The Grey NATO - Ep 80 - Vintage Cool Or Too Cool To Wear?

Published on Thu, 09 May 2019 06:00:39 -0400

Synopsis

The podcast discusses a listener's question about when a vintage watch becomes too valuable to wear regularly and enjoy as an everyday object. The hosts discuss how they approach wearing valuable watches, factoring in potential risks of damage or loss, but ultimately conclude that they prefer to use their watches as intended rather than treat them too preciously. They assert that the joy of using well-made objects outweighs concerns about monetary value for them personally, though they acknowledge others may have different perspectives based on financial means or views on collecting.

Transcript

Speaker
Unknown Hello and welcome to another episode of the GrayNado, a Hodinkee podcast. It's a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches, and you know what? This is episode 80, and we thank you for listening. Wow, 80.
Unknown Yeah, right? I was noticing that earlier, and I was thinking when 100 comes we're gonna have to do something special. I don't know what, but...
Unknown Yeah. I'm seeing, I'm starting to see that on the timeline for next year. Yeah. And, uh, and yeah, we'll have to, we'll have to figure that out. I don't know. Yeah. No. Yeah. Maybe a lot crazy live episode or something. Wouldn't that be a great, wouldn't require too much planning. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, uh, what's new, man? How you been?
Unknown Good. Good. Yeah. I mean, I think since we, since we last recorded, uh, let's see, I had just gotten back from Bonaire and we've traveled a bit in between. I, I was just in, uh, California, um, this past weekend, uh, and I went out there for a quick, uh, dive photo shoot out in Catalina Island, which was, uh, it was, it was tough work. I mean, it's, uh, a lot of gear hauling, um, it's, it's shore diving, but it's, uh, um, you're pushing carts around with a lot of heavy gear. And then we, we, we were dry suits. So it was, uh, you're wearing a lot more lead than you would with a wetsuit. And then, um, for sure, it's just, uh, But it was, it was great weather and the shoot went well. And, uh, I always enjoy going out there, the kelp and the, um, some interesting critters. We saw a huge, must've been three or 400 pound black, uh, sea bass, which is endemic to that part of the Pacific. And, uh, just huge. I mean, it's just lurking among the kelp and you come upon it and it's just jet black and it must've been, I don't know, the size of a conference table. Groupers, like the size of a big grouper. Yeah. Just, just huge and ugly and just, just kind of hung there and kind of stared at us, which was really kind of, kind of eerie, but also thrilling. Cause, cause everything else you see there is a lot of kind of little orange Garibaldi fish and.
Unknown Yeah. I like those guys.
Unknown Some other stuff, but, uh, yeah, it was good.
Unknown Catalina is, uh, Catalina is super fun. You, um, did you get to the mini golf or too busy?
Unknown No, no, it was pretty much a hit the ground running and straight through to the end, but yeah.
Unknown Pretty good mini golf for anyone who makes it to Catalina. Some good food too.
Unknown Yeah, we had some good food. Yeah.
Unknown Nice. All right.
Unknown How about you? You were, uh, you were traveling as well.
Unknown I was, yeah. I actually, um, not like, not unlike you, a little cagey about some of the details, but I, uh, I went to, um, I was in St. Louis for a day. Oh, wow. Uh, basically for, to shoot for a special project coming up with, uh, Hodinkee. So, uh, it's an inner, it's an interview project that I can't otherwise say more about. Yeah. Uh, but I, I think it went really well and I think people are going to be Pretty jacked about it. I think like I think it's gonna be a pretty worthwhile use of You know to two flights in 36 hours.
Unknown So well, I've never been to st.
Unknown Louis I mean, it's actually not that far from here and our friends at Manta are based down there and yep Then yeah, I hopped a very early flight out the next morning to to come back to Toronto.
Unknown Huh? Nice I say I have to give I have to give a shout out to a commenter I think it was after our last episode on Hodinkee and And we'll, we'll both have to kind of watch each other on this because someone commented that you and I have a lot of verbal ticks where we say kind of a lot and, and, you know, we're, we're, we're human and we, you know, podcast is very, uh, it's a, it's an audio experience and we're just conversing here. So, you know, certainly we, um, we do have our sort of little verbal ticks as, as the guy called it. And, um, so we appreciate the feedback and James and I will certainly try to, um, not do that.
Unknown all of the mitigated speech, I hear a lot of the repeated phrasing and that sort of thing. From my standpoint, it's something that will be removed very slowly. I mean, we're 80 episodes in. It's tough to do the show while also considering all these words that you shouldn't say. Yeah, true. Or shouldn't say too often, I suppose. Yeah, right. So anything else new on your plate? Anything else going on these days? No. Any adventures coming up?
