Episode 167 - Recommending a Starter Watch

Published on Wed, 05 Jan 2022 22:02:45 -0800

Synopsis

Andrew and Everett discuss recommendations for someone looking to buy their first watch, considering different options like affordable Seiko, Orient, and microbrands like Traska and Laurier. They cover various price ranges, different needs (just wanting a watch vs. getting into the hobby), and the changing landscape of entry-level watch options as microbrands have improved value propositions. They also touch on other topics like DNA testing kits Andrew recently purchased, Everett's new home security cameras, and supply chain issues impacting watch availability.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your host, Andrew. I'm a good friend, Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and things we like. Everett, before I ask how you are, I'm gonna make a really offensive noise.
Everett	Everett, how are you? That was more offensive than I expected it to be.
Andrew	Well, so here's the thing. Everett kind of surprise started me. So I didn't have my headphone cable set up. I didn't have my microphone boom moved where I wanted it to. I wasn't settled in. I did get the beer open. That's the important part. But then I had to make the rest of my final adjustments. So you had to listen to the of the coiled headphone cable against the table. Thank you to our producers who are here really doing a good job keeping us on track, keeping us focused, and making sure that we produce the highest quality content that money can buy.
Everett	Yeah. You know, it's, it's a great thing having producers probably. Yeah.
Andrew	That empty blue chair over there with just a sad pillow looking at us. We should put a, like a sad face pillow in that seat, just constantly judging us.
Everett	You know what we should do? We should get like a printout for your wall of like a, like a fake production booth. So like when you come in here, it looks like you're looking at someone producing us.
Andrew	We can get like one of the big heads. You just get like Tom Brady or someone on the big head just staring at us constantly. This is Sam's like day-to-day workplace, so I'm sure she loves just locking eyes with Tom.
Everett	Did you ask me how I was? Because I'm going to tell you anyway. I did. I said, Everett, how are you? Yeah, I'm doing well. I'm sort of like ready to talk about watches tonight. I've sort of amped myself up in a way that is, you know, uh, uh, meaningful, tangible, slightly erotic.
Everett	A lot. Erotic.
Andrew	Fully erotic. As you know. Max eroticism here tonight. How are you? Uh, I'm not, kind of a weird day. You ever have one of those days where you're just in a funk and it doesn't matter what you do, you just can't break out of it. Yes. I had nothing to do today. My sole responsibility was pick up children from school, take my kid to Jiu Jitsu and return him home safely. Did that happen? Well, all those things occurred, but that was all I had to accomplish today, because yesterday I had a super productive day, knocked out my weekend to do list, but today I was just in a funk, just one of those days, didn't matter. It was like bored and angry watching television, bored and angry drinking beer and watching television. Angry golden girl. I was like, man, what the hell? So I just had kind of one of those weird days, and then I had like And we talk about this. I get writer's block in the worst ways when I'm trying to plan episodes and I'll get like, I'll have like a bunch of ideas flowing. I'm like, eh, it's not quite right. I don't really feel like doing that. And then I'll get one bad idea. And I don't mean just like a bad idea. I mean like, no, this just won't work. We can't make an episode out of this. And then that's all I have. That's it. That's the end of the line. And then my day is spent ruminating on this one bad fucking idea. And I'm like, all right, new idea, new idea. What if I do this bad fucking idea again? And I'm stuck on it. And it's just this. So it was just a, it was a day.
Everett	Yeah. It's interesting. I've thought about this a little bit. You and I are different in the way, you know, it's a good compliment to one another, but we're different in the way that we work on, on show topics. Right. Um, I think I tend to get sort of, I tend to get stuck at the first step, which is, you know, white whiteboarding or whatever. Not that there's no literal whiteboard you guys. Uh,
Andrew	We have crayons on a wall. My wife has goof off and that's kind of how we deal with this at our house.
Everett	Uh, but I think you tend to whiteboard better than I do. Just sort of like random idea. And oftentimes you're like, you'll give me five ideas and I'm like, those are all terrible. And then we make one or even two of them oftentimes into really good episodes. I think that when you whiteboard, I'm able to sort of dig into the issues and you know, flesh the episodes out a little bit. maybe a little bit more, you get that writer's block where you're like, here's where I'm at. This is what I'm thinking. I'm like, I think that's an incredible idea and I wish I'd thought about it, but this is what I'd like to do to make a difference.
Andrew	Yeah, no. And I appreciate that complimentary value. Cause when I get that writer's block, I just get angry. I mean, I sent the group a chat or the group chat a message today. I was like, this is my, this is my list of ideas. One idea. And I, I'd very seriously been, been, uninterrupted thinking about it for hours, plural hours.
Everett	So this is what we have for you tonight. Andrew, I've got a couple questions for you. Do me. One, have you been playing Subnautica, the video game?
Andrew	I have, both with and without cheats activated. Oh, you've activated cheats. I activated cheats I activated the cheats pretty early in the game. Uh, you know, in that 30 minute wait time when you're waiting for the, for your rescue ship to arrive, no spoilers, but you're enjoying it. Yeah, I think I maybe ran at its course.
Unknown	Okay.
Andrew	Okay. It was 15 bucks. So I was like perfectly pleased with the amount of money I spent against like the 15 hours that I have enjoyment that I've gotten out of it.
Everett	We'll have to talk about it more you and me, but that's going to, this is a pending Uh, this is a pending other thing for me. I'm not ready for it to be another thing, but I'm previewing another thing. Uh, the second question is, did you, were, were you the recipient recipient of any negative feedback? Were you personally, did you receive any negative feedback from last week's episode? I know the answer because I know you are completely disengaged from any form of social media.
Andrew	However, well, you were pretty mean.
Everett	Uh, no. Should we have? You know, we did. And we did on a specific issue. Last week's episode was all about what we hoped to see for the watch industry, specifically in 2022. But really, all of those things were sort of long term goals.
Andrew	Just some changes, some broad strokes, improvements, what we perceive as improvements.
Everett	In doing so, I mentioned Jason Lim and Hallios. Oh, yeah. And I will tell you, Jason Lim is, I don't know, I don't know But Hallios and Jason Lim, they've got an army.
Andrew	You have to be really committed if you're willing to wait three years for a watch.
