Episode 140 - Interview with Chris Boudreaux from Vero Watch Company

Published on Wed, 30 Jun 2021 22:05:46 -0700

Synopsis

This is a podcast conversation with Chris Boudreaux, the founder and owner of Vero Watch Company, a Portland-based watch brand. They discuss the brand's recent pivot from in-house manufacturing to outsourcing production, the design inspiration and features of their new "Open Water" dive watch, and the future direction of the brand. Chris shares insights into the design process, challenges faced, and the brand's focus on creating watches for specific activities and lifestyles.

Transcript

Speaker
Everett Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your host, Andrew. I'm a good friend Everett here. We talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Andrew Good, man. I was a little creepy on the fade in there.
Everett It looked like you were going to come in way hot. You were about 30% higher in volume. And then you were like, no, no, no, I'm going to back it right back down. I was like, oh gosh, I was just tentative on the whole thing.
Andrew I was like bracing myself for the assault. No, I'm good, man. I'm good. It's, gosh, we are cool. It was 80-something in Eugene today, which is... Hot, hot, hot, hot. 80-something is a tremendous relief from where we've been. You know, we were at 113 in town on Sunday. Which was not nice. We were mid-90s yesterday, but I... Also not nice. I made the decision to go east. It's a trip that's been planned for a really long time, but we went a few miles east and it was 115 degrees there. So I played 18 to 18 holes in, it's the hottest, that's probably the hottest golf I'll ever play. Unless I go to like Palm Springs in the summer and play or something.
Everett Why would you go to Palm Springs in the summer and play golf?
Andrew I don't know, but it's a Vegas in August. Let's do it. It's in the realm of possibility. Uh, but yeah, so, uh, I'm, I'm, wearing a sweatshirt right now. And sweats. I know. It just felt good. I just felt good to put the warm clothes on.
Everett I napped under a blanket today. Yeah. A fleece blanket.
Andrew Man, see? In the 80s. I feel broken. It's all coming around. But yeah, I've been good. Wife's out of town. She actually called me and said, you know, have you been, has the house been cool enough at night? And I was like, yeah, babe, I've had the house at 68 degrees through the heat wave. The gas bill is going to be crazy. Don't at me. Yeah. You're not here.
Everett Uh, yeah. How are you? Uh, good. Also surviving the heat wave. Uh, had to do a little bit of tweaking. It's all the bedrooms in my house are in the upstairs. Yeah, that's right. So had to do a little bit of, uh, experimentation with fans and airflow to just get air circulation. Sure. Uh, and we're there. We're dialed in. So now for pleasant, it's not. Yeah. And we have, we have a window open up here, which is nice. We've got a nice breeze coming in, uh, watching the sunset. Yeah.
Andrew Watching the sunset over the West Eugene hills.
Everett It's a little cloudy today. Sometimes we get a really good sunset view. Um, pink sky at night, man. I'm good. And also surviving the heat. Uh, I'm, I'm not a, I'm not built for heat. So what does that, what does that mean? It means that like North of 70 degrees, I, I start to get tantrum-y and I hate it.
Andrew I get covered. What does that have to do with your build?
Everett Well, like I'm genetically predisposed to live in the Arctic climates. I get heat rash at 70 degrees, man. I like Sunday, I went outside only because we had beer with Luke. Otherwise, I would not have gone outside. Oh, yeah, that was fun.
Andrew We met up. We met up with Luke Albert, the G Shock man himself. Yeah, that was a blast. Rolled through town. I mean, really, Holler, if you're in town, we're going to be in or around Eugene. Holler, and we'll meet up with you, unless you're weird, and then we might not.
Everett We won't know until we meet up with you, though, so holler. That's right. And then if you come back through and we're busy, you'll know. That's right. That's right. Whoa, whoa. We should be done with our part.
Andrew Yeah, I don't want to talk to you anymore. I don't blame you. That's not true. I do want to talk to you, but I also want to talk to the man that we've got on the line here, Chris Boudreaux, the man, the founder, the owner, VeriWatch Company, has joined us once again. Chris, how the heck are you?
Chris Boudreaux I'm doing good. Thanks for having me.
Andrew This is what we do. This is actually what we do.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. I mean, I shouldn't act surprised, right?
Andrew Chris, it's been what? I'm actually looking it up right now. I think it's been about a year and a half since we last saw you. We came up to your shop in Portland and sat down with you and Danny. And talk to watches, manufacturing, 5-axis, milling machines, CNC machines, the full mill deal. One of, I think, my favorite 40 and 20 days of all time. But stuff has changed.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah.
Andrew Yeah. Stuff has changed.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. It's definitely a little different. A little different. You know, we were talking a little bit before, you know, we, we sort of, as we spend some time, I mean, obviously there, there's a lot of reasons we can get into it, but you know, I think ultimately like one of the big things we found was like with, with customers and with like the experience was okay. Yeah. Like doing this, like these couple of things were cool. And when you come in the shop, like it was cool to see, but like, things like the support, you know, like the, the warranty, the service, the communication, like, and the design. I mean, that stuff is really where people come back and where people stay.
Andrew So to back up, for those of you listening who are not familiar with Vero, Vero's a Portland, Oregon-based watch company. very close to us, which is why I think we've had a close relationship. Uh, you guys were kind of, uh, founded on the idea of a company that makes all its own shit, right?
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think, um, you know, when I, when I sort of had the idea and when me and Danny had first started and we were like, Hey, we're going to do this, we're going to make watches, you know, for me it was, it was very much like, um, you know, I want to be able to do this. I want to, I want to be able to like design a watch and, you know, put it this way. And like, you know, I, we had a lot of ideas and it was like, okay, now we got to figure out like how it's going to get made, who we're going to work with. And, you know, Danny being like the genius that he is, um, was just like, Oh, we could just make it, you know? And, um, and you did, and that's, Yeah, and that's that's definitely, you know, something. And I said, well, I don't like how would you make it? You know, and he's like, well, we, you know, get these machines and we would do it. And, you know, and he's like I said, he's extremely extreme guy and he could just like teach himself how to work machines. And and so, yeah, so so I think that, you know, in a sense, like, yeah, it was, you know, that that sort of became our calling card. But for me, it was really about like, well, we want to be able to make what we want to make. You know, it was definitely important for me to like not have anything off the shelf, not to pick something from somewhere, you know. And so, you know, so as kind of things got a little crazy, you know, last year, we don't have to rehash, you know, if this is played and you know, 10 years then, but, uh, you know, but, uh, but you know, we had to make, you know, we had to make some decisions and, and people had to kind of figure out what we're going to do. And, and, you know, yeah, it was, it was either, you know, it was, it was a decision we had to make about like, what, what was really important. And, you know, for me, one keeping Vero, the brand alive was really important. Um,
Everett Yeah. Well, so with that, when you talk about making a decision, you're in this position where you're one of the few American watch brands who can be super nimble in your short inventory releases. You can drop a line of 10, 20, 30 watches feasibly every month.
