The Grey NATO - Ep 96 - DOXA

Published on Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:00:33 -0500

Synopsis

This is the final episode of The Graynado podcast for 2019. Jason and James discuss the year in review, highlighting the growth of the podcast and their partnership with Hodinkee. They thank their listeners and sponsors for a successful year. The main topic is a deep dive into the Swiss watch brand Doxa, known for its distinctive dive watches with bright colored dials. They cover the history of the brand, its iconic designs like the Doxa Sub 300, current model lineup and pricing. They share their personal experiences and favorite Doxa watches from their collections. The episode concludes with some final notes, podcast recommendations, and well wishes for the new year.

Transcript

Speaker
Jason Heaton Hello and welcome to another episode of the Graynado, a Houdinki podcast. A loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 96 and we thank you for listening. Hey, how's it going? This is our last episode of the year, James.
James Stacey It sure is. Yeah, it's, uh, yeah, 96, you know, we're getting pretty close to 100 and yeah, this will be the last one. The next one will come out just... Like the second. Just barely into 2020, which is a fun sentence to say, I suppose. 2020 feels so much more aggressive than 2019. Yeah. A new decade. It feels more like 2020 really feels like a, not only a new decade, but it feels like a title from a science fiction novel. You know, like an important year in the development of our species. We'll see. Yeah. I mean, you know, 2019, it's been an incredible year for TGN.
Jason Heaton It sure has. I mean, we, I mean, going back slightly into 2018, we had that really fun meetup out in New York during the week of H10, and that was in December. And I kind of feel like that sort of kicked things off for what became such a big year for us. And then certainly our partnership with Hodinkee, which launched this year. And that's just been really rewarding for us. You know, we brought in a lot of new listeners and some new opportunities. Some new sponsors came on board. Yeah, it's just, you're right, it was our biggest year yet. I'm sure 2020 will just continue to grow.
James Stacey I hope so. I mean, a huge thank you from Jason and I to everyone who's been listening, whether it's just you just started this year, or you've been around for the past several years. We can't thank you enough that we get the chance to do this. And you know, the number has to, there has to be someone listening on the other side for it to be possible for a couple guys in our position to put these sorts of things together. This has been a great year. I think there's a lot of like proof of concept in that. And part of that comes with the advertisers. So along with the listeners, a big thank you to this year's advertisers. So that's Alps and Meters, Drive Coffee, Garmin, Manta Watches, Gear Patrol, Bremont, Hamilton and Oris. And like if you and I had sat down a couple of years ago and tried to dream up some great sponsors, some people who like we align with not only at a product level, but people we know and like at a personality level. I think we nailed almost all of them in one year.
Jason Heaton I think so. Just you reading that just made me kind of get goosebumps. I mean, that's quite a list that feels so TGN. And I remember back when we were in Colorado and we sat down with the guy from Drive Coffee and chatted with him and then Alps and Meters was talking to us and it was like, you could kind of feel the buzz building. And I thought, you know, it's going to be a good year, but I had no idea we'd get all these other great brands on board as well. So yeah, thanks to Thanks to the sponsors and then of course to our listeners. And I think that, you know, both serve each other. I think, uh, hopefully we've stayed loyal to what TGN is all about with, even with bringing in these advertisers that I think are well suited for, for what our listeners are into as well. So, um, good, good stuff.
James Stacey I would agree. And outside of that, since we talked last, what have you been up to? How's the weather? Are you still getting some skiing in? We got some snow on the ground. What's the scene?
Jason Heaton Yeah, we've got a good bed of snow here. And then my skiing sort of got sidetracked a little bit. It's been just super cold here, or it was this past week. So I was back on the rowing machine in the basement. I sort of wimped out. But yeah, kind of staying busy. just the brief sort of fitness update since our fitness episode, you know, I was doing the, the a hundred pushup challenge with, with that app. And, uh, I sort of veered from the app. Uh, I was sick and kind of took a week off and then was, I was getting back into it. I was like, you know what, I'm never going to be able to do a hundred pushups in a row. So, so I sort of, I sort of started my own program and I'm kind of just doing, you know, multiple sets doing about 80 pushups a day. So it's, uh, you know, That's good for a guy who's pushing 50 years old. I think I'll be happy with that. And then rowing and skiing. So I'm staying on top of it. Yeah, that's great. I'm glad to hear it.
James Stacey What about for me? Yeah, I mean, you know, when I'm in Toronto, I'm on the bike. I'm still really enjoying that as a mode of exercise that feels, you know, in many ways equal to running. Um, which I'm happy with, uh, but you know, this is such an insanely busy time of year for Hodinkee. And there's something every couple of days that requires months and months of work beforehand. So it's, it's crazy to see it all kind of start to come up. And that includes, you know, a handful of LEs have gone up since the last time that we recorded and the new Leica camera, the ghost edition M10P with Leica.
Jason Heaton Yeah. What do you think of that? What, what's your, what's your take on that? I mean, I know you're. You're a fan, you're, uh, you know, certainly a congrats on that, on that really cool Leica video that, that Hodinkee put up in partnership with Leica. But what, what's your feeling on the M10, the ghost edition? Do you like it?
James Stacey Uh, I adore it. I thought like if you were going to buy an M10, that's the one to have there, you know, it's limited to 250. It's, it's also, uh, not as expensive as other cameras that comes with the lens.
Unknown Huh?
James Stacey Yeah. Like it's an interesting value. Um, but I mean, we're, we're still talking about a $15,000 camera. If I was in the market for said camera, I would absolutely love to have one. I have an M10P Loner from the office, just a standard black one, and it's an absolutely glorious camera to work with. I don't know that I could use it for my day-to-day job so much, but as a hobbyist camera, as an art camera, as something for more the love of photography, then perhaps I have to get 40 photos of a watch for a review. Sort of scenario. I think it's an incredible product and the nice thing about it is it really is the The camera equivalent of like a beautiful hand wound long. Oh, yeah Yeah, and they're just like hand finished really like human based production still despite being a piece of electronic and Just a really fantastic thing if you ever get a chance to hold something like an m-series camera These are you know, these are rangefinders. They don't have any autofocus systems It's very much a mechanical feeling device in your hand, despite, of course, the modern ones. The last few series have been digital and they still use lenses that use the mount that's, you know, several decades old. So you can you can mount really old glass on these things and get a lot of fun out of them. And if you're in the if you're in that kind of premium enthusiast camera space, there isn't any competitor to an M10.
