Episode 172 - Interview with Sunflowerman, aka Matthew Miller
Published on Wed, 09 Feb 2022 20:13:21 -0800
Synopsis
In this episode, Andrew and Everett interview Matthew Miller, also known as Sunflower Man, an artist who specializes in paintings of watches and men's fashion. Matthew shares his background, including his artistic journey from a childhood love of drawing to attending art school and eventually becoming a professional artist. He discusses his unique painting process, which can take weeks to complete a single piece, and his passion for capturing the stories and emotions behind watches and clothing. The conversation covers a wide range of topics, from Matthew's obsession with espresso machines to his love of menswear and his experiences painting for events and collaborations with various watch brands.
Links
Transcript
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| Andrew | it's sweating and it's just glistening. Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 1420 The Watch Clicker podcast with your host, Andrew. I'm a good friend, Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, And there are things we like. Everett, how are you? |
| Everett | I'm doing really well, man. You know, so just, you know, we've been... I've been having the mental process at the beginning of every episode. I've gone... I'm a little faster on the pot right now. So I'm coming off of that intro music a little faster. So if you at home notice that and you have thoughts about it, you can give me your comments. Directly to Will. Yeah. I assume this is something that's pretty important to most of the people listening because it's like the only 30 seconds of the show that they probably listen to. So, you know, I don't know. It just matters that we get to listen. Yeah, it feels good though. It feels like this is right. |
| Andrew | I didn't notice. I'll be really honest with you. |
| Everett | Yeah. I'm doing good, man. How are you? Good. I made a good dinner tonight. |
| Andrew | Yeah, you did. I had like a good like last day of weekend, decided to kind of go a little bit balls to the wall cooking. Made a good dinner. I made a udon noodle soup and I made pork buns. Bowsa pork buns and it was terrific. Now I did buy a kimchi at the store today and I've had it before and I remember not liking it last time I had it. And when I had it again tonight, I remembered why. And it's the kind that's, it's in a, it's in a glass jar and it's got a green label on it. It's the mild one and it's sealed and it looks like it's ruptured because it's really tight in there. And it says actively fermenting, shake well and open over sink. And I remember that the reason I don't like it is because it's still actively fermenting. It's, it's like carbonated. which adds a really good tartness. But I'm gonna warn you, my burps are just next level horrible right now, and I'm sorry for that. But that's why I don't like it, because it's just... Drink a La Croix, just chug it and see what happens. And that's the same kind of chemical reaction that's happening in my stomach. |
| Everett | Sure, like a super fresh... What do they call that drink? |
| Andrew | Kombucha. Kombucha. It tastes really good. It tasted really good, but man, it's got... I'm having some phase two effects. |
| Everett | Yeah. You know, I had sushi tonight. I had sushi tonight. Pretty good sushi, but I also had some phase two effects happening. |
| Andrew | So the burps are just going to... This is going to be fresh, man. Fumigated in here. |
| Everett | Fresh. No, good. Good. Great. Yeah. I should open this beer because it looks good. This is a Stachydelicus. Yeah, Stache Delica. I gotta say, Hop Valley's really boring with the beer names. Hop Valley's always been really boring with their beer names. They have like 30 IPAs, and they're all like just some version of Cryo Hopped something Stache. |
| Andrew | Stache. Yeah. Stache Delica. They used to have the Double D Blonde. That was about their only exciting name, and they don't make that beer anymore. Yeah. The draft handle was really good, too, as you can guess what it looked like. It was boobs. Yeah. A pair of them. |
| Everett | Yeah. Uh, well, well, great, great. We're going to talk about watches tonight, sort of adjacent. Maybe we're not even talking. I mean, we will at some point talk about, oh, like some watches, several. Yeah. Uh, it turns out we're going to talk about rainbow Daytonas. I didn't know that was going to happen. I didn't see that coming either. Uh, I do realize now, uh, that we are going to talk about rainbow details. So we've got a special guest and this is a little bit of a, a, a different type of guest for us. We oftentimes have brand owners on the show. We occasionally have people who make various other watch-related things. I do believe this is the first painter. Yes. That we have ever had on the show. First painter. At least first professional painter, right? Second drawer, first painter. Yeah, because I bet like some of the people who've been on the show paint. |
| Andrew | Art of horology sketches. |
| Everett | Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. |
| Andrew | So they were artists. It's just a slightly different medium. |
| Everett | That's art. So we do have on the show Sunflower Man, a.k.a. Matthew Miller, artist extraordinaire, men's fashion artist, but also more more prudent to our purposes, a watch artist, Matthew. Hello. Welcome. How are you? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Hello. Hello, Everett. Thank you so much for having me. Everett and Andrew, uh, delightfully known as average. |
| Everett | Yeah. Uh, that's when you start listening to the show and you can't tell us apart. |
| Andrew | Yes. Basically your entire experience listening to the show. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Right. And I'm going to assume everyone's had the same experience I've had and they don't get to look at you like I am right now, which is honestly just relaxing. Is it? |
| Andrew | Is it really? It's because we're drinking beer. That's what it is. There's a nice lighting. You're not wearing pants. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | We're drinking beer. The whole thing. Well, I have an espresso that I just pulled, just pulled. I'm an I'm an espresso sipper. So I say just pulled, but it was within the last 15 minutes. And you're a guy, man. True, I am currently playing with the gadget classic pro. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | Yeah. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | And I've, I've modified it. I've added the PID so I can monitor the temp on my boiler. And I want to add a dimmer and I want to add the, the pressure modulator, but time, you know, just extra time. |
| Everett | And, and, and wires, like some of these espresso machine mods can be kind of intense. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. So I, I modded the machine. It's over five hours of my day, which that's, Those were my prime painting hours too. I was just so excited about making my own espresso and messing with all these wires. Finally got the PID put on, plug the machine in, turned it on, hit one of the buttons to kind of set my own settings on the PID and huge explosion, ball of lightning. And I'm like, Oh my God, I think I just destroyed the entire thing within five minutes of turning it on. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | That's exciting. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | I had never had to deal with any electrical anything in my studio. So it took me an hour to find the switches to be able to turn the wall back on. And I was terrified the entire time. Mostly I was terrified I was not gonna be able to have espresso that day. Turns out everything was fine. I just don't ever press the one button on the PID. I press everything else. |
| Andrew | So that button's off limits got like red tape over it or something though. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | No, everybody else is too scared to touch it. Cause it looks like, cause my wires are also, I'm not an electrician and anybody who comes to the studio can see that just so obviously these wires hanging out of the back of my machine. |
| Everett | Yeah. They're like, don't fuck with that. And for good reason, it sounds like, right. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | It's, it's like the skull and crossbow, you see it and you know, to stay away. So I'm not, I'm not worried about other people and I already know which button it is. So. Hopefully I don't forget. |
| Everett | You know, you guys, you guys are modders. I'm a, I'm a Breville guy. And, and we're the opposite, right? This is like Mac versus Linux. Like the gadget classic pro guys are little Linux guys. They're like, I need to get into the C plus plus Java language and to change the color. And I'm like, I'm going to push the, I'm going to push the two cups button. and then I'm going to push the other button on the right and I'm going to make sure I go 35 seconds and then I'm going to press the button again and I'm going to drink espresso. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. See, I'm a Mac guy and I think if you came into my studio and saw all the wires, you'd be like, yeah, this guy wants to be a Linux guy, but clearly could never actually do it. |
| Andrew | He tried and it's just not quite, not quite him. |
| Everett | So just for context, for you folks at home, I met Matthew at wind up in New York in October. I think that was, um, that was right. And Matthew, you were sitting at Jonathan Ferrer's table, the brew watches table, and you were actively engaged in a painting. You were doing a painting sort of live as it were like, like almost performance art, but also performance art by way of the creation of, of painted art performance art. Um, and I was like, I was kind of fascinated because like, at first I couldn't tell. I was like, is this just like, you know, it's New York, right? So it's like, is this like a hobo who's just sort of like walked in here? You weren't dressed like a hobo. Obviously you're a very fashionable guy. But I was like, what, like, what is this? |
| Andrew | And then it became a guy who was in the banquet hall. And then wind up started around him. He's like, I'm in the middle of this and I'll leave when I'm done. Thank you. |
