The Grey NATO - EP 59 - Collecting Watches?
Published on Tue, 15 May 2018 09:00:02 -0400
Synopsis
The hosts discuss some recent travel - Jason to Italy for a Lamborghini event and Jason to Bonaire for diving and watch reviews. They talk about collecting watches - how their tastes have evolved over time, gravitating towards watches with interesting designs and history rather than just accumulating watches. Jason enjoys rotating between his different watches that have distinct styles like his Doxa, Bremont, and Rolex Explorer. They discuss not really having a "grail" watch they are pursuing, but being open to watches that appeal to their personal tastes when they come across them. The topic of collecting with a very focused theme like military watches or a particular brand is raised as a different kind of approach.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grey Nato, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 59 and we thank you for listening. We have a little bit of show housekeeping right up at the top that I'm going to get out of the way. So the first step is, is we're making a few changes just so that the show's a lighter lift for me personally. I'm kind of entering what will likely be a busier phase. in my work life for the foreseeable future. And I really don't want a scenario where I can't get a show out every two weeks. So with that in mind, sometime in the near future, if you go to thegraynado.com, you'll no longer get to our normal website. Uh, you know, when we're not doing something like the, like the, uh, supporter bundles, there really isn't a lot of value in having that website. It's just there. It's a second place that I have to put and publish the show notes. The site has a cost associated with it. So we're just going to go back to using just the simplicity of the SoundCloud page. So you can always get to the exact same show notes and show description by just going to the description area in SoundCloud or in pretty much any podcast app I've ever used. So there shouldn't be any real change there. But for those of you who do go to the website to see the show notes, you'll have to click a little bit more to get to the nested notes in each episode. And on top of that, We're having some trouble just kind of keeping up with the general level of communication between listeners and Jason and myself. So for simplicity, if you would like us to reply, please send an email. So that's thegraynadoatgmail.com. Obviously we do our best with comments, but the DMs on Instagram are just a very difficult sort of bit of technology. They don't work that well for keeping track of various levels of communication. Email is a lot easier. So please, if you're expecting us to reply, thegraynadoatgmail.com. I reply to every single email unless it's spam. And lastly, Jason, I have one request moving forward. We're at episode 59 now. Obviously we've been doing this for a while. If you've been enjoying the show for a while and you haven't left a review, preferably on iTunes, but wherever you can leave a review, if you've been enjoying the show for a while and you haven't, we would just ask, just take two minutes and leave a review for the show. It really helps the show grow in terms of how it's populated on iTunes and on other podcasting channels. So you'd give an okay Uber driver five stars, why not your TGN buddies? And a big thanks to everyone who has already reviewed. So I think that's all the show housekeeping. Jason, how's it going? |
| Jason Stacey | Good. Yeah. Busy days indeed. For sure. Hopefully some of these sort of tweaks to the protocol for TGN will lighten your lift a bit, but we're both We're both between trips, you know, it seems like a distant memory when we'd kind of be able to leisurely take a few hours every couple of weeks and record. And now we're sort of fitting it in between, between world travel, which is, you know, I'm not complaining. It isn't a bad thing. It's all good stuff. |
| Jason Heaton | Zero complaints. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just a question of there's, I don't really like any redundancy. Yeah. And while the website was helpful when we were doing things like the, uh, the supporter bundles at this point, I don't see any use for it. I think it doubles up. the amount of work that's going into it. And, uh, and I, I just, I don't want to do it anymore. So it's about that easy. And, uh, and yeah, I think, uh, I think especially with all the travel and, you know, just trying to focus on things that pay rent and that's that kind of thing. I don't want the show to become a second or a third level priority. I want to be able to maintain, uh, where it is currently. So I think this is a, a way to kind of invest in that. Yeah. Right. So how have things been? You're back from Bonaire. I'm back from Italy. It's actually been a little bit since we got back. And then by the time this comes out, I think we'll both be back from another trip. So it's one of these things with the lag on the podcasting is a little bit strange for talking about trips. But how was Bonaire? |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah, we're always talking about a trip that hasn't happened yet. Yeah, Bonaire was great. You know, one great thing about that place is it's extremely predictable in terms of kind of weather and the experience just based on the fact we've been there a few times and the weather's reliably good. But it was good. It was busy. We had six dive days and brought along five dive watches to kind of photograph and dive with. Three kind of officially for Hodinkee Reviews that'll be coming out in the next few months. And then Gishani wore the docks of Poseidon for most of the week. And I had the Sertina that I saw at Baselworld just to kind of try out. So that was fun. We hooked up with a guy from VIP Diving. He's actually the owner. His name is Bas Neu. And I had met him over the ether last year because he's kind of a watch nut. And he had seen an article that I did on Hodinkee about diving in Bonaire. And we met up and chatted watches last November. And so this time we arranged to go out on a boat dive with with him and one of his dive guides and charted a boat and went over to the small island that's unoccupied. It's just across from Bonaire itself. It's called Klein Bonaire, which means small Bonaire. And we did a couple of boat dives, which was a nice experience. It was different. The reef is a little more untouched and a little bit wilder, little steeper walls and the coral is a little more lush. So it was, it was fun, you know, after six trips to Bonaire, always doing the same kind of shore diving sites, it was fun to, to kind of get out on a boat and try something new. So that was fun. I'll certainly point to those articles, those watch reviews as they come out in the coming months. We'll mention it on the show. But, uh, you know, if you were following me on Instagram at all last week, you probably saw a lot of photos of iguanas and old Jeeps and dive watches and that sort of thing. Perfect. Yeah, it was good. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I'm glad it was a good trip. I, uh, I was in, uh, roughly, I mean, I think we left around the same time I was in Italy for a few days. I spoke about it briefly on the last episode to, uh, to cover the kind of press launch for the Lamborghini Urus SUV. Yeah. And, uh, that was great, really fast trip. I guess it was two, we were there for two nights, but I think I, like I left at about 3am the second night. So we just kind of stayed up and saw a little bit of Rome. I guess I did maybe six laps. of the Urus on Vallelunga's track. Yeah. And then, you know, like in a lead follow scenario, it wasn't just open lapping. Right. I mean, the thing's real fast. I'm sure. If you've ever been in something like a Cayenne Turbo, I would, you know, it's faster than that. It's louder than that. It's a little bit more wild than that. Yeah. And that's a very high bar for an SUV. Yeah. And I can fit in the back with somebody sitting in front of me. Oh, like the back seats are designed for someone up to six three. Oh, wow. So I thought that was like probably not going to be the case. And then I asked another writer to sit in the front and actually adjust the seat to where he would be. And I sat in the back and there was enough room. So that's pretty surprising because it has quite a sloping roofline. Yeah, that's on those. So lots of space, a good trunk, all that kind of thing. I drove maybe for about an hour. the roads kind of around Vallelunga on even the 23 inch wheels, and it was still quite comfortable. And it has like a ton of settings, right? So you can go from comfort to sport, to race, to snow, gravel, sand, all these other settings. But as you go from like, if you're in comfort, it's pretty quiet and like docile and it doesn't like leap forward if you get on the gas, that kind of thing. But if you're in sport or race, that exhaust is kind of always going. And it just takes off. I mean, it's very like, it's 650 horsepower, it's 628 foot pounds of torque. Wow. And, uh, it's a, you know, it's a twin turbo V8 that they share the block from the Cayenne and then the turbos, the heads, intakes, all those things are bespoke to the Urus's use. And it's just an incredible, the torque delivery down low is really good. So it, you don't really notice how heavy the vehicle is. And then I don't know, for those of you listening who care about things like brakes, the front brakes are 440 millimeters, which has to be the biggest brake I've ever seen. And on the track, you'd have no idea you were driving something that weighed nearly 4,900 pounds because it would break so hard. Wow. So I had a really interesting time with it. And Lamborghini, it's literally a new market that they're pushing for. So I didn't realize the percentage was this high, but they're saying that they're expecting like nearly 70% of Urus buyers to be brand new to Lamborghini. And at a $200,000 premium for a car like this, before you start checking boxes, it will theoretically double the brand's output. They made something like 38 or 3,900 cars last year, and they're expecting to make that many Urus. Now, I mean, they're currently backordered for two years. Oh, wow. So they're not really in a lot of struggle. Uh, I think that the, while the market who wants the fast SUV might not be the same person who wants the fast supercar, there's, it seems to be both markets. So I had a blast driving it. It's definitely the kind of thing that I think would be really interesting. They make a version that's on more tire. So like, I think 20s or 21s. Yeah. And it's, it's a, it's like your, you know, cause Pirelli has made like nine or seven different bespoke tires for the Urus. