Episode 139 - What is "Swiss Made"?

Published on Wed, 23 Jun 2021 22:12:28 -0700

Synopsis

The podcast hosts, Andrew and Everett, discuss the meaning and requirements behind the "Swiss Made" label on watches. They delve into the history of Swiss watchmaking, explaining how Geneva became the hub due to the migration of skilled artisans and the Protestant Reformation. They also analyze the current regulations governing the use of the "Swiss Made" label, including the percentage of manufacturing costs and value that must be generated in Switzerland. Throughout the discussion, they express their views on whether the "Swiss Made" designation truly matters to watch enthusiasts and collectors.

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is 40 in 20 of the Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you? Besides sans beverage, should I run downstairs real quick and get you a beverage?
Everett	I'll be okay.
Andrew	I'm uncomfortable with that.
Unknown	I'll just take one of yours. You can have a bush light.
Everett	All right. In fact, I kind of insist.
Unknown	You insist?
Everett	I'm a little uncomfortable with you not having a beverage while we record.
Unknown	Yeah, I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Just, uh, you know, getting ready to talk about my, my favorite thing, watches. And that's always fun. Uh, and working, working and, and living. My family has gone South for, for winter, for the summer. Yes. They haven't gone that far South. Uh, but they have gone south for not quite two weeks, I think. So that's a little, it's always different, right? You come home and it's like, there's fewer dishes to do.
Andrew	There's none dishes to do.
Unknown	But also fewer people that I love to keep me company. So yeah.
Andrew	Yeah. Yeah. How are you? And since you're keto, you also don't get to do the thing that I do. Like when, when my family leaves for a week, I order several pizzas. Oh yeah. And I exist on those.
Unknown	Yeah. Well, that's right. I, you know, I'm a big fast food guy, as you know. And, uh, so I oftentimes when I'm home alone, we'll have fast food, uh, and I'm not going to do that this time around.
Andrew	I will say I gave Calvin my 18 month old, the mashed potatoes from KFC that I procured.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	I've never seen him eat anything so fast. He just like, I mean, the way mashed potatoes should be consumed by the handful to the face. Yeah. He then took the time to lick his hands before he moved on to other fares.
Unknown	You know, I went to, I did, so I did, speaking of fast food, did have fast food tonight because I was kind of running late coming home from work or not running late, but just didn't have a ton of time to stop and get food. And, uh, so I got, you know, some grilled chicken and some coleslaw from KFC, which is not great for keto, but also totally within my macro. And, uh, the lady was like, well, look, I can give you that, but if you, but it's cheaper if I give it to you on a meal and you get a soda. And I was like, okay, this, you know, I'll just do that. And I was like, but don't give me the, the biscuit or the mashed potatoes. And they just included them all anyway. So I did have a bite of mashed potatoes with gravy and mashed potatoes are so good.
Andrew	They're coleslaw is really good. I, I finally, I think honed in the clone. homemade version.
Unknown	It's just like sugar and vinegar, right?
Andrew	Pretty much.
Unknown	Yeah. And mayonnaise.
Andrew	Yeah. Equal parts and a splash of cabbage.
Unknown	Yeah, that's right. Uh, yeah, but they, I like their little, you know, little pieces of cabbage. Yeah, I dig it. I, I'm not, I'm a sucker for fast food, man.
Andrew	I, uh, I started doing my clone, but rather than like food processing the cabbage, I just, I just thin slice it. Yeah. You just chop it, right? Yeah. Yeah. How are you?
Everett	Good.
Andrew	I, uh, I'm on the tail end of my weekend and it's hot here. It's warm.
Unknown	So it's not hot. It's not hot yet.
Everett	No, it's hot.
Unknown	It was, it was 80 ish today.
Andrew	It was north of 90. Not today. Felt north of 90.
Unknown	It was north of 90 two days yesterday and the day before.
Andrew	Yeah. We've had some hot ones, but today, In the throes of our probably two weeks of heat that we get where we live, I said, you know what I'm going to do?
Unknown	Yard work.
Andrew	Dumb. I mowed the lawn. You dumb. And then my neighbor, my back fence neighbor, has bamboo thicket.
Unknown	Have you talked to this person yet? Or are they just a faceless, nameless bamboo farmer?
Andrew	They're just, what's her name? With the good hair. Becky. Becky with the good hair. They're just Becky with the good hair back there, but she got bamboo. Um, no, I haven't talked to him and I'm tempted. I'll probably go over next week.
Unknown	Are you suggesting that Becky's cute? The bamboo farmer is cute.
Andrew	There's a lot of people live there. I'm assuming at least one of them. Oh, is that the farm behind you?
Unknown	Yeah. Oh, they have cows. Do they? Yeah. Yes. Oh, they have cows. I didn't make this connection. I run by, I run by their farm. I chickens and cows.
Andrew	I think regardless one person there must be cute, you know, a lot of averages, uh, but they have bamboo thicket, uh, about as dense as for those of you familiar with the, uh, early two thousands video game Bushido blade. And you know what I'm talking about. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. That's what I got going on on behind the fence line behind me, which means that I have a, manageable, but constant battle against bamboo. So today I really, I upped my game in the battle and I started cutting out roots, which why it's hot.
Unknown	Did you use your Bushido blade?
Andrew	I used a hatchet. Same. And a pickaxe, but I don't, I don't have a katana that I think would be suitable to be slicing into the earth. I have katanas for other purposes, but not for earth slicing. Um, But yeah, so that's what I did today. So I'm a little bit tired. Yeah. A little hot still. I took a cold shower and I turned my hot tub down to like 85. It's too hot to have a hot tub. So I'mma pop in the hot tub at 85 and just leech out some heat from my body today. Good, good, good. It tells me I have to get my filter. It has an alert on my control panel that says change filter.
Unknown	You think it's just time-based? Can you just reset it and get another cycle?
Andrew	You know, I have the owner's manual for my microwave, my stove, my oven, my fridge.
Everett	Not the hot tub.
Unknown	There was like a solid, I don't know, year of my owning a Brita where it would say I need a new filter. And it was one of those smart ones where if you didn't, you couldn't just reset it. You had to pull the thing out. Oh yeah. So I would just open it up, pull the filter out and stick the filter back in.
