The Grey NATO - Ep 67 - Collection Inspection Vol 6

Published on Thu, 01 Nov 2018 03:00:23 -0400

Synopsis

The podcast discusses a few topics related to watches and travel. One topic is the convenience and functionality of certain items like the ability to carry just a few essential items without a wallet. Another topic is the background story and connection behind some watches, like how one guest's watch was worn by an explorer on challenging expeditions, symbolizing a commitment to experiences over superficial brands. The guests examine the appeal and usefulness of different watches as tools for specific purposes and adventures.

The podcast also touches on the Hodinkee brand's relationship with the show, which has entered its next phase of support and connection with the Hodinkee team. The guests express their excitement for this next chapter and how it aligns with their passion for meaningful experiences and tools associated with adventurous lifestyles.

Transcript

Speaker
The podcast host Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado, brought to you by Hodinkee. A loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 67, and we thank you for listening. You know, this is our second episode that we've recorded after kind of becoming part of the Hodinkee family here, and we've gotten some great feedback from people, a lot of support, Um, you know, things, things are different, but things are really kind of the same. Wouldn't you say, James?
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Yeah, entirely. I couldn't thank people enough for the kind comments and the emails and all that. So that's been fantastic. We're thrilled that we're able to, you know, kind of push the show into it, into its next phase and make sure it's properly supported and all these sorts of things. And honestly, we have such a close connection with the team at Hodinkee. It really just makes a ton of sense. So. Yeah. Thrilled about that, and also pretty excited about today's topic. We have kind of a... This is our sixth installment of Collection Inspection, and it's always been kind of a really popular one that we get a lot of emails about and that sort of thing, and we've got two really kind of different watches.
The podcast host Yeah, we haven't... Last time we did sort of a catch up episode, it's good to kind of dig into watches, and yeah, we haven't done one of these collection inspections for For quite a while, I don't even remember the last one. It's been a bit, yeah. Yeah. So I guess we can just jump right in. Yeah, let's do it. The two watches we have are both certainly tool watches, but really couldn't be more different in many respects. Yours is your beloved Rolex, yeah?
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Yeah, it's my perfect Rolex, the Explorer II 16570 with the white dial, nicknamed the Polar. And yours is a CWC, right?
The podcast host Yeah, it's the CWC Royal Navy Diver, a 1995 issued model with the quartz movement in it. So very, very different pieces, but similar in some respects, I guess.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Yeah, for sure. And why don't you take us through the CWC, why you like it, why it's in the collection?
The podcast host Yeah. So I think I've had a couple of these before and they didn't stick for a while, but I've always been really attracted to a few things about CWC. For one thing, for those of us, and I'm sure there are a lot of you out there that just like a proper tool watch, this really fits the bill. CWC, the company, I wrote about it a while back on Hodinkee. We'll put a link in the show notes. But the background of the company is very no-nonsense. It was started by a guy who was the UK importer uh... and rep for hamilton back in the seventies and okay hamilton was a supplier to the royal air force and uh... and the british army back then and and when hamilton kind of up stakes and and pulled out of that arrangement this guy ray malore sort of took it over and said i've got these contacts in the manufacturing side of things i'm just gonna start doing the same thing and so founded cabot watch company in nineteen seventy two and they say they've done You know, they were doing hand-wound field watches and chronographs, and in 1980, the Royal Navy decided that the Rolex Submariner was simply, you know, too expensive to kind of keep supplying to its divers, and so they looked around for an alternative, and CWC stepped up and said, hey, we can do it for a lot cheaper, and they did, with kind of an off-the-shelf case that was made by a French company called MRP, and was used by a lot of different brands like Kronosport and Heuer and a few others. And, um, we're just putting ETA movements in it. Um, the automatically lasted for a couple of years and then in 83, they brought out a quartz watch. And I think the background of this watch is what appeals to me. It's, it's just, it's like, it just feels like kind of a, a standard sort of, uh, mil spec piece of kit, like, you know, like a tent or a parachute or, or, you know, a backpack that the, that the military would order. They're, they're certain. So little kind of marketing over the years from CWC until very recently, it was always just sort of a military surplus piece. And that appealed to me. And also I love this case. I love the, the kind of curvy case on this thing and the way it kind of flows into the, the crown guards is really nice. And if for something that is very much just a military kind of tool piece, um, it has a really kind of nostalgic, uh, very classic look about it. And then, of course, it has all the markings of the UK Ministry of Defense's specifications, which demand a fully hashed dive bezel, kind of that very well-known dial configuration, and then the sword hands. And then this one has the fixed bars, so you can only use a NATO strap or a poultry strap on it. You know, design-wise and sort of history-wise, it's appealing, but also I think it's really kind of the ultimate beater watch. You know, that term is often overused and everybody has their own definition of a beater, but for me, it's very much a grab-and-go watch, especially with the quartz movement. There's no date to set. You know, the battery lasts a few years, and I often just kind of tuck this in my dop kit and travel with it as a backup watch and might never even pull it out of my bag, I'm just not a G-Shock guy. You know, a lot of people say, oh, my G-Shock is my beater. But for me, I'm just not much of a digital or G-Shock guy. So this fits that bill in very much a kind of a similar capacity. It doesn't have all the functions that a digital G-Shock or something would have, but it's as equally rugged and still much more versatile, I guess, in terms of you can dress it up or down or whatever.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch For sure. Yeah. I mean, it's funny, like for me, my G-Shock for a long time has been the Aerospace.
