Episode 99 - ISO Watch Standards:What are They?

Published on Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:18:02 -0700

Synopsis

The podcast discusses international standards for water resistance in watches, specifically ISO 6425 for dive watches and ISO 22810 for water-resistant watches. The hosts go into detail about the rigorous testing involved in the ISO 6425 certification, including immersion, condensation, temperature shock, and pressure tests. They also explain that while ISO 22810 provides standards for manufacturers to ensure water resistance, it does not involve external testing like ISO 6425. The hosts discuss the implications of these certifications for watch collectors and manufacturers, suggesting that many microbrand and affordable watches may exceed their stated water resistance ratings without pursuing the costly ISO 6425 certification.

The hosts also share personal stories and tangents, including Andrew's recent purchase of butchering knives, their thoughts on the Oxford cloth button-down shirt, and an anecdote about the celebrity hunter Cam Hanes.

Transcript

Speaker
Andrew Hello, fellow watch lovers, nerds, enthusiasts, or however you identify. This is 40 in 20 Watch Clicker podcast with your host, Andrew and my good friend Everett here. We talk about watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like. Everett, how are you?
Everett I'm well. What was cracking you up there?
Andrew So you went one full notch higher on volume than you usually do for the intro music. And I love messing up the intro because it makes you so mad. And all I wanted to do, I started laughing because I wanted to just say really quietly, it's pretty loud.
Everett You know, it's always too quiet. I always have to adjust the volume up on the intro.
Andrew Good to know. It's not too quiet in my ears. It was pretty loud in my ear holes. I kind of just went for it. But I've also, I've found that I think when I whisper things like that into the microphone, the sound floor grabs it and tears it out. Because when we had Mike on a couple of weeks ago, I whispered a lot of things into the microphone. on listen back a couple times, I haven't been able to find any of them. Interesting.
Everett Yeah. Interesting. I definitely muted some of that.
Andrew You muted most of my dialogue. I've listened to it a couple times like, man, I really felt like I was a part of this conversation.
Everett You know, sometimes, sometimes I have the ability to just mute entire chunks. So if someone's talking over someone else or if they're, you know, if, if you are talking over someone else, you can own that. Yeah, that happens. That happens. I mean, it's it's pretty regular, actually, that we have to just pull out entire chunks. Like when we had Mark last week, you know, we're on Skype. And so it's the talking over each other thing happens.
Andrew Incidentally, it also prioritizes microphones.
Everett Yeah, that's right. That's right. Skype prioritize the microphones. Fortunately, we had audio that we were able to use that didn't that didn't use the Skype software. But still, because we're talking through Skype, it sounds like we're not, but then it actually just sounds like we're talking over each other, versus if it was the Skype recording, there might be some context there. So yeah, I actually wound up muting you a lot. Yeah, we're just a rabble. I use order of precedence, so you're always the first one that gets muted. Duh. And then if we have a guest, that person gets muted next, you know, in order of precedence. I don't get muted all that often.
Andrew And I would say I'd even go one lower than the sound effects. Yeah, no, sound effects.
Everett Sound effects get cut after. Yeah, they definitely take precedence over you. Absolutely.
Andrew I get that. I know where I stand. I know, I know my contribution to the team here. Andrew, how are you? Good. I'm kind of tired of feeling like I've smoked a pack a day. All the time. I don't know if you guys can hear it in our voices, but everyone is raspy in the Pacific Northwest right now. It's brutal. Yeah, it's brutal. Like today I could tell it was supposed to be sunny because it was hot. That was it.
Everett It looks like November. I could tell that it was supposed to be a nice day.
Andrew Yeah. Today would have been a nice day, barring the cloud of smoke that we're living in. I mean, everyone's seen the pictures. They are not exaggerations. They're not edits. They're not so red. That's a little bit of a dramatization after the first day. Yeah, that's right.
Everett It was pretty red the first day and a half, two days.
Andrew Now it just looks like November.
Everett The whole day looks like Misty morning.
Andrew Yeah, that's what it looks. Yeah from like 630 to 830 a.m. November 18th, right? That's our life now, but it's hot. So it's it sucks.
Everett This is what Florida feels like Yeah, super humid really muggy. Yeah, and just shitty.
Andrew That's right. Sorry for you Floridians who haven't left left Who haven't yet abandoned the state that's what I was trying to get but I got stuck Florida man get stuck while recording podcasts So other than that, I mean, pretty normal week, right? You're living that bachelor life.
Everett Yeah. Living the bachelor life. My wife got stuck. My wife and kids got stuck in California, Northern California, um, which some places in Northern California is, is pretty bad where they're at. It's pretty okay. Um, but yeah, they are not technically stuck now. They could get back, but it just seems like a lot to come up through Ashland and Medford when They're on fire. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. No reason to drive through that. Yeah. Kim works remotely. So I just made the decision. Why don't you stay down, get some time with the fam and let the kids have, you know, kids aren't going back in school yet. So it's a little bit of extended summer. I think they're going to come back this next weekend.
Andrew And mostly you needed some time to clean up the disaster of McDonald's wrappers and beer cans.
Everett I didn't need time for that. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I mean, it's, I was saying you came over here and I was like, I'm sorry, the house is a little messy. I'm a bachelor. But I was like, you know what?
Andrew Actually, it looks cleaner than usual. And you know why? It's because there's not the two tiny humans that just throw tornadoes.
Everett That's right. For a guy who has had no responsibility to clean anything for two weeks, I think it's looking pretty OK.
Andrew Yeah, I would even venture to say good.
Everett Hey, you're welcome. So we're talking about watches today.
Andrew Sort of. Sort of. Talk about things about watches. And we should dive into it because we have, we've bitten off quite a bite. You think? I think this is a good, I think this is a, this is going to require some mastication.
Everett So you already know, or you probably already know, unless you're not paying attention.
Andrew No, we've titled it something wholly different this week.
Everett Episode 99. The blue watch. The blue watch. That's right. Blue watches.
Andrew Uh, so today. You know, I suggested red watches because I don't think there are nearly enough red watches.
Everett You know, there are not enough Red Watches. Our good friend, Beau Aggressive Timing Habits, is a big fan of the Red Watch. And so I like to follow his page. And if we were going to talk about Red Watches, I was going to grill him. But instead, we settled on ISO. ISO. ISO? ISO. Well, OK, so we'll get back to that. So the International Federation of the National Standardizing Association was started in 1926. Which is crazy. And ISO has its roots in this International Federation of the National Standardizing Association, acronym ISA, I-S-A. Figure that one out. So ISA did, that's where ISO has its roots in, is ISA. And in 42, ISA was disbanded for somewhat obvious reasons. Why? You know, there was a bit of a skirmish. A scuffle. A scuffle. And so ISA was disbanded. And then in 1946, we've got this newly formed United Nations, and they're setting up committees, and they're trying to think, you know, well, now we're together, what can we do? So United Nations, they set up the Standards Coordinating Committee, the UNSCC.
