Episode 128 - RIP Dress Watch

Published on Wed, 07 Apr 2021 23:37:56 -0700

Synopsis

The podcast hosts discuss the decline of the dress watch in modern times. They attribute this trend to factors such as the rise of digital watches in the 1980s, the relaxation of workplace dress codes, and the increasing preference for utility and comfort over formality in clothing and accessories. They acknowledge that while luxury dress watches still exist, affordable dress watches have become scarce in the current market. The hosts also explore the definition of a dress watch and share their personal preferences for simple, elegant designs.

Transcript

Speaker
Everett Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is 40 in 20 The Watch Clicker podcast with your host, Andrew. I'm a good friend, Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Andrew Everett, how are you? Just cold chilling.
Everett Yeah.
Andrew About to drink a beer.
Everett In jammies. That's I think maybe the best part of studios across the street from house. In PJs. Just pure jammies. I'm in slippers. You wore shoes, but because you had to cross the street. Walk across the street, yeah, indeed. I would wear. I have worn slippers to your house on several occasions.
Andrew And I wore shoes and basically nothing else because, you know, bedtime clothes.
Everett Well, and it's warm outside. And dark. It's good. I had a good day. I brought your router to my house, or not your router, but your planer to my house today. Did quite, I made six gallons of sawdust. I had to empty my shop vac today.
Andrew Nice. Was your shop vac any more effective at pulling the chips off the planer than mine was?
Everett I don't know. I didn't see what yours did, but there was still quite a pile in the front.
Andrew Yeah, mine pulled almost none.
Everett I didn't try it without But I don't know. I haven't tried it without yet, but did that, did a dry run of a butcher block tabletop that'll turn into a stool. It's about what I want. There's a couple of tweaks I'm going to make, but yeah, I just made a bunch of sawdust today.
Andrew And to be clear, the Meadows Roberts woodshop is still in its infancy, but it is progressing.
Everett It's very much in its infancy. There are still no work benches.
Andrew No work benches.
Everett All the tools are worked either off of soft horses and plywood or the floor.
Andrew Right. Several thousand dollars in saws at this point. On the floor. On the floor.
Everett Yeah. But coming right along. Yeah. Coming right along. The router got put through its paces today.
Andrew Yeah. You know, we went and bought some saws on Saturday. I bought a table saw. We bought a planer. We bought a circular saw. Just, you know, new homeowner, I need some saws. And, uh, I got back to the house and, you know, it's one of these table saws with a, a stand, you know, which is a big pain, rolly carts to put together.
Everett Isn't it?
Andrew Yeah. So it was, it took every bit of an hour to put it together. That's how long mine took. Uh, it wasn't particularly complicated. Um, the instructions were actually pretty good, but, um, got it built and I was like about to plug it in. And I was like, you know what? I haven't operated a table saw since high school. I should probably take a minute and watch some YouTube videos on table saw.
Everett Plug it in and start ripping it.
Andrew I did not. I did go to the YouTubes and I watched some table saw videos. You know, just things like, okay, this is what you need to be thinking about. This is why, you know, people get, this is why and how people get injured. And it was good. It was a good sort of reminder that. I'm about to plug in this machine that can and will, you know, maim or, or even perhaps kill you.
Everett Uh, my, my table saw safety philosophy is pretend you don't have thumbs and you won't lose them.
Andrew Yeah. Just keep them out of the way. Yeah. Well, uh, in any event, I did, I did finally get it turned on and, and made some shit this weekend and you know, nothing well, but I'm sort of learning the tools and, uh, I'm excited for it. Yeah. It's it's fun. It was fun using that planer that that planer is like, oh man, holy cow. This is cool. I have a jointer coming tomorrow.
Everett And I think that's going to be the game changer. I think between those three tools, there's basically nothing because then you're flat and square.
Andrew Yeah. You know, I had I did some shelf installation of my built ins and that required one by one by two support posts and they were pretty rough. The one buys I bought were pretty rough and I grabbed my orbital sander and I laid these things out on a piece of plywood and I started to sand them and I was like, man, this is going to take an hour just to get these things to finish. Great. And then I looked down and I had the planer sitting there. I was like, yep, yep. And it took, I don't know, maybe two and a half minutes. Yeah. I think four minutes for, for all six of these one by twos, you know, you just run them through and they're like 70 linear feet of lumber. And I wasn't running them through one at a time either. I was putting them in like three at a time. And then when I did the edges, I just put them all together.
Everett Mm hmm.
Andrew I didn't even didn't clamp them or anything. I just set them together and ran them through. Turn them over and did it again. It's like, fuck me and my life has changed.
Everett It's a it's a game changer in the in the woodshop. I got a drill press today. Did you use it? No, I just, I left it in the box. I just went, I went and got it and was going to use it and then kind of got encumbered by everything else.
Andrew So what percentage of the people listening to us right now do you think are like, how fucking long are these assholes going to talk about wood to woodworking?
Everett I think probably less than we would think. It's a pure hobbyist. Yeah. We're hobbyists. It's a it's a gear doughy hobbyist.
Andrew I like how we come at this at Approximately the same level as we came to watch us to both quarter both kind of beginners You've got more woodworking experience than me.
Everett You've made shit In fact, you made shit so cool that when you sold your house people are like I want to have that cool thing that you made Yeah, my house was my dining room table bench and built-in storage bench were a part of my sales contract
Andrew And that's awesome, right? But I think relatively we're both kind of noobs, right? I mean, you've got experience making like construction lumber, farmhouse furniture, and I've got experience making nothing. Poops. You make poops. Poops. I make poops. Sometimes more than one a day. I'm an extremely effective poop maker.
