Episode 133 - Watches and Social Media

Published on Wed, 12 May 2021 21:34:43 -0700

Synopsis

The hosts Andrew and Everett discuss the impact of social media on watch collecting and the hobby. They explore how the constant exposure to watches and hype on platforms like Instagram can create unnecessary pressures and influence purchasing decisions in unhealthy ways. They emphasize the importance of finding joy in the watches you genuinely appreciate, rather than chasing trends or being swayed by likes and engagement. The conversation touches on the concept of "Joy of Missing Out" and encourages disconnecting from social media occasionally to appreciate watches without external influences. Overall, they advise approaching the hobby with self-awareness, seeking authentic enjoyment, and avoiding the pitfalls of social media-driven consumerism.

Transcript

Speaker
Everett Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. You're listening to 40 and 20, the Watch Clicker podcast with your hosts, Andrew and my good friend Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you? I'm fine. You sound like shit. And I'm out of breath.
Andrew I'm doing really well, man. Yeah. No, it's been it's been a nice week. It's been lovely out. It's been lovely out. Uh, I went to the driving range today.
Everett Weird.
Andrew Weird, right? Uh, yeah. No, I mean, it's, I'm good. I don't have any complaints.
Everett Good for you.
Unknown Yeah. Yeah.
Everett How are you? Uh, I'm the best I've been in a week.
Unknown So, which is good.
Everett Cause I don't sound like it, but here's the, uh, for those of you who don't spend the entire week with me, after we recorded our last episode, I lost my voice. Again, it was going, it was going, it was rough. It was maybe worse than I am today. But for the last week, I haven't been able to speak above a whisper.
Andrew Yeah. Which is actually really nice for everybody in your life.
Everett Yeah. They loved it. Yeah. Um, it bugged me a lot, but, um, yeah, I'm physically feeling pretty good. Still a little bit of a cough hanging on. And obviously the, um, I've been, I've heard it as Will Arnett and as Batman, uh, sounding voice. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Take your pick. Um, I like Batman better, but, uh, I do also like the idea of doing illusions. So, you know, that's an option.
Andrew I mean, it's like, Will Arnett, Batman.
Everett Yeah.
Andrew Yeah.
Everett Ooh, that would be bad. That would be very bad.
Andrew Isn't Will Arnett Batman in the Lego? Is he? Wow. Now I'm going to just regret having said that for the whole episode. I don't know. And I'm not going to look it up.
Everett Yeah, doesn't matter. Did you see that? Oh my gosh. Why can't I think of his name? It's not Val Kilmer. Who's the other guy who played Batman in the modern era?
Andrew George Clooney?
Everett No.
Andrew Uh, Michael Keaton?
Everett Yeah. Michael Keaton is, is going to show up as Batman again.
Andrew I did not see that. Yeah. I didn't see that. Is that a true story?
Everett That is what I heard it and I don't remember where I heard it, but it's, he's showing up, uh, in the DC universe again where he'll be mentoring somebody.
Andrew Vindicated.
Everett It is. It is Arnett, huh?
Andrew It's Will Arnett. Yeah. That's what I thought you were saying.
Everett No. Well now I feel a lot better on my voice.
Andrew Yeah. It's not, it's not like straight Will Arnett. It's Batman Will Arnett.
Everett That's a nicer way than, you know, could have gone with that. But other than that, you know, I'm good. Yeah. You know, just plugging away.
Andrew Drinking Michelob Ultra Organic Seltzers.
Everett They are good.
Andrew Delicious. And they're USDA organic, which is incredible.
Everett So they come in some odd flavors. We've got spicy pineapple, cucumber lime, and peach pear.
Andrew Peach pear is good. They are all very good. Yeah. Peach pear is good. It's the only one I've had.
Everett They're all just, it's just a breath of flavor.
Andrew Yeah.
Everett It's a seltzer, but it's, it's less flavor and less sweet than a lot of seltzers.
Andrew Yeah. They're good.
Everett 4% alcohol, zero sugar, 80 calories.
Andrew Get you, get you, get you crunk for cheap.
Everett Good luck. There's 4% alcohol. Yeah.
Andrew Well, I mean, I have 4% in this. I'm a lightweight buddy. Yeah. Drink these like water. So, so Andrew, Yes, Everett. Can we talk about the thing that arrived today from London?
Everett We should. I got a package in the mail today. It's a Spice Girl, you guys. Yep.
Andrew It's Scary Spice. It's Mel B right here.
Everett In my house. Actually better, I think. Well, I don't know.
Andrew Mel B is hot, dude.
Everett Yeah. I think I'm more happy with this. I think Mel B being in my house could cause more issues than this being in my house. Today, DHL delivered the Christopher Ward C63 Sealander automatic in white. And guys, I'm in love. When we saw our read ahead, when they announced these. When we saw what? Our read-ahead, like the press release that was embargoed.
Andrew Our read-ahead. I was like, who's read-ahead? I've never heard of this lady.
Everett When we saw our read-ahead, I immediately said, I'm going to buy that watch. And then you did. The day after it released, I bought this watch and it's here. Shipping was a bit of a pain, but it's here.
Andrew You know what, we should have Mike France from Christopher Lloyd on the show so we can bitch at him about shipping to the U.S.
Everett Christopher Ward.
Andrew What did I say?
Everett We should also have Christopher Lloyd on the show. That would be maybe more fun.
Andrew I have had one drink of one four percent seltzer so we can't blame the alcohol.
Everett Yeah, shipping was a bit of a pain and the DHL updates were not great. No, they didn't tell you anything. No, no, no. DHL is really, really specific in their updates. But the problem is yesterday it got released from Portland and it's statused with the courier for delivery. And then it didn't change all night and all morning. And I was like, maybe this guy is walking the 100 miles. Maybe he's a bike courier. Like what, what is happening? And then I got a text at about one o'clock today.
