped the show. I played some iPhone games. I watched a Netflix series about a vegan restaurateur who got scammed by a guy, and I think that it's supposed to be really sympathetic to her, but I'm also like, this lady's a fucking idiot. Play stupid games. Yeah, I mean, it was just like a super chill and relaxed day. I was home alone. Yeah, the family drove up to Portland. So it was like just me.
Andrew Those are the best days.
Everett And the TV. And this prep, this was, I'd say this episode was a little longer to prep than some of them because we wanted to have some notes. But that was nice. It was like a nice relaxed pace.
Andrew That's what I like.
Everett The prep was a relaxed pace. But yeah. Andrew, how are you?
Andrew Frazzled. We leave for Disneyland in the morning. And today was a day. I got off work at 3 a.m. and I decided I left work early. And on January 28th, I scheduled an automobile reservation and got a confirmation. I left work at 3 a.m. this morning. At 855 I was woken up by a phone call. Hey Andrew, this is Garrett with Enterprise. Um, so, we're, uh, here's the thing man, we don't have your car. And frankly I don't know if we're going to. And then he kind of gave me the explanations for why, like excuses, but the explanations for why, and it's because Enterprise does a lot of like insurance rentals, like they rent out their preferred rental agency for insurance companies. So when people have their car getting worked on, their insurance pays for them to get a car through enterprise. And sometimes repairs take longer than are expected. So I, I accept that, but also as somebody who has done a lot of logistics planning and supply chain planning, that's not an acceptable answer to me. So here I am at nine o'clock without a car to take to Disneyland in the morning. So today was a little bit of a scramble. We have a car because neither of our cars are really long road trip friendly cars. And so we decided to rent. We have a car in the driveway. Spent the whole day packing and cleaning the house because for some reason when we go on vacation, we clean the house as if we expect company. Yeah, that's nice though to come back to a neat house. It's nice. I get that, but not at the expense of completing your packing tasks. And that was a little bit of our day. So I just, I had a long, a long day and I'm a little sleepy, but we're drinking beer. We are 95% packed. Everything just needs to go in the car.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew Like suitcases zipped, loaded in the car. Out the door.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew coffee pot scheduled to brew.
Everett Money. We're good to go. Your money. You're so fucking money.
Andrew Yes. And we're gonna drive to Disneyland tomorrow. It's been the week at Disneyland getting sunburned and waiting in lines.
Unknown It's gonna be great.
Everett Do you, you're, you can program your coffee pot? Yes. So I cannot program my coffee pot. And I think that there are some really easy solutions to this, but I think.
Unknown Get up earlier.
Everett Yes, I think instead what I'm going to do is something overly complex like buy a Raspberry Pi and program it with a screen to be like a coffee pot controller. Why not? Yeah, why not? Maybe I'll do it like to all the outlets in the kitchen or something so I can turn things on or off at my will.
Andrew You should be able to, yeah, I mean a Raspberry Pi is the right answer for that.
Everett It's the totally wrong answer, but I think it will be fun. No, that's the right answer.
Andrew That's like, that's exactly what that shit's for.
Everett uh yeah uh we're gonna talk about we're talking about watches today we are and early too we're only six minutes in we're six that's like you guys look that's early like some people are probably gonna miss some of the show because they're gonna go like eight eight and a half nine minutes 15 minutes we're gonna talk about a watch company that i i like i think that everyone likes and even the people that don't like it i think our secret likers yeah you know Uh, so Doxa is the company we're talking about today. And I, you don't hear a lot of bad things about Doxa, although I will say, uh, I was talking to someone about this show today, someone that's near and dear to us. And they said something like fuck that company or something like that. And then didn't ever fill me in on that. Uh, so I, I don't know. Apparently there are some people that have problems with Doxa. I think that they're. Some of the things we're gonna talk about today have left a sour taste in people's mouth. But we'll get to that. I'm getting ahead of myself.
Andrew I think there are some really fair critiques of Doxa, but I don't know if those critiques are, at least for me, rise to the level of being sufficient for dislike. Yeah, sure.
Everett We'll get into it. We're gonna start. Yeah, you know, I pretty much try not to like or dislike things like brands, but it's inevitable.
Andrew There are some brands that I don't like, right? Just, I don't like that.
Everett And you know, it's going to happen. It's human nature. And it's kind of like, if we can't like, or dislike brands, what are we doing here? And it's like sports. If you can't hate sports teams that are not your sports team, then what's the point?
Andrew Everyone should hate the Huskies. That's just like that. That's like a prerequisite for existence. And you don't mean UConn. UConn, you're cool. Yeah, no, UConn's fine. I mean, the Washington Huskies.
Everett You're cool.
Andrew You suck. Yeah. You're cool. You're cool. Fuck you.
Everett So, Doxa. Doxa, what is it?
Andrew It's a watch brand. They make a couple watches. They do. And they've done it about the same since 1973.
Everett So, Doxa is a Swiss watch company. I think officially now, Montress, Doxa, S period, A period, Montress being Watches. I'm probably butchering that, but I think it's close enough. Montreux. Montreux.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah. You got to get more H sound in the ES. Doxa Watches.
Everett Founded in the 19th century. Founded in 1889 by Georges, I think this is actually pronounced Dukkhamen, believe it or not. I think it's Dukkhamen. Georges Dukkhamen. Yeah. In Lalaco, which is. a pretty serious. It's the Mecca. Watch place, right? So the local is in the Jura mountains. Watch Valley, which is home to everyone. Rolex, Omega tits out. The local exactly. So, so end of the 19th century, they're founded in Mecca watch Mecca. Yeah. And then they kinda just coast, right? I mean, they're a serious player. In 1908, Ducamin patents a, so I think he applies for a patent in 1907, and gets a patent for an eight-day movement, which, there's lots of eight-day mechanical movements, particularly pocket watch movements, Panerai, famously has an eight day. They don't, they don't put it in pocket watches.
Andrew They put it in just Panerai's because which are the same size as pocket watches. They just, they put a strap on it instead of as you do.