Unknown Oh, yeah. Yeah.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch which is a pretty fun watch and a good option to kind of toss in a bag or tuck into a pocket somewhere on a backpack just in case.
Unknown Yeah.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch And I think something like this is just way more rugged, but kind of interestingly, like you said, not only is it more rugged, it's also somehow more classy. Yeah. So you really could, like in a pinch, that's the watch that you have and you're going to kind of a nicer dinner. Yeah. It's not gonna look that out of place on your wrist on a NATO, maybe have a leather NATO if you were lucky enough to have one of those in your pocket or something.
The podcast host Yeah, that's true. I've never tried it in 11.80, that's a good idea.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch I bet you it would look pretty good, kind of like a rustic style. The sizing, you wrote the sizing down in the note and because of the quartz movement, it comes in at 11 millimeters, which for a dive watch is very respectable. Yeah. And 42 by 46 by 11, that's pretty much universally wearable because the diminished thickness of a case that thin really makes a lot out of 42 millimeters. That sits right around the exact measurements of like a an old school Seamaster, like my 2254 or something like that.
The podcast host Right. And, and, you know, maybe it's, you know, no coincidence that this kind of came out of that same specification from which the Seamaster 300 and the Submariner came. But yeah, at 42, with a 46 millimeter lug to lug, you're right, it is pretty universally wearable. And surprisingly, it has, it still has some heft to it, even though, you know, a lot of quartz watches, you pick them up and it's like, oh, yep, it's quartz, but this one... Like hollow. Yeah, but this has some serious weight to it. It feels very much like my No-Date Sub. Of course, the No-Date Sub is what, you know, between 39 and 40 millimeters across. But it has, you know, obviously a similar aesthetic. But the kind of the height of it and the way it wears is very similar. And from a distance, you know, if you saw someone wearing this, you might think Submariner or Seamaster. But then you get up close and it's, you know, this kind of CWC logo with a little circle around it and this big big word quartz across the bottom of the dial. I mean, it's very unpretentious and very, it's kind of one of those inside sort of wink wink watches that, you know, if somebody knew what you had on, it's, it's just kind of got a neat background, neat story to it. And, um, I, I bought this from a guy who was actually, um, I think it was in the Royal Navy. Um, and I'm not sure if this was his issued watch, but he, he told me that, that he got it from a guy who was in the special boat service, which is a kind of the special forces unit of the Royal Navy, I suppose, if you compare it to like the Navy SEALs or something like that. And it was actually issued in 1995. So it has the markings on the back with the British, the broad arrow logo that they put on the property of the government, and then the serial number slash 1995 on the back. And those were the days when they were using tritium as the loom the luminescent material. And so it's got the circle T on the dial and it's just starting to kind of age nicely, kind of get a little bit creamy. You know, I, I have to admit, I don't wear this watch terribly often, but I pulled it out the other day and I started wearing it. And then when you and I talked about this episode, um, I've just been wearing it more and I kind of go in phases with it. You know, sometimes it's, it's a little bit sterile, a little bit stark and quartz isn't always my favorite thing to wear, but, um, I think it's a keeper, you know, you can never say for sure, but, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it, it kind of hits, it fits that, that purpose where, you know, battery will run out. I'll swap the battery, get it pressure checked, keep it in a bag and, and pull it out. Um, you've taken a diving. Yeah. I, I took it to, um, Sri Lanka two summers ago, I guess when I did that, uh, HMS Hermes set of technical dives and, um, I brought this as kind of my backup watch. And then I had my, my Rolex, uh, no date sub, which, you know, it's kind of the watch that I like to do significant things with and kind of where to kind of keep as a memento of, of adventures. And, um, I did three dives in the Hermes and I remember the first day as I was kind of getting ready, I thought to myself, you know, I, this is kind of an unfamiliar, you know, deep dive, you know, 55 meters, whatever. Um, I've got a lot of extra gear I was using. know, two side tanks and two tanks on the back. And I just thought, you know, maybe for the first dive I should kind of shake down everything and not have to worry about my watch. And so I thought I'll, maybe I'll wear the CWC, which, you know, worked out great. And the fact that, that I was diving on a Royal Navy shipwreck, it seemed somehow appropriate to wear a Royal Navy watch. And, um, so I've, it does have a little bit of my own sort of adventure history. For sure. In it, which, which is also very kind of appealing about it. So.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch That's cool. I think it's great that you're able to, you know, dive it on a ship that kind of has that connection with the Royal Navy and the watch. And obviously that held up is exactly what you'd expect from watch like that. I'm a watch with, uh, you know, a history like, uh, like this CWC diver. So, uh, as far as they go, I went on their website and they sell quite a few different models. What should someone expect to spend on a CWC Royal Navy diver?