Everett	And so I think I made some comments. I probably wasn't being very careful about the words I was saying or how I was saying them, because for me, the point was kind of singular. And I'll clarify my point now. I would like is a return to modularity in the industry. And specifically, the point was the reason Jason Lim even came up in this context was because he's a fantastic watch designer. And how crazy, how cool would it be to have a handful of sort of people who were capital D designing watches? That was the point of what I, what I said. The problem is I didn't say that. I said other things and the other things, and we're like six beers in, we're a little drunk, like, come on. The other thing burned some cookies. So, uh, I think I suggested, or even perhaps just said, Jason Lim's a terrible businessman. That's not true. Jason Lim, I'm sure, is a fantastic businessman. And I'm sure I said this when we were recording, but I don't think that his goals as a business owner are the same as my goals as a general consumer. And so that's fair and that's fine. We're always really clear on this show that the brand owner's goals and the brand owner's vision for the business is really sort of singular and unique to that brand owner and or brand owners. And we don't get any say over that. So I don't think Jason Lim's a bad businessman. In fact, quite the opposite is true. He's clearly doing what he loves and wants to do. I don't, I suspect, I don't know this, but I suspect that he's have zero problem feeding his family. He's got watches that are in demand. maybe the most in-demand watches. And so if I said anything that suggested anything other than that, I take it back. Full retraction. The whole thing was, this is the point, and this is the last thing I'll say about this. Jason Lim, I think, is the best watch designer on earth right now. And for example, I would love to see someone like Jason Lim become a dedicated watch designer. And not someone, someones. I'd like to see people designing watches, whether that's for multiple companies or one or two companies or even for themselves, I guess, but that sort of misses the point of this. I'd like to see a more modular industry with design and manufacture. And I think by way of splitting up the duties and having watch designers design watches, we might get better watches overall. So that was my point. Anything else I say, delete, delete, delete.
Andrew	I think the American market is kind of primed for that. I think we're doing this thing where we're, where we in the micro brand industry, and that's not we, I think we is the American micro brand industry. You're trying to recreate the Swiss industry of doing everything stove piped. And our company does these things and it's all in house and it's all our stuff and we don't talk to other people. And I know brands are really, really collaborative. That's, that's not what I mean.
Everett	But it's interesting that you say that because that's not, but we're not,
Andrew	We're not the Swiss watch industry in America.
Everett	And that's not how the Swiss watch industry started either. In fact, the reason the Swiss watch industry was successful is because of. But it's not how it is now. Modularity. Yeah.
Andrew	And that's the thing. And I think, I think what we see now in China, I think we see in Chinese manufacturing and Seagull's a perfect example of this. Seagull's not one company. Seagull's on many companies, all kind of operating and doing the same shit under the same name. but they're not all doing exactly the same thing. It's a collaborative effort all under the same umbrella. And I think, I think, I don't necessarily want to see that in the American watch industry, but I think the American watch industry is really primed for some really cool collaborations that drive the industry of horology forward for the United States as opposed to just individual brands.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, I think that that's right. You know, we'll, we'll see what happens. Obviously we're just hoping So anyway, we'll leave it at that.
Andrew	That's what I hope for 2023. We'll address it again in 11 months.
Everett	I just wanted to apologize to anybody I offended, including the fine folks at Hallios Watches. You've got a totally amazing watch brand, probably one of the coolest watch brands on earth.
Andrew	I mean, let's just be... There's a reason people are willing to wait. I mean, there's something to be said for that.
Everett	And so zero part of me wants to take anything away from that brand or what it is. I do wish it was easier to buy the watches, but that may actually be a bad thing, right? It's butterfly effect or whatever.
Andrew	So it's not a bad thing to be able to buy your watches. And I will stand by that. It bugs me if I want to buy a watch and I can't buy it. And Everett's muted me and I don't blame him. Went on to a little bit of a, of a, of a tantrum.
Everett	I did not mute you.
Andrew	You did. I, I went away in my headset.
Everett	Oh, I, you know, I, it's because I soloed, uh, I soloed myself for a moment, but you'll come through on the, You'll come through on the master. You don't have to worry about you. I stand by it. You just solo me the whole time, and then all you'll hear is me.
Andrew	All I hear? Oh, I hate this.
Everett	I hate it a lot. So topic, we've already been talking about watches, but we're going to actually talk about watches today. We are. And this is maybe a bit of a reminiscence for me, I think this topic is.
Andrew	I think even for me, this is kind of a hard Episode to title.
Everett	Yeah, I was just I was just actually gonna ask you because we I think we know what we're talking about But I don't think we know what we're gonna call it.
Andrew	Well, you certainly didn't give me any notes And you were supposed to so I don't know what we're talking about Yeah, so today is kind of a and a mishmash and and it's a little bit of a Part two of our recent State of Seiko conversation that we had with Will, in conjunction with revisiting the starter watch.
Everett	Yeah, I think what we titled this episode is how to help your friend who knows nothing about watches buy his or her first watch, depending on what he or she wants. Part three. Part three. Yeah, that's a working title.
Andrew	Well, we're going to do we're going to do flashback episodes periodically and give you parts one and two. Not in order in the future. This is like O.G. George Lucas. No, this is some J.J. Abrams shit. So, yeah, tonight we're talking about the starter watch, and I think the starter watch with the backdrop of the hypothesis, Seiko is not it anymore.
Everett	And perhaps a context, a hypothetical context of, because it's not a starter watch for you, you're listening to like a super obscure. You're listening to a watch podcast. So you don't need a starter watch, probably. And if you do, welcome. But, but, you know, how do you, how do you help your friend who, you know, maybe owned a Timex Weekender for a while and then the strap got weird and rotty and he got rid of it?
Andrew	Or maybe it got ripped off of him because it grew to be a part of his wrist.
Everett	How do you help that guy? How, how, how do you help that guy? And, and we've talked about this before, right? more specifically than I think we're going to today. We've talked about it in context of, you know, how do you evaluate what they want? Obviously you got to ask price, you got to ask sort of style, what kind of watches are interesting to you? Um, you know, do you value, do you value, uh, you know, something that'll last forever? Do you value something that's going to be easy? Do you value something that's interesting? So that's kind of not what we're talking about. Although we'll certainly touch on that today, right?
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	I mean, is this a watch that you're buying and willing to store inside of your body? That kind of heirloom level? Yeah. Or are you willing to let it break? Yeah. Or are you going to replace it when the battery dies?
Everett	That's right. I got to be honest. Shrouded tuna is my choice if you're stuffing. So. Really?
Andrew	You got to go big. Yeah. No, I get that. I get that.
Everett	It's the shroud. It's not the size. It's the shroud.
Andrew	I think all the stuff that's going to get stuck in the shroud. You ruined it by putting it inside of you. So that's kind of the context and the backdrop to this conversation. And for me, I think that the two people you're talking to when you're talking about a starter watch. And I think there's only two people. One of them is interested in getting into watches. They've kind of caught the bug they're interested, this isn't going to be a hit it and quit it kind of thing. And the other person just wants to buy a watch and knows that you are informed and they're seeking your advice on the watch that they're going to buy today and where for a period of time until they replace it, it breaks, they lose it, take your pick. And that's, I think a pretty clear delineation. So we'll start there. We'll start at that divergent spot. The dude who's getting into watches, And the dude who just wants to buy a watch.
Everett	Yeah, I think that's right. Uh, maybe I think the way we've set this up kind of in our research is just kind of talk about like what, what are the options, right? So why don't we just, we've got this list of options. There's, I don't know, I think six or seven sort of broad categories and we're going to stuff things in those categories because we're stuffing tonight. Uh, let's see. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven categories.
