Episode 151 - Interview with Ken Lam of Arken Watch Co

Published on Wed, 15 Sep 2021 22:33:13 -0700

Synopsis

Ken Lamb, the founder and owner of Ark & Watch Company, joins Andrew and Everett to discuss his debut watch, the Instrumentum. Ken shares the story behind starting his brand, including his background in content creation and modding Seiko watches during the COVID-19 lockdown. He talks about the design process and challenges of creating the Instrumentum, a titanium dive-style watch with an integrated bracelet. Ken also discusses his plans to make the brand more British over time by sourcing components and assembly domestically. They also touch on Ken's experiences working various jobs before starting his watch company.

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your host, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. And we do apologize. Everett, the sound engineer today has a single job during the beginning of the show, which is to slide a single slider after pushing a single button.
Everett	There are a lot of sliders.
Andrew	But it's the same slider every time. It has never changed. And you pushed... I've never done that before. You slid the wrong slider. And I'm like, the music's... You did push the right button.
Everett	I pushed the sad trombone one.
Andrew	Yeah, you slid the wrong slider. And I could hear that it was the wrong slider. I looked over, I could see that it was the wrong slider, but you just stuck with it. You just remained committed. You, like, increased pace. Like, it's not quieting down. So yeah, we are, uh, we're also going to, you're going to see a post here soon on the watch clicker website for a sound engineer. Um, we pay nothing, but we do have, uh, we do have beer in the fridge. So if you're interested, it's just one slider.
Everett	It's all it is. Hey, listen, 150 episodes. I've never done it before. 151. Yeah. 151 episodes. How about that? Which means 156 episodes is rapidly approaching, which means we've been doing this almost three years. Weird. Our three year anniversary right around the corner. Five short weeks. We should rent a, a bouncy house for our three year anniversary. We should buy a bouncy house. Record from the bouncy house. Put it in your backyard. I think we need to put it in your backyard. I have dog poop in my backyard. True. And bamboo. Bamboo would like just grow up through the bouncy house. Andrew, Andrew, how are you?
Andrew	I'm terrific. I am on day one. Well, sort of. I don't know. I got off work this morning at 730 and I am into 19 days off work. 19 days away from work.
Everett	Because you've got your, you've got your annual.
Andrew	I do. I have an annual hunting trip. I'm going to leave on Tuesday morning and just go even more radio silence than usual for I don't know. The season ends on the 26th, so I have 13 days or so, but we'll see. I might be out there until then.
Everett	Just in the woods? Yeah.
Andrew	By yourself? I'll have some hunting partners there intermittently. With elk piss just all over your body? I find their beds and roll in it. Yeah. All right, good. How are you besides, you know, a little bit discombobulated?
Everett	Yeah, I'm fine. I don't even feel discombobulated. I feel just fine. You know, I'm just going to chalk it up to standard Sunday evening mistake making. I'll accept that. How's your knee? My knee is good. Good. I'm feeling really healthy. I'm feeling strong, walking, going up and down stairs. Nice. I'm good, man. Nice. But hey, we're talking about watches today.
Andrew	Well, we're talking about some watches.
Everett	Maybe a watch, just one. Yeah, and maybe some others too. We might get there, but we have a guest. We have a guest and we have a fun guest and we're talking about a fun watch. We're talking about a watch that we talked about last week and suggested that this might be happening and it's always good not to count your chickens, but alas, here we are. And also here is Ken Lamb, the founder and owner of Ark & Watch Company. Ken, you're here. How are you? I'm good.
Andrew	How are you? How are you guys? We're excited to have you. Welcome to the party. And you are based not in London, but in the UK. So here we are cracking beers. And I saw a coffee mug, which is it seems more appropriate for a Monday morning than beers at 6am.
Everett	Do you have Glenn Livet in that coffee mug?
Ken Lamb	Glenn Livet? Unfortunately not. You have coffee, I assume. No, no, no. It's actually a cup of tea. That makes more sense. Would I be British if I didn't wake up and put the Catalan to make a cup of tea?
Everett	And I assume it's proper tea to make sure I get all of our verbiage right. It's property is my assumption.
Ken Lamb	It's, it's, it's, yeah, it's property, milk, no sugar, not for me. Um, and, uh, Yeah, there's not much to it, really.
Everett	I think it's more fantasized outside of the UK. That may be true. However, I think almost no one in the United States has, like, proper tea kettles. Like, no one has a kettle to make tea in their house.
Andrew	Almost no one. I have one.
Everett	Like a real, like... Yeah, like a gooseneck kettle. Yeah.
Ken Lamb	I think it's pretty rare. A gooseneck kettle is quite a fancy version of a kettle though.
Andrew	Yeah.
Ken Lamb	That's like a temperature set one, right?
Andrew	Like you can... Oh, no, it goes on the stove.
Ken Lamb	Oh, OK.
Andrew	Yeah. It's not it's not that fancy. But yeah, I have a gooseneck kettle for making tea. I don't know, dude.
Everett	Dork.
Andrew	It's nice. You can aim the water when you pour it in things. Makes a good French press, too. Come on.
Everett	Fair enough. Fair enough.
Ken Lamb	Do you make a lot of pour overs? I pour over coffee and stuff.
Andrew	My wife used to, I usually just put it on the stove to cover hot burners or if like I just need water heated up quickly, it goes on. Okay.
Everett	Yeah. Fair enough. No, no, no judgment. It feels like it. No, not dude. You know me. I've got so much stupid shit. Zero judgment. That's our life. It's just stupid shit. We do a podcast about watches. There is zero judgment in this regard. So, uh, Well, Ken, thanks for joining us. We're really excited to have you on. You are here to talk about a watch. However, you have not even ever released a single watch. And in fact, the watch that you're here to talk about, we don't even know everything about.
Ken Lamb	That's true. Also, first, just thanks for having me on. It's a Yeah, it's a real pleasure to kind of be on and to hear you guys kind of talk about The Watch on the last episode as well.
Everett	Yeah, thanks. Yeah, no, thanks for coming on. I mean, it's really hard to get people to come on our show. Really? Especially for second visits. Yeah, I mean, this actually probably downgrades your cachet a little bit. It's like, oh, well, Arkham seemed like a cool company and they went on that 40 and 20 show. No, we're really glad to have you. Uh, we're really glad to have you. You know, we get, we get a lot of sort of pitches, um, regarding folks that want to come on. We, you know, it feels like, especially watches that are in pre-production, there's a bit of a risk. Not that it's a risk to talk about people or the stories behind watches, which is really what we do here. But you know, It's always feels like, gosh, is this even going to happen? Is it interesting enough? And is it even going to happen? But with your watch, which we should, which we should just say, you've got a watch that's debuting here in several days.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Um, on the 15th. Well, so yeah.