The podcast host Yeah, so many, uh, So many variants. I looked at their website in a while and I, I went before the episode as well and looked and gosh, they must have 12 different variants of all different sort of bezel types and, um, case polishing and that sort of thing. I think the lowest price one you can get looks like it goes for 499 British pounds, which is about 650 bucks at us on up to, uh, about a thousand for, for this quartz one. Um, so, You know, it all depends. You could get the most basic, you know, $650 one and you'd be good to go. I think they're all very, very, very similar. The current ones use Luminova for the dial lume, obviously now. So it's a Circle L, but otherwise it's pretty, pretty well identical to the one I have. And, you know, they did re-release or kind of do a tribute piece to the original 1980 Automatic watch. They came out with that last year and I had one in for review. Um, the jury was sort of split, um, kind of generally on that watch because of the kind of heavy handed Fotina they used. It was almost like a dark butterscotchy kind of color, which matched, matched some of the vintage ones, but it was just a little too gold. Um, uh, but you know, if you want an automatic, so you can certainly spring for that. It, that one goes for quite a price increase. I think that one's closer to 2000 bucks, but for, for $650, I don't know. It's kind of funny. I don't almost see this watch even occupying the same sort of general realm as other watches in that price. Like when I think of 650, you know, you're talking some Seikos, Helios, I suppose Ravens, you know, whatever kind of the micro brands between 650 and a thousand bucks. But because this one is just feels like military surplus, it almost doesn't even feel like the, you know, you're buying kind of a similar watch, but I guess when you have to kind of eyeball it or compare it to something else in the same price range, Um, it holds up very well. I mean, it's got great history. I think you have to be someone who is okay with quartz for one thing and okay with, you know, quartz being prominently written on the dial. Um, and, uh, kind of get into that very stark sort of classic military look, which, um, I happen to like.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch So, and then if somebody wanted a issued version like yours, I'm assuming there's a, there's a, uh, considerable premium at that point.
The podcast host Um, You know, for a while, not really. I mean, I think I might've paid about just a thousand bucks for this one. Um, that was a couple of years ago, maybe three years ago. Um, so I'm sure they're up from there. I think they're getting obviously more scarce. Um, but yeah, you can go on like eBay or military watch resource or watch recon. And, uh, you know, for the courts issued, they're obviously a lot more, the automatics are really expensive because they only made them for two years. Um, but, uh, Yeah, I think they're still reasonable.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Not a crazy price for an issued watch either. Like when you consider the fact that some of them are just like, it's a very kind of narrow niche to follow as far as a watch, like wanting not only a certain watch, but wanting it to be issued. Like even if you went to something like the Eterna that was issued, the Contikis, they're just hugely expensive.
The podcast host Yeah. And this is basically the watch that replaced the Seamaster 300 and the Millsub, this came right after that. I mean, obviously the automatic came in between, but you're, you're getting a watch with, um, some serious pedigree and, and to have an issued piece is, it means a lot to a lot of people. I'm not kind of a collector that has necessarily sought that sort of thing out. I think if this wasn't issued, I'd still love the watch. Um, I happen to like the, the vintage of it. Um, because of the, the tritium lume, I think it ages nicely and I'm kind of a I kind of like the circle T instead of the circle L because it has that tie in with the old Seamasters and Submariners. For sure. I don't know. They're great watches for a lot of reasons and I've had a lot of fun with it. You can only wear it on NATO and everybody's well aware of our love of NATO straps. But I most recently put it on one of these sort of single piece pull through I guess RAF style or whatever they call it, straps. I got it on kind of a khaki one and it looks great. And I'm going to try it on a leather NATO like you suggested. I think that's a really cool idea.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch I think it could be a winner for sure. And I kind of like, especially in an episode where I'm going to talk about a Rolex, I like that we have a watch that, I mean, like someone could turn around and buy for well under $1,000.
Unknown Yeah.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch That I think you love and I think is very interesting and very cool and would happily kind of have one. to play around with. So I'm glad that we didn't both square up on some more expensive pieces.
The podcast host Yeah. Well, why don't we jump into your Rolex, which I've seen in person and I happen to love that model as well. I think it's a great watch.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Why don't you kind of give us a little history on that? 16570. This one's commonly called the Polar. It also came in a black dial. So those are the two versions. And the main things that kind of set this one apart for me is And the reason that I wanted it, you know, I have kind of two Rolexes that I really love. They're both from the same generation. Like I think personally, I think I would love to have some vintage Rolexes, but I also, you know, they're worth quite a lot of money. So I think I would end up feeling kind of dear about them. And I don't want that in my life. I want something that I'm comfortable wearing. I bought this for my 30th birthday and then promptly took it up Baker twice on the outside of my jacket.