Unknown Well, we do have a trip. Ghoshani and I have a trip over to the UK. We've been kind of chasing this for quite a while, well over a year, but we have a good excuse to go in early June. And we have an event in London. It's actually at the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich, which I'm super excited about. It's a black tie event in early June. So we're flying in for that, but we're going to go about a week early and do a little road trip over to Wales, to Snowdonia, which is the kind of mountainous, uh, area in, in Wales where, uh, the 1953 Everest team trained or did some of their training. And so we're going to do a little hiking over there, probably stay for three or four days and, um, you know, stay in a little in somewhere and just kind of tramp around. So, you know, between now and then we're leaving on, I think June 2nd or something. So if anybody has any recommendations or advice, um, feel free to hit me up on, you know, direct message on, on Instagram.
Unknown That sounds great. I recognize Snowdonia because it shows up in the occasional UK car review.
Unknown Oh, sure.
Unknown There must be some lovely roads up there. I know that I've caught a catch pool review once or twice up that way. Yeah, I'm excited. So. Well, that's great. It should be great for some photography as well.
Unknown I would think so. Yeah. Assuming the weather's decent, but even even if not, it'll be that sort of moody, moody British weather.
Unknown Absolutely. Yeah. And then the only other thing new for me and kind of kind of connects in with some moody British weather photography is, have you seen this? I can't remember if I put it in Slack or not, but this, you know, Alex, Alex Stroll, who we've covered before. He's an adventure travel photographer, sort of landscape guy. He actually has shot for like Land Rover and Fjallraven and other brands like that. And JLC, yeah, exactly. He recently started, or at least it's recent to me, he recently started Stroll Works. Uh, so his last name is S T R O H L. And, uh, and it's basically like courses on how to work like him or, or learn from people within his space. Yeah. Uh, so I know that you had spoken about the course from Jimmy Chin on Masterclass. Right. Right. And I think this is kind of, it's a little bit more expensive. I don't know. I don't know how it necessarily like ties in as far as like how big it is compared to the Jimmy Chin one. Um, but this is 32 videos. Yeah, that's longer. Totaling something like five hours of, uh, of content. And it's, uh, there was a introductory price, which I just caught on. And then the, the lasting price is $400. So, uh, that's, that's the kind of what's in my future on all these flights I have coming up is I'm going to sit down and actually try and get through. some of this course load because it covers, I liked it because when I was reading about, you know, what do you get, it's six episodes about actually working in the field. So not probably not that different than what you were doing in Catalina. Yeah. A very specific sort of shooting flow. And then, um, six episodes about actually editing. Um, and then it includes everything from gear and packing and like, you know, kind of workflow. And it's all based on this guy. Uh, Benjamin Hardman is the, essentially the, the course leader it's about his style of photography and the way that he thinks about photography and working with clients and that sort of thing. So I'm pretty excited about it. I'm a huge fan of Alex's Instagram and also his YouTube channel. He does kind of a vlogging YouTube channel.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And I think it's really good stuff. And, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm excited to see this. And then not only do you get the lessons, but each, uh, each lesson comes with a supporting like document, like a PDF. Yeah. So you have some offline sort of checklist and that sort of thing. And then it also gives you access to a community forum where Both Alex and Benjamin are involved in providing feedback on work and photos and things like that.
Unknown I'll be curious to hear, um, your, your thoughts on that. You know, uh, I've had sort of mixed results with these sorts of interactive sort of classes. Um, I think what I took from the Jimmy Chin one, and, and, uh, I also went through a Michael Muller kind of similar thing. He's a really well-known photographer out of LA who does some dive stuff, but also some kind of celebrity portraits and, um, Maybe, I think it's probably my own, um, it was probably more me than, than the course, but I tend to kind of blow through them. Like I'm binge watching something, um, rather than sort of do one and do the exercises that they recommend and that sort of thing. But, you know, if you pay for it, you can go back and rewatch things. And, and I think for me, it was more, um, just, just watching how somebody else works. I think I'm very much an emulator. I tend to learn things by watching other people that are very good at something. And then. sort of copy it or, you know, whatever. And, uh, so that's kind of how it was. So, um, this one sounds good. It sounds much more in depth and a lot longer.
Unknown Yeah. You know, I, I, I'm kind of making a late in the year resolution to invest a little bit each month in. Uh, like specific skill development. So when I see, when I produce a finished product of something, I'm trying to weigh it against what I think it's kind of spiritual peers are and then identify weaknesses and try and fill in those blanks. Sure. So whether it's, um, a lot of this, I think will be like, I think I could get a lot better at editing or an, like a good enough image to take, to take it that last 10%. Yeah. Uh, so I, I like the way that a lot of Benjamin and, and Alex's work is edited. Sure. Uh, so I'm excited that, and then obviously, I mean, it's great NATO. There's a section about like, what gear he takes on a shoot, that's going to be great. So this is relatively new for me. I bought it while the pre-order was still active. It came up early May as far as the availability of the course. And I've been traveling and working almost constantly. So I haven't had the time to sit and be quiet and just kind of work my way through a few of these videos to actually provide specific feedback. But if you're interested in kind of taking your photography for a different level, I think that it requires kind of two things. part of that is a study of photography and the other part is actively shooting photos. And I feel like I shoot a lot of photos and I don't spend enough time studying it.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown Yeah. I think that's where I'm at with, uh, with that. So I thought this was kind of a good start. It's 400 bucks, which if you're not in a professional mode of, of taking pictures could seem quite expensive. Um, but I would actually consider that not, not that crazy.