Andrew	And can I start with a quick premise? Yeah. The whole premise of this is that it's not Seiko anymore. You know, the, the SKX used to be a really good option. It's not anymore.
Everett	Yeah. The hangers on of the, of the sort of late eighties, nineties, two thousands Seiko, um, sort of maintaining, carrying the torch for the mechanical, the low end mechanical watch industry. Those torch bearing watches, or perhaps those torches as they were, have now alit the flame and they're no longer needed and they have been thusly retired.
Andrew	Yeah. And I think five years ago, your options, for the starter watch. And you could give this universally to the guy who wants to buy one watch or the guy who's getting into watches. Mako, SKX, SNK. There's a, there's a couple of peripherals.
Everett	Yeah. Well, there was a whole like website dedicated to Seiko five iterations, right? There was a whole website. Like it was called the Seiko five finder or something like that where you could like type in the things you want and it would say, you can get this Seiko 5. And there's like hundreds of watches, hundreds of SKUs on there. And they weren't, you know, sometimes in stock and sometimes not. I think by about 2015, 2016, when we were getting into this, they were, they were drying up. But even just a little bit before that, there was like a hundred plus Seiko 5s that you could pick up on eBay or Amazon or whatever for between $40 and $100.
Andrew	But those are the three. And those are the three that we really cut our teeth on. And in that delta, we've had an explosion of independent brands, small brands, micro brands, boutique brands, call them what you will. However you identify. Exactly. Who are offering way more than triple, quadruple bang for your buck than the hundred dollar SNK. at that three to $500 price point. And that's a big pill to swallow for somebody buying their first watch, which is kind of hard to reconcile, but the bang for the buck is there. Yeah. And that's kind of the backdrop of our conversation is, is The proliferation of the $300 to $500 micro brand watch has made the Mako, the Kamasu, the SKX made itself obsolete, but the SNK. There's a place for them, but they're not my go-to, you're buying a watch, this is my recommendation anymore.
Everett	Yeah. Well, why don't we start there? Why don't we start with the Seiko and Orient options that are available? Because as we've discussed, the idea that Seiko's entry level has disappeared, I think has been thoroughly debunked by us on our own show. You know, a Seiko Turtle is today $350, which is roughly the same price as Seiko Turtle was when it came out at a hundred bucks or whatever.
Andrew	The Dress KX is available, not as pro-specced, but it's still available and well-specced.
Everett	You can still get the quote-unquote $100 Seiko. It's just more than that now because of this thing called inflation that nobody likes and we have to deal with.
Andrew	Inflation doesn't exist in the watch world. Yeah. I still pay MSRP for all my Rolex.
Everett	But there are options, right? Rolexes? Or Rolex? There are still options for the entry level. You said the 5KX. We've got the Dress KX, which is still... Sex KX. The Sex KX is still like just a totally killer watch, right? You can still get, like I said, a Tuna. Which is maybe the best bang for your buck. Not a Tuna, a Turtle.
Andrew	Yeah, that's maybe the best bang for your buck in the Seiko portfolio right now.
Everett	perhaps yeah um and and then orient is still got a bucket load of sub 300 and actually sub 200 you know 200 meter no shit dive watches with their orient case or their mako case right so the mako ray and more recently the kamasu and they've just introduced a new a kamasu 2 and so you're still getting hollow end links You're still getting stamped clasps.
Andrew	And 22 millimeter lug width and just some oddities.
Everett	Make those 22 millimeter lugs, which is standard. I think it's an oddity. I don't think so. I think most dive watches are 22. It's only us weird micro brown guys that do 20 on everything.
Andrew	Yeah, but then you move into the Bambino, which is a 21. They just have oddities. Orient does 9 out of 10 things right on every single watch. And that last thing is an important error.
Everett	Oriented, as it were. I did not come up with that. No, I know. Yeah, I did not. So, that is still, I think today, that's a viable option. So, you know, the first question anybody, someone says, hey, what should I get? The very first question that should be out of your mouth is, what's your budget?
Andrew	Yeah, how much are you going to pay? And what's your actual budget? Not what are you comfortable paying? What's your actual budget?
Everett	And so if they say to me, a hundred bucks, I don't know, a hundred bucks, I'm hearing 250 because I'm going to tell them why I think a hundred bucks is probably not a good budget. Now, if this is like a high school student or a college kid, I don't know any of those.
Andrew	An SNK. You shouldn't know. And it's good that you don't.
Everett	I maybe reconsider that. But if this is like an adult that is well employed and, uh, you know, they just think a watch costs $100, and I'll tell them why I think a watch costs more than $100. But, that's, you know, so different, already, different advice for different people who ask this question.
Andrew	I pitch Christopher Ward to a lot of people who are like, my world, like they make a similar amount of money to me, they live a similar life, Christopher Ward's one of my first pitches.
Everett	But if they tell me $100, I'm scratching Christopher Ward off. Yeah, and it's gone, he's gone. Chris, we'll see you next week. Sorry, Mike. You know, and so that's, that's something to start with. This is still a viable place to be. The Orient Mako Rei Kamasu is still a viable option. Super viable. And, and they're both great brands. I think Seiko is a really well-known brand and that can maybe both work for it and against it in this context.
Andrew	I think it works against it in this context. And I think Seiko's value, the fact that people recognize Seiko from its billboards in sports marketing, it's a little bit too invasive marketing. People know it. They know they can't buy a tag because they looked at tag and they're like, oh, that's expensive. And then they looked at Seiko next and they're like, oh, I can afford Seiko's. And if you're doing that, you could also probably afford a tag. Let's be real here. But Seiko works against it because you think you're getting more than what you're getting. You're getting that Seiko logo. Some of their watch options, you're getting some really good bang for your buck. But I think in the last 10 years, the bang for your buck out of most Seikos is eclipsed by the bang for your buck you're getting out of other brands.
Everett	I'm sorry. I actually totally agree with your whole take here. I think the reason the Seiko brand maybe works against itself in this context is because This person's likely to know of Seiko. They're likely to associate Seiko with cheap mall watches for good reason. They are likely to have a feeling that a Seiko is pedestrian. And I don't think that the average watch newbie is thinking about bang for your buck or any of the other shit you said. I think that the reason it works against them is because- So you disagree? I very much disagree.
Andrew	You told me, I'm sorry. I totally agree.
Everett	Oh, well, I said the wrong word because what I meant to say is I think you're stupid and I hate you.
Andrew	Abtract. Which is why I was so confused. I was like, you're, you're, you agreed, but you're being really, really critical of everything I just said.
Everett	Makes me think you don't. Something about all the words you're saying and the way you're saying them makes me think you don't agree with me.
Andrew	Sorry, we're, we're just, we're hanging out and we're talking watches tonight guys. We're going to be a little bit off track and I'm not really sorry, but bear with us here. We've got something to say.
