Episode 145 - Auto vs. Manual

Published on Wed, 04 Aug 2021 20:35:53 -0700

Synopsis

The podcast discusses the differences between mechanical manual wind watches and automatic watches. It covers the basic functioning of each type, their historical origins, advantages and disadvantages, and personal preferences for wearing them. Key points include the addition of a rotor in automatic watches to passively wind the mainspring, manual watches generally having thinner movements and being better suited for dress watches, and the potential for slightly longer power reserves in manual wind watches. However, the hosts conclude that for most enthusiasts with large collections, the winding mechanism is not a major consideration when choosing a watch to wear.

The hosts also briefly discuss other topics like a TV show recommendation, a product for restoring yellowed plastics, and personal anecdotes about their recent watch-related experiences.

Links

• episode page
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• episode webpage snapshot
• episode MP3 - local mirror

Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your host, Andrew. I'm a good friend, Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Everett	Everett, how are you? Good. I feel like I was a little slow on my draw off the pot for the intro music.
Andrew	I was a little late because I was opening my beer and taking a sip.
Everett	Yeah, I'm okay, man. just like super busy at work, which is good. Yeah, no, it's certainly not. It's certainly not bad. Um, it is what it is. I'm still in pain on my knee. I'm still waiting for an MRI. I do not yet have the MRI. What I did get is a referral to Dr. Oz, Dr. Oz, a super high end sort of borderline celebrity knee guy.
Andrew	Nice.
Everett	Yeah. So that was good. He's, uh, he does like all of the, the pre NFL knees for the Oregon Ducks and a lot of those last well into NFL hood too. That's right. Many of them, many of them. So that was a weird experience. I believe it going to, uh, like a S a high end ortho surgeon. Um, you know, it's not your typical, so how are you? Do you have kids? What do you do for a living? Like I walked in, a nurse came in and just sort of asked me some questions. The doctor came in with a younger doctor on a, on a computer. And I mean, those guys were in the room for, I don't know, no more than six or seven minutes. I mean, it was so quick. Um, and he's just all business. There's no small talk and he didn't, ask me anything when you say he lays me on the table and he just starts bending and poking and prodding and i was you know i don't know what's going on so i said do you need me to tell you when it hurts and he goes you can if you want because pain is not a good indicator of of an injury especially in such a complex joint as the knee it can hurt on your left side and the injury could be on your right side yeah clearly he had no he had no desire for that information. Uh, and so I didn't, uh, I didn't really provide it, but, um, he, you know, like I said, just sort of moved things around and he kind of, uh, shouted things at his, at his resident or whatever. Um, and residents diligently typing into the computer. And then he sits me down and says, you know, this is what I think. So, um, yeah, bizarre experience. I like that doctor experience.
Andrew	Well, we're here for one reason, one reason only, I'm going to get you in and out as quickly as possible. I don't care about your input because you're not the doctor. That's right.
Everett	That's right. Um, and you know, he figured out in about 90 seconds, literally 90 seconds of manipulating my leg, what two prior doctors in, in over two, like 20 minute, um, interview, you know, sessions had He came to the same conclusion as those guys, which maybe they similarly came to the same conclusion quickly, but it was just a much more efficient process.
Andrew	Yeah, I want more of that in my medical world. I went in to get, I had a spiral and compression fracture in my thumb once, and the doctor was like feeling it, prodding it, twisting it. She's like, hmm. Let me feel your other one. And it's feeling them side by side. And I was like, she's like, I think it might just be a sprain. And I went to x-ray after that. She's like, well, it's not a sprain. Like, okay, that's concerning. Yeah. That's concerning. So I'm glad you're getting the best available care.
Everett	Yeah. I mean, you know, it doesn't really matter because all he was doing was making an assessment so that he could get me approved for an art, uh, an MRI, which he did. And now we're just waiting for an insurance authorization on that. I mean, everything's just, yeah, it sucks. It's like Canada up in her taking forever. So, but yeah, uh, I'm walking better than I was last week.
Andrew	Yeah. You're getting moving around.
Everett	Okay. I think pain is maybe a little bit more, It definitely is. Yeah, I'm good. How are you? I'm good.
Andrew	I'm on the tail end of the weekend. I've got my boat sitting in my driveway. Yeah. Because I think, yeah, this is last week was still, oh, I'd just gone out on the boat. Yeah. Just taking it for a test drive. That's right. So I did make a boat purchase and I have a 17-foot bay liner in my driveway. And it is super 80s. custom vinyl wrap on it. Looks great. I'm really excited. I haven't been able to get it on the water yet.
Everett	Yeah. When you say super eighties in my mind, that makes it sound like it's tacky. It's not at all.
Andrew	Oh no. So it's, it's recently done. It was done this last year to hearken back. It's vintage inspired eighties decaling on it. Uh, and it's awesome. I'm so excited to get on the water. I wasn't able to this week just cause of my work schedule in conjunction with Sam's work schedule. We couldn't, Couldn't get out on the water, but hopefully Saturday we're gonna get out.
Everett	Yeah, it looks fantastic. I just beer sprayed my face. All in the face. All up in it. And the microphone. The microphone will be fine. So will your face. These microphones have been worse through that. Worse than that.
