The Grey NATO - Ep 68 - What Watch Should I Get?

Published on Thu, 15 Nov 2018 09:00:08 -0500

Synopsis

The hosts Jason and James discuss how it's difficult for them to recommend specific watches for listeners to buy, as choosing a watch is a highly personal decision. They emphasize the importance of trying on watches and developing your own taste through experience, rather than relying solely on others' opinions. They suggest buying and selling watches as a way to explore different styles and learn what you truly like. Jason and James also touch on the topic of watches as investments, cautioning against expecting significant returns and advising focusing on enjoying the watches themselves.

Transcript

Speaker
James Hello and welcome to another episode of The Gray Nado, brought to you by Hodinkee. A loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches, this is episode 68, and we thank you for listening. How's it going, Jason?
Jason Pretty good. I have to admit, I'm a little jet-lagged, so if I kind of stumble and bumble a little bit, I had to take a bit of an impromptu trip to Sri Lanka since we recorded last, actually. Had a bit of a family situation over there, which has turned out to be okay, but it necessitated some long hours on an airplane and a 10 and a half hour time difference. So I've been back about a week and I'm still kind of waiting for my, the fog to clear a little bit. But yeah, other than that, it's yeah.
James Stupid DST got in there as well.
Jason Yes, exactly. Yeah. Lost an hour and I guess we gained an hour is how you look at it, but yeah. So, but other than that, yeah, doing okay. How about you?
James Yeah, things are fine here, you know, just kind of settling into the fall, really. Yeah. And it feels like more of a transition this year. It might be the travel thing or I'm not sure, you know, busy days, of course, and just thrilled to have a chance to sit down and chat over the last couple of weeks with you. Yeah. You know, before we dig in, I did want to say like a huge thank you to everybody with all of the support of the now this will be the third episode that we've put out working with Hodinkee and The comments have been like super positive, super constructive, really helpful. And the listenership has grown. So to all the new listeners, thank you so much. Jason, I really, really appreciate it. And if you ever need to get in touch with us, obviously thegraynadoatgmail.com. Leave a comment on the post and Hodinkee. We read all of those. Or you can find us on Instagram, of course. So whatever works that way. But yeah, do you want to dig into how it went in Sri Lanka? Yeah, sure.
Jason What you got up to? Yeah. Well, like I said, it was kind of more of a sort of a family visit trip. I had an ill relative over there who's thankfully on the mend, but I did have a little bit of free time to do a little exploring just around Colombo, the city. And one of the kind of cool things I always enjoy when I go there, and I've been there several times over the years, is, as listeners might know, I'm a bit of a Land Rover nut. I've got an old Series 3 from the 70s. whenever I go over there, um, they're, they're kind of everywhere. And I always enjoy sort of the different, uh, uh, different defenders and series trucks, uh, that you see around in the streets. And it just so happened that while I was there, there was a, um, an annual British car show that was being held at the Jaguar Land Rover dealer in, in Colombo, the capital of Sri Lanka. Um, and I had, uh, you know, a free couple of hours and, and got myself dropped off there and, It was, it was really fun to see, you know, just the, the lineup of vehicles, um, not just Land Rovers and Jags, but, uh, just, you know, everything. I mean, Sri Lanka was a former British colony and Commonwealth nation. So you do get a fair number of, of British vehicles there anyway, but it was just old Jags and Morris and MGs and triumphs. And of course Land Rover. Um, so it was really cool and it was fun. I put a post up on. on Instagram as well because I also met an older gentleman who's the father of a friend of mine who lives over there and he's a former British Airways mechanic who lived in England for a while and then moved back to Sri Lanka and brought an old Land Rover, not dissimilar to the one I have, back to Sri Lanka and I went and visited him at home and got to kind of pick his brain and look at it. But it's neat when you travel and whether it's watches or a certain vehicle or cameras or whatever it may be that you have that bond, that sort of built in bond where it's sort of a global community of people that you can sort of instantly pick up and talk about something with. And I kind of found that when I was chatting with him and then also at that, uh, at that car show just to kind of, you know, share war stories and, and, you know, um, pick people's brains about, about these vehicles. And, and, you know, I've also gotten a few comments on Instagram, uh, on some of the photos I posted from, from Sri Lanka and people saying, Oh, Hey, you know, next time you come, we should do a, like a watch get together or we should do some sort of a, um, I'd love to meet up with you. And, and I think that'd be fun. I don't often have a lot of free time when I go, but it got me thinking that, um, it would be really fun to do sort of a watch get together. So if there are any great NATO listeners out there that live in Sri Lanka and, and would like to, to get together or organize a little event, um, just an informal kind of pub get together to chat about watches. Um, I'd be game. So, uh, you know, drop me a line. You can do it through, uh, the gray NATO at gmail.com or just ping me on, on Instagram through a direct message.
James But, uh, I love that idea.
Jason It's just fun, right? I mean, you probably experienced the same when you, when you travel a lot and, uh, you just bump into people that, that are into certain things. And, and I love that. Um, I think that's the beauty of these kind of quirky hobbies that we have that, uh, that you get these people, random people all over the world that are into the same stuff.
James Oh, I totally agree. I think that's a super cool idea, especially because it's like, maybe there's only two or three listeners out there, but maybe they know, they know each two or three people and you get 10 people together and have a really nice evening in, you know, a part of the world that is uncommon and you might get some new perspectives. And I mean, I guess Sri Lanka is fairly common to you now. Um, but I think, you know what I mean? And, uh, yeah, I love that idea. Yeah.
Jason Super cool. Yeah. So it was, um, it was a fun trip. It was, like I said, it was tiring, but, uh, you know, and it's a bit of, bit of not just culture shock, but sort of environment shock. It came back to, you know, we're in the, just above freezing, there's snow on the ground this morning and over there it was pretty sweltering as usual, but, uh, um, you know, contrasts are the spice of life. So it was, uh, it was a good trip. Absolutely. Yeah. And you were, you were in, um, I think you were in New York. for about a week while I was in Sri Lanka. I was catching a bit of that on social media.
James Yeah, so I was in, I actually didn't, I was shooting so much for Hodinkee, I put almost nothing on Instagram. I find that I, does this happen to you where you kind of go in waves? Yes. With your level of interest with Instagram, like posting?
Unknown Yeah, yeah, definitely.