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | So you have various options, depending on where you live and the snow and that kind of thing. I think it would be an interesting car to, to kind of experience at like a base level that like whatever you get for 200 grand on a softer tire as like an actual everyday vehicle. Right. But I mean, all of them have that engine and, uh, and the, and the, the, you know, the trick suspension and, and all the fancy differential and, uh, you know, all the ride balancing and all that kind of thing. So. So we had the track time. We had some time to kind of drive these small Italian B roads around the track. And then we had two laps. So like maybe three minutes on this dirt course they had set up. How was that? Uh, it was good. I mean, it would have taken me 20 laps to even know where I was going. Oh yeah. But they gave you two laps and then they had one of their like chief instructors drive a lap to show you how fast you could have gone if you knew what you were doing. Yeah. So it was fine. I mean, I think if you, if you'd had, if I'd like, again, if I, if you had way more laps, it either would have resulted in Yeah, you drive a lot faster or you'd have an off. I mean, you just leave the track at some point. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, so it's kind of like a rally course and you're throwing up dirt and sliding and, and, you know, getting some sideways stuff in and all that's great. And Rome was lovely. And, uh, and yeah, it seems like a while ago, it was like a, maybe a week and a half ago, not quite, not quite a week and a half ago. And then, uh, just after this weekend. So again, by the time anyone's listening to this, I will have been home for a few days, but I go to, uh, Austria. to drive the new Bentley Continental GT. So another show from now, I'll have some information on that. I mean, I don't know. It's not going to be bad information, like that's going to be a dream. Yeah. A dream kind of experience. I love that car, but that's the next one on the list for me. What's next for you? You're back more diving, right? |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah. I've got, what am I, nine or 10 days at home and then I leave next Tuesday. So yeah, a week before this episode even airs. Now I'm off to, uh, Revia Higedo, which is, uh, an archipelago of islands in the Eastern Pacific, um, that you actually visited last year on as part of your Clipperton expedition. And, um, this is with, uh, with Blancpain. It's a, a nine day trip that originates in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, and it's on a, uh, liveaboard boat. So a large boat called the Nautilus Undersea, which happens to be the same boat you were on. Uh, I was invited by, um, by Blancpain's CEO Mark Hayek, who if people don't know, he's a fairly avid diver. He's actually the guy who was kind of behind the design of that wacky X Fathoms dive watch that they have. And you know, over his tenure at the company, he's done a lot of kind of crazy diving with free divers and with kind of world renowned divers and kind of really pushed the 50 Fathoms side of the business, which which I've enjoyed observing. Um, it's nice to see, you know, someone at the top level of, of these brands that are making dive watches actually get in the water. So it'll be, it'll be fun to meet him and dive with him. But I'm really excited because, uh, another guy who's going to be on the trip is Laurent Ballesta, who is a French underwater photographer who, um, if you happen to pick up the latest, uh, issue of national geographic, there is an article by him with some just spectacular photos of this, uh, shark feeding frenzy that he was a part of in Fakarava in the French South Pacific last year. And it's been featured a few times. We talked about it I think last year when we were doing a final notes about the Gumbessa expedition that these guys were on. Right. And they had done a series of video logs and I think we linked to those. But I think he's up there with some of the best underwater photographers that I've seen their work. So he's going to be on the trip with a couple of his team members. And it's just going to be a thrill to kind of observe him working and see the gear that he brings. And I have a book that Blancpain gave me at Baselworld that has all of his photography in it. And I'll talk about that a little later in the final notes. But it should be really exciting. So it's a nine-day trip. We'll be doing four dives a day on the various sort of islands and rocks of the archipelago there. Um, where it's kind of prime season for, for mantas and schooling sharks and, um, all manner of marine life. So, uh, I'll be shooting a lot of photos and video and, and, you know, just, uh, just soaking it all in. So I'm, I'm pretty excited that the trip actually finishes back in Mexico, of course. And, and Blancpain is hosting an event in Punta Mita, which is on the Pacific coast. They're doing one of their ocean commitment events, um, that you're going to, um, I'll be at that one, but, uh, I'll be, um, disembarking at Cabo San Lucas again and then flying home. So I'm actually skipping the event to fly back home after the dive trip. But yeah, should be plenty to report in our next episode. I'll be back on the 17th. So I'm leaving on the 9th. So it's a long trip. It's off the grid. And yeah, so very, very exciting. |
| Jason Heaton | I think you're going to love it. I had, I had a great time on the boat and obviously everyone who's listening and listened through the, the Clipperton episodes, you know, knows that, but, you know, we had a few days diving in Socorro, which is one of the four islands in the Riviera Gallegos and, you know, just incredible diving. The mantas are, that's an experience that like you can't, I can't really capture in words. Like every time I think about it, I smile. Like it's, it was a really fun thing. Lots of sharks, lots of interesting fish. You get these Mexican hawkfish that have like exposed teeth and they're kind of, they kind of come at you a bit. Yeah. That one's not, not always as much fun, but there always seemed to be a couple following you. They didn't, they seemed kind of territorial. Yeah. And, uh, and then hopefully you get to dive the boiler, which is a pretty amazing dive site. And then I think you're also going to get to Roca Pardita, which is, you know, on the far side of the chain from the mainland. Yeah. If you think of it in it's further West. Yeah. Uh, so we didn't go that far, you know, we had, Uh, Socorro is where you check in with the Navy. So we went to Socorro and dove around Socorro and then we dove on, uh, one of the other islands, which, uh, which I'm blanking on the name of currently. Uh, just all of it was really, really fun. Uh, really accessible, great visibility, all that kind of thing. And, you know, you get some random stuff. We saw some big, uh, uh, yellowtail and we saw some huge dolphins, these big, like steroidy looking dolphins came through very quickly. And then just lots of mantas, lots of white tips. Uh, you know, tons, tons of the, like the silkies and the, um, silver tips and, you know, lots of great sharks. And then obviously there's, there's a few scenarios there where you can see hammerheads. |
| Unknown | Oh, cool. |
| Jason Heaton | Uh, the right, right time of the year. So I think you should be at the same time of the year. And I didn't see any, but a couple other people on the trip, uh, at the Canyon is what the dive site is called. Saw some hammerheads. So, oh, nice, but that one's deep and not the most interesting topographically. It's one of the harder dives we did, but, uh, I think you'd enjoy it nonetheless. |
| Jason Stacey | It's interesting timing because I just received in the mail yesterday the book of photography that your folks, Julie and Michelle from the Clipperton expedition put together. So that just came in the mail yesterday. There's a great photo of you in there. Actually, two photos that I saw. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I got lucky. I got in there a couple times. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah, and so it was this weird sort of timing because we've been talking about You know, we've talked about Clipperton off and on over the past year, and then this trip is coming up where you've been, and then the book arrived, and then I got National Geographic in the mail, and here's this article by Ballesta, so it's kind of got me really nicely primed for this experience. Nice confluence. Yeah, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I like it. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And yeah, so on the topic of photography and books and things like that, one thing, I was tempted just to put this in show notes, but I feel like we don't typically put like several hundred dollar items and show notes. So I'll put it here. I bought this new lens for my Sony and anyone who follows me on Instagram will have seen the lens and some of the photos I've taken with it, but it's this Korean lens. It's called a, there's two brands that make it. So it's just whatever you can find that they're the same lens. From what I can tell, it's either Sam Yang or Rokinon. Obviously this will be in the show notes. It's a 12 millimeter mirrorless lens, plastic. Uh, so it's a small, like it's an e-mount, you go directly to the Sony, you don't need an adapter. And it, uh, maximum aperture is F2. And it's, uh, it's absolutely fantastic. Like I just, like, I can't, I can't tell you the last time I enjoyed not only a piece of camera gear that, I mean, Canadian, I paid $350 for it. And, uh, it's, uh, it's even less, uh, you know, it's $280 if you just wanted to buy it directly from B&H for the same thing. That's again, for the Sony e-mount. So any of the Sony e-mounts, cameras would run this, they also make it in several other mounts. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | So if you have a mirrorless camera, or I think it also functions on I'd like I think they make Canon and Nikon mounts for it as well. 12 millimeter is is 18 millimeter on the Sony platform. And being f2 and an ultra wide, you pretty much just shoot at infinity. |
