Episode 170 - Watches Round Up

Published on Wed, 26 Jan 2022 20:34:11 -0800

Synopsis

The podcast episode covers a variety of topics related to watches, including new releases from brands like Timex, Tag Heuer, Oris, Seiko's King Seiko reissue, and a collaboration between MK II and Tornek Rayville. They also discuss a new bracelet offering from Forstner for the Omega Speedmaster, as well as an article about watch and wrist size compatibility. Towards the end, they talk about an Instagram account called "Watches of Espionage" and one of the hosts raves about the Logitech MX Master mouse he recently purchased.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 and 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your host, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Everett	I'm doing well. I realize sometimes, well, I realize all the time, but sometimes it becomes more apparent to me than others that I don't have any experience in audio engineering. So like, I know how to slowly turn the pot on our intro music down, but I don't know, like, is there, are there like a set of guidelines for how long that trail off should be? I just sort of do it in a way that feels right.
Andrew	You just got to feel it. That's art right there. That's artistry.
Everett	I listened to some other podcasts and their tail off on their intro music is pretty abrupt. You know, even if they transition down, it's like a one or even like a half second transition. And I pull ours well into your intro, sometimes even beyond that.
Andrew	We just want to let people ease into the fact that they're about to spend an hour with us. Here it comes. It's coming. Prepare yourself. It's coming.
Everett	And now you're alone with them. I'm sure there's some sort of guidelines that I could find. And they're probably like just on the Internet. That I wouldn't even know where to look.
Andrew	I would start with Google. Yeah. How long should intro music be? And here we are. We're doing our own producing of the show on air to you good folks. Yeah, live.
Everett	We do. We produce the show live. Let's see. What are we going to see? How long should intro music be? Oh, you're going to Google it as we speak. Yeah. Well, how are you, Andrew? I'm well. I've been. So this has been a crazy work week for me. I am literally in between trials in between one day trials, one today, one tomorrow.
Andrew	One day trial is nice though.
Everett	One day trial is nice. Yeah. Uh, you know, it's usually less preparation because there's, there's less time to present things that you've prepared. Uh, but there's still like, I don't know that I've ever recorded in between trials before. And I, I don't know that you have either. Yeah. We still probably, are not going to do tomorrow's trial because I think we've settled.
Andrew	That's a good feeling.
Everett	Well, it's the type of, I think we've settled that does not allow me to not do the work. Sounds right. Yeah. I still have to do the work of preparation, which is bad for my client. It's bad for everybody, but it's good for you. It is good for, uh, the paycheck. Correct. Correct. The billable hour is, is pretty good right now.
Andrew	And this is your lunch hour, so you can still bill it. So according to Neo Sounds articles, I don't know anything about this website. It says they say 15 seconds. Anything longer is a little too much. Podcast intro do's and don'ts. 30 seconds maximum as a rule. I don't think any of these people are sound engineers. I think they're just people who wrote an article. and have affiliate links.
Everett	You know, I don't think the issue is when you come in. I think we've picked a really sort of natural place for you to start talking. I think the question is how long after you start talking should that tail, I mean, theoretically, we could just run it out like the full two minutes at some quiet level of. Oh, that would be annoying. I don't think there's a real answer and I don't think it matters. Well, maybe there is an answer, but, uh, I think it's fine. I just wonder about these things sometimes. We are going to talk about watches today, Andrew.
Andrew	We are.
Everett	We are going to talk about watches. We're going to talk about all sorts of different watches.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	This is going to be a fun one, I think.
Andrew	We're doing... Potpourri is what we call this. A potpourri? Yeah. Potpourri? Yeah. It's like fondue, but just smells good instead of tastes good. Or a roundup?
Everett	Or what's happened in watches? A hoedown? A hoedown. The watch is hoedown. Which is to say we're going to talk about watches, articles, other things that we've read about or heard about in the last couple of weeks.
Andrew	And some things that have piqued our interest.
Everett	And we're going to talk about them because you idiots listen to us talk every week, 170 weeks running at this point. Someone asked me what we do, uh, today. My client was like, so, so what you said something about your recording tonight. And I was like, oh yeah, I've got, uh, I've got a, I've got a podcast. You know, I'm almost embarrassed to say the word because everyone has one. And this guy's like salt of the earth. He's a retired fireman, uh, contractor for 20 years, then became a fireman and was like retired at some like senior level. And he's now you know, building a house out in the country. I mean, he, he's the nicest guy. Doesn't curse as he, as he puts it. Um, you know, just the nicest guy, salt of the earth is what I said earlier. I stand by it. Uh, and so like, I'm sort of embarrassed, right? Cause he's like, Oh, these janitors and they're, uh, but then he's, then he's asking me, well, what's your podcast about? And I'm like, Oh gosh, here we go. Uh, you know, well, it's about watches. Uh, And he's like, well, is there enough to, you could talk about watches for an hour? Well, yes, not only could we talk about watches for an hour, but we're never able to talk about watches for less than an hour, which is always the goal. And we've done it 170 times. He's like, wait, wait, wait.
Andrew	Yeah. We've got to have probably 300 hours of content available. Yeah.
Everett	I think it's maybe not quite there, but yeah, we did the math on it. It's something like, 200 and 250 hours right now of content of just podcast 200 hours.
Andrew	So you broke this guy's brain telling him. Yeah, we've there's a lot of a lot of talking out there.
Everett	I don't think I broke his brain, but I think he just like started to strongly second guess whether I was the guy for him at that trial. Yeah. Did you win? We have not yet, but we're gonna. Yes. We're under consideration and the other side is going to present a settlement agreement in the morning and it'll be fine. Yeah. Under consideration means the judge wanted the other side to go strongly think about whether or not they want to get to the judgment. So yes, we've won.
Andrew	I'm not going to give you the answer to the test here, but the answer you're giving me is wrong.
Everett	In fact, the judges, uh, the, the final statement from the judge was, I'm going to take this under consideration. There's some things I want to consider with that said, I'd like the council to go talk to your clients. And I think there's an opportunity to settle this. So I don't have to make a decision. I'd like your notice on whether or not you've reached a settlement in the morning. So yeah, good feeling yet. No, that is, it's like the best feeling.