Everett	But I think Orient's still a good alternative. I think Orient comes in a little bit less than most Seiko's these days. Yes. Um, I think that you get a little bit more sort of, I hate to use this term because I, can I tell you something? The, the, the brand Orient, makes me a little uncomfortable. But I do think when I started getting into watches, the word orient, um, when I started to get into watches, it felt a little exotic to me. And I still think that when you're introducing this brand to people who maybe have never heard of it, they certainly haven't heard of it. It was a combination of words there. I don't like, so I'm sorry to you at home, but it's got this like
Andrew	English coat of arms lion logo that makes it feel like it's super more Marco Polo feeling right a little bit yeah I can I can dig that it just it's a it's a there's some conflict there yeah I mean especially because I grew up in a world where it's like you probably shouldn't say like things like oriental or whatever right unless you know exactly what you mean by that uh I'm not gonna
Everett	how to change the name of the brand at this point, because I have no power to do so. No. But I will acknowledge that it makes me uncomfortable. So that is still an option. And I think it's a really good option. And I think depending on who is asking, it's something you should consider. You probably got to be a little bit more careful with things like the Bambino or, you know, any of sort of the big cool orient divers, but certainly the Mako Reikamasu. Recommend that every day. If they want, if they got $200 to spend on a dive watch, get them on a Komatsu.
Andrew	What's it, the M5 or the G5, their titanium dive line? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about.
Everett	That's fucking dope.
Andrew	But they're expensive. They're, they're, they're more expensive than that. But if you can get somebody into the door, I think their budget goes up when they see that cool factor of what you can get in that Delta. of the price range because because the orient ray kamasu lineup is great and then you move over to citizen citizen also has some really great options and you also introduce the eco drive technology which i think is a is a cool factor that even people who don't appreciate watches appreciate the solar charging is great people like that and they've got killer options in that sub $300 range. Some of them are a little toolie, like not, not douchey, but just like tool watchy, but you've got things like the Chandler, you've got things like the, um, what's their just standard dive. Just the Eco drive. Yeah. They just, yeah, the pro diver. I wanted to call it the pro tough, but the pro tough is wrong because the pro tough is it's a different one. It's a whole different watch. It's just their pro diver.
Everett	Also cool watch.
Andrew	Very cool watch. But you've got those options in these big brands in that sub $300 range. So if somebody says $100, I'm going to present them a $5,600, an SNK, and say, these are your actual options. But if you're willing to go for $300, you've got a lot more.
Everett	Well, and we should say at this point, my impression when I started getting into watches was that Citizen was not really engaged in making mechanical watches. Obviously, Citizen as a company makes mechanical watch movements. Probably my very favorite movement on the face of the earth is made by Citizen. But Citizen's not doing a lot of branded watches with mechanical movements. They've really leaned into quartz technology. They've got a number of very, very good and discreet quartz technologies that are some of the best in the world. EcoDrive is, you know, I don't know how it compares spec wise to Seiko solar or anybody else's solar technology, but it is the gold standard, right? They've got obviously their, their, um, you know, high precision quartz movements, um, you know, VHP stuff. And so Citizen felt to me like a quartz brand, a cool quartz brand, but a quartz brand. So that's something to note. And it's something I would think about if someone was asking me before I recommended Citizen, I'd want to know, is this a person looking for their first, you know, mechanical watch? Are they asking me about a mechanical watch? What do they want to get out of the industry? I don't think with a few, you know, exceptions, maybe the Fugu being one of them, which is, which is fits into that sort of Mako a turtle conversation. But by and large, I think Citizen, it doesn't provide a ton of options for someone who wants to get into the mechanical side of watches.
Andrew	It doesn't. And also for somebody who's wanting to appear watch nerdy, creates a... Citizen has a foot in the fashion watch world. And that's a bit of a hurdle that we as watch people have totally overcome because they do some really cool watch shit. But somebody who is just being introduced to wanting to be into cool watch shit is gonna have trouble overcoming.
Everett	It's the same problem I discussed with Seiko, but maybe magnified a little bit, right?
Andrew	And Fossil's another great example. I mean, they do some really great stuff in Rose Gold. What the fuck are you talking about? But I think a lot of people And even I at times view Citizen as a fashion brand.
Everett	Yeah, you might associate it with a brand like Fossil because when we were kids, you'd buy them at the same place.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	Right. On the same spinning tower. I mean, maybe still today, so. Okay, next up. Next up, let's move into the next category because I think this one sort of, I think we segue into this one. What about the random sort of Japanese or Swiss quartz watches? So there's a lot of watches from major brands, Citizen, Seiko, certainly Tissot, maybe to a lesser extent a brand like Longines, a much lesser extent. Victorinox. Victorinox, that's right. So what I call, what I've grouped together in our show notes for today as, you know, the random Swiss-Japanese sort of prestige cachet brand Quartz watches. How do you feel about recommending something like that to someone who's asking you, a watch guy, for advice on buying their maybe first sort of special hobbyist watch?
Andrew	I'm all about it. I think, and we know this, everyone knows this about me. I like quartz. I'm totally down with quartz. You can't tell me that quartz is soulless. You can't tell me it's, you can't, tell me anything to detract from my appreciation of courts. And I think that you, you, you listening right now, under-appreciate courts movements. Now that it's sunken. There's some really great options out there. And the first thing that comes to mind for me is something like VEYR. VEYR's courts is coming in at Under 200 bucks, I think. Yeah, I think I think they're coming in like 165. I could be wrong. But I think they're south of 200 bucks. And who cares if it's mechanical or quartz? I think for the first watch, you got to have something you're going to wear.
Everett	Yeah. A11 military S5 is 170 bucks.
Andrew	Yeah. It's got to be something you're going to wear, something that's going to bring that appreciation, something that's going to going to cultivate and grow that appreciation. And for somebody who that's just the one watch they want to have and they want to pay less than 200 bucks, I don't know that you can do any better than the non-Fotinad Veyr.
Everett	Yeah, I think I think Veyr is is outside of the context of this particular category a little bit because they're more micro, but they sort of do fit in that. I'm thinking more of watches like perhaps a Quartz Visidate or perhaps a Quartz Maxbill. I know when I was sort of getting into watches, I looked at the Quartz Maxbill a lot.
Andrew	And I think it's 350?
Everett	Yeah, it's in that range. Yeah, it's in that range. And I probably today if I were to buy a Maxbill, and I might, I love that watch, I'd go, I'd probably go mechanical. At the time I was thinking, this is a great watch from a great company and I can afford it. And so I think that there are some options there. Again, I think you probably need to, just like with Citizen, you need to sort of understand what it is that they're looking for.
Andrew	Because some people just are not going to care about the legacy and the heritage and the story of the brand.