Andrew To what end? Was this to standardize? Because they didn't fix the metric and imperial systems. That was, that was a bridge too far.
Everett It was certainly a bridge too far. Okay. Yeah. Uh, so the UNSCC, they approach in 1946, they approach the dregs of ISA and they say, Hey, why don't we get this, why don't we get the ship sailing again? And so they meet October, 1946, 25 delegates of the group formerly known as ISA and this UNSCC uh, and sort of make some plans. ISO is formally started a few months later, February of 1947. ISO is founded. So ISO, you'll notice the international organization for standardization, international organization for standardizing objects, standardizing that acronym doesn't line up. No, it doesn't light up. Now, if you go 2. If you go to IZO's website, they'll say, it's not actually an acronym. Rather, what it is, IZO is Greek for equal. And they'll say, we use that word IZO because we don't want to have to worry about having the acronyms be different depending on your language.
Andrew Now, they made that up. They found a good answer.
Everett They made that up. Almost 100%. There's no evidence that they ever discussed that at these original meetings. It's what you might call a backronym.
Andrew Yeah.
Everett It's a backronym. So maybe not true. Kind of a fun story. And in any event, it's what that means today. ISO is Greek for equal. It's not an acronym. Rather, it's a word for the name of the international organization for standardizing. Too easy? Sure. So as you may or may not know, ISO has several products, but their main product is the international standards. They also make a bunch of technical reports, specs, guides, that sort of thing, but their main- All founded around their standardization practices, principles, and whatever. That's right. That's right. And their main product is these international standards. Now this is a set of documents. They're all pay to play. If you want to get the text of any international standard, you've got to go to ISO. You've got to purchase it. Single licensee. Single licensee. Yes.
Andrew Yep. So if we bought it, we couldn't share it with each other.
Everett Or you. Well, I guess we 40 and 20 could buy it. To what end? I don't know. I don't know why we would buy it. I'm just saying we could buy international standards. Yeah, but we could share it. And then we could both share it.
Andrew We could share it with each other. Yeah, but we are an entity. We are one.
Everett That's right. You complete me. Now there are approximately 345,274,438,116 international standards. Plus or minus. I made that number up. Yeah. I totally made that up on the fly. It was incredible. It seemed pretty good. Yeah. So it's not written out on my paper or anything. I just made it up. I just said digits. I liked it.
Andrew Yeah. I mean the fact that you could you could ramble off in sequence. Professional bullshitter.
Everett So there in any event there are a metric fuck ton. A metric fuck ton. There are two main international standards that apply to watches and that there's a bunch actually well so there are but there's also that's why i said main that's why i said main they're the two main standards that apply to water resistance in watches we'll stick with that yeah okay you like that clarification that's important you gave a head nod yeah because there's a resigned head nod yeah because there's like
Andrew We've already talked about ISO standards when it came to shock resistance, and to anti-magnetism, and to off-gassing. They have a standard for everything. That's right. There must be an ISO standard for shoe tying. There just must be. There is. Yeah. I looked it up today. Yeah. It was, oh, like what, 4413 or something like that? It had to be in the early days.
Everett Exactly. 4413, that's right. So two main standards that apply to water resistance in watches. ISO, the one we all know and love, ISO 6425. Dive watches. Which is the standard for dive watches. And then ISO 22810 or 2281, which I see referred to as 2281 sometimes, but 22810 is the standard for water-resistant watches.
Andrew Somebody must have put it in an Excel spreadsheet and didn't round it out to five digits and it just dropped the zero off.
Everett They dropped the zero. That's right. So these are the two main standards and for water-resistant watches. Yes, and these are the two that really we're going to be talking about today. So, starting with 6425. Now, famously, famously, the Seiko SKX is one of the few truly affordable watches, less affordable now than it was two years ago, but one of the few very affordable watches that carries this ISO, ISO, so that's the ISO versus ISO, right? It's a Greek word, not a, right? Uh, so the SKX007, you know, 009, that full line of SKX watches all carry this ISO 64 standard for dive watches. Whereas the Mako, um, and any number of micro brands or dive watches that you can find in the market don't. And if they do, they're going to tell you because ISO 6425 testing is something you have to pay for. You have to have performed and you have to pay for it. Every single watch that says the word diver's watch is subject to some portion of the testing. It's not sample. It's not type testing. It's the whole batch. Every single one of these. Now, the ISO 6425 standard is a lot of stuff, right?
Andrew Yeah. Oh, it is an incredible amount of testing just for the water resistance. Within that, there's also additional ISO testing for magnetism and temperature. ISO 764. And for temperature resistance, all these other tests.
Everett Shock resistance, ISO 1413.
Andrew That all, is it really 1413? It is. I've got it written down here. All these other tests that have to be done encompassing this water resistant test. And it is rigorous. It's like a destruction test. It gave me all kinds of new hope for the things that I could do to my watches.
Everett Well, so why don't we talk a little bit about what it is.
Andrew So it's not just, hey, we submerge it. It's hours in pressure chambers and then temperature changes and then condensation tests on the dials. And I didn't write down the full details of it. Just run through one.
Everett Yeah. So for 6425, the main requirements, it's got to have 100 meters of water resistance. Yep. 100 meters. Not 200. Nope. 100 meters of water resistance. It's got to have a time pre-selecting device with increments of time.
Andrew So this is where the friction bezel went away, was with ISO testing. So it has to be a time-selecting device with five-minute intervals that can be manipulated, that locks in place, but is not... It's protected. It's protected. The wording is not subject to
Everett accidental actuation or something some kind of like antiquated language like that where it has to lock in place has to be deliberately manipulated to adjust so that's where the friction bezel went this answer my question yes yes so uh and it doesn't have to be a bezel it's either got to be a protected bezel or a digital timer it's got a time up to an hour with five minute increments uh must also meet standards for anti-mag and shock resistance which we discussed too It's got to do a thermal shock test. And I've dubbed this thermal shock test as the hot tub slash ice water test.
Andrew Yeah.
