Episode 136 - The Objectively Best Dress-Sport Watch Under $1,000

Published on Wed, 02 Jun 2021 23:07:58 -0700

Synopsis

This podcast episode covers a discussion on the objectively best dress sport watches under $1,000 based on the hosts' scoring rubric. They go through an extensive list of potential watches, providing honorable mentions and their top 5 picks. The Seiko Alpinist comes out as the number one choice, followed by the Astron Banks Fortitude, Christopher Ward C63, Orion Hellcat, and Traska Summiteer. The hosts explain their rationale behind the scoring and highlight the key factors that make these watches stand out in the dress sport category, such as water resistance, size, movement, bracelet, aesthetic, durability, lume, and x-factor.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Everett	Decent. Very, very, very decent. I've actually, uh, got trial in the morning. Ooh. So I should not.
Andrew	Always plead not guilty. That's what I've learned from court shows.
Everett	I should not be here. Yeah, it's not criminal. So there's no guilty or not guilty. Oh, uh, but here I am.
Andrew	Um, more objections is more better is also something I've learned from court docudramas.
Everett	More objections is, is not better. Yeah. But, uh, it's more better. Sometimes they're necessary. Um, yeah, so, so good. I'm a little stressed. I'm just kind of busy. And, uh, you know, I think I created created I produced about a thousand pages of paper today. Was there writing on them? Yeah, there's something on all of them.
Andrew	Not know this page intentionally left blank pages?
Everett	No, no. Well, no, none of that. You know, but just between exhibits and motions, you've got to prepare Jury instructions. Jury instructions are like seven pages.
Andrew	I would imagine, yeah, even for the most simple of cases.
Everett	Yeah, actually, our jury instructions are longer than that. You've got to prepare. I mean, there's just a lot of stuff you have to prepare. And so there's just a lot going on, right? But yeah, I'm good. With that in mind, I'm actually pretty good.
Andrew	Nice. My experience with trial is always just sitting in a hallway.
Everett	Yeah. Excluded.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	Because you're going to testify.
Andrew	Yeah. Just sitting there waiting like, Hey, come back tomorrow. Sweet. Yeah. Not working tonight.
Everett	Yeah. Uh, that is, that is an experience that's in some ways worse and otherwise better.
Andrew	It's typically better.
Everett	All, all of the things, you know, uh, a trial, I think in people's mind, a trial is a lot of Kabuki and there is an, element of trial, you know, there are parts of trial that are, um, but really there are just a lot of moving pieces. Um, people don't always think about trial in the way lawyers have to, you know, if you're presenting a case. And so, you know, I think a lot of people think, oh, well you're just asking stupid questions or, you know, what's the point of this? And then, you know, the judge may even say, you know, where are you going with this? And I've got to say, oh, well, I've got this element of one of my claims. Yeah, you have a question tree to get you there. And I don't get there if I don't get here. Okay, I understand. And you've got to do it by way of code because the witness is sitting right there and, you know, the judge will know what you're going for, but the witness, you've got to say it in a way that doesn't like... Anyway, there's just a lot. So that's where my brain is.
Andrew	My brain is... So you definitely should be here. Drinking hard seltzer. Yeah. And bullshitting with me. You need a break. Yeah. You deserve it.
Everett	You've earned it. I mean, I've earned it in terms of money.
Andrew	Yeah. That's what matters.
Everett	Fortunately, my client is a corporate client and so we submit the bills on the 5th and we get the money on the 10th no matter how much it is. Man. Yeah. It's fantastic.
Andrew	Are you billing these hours right now?
Everett	No, I'm not doing these hours, but I did bill, you know, you know, in the course of two days, I've billed, uh, 19 hours on this case.
Andrew	Yeah. I haven't seen your car at the house at all.
Everett	And then I will bill at least another 20 hours over the course of the next two days. Jackpot.
Unknown	Yeah. Yeah.
Everett	What are you getting? Uh, I might pay off some student loans, you know,
Andrew	And we have the sad trombone noise, you don't have to make it. Oh yeah, yeah, sorry. So I apologize for my voice again. I swear to you all, yesterday my voice was fully normal. Today it's not so. I was really starting to think that the COVID kid was no longer going to be the COVID kid. Now I'm still the COVID kid.
Everett	One of our listeners, I'm not going to reveal who it is because it feels a little too personal, but one of our listeners is a speech pathologist.
Andrew	No, I'm aware.
Everett	And oh, okay. You can share it, but they said they were worried about your voice, Andrew. Yeah, no, I'm aware that there's maybe some long-term impacts here.
Andrew	Everyone at work calls me the COVID kid. I'm not the only person I work with who has got the Rona. Uh, I am the only person within the little population of people that I work with that has been so affected by it. Yeah. With long-term long-term side effects. Like one of my coworkers, he's a little bit younger than me. Uh, he was out for about two months, like out, Uh, but he's, he, I've been talking to him cause he's, you know, three months ahead of me in recovery. And he's like, yeah, I came back, like my brain fog was gone, still kind of got shorter breath, but that's cause I'm fat. I'm like, well, you're not exactly fat, but I'm objectively in just better physical shape than he is. Um, so I'm like, oh, cool. So the COVID kid rides.
Everett	So, well, uh, I'm, I'm really sad for you that you're having to go through this. I do hope for,
Andrew	Hopefully, hopefully if, if this, if this does anything, this is just an encouragement to not get COVID for, for the, the seven people that listen to us, just don't get COVID.
Everett	Yeah. Yeah. Don't do it.
Andrew	Get vaccinated if you can, or, you know, stay isolated, take your pick, but because you it's two months now, right? Yeah. April 13th, I got diagnosed. So we're in April, May. So almost two months. Yeah. Yeah. All of April. All of May, we're into June.
Everett	And you're physically able to do everything now besides talk, right?
Andrew	Yeah. I mean, I still get a little bit short of breath and brain fog's mostly gone, but yeah, just talking, which for most people, they appreciate that I can't talk. Right.
Everett	No, definitely. I do. I assume the folks at home do too. My wife loves it. I bet they wish I could get some sort of can't talk side effect and then they wouldn't have to hear us.
Andrew	We could mouth kiss more and see if maybe laryngitis can pass. You know, direct contact. Pass. Okay. Your choice.