| Everett | Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you, you were making this really cool painting and this painting can be seen. I think we put it on our Instagram at the time. Cause I was like, this is really cool. But we sat down and talked and, um, and I said, well, what are you doing tomorrow? We should get beers. And you were like, Oh, I can't get beers because I'm doing, I'm painting. There's an event with Swiss beats. a collaboration with Diva Thun and I'm going to, I'm probably mispronouncing that name, and I'm going to paint, I'm going to perform at this show with Swizz Beatz and paint this watch. |
| Andrew | But getting beers with you is a really close second. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. |
| Everett | And I was like, well, that sounds like you should fucking skip that shit. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | No, honestly, that's more my speed. I love, I love getting to be in that environment because it's not I don't, I don't go out to bars. I don't go out to clubs. I'm very boring and I just don't care. I would rather talk to people and have a conversation. And when there's so much music and lights flashing and it's dark, there's no, there's no real conversation to be had. So those are always fun. I get to show off. People are like, I love you, even though do that. I don't know, but I mean, I'm there and there. |
| Everett | No, I did. I was being serious when I said that. I see. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | I believe you have for it. Uh, but no, those, those night events are great. And it was awesome. I met Swiss beats. I, I met the people at day Bethune and, and watch boxes, a part of that as well. And so that, that was all fun. I really, uh, was obligated. So I couldn't go have a beer, which I would have loved to do. We'll make that happen. |
| Everett | Eventually you, you had a prior engagement, let's say. |
| Andrew | Yeah, probably an unforeseen prior engagement. |
| Everett | That came up after you asked. Even more so, a professional engagement. Because this is what you do for your living. You are an artist. A real-life professional artist. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. People are like, is that a plane? Is that a bird? And they're like, no. That's an artist. |
| Everett | So, known as Sunflower Man. And we should talk a little bit about the etymology. And it's an etymology when it's a name. Or is that just a word? Is there a separate ology for names? |
| Andrew | I think maybe the legend would be more appropriate here. The legacy, the heraldry of the name. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, that's good. |
| Everett | Heraldry, that's good. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | I love all of this, Andrew. I think you're spot on. Usually people say origin story and that fits with like, you know, the Batman origin story, the Spider-Man origin story. But I like the legend. |
| Everett | That's very nice. Well, origin story is at least partially apt here because Yes. The story of the sunflower man does involve a cape. Yes. It does involve a cape. So can you tell us a little? So I've said, hold on, I'm going to ask for some straight dish because I've read this story now a couple of times and it always feels like you sort of, you want to like not tell the, you just want to like skim over the actual story. But I, I think the actual story is maybe fun, but I don't know it because it does feel like you skim over it. So can you tell us what actually happened? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | I mean, I'll give you the the way I tell everyone, because at this point, I just kind of have it down. Yeah. And then if there's more to dig into, we can dig into it. I don't know if there is. I was I was a child. So I grew up in Michigan every year. I go to the summer camp this one year, 10 years old. You go to the summer camp and we have to do a skit one day. And you put your it's one of those things where you put your hand in a bag and pull it out. And whatever you see is what you utilize or That's kind of what we did. So I reached into the bag, I pulled out a shower curtain and I had to use this in a skit 10 years old. I love superheroes. So I take the shower curtain covered in sunflowers, drape it over my shoulders, tie it off. And I become sunflower man that day. Uh, and that's kind of the story. Now, if we want to go deeper, there's actually a much better, a much better deep seated, um, uh, heartbreak involved in this origin story. |
| Andrew | I have a couple of questions first, just about the camp. Is this an art camp? Is this just like a sleepaway camp? Like, is it like a Methodist? Is it like an all purpose camp? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | It's, it's going to be, it's going to be closer to a Methodist camp. So, uh, I grew up in what was in, in, I'm sure some of my family will be offended, but what was essentially a cult, uh, church of God, seventh day, which if you go back far enough, it was part of seventh day Venice, but they had split off. some decades earlier. And so Church of God seventh day. We went to church on Saturday. That's, that's the real seventh day for everyone out there. If you'd have to know. Yeah. And so yeah, that was the summer camp was seven days long. Seven. That sounds right. But yeah, so we were there. Honestly, some of the best memories of my childhood are going to this camp, sleeping out in the cabin, long walks up to the mess hall early in the morning, a nice chill breeze in the summer and then, you know, limited adult supervision. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | Yeah. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yes. Yeah. Live very limited. Yeah. That's, I mean, obviously that's the best part. You can go running through the woods, uh, one time. And this is, this is, uh, probably a, a trauma I have still that I'm living with, but I was in, cause we just had the port-a-potties. It was all these log cabins and you just had the port-a-potties out here. There's, they had the, What do you call? What did they call it? Up top? They had the latrine. That's it. So there was a latrine, but you know, that was like a half mile walk and play it at night. You don't want to do that. So just go out to the porta potties and probably the last night, the oldest campers usually pull pranks and whatnot. So I, I go in there and I really have to go. And then all of a sudden it starts shaking and I'm in there and like, this thing is shaking around me here and people are duct taping. So I don't remember how long I was in there. I remember screaming. I don't remember how old I was either. I was probably 18. Uh, I was a freaking counselor last summer. Uh, yeah, I remembered that. So, you know, limited supervision, you can get away with a lot. Yeah. I was eventually freed. Yeah. I mean, you're here now. |
| Andrew | I'm here now. Yeah. You got, you got out and he didn't get tipped over, which would have been far worse. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | That would have been a nightmare. Yes. It could be real trauma right now. It's just kind of like it was, it was a light trauma. |
| Andrew | We'll call it now discomfort in confined spaces, which is also a reasonable, you know, prudence to have. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Right. And as we were discussing before we recorded all of those doors that were left open everywhere I went, perhaps it's the real answer. |
| Everett | So Give us some background because you don't, I mean, you don't become a painter overnight, right? I mean, you're both, I think for many artists, you're both born an artist, but also you don't become an artist overnight. There's some decisions that have to be made and, you know, there's a process. |
| Andrew | So give us some of your background. And being Sunflower Man just doesn't pay the bills at some point. So. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Right, right. |
| Everett | Unless there's more to it than the shower curtain cape. There's probably got to be more to it. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | I mean, there's a lot. I mean, I'm Sunflower Man today. That's the brand. So it does pay the bills. Now it pays the bills. Yeah. Now it pays the bills. I mean, I tell everybody I was born with a pencil in my hand. So before I had memories, before I had real consciousness, that was in me. Like, I didn't make the choice initially to be interested in drawing. That was just there. from my entire family will tell you I've always been drawing. So that part just happened to me. And then at some point I decided I was going to be an artist. In high school, I actually, I really loved languages. I was going to go into linguistics. I mean, I'm trying to imagine the type of career I would have had as Sunflower Man with language. And I don't know if that would work. There's something there. |
| Andrew | But I was going to go into linguistics. Calligraphy is really pretty and people pay to do that. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | There's something that's true. That is true. I had an a plus plus plus once on a project in high school for calligraphy that I did for a poetry project. And, uh, yeah, that paid off really well, uh, bumped up that average for me. That'll do it. Yeah. That was a lot of plus triple plus. Yeah. I didn't know that was, uh, even a possibility. Yeah. I don't think, I don't actually think it is, you know, I'm going to say they weighed it. I'm saying, I'm going to say it was like a 6.0 as well. That's how I like to remember it. So it should be. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, cliffly would be cool. Linguistics is what I was going to go into in high school. Like I was on track to go to grand Valley state university and go into the linguistics department. And then I just had a moment where this is a deeper story. We don't have to get into, but I had a moment where I realized, no, I have to draw. That's who I am. Like that, is what gives me life and joy. I do it all the time in school. I was always drawing on the chalkboard or on the marker board before class, after class, whatever. It's how I made all of my friends. I would be like, Oh, I'm drawing over here. Does anybody see this? Does any, Oh, Oh, you did see that. That's how I made friends. I still, that's how I still make friends. Um, that's how, that's how we met. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, so that was, that's just always there. So I decided to go to Kendall college of art and design instead of Grand Valley state university. to get a career in illustration. So that's kind of the, the born to college time. |