Andrew	We had a, when we were living in Texas, we had one of those countertop Brita water filters and we were just burning up filters such that we just pulled it out. We just had warm water on the counter for some reason. It's just a decanter. Yeah. It came the same out of the tap and we appreciated it for, there was a, we had some bad storms roll through at the end of one summer and it churned up our reservoir. So everyone's water tasted like algae. Yum. but we had a couple of gallons sitting on the counter that was warm and not algae.
Unknown	That's good.
Andrew	Yeah. That's good.
Unknown	You know, in Oregon we really have pretty good water almost all of the time, but everybody still loves their filters. I mostly just drink out of the tap.
Andrew	I remember being a kid in Portland and like once a year we would transition off of the standard water system onto well water and you could taste it. Yeah.
Unknown	Just immediately. Off of the reservoirs. Yeah. We'd pull it right off the tops of the hills.
Andrew	Yep. And then into the wells and be like blech. Yeah. What is this? And it was better than any water I've ever had anywhere else in the world.
Unknown	You know, the best water I've ever had, besides here, because the water's really good, but the tap water is... Fuji from the bottle. Springfield, Massachusetts. Springfield, Massachusetts, of all places, it's a shithole. I apologize if you're in Springfield, Massachusetts. I liked much of it, but also it was a shithole. But they had fantastic tap water, just for inexplicable reasons. I'm sure they're explicable reasons, Uh, but I don't know the explications.
Andrew	First time I traveled out of the Pacific Northwest was to Las Vegas and it was for a soccer tournament.
Unknown	They do not have good tap water.
Andrew	First time I've been out of the Pacific Northwest, I'm in like the seventh grade and uh, that's sad, but I, yeah, I'm in the seventh grade and uh, I were in our hotel room and I crank up the faucet to pour a glass of water and just as soon as it passed my lips, It went right back into the sink and I was like, what is this?
Unknown	It's a different world.
Andrew	Yeah. It's yucky.
Unknown	That's why people have Brita's.
Andrew	Yeah. I've since been to Las Vegas and have drank water right from the tap, like an animal, but it's just minerals.
Unknown	Yeah. Just minerals.
Andrew	That's my thing though. I just, you know, when you get drunk, you, you need things and you need them. Now there's no, there's no time for a delay.
Unknown	Well, We are, I think, I believe, I suspect, nine minutes, I'm going to talk about watches today.
Everett	Sometime.
Unknown	Are you prepared for this?
Everett	No.
Unknown	No. No. Well, we're going to talk about, we're going to talk about a very specific type of watch today. Yes. And maybe not specific at all, but we're going to talk about Swiss watches. I think an idea. Maybe an idea.
Andrew	We're going big here. We're going big.
Unknown	So, so really scale wise with, without having, without having narrowed down on the topic too much, which we wanted, which we're wanting to do sometimes, right? We just sort of throw out some articles and try to come up with a show based on those articles and, you know, using our knowledge and our ability to Google, uh, come up with, uh, uh, an idea in this case, an idea about an idea. So, so really the question for today is, What makes a watch Swiss made?
Andrew	I was going to say what makes a watch Swiss and it's usually where it gets its passport from. You're welcome guys. So yeah, our thought today is what makes a watch bear the Swiss made stamp at the six o'clock? What does it mean and why does it matter?
Unknown	Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew	That sums it up.
Unknown	And, and the answer is it means nothing and it doesn't. As per usual, by what you like. So, uh, thank you for joining us on this episode of 40 and 20.
Andrew	You know, I, what I've noticed when we, when we tackle these episodes like this, what, what I'm, what I'm realizing and when I, when I'm kind of hoping that you, the listener and you Everett are realizing is that all these things that we build up as the, as the gold standards in watches and in horology and in value proposition in this expensive hobby, really meaningless. They're all marketing schemes. It's like the expiration date on your Tums. They're put there to sell more Tums.
Unknown	I both understand, accept, and... You disagree, and I get why you disagree. I don't disagree. I don't disagree. Hold on. I accept the premise. I hate it, though. And I think if what you're saying is true, we should stop recording this podcast. I think it's fun. Because... We're letting you look behind our kimonos. Because there are people in this industry who become disenfranchised with the idea of watches because of the things that we talk about in the watch world. and it gets sort of annoying. And then you start to learn about things and you realize there's meaninglessness that's pervasive in the questions. And then you say things like, it doesn't fucking matter. Buy what you like. None of it fucking matters. It's all stupid. Eat my dicks. And then... Oh, I'm the first half of that. And then it just sucks, right? And then it just sucks. Like, why are we doing this if it's not interesting? So for me, I reject that. And when I am in that camp, I just stopped doing it because I think it's wonderful. And all of these little things, all of these nuance that I'm going to decompress, Joe, are things that make this wonderful for me.
Andrew	I love it. Okay, I can dig that. And I appreciate that. But when it comes down to it, the nuances are awesome. Because it's fun. It's quirky little things that you know. And as a serial hobbyist and also an actualist, I love knowing those things. Because I can actually the fuck out of people because of the things that I know. And what's more though, is I love knowing these things and being able to recognize that they're not what the world at large makes them out to be. It's liberating to not feel encumbered by Well, it doesn't say Swiss made at the bottom. It's not a chronometer. Oh, I don't, I don't, I mean, I think really my next purchase is going to be a, you know, an, an antiquated metal that is going to just, you know, fall apart while I wear it or there's no neck beardiness to it for me as neck beardy as you and I are. This is all, these are all things that are reinforcing the joy of the hobby for me of like, man, I like this and I like it because of these things. These other things that you tell me why I should like it aren't actually why. They're cool little pieces, but that's not the thing that I like.
Unknown	And also coffee doesn't actually dehydrate you, nor does beer. So fuck off.
Andrew	No, no. It takes seven gallons of beer to make five gallons or seven gallons of water to make five gallons of beer. That makes beer concentrated water.
Unknown	So, so, uh, with that, what is Swiss made mean? Oh, what does it mean? Actually, I'm going to stop you. Do it. Because I have a feeling you're going to talk about boring shit, and I want to talk about things that are not boring first. Is that okay? Yeah. I want to talk about the history of Swiss watchmaking. Why the fuck is Geneva the capital of the watchmaking world? Because they were neutral during World War II. No. Yes. It actually is because they were neutral during the Protestant Wars. And there's... Okay, I accept. Continue. A lot more to that. But Switzerland, famously in the 20th century, neutral, AF. But they did not start there. Switzerland has been neutral for centuries before that. It's kind of their thing. Perhaps a millennia. It is their thing. And it's... I think it's easy to assume that that's a new thing because of world wars, but it's not. It goes back for a very, very long time.