Jason Heaton Yeah, it's interesting to see how a camera like this is, has become sort of a collectible object. I mean, I think, you know, like as have been collectible for, for quite some time, a lot of people have a lot of the old film cameras and collect the lenses and that sort of thing, which is such an interesting thing, you know, to, to peer into the world of other collectibles when you're sort of rooted in the, in a space like watches, like we are. And then you get a glimpse into people that collect cars or, uh, you know, I don't know what luggage cameras, sneakers, sneakers, um, I've handled a few Leicas. I got to play with an old M-series film camera years ago, and they definitely do have that feel of hand-built quality. It's an interesting time we're in now where you have this mix of a handcrafted mechanical device that has to stay current with electronics and the feature set that is competing with everything from Hasselblad to Sony to Fuji. And they've managed to kind of stay on top of the game at Leica and combine it with that, that very tactile mechanical and, you know, build quality. Um, I find that, that juxtaposition just fascinating. You don't get that with watches necessarily, unless you start to go into something like a, uh, a hybrid, you know, one of these Frederick Constant that has both mechanical and smartwatch movements in it or something. But I don't even think that's a good comparison.
James Stacey Yeah, it's weird because it is something where there's this delineation in cameras where you have film cameras which will never be modern, but currently speaking, aren't so far gone that they can't be used. Film is still produced, it's still a thing that people enjoy and like. It's a little bit closer to something like a manual transmission versus an automatic transmission in a car, rather than the way the watch game has gone. Because watch is part of the core value of the enthusiasm is having the mechanical movement, despite the fact that it's less accurate and, uh, and, you know, requires maintenance and these sorts of things. But, you know, with, with the cameras, it's a little bit more like how, how involved in that process do you want to be? If you want to shoot film or you want to shoot in fully manual, that's more like a manual transmission in a car. And then it's a little bit harder. It requires some practice and some finesse and some kind of constant mindset. to make sure that it's done properly and it's done so with some mechanical sympathy. If you've ever loaded a film camera wrong, you'll know what I mean. And then on the other side of that, conversely, from the same company, you can go in many different directions in digital. So they just announced, you know, Leica announced the SL2, which is their like very high-end professional grade SLR with the same sensor that's in the new Q2. So you get this giant, almost 50 megapixel full-frame sensor. You get, I would say, In my... Certainly in my experience, and this is what they're known for, the best glass in the world. And then with the SL or with the Q, you're getting an autofocus system, so this is a camera that I can use for much more high pressure scenarios. If I'm gonna go shoot my kids or I'm on a hike and I wanna take a picture of the Jeep in the mud or something like that, the M is perfect for that. I can take the extra 30 seconds. Yeah. To get one photo that I want for Instagram, but if I'm taking a picture of a watch in a poorly lit room And you know, all of the conditions are essentially working against me. I want my cue Yeah, and you know, that's why when we did that video profile with laika that I really said like, you know It's the cue is the one that I would actually pick up and use. It's the one that's been my camera It's been welded to my hand for a little over a year now. I absolutely adore it as a platform And I also know that in any scenario, I will get the photo that I need from that camera. Sure. Um, you know, it'd be really cool. Which is the part that's most important to me.
Jason Heaton You know, what would be really cool is, uh, if Leica or another company would create a hybrid camera that would take both film and digital. So if the sensor is, if you could convert the modes so that when you load the film, it just slides across the, You know, the, the plate and kind of rides in front of where a sensor would be. If you're shooting film, it's just exposing onto the film that's passing, you know, behind the lens. But if you wanted to shoot digital, you just don't load film. And then, and then the light and the image gets put onto the sensor. I mean, I don't know that there's even a market for that, but it occurs to me that, you know, I could see a company like Leica doing that to please the people that like sort of both, uh, both disciplines.
James Stacey Yeah, for sure. And I mean, the interesting thing is not only can you go back and buy like a Leica M6 is kind of their legendary film camera. Yeah. But those are now a couple grand for a tidy M6, which is a considerable amount of money for a film camera these days. Or you can go and buy a modern MP, which will also is a film camera, but it's built like a modern M10. So they're still very much committed to the idea of photography as an art form, regardless of how you want to use it. And it can be more in a professional sense, like what I get from the queue or what someone might get from an SL platform, or it can be more in the deep enthusiast sense where it's an M10, which also, you know, operates a little bit like a status symbol or a calling card into a group of other, you know, like, like a guys are a thing, like a people are a thing. Yeah. And, um, and then when you get to a different level, it's these ones that are special colors or have special finishes. they do a lot of different versions of these cameras every year, you know, the previous to the ghost edition for Hodinkee, they did one with Lenny Kravitz and they do these safari editions that are green and, and that way they offer a little bit more customization or personality or this collectability factor that comes into them. And I think it's such a fascinating brand, uh, huge, um, huge, you know, fan of, of what they're up to and how it works and that sort of thing. And then as far as my experience over say the last year, year and a half playing with the Q and then becoming an owner of the Q, like, For the type of work that I do, and I mean a lot of you listening see my photos, anything that's published on Hodinkee these days, that's all I shoot with. I can go and shoot a watch as well as anything I ever held from Canon or otherwise, but the system's smaller. It's much more intuitive for me. It requires less space in a bag. It's less weight. And I've really found like a sweet spot with this camera system that I love. And I'm just in a transition point where I don't think it's going to happen before 2020, but 2020 will be my Q2 year. I'm going to, I definitely want that additional, uh, weather resistance and resolution. Uh, so I'm quite excited for that. And then we'll see if that means maybe I can put the Q in your hands, Jason. I think you and Ghoshani would have an absolute blast with it.