Everett Good for you.
Andrew Well, short of starting a new podcast about woodworking, we should probably, at some point, at some point, not necessarily now, but at some point, talk about watches.
Everett Well, we're actually going to transition. This is going to be our first episode of 4x2, which is a play on 2x4. And welcome to the Watch Clicker Corp podcast, 4x2, hobbyist woodworking. hosted by Everett and his good friend Andrew.
Andrew That's good. The podcast where we talk about wood.
Everett That's it. That's it. Not even what to do with it, just wood. So, we can dive into watches today. Because we're talking about watches. Can I start with an aside that is not square on topic, but is watch related?
Andrew This is not an aside. This is solid on topic. Give it to me, man.
Everett Put it in me. As you all are aware, if you follow the Instagram, and if you don't, and you've been waiting patiently for a week for the impulse purchase announcement... Wait, in that Venn diagram, how many people do you think there are that know our podcast, listen to our podcast, and don't follow us on Instagram?
Andrew Like I know some folks... 10% maybe. And it's people who don't have Instagram. I bet it's less than that. And I know some folks have gotten rid of Instagram for whatever reason, you know, I'm just off of social media or whatever, but I bet it's even less than 10%.
Everett I think you're probably right, but I think it's entirely people who don't have social media. I think anyone who listens to this podcast follows us.
Andrew Yeah, fair enough.
Everett The entire watch clicker family.
Andrew I've interrupted multiple times.
Everett A Seiko Alpinist came in the mail last week, and I've worn it, not exclusively because I wore my work watch, but I've worn the Alpinist only. Alpinist? Alpianist? Pianist. Yeah. Since I got it. I put it on and I was kind of like, I like it. I'm good with it. Everything's kind of what I expected. The more I've worn it, the more I like it. This is climbing the ladder of favorite watches that I own and have ever worn. And I'm getting on a Mankey Designs PJ strap right now. Shout out to Nick. Worth the wait.
Andrew Yeah. You know, it's just super Japanese. Luxurious. It's not thin, which I like. It's a little thick. It's pleasantly plump, I would say. It's just a fantastic designed watch.
Everett The curve of the lugs, though, sucks it right down against your wrist, even on the bracelet. Even on your hot dog wrist. Yeah, even on my hot dog wrist. The problem, my complaint about this watch is the bracelet. It's just a run-of-the-mill, you-get-it-on-every-watch Seiko bracelet.
Andrew Yeah, it's their lower mid-tier bracelet.
Everett But that speaks to the value of the bracelet you get when you buy it on a SARB or on your SSB. They're using the same bracelet on your $100 to $400 watch as they are on a $600 to $700 watch.
Andrew Yeah, it's a scissor clasp. I mean, it's nicer than their Seiko 5 stuff. Yeah, it's going to be a step up from that. It's certainly the worst part of that watch.
Everett Yeah. The Cyclops is really cool. Wasn't sure how I was going to feel about it in person. It's a very cool and effective. Yeah.
Andrew Yeah. I think that's the nice thing about a Cyclops when you realize, oh, this is actually, there's value here.
Everett It's not just a thing. Um, but yeah, I've, I've worn this watch a bucket load. I've worn it running tools, doing everything. I wore it in the shower today cause it was very dirty, dusty rather.
Andrew And it's got 200 meters of water resistance. So shower away.
Everett Yeah. Shower away, shower away. Uh, my first prospects, but I dig it. I think if you're, if anyone's looking for like kind of on the fence about this watch, you've got the money set aside for it. You're not really sure this is a watch worth taking the risk on, I think.
Andrew And now you got the black dialed one, which I think, which I think is for me, that would be, that would be the one I would pick out. Although I'm sort of, I've got a soft spot for the classic green, the OG 017 green. In fact, the gilted green.
Everett Yeah. No, I got the, I didn't get the new release. I did get the one with the four o'clock crown with the internal rotating bezel. Classic Alpinist. Yeah. I was thinking the gray one that was like a European only, not limited edition, limited edition release, but it's quite a bit more expensive. Yeah. Yeah. And I like buying watches new.
Andrew Yeah. No, I think you nailed it. It's, it's a fantastic watch. You know, that's an interesting thing you just said. You like buying watches new. Cause I like buying watches new too. Um, but when we talked to clay a few weeks back, he said, you know, I basically buy everything used. I think he's buying it knowing he's going to get rid of it. And we tend to buy watches knowing or at least suspecting we want to keep them.
Everett Yeah. This is when I first got it, I was like, I don't know if this isn't going anywhere.
Andrew You've said that, that it might be a catch and release.
Everett No, this isn't going anywhere.
Andrew Great. It's beautiful. I really like it. I do too.
Everett I really like it. So for those of you on the fence, If you don't know what I'm talking about, you crazy. And if, if you're in the market for a, uh, a little bit more utilitarian tool, leaning sport watch, that's a good choice.
Andrew You know, and, and, and, you know, that compared to like, say a, a Nighthawk, right. Cause I think they kind of have similar functions.
Everett I mean, I can use this internal Rodian bezel. I do not know how a slide rule works.