Everett Um, but yeah, so in 1908 to common patents, this eight day movement, which gets, uh, used in pocket watches, but also notably in dash timers in auto, the auto industry. So they quickly get picked up by a bunch of sort of high-end manufacturers of vehicles, notably Bugatti picks them up and kind of makes them their exclusive dash timer. So Dox is in it. They're making very nice pocket watches, high-end pocket watches on a smaller scale than some of the other brands at the time. And they're making dash timers.
Andrew They got a cush deal with Bugatti. Yeah, that's right.
Everett Yeah. And then they just kind of float. So, you know, for the next 50, 60 years, uh, DOCSIS coasting, they're in the epicenter. So, so both in terms of, or, you know, in terms of their geography, the spirit of the company, their, the function of their company, they're really in the mix of things. But, you know, some of the companies we've talked about on this show, are doing really sort of crazy cool things during this time. I think DOXA is more just kind of in it.
Andrew I think DOXA at this point is sort of incidentally a watch brand. They found their niche in dash timers and they were they were almost a they were less of a orology company than a component company for dash timers. That's the cash cow. I mean, they're still producing watches. They're still involved. They're still in this, the garden of life for watches, but that's not their focus.
Everett Yeah, well, and they are, so they're not at the time producing crazy cool watches. They are producing wonderful watches, and they win several awards. But they are involved in the horology industry. So, Duchovin is at the time, I think at one point he's the president of the International Horology Society. He's president of the Swiss Horology Society. So, he's in the mix and he is very much a part of that political world. I guess not exactly political, but definitely in the world of the industry management. They continue to make dash instruments, continue to make pocket watches, which evolves into dress watches, and some fun artsy stuff, too, particularly in the 60s. Dux starts making kind of cool, fun, but still, you know, luxury watches. Ducatman dies in 1936, I think, at the age of 68. And the brand gets taken over by Jacques Nardin, who is the grandson of Ulysses Nardin.
Andrew This industry is so incestuous.
Everett And Jacques Nardin is, I think, the son-in-law of George Dukaman.
Unknown Yes.
Everett So yeah, right.
Andrew It's like everyone's just fucking each other and popping out kids to take over the Just the, not the industry, but the empires.
Everett That's right. Yeah, definitely some family, some like daughter trading going on or something.
Andrew Which is smart. I mean, that saves a lot on R&D. Right.
Everett And I get it. And so nothing really, nothing really happens with DOXA from, you know, 1908. to 1967. A lot of things happened, but it's nothing that I'm going to talk about today.
Andrew There's nothing revolutionary. That's right. There's nothing game changing. There's nothing even exactly iconic. It's just a perfectly great under the radar brand.
Everett That's a good way to say it, Andrew. Perfectly great. Yeah. And not notable. Yeah. Not notable here 80 to a hundred years later. However, It all changes in 1967 when Doxa introduces a watch we all know today. Everybody knows what a Doxa Sub 300T is.
Andrew And if you don't know the reference, that's the watch you think of when you think of Doxa. That's right.
Everett It's virtually unchanged. And that also goes for like the 1500 and the 4000 and the 600. They're all the same watch. And that is the watch you know. Sometimes they come in black. So this is one of the first watches that really gets designed from the ground up as a diver's watch. There are other, you know, this is 67. So we're kind of late in the game now, right? 50 fathoms is 53. The Submariner is 54. So we're like 15 years later. We're well into the game. Yep. Um, but when you go back and look at it, the 50 fathoms, the submariner, these are really professional tools for a professional industry in the fifties. Diving is a professional industry by the mid sixties. You know, I think that the aqualung gets invented in the late forties, the wetsuit in the first part of the fifties. By the time you get into the mid 60s, there's this democratization of the diving industry, right? So things have become cheaper, more accessible, and there's this new found consumer recreational hobby. So prior to the 60s, you couldn't scuba dive. You couldn't go to your local community center or harbor and take a scuba diving class because it didn't exist.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett People didn't have the red flag on the back of their car. I hate seeing those. There was no, there just, it didn't exist. And so what's happening here is you're seeing a brand new sport, a brand new hobby, I guess. And it's crazy. We just talked about this a few weeks ago.
Andrew Yeah. And you're seeing all the ass of marketing and you look at Rolex ads from these from this era. And I use Rolex as an example because they had an extensive serve or they have extensive surviving print marketing from this era. That's if you're going to do this, you're going to wear a Rolex. And there are things like scuba diving and snorkeling and just your average, what we would now consider to be your average adventure activities. You'd wear a Rolex. So you have this democratization of this hobby. but also this huge push behind get watches on people for the idea of the lifestyle that that watch is going to bring.
Everett I'm trying to think of something to compare it to. Have we ever seen anything like this in our, in our lives, our short lives? Cause we're very young people. Um, you know, a brand new sort of take the world over hobby. I mean, I mean maybe snowboarding to a certain extent skateboarding, maybe when we were kids, tick tock, But right, so it's that kind of thing, you know, maybe eSports.
Andrew I know it doesn't feel exactly the same, but you know, you- I think adventure sports are really like largely our generation's thing. But this is a downhill mountain biking. But I think, you know, yeah, I think just advancements in adventure sports.
Everett So this is a brand new thing, right? And it's this commercial thing turned hobby thing and everybody's like, It's really cool. And space is happening at the same time, right? We're both going up and we're going down all at the same time. And there are a ton of marketing opportunities here. There's clothing, there's equipment, there's people, there's television opportunities, and watches are a player. So we've talked about space. And very recently we talked about watches, particularly the Rolex Deep Sea Dweller and the Doxa, the Conquistador, introduced a few years later. with the helium release valve. So this is happening, and Doxa unveils their 300T. Alongside a billion other watches, right? I mean, there's just a ton of watches that get released that are all doing kind of the same thing. By the mid-60s, everybody's playing catch-up with Rolex and with the Fifty Fathoms. Everybody's there. Seiko's there. The Japanese are there. The Swiss are there. The Americans are starting to get there. But for whatever reason, Daxa shows up and is instantly a hit. Jacques Cousteau picks him up, probably more than anything responsible for Daxa's legacy. Jacques Cousteau picks him up and instantly falls in love. and becomes the sole, the exclusive distributor of DOXA in the United States. So the Aqualung logo that we all associate with DOXA watches, that's Jacques Cousteau's logo, right? Because Jacques Cousteau being part of the company and perhaps one of the inventors of the Aqualung. Dirk Pitt, you know, a couple years later, obviously, but not too many years later, the U.S. Navy Sea Labs divers It's instantly in the mix, and it's in the mix in a big way, probably more so than any other watch besides the Sub at the time. Yeah. You know, there's other watches that are in the game. Panerai obviously is doing its thing, particularly with the military, but Dux is in it, supplying the Swiss Army. Dirk Pitt's wearing them on adventures. Jacques Cousteau's wearing them on adventures.
