The Grey Nato - Episode 09 - "Open Water Certifiable"
Published on Tue, 24 May 2016 09:00:43 -0400
Synopsis
The episode covers Jason and James' background in scuba diving - how they got into it, the gear they use, and some of their favorite dive experiences. Jason was inspired to learn diving after getting an Omega dive watch, while James had wanted to dive since childhood after moving closer to the ocean. They discuss selecting beginner vs. used gear, sharing recommendations on dive computers, regulators, buoyancy compensators, fins, and masks. Jason recounts memorable dives like exploring shipwrecks in Lake Superior and the Caribbean, while James talks about diving with sharks and sea turtles in Hawaii. The episode aims to encourage listeners to try scuba diving.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Welcome to Episode 9 of The Grey Nado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, gear, and most certainly watches. I'm Jason Heaton. |
| James Stacy | And I'm James Stacy. Today we're talking about how we got our start in diving, why we love it, the gear we use, and some of our best dives. Later, we've got a healthy dose of Q&A. Both of us are back from some adventuring and you better believe we've got some fully fresh final notes. Today's topic is diving. You know, we wanted to give some background on how we got into diving and some of the things we learned along the way. Jason's been diving for years. I've been diving for a few years. You know, what we're really hoping to do is, I think, encourage people to give it a try. I think it's an underappreciated sport. I think there's a handful of people who have. kind of an experience with it and a few that have tried it maybe on vacation and then a whole group of people who think that it, you know, it looks interesting in video or things like that, but then don't actually give it a try. And I'm hoping we could talk some of you off the couch and into your first dive experience. Jason, let's talk about how you got into diving. You've been diving for many years. Where did it start? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I've been diving about 10 years. I got my start in 2006. I've got about probably upwards of 400 dives now. I, you know, initially I was one of those people that, you know, kind of was always intrigued by diving and I, I loved watching videos, looking at photos, reading books about it, but I, you know, I just wasn't, uh, I don't know that I was confident enough to kind of make the move. I thought that it was going to be a pretty intimidating sport to get into. I think it kind of is an intimidating sport to get into, but you know, the, the great tie in, I think, especially for, for our listeners and for the show is that The reason I actually got into diving was because I had an interest in dive watches. You know, as I've talked about in earlier episodes, I, I got my start in watches when I was back in high school, I got a Seiko dive watch. And then back in 2006, I, I picked up my first, I guess what you'd call high end dive watch, which was the, the Omega planet ocean. And I just felt like if I own that watch, I, it was like, I was looking at that watch and I thought, I really need to learn how to dive if I'm going to wear this thing. So I, you know, I, Kind of consulted a friend of mine who'd just gotten certified and he talked me into signing up for it. And, you know, I did my first, um, open water certification right here in Minneapolis, did the pool sessions and kind of some murky lake dives and got open water certified and then moved on to, to my advanced open water a year or two later. And then ultimately did a rescue diver certification, um, a few years back, probably in 2009. And, uh, did an ice diving certificate, uh, specialty certification. So I've, I kind of just did all my stuff locally, just one after another. Um, as my comfort level grew and you know, that's, that's really where I got my start. I, I agree with you that, that there are just a lot of people that kind of need that nudge. And I think, you know, the people that I've talked to and the people that I show photos to and talk about my trips, they kind of, I don't know if they share the enthusiasm, but they kind of get really intrigued by it. And I think the more. we talk about it on the show and the people we chat with about diving, it does encourage people to just kind of take that step. And if you give it a try, whether it's on one of these Discover Scuba courses that you can do on a vacation where you don't really have to do any extensive training, you know, I definitely would say it's worth a shot. It's, it's, it probably is as close to space travel as any of us will ever get, uh, at least in the, in this generation. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I would entirely agree. In my case, I'd wanted to dive since I was a really little kid. You know, my, my mom, showed me not that long ago, like a hand-drawn kind of crayon drawing from when I was a kid about what we thought we would do, like as a profession. Yeah. And mine, I was an underwater photographer taking pictures of sharks. I guess I was four or five when I drew that. Oh wow. And, uh, you know, I kept, uh, fish all, all while I grew up. And, um, and I remember buying, buying like little Playmobil and Lego divers and loving all of that. But, you know, I grew up in Ontario. There's not really access to an ocean, I didn't, I would have lived quite a long way from even the nearest recreational diving areas. So it never made sense. But, uh, in my, you know, once I was an adult, I moved to Vancouver, I'm minutes from the ocean and a lot of really interesting cold water diving. And I got certified right away. What finally gave you the push? It was, I literally got to Vancouver and, um, I had a cousin in town, uh, who was also interested in diving. Yeah. But I would have done it either way. Like I was now close enough to the ocean that I was just a few hundred dollars away from getting into it. I didn't realize the rabbit hole of gear that it is when I started. And it's probably good that they didn't tell me. It is like to do cold water, it's quite expensive. Yeah. But, you know, I still do semi-frequent diving around Vancouver. I'm always trying out new spots whenever I get a chance. Arranging dive buddies is probably largely the biggest issue. At least you save on travel. Yeah, it's all shore diving. Yeah. So it's a short drive. I pick up a couple of tanks and I can be at anywhere from a wreck to a big wall in no time. There's lots of shallow dives if that's what you prefer. There's some great places to learn. Yeah. I went almost immediately, like within just a couple of months from my open water to my advanced and I haven't done any more training yet, although I intend to get my rescue at some point. I think that's kind of the natural progression. I think anything beyond a rescue is more just for having things to do, kind of collecting badges if you will. Yeah. Uh, but I do think the rescue is very important and something that I should do is just, uh, you know, you get busy and, and, and you just want to dive. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. Yeah. Well, I can't wait to get up to Vancouver this, uh, this July. We've got our plans to, uh, to do a little bit of hiking and then some, some diving up there. I'm really excited to check out your backyard there. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, we've got some good stuff, uh, good stuff planned. I think, you know, take you on some big wall dives, try and see some big octopus or some trying to get to Try not to get too scared of the lingcod, stuff like that. Yeah. And for gear, so I have one thing that I could, I could pass on and Jason, you've bought more gear than me and you've had to deal with living with more gear than I have. I'm still on my original set. Uh, you know, it's just a couple of years old, but my tip when buying gear is actually the same as when buying gear for almost anything. This is, let's say you want to get into photography or you want to get into adventuring or diving or whatever. If you can't afford what is largely considered to be the best, or you don't see the value in the best at the time, ask your dive shop or somebody who knows what they're talking about, what the best backup is. Oh yeah. And buy that. So with the dive gear, like I still haven't come to the position where I want to buy a Sola flashlight. They're these very expensive, really, really fantastic flashlights. Yeah. So what I did was I simply bought a really good um, LED backup light. So when I do eventually get the solar, there's no waste in the original investment in that backup light. |
| Unknown | Sure. |
