Episode 111 - The Vostok Amphibia

Published on Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:00:00 -0800

Synopsis

The podcast discusses the fascinating engineering behind the Vostok Amphibia dive watch. The hosts delve into the ingenious design of the case back, crystal, and crown system that allowed the Soviet engineers to create a robust 200-meter water-resistant watch without access to existing patents or advanced machinery. They highlight the unique solutions like the bayonet case back with a sintered rubber gasket and the flexible acrylic crystal that could compress under pressure. The two-part episode provides a comprehensive history and technical breakdown of this iconic Russian watch's innovative features.

The hosts also discuss other topics like concrete countertop installation, peeler recommendations, and their usual banter about life and watches.

Links

• episode page
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• episode webpage snapshot
• episode MP3 - local mirror

Transcript

Speaker
Andrew	Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is 1420 The Watch Clicker podcast with your host, Andrew. I'm a good friend, Everett. Here, we talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Everett	Everett, how are you? I'm doing great. I mean, it's kind of just a neutral feeling I have, but I think that's good. So that's not great. No, I mean, there's nothing bad, right? It's just life as usual. You're just medium. Medium. Schmedium, but Schmedium for me is good, right?
Andrew	Oh, I will. I feel okay when I'm medium. I'll take medium every day over like good and bad every other day. Give me medium.
Everett	Yeah. Just give me medium. I mean, there's nothing extraordinary. I worked. I had a good dinner. That was nice. I mean, it's just like, I'm good.
Andrew	Today was a day. Today was a day. It's not going to be memorable and memorable is not always good. How are you? I'm well, closing in on the end of a weekend. I had a terrific weekend, so I took a couple extra days off. A friend of mine is, he kind of got unexpectedly quick orders to go to a military school that is a permanent change of station. So he's gonna move for seven months. And he expected that sometime next summer. And then last month, he got it for January. And he's like, ooh man, I have a lot to accomplish in, over like the Christmas break for most people. I've got a PCS in a month.
Unknown	Yeah.
Andrew	So he and his fiance were like, well, we need to elope so that I can, so that she can move with him. And they asked me to officiate their elopement. So we went down to central Oregon sisters and we stayed, they got us a cabin for the weekend. So we stayed in a little cabin and we did an elopement. Well, I did an elopement. I officiated a wedding. Fantastic. It was very weird. I could just feel the power vested in me flowing through me. It was fun. So it turned out to be a fun little getaway, sans kids. Now, something that occurred to me while I was there, when you go to these kind of rustic-y but still really modern and luxurious cabin places, they do some weird things. in the design of the cabins that are neither luxurious nor thoroughly enjoyable. First thing is you go to this really beautiful bathroom and it's all tile, it's a walk-in shower, like without any kind of barriers, right? You just stroll right into it, a cavernous ceiling, huge bathtub, easy 150, 175 gallon tub, deep, like you could comfortably sleep in it. And it's got this little little trough around the top of the tub. And what looked to me to be the faucet that it would like fill that little trough and just kind of infinity pool flood into the tub. And I was like, Oh, that's really cool. How neat. I turned the water on and what sounds like a fire hose, like a thunder of water starts pouring by my head. And I kind of freak out and I look up on this like 10 foot ceiling. And it's just like a hole in the ceiling from which the water is falling at the highest pressure I have ever experienced. So it's just this. It was not a good design idea. What was this? What was happening here? That was how the water flows into the tub. Oh, it's just a ceiling geyser. Oh, it looked like a butthole of just like water spewing and down into the tub. And it's coming down at such velocity that you can't get in the tub until it's done. Cause it's just splashing all over the place. And I was like, well, that's weird. Why would they do this? I don't know. It didn't make any sense. Like the pictures of it would look really cool. The design was not really well thought out for the enjoyment of the user. All right. So then I was like, Oh, well fuck that. I'm gonna take a shower. And this shower, this bathroom's huge, right? There's a huge barrel tub in the corner, double sinks. And then this cavern of a shower. I turned the water on. and the water's nice and hot, and it's great. But the bathroom is so big that it took 20 minutes for the air to warm up. So I'm just huddled in the spray of the shower head, trying to avoid the cold air touching me until finally the room got up to temperature.
Everett	That's the problem with the big open showers. They look kind of cool, but yeah, the temperature doesn't warm up.
Andrew	It certainly wasn't a luxurious experience, I will tell you that. That part. Once I figured that part out, I just knew you go turn the shower on full blast and wait. I'm sorry. I survived.
Everett	It's true. Here you are. Here you are. But Sisters was nice. It was easy to get there.
Andrew	Other than that, easy to get there. It's the first time that I'd driven through the Holiday Farm Fire carnage. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. I was not expecting it to be as striking still. Yeah. So Holiday Farm Fire was extinguished.
Everett	A month ago? Yeah, you know, for those of you who don't remember, we had some pretty big fires in Oregon. They were all over the country, but in particular, Oregon, sort of closer to civilization than they normally occur.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	We had some pretty big fires, and one of those is in between us and the Central Oregon Bend area.
Andrew	And it was, it was crazy. And what's weird about this area is it's densely populated along the highway. There's just, it's basically one continuous town. They're all different townships and there's a little mile, two mile breaks, but basically until you get into the national forest, it's just, it's towns. Yeah. It was just a, there was some new construction and some houses that were just untouched. Their yards are fine. Their trees are fine. Like nothing happened. But other than that, it was just a parade of chimneys still standing. It's crazy. It was, it was upsetting.
Everett	Yeah. We went through there about a month ago. Just.
Andrew	bizarre yeah other than that very delightful weekend there was snow in the mountains so I got to see some snow without having to drive in it which was nice and you guys didn't go skiing or anything when you're out there no we did not okay I don't do that oh I'd love to but I don't want to get hurt so my dad had the kids it was great it was a good little getaway fantastic yeah fantastic I've got no I've got no comparable stories from this weekend so I'm just gonna your your weekend also was perfectly medium yeah
Everett	That's right. It wasn't bad.
Andrew	And I executed love.