Andrew And that's the big thing, is this is sort of the origin of brand ambassadors selling watches.
Everett Yeah. Between Everest, space, and scuba diving. But it's an interesting watch. It's not just a marketing thing. This is an interesting watch. The orange dial, Doxa famous for the orange dial because in testing they found it was more visible in murky water. So shocking. They theorize that, you know, it's better to see it at depth, which I think maybe is partially debunked, at least partially debunked at this time. But also that dual time bezel that we talked about a few weeks ago with the no deco US Navy sea labs, no deco scale printed on it. It's a cool, it's a cool watch. One of the very first spring loaded divers extension clasps, they made this watch for diving for divers. So where, where some of the other watches in the industry were sort of modifications of existing platforms, this is designed from the ground up to be a dive watch. And it's the shit man. It's the shit for about 10 years.
Andrew Yeah. Their timing was a touch off.
Everett And so we all know what happens next.
Andrew Is it the quartz crisis?
Everett It is. Yeah, it is the quartz crisis. That's what happens next. Which isn't great. I think it's basically not great for anybody, right?
Andrew That was pretty okay for Seiko.
Everett Uh, yeah. No, you make a good point. But that's about it. Right. Less good for, let's say, Elgin. All the brats that died.
Andrew Yeah, wall them and take your pick.
Everett And Doxa. Yeah. So as the quartz crisis is sort of developing, the writing is on the wall for these companies. And Doxa is one of a handful of companies that gets acquired by this company called Synchron in Switzerland. Synchron is a group basically set up to salvage watch brands. cut costs, share costs, and technology across the brands, and perhaps save some of these brands. So I think SEMA, Syma, Kyma, sure. SEMA, Doxa, Ernest Burrell, and a handful of other companies, smaller companies, all get bought by this company called Synchron, who's really meant to sort of save these, save the bacon of these, of these companies.
Andrew Just be swatch group if they weather the crisis.
Everett Now Synchron sounds familiar to you. There's good reason for that. Just hold your, hold your questions. Put your hand down. I'll get back to it. So Synchron buys these companies and continues to make their watches. So there is a Synchron era of Doxo watches. And they're largely the same, but Because they buy the whole catalog. They buy everything. But it's a short period. It's only a handful of years. I want to say two or three years at the most. And eventually, in 1980, the writing's on the wall, experiment fails, Synchron sells off all of its assets, including the Synchron brand, and the whole thing collapses.
Unknown Womp womp.
Everett No more Doxa. Yep. No more Spirel. No more SEMA. I think at that point SEMA had already been sold to someone else. Um, but these brands are dead. Functionally speaking, go down to the, go down to the Piggly Wiggly and buy yourself.
Andrew Buy them by the pallet. Cause they're, they're clearing them out. Yeah.
Everett And that's it. That's the end of the story. Yeah.
Andrew Until. Until.
Everett Until. 1997. 1997 was a good year. So that was the summer of my freshman year. That's when I was born. 1997, yeah. Yeah, you're a baby. That was the summer of my freshman year in high school. So it was like the first summer of high school. And it was like. Oh, and you were just cool as fuck too. I was not cool, but my life had changed. I had new found independence. And so I remember this very well.
Andrew When the Yen-Yee?
Everett When the Yen-Yee family purchased the Doxa brand. Where do you think they bought it? Do you think it was like, like a flea market?
Andrew And it's just like a... Like a sticker? Like a... A brand registry? Like a paperwork? I don't know. That's something that I've always been curious about. Like zombie brand. Where do you buy these things? Yeah.
Everett And who do you buy them from? You know, we talked to Rich, Time Titans. Wellsboro. Of Wellsboro on the show about this. And for him, I think it was just a matter of finding an old watch, wondering where the brand went, hunting it down, realizing that nobody really wanted it, owned it, and taking possession of it. And just finders keepers, I mean. Perhaps, right? Perhaps. I don't think, I don't get the feeling that that's what happened with the Yeti family and Dux.
Andrew No, I'm sure they had to buy it from somebody who just like... They bought it from a holding company. It was just sitting in a holding company and they're like, yeah, why do you want to buy that? Sure. It's all yours. Regrets now. I'm sure that they let it go for what they did. But yeah, they went out and they finders keepers it. And now we got Lazarus doxa.
Everett That's right. That's right. So I think, uh, the Yenny family is one of these Swiss groups that always gets referred to. Like, in fact, you never hear anybody's name. It's always the Yenny family, right? Oh, the Yenny family this, the Yenny family that.
Andrew I'm sure nobody even knows any of them. They, they all, everything occurs through their spokesperson and lawyer.
Everett But it's just this really vague group that when you hear the Yenny family, it, it for me, it makes me think, well, I should know, I should know who you're talking about. Right. But I don't. And, and you probably won't find a lot of information about the individuals. And I think maybe that's the point. This is a holding company that acts in concert, typically Swiss in terms of the amount of transparency there is publicly about the company. I did find some stuff about the Yenny family though. Okay. So this is an old This is an old company, not an old company, but not a new company. So in its current iteration started in the 60s. Uh, and it was basically, it's basically a early 60s. It's basically a white label manufacturer of dive watches starting in the 60s and going on. So it started by one of the sons. Um, but the family has been. in the watch industry for decades before that. And they're making watches in the 60s and 70s for, they're kind of like chronograph suisse, right? They're making watches for Fortis, Olic and Waj, Waj, Aquadive, Wash, Wash, Olic, and Wajas.