Unknown Um, you know, it's like evening school or, you know, something like that, but you're learning from, from a couple of the best and
Unknown And I would also assume that depending on your day job, it doesn't count for Jason and I, but if you have a job at like a larger kind of company with really good benefits or decent benefits, this could probably qualify for as afterschool learning. So you could probably have it covered under your benefits. Certainly the last two jobs I had, I would have been able to write this off. Yeah, good point. Now, I guess I can still write it off, just not in the same context. Right, right. Yeah. So, yeah, that's about all that's new for me. I'm in New York for a little while now. I go down to Florida for a little bit. By the time this episode comes out, I will be coming back from Florida. So people will have already known the sort of event that's going on there. And then I'm in Toronto for a little while. I'm taking a few days offline, which I'm pretty excited about. And then I head to Europe for another project. So that's all before the close of May. And we have a pretty exciting kind of run of episodes coming up that we're excited about. still working on, uh, on some of the details for that kind of stuff. But, uh, yeah, I think, uh, I think that's about all I've got. It's, you know, it's, it's been a lot of like head down work mode and, and for you, you know, some, some travel and otherwise just kind of, uh, home and keeping at it.
Unknown Yeah. I mean, you know, and you've been, you've been really, uh, uh, on the, on the thin edge here with the editing. I mean, we're recording these past couple of episodes, like within, uh, you know, 48 hours of them going live. So it's, uh, yeah. You know, you've got it down to a system, but you're also, um, you're really cranking on these. I guess those plane rides are, are good for something, huh?
Unknown Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the, the one, we had one episode that went up a few hours late and that's because I was literally on. Like on a airplane wifi somewhere over Colorado or something, attempting to, I was coming back from Seattle and I was attempting to upload a 90 megabyte file on like United's $10 wifi. Uh, and it kept failing and like I had uploaded, this was an episode we had recorded. This is two episodes ago. We had recorded it very early.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown I'd put it on SoundCloud. I had left it. It turns out there was an error in the upload and I didn't go back and check it until I went to set it live from the runway at 6 AM in Seattle. And I was like, well, this is broken. It won't play. It won't publish. Wow. Um, and I had to upload it again. So like, aside from that, we're, we are staying on track, but it is a lot of like, Like I will record this, this afternoon on a Tuesday afternoon, I'll edit it on a flight to Florida Wednesday morning, and I will publish it and the post and everything else, uh, Thursday morning. So yeah, the flights do come in handy though. You can sit pretty quietly and just kind of pluck away at a laptop.
Unknown Yeah. And I think, I think we're getting a little better at, uh, at, at our recording methods as well. We're a little more efficient and, and, uh, clean if you, you know, if you put it that way, I guess.
Unknown Yeah, we'll find out. We're always talking about the elusive 40 minute episode. Uh, you know, this one's already looking like we might've blown that, that, uh, that window, but we'll, we'll see. We've, uh, so we do have a pretty fun main topic this week. Uh, you feel like you want to jump right in?
Unknown Yeah, let's go for it. It came off of another listener question. We're really happy to get those and they make, uh, some of them make for really great, uh, main topics. So.
Unknown So yeah, we do like getting these kind of more thoughtful questions. And sometimes this one was actually, Jason and I kind of bantered back and forth about what the actual question asker was asking. But a listener named Matt, Matt, thank you very much for writing in with your email. It was actually only yesterday or the day before. So Matt wrote in with kind of a long email, but I think he paraphrased down to kind of one or two sort of concepts. And what he's asking or writing in about it is a turning point where a watch goes from being vintage cool to a high value collectible. And it kind of ruins its appeal as an everyday object that you could wear and not really worry about. Uh, so he's wondering where that line might be for us, like where something becomes too precious to be a TGN sort of watch, uh, how we navigate watches that might cross that line while we own them. And then, you know, where we land on the idea of like, can a watch be too valuable to be used as a watch? Yeah. Yeah. And it's a good topic. Like it's an, it's kind of an interesting thought provoking question. He's asking like, is there, is there an inflection point where cool becomes not cool because it's so expensive or valuable.
