The Grey NATO - Ep 79 - Straps!

Published on Thu, 25 Apr 2019 06:00:14 -0400

Synopsis

The podcast covers a wide range of topics related to travel, diving, gear, and watches. Jason shares his recent trip to Bonaire, where he went diving and tried out new camera equipment, including a Nikon Z7 with a Nauticam underwater housing. He also discusses some of the watches he wore, like the Boliva Oceanographer and a vintage Teagraph. They then dive into a discussion about different types of watch straps, covering materials like rubber, NATO, leather, and metal bracelets. They share their favorite brands and models for each category.

Transcript

Speaker
Unknown Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado, a Hodinkee podcast. It's a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 79, and we thank you for listening. Jason, how you doing, man?
Jason Heaton Good. Good. Yeah. Just, just back from a long vacation and, uh, It was kind of this is kind of our Basel hangover episode after our big two hour one last time. So we'll hopefully keep it a little lighter this time.
Unknown Yeah, that was a long episode. It took a long time to edit this and due to the complexities of your travel scenario and my travel scenario and just the general like workload I'm experiencing quick at the moment, you know, we've got less than 48 hours to turn this episode around. So it's going to be not two hours and 10 minutes. we're you know, appreciate that at no small level. Um, this episode I think will be, yeah, a little bit of a trip recap for you, uh, because you're back from your sort of annual, even sometimes more than annual, uh, pilgrimage to Bonaire. I'm excited to hear about some new camera gear, some new watches and that sort of thing. And, uh, and then we, we've got, uh, kind of a more in-depth topic about, uh, something that we get asked about constantly, but I feel we haven't addressed in like probably 40 or 50 episodes. Right. Yeah. True. Yeah. It's been a while. Yeah. So dig into Bonaire. Tell me, tell me how it went. I'm excited.
Jason Heaton Yeah. So, you know, Bonaire, I mean, as you mentioned, I mean, we, we go, my, my wife, Gashani and I, we, we go at least once a year and we kind of tallied it up and we've been going for the better part of a decade back to like 2009 or 10 now. And it sort of has become our sort of cabin getaway, albeit more expensive and a very different type of experience, but it kind of, we used to do a lot more kind of up North, cabin rental stuff years ago. And since we really got into diving in a big way, Bonaire has kind of taken that place and it's just, it's a really relaxing place. We rent the same apartment every time. It's not terribly expensive. It's right on the water and it's a great place to do watch reviews. Of course, underwater photography, the diving is pretty gentle. They're fairly shallow right off the shore. So predictably it was, it was another great trip. In fact, we, we both, uh, talked about it as we were flying home on Sunday and said that, uh, it might've been our best trip to Bonaire yet because we kind of took it a little more, uh, a little more relaxed pace than usual. We usually either hauling a bunch of loaned watches along to kind of review and do a lot of photography. And this trip we just sort of took it as it came and, and chilled out a bit more. But you know, in the end we, we did end up, uh, taking quite a few photos and, uh, mainly Ghoshani. I mean, she does most of the photography and at least all the good stuff. And, uh, We got to try out our new Nikon Z7, which we got last fall and we actually used for that Richard Mille trip we did out to Colorado. That was on Houdinki a while back, but this was our first time shooting it underwater. And we, to do that, we picked up a Nauticam underwater housing, which is no small expense, but it is kind of what we do. So it's definitely worth it. And Nauticam just makes such a superior product. And so for the majority of the trip, we were shooting with a Nikon 17 to 35 millimeter wide angle lens, F 2.8, for which we needed a pretty wide, pretty giant acrylic dome actually, which had some interesting buoyancy characteristics. The camera we thought would be a lot heavier because it was a bigger housing, bigger camera, bigger lens. But because of that big dome, there's just a lot more airspace inside. So we had to actually zip tie a two pound weight to the bottom of the housing to keep it more neutral Um, but that big dome allowed for some really fun split shots, kind of those over under shots on the surface. And, uh, uh, you know, if anyone kind of checked out my Instagram or Gashani's, um, you know, you could see kind of the results of that, which we never really could get with the Sony a7 and in the smaller dome that we used to have. Um, so that was fun to try. Um, but other than that, it was just a great trip. I think we did, uh, I don't know, 16, 17 dives over the course of the week we were doing. two or three a day, kind of whenever the mood hit, we'd, we'd pick up a tank and, uh, and drive down the beach and find a good spot to go in the water. Um, so it was great. I, I had a few watches along and a few of them will be subjects of some upcoming stories, but, but one that I just took that I had just wanted to take along for fun was the Boliva Oceanographer Limited Edition that, um, uh, I got last year and I hadn't worn it much. It's the one with the orange dial. It's the, the smaller case that Boliva made like a 40 millimeter case with a Swiss movement in it. Um, and what a fun watch. It was, uh, really kind of, I think I even made a note of this on my Instagram in a post that kind of one of the perfect sort of summer vacation or tropical vacation watches around these days. I think it's up there with, you know, stuff from, from Zodiac or from Seiko or, or Doxa. It has that same kind of small domed charm to it. Um, that kind of makes you feel a bit nostalgic for an era that, you know, we probably didn't even live through, but, uh, Kind of that whole beach, you know, strap on a tank and jump in the water sort of vibe.
Unknown Yeah. I mean, that's, that's great. And, uh, definitely, uh, an interesting watch and one that I saw quite a few times in your Instagram. Yeah. The, the question that I had comes back to that housing, the Nauticam housing you had for the, the Z7. Yeah. I know that those Nauticam housings have those systems that tell you if they're leaking. Yes. Yes. So if it does that, if it does that, do you have an option to get the camera to the surface faster than you could go to the surface? Like, could you just cut that two pound weight off and let it go to the top and hope that it doesn't continue to experience enough pressure to have a leak at the surface?
Jason Heaton That's a good question. You know, it'd be interesting if one of these camera companies or housing companies put some sort of a lift bag or some sort of a CO2 cartridge that would inflate like a lift bag on top that would take it to the surface. I suppose if we cut the weight, I'm not sure, you know, as you know, buoyancy characteristics change the deeper you go. And if you're down at say 80 feet, things become far less buoyant. That's why free divers can kind of just coast after a certain point. They don't have to kick as much that the gravity or, or the lack of buoyancy just sort of sucks them down. And so while the camera was fairly buoyant at the surface and needed that two pound weight to get under, I'm not sure if we cut the weight at say 60 feet, if it would bob up to the top, that would be something interesting to to try, I guess. Um, but certainly, yeah, you don't want to make a dash for the, for the surface just to save a camera if you're going to risk getting the bends.
Unknown I was just trying to do the mental, I don't know, it's not math, but like the mental consideration in my mind is like, could you damage the camera equipment with like a very drastic pressure change?