Andrew	So So can I talk about something that I'm excited about that got me really excited? Please talk. I didn't send you the link because I wanted it to be a surprise. Where is it? You should have sent the link. Timex has a Space Invaders coming out and now I'll send you the link. It is I think it's perfectly in keeping with everything that that Timex is doing where they're mixing Some fun stuff. They're doing some really no bullshit stuff. They've got some cool collaborations and this just nails it. This could be the first gold watch that I buy.
Everett	Is the Timex Space Invaders watch?
Andrew	The Timex Digital Space Invaders in gold. 34 millimeters. It's got the interesting kind of Timex. It's got their mesh-ish Bracelet yeah, and something that I like about timex is they've got as opposed to a traditional clasp They've got a like a sliding. There's a there's a name for it. That's eluding me right now It's just a slide fit clasp so you can get those bracelets perfectly fit to your wrist There's no slide up and down. There's no worrying about micro adjustments because it's all a micro adjust sliding Clasp right A brace that's going to be so-so, but this is just fun. It's got the black background, the red Space Invaders going all over your dial. 90 bucks, a little more than I would want, but it's Space Invaders and it's coming soon. They don't have, at least on their website, they don't have an announced availability date, but it's fun.
Everett	I'm excited for it. Yeah, no, I really like this watch. So this is sort of, I think they call this their T-80 case, which is
Andrew	They're F-91.
Everett	Yeah, I think it's 84, like it's a little bigger, but yeah, I think there's the the metal A-158 and then this T-80, which I think is kind of a new name for it. I think it was just like the Indiglo or something back in the day. But yeah, these are cool. This is cool. This is cool. I do wish that you could like play Space Invaders on it.
Andrew	But imagine playing Space Invaders in it.
Everett	Tiny little Space Invaders.
Andrew	That seems in the realm of possible. I mean, there's been wrist worn video games.
Unknown	Yeah. Yeah.
Everett	I mean, you could just pretend you were playing Space Invaders on it.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	Which would probably be almost as fun as actually playing Space Invaders on it.
Andrew	Just make the sound effects with your voice.
Everett	Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Yeah, 90 bucks is steep. I wonder if these will be less money than that IRL.
Andrew	Uh, yeah, I don't know. It seems like the Timex prices hold pretty well. I mean, if you look at the Q Timex, it was, what, three years ago released? Two and a half, two, I don't know. Not that recent. They're still $180 on the website. They were $500 on eBay for a short time, so we're going to call it a win that it's now back to retail price.
Everett	I think you can get those Q Timexes for a little bit less money, too.
Andrew	Yeah, but not necessarily from Timex. Right, right, right, right, right, right.
Everett	Oh, this is cool. When did you see this? I haven't seen this yet.
Unknown	I saw it either yesterday or today.
Andrew	I was just scrolling. I was like, ooh, what a good time to be talking about Roundup stuff. Right.
Everett	Because I'm excited about this. This is a Roundup watch. Yeah. And so actually most of the things we're going to talk about today are kind of new watch releases. We've got a bracelet in here. And you've got an article as well, which I like, but maybe we'll save that Maybe we'll save that one for last, because I want to talk, the reason you're here, probably not actually.
Andrew	Just to hear you talk, that's why I came.
Everett	But the one you guys are all going to be excited about, and you've probably already read and thought about and considered, is the new, so Timex is reintroducing, well I guess it did that kind of last year, but it's the new King Seiko. The new King Seiko that was announced this week. We'll link to probably a Fratello or maybe a Warner One on this, if not both. But Seiko just announced this week a dope 57 years ago reissue from the other Seiko factory. So Grand Seiko, King Seiko, we've talked about this, but back in the day competing, competing factory brands. They're reintroducing a reissue or perhaps an inspired by a version of a 1965, I think the King Seiko KSK model. This is like a legit 38 millimeter sport watch. And the dimensions on this thing are killer. 38 millimeters, 42 and a half millimeter lug to lug, 19 millimeter lugs on this thing, which is a little bit of a Grand Seiko-y feel, which is kind of something that bummed me out.
Andrew	And I'm hoping we don't, I just, I don't want to see that. I want to see the Seiko uniformity, that platform, pervading, prevailing right now and not kind of the, the grand Seiko oddities, but the dimensions look good. I imagine this would still look good with 20 mil, 20 millimeter lugs and it looks good.
Everett	You know, my initial reaction was to poopoo the 19 millimeter lugs. I don't know that I don't still feel that way. It's a lot of negatives. Uh, but at the end of the day, the design, I think the lugs look right. I think the, The dimension there is is good and which is not to say it wouldn't be good at 20. I'm sure it would accommodate 20 just fine, but it looks right. The this is I don't know if this is actually grammar of design. Compliant. But it looks to me like a grammar of design style case and those the lugs themselves I think need a little bit of width to carry that off. So I don't know if you take a half a millimeter off of each side, if they still have the same feel. So obviously someone designed this, someone made a decision, I assume someone made a decision, and it looks good.
Andrew	It's one of the AI-designed watches. Right.
Everett	I doubt it, I doubt it, but maybe. It's not. So 42.5 millimeters on the lug-to-lug, which is an incredible dimension. Uh, one thing to note the end link on this does appear to be what we'd call male and link. So it is going to project out from that a little bit. I can't tell maybe, I don't know, maybe an extra two or three millimeters. Um, but those, but those end links are also coming down there, they're sticking downwards. So, uh, anyway, your mileage may, may vary on that either way. It's not going to be, it's not going to be a tremendous. dimensional deviation. And the finishing on this thing looks totally, totally great. Yeah. The bracelet looks great. It's, what do we call that?
Andrew	It's sort of like a, it's kind of like a flat beads of rice.
Everett	Flat beads of rice. Yeah. I think that that's a good, that's appropriate. Super angular, tons of character. Dial is great. Hands are great. No loom on this. Something to note.
Andrew	That's a bit of a bummer.
Everett	No loom on this, at least I don't think there's any loom.
Andrew	It doesn't look like it.