Everett	So from my time, three days time, your watch is funded. You are making them, I believe.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, so it's going to be similar to Kickstarter in that it's kind of like a pre-order, but it's done on my own kind of platform because I wanted to kind of have the full freedom to be able to obviously interact with each of the buyers, have kind of control over kind of when and where the process of things are and that sort of thing. Um, so it isn't, it's, it's most of, most of the kind of the funding has been kind of put forward by myself. Um, but at the same time, the kind of the, the watch will be kind of the creation of what the creation of the watch is kind of riding on the shoulders of, of the people that have kind of supported the brand and kind of supporting it from the beginning. Cause when I first started to kind of announce to, kind of like my friends and people that I was starting to take this journey to develop a watch. Um, kind of you've, there's, there's, there's people that have been following the Instagram account for like maybe a year or so before I'd even revealed kind of the full picture of the watch and they've kind of seen it come to life. And, and that's one of the reasons why, um, I've mentioned in a few of the captions, like, um, keeping the price to like 500 us dollars for the people that kind of said it in the beginning. Cause when I first started it, I said I was going to give all these things, right? Like full titanium case, integrated bracelet, uh, 300 meter water resistant, um, the movement, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm going to do it for 500 us dollars. And a lot of people were like, no way. Like, you're not gonna, you're not gonna be able to sell it for 500 us dollars. I was like, I will like, I'm, I'm gonna do it. So, um, so that, that's why for the first kind of 48 hours, it will be available for, for 500 us dollars or three 59 99, uh, in pounds. Um, but yeah, so that was kind of, uh, that was kind of a start of it, I guess.
Andrew	Well, let's, let's get an introduction from you. So we've got, we've got a little bit of the story of, of the brand and where we come, where we've come to. And I understand you've done, uh, you've done a little bit, but let's for, for the folks out there who maybe aren't familiar with you, who are you and how did you get to this point where you're deciding to launch A watch.
Ken Lamb	So I am a born and raised UK citizen, to put formally. I'm born in Birmingham, so if any of you guys have ever heard of Birmingham. Just Alabama, yeah. Just Alabama, no? Have you ever heard of the Peaky Blinders?
Andrew	Yeah, there's a Birmingham, Alabama, and that's why every time you say it, I'm like, Alabama, that doesn't make any sense.
Everett	We have both watched Peaky Blinders. I believe we've talked about Peaky Blinders on this show.
Andrew	Probably several times. Yeah. But yeah, so born and raised in Birmingham.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, born and raised in Birmingham. And then, so I, when I graduated, I moved, well, I did, I started to do production and content creation and that sort of stuff. And firstly, I worked for a couple kind of like companies, one of them being Hypebeast. And then I went kind of freelance and started working as an individual with brands or like businesses to kind of like help develop their social following or help them create content to communicate certain messaging and all that sort of stuff. And then when COVID happened, like obviously, because I was flying, I was moving around a lot, I kind of got grounded. So then I had to kind of like I was still doing work, but a lot of it was remote editing stuff. And as a hobby, I was like kind of taking apart and rebuilding Seiko watches. Like I was modding Seiko watches and then I was like getting some like vintage pieces and just kind of like cleaning them up and then selling them. And I was just doing that as a hobby just to kind of pass the time in between like projects that were coming in. And then I kind of was looking into making like it was really just for myself, like for my own hobby. I was looking into making kind of parts for Seiko watches just for myself, like just for myself to wear, just for myself to enjoy. And then if my friends like who, who also kind of collect Seiko watches, if they wanted some of the parts I've already kind of like, I'd already made them so that I can, you know, give them a few pieces or whatever. Um, just for simple things like hands or bezel inserts and all that sort of stuff. Cause the, the kind of the market for third-party parts for Seiko were getting more expensive. Yeah, like 45 bucks for a dial these days. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of getting a bit stupid. So I was kind of looking into that and then that was when I kind of thought, well, if I'm going to spend all this time like designing the original parts that I wanted, but like to fit a Seiko watch, Why don't I just design a whole watch? Like, let's see if I can do it. So I just kind of like, thought I'll take a swing at it. Like, let's see if I can do it. So I kind of went down that pathway. And then once I kind of started to make progress on it, once I started doing because I did all the designing, kind of myself, I did all the technical drawings and all that sort of stuff. And I just started developing it a little bit by little. And then I'd kind of start to post it on my own personal social media to say like, Hey guys, like I'm going to, I'm going to try and start a watch company. Do you want to see if I can do it? And people were like, yeah, go on then. Like have a go, see if you can pull it off. And yeah, and then, and I just, yeah, it kind of like, it kind of grew from there as this idea of me kind of just making a watch for myself. Um, to a few people and then a few people more saying, I really like this, I'd wear this. And then I started to kind of put some real aims behind it then, like in terms of the specs that I wanted and the direction I wanted to take it and kind of who I wanted it to be for and the things that I wanted to do different from other brands and how I wanted to set myself apart and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, so that's kind of how it started.
Everett	I want to follow up on that, on that last thing you said, because I think that's important. Um, that's an important part of the story here. What did you want to do different from other brands? So I think you've done remarkably some things different than the average micro brand and you, you won't be surprised to hear me say that. I don't think, but what was your aim in terms of doing things different?
Ken Lamb	Well, I mean, um, I think Kickstarter was one of the first. Obviously, a lot of micro brands will start on Kickstarter and a lot of successful micro brands have started on Kickstarter. You've got Brew, they make great watches. You've got Baltic. In my opinion, they make pretty nice watches too. But I feel like the wave of Kickstarter watches that kind of hit that level was probably around four or five years ago. And I don't feel like the platform offers the same to microbrands now because of the amount of microbrands that have launched on there using, you know, maybe catalog parts and kind of like not that thoughtful in terms of its design. And they're just trying to get out a product to kind of make money. And in kind of the work that I've done in content creation, I've done some work with Kickstarter campaign for different products, not for not for watches. And some of them are more innovative and more kind of personally connected to the owner. And then some of them are just like a business kind of like roll off thing where it's not that innovative. And they're literally just kind of like taking a product that is already made, slapping some kind of creative spiel on it, and then flipping it through Kickstarter. And I didn't want that for the brand. Like I didn't want Arken to have this immediate association. So I wanted to keep it separate from Kickstarter just so I might get taken fractionally more seriously, even though I'm running a very similar system in terms of the way that it's being funded. So yeah, that's the first thing. And then the second thing was just the engagement with the community. I wanted to be more hands-on with how me as an owner um kind of engaged with the audience and i wanted to be personally kind of tied in with each of the people that support and buy the watch um like i'd said um i'd mentioned a couple times before like the first 300 people that like buy this watch i'm gonna learn their names i'm gonna learn all their names and so then if any of them ever contact me i know exactly who you are i know exactly what watch you've got and you can ask me questions or contact me anytime and it's gonna be like you know me almost because you have a piece of what I've created for myself. Um, and then the other thing was just kind of like messaging that makes sense. Um, like you might've seen the, the kind of the gender neutral post thing that I did before.
Everett	Yeah.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. So I kinda like, that was a very hot topic around the time that I was thinking about it. Um, at kind of like with, with, uh, gender free, kind of messaging and watches that weren't specifically associated with women and all that sort of stuff. And, and, uh, yeah, I just, obviously I understand that the watch that I'm designing is, is primarily for me in a way, so that we'll have kind of masculine features, but it doesn't mean necessarily that it's designed for men. Do you know what I mean? Like if, if, if, uh, if, if anybody wants to wear it, albeit a woman or someone with smaller wrists or someone with massive wrists, et cetera, If you're a lady, this is a lady's watch. Exactly. Like if it's, if you want to wear it, it's your watch. Like if, if this is your cup of tea, take it, run with it. Like I will support you the whole way and I will find a way to convey the messaging that, that you can relate to just as well as I can.