Andrew Prototype them in-house. Design, prototype.
Everett There's obviously limitations, but you can be super nimble, constant releases. You can do all these things, but that also seems to me to be a little bit of a burden. You're limited by how unlimited your potential is.
Chris Boudreaux Well, Yes and no.
Everett So... Because it's by scale. We were in the shop, there's two machines. You can't do these huge runs of 1000 watches, but a 100 run line seems really manageable.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah, yeah, for sure. And yeah, the thing that I found that the two things... There's probably two things. And this is just being just being very honest, like behind the scenes, you know, is if I if I work with like a great manufacturer, right. And there's, you know, delays with a really small team and not a lot of overhead, you can manage that. You can go, OK, all right, well, maybe we can take our prototypes and go shoot some photos or we can do, you know, when you have delays with machines and rent and, you know, a payroll that's you know, more people and more, you know, whatever, you know, you have as many or more delays, but every two weeks, you know, this big chunk sort of comes. And then the other thing is, the other thing is, you know, you have an idea, but, you know, so your point, like with a couple of machines, like you end up, I think we ended up simplifying things more than maybe we wanted to, because you're like, well, do we, you know, to tool up for that, to figure out how to make that work. Um, you know, even just, just, you know, dial dials, like Roger who did our dials was great. I mean, he was, but with the resources we gave him, it was a slow process. Sure. I mean, it was not, it was not a knock it out and go. Yeah.
Andrew They were like, like custom made pad printing machines, right?
Chris Boudreaux Yeah, it was. Yeah. And it's cool.
Andrew I mean, like, look, don't get super fucking cool.
Chris Boudreaux It was cool. Yeah. But you know, So, you know, I was saying like to look at like the current watches to kind of jump ahead to what we have now. We had this watch idea, this watch design, even the colors, they've been picked for years.
Andrew And so we're talking about the open water now.
Chris Boudreaux The open water, yeah. But we just didn't have like we couldn't with the machines we have, like we couldn't build a bracelet like this kind of bracelet. Was that just a function of... Little things that were really important about
Everett of too many pieces. It just wasn't cost effective. It wasn't time effective to go in and machine each link by link.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah, you literally needed different machines. Things like our ability to properly loom fill and build indices and have things like that. Um, you know, the, the rotating this to see click the rotating bezel that just the way the watch wanted, we wanted to come together. I mean, it was a struggle because it was like a watch. Like I wanted to have this watch and wanted to have this diver in it. And you know, it was just not something we were able to do. And so I think we ended up having a lot of that where we were like, Oh, this would be really cool. This would be so fun. You know? And then you're like, but yeah, we're not going to do that. So you're like, Okay. You know, and then, you know, so then you kind of like, then you kind of, I think you ended up putting yourself in a, like, you end up designing around capabilities versus like designing, like what you really want to put into the world. Um, so yeah.
Andrew So, so at some point, I mean, I feel like maybe it, uh, in my mind, it must've been a big decision, but I'm not sure hearing you talk like it was at some point you made the decision to actually build this manufacturer, this case, this watch. out of out of house, as it were. How did how did you come to that decision?
Chris Boudreaux So honestly, like that, the truth is like the sort of COVID thing really, I think pushed it to kind of push it to the point we, we had actually already started talking to this manufacturer that we worked with. On this watch, we had already been in conversations with him about producing this watch. I was like, we're not going to be able to do it. So maybe we make this production run with someone else. And then I kind of went, it's like, but maybe we, you know, we do all the regulation, you know, we still do all the warranty. So, and so the, the idea was kind of like, Hey, we're going to introduce this like non, you know, in-house case or in-house style production watch in conjunction. And then, you know, with, with sort of everything being shut down and, you know, when you have a business that requires people to come inside and we were trying to, you know, we'd have a person, cause it was a serious situation, you know, now we're kind of getting on the other side, but, you know, we'd have one person in and then they would leave and another person. And we had, you know, you know, there are a lot of rules on how, what you could do as far as keeping people inside a building. And so.
Everett Well, even staffing.
Chris Boudreaux I mean, yeah. Yeah. And so, so again, like everyone was really cool and we had open conversations and like, you know, Danny, because he's, you know, so smart, obviously had, you know, other opportunities. You know, the rest of our staff had options. You know, Kane is still our watchmaker. He's still on the team. Andrea, who is doing like case finishing for us. Yeah, she's actually extremely creative, extremely smart, too. And so she's she's stayed on and has really taken more of like a lot of the creative and email and uh, uh, like social media content stuff. Like, so I'll post, but she'll create a lot of things. So, you know, and Danny helped, you know, kind of helped us to transition, to get the website, the new website going. So it was all, I think, pretty positive for the fact that you're kind of shutting down the way you do things. Um, but I think like, you know, we've, I think we've had a lot of fun because we've had, we've been able to do things that are maybe a little more on wheelhouse. Like the, photos, the stories, the design, the, you know, even just being able to like, you know, ship product, you know, like, um, it, yeah, it's, it was the right, it was a tough call. It was a tough decision, but you know, it was the right decision for us.
Andrew So, well, so let's, let's talk about the watch. Let's talk about the open water because I think it is one of the cooler, affordable watches to come out this year.
Everett And can I tell a really good story about it? I have to interrupt you because it's an important story. Yeah. So Will had the green one in Pennsylvania. Yes. Not Pennsylvania. He is in New Jersey. No. He is in Pennsylvania. He lives in Jersey. He's the East, East town. I know. So I, um, Will had it and he messaged you and asked if you could send it to me. And I was like, and you're like, yeah, okay. Send it to, send it to them for whatever reason. You're, you trust us. Uh, I totally forgot about it. totally forgot that he was sending me the watch. Yeah. And around the same time, I had two other shipments come in of review pieces land at my house, and I just assumed that one of them was from Will, and then a FedEx package came to my door from Will, and I was like, What the fuck did Will send me? And I was like, This is awesome. I'm so excited. I don't even know what's in here. And I opened it up, and I was like, I just I saw the top of the box, and it was fucking Christmas. I opened the box, that green man that we talk shit on green dial watches regularly because so few are good, like they're almost universally bad. Yeah, this is the green watch for me. Yeah, I open it up, I saw that green and I was just like, this is the best day ever. And then Everett came to my house about a half an hour later and he took it from me and Everett has had it since. He's had it since, but I've I don't know the last time I opened up a watch package and saw a watch and felt that response. It was unbelievable.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. That's awesome to hear. I mean, that's the dream. To kind of tie it back to what we were just talking about, to be able to have customers that have sent us similar things, to me, that's that justifies everything we did. Because we have people that are like, it's their favorite watch. And I'm just like, man, that's not that something else wasn't, but I just, yeah, I feel like we put out what we wanted to put out. And yeah, I'm I love to hear that stuff. I did. It really is like makes my day. So it's really cool.