Everett	You executed love? Yeah. By the power vested in you? Yeah. By Universal Life Ministries. There is some power that's been vested in you. Oddly enough, right? All sorts of power vested in you. Yeah. All the kind.
Andrew	So we've wasted seven and a half minutes. Those are seven good minutes. Those weren't wasted. They were. They were good minutes. But we need to get on to some things.
Everett	We need to get on some things. Can we start with a quick website update? Are you okay with that? No. Okay. I'm sorry, Will. How about we do it anyway? Okay. So we haven't updated on the website in a couple weeks, and that's okay. We're busy. Shit. You guys are on the website every day. You know what's on there. But just in case you haven't been there in a couple weeks, we've got a new segment on the website. And that is our Watch Clicker Recommends series. So we've just started this.
Andrew	And to be really clear, we're not getting paid for any of it. There's no affiliate links. These are just things that we like and think that you'll probably like too.
Everett	Yeah. You know, I think this is sort of born out of frustration with online lists. It seems like most of these lists are kind of affiliate marketing vehicles more than a credible list. So you might find some good stuff on there, and then you're like, nobody wants that Tiso. Tiso. Or that EcoDrive is weird. Okay.
Andrew	You can get a better one for less.
Everett	What are you doing? So I think born out of that, we say, you know, we are four, three or four guys who are super into this. are not married to any sort of affiliate marketing program or anything. And so we have an ability to be able to do that list, the GQ or the Gear Patrol list a little bit better. And so we started doing that and we debuted, I prepared the first one, the best watches under $500. We went with 10. That was very hard.
Andrew	Well, we had about 20.
Everett	That's right. So there's 10 that made the list and then about 10 Honorable mentions. And it's just tough, right? But we sort of voted. We all took a vote and we tracked. And all of these are not going to be formatted the same. This last week, we also published a Watch Click Recommends Will Prepare to Watch Stuff for $20 article, which I think was pretty fun. I think there's two more in the can right now, or two more being stuffed into the can, as it were. They're not movies, so they're not going in a can But in any event... Into the press.
Andrew	That's right. Somebody is preparing the letters as we speak.
Everett	That's right. Yeah, I think it's fun. I think you guys should check them out. They'll be a semi-regular thing. I don't know. Ultimately, I don't know how many we'll do or how frequently they'll do them. But yeah, I think it's kind of a fun thing. And I think if you're a newcomer to the watch scene, I think they might be more valuable. But what I hope is that guy who's looking for his first watch and doesn't know where to start finds our list and not the Gear Patrol GQ list.
Andrew	Which is not to say because sometimes they've got some good shit on there. That's true. But it's it's harder to sort through the not so good stuff to find the good stuff.
Everett	That's right. That's right. So check out the website watchcloaker.com. That's where you find this shit. Also also this last week we will publish two reviews both of them I think really good.
Andrew	They weren't his best work, but he did okay.
Everett	Trigger warning for those of you who are sensitive to this sort of thing, but Will published a Damasco DS30 review, which I think is a great, really interesting watch. Damasco is an interesting brand to me. They really are, yeah. We should talk about them at some point on the show. And also the Montenoble. Will's got his review of the Montenoble out, so. So good. Check it out. WatchCloaker.com. The blue is pretty okay. So Andrew. Andrew. Yes, sir. Andrew. Yes, we're talking.
Andrew	We're talking about that wasn't even like I don't know if you've ever heard a Russian accent. I know that's what you were trying to attempt just to be on theme with the show. You know, I played a Russian.
Everett	I'll play once for like six weeks. Once. No, like four, four shows for six weeks. Did you have an understudy? I did theoretically have an understudy. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't it was small. It was small theater.
Andrew	This isn't like I'm just asking you if you were like if you were just the last person picked for the team and that was not all needed or not to be mean, but that was that was just a poor execute. Try again. You can do better. I believe in you.
Everett	Maybe later. I'll do it. You're you've got me on the spot now and we're talking about do it off the form. It's not
Andrew	The Bok-Tok Amphibia.
Everett	So and so sometimes you see this on the dial. We'll just start here. Sometimes you see this on the dial written Bok-Tok. That's Cyrillic. It's actually what you see as Bok-Tok is pronounced Bostock.
Andrew	I don't know about that. It's a true story. So we're going to do it. Have we? We've done a couple episodes. We have to have on just one watch.
Everett	Hmm. Well, in fairness, this is not one watch.
Andrew	No, this is a long long story to get to one watch that became a family of watches. And a whole company, to be fair.
Everett	Yeah. Uh, have we ever done, I mean, we've done like the poor man's episodes before.
Andrew	And then we, yeah. So maybe this is it. This is our first, our inaugural one sort of watch episode.
Everett	Yeah. And I think that there's only a handful of watches that would deserve this kind of treatment. Of course, we're talking about the Vostok Amphibia. The Vostok Amphibia. Vostok Amphibia. which I understand is controversial the way I pronounce it. I'm sorry.
Andrew	That's our thing. You'll never know if we're saying it right or wrong on purpose or not.
Everett	You know, we sort of realized at some point that we have a couple places that we do good work. One of those, I think we do good interviews. I think it's fair to say we do good interviews.
Andrew	We try our best. Usually the people we're interviewing do a good job.
Everett	We've connected with some folks that interview well, and I think that we're not bad at doing interviews. The other thing I think we have succeeded at is when we sort of dove into a topic, done some research, and you guys, it's not a lot of research, but we do some surface research and then talk about that thing based on what we've learned. I think we've done that well in the past.
Andrew	It's certainly the most fun. So even if we're not doing it well, we like it the most. So this is going to be a thing that we continue to do. That's right.
Everett	You know, I say often, I think quartz watches was my favorite episode we've ever done.
Andrew	Uh, so over this weekend, I was, uh, I brought two watches for a day and a half trip as I wore a sarb for the ceremony. And then I was wearing my Nemo. Um, and we just, we were boozing and we got to talking about watches and, um, his now wife's friend and her husband were there and they both got to talking about watches with me. And I was like, Oh, you have, you've done a thing. You might as well sit down and crack another beer and we go. They listen to me just a yammer on about watches for I know we probably talked about watches for like two hours.
Everett	You know, I walked him through the entire about about watches for two hundred hours.