Andrew	Yeah, so I got my boat this week, and that's sort of been my project, was going and picking up the boat. figuring out where it needs to go in the driveway. And yeah, so I'm good. I don't know. It's hard to beat that. I'm kind of riding that. Just got my, just got a boat high.
Everett	New shit high.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	Got a cover for it today. Put it on. Way too hot to be outside, but wanted to put the cover on and it's covering said boat.
Everett	You know, I don't remember a time in Oregon where it's been consistently for as many days in a row between like 88 and 92 degrees. I think we're going on like three weeks almost of between 88 and it's been more than that, 93 without any deviation in that for the high of the day. It hasn't even rained. Yeah, we usually get some. We'll have like 50 degree days. Undulation in there. And it's just been three weeks consistently 90 something every day. which is not brutal. That's not a brutal temperature, but it's also like it's just odd.
Andrew	I think it is for where we live. Yeah, it's not normal here. We're not accustomed to that. We used to be. We get like, well, not even used to be. I'm like in my head. The Oregon summer is ranges between 60 and 80 degrees and there's a two week spell in July or August of 90 to 100.
Everett	I guess that's where we are now, but yeah, it just seems like it lasts forever when you don't
Andrew	when you're not used to it.
Everett	And I'll miss it when it's gone. So I shouldn't complain.
Andrew	I won't. Cause I'm really looking forward to getting bundled up and under waders and out into cold water to fish.
Everett	Yeah. I much prefer this, but, but I hear what you're saying.
Andrew	I don't, I'm not, I'm not equipped for this. It's, it's hard.
Everett	Yeah. You know, um, I think, I think, uh, I've always preferred it a little warmer. It was cause I was like a pool baby growing up.
Andrew	Yeah, not me. Cool it down. I sweat at 60 degrees. So it's not for me. And I lived in Texas for a long time. That was a very unpleasant. I would get like reverse seasonal affective disorder. Like come August, I would just be in a deep, deep depression, missing being cold. Because even groundwater, you can't take cold showers.
Unknown	Groundwater is still warm.
Everett	You take a cold shower in the summer?
Andrew	Hot showers when it's hot, and cold showers when I'm hot. And this is important. So when it's hot outside, like the ambient air temperature's hot, but I'm not hot, I take a hot shower so that those first couple minutes out, the relative temperature experience is lower, so it feels cooler for a few minutes. But when I'm hot, yeah, I got a cold shower to lower my core temperature.
Everett	I don't like cold showers. I take hot showers even when it's hot, or when I'm hot.
Andrew	Not when I'm hot, gotta be cold. So, watches today. I mean, we'll get there.
Everett	If you want. Yeah, I suppose we should. No, we're talking about watches. We're talking about watches today, and we're talking about, like, something integral to watches.
Andrew	Yeah. Yeah. We're kind of... I like to think of this as one of our peeling back of the kimono topics, because there's a lot of... What did you say? Peeling back the kimono, taking a look inside.
Everett	Okay. Is that a, is that a phrase? Is that a saying?
Andrew	Yeah. Look behind the kimono. Look under the kimono. I don't know exactly. Maybe I'm using the words wrong, but. Is this sexual?
Everett	Obviously. You peel back the kimono, you're like flashing or opposite. You're sexually assaulting one of the two.
Andrew	Well, if you're doing it with your legs the way that you just did. Yeah. Uh, But today's episode, we're going to look at the specific, well, maybe not the specific, but we're going to do broad spokes, broad strokes, differences between mechanical manual watches and automatic watches. And episodes like this, I think are important for us because so much of the knowledge that the watch world has is taken for granted. And so many people's opinions are developed by hitting the forums, listening to assholes like us talk, and our opinion, and then they don't really understand why we maybe hold that opinion. They accept it, internalize it, and then continue to propagate said opinion. There's a lot of things about watches that we just generally accept as true, but have no idea why.
Everett	Yeah, I mean, I think, like with all things, right?
Andrew	But I think that creates a little bit of a barrier to entry.
Everett	Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew	Or at least some intimidation factor. So today we're going to maybe try to reduce that and also maybe edify ourselves a little bit because I thought this was going to be easier than it was. Turned out it got kind of hard.
Everett	Well, and I think, you know, usual caveats. We're not experts, etc. But this is a weird one, too, because it's kind of a basic topic. We're going to scrape scrape maybe a little deeper in some places, but certainly not as deep as some of, as some of you would like maybe, because I think short of being very mechanically inclined or having an education in watch physics, uh, you, you, it's hard to understand some of the concepts here. So with that in mind, um,
Andrew	as always do not hesitate uh do not hesitate to hit us up if we've missed something or screwed something up because yeah because we're gonna because we're gonna so once upon a time the mechanical watch was invented 16th century yeah and it was just sort of there and then along comes the automatic watch what 19 26 yeah i was gonna say 23 i don't know why So 1926, the automatic watch is here, which kind of revolutionizes watch wearing for the big reason that you no longer had to wind your watch because your watch would wind itself whilst wearing it. End of story.
Everett	There it is. There's the difference. You no longer had to manually wind your watch.
Andrew	Correct. You no longer had to take your watch off, pull the crown and wind it.
Everett	You still have to wind it. you just do so by way of some things.