Everett Tell us a story of it. Well, I mean, you said it's years in the works. Let's let's hear it.
Andrew Yeah, well, what were you trying for this watch? I mean, I know we have our ideas about what it's good for. But
Chris Boudreaux Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, so, so, you know, part of it started with the name, right? Like open water was like, you know, okay, our, our version of a diver, you know, doing a diver and bringing in like all the things you see about diving and stuff. It just didn't feel authentic, like, you know, not a diver, you know, and, and diving for the sake of deep water diving was just not like,
Andrew But like, yeah, I noticed there was no helium escape valve on this watch.
Chris Boudreaux Right. Yeah. Cause your body doesn't need that. Right. Um, you know, and, and so, but, but when you get to like, you know, what was funny was a lot of how it started was like, you know, like a bracelet, like for a long time, it was called like the bracelet watch, because it was like, what looks better on a bracelet than like a you know, a big bezel and like those slick lines and that, that the way it, you know, comes to a point when it's on your wrist, the taper, it just like it was, it was cool. And then, you know, so then we started thinking like, okay, what's not a, it's not for diving. So it's not doesn't have to be wrapped over, you know, like, maybe it can go under a wetsuit, you know, and so that's more about open water activity. So we're like, so that's, you know, like the low profile, the curves, you know, things we've, we've kind of learned are important to us over the years to keep it really low. And so, you know, so that that was sort of the inspiration for like it being about open water to be about, you know, swimming, paddling, surfing, you know, that kind of like water activity.
Andrew Um, this is less of a Mariana trench watch and more of a things somebody is actually going to do on a weekend watch.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so, you know, so for us, like, so yeah, so much of it came down to like Clint, you know, clean looks and clean angles and curve on the wrist. Like the feel is really, really important to me. Um, you know, fit and feel is something, you know, being able to, prototype in house for all those years, I think we realized like how big of a deal it makes when you're wearing it. And so, um, so that, that was kind of like, that was the, the, the thought. And then, you know, you, you have that fear, right? Like you're talking about like, if I just put it on paper, a green dial diver, it's like, you know, you could just imagine, you know, do we, is that what we need? Um, and so, but we thought it was cool. We thought it, we thought it was a unique take on, something that's been done. And it's been really, really nice to like have that, at least have like some of that validation from, you know, reviews from podcasts, from customers, like to be like, Oh, this is a unique take on a diver. Cause you know, when you're trying to do it kind of in a subtle way, it can, you know, it could be just another diver. And, and I, it seems like the response is that it's not, you know, that people really like it and are into it. So.
Andrew So I, so I note that when I go to the website, there's only two options available. I assume that means that our green, the famed green dial is, is maybe short on stock. Uh, but you, you do have three colors. You've got the blue, AKA the crown point. You've got the gray, AKA the North coast.
Everett Yeah. Right. Cause cause doing an awesome green dial wasn't enough. You're like, Oh, by the way, we're going to, we're also going to land the, the best colorway available and that it's not available in the market with a gray dial. You killed it with colors.
Andrew Talk us through the color decisions.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. So, you know, we, we, we kind of, you know, we kind of go on our Portland inspiration, you know, for, for all three. And so, you know, so when we looked at like, you know, it wasn't, you know, there's two sides to it, right? There's like, you know, with the North coast, for example, like, you know, that that's like my, that's what I wear. That's the watch that I wear 90% of the time. I just love it. Um, you know, and, and it, it was, you know, kind of that inspiration for, you know, for me with my background of like these like foggy mornings and he's like race mornings and there's like the hints of blue coming out and the clouds. And, you know, so just the idea of this like really tonal, you know, sort of Matt on Matt on Matt, you know, with just little pops, um, You know, so North coast, it's just like, you know, that that's what it is. If you're, you know, if you wake up in the morning on, you know, you know, to me, it was like, to me, it was like kind of like race day. It was, it was the other sort of like, you know, not like it was like inspiration, but, um, it feels like the morning, especially around here, it feels like the morning of that third leg when you're doing hood to coast.
Andrew Right. That's right.
Chris Boudreaux Exactly.
Andrew That's North coast. Yeah.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. And that's a, yeah. And that's a very, like, that's a very Northwest thing versus like a clear sky. Like if it was in Arizona, it'd be a, you know, very different color.
Andrew You're hanging out at the Grange getting, getting hot, hot chocolate. And, uh, only hood to coast runners will know that reference, but 5.30 in the morning, Northwest Oregon on the coast. Everything's gray. Yeah. I dig it, man.
Everett Everything's gray, not just 5.30 in the morning. Everything's gray.
Chris Boudreaux And when you get those little hints, you know, you get those hints of blue and you get the, you know, it's, it's just, yeah. So that was kind of there. Um, the, the crown point, so crown point it's a, it's a lookout in the gorge.
Andrew Um, one of the prettiest places on earth.
Chris Boudreaux And so it was sort of like the blue looking down from, from the crown point, um, of the water. Um, obviously it has to be the right light and the right, whatever, but you know, so, so kind of having that, that combination of that teal and Navy, you know, where there's that those hints of green, but it still feels like really rich and really dark. And for me, you know, uh, all those years, like cycling and stuff, like, you know, if you're riding out in the gorge, like you're always going to stop at Crown Point, you're always going to go. So it's like, it's a place that, you know, like, you know, that it's a highlight of, of that, you know, ride, or it's a turnaround point of that ride. And, um, and so that was something that was, you know, had a cool name, had a, you know, connection to the color, but was also a sort of personal connection. And then. Um, you know, the, the Ridge trail is the, the St. John's bridge, the green iconic St. John's bridge.
Andrew Um, so, so stop, if you haven't seen this, stop, not you, not you, you don't have to stop Chris, you at home, stop and pull up a picture of the Vero open water Ridge trail, and then pull up a picture of the St. John's bridge and just, and just side by side them because you guys fucking nailed it.
Everett Yes.