Unknown Right. Right. And, and I think, um, it's kind of a question that goes beyond vintage watches as well. And I think most of us that are into watches probably face this very dilemma, um, with, with most of the watches we buy and most of the watches in our collections that we wear. Um, I think, you know, just off the top, the term cool, is something that I tend to not worry about. And, and Matt, you know, forgive me if I'm not getting your sort of impression or interpretation of that term wrong. Um, but I, I think to me, you know, sort of being concerned about when a vintage, a cool vintage watch, uh, you know, changes into something else is something that I don't really worry about. And I, I would say most people shouldn't really worry about because cool is something that is often based on what other people think. Um, and, uh, you know, sort of has this mass appeal, it's that kind of category. Um, you know, conversely, I, I sort of define my own sense of what I like and how much I'm willing or want to spend on a watch or any item actually like a, you know, my old Land Rover or a pair of boots or something. Um, and that, that's, I think the way that, that everybody should do it. So for example, my love of Doxa and Matt, I think you also have a, an old T graph. I think we're, we're two of a handful of people that have these old T graphs cause they were fairly rare. Um, But I love Doxa watches, both the vintage and the new ones. But that generally isn't shared by a lot of people. It's a pretty small crowd that thinks that Doxes, especially old Doxes, are cool watches. But, you know, it's an acquired taste and whatever you like, you should kind of just go for. And whether or not that object suddenly becomes popular or cool, I remember years ago that the Universal Geneve pole router was kind of a thing. I think, you know, Hodinkee had a big part in kind of uh, turning that watch into something special, um, in, in most people's eyes, but you know, it's, it's just a humble watch and a lot of people own them and had them and suddenly it's, it's cool. Just like a lot of the old Seiko divers are becoming popular and expensive now. That shouldn't really change things in your mind. At least it doesn't for me. Um, so that's kind of my take at least initially on the, the concept of vintage cool.
Unknown Um, I guess, I guess for me, I would see it as something where like, I've never been in a position I don't want to speak out of turn basically because I've never been in a position where I bought something and then it became so expensive that I was uncomfortable with it. Yeah. Um, my most expensive watch is arguably the one I not only wear the most, but routinely treat the worst. Uh, and, and I also, it's worth, because there are people in the audience that spend far more on watches than I do. So it's worth stating like my probably most expensive and most valuable watch is my Rolex Explorer.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And I've been in a several month long period of purchasing what will be a vastly more expensive concept. So I'm trying to imagine where I would land on that. Like if I bought this Grail watch that I have my eyes on, would I treat it the same way I treat my Explorer or my Aerospace or my Seaforth? Probably not, if I'm honest. I would be buying it because it's kind of special and I might treat it as a special thing. Whereas I bought my Explorer 2 for my 30th birthday. And then I think like within a couple weeks, maybe even less than that, I wore it on the outside of my sleeve to climb Baker.
Unknown Yeah. I think that's why you bought the watch though. I think that was part of the appeal is that you could do that and you wanted to do that with that watch, right?
Unknown Yep. And I also think that's some of the appeal of a steel Rolex, like some of the lasting appeal of a steel Rolex is like, that's literally how they're made.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And there's lots of sports watches and lots of company that make great sports watches. But there's something kind of special about that one. And that's a watch that like I routinely travel with all over the world. I bang it around in planes. I, you know, I just kind of treat it the way I want to treat it. I like the way it looks with some scratches. But that being said, I can imagine, you know, if you bought a 1680 10 years ago because you wanted a Submariner.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And now it's worth four times as much. Yeah. Even with 10 years of wear, three times as much or whatever. Like I could see it if you, if somebody was like, Oh, you realize that watch is worth X. Yeah. And you go like, Oh, I can't, I can't wear this around.
Unknown Yeah. My, my, my wife's boss's boss, I guess. So the CEO of her company has a few years ago, I bumped into him at some event, some dinner or something. And I glanced at his wrist and he was wearing a 1655 Explorer II from 1972 that his sister gifted him brand new back then. Um, While she was working in the Middle East or something, she bought it for him at a jeweler and gave it to him and he's worn it ever since. And I told him, you know, I was gawking at it and I told him how impressive it was and what they're worth nowadays. And he was, he was flabbergasted that he's not a watch guy. He's just worn this watch like so many people are. Um, and the next time I saw him, he was wearing like a Scoggin or a swatch. And I said, where's the Rolex? And he said, after you told me what it was worth, I immediately put it in the safe. Right. You know, and to me, it's just such a shame. To do that, I understand that logic. I still haven't gotten to that myself and certainly I don't have a 1655 Explorer II, but I've got a few other kind of interesting valuable vintage watches that I bought at a better price than they are nowadays. For instance, the 76 Tudor Sub with the snowflake hands is a watch that I bought several years ago, and it needed some service, so I had it done at a Rolex retailer here in town. Their watchmaker did a really great job with it. And I told him specifically, I said, I really want to dive with this watch. If you're going to overhaul it, let's get it up to spec. And he did, and I've taken it diving on several occasions, and I did the same recently with the old Teagraph we talked about in, I think, the last episode. And, you know, these watches are worth something, but I think I'm of the philosophy You know, I really like to use well-made things and well-made things often cost a little bit more. I don't buy them for the value or the collectability or the investment of them. I buy them because they're quote unquote cool in my eyes, and they're cool because they can be used for these things. And I think to not use them, it just seems such a shame to me.