| Andrew | Uh, yeah. And what's the goal? I mean, when you go into a school of art and design with a focus on illustration, where, where are you? Do you just, or do you not care what you're drawing? You just want to be drawing. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | I have, what's the goal? That's a great question. It's a question that should be, uh, asked far, far more often rather than what school are you going to? what goal are you trying to achieve? If I knew that I was supposed to achieve a goal when I went into college, things would have been very different. Oh yeah. No, yeah, I'm here. Yeah. Uh, so I have no idea what the goal is. Uh, yeah, for me just drawing was it. And nobody in my family ever went to college. So I was just proud that I was going to a university. Although art school is not really college. It's, it's, uh, It's basically a scam, but I have, I mean, that's a whole other, you got to graduate high school first to get there though. |
| Andrew | I mean, that's, that's college. That's, that's a huge, that's a big accomplishment just in and of itself. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Okay. That's a whole thing right there. I did great in high school. I was top five in my class. I mean, we were a class of 99, so that's not that high, but top five in my, my class. And I had like a 4.1 something or other, like I did great in high school. And then I went to college to an art school. where kids don't care about the school process. I was always done with my work and kids are like, Oh no, I haven't started yet. And teachers are like, Oh yeah, let's, let's, you know, postpone this project for another week. I'm like, why am I paying for this? I just did this for free for four years. |
| Everett | Yeah. No, you know, I went to law school and it's really similar. Uh, Matt, it's sort of the same thing actually. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | So you guys went to, you both are lawyers, right? Am I remembering this right? |
| Andrew | I'm not, I'm not smart enough. I got done with school and I could never go back. |
| Everett | He says, and that is a patent lie that he's not smart enough, but, uh, uh, yeah, no, it's sort of the same thing. It's like a scam, right? It's like, uh, and, and I learned a ton, obviously it just like you learn a lot in our art school. Uh, but you, you know, it is kind of what you make of it. Uh, yeah, you, you know, you said something interesting, which is, I think Andrew asked a question, which, which inspired the response, but what is the goal? I actually sort of where I sit now, like 40, 40 years old, I'm 40, I'm 40. You're there. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, at this point in my life, it's sort of like, I sort of wish I would have had fewer goals when I was getting my education. Right. Because I feel like, like my, my educational goals were actually a hindrance to me learning sometimes, like learning about the things that I would have really liked to learn about. Not always, but sometimes. |
| Andrew | Fair enough. My question was more designed at like, do you just want to draw? Do you not care like what you're drawing? You just want to be creating? Or if there was something in mind that you wanted to be creating, like if you wanted to be an animator or something, something of that ilk, or if it was just, you just had this creative overflow and that was your outlet and that you were eventually going to be able to get paid money to do it. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah, it's more of the latter. I really well early on, things have changed now that I've been doing it for a decade. But early on, it was just this is what I do all day anyway. I love it. I can't not do it. Let's let's move into an opportunity to make this my career. And illustration was just kind of the option that I was kind of funneled into. It made the most sense. And so, yeah, I just kind of did it because I knew I was going to draw anyway. Now, I'm at the point where I know what I want to draw, I know what I want to paint, and I get very bored very quickly working with clients who are asking things of me that I care not about. |
| Andrew | That tracks. So we're in art school. We're in, forgive me the name of the first art school. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Oh, yes. You should remember all of these syllables. Yeah. Kendall College of Art and Design. We've written it down now. We didn't. |
| Andrew | We didn't actually. I had pulled the tab up. I didn't. |
| Everett | OK, so we're in our link to Kendall College's admissions program. We'll be in the show notes. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | Yeah. |
| Andrew | We're there. What's what's happening next? Where where are you going? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Drop out and nice. OK, yes. So I grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Felt very sheltered and I was like, OK, let's move away, discover what life really is. And because I was living at my parents house still in college, even. Spending all of my time not at my parents' house, I was like, this is a much better experience. And so I decided to just move to Atlanta, go to Savannah College of Art and Design. It's a much better program, bigger, better reputation, better resources, better facilities, everything, just a tier above. And so I went there, met my wife, or at the time, my future wife, and I decided to drop out of Savannah College of Art and Design as well. because I could not square the round peg to the square goal, however you want to say it. It did not make any sense to me why I would pay money to keep going to school when I could just do the career anyway. So yeah, dropped out and just tried to figure it out from there. |
| Andrew | What did that look like? So now you're out on your own, you're out of school, you're obviously a talented illustrator and talented creator, because you've now gotten into two art schools and drop the mic on them. So I mean, there's something there like the sauce is there. What are you what are you working on now? Not currently, but now you're you're at a you're in Atlanta. And now what? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah, yeah. First, first off, art schools will take anybody. Not all art schools. You can go to RISD and maybe they won't take you, but they probably will. It doesn't really even matter. They want the money. So, art school is going to take anybody, especially the first two to four years. They'll take your money. |
| Andrew | The first two to four, oh my God. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | How long is art school? Like a doctor? Well, you can go four years. Yeah, and then you get your PhD or your master's or I guess master's is first. But yeah, you can go deep. |
| Everett | Again, law school, same thing, same thing. Yeah. Yes, law school, same way. |
| Andrew | You have to take it and do well on an LSAT though. |
| Everett | Yeah, I mean, you don't have to do that well. |
| Andrew | Continue. You're a good drawer. You're not in art school anymore. And you're in Atlanta, which is this significant cultural hub. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Atlanta is great. Atlanta is where I fell in love with coffee, which is now my main addiction. Second main addiction, drawing and then coffee. Yeah, that's where I fell in love with coffee. It's where I fell in love with fashion. It's where I fell in love with my wife. It's where I discovered that I didn't have to go to art school and I could pursue my own career. Art Atlanta. pivotal in the Sunflower Man story. It is interesting. It's like every other Southern state where you have to have a car to survive. You just have to. |
| Andrew | Yeah, because you can't be outside in the summer. You need a car just for the air conditioning. Never mind the distance, the air conditioning. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | I'm trying to remember how long this was. This must have been at least six months where I would drive from my home in Home Park all the way over to Buckhead, if anybody knows Atlanta, and everywhere in Atlanta is a minimum 30 minute drive. Doesn't matter where you're going to, where you're going. No AC in the summer, just rolling down the window, sitting in traffic, dying. |
| Andrew | Oh, that sounds miserable. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | It was terrible. Atlanta was it? Honestly, it was such a terrible time, but it was the best time of my life. There's value. |
| Andrew | Yeah, those transitional challenging times are really defining moments. |
| Everett | Yeah. And speaking, speaking of defining moments, at some point you'll get a call, you get a call from someone like a local haberdashery haberdashery owner, I think, or something to the effect. And they say, Hey, Matthew, we've seen your, we've seen your pictures. Why don't you come do some illustrations for us? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | So what was the car? And how did you feel? Oh, it felt great. So it was just this slow. I was doing some work at a nonprofit doing art with kids after after school. And that was good. That made me feel good about myself. There's there's a whole work life history in Atlanta, but that felt good. I was doing that. And then I was trying to make the art thing exist on the side. And then, yeah, I got that. I got this my first real gig from a company in Dallas. And before I knew that that DFW was really going to be an importance, uh, region in my life. And they were the first ones to hire me to do the first real gig. And it was all Adobe illustrator and it was their style sheet. So if you go and do a clothier and you want to get a suit made, they have the different types of lapels, the different types of cups, the different types of pockets. You can get a slanted pocket, a bezel pocket of a ticket pocket. Like you have all these different options. So I was creating the style guide so that they could check off the thing that clients wanted on their paper or on their iPad or PDF. |
| Everett | And this is a super 1960s device, right? This is not something that is used in modern clothes, but for kind of niche, this I said, I use the term haberdashery because that's the kind of place you're going to find this thing. But this is a kind of an old school thing that you're doing. |