Everett	1,500 bucks, 6R31, which is the new 6R, which is the new 6R, which means 70 hours power reserve, et cetera. I said 1,500 bucks, I think it might be more than that.
Andrew	I think it's closer to 17, I think, like maybe even on the button.
Everett	Yeah, 1,700 euros on this Fratello article that I'm looking
Andrew	Warnham rounds to $1,700 American money.
Everett	Well, we got four or five dial colors. There's a... I think it's a five. Two silvers, so like a sunburst and a brushed silver, brown, black, a pretty dark, like maybe oxblood. Great dial colors, although earthy. Earthy dials. Great medallion on the back. It's a six hour, so it's kind of chunky, but that's... true to Seiko. I read some scuttlebutt about people being disappointed that this was a 6R movement. 6R, I think that's the right movement for this watch.
Andrew	As opposed to what?
Everett	Well, Seiko's got a couple of movements that would be an upgrade from this, like 6S.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	I think it is a little thinner, maybe a little bit better, objectively speaking, but I don't know. It's, you know,
Andrew	But then you're not looking at a $1,700 watch, you're driving it up price line.
Everett	You're probably $2,000, $2,100. Yeah. So this is cool. I think this is exciting. I think it's exciting that Seiko's exploring something different at this point. You know, a few years back, it kind of seemed like Seiko was delineating. We've got Prisaj, we've got Prospex, we've got Grand Seiko, which is its own brand. But related. but related, and then the five sports. I think this probably exists somewhere parallel to Prisaj, based on what they've done with this King Seiko series so far.
Andrew	I think they're gonna do that as an intermediary between Prisaj and Grand Seiko. I think they're gonna try to, I hope they try to make King Seiko its own thing, similar to the way Grand Seiko is, and just a little bit upmarket of Prisaj little bit more dress inspired, a little bit more refined, maybe a vintage, maybe a vintage parallel to presage because grand Seiko has all that feel, but none of it's vintage. And I think they can, they can really play an interesting direction with this now.
Everett	Yeah. Cause they can go, they can go anywhere from obviously anywhere from 1500 to, you know, maybe even a lot more, um, depending on what they want to do with it. So this is, This is cool, man. I'm into it. I don't have anything bad to say about it.
Andrew	You think this is going to be the baseline, like the foot in the door, bottom of the King Seiko catalog, or you think they'll maybe go down a little bit?
Everett	I don't think they can go down any. For the King Seiko brand, I don't think it makes any sense at all to go down from there. Yeah. It's something. I mean, maybe ditch the bracelet, but yeah, no, I think if you're going to have a King Seiko brand, it doesn't make sense to have it be $800, $900 watches. Yeah.
Andrew	No, I mean, not with the Prospex line and yeah.
Everett	So yeah, that's all I have to say about that.
Andrew	Okey dokey then. What do you got? Tag Heuer did something cool.
Everett	Oh yeah. We don't talk about a lot of Tag Heuer on this show, but we're going to talk about two Tag Heuer watches.
Andrew	We are and I think And maybe we'll get some hate for this. I don't think Tag Heuer gets the recognition that it deserves because it's quartz. It's a little bit of a bro-y brand, but I think really the cornerstone of the watch community not being a fan of Tag Heuer's quartz.
Everett	I think Tag Heuer is just sort of a modern walking or a wearable identity crisis. I mean, the people who wear Tag Heuer. Tom Brady wears Tag Heuer. The people who wear Tag Heuer, the people who design Tag Heuer, the people who sell Tag Heuer. I mean, there's a lot of problems with Tag Heuer as a brand, but it's one, you know, just last week I talked about the two watches that got me interested in the hobby. One of those being an Aqua Terra, the other being a Tag Heuer 2000. It's a great, I mean, talk about legacy. Yeah. Legacy for days. And, and, you know, there's a distinction to be made between Hoyer and Hoyer of vintage racing fame and then Tag Heuer, the recovery brand, the post-courts crisis. The, the post-courts crisis. Tag Heu or Recovery Brand. Some unpacking of that is maybe due for another episode. But I think Tag's doing cool stuff right now.
Andrew	They are. So what are you going to talk about? Notable. We're going to talk about two new Octavias. A Sunray Silver Dial and a DLC Black. And these are good. I mean, the Octavia is in my mind, one of the chronographs, right? When I think of a chronograph, I'm immediately going to, um, like top of mind, I come up with a Monaco, I come up with a Speedmaster and I come up with an Octavia and I think that's kind of where it stops for me. Like those are my first three. If you say name three and then and then you're under the gun, you're like, oh, what do I pick? What do I pick? What do I pick? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And then you forget anything else exists. There's a lot of great chronographs out there, but this is exciting. It's just a refresh, if you will, coming into the new year with is this a full reissue?
Everett	I think it's a full reissue. I don't know that it's a reissue. So I think Hoyer did a thing with Octavia in 2019 where they kind of went full retro with it. But I don't know that at this point they're doing reissues.
Andrew	I think that this is... Well, that's why I ask, can this be a reissue? Like a kind of course correction of what happened?
Everett	Yeah, I don't know. I think this is a continuation of their retro language that they've introduced. But what it does mean is Octavia is a chronograph again. Octavia is a chronograph, and not only is a chronograph, it's a legacy chronograph, I think, which is something that I'm not sure people have been begging for, but something that just seems so obvious that it's been almost silly that they that that Tag Heuer's kind of neglected this really obvious part of what should have been their lineup. This is a this is a totally modern, automatic chronometer chronometer grade flyback chronograph, which should have been something that anybody could buy at any Tag Heuer boutique ever. And really, you haven't been able to do that. This is a flagship. This is a flagship piece. And it looks great. It's a big it's a big watch.
Andrew	It's it's robust 45
Everett	I think it's I think it's 42. It's a 42 millimeter case, but it's a oh, yeah.
Andrew	Yeah, it's a big-ass The movements 13 millimeters, so I Think it comes in at 16 total. Yeah, that's a that's a chunk But it's also a big-ass racing chronograph.
Everett	So it should be Yeah, I don't think them. I don't think the movement is a caliber. Oh, too. It's a Salida SW 300 basically Um, I don't think the movement itself is 13 millimeters. I think the watch is 13, right?