Unknown Oh yeah.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I would love that. Yeah. Just, just seeing you work with it on a trip we took together a while back, uh, sort of sold both of us on, on the idea of, of that camera and that sort of form factor. So very cool. Well, should we jump into our main topic? I think it's, it's an exciting one. I think, you know, we, uh, we got some feedback from a listener. I can't remember whom, but lately who said, you know, you know, congratulations on, on the million plays of, of TGN, uh, one request, bring back the single brand focused episodes. And I, frankly, I forgot that we even did those and it was a nice reminder. And so. we sort of dug back and looked and we've only done two. We did a Seiko episode and we did a Rolex episode. So we were trying to think of what to do today and came up with a brand that's near and dear to both of our hearts and came up with Doxa.
James Stacey Absolutely. I think it's, it's a fun and it's a good reminder. And, and I, in my mind we'd done more than two.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey And then I went back over the list of the episodes and yeah, it was just Seiko and Rolex was like episode 20 and 28 I think. And, and yeah, I'm, I'm excited for this one. I think this is a nice way to end the year. especially because, you know, when we started TGN, I hadn't owned a Doxa. I'd kind of interacted with them a bit, but now, now I've had one and it's become like an absolute pillar of my collection, a watch I wear frequently throughout the year. It's one of my all-time favorite dive watches now. Yeah. And, and I think this is a really fun brand and it's a brand that is like very, very TGN in both the aesthetic, their application and their price point. Right. Because they're a little bit more aspirational than say a Seiko. But you're not into the actual luxury price points of, you know, blowing through $5,000, $10,000, $15,000, like the kind of stuff where I'm not buying those kind of watches. I'll pony up for a Dockside. I really enjoyed mine and I got a great price on it. But, you know, they're offering a lot now, starting at just a price point just above a decent Seiko.
Jason Heaton Yeah, right. I feel like they sort of straddle or exist in that space between Seikos and micro brands and the luxury brands. And I think that means that You both get this history and sort of the whole vibe that goes with an old Swiss brand that's done some cool stuff in its history and a watch that you're willing to kind of throw on and take on a dive trip or go hiking with or, you know, beat up a little bit. And they also don't, even though they're so distinctive looking, so few people know what they are, that they're just kind of fun to wear out and about, especially with a kind of a watch enthusiast crowd. You know, you'll get some that say, Oh, that's a, that's a Doxa, right? And it's like, I've never seen one in person or, whatever, and some people get them, some people don't, some people like them. But maybe before we get into our likes and dislikes, maybe it helps to do a little bit of a background of the brand. When we talk about Dockside, we generally just talk about the dive watches, but certainly they go back a lot further than that.
James Stacey They definitely do. I mean, this is a brand that was originally founded in 1889, a Swiss watch brand. They produce watches, travel clocks. You can find their name on all sorts of stuff. Generally, like you see them on a lot of, if you just search Doxa on a sales form or even on eBay, you'll find that there aren't typically, though they are the most expensive options, there aren't a lot of, you won't see as many dive options as you might expect. You'll see a lot of smaller dress watches, art deco watches, you know, things that have Doxa's name on them because Doxa's been around for so long. Where the brand came into what I think I'm speaking for Jason here, but what I think is our sweet spot would have been in the mid-60s. Yeah. When they came out with the Sub, a true sports dive watch. This wasn't a skin diver. It was meant for actual diving. They had legitimate design, even down to the way the scale on the bezel was actually meant for decompression. They were doing something that other people weren't doing. They were right on the forefront, the cutting edge, alongside Rolex and making a helium escape valve. This is a brand that today doesn't have the prestige that you might expect if we all just rewound to 1968. Yeah. And, and looked at what you could buy as a diver at the time. And, and, you know, they've had a harder time than say a Rolex, obviously Rolex has done better than everyone. So that's a bad, uh, a bad comparison, but the brand still has all of these sweet points. And, and, and a lot of it is in very characteristic design. Like DOCSIS don't look like other stuff and other stuff doesn't typically look like DOCSIS. And I think they also use color better than any other sport watch in the world.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I would agree. I think even when they first started introducing those colors was right around 67 when they introduced the sub line. And that's when, as the legend goes, they were testing these new types of dive watches in the lake in Neuchatel in Switzerland. And it's a fairly murky lake. And they thought, oh, we should pick a dial that's really visible and that's when they came up with the iconic orange color that we all know and then certainly they introduced the yellow diving star in the early 70s and and today they've got a whole sort of rainbow of colors but uh you know before that I mean watches I suppose I you know I haven't looked into this or researched this thoroughly but you know there weren't a lot of bright colored watches before Doxa came along and now you look around and everybody's got an orange dial dialed watch or a blue dialed watch or whatever and I think Doxa kind of started that off and it, I think it brings the brand into that more casual, sporty, rugged sort of feel immediately. I mean, you're not getting a, you know, okay, Rolex is a green dial occasionally, but you know, you just don't see the typical brands veering far from blue, silver or black. I don't know much about the non dive doxes, but certainly since 67 and into the seventies, the dive watches were certainly what they were known for. I mean, you had everybody from sea lab divers and Gene Cernan, the astronaut, owned a Teagraph. And, you know, you got a lot of amazing people that certainly Cousteau and his crew were wearing DOCSIS regularly. So that's really where they hit their stride and what they were known for most of all. And then as the story goes, and as people well know, the quartz crisis of the 70s and into the 80s pretty well doomed the brand. I think they were changed hands a few times and it went to Synchron and then a parent company called Aubrey and ultimately I think they sort of just fizzled out until gosh it was the late 90s early 2000s when when Rick Mirai who's a guy that kind of exists a little under the radar for a lot of watch people but he's a fairly important figure in in watches and he was a big collector of diving watches especially and just kind of a big fan of that genre and he approached the Yenny company, which is spelled like Jenny, um, the Yenny company, which goes way back to the sixties, they were making a dive cases for a number of brands and actually started aqua dive and some other brands. And, um, they owned the docks and name and he approached them and said, you know, we should relaunch the sub line. I think it would be really popular. And at this time it was early two thousands and he thought, let's just sell them in limited series on the internet. And so he recreated the sub line, um, And just sort of started producing these limited editions for, you know, most of the, all of the two thousands and into the 2010s. Um, and, and they developed this sort of cult following thanks to a forum. And certainly then with the rise of social media and Instagram, they kind of took off a little bit too. And, um, so, you know, hats off to Rick for, for reviving the brand and making it kind of what, what it is now. But, but recently they've changed management and the Yenny company has decided to go in a different direction in terms of distribution and sales. And, uh, you know, I think there are some positive, uh, aspects to that new direction in that there's just more exposure, more, more people will have access to docks. As I noticed that our friends in Australia, time and tide are now an official distributor. Um, there's a place in the UK that's, that's doing distribution there. Um, I've, I've heard rumors that, that in the U S um, You know, things are looking up in that regard as well. So we'll see what happens. I noticed also on their, they've got a new website and they've got some new colors and some new offerings. So, um, we'll see what the future holds, but I think the DOXAs that you and I know and love have come out of this, uh, this last, uh, I'd say 10 years and sort of the rise of the, the rebirth of the sub.