Unknown Yeah.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch I wanted to wear it as you would wear an Explorer's watch, and I have, and I continue to take it all over the world. It's my go-to travel watch. I absolutely adore the case. This is that 39, 40 millimeter thinner case. It's before they went to the kind of chunkier, larger case. Certainly the Explorer II now is quite a bit bigger, both in terms of its dial proportions, and it has the orange hand, which kind of calls back to the 1655. And this one for me is like, it's essentially a perfect sports watch design. I love the white dial. I love that the markers in the hands have black surrounds. So it's a little bit less shiny. I think it's absolutely gorgeous. I love the functionality. Obviously two time zones very easily. It has local jumping. This is a very late example. So you have Rolex repeating on the Riat. I don't have drilled lugs. but I do get a 3186 movement, so it's a little bit more anti-magnetic. You have a blue Parachorm hairspring. And other than that, they made this watch for a really long time, so if you get an early one, the dial can go kind of creamy, certainly the lume plots and the hands can go creamy, and that looks awesome. Yeah. But where the pricing was a couple years ago, it's not now, especially not on older ones. These ones that like mine, you know, with the updated loom and the updated movement, they're pretty steady in the pricing and you can go and watch recon and see what the pricing is kind of sitting at. There's not really a limit to these on the market, you know, like a 3186 GMT Master II, which of course would give you the movement that's in a current Batman or the Jubilee Steel or something like that. That's a 3186. those ones were made for a very tiny amount of time. So a 16-7-10, which is the GMT-Master II with the 31-86 is very expensive. You pay a tiny premium on the Explorer II because they made them for longer. I think there was like the better part of a year and a half to two years of production of 16-5-70s with the 31-86. But I don't think any of that really matters. I would wear an old one just as happily. And I think if I bought the one that I was able to purchase from someone I trusted. I didn't spend a lot of time like hemming and hawing because I had so many options. I told a few people that I was looking for one. One of them came back and said, I have one, come take a look at it. I looked at it. I liked it. I checked out the movement, all of that, and I bought it. I didn't really think about it that much. I knew what I wanted in terms of, I wanted a 16570 in white. Yeah. And that's what I got. And I mean, I just love it. It's amazing on a NATO, it's amazing on a leather strap. I recently bought this kind of hilariously good Hadley Roma Jubilee, which I've been wearing it on. So on a Jubilee, it really kind of changes how the watch wears. It gives it kind of a different vibe.
The podcast host I think yours is the first Explorer II I've seen on a Jubilee. I can't think of anybody else that's done that. I mean, I don't even know if I would assume the older Rolex Jubilees bracelets will fit on that watch at a price premium.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Yeah, I get people on Instagram asking like which bracelet and which end link I use and I just reply like it's a Hadley Roma. You can buy them from, I bought them from a site called Hoblins. They aren't hard to find. It's a 20 millimeter Hadley Roma Jubilee. Yeah. And then you kind of have to adjust the bent end links yourself. Oh sure. So you'll fit them and see that they don't fit quite well and then tighten them down a little bit and you got to play with it a little bit. It's not that hard. Yeah. Um, ultimately the oyster it comes on is awesome. And if you buy it without the oyster, I mean, I wouldn't have bothered me if I didn't have, I have the bracelet for it. I have the original bracelet, but it wouldn't have bothered me if I didn't, because the watch really just sings on a NATO.
Unknown Yeah.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch It's so, so good.
The podcast host Does that watch on, on NATO, is it, um, I know with my no date sub from the similar era, um, there's that sort of case clearance to, to spring bar issue that prevents some thicker NATOs from working. Do you have that same problem?
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch A thicker NATO will not fit that well. You can place the spring bar, so you can lay the NATO between the strap and then squeeze the spring bar in if you want to. I have no trouble with a toxic NATO, which is my usual, or my other favorite, which is the crown and buckle premium. Those are the two that I wear constantly, and especially in the gray on the Explorer 2. I like that one quite a bit. As far as a background for how I got to this one versus another one, I feel like I see subs a lot. And that does kind of affect how I feel about something, especially if I see them, I just kind of see them constantly, then I don't feel like I need to fill that void on my own wrist. Yeah. And I adore, obviously I'm long on record, I adore two time zone watches, GMTs of different types. And at the time I was looking for either a 16, 7, 10, preferably with the all black bezel. but I would have taken a Pepsi. I would have taken any of them and found the other bezels. Yeah. 16 710s were already starting to get expensive. So at the time they were, you know, between high fours to high fives, depending, you know, American. And, uh, and I was able to get this Rolex Explorer II for significantly less than that. And it was higher on my list, but they were a little bit harder to come by just a white one. Yeah. Black ones at the time were pretty much, you could just buy them on watch recon. But when I was able to source this one in Vancouver, really easily through somebody I know and trust. Um, it was a really easy decision. The main reason this kind of landed on my radar in the first place or kind of stuck in my brain is, um, is this is the watch that Ed Vester's wore through his time, you know, conquering the top 14 peaks in the world. And his relationship with Rolex is kind of ongoing and he still wears, you know, they put out a video just the other day on their YouTube channel of, of Vester's talking about this watch. And I've definitely said before that I don't think that ambassadors work or like who wears a watch works, but like reading in Veester's book that he had found this white dial Rolex that he liked and that's what he was wearing. Yeah. He doesn't even say what it is. Yeah. In no, in no shortcuts to the top. I'm not sure he cares that much. Yeah. You know, but it means something to me. I have the ad on my wall that has, you know, Veester's walking across some precipice, scary looking ledge, and then the, the same watch just below it. Actually, the one in the ad is an earlier version with lug holes and such, but a very similar version of the watch. And that's kind of what put it on my radar in the first place. And then it's a watch where I think you see it in person. And especially in the white, the proportions are so perfect. The legibility is fantastic. And I like that the lume isn't great on this watch anymore. This watch is from about 2006, 2007, and the plots aren't that big to begin with. They're not as big as a dive watch. It's pre-maxi dial. But because it's black on white, you can kind of turn it against any available light and get an idea of where the hands are. Yeah. And yeah, you get the local jumping hour. So I land somewhere else. I'm traveling tomorrow. This will be the watch on my wrist. I'm landing in Denver, which is plus one hour. And I can very easily jump the watch ahead. I don't have to take it off my wrist. The watch has been absolutely bulletproof. I talk about a watch living up to the reputation that the brand has. I've worn it everywhere in lots of scenarios where you might not want to have a Rolex on your wrist, certainly up and down mountains, lots of hiking, that sort of thing. And it's always been nothing short of great. I can't say enough great things about this watch. The only bummer is that they kind of get more expensive by the day. I don't think these ones have popped. 16570s have not done what 16710s have done. And so I think that there's still some case to be made that it's a pretty great Rolex for the money. But the truth is, for my money, I'm buying either an Explorer 1 or an Explorer 2, and I love GMT, so it's gonna be an Explorer 2. Yeah. And I would still like to have a 16710 GMT Master, but that'll have to wait, because they have gotten quite expensive, especially given that you can find them on you know, bracelets and it's the color that people want. It's the color that Rolex just brought back. Uh, you know, there's, there's a lot of reasons that, that play into that. And, and certainly when it's so hard to buy one in a store, it has, it, it kind of reflects into what is available on the market. So, you know, if Rolex were to eventually. Redo the Explorer two, and it somehow came closer to the 16 570 than, than the current generation. then you would expect the 16570 to kind of crawl up a bit.