Andrew	Uh, no. It says thickness over 13 millimeter.
Everett	So that means it's probably a 16 millimeter watch. Yeah. Well, so it's a big watch. It's a big watch. Screw down. I mean, this is like, uh, this is like a big old, uh, GFY watch is what this is.
Andrew	Oh, so 15.68 thick total.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's cool. How much are these? So these are under 10 grand, I think. Yes.
Andrew	Panda for $6,300.
Everett	On a bracelet, $69.50 for the DLC. Which is A shitload of money.
Andrew	GMT is $4,200 though, and the GMT looks really good.
Everett	Yeah. The GMT has like a more deliberate retro vibe.
Andrew	Yes.
Everett	Yeah. Because the chronograph's got sort of retro vibes, but also super modern.
Andrew	They did a good job combining the two, like respecting the heritage of the watch and implementing that in the design language without just doing it again.
Everett	And you know what I like about these? So this feels like a classic Hoyer. It feels like a classic Hoyer. It feels not retro so much as just classic looking, really clear, Tag Heuer language. What I like about it is that it's a Tag Heuer logo. One of the things they've done with their retro design language recently is they've done these Heuer only logos. And I like that. I think a lot of people like that, but it also seems like it's a one-off to me. And I would rather not have a one-off watch. I like that this is just a, this is a Tag Heuer watch and this is the watch that we make now. Yeah, I think this is great.
Andrew	You don't keep working on rebuilding a brand by mislabeling it.
Everett	Can we talk about the next one? Because I'm more excited about this one.
Andrew	I figured you would be.
Everett	I'm more excited about this one. Tag Heuer. Last year did a 300 meter 43 millimeter Aquaracer re-release, which is a very beautiful watch. But announced, if not today, in the last couple of days, they're also going to release a 200 meter automatic Aquaracer. And this thing, so when I said this last week, and I've said it four minutes ago, and I'm going to say it again now, the Tag Heuer 2000, was my gateway drug. And this feels like a Tag Heuer 2000. It's a 200 meter aqua racer, 40 meters, amazing sort of textured, angular, decagon, or I don't know, whatever.
Andrew	I don't know how many sides there are, like 15? I don't know, a bunch. Maybe an octagon. Angles.
Everett	Yeah. It's got angles. One, two, three. Yeah, whatever. It's fantastic. This watch is amazing. We do have a horizontal striped dial, which... Okay.
Andrew	Can't fix that. Okay.
Everett	It is what it is. This thing is straight out of 1995, but totally modern, and I am fucking here for it. I am here for this watch. I yes, I have not and it's a $2,500 watch. It's an automatic Tag Heuer $2,500 40 meter 40 millimeter 200 meter dive watch and I am fucking here for it courts for 1850 though.
Andrew	I dig this this this holds ground for me like against a Seamaster. I like it better than Seamaster. It is also super Tag Heuer-y.
Everett	This is what I think about when I think about a Tag Heuer. This is it, man. I think that this is the best entry-level Swiss diver on the market right now. I haven't touched it, obviously. But if someone comes to me and says, I want an entry-level Swiss diver, I say, you should look at this. This is this is it for me. I love this watch.
Andrew	It's good. The bracelet, polish and polish and brush alternating. Great. Great bezel shape. I mean, this is this is just a cool watch. This is a go anywhere dive watch.
Everett	I love this watch. This may be my favorite watch release that I've seen in two years. At least from a Swiss company. I haven't seen anything come out of Switzerland in the last two years that excited me as much as this. Wow.
Andrew	I'm talking Swiss big brands, like the... The Swiss big brands. Yes, you're right. You're exactly right.
Everett	I was like, I think you're maybe wrong about that. Yeah. No, no. I mean, some of that is really unique to me and maybe us, but just who I am. I mean, it's not just the aesthetics. It's also You know, we play in this, in this affordables territory. And so it's very rare that we see something from a Swiss big brand that plays, that plays in that area.
Andrew	And doesn't just play, but like, is the big kid on the playground throwing elbows and, and laying waste to the world around it?
Everett	I mean, this is, this is what Tag Heuer is to me. I love this watch. And I'm just going to keep saying that unless and until we move on. I don't think we need to move on.
Andrew	I think we can just hang it on right here. I'd like to keep hearing about your love for this watch.
Everett	You know, I think, I think I need to get hands on this. I don't know if we have the ability to get hands on a Tag Heuer. I know some guys who do know, but I want to do a review of this. I am, I'm smitten, Andrew. I'm smitten.
Andrew	I think it's in the realm of possible. Also, it's Tag Heuer, so it's going to be available at most jewelry stores. You could probably go to Fred Meyer next week and put your hands on this.
Everett	11 millimeters, by the way. That's the guinea. Dude. Okay, next we got to talk about a stupid watch. It's not a stupid watch. What stupid watch do you want to talk about? This is not a stupid watch. This is a very, very cool watch. But some of you will know, some of you will know that this week, this last weekend, Oris hosted its, I think their annual, I don't know if they've done this through COVID, but they hosted some folks in Vail for a ski trip where they unveil watches. Oris is kind of famous for doing this.
Andrew	Oris is- Unveiling in Vail? That's what I'm talking about. Just when you said that, that's when that happened to me.
Everett	Oris is kind of famous, especially in the affordables world for, I like the term fluffing, for fluffing the media. There's nothing wrong with that. Look, I'm never going to, I'm never going to talk bad about that process because I would be elated to get an invite to participate in that process. So I'm not going to talk shit about it. because if I ever get the invite, I'm going to go and I don't want to look like an asshole for saying, Oh, and then going on this thing. Uh, but I will say what you get out of it is a lot of folks posting the same watch over and over again. And so there's two watches. One of them, one of them, we're almost certainly not going to talk about because It costs more money than I'll ever spend on a watch. Two watches that were really big this week. We're not going to talk about one of them. We will talk about this one. This is a bronze Oris big crown pointer date, which I think is maybe an underrated watch in the watch world. The big crown pointer date, generally speaking, I think it's underrated. They're huge. They're all dial. But they're gorgeous. Really neat dial. Classic styling. Good fonts. Great bracelets. Great case design. Great bezel. But kind of boring.