James Like I find, I find that like if I have, if I'm holding a camera and running it all day and likely taking a lot of pictures that like could go on Instagram, I don't want to sit there, transfer a photo, edit it on my phone. I want to sit and just mellow for a moment. And sometimes I lose that hustle. If it's not a press trip. So when I go to New York for Hodinkee, I'll basically work out of the office for a week and be in some meetings and maybe do a recording, that sort of thing. Maybe shoot some video. There's different sorts of needs that if you're on site, And as soon as I'm there, it feels different. It's not a press trip. I don't feel like necessarily beholden to produce a bunch of Instagram work. And I'm not going to bother everyone in the office by taking pictures of them and then putting them on Instagram or something like that. You just kind of relax into that. And my mother wrote me and she said, Oh, you must be very busy. You haven't put anything on Instagram. I was like, Yeah, I guess you're right. I haven't. Yeah. But yeah, it was... I mean, New York, that was my first time in New York in the fall. Oh, nice. And I absolutely love it. I got an awesome Airbnb in Chelsea I was really happy with, and I had a really great time in the city. I got a chance to see Free Solo, which when I left, or roughly around the time that I left for that trip, wasn't playing in Vancouver and now is. Oh, okay. But Free Solo, and you have it on your list for today's pre-show chat. Yeah. Free Solo, you absolutely have to see. If you're listening to the Greynado, Yeah. You already like Free Solo. Yes. We don't have to, like, we've definitely talked about it a ton. And, you know, there's, there's, there's a lot there to like, but it is like, it's super, it's super grenado.
Jason It totally is. I mean, it's, you're right. It's, it's, it's very much up our alley and I think we both were kind of chomping at the bit to even talk about it. And I'm glad you got to be able to see it. You were able to see it because when it opened in Minneapolis, it hadn't opened in Vancouver and I remember I sent you a photo of the movie poster and you said, Oh, you know, you're lucky and whatever. So I'm glad, I'm glad you got to catch it as well.
James And, uh, so yeah, they've only done one showing or they had only done one showing in Vancouver and it was like mid October. It was loosely, I think, connected with a film festival. So it played at the Rio and sold out immediately. And now it's my understanding because I ran into some guys on a street corner, like two guys I didn't know that were talking about Free Solo and I kind of like interjected and said like, guys, that's awesome. You have to see it. Yeah. And they're like, oh, it's playing at Scotia. Like it's playing at one of our normal like Cineplex. Oh yeah. So I'd like to see it again if I get the free time. I definitely don't have the free time in the next few days, but if I get a chance, I definitely would like to see it again. And if I'm lucky, it'll be playing at the Scotia that's like, um, in the marine area of Vancouver, which has one of the best projectors I've ever seen. I saw Blade Runner a couple times there.
Jason Really good. I think we probably would be remiss if we don't back up slightly and explain what Free Solo is, because I think we're both so sort of rabidly excited about this.
James That's fair, yeah.
Jason There might be a few listeners out there that aren't familiar with it.
James So it's the latest documentary from the team that brought us Maru, which is Jimmy Chin and Elizabeth Chiavarzarelli. I guarantee I'm saying that name slightly wrong. My apologies. We've definitely talked a lot about Maroo and since I started talking about Free Solo, people are telling me to watch Maroo. So like everybody knows that there's like a circle. Yeah. Maroo is an amazing climbing documentary about like a huge wall in Pakistan and Jimmy Chin and Conrad Anker and Renan Ozturk. It's about two attempts on this wall. Free Solo is about something so much more pointed. Yeah. And it's basically this kind of prodigy climber, Alex Honnold, who we've definitely talked about before. We definitely have linked, you know, the last episode I linked to his TED Talk about this climb. Oh, right. Yeah. And so we've definitely covered the topic loosely, but this is essentially a sports documentary, but I would say it's more about... It's a documentary about someone's mindset. Yes. Very much a character study. Absolutely. And I would say that his brain, is like perfectly designed for what he's managed to do. That's true. Yeah. And, uh, it's, it's about, uh, Alex Honnold, this, uh, climber that practices a type of climbing called free soloing, which is no ropes, no protection. So you have chalk essentially and shoes, climbing shoes. And, um, and it's about him climbing a route on, uh, on El Capitan in Yosemite Valley. Uh, that would be difficult to climb with ropes, like very difficult to climb with ropes. And he climbs it without ropes and very fast. And you know, a lot of people, myself and Jason have said like, this is probably the athletic achievement of a generation. It's an absolutely unprecedented thing mentally to be that dialed in. And the film is like beautifully shot. It has some fantastic, like two camera interviews. They kind of crisscross the actual climbing endeavor with Honnold's endeavor into a relationship with his girlfriend. And it gives you a really stark contrast about the way that his mentality is maybe a plus for climbing and maybe a negative for interpersonal relationships.
Jason Yeah. It was a very, it was a very stark, um, dichotomy between, or, or, you know, in looking at his character, you're right. I think, um, I was trying to think of other things that he would be well-adapted for with his mindset, and relationships I wouldn't say is on that list. Maybe watchmaking? I don't know. He just has a very single-minded... Yeah, he'd probably make a great diver. Yeah, probably make a great diver.
James Like a cave diver.
Jason Very in focus, very mindful in the moment. I'm hesitant to say selfish, but there's just a certain sort of... I don't even want to say obliviousness to the rest of the world, but he's very much kind of lives in his head, you know, in a good way.
James Yeah. I think that, I think that he's like, and I think there's, there's many times in the movie that they kind of established this, that like the relationship thing is something that he's kind of learning. Yeah. But he spent his entire life learning how to do the rock climbing thing and to do it at a level where fear doesn't enter the math the same way that it does for other people. And, uh, and I think it's got, you kind of, it's kind of like seeing somebody that's like, hyper specialized at one thing attempt to do other things yeah there's there's a scene that like i was in a small movie theater and there's a scene in the movie where him and his girlfriend walk into like a home depot yes yes and yeah that's my exact reaction is you laugh you this is not his environment yes yeah it's like when you it's like i instantly felt like every time i've ever been in a costco
Jason It reminds me, there was a movie I saw years ago, it was, I can't remember what it was, but it was about a war veteran who comes home from Afghanistan or something. Yeah, Hurt Locker. Maybe that's what it was, and he goes to the cereal aisle at the grocery store. He can't pick a cereal box, yeah, yeah.