Everett	But other than that, you're doing well. You're finishing up your weekend now. Wrong. Oh boy.
Andrew	I'm on a week of vacation. Oh, why? I'm going to Anderson Island for a long weekend. Oh, that's right. You've got boys weekend. We have buddy games coming up. So we're going to go do buddy games on Anderson Island.
Everett	Boys night.
Andrew	Several of them consecutively. So I'm off work all week and I bring my work phone home on long weekends so I can check my email for subpoenas and shit. I got subpoenaed for two cases at the end of this month for which I have no independent recollection of. I don't remember, like when it has a date on, you know, when the case occurred, the name of the accused.
Everett	And I was like, I have no memory of that. You know, that's actually, that's not that bad, right? You encounter so many people. Um, I would say three or four times a week, Taylor, my assistant will come into my office and say, Joe Schmoe was on the phone, uh, wants to know a status update. And I go, do you know what case Joe Schmoe is? Because I just, you know, if I don't have the file open, if I'm not working on it, I just don't. So I'll know the name.
Andrew	They're all so similar. They kind of blend together and that's right. Unless it's a significant event. Like I think I only remember five or so people that I've had like court appearances with before, like going back and reviewing and like, Oh yeah, that makes sense. There's all, I mean, I know a lot of people that people interact with all the time, but yeah. So I remember, I, Remember to do that. Got a bunch of subpoenas, which is money, money, money. It's all over time. Jackpot.
Everett	You know, I work with a lot of adjusters. Adjusters will oftentimes have, you know, hundreds and hundreds of files. And so, you know, I always, I always, every time I email, I have a little blurb that I put at the top of the email to the adjuster that says, This is the case number. This is your claim number. This is your insurance policy number. This is our court case number. And here's the gist. And I just copy and paste that into every email that's at the top because I know those adjusters get the email. And if I'm like, Hey, it's Everett. Don't call it about the Smith matter.
Andrew	Uh, they're like, dude, I attached the mugshot of people when I interact with POs. Yeah.
Everett	Well, we are, we are talking about watches today and perhaps, perhaps we should talk about watches. Yeah, we've got a long episode. Yeah. Yeah. So I've got a new watch alert.
Unknown	Ooh.
Everett	I'm not wearing it, but we have posted on the Instagram. I got my Electra.
Andrew	Oh, you did?
Everett	Or the, the Electra 55 Russian digital watch.
Andrew	You know, I messaged about that and they were like, Oh, huh? Yeah. Message this guy. And I haven't messaged him yet.
Everett	And they haven't.
Andrew	No, I haven't. I mean, I haven't messaged him yet. So it's a little bit on me that I haven't paid for my watch yet. Evidently.
Everett	Yeah. I, it's interesting that you didn't get a message because the electronica, the electric, I'm sorry, the, the electronica 55. So this is very reminiscent of an a one 58. W Casio. It's a Russian digital watch. It's got 80s, 90s vibes. Cyrillic. They've made these in Russia for, you know, the better part of 40 years. It's got Cyrillic all over it. It is just, it's just a Russian Casio clone, is basically what it is. These things are typically brass, you know, nickel plated brass, or maybe chrome plated brass. I don't know what the difference is.
Andrew	Chrome-plated garbage, you know, take your pick.
Everett	So they're extremely cheap watches, but they're neat, right? And so the Russian forum, the Russian watch forum on watchuseek, gosh, what, a year and a half ago?
Andrew	Longer than that, in 2009, like September of 2018, I think was my first interaction with them.
Everett	They announced that they're going to have Electronica manufacture a steel case, a steel case for their most popular movement, the 55, um, movement caliber. And they're going to house them in a custom case specifically for watches. It's a forum project watch. And so, you know, we've gotten updates over the years about this thing. And finally I received mine in the, in the mail this week.
Andrew	And I got all pissed off cause I vividly remember paying for mine. I got created a PayPal, but evidently I didn't pay for it. Yeah. So I have to pay for my watch now, but it's ordered. It's ready to go. It's mine. I just have to pay for it and then they'll send it to me.
Everett	Nice. So you're going to get one. Well, so, uh, just if I pay for it, just, just, just like the basics, I really enjoyed it. It's very small. It's, it's tiny. I would say, um, they offered these on a number of, it's F91 sized. Yeah, I think a little smaller than an F91 maybe, or yeah, maybe F91 size. They offered these things on a number of different straps, all of which looked really great on the internet. And I got a sort of bar link bracelet, which aesthetically matches it really well. It's one of those things where I got it and I was like, this bracelet just doesn't work. The bracelet is too nice for the watch. It's a little too sturdy. It doesn't have any articulation. And so I had to take it off the bracelet, um, because it just wasn't, it just wasn't working for me. It's just too much bracelet for the watch. I put this thing on the, the rubber strap that I had taken off my F 84, which is the JDM F 91 that I have. I stuck this F 84 strap on that. Um, it's, it's, Perfect. It's perfect. It's got flared ends. It's got an 18mm lug width, flared ends. It is perfect. It's perfect. So I've been wearing it on that. Really pretty neat. I'm pretty into it. So you can see the picture on our Instagram or you can just Google Watches Seek Electronica 55 Project. Yeah, I'm pretty happy. It's fun. I think I paid $70 with the bracelet that is stupidly overbuilt. Pretty neat. 70 bucks. I think it was 70 bucks with the bracelet, with shipping and everything from Russia. That tracks. Yeah.
Andrew	So I think the watch head, I think it was like $55, like all said and done. I think then I think it's 20 bucks shipping.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. I think the watch head was 40. Yeah. Or 42 or something like that. It's all cheap. It's all in rubles. Yeah. Which so, you know, it's not money.
Unknown	Right.
Everett	But yeah. Um, you for once, don't have a new watch alert, I don't believe.
Andrew	No, no. For this week, I don't. We'll see about next week. I have a couple purchases coming in. Not really. And everyone's making fun of me. I got three watches in six months.
Everett	No, no. That's right. It's not that much clay. I think we just don't buy many watches. I think relative to other people in the hobby and certainly relative to even our, even our co, even our team, we don't buy many watches. Yeah, that's right. So I think when we, you know, you went out on a mini tear and it was like, Whoa, something's happening.