Unknown Hey,
Andrew Nice. Can I see it again? Can I see it again? You guys, this is our first Christopher Ward experience. This is officially our first Christopher Ward experience. I mean, it's your first Christopher Ward experience.
Everett Well, we're experiencing it for the first time, but it is my watch. This is really great. It's very good. And we brought some other comparative watches. Some comps, if you will. Yeah. Some parallels maybe. we'll call them. So we brought a Orion Hellcat, a Seiko Saab, a Manta Atlas, and a Seiko Alpinist.
Andrew All sitting on the desk right now.
Everett Yeah, all sitting to just compare this side by side to, because Evan, one of our writers, our writer, Evan.
Andrew I.I. Cortman.
Everett Yeah. Often makes fun of me for the amount of sport watches that I own.
Andrew It is the best watch though. Dress sport watch is the best. But I don't own that many. Four. You own six watches and four of them are dress sports.
Everett No, I did a count yesterday because my wife was like, how many watches do you even have? And I was like, don't do it. Don't do it. Be like, I don't know. That's what I said. I'm like, I don't know. 12, 19. Damn. And a lot of watches in my room. Um, So yes, I don't, I didn't tell her that.
Andrew Um, don't do that. The case on that thing is great. You know, uh, I was looking at the Atlas and I was like, gosh, you know, there are some similarities between this and the Atlas, you know, really not in any sort of practical design sense, but just in terms of details and the way they've made certain trends. But, but the one that, uh, the one that, that the watch sitting on the table, that feels to me the most similar, and this is purely case, is the Sarb 035. Oh, yeah. The Christopher Ward lightsaber case is very, very reminiscent of the Sarb case. Mm-hmm. There's some obvious differences. They're certainly not one-to-one. It's not even an homage situation, but they, for me, evoke a really similar feel.
Everett Very Maserati slick lines, long, slender, sexy lines through the whole case. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I would agree with you. And I told you to bring the Hellcat cause I was, I was interested in comparing against the, crazy tolerances of the Hellcat, and also those really long, sleek lines.
Andrew Of all these watches, the Hellcat is the most different. Yeah. It's sort of one of these things is not like the others. Very much so, yeah. You know, much thinner than anything else on the table. Much sleeker. And less sporty too, I think, you know, with those bar links on the bracelet. It just gives it a totally different feel. It doesn't feel like these other watches at all. But yeah, it's a great lineup.
Everett I will say, if you're looking at purchasing Christopher Ward, measure your wrist and pay the $10 to have the bracelet resized before they mail it to you.
Andrew Tell us about the process.
Everett These pin and collars were a nightmare because I just have the little cheap twist push out your pin.
Andrew Yeah, those things suck. You got to get a hammer. You got to get a hammer and punch.
Everett Yeah, I do.
Andrew You can get them for like three bucks on eBay.
Everett I know, but I don't, I didn't have one here in the moment. So I ended up getting a multi-tool and getting a good grip on the pin and removing the pin. One is bent beyond repair. The rest were good, but I scratched up my bracelet a little bit. uh during the process which is you know whatever it was going to get scratched up no matter what because bracelets though they're made of the same material look like you put them in a garbage disposal after like two wears yeah and i have no answer for that like the case great nothing on it maybe a greasy fingerprint bracelets just get chewed up like that wasn't a garbage disposal my hellcat clasp is yeah i mean it's eaten it's eaten it's eaten And we don't do shit in our watches.
Andrew I mean, I sit at a desk all day and just bang, bang the keyboard. Yeah, you do.
Everett It sound like I'm working a little reset hole. Um, the pin and collar was super tight, real pain to size. Once it's size though, you get a full link and maybe more in the micro adjusting sliding lock mechanism in the clasp, which is money. Yeah, this is, it's just, it's good all around. I'm very pleased.
Andrew You know what I like about Christopher Ward? Uh, well first I don't know the man about Christopher Lloyd, his hair, mostly that, you know what I like about Christopher Ward is nothing on that watch feels catalog. No, every element of that feels custom designed, made. Um, you know, we talk about, Microbrands a lot. I would say almost all of the microbrands that we talk about regularly, with the exception of Monta, we talk about Monta a lot. I'm not sure that Monta's really a microbrand. I guess they are. But I don't know that Christopher Ward really is either. Christopher Ward is definitely not a microbrand, right? In terms of the way I think about that, Christopher Ward's definitely not a microbrand. So I feel fine saying, by and large, microbrands are all using catalog clasps. There's a lot of catalog available. And when I say, when I say catalog, I don't mean, um, you know, something off the Esslinger or whatever. Right. But these manufacturers have a clasp, right? Uh, Hallios, obviously Jason's, you know, making his shit, designing engineering and making his shit. Monta's designing engineering, making their shit. Christopher Ward also, and for 800 bucks. Yeah. To get a fully designed watch, you know, I think... $6.95 if you don't get it on a bracelet. Yeah. Well, get it on a bracelet. Yeah, get the bracelet.
Everett Don't be dumb. Get the bracelet. Because it's quick release.
Unknown Quick release.
Everett And it's tight fitting. You're tight fitting. Easy. It's a good quick release bracelet.
Andrew Excellent. Yeah. Good stuff, man.
Everett Very. I'm very pleased. It's going to be hard to take this off. You know, Mike doesn't like this handset. I love this handset.
Andrew Yeah. Mike, you know what? Fuck that guy.
Everett Yeah. Degenerate. So, so what we should dive into the main event, the main topic.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I actually don't have anything. I literally don't have anything else to do.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew Yeah. I am actually, that's not true. I have other things to do, but this is five years in front of us though. So yeah, this is the thing I'm doing.
Unknown Yeah.