| Unknown | Oh, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | So like, it doesn't matter that the lens has no autofocus. It's a manual lens only it's kind of like buying a vintage lens, but it's brand new. Yeah, lenses super popular with people who do architecture and astral photography, because it's a it's a very straight and true lens with very sharp at the edges. And I've been walking around Vancouver, you know, just kind of taking random shots with it. And I'm absolutely in love with it. It's super fun to shoot that wide. It looks I think it looks great. And then because it's an f2 and the minimum focusing distance is only like, it's like it's I think it's 10 inches. |
| Unknown | Oh, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And so you can you can do these weirdly close. Sorry, it's 7.9 inches. You can do these weirdly close kind of wide macros. Oh, yeah. So I mean, I have a little collection called like wide eye on Instagram. You know, you can make those collections of stuff that you've put in stories. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | So if anyone wants to see photos that came kind of specifically from that lens, and examples of the range, which is what's remarkable, you know, is that you can take a photo of something that's quite close and it's super sharp. And you're just using focus peaking on the Sony where as things are in focus, they go kind of bright red on the screen. So it's really easy to shoot, but most of the time you're just shooting at infinity. So it makes no difference. Like if I'm taking a picture of a mountain or buildings or something, it's just infinity. Like anything that's more than 10 feet away from you is in focus. And it's, uh, it's really fun. And you know, it's super fast, so you can shoot kind of in low light and at night and not with crazy ISOs. And, uh, this is a real sweet spot for me in photography because these cameras make it so easy to shoot with a, uh, manual lens. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | That there's no real loss scenario for something like, I don't know that I would want to go manual if I was shooting portraits or weddings or something like that, where there's a lot on the line. But for, you know, for things that you can just basically fire at infinity or use the focus peaking to take your time with the photo. |
| Unknown | Right. |
| Jason Heaton | It's great. It's light, it's plasticky, and I think it's going to be really good for travel. And it's one of these things where, like, if you lost it or broke it, it's like the other lens I use for my Sony is that Zeiss lens, which is a couple thousand dollars to replace. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah, it sounds like a good walking around kind of street photography lens. The camera itself is light, so, you know, you're not not carrying a bunch of stuff around. And as you mentioned last time, the paracord strap probably suits this whole setup really well. |
| Jason Heaton | Piece of cake. And the only thing it's not going to work out really well for is people. Wide angle lenses typically make people look pretty strange. Yeah. Sometimes you can put them right in the center of the frame and then crop it, but it doesn't do like facial proportions that well. Your friends won't like the photos you take of them. Oh yeah. Get them 50 feet back and kind of pointing at a mountain or something like that. That's probably your best bet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, uh, anything else new for you? No, I mean, there will be next time, but, uh, no, as of now, I'm just... Did you see this, uh, the Hallios Roaldorf Limited Edition? |
| Jason Stacey | Oh, it looks so cool. It looks really good. |
| Jason Heaton | Isn't it neat? |
| Jason Stacey | Have you seen it in person? |
| Jason Heaton | I haven't, so there's no dials that exist yet. Otherwise, I would have already shot it and written it. Yeah. Basically, what they've done here is they've made a custom three-dial version of the C4, so it's the same C4 case that everybody knows. |
| Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| Jason Heaton | That isn't changed, but, um, Hallios, obviously a Vancouver-based brand, and Rohldorf, a Vancouver-based brand, both of which we've had on the show. They designed together these really beautiful dials. So it's a new dial design with a 3, 6, and 9 marker. And two of the versions have cream kind of center circular elements. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | So it looks very different from a C4, but it's still at the same time very much a C4. It's only a fixed bezel option. You can get the watch in steel or DLC, and then there's either a green black dial, a green cream dial, or a charcoal cream dial, all of which look incredible. You know, I'm really excited to see them in person, but I think that they nailed that super dark, not overly saturated green, at least in the renders that they have so far. Pricing is just shy of $1,000, so it's a little bit more than a normal C4, but they're also even more limited. So the other cool thing is, you know, it's going via a pre-order. It's 50% down is what they're required. And then you're getting a watch that not only has a different movement than your standard C4, if this uses an ETA 2892A2. Good movement. Yeah. So it's arguably ETA's best three-hand movement. And then on top of that, the watch is actually assembled in Vancouver by Rolldorf. I think that's really neat. Yeah, I agree. So I mean, it's very special. You're looking at something, I guess the basic price for a steel case with any dial is $9.85 USD. And then if you want to go with the DLC case, you're looking at $10.35. So there is a premium over the standard C4, which is more in the range of say $700 to $750. But for that premium, you're getting an entirely different dial design, the optional DLC case, the Vancouver assembly, and the, I would say, considerable upgrade in movement. Yeah. I think these look really good. It's one that as soon as soon as they have one to see, I'll be attempting to shoot it and then get some coverage, hopefully for Hoding Key on that. You know, obviously that that depends on on when the watch is available. And if they all preorder immediately, then maybe there's not really any use. I don't know. You know how these things are. Right. And then they're also offering either a black leather strap or the Erica's original black ops in either a brushed or a DLC finish. So there's some cool options there. I hope that anyone who's interested is able to get in on the pre-order and that there's maybe still a few left by the time this episode goes up. Probably, you know, the better part of a week, week and a bit before or after the pre-order. |
| Jason Stacey | Wow. Yeah. And I can't wait to see these start to trickle out into the world and get onto Instagram real world photos. The renders look so amazing. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | They have a more classic vibe and it's one that's kind of been disconnected from the Seaforth's kind of original diver layout. It's a little bit field watch. It has like a little bit of like a British military like feel to it. I think they look great. I think that the combination of the DLC with the cream and the green, that might be the winner. It's hard to say. |
| Jason Stacey | That sort of dual color dial configuration is something that I would love to see more brands do. I just think There just isn't a lot of that around and it reminds me a little bit, the style of the watch is completely different, but I don't know if you're familiar with, I think they call it, I think Tudor made one back in the 50s or something, it was called, they called it, they nicknamed it the Tuxedo. It was like black on the outside and white, you know, sphere in the middle. I've seen a couple of, like an Excelsior Park Chronograph with that sort of black outer ring with the white in the middle. Oh yeah, sure, sure. just it's a neat look that you just don't see much of so it's it's it's really cool to see Helios doing. |
| Jason Heaton | It makes the uh markers really punchy. Yeah. I'm looking at pictures of these of a tuxedo dial tutor. Yeah. And uh that's cool and it looks like they made Datejust like a 116234 tuxedo dial. Yeah. Neat. Yeah. Well I mean good good on them for that. I think it's uh I you know I'm I live in Vancouver. I love this city. Big Helios fan. Big Roldorf fan. They've both been on the show. I I just like to see that they've gotten together and they've made something that I don't have to be like Well, they made it. Yeah. You know, like I think it looks good. I think they did well with the design. And I think it's hard to iterate upon a successful design like the Seaforth. Obviously, tons of people like the way the Seaforth looks. Yeah. And I think this is both different and still very good. So kudos to them on that. And I hope it's an absolute smash hit for them. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah. Great. Well, maybe we should jump into the main topic. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. So today's main topic is inspired by a question we got from a listener named Camille in Amsterdam. Camille, thanks very much for your question. And Camille gave us a fairly long question. But if we boil it down, he's asking, according to which rules, if any, have your collection of watches developed over the years? And did you kind of chase specific aspects, color, case size, brand, style of watch? Or did you just kind of follow whims and your taste at the time and that sort of thing? He's kind of trying to develop the idea of like, is there a logical pattern in a collection? Or is it more just the output or the proof of some insane kind of meandering, following your bliss sort of thing through watches. And I think it's an interesting question. And, you know, we've spoken about collecting before on the show, but I think this is a good way to kind of readdress that. And I think it is kind of a changing kind of living thing for people, what they like, what they're into, you know, maybe as they learn or develop taste, obviously things are going to change. So, Jason, Where would you say you started in watches? How would you characterize collecting when you were first getting into it? |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah, I mean, I guess when I got into watches, I've always kind of resisted being called a collector. I don't, I've never had a kind of a strategy or intent to own more than, well, realistically, I never had the intent to even own more than one watch. It's just that, as many people can relate to, you know, you buy one that you like, and then as you kind of dig deeper into the hobby, and learn more about watches. You see others that are similar and then they sort of branch out and you see something else and you sort of accumulate. But I've never had sort of a strategy to kind of amass a collection. I've never had a an idea to have a theme. And I think you know the word though I you could say I have a collection in kind of the strictest sense of the word collection. The word collecting sort of feels very static almost like you're collecting dead butterflies or something. And I just kind of tend to keep accumulating a small collection of watches that I just like to wear and use. Of course, when I first got into it, back in the forum days when I first discovered watches, as so many of us do, I used to just buy and flip and trade and sell fairly often. I would say over the years, if there's been one constant, it's been a pretty heavy focus on dive watches. I've never really kind of gravitated or aspired to own anything like, you know, even like a Datejust or a Patek or a Vacheron or anything like that. It's always been kind of a, kind of more on the affordable end of the spectrum dive watches. So what about you? I think you probably started in a similar way, right? With kind of dive watches and forums and |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, for sure. I mean, when I first got into it, it was, it was a lot about forums and whatever other people were kind of into on forums is what I bought. And over time, you know, I got kind of just a little bit deeper, maybe in my first year or so of being kind of on the internet side of watch enthusiasm. You've, I found poor man's watch forum and that led to, you know, maybe a half a dozen Orients, you know, and that led to an SKX007 and a Black Monster. And then I think my kind of taste for reasonable sized divers was locked in. And then I just started to kind of iterate off of that. So, you know, whether it was the birth of some of these micro brands, I had, you know, very early Ocean 7 with the LM2, early Armitas, early all sorts of stuff. And then I think it takes, I think if you're in the scenario where you're kind of buying and selling and buying and selling, you accept the fact that you're going to get things wrong. so if you buy a watch that's 47 millimeters but you've never had it before you throw it on it feels okay for a couple days or it's new for a couple days and then you realize like i really wish it was more like the size of an skx yeah then that's time to flip it and i had a bathys that i really loved i had you know it was these early watches that kind of develop your general taste right and then it then it just takes time and effort of like Either you look at something in an image and you know you're not nuts about it, or a friend has one so then you know you're not nuts about it, or you buy one and then you know you're not nuts about it. But I think in many ways it's like there's weird kind of swirling checklists of like, I've never had that, I've never had that, oh that looks interesting, I like the way that looks, the design of that is cool, like for whatever reason I really like the design of the Mondain stuff, but I've never owned one. for whatever reason, I've just never pulled the trigger. I think I like the way they look, but I think it's more of an academic appreciation than it is that I think it would suit my wrist. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah, that's how I feel about, and we've talked about it before, the Max Bill watches of Junghans. It's, you know, love the look. I've always thought one day I'll have one and I probably won't. I mean, I just, just realistically, I probably won't have one and, um, that's okay. Um, would you say that, um, I'm guessing you're like me and haven't kind of gone into collecting with the objective of amassing a themed collection or certain value to them or anything like that, but have you been able to kind of over the years hone, if you ever had some sort of guiding principles about the watches that you have, is there sort of an overriding theme to them? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I mean, for me, I think a lot of my type of collecting, and it would be the same way that I would collect almost anything is I like to have examples of things that I like. So I adore the Rolex Explorer and Explorer II line and I have one and that's enough. I understand and I really like the obsession of the guys where they have one of every reference and that's their thing is like Explorers or just Subs or whatever. But for the most part, I want an example of it. I love GMT watches. I love world time watches. You know, at a strong point, it really comes down to how the watch wears. And I think that's a two-sided thing. It's the shape and size of the watch. Yeah. And it's how it makes you feel. So one of those things you can know from a piece of paper, like I think my preference these days is really things not much over 41 millimeters. And I really find there's a certain charm around 38. that I like quite a bit. And that could just be that I've, I've owned mostly new watches. So vintage watches are novel. Yeah. I want to have a skin diver. I like having a pilot's watch. I like having like, you know, something like a Doc said, like I'm wearing the 50th SR now, which is 42 and a half millimeters. Yeah. But because it's kind of a very squared case shape. Yeah. Uh, not that long lug to lug, not unlike the SRP 777, which should be way too big at 44. Mm. that watch wears beautifully because it's not that much longer than 44 in a lug to lug sense, right? Yeah. So once you kind of have an idea of like, well, that will be the right size for my wrist, then it's a question of like, does it appeal at that kind of intangible emotional level? And like, there's not a really a way to explain this to someone who doesn't have this gene or this bad wiring, where we're like a watch or a car or a beautiful camera or something like that can actually have an effect on your mood, on your perspective for that moment. I think that people listening to TGN would do get that. So I don't think I feel like I'm not in a position where I necessarily have to feel bad or hide that or whatever. It is what it is. People love things sometimes and that comes down to watches as well. And I think a lot of times it's about developing a sense of what watches kind of fit that appeal or will offer that appeal to you, which is I think where it takes a lot of time. And also that, I think that position changes for people over time. |
| Jason Stacey | Oh, for sure. I think, you know, I get a lot of questions about, and I think you do too, from people that ask, what do you think of this watch? Or what's your personal opinion? Or do you recommend the Pelagos or the Black Bay or whatever it might be? And my kind of canned response that I've gotten used to responding with, and I don't want to sound, you know, sort of glib or that I'm dismissing anybody, it really, and throughout my kind of collecting quote unquote career, it's, it really does come down to what you like to look at on your wrist. And I have, I have realized that unless you're someone who's in it for investment reasons or, you know, you want, like you mentioned, get all the iterations of the Explorer or something, that's really what it comes down to. If you're buying watches to wear, which is what I do. And I think if there's kind of a theme that I've sort of had consistently through the past, you know, 10 years or so, it's been, watches with visual interest. I like watches that have a bit of quirk to them. I know you do too, but you know, watches that have an interesting use of color or, um, case details like, like Bremont. I think, you know, the thing I like about a Bremont is you look at it from any angle and they do something interesting with the texture on the dial of the supermarine or the, that triptych case or the position of the crown. or the hand shape, or a Doxa, for instance. I mean, there's just so much to look at with these watches. You have this Nodico bezel, you have the dwarf hour hand and this big orange minute hand on some of them, and the Seaforth, you know, I've got the blue dial Seaforth, which, again, great color. It's interesting when you look at your wrist, and that's not to say I don't have my share of kind of black and white, sort of military-inspired, you know, Submariner and a Speedmaster, It's funny when I wear those, I get the sense that they're classics and I appreciate them for what they are, but I tend to not wear them for any length of time. Like I do, say a Doxa, which is simply because I just like to look at these watches on my wrist. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. It's one of these things where, you know, we do the show long enough, people will actually see our tastes change. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I actually didn't know concretely what, how much I would like a Doxa until I owned one. And now I don't take it off. I mean, like I have, I have, a small collection, a small and relatively modest collection. It's not an investment collection. Uh, nothing I own could be considered investment. Like even I got my EXP two for very cheap and immediately like within weeks was on top of Baker with it on the outside of my sleeve. Like I, I mean like what a watch like that you buy for a few, let's say you buy it for a few thousand dollars and then a couple of years later it's worth a few more thousand dollars. I don't care. Yeah. Like it, like, I don't mean to sound as glib as this sounds, but it's not that hard to come up with a few grand. Right. I could sell that same watch and have that money. Like if that was the scenario. Yeah. Uh, so I just, like, I don't, I don't really, uh, I don't have enough skin in the game financially to see any big benefits. Yeah. It's like I dabbled in cryptocurrency, but only, you know, hundreds of dollars. So even if things went kind of nuts, I'll have a few thousand dollars. Like, yeah. It's not a game-changing scenario. Like in many ways, not always, but in many ways, if you want to invest in something like watches or cars or whatever, you have to have a fair amount in the game to be able to see a big return when things go your way. Yeah. And that's just not at all my interest in watches. And I mean, as far as your taste goes, what are you... So you mentioned the Doxa, but what do you actually wear these days that you have? |