Andrew	I went on a tear with some expensive watches.
Everett	Yeah. And there were big purchases. That's right. Yeah. That's right.
Andrew	Um, speaking of which, all of which have a place in this conversation sort of tonight, today, as you listen, We are going to address the objectively best dress sport watches under $1,000. That's a high price point. This is the highest we've ever gone for a single watch purchase in the way of best ever poor man's. And there's a reason for that. Yes. Number one reason being what we wanted to illustrate was how close the objective scientifically proven rubric scores watches that range from, I think my least expensive watch was, I have to look, $254.
Everett	Duras KX?
Andrew	Yep. Most expensive being $815. in the way of the C63.
Everett	Now we should say we've talked at some point about implementing a price.
Andrew	We have.
Everett	Or a value factor in the rubric. Ultimately we decided against it. We felt like that that would sway answers. We couldn't come up with a way to implement a number that we felt like was fair. And so we decided against it. So I think that this conversation is best had in terms of price segments. I think under a thousand is a pretty big price segment. With that said, with that said, I think that it's a reasonable place for us to set it for this conversation because I think for many people, a dress sport is an only watch.
Andrew	Yeah, you should get that and a DW 5600 if you can only have two.
Everett	And I think to the extent that it's not an only watch, it can, and perhaps should be, could be, and perhaps should be a centerpiece of a collection. I think, I think you and I sort of, um, feel the same in that regard. And, and to demonstrate that feeling we have, I think what we both realized pretty quick in this process is that the, without having tried to do this, because I don't think we did this deliberately, we both realized the rubric is built for the dress sport category.
Andrew	It is. It is the rubric for the dress sport. And we're not going to amend it for dive watches, dress watches, pilots. We're not going to do it because this is the watch that we like. This is the watch that's go anywhere, do anything. This style of watch is the affordable man's watch or affordable woman's watch. This is, this is it. The pinnacle of watch design.
Everett	That's right. And as Mike was, Mike was as one, as we were, excuse me, as we were preparing for this episode, Mike asked a question, it's a good question. And I think we can just deal with it at the front end here. Um, he said, is a, is a dress sport watch a God or go anywhere, do anything watch or vice versa? Are they the same? Is there a distinction? Um, I came to an answer and Andrew, you can give your thoughts on the answer. I think, a go anywhere do anything category is slightly wider.
Andrew	It's wider. It's much bigger. It includes dive watches. It includes a lot of chronographs.
Everett	Theoretically, that's right. So this watch is specific to a dressy sport watch. And I think without really talking about it, we both decided and agreed that any sort of external rotating bezel is out. Um, probably multiple crowns are out. Although as you will see, we make exceptions all the time and we don't feel compelled to justify them.
Andrew	Um, extra complications need a reason.
Everett	Yeah. Really? This has got to be a watch. That's sporty and dressy.
Andrew	It's a watch. You can put on a manky and swing a hammer and put on leather and wear under a suit.
Everett	Yeah. Or a bracelet under a suit because I wear bracelet watches with suits regularly. I almost certainly will wear a bracelet watch tomorrow.
Andrew	But you take my point. You're so contrarian. Always disagreeing with me.
Unknown	So yeah.
Andrew	So that's it. Our rubric, our parameters were unspoken but also pretty narrow. Because for me, a dress sport has no external rotating bezel, comes on a bracelet, looks good off a bracelet, good water resistance, can have a dome, maybe shouldn't, but can. It's got refined elements in its design. It also has good loom. We're not talking dress watch here with no loom. It doesn't have a bunch of sub dials and additional complications. It's a simple watch that is surprisingly hard, but as you're going to hear in our scoring, very often well executed.
Everett	Yeah. I mean, as we go through this list, I had, we'll just go through some of the numbers. Um, all, Every single one of our top 10 water resistance scores are 10 or 11.
Andrew	Yep. Size is 10.
Everett	Every single one of our sizes is 10 with one exception to a couple of exceptions actually. But close. Um, movements, the, the, the amount of movement variety in these watches is extremely low. All sixes or sevens pretty much. Um, You know, shoes, the strap bracelet situation, kind of all over the place. Aesthetic, naturally, all very close, sevens and eights, one nine. Durability, durability numbers are all extremely high because this category is specifically intended to be durable.
Andrew	So- And versatile. So for those of you who are just catching up, durability for us includes not just that it's 316L steel, It's also that it's versatile. It kind of incorporates some of that design aesthetic, but it's a watch that you can put on leather, rubber, nylon, bracelet, wear anywhere. It encapsulates that, but it's also the watches, you know, for me, it doesn't need to be Sapphire, but Sapphire is a big point pusher in durability.
Everett	Should we actually walk through the categories here?
Andrew	Yeah, we should. It's been a while since we've done an objective.
Everett	If you're unfamiliar, we've got a rubric for the objectively best X watch. We apply it uniformly to all watches, dive watches, dress watches, chronographs. Um, it has the following categories and available scores.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	We start with water resistance, which is important, which is an important category. Water resistance is our only category in which you can get 11 points bonus point. If you will, you can get a bonus point diminishing return even. For water resistance, we will give you one point for every 10 meters for every atmosphere of water resistance. Up to 110, a hundred, uh, up to a, up to 110 meters of water resistance and anything over 110 meters is extra and we don't score it. So a hundred is 10 and 110 is 11 points. So if you have 150, you get 11 points. If you have. 200, you get 11 points. A thousand? 11 points. If you get 100, you get 10. Yeah. Size. This is a fun one.
Andrew	I can't wait for someone to come out with 110 meters of water resistance just to get that extra point.
Everett	Yeah. That's, I mean, really that's the size. Size. So size is a weird one.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	Size is a weird one. Uh, it's oftentimes the hardest to score, although in this category it wasn't. Um, Size for anything between and including 38 to 40 millimeters, you get 10 points. And as you get away from those numbers, you lose one point for every half millimeter. So a 40.5 millimeter watch scores nine points. A 36, six points. Score six points, a 36 and a half scores, seven points, et cetera, et cetera. So between 38 and 40, including inclusively 10 points movement. Movement is a hard one because how do you peg a movement? I think we, Andrew and I have developed kind of an informal process for scaling that score. And generally. I think we agree on this and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but we start with a high quality Swiss or Japanese quartz movement and a five.