| James Stacy | The exception to that would be regs. Just go ahead and buy yourself proper regs the first time and then spend your money on servicing them. But pretty much anything else can grow with you. If you start with a rental BCD, when that one wears out and they work fine, you can dive very well in rental gear, despite what a shop may tell you. When it wears out, then you could move on to a back inflate or, you know, plate and wing set up, et cetera. I use, for my BC is a Ziegel Stiletto. It's a lightweight travel BC that's still capable of enough lift for dry suit diving. Again, dry suit diving, considering full failure. So if I had a big zipper blowout, I still have 34 pounds of lift from the vest and that's before I drop weight. So you can get out of trouble. and not necessarily, you know, their next one up is the Ranger from Zegel. And the Ranger is quite a bit heavier and would make it harder to say, take it on a trip, things like that. Yeah. I use a scuba pros. One of their premium lines is the S 600 reg. Um, my computer is a Suunto Zoop, which is an entry-level computer. And I think it's the one that pretty much everyone should consider buying as their first computer. Definitely. I have a Cressi mask. I think it's a mantis, uh, One mask is not better than another mask. Pick the one that fits your face really just to the most comfort. If you're lucky and it's a cheap mask, it'll work just as well. If you get to the point where you're, you know enough about the way you feel while you're diving that you can tell the difference between a low volume mask or one that doesn't have split eyes, like split lenses, then so be it. But I think to start out, there's a lot of great masks at like $30 to $40. I didn't pay much more for the Mantis. And then I know Jason, you like force fins. I exclusively use split fins. So this is one of those like debates that exist on dive forums all over the world. But I use these Oceanic, I think they're the V12 split fins. We have a lot of surface swims in Vancouver because it's all shore diving. And I find those allow me to swim sometimes hundreds of yards with very limited like leg fatigue. So what I lose in push power, I don't go inside wrecks and stuff. So I don't need necessarily the same amount of agility that you'd get from a force fin. You make up in just general comfort. And I've really grown to love those fins. Whatever fins you buy, the big upgrade isn't necessarily the shape of the fin. It's the strap. You want a spring strap, not typically super expensive, but it just means that you can put the fin on and off with one hand and you don't have to worry about the rubber or the silicon or whatever the strap is made out of wearing out and breaking and you can actually take the Straps that came with the fin and use them as a backup Just in case so that's always a good investment as well Jason know like I know you've talked on previous episodes about some of your gear. Where have you landed now? Where did you start? There's got to be a big progression for you over 10 years. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I've I've gone through I'm on my second a set of regulators. I started out with an Apex set, which was the XTX50, which is a pretty high-end cold water. They make really nice rigs. Yeah, I had an issue with some free flow on a cold water dive with that, and it sort of bruised my confidence in that, so I switched that to a backup that I use on a small pony bottle that I use on deeper dives, and it's worked fine for that. And then I switched over to a Maris Abyss Navy, which is their cold water version. And I don't know, the Maris Abyss, for anyone that's kind of just getting into diving, you're looking for your first regulator, I think, you know, everybody swears by their Sherwoods, Guba Pro, Apex, whatever. Maris, the Abyss series is based on a very old design, very tried and true since like, I think the 60s or the 70s. And it's just, it's a great breathing rag. I get, you know, just wonderful, Or a very little breathing resistance down to deep depths with that, with that rag. And I, I encourage people to take a look at the Maris Abyss. Um, I started out with, uh, for the buoyancy, uh, compensator, I started out with a jacket style. They're kind of. Different schools of, of BCDs as they call them buoyancy compensation devices. There's kind of a jacket style that sort of wrap wraps around the front of your body and has some inflation at the front. Um, you kind of wear it like a vest, like a side inflate. Yeah. And it also has, um, more pockets generally. Um, those are the ones you typically find at rental shops when you're on vacation. Um, they're kind of more what you'd call maybe sort of an entry level style, uh, BCD. Uh, and then you move to like a back inflate, which still wraps around the front. You get some pockets and things, but then you get, um, the main inflation bladder is, is at the back, which changes the way you sit in the water. It tends to put you a little more horizontal, which is, the preferred position for diving for optimum buoyancy and for swimming efficiency. And then kind of the more hardcore, the most hardcore style is what they call a back plate and wing, which is just a rigid plate can be made out of hard plastic or aluminum or sometimes steel. And then what they do is then they sort of, I don't want to say rivet, but they attach on the bladder on the back of that or the wing, which can then be swapped out for bigger, smaller sizes, depending on the type of diving you do. And those are the ones that a lot of the tech divers use. Um, it's kind of ultimately where I've ended up. Um, I use, uh, uh, it's from a dive, right? It's called the Transpac XT. It's a, it's a nicely configurable backplate wing setup that has, uh, um, some nice, you know, thick webbing metal hardware. Uh, it's got a crotch strap, which, which is nice. So it doesn't ride up when you're on the surface. Um, a lot of attachment points. It's got a modular. weight pockets that you can put on it and pockets and things like that. Um, so that's kind of where I've ended up with a BCD. I've gone through probably three BCDs. I would say for someone starting out, a really good BCD is one that I still have and kind of has a, have as a backup and that's, it's made by Aqualung and it's called the balance and it's a back and flight BCD. So it gives you that nice positioning of the water, but it also gives you some pockets on the front. Uh, it's a really popular BC. And it's not terribly expensive. So that's one that I would recommend. You mentioned the force fins. Force fins are something, you know, when I started diving, I was on about my 10th dive and a good friend of mine who was a long time Great Lakes wreck diver, I was diving with him and I was wearing these kind of big, heavy, long Maris fins. And I was always getting leg cramps and he had the spare pair of force fins that he had from way back. This green pair of funky looking fins and he tossed them to me and said, just keep these, use these, you'll never get cramps again. And I've, I've worn them ever since. And they're just, they're great. They're kind of hard to get actually. There's a, uh, it's kind of a quirky little website run by, it's a one man operation, um, based in California. And, um, the design is a little bit strange on these fins, but once you get used to them, if you, if you like their, their swim characteristics, they're, they're, they're really great for maneuverability. They've got a lot of power to them. Very efficient kicking with with the force fins and then I've got the bungee straps which you know you pull on with one hand and The fins are so short and they're kind of pitched up at the toes that you know Once you put them on you can easily walk to the back of a boat So they're just I swear by them but James as you mentioned, you know, they're not great for for surface swimming You know, I can get by but they're they're not the greatest for that |
| James Stacy | Well, you're certainly not going to be walking around a boat in my split fins. They're like a foot and a half long. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | And you know, I, from below, I probably look a lot like a seal to a killer whale or something like that with those split fins. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And then finally, you know, mask again for, for someone starting out, get, get a mask that fits. It doesn't really matter. Um, some, some people say that for underwater photography, a mask that has a black skirt or the rubber skirt rather than a clear one is better. It doesn't, you don't get light leaking in from the sides. If you're not doing photography, some people like the clear, uh, skirt, uh, you know, silicone skirt because it gives you greater visibility. Just find one that fits. That's the most important thing. I think, you know, there are a few pieces of gear that, that are so vital that you just want to like buy new and spend as much as you can afford on. But for other stuff, you know, wetsuits and fins and masks, you can, you can swap that stuff around as you, as you grow into the sport. I would highly recommend going with, um, rental return gear that a lot of shops have for sale or just finding on scubaboard.com which is a popular diving forum or any other sort of diving forum or craigslist or ebay just buy you know get used gear that looks like it was well maintained have it checked out you can save a lot of money on this stuff and that's the route i've gone with with the dry suits um i have two dry suits now that i use for uh for the great lakes diving that i do around here and it's it saved me a lot of money because a dry suit A new dry suit is pushing $2,000 and I've gotten both of mine for less than, you know, five, $400 for both of mine. |
| James Stacy | So yeah, that's about what I paid for my dry suit as well. And I bought mine off rental. Um, the, once the shop has a certain number of dives on it, they have some impetus to sell it. |
| Unknown | Right. |