Everett	That's the way you chose to say that?
Unknown	Why not? So first, these two things, there's two things that are happening in the beginning of the 16th century, and they're happening independently of one another, but importantly, happening at the same time. So two things are happening. portable clocks so clock making 13th 14th 15th century is is making you know relatively rapid advancements you know if you consider before the 13th and 14th centuries or you know before the 14th century really we don't have clocks mechanical clocks as we think of them today and and so then these these developments are happening relatively rapid 200 300 years this industry is born, and people are understanding how to make clocks. At the beginning of the 16th century, portable clocks are invented in, and remember this, in Nuremberg, Germany. Yeah, right. Nuremberg, Germany. And that knowledge very quickly spreads to the other sort of international epicenters of clockmaking, which are Blois, Blouin, France, as well as kind of Augsburg, Germany, as well. So you've got Nuremberg, Augsburg, Blouin, France are really the international capitals of clockmaking.
Andrew	Well, it's fascinating with these that you get you get these named individuals who are responsible for proliferating this information. And they're really just the guys who went someplace and shared it someplace that it's stuck. Yeah, there's dozens, hundreds, perhaps, of people who from Nuremberg took this knowledge out. They went in and evangelized this technology and it stuck in just a couple places. And their names will never be written in the pages of history. But these guys who did, I think they're there. They're there. They're immortalized in neurology because their little shop that they started up and joined forces with the right person stuck around.
Unknown	Well, and that's a great term that you use, right? Evangelizing. Because at the same almost the same exact moment. When we talk about history, we're looking at about a 10-year period of time. The portable clock, we're not able to peg it. It's sort of in the 1515 timeframe. But in 1517, there's another really, really historically important thing that happens in Nuremberg. A student, a student by the name of John Calvin, as a homework assignment, excuse me, not John Calvin, Martin Luther, Say, that's not right. As a homework assignment, sort of posts his homework assignment. So, so first look, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a religion nerd. So I think when we think about Martin Luther posting his, uh, his mandate on the doors of the church, it's this really violent revolutionary act. He was doing a fucking homework assignment, uh, literally just a student turning in his homework that he put it in the place where they're turning in their homework. And so people start to read this and he's really sort of trashing the Catholic Church, but not meaningfully, not like he's a Catholic, right? He's doing Catholic things. He's doing a homework assignment about maybe some things that the Catholic Church has that are problematic. So Martin Luther in Nuremberg kicks off the the Protestant Revolution, which because of the people involved, this Nuremberg event spreads to other places like blue off France. So at the time, the group of people in Blois, France, who are making clocks just happened to be sort of culturally connected. And this group of folks will quickly catch on alongside a fellow named John Calvin will quickly catch on to the Protestant revolution and become quote unquote Protestants. And these, these French Huguenots or Huguenots, as we now know them, uh, kind of get a bad rap, right? It's like sort of violent, militant, and that's maybe at times accurate, but as we know, we look at people who protest and in particular who are persecuted negatively, but these folks kind of get driven out of France eventually. And they end up in Geneva, of all places, because John Calvin, my man, is this very, very prominent Protestant later, you know, known for Calvinism, he shows up in Geneva and these Huguenots kind of follow him there. And these guys just pop up in Geneva at this perfect time. So the Protestant Revolution is kicking off. John Calvin shows up in Geneva. He's instantly popular. He's also kind of a revolutionary, sometimes violent, sometimes a little scary, but very popular. And the Swiss government likes him. The Swiss folks eventually come to like him. And he kicks off a series of reforms in the Swiss government, whereby austerity and piety are prized so much that they do these huge reforming cultural, social changes, like something I can't even imagine outlawing jewelry, outlawing gaudy jewelry. So Geneva at the time has come from this long history of, um,
Everett	Artisans.
Unknown	Artisans. Jewelry makers, right? And the Swiss government outlaws jewelry. So now what we have is this giant industry of goldsmiths, enamelists, really talented artisans who have these talents to make jewelry. And we've got all these Huguenot watchmakers who have fled France in the Diaspora ended up in Geneva, and these folks naturally, by way of their persecution, maybe not persecution in the jewelry makers world, but certainly I'm sure it felt like that.
Andrew	By way of their hardship, maybe.
Unknown	By way of their hardship, that's right. So we've got unemployed jewelry makers and immigrant Huguenots, and they just find each other. Because portable clocks, nay watches, are not illegal under the Swiss rule. It's a tool, it's practical. And so in the new Swiss law, watches become the craft du jour, and you've got the most concentrated marriage of talented people literally in the world at the time. And the watch industry, as we know it today, is born. And it'll be two centuries or so before it really gels. But that is short and sweet how Geneva, Switzerland becomes the hub of watchmaking.
Andrew	And remained so because among those changes are also their commitment to neutrality in global conflict.
Unknown	Yeah, that's right.
Andrew	Because that was critical to their rise in the 20th century, not to their rise necessarily, but to their, um,
Unknown	Enduring success, right?
Andrew	Enduring success to maintaining their foothold because you see globally watch industries closing, being reallocated, being appropriated to the war efforts and they remain. And interestingly, and we'll jump forward and I'm sure we're going to go back, in that post-World War II era, you're still seeing the Swiss crank out shit, not good stuff. You're seeing them crank out poor watches. And then they turn, they crank it up. They say, you know what, we're, we're gonna, we're, we're going to take this, this market share that we have and we're going to do it right. And that's where they just, they just took off at a sprint. They had the market share, they had the manufacturing capacity, capabilities, artisanship, and they just, well, so that's really, yeah, I mean, you're right.
Unknown	That is, that is really step three in, you know, in the three step process, which, which puts Switzerland at the forefront, right? So you've got Protestant Revolution, John Calvin, the Huguenots. And then after 17th, 18th century is when watchmaking really becomes a thing internationally. And I think that looking back, you see British watchmakers, you see American watchmakers, you see French watchmakers, you have uh, three real big powers and well-known countries, uh, nations that are making watches, none of which are Switzerland. Switzerland obviously is making watches at the time, but, but they're making a, they're doing something a little bit different. Instead of making Haute Horology, they are the Henry Ford of, of the watch industry. Uh, you know, folks like... They're the, they're the Honda of... of the watch industry. That's right. You know, you've got folks like Perelé Breguet, but really importantly, Daniel Jean Richard is this fellow. And Daniel Jean Richard, amongst others, come up with this idea of Establishage.
