The Grey NATO – 349 – Watch Enthusiasm, Then and Now
Published on Thu, 16 Oct 2025 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
In this episode of The Graynado podcast, hosts Jason Heaton and James Stacy discuss the evolution of watch collecting and enthusiasm over time. James begins by recounting his recent trip to the UBS House of Craft event in New York, detailing the various panels and exhibits that took place. The hosts then provide updates on TGN merchandise, including their fall collection and new Stealth Dad Hat in olive green. The main discussion centers around how watch collecting has changed since they entered the hobby around 2007-2008, noting the proliferation of brands, increased prices (particularly for luxury brands like Rolex and Omega), and how the community has evolved from forums to Instagram and numerous podcasts. They reflect on the challenges new collectors face with information overload and limited accessibility to certain desirable watches. The episode concludes with recommendations for a podcast about ultramarathon runner Killian Jornet and YouTube videos featuring rare Ferrari 250 GTOs.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 349, and it's proudly brought to you by the always-growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support, and if you'd like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is Jason Heaton, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host James Stacy. James, you're freshly back from a week in the U.S., south of the border. |
| James Stacy | I am. Yeah. I went down, uh, went down for this, uh, UBS house of craft event that Hodinkee ran. So it's our second year of doing that. Um, so that was, you know, a Tuesday through a Friday that I was in town. And then we went for, you know, not quite two full days into PA to see Sarah's family and, and have them hang out with our, our still very young son, uh, which is, uh, which is good. It was, it was a great trip, but man, am I worn, am I worn out? Uh, I was up very early this morning to try and get ahead of some Omega announcements and some other stuff like that, and just realizing I'm feeling pretty tired now as we click record. But look, it was a really, really good event, and we can spend some time in the chit-chat getting into that. I think we've got some sort of run of show or house cleaning stuff to get into first. But yeah, UBS was great, and the trip was awesome as well. |
| Jason Heaton | That's good. Before we get a little more detail on that, let's remind people that our fall merchandise drop is in full swing. We launched that a few weeks back. Judging by feedback on Slack and some photos I've seen on Instagram, etc., people are pleased with it. It's great stuff. The bulk of the new collection for this fall is courtesy of designs from our friend Matt Ludvigsen. We call it the Ludvigsen Explorer Collection. It's a series of Oh, t-shirts and hoodies and sweatshirts. And we've got some caps in there and some mugs and even some jigsaw puzzles, which some people have bought. I haven't actually seen any completed. So if you've actually put it together, there are a thousand pieces. So it is a bit of a challenge. Snap a photo. We'll give you a shout out on the pod here one of these weeks. Yeah, it's fun. So check it out at thegraynado.com slash shop. And recently we added by popular demand the Stealth Dad Hat, which was previously available with kind of a dark gray with a black embroidered logo. It's now available in olive drab green. So that's what's going on there. And just a quick reminder to people to please... Go ahead and confirm that your shipping address is okay. If you're using, you know, Apple Pay or Google Pay or any of those that autofill addresses. We've had a few cases where people have written in a bit of a panic saying the address is, you know, three addresses ago. It didn't update in Apple Pay and it's going to be shipped to the wrong place. And it is a little difficult for us to get into our fulfillment partner Printful and correct that before they ship stuff out. So just please do confirm that before you click purchase on anything you buy. So thanks for that. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's a good lineup. I wore a bunch of it over the last few days. I took the very silly, you know, sort of acronym hat, we'll call it, down to New York. And you definitely get some looks at a restaurant wearing that when people see the hat and then they go like, what are those? That's not a word. Yeah. So that's kind of fun. But yeah, it's nice to see the stuff kind of hit the slack and people sharing photos and commenting on sizes and all that other kind of stuff, which is great. So a huge thank you to everybody who's already bit the bullet on some of the new merch. And if you're keen, check it out, including the new Stealth Dad hat in green, which I think is a good addition, something that kind of slipped my planning when we were designing the hat. I had always had this idea of doing kind of a double dark gray, dark black sort of A stealthy option, but I think the green over green is quite a good pull. So a thank you to Anders on that idea, and it's now live on the site, so that's great. Other than that, we have, I would say, stay tuned probably for next week's episode or even a little sooner than that if you're on the Slack. We're just in the final stages of announcing a new offering. I wouldn't call it merch. It's much more kind of lofty than merch. It's not a watch. It's something else that a lot of people have asked for. We'll see how popular it is. But we're just in the final stages of kind of planning our way into that. It's with a great partner and I think a very cool design and something, you know, we always say that the safest bet from like a TGN standpoint is like if Jason and I would probably... use and carry and operate with this item, uh, then it's probably not too far off the mark. So I'm excited to see how people like it, but stay tuned for that. Um, as, uh, it's something that's kind of been in the works with a few different folks for, uh, for a while. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. People might be able to guess, uh, based on some Slack conversations in the past, but, um, yeah, we'll, uh, we'll be launching that within the next, uh, week or so. So yeah, stay tuned. That's, uh, something super exciting. So just a bit of background about the House of Craft that you were at last week in New York. Would you call it, you know, I didn't go last year or this year. Would you say it's sort of the spiritual descendant of the legendary H10 event that we were both at, however many years ago that was in New York? Is it that sort of event, sort of a gathering and series of talks? |
| James Stacy | Yeah, exactly. I would say it is largely sort of an expression of the same sort of idea of like putting down walls, getting a space for people to show up for a few days and then designing some programming to bring them in, whether that's a cool space or an exhibit or podcasts or live chats or all that kind of stuff. And last year it was in a little bit more of a difficult space. I really liked the space last year. It was very close to the office, which made it very easy to get to. and move back and forth. But this year, they kind of turned the format on its head where now we're kind of doing essentially an exhibit about 12 watches that Ben had picked. That's Ben Clymer who founded Hodinkee. The 12 watches that he thinks represents kind of the icons of the industry. Basically, we had a big kind of gallery presentation of those watches, you know, all covered with the walls and words that the editorial team worked up and photos and all that kind of stuff. And then an actual exhibit in the back where you could see an example of each of those watches. And that included some pretty nutty stuff. Like we had Wally share his actual first Omega in space. Oh, wow. We had general Douglas MacArthur's reverso. Um, we had some, some pretty crazy stuff. So I highly recommend you check it out as much as you can. And we're looking to kind of translate some of that into something you could say, hold in your hands, uh, uh in the future um and then aside from the exhibit which is called icons of time we had kind of daily we had a stage so we had kind of daily discussions and those were blended between more in crowd you know pseudo celebrity to actual celebrity sort of guests coming in and talking with Ben for the first couple of days. And then for the final day, day and a half, we had essentially a handful of live podcasts from the Hodinkee team. So kicked off the whole event with the director, Spike Lee. who came and chatted with Ben mostly about watches. Obviously, if you're a big film club fan, you'll know my love of Inside Man, which is one of Spike's films. And so that was how we started the event. And then after Spike, that evening, we also had Gary Struski from ESPN, who's one of the most delightful people I've had the pleasure of meeting in several years. a true watch nerd, a true fan of like Hodinkee and what we're up to. Uh, he's collaborated with us on some stuff in the