| James Stacy | So I simply remembered the number cause I rent, I was renting them and they're kind of expensive to rent, but I remembered the number of the one that fit the way I wanted. Yeah. And then I just kept bugging them. And then they were like, finally, yes, you can buy it. And it was a fair price and I bought it. And I think that's the best way to do it to buy brand new. You just want to be sure that this is something you really want to do because, uh, you know, a dry suit in general used or new is a long-term device. You care for it. It's fairly simple, um, in its construction and it should last a great deal of time as should your regs and your BC everything if cared for. should last a fair amount of time. But I would say with the exception of your regs, you really can go use with just about everything. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I would agree. And like, it's a good point you bring up that, that if you're just starting out in the sport, I would not go get, you know, do your discover scuba dive on vacation in Mexico and then plunk down two grand for a pile of gear. I think, you know, get your open water certification, get a few dives under your belt with what they call kind of your personal kit, which is your, your mask fins and and snorkel and then see where it goes from there and maybe get 10, 20 dives under your belt before you decide that, hey, it's time to make the investment. I guess one last thing, you mentioned your Zoop and I highly recommend and agree with you on the Zoop. I have the previous version. It's the exact same computer. They used to call it the Gecko and that's the computer I started out with. It's really all you need for just about anything but tech diving. It's just got a massive dial and digital interface that just tells you everything you need at a glance, very intuitive to use, very rugged, the battery lasts for years. I happened to get another Suunto, the D9 TX, which is their kind of their top of the line computer. I happened to get that as a review sample and ended up keeping it. And it's great. It does a lot much of what the same thing that the Zoop does. It's just got some extra features to it. But you know, I would hardly recommend plunking down the money for a D9. I would say get Sunto's all I know because it's all I've been diving with, but the Zoop or the Gecko is just a great place to start, I think. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, most definitely. So I think that's probably gear covered. Let's move on to a little bit of storytelling. Jason, give us an idea of your dives that stand out in your mind, a best dive or two. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, so I've had the good fortune of diving in a lot of places. I've been in Milford Sound in New Zealand and Galapagos, and last fall I was in Japan and have been to Sri Lanka a couple of times, and then I've Dived a lot in the Caribbean, but I'm not a really picky diver. You know, I'll go somewhere. I was in Sri Lanka diving, uh, over the winter and I was with a guy who was kind of, uh, complaining a little bit about, uh, you know, you don't see as much fish life or the visibility isn't as good as we get in the Philippines. And I thought, you know, there's something to see on every dive. There's, there's, there's something interesting on any dive, whether it's the topography that you're seeing, maybe it's some interesting stack of boulders or some, you know, um, interesting fish life or a wreck. Um, or maybe, you know, for me, I just like, I just like the sense of being neutrally buoyant. I like just floating suspended in liquid. And it's, it's a very meditative in the moment sort of activity where you just, you're alone with your thoughts. There's no chatter, there's no talking. Um, you're here, you hear yourself breathing. And I just, I enjoy just about any dive I do. And some of my favorites have been just up the road here in Lake Superior. which is kind of my backyard, um, where we get a lot of great wrecks. And, um, of course it's very cold water, but you know, it's the price you pay to, to see these, these pristine shipwrecks. And a couple of years ago I did a, a three day expedition to Isle Royal with a friend of mine where we charted a boat, uh, out of Grand Portage, Minnesota. And, uh, we, we lived on the boat for, for three or four nights and just, just made a big circuit around this, this big Island out in the middle of the lake where there, you know, at least a dozen, really world-class deep wrecks that are really well preserved. And it was just, it was one of those experiences that's just burned in my memory of as a, as a, as a great dive trip. We, it was kind of, it was like camping and, and sort of an adventure and a kind of a bonding experience and then the diving. And it was just a, it was a really wonderful trip and one that stands out in my memory. In terms of the tropical stuff I've done, you know, My wife and I go to Bonaire quite a bit. Bonaire is an island down in what they call the ABC Islands down at the southern end of the Caribbean. It's one of the Dutch Antilles Islands. And we've been there, I think, five times. And it's just, it's some of the best diving because it's, you know, it's all shore diving or most of it is shore diving. So you don't have to charter a boat. You know, it's pretty cheap. It's kind of old school DIY diving where you rent a truck and get some tanks. And you just drive up and down the coastline and park on the beach and wade into the water and swim out to the reef. That sounds so amazing. It's really a wonderful place. So, you know, whenever people are looking for a new place to dive, I always recommend Bonaire as a place to go. Bonaire is kind of, it's one of those places that, you know, I would almost consider one of my kind of favorite places in the world that diving or not, I just like to go back there and just has a certain vibe to it that I like. I don't know, what about you? I know you've done a lot of great stuff in Vancouver and then you had a couple of other trips a little further afield. |
| James Stacy | Uh, yeah. So, I mean, my, I've, I've done a handful of diving around Vancouver, uh, the really local stuff. There's, you know, kind of an, a highway that runs north south up to Whistler essentially. And, uh, along, uh, Howe Sound, every town has a little spot where you can get in the water. A lot of it's wall diving because it's just mountains that come right down to the water. Not unlike Milford Sound, maybe a little bit less dramatic than what those photos look like. So along there, there's a dive called Kelvin Grove. That's an absolute favorite of mine. I'll definitely be taking you there when you come. At the end of the dive, it's a very deep wall dive. You can go as deep as you want. Hundreds and hundreds of feet if you felt like it. But it's a deep wall dive. There's all sorts of critters in the wall. It's very zen because It's typically, the visibility is typically fairly good. Um, but it's always a little dark. And, uh, so you're using your flashlight. You can almost always find an octopus or two. It's a great dive. And then at the end, you come into a little bay where you started and, uh, you do your safety stop just kind of in this sun bathed pool of water. That's full of these little silver fish. Oh, nice. And, uh, once you've been sitting for a minute or so of your safety stop, they come back. Hmm. And they're not scared of you and they just kind of swirl around you. And it's like being in an entirely different sort of state because you're not paying attention to how long your safety stop has been. You're just kind of appreciating the visual elements and you always kind of time it. So there's some sunlight coming over the mountains. So you're getting fairly direct sunlight. And that's a fantastic dive. I've done that three or four times. It's fairly repeatable, which is nice for a Vancouver dive. And then I had an absolutely amazing dive in a handful of amazing dives in Hawaii I was on Oahu and we dove in Waimanalo Bay just outside of Waikiki and I was with I think it was Island Divers and it was a very fair price and they took you out on a boat and the dive we were doing was called the LCU which is a World War II landing craft so not unlike the start of Saving Private Ryan. |
| Unknown | Oh sure. |
| James Stacy | But it It's not the personnel size landing craft. It's the one that would be behind them with tanks and jeeps and stuff in it. Oh, wow. And so they sunk one of those at about a hundred feet on the sand, but it flipped on the way down. So it's like a big cardboard, a big metal box sitting face down. And it was the first time that I had ever dove and experienced like near unlimited visibility. Oh, wow. So like maybe previous to Hawaii, the best I'd ever seen was say 50 feet. And, uh, I jumped in, it was a negative entry drift dive. So I jumped in and you're instantly dropping, which is awesome. And the first thing I remember is, you know, I could see the bottom from two feet under the water, uh, which was unreal. And then there's this big metal box beneath you and it's covered in all these shimmering barracuda and sea turtles. The current's very strong. So it feels a bit like a slow motion skydiving. Huh. And you come in and as soon as you're 10, 15 feet off the deck, you get a drop in the current. So it lets up a bit. And then you can go inside the, the LCU and it's just full of, you know, little, little black tips, just, just doing slow circles around you. They have no, they don't care at all that you're there and you could just chill. There's maybe 20 sharks in there. Yeah. And, and it's all backlit because there's kind of entry and exit areas on all four sides. So you get all, you get all sorts of light play. And I'll never forget that, you know, it was my first time with a shark in the water, sharks. Yeah. And it was just an amazing experience. And then after a few minutes, you know, the, the, uh, instructor who was fantastic, had a noisemaker and made some noise and we all regrouped and went up to 50 feet and got back in the current and ripped along another, you know, five, 600 meters and dropped back down on top of a second wreck. There was a big sandbar shark. He was pretty scary. He was big, great big shark, but he bailed as soon as we came down. Huh. And then, so we went around this kind of large catamaran again, it was all just full of sea turtles and you could go all the way inside one of the halls, which was awesome. And then a third wreck, so back up to 50, rip along for a little bit and then back down. And then just a marker ascent and the boat came and picked us up and it was just an absolutely perfect dive. I mean, if I would just repeat that dive again and again and find the little nuances. But I think about it all the time. It was a fantastic dive. I did some diving in Mexico as well, but it wasn't anywhere near as good as what I experienced in, um, in Waimanalo Bay. And there's diving everywhere in Hawaii. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I think, I think, uh, I'm partial to wrecks. I think shipwrecks are, I don't know, there's just something, I mean, reefs are great. Um, I'm not any anywhere close to being a biologist or, or don't have much, I shouldn't say interest, but, um, I don't have the, uh, patience or attention span, I guess, to focus on a lot of the little stuff that people like to take macro photos of. I'm, I'm really, I just love the sort of wide angle, incredible views you get on, on big shipwrecks. And of course, that's why I like the Great Lakes diving. But I, you know, sharks are great too. I mean, that's one thing I think when people, you know, talk about or ask about getting into diving, one of the first things they ask is, you know, what about sharks? You know, aren't they scary to see them? Or have you ever seen them? You know, I've been diving with lots of different kinds of sharks, hammerheads, bull sharks, tiger sharks, reef sharks, everything but great whites almost. And I think, ironically enough, when you're down in the water column looking eye to eye with a shark of any sort, maybe with the exception of a great white, I haven't had that pleasure yet, it's actually a more calming or comforting experience than if you're up on the surface, say on a surfboard or swimming, uh, wondering what's below you or just sort of presenting a, a flapping silhouette, uh, to something below you. And. Agreed. Yeah. I mean, we were in, um, the Bahamas a few years ago, sort of shadowing a group that was researching, uh, long line fishing off of Eleuthera and they were catching and tagging, uh, tiger sharks to release. And I, I was on the boat and they had this 10 foot tiger shark on the hook next to the boat, they were measuring it, taking blood samples. And I had this underwater camera and I just made this decision like, okay, I'm going to back roll on the other side of the boat, very small boat, and just go down below it so that when they release this shark, I'll take pictures of it as it's swimming past. And I got below this thing and I suddenly, it was almost like I, I, I back rolled in with, without thinking about it. And then once I was underwater, I thought, was that kind of a stupid thing to do? Cause I was on my own. And I was there with this camera, but it was like just above me and they released this shark and it was just this magnificent thing. It was like an airplane. It just, it cruised right over me. It was kind of pissed off because it had been, you know, on a hook and had blood drawn and the whole bit like totally understood. It was a little intimidating, but I, you know, I, I think for, for, for sharks, you know, again, with, with the exception of really, really big sharks, um, a six foot tall, six foot long person with a, you know, metal tank on his back, uh, blowing bubbles is a very unappealing target as opposed to a two foot or three foot long fish in a big school that is much easier pickings than, than I would be. Um, and you know, I think it goes, it goes, it's the same with any sort of predator in nature is they, they tend to pick on the ones that will cause them the least harm or present the least risk to them when they're hunting. And I, Presumably would be a greater risk than a smaller fish. |
| James Stacy | And so yeah, there's a there's an inborn sense of efficiency Yeah, that that we don't respect with our fear and I mean the fear is very much like a commercial thing with sharks I'd like I I would if I ever have the opportunity would be an absolute bucket list Item for me to dive with a great white. I would do it in a cage. Yeah, but that's more because I I don't know that I would be, I know now currently I'm not, but I don't know that I could ever become a good enough diver that I could manage all the things you have to manage as a scuba diver while confronting something that for 30 plus years I've been told is a killer. Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's adrenaline to keep in mind and all sorts of things like you really, the, you know, diving rewards, the patient slow minded rehearsed behaviors. Yeah. Not the gut reactions. Right. You know, when I did my, when I did my advanced dive, it was early January, my advanced deep dive. So, uh, we're doing some of this. Most of these chats are for people who haven't really gotten into diving yet. If you're a seasoned diver, I apologize for kind of the lower level we're going to keep it at, but we're trying to pitch the concept to a wider audience. You're already sold. So we'll go diving sometime. When you do your advanced certification, you do a deep dive, uh, to 30 meters. And we had done our deep dive and we were coming back up on a kind of a great big rope line that went up to a buoy at a Porto Cove in Vancouver, which is a government park, like a provincial park where they have a bunch of wrecks. It's fantastic. And we're coming up the line and this was my very first experience with a large aquatic animal. So I had done maybe 15 dives at this point, maybe 20 at the most. And we're coming up the line. I've got one hand on the line. I'm looking at my computer, making sure I'm not ascending faster than my slowest bubble, et cetera, et cetera. And I've got another guy from our team about 10 feet away from me when a big gray shadow goes right between us. But it's moving so quickly that my brain doesn't even attempt to register what it is. And so you crank your head around and it's a big sea lion, probably eight or nine feet long, a monster who's huge. And he was just real curious. He had a big goofy look on his face and he made a few slow circles. You know, they're like a giant puppy, these animals, but they, you know, they move in the water in a way that your brain isn't trained. You know, like humans are really designed to watch from their feet to six or seven feet up for predators. Yeah. you know, from a biological level. And when one of these guys go by you, like it's, it's a bit of a rewriting event for your, the math that your brain operates on. And I remember my brain just kind of skipped a beat. And then I went, Oh, look, there's a sea lion. Oh, that's really cool. And he kept eyeballing us. And he would went and sat over on a wreck for a little while and watched us. It was a really, really fun experience. But I remember thinking like, man, you just don't, you have to develop that framework for the environment. Yeah. In kind of pieces. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like, I think like to come face to face with a great white for me would be too many pieces at once. Yeah. It'd be overload. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, you know, talking about that sense of surprise or that, that, uh, bit of fear or whatever you call it when you're diving with these new experiences, we, we, when we go to Bonaire, it's a, it's a really great place to do night diving. And that's another thing that people that are new to diving, tend to ask about. It's like, isn't that scary? Well, it is and it isn't. I mean, navigating can be a bit of a challenge, but it's sort of like, uh, night diving is really cool because it's, it's almost like walking in the forest, uh, at night with a flashlight, you know, you, you, very sensory limited, you see what's in the beam of your flashlight. Um, and, and so we, we tend to go out around dusk in Bonaire, which the sun sets about 615, 630. We go out at about six o'clock, so you hit it just as the sun's going down, you get enough light, you can kind of see, but then by the time your dive's done, it's pitch black. And, you know, we put flashing little tubes, you know, little flashing LEDs on the back of our tanks and everybody has a flashlight, kind of stick close together. Um, but what's really cool is that in Bonaire you get these big schools of tarpon, which are, uh, if you're not familiar with a tarpon, it's a big scaly silverfish that can be, yeah, it's a sport fish. They, they, can get to be, you know, eight, nine feet long, more typically four to five, six feet. Um, and they're, they're night hunters and they love, uh, night dives because the, the, our flashlight beams tend to show them where the fish are and, and smaller fish are either attracted by the beam of our flashlight or, um, at least they're, they're more visible in the beam of our flashlight. So these tarpon, you'll be, you know, swimming along underwater with your, with your, your flashlight. And the tarpon will just come out of nowhere and zip into the line of your, the light of the beam of your flashlight and pick off these smaller fish right in front of you. And it's, it's very spooky. It's very kind of disconcerting, but it's, it's the sensory rush that, you know, they're not going to hurt you, but it's like they come so close. It's almost like being brushed by a big dog or something. They kind of whoosh past you, um, right into the beam of your light. And, and because they're, they have this really silvery skin that the scales It's very reflective and they have these really prismatically sort of reflective eyes as well. It's just the most incredible experience. Again, all of these experiences that we're describing are things that you will really only ever be able to experience scuba diving. I can't stress enough how exotic the experience of diving can be as opposed to anything else you experience on Earth. You're floating weightless, your life support systems on your back. You could be, you know, a hundred feet deep looking at very alien species. And it's no wonder that a lot of James Cameron movies are, have creatures in them that were inspired by, by underwater animals. I mean, it's, it's what he's a, he's a passionate diver and, and the underwater world is very alien. It's, it's just a truly spectacular. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | And I think a lot of you that are listening to this and think like, well, I don't live anywhere near. a big body of water, but I also don't want to go all the way to my trip in Mexico and then spend any time diving in a pool. I think you'll be surprised that if you live near a pool, there's a chance that there's a few divers in your neighborhood that may be doing training and you can actually do your pool sessions locally and your certification dives on vacation. So while your wife or your husband or whomever is by the pool doing whatever they want to do, reading a novel, You can go on a couple of discovery dives or simply have pre-done your pool work and you're now ready to do your fun dives and your kind of proving sessions where, you know, there's some drills they run you through in the water. Yeah. But the guides will get those drills done and they'll make sure that you experience like the fun of diving in the tropics. And I think that's a really compelling way to do it. I have some friends that have done it that way. And I mean, I don't personally think there's any shame in being a quote-unquote vacation diver. If you go on vacation every year and you like to go to the tropics, you could just dive there. I don't think you have to feel a need to take on cold water until you get to the point where that wreck feels like you got a little itch, like I got to go do that. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. I agree. I think, you know, dive what interests you and dive what's comfortable for you. You know, warm water diving has a lot of advantages. You're wearing a lot less, you're wearing less weights. Um, the visibility is typically better. There's a lot more life usually. Um, not always, but, but usually, um, and I, I, I also think, you know, a lot of people are like, Oh, you know, what about depth and deep diving? Well, you know, you can certainly go deep. I've been to, you know, 165 feet, I think was my deepest dive. And, and, but it's, unless there's something compelling to, to go down there and see like a wreck. Most of the cool stuff is shallow. I would say within, you know, between 30 and 50 or 60 feet. Um, if we're talking meters, you know, what is that? Uh, you know, 10 to 10 to 20 meters. Um, you tend to get the most life. It's, it's also the most visibility. You get more bottom time because your air lasts longer. Uh, and your, your no deco limits are much, uh, much longer as well. Um, so dive shallow, dive warm. There's no shame in it. And, uh, Um, yeah. |
| James Stacy | And, and yeah, just do what's comfortable. Exactly. And, and, you know, to wrap up before we move on to new business, I would say that, uh, the thing that comes up the most often for me is people ask, you know, is it, you know, uncomfortable or hard? And the answer is it should be neither. Uh, it should be easy and fun and very comfortable. And, uh, and it is exceedingly safe. Yeah. It's not as safe as sitting on the couch, but I don't know, you're listening to this podcast. How much do you really sit on? Like, I don't know. Uh, if you're interested in this, As far as, um, kind of really interesting, life-changing new environment experiences, it's very safe. You can be trained to do whatever level of diving you're interested in. And, uh, I think there's a whole new level of experience as far as adventuring that's open to a diver that isn't open to someone who doesn't, uh, you know, give it a try. So as long as you don't have any medical limitations that would keep you from diving, I genuinely encourage you to give it a try. Cause it's, uh, it's just so much fun. |
| Jason Heaton | I agree. Yeah. Get out there and do it. |
| James Stacy | All right. And we're back with new business. So this is where we break down things we've been working on, fun we've been having lately, you know, cool things we found, et cetera, et cetera. Jason, take it away. You've been, you've been diving. Tell us about it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Well, appropriate to this main topic today. I just got back actually two days ago from Curacao, which is another one of those ABC islands I was talking about. It's one of the Dutch Antilles down in the southern Caribbean. It was my first time there. I was on a kind of a little press trip with a small group of journalists invited by their tourism board to experience the island. And I have to say it was a great time. It has a lot of the same feel that Bonaire has. It's a very arid island. They don't get a lot of rain. So you get, you actually get cactus and very thorny bushes and you see a lot of iguana running around, um, scorpions and things like that. Um, the diving is, is really spectacular. Um, on par, if not better than Bonaire. It's a really great visibility, warm water, 82 degrees. I'm not sure what that translates into in centigrade, but it's, uh, you know, we're talking shorty diving, you know, shorty wetsuit diving and great stuff, really healthy reef. system there. We dove on the last day, in fact it was our last dive, we dove a shipwreck that sank in 1978. It was called the Superior Producer and it was a cargo ship that was loaded up with just about anything you can imagine from whiskey to clothing to toys and things like this that was bound for Venezuela which is only 40 miles away actually. And it had set out of the harbor, I think it was in December of 78, And it was just overloaded and it didn't get, didn't take long before it, it, uh, it actually, um, it started taking on water and it sank just outside the Harbor. And it's sitting in a hundred feet of water, uh, fully upright and visibility is great. There's a big school of tarpon that live on it. And we, um, you know, we got a good, uh, you know, it was a good 40 minute dive on it. And it was, it was really great. Um, and then watch related. On that trip, I actually had the great pleasure of taking the new Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore Diver Chronograph, which is a watch that AP introduced at SIHH back in January. And it came in, I want to say, three or four colors. I had the orange version. It was a fun watch. It's interesting because that watch should not work as a dive watch. It's got an internal bezel, which I think we've talked about on previous shows, is just not ideal for real-world diving. The chronograph is just a 30-minute chronograph, so you can't really use the chronograph for timing dives. But it's just a cool watch. It's chunky. It's got a wonderful rubber strap. I've rarely gotten as many compliments or comments on a watch as I have wearing that one. So it was just really fun. It was a fun watch to wear for a week and it was an extra pleasure to be able to actually take it diving. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I got to see that watch at SIHH and it's just so cool. Maybe not the ideal dive watch like you said, but like just as a watch and especially being AP, it's really, it's fun and youthful and it's right in so many kind of really fun ways. There's a handful of different color versions. I'm really jealous that you got to take it diving. I mean, even just for the fun of... It's a very expensive watch. It's just kind of fun to take diving and to have on that sort of adventure. It's really cool. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And then, you know, just today, actually, I got in another cool watch, which was the... It's from Bremont, and it is their Regatta piece, the one that they made. It's a limited edition for the Oracle Team USA, America's Cup sailing team. And I got the black dial version. They made a few versions of this watch, actually two versions of the Oracle Team watch. But it has the discs for doing a regatta countdown. It's got a great rubber strap. It has that cool titanium case and the nice knurling on the side of the bezel and on the crown. It's just a really sharp sports watch. And, you know, like I said, I just got it in today. It was one of my favorite watches from Baselworld. And I've got it in for about a week and I'm just, I'm really looking forward to, to taking that one for a spin. And I'll be, I'll be reviewing that one for Hodinkee and that review will be coming out in a couple of weeks. |
| James Stacy | If you go back, you can actually listen to an interview we had with Giles English of Bremont about that watch and more. It's in the previous episode, our Baselworld kind of megasode. So you can go back on SoundCloud and pick up kind of our shared impressions on the OT USA and, and you know, hear the voice of the guy that designed and got it out to people's wrists this year. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it's a cool piece and I'll try to, you know, we're going to answer a question a little bit here about objectivity when it comes to doing watch reviews and this is a watch that I love just from the start so I'll be definitely looking to take a good look at it and give it a good spin. Well, that's my new business. James, what's new on your side of the border? |