James Yeah, it kind of had that same feel to it. It's a fantastic, it's an amazing scene, an amazing movie for sure. Yeah. But yeah, just to see the stark contrast, and that's just excellent filmmaking, in my opinion, is to follow them. Yeah. They're buying a fridge or something. Yeah, yeah. But you see He takes three steps in a Home Depot and you go like, nah, that feels wrong.
Jason Same with the house, the house that they were buying. I felt the same way. Yeah. Very strange. Very, yeah. I felt like the title Free Solo is just perfect because it describes the type of climbing, but it's also, it's, it perfectly describes him too. You know, he's free while he's solo. I mean, that's, that's his, that's his nature. He's just so raw and just, it's just him. And, um, yeah, fantastic film. I've got, I've got a little something in the final notes that I'll bring up that's related to this as well. But, uh, it was great. I would say, um, if you haven't seen this movie, I mean, you have to see it. It's just a prerequisite for, for being a great, great NATO listener.
James Absolutely. Go on, uh, it's on Nat Geo is where you can find the Showtimes all over North America and probably other places. I'm sure they're showing it all over the world, uh, to some extent. And, um, I'm sure that they're also expanding it. So if you don't see it now, you know, check back and then I guarantee that at some point when it makes it to a streaming service or you can buy it online, we'll mention it again. For now, I think we've probably done a lot on Free Solo and on Alex Honnold, but this is, I don't like movie theaters. I don't like going to movies. I don't seek out movies. The last thing I saw in a movie theater was Blade Runner, which I think is worth it. If Roger Deakins makes a movie, I will go to the movie theater and see it. For Free Solo, see it in the theater if you can. It's kind of really, it's one of those rare scenarios where it's fun to see it with a crowd. Yeah. The woman to my right, and it was a very small theater, so there weren't fancy seats or anything. I was very close to the woman to my right in this movie theater. She was breathing so strangely throughout the climbing sequences of this film. Her heart rate must have been higher than Honnold's, I guarantee it. Very, very worried, right? Oh, that's great. That's great. And it's funny because you know he lives. Yeah, yeah, of course. The movie's about the achievement, not necessarily about the rest of it. Yeah, yeah. But people were very worked up. And there's a couple flying shots that give you an idea of the fact that it's not like a straight wall, like there's parts where you're negative. Yeah. And yeah, the crowd loves that stuff. It's great. People covering their faces, covering their mouths, gasping, all that. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, so definitely see that if you can. Other than that, yeah, you know, I had a great time in New York. We did a series of get togethers and I met people that expressed appreciation for TGN, all of them. So to all of you, So this was at the Brunello Cuccinelli event, the Carl F. Bucherer event, and then Stephen's book launch. Yeah. So our illustrious colleague, Stephen Polverant, has co-authored the updated version of The Watch, now called The Watch Thoroughly Revised. And I'll put that in the show notes. It comes out really soon, November 13th is when it will actually ship. And I know that the Hodinkee Shop will also be selling signed copies, which is pretty cool. Nice. And the book looks really great, but they did a party at the Armory, which is like a really awesome menswear store in New York to celebrate that. So we had three really fun events. I was the guy with the camera. If you're at the events and didn't realize it was me, I was the guy running around trying to get pictures of everyone's watches. And so despite occasionally running around with my, like a chicken with his head cut off, I did get a chance to chat with quite a few people. And I just wanted to say, like, thank you so much for the kindness. And like, I love that I can be in a city that's not my city. And just because I'm into watches and because of a silly podcast, I suddenly have some friends. Uh, I appreciate it. Everybody's super sweet. And, uh, it actually leads us to the next phase for New York, which is Jason and I will both be in New York for the Hodinkee 10 celebration weekend. So it's the 10 years of Hodinkee. So if you can be in the city or live in the city from Friday, December 7th to the Sunday, uh, which is the night. There is a ton of panels going on by now. You can go on the website and register your interest for the panels. There's a ton of stuff to check out, but Jason and I are going to be in the city and we don't exactly know our schedule yet, but we would like to, you know, if possible, maybe do an afternoon at a pub and hang out a little bit. I'm not making any promises at this point. It's more of a dream than a reality, but as soon as we know what our timing is, we're going to spam it out on Instagram. So make sure you're following Jason at Jason Heaton, myself at J E Stacy. and then the show at the Grenado. And we'll communicate more, probably, I would say, probably once we're on the ground. So if you're coming in for Hodinkee 10, pay attention. If you live in the city, pay attention. Hopefully we get a chance to hang out. And certainly, even if we don't end up doing some sort of a hangout in the city, Jason and I will be at most of these events. And certainly we're also involved in at least, what, two or three of them, I guess, directly.
Jason Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited for that. Excited to go to New York and excited for, um, what looks like a pretty incredible weekend of, uh, of events. And, and yeah, if we can, if we can carve out a couple of hours to hit up a nearby pub and just get people to come over very informally, just, just meet. Absolutely. Yeah. Have a beer. Um, we'd love to do that. So yeah, keep an eye out and, uh, we'll let you know. Um, I have one more kind of sort of TGN movie, uh, mentioned here as well. I, a couple of weeks ago I went and saw, um, first man, which is a, Also a very sort of TGN movie for a couple of reasons. I mean I think you and I have some interest in space history and the space program and of course it's about Neil Armstrong. But there's a healthy dosage of Omega views in the movie. Armstrong wears a couple of different Omegas that show up and apparently Omega went to some trouble to make sure he's wearing the exact proper references including two different vintage Speedmasters, um, that show up in the movie, which you don't even, you don't even notice if you're watching the movie. I mean, you see a Speedmaster and you know what it is, but you would have no way of knowing that it's even not even a, uh, um, like a modern one. Um, but I think it's really cool that they went to the, that trouble and, uh, the movie itself was great. I think, you know, to see that, I think I saw it within a couple of days of seeing free solo and kind of, you know, a bit of overlap, again, a character study about a guy who is very disciplined, very kind of single-minded and very, kind of lives in his head, very much an introvert, very much an analytical person, but also someone who's just, was incredibly good at what he did and, and also a very humble person. So, you know, I don't want to dip too deeply into movie reviews here, but I do recommend seeing First Man if you haven't, you know, we're not Ebert and Cisco and Ebert here or anything like that. But yeah, I think it was a good, it was a good month for kind of TGN related or TGN appreciative movies. And I think First Man and Free Solo were a couple of real good ones.