The podcast host Yeah. And I know you can see, or I've found sort of really beat up Explorer IIs. I think a lot of them get used as intended or by people as true sports watches out doing stuff, because it's not the most popular Rolex. It's probably arguably the least popular Rolex that they were selling for a while there. Just because it was kind of quirky and kind of fit between the GMT Master, but didn't have the rotating bezel, it wasn't a sub, et cetera. You find a lot with nicked up bezels and pretty battered. I don't know if you've noticed this, but are the black dialed ones from that generation less expensive or the white dialed ones going for a little more or doesn't it really matter?
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch I haven't noticed. I think it definitely comes down to condition. I don't think that there's a big price variance. You will find that the part of the watch that gets most chewed up is the steel bezel. And that's because what's most noticeable about it is it's not really an insert. It's like a radial finished steel. So it has this very specific pattern in the brushing. So any scratch is very evident. What you also get is like some buffing on the finish, which I believe is probably from the sleeve of the person wearing it. Not unlike what happens to the very similar brushed finished to the case of a Speedy Mark II, where one side, typically the left side, will be slightly polished by the sleeve of the guy that wore it over time. You get these ones where it's all chewed up, the lugs might be all scratched up, and then you'll see some very strange sort of wear patterns on the bezel. If that matters to you, that's not the one to buy. If it doesn't matter, there are... I still see some sometimes where they don't have a bracelet, it's kind of head only or on a NATO or something like that. and they're beat up, but these, like it's still, it's still a semi-modern Rolex. So, I mean, you could make the case that a lot of it could be replaced if it was important to you. Rolex services watches long, long over that time kind of time span.
The podcast host I think the white dial particularly is, is, I mean, the black dial is just fine, but, but I think the white dial really stands out because it's so different from so many other Rolexes, especially sports watches. And I also feel like when Rolex went from matte dial to that sort of shiny, uh, black dial on so many of their watches, including my no date sub, it changed really how the watch looked overall. And I'm, I'm fine with my sub with the shiny dial, but, um, the shiny dial for shiny black dial on the Explorer two, just looks a little too shiny next to that steel bezel. And I think the white dial, you just don't get that. It's just, it's a white dial and that black outline around the markers is just, it's so crisp. Um, and it's a watch that you could, you know, wearing on a NATO or a leather strap, um, I would feel a little more secure in shadier parts of the world, uh, wearing it, um, than, than a sub on a bracelet or something that, that is just screams, you know, Rolex and Rolex. Yeah, for sure.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch No, I entirely agree. I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll take a stand. I don't mind taking a stand. It's not going to be a popular one. I don't like the black dial. Yeah. So much of the appeal of the 16 570 is in the white dial for me that, you know, if they, if it wasn't, if If I couldn't get a white dial or I couldn't afford one or it didn't exist, I wouldn't be going for a black dial. I would have saved up and probably got a GMT Master II. I like the white dial specifically. I also think it's a markedly better watch on wrist than the current generation, which is a little bit too big. The proportions are a little bit different. I will say the current generation is better made, has far better lume, like way better, and is a nicer watch by many different measures. But the 16570 is the one that I love, and that's why I have it. And that's why it would literally be one of the last watches I would get rid of. I could easily... I would have absolutely no trouble, aside from the fact that I make my living in the watch industry, having this be my only watch. Yeah, yeah. I've experienced Seikos and I love them. I've experienced the Doxa and I love it. I've experienced a lot of really great watches, but I could end those experiences and just wear this Explorer II. Yeah. And it wouldn't bother me. This is a perfect watch. I could wear it every day. Maybe I would want a $15 Casio to take running that has a chronograph, something like that. But for 99% of my uses, this could be my only watch. I think it's an absolutely fantastic watch. And I think that up until maybe a year ago, it was a bit of a sleeper in terms of its pricing, both the white and the black dial. And I don't want to disparage the black dial. If you like the black, that's awesome. My connection with the white is very specific, so that's where I land.