Everett Where it's induced at 40 to 45 Celsius. I think 45 Celsius is about 113 degrees Fahrenheit. I think it was 40 to 50. It was a 50 degree Celsius jump to a 40 degree Celsius. Yeah. 45 to 13, I think, is what they want.
Andrew 13 is pretty chilly. It's not ice water, but it's pretty chilly. It's real fucking cold.
Everett Um, it's got to do, uh, an immersion test. The immersion test is minimum of a hundred meters of water resistance for an hour. Um, it's got followed by a condensation test. The condensation test, I thought this was the most interesting thing and it was the thing that I had never really considered. Now the immersion test is the only one that every single watch needs to do. So that is at 10 bar for an hour. Every single SKX007 is tested at 10 bar for an hour.
Andrew And then they drip some water on the crystal. Right.
Everett And then they drop, drop, drop. And then they do this thing called a condensation test. Now, this condensation test is sampled. All the rest of these tests, besides the immersion test, are what we call type testing. And there's an ISO standard for that, too. I think it's... Shocking. 28590 for type testing, which is... This is a self-licking ice cream cone.
Andrew so um but the immersion test every watch now the condensation test right uh that's the one i thought was the most fascinating what is that when you when you read about that what does that look like to you so i had to read it a bunch of times and i'm still not fully confident that i understand it sure so what i'm imagining is they have this this batch of watches that have just all come out of their little 10 bar pressure chambers and they pick their random sample and they put them all out on a belt pop the pressure chambers and then what it sounded like what it sounded like to me was they get first a visual examination to see if any condensation has built up because part of that 10 bar it's also at a certain temperature so when it's reintroduced to the ambient temperature you're going to potentially see condensation but then they quickly cool the crystal with some with the application of more water? Is that what, that's what I gleaned from it, right?
Everett You know, I couldn't tell if it was the crystal or if it was the glass plate that the watch sits on. So they take a, so they take a glass plate and they heat it up pretty warm, 115 degrees or so, not quite that high. Uh, and then they put water either on the crystal of the watch, colder water, much colder water, either on the crystal of the watch or on the glass of the plate. And I was not able to glean that information.
Andrew So it seemed to me like it's going on the crystal because otherwise how else would the, would the condensation form on the inside of the crystal for system failure?
Everett Yeah, I wasn't sure. I think maybe it's if it comes up into the watch from underneath.
Andrew But then you'd have to get that cooling of the crystal for the condensation.
Everett It's an interesting question and I'd like to see this happen. I'd like to see this conducted because I'm not sure. I don't know.
Andrew Teach me. So regardless of how they do it, I don't know, it's some sorcery. They do some temperature changes, add some more moisture, And if there's condensation on the inside of that crystal, that's a system failure. Boom, didn't make it.
Everett Does the whole lot fail? I think just that watch fails. But maybe the whole lot because we're doing time testing at this point.
Andrew So I feel like the whole lot would fail. Now, the problem with that test is that if it's not being made, if that watch wasn't produced in a super controlled manufacturing environment, and maybe say the humidity was a little higher on the manufacturing floor that day, you're going to get a false failure. You're going to show less water resistance because of the moisture that's already inside that watch as a result of the humidity, however slight, will be affected and condense by these drastic temperature changes.
Everett So say for instance, you're making watches in the Philippines. I don't know who would do that. Say for instance, you're making watches in the Philippines in a high humidity environment. That's something you're going to have to control for in the manufacturing process.
Andrew if you want to achieve this ISO certification. That's right. Which, if we're being honest here, I don't know that it's worth it. It sounds like such a nut roll. It makes watches that have it cooler to me. Yeah. Because they've been basically beat down with a hammer. Yeah.
Everett I mean, it is really cool. You know, reading about this stuff, it is really cool. But do you need it?
Andrew You know, I think there's an argument for yes. And so let's continue. Can we talk about the other
Everett tests that yes so let's let's finish up with 6425 here because we're almost done we're almost done so so we've got the we've also in addition to things we've talked about we've also got the overpressure tests which is 10 bar for two hours and five newtons of pressure directed at the crown i don't know what that looks like um and then we've got immersion tests which is i punch four newtons of pressure just with a single impact is that true i have no idea i don't know what a newton is is translated into pressure yeah it's
Andrew again, sorcery, but again, five newtons of pressure applied directly to the crown while under pressure.
Everett That's right. For time. Yes. For time. And then the immersion test, which is the watch is basically sat in 30 centimeters of water for 50 hours. And then the salt corrosion test, which is a 24 hour immersion in salt water, which is really not to check water resistance, but to check its ability to resist corrosion. Salt corrosion. Exactly. Every single watch does the two-hour test, the 100-bar two-hour test. The rest of the tests are type testing, just to make that clear. So you have to pay to get a 6425 certification. That's the biggest differentiator between 6425 and 22810. Because 22810 is not a test that you do, but rather it's a standard for how a manufacturer needs to make sure their watches meet the water-resistant standard. Yeah. So all watches, right? I understand this to say all watches bearing the word water-resistant that are sold in any member country, which 162 nations. It's all of them guys. I mean look at the map. It is almost every single country on Earth, China, Russia. It's everything. It's not Greenland doesn't isn't isn't a member country. They're not doing a lot of watchmaking. I don't think Greenland's not You know, there's a few countries, I mean, very few though. Very, very few. This looks like Donald Trump's red map, right? They're all, every single place is a participating country. So, if you, basically, if you have a watch that says water resistant, theoretically, it complies with 22810. I would hope so.
Andrew I don't know how it would Arguably. Because 22810 sets out the standards, not just for achieving it, but how to test it. And why lie? Why say it's got 30 meters of water resistance? People still buy watches with no water resistance, which does make me question how you're getting foggy khakis. Not you in particular, but.
Everett I get foggy khakis because I'm just kind of a swamp. I'm a swamp body.
Andrew You have not failed the humidity test.
Everett Foggy dockers. It happens every time.
Andrew But it makes me wonder, these watches say they have 30 meters of water resistance, the people say they fog in the shower. Getting more acquainted with 22810 has made me much more confident in the water resistance of all of my watches.
Everett So on a general level, tell me what 22810 is.
Andrew 22810 lines out what it means to be water resistant. All the steps that a manufacturer has to take for the manufacturer of the watch to make it water resistant. These are the things you need to do. Then it lines out how you test these watches for their water resistance capabilities and presents basically the sliding scale of if it achieves this, then this. And it's what it, what it says to me is it, and from my understanding, it's not the, it's where the first one fails, not necessarily the batch. Like the technology says it should, it should achieve this, but you have to reduce to the lower level. If I, if I understood it correctly, I may not.