Everett	You know, I would say your bigger point there that you're really wanting to connect with your customers and um, Make your customers a part of this process, uh, in a sort of interactive way. We, we hear that from the brands. I think that we've really connected with, um, you know, Andrew at Astor and banks has said similar things. I know, I know that John Ferrer at, at brew has said that, and not only have they said that, I think that they really genuinely. every day live that. I know Mont has got a great relationship with its customers and you know, it seems to me like that is the thing that sets micro brands apart from, from maybe any other thing that you might buy day to day, right? We get that in other industries too, right? Whether it be pens or knives or whatever, we get, we get that engagement. Um, but I think it's a really cool opportunity for people who are buying watches. So, cool on you for doing that.
Andrew	Thanks. Can we circle back a little bit?
Everett	You can circle back.
Andrew	I want to talk about how you got into the hobby of watch modding.
Ken Lamb	Had I? Yeah.
Andrew	How'd you get there? I mean, you mentioned that kind of during your COVID lockdown, when you're stuck at the house, you started modding watches. Modding watches isn't just something that like, at least when I think about it, I can't imagine sitting on my couch having nothing to do, having no interest in watches and being like, I'm going to buy this and I'm going to mod it. I can do that. I mean, that is something I would do because I'm a watch person, but I think barring already having been a watch person, that wouldn't even be something on my radar. And I'm, I'm curious how you, how you find yourself going down that rabbit hole.
Ken Lamb	Um, so I'd kind of, I'd, I'd been involved, well not involved, but like, um, watches were already part of like, kind of my psyche at this point. I'd been interested in watches for a couple of years, specifically Seiko watches, because it was kind of like more within my means. And then the modding thing happened because so like, I caught wind of this like, trend that happened. Like, it's weird, because I think modding in the last couple of years has kind of like, just been exponential. it's it's flown like the amount of like stores that sell parts for for all different types of watches and stuff like that now is is huge but like there was a period of time um maybe five to ten years ago where like there was a specific like set there was specific seiko mods that were like really hot one of them was like the um like a 55 55 fathoms mod of like a SNCH. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and that was like a hot thing. And you could only buy parts from like this one, like old guy in Hong Kong. And he would like... Yaboki's photo bucket. Yeah. Yaboki's. Yeah. You can only get parts from that guy. And like, that was it. Or there was like a place called Dagaz that you could order online as well. And it was very like niche. And I caught wind of this kind of like trend way after the trend that kind of died. So, well, not so much died, but like not as kind of hyped. But it was just before this like big influx wave of like everywhere selling parts. DLW. Yeah, DLW, Nomaki and Crystal Times and all those. Yeah. So then, so yeah, so I caught wind of this thing. And I was like, this is, this is nuts. Like, you can just like, buy a really cool watch and then just add all the extra flares that you want to add on to it. You've still got the reliability and the core engineering of a trusted Japanese watch brand. I just got engaged in that. At my core, I'm quite creative and I like making things and I like tweaking things and designing things and all that sort of stuff. So I just kind of like fell into that. Um, I fell into that a couple of years before, uh, COVID. Um, so a lot of the watches that I was like playing around during COVID, they were like, I was remodeling them almost because I'd found a, I'd found a really, really cheap supplier. Um, I've just like really random parts, like hands and stuff like that. And I was just like buying it because they were like, they're like maybe 5p for a set of hands or something. which is like really cheap. Yeah. So I was just getting a bunch of like stuff and knickknacks and just like switching them out and changing them. I was just kind of having fun with that just to kind of pass the time. So that was kind of how I got into the mod thing.
Andrew	Um, but yeah. So then with that, at what point, like what was it when COVID hit and suddenly parts were taking 24 years to ship? was that when you're like, you know what? I think, I think now is when I can make this transition. I think I'm done modding and I'm ready to do it for myself. Cause I mean, you've talked about your, your design background and your, your creative background. You just kind of worn out on working with other people's palette and wanted to start on your own. And I want to start digging into the design because we haven't even talked about the watch. We're halfway there. Uh, I want to, I want to start getting into the thinking behind the design that you're that, I mean, I see one on your wrist. I mean, uh, how we got there.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. I mean, you're, you're, you're kind of right in, in that, um, yeah, kind of working with what other people have designed. Um, and I was going to start designing parts for myself and, and it just didn't make sense. Like it didn't make sense to kind of like put money into making something that I was already had limitations on, you know what I mean? And I know that designing kind of original parts was going to take a whole lot more time and a whole lot more money. But I just felt like the payoff was going to be more, yeah, more true to what I actually wanted.
Andrew	Do you have a background in that design to completion of like product engineering and design, like from paper to a finished product?
Ken Lamb	No. Okay. Not, not even, not even a little bit. Okay.
Andrew	So this is the first iteration of that.
Ken Lamb	Oh yeah. This is, this is the first thing I've ever kind of like put, like I'd seen it, like I, like I said, I've worked with clients that kind of done it, but I'd never, I'd never done it personally. And I'm like, that was like something that I mentioned as well early on. Like I'd said to a lot of people that had started to engage with, with, with me saying like, Oh, you started this watch company, et cetera. And I'd said literally like, if I can do it, you can do it. Like it, you know, if you put your mind to it, if you take the amount of time to kind of look into it, you can be surprised at what you kind of create. Cause I, I did it with, with very little knowledge in the kind of the product space. And, and, um, it just took a lot more time, a lot more reading and obviously my own money to be able to kind of like start putting it into action. And that's what inspired the Latin engraving that's on the back of the watch. If you've, if you've seen it,
Andrew	Yeah, let's talk about it. Let's get in. Yeah, let's talk about that first, and then we'll get into the whole thing.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, so on the back of the watch, on the case back, there's a Latin engraving in the center of it. And it says, Out Viem, In Veniem, Out Fasciam. And that's kind of Latin for, I will either find a way or make one. And that was kind of the approach that I took. Like, I wanted to design a watch, so I'll find a way to do it. I wanted to make a titanium watch, so I'll find a way to do it. I ran into obviously these different hurdles when creating a watch and I never let it slow me down. I wanted this watch for people that really related to it and related to where it came from. I wanted to have this piece as something that they could be inspired by to go out and do the things that they actually want to do.
Everett	Let's talk a little bit about the watch itself, right? So the Instrumentum is your debut watch. Yeah. And it is, oh boy, it's a whopper, man. Thanks. This is not the average micro-brand debut piece, I would say.
Andrew	No, it certainly doesn't have that look to it.
Everett	It is a dive watch, right? Or at least it's spec'd like a dive watch. I'm not sure it's fair to call it a dive watch. I'll let you call it whatever you want, but it is that sort of traditional, you know, rotating bezel diver feel. But sort of the similarities to the average micro release kind of stopped there, at least in terms of the specifics. So, But tell us a little bit about what it is, what, you know, I think when I see your watch, I see elements of at least four watches that I can pinpoint. Um, some of those are specific watches and some of those are maybe more categories of watches, but what, what is this thing, um, in Ken Lamb's own words?