Unknown Yeah. And I mean, it could be that you and I maybe didn't come from a considerable, you know, we didn't, we weren't born into like crazy rich families or anything like very privileged. I would say a privileged life on a, on a global scale, but you know, a fairly standard middle-class upbringing on both our sides. And, and the, uh, for me, I still, from, I still come from a standpoint where like, if I buy something, something that's really nice, I want to use it all the time. Like if I have whatever my best boots are, my red wings, I want to wear those all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to baby them. I don't want to like, Oh, every other day, because I'm worried that they'll get scratched or like, I'll treat them. I'll condition them. I'll take care of them. I'll make sure that they're clean and they don't, you know, salt doesn't sit on them and that kind of thing. But beyond that, I want to, and like, if I'm ever fortunate enough to have a car, like I've had a couple of cars that I really loved. Yeah. They weren't, they weren't worth anything special, but I loved them. I could have, I could have been someone who was overly precious about something that wasn't valuable or especially valuable. I drove them, I drove them hard. And when I'm fortunate enough to have the driveway space to have a sports car or an old Land Rover or something like that, then I'll do the same thing. That thing will be driven hard and kept clean and tidy, but otherwise used. And the best cameras I own are ones that bang around in backpacks, and that goes with watches as well. I don't really own anything in my life that I baby. My laptop looks like it's been through the rinse cycle on a washing machine full of rocks. And, uh, and these, you know, these are, these are like, it's, they're expensive things, but I can't, like, I don't, I guess, I guess I, I guess what I'm saying is I may have walked myself into a different position than I thought I maybe had. I maybe can't handle having something that's worth enough money that I would have to baby it.
Unknown Yeah. And maybe we're, maybe we're, we're coming across as a bit naive or jaded, or maybe we've lost touch. I mean, as you were saying all this, I was thinking to myself, you know, um, Yes, we don't come from, you know, neither of us are from, you know, wealthy upbringings. We didn't grow up with a silver spoon, quote unquote, but, um, you know, we both appreciate good things, but have we gotten to the point where we. Have these nice things and a $2,000 watch or a $5,000 watch is considered affordable, something we're willing to bang up. Whereas the guy who saves and saves and saves and, you know, that's his one nice thing. might think about it differently and decide he wants to take his G-Shock when he goes paddling, because if he loses that, uh, you know, Rolex sub that he bought to the deep, um, you know, that that's a considerable loss for him. I want to be, I just want to be cognizant that of how, how we might come across and, and just sort of be self-critical and think, you know, I'm wondering if we're, we're sounding a little bit out of touch here.
Unknown I would agree. There's definitely some privilege to, to note in that you and I get handed very expensive watches constantly. Yeah. We also exist in kind of even help to manufacture a space where a $5,000 watch could be called affordable or a $10,000 watch when you compare it against its competition could be deemed affordable. I think that there's two different ways to look at that. One, there's absolutely some privilege and I'll accept that entirely. Think about the world in which I'd like the cars I drive. I don't even own a car, but like all routinely, especially last year, Most of the cars I drove were probably worth more than $150,000, $200,000. That's the height of privilege. That leads you to essentially like you and I would probably be roughly experts on watches, say from $250 to maybe $7,000 or $8,000 or $10,000. But if you still live and work in the watch industry, a $5,000 watch is considered entry-level luxury. Yeah. like the Rolex Explorer, which, you know, I just covered in a recent piece for Hodinkee. So I think that's super fair. And, you know, I definitely came from, I'll never forget the sweetness that it is to get your first Seiko dive watch. And it's a watch that I still wear and that I'll still beat on and I wore every day for several years. So I don't think that, I guess it becomes like the idea of it being valuable is the personal side. And if the watch just became too valuable, which could be when it's worth a thousand dollars or when it's worth $10,000 or a hundred thousand dollars, that's going to change depending on the guy.
Unknown Right. Yeah. Everybody has their threshold. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I also think people have different thresholds of, of risk, um, and different philosophies of life when it comes to saving or spending or taking risks or playing it safe.
Unknown And, um, you know, you and I aren't really collectors. Correct. Yeah. There's something about collectors where they like to curate and care like a custodian. So I wouldn't want to say that it's wrong that someone buys a watch they love or a camera they love or something, and then it spends most of its time on a shelf where they can still appreciate it the way that they want to.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown I think that you and I appreciate these products by using them. And I think I would have trouble spending a lot more money than I already do on watches. and still feel okay appreciating or like using it the same way, appreciating it in the method that I've become accustomed.
Unknown Yeah. And when I look around at the way that, uh, you know, I like to spend, it tends to be, you know, we live in a pretty modest house that we've been in for 14 or 15 years. I don't spend a lot on clothing or shoes and things like that. It tends to be, you know, the odd watch here and there, some good camera gear, some, some good travel gear and my Land Rover. And I think, um, so, I don't have a $60,000 SUV. I don't have a sailboat. I don't have some of these other things. So, and the reason I do own the things I do and that they did cost what they do is because I value them and I value them because they can be used. And to me, um, you know, going diving with a 1976 Tudor Submariner or, um, whatever, you know, I'm willing to take the risk for the satisfaction that I get of using that object the way it's, intended. And to me, taking it paddling or open water swimming or diving, worst case, absolute worst case, strap breaks, it's lost, it's gone. Certainly it's still a bad thing if it floods or gets bashed and a hand falls off or it breaks. But, you know, in most cases, in many cases, those watches can be fixed. Not back to original condition, of course, but that's something I'm willing to accept. And, you know, if not, if it's gone, if it's, if it's lost or irreparably harmed, you know, at least it died doing something it was made for. And that's, that's something that almost heightens the bit of a thrill of taking that watch. You know, I think diving with that Doxa a couple of weeks ago and looking at it underwater and thinking, wow, it's, it's watertight and it should be. And, you know, it's almost like you finished the dive and you're, it's, it heightens the satisfaction that this, this rare you know, strange old object, um, is still able to do what it was designed for.