| James Stacy | Oh, so for me, my main thing since the last episode is I've been slowly progressing more and more towards being ready for Mount Baker in about five weeks, five and a half weeks. And part of that was getting a little bit more experience actually doing hike in Alpine style camping. So to that end, I did a night in the Alpine, the wintry Alpine that still exists north of Vancouver, just south of Whistler actually. Provincial Park called Ghirabaldi. So we packed our bags and went into Ghirabaldi Park and all the way to the edge of the lake. This is all frozen. You can see some pictures on my Instagram. And I took a bunch of photos that will be in a Flickr album, which I'll put in the show notes. So feel free to check those out if you want to see the scene. I was living in a postcard for 36 hours. Just stunningly beautiful. We had perfect weather. It was 26, 27 degrees Celsius, very warm during the day. And then it was like somewhere between three and four degrees Celsius at night. So it got fairly chilly. Yeah, I've done lots of car camping. I've done some canoe camping, but I haven't done any, you know, where you have one bag that's fairly heavy and you hike a great distance. This was, uh, going in was about 10, 10 and a half kilometers and about a kilometer, uh, of gain. as far as climb, so not insignificant. And then on the second morning, we packed up camp and we went from the lake, you go up a ridge line to a meadow, and then you go across the meadow and you can go up the slope to kind of famous Vancouver area peak called Black Tusk, which is just south of the Whistler Peak, where the, you know, kind of the main peak chair is for the skiing there. But Black Tusk is this giant volcanic Tusk I mean like you'll see it in the photos if you swing by that Flickr album. Yeah it really stands out. It's yeah it's very much it does stand out it looks a little evil and we hiked up to about 2,000 meters and I didn't bother to go any further I really went up to get a certain photo that I wanted of kind of the scene and everything covered in snow and the mountains. I'll definitely go back in the summer when it's more of a clear route But just in terms of the amount of time that we had, it's a fairly long hike. And we were on snowshoes. It was a lot of loose snow. So we had a lot of fun that way. And I learned a ton about how to pack a bag and how to plan for what you'll actually need versus what I brought. I didn't bring enough of some things. I brought too much of other things. So I really had an absolute blast. It was great. And since I've been back, I've just been spending so much time just kind of perfecting the list of things I'm going to bring with me to Baker and probably for the, you know, I'll go camping again before Baker. And, and, you know, just before you left on your dive trip, you were saying how much work it is just getting everything together. And at the same time, I was, you know, attempting to pack everything you need for what is ostensibly a very small amount of time. away from everything else. And, uh, it is surprising how long these expeditions, what, how much planning these expeditions take. And then you get out there and you realize like, Oh, this doesn't work. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, there's, you almost need as much gear for a single night out as you do for three or four nights out. It's just, uh, how much food and fuel you take and, and it doesn't diminish the amount of time you, you spend planning and packing, you know? |
| James Stacy | Yeah, no doubt. And, uh, so yeah, that, that was basically my, uh, my big thing. I've been working on a few different pieces for, uh, for some watch writing and some car stuff. But I'll bring that up when that's actually out. And the only other thing I have recently was I got I got one of the Erica straps, Jason, you sent one, which I of course, very much appreciate. I got a one with a red stripe for my Explorer two. And it is awesome. Yeah, I love it so much. Uh, you know, I, after I tweet, you know, I, I Instagrammed and tweeted and, uh, Erica had replied that the, uh, the material that with the red stripe is 40 plus years old, which is awesome. It looks great. It's super comfortable. And, um, the sizing with her system, which is, you know, kind of a, uh, it's one long length that folds over on itself and then has kind of a tension, uh, cinch at the end. You can get the sizing just right. It's a little fiddly, but once you get it locked in, it's really comfortable and it looks really cool. It doesn't look like any other strap, which I love. It doesn't even look that much like a NATO because there's more kind of flat hardware. Yeah. Uh, and I really like it. So swing by my Instagram if you want to see it on the, uh, on the Explorer. Otherwise, uh, you can write thegraynadoatgmail.com if you want to try and get one of these straps. Uh, Jason has brought in a limited amount. Yeah, I've got some coming in. Yeah. Yeah, so write in if you're looking for one of those and we'll obviously do what we can there. But that's about it for me. So we can go on to Q&A. We've got some great questions. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and our first question comes from Tyson, who writes, I'm a big fan of your podcast and have unwittingly read a lot of your guys' reviews over the last few years. I'm finally in a position to budget something for a proper watch or two. I'd love to get your opinion on my choices. Tyson's looking at the Oris Diver 65 in the 40mm size and the Hamilton Intramatic in the 38mm size. He says he's a sucker for vintage designs and domed crystals. He's also a southpaw, that's a lefty, with a 6.75 inch wrist, so he needs his choices to be appropriately sized and fairly scratch resistant. So he's liking the Diver 65 for a daily wear watch and the Intramatic for more of a dressier piece. And his question for us is, do we recommend the OEM metal bracelet that comes with either of the watches? And also he has another question as to whether he should check out any other pieces that are at similar price points. He actually picked two watches that are a couple of my favorite vintage style pieces that you can get today. You know, for the past couple of years that Hamilton has had that Informatic out, I often recommend that to people for kind of a sub-thousand dollar vintage style dress watch. I think it just, it looks, it looks right out of Mad Men. You know, it's a very 60s style watch. Perfectly sized, I think. It's got the old vintage Hamilton logo. It's really nicely made. Yeah, and then the Aura 65. I mean, you know, if you've listened to any of our shows, I think we've talked about it on almost every episode. It's just, it's a great watch, the Diver 65. It's one of my favorite pieces. James, I know you've had one written for test. I think you even took it diving. I did. I, you know, speaking about the bracelets, I tend to prefer, by and large, vintage style watches on straps. I just think modern bracelets, even if they're vintage style, tend to still look modern and feel modern. And I think it kind of diminishes the overall vintage appeal that you're going for by buying a watch like that. I think that the Oris rubber is just, it's so good. It just has that old tropic style look. And the Hamilton looks really good on, I think, the stock leather that they sell it with. But both of them, both of the Oris and the Hamilton, I think would look great on, especially the Oris, would look great even on a NATO strap or on a leather strap. So I can't really speak authoritatively on the bracelets since I haven't spent much time with them. I know Oris just introduced sort of that ladder style riveted bracelet, which comes pretty close to a vintage style piece. But like I said, I tend to prefer both on the straps that come with them. James, what do you think about this one? |
| James Stacy | Yeah, you know, Tyson, this is a great question. And those are two A-plus watches to choose. I think they both represent a really strong value in their segment. And to be honest, I can't add much on top of what Jason said, because I almost entirely agree. I haven't seen the AORUS bracelet, or sorry, I haven't tried the AORUS bracelet on my wrist, but I did spend quite a bit of time with a 65 on the rubber, on NATOs, and on my own leather straps. And it's fantastic. I took it diving. That's a great watch. Beautifully made, well-priced, has kind of an appeal that's not like other watches. It stands out not only for Oris, but I think others at the 2000-ish price point. Really impressive watch. If you like the bracelet or you prefer bracelets, I think that watch would work really well on the bracelet, and Oris is certainly capable of making a very good bracelet, so I wouldn't worry about the quality. I think it comes down to personal preference. You'll save a bit of money going with the rubber strap, which I do really like. As far as the Hamilton, I reviewed the 38mm Intramatic. It's a fantastic dress watch. A beautiful timeless style that I think is both kind of subtle and bold at the same time. I do really like how it's almost entirely dial and crystal. It's just a great looking watch. I've seen it on the bracelet and I think personally for me it is such a thin watch. And it is so much dial and so little case that it's easily overpowered by the bracelet. What I would say is if you want to dip your toe into vintage pieces, you really can't go wrong with a 60 Seamaster. There's loads of resources online to learn what to look for as far as the