Andrew	Oh, that sounded sexy. Say it again, but slower.
Unknown	Establishage.
Andrew	Yep. We're going to pause here for a few minutes.
Unknown	And I do think that's a first word. But but really what it refers to is the decentralization of the watchmaking process. Right. So mass making mass making parts in a decentralized manner, which, as we know. Speeds up production times. Yep. Decreases costs.
Andrew	Yep. Increases quality control.
Unknown	Increases quality control. Absolutely. So where England, you know, great Britain, the United States, France are still very much centralized in-house production organizations. Um, we've got, we've got Switzerland that's making, that's making watches clocks faster, cheaper. and getting them into people's pockets at an increased rate. Quality wasn't always
Andrew	component manufacturing companies bear the name of the like Valley or Fjord kind of, not Ford, they're in Switzerland, but of like the Valley or the, or the kind of mountainous region that they reside in. And, and I have none, no names that are coming to the top of my head, but that's there. That was that what that hood did. they were the hand makers. And then, you know, from the valley over, they were the dial makers and they all coalesced into the assembly plant. And I think that has to do, and I think we'll, we'll, this might be the right time to segue into it. In the seventies, 1971 is a perfect time is when Switzerland codified government code into law. what it means to earn the Swiss made stamp on the dial of a watch. And those things all coalescing down into the single production really lent itself to the codification. So, um, in 1971, I'm gonna keep saying that cause I think that's what it is. 1971, 1971.
Unknown	Uh, the,
Andrew	Swiss government created a list of things that made a watch Swiss. Number one, it had to be a movement from Switzerland.
Unknown	Number two... And that's basically the extent of that rule, right?
Andrew	They don't tell you a whole lot else. The movement of the watch was Swiss. The movement was encased in Switzerland, which creates a loophole for rule number one.
Unknown	If you're listening closely, friends, you will see some opportunities.
Andrew	The final inspection of a watch was conducted by the manufacturer in Switzerland.
Unknown	The manufacturer who is in Switzerland.
Andrew	Yeah. And at least 50% of the value of the watch had to be manufactured in Switzerland. I think currently it's 60% the value of the movement.
Unknown	Yeah. Well, we can talk about that a little bit more, but, uh, because, because there's the quote unquote 60% rule, which sometimes means 60% sometimes means other things.
Andrew	Well, and I think, I think the, the language of it currently is 60% the value of the movement, which is generally the most expensive piece of the watch.
Unknown	Well, so that's not exactly accurate. So I think you nailed it, right? This is the old rule, the traditional rule for Swiss made. And it was problematic in a lot of ways, right? You referred to the movement needs to be a Swiss movement. Well, that could mean anything, right? And they didn't.
Andrew	Swiss guy just cutting it out, yeah.
Unknown	That's right. And they didn't really describe it a lot better than that in the rules, you know, certainly a little bit better than that. What you found was a lot of companies that were just really aggressively cheating.
Andrew	Because of rule number two.
Unknown	Because of rule number two.
Andrew	All you have to do is close that bitch up in Switzerland and it's good.
Unknown	That's right. And so in the early teens, the 20 teens as it were. 2016 is when it was. Earlier than that. So like 2010, 2011, 2012, you get this big international group that's kind of grumpy. there. And this group is surprisingly not necessarily comprised solely of Swiss watchmakers, but rather of just widespread industry folks that are, you know, mad about the privacy within the Swiss industry, frustrated with the lack of transparency, frustrated with quality. And overall, just the unreliability of that phrasing. So this group sort of gets together and in a big concerted effort in 2013, summer of 2013, these guys get together and start hammering out a code for a new rule. And it gets fought on both sides. Folks that say, you know, further codification is just going to complicate things, you know, more rules means more opportunity for loopholes and cheating. It's going to denigrate the overall process, which is actually pretty good. Uh, and then on the other side, you have folks saying, no, even what you guys are pitching isn't strong enough. We need 80%. We need, uh, more even. And so like with all political things, pressure on all sides in June of 2013, they, uh, Switzerland, the government, this group announces the rules. which are to go into place, as you said, January of 2017. So, so much later. Uh, it's about a three and a half year, you know, cause everybody needs an opportunity, right? Catch up, get your shit in order.
Andrew	Sweep some shit under the rug. That's right. Find the loophole and change nothing.
Unknown	And, and change nothing. That's right. Yeah. Figure out how you can keep doing what you're doing and follow the rules.
Andrew	And, and I, even, even under the current parameters, It's the, it's not a hard bar to achieve. For example, the American made standard is 90%. Yeah.
Unknown	All are substantially all right.
Andrew	Yeah. It's not codified at 90%, but it's all or substantially all is kind of accepted at 90%.
Unknown	And our trade commission is pretty aggressive about it. You know, famously Shinola got whacked and, and a few other companies, you know, I think maybe, uh, uh, Cameron Weiss got whacked, you know, folks are getting whacked on by saying made in the United States when in fact not all or substantially all of your shit is US made.
Andrew	And that's, I think the big difference with the, with the 90% is you can't really outsource anything. There's a few things that you must in order to make something affordable, but the, I think the 60% rule leaves a lot of room for outsourcing of manufacturing.
Unknown	Absolutely.
Andrew	Of, of big pieces. Absolutely. Cases can still be made in China.
Unknown	Well, especially because so we're talking now, so, so previously 50% and now 60% we're, we're not talking about weight. We're not talking about the number of parts, the, the, you know, the area that the parts comprise or the volume they encompass. We're just talking about the value. We're just talking about the value. So if you consider making something in Switzerland is five or six times more money than making something in Northern China, perhaps, uh, and maybe more than that. I don't know. I've just made that number up. I don't, I don't know what the multiple is. But if you consider how much more expensive it is to make, you're looking at, you know, maybe actually by quantity, depending on how you measure this, you know, 5 to 10%. Because you can make all the expensive shit in China and then, or, you know, somewhere where you've got much cheaper production costs and make just a few things
Andrew	You know the most expensive things in Switzerland the the handmade movements Can all be made and assembled in Switzerland and even with everything else that goes into that watch Still be sitting in the neighborhood of probably 75% the cost so you make the movement in China No, you make the movement in Switzerland and everything else is That drives your price up.