Andrew	They've released these in bronze. I mean the splash, the excitement of it is the pointer date functionality. That's how they bring flavor to what is otherwise a very gorgeous but very basic three-hander.
Everett	Yeah, I don't think these watches are basic at all, but I hear what you're saying.
Andrew	But bronze.
Everett	They released these in bronze. I'm fine with it. I have feelings about it.
Andrew	Tell me. And it's more like metallurgy feelings. Bronze is, to me, a strange material to make a up tool out of because of the way bronze ages and i know this is treated and i know it's that this isn't like the bronze that you see of statues from a hundred years ago that are now just like green but it is a weird material i like the color i i i see it i just don't know if bronze is for me right although the bronze with that brown dial It just, it looks like you're wearing a caramel on your wrist and I would, I'm down with that. I just am, I hold probably baseless reservations about bronze as a material.
Everett	No, I don't, I don't know that they're baseless. I mean, bronze is problematic, right? Bronze, like sort of you, you, you transfer your own patina to bronze and vice versa. I mean, bronze is problematic. I understand that there are different types of bronze and that they can control for some of that. Like you said, they cope, but yeah, no, that's a problem. That's a problem. And the idea of, of wearing patina watches is in and of itself, maybe not problematic. That's not the right word, but it's, there's some niche Aesthetics there, right?
Andrew	Your watch is gonna patina on its own. This is, this is kind of, kind of like faux-tina-ing your loom. It's, it's gonna happen.
Everett	Although it's not faux-tina, it's actual just patina that happens really fucking fast. Super fast.
Andrew	You know, you could, you could just polish it weakly with like some kind of acid to clean it up. Just lemon, lemon juice or whatever. Yeah, but come on. I don't know, I think it's a It's a niche and I think that's maybe the right choice. This is like a safe baby, put it on occasionally, get itchy, maybe an allergic reaction.
Everett	I won't say the colors they've offered this in. I don't know if the dial colors are any different than the standard big crown pointer date colors, but the colors that Aurra sort of rolls with, I think are hospitable to a bronze type of case, right? They've got these really sort of saturated but also subdued jewel tone dials. And I think that it will look good. If you want a bronze watch, I think this is a good place to start, perhaps. But you've got to answer that question before these become interesting. Do I want a bronze watch?
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	There's some soul searching to go on there. I think for like $2,500, you can get a solid bronze case and bracelet. Which is interesting. That is, in and of itself, interesting.
Andrew	I wonder what the lifespan of that bracelet is.
Everett	Yeah, I don't know, because bronzes have got a different vicar scale rating than, certainly than steel, but other materials as well. So, you know, it may be softer. And obviously, we don't know what the bracelet construction on this. Do they have, like, steel tubes or something to prevent stretch? I don't know. I don't know.
Andrew	I don't know what I don't know. Yeah, that'd be interesting, the pins. I feel like they'd have to be bronze because if they're using steel, that would put at risk to the bracelet breaking, not the pin.
Everett	I don't know, man. I don't know what I don't know. It's a good looking watch. I think these are cool. I think that it was the hype watch of the week because people were getting a free Vail ski trip and they were like, this is what they showed us. Here's pictures of it, which there's nothing wrong
Andrew	Their whole lineup is great. That, that, uh, the oris rectangle, every time I see it, I'm like, Ooh, God, I forgot about you. I could do that one.
Everett	So we've got one more watch that we're going to talk about today, Andrew. Oh, but, but, but, but wait, wait, it's actually two watches.
Andrew	I think.
Everett	Wait, wait, wait. Can we first talk about a bracelet? Oh, we should. We don't talk about bracelet releases very often on this show. Because one, there's very rarely interesting bracelet releases, things that release that I find interesting. Maybe some people are like bracelet nerds.
Andrew	There's not many people releasing them very often. Uncle Seiko releases what, like once a year? A couple of times a year, yeah. And that's really all I can think of. It's not Ollie that's dropping bracelets with regularity.
Everett	But Forstner, Forstner has made a comeback in the last few years. Everybody knows Forstner.
Unknown	Mm-hmm.
Everett	Forstner makes some weird bracelets. I don't know if it's okay to call them weird. People like Forstner. I feel like we're gonna like... I think they make unique bracelets.
Andrew	They make bracelets that you're not gonna be able to find, either OEM or new old stock. They're making retro, is that the right word? I think vintage bracelets, I think is the appropriate one.
Everett	And they're doing stuff, you know, by and large, they're taking these old designs, they're making really minor, modern tweaks to them, and kind of re-releasing them in their classic iterations, right?
Unknown	Mm-hmm.
Everett	So they made a few years ago, maybe last year, they made a Omega Speedmaster Flatlink. They did. And it was popular. People liked it because it's Forstner. Forstner's got this long history. You can read about Forstner somewhere else. Maybe sometime we'll talk about Forstner on the show. That's not today. Um, but it's, it was this very vintage inspired vintage looking and probably having never held one vintage feeling watch bracelet and people were buying them for primarily modern watches. and there was a bit of a mismatch there. The clasp was tinny and thin and stamped like it was originally. The links were thin like they were originally. This was a reissue pretty much of their original flat link bracelet for the Omega Speedmasters. They have just in the last week or so announced that they are going to start selling or perhaps have started selling a totally modern flat link bracelet specifically for the full-size Omega Speedmaster. And I think it looks killer.
Andrew	They're available now. I think it looks killer. It looks great. And I think they were victims of their own success. They had this great design. They produced what they knew they could produce. And people were like, no, no, no, I don't want a vintage bracelet. I want a real bracelet that looks vintage and fix it right.
Everett	Can you fix this and they've done it? Yeah, it looks great. So they've gone from two and a half millimeters to three millimeters on the link, which is a which is a big change. If you've never looked at link sizing, if you've never like measured the thickness of your links, they're really missing out on some excitement. You'll realize that that's a huge jump, right? So like, for instance, I think the SARB bracelet is like three and change. Most modern bracelets come in at three to 3.2, 3.4 millimeters. So two and a half is very thin. Three is not overly thick, but more in the modern range. They've taken this thing and they've basically improved it in every way. The clasp is a full machine clasp that aesthetically looks identical.