Chris Boudreaux Thank you. And yeah, and so Ridge Trail is that trail on the on the west side of of the bridge in Portland that you take and you get that view. So we have that picture, that view. And that's from Ridge Trail. And so so that was that was the inspiration there. And that was the color choice. And
Andrew Also, St. John's Bridge, one of the prettiest things on the face of the earth. I mean, it's this, you know, I think people think of Oregon, Portland in particular, of being a really sort of 20th century city, right? Because for all intents and purposes, it is. It is. But St. John's Bridge is like a relic from another time. It's the, you know, one of the oldest bridges in Portland, and it's just stunning. Absolutely gorgeous.
Chris Boudreaux We used to put on the, um, we used to put on in my past life, we used to put on the city of Portland triathlon and that started, that was at the St. John's bridge. We ran up and down the bridge. You swam from the dock underneath and, you know, and, and that, I mean, you talk about, yeah, like when it's morning, you know, the sun's coming up and it's a clear day. It's like, it just, yeah, it just draws your eye. And so like, um, yeah, it definitely feels like, like, you know, people who've seen it or people who are familiar with it like it's a it's an instant connection and you know and then the other side of it too was like okay it's cool to have this like local inspiration but it needs to still feel like everyone's gonna have like you know it it's still got to be cool like it's still got to be like I mean we sell we move a lot we we sell a lot of watches not in Oregon like you know a lot more not in Oregon and so you know it's It can have inspiration as long as it.
Andrew It's actually still good.
Chris Boudreaux As long as it looks good. If you don't know the story, you know, so that's, that's important to me too.
Andrew We'll move on from St. John's bridge. But, but if you've ever, one more thing about St. John's bridge, if you've ever run the Portland marathon, if you've ever run the Portland marathon, all one of you who's done that, two of you really big marathon and it's back, it's back people. If you know, if you know about the Portland marathon, it's back, but mile 17. Mile 17, you start this ascent, and it's about, what, two-thirds of a mile, Chris? It's a solid half a mile, if not more, where you climb up to and then across the St. John's Bridge. And it's early enough that you don't hate life, and late enough that you feel every bit of that hill. But it is glorious when you get to the top of that St. John's Bridge. They've got it marked, you know, this is the highest point. And it's not, in terms of hills, it's not.
Everett uh particularly devastating but i did the bridge pedal in portland and i did the long loop that included the saint john's bridge and i'd know that hill on a bicycle and i wouldn't be running it at 17 miles pretty glorious so so well well so three amazing colors no black dial i know no no black down he says nope with confidence uh yeah
Chris Boudreaux It's not never, but no black dial. Yeah, it was.
Everett Yeah, there's other black dials out there. You did something different, and I think something that I really appreciated about this design was the the finishing you chose for the case and bracelet perfectly complements all of the colors that you've decided to go with. Thank you. This just, this feels like a watch that you wear to do these outdoor activities and adventures.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And you know that, that's like one of the things that I think has been really, really cool. Um, is like the tagging that we've been getting, like the people that tag us on Instagram or, or honestly people that just like, we have people that just, you know, um, like send us pictures and it's almost like, It's almost like people like they get it like the pictures. It's always like them. They're doing something like they're going somewhere and they're like, oh, I was out at the beach and here's the watch like, oh, hey, I went for this hike and here it is here and it's pretty cool because we don't, you know, we didn't, we haven't done like a, hey, tag us, send a, you know, photo of you doing something like it's just like, yeah, it's like, it's, it seems like people are feeling like, you know, even the, like the, your terrific review, like, You know, he's like, I went out on the trail. I had to go out and reach out. Like I, I had to get out and go hike because I got this watch.
Andrew And if you haven't watched your terrific on Instagram, that guy's a fantastic photographer. It makes great, great YouTube videos.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah, it was, it was a really cool, like really complimentary and good stuff. But yeah, I mean, I think it's just cool. Like, it's cool to see that because yeah, people like people are kind of like taking their own, like, they're just doing it, you know, they're just going out and like,
Andrew like doing fun stuff and taking the watch with them and sharing it and it's pretty it's pretty sweet you know it's pretty putting it into his in its natural habitat well when i'll say yeah it's the type of watch and and you know we don't need to belabor belabor these points but it's the type of watch you put on and it feels like uh it feels like a an uh i won't say athletic but it feels like a sport watch right between the finish and between the fit to your wrist uh it feels sporty
Everett It feels almost like, for those of you who have tried on the bull of a curve, it hugs your wrist the same way the curve does.
Andrew I'm not sure if I should admit this with Chris on the line here, but I did wear that watch out for a round of golf. I wore it to play 18 holes and it's not my watch. It's your watch. Sorry, Chris. I hope I didn't mess up the movement.
Chris Boudreaux No, please do. That's great.
Andrew People send us hate DMs because I golf in mechanical watches, but in any event, I put it on and I went and played golf and it felt great. Uh, but what, what, so, so talk us through a little bit of the, the specific design decisions. You know, I'm thinking of a few things where, you know, I'm thinking of the bezel, I'm thinking of the sort of dog bowl shape on the case. I'm thinking about the curve of the, the watch head to the lugs, to the bracelet. Um, talk us through some of those design decisions and what you guys were going for and maybe some more specifics, the dirty details there.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. Um, you know, yeah, to your point, like, you know, keeping that hug on the wrist is like really important. Um, you know, we, we learned that, you know, we, we pretty much always want the lugs to be longer than the case back, uh, if possible. Um, and a relatively short lug to lug, uh, ratio, uh, or, uh, like lug to lug length. Yeah. Um, because otherwise it starts to interrupt with that bone.
Andrew Yeah. Radius and only it's got to fit in there.
Chris Boudreaux That, you know, annoying wrist bone. Yeah. And so, um, You know, so, so then, you know, so then you start getting into like, okay, it has to kind of be, you know, this short and it has to go like this, you know, how do we keep it from getting too high? Because, you know, one from aesthetic point of view, I mean, there's some watches that, you know, I look straight on and I'm like, oh my God, that's the most beautiful watch. And I look at it from the side. I'm like, I know I can't wear it just because I know how top heavy it will feel. Like a Zen, like a Zen 104. Yeah, I would not call out anything specifically.
Andrew You can call out Zen. You can call out Zen.