Unknown	Or even perhaps you make the movement in China in your factory, which is quality controlled and everything. And then you bring it over and you just apply Perlage to the rotor in Switzerland and now you've got the 60% number. Yeah.
Everett	Right.
Unknown	Because that's expensive too. Because that's fucking expensive. And it winds up being 60% of the total cost. Meanwhile, if you were to make the movement here, you know, you might be five or six times that multiple in terms of cost.
Andrew	And then you're not making money.
Unknown	And then you're not making money.
Andrew	Well, you're making money. The markup is insane.
Unknown	Yeah. That's right. Well, so we've got a few specifics about what means makes Swiss made, but I think it's important that we talk about the, the breakdown first. Cause there's, cause there's a few different terms here that are defined in particular three really. So you've got Swiss movement, which you've kind of talked about already, right? So it's assembled and inspected in Switzerland.
Andrew	Which is what Shinola was doing in the United States and it didn't meet muster. That's right.
Unknown	That's right. But 60% of your total manufacturing costs are generated in Switzerland. Swiss quality construction and 50% of the value of the parts and 60% of the manufacturer costs. It's a little weird the way they crunch these numbers around. You can tell that they're writing in opportunities for folks to do specific things and it's not clear to me what.
Andrew	They're building around the, I think, they're building around the fact that manufacturing large parts, cases, bracelets, is prohibitive, cost prohibitive to do in Switzerland. They also don't want big manufacturing plants there. They like that it's outsourced and somewhere else in the world. They wanted to create the opportunity for them to remain elsewhere in the world.
Unknown	I think that's right. And I'd be, you know, it would be wonderful to be a fly on the wall in these negotiations, right? Because when you see like 50%, 60% here, you know, two 60% but they mean different things, but they look the same and you have to sort of, you know, pull out your blacks law dictionary to understand what they mean. Or I guess it wouldn't be blacks, whatever the Swiss version of the blacks is. Blah. You know, you wonder like, okay, someone's trying to achieve a specific goal, but because the industry, the companies are so opaque, I think it would be really tough for guys like us to be able to sort that out.
Andrew	And I wonder what the lobby is, what the Swiss watch company, like a swatch group lobby is. And it's super powerful, right? I mean. Because that's their chief export. I mean, that's it. I mean, it's not it, that their economy is not entirely based on watches, but that's it. I mean, that's the equivalent of the fucking gun lobby.
Unknown	That's right. That's right.
Andrew	They got some ass there.
Unknown	So that's a Swiss movement. Yeah. Swiss parts is essentially the same stuff, but assembled in QC somewhere else.
Andrew	Acceptably. Yeah.
Unknown	And those are your two like subcategories, obviously starting with Swiss parts, then a little bit better is Swiss movement. Yeah. And then you've got Swiss made and this is the granddaddy. Big Papa, as it were, the coveted Swiss-made label. And there's, I think, four or five, depending on how you count on specific points here.
Andrew	I think there's four with one sub-point in one of them. I think part three has a sub-point.
Unknown	So as you said earlier, specifically movement is cased in Switzerland. It's got to have a Swiss movement now that we've defined Swiss movement. So Swiss movement, cased in Switzerland. Swiss quality control. notably a Swiss made low label. So in order to label your watch Swiss made, you've got to have a Swiss made label. Okay. Weird. Uh, production costs based in Switzerland have to be so, so your production costs have to be based in Switzerland. That's a category in and of itself. Plus the 60% requirement for quartz watches. And for mechanicals, we go up to 80%. 80%. Yeah. And theoretically, all your tech development has to be based in Switzerland, whatever that means. Because I don't think it, it seems to me like it would be virtually impossible with Zoom to mandate that.
Andrew	I think it just means that there's, there's headquarters. I mean, you look at somebody like IWC, who's an American dude who went to Switzerland and started a company and is now a Swiss watch brand. Right. I mean, SWC. IWC.
Unknown	Oh, okay. Yeah. And SWC.
Andrew	Also, yeah. Yeah. But what it comes down to is I think that mechanical 80% was a win from the watch lobby to say, please let us manufacture our cases in China.
Unknown	Yeah, yeah. Well, it's interesting you say that because I get the feeling that you've got really pretty seriously different business practices as you move up the chain, right? So I have no doubt that a company like Rolex or Patek, uh, are doing upwards of high nineties, if not a hundred percent of their manufacturer at manufacturer process design, everything.
Andrew	Sourcing of materials. So that's the, that's going to cut into it.
Unknown	Perhaps, yes. Source materials. But there's an exception for unavailable materials. You do not have to factor in unavailable materials.
Andrew	Did you read that in the Blocks Law Dictionary? I did. That's right. Exactly. Blocks. Because one of the things that I was actually, I was curious about when I, when I got into this was, okay, so what makes up that delta that they're willing to cede being manufactured elsewhere? And my first thought was jewel manufacturing. Because that's an industry that is dripping in mystery.
Unknown	Do you know? Do you know where they're manufactured? I don't know.
Andrew	From an extent, I spent most of my time researching this, trying to find companies that manufacture jewel bearings. Now they exist. Rubies. They're out there, right? Rubies, sapphire, you know, take your pick of, I forget the name of it. They all have the same name when they're synthetic. They're just different colors. There's not many that you can find. And there's none of them that have a potent enough web presence to make me think that they have cornered the market in providing jewel bearings to Rolex and IWC and Patek.
Unknown	Turns out it's that guy, that international watch man, NATO strap guy, Ron Sabo.
Andrew	It's him. It's him. He's the guy. He just has he just has a ruby farm in his basement with, you know, other things.
Unknown	And we won't talk about the other things because they're gross.
Andrew	There's just other things in there. It's a basement. Everyone has everyone's basement has other things. It was hard to find. And it makes me think that it's a little sketchy.
Unknown	Shrouded in mystery.
Andrew	Yeah. I could find a handful. One's based in North Dakota. There's a couple that are like subsidiaries of other big companies. It was an, it was a weird Google rabbit hole, um, to find such a, a key component in a, a really valuable industry. You know, if you, if you were to Google, you know, watch case manufacturers, you're going to get inundated. Finding jewels for your movement was a little bit different experience.
Unknown	Yeah. Well, and that's turned out to be one of the problematic things for folks like Nick Weiss or even, uh, RGM or, uh, I can never remember. Is it RMG or RGM? I think. Right. Uh, yeah, I don't know. Now that you've said it, I don't know, but that's been a, that's been, you know, hairsprings, um, You know, some of the more complicated parts have wound up being a difficult thing for these, you know, folks aspiring to make mechanical watches in the United States. Rubies is one of them.