past and he came out and chatted with Ben, uh, kind of giving the crowd who might not know, like that were from more of the UBS side of the client pool that might not know Ben super well, kind of a conversation more about Hodinkee and that sort of thing. And then just like an evening event, a chance to shoot photo reports. We have three photo reports, day one, two, and three on Hodinkee. And then day two was a very cool day because we had a live podcast with Tom Betteridge, who's the editor-in-chief of ID Magazine, chatting with Maleka. all about what it is to take something that largely has gone digital and bring it back to the page for Hodinkee Magazine and for ID Magazine and that sort of thing. Really fascinating talk. These ones will be, these podcast ones will be provided on the like Hodinkee podcast feed in the future. So just to stay tuned for that. We also had a special episode of The Business of Watches with Andy Hoffman with our buddy James Lambden. So talking about analog shift and developing that business from something he did on his own to something that eventually sold to Watches of Switzerland that he still runs at a much higher scale. It was a fascinating conversation. Andy and he did a great job. And then later that evening, Ben was joined by Tony Fadell, who many of you will know for creating the iPod and the Apple Watch. uh iphone um among other things nest thermostats like the nest brand is his as well he's now moved on to being like a much more varied sort of investor uh he wrote a fantastic book that i interviewed him about a couple years ago called build that i highly recommend especially if you manage people or would like to get better at being managed uh to a certain extent uh so build is a great book um but yeah he and tony sat down and chatted about all sorts of things i mean they had I don't think you get to keep Tony on topic. He gets to talk about whatever he wants at this point. You know, he's got that engineer brain and now that, you know, so many decades of the investor side. So we were, you know, the audience was learning about lab grown diamonds and AI and, you know, 3D printing in diamonds and all this sort of stuff. So it's a fascinating conversation. If we can turn that one into a podcast, we certainly will. So... Stay tuned for that as well. And then on the third day, we had a really fun one where in the morning we had a public event where a ton of people and definitely some of you listening came out. Thank you so much for holding us down. Mark Kozlerich and Tim Jeffries on my team sat down with Perry and Rayshawn from Risk Check Pod and had a great like kind of crossover podcast. They just recently got a TV show on cable. And so they were talking all about the kind of development of their show and their taste in watches and all that sort of thing. And I think it came out really, really well. I'm pumped to be able to share that one in the future. And then in the afternoon, Tantan hosted this guy, Jonel Felner, who is the beverage director of a group of restaurants, but includes Atomix in New York, which is like one of the biggest, most kind of in-demand restaurants in the world. I believe currently listed the finest restaurant in North America. And they sat down and kind of contrasted watch collecting. Joel Nell and, of course, Tantan are both watch fans and even things like deep down into like Nomos and stuff like that. And they contrasted that against kind of finding and collecting weird and rare wines and kind of bringing new markets to these kind of undiscovered elements. It was a really cool chat. We had a great time doing that. And then, yeah, a little bit of like a community event, people kind of hanging out, having a beer, having a wine, that sort of thing. And that wrapped up the day. It was three, you know, very full days for sure. But like I said, came across, you know, a good handful of folks that were in from sort of the TGN, the Slack crew, et cetera, and just super nice to say hi and get a chance to connect. and to see some of you there. And, uh, on the end, you know, on the other side, just thanks so much for coming out and kind of, like I said, holding us down, uh, filling the seats and that sort of thing. Appreciate you very much. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. It sounds like you were busy and I saw a lot of photos and I'm sure you were, uh, talked out. It was probably like, um, Toronto time piece show on steroids, uh, to a certain degree. Um, but I'm sure it was good. It's a lot of socialization. Yeah. I'm sure it was good to be back in New York after, after a long absence and see your team and meet some, some pretty cool people. That's great. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, there was a big delay for me just due to paperwork, just a visa, work visa, that sort of thing, which has become more of a reality in the last year or so. It made more sense to get some paperwork behind what we're up to and the work that we have planned for the future. So that just meant I was home for a little bit. So it was great to be back in the city. It was great to see the team and connect with those folks face-to-face. Got to hang out with Andy Hoffman. He's in Geneva. And so it was nice to, yeah, have that sort of centralized perspective for a few days. And then jumped a train over to PA and just kind of sat around and, you know, hung out with babies and family members and that sort of thing for a couple days. And then came back very early yesterday on Monday, which is... uh thanksgiving here in canada and and also holiday in the states so i'm wiped yeah yeah geez but but you came home to a package it looks like i saw that i saw the brightly polished bracelet so yeah i mentioned it on i believe it was the previous episode that you know i'm still i still haven't found what i would call like the the king bracelet for the nomos uh club sport world timer and but I'm still hunting, and I had found this one that we were kind of joking around and calling the Wellendoop, because it's kind of like, it's a steel version, sort of in the same aesthetic space as a Wellendorf, which if you're into Lange, you'd know is a brand that makes these bracelets that, you know, kind of became kind of iconic things for stuff like the Datagraph and that sort of thing. So I got one off of AliExpress. I'll include it in the show notes now that I've kind of had a chance to really check it out. It was a little bit more expensive. You guys know me. I love my like $12 to $15 Amazon strap purchase. This is more like $60 or $70, but it's AliExpress. So the price is going to be different when you click on it. And if 10 of you click on it, everybody's going to get a slightly different price. It was around $70 Canadian. So we'll call it around $50 US is what I'd expect. And honestly, I think it looks awesome. I shared it on the Slack yesterday and we immediately had people on both sides of the fence, like just immediately. But it's super comfortable. It's quite heavy, which kind of I think works well as long as it fits correctly. And I can't quite tell if I'm between two links. So if that's the case, a little bit of a bummer there because I definitely don't want something like this too loose as it has enough weight to go over my wrist bone and towards my hand. It definitely captures that sort of vibe of the like along a one on a bracelet with a bar link or like 40s, 50s dress watches or larger complicated watches with these sort of bar link bracelets. So I'll, you know, put a shout up on Instagram at some point. You can catch it in the Slack if you're listening from that perspective. But yeah, it's fun and I'm enjoying it. It's single sided screws like it's quite nicely made for 60 bucks. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it looks good. I mean, look, this is not my typical style that I'm just looking at the photo you posted on Slack. And it's sharp. I mean, that watch, for one thing, is pretty darn versatile. You've now posted pictures on like a sand-colored NATO. And of course, the leather looks great. Begrudgingly, I'll say the mesh works on it, even though I'm not a mesh fan. But that mesh broke. That's my other argument. Oh, no. |