Andrew They don't practice. I mean, they don't have the same, they don't have the same complications at all. Right. But they, they kind of fit that like refined sport watch. That's right. That refined tool watch vibe. Uh, they're nothing alike. Um, but as between those two, I think a Nighthawk is maybe a little bit of a throwaway watch and it's not just price either. Um, a little bit of a throwaway watch. The Alpinist is not, right? The Alpinist is inside baseball. There's an old insurance salesman that subleases from me and he wears a Nighthawk. It's not one of the standard fair Nighthawks. It's like one of the one-off Nighthawks, but he's just a dude that wound up in a Macy's one day and was like, I'll get that one. And that's not to take anything away from the watch.
Everett Because I love the Nighthawk and I still don't understand how I haven't bought one
Andrew Yeah. I mean, given opportunities recently to buy one, I've still decided not to. So I think I might just not ever buy a Nighthawk. Just protest. Unless I see one for like a hundred bucks someday. Like a pawn shop. Yeah, fuck, I get it.
Everett They were like 180 bucks the other day on Joma Shop. Maybe 200 bucks.
Andrew That's how I ended up with my Boliva Ori and Mako was I started a pawn shop for 35 bucks. Your Bulova Orient Mako? Yeah, I've got a Bulova, I think it's an ocean star, that is an Orient Mako, but I saw it at a pawn shop for, it's quartz, I saw it at a pawn shop for 35 bucks and I was like, meh.
Everett Yeah, might as well.
Andrew I never wear it, you know, but it's made by, you know, I think it's, I think it actually is an Orient manufacturer. I don't know how that, how that happened, but curious.
Everett That'd be an interesting story to dig into.
Andrew Yeah. But we're not talking about tool watches today.
Everett No. In fact, the opposite.
Andrew We are not talking about complicated watches, although maybe. Rather, we're talking about. Mysterious. The death. Yes. Thesis being the dress watch is dead. We're talking about the death of the dress watch.
Everett Rest in peace dress watch.
Andrew Which is not to say. our conclusion is going to be that the dress watch is dead. But starting with the thesis that the dress watch is dead. Tell me about dress watches, Andrew.
Everett So here's my thinking on a dress watch. I think it's an important piece of a watch collection is a watch that you can wear with a suit, a watch that you can wear with a tuxedo. I want mine to be small and I don't mean like 30 millimeters small. I want like 34 to 38 small. I don't want a date. I hate date on a dress watch. I don't want loom because it doesn't need it. I don't want numerals. I either want like just a flat face, nothing, maybe Roman numerals, maybe indices, but I want numbers. I don't want number markers. Two, maybe three hands, small seconds, can be acceptable, but depends on how it's executed. I'm okay with flat. I'm okay with domed crystal and I want it on leather and I want a big ass bezel. I want a big ass crown. I want something as simple as it gets. One of the things that comes to mind, like just right out of the gate is the HK 63 or any of the 1963 series. That comes to your mind right away? Even though it's a chronograph, it's got all these other things that are just super simple. All of the extra complications are executed in such a way that they don't become the watch. That watch is a dress watch that is also a chronograph, even though it's a pilot's watch.
Andrew Yeah, it's a military pilot watch.
Everett It's a bizarro, nothing makes sense about it watch. Then I go to the Bambino, and the Bambino is a good example of a dress watch. It's just a touch too big. It's got a date window, but worse things could happen. The dimensions on it are a little off because it's got a weird lug size.
Andrew It's 41 millimeters on the Bambino?
Everett Yeah, 41 and 21 lug width.
Andrew Is it that big or is it 39? I can never remember. It's 41. Okay.
Everett It's a touch big. Dome Sapphire makes it seem even bigger. But I want something as absolutely simple as it gets. Something you can do a quick glance, get a good read on it, and if you can't, it doesn't matter because there's an accessory. Because you're at a dress function. You don't need to worry about the time, but you should be wearing a watch on leather, not a bracelet.
Andrew Yeah. So I think my standards are, are not different than yours, but maybe a little bit nuanced. Uh, simple, obviously not sporty. Right. So no loom, like you said, um, no, you know, no extra sort of utility tool adornment to the case. I agree with your size qualifications. I think, you know, although certainly dress watches come in 41 millimeters and even bigger, I personally want something probably 38 or smaller, just knowing how I wear watches and what that's going to look like for me. Thin. Thin, right? You know, I'm not going to call out dimensions, You know, overall, a low profile.
Everett It's got to fit under your shirt sleeve if you're not wearing cufflinks.
Andrew And then, and then Black Croc, right? Black Croc, maybe Brown Croc. Yeah, a crocodile strap on a dress watch. If it's truly a dress watch, a crocodile strap. You've got a dress watch.
Everett What about Ray?
Andrew I mean,
Everett no yeah ostrich perhaps actually yeah maybe you might be able to get away with us but we're talking about an exotic leather yeah and without being ostentatious that's exotic kind of it's hard to say like conservatively exotic that's a weird turn of phrase but i'm going to say conservatively exotic traditionally exotic maybe yeah sure
Andrew Yeah, but then you start to get too exotic and it's like, all right, that's no longer, you know, now you've got a red ruffle on your shirt collar or something. You have a peacock feather. And it becomes gaudy and no longer classy. So yeah, you know, I think within that, and it's sort of like pornography, right? It's like, I know it when I see it. Yeah. You know? It's not it's not gonna There's going to be exceptions to every rule and so with that in mind We're starting tonight with this thesis as I've called it that really For all intents and purposes the dress watch is dead that today currently as we sit here There's no market for regular folk I'll just say, the affordable watch market, there's no real dress watch market segment within there.