| Andrew | Like very bespoke. It would make sense that they would hire you. Yeah. It just perfectly tracks. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yeah. It fit really well. And then that kind of brought me down this further niche of the suited world, the hashtag menswear era where I ended up connecting with a ton of suiting companies and hat makers. I'm not wearing a hat now because I've really grown my hair out and I'm doing this top bun thing and hats just aren't working as well. But I love Borsalino. I have some Stetsons, Dobbs. I have a couple of handmade hats, one from this guy called the Heart Hatter here in Dallas, Fort Worth. I love my hats. I have a great selection of some amazing hats, some shoes that I really love, some Spanish made, some Portuguese made. I don't have any English made shoes, but they're all just so expensive. I can never afford them. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | Yeah. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. |
| Everett | I'd love to have like a, I'd love to have like a pair of like HRH John Lobbs or something, you know, like, Oh yeah. Like something that's just stupid, you know, like three grand. |
| Andrew | Those are, I feel like I'd be scared to wear them. I would, I'd like have them on a shelf and I would really appreciate them, but I'm not sure I would wear them the first time that I fell, which is a thing that happens to me. And I like gouged the leather on the curb. I think I'd shit in my pants just like right then. And yeah, I know it's it's meant to be worn, but not not yet. Not for me. Yeah. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Well, when I think I have never had shoes that are made quite quite to that level. When I think about the shirts that I wear, the suits that I wear that are made for me, for my body, you can't go back. You really can't. The comfortability And so this, this is the off, off the, uh, rack jacket I'm wearing right now. |
| Everett | Yeah. That painting, I assume is not off the rack because it looks like you did it. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. So for, you know, the listening audience, I stood up and turned around and showed them my back, which could mean other things in different places. But I did a painting on the back of my jacket to show off that that's the only reason I'm wearing this off the rack suit jacket. It's cause I painted on it. Otherwise I needed. I need one that's made for me. Otherwise, I just can't exist anymore. |
| Andrew | What a problem to have. It's a terrible problem. Was that first client in a menswear store kind of also your gateway into this men's fashion world? Or was that already kind of a world you were existing in and were aware of? Or was that like, you just, you fell off the cliff and you're like, Oh wait, this all exists. And number one, it exists. Number two, it's amazing. And number three, shit. No, I'm in it. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yeah. All of that happened. So I kind of, the Tumblr era of hashing menswears were really my intro into that, that genre, the high end sort of men's lifestyle. So that, that job I got was early on in that stage. But that door had already been opened up for me. And then, you know, slowly more doors are opened up and I get deeper into that industry and get to know a lot of the people. They're great. I get to travel the world, which is awesome. But around the same time, and this is where I guess we can transition to watches, around the same time is when I discovered watches. So I'd never grew up. My dad maybe wore a suit on Saturdays to go to church. Maybe. |
| Andrew | Like Easter Saturday. What was that? Well, like Easter Saturday, like that was when he would wear one or like, it was just the occasional like celebrate Easter. |
| Everett | Um, yeah. Cause they're Adventist or you're not Adventist, not Adventist, but close enough, but close enough. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and, and I feel like I didn't, that was an unnecessary shaming of you, Andrew. No, we don't celebrate Easter, sir. Yeah, it doesn't really matter. No, no, it was just whenever my dad happens to be the one up front speak. Okay. On any given on any given Saturday. But otherwise, yeah, just I think maybe a polo is what he wore. Yeah, I never had access to tucked into light blue jeans. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Or khakis. Okay, nice. Okay. Yeah. dress ups. It's Saturday. |
| Andrew | So you get introduced to watches. What's the what's the first one? Because everyone's seen watches, everyone's familiar. What was the first watch that spoke to you? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Like, whoa, what's happening? I don't really know the first one that spoke to me. The first the first watch, I guess I started really getting into that I can remember is probably Panerai. And I feel like that was a door opener for a lot of people, especially like 10 years ago. |
| Andrew | It's a gateway drug for sure. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. So Panerai was really kind of like my way in. And not my way in. Panerai was kind of my first real obsession when it came to watches. My way in, and this is actually, I think, to the heart of why I care about watches at all, is the stories. What I did when I first really discovered watches, it's early days of Instagram. I'm seeing all these people sharing wrist shots, and I don't get it. I never owned a watch. Nobody in my family ever owned a watch. I didn't understand why people cared. And so I was like, it seems related to fashion. So let me do something about this. And I, I asked people to send us a photo of their favorite watch and a story about why they care. And so I painted a hundred watches in a hundred days and got a hundred stories about watches. So people who like I graduated and I got, my father gave it to me or my grandfather handed it down. for X reason or Y reason, or husbands and wives were gifting them instead of wedding rings. And people just have all of these emotional, familial, passionate stories of why they cared about watches. And that blew me away, not having any relation at all to them. And that was my gateway into the watch universe, is this passion. I just love the stories around things. I really like the magic of anything. It's part of why I like menswear. There's a magic to it, but that's what got me into watches. There's the engineering, there's the design, and then there's the fact that it belongs to somebody and it lives a life. All of that coming together. That's why I care about watches, uh, at all. |
| Everett | Well, and so at some point you, you now I'll say this, you now maintain kind of two separate brands. you've got your menswear, your fashion brand, and then you've got a separate watch brand. Was there a point where you took like a hard transition into watches or was it, was it what I imagined kind of like this, like organic thing where you started also professionally drawing watches? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Uh, I, they, they happened side by side. And I, when I first started getting into it, I thought it was adjacent to menswear. And it really is like, that's the perfect description. It's adjacent to menswear. The world's barely crossover. I mean, if you're going to Petit Uomo, you, Hodinkee now covers Petit Uomo, which they never did before, maybe the last two seasons. But the Italians, from what I understand, were some of the early vintage watch collectors back in like the seventies and eighties, they were collecting vintage watches. And that kind of started this vintage watch trend. And so when you go to Italy and you have all this style, they're all wearing these gorgeous vintage pieces. So it makes sense when you're at Pitti Uomo or when you're at Milan Fashion Week or just walking the streets in Rome, you'll see these cool Italian guys in their fantastic suits, wearing an amazing watch, probably some brown suede loafers. And it's just it just looks awesome. But that's about the majority of the crossover. Otherwise, different universes. Talking to you guys, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this. Do you see a crossover of that menswear? Like we were talking about the hats, the suits, the shoes, and watches. |
| Andrew | Do you guys see that? I think there can be crossover. I think what makes, to me, watches unique is that you can wear an OP in that very high fashion, very everything bespoke environment, and you can wear it in cargo shorts. Right. You can't wear, well you can wear high fashion in cargo shorts, but the cargo maybe is an ironic statement. But I think watches kind of stand alone in that it's not an accessory, but it definitely is an accessory that can stand on its own. And I think that's maybe where the overlap is, is it can be used as an accessory, but it isn't necessarily an accessory. |
| Everett | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a really interesting idea. It was something we talk about on the show pretty frequently in, in different respects, but you know, there's this crossover between there's this crossover between watches and any number of sort of hobbies, and I tend to think of them as masculine hobbies, but I don't know that that's fair or even appropriate to say. But, you know, these hobbies that are, you know, EDC, you know, the everyday carry sort of community, the, you know, be that knives or watches or flashlights, you know, there's some crossover with like the mechanical keyboard community, which I'm sort of learning about right now. There's crossover into, you know, like boots, like some people are into boots, right? Like, like, like handmade boots and, um, you know, in that, in that same way, there's crossover into, into men's fashion. I think that those things are all sort of similar, at least say in 2022, they're all similar in that very few people need those things in their lives. Um, You know, there's almost, there's almost no professions in the United States remaining where you need to wear a suit. You know, there are, you know, obviously like city law firms, big city law firms, big city banking jobs or investing jobs, you know, be that London, New York, Washington, DC, but even in like. Mormon missionaries. Yeah. Even in like San Francisco, Los Angeles, Portland, Seattle, you know, the West coast, big, big cities, you know, there are very few professions at all. You know, as a, as a professional attorney from Portland, who's worked in Seattle as well, you know, I'd argue I wear a suit more than you do. You do, you almost certainly do. Right. And so it's, you know, especially as you get into like more progressive cities, like nobody wears a suit. So the, the idea that you'd wear a suit in this pragmatic way is, is almost extinct. Not quite. I won't say there are not places where that's still important, but it is all, you know, be it watches or knives or suits sort of Kabuki at this point, which is, which is only to say, you know, It's these anachronistic hobbies that are mainly propped up by people who think it's cool. Because it is cool. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's right, Andrew. It is cool. |