| Jason Stacey | of your collection? I wear Doxas a lot. I mean, probably Doxas and Braemonts and then my Submariner that I got for my 40th birthday, just the no-date Sub. I wear that in kind of regular rotation, but kind of day in and day out it tends to be Doxas a lot lately. I'm kind of in this dive mode, you know, the early part of this year. But the MB2 got a lot of wrist time over the winter. You know, I talked about in the last show I recently acquired that vintage Teagraph, and so now I have two of those. That is such an incredibly satisfying watch to wear. And I'm not really a kind of your stereotypical sort of vintage watch collector. I sort of have happened upon a few vintage watches and, and they were good examples at good prices. And, and I just like the story of the Teagraph that I recently got. And I like that watch. It just, to me, it represents something almost intangible, um, from that era. I think it kind of represents the late sixties diving adventure, quirky, big and and kind of bold and uh and so i do enjoy wearing uh the t graph a fair amount although i've got it in for service now but um so yeah it's it's it's you know what it has come down to too and i you and i've talked about it you touched on it a little earlier was the this idea of uh comfort and size and and the docks is especially these thin case 50th anniversary size are just i just don't want to take it off it's the same reason what It's the same reason why when I wear my Supermarine 2000, which I don't do as often because it's a big heavy watch, I kind of get this sigh of relief when I put on something smaller, like the Submariner or something. They just feel so good. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, comfort's a big play. And I never would have predicted that I would like this Doxa, the Sea Rambler that I've got this much, but the case is a huge part of that. Yeah. It works on any strap. It's always comfortable. I have a seven inch wrist. Yours is a little bit bigger than that. They just wear really well and they have a charm that's not like any other watch. It's a very distinctive, unique sort of appeal. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And they are, you know, there's always, in everything in life, watches or anything, food, it doesn't matter. There's always some intrinsic value to weird or different than the last thing you had or wore or whatever, just a change, right? Yeah. Like I may own, and this is a point of fact, I may own the same t-shirt like 20 times, but it's in 20 different colors. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right. And don't get me wrong, I like the black and the white t-shirt just fine, but I also like the ones that are like kind of a strange shade of blue that doesn't really seem to match anything. Like that's, it's just the way that I'm wired. And I think it's the way that a lot of, like, I think most people are wired, you know, it's, it's, it's that, uh, Francis Bacon's, there is no beauty that hath not some strangeness to its proportion. And I think that can be applied to nature that can be applied to cars and watches and people. And, and I think it can be applied to the appeal of, of pretty much anything. There's always an intangible element that could just be that you were surprised by it. That's what I like a lot about movies is when I get surprised by them. Yeah. And it, I'm, you know, compulsively I rewatch movies and I still like the moments where I remember being surprised. Right. Uh, not like a jump scare, like I don't like scary movies, but when they do something that I wouldn't have been able to conceive of as I was planning this scene in my mind. Yeah. Whether it's a turn or a line or some tension that pays off, whatever. I love that kind of stuff, and I think there's an element of that that can be kind of drawn through a lot of different things. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah, yeah. One thing I've noticed is for a while you had that Zinn 144 chronograph, but you don't currently own a chronograph, do you? |
| Jason Heaton | Just the Aerospace, which doesn't necessarily count. I mean, like I was saying, I have, I think, a nicely varied small collection of watches, and I'm pretty much only wearing three of them ever. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Uh, I love my eXp too. It's essentially a perfect watch. Uh, could easily be a one watch scenario for me if I, you know, wasn't, uh, essentially working in the watch industry at some level. Yeah. And, uh, I adore this Doxa. It's not going anywhere. It will definitely cause me to buy more Doxas, especially anything with this thin case. I'd love to get a thin case, uh, vintage. Yeah. At some point. Yeah. And then the Seaforth, which is another example of, it's just the right size. That's just the right comfort. And it's a little bit strange. Yeah. Right. It works on a ton of different straps. All of these watches work on NATOs. They all work on a leather strap. They all work on like a mesh bracelet. So whatever I'm kind of feeling. Right. And, you know, like I went for a walk yesterday to a big park in Vancouver and I walked for most of the day and I was wearing the Doxa and I took a picture of it. It was this beautiful sunny day. And it's like, it's like summer for your wrist. It's so true. There's something like so warm and like appealing and old world and simple. And it's not even remotely technologically advanced. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just good. It's hard to capture kind of why sometimes these things have that appeal, but I'm doing my best. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah. You know, and sometimes somebody will say, you know, so what's next? What's on your list? What do you want to get? What's your grail? Yeah, it's a good place to go. I used to have that. I used to have watches that I aspired to own or a grail watch. I can't say that I've really wanted I mean, it sounds terrible, but that I've really wanted a watch in quite a while now, like that I'm actually actively seeking or saving for or hunting for, um, you know, they're, they're kind of the watches that, uh, I've got a handful of keepers and then I've got some that kind of, uh, satisfy a whim and then they move on. I either sell or trade or gift them to somebody and, and, uh, and it just feels right. And, um, but I can't say that there's anything out there that I'm really, you know, questing for. I guess my chronograph question for you was, you know, I've, I've seen you, you know, I think you borrowed one of your friends, uh, vintage Speedmasters in the past. And, um, you know, we've, we've talked about, uh, you know, various, uh, you know, old Breitlings or, you know, things like this. And I guess my, my chronograph question I was kind of leading to was, is there something like a Speedmaster or something that you feel like you want to own one day for, for any given reason? |
| Jason Heaton | I would definitely buy a racing dial Speedmaster, but they're too expensive now. Yeah. I mean, I, I balked at them when they were $4,000. Yeah. And that was a mistake. Um, you know, like so many of us have made, uh, but the, you know, the, the 2004 Japan LE, which is a modern 3570, uh, but with the kind of mark two style race dial. Yeah. It's a pretty cool watch. Definitely my favorite Speedmaster. Uh, and then there's some even stranger, rare, far more expensive ones. Phillips has a really fantastic, uh, 1968 with a prototype race dial. It will have sold two days before this episode goes up, you know, assuming it makes whatever reserve it might have. Yeah. But it's part of their Geneva auction. So I'll throw the link in the show notes so that you can at least see what it went for. Probably. I think they said the estimate was somewhere around 20,000 Swiss francs, but it has like, it's a matte black dial step dial. And it has a, uh, it has red, actual red accents, not the maroon orange, the red and then red, uh, hour and minute hand. Jeez. So it looks incredible. So something like that, I would be a hundred percent on board to have and own and to cherish, but I'm not spending that kind of money on a watch. I got other things I like to spend my money on. And I don't think these watches are necessarily going anywhere. I think it's an ebb and a flow scenario. So maybe someday I'll be able to have that race style. But for now, I like a chronograph academically, but I don't actually use them. I loved that Zen. Yeah. And then I realized I had like three other GMTs that I was wearing more commonly or not necessarily GMTs, but watches that could do two time zones. Yeah. And, uh, you know, with that one being, uh, uh, an independent 24 hour hand and non-jumping local, it's a little bit of a compromised feature set for someone who travels as much as I do versus something like an Explorer 2 or even just a 12 hour bezel again, where you're, you're able to change it without really changing