James Stacey Yeah, absolutely. I don't think that we have a, sorry, it's not even fair to say, think we don't have modern DOXA, like a DOXA that you can buy. That's a modern watch without Rick. Yeah. And his effect is huge on a handful of brands, but like, especially the fact that we have these reissues and not just the reissues, like the sub 300 that we talk about, I'm talking about like every Doxa that, that held on to the sixties and seventies styling that came after 2002 was because of that move because of that inspiration. And, and yes, they only sold in small volumes and they were very much like an insider sort of niche cult brand. And I think they still hold onto that even as they expand. But I think, it's helpful because they went in a lot of different directions over the last, you know, 17 years in terms of style. So it might be helpful to maybe just break down their current lineup. Yeah. And I think for that, we'll start with the colors because I want to be able to talk about, well, I want to use their terms for colors without alienating anyone who's listening. So if, for those of you who aren't aware, Doxa terms, all of their dial colors. So a Professional is orange, a Sea Rambler is a silver dial, a Shark Hunter is black, Caribbean is blue, typically with an orange accent. Then they have Aquamarine, which is like a bright teal, and they have Diving Star, which is yellow. Am I missing any there?
Jason Heaton No, I think that's it. Yeah, I mean, they've added a couple of colors that were very limited They didn't, weren't offering the Caribbean for a number of years except on just one or two limited editions that they did. And then this aquamarine color was, I think it was like a, they did a limited series with, with Numa, which was like Clive Kessler's shipwreck hunting organization. But yeah, this aquamarine color is, is somewhat new to the lineup, but yeah, I think that was the only, that was the only example of that bright blue that
James Stacey teal sort of seafoam color that I could think of was the Numa one. Yeah. And then of course, the Caribbean links up with one of my favorite, a watch they don't currently produce, but did for some time, the 750 GMT, which was offered in a Caribbean spec, which you had a diving star. I actually have trouble now in my mind thinking which one would be cooler. I think I would buy a Caribbean if I could. Yeah, yeah. But blue, orange, it's that... And they do a very specific blue, It's not like other people's blue. It's like if you can imagine a bright navy.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey Yeah. Which is really special because it's hyper legible. And then, of course, it's the orange that they use from the professional, which is this. It's the orange we use in our logo for TGN. It's this hyper saturated, like deep pumpkin sort of orange. Right. Which I really like. Other brands, the orange is very red or very yellow. And in my opinion, it loses contrast. And don't get me wrong, the color isn't something that's going to survive as you dive very deep. But as far as an attitude, like these watches have an attitude all their own because of the color. Like there's a, you can put your, like you have a sub 300 pro.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey And if you put that next to my Sea Rambler, like they're the same, but they're very different. Yeah. Um, kind of personalities.
Jason Heaton And I have a really hard time choosing a favorite. I have doxes of all the colors other than the blue and the, and the teal. And, uh, You know, people always ask, Oh, what's your favorite? Do you like the professional or do you like the, the sea rambler? You have the sea rambler. I think that that silver dial to my eye feels the most kind of vintagey and, and a little bit, and I like it for that. It feels, it feels like you're wearing an old, you know, an old dive watch. Um, the orange is just so orange. I mean, it's just like fun and colorful and classic I guess. But, um, and then the black feels very serious. You know, it feels kind of mil spec, uh, sort of along the lines of a Blancpain or a Rolex or something. It just feels like, okay, this is the watch that the SeaLab guys would wear or something like that.
James Stacey Yeah, for sure. And for me, like it's definitely the SeaRambler is the one that's the easiest for me to go after. I don't love black dial dive watches. Like I do love them, but I only need one. Yeah. And they feel so similar as soon as they're all that same kind of monotone color. And for me, The secret sauce of Doxa is how much charm and personality they have. And I feel you get more of that for your money by picking one of these other colors. And the Sea Rambler was always going to be my first because it's the most quietly stated of the colors that isn't black. But now I have this really like I definitely need to get an orange Doxa. You know, I've been eyeballing the sub 200 pretty seriously. I've got some emails out to see if I get one in for loan to check it out. Yeah. We'll see if that works out. I'm not sure if they're in a position to be loaning watches, but I like that. I like the sub 200 and orange or, you know, there's there's also I'd love to maybe consider hunting down a 750 GMT, either the pro, which they made in limited. It's very black orange.
Jason Heaton or the the caribbean would be uh that'd be a bit of a grail for me a very cool watch yeah yeah yeah they're out there they're they're they're i don't see them often i never see them in the wild but uh yeah i regret that was one regret i've got a few regrets of watches i've let go and that i had the diving star gmt and
James Stacey And you wore it on your swim to Alcatraz. I'm surprised that's one that you sold. You must have been in a weird headspace when you decided you didn't need that.