Everett I think that is part of it, right? So again, this is not a test. You don't pay someone to do your ISO 22810 certification. No. This just says, if you're going to put water resistant to X meters, X atmospheres, this is what you have to do to ensure compliance with our international standards. With the international standards, in order to sell a watch that says water resistant, this is what you have to do. Because of the nature, this is sort of self-correct, self-test your own work, right? Or self-check your work. I think that there's lots of room for play, and I'm sure this gets fudged. I'm going to bring an important caveat here.
Andrew Please. 2010 and newer is where this really applies. Anything pre-2010, you're on your own. Post-2010 production, this is where you're going to see 22810 in effect. lot more reliable.
Everett Yeah, and it's not that 22810 didn't exist before 2010. It did exist, it was just not, it didn't have the same standards, it hadn't been revised, and it wasn't really a thing that companies had to think about. Yeah. So, but starting in 2010, 22810 is really an important component of making a watch that says water-resistant.
Andrew I wonder if that has to do with seeing a increase in boutique and micro brands who wanted to achieve water resistance, but weren't going to drop the money for the official ISO testing?
Everett You know, it's interesting. It's an interesting thought because I don't know the answer. Um, well, it's not interesting because I don't know the answer. I don't know the answer and it is still interesting. Um, not withstanding that. Yeah. I think that that's possibility, right? You're seeing a proliferation of watch companies starting around 2010.
Andrew And before, certainly, but you're seeing a much, a larger growth and imagining you're going to see far more manufacturers. So a little bit of a siloing of manufacturers who are reaching out to organizations to certify these products and coming back to the brand and being like, Hey, it's going to be 50 grand. I'm like, no, no, let's, let's, let's dial it back and let's do something a little bit more reasonable here. So these manufacturers are having to work with this international standardization organization to refine the process and say, okay, this is what we want to achieve. What do we need to do?
Everett Excuse me, international organization of standardizing. I just wanted to make sure we get it right.
Andrew I'm leaving.
Everett So the manufacturer chooses the testing procedures. There is a certain amount of room for the manufacturer to be able to choose how to do the tests. With that said, It's essentially the same fucking thing.
Andrew Yes, but it's not being overseen or conducted. I wonder if you could hire somebody from ISA to just be on staff and just supervise your testing, if that would be sufficient.
Everett Yeah, I don't know. I don't think you need to do that.
Andrew I think that you... No, to achieve your ISA certification. Your 6425? Yeah, your 6425 certification.
Everett Yeah, I don't know how that works. And in fact, there is a very... So, a quick aside. is a very interesting post on the watch you seek dive watch forum subforum uh that got posted i think four days ago today so by the time you're listening to this about a week ago chris veil doc veil of nth watches uh posted on the dive watch forum basically a thread saying hey i make dive watches and i think i make pretty serious dive watches my my sub line is this and that furthermore i just reintroduced the devil ray which is a no shit kick-ass diver i feel like i'm having trouble connecting with the hardcore dive watch enthusiast and i don't know why and i'm asking you dive watch sub forum what am i doing wrong and this thread is already as of today 15 pages long 16 pages long and and it just seemed to be Every time I sort of clicked next page, it seemed like there was 13 more pages.
Andrew What the fuck? How many of them are neckbeards? I'm wondering, like, how many people are trying to, like, just take a stab at Doc Vale at a distance to be like, if it was $400, I'd buy it.
Everett Yeah, well, there is a lot of that, actually, as you might expect. And I think that's OK. I mean, he's obviously asking the question. And so he's going to elicit opinions, right? Why aren't you buying my watches? Yeah, that's right. And so all of the answers, theoretically, are valid. Yeah. Every answer, neckbeard answer, it doesn't matter. Every answer is theoretically valid.
Andrew Oh, I'd own this whole line if they were only $400.
Everett But at one point, probably not, well, I can almost guarantee that it wasn't more than five or six pages in. That's as far as you got? The ISO 6425 standard gets brought up, and he addressed it directly. It was one of his first few sort of addressing questions directly, and he says, I don't see the benefit to it. I know my testing is every bit as good as 6425 testing. And so I haven't seen value in that, but maybe there's value. Now, I'll say for my part, I don't think that's the issue.
Andrew No, that's not the selling point. No divers there are looking at their watch and like, it's not 6425, you know?
Everett So I don't think that's the issue. But the fact that it came up and the fact that he says, look, this is maybe something I need to look at. I don't know how much it costs. I assume it's extremely fiscally cumbersome. And I, Everett, assume that it would make the cost of the watches a lot more, you know. An nth sub. I would hope so. An nth sub is already, I think, a $750 watch-ish.
Andrew So I imagine a 20% increase. Easily.
Everett For that certification. Easily, if not more, right? If not more. So there is something to be said for that type of bona fides, but I don't think, I mean, I don't think that's the answer to this question, but it's part of the conversation. At the very least, it's something that people are thinking about.
Andrew Do you think it's something people are thinking about because it's something they want to be thinking about in that moment? Like they're just, they're, they're grasping at straws for why?
Everett Yeah, perhaps.
Andrew Because I guarantee you the person that didn't buy one of his subs or one of his diapers, didn't do it because it wasn't $64.25.
Everett Yeah, no, that's right. I mean, I've got my own thoughts about why Enth watches, which I think are actually probably really good watches, why Enth, at least there's a perception that Enth struggles in the microgram market where other watches have really thrived. I don't think there's anything I can point to about the watch itself that would lead me to believe it's not a fantastic watch. I think there's some marketing things and, and you know, if I'd be happy to talk about this with anybody who wanted to talk about it, I don't think it's appropriate for today's conversation, but yeah, there's, I don't think it's this, but you had said before we started, the thing I'm most excited about talking about today is what all of this, what this ISO 6425 and 22810, um, standardizing standards, what these standards mean for us as watch collectors. I think it's a really natural way to segue into that.
Andrew Because we talk about all the time.
Everett I have to say it's a natural way to segue because it's so unnatural that I feel like. Yeah. This is awkward. So I'm going to call it a natural segue.
Andrew Yeah. This is a clean turning point. We've gone too far. Here's the cliff. We can jump or we can turn around. Let's turn. Let's turn. Turn. And I think what it comes down to is is we we've talked about water resistance a lot. A lot. A lot. And all watch people do. Yeah. We all we one of the It's probably the second or third thing you mention, I mention, you mention, we all mention when we're talking about any watch. Here's the dimensions. Here's the water resistance.