James Cool. Well, I think that's great. How do you think we maybe zip right into the main topic then? Yeah, I think it's a good one. Yeah, let's do it. So this episode's main topic is answering the question, what watch should I get? So I would say this is loosely related to, let's call it a small frustration on Jason's part and my part. on our part, that I would say the majority of DMs that I get on Instagram, and Jason, you can weigh in, we get a lot of emails to thegreatnadoatgmail.com as well, are people asking like, what, I have this much money, what watch should I get? Or I have, you know, I like this watch, this watch, and this watch, what watch should I get? Yes. Yeah.
Jason I get quite a few of those.
James Yeah. And while I certainly understand the motive of like wanting to reach out to someone who maybe has tried these watches or lives and kind of breathes watches, um, the, you know, the process of deciding what watch to get is like, it's super personal. And, you know, I have, I have trouble doing it when it's like a family member or a friend, and you just want to say like, just buy this. And then they go, Oh, but I wanted like a dial. That's not quite that black. Or I want it. I don't want, you know, I want it on a bracelet, not on a strap or something like that. And as much as Jason and I appreciate the kind of faith that you would put in us for that topic. I've come down to really, and I'm sure many of you have gotten this email reply, I've come down to really having kind of a formulaic response, which is like, we can't tell you what watch to buy. We can tell you what watches that we really like. And typically they're asking between three watches that we really like.
Jason Yeah. And certainly it might sound a little bit dismissive to kind of just shoot it back and say, sorry, can't help. And we certainly don't mean to do that, but you're right. It's such a subjective choice. And I think to ask more, kind of specific questions of us or anybody else, um, that you respect or that might own a watch of some sort or has tried one, um, gets you a little bit closer to maybe the answers that, that will help you make that decision. But in the end, it has to be, it has to be your decision. It's your money. It's your wrist.
James Yeah. And I think what would be helpful in explaining, because I also agree that it sounds dismissive to just say, like, you have to buy what you like and getting there is kind of your journey. So instead of just putting it in those kind of two statements, which is legitimately how I think it's best answered, unless you know nothing about watches and you're literally saying like, Hey, James, what's a good watch? And I say, Oh, it's a Seiko SKX007. And you go, Oh, okay. And then you buy it and then you wear it. And then we don't talk about watches again, really? Yeah. Like I have a couple of cousins that have done that. And like, I'll see them three years later and they're like, Oh yeah, it still works. It's great. Yeah. I think the easiest way to understand our viewpoint is to kind of backtrace our personal journeys through watch taste. Because where I got today, and let's say I use... Let's say just for fun, we use the examples of the watches we spoke about in the last episode. So my Explorer II and your CWC Royal Navy Diver. Yeah. While I think those are both watches that appealed to me when I started my interest in watches, I don't think I would have bought them then and understood them the way I did I don't think I would have bought my Explorer 2 10 years ago and had the same appreciation I do for it now. Yeah. There's a path that you cut your way through watches, and there's a few different methodologies of doing that. If you have a local Red Bar crew, I think you can shorten your path because you'll get to see a bunch of watches and put them on your wrist. I think the key is trying stuff on, actually putting the watch on your wrist, then you understand how As nerdy as it sounds, like how 14 millimeters is too thick, but 12 is okay, but 48 millimeter lug to lug is perfect, but 51 is too long or whatever your personal preferences are. And then it also gets you through some of the more, the stranger stuff. Like if you get a chance to say experience a Doxa, which you can't see in a store typically, those are weird and they fit differently than other watches, but they're super great on wrist.
Jason Yeah. And I think that's, The danger too of asking somebody, um, you know, which should I get a Doxa sub 300 or a, um, you know, something similar, uh, you know, Seiko something or the grand Seiko diver or whatever it is.
James Yeah.
Jason Marine master. Marine master for instance. Yeah. That's a good, good parallel. Um, it's, uh, objectively, um, so many of these watches in this space, in the luxury watch space, which, you know, luxury can be $800 up to $80,000 for that matter. They're of such similar quality these days with such narrow differences between them that, you know, I might, you and I both are really fond of Doxa's aesthetics and design and build quality. But I remember when I first started out, I was not a Doxa fan at all. I just, I didn't get why people liked them. I thought they were kind of ugly, you know, the sort of real strange shape with that kind of small bezel and big minute hand and garish colors. Um, so, so things evolve, but it also has to do with trying things out and, um, yeah, Doc says you can't buy in a store. So yeah, if you can find somebody that has one or even a good friend that'll, um, send you one just to try out for a while or something.
James Um, but yeah. So I think, I think what, what's, if I, if I was starting over again, you know, this is a question that like Tim Ferriss will put in his podcast at the end is like, if you could tell your 30 year old self, like what, what would you do different or some advice or something like that? So if I was 20 again and just starting to be watch curious, um, I think what I would probably do is, uh, I think what I would recommend is if you consider yourself a real watch enthusiast, the goal has to be experiencing watches. And that that's going to include buying and selling watches. Typically, if you can borrow watches from friends, like if you have friends with watches, awesome. That's an awesome shortcut. If you have a really good ad nearby. another awesome shortcut, but there's always going to be watches. If you wanna try on an Archimede, a Stoa, a Doxa, a Hallios, and none of your friends have one of those, then you can't try them on, right? Yeah. But I'm sure you and I have both had a point where from the first one or two watches that we bought that we were interested in, for me, like a Seiko Black Monster, to now, I bought and sold maybe 100, 150 watches, which isn't even that insane. There's guys that have done 1,000. in 10 years or more. Yeah. Right. But that's how you build up kind of like your internal language for watches. And that's how you develop a preferences by experiencing them. It's not that different. Like if you if you only owned one car, you'd be probably pretty good at explaining how that one car drove. Yeah. But like if you've driven 200 cars, you could probably have a better aspect of like saying like, Oh, I was too tall for that car. This car was kind of the seating position was wrong, or the steering wheel was weird, I didn't like the buttons, you start to understand the minutia. And if you're, let's say, in your first 10 or 15 watches, just use an arbitrary value, and you write Jason and I to say, should I buy this, this, or this? We don't know what that internal logic that you already have in place is. I don't know about the 15 watches you've been through to say, oh, that one, I didn't like the way the lugs touched me, or the way the case back didn't work out, or the crown kind of dug into my wrist or like a lot of it comes down to ergonomics, or at least it does for me in many ways. And I think it's super difficult for Jason or I to receive an email to say like, do I buy this, this or this? And you go like, honestly, those are like, it's always a fairly similar reply. Those are three great watches. Please try them on before you buy them and buy the one that you like the most on your wrist. It's generally that easy. I should start adding a caveat, which is like pick one of the three and you'll probably be wrong. And in a year, you'll maybe attempt to buy one of the other two, and it still may not be right. I just think there's a lot of trial and error in the process. And you can shortcut it by reading a lot about watches, obviously talking with other watch people, experiencing watches. But I think that getting into vintage cars, getting into vintage cameras, getting into shooting film, it's a trial and error process.