Andrew Yeah. So main topic we are talking tonight about watches as we know them. And by that I mean watches as part of, or perhaps as they're affected by social media through the lens of, Perhaps through the lens of social media. So how and what does a watch mean in the context of social media? And how do watches exist in social media? And how does that change how we interact with them? I think that we've touched on some of the things we're going to talk about today, but I think we're going to be a little bit sort of abstract.
Everett Yeah. And I think this year, I think this is the right time to be talking about this because for the last year, there haven't, there haven't been red bar events. There haven't been meetups. There hasn't been watching clock fair or wind up. There hasn't been any of these things that people would generally go to and see watches. 99% of the watches we've seen over the last year have been in the black mirror.
Andrew Your phone. Instagram.
Andrew Does anybody go to Watch You Seek anymore?
Everett Does anyone go to Facebook anymore?
Andrew I think Facebook is still pretty popular. Yeah.
Everett Are watches a thing on TikTok?
Andrew Maybe. Maybe we need to get on TikTok.
Everett We could probably do some dances. I know they're a thing on OnlyFans. We're making dope money on there. If you haven't found us yet, do.
Andrew You know, every once in a while when you say that, I think about, uh, like what, like just for a fleeting moment, my brain sort of drifts to what that would look like.
Everett And then I do like, yeah, it wouldn't look good. Wouldn't nobody have fun. They'd pay us to stop. It'd be a really interesting experiment. Um, So the last year, our watch world has been entirely virtual, barring the watches that you've purchased, barring the watches that a friend has loaned you, barring our occasional meetups and hangouts with people. It's been all virtual interaction.
Andrew Yeah, by and large. I mean, you know, it's interesting because I think for most of us, most of us in this world, even before this year, it was that right. There's probably about four percent. I'm going to be honest. I made that number up. No, there's no absolutely no reference statistic or basis for that. But four percent exactly of watch people ever attend Red Bar Windup, et cetera, et cetera. So I think the vast majority of watch people, this is the watch world notwithstanding a pandemic, a global pandemic. Yeah. Fair?
Everett Yeah. So how does that virtual interaction with watches our relationship with watches? How does it affect our opinion on them? And I think one of the important things for me is how does it affect our opinion of watchmakers and the value, and this isn't like the intrinsic value, this is very much the monetary value of a watch. Yeah. Because I'll tell you, when I see two Big Macs for $5, And I see a picture of two Big Macs. Good God damn. I think I'm robbing a bank. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go and get two Big Macs for $5. Those look amazing. And it's only $5. And I get it. And four bites later, they're gone. And three hours later, there's consequences.
Andrew And you don't feel good, right?
Everett No, never once have I eaten Big Macs and felt good.
Andrew It's a lot of bread. I mean, you can eat a bag, big Mac and probably be fine. No, I want to, I know you're an idiot.
Everett You remember in college when I did two big Macs and 20 nuggets?
Andrew Um, no, I did that once. It was bad. I do remember one time with Tommy getting like eight sausage McMuffins thinking there's going to be a bunch of people that were going to eat them. And then You know, I don't, not a sausage McMuffin with egg, just the sausage McMuffin. They were a buck a piece. So we got eight of them and nobody else ate them. And so we each had four sausage McMuffins and it was, it was rough. That's too many. It was rough. It was like, it wasn't like full. It was like greasy, just a grease pit. It was terrible.
Everett Gross. That being said, yeah.
Andrew Why are we talking about Big Macs?
Everett The, the, the deal, right? Sure. Because, Everyone can take good pictures. Not anyone. Not true. Anyone can take pictures of a watch and make it look good. You know, you send Will a picture of the gnarliest Invicta you can think of. Will's going to make it look fantastic.
Andrew Yeah, Will is one human being.
Everett Right. But anyone can find somebody to do that for their watch. Right? So we're in this world. I see. I see. We're in this world where our interaction with watches is entirely in pictures. A lot of renderings. And we see these pictures of MVMT or fossil or take your pick, right? Of big fashion brand. There's some gems in there. But by and large, just junkie watches, but you're going to get pictures that put them on par with any of the watches we have on the table. And you look at them and you're like, wow, why would I pay between $602,000 for a watch when I can get that one for 150? It's 316L steel. It's the same shit. It's a movement. It does all the things I need it to do.
Andrew It's 316L and it looks exactly like a Seiko Monster. Crazy.
Everett Yeah. So why would I pay the price of these other watches? And it creates this thing where people are like, well, you know, that'd be a good watch if it were 40 bucks. Well, fuck yeah, it would be a good watch over 40 bucks, but it wouldn't be a good watch over 40 bucks.
Andrew Well, so, okay. I went on a little tirade. Yeah, you did. That's okay. That's okay. I'm gonna ask you for more. I think... So this is a topic of your creation. Yeah. And I was a little bit curious when we started talking, I was like, where are you gonna go with this? And I think we took our research or show notes in different directions. Weird. It's very unusual for us. I'm curious about what your personal experience is having come in. I mean, we've got a similar sort of watch life trajectory, right? I'm curious about how for you engaging directly through social media, engaging with Avi directly through social media and almost exclusively for ever. for forever. How do you think if you're being, if you're Monday morning quarterbacking yourself or even just examining your experience, how has it affected things for you?