Jason Heaton There's dark days of collecting and flipping. I mean, we've all been there, I'm sure. Yeah, for sure. Now I've settled into this, like I'm happy with what I have. But those were the days when you're kind of heady and a little bit manic and it's kind of like, you know, the next one pops up and the next one pops up. I was spending a lot more time on the forums, too, back then. Maybe that's part of the sickness.
James Stacey Yeah, forums would get you for sure. I've bought and sold watches that I I would say I wasn't even that interested in. Yeah. Because of just nursing a strong watch you seek addiction.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to go through the watches themselves? Yeah, sure.
James Stacey So I went by based on the... We can go by price. That's the easiest. So if we start at their entry level, it's called the Sub 200. This is a watch that was announced this year at Baselworld. And it comes in two versions, the standard sub 200 and a sub 200 130th anniversary edition. These are the same watch. Arguably, the LE has a slightly different colorway on a black version of the watch, on a Shark Hunter version of the watch, and it's limited to 130 pieces. And for that limited value or for that limited production, you pay an additional $200. Yeah. So that's $1,190, a standard sub 200, which is available in all six colors. all look awesome is $990 and this is a watch that we've received a handful of messages about and DMs and emails and all that so it is something that we're going to get in hand one way or another so we can talk about it on the show as it seems to be interesting too.
Jason Heaton Before you move on to the next one too I think this watch is a real departure for Doxa although it ironically it predated the well-known kind of kickoff of that familiar case shape and bezel that everybody knows Doxa for. This one has more of the Seamaster style case, more traditional case with the twisted lugs and the logo is dead center on the dial, the hands are more traditional. I think you and I saw this at Baselworld 2018, a prototype of this.
James Stacey It's certainly possible.
Jason Heaton And it was like, at the time, I was like, okay, nicely done, but I still am a sucker for the other ones. But I think if someone is looking for just a cool, kind of more traditional dive watch and maybe they want a Doxa, this might be, this might be the one.
James Stacey Yeah. And the nice thing is, is that where a lot of brands are offering what I would call more of a skin diver concept, maybe a hundred meter water resist or no screw down crown, stuff like that. This is, this is a thousand dollars. It's a 42 millimeter steel case with the bracelet, the beads of rice style bracelet. And it's a 200 meter water resistant. It runs on a Swiss at a movement. So the value is all there. If you, if you go in for, seven or eight hundred dollar micro brand with a Miyota it really isn't a stretch to spend a little bit more to get the bracelet and The bezel here that like that value speaks for itself in my book Yeah, and the fact that you get the color and it says Doc's on the dial This is one of the few brands that like makes me smile just seeing their name Yeah, like they have actually like it's fully positive brand kind of recognition for me And I love it. I think this would be a really nice way to get into the Doxa world. I agree that for my money, I need to have that Doxa cushion case for something that's really going to seal the deal. But I think this is a really fantastic offering. And I think it's a really smart play for the brand to have something under a thousand dollars. Yeah. Next up from that, we go to one thousand eight hundred ninety dollars. It's the Sub 300T. This gives you the cushion style case. and 42.5 millimeters case sizing. So that's roughly the same size as the 300, uh, re 50th anniversary re-edition. Uh, but you're getting a standard, you know, more of a, uh, less of a vintage appeal crystal on this and, and a slightly different dial layout. It's 1200 meters, water resistant, and again, uses a 28, 24, uh, movement. So good, uh, good movement on that. and then beyond that we move into the sub 1200 which is the same price but is a limited edition of 1200 pieces of which many of the colors are already sold out also 42.5 millimeters and a 2824 1200 meters water resistance but this has a helium escape valve yeah and then you move on to the sub 1500 t some of these names i find difficult to this is there's a reason i'm listing all of these it's because the number next to the T after sub doesn't actually link up with anything always. Sometimes it does. It doesn't always. So I'm just trying to give everyone a quick rundown. So at the 1500 T, you're up to about $2,400, $2,390. It's a 45 millimeter DOXA style case. But now you get an ETA-2892 too, so a higher end, higher execution movement, and it's 1500 meters water resistant. Again, multiple colors, the steel bracelet, it's a given. Beyond that we have the sub 4000 T, which is just about $3,700. That's a limited edition of 300 units And another 200 with a sapphire bezel. This is a bit a little bit more of a modern take on The Doxa classic Doxa styling. It's also in a 47.5 millimeter wide steel case 1,200 meters water resistance and this one uses a movement that offers a power reserve indicator So that could be fun if you wanted something with not only the much larger case sizes, but more like almost a Panerai sort of wrist presence. Yeah. But a cool thing. And then finally, at the top of their price point, the sub 200 T-Graph re-edition. This is $4,900, 43 millimeter steel case, 200 meter water resistant. And that uses a Valjob 7743 chronograph. So that's what they have on the site now. If you go on like a watch recon and search Doxa, you're going to see a bunch of other things. Just Google it when you see it because it's hard to predict what size the case will be. And then the only thing I would throw in about case sizing is DOXA is not equal to other things. Yeah, good point. 42.5 on DOXA wears like 40. Like I can take my Explorer 2 off and put the DOXA on and there's no difference in the way they sit on my wrist. The DOXA sits very flat and the curvature of the case kind of accepts the crown. So you're kind of operating a case which I don't think you're going to be blown away by it suddenly feeling so much bigger than your other stuff. If you've put on the other one, the other example I'd use is like the SRP 777, the Seiko Prospex that we love, that's like 43, 43 and a half millimeters, doesn't wear anywhere near that big. It's that cushion case and the limited lug to lug really sits equally in both directions on your wrist, which makes it feel quite a bit smaller. I would call it like the inverse of a Nomos where you can buy a 37 millimeter watch You know, you buy like a 37, 37 and a half millimeter Nomos, but it's considerably longer than that lug to lug. Yeah, like drapes over the sides of your wrists. Yeah. Yeah. And then suddenly you're like, did my wrist get smaller? What is going on here? There's not much dial. There's a ton of lugs. Yeah. In this case, you get a tiny dial, quite a bit of case, but the case is almost square in appeal. Yeah. It's not exactly square in measurement, but the way that it sits on your wrist is lovely. They also accept other straps better than any watch I've ever come across.