Andrew	Yep.
Everett	Fully milled to the old one, but yeah, fully milled machine. The inside is got some character, but it's also very simple. Um, this is just like, they've taken something that was cool and retro and made it really good and retro. And I'm here for it.
Andrew	When you sent me this, I had recalled seeing some recent photos of the new bracelet and it got me back on their website and I was like, oh yeah, all these bracelets look awesome. I want them. I really, I think I'm gonna get the clip. What are you gonna get it for? I don't know. I think it'll go well on nothing, but I want it.
Everett	So one thing I wanted to talk about, so this is 190 bucks, I think, for this new bracelet, That's not a ton of money. That's not a ton of money. Not when you're putting it on your Speedmaster. That's right. That's right. And it's got that rightness to it that I think will attract some people, right? Forstner's this historical brand, historical relationships with Omega, or at least, maybe not a relationship, but at least there's that historical significance there that makes it feel like not Like not third-party necessarily, but like second, I don't know what is in between.
Andrew	Custom parts. The question is, would your Speedmaster clasp fit on this bracelet?
Everett	Yeah, that's an interesting question. I don't know the answer to that.
Andrew	Because I think I'd feel more comfortable with that. Yeah. The ability to put my branded clasp on my third-party bracelet.
Everett	It's something that is worth looking into. I did want to say one other thing about this though, because at $190, so I think their old flat link was a little bit less than that. Not a lot, maybe $130-ish if I'm remembering right. This new one's more expensive than that. There is also another option. Uncle Seiko makes flat links for both the Speedy Reduced and the Full Size Speedmaster. They are closer to the original flat links, which is to say stamped clasps. I think more modern sizing in the links. But I think that's a $90, maybe even $85. So for a little... $89 for the flat link. About half of the price.
Andrew	Do you have one of these? You have an Uncle Seiko for your Speedmaster, don't you?
Everett	I don't. No. What I have is I have the Mexico Holzer, the Mexico Holzer Uncle Seiko recreation.
Andrew	Yeah, but so you have an Uncle Seiko.
Everett	Yes. Yeah. And it's great. It's really well done. But it is, I mean, the manufacturing standards are, it's not, does not feel like a modern premier high-end bracelet. So, yeah, your mileage may vary. If you've got 90 bucks, look at Uncle Seiko. If you've got twice that much, consider looking at Forstner.
Andrew	Yeah, I have the, I have the Jubilee for the Saab that fits the Alpinist. The Uncle Seiko Jubilee? And my, that's exactly my assessment is the bracelet feels like a, like a vintage bracelet. It doesn't feel cheap. It just feels like a, a vintage bracelet.
Everett	And even with a stamped clasp, it is better than the SAR bracelet.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	Yeah. Yeah. I'd call it about even, I think it looks better.
Everett	Uncle Seiko does a good job with pricing too. You can tell that the pricing that he employs is, is rational, right? He's got some sort of markup and he uses that markup. So you're paying what he pays plus what he should make on it. Yeah. So, um, yeah, that's, that's all I have on that. We, we, we now I've almost been avoiding it because I hate to talk about controversial things. Uh, but we should talk about Mark too. We should, we should talk about Mark too. Um, this week, this week, Mark II announced Bilhau, the Bilhau brand, Mark II MK II, announced a reissue of their very, I believe, their very first watch, the Stingray Carolman, I think is how you pronounce that.
Andrew	That's how I would try to say it.
Everett	Uh, This is a beautiful watch. This is a beautiful watch. It is an iteration, uh, or, or, uh, an homage to perhaps the classic Blancpain 50,000 dive watch, which many people will point out as the original dive watch, perhaps. Um, so it was the original dive watch, bro. Uh, and this thing looks really, really good.
Andrew	Yeah. Absolutely not a complaint in the world about it.
Everett	It's priced really well. Mm hmm. Um, I can't remember exactly how much these are, but 95 895, um, it comes with an Erica's original. It's basically available right now. I think if you order one now, you can get it in a few weeks. Uh, classic layout for 3430 date window, which not everybody's going to love. uh 4 30 day windows my jam sort of a standard dot and baton marker set with a bit of a stylized diamond i think i'll call that at 12 o'clock uh not crazy dial fonts a great mark ii logo good looking bezel matte bezel a blasted finish this is a great watch right there's a fucking huge problem with it though Bill Yow, which is that Bill Yow just concluded pre-orders on the reissued Tornek Rayville TR660, which is, from what I can tell, it has a different dial, exactly the same as this watch in almost every single way. Yeah. Except for the fake water intrusion meter on the Tornek Rayville. I don't get this.
Andrew	There's a couple parts there, parts to it. Number one, why? Why? Why? And number two, why within weeks of each other? If this had been released a year from now, I'd be a little grumbling like, oh, this looks really familiar. These are watches that are going to be in, they were probably in production at the same
Everett	Well, I don't think so. I think that the tourniquet was the preview just the pre bills, the pre orders just finished on those. So we're probably looking at a production that hasn't started. And I think they're expected in August, which means he's probably going to put that order in after Chinese New Year's, uh, Chinese New Year and the factories reopen based on what I know about these processes. Um, these are available in three weeks, which means that they've been in production for three to five months. Um, so there, there may just be some like common sense business decisions happening here. And certainly that's what it is. It feels a little bit, um, it feels a little shitty to me.
Andrew	It's weird. It's a weird thing to do.
Everett	Yeah. Maybe I'm not offended, but it does seem weird. Yeah. I'll hold my offense. Cause I mean, honestly, who cares, but it seems weird to me.
Andrew	It's just, it's, it's weird for no reason that why, why make the same watch twice? And I understand there's some nuanced differences and those differences are important. And maybe you don't like the Mark two and you want a water intrusion indicator and a different 12 o'clock marker. It I'm, I'm kind of perplexed by it. I don't think I can get on board with like the incensed. Yeah, no me either thing, because, but that's also like it's watches who cares. But like I don't get why people are actually angry about this or truly offended by it. It's just a weird thing.