Andrew	Do you know that we haven't had to probably actually two hundred hours at this point, but that just like as I was talking about courts movements, they glazed over a little bit and I was like, but if for my money, what are you looking to spend for a watch? What are you looking for? So, I think I might have sold a Notice Sport.
Everett	Oh, nice.
Andrew	Though they're not out yet, but I showed them the Field Blues, and they really like that. And the other guy, I think, is going to get into a Triumph. Oh, wow.
Everett	Yeah. Oh, wow. That's a big move.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	That's a big move.
Andrew	Well, cool. So, I'll take my commission checks.
Everett	You're preaching the gospel, man. Well done.
Andrew	So, with that, Sorry to interrupt, but we yammer on. So what I'm, what I'm getting at is that was, that was like the most fun I've had talking about watches to somebody who is not a watch person, number one. And number two, um, since doing episodes like this, where it's learn some stuff, talk about it, find the gaps in our knowledge and then share it. Cause knowledge is fun to have. It's more fun to share.
Everett	Yeah. And I think you and I both sort of faced the same thing. Well, At least in our heads. When I talk to people about watches, it feels like 90% of the time I'm the least knowledgeable guy in the room.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	You know, we have the opportunity to hang out with Will and Mike.
Andrew	And a bunch of brand owners.
Everett	All day long basically by way of text. And yeah, brand owners and just the people that we've met on Instagram that we chat with all day long. You know, all of these people I feel like are more knowledgeable about us. or about more knowledgeable about watches than us. They just know everything about me. More knowledgeable about watches than us. So yeah, it's nice to be able to have that conversation where you're sort of the master of the, the master of the dialogue.
Andrew	And held hostage because couldn't nobody drive.
Everett	Let me tell you about a balance cock. Yeah. So I think, I think the, this story is really a two part story of the Vostok amphibia. I concur. And maybe it's more than two parts, but two sort of... Two acts. Two acts. That's right. That's right. So do you have any inclination to kick us off on this first act of the story of maybe the greatest Dive Watch ever made?
Andrew	I knew when we have to take it back. Way back. Go back. We have to start in 1930, I think. Maybe earlier, but I think we have to start in 1930. I don't think the story can start any later. I'm down for that. And it starts when big dog Stalin himself creates the first state watch company. And it's not, I'm not saying the first as it's in like the first one, it's called the first state watch company.
Everett	I like, I like the way this story goes. I like every part of this story, but that's one of my favorite parts.
Andrew	That's what it's called. And that's just so like, it's just so fitting. Right? Yeah. And so there, so that's, that's where it is. First state watch company comes into business. and starts churning out watches.
Everett	Like Stalin did everything first, the same way Donald Trump does everything the biggest. Yes. Like if Donald Trump had a watch company, it would be like the best ever watch company. You did it.
Andrew	It'd be the hugest state watch company. Hugest. So we've got first state watch company founded in 1930. And that's important because that's an engineering feat unto itself, right? We're in Soviet era where shit is consolidated to be manufactured, pushed back out, And there's going to be a lot of points where this is important, where that centralized manufacturing is key to the success or failure of the amphibia's endeavor to create the amphibia.
Everett	Well, and I think it's important to note here, too, that in the 30s, and really not until the 70s, the late 70s, communism is still a viable concept, right? I think for most of us, for most of the people listening to the show, although not all, I can guarantee almost all of us, communism has always been a known entity, right? It kind of... It wasn't fledgling. That's right. And beyond that, it's always been sort of, for me, Communism has never been the way, right? The communism is a bad thing. And communism has been a bad word in the United States for at least 80 years, perhaps a little bit more. But really, it's not until the late 70s that people are really clued in that, okay, communism has some major problems.
Andrew	Yeah, there's some inherent faults to the system.
Everett	That's right. And which is not to say capitalism is... Okay, we're not having that conversation, but yeah. There's some inherent faults to that system too. That's right. That's right. But... But there's this difference, right? Communism still is full of optimism. And furthermore, we're way before the Cold War. I mean, communism is just sort of getting started. And it's like, oh, what's this communism thing? Those guys look interesting.
Andrew	You know, they bought a defunct American watch company and all of their shit and brought it over to Mother Russia to start First State Watch Company. I did not know that. Don't recall the name. Should have wrote it down, but it's gone. It'll be in the notes. There's going to be probably a dozen links. There's probably going to be about a dozen links to articles that we drew something from. It is by no means the complete encyclopedia on this watch. And we'd really love to hear things that we missed, because if we are nothing, if not trivia dorks. That's right. So we're going to move forward. We're going to fast forward 11 years to 1941. Boom. 1941, the Germans are closing in. Some shit's happening. Into Mother Russia. So they evacuate from their location, First State Watch Company evacuates and moves to Christopole. Christopole. No, Christopher. Yes, so Christopole, Kistapole, however you want to say it. I don't talk Russian, so you're going to get my version of it. Okay. They move to Christopole and they establish... I like it, committed. They establish a new watch factory. They take like, I wanted to say like 20 train cars, 500 tons of shit But they also stopped manufacturing watches. Yeah. Because, at the time, spoiler, there was a world war. Yeah. So, CWF went to manufacturing supplies for the war effort.
Everett	And that continues until... But this is, for all intents and purposes, Vostok, right? It will become. It will become.
Andrew	It will become. Because post-World War II, some of that goes back to First State Watch Company's manufacturing warehouse, or manufacturing facility. But the CWF remains in place. And that's where we start to see these brands emerging. Because they're still centralized manufacturing processes. They're still closed-loop-ish. And they're operating as companies, though they're still state-managed manufacturing facilities. They're doing different things. They have different folks working on the floor. They're doing different things. And that's where we start to see these brand identities emerge, is after World War II, once First State Watch Company opened, or First State, yeah, once they moved back, and CWU remains in place.
Everett	I've also heard First State Watch Company as First Moscow Watch Company.
Andrew	Yes, it becomes. So, First Moscow, and then it goes into Second Moscow, and I don't recall exactly when, because it's not important to the story.
Everett	It's not. No, okay, but that's okay. Just to get our facts straight. Keep going.