Everett Yeah. Yeah. I would say you maybe, you maybe mentioned style, right? So it's a, it's a 40 millimeter Flieger with a hundred meters of water resistance. Ooh, where? Exactly.
Andrew I'm intrigued.
Everett It's a 6425. Certified fleeker.
Andrew Oh, that sounds like some Gavox shit.
Everett Michael Happy, I hope you're listening.
Andrew But that's what it's so important. And we've talked about this before. Every single one of my well, only one watch that I own doesn't have more water resistance than I as a human do. Wait, wait, wait, what? There's only I only own one watch that doesn't have more water resistance than I, Andrew, do. OK. It's a dress watch. It has none water resistance. Oh, OK.
Everett It's maybe, it wasn't a double negative, but it was like... That's what I'm getting at. Contextually, maybe the double negative was having trouble sussing out the meaning. Okay. It's, you've got that commanderski. I'm really leaving.
Andrew I think that has 30 meters.
Everett Yeah. Maybe 50. Yeah. I thought it was like none water resistance. Maybe it's only 10 meters.
Andrew I don't recall. It doesn't matter. What it comes down to is that almost all of my watches have more water resistance than the human body.
Everett You know, another aside, ISO recognizes three languages, uses and recognizes three language, French, Russian, and English.
Andrew Interesting. They don't recognize Mandarin.
Everett Yeah. Yeah. I thought the same thing. Or British. Yeah. Did we say that ISO is headquartered in Geneva? We didn't. We did.
Andrew We forgot to mention that, but it's not shocking.
Everett Because we're all right. Yeah.
Andrew Okay. And what a weird organization that they have so much time to just standardize shit that we're talking about water-resistant standardization for wristwatches. Yeah, I mean, I think that they have... I mean, it's a manufactured product, so I can kind of dig it, but there has got to be ISO requirements for cans of beer.
Everett I think that they have over 100,000 technical specialists that are contributors to the ISO standards. I wish I was smarter.
Andrew Andrew, do you want to be on an ISO committee?
Everett You should start an ISO standard for sous vide. You should just write them and be like, I'd like to be part of this standard. I'm an expert because I've sous vide some things and I watch every video that Google guy makes.
Andrew I watch a lot of sous vide videos. Let's do it. I do some sous vide-ing too. I think it's the verb.
Everett I was sous-viding earlier. Let's do it. Shall we? Isn't that guy Guga?
Andrew Ah, shut the fuck up. Okay. So what it comes, what it comes down to is that we piss and moan about water resistance for no reason. And then we start looking at watches that have, that are just wildly overbuilt. And I'm thinking the, the thousand meter Seiko. Sure. Sure. That got stress tested and failed at 3000 meters. Right. Or like a Raven Deep Tech or any of these uber... Or Michael Happy's watches that were rated for three and failed at nine. Yeah, or whatever, right?
Everett I still remember the glee on his face as he told us that story.
Andrew I'd like to just listen to his memoirs. I want him to write them and then read them, but like video read them.
Everett If you guys have never seen a video of Michael Happy talking about watches... Or anything! He is just, I mean, the second he opens his mouth, he emanates straight glee.
Andrew Yes. I want to see him talk about something sad. I bet it would be the same thing. I do too. That's why I think it'd be so weird. You'd be like laughing, but crying. So what we're getting at is how, how do these ISO ratings, number one, how does the actual ISO certification, ISO, ISO, what are we saying? ISO. Okay. How does the Lizzo certification... How does it, or does it, affect us? It doesn't, for me, have any bearing on whether or not I'm gonna make a purchase. Well, no.
Everett I mean, you mean, you're referring specifically to 6425 now?
Andrew Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because water resistance has a bearing on whether or not I'm gonna make a purchase.
Everett Sure. So, I mean, I think that that's the bigger context, right? We've got these two standards. They both And we should say, we sort of, we insinuated the 22, 8, 1, 0 are the same standards as 64, 25. And they're not. All of the standards are relaxed. Yes. So they have to do the same tests. They have to do the condensation test. They have to do the stress test, the thermo. They've got to do shock anti-mag testing still, but they're significantly reduced metrics.
Andrew Do you think that causes smaller companies to test to a higher standard and underrate their watches?
Everett Yeah, well, I think that's right. I think that's exactly right. I think a company like Enth, I think Chris Vail is, you know, he's saying publicly, I know my watches can pass. We test our watches and I know my watches can more than pass any of these standards. And I believe him, right? There's no reason in today, in a modern micro brand world, this world that we live in, to suspect that they wouldn't, right?
Andrew So it's easier than for a company to to shave 100 meters off their water resistance rating than to buy the credential. So I think that that's probably the world we live in. Yeah, I think I think for for micrograms specifically, I think we're probably looking at 100 meter reduction generally, like for dive style watches, probably 100 meter reduction. in exchange for not buying the cred.
Everett And so even with the ISO standard, with the 6425 standard, we know that the requirements are all being met by the manufacturers at about 110 to 125%. So we know that they're internally subjecting... Unless it's Seiko, then it's about 400%. Right. I think Rolex and Seiko are both aiming for 125% minimum. You know, I think if you're Chris Vale or if you're Wesson Cullen at Notice, or if you're, if you're one of these guys who is making, you know, I know that Nick from Orion is very serious about this stuff, right? I know if you're one of these guys making a watch and you're putting a number on it, you're really fucking sure that that number is accurate, which means the actual number is way higher, way higher.
Andrew How much, how much higher do you think? I'm, I'm thinking double.
Everett I think between 50% and double at, at, at, in most instances, we're going to see 150 to 200% of actual ability to resist water. That's my guess. And, and it's, you know, that's not going to be true for Overwatch, but.
Andrew No. And, and that's sort of the nature of not getting the certification is you can't test every piece isn't tested to meet the QC. Because that's that in and of itself, it's going through all the other QC and then the water resistance stress tests.
Everett You know, I think the most interesting part about 22810, maybe not the most interesting part, but one of the interesting parts is that 22810 requires the manufacturers, the sellers, to include a statement that says you have to maintain this watch. Yep. In order to keep the water resistance, that we've specified this to, you've got to maintain this watch, which means, you know, practically, pragmatically speaking, it means, you know, changing your gaskets at an interval and, and lubing your gaskets. And if you're, you know, we talked mostly today about the mechanical standards for, for watches. There's a slightly revised standard for quartz watches, which includes, you know, um, uh, battery end of life.
Andrew Um, but, but they're basically the same, but the end of life is important because the last year you're, Battery acid eating the inside of your watch is going to greatly reduce its water resistance. That's right. Also functionality.