Andrew	And part of that is the expense. You need, number one, the capacity to grow them because they're grown like sapphire. Then you need the capability to, and I say capacity, it's literally space, to be able to cultivate these things. Then you need the capability and technology to ultra high tolerance, laser cut these tiny, tiny components and then find a market for them.
Unknown	Just tinfoil and, and high capacity lights, bro.
Andrew	That's the one, just a lighter and a spoon. You got this. Uh, but the re like what I'm finding, like, It was just an interesting void in the world of urology for me, where there's so many things with appropriate effort, you're going to find it. Yeah. This rabbit hole kind of just ended for me.
Unknown	Fuck you. You don't get to know this information.
Andrew	Yeah. And I'm almost wondering if these movement manufacturers have their own dealers who do it exclusively for them, if they do it in-house. It's still a point of curiosity for me and I'm, like I said, I found a few. One of them, like I said, one of them was in the U.S., but a handful of others were these weird subsidiaries. One of them was from a pharmaceutical company.
Unknown	Yeah, it was odd. Well, one day we'll have to get someone on who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about and they can tell us more about this. So, you know, in terms of In terms of the rules, in terms of the regulation, I think that they're approximately clear as mud, maybe more clear since 2017.
Andrew	A little more rigid since 2017.
Unknown	Than they were before. And maybe less clear or more prone to manipulation. With that said, I think kind of knowing what we know now, I know you've got some opinions. Uh, I maybe have some opinions too, but maybe we talk just a little bit about what does this mean? So we, we, we learn as, as we get involved with the watches, the Swiss Swiss made or Swiss watches is a significant thing. What, what, as we sit here today, can we kind of interpolate or perhaps even extrapolate in places, uh, about this? this thing. How does it affect us as watch collectors? Does it affect us? What are your takes on that?
Andrew	For me, it has an effect in that if you see the Swiss Made stamp on a genuine watch, because I've seen some Frankenstein Rolexes for $3.50 that say Swiss Made. $3.50, not $350.
Unknown	And 350, yeah, but yeah, you can't go much cheaper.
Andrew	Yeah. No, I've, I've seen, I've seen Quartz Daytonas. Uh, those, those are the best. Real cheap. You can get them, I can get you a good deal on them. Uh, I found them at the, uh, at the Best Buy Connex in, uh, I don't know what the nearest city is, but it was at, uh, Fab Airborne. Uh, there's Best Buy Connex there. They sold Rolexes.
Unknown	Um, For the same price as the hoagie, the ham and cheese hoagie on the cooler.
Andrew	It is more expensive. Ham's cheap there. The hoagie, the hoagie was more expensive? No, the Rolex. Ham's cheap. It's trash. So to me, Swiss made is a stamp very much like chronometer, very much like water resistant, very much like any of the other stamps that have been codified and controlled. You mean it's jargon? It's jargon, right? It's a stamp of quality, not necessarily a stamp of value. And I think there's an important difference there.
Unknown	And when you say value, you don't just mean monetary value.
Andrew	Yeah. And I mean specifically not monetary value. The Swiss made stamp at the six o'clock of your dial means something, right? It makes it inherently more valuable because it had to be earned. Steps had to be taken. Steps were taken. Right? Very specific controls had to be met in order to get there. Very similar to a chronometer. Does a chronometer really mean anything No, it just means that it's more precise. It's been measured to be more precise. Yes, it's more valuable in that it's a, it's a more precise instrument. Does it mean anything? Does it make a watch cooler? Yes. Does it make a watch cooler to you? Who knows? Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. It's, but it's very much, it's, it's, it's a difference between a hundred meters of water resistance and 600 meters of water resistance. Is the Delta worth it? For me, sometimes it is.
Unknown	Well, and oftentimes there's not even a Delta, right? We talked about, you know, ISO certification many, many, many episodes ago. And, and the, the, at the end of the day, many, many, many watches that are not ISO dive watch certified could be, we suspect. Maybe should be. And maybe, yeah, and maybe should be, but they're not because you've got to go through these things. You know, famously Jason Lim from Hallios. Yeah. I don't know that he's said this, but other people have suggested that he told them that his latest set of watches, the universe and the fair wind could qualify for Swiss made status. Uh, and I don't know if that's true or not expensive to get there. I'm not sure. I don't know, but the idea being it's, it's just a word. It's just a set of words that you put on the watch because you've done certain things that you're not under no obligation. Like we said, in order to be quote-unquote Swiss made, you've got to put Swiss made on the dial. So that's the deal, right? It's a self-licking ice cream cone.
Andrew	That's right. I mean, yeah, Rolex could stop doing it. Manta could stop doing it. Christopher Ward could stop doing it. But they continue to do it because there's something there. There's meaning there. That's not where I draw meaning from. It's a cool, feature. It's a cool touch. It's a, it's an amenity that doesn't really drive my desire. But I think, you know, I was going to talk about those, those watches that could qualify. I mean, and I don't know, you know, but also any of his watches could also qualify for diver, but he hasn't, he's not going to pay the money for an ISO certification because it's, it's bordering on cost prohibitive for smaller companies to do it.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	So, big companies with a lot of cash, with a lot of liquid capital, control the market on these certifications that you, you effectively buy and do what you've been doing anyway, do kind of the market standard for production, the industry standard for production, but you get a little, you get a cool stamp or badge or, you know, take your pick on things. And, and for me, it's, It's cool to have. When I look at any of my, any of my watches and I pulled out a handful of watches cause I wasn't sure if we were going to, you know, do any side by side and compare what, what we're going to do. But I've got some watches to say Swiss made on them and I've got a Bach talk on the table and I've got a, an EMG on the table and all of these watches are a varying quality. but none of them for me, the, the Swiss made isn't a, isn't a game changer for me. Isn't, isn't even a conversation point in comparison for any of these watches.
Unknown	Yeah. You know, I think it's, I think it's interesting. I think we came in, I think we came into watches, you know, both of us sort of really started cutting our, watch collector teeth in about 2015. Um, you know, prior to that, you know, we're seeing this surge of watchmaking in the microbrand scene, the small company, the democratization as, as we, we referred to a couple of weeks ago of, of the industry.