Everett	There's a certain aspect of this hobby that we have that is, that lies in the mechanical bits, these interesting, atypical, even anachronistic, a word that I like to use when talking about watches, right? Um, that aspect of the hobby is, isn't powerful. And so, you know, have that conversation, figure out, do you want a mechanical watch? Because this is the downsides of a mechanical watch. Uh, you know, you're going to have to wind it. It's going to stop running when you don't wear it. Um, it's going to break in seven to 10 years and you're going to either have to throw it away or pay more than the watch is worth the services. So there's all these things.
Andrew	Or you can sell it to me and I will buy it. Yeah. Right. And then I'll get serviced, but I'm not going to pay for full price. Yeah.
Everett	Right. Or, you know, you swap it. If it's an NH, you swap them a minute. But, but that might not be something that that person cares about. And you know, You just have to sort of assess what's their pathway if they're wanting to be more enthusiastic to conjugate the term.
Andrew	Go ahead. I also think Bulova in that conversation and that really affordable realm in courts, and I have no issue saying, okay, you know what, this is going to be your one watch, which to me, if it's your one watch, it doesn't matter if it's an automatic or courts movement. It's going to require some sort of human intervention at some point in the distant future. For me, I prefer a mechanical or automatic just to sit in my watch box because nothing is happening to it once it's exhausted its power supply and just sits. I wear them every once in a while.
Everett	They get wound, their power supply fills up, the exhaust... The lubrication is drying off all the pivot points a little bit, but you need to have a little watch winder.
Andrew	Well, no, I store my watches in a hermetically sealed oil vat. Yeah, yeah. In cosmoline, that's what all my watches are stored in. So then I just spray them off and... But that's for the one watch guy. Courts are automatic. I mean, automatic, cool. You know, you recommend a see-through case back and, you know, cool. You get to see the spinny thing.
Everett	Yeah. Well, so let's talk about that. Let's talk about that because that's, I think this is a nice place to acknowledge that some people, some people who ask you about their first watch are going to say, I have a hundred bucks to spend. They're going to more or less mean that they have a hundred bucks to spend. So let's, let's, you know, open it up to, you know, maybe 150 and, and furthermore, I think watches are so cool and I really want to get into mechanical watches. What do we recommend for that guy? Boktok. I think maybe. Yeah. I mean, so there's some options, right?
Andrew	There's a bucket of options coming from Vostok. There's a lot of options elsewhere.
Everett	We've got the ones that come to mind immediately. Pro Diver. Yep. Invicta. I bet that'd be the Invicta Pro Diver. Uh, Vostok. Mm-hmm. Still some Seikos. Mm-hmm. Um, certainly some Orients, depending on what style they want. It gets a little hard. Um, and then you've got a number of Chinese and Korean watches. what I'm going to call like factory brands, um, that are making watches, if not under a hundred at or very close to a hundred that are spec'd like, well, spec'd like the watch that they were supposed to make and didn't put the dial in. Oftentimes spec'd very much like a watch that costs three to four times as much, if not a lot more. Yeah. As between those options, How do you kind of figure out what you recommend? Or do you just sort of say, here's all the options?
Andrew	I think you say, here's all the options and you let them roll the dice. And I think I really weigh heavily towards those Chinese and Korean factory brands and say, find the one you like, send it to me, like just for a sign off. But I don't know that you're going to go wrong with any of those. Because the majority of them are going to use some form of a seagull movement, which... I think many of them are coming with NH movements. You're going to see a lot of NHs, but I think you're going to see a lot of seagull movements. And you're going to really get exposed to a lot of cool shit on your trek down that rabbit hole. So let's say... And I think that exposure is going to actually increase your budget.
Everett	Let's say I'm asking you about watches and we kind of figure out, I've got about 80 bucks to spend. I want an automatic dive watch. I want something that's not super lame, interesting. You show me Vostok, I'm like, fuck yeah, this is cool as shit. Wes Anderson used those. Oh my gosh, I want one.
Andrew	Steve Zizzo wore one. What are you going to tell me? Go to the Amazon and find the amphibia that you like. Are you going to warn me at all about Vostok?
Everett	No, because I think I'm going to warn you once you get it. I think that the positions are reversed. I might warn you a little bit.
Andrew	I think I warn you after the fact. I think you get it. You're excited about it.
Everett	And I'm gonna say, look, now that you have this, you have it now that you've spent your entire watch budget.
Andrew	There are some quirks to this watch that are going to be unlike other watches, but also familiar and the same. They're just going to be different.
Everett	So you're, you're taking the power to make the decision out of your friend's hand.
Andrew	They made the decision when they said they had 80 bucks. They made that choice. Not me. I didn't make that choice for him. You give me 50 more bucks and then we got other options. But if you want $80 for a, for an automatic dive watch, that's, that's it. If you even have 40 more dollars, I'm going to say, go to am diver and customize your Vostok. It's 120 bucks for a dive watch. an automatic dive watches, that's a tough sell. Yeah. Because if you, if you say you have 80 bucks for a dive watch, I'm going to say Marlon all day.
Everett	Yeah. One of those 50 bucks.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	50, 60. Yeah. What about Timex, Andrew?
Andrew	Timex. Timex. You got to have a little bit bigger budget, I think, with Timex because there's a lot of options in the, in the courts world for Timex?
Everett	Hmm. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the, the, the Weekender is oftentimes, I mean, it's probably the most sort of common analog watch you see on people's wrists, just generally speaking, right? Saw one today? Yeah. You see them every day. Every day you see somebody wearing a Weekender, but that's not really an enthusiast watch, right? If you can get it at Target, but it can be. Yeah. Yeah, it's an enigma. That's like a tier three. It's like when you've bought your first... It's teenager watch people. When you've bought your first four-figure Kickstarter pre-order that you had to wait eight months for, then you can get... Yeah, that's why it's like your teenage rebellious years.
Andrew	Like, fuck the man in the institution and spending money on a watch. I'm gonna get a Weekender Big Easy Reader. Timex is doing some really cool shit, and they're dropping a lot of really cool, like the Snyders that they're dropping, they're doing some really cool iterations of their mechanical movements.
Everett	Yeah, the new galleys, the new Giorgio Galli, I think I said galley, I'm sure it's galley, the new galleys, the S1s, 38 millimeters. That's a smoking hot watch. They're 450 bucks though. So all of a sudden, we're in the next level, right?
Andrew	And I think you could do better than that watch at $450. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't seen one. I haven't seen one in person, obviously. They look pretty great. They look great, but I think you can do better.
Everett	You've got Marlins. You've got Marlins and Waterberries. Automatic Waterberries and Marlins. You've got the MK versions.
Andrew	$200, $250. They do have aluminum cases in the MKs, but they're good looking anodized aluminum MK cases. There's a lot there if you're not looking for an automatic or mechanical movement. And the NaviOceans, I don't care what you say, I love the NaviOcean and the Navi, or yeah, the NaviOcean and it's the, they have another one. NaviXL, which is 41. It's the mega, but. It's not that big, so. It's mega for my little svelte wrists.