Andrew	Like getting steps on your Fitbit. Wacking off. Yeah. I made a dirty one. So that's the broad stroke difference. A manual watch, you wind manually.
Everett	When we're sitting here talking, do you ever think like, why does anybody listen to us? Why in the world? Especially like at this point of the episode, like if you're sitting in your car, would you be like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? Just play the music. Right?
Andrew	Just do it. But there's more to it than that. Let's hope. The advent of the automatic winding watch is kind of a engineering masterpiece.
Everett	Yeah, well, I'm not going to disagree with you there. The no less a masterpiece is the advent of the mechanical.
Andrew	But it solved a problem that was kind of nonexistent. It's a problem you didn't know you have. And that's that's the real magic in beautiful inventions is they solved problems you didn't know you had. I hate spending time with people. Boom, Netflix. And I was pretty OK with people before Netflix. Problem solved. So let's let's do a big picture functioning of the mechanical manual. What are we going to use? We use mechanical or manual watch.
Everett	Yeah, no, that's a reasonable that's a reasonable point. But I don't think it makes any sense for us to try to fight our natural impulses. We'll just say. Right now, if we say the words manual or mechanical, we mean a manual wind watch. Although, even though, an automatic watch is a mechanical watch.
Andrew	It can be.
Everett	Yeah, but they are, right? So if we use the word mechanical, we don't mean automatic, we mean manual wind. Correct.
Andrew	That's it. Okay, I'll accept. The main components of your mechanical watch.
Everett	Do me.
Andrew	We've got your crown, which attaches to a stem, which attaches to a spring, which then attaches to a big gear set series. This spring, called the mainspring, lives in a housing called a barrel. That mainspring, after being tensioned, releases its energy, managed by your... Uh-oh, it's eluding me. Your escapement? That manages the outflow, the exhausting of your mainspring, and powers the movement that you see. Not the movement of the watch. It powers the actual physical movement of the hands, subdials, and other complications of the watch.
Everett	You know, I think we can do a little bit... You want to go deeper? Deeper, because I think you've hit all the points, but I first just want to say, While we were researching for this episode, I found this YouTube video that will be linked in the show notes.
Andrew	Yes, I will link that one. That's the only thing I'm going to link because everything else is kind of trash.
Everett	Yeah. This is by a YouTube channel called Animagraphs and it is titled How a Mechanical Watch Works. And I think it's a really, really excellent video. It's just well made and it explains a lot of this stuff. And I was watching it and I was like, you know, explaining this, this series of, of mechanical processes that happen in conjunction with each other, but, but also visualizing it, uh, in this way, this very specific way I thought was a lot of fun.
Andrew	It was well animated. The guy's voice was kind of grinding. I didn't particularly like his voice. Yeah.
Everett	But other than that, yeah, I think that was a good, you know, I think the thing, I think the thing that became apparent to me today, more than it ever had previously, was that it's not a line. I had always imagined a linear set of motions based on the mainspring being released. And I think in my head, I had the mainspring being released directly into the escapement, which then powered your gear train. But I don't think that's, I think actually maybe in a more appropriate way to visualize this is a Y, where your mainspring pokes into both your gear train and the first part of the gear train pokes out to a break, your escapement and then your hairspring. Yeah. The hairspring being the end of the break, but the break being inserted kind of in the middle We're at the front end of the gear trade.
Andrew	So what's the governor to the to the tension release of the mainspring?
Everett	Absolutely. And I think just visualize just having that visual. I just really appreciated it more like this is such an incredible that his his animation on the hairspray and the escapement I think was terrific and it really like I never realized how much mainspring there was.
Andrew	So He said a foot. It's a shitload. Yeah. A foot of ribbon metal is coiled up about a foot of ribbon made of metal. It's coiled up in the center of your watch. Yeah. That's crazy. It's crazy. That's fucking nuts. Yeah. That's like, that's like intestine density.
Everett	Do you, do you ever watch any of those watch those watch, uh, repair videos on YouTube?
Andrew	No. Yeah, because that will give me the undue confidence that I could do this. Like, for example, my alpines is running and in not great shape, and that's my fault. So I have to get it serviced.
Everett	Maybe you don't need to get a service, but you may need to have it demagnetized and regulated.
Andrew	I lost seven minutes in an hour since you've been here. Yeah, I've caught up. It doesn't make any sense. It may be magnetized.
Everett	How it happens, whatever it's, whatever's happened, it just happens. Yeah, that's why, uh, that's why, you know, people that are around magnetic shit where anti-magnetic watches, it's a real legitimate, I'm not around magnetic shit. Everything's magnetic. Not this beer can probably not because it's made of aluminum.
Andrew	So, but that definitely watch that video because if, if, even if you're familiar with Maybe Nick don't watch the video. It would probably be a waste of your time.
Everett	I get mad at it.
Andrew	But for the rest of us who are just regular ass normies who like watches, the animation was terrific, showed everything in slow motion and then sped it up to what you're actually seeing. So you wanted to talk more about?
Everett	No, that was it. I just wanted to talk a little bit about how incredible that video was and how you can learn more. Yes. I sent that to the boys and Mike was like, why would you send me this? I was like, I just thought it was cool. Yeah. And he's like, well, don't you already know how it works? And I was like, well, yeah, but I still thought it was cool. And then he relented and said, okay, I'll try it.