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown It would probably have to be an insane pressure change. I'm not sure that a few atmospheres would be enough.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. I don't think so unless you were, I suppose, very deep, but, uh, it's basically expanding air that's already in there. So it shouldn't, It shouldn't be new air that's been introduced. So I think it would be okay. I mean, to get, to get really techie and kind of nerdy about it. I'm not, I'm not sure what, what is cool about that system is that there's, there's a valve on the, on the housing that before you. Dive, you know, but when you load the camera, you seal it up and then you, you take this thing, it looks like those, I can't remember what they're called, but you know, you pump the air out of a bottle of wine. Um, and it looks just like that. You actually put it over the valve and you actually pump, um, vacuum or pull a vacuum inside the housing. And what that does is it detects whether or not there's any sort of a seepage, um, or change in pressure inside the housing and will alert you before you even get in the water, um, that you don't have a good seal and that you need to take care of that. And then, so that's one sort of fail safe system. And then the other is there are two little electrodes inside the bottom of the housing that if they, if moisture sort of causes a contact between those two or creates a current, um, it'll start beeping and flashing and then tells you that it's time to kind of get that housing out of the water before it completely floods and ruins your camera. So, um, it does give a measure of, of, uh, security and sort of peace of mind to be diving with something that tells you that, um, you know, that, that the, the housing is watertight. Um, that's just one reason why I really liked Nauticam. I know some other housing companies do something similar, but, uh, you know, we've been with Nauticam through a Sony RX100 and then the Sony A7. And now with now with the Nikon and just the ergonomics and kind of the build quality make you it gives you a little less buyer's remorse for the thousands of dollars that you're spending for these things.
Unknown I mean, absolutely. I mean, that's the name of the game. When you get into, you know, there's been many episodes of this thing where we kind of say that, you know, photography is not about the gear. Yeah. But if you want to take your if you want to take your very expensive mirrorless full frame body underwater, it's a little bit about the gear at that point. Yeah, I agree. And I was thrilled to see your photos coming up on your Instagram that I got this impression, because the photos do look different than the ones that you'd taken on previous trips to Bonaire. Yeah. And I got this impression that that camera, that combo, maybe the housing as well, but whatever, that whole setup seems to have removed some barriers from Ghashani. I feel like there's more of her skill coming through the manipulation of the camera itself. She's, you know, the images are a little bit more impactful and maybe she had hit kind of a limit with the Sony where it was holding her back. I don't know. We'd have to maybe have her on the show sometime to talk about the difference between the two.
Jason Heaton Yeah, she did remark on having those extra megapixels. So the A7 Mark II that we had was a 24 megapixel camera. This is a 45 megapixel camera. you know, megapixels become almost an abstract topic when you start getting up in those kind of numbers, but, uh, um, it does allow you to crop more, um, just makes a photo a little richer. Um, and, and the other thing too, is I think the Nikon, and this is fairly important underwater, um, or especially with those over undershots where you're shooting very quickly, um, or shooting fish or whatever, um, is the speed of the autofocus. Um, and the Nikon seems to do a really good job of, of, Really finding exactly where you want to focus very quickly And a really fast shutter kind of response as well, which is something that has changed over the years I remember with even with the rx100 and before that we had like an Olympus You know when you're underwater and things are moving whether it's a diver kicking or a fish swimming by um, you know, you want the shutter to to snap as soon as you pull the trigger and The Nikon is just you know Exponentially better than stuff we've used before. So not to mention we can use our existing lenses that we've had with Nikon over the years with it.
Unknown That's a huge plus for sure.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Um, and then the big dome for, for the over under shots, which we just had fun shooting. Um, you know, but, but, you know, when you look at my Instagram feed or any of these photos on my, or Dishani's feed, um, those split shots, you know, you see one good photo and you, what you don't see is we've taken dozens. just to get that one shot. And maybe that takes the magic out of seeing that photo, but it's the reality. I mean, we'll be sitting there and she'll be bobbing at the surface in a light chop. And, um, you know, I'll be just below the surface doing something and she'll, you know, I'll come up every once in a while and she'll say, okay, do this, let's face the sun, let's face down the, down the beach, you know, whatever, do this, do that. And, um, it's really trial and error in many cases because you're, you're trying to get half of that dome, in the water and half out. And then you have to expose for, um, where you, you know, you have to kind of choose where you're going to expose. So this, the sky is very bright and underwater is quite dark. Um, so a flat water surface is ideal. Um, kind of a, a pretty narrow, uh, uh, depth of field is, is preferred or sorry. And, uh, a pretty wide depth of field is preferred because you want to get as much in focus as you can, both top side and below. Et cetera, et cetera. And it just becomes a real, a real struggle, but they're worth it when you get a cool shot.
Unknown Yeah. I mean, I, I absolutely agree. I thought that, like I said, I thought the shots looked incredible. I'm glad that the gear is working out. And certainly that's a lot of, that's a lot of potential in that setup. But it is funny to, you know, when I, like, I would say that for the average, like big watch review that I do, which might have call it 15 images in it.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown I would say that's, uh, I would shoot 300 frames, maybe more like 400, depending on the, on the lighting and the setup. And like, even for like a, like one of those things where you do like a hands-on at Basel world, which isn't typically seven to nine images. Right. I probably shot 80. Yeah.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown So it's, it's 10%. Yeah. Uh, is, is good. And then I imagine if you put me underwater, I'd be getting 10th of a percent.
Unknown Yeah. Maybe. Yeah.
Unknown Yeah. Maybe if, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe I'd hit 1%. I get, you know, if I shot a hundred frames, I get one image that I was like, yeah, that's what I was going for. Maybe.
Jason Heaton Right. Yeah. And then the, the, the, the other complicating factor is it's very difficult to communicate underwater. So if I need to turn or she didn't get the shot or even there's a problem, um, you know, it's, it's just very difficult to kind of say, okay, turn to the left and hold your arm like this or do that. And, um, But, you know, we've been doing it for 10 years and I think we've kind of had a good sort of almost telepathy, I suppose, underwater, like where to go and what to do and that sort of thing. So, um, yeah, it, it was good. And I think, you know, one thing that made this trip almost more relaxing and more enjoyable than almost all the trips we've done in the past is we weren't there to shoot a ton for specific assignments. I will have a few coming up, but, um, we kind of just took it as it came and didn't really focus on getting a lot of photos and kind of just getting used to the new the new housing and the new camera. And we ended up getting a lot of really good stuff almost in spite of that different mindset. And maybe that's kind of a lesson, you know, is to kind of not, not try so hard, try softer, I guess is the term, you know?