Andrew	So, they return to Moscow. Moscow. Musgrove. Musgraves. CWF remains in place and continues manufacturing watches. And the 1960s is when they brand as Boktok. And I don't really understand why. But they do. And that's when you start to, that's when you see the emergence of other brand names unrelated to their just where they're located as a manufacturing facility.
Everett	Yeah. And I think Vostok is the name of the first space program in Russia. Yeah.
Andrew	But why did, why did CWF get dibs?
Everett	Yeah. I think that it's, there's still power struggles, right? You still have corporate entities within, within the state, you know, you still have a corporate identity, right? And so these people said, Oh, we're Vostok.
Andrew	But why didn't, why didn't the Moscow watch factory get Vostok?
Everett	Well, I mean, you get, you have all these, all these companies sort of jumping on at the same time. You've got Pobeta, you've got Roketa, you know, Rokit. Polya, you've got, yeah. That's right. So, or not Pobeta, Polya, excuse me. So, you've got all these sort of, I think everybody was cashing in, right? I think everybody is competing. How many Vostok's were there, do you think?
Andrew	Oh, I don't know. Maybe a lot, right? And then they just like, got silenced? The Vostok 5 and 9? The KGB showed up? Yeah. No.
Everett	Vostok grocers.
Andrew	Vostok was reminiscent of the space program. And that was in the 60s. That was the crown jewel of Mother Russia. The space program. That was the crown jewel of every developed nation was their space program. Like, this is what we're going to do. So these watch companies, jumping on board, named their factories. They're now brand after things reminiscent of what's going on in the bigger world, because forever and always, watches are not on the cutting edge. They're peripheral, but still near the cutting edge.
Everett	And again, sort of to revisit this Cold War ideology, right? There's still very much an ongoing competition between the West and the East. Who's going to win? And if you've watched The Right Stuff on Disney, which I totally recommend. I don't know if that's been one of our other things, but Disney has done a series based on the original book, The Right Stuff, which dives a lot more significantly into the lives of the original Apollo astronauts, or excuse me, Gemini. Gemini. Mercury, perhaps, astronauts. So it's these same guys, but it ends in a much different place. And instead of being about technology, although it is about you. I mean, you can't separate the two. It's about the personalities and the dynamics and the people involved in a significant way. It's a really, really fantastic series, by the way. If you haven't watched it, you should. I haven't watched it. Mid-episode, other thing. All right, keep going.
Andrew	Jackpot. I'm sorry. So, 1965. This is, I think, this is where kind of the first act, big, big, broad stroke closes, right? So, we're just covering, we're laying some groundwork here. 1965, Vostok becomes the official supplier to the Ministry of Defense for watches. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Now, where did you want to start?
Everett	Yeah. I think that, I think that there's perhaps maybe an interlude here too, because I think it's important to sort of, uh, to talk about why, why things were done the way they were done. So, so first, So, Vostok assigns two engineers. So, what Russia, what the USSR lacked in traditional... Right, not Russia, the Soviet Union. Soviet Union, yeah, that's right. What the Soviet Union lacked in traditional resources and capitalist capital, they more than made up for in talent, right? Yeah. Um, Russia has some of the most, uh, in the sixties has some of the most developed, uh, rocket technology. Um, they've got fantastic scientists, you know, there's the, the, the, or in a cold war. Yeah, that's right. There's the, the paperclip, uh, what are they called? The paperclip project or paperclip. So the, you know, the United States has this really covert kind of secretive, um, program to enlist Nazi German and Nazi scientists into our facilities, right? Because these Germans really had a ton of knowledge. And so everybody kind of wanted to tap these guys, but it was really sort of bad imagery, right? The... Yeah, there's some bad PR there. It's a bad look. And so they're doing it really surreptitiously. Well, Russia has very few qualms, right? So they're grabbing the best Russian scientists and putting them to work. So, you know, Russia's got great human resources when it comes to engineering.
Andrew	And they... Human capital, I think, is a better way to put that.
Everett	Yeah, sure. Human capital. Yeah, that's right. So they assign these two engineers to the task of making a dive watch. So this is Vera Belov and Mikhail Novikov. Belov, Novikov. We'll say those names throughout the episode today. But these are the two engineers put in charge of Designing.
Unknown	Design, yeah.
Everett	Designing, engineering a 200 meter professional, no shit dive watch from scratch.
Andrew	For military application. And with that comes some challenges because Mother Russia does not buy patents. All these other nations, you know, the Swiss are doing it. There is, we're seeing that technology exists in the American watch industry. No, you can't use that because we're not buying those patents. Yeah, that's right. And we're not going to steal them either because that would have been way too easy. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to take these two engineers who are otherwise unencumbered because we've just freed up their schedule and said, here's your task. Godspeed.
Everett	And so exactly right. There's a model on the floor for these people already, right? Because... Yeah. It exists, it's there. The Swiss are doing this in many different instances, right? As far back as the 30s, the Swiss are making good dive watches, right? And they get better over time, but by the 60s, the technology is really, really good. So you've got watches like the Submariner or the 50 Fathoms from Le Blanc This technology exists. And by and large, it's using brute force static pressure resistance. So just like your Submariner today is a 300 meter watch. I think they're three. And it's always got 300 meters of water resistance because the case back is the case back. And the crystal is the crystal. The fittings are the fittings. and that stuff doesn't change. You screw that case back down, it compresses the o-ring, and it has all of the water resistance that it will ever have. Correct. In the bathtub, up in the air, or in the Mariana Trench, all of the water resistance is static. There is, so EPSA has already by this time designed the compressor case. So I think sometimes... I was fledgling.
Unknown	That's right.
Andrew	I don't know if it was available to them for theft. Otherwise, I think there would have been that consideration.
Everett	It is out in the world though, right? Yeah. So compressor technology is there. So with static resistance, you need a couple of things. You need very, very, very good machining.
Andrew	Which the Soviet Union did not have.
Everett	That's right. And you need access to these existing patents, right? Yeah.
Andrew	Which you just talked about. Which they were not going to have, by choice. They said no.