Unknown	And so there was just a lot of stuff that was happening kind of at or immediately before when we, we come into our own in terms of understanding the industry. So I think it's easy for guys like you and me who sort of, you know, got, you know, into the rabbit hole, you know, heads up your ass at this time when there was so much happening to say, well, Swiss made actually doesn't mean anything to me with that said for, you know, 50, 70, 80 years before that, it was a really powerful statement.
Andrew	And I think that- With some breaks. There's some important breaks in that continuity.
Unknown	Well, obviously you've got the quartz crisis.
Andrew	You've got the quartz crisis and you've got, prior to that, when they were producing garbage watches and the American watch industry was kicking the shit out of the Swiss because they were making these railroad accuracy watches that were just hits. They were on fucking points. And Switzerland was shipping over these watches that were just trash. And then you see a transition.
Unknown	And apples to apples, I think it's unfair to the Swiss industry to say they were producing trash, right? You still got, you know, some of the best craftsmanship in the game, but a different focus, right?
Andrew	Their mechanical focus was less so.
Unknown	And so with that said, whether or not we feel the strength of that is maybe irrelevant to the fact that, which is like you said, right? It does mean something. Uh, and it means more. I think the more you get into the watch game, the less it means, you know, we, we come in and we start collecting and talking about watches privately in 2015 and then later start podcasting about watches. And then a short time later, uh, for instance, just for instance, uh, Grand Seiko, SAI breaks off Grand Seiko from Seiko, right? And, you know, in many ways, I think we'll look back and see that as a really important moment. Now we have this company that sells five to 10 to even more thousand dollar watches that are in every sense of the word, luxury time pieces. And they're coming out of Japan with, you know, movements that compete in every step of the way, uh, or every step of the, uh, process to Swiss watches finishing, you know, as good, if not better than the best Swiss watches in the world. So we've our, our POV is one of this expanding world.
Andrew	Oh, we're in the golden age. We're living it right now.
Unknown	With that said, if you're just a dude on the street who has, you know, one time flipped through an article of, you know, some watch magazine at your dentist's office, you probably hold a not unreasonable expectation that Swiss watches are the best watches. And, and so, you know, there's a difference between folks like us and folks like you. As the general, in terms of your understanding, then there would be from a general public person, I guess is my point.
Andrew	I don't know. And I think you're right. I would think that the general public in mass is unaware that luxury brands like Tudor, Rolex, Patek are Swiss brands.
Unknown	Have you, have you gained the feeling that we didn't give ourselves enough time to talk about this episode?
Andrew	A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I would, I would argue though, they're not aware that they're Swiss. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't, I don't know where they would think they're from, but my guess is that they wouldn't think they're Swiss. I also wouldn't guess that they would think citizen. And I think most people in mind, the general consumer market citizens, uh, you know, a mid range watch.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	and probably the only obtanium for the general public, I wouldn't guess that they think of it as a Japanese brand.
Unknown	Perhaps, yeah, that could be right. I mean, Citizen, more so than Seiko, is very... I shouldn't say very, but it's oftentimes in their design language, I would argue, European.
Andrew	Yeah, I think they've taken a lot of the traditional American designs and
Unknown	Andrew, I think... We're out of time, aren't we? I think very sadly, we probably need to wrap up for the week. Probably not sadly for those of you listening. I'm sorry you had to listen to us. That's right. The six of you... Wax poetically. The six of you that are left, we do appreciate you being here. And I expect six DMs in the morning telling us, what about this topic did we miss on? Are there any interesting ideas? Things that we got wrong, certainly, if you Correct me on my pronunciation of the Huguenots and or the Huguenots either way. If you correct me, I'm going to tell you to fuck off. But other than that... But feel free to correct him. Other than that, you know, what did we miss? What big things? What big things did we miss? Or what did we get wrong? Because we undoubtedly got some stuff wrong today. Probably not. Well, let us know, because as we sit here today, we've got about 10 marked topics. that we didn't get to. We've got a ton of brands that we didn't talk about, and we could have talked about a bunch of brands kind of in detail about how they fit into the system. So what more on this topic, if anything, do you want to hear? Andrew? Other things? What do you got?
Andrew	I got something good. And it's only good for those of you mostly in California. It's a beer. For Father's Day, my wife got me a really great gift. She scoured the bottle shops of Portland for Russian River Brewing Company beers, specifically Pliny the Elder. And she got a lot of bottles. I maybe shouldn't even say on air how many bottles she got because she will get blacklisted from those bottle shops for purchasing so many. But in addition to getting some Pliny, several Pliny the Elders, which I drank and so enjoyed. For those of you unfamiliar with Pliny the Elder, look it up. That's not my other thing this week, but look up the beer should you ever get an opportunity to enjoy it.
Unknown	Easily another thing any other week in its own right, and perhaps has been.
Andrew	Perhaps. This week, my beer of choice was, is Blind pig. It was. So it's a beer. I'll just read the label. Uh, it's a prohibition era. Oh, turn sideways. Uh, prohibition era term for a speakeasy. The very first brewery for Russian river was named blind pig. Uh, and it was located in Temecula. They fell in love with IPAs and hops there because that was really what was available. Uh, the blind pig IPAs generously hopped with hints of citrus woody notes and a lingering bitterness. Just keep refrigerated and consume fresh to best enjoy this beer's intense hop character. As with all hopped beers. Yeah. And all Russian River. And Russian River does a lot of dry hop. So if you age it more than about 30 days, just pour it out.
Unknown	If you leave it in the sun for more than about two hours.
Andrew	Yeah. Yeah. So Blind Pig was similar to Pliny the Elder, which makes sense because Pliny the Elder is a really simple, simple, uh, malt bill, really simple hop bill, very simple, but in its simplicity, complex beer. Really great hop layering. Blind Pig was similar, but just a touch darker. A little bit darker grain bill. Toasty. A little bit toasty, a little bit hoppier, a little bit more bitter finish than citrus, because Pliny finish is really bright and citrusy. Blind Pig finished a little bit heavier, like a little bit, some darker hop flavor, more of those like really dank hop flavors that you get.
Unknown	And it was delightful. I knew that's exactly the word, even before you made the D sound with your mouth.