Unknown Yeah. Just kind of stay in the mix. I think a lot, a lot of times it's just a question of like, um, have you, have you done your 10,000 frames or your 25 outings or something like that before you're really called upon to turn something out? Yeah. I think that's great. And, uh, and certainly you, you spoke about the boulevard. I also saw that you took the T graph diving, which people freaked out about on Instagram. People, people love that. That's awesome.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I'm not going to give away too much. Cause I have kind of a fun story coming up that I've been working on probably for a year that since I, since I got that T graph, it's a really fun, fun backstory. But, um, yeah, I had, you know, that watch I got serviced and sealed up and it was time. It was time to kind of take it out of retirement, uh, I didn't dive with it all week. I just did for a day. Um, but it held up. What a thrill to take a 50 year old, you know, big, uh, big, bold dive watch diving. I mean, you just, you feel like it just feels right, you know? Absolutely. And to look at that thing underwater, um, I've had a few experiences, you know, I dove with my Tudor Snowflake, uh, and then back in, uh, last year, I guess it was, I dove with that Tornek Rayville from the sixties, um, which was a little bit daunting as well. But, you know, once you're underwater and you glance at the watch, it's like, yep, this this is what this thing was designed for. So if it's up to spec, why not?
Unknown You know, I absolutely agree. I think it's awesome. You know, we don't have to go into it. If there's a story coming up, we can talk about that story when it's time. I think, you know, I think it'll be awesome. But I thought it was really fun. And then the reaction on Instagram when you see people like because not only is it an old watch, but it's a rare watch.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And it's also a watch that's kind of difficult. to know that you got served. It's not like asking Rolex or somebody who's dealt with Rolex for 30 years to like tune one up and get, or like when you had, even when you had your Tudor, which I want to say is like a 76 MS, getting that redone, it's got to be a different task than having a Teagraph redone.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I mean, when, when the watchmaker here did the service, I mean, he literally had to manufacture movement parts that had worn out that he couldn't get. So, you know, yeah, definitely. movement wise a little trickier, but then also even, you know, I guess seals, gaskets and things do come in standard sizes to a certain degree. But yeah, it's funny when after that dive, I sent a photo of me underwater with that watch to my watchmaker here in Minneapolis. And he just, all he wrote back was, I'm having a heart attack right now. He was very much against me diving it, even though it tested out to like 10 bar of water pressure, you know. Oh, that's funny. But he's like, he said, I'm a technician. I can't guarantee that You know, it's not going to leak. Things, you know, whatever, things happen. And I was like, well, that's on me then. I'm going to try it.
Unknown And then, you know, kind of speaking of old watches made new, you have a new pickup as well, right?
Jason Heaton Yeah. So I got to thank one of our listeners, Brian, who heard, I guess it was our Basel episode, that I had really loved the Zodiac Aerospace GMT from Baselworld, and that I lamented the fact that I hadn't picked one up, you know, because there were only 182 made, um, they disappeared really quickly. And, um, so Brian, you know, he heard that and he wrote me, uh, sent me a direct message on Instagram and said, Hey, um, I heard your remark about the Zodiac and I, I got one, but I'm kind of going to hold, I think I'm going to hold out for a Tudor Black Bay GMT. Um, and therefore I haven't even taken the plastic off. It's still in the box. Um, are you interested in it? And I said, yep. So this was all while I was in Bonaire. Um, So I, it arrived, uh, you know, the day after I got home and I sized the bracelet and put it on and it's, uh, it's on my wrist now. And what a spectacular watch. It feels very much like, um, the like kind of similar thought to the Boliva. Um, very much a nostalgic feel to it. Um, very summery, very, uh, appropriate for the time of year that it is and kind of looking ahead at travel and vacations. And, uh, Yeah, so far I love it. I'm a little leery of the polished center links on the bracelet, which I've never been a big fan of. But you know, I was thinking about it this morning. I'm going to resist the urge to brush those out or whatever, because I think it's good to kind of stretch yourself every now and then. Try something new. You've been dabbling in gold watches for probably the past year now, and it's kind of fun to get out of your comfort zone and see if you like something new. Maybe I can do, I mean, this isn't a huge stretch, but you know, a polished bracelet is a little out of my comfort zone. So I'm going to see how it goes for a while.
Unknown I think that's a great idea. And yeah, on gold, it's gotten bad. I've made some near decisions recently that were pretty crazy for me. We'll see. We'll see where that goes in the future. But yeah, hemming and hawing on watches that I never, ever, ever, ever considered I could possibly own. So yeah. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, it's fun.
Jason Heaton I've rambled a bit about my new acquisitions and my trip. Um, you've been bouncing around between New York and Toronto a lot lately, uh, just kind of keeping busy, right?
Unknown Yeah. It's just been kind of a ton of work. I actually don't really have that much to, uh, to report on. I have some more interesting stories that are going to happen due to travel in May. I have kind of three, well, we'll call it four separate engagements, all of which are kind of big. Wow. But in different ways. If you know the the sporting calendar in May, you can maybe guess where I'll be at the end of May. And other than that, I think the other ones are a little bit more offline. Um, but there should be some great stories, uh, attached to those for Hodinkee. And, uh, yeah, I mean, for the most part, just literally just like working and traveling, I'm bouncing between the two cities a lot. I was in the, I was in New York a bunch last month. I'll be in New York a bunch in, uh, in May as well. And just trying to stay in the mix. Um, I'm not even sure, like I was trying to, I was like looking through my luggage to be like, Oh, what have I like picked up or enjoyed recently? Like. I mentioned my Leica Q and my new backpack, the Timbuk2 of VRT, and both have been amazing. I'm starting to learn how better to pack the VRT based on the size of its pockets. Oh, yeah. And it's working out pretty well. And then the Q is unstoppable. I'm so thrilled.
Jason Heaton Yeah, that's cool. You're using that mainly for kind of street photography and sort of general use?
Unknown Yeah, essentially anything other than the sort of photography I do like to capture specifically a watch, but everything else. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Awesome. So yeah, if it's a watch review or something, I'm still leaning pretty hard on the Canon. Yeah. And we'll continue to do so, simply because it's such an intuitive thing for me now. But the carrying around the Leica feels like you're carrying a film camera. And yeah, I mean, I rambled about it on a previous episode, so I don't have to go back into it. But that's about all I'm up to. I'm thrilled to see spring hitting pretty hard in Toronto. And I'm looking forward to kind of a big summer. I'm feeling You were mentioning how Bonaire kind of functions as your cabin. Yeah. Sort of fix. I'm, I'm feeling the distinct need for that kind of a disconnect. So whether that's some camping or a cabin somewhere in Ontario, I haven't quite decided yet. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I, uh, you know, looking at some possible vacation time and that sort of thing, feeling a little bit, uh, I don't know, just kind of like medium, medium burnt out. I mean, I think it happens to me in April, uh, when you get through the show season. Right. And, uh, and the days start to become a little bit longer and, and, and you kind of want to do not 60 or 70 hours a week of work plus whatever travel. And you want to kind of just do, uh, do a little adventures for yourself. So we'll see, we'll see where that goes in the next little bit, but I don't, I don't have a ton to report on for this week.