Ken Lamb	Um, so you're, you're right in saying like, um because I was very reluctant to call it a dive watch because I feel like now like nowadays the concept of a dive watch doesn't 100% make that much sense very little because like yeah because like I mean people use dive computers so that's like more of what I would consider the modern day kind of dive watch um so I like to think of it as more of a dive centric kind of like tool watch which I know you guys touched on a on a previous podcast about like tool watches, what makes them a tool watch and that sort of thing. So for me, I kind of like wanted it to be kind of an all purpose. And then and in the same sense of it being a dive watch being kind of overbuilt, stand your day to day kind of like beating sort of thing. So that was the kind of direction that I wanted to take with it. But I wanted it to be more compact, like I didn't want it to have kind of the bulk that you know, dive watches tend to have, I wanted to have a bit more kind of just a bit more class to it, a bit more thoughtfulness and, and, um, just some design elements that, you know, you're never going to see at this price point, like not by a long shot. Um, you know, spin it through kind of like my own kind of design mind's eye. And, and yeah, this is what, this is what came out of it.
Andrew	And you say overbuilt and, and I, Respect wise, I definitely think it is. I mean, but it is. It's this interesting collision between like a dress diver, a sport watch, and like very kind of Zen feeling tool watch. That it everything just works the way you were able to blend that tool aspect that kind of refined sport watch aspect, that dive aspect is, is really impressive. And I want to, I want to hear more about those inspirations, about the, the things that drove you, the, the watches kind of that, where you were thinking about that, you're like, Oh, I kind of like this aspect. And, and I know you're, you're, you're, you're not, it's not homages, right? You're you, but you're, you're working off of your creativity, but also things that already exist in the space. And I want to hear a little bit more about the thinking of everything that went into this, because this is this is cool. I mean, you don't see tight. I mean, titanium alone would have been innovative enough on a dive watch. An integrated bracelet would have been a change from the norm. But you went with both. You're going to two different loom styles. Yeah, I mean, you've packed a lot into this single package and I want I want more. I want to hear the thought process behind it. I want to know.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. I mean, um, like I'd be, I'd be lying to say that like, you know, there aren't certain design inspirations that come from, from other watches that exist. I mean, when you're jumping into kind of this watch space, you know, a hundred plus years later than all these other really well-established like watch companies that have created great things over the years, your, your, your ability to create something that's completely original without pushing the boat incredibly far out is really slim. So for me, what I was kind of like looking for in terms of design elements from other watches that I'd liked or that I'd seen was that they had to be purposeful, right? So like, say, for example, in some articles like the, obviously you've got the crown guard that kind of comes up to the crown here, but then you've got this this guard that's on the opposite side to make a very Nautilus. Yeah. Yeah. So people, some people think, you know, Nautilus has that kind of like shaping to it. Um, but for me, I feel like that is something that has a purpose kind of design element to it, whether that's for some people who kind of like wear the watch on their right hand to prevent it from, from the bezel, from knocking or because of normal humans and wear watches on the right hand. Well, I mean, some people do like, I mean, it's kind of like,
Andrew	I'm left handed, so I wear my watch in my right hand and everyone makes fun of me.
Ken Lamb	But, you know, it's like if you tell folks to have kind of that symmetry, um, to kind of keep, keep that door open. Um, you know, obviously with, with, uh, the bracelet, people have compared a lot of it to kind of, to overseas and that sort of stuff. Um, but in terms of kind of the design thought that I had, uh, well, I mean, for starters, I mean, overseas, the price of an overseas is, is like, I think, in a previous previous podcast mentioned, one of the links would cost more than this entire watch, which is very true. It's different. So and obviously, this has a taper, it's a hell of a lot thinner. But the thing that drew me to it was kind of the link size. So I'd kind of consciously thought about this watch being suitable for people with smaller wrists. And obviously that kind of has to lend itself to the, the kind of the ergonomics of the way it would wrap around your wrist. And with this, um, the links are a lot shorter, so it allows for more links to allow kind of more flexibility, um, to suit people with smaller wrist sizes and same with the, the, the extension class. Yeah.
Everett	Can we see the extension class? Cause I don't think this is public, but we could see it.
Andrew	We won't tell anyone about it. We're just going to,
Ken Lamb	Yeah. So this is, this is the extension class, but it's, it's only 30, 30 millimeters long. So it's, it's like 30% shorter than kind of your standard diving extension class. Yeah. Yeah. It's very short. Yeah. It's, it's really, it's really thin. Um, it's, it's not that thick.
Everett	Um, we've seen a lot of these and that's the shortest, that's the shortest I've seen.
Ken Lamb	It's, it's, it's got a full extension. Um, yeah. And, um, Yeah, so obviously I didn't want it to be like this, this metal sandwich, like you'd have the watch on one side and then this clasp on the other side and then two links on the side. You just.
Andrew	Right. And that's the issue with extension clasps is they're often. Exactly. They're super functional. They're very comfortable, but they're often too long.
Everett	Yeah. There is one, I think one sort of OEM available extension clasp right now. And it's the one that is that is pretty long. I mean, it winds up just being especially if you've got a more tubular sausage dress like Andrew.
Andrew	Yeah, I do. I have lots of summer sausage.
Everett	It winds up just creating like a square.
Andrew	Yeah, it's just yeah, my my bracelets actually hang 90 degrees to the watch head.
Ken Lamb	I got I can't I can't wear that I can't wear that class man like it's it's too big like I don't have big wrists I have like a seven inch wrist but like that that clasp is just too it's too much.
Andrew	And did you do you did you experiment with that wrist in your prototype or with that clasp in your prototyping or did you just go I mean or did you go directly to this is this is the idea that I have but it's got to change it can't be this.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, I mean, there are, like you said, that kind of that available OEM, you know, a lot of people, a lot of even third party like strap companies sell it and stuff like that. So I tried it on and I'd seen it. And another part that I didn't like about it was that it's an auto kind of closure. So if you push it, it will close itself, right? Like you don't have to press it. So if you're like out and about and you knock it, it can just pinch you. And then your hand could fall off. You just lose circulation. Just gone. Like you just got a nub and it's like you've got the watch but like... And your strong hand.
Everett	But also if you cut your wrist, it could be like a tourniquet, a quick tourniquet. You get a really bad arterial cut. You can just lock it, lock it in.
Andrew	It's a functionality we never talked about in Ratchet, in clasps.
Ken Lamb	Are you going to take some notes, Ken? Yeah, I'm writing this down. Give me a sec. The tourniquet, the tourniquet clasp arcan model number two. There we go.
Everett	Yeah. Well, so I believe, I believe, and so, you know, having done a teensy bit of research I believe that your watch is different than many micro brands in the sense that you've actually designed every millimeter of the watch and bracelet, even if you didn't design or engineer the clasp. Everything above that is.
Ken Lamb	The clasp is actually originally is mine as well. Like the, in terms of the molding, everything and all that sort of stuff.