Andrew	Yeah. We could probably make this a one to five scale.
Everett	A Miyota 8,000 is a five.
Unknown	Yep.
Everett	An NH movement, a Seiko NH movement, NH 35, you know, the, the, 7S26 included, or the 4R, whatever, that's a 6. A Miyota 9000, an ETA 2824, a Solida, what is it, 200, is a 7. A 6R is an 8. No, no, a 6R is a 7, excuse me. Above that, you know, you get your eights and nines and tens. And then, you know, if you've got something with a complication, we plug it in wherever we feel like.
Andrew	And here's where it is important for me. Movement has context for me. So on a dive watch, if you put a mechanical movement in it, if you put a hand cranker in my diver, I don't care if it's the finest movement that has ever been made one of a kind in the world. You're losing points for that.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	Because if my watch stops clicking when I am underwater, I will die and that will bug me.
Everett	Yeah. I mean, nobody dies, but yes, I get the point.
Andrew	So there's some context to the movements, right? In, in the dress sport category for me, I want an automatic movement, a quartz movement, an eco drive, something that's going to be ready available and I'm not going to have to hand wine. Yeah. I don't really want to courts. I'd be down with ego drive. I'd be down with a hack. I'd be down with a Mecca courts.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	But there, there's a little bit of objectivity there and a little bit of subjectivity kind of sliding in the scale of application of the technology.
Everett	The category Andrew calls shoes, our next category. I call it shoes. Strap bracelet. Um, I think the easiest way to sort of explain this one is at least in my mind, and I think Andrew might have a different take on this. The Sarb, the Sarb bracelet you know and love, which is a fairly good bracelet, but it has some problems. It's a seven.
Unknown	Yep.
Everett	And I just start there and, and I, and I move, I move left or right depending.
Andrew	You know, the, uh, the Alpinas, is the exact same bracelet but with solid end links. It's also still a 7.
Everett	I do. I do. Aesthetic. That's an easy one.
Andrew	How good does it look? And fit the design it's intended to fit.
Everett	Durability slash versatility. How good is this thing for doing things with? Yep. Those are all 10 point categories with the exception of water resistance. And then we have two 5 point categories. and miscellaneous. I will tell you for this category, we're going to talk about a bunch of really, really good watches with good loom. Everything got a four, the best loom you can get on the market. Well applied is a four. Yep. It needs to have something extra to get a five. Yep. Uh, Indiglo, famously on our show, I believe, is one of the few fives we've given in the Lume category.
Andrew	Notice often gets fives for me. And then we've got another five. And SWC gets fives for me in Lume.
Everett	Well, SWC does crazy shit with Lume. 90 layers! And then we've got a miscellaneous X-Factor. This is the most touchy-feely category. Is this cool? How cool is this? How cool is this watch?
Andrew	Is the brand doing something cool? Is the design something cool? Yes. Is the, is it innovative or is it a repeat of round watch, straight lugs, white dial crown guards?
Everett	All of the watches we scored today, almost all of them would have been first, second in any other objectively best episode we've ever done just in terms of score.
Andrew	Yeah. For reference. The point difference between my first place watch and my second place watch was six points.
Everett	Your last place watch.
Andrew	Yeah, not second place, last place.
Everett	Yes, that's right. So we very often have huge swings in terms of score. We just don't this week. We've got some honorable mentions. In fact, we'll probably honorable mention about six or seven watches. A couple of those didn't do well. because they have lower water resistance. I'm telling you, if you wanted to be in the running in this, in this episode, you needed to have a hundred meters. You need to have 110. And if you didn't, you weren't going to make it all of our top four, all of our top four have 150 or better water resistance.
Unknown	Yep. Yeah.
Everett	So that's, that's the rubric.
Andrew	And with that, we had some watches that didn't do well this week. We have some like 19th place finishers. With these watches, this rubric, this is the Olympics.
Everett	You had to bring your A game.
Andrew	You had to bring your A game. There is no watch on here that I wouldn't be very pleased to own. There are just watches that are objectively by the grading standards by which we grade and assess watches better than others. And there's some killers on this list that do not do well.
Everett	Well, why don't we do that? Why don't we start with some honorable mentions? Why don't we start first with our lower water resistance watches? Because I think some of these are pretty cool.
Andrew	I want to start with what I knew was going to do poorly, but had to include because it's one of my favorite off-brand, off-key watches in this category. And it's the Breaux Retromagic. Oh, Retromatic. I got autocorrected. Try typing Retromatic in your phone. It'll autocorrect to Retromagic. This is, by design, by aesthetic, everything that a dress sport watch is. It's clean, it's refined, it's attractive, but you know, 50 meters of water resistance.
Everett	Took it out of the run.
Andrew	That's a six point swing right away.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	And then you start looking at loom and this is closer to a dress watch in the way it's specked.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	But this is, this is absolutely worth consideration for those of you who don't get wet.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. That's right. What's up next on our honorable mentions?
Andrew	For poor water resistance, what do you got?
Everett	I didn't rain any of the poor water resistance ones.
Andrew	So my next one, and I'm not real jacked to talk about it, but I'm gonna mention it. Its killer was its water resistance. It wouldn't have been a top 10 watch otherwise, but it went from a top you know, 15 to last because of its water resistance. And it's the Vinton 38 or the Vinton 30 from Shinola.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	Really classically designed sport watch. It has that very Shinola kind of railroady vintage inspired design. It's a good looking watch and it's 550 bucks. Yeah.
Unknown	They're not cheap, but they're not, they're not crazy expensive.
Andrew	They're very mid range. They're coming with high accuracy courts. They're assembled in the U S there. They look good. I've never, I haven't ever been hands-on with one, but it's water resistance, man. 50 meters kills you in this category.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	Cause in this category, at least for me. So I had an interesting experience when you Google dress watch, We get dress watches. When you Google sports watch, you get Suunto's. When you Google sport watch, you get Timex. This category is kind of lost to orology, which kind of makes it cool in that the way this category exists, you know, the OPs, the Explorers and everything down the line, right? And I use those as sort of the pinnacles because that's what we look to. Everything in this category doesn't fall into an homage or in a wannabe, but it falls into the field of place of. You need that. You need that adventurer spirit of a watch that you can fuck up and not hurt.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right.