Jason Heaton Well, maybe we should, uh, jump into the main topic. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Um, so, you know, we, we get asked a lot and we we've talked about on the, on the show in the past. Um, kind of what our favorite straps are. And, you know, this is a moving target because, uh, watch straps are always being introduced and new styles and tastes change. Um, so we thought we'd kind of revisit the topic, um, to kind of, you know, kind of catch up with, with a number of the direct messages that I'm sure you get and that I get regularly about, Hey, what do you think of this? Or what's your favorite strap for diving? Or what do you like for, you know, how do you, how do you like that isoframe strap, et cetera, et cetera. So. we, you know, we thought we'd just sort of do a kind of a lighter lift episode, but also one that, that like you mentioned earlier is a bit nerdy. It's not even about watches. It's about the way you attach them to your wrist. So, yeah. I don't know what, what, what kind of order would you like to go in or how do you want to tackle this?
Unknown I mean, you have them kind of divided up by the type of material, which I think works largely okay for me. If there's a, if you want to start with that, we can, we can go that way.
Jason Heaton Yeah. So rubber straps. I mean, rubber is, kind of where I started with watches way back in the late 80s with my first Seiko, and arguably Seiko is well known for its rubber straps. They make a really good rubber dive strap, and I've had a share of those. But since then, I think rubber straps have evolved. I know it's not your favorite style, is it, rubber?
Unknown No, I think there's two rubber straps that I like, and one you gave me. It's an actual vintage Tropic.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown Um, I love that a lot. I'll wear it on a 20 millimeter, uh, watch and, and it's, it's like on a skin diver, it feels like you're like walking back into the sixties. It's great. It's super comfortable. It's like, it works really well in the summer. And then the only other one that I found that I like legitimately attached to was the Everest rubber for my Explorer 2.
Jason Heaton Oh yeah.
Unknown Right. Uh, and it's just such high quality, uh, manufacturing. Uh, you know, it's a nice buckle. The rubber's really comfortable. The blue is so different. from how I normally wear the watch that like you just want to you just want to go in a different direction with the watch for a couple of days or for a weekend on a boat or like in a more aquatic sort of scenario where like the rubber makes a lot of sense, then super. I think that's the way to go. Those two, I absolutely adore. And I mean, the Everest is I guess you could call it expensive. I actually don't think it's that expensive if you consider like what an Oysterflex costs or or what it costs to buy the OEM rubber for an Omega or Breitling. Like these are of a similar quality. uh you know they're between 250 and 300 bucks and uh and i think if you have if you have a really nice sport watch that occasionally you'd like to you know take it to a different sort of feel on wrist i think that's a pretty good way to go and then the the tropic the vintage tropics i think those that's something you just kind of have to search for on ebay and and my guess is i i believe they're between like 80 and 100 bucks yeah that sounds about right and and i find that those vintage tropics they're
Jason Heaton You're right. They're fun on kind of a vintage watch or, or if you put it, I don't know if you've tried yours on your, I think you have on your, uh, Sea Rambler Doxa 300. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, it's great on that kind of watch. Um, the straps do at least for my wrist, which is about seven and a quarter to a seven and a half inch wrist. They do run a bit short. Um, and they feel a little brittle and maybe a little flimsy. I'm not sure I would dive with one, but, um, then again, I don't know. Never say never. Um, but they're just fun. Um, they're almost like an alternative to a leather strap in that way.
Unknown Uh, yeah, I would agree. They, they do kind of work like an alternative to leather, but for, for rubber, you've got quite a list here. So what do you like?
Jason Heaton Yeah. So, um, you know, most recently, I guess when I did dive with the Teagraph in Bonaire, I, I did it with the watch on an isoframe strap, a big beefy, um, 20 millimeter orange isoframe. And isoframe is a bit of an acquired taste. They're beautifully made straps, very high quality. You feel like there's nothing that can break them. The buckle is huge. but they do tend to be kind of stiff and while they're pliable they are not the most comfortable strap. I also have, so Toxic NATO, our good friend Terry out in Colorado, he makes kind of an isofrane lookalike strap, which I have a couple of those and they're a little bit softer. Otherwise the appearance is identical. Quality is high quality, so I like those.
Unknown Yeah, I like the Toxic as well.
Jason Heaton And then do you know these, these porthole, I don't know what they're called exactly. They're sort of a porthole rubber strap. So they almost look like an isoframe because they have that beveled cut at the end and they've got those slots for the, for the tang of the, of the buckle. I don't know what those are called, but they're really hard to find. And I, I don't, I think Watch Gecko might sell them, but they're, they're really excellent because they're a little bit thinner than an isoframe, but they have that real seventies sort of a seventies diver look. You know, I think the old Hoyers, Hoyer divers from like the eighties used to come on them and Um, so I like those and then you can get some sort of tropic, uh, lookalikes, um, kind of knockoffs that look like the old ones. Uncle Seiko sells a few. They're, they're quite stiff and thick. Um, so I haven't quite found just the perfect one. I know a friend of mine has, uh, one of Zodiac's tropic style rubber straps, uh, that he wears on a Doxa and that's super nice.
Unknown The Zodiac is the best I've come across. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Those are great. And then I guess, um, the last of kind of the, aftermarket ones that I wanted to mention was was Barton watch straps. They had sent me a few last year to try and and you know I'm a little skeptical of kind of real silicone based straps but but theirs aren't are not tacky they're not lint magnets and they come with kind of a built-in quick release spring bar which makes them pretty easy and they've got kind of a nice text texture to them that looks really good on on a watch. So you know unless you go OEM and and certainly you mentioned Omega and Omega makes a really good strap and I think Bremont has some really nice straps. They're Temple Island rubber. Yeah, the Temple Island's really nice. The ones that come on the Supermarines, yeah. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of rubber for me, I guess.
Unknown Yeah, I mean, the only other one that stands out for me is, I mean, it could have fallen into this camp or the NATO camp, but we've talked about it a bunch before. It's the Zulu Diver 328, which we know is being retailed by Watch Gecko. And I'll put the link in the show notes, of course, but it's made by a company called Bonetto Cinturini, and it's this thin, rubber NATO that has pin capped hardware. And you can actually swap the hardware around to make it a Zulu where it doesn't have an underpass or a second underpass. Yeah. Or you can wear it as more of a traditional NATO. And the idea is that you would cut the tip so that there's no there's no like folding or overhang. It's kind of sized for you. And I have a couple of those. I've used them a lot. I remember before I did Mount Baker, I got one in, put it on my Explorer 2, which I'd had owned for maybe a week or two at the time, and then didn't trim it and was able to wear it on the outside of my jacket all the way up to the top and just had to go with it kind of extra long as you get warm when you're mountain climbing, you end up not wearing quite the same amount when you do something like Baker. Yeah. But that's a, that's an absolutely fantastic strap. That's about 42 pounds. So I bet you, by the time you got it somewhere, it would be more like 70 shipped, that sort of thing. So it's not a cheap strap, but I would say it's worth that money. It's a nice strap.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. I remember you gave me one and I still, I use it. In fact, I took that second bit of underpass off and I I'd like to put it back on. So I'm glad you reminded me.