Everett It's interesting because as I was thinking of this, of this trajectory, right? My watch world started in the forums, right? But that's because of the type of person I am. I went to where people talk about the thing and I sat in the corner And I listened to them talk about the thing, to learn about said thing so I could get informed, so I could know what people are saying. And that's just kind of where I lurked. And then watches kind of started to become a thing on Instagram. Not just like, not just brands, but there were people like us who were taking pictures of watches and linking you out to articles and reviews and then we started doing this and everything changed and it sort of was like a new life in the way of interacting with watches because we have a unique experience. Um, but when I'm, when I was thinking back on it, the thing that struck me was the difference in those two worlds in the forum, Instagram versus the forum. Yeah. In the forums versus photo-based social media. In the forums, neckbeard runs rampant, right? That's where you learn about all the things to hate and why to hate them and why everyone else hates them. And you see people pile on the hate of God knows what for no reason. So you're like, well, I kind of like that, but everyone else hates it. So I guess I don't like it or maybe I suck. And then you move into Instagram. Well, we'll hang out in the forums for a minute. You get the occasional person who's like, no, no, no, no, no. Cool it here. This is good. And here's why. And there's just crickets.
Andrew You know, the forums do seem to feed on negativity, right?
Everett They love negativity. And then you transition into photo-based social media where you get the occasional hater, but it's all love. And I think part of that is in the early days, you could make a living on Instagram. You make some damn good money at the very least. So people are trying to pump things up, get excited and generate all this excitement and hype around things. that got everyone else excited. And then people started recreating that business model of super positivity, very little, um, substance critique. Yeah. There's substance, right? But very little critique, right? There's people aren't critical of shit in their Instagram posts. Cause number one, cause they're short. Right. But generally it's positivity.
Andrew Yeah. Well, and I would say that, that it is, there's positivity, but the, the problem with it is, is the singularity of the positivity, right? There, there's a, you know, there's a, it's like the cool kids at school, right? Yeah. If you're not, there's this perception and perhaps bolstered by the reality that if you're not, posting the watches that are darlings or whatever, um, that you're not getting likes. And I think maybe for me, that was my biggest takeaway and sort of thinking about this episode, researching this episode and, and look, guys, we're not going to say anything novel tonight. Nothing we're going to say is new, fresh, particularly, uh, thoughtful, um, speak for yourself. Okay. Uh, but, but yeah, right. I mean, it's this, it's this, uh, lowest common denominator of oohs and ahs by way of the heart and or like button, right?
Everett Cause there's no thumbs down. This is no Reddit, right?
Andrew Download. You know, I, I actually, uh, I didn't read at all or, or, or think directly about watches at all. in prepping for this episode. So I'm a subscriber of the Atlantic because I think it's just a fantastic, it's my favorite ocean. Uh, it's a good ocean. I'm a Pacific guy, but, um, so I, I read the Atlantic regularly. And also if you go to the Atlantic, you get, I think like three or four free articles per month. Uh, and they exhaust them pretty early in the month. Yeah. The, the, you know, the writing at the Atlantic is, Amazing. Uh, you know, depending on what you like, if you like good, good cerebral writing. Uh, but I read two articles on the Atlantic, which there'll be linked in the show notes. Yes.
Everett Go ahead. Uh, these articles were fantastic. They were like old timey country songs where somebody writes a song and then a year later somebody comes out with a response to that song. Yeah. Loved it.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah. So the first one, the first one is an article by really, really great tech writer, Rebecca Greenfield. She's written for Wired and New York Times and The Atlantic, amongst other things. It's easier to list who she hasn't. But this article is called Technology Doesn't Ruin Our Lives. We do. We do, and so this is not really an article about like culture or lowest common denominator stuff. Really what this article is about is about work-life balance in relationship with our devices, right? We've all got laptops, we've all got cell phones, smartphones with email most of the time, iPads, et cetera.
Everett I have three layered of screen before. Yeah. Like watch TV, had my laptop in my lap and been on my phone.
Andrew And this is my, this is my favorite line. And it's actually a quote from Alexis Madrigal, who's a fantastic tech writer. Um, but he says to suggest that one of the reasons we spend so many hours in front of our screens is that we have to This is the key point about our relationship with modern technology. This is the problem with the way we approach labor, not our devices. So it continues. In other words, this is about humans, not technology.
Everett Humans are inherently lazy, right? Email is the downfall of productivity in the American workplace, I think.
Andrew Well, that's an insane thing to say. Uh, but I don't think I don't think that's really the point. I think I think the point is Well, the point's clear, right? The the fact that we have a cell phone is not the reason you're Sitting on your couch where you should be spending time with your kids responding to emails The reason is that you haven't created balance. You haven't created Separation and I'm you know, this is this is a little abstract. So so forgive me and stick with me We need to be equally critical. We need to be equally critical with the way we experience watches, right? We don't need to be, sorry. We ought to be. I'm not even sure that's true. I mean, who cares, right? That is joyful for some people. The Instagram approach to watch collecting is joyful for some people. And I'm sure that there's going to be, there are going to be some of you. And in fact, I've heard arguments pitched elsewhere, um, to the tune that that is inherently bad. That the Instagram approach to watches is inherently bad. I don't agree with that. I don't buy it. Um, with that said, to the extent that that relationship causes you stress, It's a good opportunity to rethink how you're approaching it, right? If you love watches and you want to love watches and you want to enjoy watches outside of that social media hustle, got to get a Saab or Explorer or whatever, whatever the baby is. Simply engage with your watches outside of social media, right? It's social media is not the problem. You, you feeling stressed about this are the problem.
Everett And, and I want to also highlight.
Andrew That's not an accusation. Let me just clarify what I say. You, it makes it sound like it's an accusation, right? The point being the power is with all of us to change that dynamic.
Everett Yeah. And that's, that was part of the reason I wanted to talk about this. is the consumerism pressure that we get from, yeah, FOMO, very severe FOMO from seeing the darling on everyone's Instagram feed. It's in every forum. Everyone's got to write up on it. Well, I want that. Everyone says it's awesome. Even the forums like it. Even Neckbeard himself likes it. I need it.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett But I don't like this and this and this about it, but I want it because everyone else does. I want it. What's my problem? And that's, there's some pressure there, right? And I, and I think that that's part of the struggle that we faced entering the hobby. is that there's not the love for the watches that we could afford at the time. Yeah. The watches we were comfortable affording at the time.