Everett	It's weird.
Andrew	I've said many times that you can only make a watch in so many ways. Calling every watch an homage to something else. Well, I can't get on board with, but this is an homage.
Everett	This is just the same watch. Well, it's deliberately an homage to the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms. The Tourniquet Ville is obviously an homage to the Blancpain, although there's also some dead brand, zombie brand revival things going on there. I'm not critical of those things. And I think you're maybe a little bit more critical than I am. It's like, whatever, that's all fine. I think the timing of this thing is particularly curious. But at the end of the day, I always say, I think, I always say, more is more. So it's fine. The timing's weird. I don't quite understand it. And maybe some people would prefer to have a Mark II. Maybe some people would prefer to have Tornek Raybill. So in that sense, it's good.
Andrew	It's kind of like one of those Kickstarter orders where you can choose an automatic or a quartz movement.
Everett	I think if I had my druthers, I'd prefer a brand to say, we're releasing this both under Mark II and under our Revival brand, Tornek Raybill, and you get to choose. Yeah. It feels like a little bit of a bait-and-switch to right after closing pre-orders on the tourniquet bill to offer a cheaper mark to it just feels a little bit and you know honestly and today who cares and maybe he'll let people cancel one and get the other I'm not sure I'm not sure it seems like with a pre-order situation it'd be hard for him to do that so I don't know there there does feel like a little bit of a transparency problem here to me Maybe that's the issue. That's all I have to say about that and that is all I have to say about watches, Andrew, unless you've got an article about wrist sizes that you want to talk about.
Andrew	I've got one quick article and I read this today and thought it was exactly the spirit of
Everett	our podcast. Of 40 and 20.
Andrew	This is a 40 and 20 article. Of the watch clicker family. So this is an article by Fratello from Lex Stolk and it is called the watch slash wrist size dilemma. Is there such a thing as a watch that's too big or too small? And the answer is yes. It's a quick read article.
Everett	Yes and yes.
Andrew	He took three people, four people, including himself, and had them try on the, uh, which Panerai mega, it doesn't matter. It's a Panerai, any of, um, a Seamaster, a 36 Explorer and a tank and took pictures of everyone wearing these four watches and had them rate them on the, the, the three bears too big, too small, just right scale and took pictures of all of them. And I got to say, I've, I'm rarely inclined to like a watch is too big for me because I don't like to wear a watch that big. It's not to say if I did like to wear a watch that big, it would look bad. And I think people tend to shy away from sized watches and we in the watch world make a big deal of over half millimeters, points of millimeters in the way sizing is important. And this was a good, just a quick read and look article at like, no, wear what you want and what you like, because that's what actually matters. Because really the only person that looked weird in the Panerai was the woman who didn't size it properly. So she looked like an 80s banker.
Everett	There's no Panerai in this review.
Andrew	That's a Panerai.
Everett	There's a Ploprof. There's a Seamaster.
Andrew	There's... Oh, it's the Ploprof. Yeah. That's what I meant. Oh, Ploprof. Yeah. He said Panerai early and then I got stuck on it. He said a 47 millimeter Panerai. It looks chunky on my wrist. I'm like, yeah, it does. Yeah, the Ploprof. Yeah, that's the only person who looks weird. The Ploprof with an unsized bracelet.
Everett	And I've tried one of these on and it legit looks weird on her because she's got a tiny wrist.
Andrew	But I think it's also because it's not size because I tried one of these on and I would have thought it would have been entirely too big. But with a properly sized bracelet, I was like, I could see it. I wouldn't wear it because I don't need to get just strong in my right arm, but it's just bigger than I want to wear.
Everett	But I can see it when it's the type of watch, too. There's a YouTuber, Random Rob's. I can't remember her name. Random Rob's. partner wears a, she's got a tiny wrist and she wears one of these and it looks great. It's like, yeah, that looks sick. So it's the kind of watch that it's already a GFY watch. So might as well put it on a tiny wrist and be really like two middle fingers.
Andrew	Exactly. Yeah. I thought it was a fun, just a fun quick read. Yeah. A good reminder that watch choices are intensely personal and you should not let us influence your decision.
Everett	Yeah. And, and really way more, way more sizes will work for you than you probably think if you get, if you can just wrap your head around what you're doing with that watch.
Andrew	Yeah, that's it.
Everett	Andrew. Other things. What do you got at 59 minutes?
Andrew	Oh, we are getting in there. So I, my other thing is an Instagram fella and I've been following this guy for, I don't know,
Everett	short while. Can Instagram fellas be another thing? Yeah.
Andrew	And so it is. So his only fans is, uh, no, so it's, it's called watches of espionage and Houdinki just did a write up on him. And this is a former CIA officer who also collects watches and his Instagram is entirely like a watch picture. and some espionage world story to go along with said watch. So recently he, uh, his post from four days ago, the Russian illegal spy and a Chapman wearing a lady in red Ulysses Nardine diver. And he tells a little bit of story about her, a little bit of story about the watch and his post. And then we move on to the next story picture. But it's fascinating, these like little intricate... Uh-oh.
Everett	Whoa. That is not allowed.
Andrew	But it's fascinating, these little fun stories and anecdotes about watches and the people who have worn them. I think one of my favorites was the arms dealer, Victor Bout, wearing his Breitling B1. And he tells quite a bit of stories about Breitlings, which are apparently favorites of arms dealers. A lot of Breitling references. Not surprising, perhaps. And every time I see these Breitlings, I'm like, man, I want a Breitling. Very few watches do that to me. I'm like, man, I want one. I want one. But Breitlings have been calling to me as of late. This is cool. I've never seen this. Yeah, it's fun. It's different. It's still, you know, watch media and still watch stuff.
Everett	but so not technically other things, but you know, we'll get it's another thing.
Andrew	Hey, no, we'll, we'll, it's an other thing and I haven't read the ho dinky article that just came out on him, but they did a I don't know if it was an interview or just a like an interview and a write up, but yeah, cool, that's my other thing.