Andrew	We watch how it's made all the time. Yeah. I love that show. Like we watch shark week. Don't you know the sharks bite people? Yeah, we know. Let me see. I'm still going to watch. So that being said, That mechanical function can create some problems. Mm. Ish. Mm. They're not necessarily problems when you don't recognize them as such, but when there's another solution, they sort of present as problems.
Everett	Hold on. I've got actually an ex... Like a technical question for you, Andrew. Yes. What would happen if I were to take, say, a... Just for instance, a 24-hour jumping time GMT movement, and then disregarded the 12-hour hand, but instead modified the 24-hour jumping hand to 12 hours so that I could fit my skeletonized hour hand to that, have it run on a 12-hour cycle, but also be jumped on. What would happen? I'm just curious. This is kind of a technical question just popped into my head. I think it'd be fine.
Andrew	Okay. Yeah, now I think that's legit. In fact, I think it's genius and we should market it. The problems that present here. You have to wind the watch. You have to remove it from your wrist. Not this jumping time. Mexican jumping being nonsense that we're talking about. You have to remove your watch and wind it.
Everett	If you hold on because I've got it. I'm gonna I'm gonna call bullshit on that. Wind your watch. Call it. I oftentimes don't want my watch. Okay, I I went all of yesterday wearing my Speedmaster and then I woke up this morning and looked and I was like I still haven't said it and I was like I'll set it today.
Andrew	You wore the flipper for days. It doesn't it can't be set.
Everett	So I finally said this thing as I was headed to court today because I was like okay, I am court. I'm actually going to need you to tell the time Yeah, I wore it for a solid 36 hours unwound. Oh man, how long is your what's your power reserve on the speedy? I think it's 38 hours. I don't know that for sure, but I think it's 38 hours.
Andrew	Okay, but you have to wind it. You do these if you want if you wanted to tell the time accurately it at all you do have to wind it and Nick makes a really interesting argument and I don't know if he posted the video to a story or to his Instagram. There's a really good argument to wind your automatic watches also. But you must wind your manual watches. Otherwise, they just stop running. They run out of juice. The tension is entirely released on the mainspring, and it has no more ass to power the gear train. Yes. With holder watches, you can overwind these things and break your stem from your mainspring. because of too much tension. That's a problem because then it doesn't work anymore.
Everett	Is the defect is likely to happen at the stem connection?
Andrew	I believe so. I don't know. That's kind of what I could find is that over tensioning breaks the spring away from the driving agent being the stem or whatever functionality is used to attach the crown to the spring.
Everett	And now of course with modern innovation they've dealt with a lot of that stuff. They've introduced clutches and Um, but yeah, that's a, that's a thing. In fact, I think the very first watch I was ever the owner of was a mechanical lady in the tramp watch and I overwhelmed it.
Andrew	It's probably because it's pieces were plastic. Certainly. So moved in 1926 where we have the onset of the automatic watch, the onset, that sounds foreboding.
Everett	It is the invention.
Andrew	The proliferation. Arrival.
Everett	The onset. It's like a like a cluster headache.
Andrew	Could be for these guys who are suddenly having to learn how to do how to implement this technology. This technology goes to be advanced to what to what we know today. The biggest change here is an added layer of mechanics. which is why inherently automatic movements are thicker than mechanical. Because they have more shit. Because they have to have more shit. There are more pieces added so that the rotor that you see when you look through an exhibition case back or the rotor that you know on in this movement spins and winds the watch passively. And the idea of that is that through wear your watch will never die.
Everett	Preservation of your kinetic energy. Yes. You're reducing, reusing, recycling.
Andrew	Exactly. Rather than, you know, having to wind your watch.
Everett	Automatic watches are great people.
Andrew	Very. So let's get to the modern day. Here we are. Here we are today. Mechanical watches have almost entirely alleviated the overwind and break problem. They are inherently thinner. Although I do think that that, uh, who just released the three millimeter watch, the two millimeter watch.
Everett	Oh, I don't know. It's gotta be like a, some sort of Bulgari or something.
Andrew	No, no, no, no. I just saw it. It's tiny. I think that was an automatic movement. I could be mistaken though. It's tight. It looked ridiculous. It was like a quarter on, but much larger than a quarter. Obviously it was fantastic. And the technology in it is, is out of this world. And I want to say it wasn't automatic. Fuck, it doesn't matter. Mechanicals are inherently thinner, which I think lend themselves to dress watches. Here's also something that, if we're going to do a balancing act. Yeah, is that what we're doing here? Well, I just want to kind of highlight some things, right? So at this point, both things are equal in the way of durability. You're not going to overwind and break your mechanical watch. You're not going to overwind and break your automatic watch. Really the difference is that one is going to passively wind itself. Although there is an argument for those watches that you can wind, you ought to wind because they perform better when wound to their full capacity. And even on Monta's website, they say that you should, even if you're wearing your watch every day, you should wind it fully about every seven to 10 days. Oh, interesting. To get, because you get that full charge. They say that your car runs better with a full tank of gas with a full energy charge. You're going to get better performance.