Andrew Absolutely.
Everett There's nothing out there. There was nothing out there.
Andrew It was, yeah. The pickings were slim as they say.
Everett Yeah. The sub $500 category was by Sarb, by SKX, Save up, buy $1,000, take your pick. Why would you buy anything else?
Andrew Get a Steinhardt. Yeah. If you're feeling real fancy, get a Steinhardt.
Everett Yeah. And that puts a lot of pressure on somebody who's getting into watches and refining their taste, refining the things they like about a watch, who's going to go out there and make some purchases of watches they really love that nobody else does.
Andrew Yeah, you know, Anil Dash, another tech blogger, we're going to, I'm going to talk a little bit about tech bloggers. I think tech bloggers maybe get a bad name. I find that the vast majority of my reading, maybe not majority, but a significant portion is, is, you know, well written tech, tech writers, tech journalists, perhaps. Anil Dash, one of my favorites, he wrote an article once about Jomo. Have you heard of this? He may have coined this term. Rather than the fear of missing out, it is the joy of missing out, which is a little bit of a silly thing to say, right? But that's the point. Allow yourself, allow yourself the time, the space, the joy of missing it, right? And I know that you and I, uh, interact with social media differently. Um, at times, um, I have really at very, you know, really, really deeply enjoyed at various times at different levels and in different ways. I've really enjoyed opportunities to get away from whether it's the it watch. And by that, I don't mean by that, I don't mean. uh, eschewing sort of darling watches, but, but rather picking a watch that I love for myself. And I've talked about this a lot. You know, my titanium G shock, which everybody hates is my, is one of my favorite watches. It's one of my favorite watches. My Pulsar G 10, which I think is having a moment right now. And I'm not sure why, because it's dope. When I picked that up, I think that that was clearly, clearly by a very long margin, you know, the redheaded stepchild to the CWC G10 of similar proportions and looks. And I got the Pulsar because I liked that Pulsar. I liked the way it looked. I liked the lugs. You know, that's a little bit less of a point than the G-Shock. But point being, those are two of my most cherished watches. They were cheap. Nobody likes them when I post pictures of them on Instagram. Nobody even likes them IRL. Well, the Pulsar people like the Pulsar, but that G-Shock, nobody likes that. You're the only one. No, I'm not. I'm not. You know, a good friend, Luke Albert, uh, digs them. Uh, you know, there, there are a few people who know them and love them and it doesn't matter. That's the point. Who cares? I, I love that watch. I genuinely adore wearing it. I can golf in it. I can run in it. It's titanium, so it's super freaking light. It's also metal, so it feels like a watch in a way that a plastic G-Shock... Point being, who cares about the watch, right? Point being, that's been a great part of my watch experience, and it's really kind of helped form, you know, that Victorinox, that... Uh, my, my Victorinox, uh, uh, chronograph, uh, automatic Valjoux. I fucking love that watch. Nobody likes that watch. I post that on Instagram and it gets 13 likes. Uh, and it's okay. I do not care. I do not care, which is not to say I'm immune to the caring cause I'm not.
Everett Um, but we're in a unique situation in that the engagement is sort of important for us.
Andrew Having pulled those things to myself and just really been very honest with myself about why I wanted this and allowing myself to have that opportunity to actually just enjoy a watch that I found and I was like, this is fantastic. That has made me appreciate watches in a different way. And similarly, disengaging from social media for periods of time whether I needed it or just wanted it or just wasn't feeling it, has done a similar thing, right? Instead of getting grumpy or working too hard, right? It's all gravy and being able to enjoy the missing out, right? Like, what are you talking about? Yeah, haven't heard of it. What do you mean you haven't heard of it? Yeah, haven't heard of it. I actually haven't read anything about watches in two weeks, you know? That is joyful. you know, allowing, allowing myself those moments or those watches or whatever it is, has become part of my, my approach.
Everett Well, we joke all the time when we're trying to plan an episode. I hate watches right now.
Andrew I hate them. I hate watches.
Everett I love the watches I have. I want to wear them. I enjoy them. I don't want to talk about them. I don't care about your awesome cricket watch. I don't, I don't care. I just, I want my watches. That's it. I don't want to be inundated with the new cool thing or funny memes about making fun of people who like watches.
Andrew And, and I think that it's okay. I think it's okay for us to admit that, right? I'm not feeling that today, which, which is nice. Um, and in fact, I don't feel it all that often, but occasionally I'm just like, God, I fucking hate watches right now. And so I think allowing myself to feel that and just sort of not worrying about it, right? At the end of the day, I love watches. I love doing this show. But point being, even if you don't have a show, even if you don't have any obligation, give yourself whatever you need in terms of space, right? Because this is supposed to be joyful.
Everett Yeah. And I think letting social media be a tool to guide and to drive your hunts when you're out for that next thing that you want is great. Totally. You know, let Instagram be the, be the guy defining something you like, and then let the forums talk you out of it.
Andrew And, and even if you, even if you like a watch, because even if you want to have a watch because you want to put pictures of it on Instagram, I'm cool with that too, man. Hell yeah. I've done that.
Everett I bought the Q Timex because of all the hype that surrounded it. And then when the price is dumped and they came back in stock, I bought one.
Andrew And you love that watch? I love that watch.
Everett Yeah. The hype was totally worth it. Well, no. No one should have paid $400 for that watch.
Unknown No one.
Andrew Well, I mean, whatever. I guess that's maybe the bigger point of this, right? Is that You don't have to overthink it. If you spent 400 bucks on a cute Timex, uh, good luck recouping it, I guess. Good luck. But also don't fucking stress about it. Who cares?
Everett If you spend $400, you might arguably love it more than I do. Cause I love it. Whatever. MSRP is 180 bucks.