| James Stacy | So I think I'm starting a new rant on the cheap. I'm okay with the more expensive ones. I haven't had them fail, but these cheap straps that I like to buy because I have a sickness of some sort, they have quick release, but they're cheap. Oh, so I had the I wanted to be able to wear a different strap on the NOMOS every day for UBS. So I wore the bracelet the first day because I was more dressed up and I thought the bracelet kind of suited the vibe. And I wanted to switch to this really nice Fratello gray suede that Nacho gave me, which has quick release. So I didn't have to have a tool or that sort of thing. And I think it looks incredible on the watch. It has a little bit of a leathery texture, but it still has more of like a suede finish. I definitely have a photo up on Instagram, maybe in stories, so I can share if need be. Great strap, really, really nice. And the watch takes a leather strap really well. But these stupid quick release with the little tab, they're not all made the same. They're not all made really well. I now have two problems. I'll get to my second problem with them in a moment. But the first one is like I want to go take that bracelet off. And the whole point of it is that you don't have the tool. but also in not having the tool you also don't really have like a shoulder to get a tool in it yeah so i went to take the bracelet off you know on thursday and the tab was gone and it snapped off at some point oh no and now i'm like well how do i get this off without damaging the watch yeah So luckily I had one of those little, they used to sell them in the, in the Houdinki shop. And I don't remember what they're called, but they're little metal tools. Like for you, you remove a cap and then reverse a little peg and put the cap back on. And what's one side's a pusher and one side's a fork. And so I was able to just very progressively, very slowly kind of dig my way in there and get the bracelet off. But at that point, I was like, they were captive as well. It had like a little metal tab that I had to almost bend and snap off to be able to. So I guess I could have put a higher in. But at that point, I was angry and the bracelet did not come home with me. You know, there's a $16 lesson or $18 lesson learned or whatever. So that's one problem. Keep that in mind when you buy these things, especially if they're set up where you can't really change the bar yourself. Like if you buy like this bracelet I'm wearing now that's on the Nomos, the 7-link, it has a little gap that allows you to put your own quick change in there. And I think I just have to buy a higher end quick change bar or a bag of them. But the one thing I will say that's making me like them even less is... is because this bar style end link has a bit of a gap to the case i can see the stupid little metal nub it's in every photo oh it just kind of looks dumb so i think in this case i'm going to take the quick change out and just put in quality like you know essender bars like i normally would yeah and use a tool if i have to change it but yeah it's just quick changes i really really like it for like the the inexpensive quick change the little where it's built into the spring bar I like it a lot on a leather strap. I'm not crazy about it on bracelets so far, especially when you can see the little nub, the little lever. I'm not sure what you'd call it. A little thing for your fingernail. It's annoying. Lacks refinement. And I think there's something so elegant about just a normal spring bar that works and has a proper shoulder. I find them very easy to change. You can have a little tiny tool in your bag. It's not that big a deal. But then you get spoiled by the quick change on the leather. And you're like, I could change this like three times a day. It takes two seconds. And the bracelet makes it a little bit harder. So that's my quick change spring bar rant for this episode. |
| Jason Heaton | But yeah, I'm liking the bracelet. Yeah, it looks great. I'm not a huge fan of quick change in general, but like you, I think sometimes if it's a good one on a leather strap or even a rubber or something, you can get spoiled with just being able to quickly swap stuff. Vertex does a nice job with quick change on their straps. |
| James Stacy | They do. Nice and beefy. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Well, I don't have much to report here, so we can jump into wrist check and the main topic. But I did manage to do a little work on the Defender over the past week. We had this long trip, 650-mile round trip a couple of weeks ago to go camping, and it did just fine. But the charging light was kind of flickering at low RPMs, and I figured it's either the battery or the alternator. And the battery was... Five or six years old, figured winter's coming. Maybe it's time to change to a new battery. So I put a new battery in. That did not solve the charging light thing. So I happened to have a new alternator in my garage for this occasion. Yeah, as one does when you have an old Land Rover. And so over the weekend, I swapped it out and... went largely okay. It was, you know, scraped up my, my arms pretty good, you know, reaching into tight, tight quarters with sharp bits of metal, um, which, uh, has some relevance to today's wrist check, um, which we'll get to in a moment, but, uh, yeah, it went, it went just fine. And so far the charging light is staying out. So I think, uh, I think all, all systems go and all's going well with that. And it's just, it's just a satisfying job to, you know, put a new part in a motor of a car and have things work properly and whatever else. So that's the big news here, if that can even be called big. |
| James Stacy | So is it hard to change on the Land Rover or not bad? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, the access is a little tough because it's kind of low down on the side of the engine. So I had to actually remove some of the ducting for the intercooler for the turbocharger and for the air intake and just kind of swing that out of the way and bungee it up to keep it from falling down while I was working. And it was a little bit awkward to connect up the wires on the back of it once I got it installed. But, you know, nothing horrible. It probably took me... two hours. There was one little connector that had to be changed from a ring connector to a spade connector. So I had to dash over to the hardware store and buy a little spade connector for 14 cents or whatever it was and come home and crimp that into place and attach that. But other than that, it all went pretty fine. |
| James Stacy | That's great. Yeah, I know with the Jeep, I had an alternator problem, which I know we talked about on the show, and I almost certainly caused by adding lights to the car and either messing with the alternator or the battery of the both. And I thought it was a battery, replaced the battery, didn't work. The nice thing about that was I was able to drive over to the car parts store near my parents' house on the day when I decided to do it and just replace it in the parking lot because you can stand right up on the bumper and the hood goes all the way against the window. And the alternator is quite central front. So once you have the belt off, it's just a couple of pins and like a couple of big bolts and it comes out and put another one in. And that made it a little bit easier than needing a second vehicle to go get the alternator because this one was taken off or to replace. You know, I was able to get there, pull it off, swap it out because they're going to rebuild it and take the new one, put it on and drive home, which wasn't so bad. That was one of my better days of service for the Jeep. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I did the battery in the parking lot at AutoZone, but I couldn't, the alternator, I was out in the driveway. And fortunately, you know, I parked it across the front of my garage, which I had the forethought to pull the other Land Rover out and park it on the street in case, you know, it was more than a one day job and I needed to get somewhere. I wanted to have some vehicle that was available. And I did manage to take the other Land Rover to the hardware store to get that spade connector that I needed. So I was glad I... thought ahead to do that but other than that yeah it was a pretty easy job and satisfying and now seems to be working fine so that was that was that was my eventful week if you can call it that not quite like uh house of craft but you know there was a certain craft involved i guess yeah for sure all right you want to jump into some risk check Yeah, let's do it. I mean, I, you know, since I sort of hinted at my chipped up, uh, bloodied wrists, um, I, I'm actually wearing a watch that arrived yesterday. I was in communication with, um, John Sebastian, um, who, uh, is the owner of Le Forban, um, Securité Mer, which is a long name. We'll just call it Le Forban, which is the revived French watch brand. Um, Jean Sebastian also revived, um, Triton. You might know that brand better. I love the Triton watches. They're really cool. And I'd met him years ago, I think at Basel world when he was in one of those kind of side buildings. Um, and really like what he did with Triton. And he's, he's since revived this, uh, Le Forbon brand, which is a bit lesser known, but it was one of the watches that the French Navy wore. And specifically he'd written to me because he knows of my fondness for bund style straps. And he's come up with a dive bund, which is made of rubber. And it's a really nice supple, I guess it's FKM rubber and kind of a tropic style strap. And then it has the rubber pad that goes underneath, which is quite thin and very... flexible and it has actually a circular cutout for the case back so you can I guess it's not even so much to reduce the height of the watch but so you can see the kind of the cool case back engraving on this watch but it's really comfortable and it really works well and it's got a really cool buckle with like this kind of very retro looking little anchor, um, that's, um, kind of