the timing of the watch. Yeah. So yeah, that one went and the owner still, you know, the guy who sold it to still has it. And we have a deal where if he decides he doesn't want it anymore, I can buy it back before he lists it. So we'll see how that goes. Maybe I'll end up with that 144 again. It was a, that's a very cool watch. You just, you can't keep them all. Right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm, even now I have several in my collection that if it wasn't for the work of selling them, I would sell them. Yeah. Selling's a pain. It's a huge pain. And I love selling to friends. because then I can take a little bit less money and I know that the watch goes somewhere that's good and all these sorts of things and you don't have to worry about like a bunch of shipping issues, taking photos, putting it on watch you see, getting crazy low balls, all these things like the selling aspect is not fun. No. And it's something that I'll probably only do under duress moving forward because I probably in the first few years of this hobby bought and sold well over a hundred watches. Yeah. Which I know like I've met now lots of other enthusiasts who not only do that but then have continued that process for years. They've been through a thousand watches in six or seven years or something like that. And kudos, I think that's amazing. I think that their understanding of the market is so strong at a product level that I think that's fantastic, but it's also a part-time job. Right, it is. And my life already has several part-time jobs, so it's probably not time to accept another. When I was less busy, I was buying and selling and spending a lot more time on the sales forums and things like that. And now I don't know, like I haven't been cruising watch recon for a while. Like you, I've been very happy, if not feeling essentially spoiled by the watches that I have. You know, I'm always kind of subtly on the lookout for cheap skin divers. That's something where I could see owning like a bunch of them. Yeah. But even then, the pricing's going up. You know, people like vintage watches. People like vintage dive watches. Yeah. So it's not the same thing where there's a lot just floating around at two or three hundred bucks. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah. There was a time when I thought that if I kind of had to start all over again, I would sort of just have one modern go-to watch that I'd wear most of the time. But then if I really wanted to kind of collect something, I would focus on a theme. And I think at the time, you know, I was kind of enamored with the Twin Crown a super compressor case dive watches and just thought, you know, there, there were so many, just like there are, you know, skin divers from different brands that it would be kind of fun to have sort of a focused theme to the collection. You know, albeit, you know, maybe a little one track or a little boring in some people's minds, but it seemed like kind of a neat sort of thing where, you know, just over the years you just sort of keep your eyes open for it. And if one comes along, you pick it up, but. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Whenever I see those kinds of single mark collections. Yeah. I marvel in the sheer lunacy of that pursuit. Yeah. Like I like it. That's a different level of crazy or a different variety of crazy. Yeah. But I don't think it's for me. When I see it with cars, I don't quite get it. Like I understand with someone wanting, you know, some very wealthy person wanting all of Ferrari's flagship cars, 288 all the way through the LaFerrari. I get that. Yeah. But then you find like, you know, like even like a, like Magnus Walker, the 911 collector. Yeah. in LA who has, I think he's trying to get one of every year of an air cooled. That's a lot of really similar cars. I'm not saying that it's not the right thing to do. I mean, if you can do it, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah. But that's a special type of passion. Yeah. And, and I don't know, necessarily like I like that I like that variety of going from something as different as an EXP2 to the DOXA to, you know, my One of my other favorites is the Bremont Solo. Yeah. These are remarkably different watches. Yeah. And, uh, and I like that, but I do, I do always like, even when you see like a talking watches where it's all military watches and I'm like, ah, I get it. Like, uh, like that, that took some forethought. Yeah. Yeah. But then you, you also kind of wonder like, how many watches did you own and buy before you got into collecting military watches? Maybe this is like a more advanced evolution that you and I haven't gotten to yet. Maybe you're almost there. You're just going to become a guy that just has docs. |
| Jason Stacey | Well, I think maybe those people, maybe there's an ease to it. Maybe it's easier because... It's focused. It's very focused. And so you aren't tempted by the Max Bill. |
| Jason Heaton | You're only going on one or two dive forums or one or two military forums or something. And you're buying from the same four or five other guys who are crazy like you. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like my friend Myron who has the Hamiltons that I wrote about for Hodinkee, you know, those little Hamilton field watches. He knows, you know, you can probably set up a very focused sort of search on eBay or on the watch recon and kind of, you know, just check it every now and then. So, yeah, it's, uh, I guess there are some upsides to that. |
| Jason Heaton | Um, yeah. No matter how you cut it, though, collecting is a fairly crazy thing, like stamps to whatever people are into. Like it's, it's a weird, it's a weird, um, like side product of, of I think general humanity where you, you form this weird bond with, things that exist entirely. Like, I mean, with watches, we don't need them and they definitely don't need us. Like there's no, there's no symbiotic relationship at the product level. Right. It's just emotional. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's kind of a, it's kind of a strange and wonderful thing, but it's not, and I like that it's not something that I don't think either of us came to with any sort of a decision. Yeah. Like you said, I kind of just wanted a watch and now, however many years later you have several watches and a life built around, at some metric, watches. And I'm kind of the same way. I had a Columbia Field Watch, the battery died, and I started looking into buying another watch. And then the way life works is that was like 15 years ago or whatever, I blinked, and now we're here. A podcast on untold sums of money spent on watches that I kept for days sometimes. And, uh, and, and a living at some, at some level taken from, from the, uh, from the, the, you know, the rock and the hard place. |
| Jason Stacey | I, um, I guess another theme that, that I've come to realize about myself is that I tend to gravitate towards brands or watches, um, that have some, I don't want to say link to history, but sort of a connection that, that, that hooks me or inspires me. So for instance, you know, Doxa has been through ups and downs over the years with various company ownerships and that sort of thing. But in its essence, if you look at your wrist at this 50th anniversary piece or a Black Lung or whatever, you see this heritage, you see 1967 adventure diving, you know, these watches and the whole kind of history sort of is imbued in that watch. Whereas something like a Bremont, I have a nice connection with, you know, the owners of the company. I like their story. I like my Rolex Submariner because of all the great old National Geographic ads with Rolex and the kind of the history of the Submariner and the Explorer, you know, and Everest and all these things. It's kind of the reason why I don't tend to wear or own, at least for any length of time, a lot of the micro brands that kind of pop up that might look like something else or might be, you know, beautifully done. The exception to that might be Helios because, you know, I've met Jason and and there's kind of this personal connection and you've kind of gotten a glimpse into the You know behind the scenes and met the guy behind it so it's either there's a personal connection with the brand or kind of some attachment or Sort of this link to history which is why I you know, I like having a Speedmaster and the Submariner and The docks is yeah, there's kind of this loose theme that runs through all of them |
| Jason Heaton | I think that's kind of universal for, certainly for watches, look at how hard brands are trying to leverage their history now. Yeah. To get that same effect from people who maybe like, like, I mean, uh, someone I follow on Instagram the other day, you know, put up a story just asking, like, does anyone under 30 care who Steve McQueen was? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question. It is. And that's, if you, if you don't follow Hannah Elliott, you should follow Hannah Elliott, uh, auto writer for Bloomberg. And, uh, she does a great job and, and, I thought she had a really good point. I know who Steve McQueen is and I think he had excellent taste in cars and he was in some great movies, but I don't really care. If a watch was his, that wouldn't make me want it that much more. That's what these companies are after and that's probably why Rolex doesn't really deal in the vintage world. They don't want to compete with their own product. And you have to, at some point, there's probably some math that, you know, that's their biggest competitor. Modern Rolex's biggest competitor is... Vintage Rolex. Vintage Rolex. Yeah. Which is kind of crazy, but like to your point, people are buying, you know, your interest level is connected with these historical roots, some of which you were a part of and some of which you weren't. Yeah. Like some of what you might've experienced, like various elements of NASA or things like that. And others that you weren't, but the stories are compelling because of who you are. Yeah. And yeah, I think that little pocket of it is what's shaping a lot of the watch industry right now and what might leave a lot of the watch industry looking kind of strange in a few years. Right. When the vintage inspired thing goes away. Yeah. Or becomes less appealing or, you know, like trends change and that's a trend right now. So I don't think it's a stretch by any means to say that the trend will change and it's going to leave a lot of brands talking about their heritage and their legacy to a bunch of people who are either grown very tired of it or just don't care. Right? Yeah. Like you talked like I adore cars. I love old cars a lot. But you talk to like my younger siblings who are quite a bit younger than me, and they don't care about cars at all. And they certainly don't care about old cars. Right? Well, I've always wanted like some microwave with wheels, right? Like, like, it doesn't like Does it get me to my job? Does it get me to the concert? Does it get me home? Whatever. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've always wondered how long Omega can kind of lean on the moon landing with the Speedmaster. They do it every year. And at some point that's going to be, you know, now we're talking, you know, 50 years ago. I mean, pretty soon it's going to be 75 years ago. And, you know, I hate to say it, but, you know, most of those astronauts are dead or will have died. you know, to bring them out at events and talk about this stuff, it becomes less and less relevant, sadly, because I'm a huge fan of that stuff. But yeah, I'll be curious to see. |