Andrew Olic and wedgies.
Everett They're actually the first company to make a thousand meter dive watch, notably. under the Jenny brand, Yenny brand. I'm going to say Jenny. I like the Jenny brand. Jenny. Yeah. Jenny. Uh, yeah. And today Doxa is the Yenny family. So the Yenny family makes Doxa not a lot more, right? Doxa is the Yenny family and vice versa. They do have the Yenny brand alive, but just barely.
Andrew I'm sure there's still a huge manufacturer in the region.
Everett They may still be making white label watches.
Andrew I'm sure there's still a huge OEM.
Everett And that's it, man. So, DOX is back.
Andrew It's resurrected. It's up.
Everett 2002, DOX is back, and then DOX is 600, and then 1500, and then 4000, and then 200, and then, and then, and then, and then.
Andrew All these iterations of a watch that you can't really tell the difference but for the print on the dial.
Everett hugely popular, well-made, nice wearing. They were big, but they're nice wearers.
Andrew Tracks that haven't changed but for size since 1967.
Everett And I think for most people who got into watches when we did, it probably feels a little bit like Doxa has always been there. A little bit. But Doxa is tourniquet though.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett 20 years ago. Like, oh, what? Doxa? Oh, is that Doxa? Oh, no, it's not Doxa. It's somebody else.
Andrew Because there's, there's, I mean, almost a 20 year absence from the market. This well-established legacy brand.
Everett Even a little bit more than 20 years. So really, last Doxes really get made in this like 78, 79. And the new Doxes don't get released until 2002. So 23, 24 years. Yeah.
Andrew Of just absence. Yeah. That's right. I want a vintage Doxa. Yeah. I want like one of the last runs. Like a Synchron Era. Yeah. Doxa. I never thought I would say I wanted Doxa and now I'm, well I want one.
Everett I want a Doxa. I've always wanted a Doxa. You have. So Doxa is interesting in a few ways to me. So one, Most people, I think, think that Doxa only makes the subs, and they don't. Doxa makes a bunch of different watches presently under the Doxa brand. You can't really buy them in the United States. Maybe you can. I don't know. I don't think that there are distributors, but Doxa makes a bucket load of watches. They make pilots watches and dress watches and art deco watches. I don't know if they presently sell all of those, but there is a big line of DOXs.
Andrew They're full, fully like fleshed out watch company with a really, really popular flagship.
Everett With a really popular flagship. That's right. Uh, so what to note about DOXs. Uh, I think that the only thing I really want to note that you can't tell by looking at them, cause you can see almost everything you need to see just by looking at this watch. It's a big, chunky, broad-sided tonneau case diver. But you may have noticed people talking about a DOXA Professional, a DOXA SeaRambler. DOXA is the only, and that doesn't mean, so a DOXA Professional and a DOXA SeaRambler may be the same exact watch with a different colored dial.
Andrew That's exactly what we're dealing with here.
Everett That's the only company I can think of that does that. So if I want a Doxa professional, I can get the Doxa professional in all across the range. I can't think of another company that does that.
Andrew No, because everyone has the take your pick green. That's right. Take your pick blue.
Everett Yeah, yeah. Can you run us through what the colors are?
Andrew Yeah, yeah. Uh, I'm sorry, I was looking at their catalog, like their vintage catalog on Chrono24.
Everett Well, yeah, some of these old, some of the pre-80s or, you know, the 70s and before, Doxa's kind of cool.
Andrew So, and maybe this is just, this is the name of the watch. You've got your model, your reference number. So we're going to go 300T. Doxa 300T. Your 300T. And then that suffix is your colorway. And every colorway, they're naming, they have a naming convention to go along with it. The professional is the iconic dirt pit orange dial, which speaks to how they felt about their orange dial. That's right. That's, this is what the pros were.
Everett Shark hunter, black dial. That's my favorite of all of those.
Andrew Interesting.
Everett I would have, I would have pegged you as a pro guy. Yeah. Nope. I'm a shark hunter. Just pegged you.
Andrew Uh, you're sea rambler. Silver the metallic silver that that like really? Chrome almost as is like close to chrome silver Now this is a word that I I think I maybe avoided saying on this podcast for a reason Caribbean I think Caribbean or Caribbean.
Everett It's fine. What do you say?
Andrew I'd say Caribbean Of course you would say that I don't know. I don't understand. I don't understand the difference.
Everett I think Caribbean Sea maybe, but Caribbean.
Andrew I'm going to go to the Caribbean and sit on and look at the Caribbean Sea from my deck. I'm like, what? That's stupid.
Everett Yeah, I don't know. I would say you don't have to worry too much about that.
Andrew I'm worried. Blue faced. So the Caribbean. That beautiful ocean blue. Yes, which is really fitting. Diving star. Yellow faced, which I mean, these naming conventions are like really well thought out.
Everett Yeah, I kind of like them. Aquamarine. Less amazingly thought out. Shocking.
Andrew Turquoise. And the white pearl white. So the last two. All one word, white pearl, all one word. Yeah, white pearl. So the last two, they sort of ran out of their creativity, but I don't know. I mean, you're nailing it. There's nobody else that does that.
Everett Yeah, I don't think so. It's a weird thing to do. Yeah, well, I don't know.
Andrew I mean, it's... Why not just have the Doxa Pro in six colors?
Everett It's different. It's different. And they just do it. And there's no explanation. And I like shit like that. Like, why? Why do you do that? I don't know. It's just how we do it. And everybody accepts it. And it's cool. And it's fine.
Andrew I kind of like stuff like that. And it's not, it's not like antiquated. It's still how the references are referred to. Yeah. That's that's actually what they do.
Everett Andrew do you think that there is so. That could be where we stopped the show. It'd be easy to stop the show there. If we stopped the show there do you think people would. I think there's a handful of people that listen to the show that would shit their pants.
Andrew Yeah because there's some there's some questions still floating out there. Man there is. We missed some stuff. There is a 14 karat solid rose gold Dress watch on chrono for $675. $675?
Everett Yeah. Buy it. Look at it. Buy it. Oh, hang on. It's beautiful. Hold on. We're going to watch it up with you listening. Oh, that is really pretty. $36, good size. Buy. Does it run?