Everett And there's also no inventory for it. Like, not only does the demand not exist, there is also not a supply for it. Which, it's weird.
Andrew So, assuming the thesis is true. It is. For the moment, assuming the thesis is accurate, even though I'm going to suggest, and I have already suggested, that it's maybe not accurate. Andrew might disagree. We'll see what happens. We've got time. But assuming that it's true, what do you think is the evolution of the death, the quote-unquote death of the dress watch?
Everett I think the dress watch died with the explosion of digital watches. When they became accessible to everyone, and they were the craze of the watch market, everybody was wearing digital watches. We were kind of on the downturn of the courts crisis, but people were in love with digital watches. And you see digital watches in steel cases, you see them in gold cases, you see these precious metals, you see steel, you see All the normal watch things filling digital watches. People are comfortable with digital. And then resin kind of takes the, takes the lead in the digital watch world. And that's what people start wearing. You know, they might have their, their whatever watch, maybe, maybe they have a steel watch they're wearing to work, but they wear their resin cased digital watch all the other times. such that it slowly becomes that people aren't buying two-hand watch. They're not buying three-hand precious metal watches. They're not buying dress watches for dress occasions. They're not buying dress watches to be dressed. Like, you know, you're, you think of the eighties when people are wearing these, like, and even in early nineties with bankers wearing a mis-sized bracelet on a giant steel watch, because that's a dress watch. Like this is my steel watch, it's my dress watch. It's got a big jangly ass bracelet that hasn't been sized, it doesn't fit. Because when they get home they put on their G-Shock or whatever. I think that's it. I think we see the death of the dress watch within the explosion of accessibility to digital watches because that became the kind of par that we judged watches off of. It was no longer like the, you know, the, the G 10, the, the take your pick of normal Warren watches in the seventies and before nothing was made of steel anymore. So steel became like, Oh, it's a metal watch. It's dressy. I remember a kid seeing like a watch on a bracelet and be like, Oh, that's a dress watch. I don't want something that dressy. It's a steel fucking bracelet sport watch. But that's where my mind went with no, knowledge of watches and no, no, you know, no watches, no, no knowledge of fashion or style, but.
Andrew So that's interesting that you say that cause you're tying it to a specific event in, in the watch industry. Uh, and, and I would argue that although the timing on that is convenient for your argument, it's, it's also, in terms of timing tied to another phenomenon, which is sort of the death of, of off a business where in the office, the death of the necktie, um, you know, the deaths of death of dress shoes, uh, follows a similar trajectory. You know, if you want to buy, so we live in Eugene, Oregon, Eugene, Oregon's, uh, you know, quarter of a million,
Everett That's people. OK, I accept a quarter million.
Andrew And and so it's a small city. You know, when you take Eugene Springfield, which is our sister city and kind of squeeze them together, it's a small city. So we've got shopping malls. We've got a two distinct but decent downtown areas. We've got retail. You can not. I don't believe. You cannot buy in Eugene, Oregon today, or it's tonight, but tomorrow, you could not buy a pair of Goodyear welted dress shoes. I do not believe that there is any retail establishments in Eugene that you could go to and buy a Goodyear welted dress shoe. Now, 50 years ago, you could probably at seven or eight different places buy a dress shoe.
Everett And go to three different dudes to resole and repair those shoes.
Andrew That's right. That's exactly right. I do not believe today you can retail by a dress shoe. And that is not, uh, you know, say what you will about, you know, American fast food retail attitudes. I think that something else has happened, which is that our society has become utilitarian, right? You can go buy a dress Merrill or something, whatever, you know, in fact, I'm sure I'm saying that a little bit tongue in cheek, but, but should people wear red wings as dress boots? That's right. That's right. There's a thing that happened in the eighties where everything started to relax. Nobody wears ties. And Eugene, I am a partner at a law firm, a business law firm. And today we had one guy in a dress shirt with a tie and a jacket, untucked with jeans. And the only reason he was dressed that way is because he was in hearings over Zoom.
Everett We had- So he had to be party on top or business on top, party on the bottom. That's right.
Andrew We had our senior partner wearing, I don't know, some sort of Hoka trainer cargo, like technical cargo pants and a polo shirt. Was it tucked in? Uh, it was untucked. We had our managing partner, me, I guess, uh, wearing jeans and an untucked button down. We had our associate, the only guy who has to worry about getting fired. He was wearing a t-shirt and it's okay. Right. And we had, you know, we don't see clients these days, but we could see clients. And probably if we saw a client, you'd be wearing just a little bit nicer than that. You'd put on khakis instead of jeans, right? Uh, you know, we don't dress up anymore. And so instead of Goodyear welted Allen Edmonds or whatever, you know, or floor chimes or, or whatever people wore in the sixties and seventies, instead of that you wear, you know, Merrill, driving loafers or whatever, uh, you know, because they're practical, right? You, you don't wear a suit, you wear chinos, you, you know, everything is practical. Everything is comfortable. Everything is practical. Everything is utilitarian. You want to be able to go on a hike, you know, walk at lunch or whatever. Right. And I think that that just as much as the, the courts boom, I think that that attitude is what's driving folks away from the traditional dress watch.
Everett It's funny you say you might want to be able to go on a hike at lunch. I don't know if I saw it or read it or heard it, but this phrase rings in my mind of people on the West Coast always dress as if a hike might break out.
Andrew It's true though. Yeah.