Unknown Yeah. It's, it's kind of cool the way that it's, it's seen the, the second keeper has like a shoulder, so it bends.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And you can actually just remove all of that and take the first keeper and stage it one step out. And then you can have a single piece, which is, uh, it's nice. You can wear it either way you want. They come in like, I don't know, 10 or 12 colors, maybe more like 16 colors, NATO, uh, like camo colors and all these kind of bright colors. I have a couple in gray. I think they're, I think they're really good and definitely, definitely worth the money. Watch Gecko, um, you know, seems to have a pretty solid business and, uh, and they, they make kind of a handful of the straps that we'll end up talking about.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Well, um, you, you know, you, you kind of bridged into the next one, which is NATO straps, the namesake of the show. Um, and you know, a while back we had been selling, uh, sort of supporter packs, uh, which included a toxic NATO strap, a gray NATO, of course, with a TGN on the buckle. And if, if you're one of the lucky people that got them, you know, uh, they're, they're still great. I still have them on several watches, but, uh, what other NATOs do you like? Or why do you like toxic for instance?
Unknown Uh, yeah, Toxic's absolutely my favorite. Uh, I like them for a number of reasons. They wear really hard. They're not too thin, but they're also not too thick. Yeah. Uh, so they're just thin enough to fit through the spring bars comfortably on a Rolex. Um, but they're not, you know, like the other one that I really like is the Phoenix ones. Um, but they have polished hardware. I would prefer it brushed. Um, the, the material that Phoenix uses is very thin. It feels like one strip of material. Yeah, whereas the the toxic ones feel like a material wrapped around a sort of core, a very thin core. They fray, I mean, all of them fray, the toxic ones fray, but they take a lighter really well. So it doesn't bother me at all. And I really like that they're not especially shiny, they don't feel like seatbelts. And they have this kind of horizontal graining. Yeah. In the fabric, we get a lot of emails from people trying to either sell us or tell us about other NATOs. And they're like, Oh, it's this really shiny, smooth, high quality seatbelt like material. And immediately I want to be like, I'm not even clicking the link. I don't care. Like, I like the NATO to feel kind of like the cuff of a sweatshirt. Oh yeah. Where it has a texture to it. I don't like shiny, smooth things. Like Omega makes this really lovely NATO that people really like that costs 250 or 300 bucks. Like it's not cheap. Yeah. But it feels like seatbelt, like it's this smooth, super fine. It doesn't feel tough. It doesn't feel like the strap on a backpack or the cuff on a nice sweatshirt or something like that. Right. And I really like the... Yeah, definitely the... They used to be called the N80, N80 and NATO. They used to be called that from Toxic, but now they're just called a nylon watch strap. And so the 20 millimeter nylon watch strap, you get kind of upgraded hardware, lots of colors. I would say, you know, you might have to do a bit of watching to find them in gray. They seem to go pretty quickly when they're around. And then they also offer different hardware options from time to time. So I would say definitely keep an eye on Toxic. If I'm wearing a NATO like 95 times out of 100, it's a Toxic. The other one I've come across that I really like, as we spoke about with Everest and the rubber straps, is they make a 20 millimeter NATO for their line of watches. So that would be probably less an Everest NATO and more a Manta NATO, depending on how you want to look at it. But the Manta 20 millimeter NATO is probably the nicest NATO I've ever come across, period. I mean, it's just really great hardware, fantastic fit. On the Doxa, it's literally a perfect strap. Um, and you know, they're not super expensive, but they're not cheap either. They're retailed by Manta. They're called a mill style strap, but you have to realize that the same people behind Manta are the folks behind Everest. So they know straps really, really well. And so you get, uh, again, this is a, a, a no fold over sort of NATO. It comes in one of four colors, it's 55 bucks and you're supporting, you know, like an American family owned business, which I kind of like. And these are just really, really, really nice NATOs. We got a handful of them in back a while ago and did like a little giveaway with a hat and some other stuff. I think these are about as good as they get. The toxic ones are more simple. They feel like they're maybe a little bit more coarse of a material, but I like that the Manta doesn't feel fancy or soft or smooth. It just feels really nicely made.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I agree. And I love the holes on them. They're a little bit bigger and they're sealed nicely. Yeah. Yeah, they're well thought out. They're wonderful straps. The other ones I like, you know, I used to be, years ago when I first got into watches, kind of the standard bearer for NATO straps was, besides Phoenix, was Maritac. Oh, sure. So the guys that, I think they're the same company that makes Marathon watches. Canadian company, I believe, but, you know, still very tough, incredibly durable NATO straps, but I never quite warmed up to the look of them. They're little, shiny, a little bit, I don't know, the weave is different. They feel like plastic. Yeah. They feel kind of plasticky. Yeah. But I still recommend them for people that like want a tough NATO because I think they're really well made.
Unknown Maritech also used to offer what was my single favorite nylon strap until I came across the Toxic ones, which was a single pass with a fabric keeper. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it's really good. If you hate NATOs, but like you like a purlon or you like you like the idea. I highly recommend I'll see if I can still find who sells them like maybe broad arrow does or something like that. But yeah, I'll see if I can find a link and I'll put it in the show notes. But imagine like it's NATO in length, but it doesn't have any of the additional hardware. It has almost no hardware. Yeah. And then it has It has a buckle, and then at the top, it has a horizontally opposed, like a loop that goes in the other direction, which is what you fold the strap through. And like on a Seiko diver, like on a nice sport watch, it works really, really well. And they were cheap, I used to buy them for 15 bucks or something like that.
Jason Heaton Yeah, yeah. I guess the only other one I would mention is I really like... Well, Crown & Buckle makes some nice NATOs, kind of basic NATO straps, good quality. if you just kind of want a basic NATO strap. But the other one I was going to mention was Haviston. I know you're not much into striped straps, but I do like a couple of their patterns.
Unknown They're really well-made.
Jason Heaton Really well-made. I love the packaging, come in a little tin. They kind of have this sort of, I love where they take their design inspiration from kind of the livery of, you know, aircraft carriers and rockets and things like this. Just kind of the overall vibe of Haviston is good and the straps are, they're almost too thick and soft in some ways, but I do like them on some watches.
Unknown Yeah, I would agree. And the other one to keep in mind, you mentioned Crown and Buckle, is they have different levels of NATOs.
Unknown Oh, right.