Everett	And so Belov and Novikov take a look at the existing machining capabilities in Russia and they said, we simply cannot make screws and threads and fit components to the degree, to the precision necessary, with the precision necessary to achieve this thing. So even if we could get patents, we don't have the ability to make this stuff.
Andrew	And so they have to, with that, they also don't have the material. That's right. In order to go from brass to steel cases, they had to petition the government to start producing acceptable quality steel for this endeavor.
Everett	And so they do what they can, they figure out what their resources are, and they come up with a concept for a variable resistance compressor case, just like the EPSA compressor. I mean, this is the same ideology that is going to get stronger under pressure, at depth, the ability to resist water. So when we say static resistance, compressor resistance, if we use those terms, we're talking about the ability of a watch to increase its resistance to pressure as pressure is applied on it.
Andrew	Versus its perpetual ability.
Everett	That's right. Yes. That's right. So there's an issue... So the way precision machine resistance works. There's some concepts that are really simple, but you have to sort of think about them to get them. So the first is that steel on steel, no matter how tight you get it, is finite in terms of its ability to resist. You're going to have voids in the steel. You're going to have, no matter how good your machining is, you're not going to get an absolute airtight seal. And so the employment of O-rings has been used in watches for, at this point, you know, 80, 90 years. There's some problems with O-rings. Right. There's some problems with O-rings.
Andrew	Especially when you're talking about compression.
Unknown	That's right. Yeah.
Andrew	That's right. And that's something that I think I didn't really even think about until I was, like, researching into this. Was, oh, yeah, no, the compressor case, it just squishes the rubber, the rubber bounces back. No. No, it doesn't just bounce back like that.
Everett	Right. So I think probably the most natural place to start this is with the case-back design that Bell, Evan, Novikov come up with. Because it's really, I mean, I think that it's hard to look at this design today and not come to the conclusion that it's objectively better than a static resistance case.
Andrew	Yeah. Well, I mean, Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think it's there.
Everett	So when you open up your SKX or your Orient Mako or your Saab or whatever watch it is, just about every single one of them is gonna do the same thing. It's gonna have a single piece of machined or stamped steel that you screw into the watch case And once those threads get low enough, it's not very much, it's not very much distance, right? That O-ring is very, not even, not even that, right? The actual tension, so when it touches the O-ring to when it stops turning is not very much, but because of the nature of threads, it means once the case back hits that O-ring, it has to move maybe 180 degrees. And all of that time, it's touching the O-ring and squeezing the O-ring. So you're applying rotational, tangential shearing.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	So this is the thing that happens when that O-ring is under pressure, being squeezed, and also getting turned on. So you can imagine if you've opened up, if you've got a watch and you've opened up the case back a handful of times, you do that too many times and then the O-ring gets floppy and stretched out and wonky and you've got to replace it, right? That is because you're applying pressure and turning against it. So you combat that with grease or whatever, and that does a reasonable job, but it's not a perfect system. You're going to have to, every time you take the case back off or put the case back on, you're applying pressure and that O-ring is going to go bad. So Belov and Novikov have a really, this is my favorite part. They've got this really sort of innovative system. What they do is they utilize a two-part crown or maybe slightly, not crown, case back, maybe slightly more than that. And what it does is that it utilizes a bayonet. So you've got a bayonet that sits above the actual case back. So imagine you set the case back down under the watch, that case back touches the seal, and then on top of that, you stick another piece that loops into that case back and does all the turning. So the case back never turns. The bayonet turns, goes down the threads, just like your one piece would. And that bayonet, the thing that's turning, the ring, never touches the gasket. So there's no
Andrew	Your o-ring never twists, your o-ring just compresses.
Everett	And your case back never turned, more importantly, your case back never turns against your o-ring. So there's just a squishing action. If you've never understood this concept and you still don't understand it as I'm saying it, which is totally reasonable, try to find some pictures because it's so simple and so awesome. So the other, they instantly discover another problem. That rubber doesn't bounce back very well? That's right. That's right. So there's a problem with standard rubber. You squish it and it squishes just fine. So you, you, you apply pressure. Now you've got to seal. And as that pressure increases, your seal gets tighter. Your seal gets tighter. You're good. You're good. You're good. Everything's fine. It gets all the way down. You're still fine. You still got to seal because you've got rubber. Now, when you decompress, the problem occurs that the decompression happens faster. than the rubber's ability to rebound.
Andrew	And what's crazy to me is that that issue really only exists at over 20% of displacement of rubber. Yeah, so deep. But what's crazy to me is that that O-ring is getting displaced 20% or more during these compression tests. Yeah. That's a shitload. Right. That's right. That's how tight it's getting. displacing 20% of that rubber as it's compressing on itself. There's good news though.
Unknown	There is.
Everett	There's good news, because the Russians have invented, in their infinite wisdom, a process called sintering. Now, this is a process that everybody uses today. Anytime you've ever picked up a rubber gasket, it's been sintered. But they use this process called sintering, which they take rubber, natural rubber, they grind it to a very fine dust, and then they lay it out in a flat sheet and compress and heat it until it sort of comes back together, and it makes these big sheets. And you use these big sheets to cut out gaskets. Cut out plugs, yeah. Which is what they use in... And basically, this stuff has a fantastic rebound rate. They use this in the rocket technology in Russia.
Andrew	And so they... I was gonna say, we had some O-ring failures.
Everett	We did, in the 80s, right? If we had just used sintered rubber, we'd have been fine. No, actually, that is true. I don't know if you know anything about that. But, you know, it's this incredibly sort of, you think about it, and you're like, oh, yeah, so easy. It's so simple. But they did it. They utilized this technology. And they basically designed the greatest caseback system ever.
Andrew	But then they also did it with the crystal.
Everett	That's right.
Andrew	Yeah.
Everett	That's right. So we can move on to the crystal.
Andrew	I think we have to if you look at our time.
Everett	You guys just buckle in. Okay.
Andrew	We got a three hour episode here for you today.
Everett	So I think at this point it's common knowledge that domed crystals are stronger, right? There's a mechanical advantage to a domed crystal versus a flat crystal.
Andrew	Yes. Also an inherent better aesthetic.