Andrew	What else could you call it? It was just such a refreshing, great summer beer. It's only six and a half APV. They come in pint and a half or pint and a quarter bottles. I mean, for an IPA, that's conservative. Yeah, that's conservative. I mean, you ring in for IPAs between like six and eight. So regardless, it was bright, it was citrusy, it was refreshing, but it had just some of those dark, resin-y hop flavors that were just so good. So for those of you who do come across Western River and you're looking for Pliny, Grab the blind pig if that's what you can find. Should you come across any Russian River beer, buy it. Also ask. A lot of places don't put it out because they don't want to sell it to people who don't know what they're buying because their infrastructure to distribute is really minimal. So when they get a case or a half case or a bottle in, they don't want just some asshole to come in and be like, oh, it's okay. It's like going to an AD, okay? You don't even have to get some credit there. You just have to ask. Knowing to ask is the credit that they, you know what, you've earned it.
Unknown	That's right, that's right. Having the question will in and of itself give you the credibility.
Andrew	So when you go to the New York's Bottle Shop, just check in with them, see if they have any Russian River. If they have Pliny, obviously get it. Blind Pig, go for it. Pliny the Younger is also very good. Another beer worth another thing week. But maybe my other thing this week is just Russian River. If you find it, buy it, drink it, you'll love it. Don't age it. When I was selling beer, I found a Pliny the Elder in the back of a cooler of this rural convenience store that fancied themselves a bottle shop. And it... I was so mad. I've heard this story. I was so mad. And this is probably like 2016. And I find it and I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to buy this beer. I don't care. They're going to sell it to me or I'm going to leave with it. Um, cause you just can't find, find it up here. Russian river doesn't distribute this way for the most part. And I looked at the date on the bottle and it was five years old and I asked them about it and they're like, Oh yeah, we're saving it for a special customer. And I said, just pour it out. There's, there's no, you are now just refrigerating trash. That's what you're doing right now. You ruin everything.
Unknown	You ruin everything. Oh yeah.
Andrew	I was looking, when I found that beer, I was actually looking for a bottle that I had sold them the previous year. So it must have been 2017. I was looking for a bottle that I had sold them the previous year that was also similar. It's not a beer that you age. I was looking for it to tell them, look, I'm not going to sell you anymore because you still haven't sold this one that I sold you. It's pretty special and you ruined it by aging it in your cooler for no reason. I did find that bottle, but I also found a five-year-old bottle of Pliny. It's aged. It's not. It's ruined. Aged to perfection. Don't age dry hopped beer. You just don't. The acids mellow out and they melt and then it turns to trash.
Unknown	I've got another thing. Do me. So my other thing is a TV show, unsurprisingly, because I love talking about TV shows.
Andrew	And your family's gone.
Unknown	And my family's gone. This is a television show that is its second season has just come out. It is set in the Z Nation universe. And if you don't know what Z Nation is, Z Nation is a mediocre, at best, sci-fi, S-Y-F-Y channel zombie show. It's not great. Nor is it terrible. And it's not my other thing. My other thing this week is the Netflix original. I think it's Netflix original, whatever that means. That's like Swiss. That means they bought the first season and produced the second. That's like Swiss made. Yeah. It's a Netflix original and it's called Black Summer. Uh, the first season of Black Summer came out one and a half, two years ago, something like that.
Andrew	Long enough ago that I forgot that I'd watched it.
Unknown	Uh, and it is in my mind good to excellent. Yeah. It's good to excellent. Uh, I was trying to describe it to someone recently and I said, it's like a Cormac McCarthy book in that it is all sort of emotion, facial expression, very, very stoic characters, or sometimes ridiculous, over-the-top characters, without a lot of explicit plot development. Yeah. You get these sensations more often than you get any explanation about what the sensations are. So the dialogue is oftentimes... Poorly written. I wouldn't call it poorly written. I think it's wonderfully written, but it's sometimes not as directly related to the things that are happening as you might expect in modern filmmaking. Anyway, second season just come out. It's set in the winter versus the first season, which is set in the not winter. This summer? Perhaps.
Andrew	I hesitate to say summer because in any event, not winter.
Unknown	Uh, this season's set in the winter. Uh, I've just finished it.
Everett	Wow.
Unknown	I've just finished it. Uh, and it was incredible. Now look, full disclosure, full fair warning, I should say. Do not watch this with your kids if they're under the age of about 30. 30. Yeah. Cause it is extremely graphic at times. It is often very scary. Like, and scary enough to make me a grown ass man uh feel uncomfortable makes my palms sweaty makes my palms sweaty that's a an accurate description uh bear in mind what i do for money it can be intense it's not so much jump scares uh occasionally you get a little bit of a jump scare it's more just tense and there's sometimes these prolonged like hallway scene you know if you know what i mean by the hallway scene where uh it's like Oh my gosh, really close. Anyway, I love it. I think it's, I think it's really well done and totally different than any other zombie flick I've ever seen. It's, it's a series, it's not a flick, but.
Andrew	Well, it's even different than The Walking Dead. And I, and I think, you know, any of these zombie TV shows, I think what Black Summer did really uniquely and I, and you talked to it, um, the, the plot progresses without you realizing that the plot progresses. Yep. Almost like you're living it. The dialogue occurs, it's poorly written in that it's not quick, it doesn't progress the plot. It's exactly what you'd expect that asshole to say in the midst of a zombie catastrophe. It pulls you in in a really unique way that other zombie TV shows, for me, have not done.
Unknown	Yeah, so when I hear you say poorly written, I take that as a value judgment. I don't think it's poorly written, I think it's brilliantly written.
Andrew	Yes. Poorly is not the right word. Poorly written in that if what we were doing was scripted, it would not be great. Right.
Unknown	That's right. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's really a reality sort of, it's, it's hearkening after reality as opposed to the magic of screenwriting.
Andrew	Yeah. It pulls you into it. You're not, you're not hearing Coral all the time. You're, you're living the zombie apocalypse with them.
Unknown	Well, that's all I got, Andrew. That's all I got. I got zombies. I got Swiss made. Swiss made zombies. In fact, I heard actually the zombies from that movie. Do they ski? I think they do. And I heard that they qualified for Swiss made labeling.
Andrew	Wow. Look at them go. What else do you got? That's it for me. I'm out of things, man.
Unknown	Hey, thank you guys for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the WatchClicker podcast. Why don't you check us out on Instagram at 40 in 20 at WatchClicker. That's where we post all of our pictures. Check us on our website. So watchclicker.com every single episode of the podcast, but also weekly multiple times per week, new reviews, uh, things that you might like to read, uh, and, and look at.
Andrew	Always new reviews coming in hot too.
Unknown	And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye-bye.
Unknown	Hello.