Andrew	It can be with you to climb Everest and to hold your kids. You can change a diaper in it and you can dive in it. You can do anything in these watches. And that's why water resistance is so important, because this is the adventurer's watch. This is the one watch to rule them all kind of thing. So that was my other really poor water resistance experience.
Everett	So another watch that made our list today didn't make our tops, the Veyra V. You scored this one slightly better than I did. Either way, it wasn't really in the running. Uh, this is a watch. It's kind of hard to get. They, they typically don't come on bracelets, although they have released a bracelet for this watch, but there's just a super cool company. Yeah. These things are assembled in the United States. Automatic movements. Um, super like, like simple, unobjectionable field watch dials.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	Cool company. Cool dudes from LA.
Andrew	Very GM Lang, super simple. but not a copy. And if you don't care if it's assembled in the U.S., you don't have to get that. You can pay less and get it assembled elsewhere.
Everett	That's right. That's right. They do some neat stuff. Another watch that I thought, I think we both thought might do a little better than it did, the DressKX. Yeah. Also, I will say, if you Google Seiko DressKX, which is a term that was coined here on this show. I believe that that was coined here. If you Google Seiko dress KX, the top link is a link to the Seiko website where they sell the SRPE models. I don't know. I assume that that's not Google and that that's Seiko, but I could be wrong.
Andrew	I mean, we were the first ones to be hands-on and to publish on it.
Everett	Maybe not the first ones, but amongst the first.
Andrew	We were the first ones publishing on it.
Unknown	That's right.
Andrew	And we were also the only ones to call the Sex KX, which hasn't taken off in Google yet. Don't Google it, especially on a work computer yet.
Everett	It didn't do great. It did okay. It's got a poorer movement than many of these watches. It's got not a great bracelet. And so it just couldn't compete. It's such a great watch. But as you'll see as we move forward, the rest of the watches as we move up are just incredible.
Andrew	So it's such a competitive category, such a competitive category.
Everett	That's right. Uh, and I think the next one, I think the next one that we should talk about, um, I think I scored this just a little bit better than you did. Not much. Um, but a watch I think is really cool. Uh, the Batavia architect, this is a watch that I recently reviewed. Um, and I think it's just fantastic. I think Batavi is a great brand. I think that what they did with this watch is great. It's, it's got this really deceptive dimensional thing going on where it feels bigger than it actually probably is, but also doesn't feel too big. Um, it's really, really sexy. It, it, it didn't score as well as some of these others, at least on my list, because it's got kind of poor loom. Uh, it, it does not prioritize loom. Um, It's a wood dial, right? Well, there's a wood dial, there's a copper dial, and then there's like, I think, a blue enamel dial. So different materials, really, really neat watch.
Andrew	It's very Kickstarter-y, like super innovative.
Everett	Yes. Let's see how it does. Yeah, that's right. I think it's a great watch. It just didn't score that well. And when I say it didn't score that well, it would have basically won any other list we've done. Um, with that said, I think you didn't like the fact that it's an integrated bracelet.
Andrew	I don't like integrated bracelet lug combinations. It's really limiting for me in this category. And I don't know what category it's going to do better in, but basically any other category that this watch falls in where we score it, it wins.
Everett	Yeah. You know, I gave you some shit earlier because I think that that take is maybe got some limitations, you know, I think one of the most classic dress sport watches, the AP Royal Oak, uh, is an integrated bracelet and I don't like it. Um, and, and so, so I think for me, I take a little bit more open-minded stance, uh, into in just, just to say, I think if it's got a great bracelet, it could be great. Um, in this case, uh, I really like the bracelet on the Batavi. I did not like the clasp. It's got a butterfly clasp and I wasn't a fan. I like this. The bracelet is great though. So yeah, it just didn't make the cut.
Andrew	So we're through our honorable mentions. Yeah, we... And we're at 40 minutes.
Everett	We've got a few more that we can probably grind through here. Okay. The Yemafly graph. Yep. The GM Lang trail seeker. GM Langer. GM Langer trail seeker. Um, the Traska commuter. Yeah.
Andrew	Which would have done better if it was, if it were bigger, if it were bigger, that's right.
Everett	Which is unfair.
Andrew	Um, it was, it did only lose three points.
Everett	The, the notice sector sport. Great watch. Just didn't quite make it a little bit short. Helios Universa. I scored the Helios Universa well enough to be in a, to be in our top four or five. you did not and there's some things you don't like about it.
Andrew	Biggest thing for me is a hand cranker in a dress sport. I want to dress sport to be an automatic. I want it to be high accuracy courts. I want it to be maybe an ego drive and even that's going to take a hit. Hand cranker for me in this category is a no go.
Everett	And I think there was some aesthetic things you didn't like.
Andrew	Yeah, there's a couple other aesthetic things that are just a miss for me.
Everett	So that, that right there, is our honorable mention list. We've got five watches left to talk about, and so you know these watches, many of them. I think there'll be a couple surprises on here. With that said, I think we can get right to it. Bottom of this pack, the Traska Summitier.
Andrew	Yeah, which should be no surprise because it was our best sport watch under $501. Right. Which is not to say that paying more money necessarily makes it more better. It is to say that it just didn't quite hold up to its competitors in this category.
Everett	That's right. And, and right. It does really well, a hundred meters of water resistance. So it quote unquote loses a point.
Andrew	It did. And if it gets, if it's 110 meters, it probably wins. It gets much closer.
Everett	Um, it does do well. It's got that. So this does a little bit better than some of the other watches in the durability category, because it's got this proprietary scratch resistant coating.
Andrew	So it makes up that point.
Everett	It makes up the point. Um, it's got a decent, it's got a decent movement. It's got a Miota 9000, which is, you know, in our minds as good as a Miota 2824. Um, it, it's a fantastic watch. You guys great size, 38 and a half millimeters, full marks, fantastic bracelet. Um, I think it's maybe just a little boring for me.