Unknown Yeah. And I mean, you, you, to, to change the context a little bit, like you, you have an old, nice old Land Rover and there, and you have a more modern SUV that's like comfortable and quiet and, and the, you know, noise and vibration and all that kind of stuff is at a normal level, but there's still going to be times where you'd get in the, even on a longer trip because the road trip would be for that SUV, not unlike taking the docks on, on a dive. Right. And, and I think like, you know, to turn the context again, like with cameras, I took that, a camera that I used every day for work, I took to a kid's birthday party and I destroyed it at a bowling alley. Like these things kind of happen and like, was I upset? Absolutely. I was livid with myself for a little while for not being a little bit more careful with the camera itself. Like it was sitting on a table, the strap got pulled, it fell off the table, that's how it goes. But you know what it is, like it's gear. It can't take a picture on the shelf, it can't take a picture if it's not in my hand, And I think in many ways, especially when it comes to a watch, I have to kind of assume where I would land. And I think that there's definitely a point for me where a watch would feel too valuable to keep up with kind of where it might become a watch I wear when I'm in a more sedate setting.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And we know people together. We share colleagues that have watches that they've actually decided they wouldn't leave the house with. Right. Yeah. if they were to slip on a curb and bash that watch, it can't be fixed. It can't be replaced, the dial cannot be made again, you can't get another hand, or even if you could get it fixed, the blotch on its history would be of such an incredible value. And that's the point where now I'm absolutely saying I don't want to live in that space. I love to see a beautiful vintage enamel dial Patek. I like to experience one once or twice a year. The idea of owning one for anything other than it being like me essentially being a custodian for the next person who might own it. It doesn't feel like a watch to me anymore. It's too valuable. It's too special. It's too fragile. I want a watch to be kind of, you know what I like is right in that zone of like a Zen.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown Yeah. Every watch needs to have a little bit of like the zen. Okay. It's nice. It's very nicely made. It's considered, it's thoughtful. It fits, it's comfortable. It's very legible. It can, like you can, you can beat on it if you have to. It can be rinsed off in a sink. Like it just needs to be like an everyday sort of thing. And there's lots of old watches, like you've mentioned, that can be an everyday thing, but there's definitely a lot that can't be.
Unknown Right. Right. Yeah. It comes down to the choice of the watch you have.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown Certainly like a A-series Royal Oak or something. Yes, it's a steel sports watch that could take some abuse, theoretically.
Unknown Or yellow gold.
Unknown Yeah. Or yellow gold, yeah.
Unknown I would really like a gold one.
Unknown I guess, you know, my only concession to value versus risk is with kind of traveler dangerous scenarios. So it's, you know, diving, hiking, paddling, running, etc. with with any of my watches is not off the table. In fact, I love to do that sort of stuff. But, um, you know, let's say you're, you're going to a city you're not familiar with, a sketchy neighborhood traveling, you know, maybe you're going to take a month off and, you know, hitchhike across South America or something. Maybe that's not the time to take your 1976 Tudor Submariner or your 1680 Submariner. Um, so in those cases, I think I, I, I make a different, decisions, but I don't find myself in those scenarios that often.
Unknown So, and those are all like, like, those are all scenarios where all I can think of where I'm thinking like, what watch would I take on those ones that you're listing? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's an Oris. It's a Zen. Yeah. It's a, it's a, uh, uh, like a, a really good, like digital multifunction, like a garment of some sort. Right. Where like, they're cool and they're watches and they do things that I want them to do and they're comfortable and they, they suit the, the overall aesthetic and kind of day to day needs. Yeah. But but if something happens to them, they can be repaired, they can be, you know, replaced, if they fall off a table, or, you know, if they get stolen from a hotel room, yeah, you might need to make an insurance claim or something like that. But it's not to the extent where you're like, I'm literally out in heirloom. Yeah, yeah. Or I'm out an amount of money that I was supposed to eventually liquidate so my kids could go to college. Like, you know, there's, there's some of those kind of funny realities where like you start to think like, okay, so where is the line for me? And the line's probably roughly around what I own now. I, you know, I would be devastated if my Explorer 2 was broken or stolen or lost or sorry, let's call it stolen or lost if I couldn't recover it. But that would be a lot of that would be sentimental. So it's different when you just try and think of it purely from a monetary value, because I don't know that I would spend a lot more on watches. outside of a few narrow scenarios, to buy something that I would treat the same as that Explorer or one of my other watches. I'd be buying it in a different context.