Jason Heaton Yeah, amazingly enough. I mean, you wouldn't you wouldn't think. Yeah. And I find that I wear mine almost never on the bracelet. In fact, I don't think any of my doxes are on the bracelet currently.
James Stacey I like mine on I have like a $50 mesh bracelet from eBay from a decade ago. Oh, yeah. And I love it on that because the mesh with the steel colored bezel of the Sea Rambler looks really fun. But otherwise, I mean, they're incredible on a NATO. They're great on leather. You do really well with a bund, which isn't my aesthetic, but it looks great. Yeah, great on you. And it's and it is very three days of the Condor that that move is awesome. Yeah, that's their that's their product lineup. That's what you can go and buy from them now. They hold their value reasonably well on the secondhand market. So you can go on to a watch recon and search docs and start to get a real feel for what's out there. A lot of it is going to be stuff from the last two or three years. But occasionally you'll come across stuff with military dials, or they used to make all black versions of some of their watches, and they also had models that had tritium in the dial, so they glowed all the time, which is pretty fun. And then, of course, which Jason has one of them, they do occasionally make stuff in titanium.
Jason Heaton Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, my very first dive review story back with Gear Patrol, I think it was 2009, was Adaxa. That was my first dive review story and it was so cool. It was the 800 tie, which was this sort of oddball in their lineup, which is long gone. You can still find them. Um, what was unique about it at the time was, was it was their first with a titanium case and, and then it had these tritium tubes for loom on the, on the hands and on the, on the dial markers and just looked kind of weird on Adaxa. I think it probably took people a little bit, off guard when they released that. And then it had a very different bracelet, too. It didn't have the beads of rice. It had sort of a different style with multiple links, some polished, some matte that were held to the case with screws. So it was just kind of a weird, very different watch for them, although it retained the general dial layout and hands and bezel. And I like that watch. I wore it a bit. But then, you know, as the sort of the Doxa Mania took hold. Uh, I think I might've moved from that one to the, that GMT, um, another oddball weird one. And then from there it was kind of, uh, often running for me with, with DOXA. But, uh, yeah, um, arguably it's my favorite brand. I mean, I definitely own the most DOXAs. I a little embarrassed to admit how many I own, so I'm not even gonna list the number here, but, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's, uh, more than a handful. Let's put it that way. Literally. And, uh, um, And they're all the kind of different ones, but you know, for me, I've got, I've got two vintage T-graphs and I think, you know, just, just talking a little bit about their vintage watches. I think certainly, you know, you and I both have the sub 300 50th anniversary reissue, um, which we both love and which is a fantastic watch, probably one of the best modern dive watches of the past decade. Um, but you know, if you can find a vintage Doxa and they're not that They're rare, but they're not that rare. I mean, you can find them on eBay, but if you search right now, you'd find one or two or on the forums. Those watches are so awesome. And you can get them serviced and brought up to spec and you can still use them. And they look like the new ones and they wear really, really well.
James Stacey Yeah, I agree. I mean, you should be able to find and this is it's difficult to talk about the pricing of some vintage watches. It's even more difficult with Doxes. Yeah. So learn what you're going to buy first. But a vintage 300T depending on the case thickness, is gonna set you back, let's call it $2,500 to maybe $4,500. Yeah. It could exceed that. If it's rare, if it has something else on the dial, if it has other things with it, they can become more expensive, of course, but I think the window is still under five grand for a legacy, amazing, real tool dive watch from the late 60s that has a style that doesn't look like a Submariner. Yeah. that I think these offer a considerable amount of coolness for what they're still commanding. And they used to be drastically cheaper.
Jason Heaton I think what's neat about them too, the vintage ones, is that even if you don't know the backstory as to who the original owner was or something, just given the aesthetic of them and kind of how they were sold back then and who wore them, odds are you're getting a watch that was probably used by somebody putting it in harm's way regularly. And a lot of them look the part. I mean, that polished steel bezel does not take scratches lightly. I mean, I don't know about yours, but mine are all kind of a little bit dinged up and whatever, and they get pretty scratched pretty quickly. But I think that's part of the allure. I think that's what a lot of DOCSA guys like. And you can certainly polish it out and repaint the numbers if you want. For how they were probably used, a lot of those vintage ones have held up really well.
James Stacey There's a lot out there. They made a lot of watches. They don't command the sorts of prices that Rolex or Blancpain or other long-standing dive watch presences will. And that's because the company went through a lot of different phases and ownership and had obviously some trouble with the courts crisis like everyone did. And the old ones are really cool. The new ones, I think, are very cool as well. And I think there's just a lot, like they are a true like pillar enthusiast brand in my mind from the sport watch space and certainly within dive watches.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I would agree. I think I remember when I came to Vancouver for the TGN Summit, which one did I bring? The T-Graph and the Mission 31?
James Stacey Yeah, you had the T-Graph and the Mission, because I have a photo of them together.