Everett	It's better able to resist forces from the external side, from... It displaces force better than a flat piece of glass or plastic. The convex side is more capable at resisting pressure, right? And furthermore, at this point, it's known that acrylic, aka PMMA, aka polymethyl methacrylate, aka lucite plexiglass perspex, PMMA or acrylic as we'll call it for the duration of this episode. I'm going to call it plastic. Has some really sort of unique properties, right? It's just plastic. We take these properties for granted, but versus glass, it's got some great properties. Glass is harder.
Andrew	Which is not necessarily better when you're looking for something that's supposed to bend under pressure.
Everett	That's right. That's right. So what they've done is they run all these tests. They figure out how much it flexes. They figure out how much they need it to flex. Again, 20 to 30 percent. Yes, 20 to 30 percent. And they very, very carefully engineer an acrylic crystal in terms of thickness, inside curve, outside curve. All these dimensions are independent of one another. They come to the right solutions for each of those three dimensions, thickness, inside curve, outside curve. And they have to carefully machine each one of these crystals at the time. I think the process is a little bit easier today. I'd hope so. With a pretty high degree of precision. I mean, we're not talking about Swiss threads at this point because we've already discussed that they don't have that ability, but still... Then they weren't gonna get there, yeah. More carefully machined than you might imagine. And they apply this crystal in a case in the way that as pressure is applied, the crystal is going to flatten out, it's going to squeeze out, as you can imagine, you know, you're pressing in the middle of the bowl and the bowl is going to get wider, right? 0.5 millimeters, a half of a millimeter of compression at depth is what this thing is engineered to take. That's a lot. That's a lot.
Andrew	And again, they're using the same centered O-ring system on the top to keep it all locked in place. I read this watch described as putting a watch inside a closed jam jar.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. That's right. And that 0.5 millimeters is enough dimension that they have to give additional clearance above the post and the hands so that it doesn't come down and crush them. Or touch them. Yeah, that's right.
Andrew	Not just crush, but just even touch.
Everett	And I think I think crystal technology, I think it's easy to take for granted. I think what's harder to take for granted with the Vostok, because anybody who's ever played with one has noticed something almost immediately funny, which is... There's a scuba man on the front. Yes, exactly. That's it. That's it. You're a mind reader.
Andrew	Or are we talking about the loosey-goosey, flippity-floppity flaccid crown?
Everett	Yeah, we're talking about that loosey-goosey flaccid crown. Because that is a thing that people don't like.
Andrew	Right? And even my first experience of it, I'm like, this is kind of charming, I kind of like this. Learning more about it, learning more about it, learning more about it, and then spending this last week in some change reading about it. It could be my favorite part.
Everett	Yeah, I think it is for me too.
Andrew	It might be the most technologically impressive part. For me.
Everett	I still think the case back is the best.
Andrew	The case back is amazing, but in the way of like, we have a problem, we have solutions in the world, but we're going to do it cheaper, with less resources, and somehow better.
Everett	And so can we just apologize to any of you guys who know all of this stuff already, because some of you guys will know every single bit of what we're saying today already. Some of you won't, and I'm hoping that most of you don't. because I think it's a fascinating story, and I think I hope we're doing a good job telling it. So, a traditional keyless works, a traditional or standard keyless works has two positions. So, this is the movement, you know... Open and closed, yep. Yeah, push-pull crown on a movement. We call that the keyless works. What happens inside the movement is the keyless works. So, two positions in a standard. You have in for winding, and you have out for setting. Right? That's it. That's it. If you've got a screw-down crown, you need a third position because if you try to screw down a fully wound movement and you don't have some sort of clutch system, you're not going to be able to turn it forward to screw the crown down, right? So you need to have a third position. The Swiss have already done this in really a couple of different ways, but both ways sort of do the same thing, which is they apply a constant spring load on the stem, which is only released when you push it in, right? So there's this constant pressure in the stem being pushed out, and that's not really a problem. It's not really a problem, but what it does mean is the stem is always under tension, and it can cause distortion in the stem unless the stem is kind of beefed up. It's hard to have a really dainty stem. You've got to have a beefed up, more sort of torsionally resistant stem. And that is the solution, right? You beef the stem up, you make it so once you push it in, you've engaged the clutch or disengaged the clutch?
Andrew	You'll have disengaged the clutch. Okay, there you go.
Everett	So our Russian friends, Belov and Novikov, have some options, right? They've got a movement that they could use and do this with, but they're going to have to employ a beefier stem, and it's just going to cause some issues. And I think at this point they're sort of probably feeling flush at their victories, right?
Andrew	Yeah. They've achieved an engineering masterpiece at this point.
Everett	That's right. That's right. And so I think perhaps maybe they're just pushing it and playing games. But what they do is they create kind of a brand new clutch system. And instead of having it be in the keyless works, or in the crown itself perhaps, they employ it all the way back in the crown. And when we say clutch system, right? A clutch is a pretty simple mechanical device. They take it all the way out of the watch and they put it in the crown. This clutch is what makes your crown wobbly. The crown is never engaged. Instead of being constantly engaged, it's never engaged until you apply an outward pressure to it. So if you've ever had a Vostok, you know you can just turn that crown and nothing happens. It's just the slightest bit of pressure. It sounds like it would be annoying. It's not, and it's very intuitive. And some people who own Vostoks have never even realized that they have to do this. But what you have to do is pull out just slightly.
Andrew	Yep. Just a bit of outward tension and that engages. Just a bit of outward pressure.
Everett	Exactly. Exactly. So in order to wind and or set your watch, you just pull out a bit. This actually winds up being good for a whole bunch of reasons. So it's safer in shock situations. It accomplishes all of the goals of the screw down crown clutch system. And it's just generally a more efficient system.
Andrew	I would also think that it increases its ability to resist water, because you're not going to see as much movement through that case of your stem to your crown. Yeah, perhaps. I would think the screw-down crown might even be superfluous at this point.
Everett	Yeah, I think it might be. I think it might be. I think that the screw-down crown is, in terms of static resistance, it is superfluous. It's important. Yeah. I think that it actually, in many situations, doesn't increase your water resistance. What it does is it increases your ability to have incidental contact to the crown and not affect your seals. I don't know that that's changed in this situation. I could be wrong, but I still think you need screw-down ability. Right? Because if you hit that crown, if it's just pressed in, you're not going to have as tight a seal. In this system in particular, you need it to be screwing down.