Unknown So they have a Standard, they have a Premium, and then they have a Supreme. Oh, yeah. And I think the Supreme, if you like one that's a little bit shinier, I mean, this is one that the Supreme strap won the Editor's Choice for Gear Patrol. This is a very high quality strap for $34. Yeah. their gray is a nice kind of saturated gray. The hardware is really nice. This is a great strap and it has an edge. It has an edge detail. So it feels like the edges are kind of been sewed up. Oh yeah. It's a little bit more, um, premium, uh, I guess in this case, Supreme, um, and, and, uh, just really, really cool. You know, uh, these are also the folks like crown and buckles. They make a number of their premium level, which I think is like roughly their mid-level NATO that's about 16 bucks, but they've worked with other brands.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown So they've worked with Kill Hubris, who we're a big fan of too, those Lizard Camo Nados. And they've worked with a number of charity causes and that sort of thing. So they have a lot of straps. So if you're looking for maybe your first step into Nados and you can't get the color you want on Toxic or something like that, maybe go grab a Premium and a Supreme from Crown & Buckle. I think you'd be really happy with either and or.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And then I guess to move out of Nados, I mean, there's a couple of sort of overlap type that aren't quite NATO, but aren't anything else really. And that one would be the, like a Gas Gas Bones strap. He's been making for years and he made them and I'm not sure if he still does for Bremont for some of their watches, like the MB2, you can order them separately.
Unknown Yeah, I know he used to for other models, like a variety of models, and then their production was too high. Because it's just one, this one dude, his name's Carl, he's a sweetheart. He's very good at what he does. He makes these really amazing, they're literally handmade. He's a line of incredible watches. If you'd like classic kind of British military style aesthetic watches, he makes some great stuff. Definitely check out Gas Gas Bones and obviously Lincoln Notes and all that sort of thing. I, for a very long time, have had a custom 00 strap from him, which is kind of a twin loop. So you have two loops of leather that hold the lug, the spring bar for the watch, and then it's a kind of single pass Velcro strap. And like on a chunkier watch, it's so good and it's so nicely made. And yeah, he does great work. I mean, definitely not a traditional NATO or something else. It's kind of his own thing.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And I think he does a really great job with it.
Jason Heaton Yeah. They feel very tactical, very, I don't know, you feel very sort of burly and, you know, capable when you wear that kind of strap. Yeah. And then I guess the other sort of overlap one you briefly mentioned was like a Perlon strap, which I haven't quite found just the right Perlon, but I've heard, and maybe you know of this, the Crown & Buckle Perlons are quite nice.
Unknown It's my favorite one for sure. And, you know, I credit Jason Lim of Hallios Watches for getting me into Perlons. And so I have this kind of mil-green, olive-green sort of Perlon that like on, you know, like with a Gas-Gas Bones or with like a big thick NATO, you kind of want a big thick watch. With a Perlon, you need to go the other direction. Oh yeah, right. So the Skin Diver, maybe the Doxa, certainly the Explorer, the Explorer 2, these work really well on the Perlon. It's just super comfy, like summery strap, it's kind of woven. It kind of has that like laid back casual, but not like too casual vibe to it. Like if you throw that on a vintage watch and then go out, you know, doing something kind of, you know, fancy, maybe a wedding or something in the afternoon, you could do pretty well, I think. Certainly a good strap and I've been happy with it.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I need to pick one of those up for something. I don't know. Maybe it would work on the, on this, uh, on this new Zodiac or the bullet.
Unknown I think it could be really cool on the Zodiac for sure. Um, and then the other one that kind of feels like it's, it's sort of not one, it doesn't fall, like it kind of falls into its own space or the Erica's, uh, MN elastic straps.
Jason Heaton Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Those are, um, those came out, um, Erica started selling those, uh, with Ernest around the time that Tudor released the Black Bay that came on the strap that was inspired by those parachute reserve pack straps. And she has really just skyrocketed. And now she's doing partnerships with Bell and Ross. And I think I've seen her on some other watches. Really cool straps, really unique.
Unknown Yep. Yeah. And I have, the funny thing is, is I don't typically wear, like I have an Erica strap that I really like, which is a gray one with an orange center stripe.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown and my buddy in Vancouver, Sherlock, gave it to me. And I do dig it quite a bit. I don't wear it that often, but then the nicer weather was coming out and I was going to do some traveling this week and I wanted to wear the Doxa because it makes me smile. And so I threw this on the Doxa and it is just such a pair, the gray orange strap with the silver orange watch. And once you figure out that you never like you see people wearing them wrong on Instagram, like they're not set up correctly. But these Erica straps, they never open up all the way. You're always pulling your hand through the elastic and you simply use the little adjustment or you use the loop to to adjust the size perfectly. So you can change the size really easily if your wrist kind of expands. It's hot or whatever. Yeah, I think they're like one of the most comfortable ways to wear a watch.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And the question is simply finding the one that's just right for you. And I think for me, it's probably a solid gray, duh.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown But this gray with a bit of orange is like a little bit of fun with the Doxa and I think it's a good way to go.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I mean, the sheer sort of number of types of straps, I mean, even the ones we mentioned from rubber NATO to gas gas bones to Erica's to kind of a standard NATO to the single pass. So many subcategories within just NATO or non non-rubber, non-leather.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton But I think, I think we've covered it. I mean, I think we can probably move on to probably the final main category. I mean, bracelets are certainly a category of their own, but, but let's, let's just jump briefly into leather. I think you and I are probably winter leather strap guys. You know, when the warmer weather comes, I tend to switch over to NATO or wear my, my bracelet watches.
Unknown Yeah, I would say probably stick mostly to leather. And for me, this is going to sound entirely kind of shilly, but I promise that it's not. I genuinely believe the Hodinkee shop has the finest selection of leather straps in the world right now. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I have specifically, I really love the reed strap, which is it's a French goat leather. It's super soft. It feels like a strap you've had for a long time, but it looks brand new. It comes in a bunch of different colors, has contrast stitching. I have one in green and one in tan, and I kind of just keep them in a zippered pouch that I travel with and I can change my strap. And the green and the tan work on like any watch. Really, really easy to work with. They come in a few different sizes. But if you go on the site, you'll quickly realize the shop has like an unbelievable number of straps on offer at any one time. And we're constantly launching new straps. Um, so sure, technically I get paid and Jason gets paid by Hodinkee. This podcast is partially supported by Hodinkee, but these are, these are straps I've spent my own money on and will continue to do so if I need a leather strap. And what's happened is I actually buy fewer leather straps. So the Hodinkee stuff is expensive. It's really nice. Yeah. But I buy fewer leather straps because they're not wearing out and because I don't hate them. Right. So I don't, I don't start looking for other stuff. I can just be happy with that strap.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. I think even a subcategory of leather straps would be like Cordovan, like Horween Cordovan shell straps, which, you know, Hodinkee sells some. I've got a couple from my friend Myron who runs Rover Haven straps. And I almost want to, not try and experiment, but wear leather a little more often in warmer weather, like in the summer. Shell holds up particularly well. You can actually even take it in the water. Myron's always telling me. He takes his snorkeling and swimming and that sort of thing, which I haven't quite gotten into. Um, but I, I think, uh, I think leather in the summer is still a very doable thing. And, and, you know, I might try more of that this summer, but, uh, yeah. Um, the other thing I want to note too, is that with, with leather straps, you know, for years it was always black or brown. And like you mentioned with the reed strap with a green or a gray, um, nowadays you can get some really cool, sort of different colors that go with different dial colors, different clothing, um, and just kind of lend a different look and are a little more versatile. So, um, yeah, I mean, I think I've kind of warmed up to leather more in the past, I don't know, five years than, than I ever did before that. I was never really much of a leather guy. I was always a rubber guy.