Andrew I don't know. I'm a little bit less worried about it running as it being really attractive.
Everett No original box, no papers. What?
Andrew Bye. It's from the, I mean, it's from the 60s. Of course it doesn't have original box and papers. You can't get a 2012 Explorer with box and papers right now. Fuck. So, but, and, and yeah, I think there would be some people out there listening that would have an actual aneurysm. There would be car crashes because there's
Everett Some people wouldn't, right? Most people would be like, okay, that all tracks.
Andrew There's some Nothing Burger controversy, and I think I'm gonna use Nothing Burger maybe a little bit hyperbole there, because there's also something here, but I also don't think it's anything.
Everett Well, let's take it a step at a time, because we owe it to you guys. the conversation to our listeners to talk about a fellow named Rick Murray. Because at this point we've talked about DOXA the brand, we've talked about the old DOXA, we've talked about the new DOXA, we've given you all the official facts, the Yenny family, they own DOXA, they started DOXA again in the early first part of the new millennium. But that is not the story here. No. The story cannot be told without talking about Rick Murray. Now, some of you will know who Rick Murray is, some of you will not. If you don't know who Rick Murray is, we're going to tell you a little bit now, but you should also read about this guy. Andrew, I think Rick Murray, probably as much as, I won't say more than, probably as much as any other single person, Rick Murray is responsible for the resurgence of dive watch popularity starting in the early 2000s. I don't even think that's that much of a hot take. I won't say more than, I'm not saying he's the singular guy, but as much as any other single person.
Andrew Yeah. I mean, I don't think anybody could reasonably refute that.
Everett So we gave credit to the Yenny family for reviving Doxa because they purchased the brand in 1997 and then five years later, four or five years later, introduced this Doxa 300T. The Eni family didn't do this. Credit to that is properly given to Rick Murray. So Rick Murray is a Microsoft employee, Microsoft employee, and then he leaves Microsoft in the last half of the 90s and devotes himself to dive watches. But he does it in kind of an odd way. So the first thing he does is he acquires this brand that we've talked about already tonight. That was also a zombie. That was also a zombie called Synchron Group. Yep. So the same Synchron that was built in the 70s to grab dying Swiss companies, companies killed by the quartz crisis.
Andrew He's carrying on the Synchron legacy.
Everett Is revived in the 90s by Rick Murray to buy these companies, not the same exact companies, but to buy these companies killed by the quartz crisis and bring them back. Yeah. It is really actually kind of a beautiful idea conceptually.
Andrew Uh, like, Oh, this company died trying to do this. I can, I can carry on this legacy. The hibernation is over. Yeah. Yeah. Cause in the two thousands, we're seeing this resurgence in automatic and mechanical watches. We're seeing the true acceptance of that technology. The court's boom, craze really, is over. We have some stability. And it's, he struck while the iron was hot. Five years later and this is a non-issue.
Everett It's just the early days of the internet, early days of watch forums.
Andrew John Kerry had just invented it.
Everett Sal Gore. That's the same guy. He's very much involved. in the populist sort of watch culture at the time, which is the predecessor to our culture. Um, and he's just there at the right time with regular beers, not like that. Uh, entrepreneurial spirit, probably some of that Bill Gates money, definitely some of that Bill Gates money leaving in the, in the late nineties.
Andrew Yeah.
Everett And he's like, let's just fucking do this thing, man. Let's do this thing. And so in 1999, and we should say, he's a Doxa fan. I don't know for sure. My gut is he's a Clive Custler reader in the late 90s.
Andrew Yeah, I think that's a reasonable guess.
Everett And he's like, what's a brother got to do to get a Doxa Sub 300 made? And so he figures out that Doxa's been purchased by the Yenny family and he gets in an airplane
Andrew Because you can do this now. You can search this on the internet.
Everett Flies to Switzerland and says, hello, Mrs. Yenny, Mr. Yenny, Mr. and Mrs. Yenny. I will have a biscuit. And can we, what can we do about this Doxa brand? And they say, no, get the fuck out of here. Nobody wants that old weird seventies orange watch. You're wrong. And he's like, no, they do. And they're like, no, they don't. And he's like, look, I'll buy them. I'll buy them. I'll sell them. Let's do this thing.
Andrew And everyone wins in this offer. Like you sell me a thousand watches and then they're my problem.
Everett Yeah. And I don't think that's exactly how they do it. So the story is not crystal clear to me, but I think what you wind up with is a sort of hybrid. Not quite a licensing deal, not quite a distribution deal. They basically like stand up a separate arm of the company and make him an independent third party administrator for that brand.
Andrew Very seagull.
Everett And it fucking works. It's an instant hit. The thousand watches all sell out by direct sale. So a very modern idea at the time, no retail sales, all of them direct sales. They sell out and here we are a mere 20 years later and DOX is one of the, one of the big dogs. It's not a Rolex, but it's a big company.
Andrew It's a, it's a big legacy Swiss company. That's right.
Everett And for that whole time, Rick Murray was the general manager of the Doxa subline. All of the things that you know about modern Doxa before 2020 or so, all of those things are Rick Murray. And they're not Yenny, they're Rick Murray.
Andrew He still owns Synchron.
Everett Okay, well, hold on. It's important.
Andrew You're jumping the gun. These are things happening in parallel. Yeah, that's right. These are two projects that he is a part of that are happening in parallel.
Everett Yeah. And so Synchron is doing its own thing, right? Yes. Acquiring brands like Isoframe.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett Aquadive. Mm-hmm. Tropic. Yep. I think later Aquastar. I can't remember. I think Aquadive was first, Aquastar later. So all these brands that we talk about all the time now without even thinking about them, Rick Murray at Synchron Group is picking these things up and running with them. So I want to say in the first part of 2019, some of the forums, I think Dive Watch Forum, a couple other forums, there's some users who are involved with DOXA, involved with Dive Watches, who know Rick Murray personally, Word gets out Rick Moray and DOXA have parted ways. And it instantly becomes clear that it's less than friendly. I won't say it's not amicable because I don't know, but word gets out that there's been tension and that the Yenny family is pulling DOXA back to Switzerland. The DOXA sub brand back to Switzerland.