Chris Boudreaux They're a mega company. No. Obviously, we have some similarities. That's when you start getting into where that bezel goes, how it follows that downward angle of the curve, and then why we want a flat sapphire. Um, you know, to, to keep it, you know, keep it at that 11. I mean, it was like as much as we could, you know, keep it compact and keep it tight. Um, you know, something that's sort of like inherently chunky and inherently kind of big and top heavy to, to bring it down. So, I mean, a lot of it was just based, you know, just based there. Like it's just, you know, it's, it's understanding how it's going to feel when you have it on, which means you're going to wear it more, which means you're going to be more loyal, you know, Yeah. Um, and then, you know, and then aesthetically to like, there's just like, you know, there's something when you, when you expect it to look a certain way from the side and it doesn't, you know, and I think like when it starts to really have some depth through the side, you know, and that's something where you're like, you know, that not, that's not going to be what most people are going to pick up online. And you just have to trust, you just have to trust that it's important enough to do it, that it's going to matter later. And so, you know, those kind of things, um, you know, those kinds of things are important. Um, you know, the black crown, just cause I thought it was cool. Um, and also to like, it looked better when it landed, you took a risk and it landed. Yeah. When you, when you beef up that knurling like that, it can look a little, I don't know. It doesn't, it's not quite as slick and the steel and the, the, the, the black just pops. And yeah, I mean, you know, some, Yeah, someone could hate it, but we like it.
Andrew You can't make a watch for every person.
Everett All right. Yeah. So with this huge pivot that you've done in the last year and a half, going from being able to prototype, test, produce, all in-house, how did it feel prototyping, going through the process outsourced. Were you still doing, cause I don't know, but do you still have any, any capabilities, any manufacturing capabilities in-house?
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. So, so we still, you know, obviously we still regulate, we still do all the warranty in-house. We still do all the service. So we're, we're regulating the watches before they go out. We actually can do case and bracelet refinishing. We still have that equipment. Okay, yeah, we have, we have a lot of ability to work. But, but not like the big machines actually build.
Everett I'm wondering you personally, though, how you Chris felt going from being able to manage all that in house, see it all done, you know, throw a hunk of metal in the machine that afternoon, try it on, make some tweaks to that transition of lead time of that wait time of what are they going to do? How's this going to turn out? How's that? How's that feel? Like, was there any questioning along the process of like, Am I doing the right thing? Or were you just you were into it, you knew this was the right move. And you were comfortable with that transition?
Chris Boudreaux Um, you know, no, I mean, it was tough. I mean, it's tough. Um, it's, uh, you know, obviously, it does, it takes time, and you put a lot of trust and in someone and Um, you know, it was difficult. I mean, and we had, I mean, we had a pretty significant delay on this watch. I mean, obviously because of the situation. Um, and you know, what I told myself was, I was like, you know, look, I've got to be willing to like, you know, no watch is ever perfect. Right. You can nitpick for, 10 years and never get your watch. And there are guys that do that, right? They just, they're never satisfied and they never really get it out there. Um, but, but I did have to sort of say, you know what, like if this isn't right, like we are going to get it right. And, um, you know, and we made significant changes from the first now they did a great job. It, you know, it wasn't, Oh, they did it bad. And then we, we got them straight. No, they, you know, They were, it was a good company who, and, and I trust them and they did a great job but we, when we got the watch and the wrist yeah we were like, oh you know like the, the, the cut you know there's kind of a unique cut for the crown guards and it was different, you know, as the way we originally designed it aesthetically was really cool but practically it was not cool. the, the knurling and even, you know, like some of the colors, like we're just not, you know, there were, there were just changes that had to be made and you know, and that can push you back. You guys.
Andrew 30 days, 45 days, 60 days. More than longer. Yeah.
Everett I mean, right now with, with, with supply chain lead time, that might be three months.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah, it was, they were significant. And, you know, and even like, even now, you know, as we're going into like, you know, things that are coming down the road, You know, it's tough because you do, you know, you have to find that balance between, hey, I'm going to be patient or hey, it's in their hands and also just being willing to say like, you know what, this is going to take another six months or so.
Andrew Well, two more things that I know I want to talk about.
Everett Yeah, we're running out of time.
Andrew I know. Well, we're not running out of time. I have all night. It's our podcast. Yeah. Chris told me he's good until like one in the morning. There's no rules. So first thing I want to talk about, so we've got the Vero open water. I think this is sort of the first watch in this next phase of Vero. What is, to the extent that you're willing to share your secrets with us, Chris, and it's just the three of us, listen.
Everett No, yeah.
Andrew It's just the three of us. Everett's mom now too. Yeah, and my mom. What is next for Vero?
Chris Boudreaux Part of the new direction is to just make sure that we're making watches that excite us as far as the activity they're for and the design having its own take on things. From my personal taste, I don't like anything to be too crazy. I'm not trying to do something weird for the sake of being weird. but also to do something that feels authentic. And so, you know, so the next, you know, we have a few other things that are related to what we're doing now. And we've got something a little bit different. We've got something that's a little bit kind of funky and a little bit fun. And, you know, it'll probably have, you know, it'll probably have, you know, an interesting reaction. Um, I I'm excited about it. Um, the, the people that we've shared with are excited about it. Um, and I think it all works together when we, when we sort of tell that story. Um, but really it was just like, you know, we sort of have like, you know, we started to think about things in terms of like, um, activity. And so, uh, you know, so a dive watch, you know, a dive style watch kind of implies certain activities and has certain functions. And then I said, you know, well, It's probably limited in certain scenarios. So like what would we use there? And so that's what's next.
Andrew Like a pogo stick watch is what you're thinking. Yeah, you nailed it.
Everett I am really good at this. What about like titanium? What's that? Are you thinking about like titanium? No. No.
Chris Boudreaux Okay. And you know, we've done, I mean, we did the LE with Warner One in Thai. No, it's, it's hard to say. I hate, I'm not trying to be super secretive, but I feel like, I feel like you have to see it all together. Like if I start to describe it, you're going to be like, what?
Andrew This guy's nuts.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. It's kind of sounds weird, but, um, but I think it's cool. Um, and then, you know, so we have that, um, and then, you know, we're looking at what, you know, this has been great. Like this, this open water release has been very positive. Um, And so, you know, there's other right there. Like for us, you know, we don't ever want to put out six different things at once. It's just not, it's not our style. Not what we're into. But you know, when you, when you have something that people like, you go, yeah, but would you like this? You know, like, oh, hey, we didn't, we didn't do this. There's, you know, And you probably take a few more chances and you probably, you know, take a few more risks. But yeah, I mean, I think I think, you know, we're just we're sort of like trying to design with activity in mind and design with like, you know, create things that we think are kind of cool stories.
Andrew So well, so speaking of well, so speaking of because the one thing we haven't talked about, which I think has been a huge thing for Vero and I think is a really neat, a neat concept, an idea.
Everett I think we might be saying it wrong. Can you say your brand name?
Chris Boudreaux Vero.
Everett Vero. He's saying Vero. Vero.