Jason I think what I've come down to is when it comes to watches over the years, and it's taken me a long time to get to this point, is that, and it actually is full circle because I think it's where I started with watches way back even before I was into quote unquote higher end watches, is it really comes down to so much aesthetic preference and what you like to wear on your wrist and what sort of smiles at you when you look at it. And you know, that could be a Zodiac Seawolf, it could be a Doxa, it could be a Fossil. that you can't get hung up in the peer pressure that comes, uh, you know, whether virtual peer pressure or real peer pressure from what people are saying on the forums or, or sites like Hodinkee or whatever that say, this is an important watch. This is not a worthy watch. This is a better watch. This is a good value watch. I mean, in the end, like I said before, so much about watches is so similar, even between an $800 Hallios, and a $3,000 Seiko or Omega or something like that. These differences are sliver thin at this point. Watches are incredibly well made from across the spectrum. And so what it comes down to so much is what you like to look at on your wrist day to day. It's your wrist, you're going to see it. And for me, I started out that way. I liked kind of weird I had a big orange Suunto watch. I liked the Pepsi-bezeled Seiko that I got back in high school. You know, I liked those sort of interesting, colorful, quirky watches, but somewhere along the way, I grew to believe through various means that in-house movements were important and that certain brands were more important. And even within those brands, this is a better one than this because it's more desirable or it's smaller or it's bigger. And I've come full circle. I've come back to the, the point that if I look at the watches that I wear most often, they are ones that are colorful and quirky and strange case shapes and have unique functions. Um, and I would encourage everybody to kind of, you know, you can't short circuit that necessarily if you are maybe new to watch collecting or watch buying. But I think if there's one piece of advice I would say is, is just be honest with yourself and don't succumb to that sort of industry or enthusiast community peer pressure, get what you truly want to wear and look at on your wrist.
James I mean, let's be clear, the fad always rises to the top. So if everybody says that a Rolex Submariner is great, that's because it is a great watch. But I don't own one and I don't really aspire to own one. So that's where if you ask me, should I buy a Rolex Submariner, I could say yes, which is It's the truthful answer. If you have the money and you want a Rolex Submariner, that's a great watch. But that's not the watch for me. Yeah. Right. And that's a fantastic watch. Same with a Daytona. I don't really have a thing for modern Daytonas. And the Daytonas I like are the 39 millimeter cases, the older ones, that kind of wrapped up in the mid 80s. And there's no chance I'm going to buy one of those. Yeah. My car costs less, significantly less. Yeah. It's always difficult when you get one of these messages, and I feel bad picking a little bit on these messages because I like getting them, and I like that people want input and want to share experience and access experience. I like all of that. I feel like I try and reply to emails with a very pointed response, like helpful. I try to be helpful. I get your replies to the Jason emails as well, and your replies are always super helpful and specific. And with these ones, it's so much more difficult because you might be telling someone to spend $2,000 on something they've never held.
Jason Right.
James They've never seen before and they may pull it out of the box and it may not, you may not even get it on your wrist before you decide you don't like it. Yeah. And here's my, here's where I would go. If I finished my thought on like what I wish I had done, say 10 years ago, I don't know that I would necessarily change the way that I went through watches. I bought a lot of stuff under $500 simply because it was lauded on forums, which is fine. And that's how you learn. But a lot of it was like I had I wore for 10 hours and sold. Yeah. Yeah. So my recommendation is if you are comfortable with that process, if buying and selling watches online doesn't sound too arduous for you, I would say the slush fund approach worked really well for me. So for several years, I would say like for five or six years, I basically had let's say comfortably about $3,000 in either money in a PayPal account or in watches that I was wearing. And even in my mind, that sounds kind of high, but I think that's a fair number if you factor for actual watches that I had somewhere on a desk or in a drawer, and then some money. And if I wanted to try something, I had to find the value either in that account or in the watches I already had. And that led me to sort of like operating on sort of a slush fund, whether you're trading watches or actually buying and selling to get to the, to kind of try other pieces. Yeah. Once you're kind of in that mode of like understanding how to buy and sell on a forum, you obviously now like with what you seek, you have to have a certain number of posts to be allowed to access the sales form as a seller, learn the rules, learn all those sorts of things. But if you really want my, like my legitimate insight, what I believe to be like kind of the insider's mindset is if you want to if you want to develop taste in watches and get to the point where you would know which one to buy from, say, three watches or just what the next watch should be, you need to experience as many watches as possible. And depending on your scenario, if you don't have a red bar, if you don't have friends with watches, I had neither at the time, and almost none of the blogs existed. If we go back 10 years, it was Watch Report, right? Yeah. And then it was A Blog to Watch and then Hodinkee and it's a lot richer now and I think you can get further with less, but I do like the idea of a slush fund, which simply allows you to kind of move watches in and out of your ownership and it puts value on experience rather than collecting. Yeah. If you don't really know what you personally, like super personally love about watches, collecting is going to be more about the in and out than it is about the buy and hold.
Unknown Yeah.
James You know, whether, you'll eventually become an expert. Like Jason, I'm sure at some level you're an expert on some of these esoteric dive watches, right? And in that process you had quite a few. They came and went, you started to know the ones that were really worth having. And I think that that experience requires some skin in the game, I guess is my point.