Andrew	Yeah. It's a little fieldy for me for this category. It kind of is, is the way that Laurier is a touch fun with the texture dial to be going with a 36 millimeter, what ought to be a dress watch in the Falcon. Um, but I kind of liked that. It just is a slight miss.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	Just a touch miss, which is not to say I don't love this watch. It's just a touch of a miss for this kind of specific category of something that could fit as a dress watch, but also could fit with a t-shirt.
Everett	Fourth place.
Andrew	I don't remember. You have the final scores.
Everett	Orion Hellcat.
Andrew	Trax.
Everett	We've talked about this watch so many times, you guys.
Andrew	Surprised it didn't do better.
Everett	Yeah. Well, And so looking at the scores, it does well in every category. The bracelet, I think it loses maybe one. It's got a lovely bracelet, but the bracelets it's up against are just a little bit better.
Andrew	And you require a special tool, right?
Everett	It lost, it lost no point, no points for the tight tolerance.
Andrew	No, but it gained some points for that.
Everett	Yeah. So, so yeah, I mean it loses a point for water resistance cause it's only a hundred meters.
Unknown	Uh, so
Everett	And when we say lose a point, that's almost a perfect score, you guys. So 10 points water resistance, 10 points size on my list. Andrew's list is slightly different.
Andrew	Well, the size and water resistance are the same.
Everett	Seven points movement. Yep. Seven points bracelet. I gave it an eight for looks, which is the second highest score I gave to any watch today for looks. Eight for a durability, right? It's got everything you need to be a super durable watch. Four on loom, because the loom is great. And a four on X-Factor, because it's a really fucking cool watch. I don't know what more we can say about the Hellcat, because you guys should go buy one, and they're fucking awesome. It's the thinnest watch on this list, I believe.
Andrew	The PRX is probably thinner, and also the Vinton is like crazy thin, but in our top five.
Everett	In our top five, it's the thinnest watch. Yeah, by a mile. Coming in at number three, coming in at number three, the newly acquired by Andrew, Christopher Ward C63 Sealander automatic. So Andrew's got a slightly different version of this.
Andrew	No, I have the C63 auto. I have the white. You have the GMT though.
Everett	No. Oh, I thought you had the GMT. No. You've got the three hand. Okay. So this is the, this is the three hand automatic movement C63. Uh, And it scores, what, a half a point higher than the Hellcat combined.
Andrew	Yep. Yeah. For our averages. So this top five rating is the average of our two scores.
Everett	Yes. Yes. So just to be clear, Summiteer, 56.5. So that's the lowest by a pretty wide margin in the top five. The Hellcat, 58.5. The C63, 59. So combined between the two of us, we gave it one extra point.
Andrew	And for me, my only complaint about this watch is there is not enough taper on the bracelet.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. And I marked it down on the bracelet because the bracelet's very, I didn't mark it down, just didn't get top marks for a bracelet.
Andrew	It just needs a touch more taper on the bracelet. It's a little bit chunky. That's a great bracelet. It's got quick release. I like it. It's perhaps the perfect traveling watch. If you want to go somewhere for the weekend and you don't want to bring a bunch of watches,
Everett	or tools quick release bracelet c63 money next up so next up 59 and a half points the astro banks fortitude this surprised me it this is our second place watch i don't know that a lot of people are talking about this watch today because there have been so many releases in this category but this is a fantastic watch so good it's a fantastic watch Uh, where did, where did this thing stand out for you on your list? Cause I know you scored it pretty highly as well.
Andrew	Um, the aesthetic for me, it's, it's the color way, the, the, the colors, the way that Andrew has designed this thing from the ground up feels to me, the likes of Christopher Ward of Manta of these totally innovative from the ground up design watches. Yeah. His colors are perfect. The, and we got an opportunity to, you know, have one of these for a while. The way it wears, it becomes a part of you.
Everett	Yeah.
Andrew	It's, it's phenomenal.
Everett	And it's just executed really well at every corner. Yeah. Uh, and it's same for me. I gave this really high marks on the aesthetic because I think it's a really attractive watch. Uh, also also, uh, Durability. This gets an extra point over some of these other watches in the durability factor because it is got an anti-magnetic factor to it. Yes. And that's not something that we see a lot in this category.
Andrew	And we don't really know what it means, but we like it.
Everett	I mean, I do know what it means, but yeah, it is able to resist magnetic forces and keep the movement. The movement's less prone to becoming magnetized if you're working in a radiology lab or something.
Andrew	Or doing anything that for some reason watches get magnetized in. Yeah, that's right. Which seems to be like, I don't know, I was at a stoplight and then my watch got magnetized. Right. Who the fuck knows how it happened? I don't know.
Everett	So that's our number two watch. It surprised me that it was this high. I did not expect it to do quite as well on this list.
Andrew	I expected it to be a top five. I did not expect our number one to be the number one.
Everett	Number one watch. So this is a look, you guys, this might be a little controversial.
Andrew	It's controversial.
Everett	It's, it's, it might be, we picked The Seiko Alpinus.
Andrew	Alpinus.
Everett	Alpinus as our number one watch. We both scored this thing higher than anything else on our list.
Andrew	By a point.
Everett	By a point. Yeah, that's right. We're really very close. We're really very close on these. But for reference, Fortitude, so C63 59, Fortitude 59.5, this thing's 60, right? So there's not a lot in between these watches. The Alpinist wins it. The Alpinist is the objectively best sport watch under $1,000. Yep. Dress sport watch.
Andrew	And you know what? There's some controversy here.
Everett	Yeah, let's talk about it.
Andrew	It's got a second crown. It's got an internal rotating bezel. And for me, I'm okay with that.
Everett	Me too.
Andrew	And I'm okay with it for several reasons. Number one is the second crown doesn't appear Like a chronograph pusher?
Everett	It doesn't poke out. I mean, it does poke out a little bit.
Andrew	If it's a crown, it must. But the integration of the second crown and how thin that internal rotating bezel is, this watch was clearly designed for this purpose with an extra. This watch was, is, should be, a direct competitor with the Explorer, with the OP, in the way of aesthetic, in the way of functionality. It's just got a little something extra. And I dig it. Not just because I have one. Not just because I love them.
Everett	No, you have one because you dig it.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	That's right.