Andrew So, so the second, the second, uh, we'll do this real quick. Uh, cause we can get through these and then we can move on to better things. The second article I pulled, this is an article, this is a newer article, so the Greenfield article I think was 2011. This is from 2017, James Summers, fantastic writer. It's called The Like Button Ruined the Internet, subtitle, How Engagement Made the Web a Less Engaging Place. We've talked about, we've talked about the struggles of being in an engagement driven business. I guess I'd call this a business, although it's not it's not a practically profitable business. But we've talked about that experience, right? Having to come to terms with where we are in the world and figuring out what is it that we want out of this? And how is it that we want to do this? We're not going to talk about that today. The point being our perspective is different than that from someone who's purely consumer, right? And I think you and I have had different experiences in this regard, just in terms of where our heads were at.
Everett Also really different than somebody who's affiliate linked up.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think for us that was the That was the moment of truth, right? That was the come to Jesus moment, right? The internet is just by its very nature fractured. Everything you receive is not part of a conglomerate. So say what you will about cable companies or media conglomerates or, or whatever. Historical journalism, historical media, say medium media, uh, is bundles, right? For the last, you know, a hundred plus years, media has been bundles, right? Whether that's cable or radio or comic books or, or whatever. right? Uh, the opportunity given to the individual today, you can self publish a novel and sell it on Amazon. You can create a podcast from your guest bedroom. You can, um, any number of ways express yourself and have instant global distribution. Yeah. Right. And when I say distribution, I don't mean Traditional distribution. I mean you are. Accessibility. Accessible to anyone. I mean people listen to our podcast in Jakarta. Which I don't know who's listening to this podcast in Jakarta. Hey Jakarta. You know we have unprecedented ability to from our guest room reach out to people. That has led to
Everett With absolutely no expertise or reason to be able to.
Andrew That's right. That has led to debundling, which has led to an individual incentivized engagement approach to everything. Everything. The like button ruined the internet. Everything is based on the like button. in a bundled media group like, say, Hodinkee. There is no one article that's going to make or break you. There is no week's programming that's going to break you. A bundled company like that is hitting every different genre. They've got video. They've got written. They've got podcast. They've got products that they sell, right? E-commerce. They've diversified so they can do really cool shit. I know we've got a lot of Hodinkee haters out there. I am not one of them. I think Hodinkee is a phenomenal, phenomenal company. I really like them. I love the work they do. Um, I don't care about the products they sell. They've got to make money to employ all the people who make the great shit that they make, but they don't have to worry about any one article. You know, they can spend money on an article and not worry that it's going to get likes, not worry that it's going to get engagement, not worry that a hundred thousand people are going to read it. It's the quality of the product.
Everett They can make it in a vacuum. Yeah.
Andrew Yes, that's right. And so, a company that has one writer and has low threshold for an article, a podcast, a video that's not going to get likes and doesn't have that same flexibility. So all of a sudden I need to have everything be likable, linkable, backlinkable, and affiliate marketable. And the quality of the product goes down as a result. And that is the world we live in.
Everett The integrity, not the quality, the integrity of the product, I think.
Andrew Six and a half dozen, but I think I hear your distinction. Yeah.
Everett Because you can have a great production value. You can have a terrific product that you're putting out there, but it's an ad.
Andrew Yeah. You know, one of the nice things about what we do is we have zero, I mean almost zero feedback about our product. And so we're able to create a product Feel good about it or not. Get it out there. Some of you are going to comment and you're going to communicate to us directly. That's fine. That's fun. We enjoy it. But we're not getting thumbs down. We're not getting thumbs up. There's no likes, right? There's no feedback loop. I mean, we get, you know, the listens we get, they change very little from week to week.
Everett Yeah, we have some really committed listeners or downloaders at least. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Andrew And so we don't have to when we do these podcasts, we don't ever, ever think about is someone going to click on this link? You know, there's zero click bait motivation for us because we don't see the clicks. And I'm not saying that we make a superior product because of that. I'm saying we're free from that. We're free from that. We don't have to make a Rolex video. We don't have to make an Omega video. We don't have to make a, is Omega better than Rolex video? Uh, is, is, is Omega the new Rolex? Uh, is, you know, whatever, right? We don't have to do it.
Everett And frankly, that's a liberating, I'm glad we don't have to, cause we couldn't buy them.
Andrew It's liberating. It's liberating. And it makes our lives so much cheaper and more fun.
Everett We get to have so many fun, cool watches and not tie up all of our Watch money in one watch.
Andrew All right. And before you, yes, you, I'm talking to you before you accuse us of navel gazing. Rather, this is our experience with this thing, right? I would urge everybody. Well, don't start a podcast. Uh, but I would urge everybody to figure out a place where to the extent you want to create, you can do so in a world free from likes free from who, you know, worrying about who or how many, make the thing you want to make, work hard on it and get it out there. Don't start a podcast.
Everett Just enjoy the process.
Andrew Enjoy it. Enjoy it. Yeah. Whether, whether that's the photographs you're taking, the watches you're taking photographs of, uh, the watches you're writing about, uh, Evan, Evan, I think does a really good job of this. He writes about the brands and the watches that he loves.
Everett And that nobody knows anything about. So even if he's lying, no one will call him on it. That's right.
Andrew That's right. It's, it's a really, it's a really sort of refreshing approach to the hobby and, and I love to see it.
Everett Yeah. It makes me want to get into vintage gold watches. Yeah. We had a message a couple of weeks ago from someone when we were talking about a tool watches. And he said he was listening to it while wearing, Oh shit. Was it a Walden? Like a vintage? It was a gold vintage 36 millimeter watch. Something like that. While he's working in his wood shop. It's like, hell yeah. Yes.
Andrew Yeah.
Everett That's wearing your watch.