Everett So, you know, 22810 requires manufacturers to tell the consumer, hey, you've got to maintain this. This is not... You bought this. Now it's your problem. This is not a permanent condition. And without your maintenance, this condition evaporates.
Andrew So do you think that it would be beneficial to store water resistant watches in an inch of water to keep the gaskets wet. I do not think that. I do not think. Okay. You know, you just hot take. Oh man.
Everett How about Vaseline? I feel like in 25 words, you've totally derailed the show. I guess that's kind of it, right? I mean, bigger picture is if you buy a watch that says water resistant on it, It's theoretically been subjected to some pretty rigorous standards. And if you want the $64.25 watch, and I think that there's some intangible street cred that I'm okay with.
Andrew There's something really cool about a $200 watch with a $64.25 certification. That's right. It gets less cool with every $100 you spend. Right. Because it sort of becomes an expectation. Yeah, that's right. If you're going to buy a dive watch at, I'd say, north of $500, you sort of want that. Yeah, maybe, maybe not, right?
Everett You want that guarantee, but I'm not, I don't think... Would you rather pay, sorry, would you rather pay for a 6525, 6425 certification or for Zoratu polishing?
Andrew What would you rather pay for? I'd rather pay for the polishing, but have the 6425 qualification. But, but like I said, it's not going to, it's not going to affect my purchase of a watch. Yeah. Because I know I'm never going to buy a dive watch for the purpose of diving in it. I'm gonna get into a pool up to my nipples. And that's about as deep as I need to go. I've been snorkeling, I didn't like it. Sharks and shit.
Everett Well, and so it's important, right, there's some context here that's important. So PADI, when they certify divers, I think they certify divers to about 60 feet.
Andrew It's less than 40 meters.
Everett And if you do the like open water advanced PADI certification, it's like 130 feet. 40 meters is like 40 meters. I think it's 130 feet. So the advanced open water certification from Patty is less than 40 meters. Yeah. So your hundred meter watch is probably okay.
Andrew I'm a pro.
Everett I'm a bell diver where the helmet and everything, you know, I really like Jason Heaton. I sort of cut my teeth on the gray NATO, uh, amongst others, but, but right. The gray NATO was one of the places that I was really comfortable with when I started collecting watches because, you know, Jason, in particular, Jason Heaton's tone and demeanor is just wonderful, right? And Jason Heaton is a big proponent of 100 meters is enough. And he's a real fucking diver. Like not, not, oh, I got my certification when I was in Mexico that summer. He's a real diver. Yeah, he does that. He does that. That's right. Uh, he's a big proponent of a hundred meters and he thinks that the water resistance arms race is maybe a little overblown. I'm, I'm putting words in his mouth and I maybe shouldn't be, but that's my, that's my take from his discussions on the topic. And I think that for good reason, you know, we have here formally and informally, casually, but also formally with our objective watch ratings. done sort of the same thing right there's a reason that you can't score more than 11 on water resistance you get 10 for 100 meters and for anything over 100 meters you get one point whether it's whether it's 150 a thousand or a thousand you get one extra point for that and that's it there is something to be said for not over building everything
Andrew No, because when you start to get to the thousand meters of water resistance, you're also getting 20 millimeter thick watches. That's right. And as fun as it is to look like you're in Star Trek and have some like communicator on your wrist, it's not a comfortable watch to wear unless you want to look like Popeye.
Everett So that said, hey, you know, we've been doing these. I'm going to call them stuff you should do episodes. OK, although we can't do that.
Andrew We're going to have to edit that out.
Everett But to the extent that we're doing these episodes, what do you guys think? Do you guys like this? I think you do, and we've gotten some positive feedback. But to that end, what do you think? And what topics do you want us to talk about? Because we'll talk about topics. This is fun. I really enjoy this type of episode.
Andrew I like getting smarter. I also like getting more comfortable with my water resistance. Yeah, that's right. Because now I'm not concerned about the sarb in the water. I never, I wasn't before.
Everett Wear that thing in the hot tub, man.
Andrew I don't, I don't do hot tubs. I get too hot. Unless it's snowy outside and then hot tubs. Because you start off so hot. I do. Nothing beats a hot tub in the snow. Other things, ready go. Hot tubs in the snow. That's amazing.
Everett That was freestyle.
Andrew It was.
Everett Yeah, that was.
Andrew Because you can put your beer in the snow bank and then your beer stays ice cold. You're way too hot, but you have your cold beer.
Everett It's delightful. I don't think that that segue was improper or unwarranted. However, other things Andrew go.
Andrew Okay. So I made a couple of purchases in the last couple of weeks. You make so many purchases. I, you know, I, I, I spend a lot of money going into hunting season because every, besides watches, like hunting is sort of the other thing that I spend money on. That is your other thing, hunting. Yeah. Um, so every year I buy like new stuff or I upgrade things. And this year, I decided to upgrade my butchering kit.
Everett Can we talk for a second that you're on a pro team? You're like on a hunting pro team. I am not. You're not?
Andrew Oh, that's a... Well, I sort of... Okay, I am a little bit, yes. But it's not like a super selective exclusive thing. It's because I'm a type of person who puts gear through the ringer and they're like, hey, you know what good gear feels like and what it doesn't feel like. I don't care how selective it is.
Everett It's awesome that you're a professional hunter.
Andrew I mean, I pay them money still. I just, I just pay them probably not even cost. Okay. Probably still more than cost regardless. I, I, yeah. So I, I have a, not even, it doesn't matter. I get discounts on hunting clothes and not it's fucking whatever.
Everett Do you want me to cut this out?
Andrew You're so uncomfortable. You're red in the face. I don't know. It doesn't matter. So I, every, I upgraded my butcher kit this year with some
Everett Sanisafe knives. The anticipation on that was perfect. Timing was great. Some Dexter Russell Sanisafes. Not, not Dexter Russell's first appearance on things. No.
Andrew And, and it's, and it's for, for a reason. So I have been watching a lot of commercial butchering shows. As you do. Who doesn't? Um, I don't know. Maybe that makes me, it's not weird. It's cool. It's, we talked about it last week. Um, so with that, I noticed a couple tools that I have just kind of done without. I've never had a boning knife, and I've never had a butcher's knife. I've always made do with paring knives and chef's knives. So this year, for the total cost of like $40, I got a Dexter Russell 6-inch boning knife and a Dexter Russell 8-inch butcher's knife. And they're great. I've used them in the kitchen a couple times. I mean totally not to their application, just like doing normal kitchen shit. Right. Because I got them in the mail. I was like, oh my god, what do I do? What do I do? I gotta cut something. I gotta cut something. I gotta cut something. I was like, I'll make a salad. And I start dicing up vegetables and shit. But they're everything that you know and love from Dexter Russell SaniSafe tools.