Unknown Uh, yeah, I would agree. And for me, like I've been NATO for so long and before that I wore these kind of um like hadley roma or i'm trying to think of the other brand hersh that hersh thank you i wore these big hersh thick straps yeah yeah that had kind of a brightling vibe and like that's not at all like i think a strap especially when you get thin and strong which is where the whoreween comes in really well or kangaroo leather Yeah. It can be really incredible. I have a brown kangaroo leather NATO, which I'm not actually sure where it's from. I think you gave it to me. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's absolutely like a perfect strap. It's super thin. It's super strong. It flexes a little bit, but not too much. And it's definitely not stiff. So I like those a lot. But, you know, I definitely think there's a case for, yeah, finding kind of the leather strap that you like, having it in a few colors and just kind of having it to jump between one watch or another.
Jason Heaton Yeah, definitely. Um, and then I, you know, I can't leave leather behind without, uh, you know, giving a shout out to bund straps. Uh, you know, I wrote that story on Houdinki over the winter. Um, I don't know. I kind of went all in on bund straps, uh, including, you know, running a NATO strap through a bund pad, um, as a little experiment and bund straps are so polarizing. I mean, I post a picture of any watch on a bund and every people, you know, people love it. People hate it. Um, which is the fun, fun part about it. Um, I'm a little, little off bund now that the weather's warmed up, but, uh, you know, I'll get back to it in the fall. It's a perfect kind of fall, winter, early spring, sort of rich, warm, sort of way to go with, especially like an older watch or something.
Unknown Yeah. I have not, I have not found any love for a Bund yet, yet, yet in my heart, maybe as, you know, as my, my, my Grinch heart grows a little bit bigger. Yeah. We'll, we'll find, we'll find some space for Bund, but I definitely like, I definitely like the way it looks on your wrist. I don't know that I have the wrist for it. necessarily, but I dig it when you've got, especially like with the Bund on the docks, it's matching time for time. It's like when you see an old car on the proper tires and the proper wheels, it's just right.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Well, I guess the last category is steel. Well, not just steel, but bracelets in general, metal bracelets.
Unknown Yeah, for sure.
Jason Heaton Most of them, you know, are the ones that come on watches, but you've been able to kind of dabble a little bit with aftermarket steel. I have not really gone that route much.
Unknown Yeah, so I have kind of two, I guess, that I would bring up. And one is like a fairly simple 20 millimeter kind of shark mesh.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown And these are all over eBay. They're typically not that hard to find. If I remember correctly, I believe I bought mine from Wgene28, who may or may not still be selling on eBay. This was seven or eight years ago.
Unknown Oh, yeah.
Unknown Why I can remember that and not like someone's name that I met 30 minutes ago, who knows? But yeah, so that, and it's like, I remember cutting mine with a Dremel. So I'm sure that they've become, I didn't want the little like removable screwed link segments. I just wanted two pieces of mesh and the clasp. Oh yeah. So you had to cut it with a Dremel, which is fine. I don't mind you throw it in a, literally put it in a metal vice and then run the Dremel across it. Yeah. a The shark mesh is always fun and certainly you can get into the Melanese stuff and the finer ones and you can get ones that are brushed or whatever. I think I bought mine polished because I wasn't thinking and then I used like a scrub brush to take the polish off it. Oh yeah. And then just Dremel'd it to fit and I've been wearing it for five or six years but maybe more, maybe more like seven or eight years at this point. I've had it for a long time. pretty straightforward. I'll see if I can find one. If not, just like literally go on Strapcode, go on eBay and like, look for mesh, you'll find stuff. It's not it's not gonna be too difficult. The the other one which I'm hesitant to recommend because they're never in stock anymore. But that's this Hadley Roma. Jubilee. It's like a fake version, like a knockoff version of Rolex's Jubilee in steel. Yeah. Uh, so it's folded end links and kind of like, like, like with the shark mesh, a really cheap sort of clasp. Uh, but the rest is solid links. It's pretty easy to size. It looks like a Jubilee. And if you kind of compress the link a little bit, it, it suits the Explorer 2 really well. So I'm not going to spend upwards of a thousand dollars to find a Jubilee that would, and then swap out the end link so that it would fit my Explorer 2. I'm just not.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown But I do kind of like the way it looks on a bracelet, especially a bracelet that's not the Oyster. I have quite a fondness for the Jubilee bracelet. And so I picked this up and at the time it was maybe 50 bucks, 52 bucks. So I would say that what you're going to look for, it's a 20 millimeter MB4216W. I'll put an example of it, which is sold out in the show notes. don't at me about how it's sold out. I know it's sold out. They seem to be always sold out. Even when, I'm not saying it's sold out because I have one. I'm saying that like, even when I was buying it, I had to wait a little while for Holblins to have one. And then you just, you could, you know, either sign up for a thing that tells you when it's available or just put it in your kind of daily links and check it every now and then. It's not a big deal, but that's the, that's really the extent of my appreciation for a bracelet. I don't wear my docs on the bracelet. I don't, I don't really wear a lot of bracelets, but I do kind of dig this one.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I mean, my appreciation for bracelets is mainly when you get a watch that comes with a really superior or good OEM bracelet. Um, and I still have a huge fondness for, um, just the simple folded end link oyster bracelet that came on my 140 60 M Submariner. Um, it's just such a comfortable bracelet. Not to mention the beads of rice that, that came on the, uh, the old T graph. I mean, just, I really have a fondness for very, for old style or old. metal bracelets, I find that most of the new ones are too thick, too heavy, too wide.
Unknown They're too perfect.
Jason Heaton Yeah, they're too perfect. Yeah, they don't drape nicely, which is probably why you like that old Jubilee.