Unknown And if your Explorer was broken or lost at some point now, you probably could look back and say, for the past three years, I've gotten a heck of a lot of worth out of this watch. I've gotten my money's worth. It's been satisfying. Yes, you would miss it. You'd feel bad. For sure. You know, life goes on, you'd find something else that would take that place and do similar things with it.
Unknown Yeah, I would agree. So, I mean, you know, I've never had a watch where I bought it and it crossed the line into a world where I was suddenly uncomfortable wearing it. Maybe I've been in areas of the world where I wouldn't want to wear the Rolex or something like that, but not really for the most part. And, you know, have you ever had Do you have an idea of where that line is for you or is it just it's kind of contextual? It's based on more than just say a dollar value.
Unknown Um, I don't currently have any watches that, um, that I would hesitate to wear other than those scenarios, like, like the hitchhiking across South America sort of thing. I'm not picking on South America. Certainly it could be Eastern Europe. It could be, it could be, you know, somewhere in the U S but
Unknown Absolutely. Yeah. I've been to plenty of places in the States where I wouldn't hitchhike regardless of what I had on me.
Unknown Canada too. Yeah. Other than that, no, I don't have a current watch that I would not do anything else with. So throwing out that whole hitchhiking across X, there isn't a watch that I own right now that I wouldn't, provided that it's been up to spec and serviced. I mean, my old, I've got a couple of old Rolex subs that might be able to take some water, but I've never had them fully serviced or the gaskets changed. But if that were the case, if I had them looked at and they were fine, I wouldn't hesitate to do it.
Unknown So, yeah. And I mean, um, Matt, Matt had provided some, some examples of watches and, and I think that's going to change from one person to another. So I, you know, I, I think, uh, I think that where we land on it is like, if you want to buy the watch to use it, make sure you're comfortable actually using it. Um, otherwise it might detract from the fun that you're supposed to be having while kayaking the, yeah. Grand Canyon or something like that, whatever awesome things you might get up to that might require a fun sport watch. And then otherwise, if you're buying watches that you feel are going to be more for the custodial, maybe even investment purchases, then those I don't think are treated the same way that we're talking about. You know, I think those become more like artwork, more like collections. Whereas nothing in my collection, quote unquote, has any extreme value to me that isn't sentimental.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown Yeah. So.
Unknown Yeah. I always say, I mean, maybe I've said it before on the show, but, um, provided my wife and the cats and myself get out of the house, uh, if it were burning down, um, and I had one watch on my wrist, I don't care which one of my watches I just like to have a watch on. Um, everything, everything else could go. I, the house can go up in flames and, and, uh, you know, I'd be sad to see photos go up and, and, you know, my favorite pair of boots and a jacket or whatever, but you know, life goes on. I, I could, I could easily walk away from it all. Um, So, yeah, I guess, you know, that would be a whole other episode topic is, you know, attachment and start getting into kind of philosophical discussions. But, yeah, that's kind of where I come down.
Unknown Yeah, I guess in some way it almost comes down to the idea that, you know, like we tell people when they ask us what watch to buy, which I've been getting so many of lately. Yeah, me too. I can't help you pick from one watch to another. It's like, we did a whole episode about it. But the response is always buy what you like. And if owning the watch makes you like it less, or like something else in your life less, like if you can't enjoy the hike or fishing on your boat or whatever, because you have this great watch on, maybe recontextualize how that watch exists in your life. And if you really can't enjoy it because it's now valuable, that's not a bad problem to be in, sell it. Sell it, buy a little something that you do like and put the money towards an awesome vacation or a new rod and reel or whatever it is. Whatever else is like, you know, I guess at some point are we just becoming like a Marie Kondo? Does this watch spark joy? And you know, if not, rethink it. I would say that for almost everything in your life.
Unknown Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think it's actually a good place to kind of wrap this up. And I would, I would tend to agree that a watch, at least in my way of thinking, is something that, uh, should heighten the experiences you have with it in life. And if it starts to detract, as you said, um, maybe it's time to rethink that.
Unknown Yeah. All right, Matt. I hope that helped. If not, obviously the greynado at gmail.com. And if anyone listening has any questions for us, anything that they think could be an interesting show topic, um, I don't, if it, if it's something that requires this much explanation, Uh, it usually will come in as a show. Um, but you know, we get lots of, uh, topic suggestions. We get a lot of kind of bigger philosophical questions and, and I just kind of like reply to them and tag them in Gmail. And then when we need a topic, like we did today, uh, we pull this out. So Matt, thank you very much for writing in with a thought provoking question. I hope that we managed to land somewhere near, uh, the concepts that you were looking for. And, uh, and yeah, we're, we're always here. Thegraynadoatgmail.com.
Unknown Great. Well, Well, should we jump into final notes? We're actually not far over 40 minutes.
Unknown No, we're, I mean, this isn't going to be a 40 minute episode, but let's face it, it probably never was going to be. Yeah, right. Um, so yeah, let's hit final notes. You, uh, feel like going first?