Andrew	This watch is so fucking cool. It has all the things and just a little bit extra.
Everett	You know, this, this is the watch that won our, this is the watch that won our, I mean, it wasn't a win, but this is, you know, when we did our Explorer, uh, show, you know, poor man's Explorer, our last most recent, uh, it was like, Hey, really you guys, this is the answer. And then we're going to talk about some other watches, but forget everything else we say, because the Alpinist is the answer. This is, so first, I mean, this gets high marks for me on X-Factor. It's the only five I had today for X-Factor. Uh, and there's some good reasons for that. I'll talk through them real quick. Uh, the first, the Alpinist line is a storied line. Yes. Uh, it's very, very Japanese, which I think is cool. Um, it is a watch that was made to be awesome and has remained awesome in a way we don't see a lot in this industry. Uh, you know, with the exception of Rolex or perhaps Omega, we don't see companies keeping watches awesome like this. And it's changed notably in some ways, but they've always had it.
Andrew	The DNA has remained.
Everett	It's always been awesome and they've never neutered it. Yep. In fact, they improve it.
Andrew	So well, I don't know. The latest release is a bit of a degradation.
Everett	Yeah, I don't think that's a real I don't think that's a real in any way. So it's got a six hour movement, which competes side to side with a 2824 or Miyota 9000 in our scale. It's got fantastic durability score, because it's just built to fucking take a whooping, and I have given it a whooping blow out of the water loom.
Andrew	150 or 200 meters of water resistance. Great design is Simultaneously a tool watch with its internal compass and a dress watch. And that X-Factor, it's just got the thing.
Everett	It's just fucking cool.
Andrew	It's golden buzzery. I don't know why, but it gets it.
Everett	That's right. That's right. Uh, so what, what reference did you pull up the SBPB?
Andrew	I use the SBDC reference. Uh, You know, XXX.
Unknown	Mm-hmm.
Everett	Yeah, yeah. You know, it doesn't really matter. You can get the Osarbo 17 still for 500-ish bucks.
Andrew	You can get the SBDC line on GNOMNOM for $668, I think.
Everett	Yeah. All of these have a, so the new ones use the 6R35 movement with the big power reserve. I know you're not a big fan of extended power reserves.
Andrew	It's not, but it's a thing, right? It matters-ish. That's right.
Everett	Uh, you know that the sarbo one seven will have the the lower power reserve 6r 15. Um, but it's just It's just great man. It's the coolest watch and it looks good I would wear this to court any day of the week and not think twice about it.
Andrew	The bracelet looks good It's the sarb bracelet for those of you familiar. Yep, solid in links You were commenting on I had my sarb on that bracelet. You're like have you ever even worn this bracelet? I was like that that must be the alpinist bracelet because Yeah, I have worn the SARB bracelet and I've only ever worn the SARB on Rubber and the Mankey.
Everett	So that's it?
Andrew	Yeah, that's it. That's the winner. The objectively best under a bill.
Everett	And now, and to the extent you, so here's the thing, we talked about 10 watches. To the extent you disagree, the winner is just, the Astron begs for it too. Okay, you guys. Just disregard the last four and a half minutes of our conversation, the winners, the fortitude.
Andrew	And let me, I'm just going to run down real quick. I'm not, I'm not going to link them all, but I'm going to run down the list of watches that we, we included in our ranking. Um, Alpinist, Falcon II, Sector Sport, C63, Hallios Universa, Orion Hellcat, Brew Retrograft, uh, Brew Retrograph, Traska Cemetery and Commuter, The GM Lang Trail Seeker, Shinola Vinton 30, the Tiso PR 100, the Astrum Banks Fortitude, Yema Flygraph, Certina DS2, Islander ISL 36, Tiso PRX, Batavi Architect, Seiko Dress KX, Veyr A5, Alcatraz OP 39.
Everett	Yeah. It's a, it's a hell of a list. This is right now probably the most. saturated, I say that term neutrally, saturated market in terms of micro brand watches and just watches in general, you know, you go to, you go to, uh, Macy's and you're going to find mostly watches that generally fit in this category. Um, so there's just a lot of great choices, but the watches that we talked about today are almost universally phenomenal.
Andrew	And the watches are just ran down when, most of the lists we've ever done.
Everett	That's right. That's right. How many of the lists that we've done with the GM Lang trail seeker win?
Andrew	I think at 240 bucks. I think the SARB is like 56, 57 points. Yeah. So the trail seeker comes in for me at 55. Right. And the SARB no longer counts. It's not readily available new in stock, like new in box there. It's on eBay for like 900 bucks. You can find it other places for like five to six, but I've seen a few at 400, but there's no new old stock. Sarb is gone.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	That's why it wasn't on this list.
Unknown	Yeah, that's right.
Everett	That's right. So that's it. That's it. Uh, send us your complaints. Uh, send us your, uh, your, your ideas for watches that we've missed. Feel free to rank, feel free to rank these watches yourself. You guys know the rubric. Uh, feel free to watch, to, to rate them yourselves and tell, tell us what you think we've got wrong.
Unknown	We didn't.
Everett	Andrew. Other things. What do you got, man? I know these well, and I like them. I'm sure that's not annoying to people at home.
Andrew	My other thing this week is snack food. It's called Whisps. Whisps. W-H-I-S-P-S. Cheese crisps. The bag that you have heard are Parmesan cheese crisps. It's Parmesan baked till it's crispy and cut into circles. It's so good.
Everett	It's so good, yeah.
Andrew	They have a few different flavors. The two that I really go for are Asiago pepper jack and regular ass Parmesan. They, you can get them at Costco, at least my Costco. I don't know how much they are. I just buy them. Because Costco you spend increments of $100. There's literally no in between. You go buy a thing, it's $100. You go buy six things, it's $200. 200. It's bizarro, their pricing model. It doesn't matter. So they're available on Amazon. They're the smaller packages. I think they call them their share or their personal size packages. They're amazing. For those of you unfamiliar with crispy cheese, what are you doing wrong with your life?
Everett	What are you doing wrong?
Andrew	Tomorrow morning, and I say morning, Grab a handful of shredded cheese, throw it in a pan, fry it till it's crispy, flip it till it's crispy, eat it.