| Andrew | No, I agree a hundred percent. I would be down with every stitch of clothing I owned being a bespoke suit. Yeah. It's just it's not really practical for the fact that I get thrown up on still. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Look, get a bespoke bib that you can wear. |
| Everett | Yeah, like a super 120s worsted wool. |
| Andrew | Yeah, there's something there. Pounds too. That's right. There's something there. |
| Everett | Maybe a nice hopsack. Oh, very nice. A little bit more durable. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Okay. |
| Everett | Yeah. Yeah. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yeah. How do you make sure it can last X number of years, the number of years you need it. And you got to be able to wash it. |
| Andrew | And then pass down. You got to be able to like grubby wash it, like actually scrub it. This is an heirloom. Yeah. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Well, it's bespoke. And you want it to be heirloom. That's right. You see this stain? This stain happened when? |
| Andrew | This is from your great, great grandfather. So go ahead, Andrew. Well, so, so now we're, we're, we're into watches and you're, you'd a hundred watches, a hundred days. And you glossed over that. And, and I think we have to gloss over it for the sake of time, but that's a really fascinating project that I think might even deserve in its own episode. Um, So now you're painting and you're drawing watches. Is this as a hobby? Once you're done with your hundred, how are you choosing your watches? Are you being commissioned to do these? Are you just finding a watch that inspires you? Because you're also still in your kind of like, are you in your like beginning of your own watch journey? Is this as watch painting is occurring kind of in parallel? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yeah. I would say I'm still a decade and I'm still very much an amateur. Uh, and that's because most of my focus has been on, on the menswear side for so long that watches have been just, okay, here's another project that popped up one or two this year. And I can, I can bring back all of my, my memories and relationships. And I'm learning about this new watch or this new company or a new aspect of watches. I didn't know about before. So it's been a slow growth and progression for me. And since there have been so few people over the last decade, so there are a ton now, but over the last decade, there were very few people painting or drawing watches. Yeah. Uh, my name would pop up over and over again for people who are looking for that sort of work to be done. They're like, Oh, I, this guy, a couple of years ago, we ran across him. He does watch it. So people would reach out or old, old clients who moved on to new positions. Like, Oh, we, I love what we did before. Let's do it with this company or this project. So things would just progress until the last two years. |
| Andrew | Are you doing like commercial projects at that point, or are you doing any commission for individuals for the most part? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | That was mostly commercial work. I mean, the thrust of my career has been B2B mostly. The last two years, in a lot of ways, switched to a lot of B2C, but B2B is still the big one. Yeah. |
| Everett | You know, when you, I guess, As far as, you know, drawing watches goes, you've got just a ton of subject matter that you can choose from if you're in control of what you're drawing, right? So, obviously, a certain amount of your stuff is contract work, right? So, if Dave Bethune hires you to come paint their watch, you're really limited to that watch. How much do you find yourself painting watches because you're like, this is a neat watch and I want to paint it, or I'm, I love this watch. How, you know, what, what's the, what's the Delta of, or the ratio of, of sunflower man, Matt, Matthew Miller paintings versus contract work. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah, well, especially with watches. And again, the last two years have changed a lot and we haven't really discussed it, but I brought it up a few times the last two years. Uh, things have changed. So my paintings have slowed way down. I've developed a whole process. That's a sunflower man process. And these paintings, the, the rainbow, you saw me drag across the screen, uh, at the beginning that was. |
| Everett | Yeah. So, so, so not to interrupt you, but to interrupt you when we do our intro, when you, when you listen to us coming in on this show, there's this moment where we both like almost can't talk because we're laughing. And that is because I think he didn't do it on purpose. It seemed to me like it was a little bit. |
| Andrew | It seemed totally innocuous. Yeah, there was no intentionality there. |
| Everett | Literally, all we can see on the computer screen in front of us is this bobbing, giant, full size canvas of a rainbow Daytona watercolor painting. you know, on our computer screen. |
| Andrew | And we, and as if the rainbow Daytona isn't big enough, this one is actually torso to shoulder. It's just the, the, the rainbow just kind of like bobbed in and we're like, you'd been gone and we figured you're going to pee or something. And then rainbow Daytona shows up before you do like, this is, this is what's happening right now. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. It was very serendipitous, not intentional, but perfection. |
| Andrew | Indeed. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | So the last two years hit us. Yeah. Yeah, I've developed this process that I'm now spending two to six weeks per watch painting, which leaves very little time for self-exploration. Yeah. So when somebody comes and commissions me, I did three, three Elang and Sunil case backs, a triple split. Oh man, this was not even that long ago. I can't remember what I did. Anyway, three of them. One took four weeks, the other two each took six weeks to complete. And wow, they just, I mean, that's, that's a lot of time to do three paintings for me when traditionally I would do one, two, three, four, five a day. When I was doing menswear, I would just knock these out. Uh, most of them just having fun. I'm experimenting. And then the watches I would do one a day. These are from, uh, old Basel world. 2017, I guess. |
| Everett | Yeah. And so you guys are going to be able to see this boat. This is the, this is like an eight by 10. That was a sea master, uh, panoramic or, Oh, you'll, you'll like this one. That's a, that's a brew. Yeah, it is. That's a, uh, an OG brew the 43 millimeter another brew. Yeah. With, with an interesting, with an interesting bracelet on that copper dial. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Um, So that was just like a quick, a quick rundown. I have a whole stack of these. |
| Andrew | And those are one a day. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | You said those are one of the days. Yeah. I could do a couple of those in a day if I wanted to. And so that's what I was always doing. Just kind of quick sketches. Now my process is, is laborious, but fantastic. They're more beautiful than ever. And now they're doing a lot more personal, like for, for private clients as well. And I almost never can talk about them. I can kind of share, but I can never talk about where it's going or to whom. And that's been a big change. |
| Andrew | Yeah, right. Which was which was the higher stress when you're painting for an individual or for a business? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Depends on the context. Okay, really? Individuals can be higher stress. |
| Andrew | It depends on just the client. It's very client. Yeah. |
| Everett | Okay. You know, I was gonna ask you about this. Because when When you go, like for instance, when you go to your sunflower watches, your watch Instagram, and you scroll through, there's this like really sort of transparent development, right? So your first handful of paintings are these relatively small paintings painted on book pages. Yeah. And they're They're hasty. I wouldn't say that they're sloppy, but they're faster drawings, you know, literally broad brush in some cases. And then there's these transition points, right, where you can clearly identify a change in technique, you know. So these early paintings oftentimes just watercolor and then or maybe like inked watercolor and then You know, you get heavier in the inks at some point and then you add gouaches. And so there's these, I don't know if it's mixed media is the right phrase, but you know, you know, most recent, like you've got a handful of FP jorns and the longest that you've posted recently are like, you know, these really sort of heavily saturated backgrounds. I guess the question I'm talking and not asking a question, I guess the question is, you know, are you, I mean, obviously you're developing in terms of technique. Are you, um, enjoying this process? Is this something that is, uh, satisfying? Do you feel like you're developing as an artist and, and where do you go from there? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yeah. These, these are the existential questions that I try never to ask myself. Do I, do I like my work? Am I happy with life? Let's stay away from those questions and just stick with the like, I'm obsessed and I have to keep doing it. Otherwise, I'll tell him. |
| Andrew | Are those are those functions of getting better as an artist? Or are they functions of getting more connected to the subject material that you want to better portray it like that? You just feel more connected to your subject that you want to portray it in a different way. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Both. Both. I think those are both great angles for approaching it, and both are true. On one hand, I'm getting to know watches much more intimately, especially since I'm doing them more. I'm really getting into those details. And each watch has a different story sometimes than I'm expecting, and that's always fun, and that helps me develop a richer painting. but also the more I paint with watercolors, the more I get into inks, the more I understand those mediums more intimately. And I can, I can do infinitely more with just a quick gesture of the brush than I could do three or four years ago. Uh, so it's, it's a hundred percent, both things in line with each other. |