Everett	So walk us through how difficult that is because You know, I think there was a time when people were, most micro brands were doing catalog watches. Um, by and large, I think that those times are kind of behind us. I think most people are designing watches, but with different degrees of involvement in the process, we certainly, some companies are still introducing catalog case watches, but by and large, I think most people are designing them, but I don't know that everybody's doing it quite the way you are. So talk a little bit about your design process.
Ken Lamb	Um, yeah, like, I mean, like, like I mentioned earlier, I kind of went into it without wanting the limitations, like, I didn't want to have the limitations of, oh, you can only use this bracelet, or you can only use this this case, or you can only use this crown or whatever. Otherwise, I'm like, you know, there's there's no reason to not just get any other watch, you know, I mean, so like, I wanted to design every little bit. So every every measurement on this, kind of like every Everything that could be consciously thought about, I thought about it. So I mean, yeah, the bracelet is original in terms of the kind of the design that went into it and kind of manufacturing each of the individual links and kind of where it tapers. So you've got like three taper links and then they start to level out then. And the taper goes from obviously 20 millimeter width to 16.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. Great. That's a, it's a great taper.
Andrew	That's the perfect taper. That's, that's our preferred taper. 20 to 16 is the perfect bracelet taper. There are some bracelets that I've interacted with that are not 20 to 16 and it bums me out.
Ken Lamb	But, um, but then again, like if you, if you do the taper for say 20 to 16, there's no, there's no class that like fits that, like in terms of like the ratchet extension class, The catalog one will stop at 18. So in that respect, I was like, okay, well, if I want that clasp with that bracelet, I got to make that bracelet, that clasp myself. So I'll make that clasp myself.
Andrew	How hard was it interacting with manufacturers to get them to do what you wanted? And we've talked to brand owners who, I mean, have been told you can't do over 50 meters of water resistance with an acrylic crystal, which we know to be false. But what's that fight look like with your manufacturing partners?
Ken Lamb	I mean, that wasn't actually, funnily enough, that wasn't the difficult part. Because I have kind of like a visual arts background in terms of either media production or photography and all that sort of stuff. I was lucky in the sense that I could communicate what I wanted it to look like quite easily by by drawing it myself or by, you know, taking an image, like taking a photo of what the current prototype looks like, Photoshopping it into what it should look like and all that sort of stuff. So I was able to kind of communicate those things relatively easily. It was, it was the more fine tuning details that were a bit hard to like get right. And by that, I mean, things like the, the borders on the hands, like the metal borders on the hands or the metal borders on the indices.
Everett	Your hands are great, I think unconventional and maybe, you know, without being too pejorative, a little weird in a good way. But yeah, they're fantastic hands. So what does that look like? That process of coordinating dial to hands because it's clearly coordinated.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, so it just it took a while. And for the longest time, like I couldn't understand why it looked weird, like some of the earlier iterations, I was like this, something about this just doesn't look right. And I didn't know what it was. I thought it might have been the texture on the dial. So I changed that. But then it didn't look right. So I changed it back. And then it maybe it was the polish. So I had to change took off the polish off the metal kind of indices and the markers took that off. I was like, Hey, yeah, this looks a little bit better. But the size of the border now needs to be a little bit thicker, a little bit smaller. And every millimeter makes a huge difference.
Everett	Every 0.1 millimeter.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like one tiny thing and it's like, this looks off. And then like, okay, we need to add some extra lines or, you know, change the certain thickness on some things. And it was the fine tuning that was a little bit more tedious because obviously that pushes back certain kind of manufacturing timelines and stuff like that. But yeah, the only kind of big thing that was difficult originally was finding kind of a manufacturer that would do it in titanium.
Everett	Yeah.
Ken Lamb	Titanium was the toughest thing. Sure.
Andrew	And it's a hundred percent titanium case to case, case to class. Yeah. Titanium.
Ken Lamb	Everything is kind of, everything is titanium. The bezel, the, the, the case, the case back, each of the, the only thing that's steel is the, um, it's the, the pins inside the links.
Andrew	Oh, perfect. So I can break those.
Everett	And it's a screw, they're screws. It's a screw construction bracelet, right?
Ken Lamb	Yeah. It's a screw construction. So obviously those have got steel kind of like pins in them.
Andrew	And spring bars, I'm assuming are also steel.
Everett	Yeah. Okay. Well, and let's talk a little bit about your titanium because it's, uh, I think it's a, a medium high grade titanium. You don't have a, you don't, you know, in $500, it would be impossible to do crazy high quality titanium, but you also have a hardened, uh, treatment to this, which I think gets you up to like the 600 Vicar range, which is like, Um, close to Zen's testamenting hardness.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. I mean, um, so it's, it's a, it's a grade two titanium. Um, I think if you, for things like grade five, um, they don't need as much kind of like, uh, treatment post kind of like manufacturing. Um, but again, like you mentioned the, the, the cost of grade five pushes the watch into a different kind of category.
Everett	Um, but at the same time, Even grade three, which I think Tudor is using, is pretty expensive.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. But the thing is with grade two is that you have to have it coded. There's no doubt about it. It has to be treated in order for it to have the correct surface properties. But then obviously that treatment varies. You could have a treatment that only gives you enough resistance up to 300 Vickers or up to six or up to 1200 and they're all different kind of layering costs and the protection varies on what part of the watch you're referring to. So say for example, the coating on this watch is four to 600 depending on where the coating is on the watch, because obviously certain areas like certain corners, they're not going to have the same kind of coating sense of protection. So
Andrew	Did you really supercoat the clasp to avoid desk diving marks?
Ken Lamb	So, my one's actually got like a ton of like marks on it because of that exact reason. So, for the actual production version, I'm considering maybe doubling up on that. I haven't fully decided whether that's something that people want because I know that Obviously with the kind of the direction that I've taken a brand, it's very like use the watch, like beat it up, get it scratched. Like, and people like that legacy. Yeah. That legacy element of like having their history engraved into the watch for all the, for all the emails they've sent. Do you know what I mean? So like, um, like I'm trying to, I'm trying to kind of like keep the balance between, um, I remember when I got my first glass scratch, I was writing an email to a Nigerian Prince.
Andrew	That's the best thing that's ever been said on this show.
Ken Lamb	I want to be realistic with how people wear it and stuff. Would an extra coating on the clasp be that important to people who want to be able to see what they've done with it? A lot of the messaging that you're going to see come out of the brand is going to be very real in that sense. Like I did a poster that I didn't end up using that was kind of very much along the lines of like, have you ever scuba dived under an iceberg? And neither have we. So by our watch, do you know what I mean?
Everett	Like, yeah, it's brilliant. I really like that. Yeah, that's it.
Andrew	That's the one. So we're starting to run short on time and this might run us long. This is an important question for me because it talks to the future and the goals that you've been really clear about with your brand. So you've been clear that you want this to be a British watch. Yeah. How do you get there? How do you start? And what is needed to be able to bring this all in-house, not necessarily to your house, but all home to make it a British watch?