Andrew Centralizing the the brand, which makes sense. It makes good business sense to have your business consolidated rather than like, I don't know.
Everett Well, I don't know that it does, but I don't know that it doesn't either. Um, but in any event, they did it. That's what they did. Yeah. And what we don't know is what the terms of the arrangement were. We don't know if there was a settlement contract, some sort of severance contract. Um, we don't know anything. Maybe somebody does.
Andrew And when I say we, I mean... And the reason we don't know anything is because there was. Yeah, perhaps. If there wasn't, we know.
Everett And maybe you guys know more than we do and you can tell us the details of this story. But it's a settlement contract that I'd probably like to see because of the next thing we're about to tell you. Yeah. So we've said Synchron a handful of times. So there's this Synchron group started in 1963.
Andrew Revived in 1999.
Everett Revived in, yeah, revived by Rick Murray in the late 90s. And then there's a separate brand, not separate, there's an additional Synchron that you will probably know about because... It's a brand. In March 2021, Rick Murray announced a watch. A Synchron Military Watch. If you saw that watch for the first time and you said to yourself, huh, this kind of looks like a Doxa, there's a good reason for that, because it's a Doxa homage. It's an homage to a late 70s Synchron Era Doxa army watch, probably only issued to the Doxa army, probably made in a quantity.
Andrew Doxa didn't ever have an army, to be super clear.
Everett probably only issued to the Swiss Army, never sold, never sold commercially, and probably fewer than a hundred of these things made.
Unknown If.
Everett But people know about them and it's one of these super rare watches that everyone's like, I gotta get one of those. So at just over a year after leaving Doxa in less than amicable, in a less than amicable fashion. Murky fashion. Murky fashion. Rick Murray announces that he's starting a new watch brand, and that their debut watch is going to be an homage to his old company.
Andrew Here's the question, and I think this is an important question to ask. Okay, yes, it's an homage to a Daxa. It's an homage to a Daxa that was produced by Synchron.
Everett To a synchronic doxa.
Andrew Is it an IP? Is it? Yeah. So is it an homage or is it a reissue and who has that IP?
Everett You know, it's a really good question.
Andrew Cause when you, when you buy a zombie, you get the IP.
Everett Yeah. It's a, it's a really good question. And I don't know the answer. My gut would be as, and I say, this is a lawyer who does not regularly practice IP law. and certainly not IPO on Switzerland. My gut would be that the Doxa brand and any watches released under the Doxa brand would go with the Doxa brand. However, if you see pictures of a late 70s Synchron Doxa Army, they say Doxa on the front and Synchron on the back. So who knows? It's a bit of a gray area. Also watch case design. a bit of a gray area. Also, watch dial design, a bit of a gray area. So, I think the question is, emotionally, spiritually, whatever, who has the right to make this? And Rick Murray obviously believed, believes, I should say. Probably, yeah, probably still holds. He does.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett And I'm not sure Doxa disagrees. However, I think either the next day, or perhaps the day that the Doxa military was announced. Rick Moray sends out, or excuse me, Doxa sends out an Instagram post wherein they post a picture of a Doxa military. I can't tell if this is a Doxa army. It looks to me like this is an old watch. And they say, the Doxa army is getting back. Stay tuned. As of now, please find an original picture of several executions back in the beginning of the 70s. They finished the post with this statement. Only the original deserves your trust. Which indicates to me that there was a disagreement about whether or not Rick Murray had the right to make this watch.
Andrew We're a year later, and this watch isn't yet to be made.
Everett Well, yeah, that's right. And, you know, to me, it looks like a sub 300 T with a PVD case and a funky dial. So if Daxu was going to make this, they certainly could have made this.
Andrew As I'm looking at it, the Synchron Military is still available for pre-order.
Everett And I think people have them. So they've already sold watches. They've already sold the Synchron Military. 900 bucks for that? 950?
Andrew I'm looking. Where is it? Doesn't matter. Yeah, it's neighborhood.
Everett It's in the 900 to 1000 range, I think.
Andrew Which is where you'd expect it to be.
Everett And I think that brings us current on the story of Doxa.
Andrew Oh, it's 1290 right now.
Everett Oh, 1290 on a bracelet.
Andrew No. Ouch.
Everett On a Tropic. An actual Tropic.
Andrew Branded Tropic, yeah.
Everett Owned by the actual Tropic zombie brand owned by the Synchron Group.
Andrew I don't know. I think Synchron has the same right to produce this watch that Doxa does.
Everett Yeah, well, clearly they have the legal right to produce it. You know, because there's a company like like whatever, uh, what's the name of the, I can never remember what the name of that company is. The, the, the Rolex homage brand that sells watches on no man, whatever. And my point being, it's not Steinhardt. It's a Steinhardt. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Steinhardt. So my point being, yeah, of course they can make the watch. They have the right to do it. Uh, yeah. I mean, it's an interesting thing that's happened here. Uh, and there's some, Maybe some chapped asses. Hard to say, but clearly at least some chapped asses. I actually, in researching for this episode, changed my mind about the validity of Synchron. Before today, before researching, so not completely today, but before researching for this episode, I felt a little bit dirty about Synchron. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't say I'm 180 degrees, but let's call it 167. 167 degree turn, turn around.
Andrew Let's just call it a good 169.
Everett Just 69 is a better number. Always. Always. Yeah. No, I mean, I kind of, I, yeah, I don't know if I feel bad for Rick Murray. I mean, the Yenny family probably, I assume, made him an extremely wealthy man.
Andrew And Synchron, I'm sure.
Everett Or gave him the opportunity to become an extremely wealthy man.
Andrew If nothing else, influential in the world of urology while Synchron was making him a wealthy man.
Everett They took a flyer on this guy, this crazy guy from, I think he's from California.
Andrew Who just showed up at their estate.
Everett And they're like, all right, whatever you want, buddy. Yeah, let's do this. And he's obviously made the Yenny family extremely wealthy. Which is sounds like they were already wealthy but Yeah, so I mean, I think I'm on I think I'm on team Rick Murray at this point I'm on team.