| Andrew | And I gotta, how are you viewing when you're doing like a case back when you're doing a movement, how are you, capturing that detail? Are you are you just are you taking an image of this and blowing it up? Are you viewing it under a loop? Because the detail that you are capturing in every single component of that case back is 20 times magnification, perhaps. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's to the to the actual subject that you're painting. What are you? How are you capturing that? Because that's that's truly impressive to be able to capture that tiny, you know, millimeters of detail in 20X. |
| Everett | And so just for you at home, we're looking right now, Andrew and I are looking at sunflowerman.watch on Instagram, where there's a ton of these just amazing photos. We're looking at this most recent long triple split that you mentioned earlier. It's a case back photo, which is you know, arguably the most impressive side of this watch. Uh, although the fronts, uh, you wouldn't take the dial out of bed either. Right. Um, and so, right. I, what it, I totally am tracking what Andrew is saying, right. It's not just, it's not just the detail or the proportion, which I think is impeccable. It's this whole, like this is paint and it is so alive in a way. Um, that's totally different than your first, if you scroll all the way down to the bottom, your very first paintings on these book pages, also alive, you know, in a totally different way. It's crazy. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Let's make a deal where we do this conversation again, but you guys are here at my studio because we, I love the way you're asking questions and analyzing the process and the work. And I would love to have those questions again, at some point when I can say, Look right here at how this how what's happening here. And here are my references. |
| Everett | And maybe we could get the microphones and just like have a bottle of Cuddy or something. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Look, I'm down with that, too. That's totally awesome. We'll make a deal. You guys come down to Fort Worth at some point because I can take you through. And honestly, it would take hours so we can analyze the references, the paper, the the processes. I love these questions. I don't know how to answer all of them. Well, we hit with a lot of questions. |
| Andrew | What was that? We hit with the hard questions. |
| Everett | You know, I've got the existential questions first. I've got, I've got, I think, one more paint question that I'm going to ask you because I've got, you know, I'm really curious about your process. You said in an interview a couple of years back that you gave a quote right at the end of this interview about painting the human body, the human form. And that quote kind of struck me because it was this really sort of heartfelt quote. And it's interesting because your men's fashion paintings are people. They're human beings. And your watches are clearly not. Have you found an analog in watches or was it always there where you were able to to tap into this expression of form or function in a way that feels the same way as the human body? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Uh, yeah. I mean, what, one of the quick ways to kind of describe the connection is when I'm doing a watch painting, often I'm doing a watch portrait. Uh, and whenever I'm doing a painting of the clothing, it's typically also expressing a person and a portrait of a person. Uh, so most of the time, both are portraits. And in that way, I like to see that I'm, I'm digging into the deeper story of the object or the person, uh, for me, fashion tells such a deep story. So much of the time, when you meet people who are making clothing, when you meet people who are invested, I've, I've one really good friend here in Fort worth, who he works at the man shop here. And it was technically Arlington, but, uh, in Fort worth. And he is, he is in that lifestyle, but there's so much nuance in his story, and I love that. And to paint the clothing is to tell the story of his life. And when I get to the watch, when I'm focusing on the different movements, I don't, for one, I don't like when people say that looks like a photograph, because I don't try to represent a photograph. I try to represent an emotion or a story. And when you get into the painting, you get up close, you can see the brushwork, even on these detail pieces. you get up close and you're like, Oh, that's obviously not a photograph. There's a thick brushstroke there. There's a texture here that aren't literal, but they help describe the story of what's happening. Um, but that, that's the idea. I want to get into the emotion of, of the object or the person. |
| Andrew | Do you wear these watches that you, that you do portraits of to, to, connect to them? I mean, do you feel more connected to a watch when you're working on that portrait of it after wearing it or because you're wearing it? |
| Everett | I mean, blink two times for, yes, I do, but I'm not supposed to admit it. Yeah. |
| Andrew | Yeah. Yeah. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | There were three blinks, so he doesn't wear those watches. I occasionally get to wear these watches, and whenever I do, I'm actually terrified. Mostly because I could never pay off the debt if I ruin them. Yeah. You just run. You just flee to Mexico. There's a great market. And safety. But sometimes I get to access them. And these are transcendent moments because I'm faced with the reality of something I've just dreamed about. Not just dreamed about, that I've obsessed over for weeks at a time. trying to define in my own 2D terms. And I get to see it with the light reflecting off the metals. And it really, those are transcendent moments for me, but it's too rare that I get to see the watches I paint. Partly because to make a career out of this, I really do have to paint watches that are, or the paintings are fairly inaccessible to most people because of the cost and time and money. Like I just, I have to sell them for a lot. Cause they take forever, uh, which necessitates people who have the funds. And those are people who are likely buying the really expensive watches. Thus, I rarely have access to the real thing. |
| Everett | This is the entire story of watch media, by the way. Yeah. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | Right. Yes. |
| Everett | Which is why, which is why we're a volunteer podcast and website. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yes. Uh, yes. You can feel my pain. Like I, if only I could, if only I could just have that watch, but I mean, I get cases like, uh, Here we are. |
| Everett | Yeah, we know that watch. That's a Brumetric and it looks... There we go. So what are your favorite watches? Your personal favorite watches? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | My personal favorite watches obviously have changed over time. I know that's the same for everyone. Right now, I am in love with the F.P. Journe Resonance, something I will never get to own, but I love the story. I have a whole series and you Actually, that's the painting I saw with the dragon on it is the resonance. So I have a whole series of like. 15 paintings over here of the residents that are all partly done. None of them are finished and I just I like this this idea of the two movements that are just so close in proximity that they're keeping each other in line. This this shared space where two things are just. Moving. beating at the same rate. If one gets jostled, the other brings it back in line. I love this idea. And just tracing the history back. So I was trying to get to know more about the watch. So you eventually learned that Breguet did the pocket watch resonance. And this was at a time when one of the King Louie's was raining. I don't know which one in Paris. I mean, there were so many. So one of them. actually owned one of these Breguet Resonance watches. But at the same time, Ingress, and I always forget the full French name, but Ingress was a famous French painter. He painted Roger Delivering Angelica, which is a version of, and some people are going to hate what I have to say here, but it's a version of Saint George and the Dragon. One of Ingress's paintings was owned by King Louis, the same King Louis who owned the Breguet Resonance. who also, this painting was actually in the Louvre, but there were two St. George and the Dragons painted by Raphael back in the 1400s, so hundreds of years before the Resonance. But that painting was the direct inspiration for the Ingress painting of Roger delivering Angelica. I know we're getting in the weeds and hopefully nobody's too bored because I'm really into this. So the Resonance and St. George and the Dragon are living this parallel life of traveling through Paris at the same time, being owned by the same king, and going on this journey of inspiring F.P. Journe to create the first Resonance wristwatch, which then was handed off to me. Not the actual watch. |
| Andrew | It's in the studio right now. It's not even framed. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yeah. My Resonance, they're just lying around. Uh, but yeah, so now I'm, now I'm just kind of on this obsession with the idea of the resonance and its relation back to St. George and the dragon. And I'm merging those two universes that are 500, 600 years apart. That's awesome. |
| Andrew | Transcendent. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Transcendent. |
| Andrew | There we go. What about Obtanium watches? Watches that you, that exist in reality with the rest of us? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. And I I'm completely biased, but I love brew watches. Jonathan, I'm reasonable, very reasonable. I've known Jonathan for probably seven years. So ever since he started a brew watches and we connected over espresso naturally. And so I've been, I've been there as he developed the first brew. I have one of the original brews. I have the, the HP one, which I love. one of his second or third iteration. I have a retrograph. I now have the metric chronograph as well. And I, I use this to make my espresso probably three times a day. So I'm using that chronograph hitting right around 25. Oh yeah. Oh, it's, this is, this is living a life. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | Yeah. |