Ken Lamb	Yeah, I mean, in the beginning, I just wanted to kind of design a watch that was great value for money, just a great watch that kind of came from me. And I didn't want to just say, Okay, I'm going to do all these things in Britain just for the clout. You know, I mean, just to say, Oh, yeah, it's it's here. I did it here for those bragging rights. And, and it'd be essentially the same quality as making it anywhere else. It's just had that. So I wanted to kind of take the steps to slowly find ways to make it more true to the origins of who I am. It's more of a personal goal, as opposed to anything else, because I don't think anywhere along the way, I would sacrifice quality in terms of the product that I want to kind of give my customers. But yeah, so to start it kind of moving back, obviously the second step is already kind of lined up actually. So the watch that I plan to kind of release after this watch will be fully assembled in the UK. So I've kind of like put that step in place. And then after that, it's finding suppliers for the different parts, you know what I mean? I don't plan to kind of have it in-house, so to speak, or ever really say that it's in-house because I'm not going to have my own, not for the next like decade or so. I'm not going to have my own warehouse, my own workers or my own case makers or my own, you know, that's not likely to happen in this decade. It's just not because the cost of those things is incredible.
Andrew	But it doesn't mean the infrastructure already exists. I mean, why reinvent the wheel?
Ken Lamb	Exactly, exactly. So it's more of a case of like finding the right kind of you know, uh, metal work factories to do the case or yeah, the right hand, someone to supply hands or someone to supply dials and that sort of stuff. And then I slowly work piece a time until the only thing left as a movement. And then hopefully by that time there might be some kind of source movement that's available in the UK that can actually be put in the watch.
Andrew	And we hope that for, for everywhere that either the UK or the U S can at some point fully source movements and we can usurp the Swiss made.
Ken Lamb	I mean, whether that's a, whether that's a clone, whether that's a clone or something original, um, you know, cause it could just be a 2824 clone or, or some kind of Sleater SW200 or whatever clone. Which is a 2824 clone. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, same as the Mioda, right? So it's the kind of all clones of each other in that respect, but just something that's more readily available, um, doesn't break the bank. And, you know, I can keep the price points low for the people that actually want to wear them and beat them up and not feel like they've hurt their bank account by beating them up.
Andrew	So can we maybe pick your brain on what's next for the brand?
Ken Lamb	Yeah, yeah. So the next thing to come up is... I get a lot of questions about straps, right? Um, obviously with it being an integrated bracelet, there's no strap options. Um, and I, and me personally, like I love wearing my watches on NATO straps. So that was the first thing that I needed to solve.
Andrew	Right. So you mean nylon pass throughs?
Ken Lamb	Pardon? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everett	Remind us to talk to you about this after the show because, but keep going.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Yeah. So, um, So the next thing that will come out after this watch is what I'm calling the Arkan military link. F**k yes! Which is a NATO strap conversion link. It's already kind of like, it's being tested at the moment. It's already been prototyped and everything. It's just being tested to kind of like kind of iron out some of the kinks and decide whether you know I'm gonna have it with a spring bar or whether I'm gonna have it with a fixed bar or you know, just kind of the more, the smaller details of how it kind of works, but the NATO strap for this specific watch is definitely coming next. And then we'll kind of see where it goes from there in terms of other strap options. I have designs already done for rubber straps and that sort of thing, but trying to find them, trying to make sure that the kind of more delicate parts of the rubber strap that kind of link into the central piece of the case are kind of like structurally sound.
Andrew	Sure. Yeah. Cause that's only what maybe, maybe five millimeter if five millimeters of six or seven.
Everett	Yeah. You know, you've got a model there in Vacheron, which, uh, you can maybe take a look at what they do.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. Like I, I don't, I don't, I don't, I've got to kind of like have a little think about how to do that a little bit better in terms of functionality. Cause you know, when you have like little end pieces on rubber and then they, you get a little crack in it, it's done. It's done. Yeah. It's done. And the last thing you want is for, for a watch that you've kind of like enjoyed spending your time with to just fall off your wrist.
Everett	Well, but it's a good opportunity for you to make additional money off of people over time.
Ken Lamb	Well, yeah, that's true. But for me, it's not, it's not, it's not really about that.
Everett	Well, at some point it better be.
Andrew	You don't have like a replacement warranty. Like, Hey, my end link broke and I need a new watch.
Ken Lamb	I'm not going to, I'm not, I'm not planning to do any of that kind of like stuff. Cause, cause if I was the customer, I'd be so pissed. Like, If I was the customer, I'd be absolutely livid at that. And it would make me less likely to wear it for its use, because I'd be constantly babying it then. Because I'd be like, I've got to constantly replace this thing. So yeah, the link is going to be available afterwards. And I'm trying to give some priority to the first 100 people that buy the watch. And then, yeah. And then the only other thing that kind of follows that is the second watch, which I haven't really spoke about, and I'm not going to kind of go into the detail of it, but there is kind of a loyalty that is going to be rewarded in terms of the people that have bought the first watch. So there's going to be something about the second watch that is going to be more enjoyable if you had already purchased the first watch.
Andrew	All right. Is it going to remain titanium?
Ken Lamb	Yes.
Andrew	Okay. That's all I'm going to pry for.
Everett	So, Ken, we've talked a little bit about your background, Seiko modding. I know you've talked on another podcast about sort of your background with Casio watches. But I think maybe a more important question for you and maybe for those at home who are listening would be your business background in terms of how are you going to make this business work? You know, we asked you to send a resume and you did not.
Ken Lamb	Wait, did you ask me to send a resume? No, of course not.
Andrew	Did I miss that? But we are interviewing for a sound engineer if you're interested.
Everett	But we did do some research. You got, you got, you got.
Ken Lamb	I'll take that job.
Everett	We did do some research. And so what I want to know is from slinging noodles at Selfridges to slinging Hypebeast shoes to working at Hypebeast or producing videos for the Fong Brothers. What in your background has made you suited for this and will make you suited for being a watch brand owner moving forward?
Ken Lamb	You really dig, didn't you? This is what we do for money. You found my LinkedIn, didn't you? You went as far as me slinging noodles. Yeah. That was like my first, that was my first job, man. I think I was like 16. I can picture a 16 year old Ken.
Everett	Slinging noodles.
Ken Lamb	I was washing dishes before that. Yeah, like I was washing dishes at like 16.
Everett	So how do you take all these experiences and turn that into a watch brand? And why is your watch brand going to be better than all the other watch brands because of those experiences?
Andrew	Or maybe not even better, just as good. I mean, we don't have to, you don't have to be superior, but why? Let's trust you. Sell us. Sell us on Ken.
Ken Lamb	I think some of my early work things kind of lend itself well to kind of just being committed to something and working hard at something. You know, sometimes you've got to do a bit of the dirty work to kind of get an outcome that you can enjoy and appreciate and also have an understanding of like people that are going to put all their money into something that you've made. You know what I mean? Like make something good so then the hard-earned money of people that can buy are going to buy something that's worth buying. So I think that's one thing. And then as far as like all the creative stuff I've done, um, it's, it's, I've, I spent the last seven years creating content or photos or videos to communicate somebody else's story, somebody else's story or someone else's product or the story that they want to communicate through that product. And like, this is the first time that I've been able to kind of create something and tell my own story through it and tell a story that I kind of believe in and I feel that people can relate to and approach kind of a watch company with a slightly different agenda. Obviously there are things that other companies do and do well like customer service like you mentioned. You've got Brew, you've got you've got Monty, you've got these other brands that have great customer service. I want to kind of push that even further like I want to push you know brand loyalty and brand communication and all these things further to create something more than just the product that you're buying. Like I want to create a bond within the experience of wearing watches because I think that's kind of at its core the reason why we all love it. It's like the idea of being able to have the watch and wear it under certain circumstances or wear it in certain places or conditions or occasions. And yeah, I want to take that one step further basically.