Unknown Yeah, and when you get across, like not that long ago, I had a solid gold 1675 on wrist at the Hodinkee office, and that had this Jubilee, like again, the gold proper matching gold Jubilee, but basically a perfect gold Rolex in my opinion. yeah yeah and uh and i i wore it around for a day and i mean that bracelet on that watch it's thin it's light it didn't have any stretch it was in really really good condition but like even if if you wore it a lot and it got really rattly yeah it's just it's just better yeah i like it better i like them a little bit iffy right when it comes to some of these bracelets like like the the the the one on your docks is incredible the bracelet on my um on my Aerospace, the solid titanium bracelet. It's so good. It weighs nothing. It's the right thickness for the lugs of the watch, so it suits your wrist really well. It doesn't overpower. It's got a spring in the clasp to micro-adjust as you move your wrist around. That's good stuff. It weighs nothing. And then you look at something like a modern Rolex bracelet, and it's like a thing of engineering beauty. The tolerances are insane. The finishing is incredible. The clasp is wild. Yeah, and and then you put it on it's just heavy and it feels super modern and it loses some of its charm And I just think like I want this watch on a NATO yesterday.
Jason Heaton Yeah, right. Yeah Yeah, very few get it right these days and and it's like it's almost like they aren't listening to what people want which is sort of drapey and light and Slightly less than perfect. At least that that's my taste.
Unknown Yeah, I mean it is for me Maybe it would change if I spent a 10 10 10 K on GMT master or something like that. Yeah, right, right
Unknown Well, what do you say you want to swing in the final notes?
Jason Heaton Yeah, let's do that. I think we each have one. I can jump in first. Yeah, sure. So a couple of shows ago, I recommended the Terra Incognita, the adventure podcast, which is a British podcast series. And they're up to actually 18 episodes now. So if you didn't check it out, then they have a good sort of backlog now that you can dip into and find somebody that that's interesting to listen to. Each episode is mainly an interview with a well-known, or not so well-known adventurer. Many of them are British. Martin Hartley, the polar photographer, was a good one. Megan Hine, who is kind of a survival expert, who works on a lot of film sets and was kind of a key figure in sort of Bear Grylls, kind of working behind the scenes to keep him safe and work with the film crew. She was a really interesting listen. But the most recent one is with Conrad Anker. You know, both of us love Conrad Anker. He's kind of an icon of mountaineering. He was in Meru. He found Mallory's body on Everest years ago. But more than anything, I saw him speak in person locally here a couple of summers ago, and he's just a really engaging, thoughtful, kind of, I don't even want to say intellectual, because he's not overly intellectual. He's just a really thoughtful, kind of quiet, humble guy who has a lot of interesting things to say. Yeah. Episode 18 of the adventure podcast is with Conrad and, and just whatever he talks about. I just enjoy listening to him. He's got, he's got kind of a great delivery. His voice is very pleasant to listen to. And, um, you know, he's a mature man who's, who's done a lot of amazing things. And on the other hand, he's, he's also lost a lot of close friends over the years to his sort of dangerous lifestyle. Um, so yeah.
Unknown He was great on a normal cast as well, which I brought up on a past episode. And so if, if, as long as he's still on podcasts, I think we're okay. Like, I love having his perspective on stuff and he seems super, like you said, super thoughtful and really dialed in and, uh, and, and definitely like he's responding. He's not reacting to the world around him. I like it. It's good. Uh, so I, I will definitely, that one's downloaded. Cause you sent it to me, uh, you know, previous to this recording to take a look. So, yeah. Uh, it's just sitting on my phone, have to, uh, maybe on my next flight, uh, I will, uh, dig into that. So that's good. Uh, mine's a super easy one. It's a, it's summers, summer for this hemisphere. And, uh, and certainly. If you're in my scenario, you got to start, uh, having some appreciation for things like sunburn, especially on, uh, on, on your face. So. I think this is the year that I moved to maybe wearing a baseball cap. I've been fighting it since I was in my very early years. I never really liked them. I couldn't really get behind them. So I've been on the hunt for months now, at some level, for a baseball cap that I really like. And I was in New York the other day, and I went down to Best Made, one of my absolute favorite stores in New York. It's in Soho, or I guess maybe just between Soho and Tribeca. And Best Made is, we've talked about Best Made has to be many, many, many times on this show, but they're kind of a curator of all sorts of various, uh, really nicely made and interestingly designed, uh, products. We generally men's goods is what you'd call them. Hard goods. Right. Um, but it's not like a menswear store as much as it is like, if you want a really great field jacket, they'll have the best one out there. If you want a great ax, that's kind of what they're known for. An interesting pocket knife, um, a field guide to some birds or plants or you want a new bandana or, you know, it's just kind of this rustic. Yeah. Rustic millennial sort of vibe to curated goods. Right. So typically whenever I'm in New York, I like to make a swing by there as much as possible. I try and avoid making it every time because it's expensive. They make they carry very good things.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown But I typically can't leave without buying stuff. And so much of what's in the store makes a really fantastic gift. So I end up just with like a little, little cache of best made stuff that kind of comes back and forth with me to Toronto. And then eventually I'll be, I'll be hanging out with somebody and I'll be like, or my, I'll see my dad or something. Oh, I, this thing's cool. Like you should have this or something.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown Anyways, uh, they carried, uh, quite a few different hats on their website. Um, but most, most notably the one I found is this Japanese canvas ball cap. And so it's a hundred percent Japanese cotton. It's constructed in the U S. So I guess that means it's manufactured. Obviously the materials from Japan and it's a really basic looking. So the, the best made logo is just a simple X. And so they offer it in Navy blue and they offer it in kind of a military green. I have a very large head, which is the only reason why this selection would make final notes is if you've kind of a big head and you typically avoid baseball caps or like me, you don't like sports.
Unknown Yeah.
Unknown Which is, I think the other world in which big heads can have hats as if you want to, you know, you want to rep your favorite team. Right. I don't, I almost tried to think of a team to make a reference to in that last sentence and I couldn't. Um, that's the level of my sporting knowledge. Um, so I, I really liked the way these look. I like that they don't have a specific brand on them, but they aren't just nothing.
Unknown Right.
Unknown It's a color match, so it's green on green or navy blue on navy blue, a color matched hat with a color matched, very simple X logo. So I'll be picking up one of these probably either this afternoon or tomorrow. I'm back in New York because we're recording this. And yeah, I'm excited for it. And I think it's kind of like something to consider for your summer, freshen up your style. Maybe if you have a beat up sport team hat, go with something a little bit more elevated with something like this for for your summer and keep the sun off your face. Try and stay without all the sunburns.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. Nice idea. I could use that advice as well. Especially coming back from the tropics with less hair than I used to have years ago. It's definitely a growing concern.
Unknown Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jason Heaton Well, I think that wraps it. I don't think we stuck to the short episode we thought it would be.
Unknown No, we tried. Yeah, we tried. As always, thanks so much for listening and a big thanks to Hodinkee for supporting the show. Hit the show notes via Hodinkee.com or the feed for more details. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at J.E. Stayson. You can follow the show at TheGreyNado. If you have any questions for us, please write TheGreyNado at gmail.com and please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music throughout a siesta by JazzArv via the free music archive.
Jason Heaton And we leave you with this quote from Jim Watkins, who said, a river cuts through the rock, not because of its power, but because of its persistence.