Everett Yeah.
Andrew They've got that big ass comfortable grip. Not my style for a chef's knife, but for a full purchase like really get a hold of it blade it's perfect they're easy to clean they're sharp right out of the package and the steel is great and the steel is great easy to keep them sharp easy to keep them sharp easy to hone them they're terrific if you guys if so if you're not dexter russell chef's knives people cool they have an enormous line of other knives if nothing else take up fishing and get a dexter russell or a mora
Everett Yeah, I think that's the big question, right? Dexter Russell, for me, Dexter Russell or Mora.
Andrew Yeah, they're probably within five dollars of each other. Yeah, Mora's are probably a little cheaper, but and arguably cooler, cooler. Yeah, you're going to you're going to get something cooler.
Everett Yeah.
Andrew But you also can't like go down to cash and carry and pick one up. That's like the food and stuff. But you can get them on the Amazon. They're like 20 bucks a piece. Check them out. I I'm really excited to test mine on. several hundred pounds of meat and see how they hold up.
Everett I'm excited for you to get an elk this year.
Andrew This is the year.
Everett This is the year. Yeah. I've been watching Cam Haines. Cam Haines, a Lane County celebrity.
Andrew He's a national celebrity. He's a two sport. He's like one of three two sport Under Armour athletes.
Everett He's, I say a Lane County celebrity because he lives you know, approximately 15 minutes from Andrew and I. But he does. He's a I have some trouble. I have some trouble endorsing him fully. With that said, he's this ultra marathon running. He's a freak. He's a freak. So the guy is not young. No, he's not young. 50s at least. I'd say I'd say he's approaching 60. He's got that old. His son is an adult. I know that much.
Andrew But they're younger. They're like in their 20s. Young adult, early 20s.
Everett He looks like a fucking men's fitness model. He is a men's fitness model. Men's health model, like a cover model. And I see this guy. I run around Eugene. I run over 1,000 miles a year. 1,500 miles last year is what I estimate. That's awful. And so I'll see this guy running. I'm like the fat old guy running. This guy is running 630 miles. 630 pace for like 15 to 20 miles.
Andrew He runs marathons on his lunch break.
Everett He does do that. That's real talk. He's a stud. You know, we, I ran, we've got a 4th of July race here in town called the Butte to Butte. It's a 10k. Butte to Butte. The Butte to Butte. You run up the first mile. I think you gain probably eight. I think it's a thousand feet. Is it?
Andrew I don't think
Everett It's a it's neighborhood. It's a big climb. The first mile you climb and then you come back down that hill and you finish the last like four miles on flat. But it's a it's a really hard run. It's a really hard 10k. And I had a goal two years ago, I think, to run it in 42. And I felt just short. I wanted to be sub 42 and I felt just short of that. This motherfucker runs it in like 38 30 at 57 years old or whatever the hell he is. And I remember seeing him at the start line, and I was like, I'm going to try to tag on to Cam Haynes. There's no chance. He cooked out, and he's with the elite guys, right?
Andrew He's phenomenal. One thing, and Cam, if you listen, I'm not apologetic for this. So he knows he's a low-level celebrity, but he's a celebrity amongst a really niche group of people, either ultramarathoners or hunters. And there's an intersection of those two. types of people in like the last five years because hunting has seen a resurgence in young people who are looking for sustainable meat practices. I saw him at an airport and I'm sitting at the bar at like 9am and he's eating breakfast and I'm boozing because I'm at an airport at 9am, what else are you going to do? And I look at him and I'm like, man, I fucking know that guy. And it's not our local airport. It's a, it's a large international airport. And I look at him like, man, I know that guy, but why do I know that guy? And I kind of stare at him and I don't care if I'm not the type of person who cares if people notice that I'm staring. I just continue to, I just like you mind your business. You happen to be my business. I'm watching you. So I'm going to mind my business right now and I'm looking at you. Uh, I'm not, I don't like do the awkward. Oh God, they saw me. No, I just keep looking. Can I make it awkward for them? Um, hot take. That's the strategy. Uh, if they catch you staring, just continue and they'll look away and you can continue So anyway, I'm staring at him. He looks at me and he kind of looks back down on his breakfast and I'm like, gotcha bitch. But who are you? Like, what? Maybe I just, maybe he's just a familiar looking dude. And then he turned enough and I saw the logo on his hat and he looked back up at me and he gave me that like upward head nod like, what's up?
Everett And I was like, oh, it's Cam Ains.
Andrew Oh, that was kind of a weird way to handle that Cam. And he walked up, he didn't acknowledge me. I continued to stare at him as he walked away, like just to kind of maybe force him to be like, hey dude. I'm Cam Hance. I'm like, I'm assuming you're either A, a weirdo, not wrong. True. Or B, a fan. Nice to meet you. Both things true. Nope. As he walked by, he gave me another little upward, what's up, and just strolled by. Like those were his acknowledgments, I mean, and as he walked away, I was like, oh, that's Cam. Oh. Huh. Huh. I don't like the way he handled that.
Everett Yeah, well, you know, I think being a celebrity is very difficult. You know, we were celebrities. Everett, we run into that all the time. We do people recognize us in airports. It's really awkward. Yeah, I will say if you if you don't know who campaigns is, he did one of these GQ YouTube videos that's like, this expert on this subject reviews these movie scenes. He did Rambo, didn't he? He did Rambo, yeah. So it was like archery scenes from movies. I remember that, yeah. Because he's a professional bow hunter.
Andrew And he's probably an Olympic caliber archer.
Everett Yeah, I think that's probably right. I mean, he really puts in the work. I don't think he's ever competed at that level.
Andrew I mean, he does by shooting animals 100 yards away. That's right. My comfortable range is about 35 yards. Cam's like, 112. Gotcha.
Everett That's right. So if you want an introduction, we'll drop a link in the show notes. Andrew, good luck finding it. But Cam Haines doing, you know, archery scenes for movies. So I have another thing.
Andrew He's also on Rogan. He's got like three Rogan episodes.
Everett Yeah, I think him and Joe Rogan are homies.
Andrew They are.
Everett Yeah, they hunt together. Oh yeah, there's a video of him and Joe Rogan hunting together. Yeah.