Andrew	Okay. I want to think more. I want to look at one. We don't have it nearby.
Everett	It doesn't matter. Yeah, no. It's interesting, right? Because every time you look, you know, engineering, good engineering, it's always like, man, this is cool.
Andrew	Good engineering is just underappreciated because if they're doing it right, you never know. You never know. When they're doing it wrong is when you know.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. That's right. And so, I mean, I think that kind of, that's the end of our second act, right? I mean, ultimately, they issue a watch that you know and love is the Vostok Amphibia, which if you own a Vostok Amphibia today, it's virtually the same exact engineering that Belov and Novikov Invented in the 60s, right? Or designed in the 60s.
Andrew	Some of these other companies, other watch factories made their own attempts at them. But none quite as successful. No. Vostok is the one that held on.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. And for all sorts of weird reasons. And certainly there's been plenty of times and opportunities where Vostok could have packed it in. But there they are still cranking out watches.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	Unchanged. Unchanged. I mean, some changes, but for all intents and purposes, it's the same fucking watch.
Andrew	And the Amphibia led to a lot of upgrades of the Komodorsky and others from their line because they applied that same technology. They're like, oh fuck, this is good. That's right. So they started applying it elsewhere.
Everett	And I think that the only other important, really important thing you say about the Amphibia is that it was featured in the Wes Anderson Life of Zissou film. And that's it, right? That's the end of the story. It could be the end of the story. And so if you want to buy if you want to buy a Vostok Amphibia, there's a couple of places. I think Maranom is perhaps the simplest. Maranom, I think, is the official dealer.
Andrew	I don't know that Maranom is the simplest. Well, maybe the simplest, but I think but I do agree. I think they are the official Bok-Tok dealer for the world.
Everett	And I think you and I have both purchased watches. Have you purchased an AM Diver? I've never gotten an AM Diver. I haven't. Okay. Well, so there's also a company called AM Diver. And I think they're loosely affiliated with Marinam. I think there's a relationship there in any event. But that's another place where you can sort of get custom amphibious with machined coin edge bezels that accept standard bezel inserts, or maybe they don't.
Andrew	They don't accept it. It's a closed ecosystem for bezel inserts because you had to file your bezel insert. That's right. So it's just a little bit off, just a little bit off of standard bezel inserts. That's right. Well, actually that's very Russian.
Everett	That's an AM diver bezel. They have two sizes of insert and I got the wrong size of insert. Are you sure? Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. In fact, I talked to the guys at AM Diver and I was like, what's going on here? And he was like, oh, you got the, you got our other sets of insert. I was like, the fuck, man, why would you have two sizes of insert? They've got a Planet Ocean size and more of a standard sort of SKX size. Yeah. But, but the dimension on the SKX insert is not the same as an SKX insert. Correct. But it's the same size.
Andrew	You can get, um, SKX sized bezels for your amphibia. That's right. And that make it universal for. Yeah, those bezel inserts.
Everett	That's right. Murphy makes one.
Andrew	Yeah, there's a good mod world for it. But if you get it from AM Diver, you really don't need to do a mod. Yeah, unless you just order your colors wrong like a dummy.
Unknown	That's right.
Andrew	That's right. There's that. There's that issue.
Everett	That's right. And with that, that's all I've got. Do you got anything else you want to say about the Vostok Amphibia today?
Andrew	No, I think we I think we've created the comprehensive episode on the Amphibia.
Everett	What do you think? Do you think we did good? I think we did pretty OK. Yeah, I think we did okay. I mean, look guys, we did that in approximately 40 minutes.
Andrew	Which is how long it took them to design and produce it. That's right. That's right. We just don't have cocktail napkins. If we did though. Oh man, this would have been a four hour episode and we would have redesigned it. That's the most impressive part about this watch to me. They're like, we have watches. We can buy patents, but we don't do that. We're just going to start from scratch. We know what a watch is. We can get there.
Everett	They did know what a watch was too. Yeah, they did know. Other things?
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	Andrew, what do you got?
Andrew	So, the way I've done some other things before, this is a plea for help. I'm looking at pouring some concrete countertops.
Everett	You know, when you said that, I heard, I'm looking at porn.
Unknown	Yeah.
Everett	some countertops. Okay, go ahead.
Andrew	Does that not something you look up? So I'm looking at pouring some concrete countertops and I have exhausted the YouTube in the way of methods, right? I've looked at doing quick set and building mold outside. I've looked at pouring directly in place and then everywhere in between. And I'm hoping Some of you out there have undertaken this project and are willing to offer some insights. Because what I'm tending towards, what I'm leaning towards is using some quick set mortar mix. Quick mortar? I don't remember the name. It's a little more expensive. It sets in an hour. And that way I can build molds in my backyard. Mix and pour. Set it. Make sure it's good. Then go in and rip out my countertops in my house and then just flip over, drop these new countertops in place. I've seen dozens of videos of it being done, but in videos you don't get the drawbacks or the like, oh, we fucked that up. You don't get those because that's how many times they've done it. They finally made the video on the winner. So if any of you out there have done this or have seen it done or participated in the project, I'm curious what your thoughts are on it. In terms of logistics, the logistics of it, the, the, and, and the overall experience. So, uh, I, I mean, I'm, I know this is a project I'm going to do, and I'm just, I'm, I'm right now on that, on that fork in the road of once I decide I'm going to go concrete, I'm going to pour in place. I'm going to use some sort of reinforcing material, or I'm going to go a quick set mold outdoor and then bring inside. And you're going to epoxy on top of this stuff.
Unknown	Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew	Yeah. So. That's where I'm at, and I'm just, I'm hoping there's someone out there with some insight.
Everett	Yeah, well, I'll say my brain immediately goes to pouring places the wrong approach.
Andrew	Me too, because if you fuck it up, then you don't have counters.
Everett	Yeah, that's right. Well, I also don't think that there's any need. I mean, I think if you're worried about ripping out the countertops, you could always rip them out and put like plywood or something in there, like as a temporary.