| Everett | It's amazing. Well, I also have a hand art, but it also great watches. Yeah. You know, the Hanhart watches, I think, fantastic history on those watches, A, which I think a lot of people don't know, and B, just in terms of, like, visually interesting watches. You know, they have, like, little pops of color. They've got those really interesting bezels. Yeah, super cool watch. |
| Andrew | Exactly the watches that I would think you would be into. Yeah. Very visually stimulating. Very cool. Yeah. That tracks. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. And both helped me make my espresso. |
| Everett | So still Matthew, anything else about watches? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | You want to say anything else about watches that I want to say? Uh, I don't know. I don't know if I have a lot to say about watches. I love the, I love the stories of watches. That's what interests me the most. Um, so that's part of why I love brew watches so much. Jonathan is, an amazing person, a great designer. He loves espresso. So naturally, he's a good person. I don't know. So when you get to know people like that, and then then you can get their watches, too. That's just a great, great story there. So not just the story of the watch itself, but to get to know somebody in their time while they're making it. Yeah. |
| Andrew | The complete package, as it were. There we go. Yeah. Which Jonathan for sure is. |
| Everett | Before we transition, we owe Sunflower Man an apology. |
| Andrew | Yeah, we do. |
| Everett | And I'll tell you why. I don't know why. I can't tell. I'm looking at his face. I can't tell if he knows why. He looks like he is not surprised. A few weeks ago on the show, neither one of us was thinking about it, but we had I don't know, it wasn't a segment, it wasn't planned, but we had a little bit of a devolution of conversation where we inexplicably, I would say, trashed on the given name Matt. |
| Andrew | Did we? We did. |
| Everett | Man, I have no memory of this. Who's named Matt? You know, Matt, like what a terrible name. |
| Andrew | I think you did that. I have no memory of this. |
| Everett | Was I doing it? Did I pile on? And so we said this without any intention. And our friend Matt, Matt Miller, Matthew Miller, wrote us to lodge a complaint. |
| Andrew | It went right to daddy too. Will really spanked us. |
| Everett | And so for Matthew Miller, here with us today, and all the Matts in the world, including all of our very good friends who are Matts, we apologize. Matt is a above average name, I'd say. It's a it's a very good name even. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | In terms of volume, definitely a puff average. Yeah. |
| Everett | So to all the mats we offended. |
| Andrew | It's got most of the vowels, para letters. |
| Everett | You know what you call a guy with no arms and no legs on the porch? So moving along. Did you look that up just for this, Andrew? things. What do you got? |
| Andrew | I'm just enjoying the slow burn of that joke, because we didn't land the punch line that makes that's what the best part you get to the punch line on your own. So my other thing I made these bowser tonight and they were terrific. And I've made a good variety of dumplings in my time. Some leavened, some unleavened. I've worked off of recipes, I've tweaked some recipes. This pork bun bowser recipe came from a place called Recipe Tin eats. And it is the Chinese steamed pork buns recipe. I'll read you their synopsis. Pillowy soft steamed buns filled with a sweet savory saucy pork filling. Homemade. Can't concur by the way. Homemade Chinese pork buns are truly just like the ones you swipe off the dim sum trolleys. These will blow your mind. Now I didn't make the filling that they recommended. I made my own. I wanted a good dough recipe, because that's kind of where I find my weaknesses is in making doughs, because those are much more scientific process than cooking, and I'm a fairly adequate cook. |
| Everett | I can mix... Literally chemistry. |
| Andrew | Yeah. I can mix flavors. I can blend flavors. I can do things, but when it comes to doughs and baking, I'm weak in my free handing, because you shouldn't free hand chemistry. That's just science, right? Like you just shouldn't do that shit. Science. I find a lot of my trial and error comes with finding good dough recipes, and some places have good dough recipes, and some places don't have good dough recipes. I'm still trying to find the right pizza dough recipe, because that's a hard one to find, and I've tried hundreds of pizza dough recipes. I've free-handed, like, 50 of them, and it's just not, it just doesn't work. So, this balsa dough recipe, I will say, my wife agrees, I have written how it concurs, is money. It is the right... Now, you're also going to have to have some technique in your rolling out of your dumplings and in your sealing of your dumplings. The thing that I thought was weird was the amount of cornstarch. Cornstarch is usually like, for me, like a tablespoon of something made into a slurry to thicken something else. This recipe used like two to one flour to cornstarch. Whatever. And a bucket load of sugar. Four tablespoons of sugar to two cups of flour. |
| Everett | Lots of food for the yeast. |
| Andrew | Yeah, but it's it. Yeah. So if you're interested in trying out making pork buns at your house, which are a delicious snack, they're a delicious meal, this is the dough recipe that's going to be my go-to. It's |
| Everett | china or uh recipe tin eats it'll the link will be in the show notes this is a killer dough recipe sick fill it with what you want use this dough recipe yeah great and it's a live yeast you're using a yeast packet or yeah yeah yeah um i like yeast packets because you get a fast dough um but fastos are a little tricky right you they can't be yeah yeah |
| Andrew | And you got to make sure it's fresh. You can't, but don't buy the brick of yeast. If you're, if you're newish to baking and you don't bake a lot, don't buy the brick because the yeast needs to be activated. It's a living organism. And for those of you who brew or who make wine or do any kind of fermentation science, yeast is a living organism and it will just die if you leave it in that brick and you don't use it. You can't, you can't open your brick and use it over the course of a year. If you don't use that much live yeast for baking, get the packets. That's the right way to go. |
| Everett | The bricks are for people making several loaves of dough every every day. |
| Andrew | Yeah, yeah, that yeast will die and you will not be able to revive it. Use 110 degree water. Yeah, sugar. Let it let it activate and let it warm up. Give it plenty of food. Let it rise. Yeast is a very delicate creature and you need to treat it as such and it will reward you. |
| Everett | Hey, I've got another thing do me and it doesn't involve science. How tracks So I started a show this week, you know, weird as we do, as we do, as we do. This is a spinoff of, this is a spinoff of a DC show that came out last year called The Suicide Squad. Spinoff of a show? It's a spinoff of a movie called The Suicide Squad. One of the surprise, so Suicide Squad, obviously Harley Quinn, um, I think one of the surprise... The remake was way better than the original. The remake was better than the original. And there's some argument about whether they're in the same or perhaps different universes. And maybe there's an answer. But in any event, the remake was very good. But one of the surprise joys of that show was the character played by John Cena. The weasel? The weasel was the shit. The peacemaker. The Peacemaker. So John Cena plays this. I mean, you know, it's almost like a character that was written for him. If John Cena was this, like, really sort of oblivious, terrible human being, I don't know. He may be. This may just be his personality. |
| Andrew | It might be a joke on John Cena when he doesn't know. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | HBO Max. |
| Everett | HBO Max. Kim and I started this show this week. And I think we're three episodes in, and I think that there are six or seven episodes available. So it's at the point where you can start binging. |
| Andrew | That's a bingeable amount. Yeah, that's there. I imagine it's HBO Max. I imagine they're hour long episodes. |
| Everett | Uh, not quite. I don't think they're quite that long. Um, but it is hull larious. It's hilarious. It is really, really, really good. The cast is great. Not a lot of people that you're going to be super familiar with, but some that you are. |
| Andrew | But some recognition. |
| Everett | Absolutely. Probably most famously Danielle Brooks from Orange is the New Black. Fantastic cast and the writing is terrific. Totally terrific writing. It's funny. It's surprisingly funny. John Cena's character, the peacemaker is both deplorable and also incredibly lovable. |
| Andrew | I think it's fair to say at this point, um, it's like the dumber version of the, the bad superhero in, uh, uh, Oh shoot. The superhero show from prime the boys, the boys. |
| Everett | Yeah. Yeah. He's dumb. He's dumb, but also not stupid. And yeah, It's been really, really clever so far. And even Kim, who's sort of a little bit not quite as into crude humor, has been really enjoying it. So I would say check Peacemaker out. It's got Kim Sinoff. Kim Sinoff. It's got Kim Sinoff. Surprisingly hilarious. Also, like, pink mist and boobs. So, yes. Yeah, right? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | It's got everything. |
| Everett | It's got it all. All the things that I want. It's got it all. And emotion. Some strong human emotion. John Cena crying naked on a bed. |
| Andrew | That's all you needed to tell me. |
| Everett | Matthew, you got really close to the camera when I said that. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Tell me more, John Cena. |
| Everett | What? Matthew, other things. What do you got? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | What do I have? So the Olympics are on. They are. And yes, they are. I'm not a big Winter Olympics fan who just don't care all that much. Right. |