Andrew That's okay. Sorry. I will say our listeners, we have many listeners who get upset about my pronunciation of the word. Don't even say it. Aesthetic. And you've been saying it correct. So, and I say it all the time and I mispronounce it and people get mad. So people will be happy that we had someone that can properly pronounce the word aesthetic.
Everett Aesthetic.
Chris Boudreaux Aesthetic.
Everett There's a TH right in the middle of the word.
Andrew Vero Athletic Society. Yeah. I want to know about it. I want to know what it is. I want to know what it means. Tell me more. Yeah.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. So, um, so that it, it, it was sort of an in conjunction with, um, You know, it's sort of thinking about things as far as like activity and sport.
Andrew And maybe some context, right? The people who will listen to your first episode know that you're a former professional triathlete, that you had a running store in Portland called the Runner's Lounge, right? Running? Athlete's Lounge. Athlete's Lounge, excuse me.
Chris Boudreaux It's a little bit more than runners. Right.
Andrew It's a little bit bigger. Also Pogo stickers. Also Pogo stickers. They were welcome. You've got a background in serious athletic activities, personally. And I think, based on our prior conversations, that Vero's always been focused on that part of your life. And I know Danny is a huge bicycle rider as well, because I follow him on Instagram, and I see him and his wife on Instagram biking.
Everett Not like double-decker bicycles, but like an avid bicyclist.
Andrew That's right. So... No, it's big bucks. Literally big bucks. Double-deckers, always. In the context of that, so just that's for the listeners at home, some context.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, and it's right now, it's, you know, it's pretty straightforward as far as like, you know, it's, you know, it's apparel that we thought You know, I kind of had, I kind of had this, this idea where we said like, um, you know, part of, so hopefully this doesn't, this isn't too off topic, but I think it circles back is, um, I did a thing at the beginning of this like pandemic with, um, it was like a micro brand zoom call with, uh, you know, people and brands and, uh, Chase Fancher's, uh, independent together.
Andrew Yeah.
Chris Boudreaux Exactly. Great guy, great brand. Um, and he, he invited me there and, uh, uh, that I was kind of like in a very like, what doing spot, honestly. And I almost didn't even join. Cause I was like, why would I, what, I don't even know what I'm gonna talk about. And we were, we were there. And, uh, the guy from, uh, fears is someone asked him about making a diver. And, uh, he said, well, I can't swim. So why would I make a diver, which is funny and, you know, and he's funny, right. He delivers it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, he's, yeah, he's great. And, uh, and I was like, just kind of, I was like, oh, I can teach you how to swim. Like I was a swim coach at Nike for years.
Andrew I remember this interaction. It was awesome.
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. And, and I was like, and so it was just the offhand like, yeah, I'll teach us when I can do that. And then I was like, I was like, you know what? Like, that's what we should be doing. Like we should be going like, we should like, like me standing at a watch show in a polo for 10 hours is just, it's exhausting for me. It's, it's not my favorite thing. I love watches. I love the community, but just trying to sell my watches to people, just, I just don't like it. Um, and so it kind of occurred to me, I'm like, you know what, we're not the brand that needs to, like, we don't have to be like everyone else, like We should go do stuff. Like we should go do stuff. We should just like all get together and like wear our watches and go do things. Like red bar, but like sweaty red bar. Sounds hot. Yeah.
Andrew Listen, we're going to have to put a warning at the beginning of the podcast, right?
Everett We already have the explicit markers.
Chris Boudreaux Sweaty red bar. I'm going to copyright that one.
Andrew Hey, I'm coming. I'm coming. Yeah. You're going to stay there too. Landed it. Yes. We did a little fist bump. We did. I think that might be our first on our fist bump.
Everett No, no, it's not. Could be the best one though.
Chris Boudreaux Sweaty red bar. Carry on. Sweaty red bar. You know, so I said, I was like, Oh, I said, okay. So then, you know, I think then like the wheel started turning a little bit for me. I was like, yeah, like we should like, just go do stuff. We should like go for bike rides and go for hikes and go like fight. I don't know, you know, like just go do stuff. And, um, and then, uh, you know, and so then I thought like, okay, well it's a team, right? And like, what does the team have? Like team has gear, they have apparel. And so, you know, it was one of those things too, where I was like, you know, if you do photos and you are going doing something and it's like someone wears like a green jacket and, um, you know, or this red thing and it throws off the aesthetic of what you're trying to get. You're like, no. So, you know, it's like, okay, like what would you wear? Like you just have, you know, you have a white t-shirt, you have a white tee, like if you're gonna work out, you know? Um, and so, so it really just came out of that. It came out of like, you know, having like, team gear like that was honestly like the thing like that's just like a fun thing to have and a fun thing to be part of and it also just kind of helps set the vibe of like who we are like we're not you know we're because you know anytime you have a company you know people you know describe your customer describe your you know and and a lot of times like I say I know more what we aren't than who we are yeah but um but you know it's like hey look you know don't don't put us with a fancy car and a suit and don't put us on a yacht you know like you you know to me like having the white t or the black hoodie and having like that cool watch that pops or having like you know you you know the the right shoe the right sneakers you know but the sneak like it's it's not dress shoes it's it's you know nikes it's a cortez it's something you know like and so that was a lot of it was just like helping to like complete the vibe, complete the look. And then, you know, having a way that people kind of said, Okay, yeah, like, this is like, this is the look, this is the feel.
Everett And round out the brand identity. I mean, I think we see a lot of watch brands who their identity is wrapped up in their like, we do cool colors, we do cool designs, like it's wholly in the watch world. And I think that this dimension of the Vero watch brand rounds out the identity of it. Yeah.
Andrew And so I think you and I talked, I think maybe back in, I don't know, February or March about this. And at some point sort of once COVID is so long, once we're no longer in the death grips of COVID and life starts to resume as it seems to have been I understand this is going to become, uh, you know, a meetup, right? So we're going to do a fun run. We're going to do, uh, a bike ride, that sort of thing. So, so an opportunity for, uh, for engagement as opposed to, uh, just gear or, or just watches, this is actually going to be a group thing, right?
Everett It can be like Vero, like obstacle course runs with like, like tough riders and shit. Like team Vero, Tough Mudder.
Chris Boudreaux I did one. I did one a couple, like a month ago. Did you get the tattoo? You get a tattoo? Is there a Tough Mudder tattoo? I don't know. There is. I never got my Ironman tattoo, so maybe I'll get a Tough Mudder tattoo.
Everett I have some friends who have the Tough Mudder tattoo and it's kind of yucky.
Chris Boudreaux I did something like it. It wasn't specifically, it was like, I don't know, something. Yeah, it was something. It was a lot of, actually a lot of fun. It was a blast. And I wore the Ridge Trail on a NATO and got it super muddy. And, um, yeah, that's it.