Andrew Yeah. You know, I golfed with an orthopedic surgeon the other day. So first this dude, so this first, this dude is, I found out later 71 looked like he was 60. Geez. He was like kind of strapping barrel chested, like athletic legs. He's wearing shorts, you know, athletic looking. He hits the ball a fucking ton. I mean, he was like, you know, two 52 60 carry with his driver. Find out later is 71 and he's just like a funny, nice dude, but he's wearing this sub he's wearing this. black date sub. I'm like, man, that's really great. He's like, yeah, uh, yeah, I bought it at skis, you know, a few years ago I just walked in and I didn't know what I was looking for. And I was like, you can't, you can't do that today.
Everett Do you know how much money is on your wrist right now in the gray market?
Andrew But it was beat to shit. Beat to shit. You could just tell that he had bought it and loved it and worn it. That's his watch. That's his watch, man. That's his watch. And I thought it was great. He was bitching about the $750 service quote. And I was like, man, you get that thing serviced, you could sell it for 15 grand tomorrow.
Unknown He's like, what?
Everett Yeah. Paid 30 bucks for it.
Andrew I think he said he bought it for, he said he went in, they quoted him 7,500, gave him 7,100 and waived all the interest for two years. Cause he did like a, you know, what are these loans? Waved all the interest for two years. He kept it for two years. Paid off the loan. So got this watch for, yeah. Yeah. Grand Seiko money.
Everett Yeah.
Andrew Yeah. Andrew, I feel like I took over your topic a little bit and I'm sorry about that. Anything you want to add on the topic or anything you want to explore?
Everett I just want to say, enjoy the Jomo. Don't let the darling of Instagram be your grail, unless it is independent of it being the darling of Instagram. Everyone who went out and bought a Blue Bay 58, because everyone was talking about the Blue Bay 58, sorry for you, unless you wanted the Blue Bay 58, which I imagine most people didn't. Because it's just blue.
Andrew They did. It's a great watch.
Everett It's a great watch. It is. It is. But the hype drove a huge number of sales that weren't because people were in love with that watch. Find the ones you want. Don't let what everyone else likes and what gets likes influence you. And you're buying. Don't feel bad because some asshole has nine different varieties of subs. That doesn't mean you need a sub. It doesn't mean you need X, Y, or Z. Find what you want and what you're comfortable paying for and enjoy the shit out of it. And if you want to post pictures of it, do it. Who cares about the like button?
Andrew You like it. And if you care about the life button, like button. Start a podcast. Yes, exactly. And frankly, that's OK, too, right? Just don't stress about it. If you're feeling stressed. If you're if you're feeling stressed, turn off your phone. Meditate. Watch a Netflix show. With your baby, your sweetie, In your shoulder and... Or hit Tinder and start swiping. Or that, that's exactly right. Go out and get COVID like Andrew. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you, right? Big picture is no, the like button hasn't ruined anything. No technology isn't ruining anything. Social media isn't ruining anything.
Everett Well, we... Social media is ruining one thing and I do need to add it. I tiraded a little bit about it before. It's that our inundation by watches that look similar creates this world where we're willing to say this, this Hellcat, I'll be better if it were 300 bucks. Because we see so many watches at that price point that look similar.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett We see so many watches at the $200 price point that look like the C63, that look like the Atlas. They're not those things.
Unknown Yeah.
Everett I actually, it's disrespectful, I think to the designers, to the people who are putting everything into this product to bring it to market. And if it's not for you, it's not for you. That's an okay thing. But it being too much money, is a thing, right? That's an acceptable reason to not buy a thing. It's not an acceptable reason to poo poo a thing.
Andrew Yeah. Well, you know me, you know, I've gotten in multiple, uh, uh, keyboard battles regarding this isn't worth that or, or whatever. I'm always on the side of it almost certainly is, right? It almost certainly is worth whatever they're asking for it for any number of reasons. Um, I, I am, almost never going to take the side of they're overcharging, they're overpriced. I'm just not going to do it. Right. And so I agree with you. I also disagree to the extent that anything's ruined. Right. I think that the ideas are the same there. All you have to do is stop. Stop caring. Stop listening. Stop reading. Whatever it is. You don't have to engage with it. You do not have to email Europe because they they want something at two o'clock in the morning. I don't start work until eight. You're going to get your response at eight.
Everett Who emails Europe? Well, like, like the continent?
Andrew Yeah.
Everett Well, the Europe distro list.
Andrew My wife works almost exclusively in Europe and Asia. So, yeah.
Everett But she is.
Andrew So I was talking directly to her. Yeah.
Everett Yeah. Kim. Hey, it's eight p.m. Stop working. That's right. The Sam's working. I'm sure. So yeah.
Andrew Uh, that's it. Yeah. Problem solved. We've done it. Andrew. Other things. What do you got?
Everett I wish I could do that. What? The noise.
Andrew Give me a second. I want the cucumber.
Everett What do you think of the pineapple?
Andrew I like it. I thought I would like it more than I did.
Everett I thought I would like it less. So maybe it just exceeded my expectations and it made me very happy. I love pineapple.
Andrew I do too. This tastes like a fresh pineapple.
Everett This made me want Hawaiian pizza.
Andrew I love Hawaiian pizza. Only idiots, dumb, stupid idiots don't like Hawaiian pizza.
Everett It's not usually my jam, but with this, it would be my jam. This is the spicy pineapple. I don't get any spice. There's no spice, but whatever. It's five times filter or six times filtered. So maybe that's where the spice went.
Andrew She put some pepper spray and I just do a dot.
Everett God, that's part of my issue. Um, so my other thing this week, wow. Do you hear the squeak?
Andrew Yeah, I heard it.
Everett Yeah. It's getting bad.
Andrew You're going to have to spit this out. Get it moving.