The podcast host I think the history of the Explorer II, you know, you look at a certain subset of watches over history, um, that have been so purpose-built that they almost, you know, uh, they almost exist outside the realm of kind of typical sort of luxury sports watches. I think of like the Ploprof, the Sea-Dweller, um, you know, whatever the Breitling Emergency or whatever, these, these are absolute purpose-built watches. And this is one of them because from my, understanding this was developed for polar explorers and cave, you know, spelunkers, cave explorers to keep an orientation to the time of day in 24-hour darkness. And I think that sort of genesis is just such a neat story that, you know, certainly you look at any dive watch and the reason it came about was for a certain reason, but they've kind of morphed into something different. And the watch you have, aside from being Ed Veester's favorite, came about with such a specific purpose. And I think that's just, for me, the story behind the genesis of watches often plays a big role in my allure or my interest in them.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Absolutely. I mean, it's an esoteric birth for sure, with the idea that they made essentially a watch with a fixed 24-hour hand, so it wasn't even a travel watch.
Unknown Yeah.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch And I mean, to its credit, they don't call the Explorer II a GMT. Yeah. They call it an Explorer 2. It has the same functionality aside from, of course, the 24-hour bezel of the GMT-Master 2. But in its birth, it had a fixed 24-hour hand so that in the dark of a cave or theoretically in the sunless daytime of some Arctic exploring, you would have an exact reference to whether or not you were currently existing in AM or PM despite the darkness. It's clever, it's clever. It was a small modification to a watch, to kind of a platform they already had. Yeah. And it's now lived on as this kind of oddball that sits somewhere between an Explorer and a GMT Master. It has a trip lock crown, it has enough water resistance to take it diving if you wanted to go diving and not use it as a dive watch. It's just a consummate sport watch, it's just the right size and then I shouldn't talk anymore about the white dial, and then the white dial. That's what gets me. And I would very much love to have a 1655, but the prices are well outside my existence. I wore one very briefly. It's in my Instagram. I can link it. But at that UTA pop-up space, Hodinkee was selling one through the shop, this gorgeous Early Explorer II. And I wore one briefly, and man, does that feel right. Yeah. That's real good. But only with black dial. Only with black dial, and that black dial doesn't bother me one bit. Yeah. It's not shiny. Yeah, right. It's just perfect. I mean, that's a really cool watch, but they're so expensive now. I know.
The podcast host I know. My wife's boss, actually, I think the CEO of her company, I saw him a few years ago at some event, and I glanced at his wrist, and he had one of those, and he had no idea what it was. And it was given to him as a gift in 1972 by his sister who bought it in the Middle East somewhere. And once I told him, he just, his jaw dropped. He had no idea what he had. He loved it. He's worn it ever since. But it's just that kind of watch.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch It's just so cool. Yeah, for sure. And that is kind of like that story you had when you went to the Red Bull Stratosphere jump and you met that guy that had the old GMT-Master. Yeah. This is another sort of... Rolex just kind of has that thing where you see them and they've had these 20- and 30-year lives on the wrists of kind of interesting people who have no clue and also really no care for what's on their wrist aside from the fact that they know it's a good watch. Right. Right. You know, these are people who are in scenarios where like their life requires a good bag or a good car or a good camera Land Rover or a good camera or exactly. Yeah. And that sort of thing. And the rest of it, it just qualifies as good.
Unknown Yeah.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Yeah. And the rest of it is just their story.
The podcast host Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This feels like this feels like the the old canvas camera bag with the old battered Leica from a photojournalist or something. This is that watch.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch It's that kind of tool. Yeah, I hope in, say, 20 years, that's exactly what it'll be for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When it's even more scratched up than it is now. Yeah, cool. But yeah, I think it's a great watch and I think that's a really solid collection inspection. Obviously, if anyone has any questions, concerns, comments, whatever, thegreatnadoatgmail.com or throw it in the comments on Instagram or at Hodinkee, whatever works. Yeah. We'll try and keep track of all the feedback for these sorts of things. We love doing these episodes, and neither Jason and I have giant collections, so there can really only be so many collection inspections before we kind of run out. Right. We get to see and play with a lot of watches, but very few of them become ours, and so I think it's kind of fun to do one of these every now and then, and I'm thrilled by these two watches for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it was a good one. How do you feel about some final notes?