movements and the dial. And what I would actually recommend is if you're not prepared to, you know, the Seamasters will run say between $400 and $1,000, depending on what you find and its rarity and the dial condition and things like that. Another great place to start is just to find sellers offering entry-level vintage pieces that don't need to be perfect to be appreciated. If you swing by a guy like RetroWatchGuy.com, you'll see all sorts of watches, many of them from dead brands, many from brands that, you know, died during the quartz era and now have since come back but are shadows of their previous selves. And these are all going to be watches that are serviced and ready to run, ready for your wrist. but may not have the cachet of say an Omega. You know, the flip side of that is you may not be that concerned with, is this dial 100% accurate? Is this hand 100% accurate? These watchers are just ready to wear. And I think they might have the aesthetic you're looking for. Yeah. And I think a lot of them are really cool. Uh, the guy that runs Ressure watch guy, I don't know him. I haven't bought anything from him. Um, but I watch his site with some anticipation that I will eventually pick something up. He has a really, excellent love of color and very bright and bold watches. And there's so much interesting stuff as soon as you step outside of the kind of narrow view of the enthusiast watch world, which is sometimes feels like it's only Rolex's, Omega's, Tag Heuer's, or sorry, Heuer's, et cetera. Like there's only a few brands that really fit in that pocket of like, buy this and it'll be worth X number of dollars later. Well, or just buy this and love it and wear it all the time. I think there's room for both, but there's, there's a handful of guys, selling interesting pieces online that, again, I don't think need to be perfect to be appreciated. So that's also worth considering. Yeah, that's good advice, I think. And then for our second question, Anders wrote in to ask, he says, because blogs and forums are my main source of watch knowledge information, I'm a little curious about how the world of watch blogging works. He says, how do you get watches for review? Do you buy them or do manufacturers send them to you? How do you stay objective if you get things for free? And how about the watches you don't like? You know, Andrew says that the majority of the reviews he reads are positive. So what happens to the reviews of watches you don't like? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I get this question a fair amount from friends of mine that kind of know what I do with the various websites, magazines and stuff that I write for. You know, I've reviewed watches both that I've bought and own and still own. But most of the time what I do if I want to write a review if there's a watch that's interesting that comes along that I see at Basel or SIHH or just you know hear about I've got a kind of my network of PR contacts at the various watch brands and I'll write to them and ask if they have one available for review and they usually pull a watch out of their collection that they can send and they'll send me a review sample and typically I can spend a week or two with it and then I'll send it back. Now in the case of What I spoke about earlier about going diving in Curacao with the Audemars Piguet, that was kind of a special case. Obviously, if I'm taking a watch diving, it needs to be ensured that it's watertight and all that sort of thing. But I certainly am not procuring watches that I necessarily want to keep. And in most cases, the beauty of the work that James and I do is that we're fortunate that by being able to review a lot of these watches, it kind of scratches the itch uh, to keep buying more watches. And so while our Instagram feeds are full of interesting watches, you know, a very small percentage of those are ones that we actually own ourselves. Uh, you know, as for kind of the most, the most reviews or positive comment, I get that a lot as well. Um, it is certainly tough to be objective in a watch review. I think regardless of who you're writing for, how you get the watch, to review, it's almost impossible to be objective about these things. I think if you were truly objective about a watch review, you'd be putting it on a timing machine and kind of checking its accuracy and maybe its water resistance and not much else. I think watch reviews are by and large very subjective. But I do have my criteria for what I consider to be a good quality watch or a bad quality watch. And kind of my filter is if you see me reviewing a watch or writing about a watch, you know, I probably have a pretty positive sense of it, you know, before I even put a, put a pen to paper. So I tend to not even bother reviewing watches that, that aren't good. I've had cases where I've gotten in watches that, that maybe I don't like, or they don't seem good quality and I'll just, I'll just send it back and I won't write about it. I don't think it's worth my time or, or, you know, reader's time to kind of just read a overly negative review. I do try to point out negatives, if there are any with a watch, whether it's, you know, the size of it or legibility, or maybe it feels like it's priced a little too high for, for the watch that you're getting. Um, but you know, I'm, I'm writing as an enthusiast and I, I kind of came from the background that you described. I, I kind of came up through the forums and I used to just kind of write reviews of watches that I bought, uh, on the forums. And, you know, I, I think this audience is, is not one that's coming looking for necessarily should I buy this watch or shouldn't I it's more they're looking for one person's opinion and that's what I hope that I can present. Certainly you know I've done a handful of what they call advertorial projects where I'm writing for maybe a specific retailer has a custom published magazine that they're putting out or something like that. Now in that case you know yeah there's no illusion that there's any sort of objectivity to it but You know, I never have been one to sort of overly gush about a watch in order to win points with a brand or to score ad revenue for any of the sites or magazines that I write for. So that's kind of my take on it. I think, you know, watches are kind of a unique area that, you know, there just aren't a lot of bad watches in the world other than, or at least in the realm of the kind of the watches we're talking about. The Hamiltons, the Omegas, the Rolexes, the Orises. Certainly if you get into, you know, some of the really cheap stuff that you might buy, you know, at a kiosk in the mall or something like that, but I don't think we're, we're really talking in that space at this point. So, you know, there aren't a lot of really bad watches. And then really what it comes down to is kind of subjective opinion about, does it look good? You know, how does it feel on the wrist? Uh, what, what's kind of the overall appeal of it. So that, that's where I come down on that, on that matter. How about you, James? |
| James Stacy | Uh, yeah, I'm, uh, Anders, I would say I'm in a very similar boat as Jason, you know, I've bought, uh, certainly probably dozens of watches that I've reviewed at this point, but most, The vast majority now are loners from brands that I have for a set amount of time, take photos, videos, maybe take them diving, and then you send them back. From my position, I came into this hobby purely as an enthusiast, and I don't actually see my reviews as being especially objective. I write about the watches because I love them, and this work is only a tiny portion of my living. To that end, not only would I not really waste my time writing about something I don't like, I tend to seek out watches that I'm interested in as an enthusiast, and watches that, you know, other people, whether on Instagram or in my kind of circle of watch nerds, are interested in, and those are kind of the watches I'm drawn to. I'm always willing to experience something new, but for the most part, I request watches that I want to see, like I think any normal person would. So, I mean, if you're really looking for objectivity, there's a bias built into the system before I even get the watch. I specifically wrote somebody and said, hey, can I borrow this? I think it looks cool. I declined to review watches with some frequency. You know, it takes a huge amount of work to produce the photos, the video, the text. And, you know, it's not an immensely lucrative field. So I can't imagine doing all that work for a watch that I didn't find very interesting. And again, I mean, you have to kind of question what's the value of a purely objective review. I guess you would get the specs and like Jason said, maybe some very accurate timing information, maybe a few specs that the manufacturer didn't provide, lug to lug, things like that. And I try and include as many specs as I can collect in my reviews. But for the most part, I think people read my reviews to get my thoughts on a watch, or they see that I'm the author and they skip the review entirely. which of course is fine. When you read a site or number of sites, you get a feel for the different writers. And I think you start to find the people that match your general tastes. And I think that's where the value is. I don't think that you can expect full objectivity in any sort of review, whether it's a car review or, or anything. I mean, maybe, maybe for consumers reports or something like that. Sure. But they're also not reviewing luxury items like watches. I think it comes down to access to an author's perspective, their experience, their opinions, and those resulting from an