Everett	Yeah, you alluded to this just a bit ago, but Nick Harris posted, I think it was on his story on the Orion, or it might have been.
Andrew	I think it was maybe to his page.
Everett	He posted a story showing the accuracy of a watch. I don't think it was an Orion watch, but maybe it was. It certainly could have been, but gave it just a cursory wiggle.
Andrew	He shook the shit out of that thing.
Everett	And then put it on the TimeGrapher. and it had a pretty high deviation. I can't remember what that there were a lot of beat errors to it. Yeah, be right there and then and then fully wound it, you know, give it the full manual wind hundred rotations. Hundred is that what it was? What he said a hundred rotations and and the beat rate error went down to most negligible numbers.
Andrew	None. It was clean. It went from I'm like a heartbeat heart rate monitor looking graph. to just a clean, obviously with deviations, but generally clean line.
Everett	The takeaway being things run better on full power. Yes, yes. So it makes sense with your automatic watches to wind them up, like you said.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	And for those of us with large collections of watches, when it's dead anyway, wind it after you set it eventually. And you're going to have a more you're going to have a better performing machine.
Everett	on your wrist. Well, and the same is true for mechanical watches to hand wind manual watches. They run more accurately, fully wound. Uh, so something I found interesting while, while reading about this, uh, it, well, two things I found interesting. One is with hand wind movement. When you wind it all the way to the break, don't want me anymore. Uh, they tend to run a little bit faster, but that goes away quickly. Um, And then they run pretty consistently until they get down into that last 10% of the power reserve. So there's a plateau in the middle where it runs pretty consistently. For most mechanical watches, if you're winding it every day, wearing it every day, winding it at the same time, you're going to have very low deviations.
Andrew	You should theoretically never reach that bottom end of performance. That's right. I don't know of, I mean, I don't, I can't think of a mechanical watch with a less than 24 hour power reserve.
Everett	Uh, no, I can't either. Um, and, and so the same would be true then for automatic watches, except that you're just by way of the motion of the ocean, uh, keeping them in that band. Hopefully. Yeah.
Andrew	But for those of us who maybe go a week without wearing a watch, or maybe shy of a week, maybe five days, and you come back to it and it's on its last legs, and you put it on, you're gonna have a pretty poor performing watch. Because you're not, I don't think you're ever gonna be able to generate enough kinetic energy to fully wind your automatic watch. Because it winds it in really small increments.
Everett	Yeah, that's right, that's right. I've always wondered how like a Miyota movement versus an NH, uh, how they both basically do the same job. You know, an NH, a Seiko NH movement winds both directions, the Miyota only one. It always felt like there should be a Delta there, but it turns out there's really not. The second interesting thing I found, and I'm just going to interrupt you one more time here before I give the mic back up here, but this is, we're just using one microphone tonight. The second interesting thing I found was that, All other things being equal, should I caveat this? I believe this to be true. Perhaps. I don't know. Please tell me if I'm wrong. All other things being equal, a manual wound movement is going to have a longer power reserve, maybe 10% longer power reserve than an automatic movement. And For instance, because I can hear your objections, you're sitting there and saying, well, for instance, the SW 200 and the SW 210, the same caliber, same base caliber. One of them has an automatic rotor affixed to it. The other one doesn't, but really the same engineering that make these two watches run.
Andrew	Oh, yes. The two series, two XX.
Everett	You are going to have a 38-hour power reserve on the auto and a 42 on the mechanical. And floated some ideas, talked to some people. There's two prevailing theories here. There's two prevailing theories. One of these is practical. Specifically, manual wind watches don't have a slip bridle.
Andrew	Right.
Everett	but which is the part attached to the end of the mainspring to keep it from over winding. Uh, which could potentially take some space in the barrel, meaning you have either more room to wind the mainspring. There's just more room for it to be wound up or room for more mainspring or there's more room for more mainspring. Um, I think it's a decent theory. I would be surprised if Salida is putting different size mainsprings in these. So I'm not sure I believe it. The other theory is more of like a physics, uh, theory that there's something happening, something Newtonian happening as between the rotor and the mainspring, uh, actually asked Nick about this, uh, Nick Harris. And he said he, um, thinks it might be energy loss from the slipping reserve power flow into the automatic. So either way, Theory is abound. If you do know the answer to this question, feel free to tell us. But other than that, just take it, take my word for it. All things being equal, manual winds are going to run slightly longer than an automatic.
Andrew	I think there's something you said there that some of that energy could be transferred into your rotor shaft. As it's as it's unwinding, it's going to be exerting force against that rotor shaft.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	Which would be just a... Very little, I mean, but relative to its pure mechanical counterpart that has nowhere else to exert that energy.
Everett	Entropy or even just every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction, right?
Andrew	I read a position today that mechanical watches exist generally often, not generally, but often in super high luxury, highly complicated watches. that manual wind is more likely to be in high end, which are going to carry more complications and more power reserve is allotted to those as a, uh, kind of a customer care thing so that every time you put on your watch, you don't have to reset all your complications. I think that's false.
Everett	I think it's correct.
Andrew	And I think that's a crock of shit too, because everyone, not everyone, many brands are in the power reserve excess game. This is the power reserve space race kind of era in watches.