Everett	Yeah. You know, I do think you're right though. You're spending a little bit more, all of a sudden you're sort of out of you know, especially when people think of Timex and you think of the, the resin case, the target counter, you know, watch or Snoopy. Yeah. Right. Well, you can, I think Timex right now you can buy a Snoopy Marlin for 260 bucks or something like that. Right.
Andrew	So, or 23. Right. That's I think the, I think what Timex really needs to overcome is they do, They just make some weird choices. They're not doing what I'd hoped they'd do.
Everett	I think that's right. Yeah, I think that's right. We mentioned it briefly, but what about an Invicta ProDiver?
Andrew	That's it. That's all the way. Invicta ProDiver you can get on Amazon every once in a while for like $40.
Everett	Often, what, $80 to $100? Yeah, $80 to $100.
Andrew	There's going to be some modifications that you're probably going to want to do. you know, the Invicta stamp on the side, maybe number one. But if you don't care, the Invicta ProDiver is about as baller a diver as a diver comes. It's spec'd right. It wears great. Its design is familiar.
Everett	Yeah. I mean, they really just designed maybe the most ubiquitous watch in history.
Andrew	Yeah. And they said, Hey, we'll sell this to you for $80 to $100 and then about six times a year we'll sell it to you for $50. They're comfortable, they look good, they run well. That's maybe it for me. If you're looking for the sub $200 no shit dive watch that you're actually going to use and wear that you kind of want a little bit of a banger. I think that's the one.
Everett	Can we talk about a couple of watches that I generally don't recommend to people who are buying their first watch, but I might recommend to someone who's looking for something very specific. How much money do they have? The first watch I think of is a G-Shock. I generally don't recommend, so two things are true. One, I think G-Shock is the coolest watch on the face of the earth. I've got several of them. It's just It's just fantastic, right? G-Shock is just amazing.
Andrew	It's amazing. Yeah, they've kind of transcended watches.
Everett	And so I recommend if you've got multiple watches, you own a G-Shock. Maybe even if you only own one watch, you own a G-Shock. With that said, if someone comes to me and says, I want to buy a watch, I don't think G-Shock's the right answer usually. And in fact, when I hear people You know, even people on other podcasts, I'm thinking of one person in particular says, just tell him to get a G-Shock. You know, I don't think that's the right answer in this context. I doubt very seriously that that's what that person's looking for.
Andrew	It's because it's too good of a choice. It's because it will sour you to all other watches in the future. You'll get a G-Shock. I'm like, I don't need anything else. And you're right. When you say that you don't need anything else.
Everett	I think it's maybe because that's not what they want. If, if that person wants to know about watches, That's not what they want. No. Another watch I generally don't recommend to people is the Casio Marlin. And it's not because it's not a great watch. It's a great watch. It's not because it's quartz, because as we've demonstrated here, that doesn't matter.
Andrew	That doesn't affect us.
Everett	We want to know what they want and that might matter. But generally speaking, it doesn't matter. I think it's because one brand, right? If someone's coming to me and they want to know about watches and I tell them to go buy a Casio, I, you know, it takes away from your credibility. That may be a little bit. And furthermore, I just don't think that's what they want. They, they don't want a Casio. This person doesn't want, they can find one without me, get a Casio down the road. So buy something to cut your teeth and then try that Marlon take a flyer on the Amazon prime day Marlon or whatever. Right. Um, I generally don't recommend those. We've got one more big category we have to talk about it.
Andrew	Oh yeah, kind of the premise of our whole discussion.
Everett	What about microbrands, Andrew? Do you ever find yourself recommending microbrands to first-time watch buyers? I do. And... You've already said that Christopher Ward is kind of your go-to rec for people in your age and economic bracket.
Andrew	100%. It's my go-to because they have Almost as many SKUs as Seiko. Maybe not quite, but yeah. It sure seems like it. They've got great sizing. Customs is a bitch. We'll pass that. They've got affordable, no shit, attractive watches. And that's kind of my go-to. It's like, hey, this is an off the beaten path. cool watch. It's not just a good watch, but it's also cool. And it has those two things nesting together for that first-time buyer of somebody who can afford to spend between $600 and $1,000 on a watch.
Everett	Let's say hypothetically, just for a moment, Christopher Ward is not a microbrand.
Andrew	They're not exactly, but they're also not not.
Everett	So I wouldn't have to have the conversation, but let's just say hypothetically for a moment. What about a true, a true micro-brand? Maybe someone's been around for as many as five or six years or a brand that's, you know, maybe been around for a year or two. How do you feel about recommending one of those types of brands?
Andrew	I go places like Notice who are in that $400 range, almost universally. Notice, Trasca, Laurier. Trasca, Brew, Laurier. I float the Astro Banks out there and say, Hey, if you want to go something a little bit different that you're never going to see anybody else wearing, not because they're not cool, but because they just, they're just not big enough that you're, you're, if you've seen Astro Banks in the wild, fuck, that's awesome. Right. That's, that's some cool shit. Right. I go Astro Banks. I float those kind of options out there. I float Orion out there. I float these, Obscure is not the right word, but they're obscure for the non-watch wearer.
Everett	Relatively obscure, yeah.
Andrew	Nobody knows these names outside of people like us. And I float those out there and I say, look at these designs. They're similar. They're familiar. You recognize them, but you don't know what they are. And I float those. If people are willing to float a little bit more money, and I say, also, you're getting, you might be spending five to $700 on this watch.
Everett	That's the main takeaway, right? This person's got to be comfortable spending you know, that person's going to have to go home and have a conversation with their husband and or wife. And that husband and or wife is going to say, what the fuck are you talking about spending $600 on a watch? So that's got to be something that is not a difficult proposition.
Andrew	I think if I'm going to make this recommendation, Bertucci is one that I float. If I know that there's going to be too cheap. Yeah. Interesting. A lot of people I'm around are like a titanium watch is going to fit. And I think Bertucci watches are well designed. I think they've got good titanium options. I think they do some cool shit and they're very functionally designed.
Everett	Yeah. No, I mean, it's a great, it's a momentum is another brand that's sort of in that space, right? Mostly quartz beaters, titanium utility watches. Yeah. In your industry.
Andrew	That's probably a older is one that I float. Uh, But yeah, people are willing to spend a little bit of money. I, the, the bang for your buck, I think you're getting way more out of way more out of a $400 notice than you'll get out of any sub $800 Seiko out of any orient. Out of any of these big brands that we've talked about, you're getting more out of any one Notice, any one Orion.
Everett	And you're well before sort of the diminishing returns of this purchase have set in, right? Yeah. At this price range, at a $400 Sector or a $500 Neptune Laurier, and actually that has two separate people have come to me and said, I want to buy a watch. I want to buy something special. I've had, you know, I've had a Shinola.
Andrew	And... And Shinola's far more expensive than that. Shinola's are ringing in between six and a thousand. That's right.