The podcast host Yeah, I've got an appropriate one to kick off with, tied on with your Polar Explorer 2. There was a kind of a great sort of photo essay article on the New York Times back in late September. It was entitled, Ice Surveys and Neckties at Dinner. Here's Life at an Arctic Outpost. And it's one of the great sort of online pieces that the Times has done recently. I think, you know, we've talked about a few in the past about diving under the under the polar ice or something where they incorporate a lot of video and some great photos. This one doesn't have quite the interactive features, but it has some beautiful photography. And it's just kind of an interesting story about a scientific base in the north of Greenland where they're studying the Arctic ice. I think it's a Danish outpost. That's manned year round and they have to keep the runway plowed and they have, it's a very stark sort of Spartan life for these scientists that live there and so they have these traditions, these things that they do to kind of keep it fun and stay sane in a very dark and very cold place and in very close quarters with each other and the title kind of hints at one of them and that is that I think every Sunday or one day out of the week they all sort of dress up for dinner and wear a necktie for dinner. So that's talked about in the article and there's just some great big full screen, look at it on a nice, the biggest screen you can find, some just great photography of the landscape and this old, I think it's like an old DC-3 prop plane that provides their transport in and out and just kind of some of the work they're doing there. I just, you know, I think you and I both are fans of Arctic exploration and kind of that, that, that really stripped back, um, sort of hard lifestyle that, that goes with, uh, with anything going on in the, at the poles or, or absolutely in the Arctic or Antarctic. So, um, check it out. I didn't see any, uh, explore twos in the photos, but maybe they were under, uh, under jacket sleeves.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Yeah. Or, or as I learned recently, um, I interviewed Jimmy Chin. Oh. Who will actually lead into my first final note. But I interviewed Jimmy Chin for an upcoming project with Hodinkee and when he's on expedition, they don't wear the watch on their wrist. Yeah. So like a Suunto or something like that. It's actually like they take the strap off and then affix essentially like a paracord necklace. Oh, sure. and they wear it around their neck. So it tucks in under all their stuff, but they can easily, you know, unzip a layer or two, pull it out and use it. And then it's also, you know, can be tucked right back in and zip back up, which I thought was fascinating. So maybe, I don't know if you would do that for polar exploring. This was very specific to, you know, Jimmy Chin in Pakistan or places where it's like very hard and the climbing is really intense, you know, Maru and that sort of thing. He's like, yeah, you don't see any watches in Maru because they're all around our neck. Oh yeah. Yeah. which is really cool, but does lead me into my first final note, which is Alex Honnold recently did a TED Talk called How I Climbed a 3,000 Foot Vertical Cliff Without Ropes. And Honnold doesn't do a lot of public speaking. Obviously, I feel like we've talked about Free Solo on TGM, but now I can't remember if we have. We definitely talked about the climb when it happened. Yeah. But of course, Honnold climbed a route in Al Capitan, without ropes that like defies all explanation. And Jimmy Chin and Elizabeth Chai Vassar-Haley, I'm sorry about the pronunciation, it's actually Jimmy's wife, you know, they made Maroo. They're also making, or they've also produced a film called Free Solo that a lot of you can probably see now in cities that you live in. It's in release at some point in theaters. I'm sure it'll be online eventually. The movie's purported to be incredible, like really insane. It's a huge climb, no ropes, full free solo. The movie is called Free Solo, but Honnold doesn't do a lot of public speaking and this TED talk is really fascinating and it's an interesting look at his personality. I'm not going to give anything away. I'm not going to like over talk it. Just by all means, hit the show notes or just go to TED. It's going to be popular for a while with Free Solo being kind of a big deal for the next bit. Check out his TED talk. It's Honnold, you know, explaining a perspective that nobody in the audience can share. Yeah. Yeah. It's really incredible.
The podcast host Yeah. I can't wait to see that. Um, you know, the few sort of interviews I've read with him, he comes across as a very, um, almost disconcertingly calm, almost Zen-like guy that, that it's not that you expect someone like that to be sort of reckless and, and uh, sort of not caring and bro-y and whatever, but he's, He's not. He totally gets what this is all about and the risks he's taking, but there's just something a little different in the way he approaches it that's very refreshing. So I can't wait to listen to that or watch that.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch The other thing that I can throw in the show notes is, it was a while ago, it was before he did the road in Yosemite. He sat down with Tim Ferriss for the Tim Ferriss podcast and had a much longer, super long format. I'll include that as well. It's a fantastic look into kind of his mindset, but yeah, The guy is, you, you, you hear him speak and you kind of see him and like he has this calmness about him and, and his words are very purposeful. And you think like, this isn't a guy that goes out of his way to risk his life, but like the stuff he talks about in this Ted talk will give you a different idea in terms of his actions and where he kind of sees the need for perfection. It's, I thought it was fascinating.
The podcast host Oh, cool. I've got another one, um, kind of interestingly, Similar, but very different from Alex Honnold. This is called, it's a movie that you can stream or buy or whatever you want to do on iTunes called Coyote, the Mike Plant story. And Mike Plant actually was a Minnesota native and grew up not far from where I'm sitting right now, who led a very interesting and adventurous life back in the 80s and 90s. He got into solo around the world sailing. Oh, okay. Wow. Along the way, he also happened to hike from the top to the bottom of South America solo. It was like 12,000 miles. He did some adventuring in Europe and even got mixed up in a little drug trafficking and was in jail. Definitely a flawed character, but a very interesting guy who became one of the greatest solo sailboat racers in history, especially American history. um, who tragically disappeared. His boat capsized, was found floating without the big keel bulb in the middle of the Atlantic in, uh, I think 1992. Um, nobody quite knows what, what happened, but you, you know, you can imagine it was a fairly catastrophic, uh, capsize. Um, but the movie is, uh, it was produced by, I think his nephew, um, And it kind of traces his life. And, and, uh, you know, by all accounts, I, I had only vaguely been aware of him from the news back then and, and kind of reading some things about him. Cause I'm a bit of a sailing buff, uh, or at least an armchair sailing buff. And, um, he was kind of one of these rebellious sort of classic sort of American sportsman who breaks into a sport that's been dominated by, you know, in this case, the French, um, not unlike a Greg Lamond as a cyclist who sort of broke into the Tour de France back in the same era, back in the 80s. Plant was someone who, you know, sort of got into around the world sailing when the French really dominated the sport and made a success of it and earned respect around the world. But he had this sort of dark side, but also a very sort of adventurous side. And it's really a great movie and it's available on iTunes. And just, you know, if you're into kind of just what makes these adventure types tick and kind of a good sort of little history story about a kind of an arcane sport. Yeah, check it out. Coyote, the Mike Plant story.