Everett	And it doesn't, I mean, it doesn't explain the phenomenon anyway. It's just a crock of shit.
Andrew	Yeah. Let's, let's go into, into the inherent differences and maybe value differences betwixt the two. For, for those of us who have a large amount of watches. I don't know that there's a difference that is that matters. I think you just you find a watch and and the movement that's in it. If it's a movement that you like regardless of hand cranker or automatic, it's the right purchase is how many of us put on dead watches in the morning ever wears them for a day and a half. Everett has a watch that just doesn't move and wears it. It's true. It's true. I wind and set mine. You know, usually by the time I leave the house, I wind and set. But I think we can do better than buy what you like here, right? No, we absolutely can. So, but for those of us who have several watches, I don't think this should even be a consideration. I think. Agree or disagree.
Everett	That you just don't think you worried about it? Yeah. I mean, it's not something I care about. With that said, there's some practical considerations whether you change watches every day or not, right? Like the first one I think of, an automatic watch is going to be more prone to failure.
Andrew	Yeah, more pieces, more failures.
Everett	Rotor bearings typically wear out in five to ten years. A purely mechanical watch, you can expect to have almost two times as long a lifespan before you have a part failure. You're going to need regulation in that time. But before you have part failure, you can expect almost twice as long on a mechanical watch versus an automatic watch. Don't quote me on that number, but it's something like that. It's some multiple of time. Mechanical watches, more inclined to water leakage.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	Because you're disrupting the gasket in the crown. So any sort of water resistance expectation is diminished over time. With an automatic watch, if you wear that thing every day, you may pull the crown out. If you're following Nick Harris's advice once a week, uh, if you're not maybe less than that, right. Do you need to set the watch? If not, you just may not. So, and obviously over time, that's going to become more and more frequent, but, uh, you know, those are right there. Objective advantages for both.
Andrew	Yeah. Mechanical watch is going to make a better dress watch.
Everett	almost universally probably because it's thinner although micro rotors and like you said there's all sorts of ways to squish down an automatic movement but yes oftentimes mechanical thinner yeah your automatic watch isn't going to die at inconvenient times or it is no it's not if you're wearing that watch you're not suddenly going to be sure dead in the water it's not going to suddenly die if you forget to wind it.
Andrew	Yeah. Because you're going to carry enough charge with you. Now, there's also power reserve indicators that are available with modern technology, and you start looking at those kinds of things, and that kind of becomes a moot point. Because on your manual watch, if you look at it and go, oh, six hours. Wind it up. I think the technology behind a lot of automatic watches is much cooler, micro order specifically.
Everett	Yeah, but with a mechanical watch, you have a better opportunity to see the workings. You do.
Andrew	I mean, yeah, but I don't know, that doesn't, that might get it going for some people. I'm like a hypochondriac. If I can see my movement, I sent Everett a picture today. I was like, is this a, is this a blemish? Is this, is this debris in my movement? And I think it is probably the hairspring, but it's not moving uniformly.
Everett	It's exactly what it is.
Andrew	No, it's, it's debris inside my movement, beating away within my movement, just getting pulverized in there. But that's the thing I do. I look at it and like have horrors of what's happening.
Everett	It's like self-inspecting your own x-rays.
Andrew	Yeah. I don't, I don't, really care to see my movement. It's not good for me. I don't, I don't know.
Everett	I mean, what else is there? Well, I think that some people, um, with regards to a mechanical movement, some people will like the fact that they get a wind at every day.
Andrew	You can wind your automatic every day.
Everett	Just like some people will like shifting gears in their car, right? There's a connection to, There's a connection to the process that's happening, and that is not gonna be for everybody, right?
Andrew	There is some nostalgia there. There is some very real nostalgia that I think watch hobby in itself kind of is anyway.
Everett	And it may be more than nostalgia for some people. I think there may be something about the routine, the ritual, that is powerful for people.
Andrew	But I think that's part of it. You're connecting to this history. It's the same reason I think people like classic cars or antiquated technology because they like that connection to where it began. They like that feeling, which I think is kind of tied into what you're saying. I think we agree. I was expanding on it and making myself more right. But broad strokes, that's the big difference. Is there two entirely unique machines? I think one you drive, one you power. I mean, it's an automatic versus manual transmission. One you are in control, and the other does it for you, by and large. You still need to put transmission fluid in it. That's important. But I think people get hung up on Hand winders versus automatics. Okay, let me ask you this. And I don't think it's necessary.
Everett	Let me ask you this. If I give you one watch that you could wear for the next three years, automatic or manual?
Andrew	Do I get to custom make this whole watch? No, no. I'm just going to give you a watch.
Everett	You don't get to choose anything about it except for the winding mechanism. Automatic or manual, go.
Andrew	What's the watch? I don't care. Okay. That's I think what I'm getting as I don't, I don't care if you, if you say, Hey, I found a hand cranker, uh, but it's like this cool fucking thing. Or I have this cool automatic, like that's, there's other things that are more important to me. What's your thought on it?
Everett	Yeah, I think if I had to choose, I think you're avoiding the question. Uh, I think if I had to choose one watch, it would be automatic. If I had to choose five watches that were all the same, that'd be mechanical hand wound mechanical. And that, for me, at least, illustrates the point that if it's just going to be one, I'm never going to take it off.