Everett	Watches of espionage clicking follow right now and hey, I've got another thing do me Andrew, when was the last time you thoughtfully bought a mouse, a computer mouse?
Andrew	I don't know. Maybe never.
Everett	I don't think I ever have either. I have used a magic mouse with my Mac since probably about whenever the magic mouse came out. I think I got one. I just bought it almost an impulse buy. It was an expensive impulse buy, but I was like, Oh, there's a Mac specific mouse. I'll just buy that Mac specific mouse and use that. And, um, that's more or less served me well. There's some things about the magic mouse that are interesting. It's got sort of onboard gestures. It's like, Oh, like partially trackpad anyway.
Andrew	Is that the one you can't charge while also using?
Everett	Yes. Yes. So there are some problems with the magic mouse, which, um, have never been too much for me to handle, but you can't like the most recent version, you can't charge it. The charging ports on the bottom of the mouse. And so if you are out of battery, you cannot use your mouse.
Andrew	You know what that is? That's them teaching you a lesson for not planning ahead, right?
Everett	Or it's them favoring form of a function. Thank you, Apple. Uh, that's fine. Moving on. My magic mouse broke about two weeks ago. I don't know if it's broken or... Have you charged it?
Andrew	Have you tried turning it off and turning it back on again?
Everett	In any event, it stopped working the way I needed it to be working in order to just do things on my computer. And so I started to buy a new magic mouse and I was like, do I really want a magic mouse? Is this good enough to spend another still kind of a lot of money on And I ultimately decided no was the answer. And so I did what any watch-seeking, considerate consumer would do, and I googled best mouse.
Andrew	He now has parts coming from Ollie. 2022.
Everett	To build his own. Yeah, exactly. I ordered parts to build my own mouse. You didn't. No, of course I didn't. No. I found that there are probably like 10 sort of electron, there's Tom's and there's, um, uh, like Tom's hardware and then, uh, wire cutter and all these websites, digital review, or I don't know, whatever, just, you know, you go to these websites and top 10 mouses for 2022, all of them recommended the same mouse, mouse, mouse, same mouse. All of them recommended the Logitech MX master mouse part do And I also found that they offer this in a Mac specific version, which is essentially the same exact thing, but with some sort of Mac specific functionality, whatever. So a hundred bucks. I took a flyer. I ordered it. It came about a week ago today and it is fantastic.
Andrew	It's like the tactile feedback, the texture on it. I mean, what are we working with here?
Everett	All of the above. It is, uh, it's a digital, it's a digital mouse, which, uh, the way it tracks is either. It's not optical, which I understand to mean it would not be ideal for gaming. I assume there's some sort of timing and probably precision and, but I'm not gaming, right? Yeah. And maybe precision as well. I'm not gaming. What I need is something that can do all the basic things I need. But what I've also found is that it comes pre-programmed for certain websites and apps with like special functionality. So it's got a thumb wheel. It's got a couple buttons that are strategically located, like one under where your finger sits on the scroll wheel, one where your thumb naturally hits. To close all tabs? It does things. It does things. No, it doesn't close all tabs. But it It is just, first, I will say, I did not expect the extra stuff to be intuitive, which meant I was probably not going to play with the extra stuff. I was like, it's a $100 mouse, I'll be able to do whatever I want and nothing more. And I'll probably just do basic mouse stuff. All of the things it does are so intuitive that five days of using this thing later, I'm doing many of the things it does without thinking about it. I'm just doing the things. It's like, uh, I don't know. I'm gushing a little bit, probably even a little bit excessively because it's just still just a fucking mouse. But everything you do feels good. The scroll wheel feels great. How can a scroll wheel feel great? Is it clicky or rolly? Either. You can switch. Okay. You can switch. Also, if you have it in clicky mode, um, It's got a break point. So we're where if you like go faster, Oh, it will automatically switch into rolly mode. So you can, so, so you can have it just free rolly all the time. You can put it into indexing or clicky mode. And then if you really goose it, when you're indexing, it will like just set itself into a role for that role. I mean, it's like, it's just, it's a really good piece of hardware and I've been really excited about it. Every like I brought it home the other night. I knew I needed to work at home and I don't normally bring my mouse home. I just bring my laptop and use use it like a laptop and I was like I'm gonna bring the mouse. I need I'm not gonna be able to work. I'm not gonna be able to work if I don't have my mouth. So MX master mouse two three, whatever the new one is part day. I think it's part day. Uh it's it's fantastic. If you're looking for a mile miles man, I know man. I don't know what to tell you. I feel a little hyper tonight.
Andrew	You're, you are a little jacked up.
Everett	I like it. It's in between. It's, it's the whole, anyway, I recommend it. It's a hundred bucks. The Logitech also makes other really highly recommended products for a lot less. Some people don't want to spend a hundred bucks on a mouse. That's a lot of money. I did. I was kind of like, can I just get the $40 one? And I was feeling, I was just in one of those moods and I was like, fuck it. I'm going to get this right off. Well, that is, that is very, very accurate. But I'm so glad I did. It's like super fun. Jackpot. I didn't expect it to be fun either. Because who would? It's a mouse. And I've got another other thing for next week that's related to this purchase. But I'm just going to I'm just going to tease it right now. It's related to this purchase. I've been using them together. I'm going to tease it. I'm not going to tell you what it is. No, it's not a keyboard. That's all. All right. I'm out of things. I'm out of things. Andrew, are we going to get any negative feedback from this week?
Andrew	Yeah, we get negative feedback every week. Usually, it's just the sound of our voices.
Everett	Hey, you guys, thanks for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the WatchClicker podcast. We really appreciate you coming here. Check us out on Instagram at 40 in 20 at WatchClicker. You can also go to our website and you should. weekly articles and reviews, as well as every episode of this podcast. I want to thank notice for supporting this episode of 40 and 20 notice watches. You can go to the notice website right now and buy a watch. And if at checkout, you type clicker into the little window, you'll get a 10% discount. Any watch on the website. Thank you notice for supporting us. If you want to support us, you can do so at patrion.com slash 40 and 20. We really hope you do because that's how we get all the money to pay for hosting, hardware, software, et cetera. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye-bye.