| Andrew | I prefer them. But I'm getting into curling curling. Yep. OK. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. The mixed doubles. Oh my God. So stressful. Oh man. Italy just won gold. Their first medal ever in curling at any level. Unprecedented. Just one gold. Yeah. They went to know. Yeah. the mix, the mixed doubles, which apparently is different than the regular men's team or the regular women's team. |
| Andrew | It's new and they have different rules. Yeah. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. But very suspenseful. You just, oh man, I've, I've been the last three nights. I'm actually was going to come into the studio and finish this painting that I brought by the rainbow. Um, and I was like, nah, I think I'm going to watch the end of this curling match because I just can't, I can't not watch. |
| Andrew | You're telling me you grew up in, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Yeah. And you're just now becoming familiar with curling. Isn't that where like all the American curlers are from? Grand Rapids? That would be amazing. Or the Great White North, at least, like Michigan and Wisconsin. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. If you want to get into this. Yeah. The UP, the UP, the North Dakota, Wisconsin. Once you get over there. over a bit west of Lake Michigan and then north of Lake Superior, then. Then or not, it gets weird here, but right. |
| Andrew | They start pushing rocks around on the ice for fun with a broom. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah, that's apparently it started in Scotland that tracks curling. Yeah. And the eighteen hundreds. |
| Andrew | Yep. That tracks. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. Yeah. So I just got into it. I can't snowboard. I can't ski. I've never been ice fishing. |
| Andrew | Yes, I what you grew up in Michigan. You remember an ice fishing, huh? Every time every winter olympics comes around, I always look up curling leagues or like recreational curling opportunities near me. There's a bucket loads up there. I'm sure there's some in the DFW area. There are not so many near us like none. No Oregon. We don't do that. There is ice fishing opportunities here, but there are not many. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah, but you're not that far from ice. Just do a jaunt up to Vancouver, right? |
| Andrew | Yeah, that's a pretty long jaunt. I mean, Oregon's no Texas, but it's pretty vast over here, too. |
| Everett | Yeah. That's true. Yeah. I mean, people don't realize the distance Like people think like, oh, Portland and Seattle are just right next to each other. It's actually like the distance between like Cleveland and Washington, D.C. Right. I've done that drive. Yeah, right. I mean, it's not it's both of those. Yeah. It's not great. Right. It's the it's the West, man. It's the West. So so you are from you're from Grand Rapids, but that is properly on the mitten. And nowhere near... Yeah, show us the mitten. Yeah. Okay. It's nowhere near... Detroit. Yeah. Grand Rapids. Like Munsing or something. |
| Andrew | I love that. That's such a uniquely Michigan behavior to show the mitten and where you live on the mitten. I love asking people from Michigan where they're from. Even if I know exactly where they're from, I insist that they show me on the mitten. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. It's a fun party trick. |
| Everett | So, so we'll ask for some, we'll ask for some definitional, um, some definitional background. Your other thing then is mixed doubles curling or curling generally doubles curling. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | I, I'm going to watch all the men's and the women's competitions are yet to happen, but I'm into it now. Mixed doubles was exciting. Apparently the rules are different enough that actually the regular curling sounds boring. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | Hmm. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Comparatively, but we'll we'll see. I mean, yeah, I'm going to watch it. |
| Everett | There's still some intensity. You know, we were talking about this, Andrew and I and some other people were talking about this recently about winter sports. It sort of seems like, you know, when you look at like the the summer Olympic teams, be it track and field or swimming, right? Like everybody who's there is sort of the best. right? It feels like the Winter Olympics, you sort of got like this group, like this cadre of folks, and they're like, listen, Bob, you've done mixed doubles for the last six years, you're doing mixed doubles again. And Bob's like, I wanna be on the... Yep. And they're like, it's political, Bob, okay? Yeah. Do your time. Doesn't it feel that way? |
| Andrew | I mean, I'm sure that that's not correct. I mean, the US Olympics that the the representatives of the United States of America, the curling team is a bunch of dudes in their 40s. They're just bros who are all a little fat. |
| Everett | Yeah. Yeah. I love those. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Oh, yeah. But the the the Italian mixed doubles team. |
| Andrew | Now, they're obviously beautiful. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah, they're oh, they're gorgeous. Oh, my gosh. What? How I they they buck the stereotype, but they are Italian. So they fit the stereotype that she's 22. He's 26. They're both fit and gorgeous, like amazing jaw lines. |
| Everett | Um, and they didn't win. They didn't win even with those fucking jaw lines. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | So crushed it. |
| Andrew | They just weren't quite, they just weren't quite good enough to be the ice dancing pair. So like you can curl and we're like, yeah, you push a rock. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Yeah. You know how ice physics work. |
| Andrew | You can push the rock as if it's your partner. And then you sweep the rock. to get it closer to the target. |
| Everett | I can do that. Okay, so a couple last minute questions for you because people are wondering. I'm sure Cowboys or Falcons. |
| Andrew | Yep. |
| Everett | Sports Lions. Okay. Whoa. All right, that's right. So who's gonna win the Super Bowl? |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Who's gonna win? Oh, the Rams. So Matthew Stafford was quarterback for the Detroit Lions for the last 13 years. True story. Did his time We, nobody in Detroit is mad about this. He needed something great where Detroit is all behind the Rams this year. They back when, back when the Rams were good, my, my dad and my brother, their initials are both REM. So they decided that meant they could root for the St. Louis Rams when they were in St. Louis. So we were, we were Rams fans as a kid, when I was a kid. But now I'm a Rams fan because Matthew Stafford is there and I need him to do well because he works so hard for the Lions. He needs something good. |
| Andrew | Okay, he's he's what I wish Joey Harrington could have had. He went to the he went to the lions and just got his shit pushed in for his entire career and Matt Stafford like bless his heart man. He's a number one draft pick and he's going to the lions like well fuck my career and it gets a shit pushed in for a decade and now he's on a Super Bowl team. |
| Everett | and you know people are like joey harrington never panned out and it's like joey harrington never had a lineman over two hundred and forty pounds or five foot six let's talk about joey harrington he had beetle juice blocking for him i mean good god uh okay yeah okay so next question next question uh fp jorn or longa showing okay okay final question final question in your speed round carrie grant jimmy stewart Oh, man, there's a lot of action. You guys can't see the action, but there was a lot of action happening. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | My face, my face, uh, does a lot of things. Yeah. I'm not sure. I'm not sure even what we're talking about here. |
| Everett | Well, I mean, so you're, you're, you're a men's fashion illustrator. |
| (Background noises/laughter) | Yeah. |
| Everett | And in my mind, I think those are like the two icons of traditional menswear of all time, at least in terms of American, you know, offended him. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Oh man. Okay. You said Cary Grant and I was thinking, uh, I was thinking K E R R Y. And I was like, I don't think I know who this person is. |
| Everett | C A R Y. C A R Y, Cary Grant or Jimmy Stewart. |
| Matthew Miller (Sunflower Man) | Very much like my love of watches. I had, there's no history. I don't understand the history. What I know, like I came in after I fell in love. Same thing with menswear. What I know of menswear, Uh, I learned after I fell in love with menswear. So Cary Grant for me is just like an interesting figure who exists from Hollywood and people say that they love his style, but I don't know if they actually really do. I think people, this is my, this is honestly what I feel like is happening. People know they're supposed to say they like Cary Grant. So everybody says he's an inspiration. |
| Everett | Matt, you and I are going to, you and I are going to have to fucking roundabout on this. |
| Andrew | Man, that's why everyone owns a Speedmaster. All right. |
| Everett | Hey, you guys. Thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20, The Watch Clicker Podcast. I want you to do me a favor. I want you to check Matt out at sunflowerman.watches on Instagram. Also at sunflowerman, sunflowerman.com. That's his men's fashion page. And sunflowerman.watch, amazingly, which is The Watches page. You can also check out WatchClicker at WatchClicker.com as you know, or you can find us on Instagram at 40and20 or at WatchClicker. We want to thank Notice Watches for supporting this episode of 40 and 20. You can right now until March 1st on the Notice Watches website, use the code CLICKER at checkout and you can get 10% off any watch on their website. If you want to support WatchClicker or 40 and 20, you can do so at patreon.com slash 40 and 20 look guys that's where we get all the money that we have in our bank accounts to pay for hosting and microphones software etc we really appreciate all the youth that support us and we hope if you don't you might think about in the future and don't forget to tune back in next thursday for another hour of watches food drinks life and other things we like bye-bye |
| Unknown | you |