Andrew	You know what sold me? Buy something worth buying.
Everett	Buy something worth buying. I dig it. You sold me.
Ken Lamb	I'm there. Sweet. Does that mean I get the job?
Andrew	Yeah. It's only one slider.
Everett	I mean, it's not hard, but there's so many sliders to choose from. Andrew, other things.
Andrew	What do you got? Oh, I got I have an interesting other thing.
Everett	And I know it's coming.
Andrew	So I just I so my wife has restless legs. And her friend also had the same had the same issue. And she got a weighted blanket. I'm going to solve the problem. And today, today's Sunday. So on on Sundays, I have a weird Sundays are a weird day for me. I'd Sundays for some of us. Well, Sunday for me. So and Monday for Ken. On Sundays. Yeah. So Saturday, Saturday, I wake up at I woke up at 2 p.m. yesterday and I went to sleep at about 10 a.m. on Sunday and I got up at 3 p.m. on Sunday so I'm a tired dude and I'm going back into a night sleep cycle period for my vacation but some days I'm just tired anyway so I usually take a little nap or go to bed very early it's it is now 11 p.m. So I like I knowing scheduling this interview I was like man I'm gonna be sleepy I need to take a nap. So this weighted blanket is at my house and I lay down on the couch under it and my life was changed. I have never in maybe the hour and a half nap that I took under this weighted blanket it was as good as a full night of sleep. I'm not gonna be able to sleep when we're done here. I'm up because that nap was Terrific. So, uh, my wife got shitty with me because I was just using her weighted blanket and she wanted to be using it. Uh, so I, I immediately bought, uh, cause it was hot. It was a little hot and I didn't like that, but I liked the weight of it. So I went and I bought a queen sized 20 pound cooling heavy blanket from the Amazon and it's four and a half stars with 6,600 reviews. Pretty good. So the whole thing behind it is that it's breathable, but heavy. And I usually when I take a nap, I'll throw a blanket over me because it's cozy. And after my wife took her weighted blanket back, I put a fleece blanket over me and it was trash. I was pissed. I was like, this is nothing. I don't want this. So I got a queen sized weighted blanket and Everett has my phone. What's the brand on it? The brand is... It's a made up word.
Everett	Hypnoser.
Andrew	Oh, yeah. What are you doing? You're an animal. It was $35.99 on Amazon. So stay tuned for in a couple weeks here when I get a chance to tell you about it. But 20 pound blanket.
Everett	Your other thing is more of an idea.
Andrew	Yeah. Weighted blankets are the shit. I'm just telling you, I've never had a better nap.
Everett	Yeah, you know, we haven't a way to blink it. We've got I think that same brand actually in king in king size, which we've thrown over our king size bed.
Andrew	And this is just for me. I'm not going to get a king size. I share it.
Everett	I know that it's it's it's one of those things you have to try it to understand it. It's I'm not sure I'd want to sleep. In fact, I know I don't want to sleep under it every night, but sometimes, yeah, it's cool.
Andrew	It's pretty cool thing. I might never sleep without it again.
Ken Lamb	Did it did it fix the restless legs or no?
Andrew	I don't know. I was sleeping under it. That's her problem. No.
Ken Lamb	So as it fixes restless, it fixes restless partners.
Andrew	Yeah. So as I was coming upstairs, she was under under the blanket and she she did comment that her restless legs were not an issue. And just that weight, like it was is magical. It's like being in the womb.
Everett	I like it. Well, I've got another thing. My other thing is chosen, picked, curated in light of our guest in content creation and being a visual artist. But this is a YouTube channel that I've followed for a little while now. I just sort of found it one day and was like, oh my gosh, I didn't even know that this sort of thing existed. But it's a YouTube channel. The name of the channel is Benny Productions, and Benny is the fellow who has this channel. He's a European fellow, and I'm not sure where in Europe. He's got maybe a Dutch accent. Maybe. I'm not 100% on that. But he is a Photoshop artist. He is a Photoshop artist, and he makes these videos. where he makes images usually artistic like sort of fantasy or they're not even in any genre but he takes random pictures and he photoshops them into cohesive images and it is incredible it's incredible you can tell that this is a photoshop project that usually spans several hours And I don't know how many hours I'd guess that most of his videos are between 10 and 20 hours of actual, you know, time behind the computer. But it is incredible. This guy will take an image, drop it on another image, change the light, add highlights. He makes artwork. And it's so fun to watch. As a guy who doesn't know Photoshop, and I assume maybe even more so as someone who's got some familiarity with photoshop, it is wonderful. This guy will people will send him pictures, bad pictures, people will send him children pictures and he'll take these pictures and put them into a scene and light everything and then add light and add glow and add it's wonderful and it actually I will say I'm at the point where it's lost its luster just a little bit because once you've seen one, you've seen a hundred, but it's still totally incredible. And just the idea that someone can do this stuff with these tools is mind blowing.
Andrew	They're about 20 minute videos.
Everett	20 minute videos. Yep.
Andrew	And a half million followers.
Everett	Yes. He and he's there. Maybe I know that there are other guys that do the do this stuff because he collaborates with them from time to time. But this is the one I found in the one I followed. And it's so stinking good. So that's my thing for the week. That's a good other thing.
Andrew	It's the photo on his his first video kind of looks like like somewhere between Stitch from Lilo and Stitch and alien.
Everett	He's got a couple of different series. Sometimes he takes drawings that people did and like makes that drawing from just like random stock images. Sometimes he will stitch together things or create a whole environment. Anyway, it's just totally wonderful.
Andrew	I'm intrigued. I have, I have some hours to burn. Yeah, I've got, I've got, I've got to go down this rabbit hole.
Everett	It's really cool, Ken. You'll, you'll dig it the most. Ken, other things. What do you got? Um,
Ken Lamb	Okay, so I don't know whether you've you've heard of this. I think I think it might it might even be from America. I'm not 100% sure. Burger King.
Andrew	It's delicious. Burger King.
Ken Lamb	Oh, flame royal. Yeah, you just read my mind. So it's literally on the topic of burgers. I'm not I'm not even kidding. Right. So have you heard of Linda McCartney?
Everett	Yes.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. So like I hadn't heard of Linda McCartney, right. I'm not really, I'm not really clued up on, uh, healthy eating options, um, just in general. Um, and so like my, my girlfriend is, um, she's a pescatarian, um, and she, obviously she doesn't eat meat.
Andrew	Well, she eats fish, which is only kind of meat.
Ken Lamb	Yeah.
Everett	Are we talking about Paul McCartney's wife, Linda McCartney?
Ken Lamb	No, no. Oh, I don't know if it's Lynn. I don't know if that's the same. I don't know if that's the same.
Everett	This did not go the direction I expected it to go.
Ken Lamb	Paul McCartney's wife makes burgers. I'm not sure.
Andrew	No, we're not talking about the same person.