Everett My other thing this week is, Actually, the multi-tool that I use to adjust my pins and collars, it's a multi-tool I've had for 10 years, 11 years. And it's still going strong. It is the SOG Sog Power Assist. And it is $75. from the SOG website, 75 bucks on Amazon. It's got a, um, reference number somewhere, but if you just look at power assist, it's the only one I have the black and is the, uh, it's a top two multi-tool I've ever used. It's got some downsides, right? It's not the Gerber slide open. It's a, uh, loose, not loose, but a, um, fast enough ratcheting mechanism that you can one hand open. It's got all your tool catalog on one side in one handle. And it's, it's the style of multi-tool, you know, right? Closes up into a little rectangle opens up. You've got pliers on the other end. It's got a couple of gears that really, really increase your grip strength. You can cut through absolutely anything with these cutters. Um, Your whole suite of tools is on one side, and then your knife and saw are spring-assisted on the other side. And they're outboard. So, from a closed position, you can access both of your cutting tools. Easy to stow them. They lock in place, so you don't have any accidental pocket openings. And it is rugged. I don't know what kind of steel they use. Probably 316L. So it's 4.6 inches closed. So it's a little bit, it's a little big, but the grip that you can get on that handle makes it worth it. A little heavy, 9.6 ounces, but it's a multi-tool. So if you're carrying a multi-tool, you're the type of person who doesn't really care if there's a multi-tool on your belt. 16 tools, 420 steel. Whatever that means. All the tools lock. It's a terrific.
Andrew I think 420 is a little softer.
Everett Is it? Yeah. I have no nixding gouges in it. The only thing, the cover for the tools is just like a little friction held pin and divot. That's gone. That's been gone for five years.
Andrew You know, is that, so I actually think, well, let me ask you a question. What's your other, you said top two multi-tools, what's your other favorite?
Everett So the other favorite is the Army Issue Gerber. Yeah, I knew you were gonna say that. It's limited on tools. What I like about it is it's really slim. It's longer, it's slimmer. I really, the most use I get out of a multi-tool is out of the pliers.
Andrew I hate the Gerber. I don't mind the SOG. I've used the SOG before. I actually like the way the SOG works. I'm a Leatherman dude.
Everett I have a Leatherman that I really, really like also.
Andrew Which one? Is it the Wave?
Everett No, I don't know the brand. It was also an Army acquisition.
Andrew The Leatherman Wave, I think, is my very favorite multi-tool of all time. But I do, your SOG is, I think it's a great tool. I do not like the Gerber.
Everett I do. And I have two. I have the needle point and the flat point. The needle points better because needle nose pliers are just more versatile. Yeah. Um, and I use them both a lot.
Andrew It's very combat arms of you, uh, to like the Gerber.
Everett I mean, a multi-tool will solve 80% of your problems in life.
Andrew I just feel like combat arms guys like the Gerber and everybody else likes other things.
Everett Okay. I like the SOG more.
Andrew It's great.
Everett But I mean, the whole time I was in the army, I carried both.
Andrew I want to get one of the new Leatherman, the free P4s.
Everett I need to, I'll find the Leatherman that I have. I'll actually, I'll find it. I'll go get it out of my room when we're done here. But yeah, Everett, do you have another thing?
Andrew I do. Do me. I do. Uh, I started a new show on HBO. It's novel. Are you starring in it? I am starring in a new show on HBO. No, I'm not in it. It's a shame. Unlike our good friend, Brett, who is in a show on HBO or was, he died a horrible death.
Everett Not Brett, but his character.
Andrew Yeah, that's right. That's right. Um, the show is called The Nevers and I would say it's a little, uh, it's a little, uh, Downton Abbey feeling. Okay. The music is the same. It's sort of period peace, England. And then it's just not. It's people who have powers and who are being hunted because of their powers. And they're slowly revealing what's happening. I don't want to say too much because every time I think about a plot point or a feature, It makes me feel like I'm going to give a spoiler. With that said, start to give some things away. Yeah. Great characters. The main character is dead now. Complex. Uh, you, you, you learn, uh, you, you, you learn about her. The, the rollout of her powers is fantastic. Have you seen this? The nevers? No. So I think they're through a C episode six or five right now. It's going to be 12. Oh wow. It's HBO, so they're, you know, they're slow rolling it. I'm sure it's gonna get picked up. It's fantastic, man. It is really, really, really good. Doesn't feel soapy.
Everett Which is hard. A lot of period dramas get that way.
Andrew There's gonna be some soap to it, but it doesn't feel true blood soapy, right?
Everett True blood was bad, but I watched every episode. Oh yeah, watched it all.
Andrew It doesn't feel like that, right? I've watched a few shows recently where I was like, eh, this is the kind of soapy that is a turnoff for me. This doesn't feel that way. The Nevers, HBO, you can watch it now. Fantastic.
Everett You said five seasons are available right now?
Andrew No, one season, five episodes.
Everett Oh, well, hold off until there's five seasons available. Check it out. The Nevers on HBO. And if you click the link in our show notes to get there, you will get there, and we will make exactly no money.
Andrew We'll get royalties of 0% forever and ever.
Everett Just the royalty of knowing that we brought you some joy.
Andrew Hey, you guys, thanks for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the WatchClicker podcast. Check us out. WatchClicker.com. That's the website. That's where Will posts all his fantastic reviews. Mike, Evan, Henry. All the people that contribute to the website, stuff up there, new stuff regularly. Check it out. Oh, and every episode of this podcast. Oh, check us out on Instagram at watch clicker at 40 and 20. If you want to support the show, you can do so on patreon.com slash 40 and 20. We've had some new patrons recently. Ooh. Thank you guys so much. We really appreciate it. And it does, it does actually keep the lights on the mixing board on.
Everett Yeah. Not our house.
Andrew And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Everett Bye bye.