Everett	That's right. You know, one of them had a Seiko, one of them had a Shinola. You know, I kind of want to spend a little bit of money, maybe 250, 300. And I say, well, that's a weird number, right? 250, 300 is a hard number. But with that said, if we can get your budget up to 400 to 500, there's some really cool options. And both of them bought the Neptune. The Neptune's dope. Both of those people bought the Neptune. Which one? Wait, that's the standard diver from Lori. Yeah. Both of them bought that Neptune and love it. Love it. One of those, one of those people wears that Neptune almost every day. He also has a black, like a murdered out high on case five KX.
Andrew	Um, yeah, he does, but that's a weird choice to get. It's like a little Batman name, but also dope. Yeah, it's cool.
Everett	It's cool. So I think these are really feasible options. I think that you're right. I think that Laurier, Notice, those are the ones I think of most immediately. Orion's maybe a little harder. Astro Banks is definitely good, but to get into that sort of dive watch is a little bit more.
Andrew	It's just a touch more, you know. And Traska. And Traska. But also unavailable. Very unavailable. Until 2022-ish. Yeah. Very unavailable. If the ish wasn't at the end of it, I would have already bought a commuter. but it's not available and I can't buy a commuter. I almost rage bought a commuter. I went to, I went to Trasca and I said, I love this watch. I'm angry. I want this watch and I want it tomorrow. I'm willing to pay extra for shipping and it wasn't available. It bugged me. That's the whole thing. I, we could, I could do a solo whole episode on supply chain issues right now. Just, just ranting about them.
Everett	You gonna buy a watch this weekend?
Andrew	Perhaps. We'll see if the bots beat me to it. Fuck, last time I was in the payment section, I was verifying my payment and it, and you said it was stuck. Fuck you. No, god damn it. Cart hold is not a advanced technology. If the shit is in a cart, it's sold. I should not lose something out from under my feet while I'm trying to pay for it. That's some like, Black Friday, Walmart, trampling to death bullshit, and that's unacceptable in e-commerce.
Everett	I think if we've got any takeaways from this week, it's that there's tons of options, right? They're out there. And that you, as a steward of the hobby to the extent you accept any part of that mantle, you own it. You have some options and you can, I think, almost always, you can have, if you're so inclined, have a meaningful conversation with this person and get them to a place, provide them with this information that will really help them make a decision. Very, very often I see on Reddit or WatchuSeek or whatever, someone asks a pretty dumb noob question And instead of being helpful, people say things like, you're not helping us. This question has been answered a billion times. Tell us what you want. Try the search function. Like, this is fun because we can engage with the material. And there are opportunities to do that in a meaningful way if you are so inclined. So.
Andrew	Which was the impetus for us starting this podcast. It was the ask and answered responses. The response was, use the search function. Here's a link. No, no, no. I don't want their answer. I want the answer to my question. Though similar, it's different.
Everett	And furthermore, I want to talk. We're in a forum. A chat room. Right? Everybody's here to converse digitally as we do. Like, why is this a problem? Engage with these people. You know, Feel free to talk to them, figure out what kind of things they're interested in and make recommendations. That's what that person wants. That person wants recommendations. They want to understand what you know. And if you tell someone to buy a Vostok and they go look at a Vostok, they're going to know pretty quickly if it's something they might consider. And to the extent they're going to consider it, they're going to do one of two things. They're going to impulse buy it and get a super dope watch. A little weird. A little weird, but super dope watch. Or they're going to research the shit out of it and figure out exactly what dial variant they want. And they're going to have fun. So throw out the recommendations, ask questions, make the recommendation. Those are our options. We probably missed some stuff, but that's okay.
Andrew	We certainly missed some stuff. There are a thousand brands out there.
Everett	And feel totally comfortable to miss stuff. Like that's okay.
Andrew	I think that's okay. Because they're asking your opinion, so they want to know what you like.
Everett	Andrew, other things. What do you got?
Andrew	I forgot. Not really. No, I have another thing. You asked me and I'm going to do my other thing. You do whatever you want. I do. Because of America. Well, do a live. So my other thing is a preemptive. I tried a thing and thus far I'm very excited about it. We finally, I got my wife for Christmas a matching set of 23andMe. So I got each of us a tube to spit in. And I'm super excited about it. So her parents did it probably three to five years ago and loved it. And we've kind of talked about it off and on. And every year Christmas they do like a big sale, like a 30 to 50% sale. So I finally bought it this year for Christmas. How much, how much is it? Between 50 and 70, I don't recall exactly, per kit. Okay. And in the kit, it comes with really, really clear instructions on exactly what you're supposed to do. Be warned, you can't eat, drink, or do anything with your mouth. You can talk, obviously, you can exist, but you can't eat or drink anything for 30 minutes preceding your tube spitting, period. So just be aware of that. Like, don't crack open a beer and then open your kit and be like, fuck! Precisely what I did. So I just stared at this, like just freshly cracked, not even sipped on beer because I set the timer. I'm like, Hey, Google set a timer for 30 minutes. Don't eat or drink. So just don't be hungry or thirsty. You spit in your tube and it's, it's like, it takes probably a minute and a half to collect and expel. sufficient saliva to fill your tube. You close it, it's super easy. You've got to fill the tube? You fill your tube. Provide a sufficient sample. It's yucky. Okay. It's super hot looking at your wife spitting into a tiny little dip spitter. It was something. But then they give you this option to spend like the next three hours taking surveys. we did because what else would you do? So we're just on our phones taking all these surveys of like your individual tastes, your preferences, your characteristics, and it kind of creates a, their pool for things. But then you can track your samples process. So I got a notification by email today that my sample has returned to their lab and they're going to, it's in the queue now to process. But I'm like strangely excited. Strangely excited enough that, um, last week I talked about, we had our executive meeting to talk about vacations and stuff, and we're going to have our vacation or our executive retreat here in a couple of weeks. Um, but during our executive meeting, we kind of like laid out some vacations and we almost simultaneously suggested a 23 and me destination. So for both of us, you know, there's going to be something in there because you got to compare against your oral traditions of your family. You're like, Oh, I'm 90% this or that. And it turns out you're not even a little. Um, so we unanimously decided there's going to be something surprising in either one of ours, genealogy or genetic makeup. And we want to go there for a vacation, but I'm excited. I, this was, I was,
Everett	really not... When you have this thought, what are you imagining this place to be?
Andrew	Oh, I'm really certain I'm about 80% North African. Okay. Go to our masthead, you'll agree. Yeah. But I don't know, there's gonna be a large percentage that is nowhere in either of our family's oral histories of this is your genealogy, because everyone's done their genealogy reports in grade school and middle school of like, this is my family. And grandma said, we're from here and here and here and here. And you know, by my family's genealogy, I'm so much this and so much this. And you're just not. Both of Sam's parents have done it and they're just not. But I'm excited. And for a relatively low, financial investment. I'm like really excited and I get to be excited for the next six weeks. I didn't pay for the extra one on all the diseases you're certainly going to get. That's like an extra 40 bucks. I don't need to know that. I know exactly what's going to happen to me. I'm well aware.