Everett It's a funny joke, but it's true. Yeah, and I think it's interesting that those two things coincide in time.
Andrew And it should be mentioned that there's regional differences. You just referred to it implicitly, right? Saying everybody on the West Coast dresses this way. And certainly there are places on the East Coast where there's a much higher degree of formality. You know, there's still this thing where people say, you know, the ABA guidance to law students is, if you're applying for your job, you need to be wearing a suit and tie. And I think that that's probably true if you're interviewing at a law firm, suit and tie.
Everett If you're interviewing anywhere, you should be wearing a suit and a tie.
Andrew Eh, maybe not. But also, you know, there's places in New York where lawyers go to work every day in a suit and tie. I don't think that there is more than one or two firms in all of Oregon where people wear a suit and tie to work every day. You know, even the, even the big ones, even the big national firms, by and large, dress codes are relaxed. If you're not in court, you're probably not wearing a tie. And that's, that's a West Coast phenomenon is my point.
Everett But it's still interesting. Those two significant shifts are occurring simultaneously. And it's, and it's significant, right? We went from a world where ever where you're wearing as normal daily wear wool pants and welted boots, like welted leather boots, a button up shirt and a tie and a dress watch to a world where you can wear Solomon running shoes and technical pants and a t-shirt and a G-Shock to the same office.
Andrew Yeah. So it becomes the chicken or the egg question, right? Did the overall relaxed attitude about the formality of everyday dress drive the court's crisis and perhaps the decline of dress watches? Or did the court's crisis drive the decline of workwear in the United States? Serious question.
Everett Yeah. Or, I mean, it's fair to assume that they just happened in parallel.
Andrew Yeah. Right. Uh, yeah. Uh, obviously being a little facetious there, but I do think that those two things are happening side by side. Right. And so when we talk about the death of the dreth, when we got double ooze out of that one, when we talk about the death of the dreth watch, we have to insert some caveats, right? Yes. Because it's not just dress watches that died in the 80s.
Everett Disco died in the 80s, I mean, come on.
Andrew Mechanical watches died in the 80s. To some degree, analog watches died in the 80s, to a certain degree, right? The idea of a watch completely changed. And now, as we sit here today, No one needs a watch. In fact, there will be times when me, a watch dude, is wearing a watch, and I've even had said it that day, and I'll still look at my phone to glean the time, right? We are no longer dependent on these things. And so in and of themselves, watches are anachronistic, which we've said on the show a billion times, countless times. And so it's not necessarily that the dress watch has died it's that it's become more anachronistic it's become more uh esoteric perhaps and so dress watches being a segment a small segment you know of that already esoteric thing are just getting squeezed and here's where the caveat comes in because i do not think dress watches are dead at all in the luxury segment.
Everett No.
Andrew I'd say starting at about $15,000 up to, you know, $60,000, the coolest watches being made, some of the coolest watches being made are dress watches, right?
Everett Mm-hmm.
Andrew Langa obviously is... Yoga, yeah. You know, driving Dress watches, a fantastic, beautiful Piaget, right? These companies that are making luxury items are selling the shit out of dress watches.
Everett But that perfectly tracks. Dress watches are an appropriate segment in the luxury category because dress is luxury. We were talking to Mike and Will about this earlier. Um, And we made fun of Mike because he owns a tuxedo.
Andrew Mike Razack owns a tuxedo.
Everett I was going to make fun of him because it's a notch lapel, which I think is weird. I think if you're going to buy a tuxedo, you should either go peak or shawl. You know, whatever. Buy a black suit if you want a notch lapel. Fuck. But I wanted to remain focused on the topic. That's a luxury purchase. Even if you buy an inexpensive Men's Warehouse, you're going to be able to get into a decent tuxedo that you can wear a couple times for probably $500. You go to them on a good weekend, you get to buy one, get one free, and you get two tuxedos for $500. But I think you could probably get one for less. You can probably get into one for $100, but you shouldn't wear that. You're going to break out in hives and maybe a rash that never heals. But I think about $500 is probably Probably a safe bet. That's not the same for a good, for an attractive, true to form dress watch. And I think within the segment of the watch world that we exist in, the dress watch doesn't, doesn't. It isn't. It's gone. Bye.
Andrew It's done. Yeah. Well, so that's an interesting question. Do I think some people think dress watches should be? Perhaps need to be precious metal. What do you say to that?
Everett I don't think it needs to be precious metal because I think precious metals are Timeless in their style, but they're not always in style If that makes any sense, mm-hmm, you you will never look wrong in a gold 36 millimeter Dress watch. Yeah But it also isn't always going to be what fits the rest of your style. If you're wearing, say, a vintage, and Evan's probably a better person to be an example for this, but for me, if I'm wearing a gold 36 millimeter dress watch, that's kind of the cornerstone of what I'm wearing. I can't wear anything else to beat that. That's going to be the biggest statement I'm wearing, for me, in my mind. So maybe it's just a mental thing that I can't get over, but I don't think it needs to be a precious metal. I think it's all about style and design and being unassuming, elegant and invisible all at once.
Andrew Well, and really, I mean, how different does a steel dress watch look from a white gold dress watch? And could you tell from without biting it? Right. That's right. I mean, practically speaking, with modern finishing, even anachronistic finishing, you can't really tell the difference. So at some point, unless you're insisting that your dress watch be yellow gold, at some point it's just the idea of the thing. And I'm not arguing that that's a bad motivation, You're speaking super pragmatically, right? And I think that that's a totally reasonable point.