| Jason Heaton | There's no way to predict that kind of thing, obviously, but I definitely think it's a lessening impact over time. Fewer people will have an emotional, like a firsthand or even a secondhand emotional connection with that happening, with that event. yeah in time and and everyone you know younger people younger buyers will have moved on to being fascinated with other things right and and that could be what celebrities wearing the watch or it could be you know some some amazing thing that we didn't really you know that you couldn't predict whether it's it's a new age in space travel or whatever yeah hopefully it's interesting things and not like what celebrities Yeah. Or what watch or, or, you know, what DJ's got a watch on or something like that. Hopefully it's, it's something a little bit more rooted with the, the history of, uh, of like watches and adventure. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, kind of to, you know, bring this to around to kind of a closing point. Um, I think I would almost consider myself a, a one watch or two watch person kind of disguised or in the body of someone who's a collector. Um, almost in spite of myself. I think I don't really like that sense of getting up in the morning and opening up a watch roll and seeing six watches to choose from. I really would love to be that person who only has one or two that you put on whether you're going hiking or going out for dinner or you're going diving and you just pick the one that works and you only have two to choose from. It's the reason I like travel and you take one watch and sometimes I'll take two but usually I just take one and it feels so good. I don't know that I'll ever get back to that point, because like you mentioned, I also hate selling watches. So I'm probably going to be stuck with the ones that I have for quite a long time. But I don't know. I think I envy the one watch person. I love that lifestyle. I love that notion. And I think you and I are alike in this. We buy watches to wear and use, and I think that's kind of that ethos of the one watch guy, is just to own it and wear it and build stories with it. |
| Jason Heaton | And like the other thing is like, I think like, like with, like with the fellow you bought the second T graph off of. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | If you were, if you were to imagine the type of person that you like using a watch, is it, is it a guy who has 70 or 80 amazing watches that are kept in a safe and he, and he wears them. I'm not saying like he doesn't wear them or whatever, and he appreciates them and he loves them, all of that. I'm not being disparaging simply because it's a person of means that loves watches. Or is it this guy that bought a Doxa when he was 17? Yeah. Dove with it, wore it, loved it. It was his. And then, and then you were able to get that. I think there's, you know, I think like it's, it's that, it's that both. And then the only space where you kind of see both is where you thread that needle with like the, uh, the Newman Daytona. Oh, right. And where that, the appeal and the value is so high, where it kind of threads, where it kind of ties in multiple elements of this, the celebrity aspect, the part that he was actually a watch fan. Yeah. Like it wasn't just that he had the one watch or that was his daily watch or whatever, but like he liked watches. So there was some enthusiasm and knowledge that went into the decision to go with that Daytona. Right. And you cross that with the fact that it's the perfect watch for collectability of Daytona and early Daytona. Yeah. And you get $15.5 million or whatever. So it's like watch collecting at any level is pretty bonkers. And it gets pretty crazy when you start to stack on, you know, imagine what an actual moon Speedmasters were. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Or the right Cousteau watch. Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, there's still a few of these kind of grail sport watches out there in the ether. Maybe they won't have the same proof that the Newman one had. Yeah. as far as achieving that sort of value because it was such a thing. And obviously it was hugely hyped by the enthusiast community and blogs and Phillips and all of that. But it's an incredible thing at any level, the sort of collecting side. So I would say that if you're in this and you're listening and you're like, these guys have just rambled for 40 minutes and didn't really provide a lot of insight, I'd say, yeah, that's probably a fair assessment. But buy what you like right now, buy what you can afford to experience. Learn, if you're just getting into this or you're comfortable with it, learn the buy and sell process. You know, get into what you see, get enough posts to be able to post on the sales forum. Start to learn the etiquette and the process and develop your tastes. If you have friends with watches, that saves you having to buy them. Right. Hang out, hang out with them, wear them. You'll understand very quickly. I think if you don't, if you do or don't like a watch, you can also, you know, develop a relationship with a salesperson at an AD where they don't mind you dropping in on your way home from work and maybe trying a couple of pieces on. That's part of the math. I don't think it's something that like, like if, if you go into an AD and the salesperson literally has no time to speak to you, then find a different AD. But I think generally speaking, part of the math of watch purchasing is you have a handful of visits where you're just kind of developing an idea of what you want. Yeah. Um, and if the store doesn't have time for that, then they're not a good store. Right. Um, so, and then beyond that, you know, if it's things that are harder to see in person, Zins, Doxes, um, Nomos, then those are scenarios where you might have to buy one. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, buy it at a price that you can sell it for or close enough to, and then, then whatever the difference is in those two numbers is the cost of, of kind of expanding your, mindshare for personal taste. |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah, and I would add that unless you're buying or collecting for investment, which is a dubious sort of ambition anyway, buy what you like to look at. You know, so much of watches is a visual sort of appeal, certainly the intangible sort of background of a brand or a specific watch and its use plays into it. But, you know, watches are By and large, pretty high quality these days. To compare one versus the other and what's better and what's not can be really splitting hairs. I always just tell people, and I just encourage people, just what do you really like to look at? What makes your heart sing when you look at your wrist and you just watch that hand go around? That's going to make you the happiest. It certainly has for me. And it took a few stumbles over the years of thinking, oh, I need to get this one and not that one. But I've moved beyond that. And I'm just happy with whatever I look at these days on my wrist. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I fully agree. You got to buy what you like, what works for you. And you have to accept that occasionally you'll buy something that doesn't match. Yeah. And sell it or give it to a friend or whatever your scenario is and move on. Yep. Just watches. Yeah. How about some final notes? Yeah, perfect. All right, I'll go first. So I've got two car ones. Both car stories, both, in my opinion, pretty compelling and really kind of bonkers cars. The first one is a car that you would know if you're pretty crazy deep into Porsche, but this is the story of a guy who bought a one of six zero mile street legal 962CR, which is a conversion that was done by Choupin from a 962 Le Mans car to a road car. So the guy who bought it is a guy named Matthew Ivanhoe, who runs an exotic and high-end classic dealership called The Cultivated Collector. He's on Instagram. It's a great follow. They've had some really fantastic cars kind of come through that one. If I remember correctly, it was a DB4 or a DB5. That was pretty amazing. I mean, nothing holds a candle to this thing. Hyper rare, you know, they made almost none. This one was never actually driven. Um, and there's nothing like this car. I mean, six of them were made and, you know, about 25, something like 25 years old. And it's a carbon monocoque body. And it was, uh, made by, so that the Chupan part is a Porsche racing driver named Vern Chupan. And, you know, originally they, they claimed these things were like in the range of one and a half to $2 million, somewhere in there. And it's just like to have something that was, um, this rare and undriven. It kind of makes me sad. Yeah. Cause like, imagine, imagine what it is to drive this thing. But also now to know that it's kind of in the hands of someone who will take it to car shows and kids can see it. And maybe I'll get to see it at like the quail or something like that also makes me very happy. Cause otherwise, you know, of course I'll link the story from the drive, uh, kind of gives a little bit of background on the vehicle and how, who it bounced around between. And it kind of just was off the scene for a very long time. So even if they aren't going to drive it. Um, which I'd like, part of me understands not driving something that's essentially priceless or as close to priceless as you could be. Um, cause obviously he bought it, so it's not priceless, but who knows what it actually is worth. And then now, uh, you know, now it's going to be showing up at stuff and they, they let it come to Lifka Cult, which was just a little while ago in LA, this amazing, uh, typically air cooled, uh, Porsche show. done by Patrick Long and a handful of others. And they gave this one kind of a pass, despite the fact that it's water-cooled, to come to the show. So a really bonkers story, a good read. It's not an especially long write-up, but I'll throw it in the show notes. And yeah, the 962CR. You know, I had seen like a photo of it, and I didn't know the Choupan side of it. I just knew that it was called the 962CR. So to have one kind of surface in a high-profile manner, all really cool. |