Everett	You said Linda McCartney and I was like, yeah, I've heard of her. Wait a minute.
Ken Lamb	I need to Google this real quick. Linda McCartney.
Everett	Just so you know, Ken, we're not cutting any of this. This is all staying in.
Ken Lamb	Did she just walk in? You can ask her who it is. One minute. Let me double check. Linda McCartney.
Andrew	I was like, no, that doesn't make sense. We're not on burgers right now.
Ken Lamb	No, I don't think. Anyway, I don't think it's the same person. But yeah, so I got introduced to these meat-free burgers. Oh, okay. Like the Incredible Burgers. Yeah. Yeah, kind of. Or Beyond.
Andrew	Yeah.
Ken Lamb	You're probably familiar with Beyond, right?
Andrew	Yes. Or Impossible. I mean, take your pick.
Everett	It's the same name, Linda McCartney. Maybe it's the same lady.
Ken Lamb	I'm trying to think. Oh, it is. It is that Linda McCartney.
Everett	It's the same person. Fantastic. Well, now we know.
Ken Lamb	Well, that's, that's changed everything. That's changed. Absolutely. I don't know if I have the same, I don't know if I have the same feeling about this now.
Everett	What are we even going to do now?
Ken Lamb	My, my other thing kind of is gone completely too far. Um, so yeah, so I got introduced to these burgers and, um, I was a little skeptical I was skeptical. Um, I'm not really one for, um, kind of meat free options, but they're really good.
Andrew	I've had some of the impossible burgers and I concur. They, they feign meat very well.
Everett	Yeah. They're not veggie burgers. I'm going to have to try these Linda McCartney burgers. I know. I'm really interested. I mean the, this, the, the way we got here. Yeah.
Ken Lamb	More specifically, the mozzarella burgers. They have like mozzarella burgers that are like a veggie option. Those are the ones that you need to try.
Andrew	Okay.
Everett	It's wonderful that it is Linda McCartney, by the way. One of the best other things segments we've ever done.
Ken Lamb	I had no idea that was the That Linda McCartney. I was just like, oh, it's another one of those like they just slap somebody's random name on it. Like, oh, it's it's Aunt Jemima. Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, yeah, exactly. Aunt Jemima's meat free burgers. Oh, sweet. Like nobody knows who Aunt Jemima is, but she makes a mean burger. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
Andrew	Why wouldn't she? Everyone has her.
Ken Lamb	Yeah, exactly. So. So, yeah. But yeah, I got introduced to these burgers from my girlfriend. She was like, you need to try these. And it meant, you know, having something we could both eat. And yeah, it was, I was, I was pleasantly surprised. Like I would say previously, I'd be very skeptical and very much like meat-free burger. Nah, meat-free sausages. Nah, like I'll take a pass. Like I'd much rather just have the meat option. Like if I'm going to eat meat, might as well eat meat. But I, I, I really enjoy these, like these, I, yeah, if you're going to do it, this is the way to do it.
Everett	Done. I'm going to try some. I'm going to give him a try. I had a friend who... When you order something, give me some.
Andrew	Yeah. I had a friend who went vegetarian for a girlfriend and they were eating like the vegetable based sausages. And I called them veggie cylinders. Like Morningstar or something. No, no, no. They were tubular. Like they looked like hot dogs. But you didn't need to cook them because they were vegetables. So he brought them over, put on the grill once. I just I just laughed at it because I was like, what? Okay. So I called them vegetable cylinders and that's always been my mindset of these like, uh, and they were not good. Uh, I did, I did have a chorizo one that was really good cause they had, they, they mimicked the heat, but the texture was just like nauseating. Uh, but some, I've had impossible burgers and beyond, you know, the beyond products I haven't had, um, I haven't had Linda McCartney's and now I'm super intrigued.
Everett	Times are a changing thing.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. I mean, she makes it she makes a whole range of stuff that I was unaware of as well.
Andrew	And she's dead too, it's all from the grave.
Ken Lamb	She does a bag of like a bag of shredded duck, like just a bag of it, like a bag of meat free, duck free shredded duck.
Andrew	What?
Ken Lamb	Yeah. There's a whole bunch of meat free stuff that Linda McCartney makes.
Andrew	Is duck common common fare? in the UK? Um, I mean, if you're doing like bagged shredded, not duck duck, I would assume that it's common enough that.
Ken Lamb	I think it's for like, I think it's for like, um, to make duck wraps or, or that sort of thing. Um, I mean, I just noticed, I mean, so I'm, I'm half Chinese. Um, so I, I do a lot of Chinese cooking. That's why obviously working in a noodle bar and all that sort of stuff. Um, Steering with the stereotype of you. Yeah. I went, you know, went straight into that. And, um, and yeah, so I was looking for, looking for ways to kind of create the food that like, I know that I'm good at cooking for the both of us to eat. So I found that bag of shredded duck and it was, it was pretty good. Like it was, I was, I was okay with it. And I'm very reluctant to eat meat free stuff. Yeah. It's really intriguing. Shredded duck? Yeah, man. When you pour it out, like when you, Cause it's frozen. When you pour it out, it kind of looks like wood chip. It looks really strange. Like when you pour it out frozen, it looks like wood chip. And then when you heat it up through, it kind of gets fibrous again. It's strange, but then yeah, it tastes, tastes real. Like it tastes legit.
Andrew	I'm behind some of that too.
Everett	Ken, we're going to wrap. We're really glad you joined us. Um, The Arkham Instrumentum, your debut watch, I think goes live on this coming Wednesday, so the day before this episode. Like 72 hours. You will be in pre-order when people are hearing this. How do people find you? How do people buy your watch?
Ken Lamb	So you can follow us on Instagram, Arkham Watch Co. But if you're looking to kind of pick up one of the watches, head over to the website. Sign up your email to arkan.uk. And yeah, the day that we're recording this, I'm going to be sending out the email to announce the time of release, which will be 5 p.m. So I can say that now because this is going to be out then. Yeah. Yeah. You're already behind. People would have already been buying it. Hopefully. Hopefully.
Everett	Yeah.
Ken Lamb	Yeah. So I'm sending out that email today to announce kind of the time of release. Um, and yeah. What's your website? ARKEN.UK.
Everett	ARKEN.UK.
Andrew	A-R-K-E-N.U-K. Yes.
Everett	And if you go to the website right now when we're recording, there is limited information. If you go to the Instagram, much better photos. I assume when we publish, there'll be slightly more information available on the website. So go check it out. It's really good. Andrew, anything that you want to add before we move on? I'm out of things. All out of things. Well, thanks for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the WatchClicker podcast. You can check us out on Instagram at 40 in 20 or at the WatchClicker. You can check out Arkin at Arkin Watch Co. If you want to follow Arkon, you can do so at the website. That's where they will send you. You can sign up for email updates and get notified anything that's happening there. You can check us out on the website, watchclear.com. That's where we post weekly reviews and every single episode of this podcast. If you want to support 40 in 20, you can do so at patreon.com slash 40 in 20. That's where we get all the money for hosting and microphones and all the other stuff that we have to buy from time to time. We do really appreciate your support if you want to do that. And don't forget to check us out next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye bye.