Jason Heaton Oh yeah, right. Yeah, so I still have the Mission 31 watch, which has a neat backstory. I was, I Mission 31, for those who don't remember, was a project initiated by the grandson of Jacques Cousteau, Fabien Cousteau, who wanted to initiate this ambitious project where he stays in the Aquarius underwater habitat off the coast of Florida for 31 days with a team, a rotating team of fellow aquanauts, they call themselves, people that live inside a habitat under pressure, underwater for a length of time are considered aquanauts or sea dwellers. And so they did that. And DOXA was a supporter of that and made a special edition watch with the project logo on the dial. And then they sold 331 of these watches that all of them had been in the habitat for the entire duration of the mission. And I think if I remember right, Cousteau or his team would take one out each day and wear Um, or wear them outside the habitat. They were going to actually tether the case or something or strap the watches or something on the outside of the habitat. But no joke, they were concerned about theft. You know, as if some divers would come out in the middle of the night and steal the watches, which maybe it was a little bit paranoid, but, uh, that's a, that'd be a very daring heist. Yeah, exactly. Um, so, you know, a lot of people are lucky owners of these, these really cool watches. And I have one that I wore on the, the first day of the mission, which was June 1st. I don't remember the year, but, um, so I dove down with, uh, with the folks from DOXA to deliver the, the case of watches for the start of the project. And, um, so I wore one and did some other diving in Florida at the same time. So, you know, mine's pretty special to me. I don't wear it very often. It's got the titanium case and that unique bracelet. It was kind of modeled after the, the 800 tie, um, without the tritium tubes on the dial. Um, So that was a pretty special project and that's kind of a neat watch. But since then, they're kind of known for these special editions. We talked about the Numa. They did the Poseidon edition, which was a diving star that was modeled after one they did in the early 70s in partnership with the Swedish dive gear company Poseidon. And they put that logo on the dial. So a lot of limited editions, I think in a way it's kind of a positive that they're getting back to just sort of standard line of watches that you can buy. I think, you know, people kind of get a little bit of oversaturated with limited and special editions after a certain point. Well, for sure, I would agree. But yeah, just, you know, top to bottom, I think that the lineup of dive watches is awesome. I'm curious to see now with this new management, if they'll expand out of dive watches and start doing field watches or chronographs or something. We'll see.
James Stacey Yeah, I think, you know, done correctly, if they're able to retain basically that fun value. There's a lightheartedness to their stuff that I think is special and rare in watches. And I think if they can hang on to that while continuing their ability of just like making a good sports watch, a good reasonably priced steel sports watch, then I think they could do really well, especially at the like, call it $1,000 to $2,000 price point, which is like, it's kind of a weird vacuum between one and even three grand. There's examples where brands have done a really, really good job in there. Like I'd be hard fought to think of a brand that's doing much better than Oris with that price point. Right. True. Um, but it's certainly Longines, but even Longines you want, that's more of like, I attest them to be more dressy. Whereas I want an Oris, they're like, it's sporty, it's steel. They offer great complications, but outside of just a couple of brands, it seems like you could do really well at that sub price point.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. I think, uh, you know, I, I recommend Doxa to, to a lot of people, but I don't like push it on people that are new to watches or just kind of talking casually about watches because it's such an acquired taste. It's such a, a unique look that you're either instantly attracted to it and think, wow, what a cool watch. Or you're, you're sort of like, huh, that's really weird looking. The bezel sits up high off the case. The dial's really tiny. It has this weird case shape and then that beads of rice bracelet. So, um, I think that will always keep the docks of dive watches as sort of a cult. It might be a little bit more narrow than than it is, but more of a niche interest for for watch enthusiasts.
James Stacey Yeah, absolutely. I think I think it's a solid brand that you and I are a huge fan of. Like you said, it may very well be your favorite brand or the brand that you have the most examples of, certainly. And I think that we've already been over like our favorite examples and what we find interesting about the brand. Like I said, we'll do our best to get a sub 200. um in the metal in one of our hands so we can talk about it more on uh on a future episode but I think for the most of it that's Doxa that's that's what we like about them um that you know I wouldn't call I wouldn't call any of their watches cheap certainly the sub 300 was 24, $2,500 that's an expensive watch in my world and uh and and and I think I think that what you get for that money it is great you really get something enjoyable and fun that speaks to the history of dive watches while still being a modern, wearable, ready-to-use thing. And if you want to go deeper, they've got more expensive models and they've got lots of vintage stuff. So I think that's a brand that we definitely should cover in one of these episodes. And now we have, we've got Seiko, we've got Rolex, and now we've got Doxa, which feels like a pretty strong kind of three-piece play for TGN.
Jason Heaton Yeah, great. I mean, I'm really happy to get back to our our brand focus episodes, and hopefully we won't have to wait for another, what, 75 or so episodes to do another one.
James Stacey No, there's so many brands that you and I love. It's definitely something that we should have kept going, kind of like a collection inspection or that sort of thing. So stay tuned for more if you have an idea of a brand that you think we should highlight by all means. thegraynado at gmail.com. You know, in fact, if you have any feedback at all, I remain available at the email for any email that is asking me what what you should buy. And yeah, this is this is the last episode for 2019. So why don't we round it off with a couple of quick final notes and let you guys get on with your holidays?
Jason Heaton Yeah, I'll kick it off. I recently bought a new bracelet for my old Omega Speedmaster and I was really excited to see this on Instagram. A few different people that I follow have kind of popped up with buying these. There's a guy at Triangulation Station, Tom here basically in Minneapolis, he bought one and then Fratello Watches just did a whole review of these and started posting these and Forstner is an old brand that used to make bracelets back in the, I suppose, fifties and sixties. I don't know the whole history of it, but one in particular that they made was called the JB champion comfit, like comfort comfit bracelet. And it's this funky narrow mesh steel bracelet that has this sliding mechanism that allows you to quickly resize it for your wrist size. And it was a favorite bracelet of the, um, I think the mainly the Mercury and Gemini astronauts because of its quick sizability. And when they were first starting to wear Speedmasters, these bracelets allowed them to kind of quickly size them to wear over their, their space suit, which is really amazing because when you look at it, it has a bit of a dainty sort of delicate look to it. Um, and then certainly later Omega went to, or sorry, NASA went to these very long Velcro straps, um, mainly for use in the Apollo program, I believe. But I picked up one of these. Forstner has been revived. And their only product at this point is this Comfit bracelet. And they're $125. Super cool looking. It has this sort of spring-loaded end piece that fits watches from, I believe, like 16 to... 19. Oh, sorry, 16 to 20. 16 to 20 millimeters. You know, depending on which spring bar you put through it, and then it sort of squeeze this shot if you want to use it in a smaller watch. But it comes in two lengths, so kind of a longer version and a shorter version. I bought the longer version and then just sort of sized that mesh sliding piece to fit my wrist. And then it just has this little sort of fingernail clasp that you sort of squeeze to open. And it's really comfy. It looks great. I haven't tried it on any other watches besides my Speedmaster. But I think it's, you know, given all the historical images you see of You know, Neil Armstrong, Wally Schirra, a lot of these guys wearing this bracelet, you know, in and out of their spacesuit. It's just like, it's a no brainer if you're like a speedy fan or kind of an astronaut geek.