Everett	Wait, wait 15 to 20 minutes. Seconds. It's gotta be a little hot. You like it hot and soft.
Andrew	Oh, I go fast.
Everett	I like it when it's a little, I like it when it's a little muted.
Andrew	That's fair. But what we can agree on is that fried cheese is the truth. This isn't fried. I think these are baked or air fried or something. Cause they're, they're like fluffy, kind of like Cheeto-y. Um, they're so good. I don't care how much they cost. They're that good. And here's the thing. So my wife is keto again.
Everett	Yeah, I'm not. I'm keto. But and so I eat these.
Andrew	I don't care. You don't live in my house. Your snacks don't affect me. Her snacks affect me. Your snacks affect me a little bit, but not as much as hers. These are keto friendly. They're gluten free. They're all the like dietary restrictions suitable. Unless you're a low-fat diet, and then sorry for all kinds of reasons. High-fat, high-protein, sweet because it's Parmesan, salty, crunchy. I prefer these to Cheetos. I prefer these to Doritos. They're so good. So if you're looking for a new snack to add to your lineup of snacks, or if you're kind of dipping your toe in the water at Keto and looking for something crunchy, because that was my issue with Keto. Crunchy, like crispy. A little hard to find. And also be delicious. Right here. Yeah. Whisps. Whisps.
Everett	Whisps.
Andrew	I'm going to eat one while you listen. Really good.
Everett	Not going to because it would be miserable to listen to. There are, listen you guys, this is an add-on to Andrew's other thing. This is not my other thing. There are recipes that you can find very easily online to make cool ranch Dorito seasoning. You take ranch powder. Yeah, I've done ranch meatballs. So good. Add them to some added to some other stuff. If you take these things and coat them or popcorn or whatever your snack of choice is and coat them in cool ranch flavored. It's happening. Seasoning. It will change your life. Do it with popcorn, right? So get popcorn. You can air pop it or better. You can stove pop popcorn and then immediately dust it in cool ranch. Fuck. It will change your life, you guys.
Andrew	It's changing my life just thinking about it. I was arguing with someone that blue cheese stuffed meatballs were superior to ranch stuffed meatballs because ranch is a liquid.
Everett	Yeah, blue cheese stuffed meatballs are good.
Andrew	But then I made ranch seasoning mixed stuffed meatballs. They're also pretty good. They're no blue cheese because you don't get that crisp from the melted cheese, but they're also pretty good.
Everett	So I've got another thing. This is a little weird, but I think it's, I think it's timely that we bring it up. So some of you guys know I run occasionally very long distances.
Andrew	Um, cause he gets lost. It's not a function of desire.
Everett	Um, I, uh, in the midst of running, have all sorts of, you know, equipment that you might need for running long distances. That's right. That's right. Uh, Epi pens. Um, of the most importance for running distances longer than about say 15 miles, which I do pretty regularly, um, a bladder, a hydration bladder is an important thing to have. Uh, hydration bladders are one of those places where you try to research and it's very hard to figure out what's good and what's bad. And there's some good reasons for that. One is that many, many manufacturers are making very good hydration bladders today. And they're at the top kind of indistinguishable, right? You see, you know, good reliability, you see good quality, all those things. But I am a guy who's used a lot of hydration bladders. And the last one I bought is the best I've ever used. And there's a couple reasons for that. One, it fills extremely easily. I've had some hydration bladders that fill easier, but by way of filling easier, they also leaked. This fills very easily. It does not leak. It has been extremely durable. As far as I can tell, I haven't had it long enough to give it a long-term durability review. It drinks faster than any other hydration bladder I've ever used, which in certain circumstances, that doesn't matter. But when you're running 40 miles through the mountains in Central Oregon, that's an extremely nice feature. This is a company called Platypus, which is well known, well known in what? the outdoor world for their hydration.
Andrew	You know what's super nice about their straw? It fits on smart water bottles.
Everett	Their hose does. That's right. Yeah, it does. And furthermore, the screw and the straw screws on and the screw, sorry, the thread, the cap, is the same cap as like a standard water bottle that you'd get the store and also the same thread size for a Sawyer squeeze water filter. So you can use these with a Sawyer squeeze water filter. If you're in the sticks, uh, what you couldn't do would be to fill it through the water filter.
Andrew	If you were using it to squeeze through the, I've used a platypus bladder for a while. And I have used a poison platypus bladder before I brought it home to bleach it, because I always keep backups because two is one, one is none. And I usually have smart water bottles, but I had one that was leaking. My extra bladder was empty. I filled it, was filtering it into my new platypus bladder, all with the same straw because those thread counts are all the same. So I had my poison bladder, my drinking bladder, my Sawyer squeeze, and my straw.
Everett	It's perfect.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	It's perfect.
Andrew	I needed it because otherwise I would have died.
Everett	So if you're looking for a hydration bladder and you may be, I don't know, uh, if you aren't, if you use any, if you're ever the type of person to use a hydration bladder, get a platypus.
Andrew	Next time, just get one. Get a platypus.
Everett	Get one now.
Andrew	Two is one, one is none.
Everett	The one I have is the platypus hoser. It's called a hoser. Canadian? Two liter platypus hoser hands-free hydration system water reservoir. Uh, the mouthpiece is great. That's something I think most companies are doing pretty well today, but just the water flow, the water flow is better than any other reservoir I've ever used ever before.
Andrew	Concur. That's it, man. If you just said anything else, I would have like, I'd have punched you or something.
Everett	Well, that's good because Sometimes we have different opinions about things, and that's okay, and that's good. But we've never talked about this topic. So it's kind of cool that we've come to the same conclusion totally independently.
Unknown	For real.
Everett	Andrew, what else do you got today before we exit the show once again for the end of the week?
Andrew	I had a wisp, man. I'm out of things.
Everett	Hey, thank you guys for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast. Check us out online, WatchClicker.com. As you know, that's where WatchClicker puts all its reviews, articles, and every single episode of this podcast. You can check us out on Instagram at 40 and 20 or at WatchClicker. We post regular updates, pictures, cool stuff on Instagram like everybody else does. If you want to support the show or the WatchClicker project generally, you can do so at Patreon.com. slash 40 and 20. Yep. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Andrew	Bye bye.