Everett Also, the value of precious metals is through the roof. Skyrocketed. Yeah, which is maybe part of the reason that normals can't afford precious metal watches, unless you go super vintage and really hunt for it. And then you're just buying the watch itself for scrap and hoping you can get the movement to work again. Right.
Andrew So double the price. Yeah, that's right. We talked about gold watches a few weeks ago. Uh, I sort of thought, you know, it's time I need to buy a gold watch. And then I quickly just abandoned it because I was like, I'm just not finding what I want. Um, I'm not finding a thing that's calling out to me. You know, it's, I'm going to spend more than I want to.
Everett To get something I'm not particularly excited about.
Andrew That's right. Yeah. That's, that's, that's where I got. So yeah. Yeah. No, that's, it's, it's a good point though. Right. Cause I do know that some people, feel strongly about that, that, you know, a dress watch should be made out of a precious metal.
Everett Here's the other thing is we will circle back. There's not a affordable dress watch. There are no micro brands doing it, barring Solis, right? He did his run of it. That's the dressiest watch I've seen in the micro world. You know, you got to cut out Seiko fives because those are sport watches. The Bambino is there, but it's a bit of a miss.
Andrew Yeah.
Everett I think $500 is really your floor to get into an appropriately sized dress watch.
Andrew Yeah. You know, I think Seiko's got some stuff in their presage line. Certainly the cocktail time is a, is a, an old. favorite recommendation. But yeah, I mean, even then you're you're getting real close to five hundred bucks. And then, yeah, right. I know that we talked about some affordable, affordable dress watches. I think my favorite of the sub thousand dollar dress watches is the Mido Mido Baroncelli. I think it's a really. Attractive, beautiful watch. Um, it's maybe a touch busy. Uh, it's, it's, it's not ostentatious by any means, but maybe a touch busy on the dial. Uh, it could be a little bit more refined. Um, I wanted a Tiso. Visitate? Visitate for a while. I was waiting for you to say tits out. I wanted a Tiso Visitate, uh, for a number of years. I think I've, I've abandoned that desire. Um, but you know, there are things. that you can find? What was the one that you had gleaned onto?
Everett My grab in the affordable realm is the Hamilton American Classic Valiant Auto. It's about $600. But it's got all the right things. It's Roman numerals, but the Roman numerals are super tight. They almost look like just markers. They're very, very narrow. A little bit of radial brushing. on the black dial just gives it a little bit of way to catch light. It's got a date window.
Andrew Yeah. And I think from there you get into a number of sort of questionable, is this a dress watch, right? You know, the Nomos, the Tangente that Clay was wearing the other day, or even the Club Campus, right?
Everett Is a Bauhaus a dress watch?
Andrew I don't know. That's right. Is Bauhaus a dress watch? And perhaps, right? Perhaps it could be used as a dress watch. I think there's probably people listening. But I don't think it is a dress watch. Yeah, that's right. It fits the mold. It works. It would and could work.
Everett But so does a Saab. So does a Speedmaster. And a Speedmaster does just because of the heritage of the brand. Oh, that's an Omega. That's an expensive watch.
Andrew I think Azhar works. I'm not sure if Speedmaster works, despite Will's protestations. Yeah, right. You really were living in a time where you've got a ton of options, right? You know, and we're acting like this is a totally new phenomenon. You know, certainly this the Rolex Submariner. It owes some of its legacy to having been worn by James Bond with a tux and a NATO, right? Uh, you know, so there's, this is not a totally new phenomenon, but I think today throw out all the rules. People want to watch that they can wear to the pool and with a suit, right? I want, I want a SARB. I want a hundred, 200 meters of water resistance and I don't have to have some silly thin fragile precious thing i can just wear a watch that looks good because there's no rules controlling so when we say the dress watch is dead that's why i think that's what's driving it we don't have to wear dress watches so why the fuck would i wear a dress watch because i want an eight millimeter thick hand cranker that i can wear once every other year Was it you that was talking about the pocket watch? How, you know, the idea of a man wearing a wristwatch. Oh, Mike brought that up. At one point was unheard of, you know, and then certainly, you know, that changed quickly after World War I as we've talked about. Everyone wore watches. Multiple times on the show. Now everybody's wearing a wristwatch and You know, before that, it was a pocket watch. Gentlemen wore pocket watches. And today, pocket watches aren't dead. That's a weird thing to do, though. But yeah, that's right. It's like having a fedora collection. Or a fedora. You dig it. I dig it that you dig it. But that's a little weird, right? And there's certainly people who collect pocket watches and they think they're great and cool.
Everett I think they're great and cool. I'm happy to see the collection. Don't show me your fedora collection though.
Andrew One is a collection for me. That's right. I think we see dress watches kind of going that direction, except that they're still functional, right? If I had a longer one, I could wear that and people would be like, nice fossil bro.
Everett Cool, cool weekender.
Andrew You know, right? And, and, but watch people would know, I'd know. This is a cool ass fucking watch and you know what? Put it on Croc and wear it with the tux and you're the coolest guy in the room.
Everett But don't nobody know.
Andrew Yeah, so, you know, a dress watch is still just a watch at the end of the day. So you can. But why would you?
Everett I want some brands to be dropping two handers and three handers in the affordable segment.
Andrew Hey, you mentioned earlier you want a one-hander and I think that'd be dope. Yeah. I don't think I, I don't think I want that.
Everett Just a 24 hour dial.