sticks up at the back and, and it's really fun. And it's on a watch, um, that he sent it on and it's called the Marseilles, which is based on a watch that, that Le Forbon made in 1979 in the, the Monin style case. So, you know, we're all familiar with CWCs and several other brands, uh, momentum, et cetera, that, that use that, that case shape. And it's an, it's a really nice watch. It's a nice watch. And the strap is just spectacular. I mean, I've, I really just wanted to see the strap. And he said, well, which dial color do you want to check out? And so I chose this kind of fade blue that he sent. Yeah, the watch is, like I said, in the Monin case, 41 millimeters in diameter, 46 lug-to-lug, little under 12 thick, sapphire crystal, aluminum, 120-click bezel. It's about $1,000 US. It's like 940 euros, and you can get it on a bracelet or this dive button strap, and it's got a Sellita SW200 movement in it. Um, I, like I said, just arrived yesterday. I've been wearing it and relevant to my comments about my bloodied, uh, knuckles and arm. Um, the, the bun strap happens to be catching a scab on my wrist right now and it's kind of irritating it. So I might not wear this much longer for today until things heal up. But, uh, I was just so excited about it that, uh, um, yeah, it just, it looks really cool. This, this strap, I mean, for years I've wanted a bun strap that you could dive with. And I was trying to think, how could this be done? and they managed to pull it off and they will be selling this dive bund on their website separately for 99 euros it looks like and it says coming soon so it's not available yet but as soon as they do I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna buy one because I think it's just it's really a neat neat strap very unique |
| James Stacy | That's awesome. Yeah. You sent me a photo of it and, and I looked at the photo and my brain kind of a rubber bund. Okay. Yeah. I think in my mind I first read it as like being a rubber NATO and I was like, yeah, we've been, we've done this before. Yeah. And I was like, Oh no, no, no. That doesn't say NATO. That says bond. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. That's, that's hilarious. Yeah. And I'm glad you like it and are enjoying the watch. Hopefully your wrist heals up fast enough to get some more time with it. |
| James Stacy | Right. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | What are you wearing today? Yeah, mine this week, I've been wearing a handful of things since I got back, but really, as I alluded to in our previous conversation, I'm wearing the Nomos on this silly bracelet, which has just been so much fun. I've also been spending a lot of time in the evenings and just because I enjoy the loom dial with the titanium Halio C4, the fourth gen that I got back in April. So that's kind of my two watch. It's a very strange two watch. uh between the the complicated kind of highly polished nomos and then the very glowing super lightweight uh and uh halyos um but yeah those that's kind of the vibe right now but today as much as i might want to wear something else i've just been enjoying this very funny bracelet uh that i put on the nomos so that's uh that's kind of the move for me today oh that's great and i think it feels like um as we move into the main topic um i feel like the watch choices we have today |
| Jason Heaton | kind of representative of watch enthusiasm in general. As collectors, so to speak, you talk about this two-watch switch that you're doing between Helios, this popular micro-brand that's kind of swinging above its weight, and then Nomos, this kind of smaller but well-respected German brand. It kind of feels like... representing a certain point in the arc of our collecting and then me with this French micro brand on a really quirky strap. It just kind of feels like a nice segue to move into this main topic, which is all about kind of watch collecting and watch enthusiasm then and now, we'll call it, between when you and I first got into this hobby and where things are at these days. |
| James Stacy | It's just been on my mind, you know, meeting people this past week at this House of Craft event and, of course, the Toronto Timepiece show and seeing, occasionally we'll get people, you know, you and I got a couple emails, I would say in the last month even, from folks that have signed up for the Slack and for, you know, the supporter side, the crew, and say, you know, I've just found you guys. We're 350 plus episodes in, nearly a decade at this point. We're in our last six months before we cross over kind of 10 years of TGN. And it really does start to put a thing in my mind, which is if you don't focus on what it is to start in this hobby, it must be very opaque. You know what I mean? Like not just from like, oh, this site that I like or this podcast that I like or whatnot only covers very expensive things. Like that's whatever. But if you don't give people a starting point to start to develop, if you don't give people an open door to start to enjoy the camaraderie of this event and that sort of thing, I think it can be very weird. And then that got me thinking during some recent insomnia, just how different it must be to get into watches now. And, you know, let's say you're 25 or 20. How different it must be to get into watches now versus like, I think, Jason, you and I largely kicked off this interest like 2007, 2008. Yeah, that's about right. Yeah. Okay. I think since then, a lot of things have changed. The internet is both like a lot bigger, but a lot more divided up into kind of seemingly more interest driven chunks. But then at the same time, like, well, watches, well, you might be able to find the one podcast or 10 podcasts, like whichever you prefer. or your favorite blog or blogs or a few Instagram accounts, I feel like actually finding a community has been kind of diluted to the extent that you're kind of forced into the biggest ocean possible, largely these days. I think that's probably Instagram. Would you agree? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it's kind of taken the place of where we were at with the forums. And I think that and just a proliferation of podcasts. I think you're dead on with that. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I think the other thing that strikes me, and I'm willing to admit that this could be like a false perspective or like a false narrative because of the way that my job and my life in this world has kind of shifted, is it feels like there's a lot more new watches than there were in 2007 or 2008 or 2015 or maybe even 2020. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, certainly. |
| James Stacy | It just feels like the last couple of years, the entire industry's just had their foot on the gas. And I think it's really difficult for people to... When we started, Jason, you could be given a list. If you asked most people a list of a great sport watch under $250 or $500, you were almost certainly going to get the same. At least one or two watches would have been on everyone's list. And today, I just think that's so much more diverse. And I think there's good and bad to that. You know what I mean? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I mean, and to your point, I mean, I think you mentioned earlier, you know, what a busy week it is with kind of New York Watch Week and then the... launch of some new Omegas today. I mean, there were a bunch of new Speedmasters that just launched today that you wrote up for Hodinkee. And I was looking at that and I was thinking how, with regard to this topic that we're talking about, like back in those early days, you know, you could probably count on, I don't know, one hand, like the number of Speedmaster references that there were, you know, there was, I think maybe in the mid 2000s, there was... you know the sapphire one the he's a light you know maybe a moon phase and you know maybe something else maybe an automatic or whatever it was speedmaster racing mark twos came quite a bit later there were a few but now it's like they're three or four new dark side of the moon stuff you know and that's its own family and it's just that that's just exploded as well as all the planet oceans and man yeah it's it's crazy all the skews just and that's just omega |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I mean, I would say Omega's been on that path for a while, but I also think Omega's an interesting brand to talk about if we're going to talk about even just the span of time that TGN has existed. Because I think for those of you who started at the start with us or have gone back and listened, or if you're Tom Place and you've listened several times through, shout out, Tom. You'll remember that the perspective on Omega in the last eight, nine years has changed hugely. They were much more accessible. They were much more readily available in the secondhand market at very like kind of open door sort of pricing. And now, and I'm not saying you're getting less watch, you're getting a significantly better, higher end, much more luxurious sort of watch. But they're just, in many ways, they're like a brand with an entirely different plan than they were in the early mid 2000s into 2010s, that sort of thing. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | You know, we've definitely had conversations, you know, 330 plus episodes ago about how... Omega going up to kind of put more pressure on Rolex left this sort of void, which Longines and Zinn and in some ways later on, Doxa started to kind of step into, like if you wanted to spend $2,500 to $5,000. And of course, we know the Over time, a few years into that plan, you started to hit, you know, Tudor really started to nail like one major release after another starting about 2012, right? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, we talk about brands that have evolved and changed and Omega is certainly one of them. And going back to kind of our earliest days in collecting, if we're talking in the 2007 era. You know, another brand that figured very large in those days for me was, of course, and you as well, of course, was Seiko. And, you know, Seiko was the watch enthusiast's brand for kind of people new into the hobby. You know, that was kind of the gateway watch, the forum favorites, the SKX, etc. And that's a brand that has evolved in a different way than Omega. But I think both of these brands have evolved... um in response to the maturing or the evolution of watch enthusiasm itself and i think you know seiko is one of those brands that i they must have been paying some attention to watch enthusiasm and and kind of the enthusiasm for something like the skx and then they spun off the all those variants in the in the seiko 5 category that were essentially um skx i don't want to say clones but you know they they lacked a screw-in crown but they had the same case shape the same look and then they just made this kind of street style looking skx and and so they evolved in a very different way and and they are not the same brand that they were back then as well just just like omega isn't |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I would agree. The nice thing about Seiko for me is it feels like they have largely held on to that core. I mean, we don't still have the SKX007, and watches of that ilk don't cost what they cost when you and I got into it. I think I paid $175 for my 007. Yeah. I think if you buy a Seiko 5 today, the sort of modern take on a 007, I think you are getting a better watch, but you're spending more money. Is it a totally insane spin? No, it's a couple hundred dollars more. But that is like double. But also, a lot of things are more expensive than they were back then. And I still think Seiko offers a ton of value at their price point. What I find interesting is the brand has kind of moved its enthusiast point a little higher. So they're still making a great entry-level watch. And I think you can probably... While you maybe can't go out and get an... snzk or you know one of those seiko 5 pilots watches of the references escaping me at the moment well you can't go and maybe snag one of those for 75 on amazon like you could i do think that they're still making a really solid watch at the base of their price point but that they put the most interesting stuff kind of one step up yeah 800 to 1500 dollars And I think that's kind of an interesting thing because you don't want to oversimplify. But, you know, if brands like Tudor and Longines and Zinn kind of slotted in where Omega used to be, do we have a Seiko, a world in which Seiko and then some of these higher end really nice offerings from Citizen recently kind of slide into where maybe Longines was operating at one point? |
| Jason Heaton | Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And then looking at the, that affordable end of things, you get, you get so many of the brands that we see at, at these great enthusiast level shows like, um, Toronto time piece show or the windup shows, um, you know, the, the Laurier's of the world, the Elliot Brown's, I mean, granted they're more expensive, at least in the case of, you know, Elliot Brown, whatever we're talking 700 to, you know, $1,200 watches or thereabouts. |
| James Stacy | Um, |
| Jason Heaton | but there's just so much more competition that that whereas in the early days of you know when i was on watch you seek it was it was just all about you get yourself a seiko or a citizen and there were just a handful that people were talking about and the micro brands were just starting to kick off you know you had um eddie platts at time factors selling the the dreadnought, you know, that, that was like the, the, the culmination or the, the top of the pyramid when it came to, I mean, the dreadnought dude, there's some, there's some people smiling at their dashboards with you bringing up that watch for sure. I mean, it was, it was, that was the top of the pyramid when it came to kind of micro brand dive watches back in the day. I mean, they were so coveted though. That was such a popular watch. And now There's just there are just so many. I mean, look at the one I mentioned today. I mean, this look for bond. It's just people are going to be scratching their heads and Googling that right away and being like, I've never heard of this brand. And it's just it's crazy how much how many choices there are now. And and as well as the access. I mean, I think thanks to Instagram shows like, you know, wind up. um, you know, podcasts mentioning these things. It's just, uh, if I were just getting into things now, I mean, my head would just be spinning. I'd just be, I wouldn't know where to, you know, back then I just didn't have as much kind of self-control and I was just sort of wildly wanting to try everything I could. And that'd be really difficult nowadays to make a choice. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I think it is difficult. I also think that the signal to noise is a lot higher than it was, you know, when we started to learn. And I think that the path of maybe not your first watch, but if you think about like your fifth to 15th watch. When you really start to like be able to have something to think about from the last one that maybe you sold or you didn't like or you traded or whatever to the next one, like when you start to carry your own taste forward. Yeah. I think that's probably like a lot more complicated now. On top of that, you see like what's happening with AIs, at least I see it from my perspective, like it's really kind of dissolving the ability for someone to more easily use the internet to have a question in their mind and find like a human who's able to or a group of humans who are able to kind of answer that question with nuance. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Right now, you know, the web traffic is really crumbling because people search things and Google gives you like a summary of everything it can find. that's not necessarily going to be advice. It might be like a pretty good way to find a restaurant or that sort of thing. But for something that you really have a very specific idea as to what you might be looking for or you want to find somebody else's specific idea, I feel like that could be kind of damaging to... the sort of laddered up approach of this hobby, like this for most people. And I am, I am, you know, using my own perspective as a, as a grander one, but I think it's one I've heard a lot from a lot of people. A lot of people come to this hobby by starting out with an inexpensive watch or maybe, maybe inexpensive in their life, something that they're, that they find approachable, right? That could be any number depending on who you are, but And then you kind of ladder up from there. You find other things. You go a little deeper. Maybe you start to love independents. Maybe you start to love single brands. Maybe you started with a dive watch and you go, well, it turns out I don't really like dive watches. I just had a friend that did. I like chronographs or I like weird dress watches or I like little tiny vintage watches or that sort of thing. And I just, I don't know how someone gets there with this sort of... homogenized version of the internet that we're getting in the last year two years there's so much more of everything right so you have far more watches than we were used to a few years ago but you also have far more outlets and personalities and influencers and sub stacks and podcasts and let's be clear we're part of that problem if we're going to call this a problem yeah But there's so much more now. So I think the level of like needing a filter is higher than it's ever been. And I think back in the day when you and I started and I think there's a lot of people who have a similar like watch age as you and I that would be listening. late 2000s, we'll call it, mid to late 2000s, maybe some of these guys that were in earlier, when there's only five magazines in your industry, that's a good filter. Or at least it's an effective filter. Good or bad is up to you. It filters. It feels like it's never been more important to have... Not necessarily face-to-face, but these sort of communities. This is kind of maybe what was under my skin when we planned the topic for the Toronto Timepiece show. It was like the importance of community. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | When the watch world feels bigger than it's ever been. Yeah. You know, you have the watch world really touching many other subcultures. Sports, politics, obviously other luxury goods. Those are all like... That's not like a brand new idea, but the speed at which it's happening... feels novel yeah even since the pandemic since the sort of huge peak that we saw for the secondhand rolex prices and in these topics that are now kind of so so spoken out that they don't have to be underlined again |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and I'm not sure that we're, you know, we certainly aren't the arbiters of all that's good in watches. You know, we're just two guys expressing our opinions. And I think you're right. I think that's all part of the community aspect of it. And that is so important because, you know, with the huge variety of tastes, you know, I just never dip into kind of the high-end vintage collecting stuff or I don't know anything about Patek Philippe and whatever. And if I were someone that were just dipping into that... I'm not sure where I'd start. You know, it's just, it would be really, really difficult. I guess when I look back at when I started, we talked about kind of Seiko and then Omega was a bit more of an aspirational brand and just, you know, you brought up Rolex a couple of times and I think the Rolex was and still is to a certain degree, this sort of very aspirational, you know, one day I'll have the Rolex or that's kind of the pinnacle or something to go for. But on the other hand, They're also so inaccessible nowadays just due to kind of the rarity of them and pricing has kind of gotten crazy. Just anecdotally, when I turned 40 in 2010 and bought my Submariner at a mall jeweler, which is now defunct. I can remember the price. I think it was $4,400 for a new 140 60 M Submariner, you know, on bracelet and, you know, brand new, um, that I bought on store credit, you know, crazily, um, and paid off over time. But like, what is, you know, that was 2010 now we're 15 years later. What is the new sub going for? Is it, it's not quite 10 yet. Is it, I mean, it's what, between eight and nine or thereabouts. I mean, that's, that's, that's kind of crazy. I mean, that's, it's just doubled in price so quickly. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, look, I think the doubling in price is one thing. When we started, Rolex was aspirational, but didn't have this added level of access. |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm. |
| James Stacy | Don't get me wrong. In the late 2000s, there were a few Rolexes you couldn't buy. A Daytona was going to be difficult. A special Daytona was going to be extra difficult. You had to have the relationship, all that kind of stuff. We're not debating the entirety of this, but walking into a store and buying a Sub, walking into a store and buying an Explorer II, or that sort of thing, was never as difficult as it was just recently. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | and the pricing was one thing. They were always going to be expensive, and your position on what's expensive and isn't is what it is. If Seiko's doubled in the same amount of time as Rolex, then something is happening there that's evening out. I'm not saying the value doubled, to be clear. I'm not saying the value doubled. It's just that the price doubled. and Rolex clearly has no trouble selling their product at that price, and Seiko seems quite successful selling theirs at their price as well, so there is a reality at play. I think the part that has really changed is when you got into this, regardless of where you were, and we've talked about this in the past on the Rolex curve of Rolex is the greatest, Rolex is overrated, Rolex is really solid, they make a great sport watch, and it can take time to move through that curve. Regardless of where you are in that curve, Rolex was always there as like a... If you like a very conventional, often sport watch, this was the crown. And it is. It still is, right? But you could get them. I didn't pay nearly as much for my Explorer II almost 10 years ago as you even paid for your Submariner. And that's because Submariners were more in demand and yours was new. I bought mine secondhand. And, you know, I think it's an interesting thing because I don't know what, well, I do know what, because I get emails from people or a friend of a friend or a friend of a family member finds out the job that I have and they go, oh, can I get, can I, you know, I'll get a text message. Can so-and-so send you an email? They have a question about a watch. Not to be a jaded guy, I go, yeah, absolutely, you can do that, but I already know what they're going to ask. Yeah. Can you get me a GMT Master at retail? Right. And the bummer, because nobody would understand this necessarily, the bummer is I don't actually know if I could get a GMT Master at retail. |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm. |
| James Stacy | And I work for Watchers of Switzerland. You know what I mean? I'd have to ask around. I'd have to figure it out. I have a better chance than the average person who doesn't have a buying history with a brand and a relationship with an SA. I definitely have a better chance. It's not an equal deck. But it's not like I would just go, oh, one second, I'll send a text message and somebody from a watch a Switzerland retailer would be like, oh, yeah, no, we've got it. We're just, you know, we've got a drawer full and we're just waiting for the right text message. It's like it's kind of crazy. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think I don't know. I don't necessarily know. Aside from that world where you get into it and then immediately this thing that you might aspire to kind of has like a wall around it and you have to figure out your way over through that wall. |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I don't really know what the effect is. It'll take more time to kind of figure out what the effect of that is on enthusiasm. I would say that there's definitely a wing of watch enthusiasm that's novel in the last few years that's more focused on the hype and the retaining of value and those sorts of things. And I don't think that's something, Jason, you and I promote that strongly on TGN or care that much about. It's mostly watches for watches' sake. They're silly things and they bring us silly joy and that sort of thing. i guess what i'm trying to get at is it does feel like the tone of enthusiasm has changed and people have to move a little slower because there's so much more you're filtering so much more like noise it's it feels like a signal to noise thing and the old guard of which i guess you and i now count as a part of are over here talking about rolex like we just did for the last five or six minutes yeah yeah and and that doesn't help this thing where people want that or people go that's what they want and you know i I've had it two or three times in the last few months where I spoke to somebody. I saw somebody. I won't put you on blast. I know you're listening. I saw someone at House of Craft who was wearing a Rolex, a modern Rolex, and they said they walked in, expressed interest, and about a month later, they got a call. Wasn't a GMT Master, wasn't a Daytona, but it was a great watch. Would be my preference over a GMT Master or a Daytona. Sir, if you're listening and would like to share your story in the Slack, by all means, go nuts and please do. If the world is returning to a scenario where... You could walk in and buy a steel Rolex, at least some of them, a month. Who cares if you wait a month? I might have waited a month for my $50 strap from AliExpress. It is what it is. It's the unknown element of like, yeah, we'll give you a call. And it could be years. Yeah. It's not like a real it's not like walking into a deli and getting a number. You know what I mean? |