extended time with that watch. And I think ultimately we're talking about watches. So if you want pure objectivity, then here it is, go buy a $40 G-Shock or an Iron Man from Walmart and move on to some other hobby. I didn't come to this hobby because I'm a necessarily rational person. I came to it because I absolutely love watches. And that's the mode under which I'll continue to produce reviews as long as people will read them and, you know, listen to podcasts and things like that. But Anders, that's a great question. I think it's a very fair question, and I think it's something you should consider whenever you're reading any sort of editorial content. Always question the source, always question the system that brought you that content. But hey, if you have your question, please send it in to thegraynadoatgmail.com. We've been getting a load of questions. I'm working tirelessly throughout the day to get to all your questions and we're going to get as many of them on the future shows as possible. We really love all of the support and the good vibes being sent our way. And we'll be back in just a moment with final notes. All right. And we're back for final notes. This is where we share a couple of things that we think you should check out over the next two weeks before the next episode. So I think we'll start with mine and The first one actually comes to us via a listener, Ted. Ted wrote in saying he wanted to let us know that he started a thread on WatchuSeek about people's watches and the great stories behind them. He started it with his own dive slash family heirloom story, and he's collected a handful of other stories from other WatchuSeek members. He thinks it's a thread that could use a lot more love, and I read through a bunch of the thread over the last couple weeks, and I fully agree. There's some great stories already on the thread and I think a lot of people listening could share their stories. And it's cool, you know, if you have any watch that connects with an interesting story or an interesting story that connects with one of your watches, head over to the show notes and you'll see your watches and the stories behind them link and check that out. Ted, thanks very much for letting us know. I think that one's pretty cool. Next up is an episode of the Futility Closet podcast. This is done through Boing Boing and it's, The title is in 1910, a group of inexperienced gold miners bet two cents that they could reach the top of Mount McKinley, which is of course now Denali officially. And I don't want to go into too much detail because it's not like the whole, it's not a really long excerpt from the podcast. It's just a few minutes, but it tells a really fantastic story about a very early summiting of Denali and some of the kind of crazy background behind the story. So again, swing by the show notes, click that link. It's fantastic. If you're sitting at your desk one morning, you're a little fried out from work, get a fresh cup of coffee, click that link and, uh, and, and check it out. Really cool story. And finally, this is one that I added while we were recording this episode, uh, Jason was talking about Isle Royale. And I remembered that, uh, there's a pretty excellent book about, um, the team that helped develop, uh, Isle Royale and other underwater heritage sites. So the book is called submerged colon adventures of America's most elite underwater archeology team. It's by Daniel Lenihan. Um, and basically it, it chronicles, I'm going to get the name of the team wrong, but it chronicles the, um, the development and work of, uh, the team within the park system that would develop and protect various underwater cultural heritage sites. It's a fantastic book. It's really cool. Daniel Lenihan does a really great job telling the story, but it's everything from Pearl Harbor to Isle Royale to Bikini Atoll, all over, you know, the U.S. and ancillary areas within the U.S. 's purview that they protected so that divers could check them out. And I definitely think it's a great story if you've already been through Shadow Divers, I think this is a great next step. There's some fantastic dive stories in there, a little bit of technology and a lot of history. And by all means, that's one that you should definitely check out. And with that, I pass it to Jason. He's got a great looking collection for you as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that Submerged book is great. In fact, I bought that book at the gift shop at the National Park Office on Isle Royale. So yeah, it was cool that you mentioned that. That's cool. Yeah, so I've got a couple of books and the first one is one that was actually recommended by one of our listeners who happens to be a writer for Fratello Watches, Michael Stockton. And Michael, after our last episode in which we were talking a lot about the Shelby Cobras and Carroll Shelby's contributions to Ford's racing program, he recommended that we pick up a book called Go Like Hell, which is written by A.J. Boehm. And the book covers kind of Ford's all out assault on Ferrari in the 60s and their attempt to develop a car that could beat Ferrari in the big endurance races. And I haven't picked up the book. James, I don't know if you've read it yet or checked it out, but I definitely will give it a shot. It's called Go Like Hell, A.J. Boehm. If any listeners have read it, feel free to write us, let us know what you think of it. I'll certainly be checking it out. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, when Michael wrote in, I quickly added it to my Evernote books list, but I haven't gotten to it yet. That list, thanks to you, largely, is disturbingly long, and I'll never read all of them. But it sounds like a fantastic book, and I read an excerpt on Amazon. It looked great. |
| Jason Heaton | Cool. The second book I've got is one called Sea Lab, and I think there's a long subtitle to it too, but it was written by an author named Ben Hellworth a couple of years ago, and as the title suggests, it's a book about The history of the sea lab program, which was initiated by the U S Navy back in the early sixties. And it was largely overshadowed by of course, the space program at the time. Uh, but I would say it was equally ambitious. They were, they were setting out to establish, um, underwater habitats on the sea floor at various depths over the course of the 1960s. And, you know, in order to do that, they had to come up with, with some pretty aggressive and ambitious. and very dangerous, um, you know, breathing gas mixes and techniques for, uh, living in that, in that saturated environment, uh, in many cases, you know, hundreds of feet below the sea. And, you know, some of the guys that the, the, the Navy divers that, that took part in that program, um, and the doctor who was named George Bond, uh, who kind of headed up the program that the book covers all of these guys. And it was really, it, You know, we've talked about the other book that I like, The Right Stuff by Tom Wolfe, which really covers the space program in about the same era. Sea Lab is kind of the aquatic version of The Right Stuff. It's a book all about these daring divers and this really ambitious Navy program back in the 60s to live at the bottom of the sea. Really a good book, yeah. So cool. And then finally, I just want to give a shout out to a guy that I actually met on the Curacao trip. His name is Brent Rose. And some of you may have heard of him. Brent is, um, I think he's done a little of everything. He's, he's been an actor and a TV presenter. Uh, he does a lot of freelance writing for, for magazines like Wired and Outside and Men's Journal. Um, but he also has done a couple of really interesting video series that you can check out online. Uh, one of his series that he's done for, for Wired Magazine or Wired's website is called Out of the Office or Out of Office. And it's, it's just kind of this, this quirky series of, he's kind of a more of a tech or science writer. He likes to look into kind of interesting things about, um, you know, whether, uh, vaping is more healthy than smoking or whether, you know, what it takes to become a NASA astronaut. And he'll put himself through all of these different scenarios. And then he, um, he produces these, these really great videos. Uh, his current project is called connected States and Brent, uh, for the last 10 months has been living out of a, uh, pretty high tech converted Dodge Sprinter van that he's been driving across the country. He's currently somewhere on the East Coast kind of pursuing adventures and talking to people along the way, uh, kind of trying to get a sense of, of how the American population interacts with each other and kind of trying to find more connection between different groups of people rather than what divides us as a, as a country here in the U S. So check it out. Um, Brent, you can kind of find all of his, his videos and his writings on his website, which is brentrose.com and we'll put a link in the show notes as well. And as always, thanks so much for listening to the gray NATO. Hit the show notes for more details. You can follow us on Instagram. I'm at, at Jason Heaton and James is at, at J E Stacy and follow the show at the gray NATO. If you have any questions for us, please write to the gray NATO at gmail.com or you can hashtag the gray NATO on Instagram. Please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts, or grab the feed from thegraynado.com. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazz Art via the Free Music Archive. |
| James Stacy | And until next time, we leave you with this quote from George Bernard Shaw. The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. |