Andrew Oh my God.
Everett One hand 24 hour. Yeah.
Andrew One revolution a day. It's, it's between one and two. I can't tell you any better than that. What time is it? Well, between one 20 and one 40 ish.
Everett It's afternoon.
Andrew It's early morning. 24 hour one day under. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm, I'm fine with that. It's for like the person who never leaves the house.
Everett It's a perfect weekend watch. It's like, I guess it's time for bed.
Andrew It's like, if you're a novelist, a novelist who's not married, that's the watch you need. Cause all you need to know is like, yeah, it's like the, it's like dinner-ish time.
Everett It's like the Boktok radio rooms. Like we really just look down and see if your hour hand is within your red markers. We're like, ah, it's time. I dig it. I dig it. But that's my thinking. I don't want to see an explosion of dress watches. I just want to see a few out there that people can have. Because it's not a one watch, it's not a two watch, it's not your third watch. This is a little bit deeper in the collection of a special occasional watch that you break out, you wear with a suit and tie, you wear with a tuxedo, you wear for these special occasions where you would be dressing up just to Just to pump your game up a little bit.
Andrew And you know what? If you're one of these folks that can wear Crocs with, you know, whatever Supreme t-shirt and fucking pull it off, maybe you wear that with a t-shirt and jeans and you look cool as shit, right? I don't know. I'm not that guy.
Everett Oh, that's not me.
Andrew Right. You know, I think that there's a lot of options there. And if you're into it, certainly there are There are things you can do to obtain a dress watch, but functionally speaking, as a staple in your collection, I think the thesis is true. The dress watch is dead.
Everett Unless you want to spend a few thousand dollars. Yeah. Because I think the least you can get into one, you can get into like a Cartier, like a Tank or a DeSantis.
Andrew Yeah. Are we going to call the Santos a dress watch? It's not not. Yeah, fair enough.
Everett Yeah, none of DeSanto's. What else did I pull up?
Andrew I pulled up... I'm okay calling... You know, I really like some of these dress watch designs. I think that the Patek, the Nailhead Calatrava, I think is one of the most beautiful watches ever made. Uh, obviously a tank, a tank is fantastic. Uh, Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso, beautiful watches, especially the, the three hand sort of simple, like the not reversing Reverso. Love it. Yeah. Love it. And, and I would appreciate that watch. I could wear that watch and I would enjoy that watch. It's just not something I'm dying to have.
Everett Would you call a crash a dress watch?
Andrew No, I don't know. What about the Thunderdome? We get a Thunderdome dress watch.
Everett It's the one that's the, yeah, MB&F with the, it's not not a dress watch, but it certainly isn't one.
Andrew Yeah. Well, uh, yeah.
Everett So, so the dress watch is dead for our purposes.
Andrew The dress watch is dead, but also not. Yeah. Yeah. You're still the owner of a dress watch. A Bambino. It's a dress watch itch. Dress watch. Ish. No, it's a dress watch. There's nothing else you can fucking do with that watch.
Everett No, you can't even look at it when you're wet.
Andrew Andrew. Other things. What you got? I have a. What was that dog hair? It looked like a hairball or something.
Everett I got these new clamps.
Andrew Cause I'm working with nipple clamps like the alligator style. Those are my favorite.
Everett Yeah. You hook them to a car battery. Yeah. It's a real party. Uh, you also can wear them when nobody's looking and that's, that's cool. Uh, so I got some new clamps cause I've been working with really wide pieces of lumber. Yeah. Yeah. You have. And if any of you do any kind of woodworking, Man, you're loving this. And you don't have these. These are worth checking out. So you, I got, uh, the, the, from Harbor Freight, the brand Pittsburgh.
Andrew Which is Harbor Freight's like low end.
Everett Yeah. It's their entry level shit. And Harbor Freight is the dollar store of tool stores.
Andrew It's the entry level of the entry level.
Everett Yes. I got their half inch cast iron pipe clamps. Yeah, you did. And I want to say I paid like $5.99 for them. I pulled up the three quarter inch on my phone and I'm not going to search for it again. Those are $8.99. And what you do is you buy these clamps and then you go to Lowe's and you buy pre-threaded, pre-cut to length pipe. And you screw your pipe clamp on both ends and you have a fully adjustable wrench it down fucking tight clamping system for $15. And for those of you who have ever bought clamps of any variety before, you know that once you start breaking like 24 inches, you're into like the 30 and $40 category.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah. And you need a shitload of them. You can't get two clamps.
Everett No, that's not enough. Sometimes you go and it's like, Oh, well, I guess I'm not buying clamps today. Get these pipe clamps. They're cheap. They're super versatile. And really, if you don't want to have a bunch of overhang, you can just have a stack of different length pipe in your garage or your wood shop, wherever you work, and just adjust that way. $17 per clamp, so $30 for two. $4 for two 48 inch clamps, which is like what you would pay for one quick.
Andrew And, and is, is it is a quick release, right?
Everett Yeah. It's quick release.
Andrew It is a quick release. Yeah. So it's, it's quick release. How does that, how does that quick release, how does it feel? Does it feel chintzy? Nope. Is that a bad word? Am I not allowed to say that? What's our podcast? Okay.
Everett Well, uh, no. So quick release feel solid.
Andrew Someone will tell me and I know exactly what it's going to be.
Everett It gets a great bite on the pipe and then it's got a clamp on the other end that's also screws down like a C clamp. So you get really, really good gripping power out of these. I've been very pleased. I probably will not ever buy quick grips again or quick clamps, whatever you call. Sure. Like the trigger, the hand trigger clamps.