Everett That's what it's for. I love that.
Chris Boudreaux It was, yeah. Yeah. I've, yeah, I've got like, I've got like photos from the event, but it's like, it would be, you guys would hound me if I posted them and shared them. Cause it would just be like, Oh, look at me or, you know, send them to us.
Everett We'll post them.
Chris Boudreaux But you know what I mean? Like, but it was, but we did like, I wore it, I wore it the whole, you know, I wore it for the race. And, and it was like, Yeah, that's the point. Like, it's like, it's not this like, hardcore thing. It's not like, you know, you know, whatever pro athletes, it's just, it's just like, for me, like that, that makes me feel more comfortable. Like, that's to me, like the context, like, let's go do something, then let's go have a beer, then let's go hang out.
Andrew It's a watch. It's a watch to do things. Okay, so open water 875. I think if I'm on the bracelet available, so tell us where to find you. Tell us how to follow you on Instagram.
Chris Boudreaux Yep. Vero Watch Company on Instagram and our website, you know, Vero Watch, like if you just Google it, you know, it's vero-watch.com and all the things that, you know, if you get it wrong, it directs you to. You know, that's primarily it. We're in Windup Watch Shop. We're back in there. we, um, you know, we're having some talks with, uh, some outside of the U S retailers, cause we've got a few spots that, that seems to dig us, um, Australia and UK guys are listening. Thank you. You give us a lot of love, but it's hard, you know, it's tough with the customs and stuff. So we're, we're trying to make that a little easier for those, those guys. Um, I mean, there's other places too, but, you know, but from a practical standpoint, you know, um, but yeah, I mean, oh, We we tried to get the price aggressive and we tried to we tried to really make it something You know that people could could do so we we can't have a ton of retail partners. So, you know us and wind up and you know Yeah, we'll see from there.
Andrew So Andrew Other things.
Everett Oh What do you got I had another thing It is a thing that I've had for some time And I've been using it more lately. Oh boy.
Andrew That was when you're going to learn about the flashlight.
Everett Obviously, they make a double XS. They do. So my other thing through a website called for him for him. Yeah, double excess. So it is so In reality.
Chris Boudreaux This podcast is taking a turn.
Everett That's our thing. It always does. So it is actually from a company called Anova. A-N-O-V-A.
Andrew Yeah.
Everett And they make all manner of precision cooking devices. Purveyor is a fine, sous vide does. They have ovens, which are really toaster ovens, and sous-sous-vides. Sous-sous-vides. Sous-sous-vides maybe. Sous-vide. sous-vides, cookers. So the model that I have is actually discontinued, which is not surprising because it's a couple years old and most technology, once it's out of the box, it's obsolete. The current contemporary analog is $200. Here's a couple things that I really like about it. It's Bluetooth enabled. So as long as your cooker is in your home and connected to Wi-Fi, you can action on it from wherever you are.
Andrew So real quick, sous vide for dummy.
Everett Sous vide for dummy. Here it is. You take a pot of water or kettle or a vat and take your pick. People use coolers, they use quarter pans, they use... A container, a vessel. I use a 10-gallon kettle, which when I said that to some friends, they were like, why would you use a barbecue? No, I'm talking like a big-ass soup pot. a 10-gallon soup pot. There is a minimum fill and a maximum fill line on your circulator device. You fill your water, you vac seal your material, put it in the water, and then you set your temperature and you walk away. So it's kind of somewhere between a slow cooker and a slow cooker. But here's the thing. It sets to a temperature and it holds. So what a sous vide is, it's a heating element with a little tiny propeller in the bottom of it. It's a cylindrical device that heats your water with a propeller to circulate your water. You set it to a temperature and then it holds at that temperature. So you could cook your steak theoretically to 145 degrees for 24 hours. I don't know why you would start your steak 24 hours ahead of time, You're gonna have some tendon and some connective tissue breakdown. You're gonna have like a medium rare pot roast, which would be interesting, kind of like hot tartare. But the whole thing, the design of this thing is... It doesn't get hotter than that though, right? Yes, you're never gonna overcook your meat. So I have been undercooking my steaks and pork chops and chicken holding it at that temperature until I'm ready to hit it to a pan. And then I do a decent sear on it. So I cook like 20% as long as you would typically cook it to bring it all the way up to the temperature that I want it at. So I cooked chicken to like 125 degrees the other day and I threw it on the grill to sear it and get some good char marks and some browning. But I didn't want to stand over the grill cause it was fucking 110 degrees outside. Yeah. So it sat on my sous vide, it got to temperature, and then I threw it on the grill, got it to temperature, got all the grill marks without any of the standing over the grill. Now, this is more valuable than for laziness. It does really good asabuco because it's a long cook, but you also don't want to overcook it. It does really good pork chops. You can cook them to rare and then hot serum, get them up to medium because we're not in the 90s anymore. You can eat pork medium. Yes. In fact, you maybe should. Yes. It's way better that way. Yes. So this company called Anova is the brand that I've been using and I really like it because I can throw stuff in a Vaxeel bag in the pot on the counter and then go do stuff for the rest of the day and affect my temperature. It's Bluetooth enabled. It lets you know if you have an issue, if you have temperature changes. It's just, it's really convenient to be able to do that. It also has a huge cookbook. a huge recipe library.
Andrew And they're good recipes too.
Everett They're good recipes. Yeah. If you've got a thing that you want to cook and you want to put it in there and you don't know what to do with it, you just, you type in their database, that item you're cooking, and it comes up with an endless recipes that are kind of Wikipedia based. It's crowdsourced. So it's got like, Hey, I tried it this time. I use this temperature. I tried it this time. I use this temperature. I liked it better. It's a constantly updating,
Andrew Database and this is a classic. This is a classic and maybe one of the best we've talked about on this show a classic buy once cry once Scenario, right? Yeah, it's 200 bucks. You're gonna go to Amazon and you're gonna find sous-vide You're gonna find a lot of them for like 85 90 bucks Get the Anova. Mm-hmm because buy nice not twice. Yep. This one is it's just better. It's just better It's it it's a little a very simple thing. They do a very very simple thing perfectly But this company is super reputable, great service, and the best functionality. In the industry, they've got the best functionality.
Everett Super easy. It's very intuitive. There's tons with like buttons and switches and all kinds of things you have to manipulate. This one has two things you can affect on it. On and temperature.
Andrew And you can do it by Bluetooth. Yes. I've got another thing. Do me. Watch the show. You're buying one? Are you gonna do it right now?
Everett Yeah. Dude, it's the best way to make steaks. It is.