Everett	So I've got a friend. I'll have to take you out once you get your results. I have to take you out to have a beer with him. But he started one of these companies that got consumed by 23andMe. It didn't get consumed by 23andMe, it got consumed by the other, the main competitor. Oh, I know what you're talking about. But he is a now super rich biologist and chemist, and he is now fairly wealthy. And he's, you know, he's one of these PhD genius types, but he's so into the tech. And It was the first sort of time I'd really spent any time thinking about this, but he talked me through it. It was right after Zodiac, or not Zodiac, Golden State got caught. Oh, the GSK. And he was just, he was telling me, you know, well, people will not do it because they say they don't want their information to be populated. And that's meaningful. It's a meaningful decision to not participate in these things. What I will tell you is it almost certainly doesn't matter because we can just triangulate and interpolate the data based on your cousin and your sister who did do it.
Andrew	That's how they got him. He's like a brother or something. That's right. What's weird is and I tried to read through all the fine print to find like law enforcement releases. I've not committed any crimes and I don't intend to commit any crimes sufficient such that The FBI is going to have to find me through.
Everett	I saw you with an open beverage container in the street recently.
Andrew	I ran across the street. It was fast. There's no way they'll catch me. There's no video evidence. But I looked through that and I don't fully understand how law enforcement has access to these genealogical databases, even constitutionally. I don't fully understand it. We'll do an episode on it. We maybe should.
Everett	I've got another thing. Do me. You know what's funny? What? My other thing is also a gift I got my wife, a Christmas gift that I got my wife. Did you get a banana hammock? True story, I got a banana hammock. Man. It's over the shoulder.
Unknown	Whoa.
Everett	Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really sexy profile on me. I believe it. Look at our masthead, you'll believe it. I got Wyze cameras.
Andrew	You did, I make all manner of funny faces in your cameras.
Everett	You do, you flip them off sometimes. A little bit. I got a Wyze, W-Y-Z-E doorbell? Mm-hmm. Camera doorbell. And I got an outdoor, their V3 indoor outdoor camera.
Andrew	And in our neighborhood, you really need it because there are ruffians.
Everett	Yes, there are ruffians. You know, I don't think we need them. It's nice to have, but it's my first foray in kind of smart home Tech integration. Yeah. Right. Um, and this is not quote unquote smart home, but it's part of the smart home packaging. And I don't know what I don't know, but when I started looking at these products, I found kind of an overwhelming amount of expenses related to them. So first I think ring is by far the most popular. Company for this type of thing and the most expensive and there's another company safe There's another one that I oftentimes see advertisements for but the amount of initial investment is pretty high You know in the several hundreds of dollars and then most of these require monthly subscriptions as well for data hosting I want the company called wise and this is a company we've talked about this company on the show before because my smart scale Yeah is a wise, smart scale. This is a company, I sort of think of them like Anchor. One of these companies that sort of showed up out of nowhere making dope, dope goods for a super affordable price. Now Anchor has gotten more expensive, right? Anchor.
Andrew	Yeah, Anchor's, they kind of realized what they had and people realized it and then they jacked their prices up.
Everett	You know, slowly and sort of frog boiling type of deal. wise is still very much or maybe not very much, but still in that budget category. And so I think for both the camera and the doorbell, I spent a hundred bucks under a hundred dollars for both of those things. Um, and you have options when you get it, you do not have to subscribe to anything because both devices have SD card slots where you can locally store and access via Wi-Fi the stored data so you can locally manage your stored files if you want to. I did not do that. I'm paying I think $1.75 per camera per month.
Unknown	That's good.
Everett	Which is pretty good. So like three bucks times a year I think it wound up being if you paid for 12 months. So I think it wound up being like for that both cameras something like 30 bucks for the full year.
Unknown	And
Everett	I won't say these products are anything better than anything else, and I won't say... I will say one thing.
Andrew	They're better than the others, at least that I'm aware of, but continue your statement.
Everett	Well, that's it. I don't have any experience with the others, but what I will say is, for someone who's never played with these types of gadgets before, I'm not a reviewer, I don't have any experience at all, they were incredibly easy to set up. The app, at least for iOS, was incredibly easy to use. These are sort of... QR code instructions. You scan the QR code, it walks you through exactly what to do. I installed the hardwired doorbell in maybe 15 minutes. I had to get into my doorbell. I had to put in a little resistor loop. I had to get into the, you know, into the chime inside. I had to get into the doorbell and I thought, this is going to be hard. And it was not. It was so, so, so easy.
Andrew	Part of that's because you have a newly wired home. That is a big part of it.
Everett	But it was just so easy to do, really convenient. Everything worked the way it was supposed to. I was like, this is, I love it. I'm really happy that we made the decision to go with the Wyze products. Now, you know, long-term tests may prove me wrong in my initial assessment.
Andrew	Everyone's the same. Yeah. I had Blink and Blink is exactly the same. Easy install. I changed the batteries once a year. What I was most excited about with your Wyze camera, your doorbell specifically, it has a 45 degree insert. Yeah, it's just a wedge. They call it the wedge. The wedge. And your doorbell is perpendicular facing to your front door. Yep. So you needed that wedge, and I'm not seeing that in other platforms. They require a parallel view from the door. You don't have that wedge option. And I saw that the first time I saw it, and I was jokingly going to make faces at your camera, and then I was examining your camera, because I was like, oh, that's fucking cool. So you've got a lot of pictures of my face making weird faces at your camera. A ton of them. Some of my butt and many middle fingers.
Everett	I did have to turn off alerts on the one by the by the driveway because it, you know, I turned down the set. It's gives you a lot of options. I have not found a low enough sensitivity that doesn't pick up like for instance, headlights flashing across the cars in the driveway.
Andrew	Do you have the option of blacking out portions of your camera?
Everett	I do.
Andrew	Okay.
Everett	Yeah. So I've done all that. I've played with all the, all the options and it still gets triggered unnecessarily often. So, um, I've just turned off the alerts on it. It's all Wi-Fi based. It's all Wi-Fi based. So that doesn't matter. That's it. That's all I got, man. Well, we're out of things. I'm out of things, but I'll give you the opportunity if you want. I'm done. Okay. Well, well, in that case, thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20, the Watch Clicker podcast. Check us out on Instagram at Watch Clicker at 40 and 20. We post pictures occasionally and obviously every new article and new episode of the podcast. Also, check out the website, WatchClicker. That's where we put every single episode of this podcast and near weekly reviews and also fun articles. Fun articles, increasingly so fun articles. If you want to support WatchClicker, and we hope you do, you can do so at patreon.com. That's how we afford all of our hardware, all of our hosting, and it's a lot of money. So if you want to support us, we would love it. It's like the NPR. If everybody gave $1, we'd have like $30.
Andrew	We'd be going on vacation.
Everett	And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye-bye.