Jason Yeah, I would agree. And I think, um, you know, they're, they're kind of, if you're curious how a, uh, Blancpain, if you know, let's say, you know, you've, you've seen a few 50 fathoms come up for sale and you have $8,000 and GIC, if you come up every now and then, and I've never owned one, how is that watch? Well, if you, if you aren't ready to kind of plunk down and take that step and buy it and hope that it works, you know, there are plenty of kind of, uh, I don't wanna say homage watches, but you know, watches that are kind of in a similar vein that, that you could try and see if you like kind of a black dial diver with kind of that similar aesthetic or, um, gee, would I like a Doxa? Uh, in which dial color Doxa do I want? Well, have you ever owned an orange dial watch? You know, I, I personally don't wear an orange dial Doxa very often. I have one, but I just don't find it. I don't like it as much on my wrist. And you can get there by trying, you know, there's certainly Seiko divers or other brands that have orange dials that you can try for a fraction of the cost and just try out and see if it works. And then you do have less invested in case you, you know, you don't like it and you want to flip it. You know, also I think some of the things that, that are deemed important in the watch business, um, the, the big one for me that, that I didn't struggle with necessarily, but that I saw so much discussion of when I was first getting into watches was this notion of in-house movements and the importance or lack of, um, you know, with, with a movement that is actually designed and built by a brand and it became sort of a bit of a pet peeve of mine to kind of see that emphasis over and over again after trying out a lot of different watches and learning a little bit more about movements. And, and, uh, I personally don't take a lot of stock in, in, in in-house movement unless it does something particularly special. Um, or there's certain craftsmanship to it. I think, uh, a really good 7750 chronograph or an ETA 2824 dive watch is perfectly fine and I'm very happy to have them. I think, you know, a lot of the debate about, um, you know, uh, whether Bramonts are worth $5,000 versus an IWC based on the movement. Um, I think a lot of that is sort of, uh, I think it's sort of a moot point. I think, you know, something is, uh, let's say chronometer certified, well-finished, um, you know, don't overlook things like case finishing or unique design or a strap or the way a bezel works or, a good loom, or any number of things. A movement is just a tiny, not a tiny, but it's just one component of the entire package. I guess that's one thing I learned over the years, is to not focus so heavily on seeking out in-house movements, unless there's something particularly unique about it that you feel you value and would like for your own.
James Yeah, and I think that point is where I land on this, which is the unique to you that you would value. And that's the part that where I feel like anytime I reply to somebody saying like, oh, you should maybe buy this one. That's a good choice. I like, I'm not speaking to that part. I'm just speaking to a grand opinion. So if someone writes in and they're like, I want a dive watch, I got $400. I'm probably going to say you should buy an SRP. Yeah. You know, it's a killer watch, but like, it could be too big for your wrist or it could be, you don't like the case shape or you've already been through, like you've, you've already done all the forum searches. So you already know about the 777 or the 775 or whatever, right? And that element where like a watch applies to you specifically, and that's the stuff that we cover in collection inspections, that element is not something that someone else is gonna be able to recommend to you, unless maybe a very close friend and you've been in watches together for a long time and they see something and they go like, oh, that's Jason.
Unknown Yeah.
James Like I could see a watch and go like, Jason would like that, I'll send him that link. Yeah. If you're just writing into a podcast host or an editor for Hodinkee or someone, you're just writing on a forum, like this, this, or this, what do I buy? You're going to get very general answers that don't speak to what you like.
Jason Yeah. Yeah. And I think you have to be honest with yourself too, you know, like what is important to you? If you have a small wrist, maybe, you know, try on a couple of 43 millimeter, 45 millimeter watches before you decide that just because everybody else seems to like that watch. it just might not work for you. Yeah, no, absolutely. Do you need 600 meters of water resistance for, you know, for what you use? And is it worth it for that extra couple of millimeters of case height? Yeah.
James You know, be honest about that stuff. I mean, like I have watches, I have watches in my current collection that like I wish I hadn't bought because in the say five, six years that I've owned them, my tastes have just kind of changed. Yeah. And for whatever reason, I feel I'm much less interested in selling watches online these days, so they just kind of sit. Yeah. So I would say that there's a trial and error to the process. You have to be definitely honest about what works and what doesn't for you, and to get to that point, you're gonna have to try a lot of watches. Right. This is why watch retail still exists, so that people can go in a store, put it on their wrist, talk to a human being who knows all of the other products and can say, like, that one's three millimeters smaller, that one's three millimeters bigger, that one's a bit thinner, oh, that one has the white dial, That's why watch retail is still there. And it's, it's difficult to do, to do that sort of refining of a concept over an email. Yeah. And I guess a lot of this is just to say like, I'm sorry that, that Jason, I can't provide like the perfect watch, but like, it's, it's just, uh, what might, not only what might be perfect for us, obviously isn't going to be perfect for you, but, but also of those three, what might be perfect for you might only be perfect for you for a couple of years and you might want something else. Or you might learn something from that watch that then leads you to the one that you really want or the one that really works. It's like a complicated process, selecting a watch. And I think that if you can be mindful in terms of a process and maybe some mechanics in picking things, you'll have a better chance of finding something really great.
Jason I think a slight spin off to the main question of which watch should I get is the sort of ancillary question of is which watch is a better investment. And I just want to touch briefly on watches as investments because I think certain watches are kind of sure bets, uh, when you're talking, you know, steel Rolexes or Patek Philippe or something, but outside of just a small handful of, of kind of sure bet watches, um, it's really dangerous to view watches as investments. And I think you, you probably should just go into buying a watch because it's something you'll enjoy wearing. Um, And, and, you know, I think in the past I have, I remember when I first went, uh, uh, freelance as a writer, um, you know, I was, I moved away from kind of a corporate job where I had a 401k plan, retirement plan that was matched by my employer. And, um, you know, I was earning, earning my first money in my first year or two as a freelance writer. And I thought I should probably be doing something for retirement savings. And the one thing that I decided was. that amount of money that I was putting away for retirement at my corporate job and was being matched, maybe I could invest in something that I know a little bit about and buy one sort of investment grade quote unquote piece per year and sort of keep that. And I think, um, I've sort of backed away from that strategy. I think I, I lucked out and got a couple of nice, uh, uh, vintage Rolexes that, that I've kind of put away and, and I've kind of, but I've kind of stopped doing that. I think, I think watches as investments is a bit of a dangerous game and, um, you know, unless you're, it's sort of, it's sort of like doing a, what is it? Day trading or, or, you know, trading stocks. I think if, unless you're really into that and that's something you enjoy and want to dive in to the deep end with, it might be best to kind of avoid that strategy.