Andrew	Oh, and I have to wear that watch for the next three years? Only that watch?
Unknown	Yeah, that was the whole point, dum-dum.
Andrew	Oh, I want an automatic watch.
Everett	Yeah. So, I mean, really, I don't think that there is a ton of advantage to a mechanical watch versus a manual wind watch versus an automatic watch, except for what we've described, slightly longer power reserve. Um, slightly longer longevity, but for me, I do like that experience of winding it.
Andrew	I wind most of my watches when I put them on.
Everett	I do now since watching Nick Harris's video.
Andrew	Yeah. Like, wait, I'm not going to have a magnetized watch on my wrist. Now it's a dead nuts.
Everett	I bet it's magnetized. Just take it in and get it demagnetized.
Andrew	It's annoying. Aren't these supposed to be anti-magnetic? They're Prospects.
Everett	I don't know. I don't think that means anti-magnetic.
Andrew	It's Prospect. Professional specifications. I've never had a magnetized watch and it's my first one probably and pisses me off.
Everett	Whatever. It's a cheap fix. Anderson will do it for you. He'll probably do it for free.
Andrew	Or you could buy the anti-magnetizing thing that you did and blow it up.
Everett	That was scary. Made it worse. Were you there with me when that happened?
Andrew	No, you just showed me. I was, I came later.
Everett	I bought one of those blue box mag demagnetizing machines and it, it literally like exploded a mini explosion in my house with my watch on it. It was bad. Yeah. Uh, are we done? Are we done? Did we, I don't feel like we've done anything today, but I think we have it.
Andrew	But I think what?
Everett	Do we need to keep going until we just really make a great discovery?
Andrew	I think we've drank beer and we've talked about watches. And that's enough for me. Are you not entertained? I don't blame you.
Everett	Either way, I don't blame you.
Unknown	No, not at all.
Everett	Andrew, other things. What do you got?
Andrew	I recently watched a television show. Go figure. I watched The Righteous Gemstones, finally. And it's not an new show. It's been out since like 2019. Just took me a while to get around to it. It has the best lineup. Danny McBride, Adam Devine. Devine? I think it's Devine. And John Goodman are the three primary male characters. And Eddie Patterson. Edie, Edie Patterson. Edie Patterson. Yeah. Who I recognized but couldn't place is the main female. And there's a bucket load of other people who, when you see them, you're like, Oh, I fucking know you. Walter Coggins, Dermot Moroney. Yeah. I mean, take your pick of Tony Cavallaro. Yeah. A bunch of people you recognize. The whole premise of the story is that the Gemstones, this family name, are the ministry leaders slash owners of a global mega church. As a result of that, they're super rich. John Goodman is the builder of this empire and the children are all the benefactors of growing up super rich with an amusement park in their backyard, kind of rich, which leads to making some choices. So the whole premise of the story is Danny McBride's character finds that there is a video of him participating in some less than savory activities and is being blackmailed. And the world spins out of control as a function of that. But they did. The show was hilarious. It's like this really dark comedy. My wife and I watched it together. And there are things that had me almost in tears that weren't like fart jokes or something, but things that just had me dying that she was not amused by. She was like, I don't get why that's funny.
Everett	That's typical for you and Sam. Yeah.
Andrew	Like, no, I, you should get why that's funny. It was this really great commentary on mega churches and wealth within religion being misused, mismanaged without being a direct commentary on it. Season one also like had some really good redeeming story arcs. is a killer show. It's available on HBO Max, and I'm pretty sure everyone gets HBO Max for free if you have television services. Because I think I get mine. I gotta pay for it. I think I get mine for free because I have Xfinity Internet. Or maybe it's because of my phone. I don't know. I have Verizon and Xfinity. So for those of you who aren't getting HBO Max for free, I'm apparently subscribing to something else that you aren't. But I think it's it says included in my package. But I don't pay for it. Watch it. Season one's available. Season two was, I think, tentatively slated for a 2021 release pre-COVID and is now probably kicked out to 22 or 23. But season one was phenomenal. It's a show I'm for sure going to go back and watch again. I don't know that it's going to be one of those long running successful shows. I think it's gonna be kind of like Vice Principals where you get three seasons of it and that's enough.
Everett	Do they or do they not utter the name Falwell at any point? I'm just wondering, asking for a friend. I don't know. I've got another thing, Andrew.
Andrew	Do me.
Everett	As you know, I recently bought a broken watch from the 70s, a broken plastic watch from the 70s. Yes, you did. Oh, OK. And when I ordered it, I could tell from the pictures on eBay that the bracelet, the strap, uh, was un, uh, maybe not unnaturally, but, uh, uh, yellowed. It was yellowed. It's, it's a white watch with a white plastic strap, but it was the, the case of the, around the watch, the shroud around the watch head was a much, much lighter color than the strap, but I could tell it was that like particular amber color. that was due to just oxidation and aging. So I started researching this because I knew in my head there was a way to take care of yellowed plastics. You know, I know that like game boys can be refreshed after they turn yellow, but there's a chemical process.
Andrew	I've seen a guy with a pressure washer blowing stadium seats from like weathered and disgusting to fresh plastic.