Andrew Rogan, I think Cam is actually who got Rogan into hunting.
Everett Yeah.
Andrew And now Rogan's like this I mean, he's a huge hunter and is connected with some of the biggest hunting personalities in America. Joe Rogan is such an enigma, man. He doesn't make any sense. I love him. I'd let him talk to me for three hours. I mean, I often have. I'd love to do an Andrew episode, but I won't talk. I promise, Joe. I promise I won't say a fucking word. I'll just let you do your thing. Yeah, just talk to me.
Everett Yeah. Well, so your other thing.
Andrew Oh, yeah. It was a six-inch Dexter Russell boning knife and an eight-inch butcher's knife, and I cannot wait to put them to meat.
Everett And also Cam Haines. So I've got another thing. My other thing's a little weird because it's maybe not just a product, although it's something that I will make a recommendation on.
Andrew Body Glide. Everett's Legs Chafe. And it's basically a deodorant lube stick. And I will tell ya, as another thunder-thighed individual, Body Glide, Everett, you could not have made a better pick this week.
Everett So my other thing. It's a good one, man. We should talk about it at some point. I use this shit. I go through like a stick of Bodyglide every month. So my other thing is the Oxford cloth button down shirt. Oh, we're gonna do this, huh? It's time. Okay. The OCBD, as it were, in the common parlance. Yeah. The Oxford cloth button down shirt. So I am a guy who wears a shirt with buttons on it nearly every day. Nearly every day. I wear pants with buttons on it every day. Now, You will oftentimes hear people refer to a dress shirt as a button-down shirt. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. So there is a button-up shirt. That is a shirt that has buttons on the front. And there is a button-down shirt, and that is a shirt that has buttons on the points of the collar, where you can secure the points of the collar to the shirt itself.
Andrew And that's not a dress shirt. That's a sport shirt. That's right. That originated from polo, so people weren't losing their fucking tie while they were riding around on horseback. I'm not going to take your other thing, but this is something that gets me fired up. When I see a person in a suit in court with a button down, it bothers me a little bit.
Everett I wear a button down in court like a motherfucker.
Andrew But you're an attorney, and you know better. That's the thing. You know better. I know better, and I still do it. It's a choice. It's not just like, oh, this works. Yeah, that's right.
Everett That's right. So I wear a button up shirt nearly every day, and about 95% of those days I wear a button down shirt, a shirt where the buttons, where the collar buttons to the shirt. You have owned one of these shirts. If you are a man and you're listening to the show, you have owned one. And you were either 13 to 15, it was probably flannel. I know that we have women that listen to the show because you guys occasionally message us. and we're really happy to have you. You may not have owned a button-down shirt, and that's okay. You probably shouldn't. But you should. You should. So the Oxford cloth button-down. Now, so we're gonna up the ante, right? There's a button-down shirt, and you can find lots of button-down broadcloth shirts, dress shirts. It's a dress shirt with a button-down collar. Fine. I don't care. That's fine. It's fine. I'm specifically talking about a classic Oxford cloth, a shirt made from Oxford cloth, which is a sort of a soft, wider weave cloth. Non-iron is a no go. If you've got an Oxford cloth button down and it's a non-iron, I'm telling you, you have not done it. You have not finished. You need a must iron Oxford cloth button down. Furthermore, I want you to look at the collar. I want you to take this shirt that I'm referring to right now. You think, ah, I've got one of those. I want you to look at the collar. If the collar is short, if the collar is short and it makes a straight line down to that button, I want you to not wear that shirt anymore. I mean, whatever, whatever, wear it. It's probably a cool shirt. You probably got it at Aeropostale and it's fantastic and you love it and you're always going to wear it, but it's not the 80s anymore. I want you to get and unlined, the collar being unlined, with a long collar. I want from the point of that button to the part where the collar folds, I want that to be too long, making an S curve in the collar. The Oxford Cloth Button Down is the most versatile shirt on the face of the earth. And it's furthermore, it's just about all I wear. Now, there are not very many places that you can buy a good Oxford Cloth Button Down because it's kind of an antiquated style. So there are a few brands. There's a brand called Kamakura, which makes very good Oxford Cloth Buttons. Now I'm not going to go through all the brands. If you want to buy an Oxford Cloth Button Down, look up best places to buy OCBD. Just Google it. I personally prefer the Brooks Brothers, made in the United States, made in North Carolina, Oxford Cloth Button Down. That's my favorite. It works really well for me. About five years ago they redesigned this thing because they had kind of gotten away from their roots and they had a lined collar. It was kind of stiff and weird. They now have an unlined collar. The collar roll is phenomenal. They cost $140 on the website. You can find them under $100. Trust me this. Wait for a sale. Buy them for between $80 and $90. That's the sweet spot. These shirts are the best shirts. It's the best dress shirt you can buy, I think, most versatile in any event. And it's not a dress shirt. You're right, Andrew. It's a sports shirt.
Andrew But if you know what you're doing, that's the thing. You have to know what you're doing. It's just like wearing a Speedmaster on an elastic strap.
Everett Which I am doing right now. Yeah. I'm wearing a Speedmaster on a pajama strap. Nick Mankey. It's money.
Andrew So we talked about it earlier. That's the first time I put the Speedmaster on and it felt right. And it all is down to the shoes.
Everett You know, we're going to get Nick Mankey on the show one of these days. He makes these great straps. Look him up, Nick Mankey. But I've got my Speedmaster on a pajama strap from Nick Mankey. It's not what it's called. That's what I call it. But it feels like pajamas.
Andrew And it also makes a Speedmaster. It's the first time I've put it on and been like, I like you.
Everett And you know, one of my favorite thing about this is I just I keep it closed all the time and I just stretch it over my hand and put it on.
Andrew And it makes me think a bonk clip would work really well on the Speedmaster. But we've gone way off. So many times.
Everett Do you have anything else you want to add today? Way to go.
Andrew I don't. I'm done. I'm done.
Everett A lot of things. I'm done too. So thank you for joining us for this episode of 40 in 20, the Watch Clicker podcast. Check us out on Instagram at 40 in 20 at the Watch Clicker. Check us out on watchclicker.com. That's the website, you guys. That's where we have all our reviews. We post the podcast there every week. If you want to support us, most importantly, if you want to support us, patreon.com slash 40 in 20. That's where we got all the support for the show, including, you know, hosting fees, which are not cheap.
Andrew No, we had a lot of shit on the internet.
Everett Don't forget to check us out next Thursday for another hour of watches, food, drinks, life, and other things we like.
Andrew Bye bye.