James So I have, I think this is a good topic and something to cover. A few things that I would say is one, I'd like, I entirely agree with you. There should be, your expectations should be padded with caution. I think that if you buy the right watches now, you won't lose money. That's what I would say. I'm not a watch investor. I don't buy watches for investment. Arguably the watch that I own that has appreciated the most in the span of time I've had it, I've also treated it the worst. I have no problem with that. The other thing to consider is like, let's say, let's say you buy, like, let's say Jason and I buy a watch. Well, maybe not, Jason, because you said that you have a few that you hold. I don't really hold anything as an investment. So if I buy a watch for $4,000 or $5,000 and in four or five years it's worth $10,000, that's only five grand. I don't mean to be callous, but in terms of an investment, that's doubling your money. That's awesome if it's a car, but if it's a watch and you bought it to wear it and you happen to double your money, rad. Now, that's five grand more that you can spend on, say, the next watch. But that's not retirement money. That's not buying a cottage money. That's not helicopter money. I like to think in terms of helicopter money. That's where I'm at these days. So I think that there are people who are making really good money on watch investing, but I think those are dealers. Or people who have not only a huge amount, this will take us in some manner back to the slush fund, but a big runway in terms of being able to buy watches and hold onto them. So if you're an analog shift, You have the expertise to know what's valuable now. You have the taste to know what will probably become valuable in the next six to 18 months. Yeah. And you have the money to buy and hold all of it. If you want to talk safe bets, look for rarity and general popularity and the best possible condition. So, uh, that's the only way that I could say that if you're buying a watch and you're not sure about the case or the dial, that's not an investment watch.
Unknown Yeah.
James So I would say, yeah, extreme caution on buying watches as an investment. If you know watches well enough to know, um, buying price, market price, and then popularity price, then go nuts and have a really good time. And I think like people do it and have fun and flip watches and make money. Um, I just doubt that you're going to make, you know, like you'd said, Jason, like retirement money out of it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we do have one listener who, uh, remodeled his home based on a watch. uh Sam and uh and then just recently he put he found another I think it was a JLC. Sam write me in with the details of this I'd love to maybe even have you on the show to chat about it sometime. Sam's a longtime listener and uh he's done very well with like uh thrift store finds I believe. Oh yeah yeah. I don't want to tell more of that story because maybe either Sam doesn't want it told he's put it on Instagram so that that much I think is fine but uh maybe we can have Sam on to chat about it because uh He's done some interesting stuff. So I think there's still some sweet spots like that. Obviously, if you can go to a garage sale and find something that's worth 30 grand or something like that. Awesome. That's a, that's a whole different metric, but I suppose that's also not investing. Obviously, this is just our opinion. If you have an addition, if you have notes, comments, whatever, thegraynadoatgmail.com, we'd love to hear more feedback. I'm not specifically saying don't write us messages about what to buy, but just expect that we're going to be more about promoting your development in watch taste and appreciation at a personal level than simply telling you to pick another product. If you're currently writing that email, please just consider, is there a scenario in which I can try this watch on, borrow it from a friend, see it for myself, understand what it's like in the metal? These are physical products that you actually strap to your body. So the way they interact with you personally is very important. That would be my answer. And then beyond that, just buy what you like. Everybody just buy what you like. Um, you'll learn if you did actually like it. And if you did, then you did really well, because there's a lot of people that are constantly buying and selling cause they can't quite find the perfect thing. Uh, so keep hunting, enjoy the hunt. I think that's a big piece of it. And, uh, Jason, what do you think of for some final notes?
Jason Yeah, let's do it. Um, my first one is related to, of course, our earlier discussion of a free solo and Alex Honnold. And it was a, um, a story, uh, that was put in the New York Times website and it had a short video as well and it was from Chai Elizabeth Vassarhali and Jimmy Chin and it was called What If He Falls. And of course this was kind of foremost in the filmmakers' minds when they were making Free Solo and that is that they were making a movie about a good friend of theirs who was doing something incredibly dangerous with his a sliver thin margin for error and certain death if he failed. And it weighed heavily on their minds and on all of their crew that were filming this, all avid climbers and friends of Alex Arnold. And kind of what's the moral obligation for them in terms of what do you film and do you film it if he falls? And how do you deal with that even just personally and emotionally? This little short kind of film that uses some outtakes from Free Solo and some interviews with some of the crew, it really kind of delves into that and it's very interesting to kind of get into their mindset of what they were thinking about. And you can see, and you could even see it in Free Solo, the guys that were filming him climbing were just, sometimes they couldn't even watch, you know, he'd be going through a very, Particularly tricky part of the climb and they had to look away and cover their eyes because they were just so concerned that that you know one slip and he would fall to his death and So it was a very real concern of theirs and and I think this this short article and video Kind of lends an interesting perspective kind of behind the scenes You know with the filmmakers of free solo so check that out I'm ashamed to say that I read that as soon as I saw it go up and I didn't realize there was a video. Oh, yeah
James Yeah. I think it's one of those things where it must've looked like the lead image or I don't, I'm not sure. I missed the video. I'll have to go back. I read the piece though. Yeah. Um, in, in my, you know, seeming on an unending quest to, uh, dig up as much as I can about, uh, the production of that movie. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So I will go back and watch the video too. That's great.
Unknown Yeah.
James Uh, my first one, so I have two, my, both of mine this week are essentially for, we're going to call it like fall health. fall into winter health, people, you know, you may be not going outside as much, or hopefully some of you are kind of waxing up your skis and getting all that kind of stuff ready. But I think this is a time of year where, especially now, between now and January, people kind of slow down, you're losing some of the day. And not only fitness, but just kind of like general well-being can kind of be fuzzy this time of year. Maybe I'm projecting, maybe it just is for me. This is when Vancouver becomes a much less fun place to run. where I'm running and you're just drenched and like, you start picking clothes based on how light they will be when they're soaking wet. Like my normal running shirt, this, like this Nike dry fit shirt. And I've learned recently, like relearned recently that like, if you run in the pouring rain, the shirt gets super heavy and super clingy and it's not fun. And, uh, and so it's that sort of thing. So the first one is actually a really simple video from outside online or one of our favorites. And it's from their fitness catalog and it's, uh, daily stretches. And, uh, you know, we've talked loosely about the workout thing. And I know personally, we've talked about how I don't really like talking about workouts. Cause it can sound like, like you have everything figured out and other people don't. That's not at all where we're coming from with this. This is simply like a simple, it's a video is two minutes long and it's, uh, someone doing an example of the stretch and another person explaining what you're stretching and what you should be feeling. And I think that this is like highly valuable because you know, you have, obviously you have strength, uh, training, you have, uh, endurance training, but then you also have kind of fitness and mobility training. Yeah. And maybe, maybe if you're in a scenario where it's starting to get cold and you're not like Jason, I don't know if people do people run right through the winter in Minnesota. Yeah. Sure. Some do, right. You get the right shoes and everything and go for it.