James Stacey Yeah, I would like to get one of these. I don't think I have a watch to put them on. I don't have a speedy. I don't know. I don't know what it would suit.
Jason Heaton I think it would look kind of cool on a Doxa. I mean, in a way, I want to try it. Yeah, it might look pretty cool on an SR. I don't think it would look good on your Rolex or a Seiko. Nor the Oris. Yeah. Hmm. I don't know. I have one of those Boliva oceanographers that it might look kind of cool on. I don't know. I'm going to try it on a few different watches and see how it looks.
James Stacey Why don't we throw it on a Dachshund and put it in the show notes?
Jason Heaton Oh, good idea. Yeah.
James Stacey That'd be fun.
Jason Heaton Yeah. So anyway, that's mine. It's a kind of vintagey strap or band rather for your Speedmaster or, you know, put it on whatever you want and see how it looks.
James Stacey But yeah, for sure. I have one, but I'm going to add in a second one very quickly, as it's a post that literally just went live, written by Jason. It's this in-depth, the watches of James Bond and why they matter. Oh, wow. Don't sleep on this one. They literally just put it live while we're sitting here chatting and recording. I wrote up the new Bond watch, and part of that, they were asking me to write up a history of Bond watches. And I said, I can do that if that's what you want, but we know someone far better at that task. And let me see if Jason would write it. And so I wrote you to see if this is something you'd want to put together. And the outcome, which I've been kind of passively reading while listening to you talk about this Comfit bracelet, is incredible. I think you did such a beautiful job with it. Oh, thanks. This is exactly what we need on Hodinkee. I think this is awesome. It gives a lot of context to the idea of a bond watch and why it's important and why it's such a big thing for Omega. history of dive watches within this character's arc, which I think is a, which is super cool. So I'm going to put that in the show notes. If you somehow miss that, you're listening to this the week after, if you somehow miss that, like go back and read this. It's a, it's a rad post. I'm really proud of, uh, of Jason for putting that together. It's killer.
Jason Heaton Oh, thanks. Yeah. It was a, it was a fun one.
James Stacey My official pick. So earlier this year in September, one of my favorite bands, Wolfpack, who I've talked about on the show before, and I know that there's a lot of listeners that enjoy the band as well. They, did two shows sold out at Madison Square Garden. And they just recently released the whole video of the performance. And it is... I mean, it's joy and talent in audio format. It's the most fun... I've been having a very stressful week and I basically just sit at my desk and write with this playing in my ears. And it's quirky. It's very Wolfpack. I mean, they're weird and they're doing whatever they want to do. But you can tell they are so overjoyed to be playing at Madison Square Garden. And they play all the stuff that you'd want them to play. They do it beautifully. All the guys are there. It's full of some bonkers special guests. It's an hour and 45 minutes long, and it's worth every single second and I'm sure some of you will get to the end of it and just let it roll over and play it again. I can't wait to get home and plug it into a decent stereo and listen to the audio then. I like a good live performance when it's done properly and this one appears to be done properly. And you know, I'm a huge Wolfpack fan. I think that their, their music is in many ways, like has some of the charm of like a doxa, like it's lighthearted and it's fun, but there's so much talent and thoughtfulness in the delivery and the creation and, and, and everything. And this is a group of people that are just operating at a very high level in terms of their musical ability and their ability to work together and leverage each other's skills. And it's an, it's a, it's an event. I highly recommend it.
Jason Heaton Huh? Well, that's, that's really high praise. And I, I'm going to give this a go right after we click off here. I have this sort of, not built in skepticism, but I guess it's very hit and miss how bands do in live recordings. Some bands are made for studio recording, period. And you hear them live and it's like, eh, it doesn't sound right. And some bands really excel live. I'll be interested to hear this. I don't I don't know much Wolfpack other than what you've recommended in the past.
James Stacey So I mean, I mean, like they call it some sort of like it's funk adjacent. It's you know, if the Pointer Sisters backup band still existed today, something like that. But it's a bunch of it's a bunch of guys from Ann Arbor, Michigan and thereabouts, and then a bunch of people that they collaborate with to make this these, you know, it's a wide range, but it is, you know, sort of funky R&B crossover. It's hard to describe. And I would say just just give it a listen. I think you pick up kind of on their energy pretty quickly. And, uh, uh, yeah, I, I love it. It's a, it's incredible. I'm really weirdly proud of them. I feel like I've been following them long enough to really appreciate their arc into being able to sell out Madison square gardens and that sort of thing. So this is killer. I would have literally killed to have been at the show. I was, uh, I was traveling at the time, uh, and couldn't make it. But, uh, if you want something to do with an evening of your time, that's, maybe not as gritty as a modern television show or something like that, maybe lean into this and see what you think of it.
Jason Heaton Good one. Well, this is it. I mean, this was this was the end of TGN 2019.
James Stacey Yeah, this is Jason and I signing off. As always, thanks so much for listening. We'll catch you back January 2 with one episode closer to 100. And thanks to Hodinkee for supporting the show and to all of our advertisers who we listed at the top of the show. We couldn't Be more thankful for your involvement, for your support of the show. And then to everyone listening, again, the same thing. We don't do this without you. We want to do it because of you. Thank you very much for a fantastic year. The best year in the history of the show, certainly. And I think 2020 is going to be great. We'd love to meet more of you, interact with more of you, and really find some outlets for additional fun and additional excitement. Hit the show notes via Hodinkee.com or the feed for more details about this episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton, at J.E. Stacey and the show at TheGrenado. Should you have any questions for us, please write TheGrenado at gmail.com and then we'd appreciate if you subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music throughout as always is Siesta by Jazzer via the free music archive.
Jason Heaton And we leave you with this quote from Samuel Beckett who wrote, ever tried, ever failed, no matter, try again, fail again, fail better. Good words for the end of a year and going into the new year. So happy holidays everyone from TGN. All the best.