| James Stacy | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | It's so much more complicated than that. And I think that puts a bad taste in people's mouth. And I think it has an effect on watch enthusiasm, which which that last part is what bothers me. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Doesn't bother me that someone can or can't buy a Rolex. It's that it seems to have this impact on the way people feel like they can appreciate watch ownership. And, you know, part of what we try and do here is make it clear that like you can have a lot of fun with a cool Aqualand or, you know, a Nomos on a weird bracelet or, you know, a dive watch on a rubber bund and that sort of thing. Like there is the scope is broad. Yeah. But you really have to you really have to consider what the experience is like for someone who's new to this. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and I think if we sound like a couple of kind of old curmudgeons, you know, lamenting the good old days or the loss of the good old days, I think the flip side of all this is that never have we been at a time, at least, you know, in our years and probably in history, where there's been such, you know, we're just, everyone is just spoiled for choice and that's good and bad, but there's just so many options for... for really cool brands. I mean, even, even like Nomos, you know, like, I mean, Nomos has been around a while, but they're, they're not a really old brand, but like they're, um, you know, it's, it, you look at Nomos, you look at this Le Forbun, you look at the Aqualand, you look at Helios, um, just, uh, you know, CWC, all these brands. And it's really exciting. I mean, that part of it's exciting as well as all the accessories and things that go along with it. All the fun communities and outlets from Red Bar to Wind Up to Toronto Timepiece Show. And it's just a lot of fun. And there's so much out there now that's available that if you're hungry for it… this is a buffet, you know, I mean, look at this, even just straps. I remember, you know, looking for straps in the early days and it was like Hirsch, Die Modell. That's such a good point. You know, like there's so many straps. Panerai leather stuff was, you know, like a couple of people making kind of homemade stuff that you could get in a few NATOs. Now it's just, there's just so many options. It's just so fun. I mean, the goofy one you just got, you know, it's just, there's so many options. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, no, I agree. It's good. I realized as I was talking there that that probably came off as quite negative. And please just attribute that to some tiredness and that sort of thing. I do think that while the signal to noise is more difficult if you're brand new, with a few tools and with some advice, I think you can find your group. And look, to be clear, this is not an ad for the TGN Slack. If you're listening to the show and really like it, you'd probably have fun on the Slack. You would. But there's a lot of other great groups. There's a lot of awesome sub stacks. You know, you go into worn and wound and they have a slack all their own, like a platform all their own, where you can go in and really dig in on kind of similar topics, but deeper into watches, deeper into the things, the EDC and the rest of it. that they cover uh like i think that it is a world where i highly recommend you know people make the effort to try and find groups um because it'll take some trial and error um and whether that's your local red bar or something that's online or a mix i mean like man when when we started i can't stress this enough when we started there was like four websites yeah yeah when i started writing about watches hodinkee a blog to watch didn't exist It was Watch Report, and then I spent my days on Watch You Seek and on Time Zone and on Poor Man's Watch Forum. And, you know, Jason might have been on Military Watch Forum and the Omega Forums and that sort of thing. There just weren't that many. And even when you got into them, you realized like, oh, you know, outside of a really broad scope on Watch You Seek, there's only like 40 guys in here. Once you spent some time in there, like, you know, it'd be the same few people. Yeah, yeah. My advice would be like treat any of these experiences when you connect with someone online as a bit of like a job interview for them. Do I want to be influenced by this person? Do they reflect kind of my values, my taste in watches, what I'd like to learn? If you don't have taste, then your need for learning. Like I just remember the reason I ended up at Watch Report years and years ago is because I got into, I just started reading about watches and I read every story on the site. I don't think you could do that on Hodinkee today. That would take a long time. That would take a really, really long time. And also, it's not just Hodinkee. A blog to watch is out there doing great work. Fratello, Monochrome, Time and Tide. Yeah, Worn and Wound. It goes on and on and on. There's so many great sites, each with their own kind of perspective. And look, when it comes to a new Omega, I'm sure all of us published largely similar stories this morning for the new Dark Sides. But look beyond that. The new cycle is one thing. The enthusiast cycle, I think, is something worth focusing on. So yeah, it's a fascinating time to be trying to think about it from a perspective that started almost 20 years ago. Because there's so little, like I feel at times I could be helpful with like specific advice. But like broad scale advice, you kind of have to like step into the water or into the river and keep your head above water and try and find what parts of it kind of appeal to you and kind of work for you that way. But it's you know, we didn't really have a really tight topic, but it's just something that's really been weighing on my mind for a while. Probably something worth, you know, digging in with a few guests in the future. Right. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I agree. And I think this was a good kind of follow-on or sort of part two to the discussion at Toronto Timepiece Show. I think, yeah, we're just one slice of kind of the community and kind of the history, our own history in watches going back to 2007, 2008. And I think our perspective is just one of them. So it would be fun to... keep bringing people in and talking about this as well as hearing people's feedback and perspective on Slack in response to this topic and this episode. |
| James Stacy | I would love to take this to the next level with the Slack. I'd also love to figure out ways where Some of the advice that might come through the Slack could be passed back to someone who's just starting, whether it's a story on Hodinkee or something like that in the future. So yeah, I think a good topic to keep on the list. But yeah, I guess we're the old fuddy-duddies now. But it definitely at times feels like nothing changes. And other times it feels like the pace is just nuts. We're doing the same thing. It's just 10 times more than I remember it being. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, we're like the frogs, you know, slowly being boiled in water. I think we're on the inside. We're just not, you know, we're kind of unaware of how things must look from the outside. And then it is fun to kind of go up to 30,000 feet and take a look every now and then. And that's what we're doing here. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, you know, a couple weeks ago, a colleague of mine just said, you know, does it feel like, one, that this industry no longer has, like, slow points? There's no, like, August doesn't get quiet anymore when Switzerland goes on vacation. And two, does it feel like where we used to have... you know, X number of big releases a year that were usually tied to a show or a certain season, you know, whether it's Watches and Wonders and then like a September wing kind of announcements, that sort of thing. But now it just feels like it's every week. And it's just, there's more and more and more. And yeah, I don't know what the, I don't know how anyone could absorb it all from an audience standpoint. You know what I mean? You'd need a massive team to cover everything from a, you know, publishing standpoint. But yeah, I think it's an interesting thing. And probably, probably worth giving, you know, additional thought and getting some more perspectives and that sort of thing. And maybe, maybe a good one. You know, we had a few people on the Slack asked to get Robert Young on for a proper chat and I bet you he'd have some, some really good answers for this topic. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Similar perspective. And he's been in, he's been around longer than us in the industry too. So that'd be for sure. Good one. All right. Well, should we, uh, close this one out and, and, you know, let's just call it to be continued at some point and move into final notes. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, let's continue it on the Slack and then see if we can find some great guests to come in and kind of chat over the evolution of watch enthusiasm over the last few years. But yeah, let's jump into final notes. You've got a podcast to recommend this week. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, the other day I was walking the dog and I tuned into the Dirtbag Diaries, which is a podcast by Fitz Cahal, who is a longtime kind of outdoor industry journalist. I think he's written for Outside Magazine and a few others over the years. And he's had this podcast called the Dirtbag Diaries. Um, he does a lot of interviews with, with different kind of figures and, you know, climbing in the outdoor space. And this one was particularly interesting. It was, uh, it was about Killian Jornet, who people might be familiar with. He's, he's a bit of a, he's really an incredible athlete and he's hard to pin down because he's, he's not just a Um, but he's best known for moving in the mountains very quickly. Um, going uphill very fast. He's set a lot of FKTs, you know, fastest known times up various peaks. Um, his, his kind of CV is pretty amazing, but his latest feat. was he, over the course of 31 days, he climbed all 72 peaks over 14,000 feet in the lower 48 US states. And then not only did he do that, he connected them all. by bicycle. So all human powered. And he did it in one month, 72 14ers. He called this project the states of elevation. There were some statistics that Cajal kind of gave during this interview with him. The number of vertical feet that he covered, you know, you can probably just kind of roughly do the math. Um, in terms of, you know, 72 times 14,000, um, plus, um, you know, the number of miles covered, um, they were saying like the amount of time he spent doing this, connecting all of them and doing the climbs, uh, you know, was the equivalent of having two 60 hour a week jobs or something like that back to back. I mean, just, just insane numbers. And, and this guy is. I don't want to call him superhuman. He's just super motivated, very talented, incredibly fit. It's just mind-blowing. And he's very humble. I believe he's Spanish. He's a very slightly built, pretty quiet guy, kind of avoids publicity. He's got an Instagram profile, which is kind of fun to follow. But this is just a really good podcast interview. It's a little less than an hour, 49 minutes or so. And Kahal's a good interviewer. And it's just... It's just an insane project. And he managed to interview him just as he was kind of completing. He finished. He started with Long's Peak in Colorado, which was my first 14,000 foot peak. And he finished with Mount Rainier in Washington, which was actually coincidentally my last 14,000 foot peak. And then in between he did 70 others. Just insane. I mean, it's one thing to climb all those. It's another thing to climb them all in a month. And it's another thing to do it all connecting them by bicycle. Or I guess in the case of some, he actually ran between them because they were close to each other. It's just insane. I mean, it's just, it's so insane. |
| James Stacy | I mean, it's just, it's the culmination of what his time decimating the ultra marathon scene and also the, you know, trail to Mont Blanc multiple times and all these sorts of things. I just, you know, he's putting it all together. It's that, you know, to do something that I just, how many people alive can do that right now? |
| James Stacy | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | A handful, maybe just him. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. It's just crazy. |
| James Stacy | I can't, this is going to be a great, great episode. Good pick for sure. Yeah. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | That's awesome. Yeah. What's on your docket here? You got two or one and a half here, I guess it looks like. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. One main one. And then just for some fun, a little like a sub note for final notes. So mine this week is a video review from Harry's Garage.com. That's Harry Metcalf, who I've had the pleasure of meeting a couple of times at car shows around the world. You know, former editor of Evo magazine. He has this fantastic kind of homespun YouTube channel that feels both current and also like something from a decade ago in its delivery. It's not especially flashy, but it is informational based. He's always teaching something. He's always sharing about his experience with cars. He's really good at what he does. I'm a huge Harry Metcalf fan. I hope someday in my later years, I will follow a similar path down whatever enthusiastic element of my life I'm into at the time. So he does these video reviews of various cars. He does reviews of, you know, what it costs to run his kind of fleet of cars for the year. There's a lot of stuff on his channel. Sometimes he just goes to car shows and walks around and walks you through all the vehicles that he sees, things of interest. He's a wealth of knowledge and a great presenter. But then last week, Harry posted something that's just something you don't see even if you spend a lot of time watching YouTube videos about cars, which is somebody driving, you know, like a reviewer driving a 250 GTO Ferrari. The most expensive car in the world, short of some very, very extreme examples. As far as like a car that was made that they made more than one or two of, they made 36 250s. 250 GTOs. This is it. I mean, we're talking about cars that occasionally sell for like 30 plus million dollars, sometimes well, well over 30 and trade hands in the rumors of 70 and 80 million dollars, that sort of thing. Is that a real number? I don't know. I don't know how to contextualize that much money for something like a car, but it is a very special car and it's not one that you see commonly driven by like a review host. I think they had it on Top Gear once. I believe it was Nick Mason's car. Nick Mason, the drummer of Pink Floyd. And I believe, you know, they could drive it on the track for Top Gear and that was about it. In this case, Harry's driving this 250 GTO to and from where it lives down the street from him to like a car event. And he gets to kind of give you a walk around tour, gives you a bunch of background. There's a book written about this car, all that sort of stuff. And I just I can't recommend this enough. It's a great example of a really low bravado, high information style of car review. And then he goes for a drive in a 250. It's just an absolute dream car in the vintage world. Even if you're not a Ferrari nerd, I feel like you're going to love a 250. The GTO, the story behind them, the value, the racing pedigree, the focus of these vehicles, you know, right into the edge of Ferrari's greatness into the mid 60s. uh before you know the lms and the rear engine to vehicles or the mid-engine vehicles started to have to battle the ford versus ferrari scenario and go like hell from aj bam and all this kind of stuff i could go on for a while i don't need to because harry's video is really really good i highly recommend it nuts and bolts of the car the driving experience the sounds all that kind of thing i i loved it really really good |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Well, that's really cool. I mean, I, I, I can't wait to watch this. I mean, I just, I love the sound of a two 50 GTO or just, you know, any of these kind of old Ferraris and this, this looks great. And yeah, I've, I've seen a few of Harry's videos and, and they look great. So what's the, what's kind of your bonus note here? That's also, it looks like it's Ferrari based as well. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, so in the past, we've talked about the Ferrari 250 GTO speaks for itself, the Petrolicious video with Derek Hill driving a 64 250 GTO really hard out in the mountains. And it's a great video. It really is. It's amazing and everything. And I think I've even talked about this video, which is why it's not a full-on final note. It's like a sub-note, an addendum to a final note. But if you just want the driving experience, the sound, the noise, the all of it, Petrolicious used to also do a version which was like just the noise, the raw experience they called it. This is a seven minute video that's basically just the like over the shoulder driving clips of the car as Hill drives it around these, you know, sort of. canyon mountain roads it's uh it's something else and i think the two of these go together quite nicely um into into one video both of them have a lot of views i mean this seven minute video has 2.4 million views so i'm sure some of you have seen it before but even just for a couple of minutes dive in click somewhere into the middle watch 60 seconds to help underline some of what uh harry was talking about in his video obviously harry's not going to drive the car like it's his yeah we are still talking about a car that's worth several lifetimes of money for the average person right uh you know upwards of 50 million dollars we'll call it who knows Um, all depends on the buyer and the backstory of the specific car and all that sort of thing. So yeah, these two videos go together really well, but just a treat to see Harry who can really review anything and I'll sit there and watch. Um, but to review like a true icon of, of like a mid-century Ferrari kind of excellence in the, in the two 50 GTO, it's a series two. It's very cool. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, just the pure sound of those things is just, it's worth it. Yeah, for sure. And I think a few of those 2.4 million views on that Petrolicious video are mine. Mine too, yeah, for sure. All right. Well, that was a great episode. It was kind of fun to kind of riff in a loose way about kind of the state of watch enthusiasm from when we started to now. And we'd love to get more folks in the Slack chiming in about that and possibly... |
| James Stacy | continue on with a sort of a part three loosely um on a future episode yeah for sure and as always thank you so much for listening if you'd like to subscribe to the show notes get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly maybe even grab yourself a new tgn sign nato please visit thegraynato.com music throughout is siesta by jazar via the free music archive and we leave you with this quote from peter devries who said nostalgia isn't what it used to be |