| Jason Stacey | It's funny you mention this. I follow the cultivated collector on Instagram and now I'm looking at his feed and I have seen that car and some of his photos and it's really wild looking and I didn't know the backstory. It doesn't look real. Yeah, so I want to read that story but it's an interesting final note to follow up an episode that we talked about collecting and how we kind of tend to collect things that we like to wear and use. Here's somebody who's bought this incredible vehicle with zero miles that will never get used. It's both It's fascinating. It's also a little bit frustrating. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, this is like opening a safe up in an old apartment in Zurich and finding a 4113 split second chronograph. You know, there's 12 of those. It's worth several million dollars. And I understand why you would want to be very precious about the way that it is. And to be honest, I think that if it's a scenario where they're going to take it to car shows and people will get to see it and take pictures of it and learn about it. then I guess theoretically you could live with the idea that it's not going to be driven. |
| Jason Stacey | Does rolling a car on and off a trailer, does that add something to the odometer? I mean, is it to that level of terror? |
| Jason Heaton | It's a good question. I don't know. I don't know. And I also don't know what sort of odometer's in a Le Mans car that's been converted to a road car. I guess they're not measuring hours on the engine like you might for a race car. |
| Jason Stacey | And I suppose, could you start it up and rev the engine? Sacrilegious. |
| Jason Heaton | I assume not. I don't know. Wow. Amazing. It's cool. Super cool car. I mean, it just looks, it just looks incredible. Yeah. Wow. Like a spaceship. Wow. That's a great story. |
| Jason Stacey | So what do you got for us? Well, I'm at the exact opposite end of the spectrum with my first one. It's a, there's a guy, a British explorer named Alistair Humphreys and Alistair over the years has done some interesting stuff. He was kind of the person who coined the phrase micro adventures, which I'm a huge proponent of. It's kind of this notion of just, you know, go out the door on a weekend and camp in your backyard under the stars. And that's a micro adventure or, um, you know, do a, uh, paddle down the, down the Los Angeles river or, or wherever you live or, you know, the sort of idea that adventures don't have to be grandiose and expensive and far away. And, um, He produced this, didn't produce, he kind of starred in and wrote the text, the voiceover for a video on YouTube. It's about four or five minutes long. It's called Wilderness. And it was filmed predominantly, I think, in Wales or Scotland, kind of in the hills over there, very moody, beautiful scenery. And it's kind of accompanied by this very sort of philosophical voiceover about kind of the power of just getting out, just getting out for a hike and, and kind of the power of wilderness. And, um, you know, I think with everybody's kind of busy lives and, um, you know, you and I are always sort of lamenting the fact that we can't just get out and go camping as often as we'd like. And I think this is kind of a, it's, it's both a little, um, you know, it gives me a sense of yearning to watch something like this cause I haven't been in the woods for a while, but, uh, It's also very inspirational and kind of a nice break from a busy day to watch that. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, it's very cool. It's a good selection. Yeah. So my second is a piece by Hannah Elliott, who I mentioned briefly earlier from Bloomberg. And it's the story of a guy who actually took one of my favorite cars, which is a Dino, a Ferrari Dino. And he spent an additional million dollars, essentially making like a singer-esque sort of outlaw version of the Dino. So it's on a wide body. It's got closed headlights, uh, fully redone interior, uh, carbon fiber, like engine cover. The engine is up, uh, nearly, uh, double in power. I really just recommend people go and read the story because they're going to actually produce now 25 of these, uh, Dinos. And he calls it a, uh, a Dino Monza 3.6 Evo. And, uh, I'm sure it's not the kind of thing that Ferrari's that excited about. But what I would ask you to do is, and I'll put both in the show notes, and there's actually a photo in here that shows a stock Dino and this modified Dino. Go take a look at that photo because I think at first, especially because this modified one is black, you don't immediately see the difference. But take a few minutes, especially if you're a Dino fan or a vintage Ferrari fan, to take a few minutes just to kind of take in the photos. Obviously read the piece, Hannah did a great job with it. And it's a story that, that got picked up a bunch of other places because other people weren't writing about this car. Yeah. And, uh, and it's the brainchild of this one guy who owns, uh, like a jewelry business, uh, Hing Wah Lee Jewelers, this guy, David Lee. And I think what he's done with this car, while I'm sure purists will have a problem with it, it looks so beautiful. I mean, the top shot is a profile photo with the, with the roof removed. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And the car is on, the wheels are perfect. The slight fender flare is incredible. Yeah. I mean, this is one, this, the Dino was already a beautiful car, but this guy must have. Such a visual aesthetic developed to be able to see what the car was missing in his mind and take it to this level. I don't have to say anything more show notes. Take a look. If you're into a, into a vintage car like this, it's just. so cool what they did. And it's a car that, you know, one day I hope to see again. He said in the piece he's planning to bring it to Quail. So, you know, hopefully I'll make it out to Quail again this year for Pebble Beach and get a chance to see it and take some photos then. What an incredible thing. And what a cool project. Like if you're if you're a wealthy car collector. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I love this kind of stuff. Yeah. That's nobody else has that. And the response has been so good. He's going to make it like as a side business. Like they're going to make a bunch more. Those wheels are wild, aren't they? Oh, beautiful. Yeah. Car looks great. And you see that picture down below where it's next to a white one. Yes. Yeah. And like it looks somehow more Ferrari, the black one. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Nicely done. Nicely done piece by Hannah and a really, really cool car. You want to take us home? |
| Jason Stacey | Yeah. I'll close out with my second note here. It is kind of a combination of things here. I mentioned earlier my upcoming trip where I'll be diving with Laurent Balesta who is, if you don't follow him he just joined Instagram and just started popping up some unbelievable underwater photos. Many of which are from his recent book which is called 700 Sharks in the Night. It was a book that I was given by Blancpain at Baselworld and have really enjoyed reading it and looking through it. I'm not sure where it's available for sale or if it will be I imagine it will be, but I couldn't find it on Amazon or even on a website. But we're going to put a link in the show notes to an article on nationalgeographic.com. It's kind of an excerpt from a magazine story that he wrote about this experience of diving at night in Fakarava to observe the grouper spawning and kind of the feeding frenzy that resulted when you get 700 gray reef sharks kind of prowling Wow. And feeding at night. And his photography is stupendous. The work is incredible. They use really cutting edge lighting systems and very high speed cameras. And it's truly amazing to see his work. So we'll link out to the magazine article here. There's a little bit of video with it as well. And you should definitely follow Laurent Balesta on Instagram as well. So that's what I got and I'm sure I'll have more to report about Laurent and meeting him and diving with him in our next show. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, that sounds great. As always, thanks so much for listening. You can hit the show notes for more details and you can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at J.E. Stacey, and you can follow the show at The Graynado. If you have any questions for us, please write thegraynado at gmail.com and please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the Free Music Archive. |
| Jason Stacey | And we leave you with this quote from Charles Bukowski who said, The problem with the world is that the intelligent are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence. |