Unknown Yeah, sure. Um, so mine is, uh, it's actually a podcast, um, by a guy named Alex Street. He's a, um, I think he's Canadian. Is that, is that right?
Unknown You are a jerk. You have something else entirely in our Google document. He is Canadian, yeah. He's a friend, kind of in the same circle as my greater family and a friend of my cousin. Oh, cool.
Unknown So Alex has a podcast called Made For This. And as the title suggests, he kind of talks to different people on his podcast, you know, kind of about their background and, you know, how they reached a certain point in their career or how they made their life what it is. And in two recent episodes, my esteemed colleague, James Stacy, was was the featured guest, and it was a two-part episode that I thoroughly enjoyed. And I believe... That's very sweet of you. I believe the title was... James is Made to See How Things Tick. So in his intro, he says, James is a photographer and writer with Hodinkee.com. He's enthusiastic about exploring everything and bringing you into the world of well-made watches and the world's most extraordinary cars. And so a couple of weeks ago, these two podcasts went live, I encourage you to check them out. I thought it was a really, really cool, uh, discussion you guys had, you know, you were, you were sort of, he was asking you about your background and kind of, uh, what you get out of what you do and, and when you knew, uh, you know, that this is what you wanted to do and kind of where you're headed. And, and it was just a, it was a good discussion. It felt, you know, certainly listening to it, I felt like I was just kind of talking to you, but, uh, but he, uh, he asked some good questions and I think it was really insightful for people who maybe don't know you as well to kind of see what, what makes you, what makes you tick.
Unknown So well, I mean, that's that's sweet. That's for you. I didn't want to I didn't want to put it in the show just because, you know, it's kind of tooting my own horn. It is a fairly like navel gazing sort of concept to talk about. But the yeah, I like Alex and I like the product he's putting together is kind of capturing enthusiasm and fascination to try and help people in a motivational aspect. Yeah. Which which I can support at a very high level. I think I think that he puts out a pretty solid product. And he's just kind of a sweet guy. I think his heart's in it for the right reason. And, uh, it was, it was kind of him to think of me as, as, uh, you know, someone who might be able to, um, help inspire people to chase down the things they really want to do with their lives. Not just what's kind of in front of them or, or where they find themselves today. So I was happy to be part of it. Uh, even if, uh, I may not be the most worthwhile guest.
Unknown Well, I thought it was great. So anyway, I'm glad that that was my offering for this week.
Unknown You got me. You had like some crystal polishing gel or something.
Unknown Novus Plastic Polish, which I may talk about in the future.
Unknown Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. All bait and switch. Yes. OK, so mine this week is another book which I've really, really enjoyed. And then it turns out my eldest daughter, who's five, she also really liked it, which I did not expect. And it's a book called From A to Eames.
Unknown Oh, nice.
Unknown And it's a visual guide of mid-century design that's formulated like a And it's sort of like a small encyclopedia. So it takes you all the way across, but everything, all of the imagery is drawn, not unlike it would have been in maybe a mid-century modern, a period correct mid-century modern catalog. Oh, neat. So it's all really nice, you know, drawings and it covers everything from some architecture to chairs, clocks, lamps, all the good stuff. Anything that mid-century kind of locked in on.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And it's not that expensive. I'm seeing it here, uh, for about 14 bucks on Amazon and, and for that much money, uh, like the, the, it's very bright and colorful and the drawings are great. And my daughter kind of looked at it and then looked at lamps around my house and, and, and did that kind of thing. So I liked that. It's, it's a little bit thoughtful and, uh, and it's kind of beautiful and it's a nice way to like, it's not the internet. It's not, it's not, you know, it's not trying to sell something. It's not trying to be anything more than just kind of a visual guide to uh, uh, you know, a design language that I find really kind of calming and peaceful and aesthetically pleasing.
Unknown Yeah. Oh, that's great. I know. I know someone particularly that would like it a lot. My, my chum here, Matt, uh, my designer friend who's lives in a mid-century house and he has all this great furniture, so I'll have to recommend it. Yeah.
Unknown Cool. Well, super that's, that's my pick. Uh, we got a good book and, uh, and we have a Jason's bait and switch on a podcast featuring, featuring yours truly. So I hope that's enough to get you a couple of weeks until we chat to you again.
Unknown Well, as always, thanks so much for listening, and a big thanks to Hodinkee for supporting the show. Hit the show notes via hodinkee.com or the feed for more details. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at J.E. Stacey, and follow the show at TheGreyNado. If you have any questions for us, please write to TheGreyNado at gmail.com. And please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music throughout the show is Siesta by Jazzar via the Free Music Archive.
Unknown And we leave you with this quote from famed British mountaineer George Mallory who said, So, if you cannot understand that there is something in a man which responds to the challenge of this mountain and goes out to meet it, that the struggle is the struggle of life itself upward and forever onward, then you won't see why we go. What we get from this adventure is just sheer joy, and joy is, after all, the end of life. We do not live to eat and make money. We eat and make money to be able to enjoy life. That is what life means and what life is for.