Andrew These watches are dope.
Everett These watches are dope.
Andrew The the legacy behind the Synchron military is Cool the legacy behind the Doxa army is cool Both watches I think have a place. Yeah
Everett And I want to take an opportunity here to chastise the people who chastise the zombie brands. Because one day you're a zombie brand, and one day you're a player making serious cool watches that you want to own and you want to have. So, it's just simply a matter of perspective.
Andrew Yeah, I mean, when you consider DOXA began 123 years ago and wasn't producing watches for 25 of them That's it's not that's a significant amount of time It's not all that significant against the amount of time that brand has been alive. Yeah It's significant for somebody who's you know between 30 and 40 years old who's only become reacquainted with it, but
Everett Yeah. You know, when we started in this journey, Andrew, and I mean, even before we started the show, 2015, Doxa had been revived at that point for 13 years, which was less than half of our lives. You know, here we are a few years later and now it's, now it's more than half my life. Uh, which I think changes in my mind. It's like when you hear like the dinosaurs are like T-Rex is more recent than the brontosaurus or whatever. I don't know.
Andrew Like, like more. Yeah. Like we lived closer to the T-Rex than something else.
Everett Yeah, no, I, it's like one of those things you have to kind of squint your eyes, but I guess all, all that to say again, uh, one day a zombie brand the next day, just a brand. Right. So, uh, yeah, it's all a matter of perspective.
Andrew Well, especially when you consider how many, how many brands died during the courts crisis. Yeah. Or came so close to death that they were, they were putting nails in the coffin.
Everett I guess all that to say I'm cool with the zombie brands.
Andrew I'm down with the zombie brands. Bring them back. I'm down with Synchron. Down with Synchron.
Everett I like the Synchron.
Andrew I'm down with Rick Murray. I also love the 300T.
Everett I think I want to go buy an Isofran and a Tropic just for shits and giggles. They're too expensive. They're too expensive. Those straps are too expensive, but I think I'm going to go buy them anyway, just because I think it's kind of a cool thing they're doing.
Andrew I'm going to buy a Doxa Military and a Sub 300. You can't buy a Doxa Military. No, a Synchron Military.
Everett You could buy a Doxa Army probably if you had more money than you had. No, I mean... The Doxa Armies, there was only ever a hundred of them made. They only ever come up every once in a while, and they're outrageously expensive. I could mortgage the house. You'd need a bigger house.
Andrew I mean, I get very down payment on the watch. Rare Doxa Army Dive Watch for sale. No trades. $8,500 on watch you seek. That's not that much money.
Everett That's not that much money.
Andrew That's super, like. That's in the range of affordable. I'd get in a lot of trouble, but I'd have one. God, I'd be in a lot of trouble, but this is.
Everett I helped a friend buy a Panerai 510 today.
Andrew Yeah, I know. I think I'm glad you talked about that Breitling knowing that he went 5'10".
Everett Andrew, other things.
Andrew What do you got, man? You know, my other thing is a little bit lame, but it's something I'm very excited about.
Everett Tell me more.
Andrew We talked about Yellowstone before, and I ripped through the first three seasons while it was available on Peacock.
Everett I just watched the fourth season.
Andrew They did this weird thing where you had to have a different streaming platform to stream season four.
Everett Paramount Plus.
Andrew You had to have Paramount Plus. Because it's a Paramount Plus show. It's a Paramount Plus show. I get that. But it was also streaming on Peacock. It wasn't streaming on the Paramount. On the Paramount Network. Platform. You could either watch it live or pay or DVR, you have that option, or pay for their streaming service to watch that. But on March 28th, season four drops on Peacock, which I already pay for, and I can't pay for any more streaming services, and I'm jacked. March 28th and 29th and 30th, I will, I'm gonna sit on my couch, I'm gonna bring a cooler to the couch filled with beer and Lunchables, and watch television.
Everett Is your other thing a show you haven't watched? It's season four. Would you like me to talk about it? Would you like me to talk about your other other thing because I've just watched it?
Andrew And if you talk about it, I will. I will cause injury. I will say this. It was really good. You know it was really good because the hang that you got and I bought episode one on Prime just because I needed a little fix. So I did watch episode one of season four.
Everett Okay. So what you know, the end of season three is nuts. Fucking bananas. And the nuts continues into episode one. Yeah. I would say the general tenor settles. It calms down a little bit. It's a little less crazy. The transition from four to five is going to be a bit more subdued.
Andrew I think it's because they realized they were working too hard.
Everett That was a big goddamn transition. It's one of the craziest end of season transitions that I can remember. I think I've said this on the show before.
Andrew It was like Game of Thrones level. You can accept that kind of craze in a fantasy series. It's hard in a drama, like in a not period or sci-fi drama, you know?
Everett The best finale in television, season finale, not series finale, the best season finale in the history of television is the season four finale of Breaking Bad. If you haven't seen it, you need to watch at least at least episode seasons one through four of Breaking Bad so that you can watch with fully informed. You can watch the end of season four of Breaking Bad. It is perhaps one of the greatest three seconds of television ever.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett I don't say that lightly.
Andrew It is. I don't know. There's a lot of Game of Thrones, three second periods that I liked a lot.
Everett It's incredible. If you, if you don't know what I'm talking about, if you know, you know, and if you don't know, you should, you should know, you should find out because it is, you have 40 hours to allocate to this. Oh my God.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett And I think that this is not at that level, but the end of season three, beginning of season four of Yellowstone is pretty crazy. It feels like that. So, and season four is good. It's a different, it's a little bit different tone.
Andrew Which is good because in, in season three, it was starting to get weird. They were starting to have to, they were, they were just fabricating drama for drama's sake. Yeah. It's like, there's enough drama already here. You, you don't really need as much as you're putting in. Listen, settle down. Yeah. Yeah. Reel it in a little bit. There's just no way that this many people are out to get you.
Everett Right. And they actually do, they wind up reeling some of that in. Yeah, they needed to. And also, Kim and I are now watching 1883. Yeah, you texted me about that.