Chris Boudreaux I've got a friend that's in the same boat as you guys. So this is just reinforcing. So it's gotta happen.
Andrew So my wife's out of town as I stated earlier.
Everett So you can watch anything you want.
Andrew I've been watching a lot of TV. I've been watching a lot of TV. Pornhub is just like it's still running at your house. Yeah, Pornhub is on. constantly. I started a show on Netflix and finished a show on Netflix in the last weekend called Sweet Tooth. You've seen the tile. You've seen the tile because it's on the front of your Netflix and they're pushing it hard. They're pimping it.
Everett Yeah, it's top 10 in America today.
Andrew I had a weird, maybe not weird. I had kind of a negative reaction to seeing the tile. I did too. I thought, I don't get this. What is this? And I watched it myself and I don't man. uh, watched it by myself and loved the shit out of it.
Everett You burned it on the weekend. That's awesome.
Andrew Really good story. Really fun. I will say I am going to watch it again with the kids when they get home. So I've got, I've got eight and nine and some of the subject matter is a little intense. It's can be a little scary a few times and there's some mild violence. With that said, I think it's appropriate for kids. Kids of a mature kid, you know, don't watch it with your three-year-old maybe because they'll be bored, but really, really good story. It is a post apocalyptic pandemic story, obviously very timely. Um, you know, and I'm certain a hundred percent certain that that's all on purpose. Uh, with, with that said it's, it's different. It's a totally different thing. Uh, and the outcome. of this pandemic totally different. This is not a show based on reality. It's not political. It's not, um, it's not what you might imagine. It is just a wonderful story. It looks like Z world, but it's not zombies. It's not zombies. It's not at all. It's just a really fun story. Uh, you know, the main actor, sometimes I thought I didn't like him and then he'd bring it back. Uh, really good. He's a, he's a kid. I don't know how old he is. 11 or 12 is my guess. Uh, I just loved it. I just loved it. Chris, you nodded your head. You've seen it.
Chris Boudreaux I did. We watched it. Um, yeah, me, I got two boys, nine and 12. And so me and wife and the boys, yeah, we watched it and loved it. Yeah. It was great. Fantastic.
Andrew Yeah. Chris. Yeah. Other things. What do you got?
Chris Boudreaux Yeah. You gave me like an hour and I still have nothing. No. Um, all right. I'm going to, I'm going to dig into the archives cause it's just the first thing I thought about. Um, You can go probably go on Amazon or go to a bookstore. Um, there's a book, a tennis book, uh, Brad Gilbert. He was, um, I think up to like, you know, number five in the world. Um, he, he got a little more well-known for coaching Andre Agassi and some of the others through, uh, uh, you know, Andre Agassi's comeback and stuff. Um, He, he wrote a book, uh, there, there was the inner game of tennis is a very famous book. It's very famous, like sports psychology book. And he, he wrote like, what would be like a counter to it. Um, which was basically, it was called, uh, winning ugly and winning ugly is an amazing book, even if you never pick up a tennis racket. Um, and I read it when I played tennis as a kid, but I read it, you know, much later. Um, it's, this is going to be a really random comparison, but like, you know, the art of war, right? If you read the art of war, if you try to take what the guy is saying and turn into an analogy for modern day life, it doesn't work. The idea is this is how a guy who lives in war thinks about it. So it's, are you thinking about things relevant anyway? Brad Gilbert wrote about tennis and it's, it's basically, he's got a really funny story where, you know, John McEnroe retired after losing the guys like Brad Gilbert, it's time for me to walk away. And he gained confidence from the fact that people thought he was garbage, that he could, he could win. And he kind of put that to, you know, to how he prepared. It was okay. When do I show up? What do I have with me? What are, what are my opponent's strengths and weaknesses? What are my strengths and weaknesses? You know, and basically really, really being very practical about performance and basically, you know, giving yourself enough credit to do everything you can to be successful, whether or not you're considered the best or not. So in the sense of writing like a non-sports psychology book, I think you wrote probably the best sports psychology book ever written. So anyway, so it's kind of random. It's kind of like off the thing. And if you try to like, if you try to take like, what, you know, a racket bag means for real life, it doesn't mean anything, but the racket bag, right. But it's, to me, it's really cool to see a guy who's thought about his life's work that intently. And kind of like, how you might, you know, apply that to other things you do, like, am I taking what interests me that seriously. And anyway, I just think it's a really cool book. If you're into sports, if you're into tennis, you'll probably really like it. If you're not into tennis, I think it's still a really interesting book and, you know, the stories in there from, you know, playing all the greats. And anyway, that's my recommendation. You can probably pick it up used for a couple bucks on Amazon and it's called Winning Ugly.
Everett I think it's beautiful that you as a watch brand owner in this super saturated, super competitive market, In the world that you've lived in, in the in-home, in-house, local manufacturing, to transitioning away from that to doing what you want to do, unique watches that everyone's familiar with, right? Everything feels familiar, but it's really unique. I just, I think it's beautiful that that is your recommendation.
Andrew Yeah. You know, it's one of my favorite things when folks come on and they recommend a book. You know, I think what we find is, You know, we do other things every week. So it's like before the episode, we're always like scrolling through our, our Amazon, you know, orders lists and our Netflix. Um, but you know, when people come on, they do it once and they always reveal something about themselves, uh, by way of their other thing, you know, it's usually more meaningful. I think our other things are often kind of trivial. Uh, so it's a great pick, you know, I think maybe my, my favorite other thing of all time are one of our writers. Evan, I.Cortman, you know, if you read the website at all, you know, came on with motorcycle maintenance and yeah, or the art of the Zen of Motorcycle Maintenance. And it was like, man, that's awesome. You know, I dig it. It's a book I've heard of. And, you know, so you just these picks like you guys just got to read this. So I love it. Great pick, Andrew. Is there anything else you want to add before we go?
Everett No, I'm out of things, man.
Andrew So you guys, listen, check out, check out Vero, vero-watches.com, Vero Watch Company on Instagram. Chris, thanks so much for joining us.
Chris Boudreaux That was fun, man. I had a good time. I appreciate it.
Andrew And we'll have you on again sometime soon. And hey, thank you at home for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, The Watch Clicker Podcast. If you want, you can check us out on Instagram at 40 and 20. We're at watch clicker. You can also check out the website, watch clicker.com. That's where we post every single episode of this podcast, uh, articles, reviews, et cetera. If you want to support the show, you can do that on patreon.com slash 40 and 20. Listen, that's not just support for the show. It's support for the website too. That's how we pay for all our hosting, uh, all of our equipment, everything that we need to bring the stuff to you guys. And we really appreciate you if you're already there. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.