Andrew Yeah. Yeah. Those are money. You know, I'm a big fan of the traditional sort of, uh, all thread screw style, uh, clamps, but I saw, I saw your pipe clamps and it seems like a decent alternative to that. Uh, maybe not quite as much. You don't have quite as much distance as you would with that traditional style.
Everett I think you do.
Andrew Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm into it. Wait, Weight's always a concern, but.
Everett They're heavy. Yeah. But if you're working on a good bench, like the weights, whatever.
Andrew Do you think you could use them with aluminum pipe? Could you just get conduit and thread it?
Everett Be worth a try. Yeah. I think depending on how much torque you put onto it, you might compromise the. Yeah. You might over torque the aluminum. Yeah. But I just got cast iron or whatever. Yeah. Plumbing pipe that's pre-threaded. work great. Money. Yeah. I wonder if PVC would work.
Andrew It might. Yeah, it might. Obviously, it's going to bow. It's not going to give you quite as much stability.
Everett I might do some experimenting with the next set.
Andrew I've got another thing. Do me. Speaking of Crocs.
Everett Who?
Andrew I got a pair of shoes this week. They're not shoes. I impulse bought them. I impulse bought them. I got a pair of EVA foam. Same material that Crocs are made out of. Birkenstocks. I hate them. I did not get them in black. Or gray.
Everett Or brown or mossy oak.
Andrew Certainly not mossy oak. I got royal blue EVA Birkenstocks. Birkencrocs. Birkencrocs.
Everett I like Crockenstocks better, but, you know, take your pick.
Andrew And they are my favorite shoes that I own right now.
Everett I hate them. I saw, I saw them on. They have the injected molded foam clasp as if to, like, as if that's going to fool anyone.
Andrew It's a real clasp. It's a plastic clasp. The, the buckles are real and functional.
Everett Are they? That makes it worse.
Andrew So I bought these. I bought these and I've been a Birkenstock wearer. I mean, I live in Oregon, right? I wear Birkenstocks.
Everett I don't own any, never have.
Andrew And I enjoy them. I enjoy wearing Birkenstocks. I actually bought my first pair of Birkenstocks when I started running long distances because, you know, the footbed is anatomic and ergonomic and whatever other nomic you want. And they just feel nice after a run. It's a good, healthy thing, and it feels good, and you air your feet out, and yadda, yadda, yadda. But I've worn Birkenstocks for years. This year, I wanted a pair of waterproof sort of flip-flops, something to wear in a waterproof fashion, but I just hate flip-flops. They're so uncomfortable. They're uncomfortable, and they look stupid. I'm sorry if you're a flip-flop wearer. In my mind, I don't like them. I saw these things and I was like, I think this is it. And so I ordered them with low expectation, right? Cause I'm not going to wear Crocs. I don't really, it's not my thing. Low expectations. I got them. I adjusted them, put them on and I was like, fuck man. And then I just wear them all the time. Anytime I'm at the house, basically. How much are they? I'm wearing them 40 bucks.
Everett I still hate them.
Andrew But you've reconsidered your disdain.
Everett I might buy a pair because I also hate flip-flops. I don't like getting my slippers wet. And river shoes are so hard to get on. Which is nice because they also don't then come off in the water.
Andrew You know, I've got Chacos for boat activities and they are a pain in the dick.
Everett I've got like fully enclosed. What's the brand that's like a hand?
Andrew Oh, like the five finger? Yeah, it's like a... You've got five fingers? Yeah, it's just a hand. I don't remember the name of it. The ones with the toes?
Everett No, no, no. It's a fully enclosed. It's an aqua sock, but not an aqua sock. It's like protected on top. And so I wear those in the boat or like river activities. But they they do not go on easy and they really don't go on easy once they're wet. Yeah. Like they're on and they're on for the day. Yeah, if they come off, that's it. I'm not going back in the water. I'm going to dry my feet off and put on shoes. So that's kind of intriguing because I hate flip flops. They look stupid to me. I've never found a pair that was comfortable because they just rub in all the weird places. You get blisters, they break, and then you stub your toe or they fall off.
Andrew It's just a fucking... You know, when I was in college, I had a pair of those wreaths with the bottle opener on the bottom.
Everett Sounds right. They were cool. Yeah, that's gross that you would put the bottom of your shoe on a bottle. I did all the time. I believe it. It was awesome.
Andrew So gross. And they were comfortable, right? But yeah, I'm a 40 year old man and I'm not wearing bottle opener wreaths.
Everett I didn't ever like seeing people open bottles at the bottom of their shoe or their belt buckle. Like, I don't know.
Andrew Can we please keep the beer away from your penis?
Everett Like, why? Why was that? You don't have one in your pocket like a normal person? Freak.
Andrew Andrew. As much as I like hanging out with you. I think the time has come. Is there anything else you want to add before we go?
Everett I'm just sorry the dress watches are dead.
Andrew Dead. Dress watches are deader than dead, man. Yeah. Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of 40 and 20. Check us out on the website, watchclicker.com. Every single episode of the podcast, reviews, articles. We got the goods, man. You can check us out on Instagram. at 40 and 20 at Watch Clicker. If you want to support the show on the website, and we really, really, really hope you want to support the website and podcast, you can do so at patreon.com slash 40 and 20. And don't forget to tune back in next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Everett Bye bye.