Andrew I didn't understand your texts initially. Oh. You wrote, like, Toby Keith is bad. Not Toby Keith. Tim McGraw. Tim McGraw bad, Faith Hill okay, or something along those lines. I think you had said when you talked about this. I was surprised at how, I was surprised by their performances.
Everett I actually think Tim McGraw's a fairly awful actor. four or five episodes into this now. I think Faith Hill's okay. I actually think she's been better than okay. She's been good.
Andrew I'm just, I'm surprised at how well they're performing. It's not like, like you've seen Trace Adkins acting, right? You've seen those, those Westerns that Trace Adkins is in because he's such a big country star. And you're like, man, this guy's, this guy's terrible. You could, you could put animated Cartman in his place and I would be just as Convinced.
Everett I don't think Tim McGraw's a lot better. You made me think that there was going to be something better than it is.
Andrew I think Tim McGraw's head and shoulders better than Trace Adkins. I mean, if you haven't seen Trace Adkins in any movies or television shows, then pass on them.
Everett And if you haven't listened to Tim McGraw's everywhere, you should listen to it. That's also summer of 97 for me.
Andrew The rest of the cast, outside of Tim and Faith, are great, though. Great, yeah.
Everett Really good.
Andrew Faith was pretty good, too. I don't think they limited it. Okay. You must have another thing. I have another thing. Okay.
Everett I have another thing. I sent you the other thing. As I sit here right now, I can't remember what I sent you.
Andrew It's dinner rolls, fluffy dinner rolls, which makes me think that you're on keto again because you're like lusting after bread.
Everett No, no, I'm not on keto. Uh, no. So I have been making dinner rolls.
Andrew I don't have all access free for two weeks.
Everett I've been making dinner rolls. Um, and I've tried a handful of recipes. I think I've tried four or five different recipes at this point and I picked a winner. Out of the four or five, I've tried.
Andrew I've picked a winner and it's not close.
Everett It's not close. I have made, and dinner rolls are good, right? You make dinner rolls and it's like... long enough and they're made well and they rise and everything. They're good. And you know, it's, you use commercial yeast, right? So you're going to get a good rise. You're going to get, you know, as long as you basically do everything right, it's going to be fine and they're going to be delicious. One recipe has kicked the shit out of the others. Like the others were B minuses and this one was the A plus plus plus. Like the, I can't believe you did that. That was so good. Here's all the extra credit. Uh, and that is the cooks illustrated fluffy dinner roll.
Andrew Cause Test Kitchen is fucking phenomenal. You're not going to find better and like simple, easy, absolutely like knock your socks off, good recipes in Test Kitchen. They're the fucking best.
Everett It's the shit, man. So these are good. I think that a lot of the goodness comes in the way you prep them. And in fact, I don't think I got the recipe on cooks illustrated. I got the recipe somewhere else. Um, and when they described it, I was like, what? Well, I have no clue what you're telling me to do. And then I pulled up a YouTube video and it's really clear. Like, Oh, okay. I get it. But you have to like, you know you do a rise and then you knock it down you do another rise and then you knock it down and make it into a rectangle and you like have to cut it like the rectangle has to be the size and then you have to cut it into pieces and you have to take the pieces and you have to stretch them out and then you have to roll them and i was like like reading this i was like what the fuck are you talking about just watch the video watch the video pull the paper pull the recipe up and before you start watch the video super easy to make a little harder than the others to make, frankly. You do them in a round pan, they break apart, and oh my gosh, flaky, and because you roll them, they get like sort of a spiral layer.
Andrew Yeah, because you flatten them and then roll them up, like you just like spiral them, twist them together.
Everett Yep. Like a cinnamon roll, almost. Yeah. Dude.
Andrew That's how I do my French bread. Gets it really fluffy, but also dense all at the same time.
Everett So, so, so good and so much better than the reds. So, if you're in the mood to make a dinner roll, and you just should, right? Like, we make dinner rolls. We'll make them on Saturday morning and just eat them through the weekend. You know, I'll like have one with a meal and, you know, midnight stack, do a grilled peanut butter and jelly dinner roll. Almost anything you can do with a dinner roll. Yeah, it's a fun, like you make them Saturday morning with the kids. Betty and I have been making them together. And then you just nibble on them through the weekend. Yeah. If you're going to do it though, Cook's Illustrated. I think you like, if you go to Cook's Illustrated.com, you've got to like pay for it, but you can pull the YouTube video up for free.
Andrew They have a really good magazine. They do really good like kitchen gear reviews. And if you're not familiar with America's Test Kitchen, they're related. And Test Kitchen is I think it's one of their acquired brands, right? That's what they do. They, they test their recipes and they're like, Hey, we don't, we did this 95 different ways. This is the way we picked. And here's some pro tips that we learned on our 10,000 attempts at this single recipe.
Everett You know, America's Test Kitchen, a really good YouTube channel. Uh, and they do a lot of fun videos. I do understand that there was some, um, some tension in the, in the brand a while back, but I don't know. I don't care about all that. They make good, they make good material and that's their cookbooks are nice. Good content. Yeah.
Andrew I've got an America's test kit. Three ring spiral.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett Yeah. Good. Yeah. Good stuff. Simple, easy to do recipes. That's what they do. Like this is how you actually have to do this thing. Andrew, that's all I've got. Do you got anything else?
Andrew I'm a lot of things, man. I gotta go to bed. Yeah, you do. I had a long drive.
Everett Well, uh, Thanks for doing this for me on a Saturday night, right before you leave. I'll do anything for you. And thanks you for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20 of the WatchClicker podcast. You can check us out on Instagram at 40 in 20 at the WatchClicker, but also check us out on our website, WatchClicker.com. That's where we post every single episode of this podcast, but also weekly reviews, articles, some pretty good stuff on there. Just check it out, WatchClicker.com. If you want to support Watch clicker 40 and 20. You can do that at patreon.com slash 40 and 20. That's where we get all the support for the show, including hosting microphones, cords. We got to buy cords. Those are expensive.
Andrew We got rabbits. They chew right through them.
Everett Patreon.com slash 40 and 20. And don't forget to tune in next week for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Unknown Bye bye. Oh