Everett	Yeah. And it's not, there's actually, well, so, so Hydrogen peroxide I think is the ingredients folks use most often, but It's gonna have some structural Compromising don't you think yeah? Well you use I don't think so so peroxide will touch the surface and take out the yellow oxidants somehow and sort of restore that original color, so I started looking you know is there do I just want to use regular peroxide do I want to use peroxide and something else you know do I want to mix it with dish soap, what do I want to do? And I quickly found on Reddit people talking about shoes and there's this product called Salon Care 40. And so as my Flipper was coming, my Fortis Flipper was coming to me from England, I also on Amazon ordered a bottle, a 32 ounce bottle of this stuff called Salon Care 40. It is, I believe what it is, is a thickening agent for hair color. So you're coloring your hair, you can use this stuff. It'll pull some of your color out while giving space for the dye to go in. I, long story short, I got my, I got my watch in, strap was broken. No need to apply salon care 40 to this, but I have an old pair of Nike SB, like SB dunks that had white soles and the white on the soles, they're still in really good shape, but the white on the soles had turned yellow. And so I was like, well, the shoe guys all use this stuff. That's where I found it. So I just kind of on a whim, cause I had this stuff and I kind of wanted to use it just on a whim. I taped up the suede. on these on these shoes and just kind of painted on the outsides of these shoes. I painted this stuff on just with a cheap paintbrush, kind of a thick layer, and then I stuck them in my backyard in a place where I thought they would get the most sun, and I went to work and came back and they look brand new.
Andrew	So Simple Green Guy's been lying to you, right?
Everett	Maybe. Maybe. I was absolutely blown away. So the next day, of course, I did the other side. And I mean, you can tell these things have still been like worn and abraded a little a little bit. But these the soles, the out soles, that rubber strip that goes around was like amber colored. Afterwards, completely, shockingly, like they were brand new white.
Andrew	Why didn't you take before and afters?
Everett	I don't know, I just didn't think about it. It was just kind of a whim.
Andrew	I mean, I have other shoes I could do this to, but... I do so many things on a whim that I take pictures of. I know, I know, I do. Just in the event that maybe I'll become Insta-famous. Ooh, that couldn't have been good. Everything's fine. Amateur hour. I remember the Simple Green guy coming door-to-door to my house as a kid. Billy Mays came to your house? Like a door-to-door salesman, not Billy himself. by one of his agents.
Everett	If Billy Mays had come to my house, I'd have kidnapped him, put him in my basement.
Andrew	Yeah, he still would have wound up dead. Uh, and the guy like I, for some reason, walked through the living room. My mom's like listening to his pitch. My mom bought all manner of, that was her schtick door to door. We have a, we had a Kirby when I was a kid.
Everett	Nice. Cause the door to door guy.
Andrew	Uh, but he's like, Hey son, come on over here. It's a weird thing to call a person. And I couldn't have been more than like nine. Let me see your shoe. And I'm a kid, so my shoes are fucked up and nasty. Yeah, yeah. And he sprays my shoe down, like the outsole, and wipes it. And I look at it, and I was like, well, that's some kind of sorcery. Because then there was just like this white, clean stripe on the outsole of my shoe. My mom subsequently bought like his inventory. Yeah. But didn't clean the rest of those shoes.
Everett	So the trick with this stuff is it's UV activated. So the reaction happens in the sun. Um, if I'd been thinking or under a UV head lamp thing, yeah, you can do, they make like UV light strips. People will like fit up.
Andrew	I was thinking at a salon where you put the can over your head.
Everett	Oh yeah. Yeah. Well they, I think, uh, like what the shoe guys, some of the shoe guys do is they have like clear, uh, rubber made totes that they like will line and tin foil. and then and then inside the tinfoil put uv led strips so it just creates like an led bath um but for my purposes just two days sitting in the sun probably ruin the leather because they got all hella baked but but the outsoles look good whatever so yeah i was amazed if you have yellowed plastic salon care for you i'm sure that there's other products that do the same thing But the salon care 40 I bought was like 11 bucks for a lifetime supply.
Andrew	Yeah. If you had to say how many, cause it's, cause the one you sent me is 20 bucks for 32 ounce.
Everett	Both sides less than an ounce total. Okay.
Andrew	Yeah. So lifetime supply.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. That would, that would be my guess. I mean, I poured it into a ramekin and it was just like a, and then I brushed it on and I set it in the sun and they came out wide as can be.
Andrew	Wow. Yeah. Look at you.
Everett	Yeah. No, no. Andrew, what do you want to talk about before we hang up the phone on these kind, kind people?
Andrew	I'm out of things, man.
Everett	I always want to sing when you say I'm all out of things.
Unknown	I know.
Everett	Hey guys, thanks for joining us for this episode of 1420, The Watch Clicker Podcast. Check us out at watchclicker.com. That's the website. Every single episode of this podcast, as well as reviews and articles and other fun wordy type things. Check us out on Instagram at 40 and 20 at watch clicker. If you want to support the show, you can do so at patreon.com slash 40 and 20. That's how we pay for really everything that we use to make this show, including hardware and software and all of our hosting needs as well as Andrew's boat wraps. Not camera stuff. And don't forget to check us out next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Andrew	Bye-bye.