Unknown Yeah.
James But, but if that starts, you know, if maybe you go from three or four runs a week to one or two or one or whatever it ends up being, maybe invest a little bit of time daily in five minutes of stretching. I know it's a goal for me to try this. This is a huge weakness for me. My workouts tend to be around endurance and strength. And I have very limited flexibility and I spend like a lot of time sitting down. So yeah, this is my my first recommendation is it's just called stretches you should do daily from outside online. It's a simple video and I'm going to give it a try for a while and report back. And I hope a few of you do, if you, if you found this helpful, by all means, uh, I think that a lot of this comes down to like supporting each other in fitness and, and kind of wellbeing. So send me an email if you thought that was good.
Jason That's a good one. I, uh, I have to admit flexibility is a huge weakness of mine. Um, just, just, and it's, it's really cool that it's something you can do in five minutes and yet, I don't know why I don't do it, but, uh, maybe this will spur me on. I'll give it a try. Fingers crossed. Yeah. My second note is related to the Alps, actually. It's a while back, I think it was last year or maybe even the year before, there's a couple, Andrew and Julia Revit, they're both photographers. I think they're British or Scottish and they're kind of living at least part-time in Chamonix in the Mont Blanc region of France. The dream. The dream, yeah. Place I've always wanted to go. Me too. I will get someday. And they had kind of a cool website that was an Instagram feed that was sort of an eclectic mix of sort of mountain culture and cars. And they were doing a lot with cars in the mountains. And it was really cool. And they recently launched a magazine. And the first issue is called Chamonix, simply called Chamonix. And Andrew and Julia have their Instagram title is Super Alpine. And that's kind of the name. Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what you call them. It's not really a company. It's sort of their, um, what would you call it? Media outlet, uh, media.
James Yeah.
Jason Creative, kind of a creative team that calls themselves super Alpine. Let's put it that way. And, um, I ordered their book and they originally started it as a Kickstarter campaign that kind of fizzled out. I think I'd promoted it even on the Grenado last year and, um, they didn't get the funding, but they went ahead and they, they made the magazine, I guess they funded it themselves and, uh, they're selling it on a website, uh, super Alpine.co. And I ordered it right away when I first saw it pop up. And it really doesn't disappoint. You know, it's, it's another one of these really high quality, uh, beautiful photography, well-printed, um, pretty light on the, on the writing. I mean, there isn't a lot of copy, but there's some kind of short essays, but it's just beautiful spreads kind of themed around Chamonix and the mountains and the town. And I just love it. Cause I, I'm a real kind of fan of nostalgic sort of Alpine culture and and mountain culture anyway. And if you're at all into that and you just appreciate a good print publication, good print magazine along the lines of a Gear Patrol or Hodinkee magazine, I highly recommend this. So check it out. It's their first issue called Chamonix from Super Alpine.
James Super cool. I think that's great. I'm definitely going to pick that up. Anything about Chamonix I'm about. And, uh, I, I I'm happy that super Alpine did like they're pushing forward and putting some stuff out. So that's fantastic. Uh, my last one isn't like, I'll, I'll find some links, um, to kind of fill this in as far as recipes. But those who know me know that like, I don't cook, I don't function that well at a cooking level. I love to eat food. That's like, doesn't require any real preparation, like cured meats, cheeses, arugula in a bowl is like a pretty good meal. And I recently got into making bone broths. Huh. Uh, so it's a, like a hyper simple soup. Basically, if you can put some stuff in a pot and then leave the pot alone for like 24 hours, you did it. Like I said, I'll dig up a couple of recipes. Uh, I, I went off, uh, one that simply, you know, someone had kind of given me the base notes to it. And you basically take a, the first one I made was just after Canadian Thanksgiving. I took like an entire turkey carcass that people were done that my neighbors were done with.
Unknown Yeah.
James threw it all in a pot and then just threw in some random veggies, you know, your carrots, your celery, your, uh, onion, uh, crushed up some garlic, throw in some parsley, and then bring it to like, fill the pot with water. Literally. This is as exacting as I've been. And it's all been, it's all come out really, really well. So fast and loose, I think with broth is fine. Um, fill the pot with water, put a lid on it, bring it to a boil, drop it down to a simmer and walk away 24 hours later, like just strain everything out of it, get rid of all of that. And then you're just left with like, uh, you know, I have like a juice container of broth.
Unknown Yeah.
James And then throughout the day I will pour myself a cup, throw it in the microwave, put some salt and pepper in it and then drink it.
Unknown Hmm.
James Yeah. Depending on your preferences for ingesting meat and, uh, animal proteins, uh, that could be less preferable. But for those of us in the audience that don't mind, I've done it with Turkey chicken. And then just recently, just yesterday, I finished around with, um, marrow bone, beef marrow bone, which came out like really rich and fatty, almost like a jus. And it's fantastic. And not only is it super simple to make, like it requires almost no precision. Once you're done and you've cleaned up and gotten rid of all the veggies and the leftover protein and all that, the end product goes from like the fridge to you eating it in like two minutes maybe. Oh, sure. Like just heat it up and go. And then you can also use it as a base. If you like ramen or pho, you can kind of use it as a base for those sorts of things. Put your noodles, your veggies, your spices and such in there if you want to get fancier. So I'll, uh, like I said, I'll dig up a couple examples, but this is what I'm entirely about for the colder months now.
Jason Yeah. No, broth is, it's very nourishing and I think it'd be kind of a neat thing to put in a flask and take it on a hike or something. Absolutely. It's just a little bit of a Pick me up if you're a couple hours out and you're skiing or something.
James Yeah, it sounds great. So yeah, that's, uh, that's my recommendation. That's a really crazy one for me, especially like there'll be people listening in the audience that are like, yeah, you don't cook. You don't, you shouldn't be anywhere near a stove. Uh, but I've, I've got this down so far. It's, uh, it's come out really well. It's really tasty. It's super good for you. And, um, and you can control all the like salt and everything else, depending on the, on your preferences for, uh, kind of dietary restrictions. Nice. Yeah, so I think that's probably a pretty good show.
Jason Yeah, I would agree. As always, thanks so much for listening and a big thanks to Hodinkee for supporting the show. Hit the show notes via hodinkee.com or the feed for more details. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at J.E. Stacey and follow the show at The Graynado. If you have any questions for us, please write to thegraynado at gmail.com and please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazar. via the Free Music Archive.
James And we leave you with this quote from Jack London who wrote, I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.