Andrew	Yeah, my wife would love that.
Everett	Well, I mean, it's not going to be a long
Andrew	right, a week? That's a long time to have no kitchen.
Everett	Yeah, yeah, but you'd still have a kitchen. You just put some, you just cut, rough cut some plywood and drop it in there. You'll be fine. I don't want to do that.
Andrew	Um, I, I tend to away for, away from pouring place for that reason of, I don't want to, I want it to be like a weekend drinking beer on the back porch and pouring concrete and then an afternoon with no kitchen where I ripped the countertops off and just drop new ones in their place. And I've like, I mean, like I said, I've, I've seen so many videos and so many of people's experiences of, of both formats working really successfully that I don't know which one is better. I am inclined towards the one that's easier, which is some quick set kind of thing.
Everett	Sure. Are there physical limitations to quick set concrete?
Andrew	No, it increases in its PSI hardness up to, I don't remember the numbers exactly, but a fucking bucket load. after an hour. Videos I've watched, there's big ass dudes standing on top of it between two.
Everett	Is it harder to pour?
Andrew	No, it's more expensive. Yeah. It'll be a few hundred dollars. What's the difference in dry time? I mean, an hour versus several. Yeah. I'm inclined towards the hour long dry time. All right. But there's got to be something there. There has to be. I feel like there's something I'm missing. That's way too much easier. for anybody to be doing anything else. Give us your information. Yeah. So let me know if you've done it. And if not, whatever, we'll post some pictures of it when we finally pour them.
Everett	So I've got another thing. Don't care. Cue the music. We, um, we had a potato peeler, the same potato peeler. I don't know what it was. It was a good grips or something. It was fine, but it started to get wonky and eventually broke. I can't remember. It was one of those things. We bought it like Fred Meyer or something, right? It was just like a sort of,
Andrew	Like OXO or Good Grips. I think OXO is Good Grips.
Everett	So, yeah. Right. I mean, it was just... Oh, the head probably fell out. It was an impulse buy and so I needed a potato peeler.
Andrew	Vertical or Y peeler?
Everett	I wanted a Y peeler. I mean, I didn't really know what I wanted.
Andrew	Y peeler is far superior.
Everett	But I was just like, you know, it's one of those stupid things, right? You use a peeler so much. I was like, what's the best peeler you can buy? And in researching peelers, I discovered that the actual Best Peeler is cheap and crappy. Because they come in three pack. They come in a three pack. This is, I'm going to say the name wrong, but it's the Kuhn Recon. Kuhn Recon? Kuhn Recon. Swiss peeler. They come in three packs. I got a red, green and yellow pack. It's cheap. It's plastic. It feels like if you, you know, use this as a lever, it would just snap. The plastic would snap. But in doing reviews, All these professional chefs are like, yeah, these things are awesome. We use them. I've been using the same one since the 90s. In any event, for $13.99, you can get three of them.
Andrew	They have the blade. How does it stay sharp going through peel like that?
Everett	And it's carbon steel. And we ordered these three because I was like, well, shit, just take a flyer. All these professional chefs are saying this is the one. If any one professional chef says, I'm down with this. So we ordered these things. and got them. And I was just still a little skeptical. I was like, this thing looks, it looks hanky. You pull it up, you know, I guess it doesn't look like a, you know, there's some other like, like Good Grips has a couple, there's a couple companies that are always in all the kitchen tool stuff. And they're like, this is good. And those, those companies show up in the best potato peeler, but this one kept showing up. I was like, well, shit, I'll take a flyer for 13 bucks and three peelers. I'll just take a flyer.
Andrew	They're awesome. It catches your eye. Like when the cheapest item on the list that shows up on a couple lists, you know, There's something more here.
Everett	There's something happening here. And it is sort of like, this peeler is like the heart of 40 and 20, right? It's not a watch. But besides that, it's cheap. It's good. It's attractive. It works well. Done, done, done. Done, done, done, done. So we bought these, been using them. You know, a peeler is odd too, right? You think, how often do you use a peeler? We use a peeler three or four times a week, right? Bucket load of vegetables. That's right. We eat a lot of vegetables. Yeah.
Andrew	It's true. I started making zucchini noodles cause I bought them a couple of times. I was like, man, fuck that. That's expensive. Uh, and I've just been using my Y peeler and doing kind of, um, pepper deli style.
Unknown	Oh yeah.
Everett	Zucchini noodles. Good spiralizer too, man. Get a good spiralizer. They're not expensive. No, no. And it's so, it's really satisfying. There's something there. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but anyway, yeah, so these Cooner quant, uh, I'm saying that wrong. They're awesome.
Andrew	America. Well, no, Sweden.
Everett	Uh, yeah, as well as Switzerland. Sweden. That's what I said. Same. I feel that way actually. Yeah, I feel that way.
Andrew	That's all I have, man. That's a good other thing. I'm not going to, cause I'm in the market for a couple of new peelers cause I have vertical. I don't like them. Like the peeler that everyone grew up with, the vertical blade.
Unknown	Yeah, that's what we had before too.
Andrew	I don't like that. I have a Y peeler, but I've used it enough that the head has broken free of the handle. So I have to put my thumb in the bottom of the Y while I use it.
Everett	Yeah, and well, that's the other nice thing about this. If you broke them, it wouldn't be heartbreaking because you got two more in the drawer. You get down to the last one, just order another pack so you got them on standby. Yeah. At $13.99, whatever. I don't think you could ever break all three of them either, based on what, I mean, unless you're really... We'll see. Andrew, you got anything else you want to add before we go? I don't. This was fun. It was fun. Thanks for doing this. My pleasure. Will you think about doing it again next week? Probably not. I think I'm out. Hey, thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast. Check us out on Instagram at 40 in 20 or at the Watch Clicker. Check us out online, watchclicker.com. That is where we post every single episode of the website. It's where we post all of our fantastic reviews, articles, watch clicker recommends, et cetera. If you want to support us, you can check us out on patreon.com slash 40 and 20. That's where we get all the support for the show and the website, including hosting and hardware, et cetera, et cetera. A lot of et cetera. Don't forget to check us out next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Bye bye.
Unknown	Oh