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch Very, very cool. That sounds fascinating. I didn't click that link to even read anything into it. I just saw Coyote and that's not at all what I expected, not knowing his name. That sounds really cool. Definitely something that sounds like a good download for a flight to watch a little bit later offline. Uh, so my final is actually a really simple thing. It's kind of laughable because I can't decide if I like it or if I kind of hate who I've become because of it. Um, but it's this, uh, it's a, a little pocket that you stick onto the back of your phone that holds a few cards. It's kind of like cargo shorts for your phone. So I know, but like, so what I decided to do was I didn't stick it on my phone. I stuck it on my phone's case. Oh yeah. So if there's a time where I don't want that, or I don't want the bulk, or I don't want to feel it in my hand, I just pop the case off. But it's a $10 fake leather thing. It's pretty subtle. It holds three or four cards. You could probably slip a bill or something in there as well, maybe some business cards. It would stretch. I think you could keep fitting more stuff in there. But I put three cards in there, some IDs, some credit cards, that sort of thing. And it basically means I don't ever carry a wallet now, like in my normal life. If I'm traveling, then I'll have a wallet and my passport, all that kind of thing. But just for kicking around and going to a store, going out for groceries, out for coffee, something like that, I don't even think about bringing my wallet anymore, which I kind of love more than I hate having a cargo pocket on my phone. So again, I haven't decided if I hate who I've become because of this, like if I'm now a villain. Or this is just full dad spec. I'm not sure. Yeah. I definitely love its functionality. And it's easy enough to not have on the phone. I just pop the case off. I can drop the phone in my pocket or if I want it thin enough to drop my phone into, say, a jacket, like a suit jacket or something like that. It was ten bucks on Amazon. Pretty straightforward that way. Again, I feel bad even talking about it because I'm not sure if I'm just like torching some credibility. But from like an EDC standpoint, this is super handy. And I love not having to pick up my phone, my keys, my wallet. Now it's just, I already have a phone and you go and it's just a little bit more simple. There's a little bit less to carry. It doesn't feel like, you know, you don't have anything in your back pocket, which I kind of like. And it was, it was 10 bucks. And it's the kind of thing where like, I've already like more in a hole into one end. So maybe you should buy a different one. But if you like, if you go on, Amazon or whatever and like Google, you know, phone stick on wallet card case thing. You'll get like 20,000 options. Yeah. And they're all like less than 15 bucks. So just kind of pick one that suits your style. If you want one covered in pink sequins, they got that. If you want one that's kind of looks like carbon fiber, I'm sure they got that too.
The podcast host Well, I mean, I think, you know, we're all about functionality and I think the same people that criticize this sort of thing are the ones that, uh, that don't like cargo shorts and zip-off pants and that sort of thing.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch But I hate cargo shorts and zip-off pants. I would be the guy. It's a weird dichotomy I've found.
The podcast host Yeah, but you know, I step off, 24 hours of flying to Sri Lanka, and it's 90 degrees with 90% humidity, and I get off the plane, and I want to zip off my legs. I don't care what, you know. It's super chilled in the airplane, but it's super hot when you get off. It's like, you know, zip-off pants kind of make sense. And at that point, it doesn't matter. I've seen these things around, and I guess the one question I've had is, you know, and I guess it's the classic argument, like, well, if you lose your phone, you lose everything, you know? You lose your ID and your credit card.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch If I lose my phone, I have lost everything. Yeah, yeah. Like, a credit card's not gonna fix that problem. I can make a phone call and cancel the credit card, that's fine. Right. If I've lost my phone, like, my life is over. Yeah, yeah, right, right. I've lost my boarding passes, I've lost all of that, like, As long as like I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily want to have a little pocket on my phone that held a passport. Yeah. Or like if I had a card and like like if when they eventually make it so your passport's a card. Right. And not a book. I don't think I would want those two together because then you're real scared. I like I'm very protective, obviously, of my passport when I'm traveling. Yeah. With with a phone, everything's backed up on Google. I'm not going to lose anything if I lost the phone. So, you know, the convenience, I think, outweighs that to a certain extent. I mean, Talk to me after I lose the phone and a couple of credit cards and my driver's license, and I might tell you, like, don't ever do this. But right now, the little cargo pants for your phone, I'm kind of on board. Cool. Awesome. Well, I think that's a decent show.
The podcast host Yeah, I think so too. It felt like a kind of a good old-fashioned classic TGN, some good final notes. A lot of watches. And a lot of watches. And yeah, it was great. So, well, as always, thanks so much for listening and a big thanks to Hodinkee for supporting the show. Hit the show notes via Hodinkee.com or the feed for more details. You can follow us on Instagram. I'm at Jason Heaton. James is at J.E. Stacey. And be sure to follow the show if you're not already at The Graynado. If you have any questions for us, please write to TheGraynado at gmail.com and subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music throughout the show is Siesta by Jazzar via the Free Music Archive.
The other guest examining the appeal and background behind his watch And we leave you with this quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson, to be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else. is the greatest accomplishment.