The Grey NATO – 348 – Slack Crew & A 2025 Part 6 [Camping, Watches with Personality, Dream watches, And a Special Dispatch from Geneva]
Published on Thu, 09 Oct 2025 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
In this episode of The Graynado, hosts James Sacy and Jason Heaton discuss travel, watches, and outdoor adventures. Jason shares details of his recent camping trip to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness in northern Minnesota, where he paddled a canoe, hiked, and enjoyed the wilderness despite having to rent a tent when his plan to sleep in his Defender didn't work out. The hosts review a voice memo from friends Cole and Henry who met up in Geneva, and conduct their "crew Q&A" segment answering listener questions. Topics include what makes the TGN community special, dream watch collections by metal type (steel, titanium, gold, etc.), maintaining personal taste in an algorithmic world, features they miss in older cars, and favorite camping gear. Throughout the episode, they also discuss their current watches—Jason wearing a Vertex M60 Aqualine and James sporting an Aqualand 40th.
Links
Transcript
| Speaker | |
|---|---|
| James Sacy | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 348, and it's proudly brought to you by the always-growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support, and if you're listening and would like to support the show, visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is James Sacy, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host, Jason Heaton. Jason, how are we doing? I'm doing pretty well. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it's a Monday for a change, sort of a different vibe to the show. I'm just back from camping, so I'm still kind of in this foggy wilderness mode, and you're deep into Monday mode. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, for sure. I'm definitely in a bit of a Monday mode. It's been an incredibly busy day, and then I leave very early tomorrow to go to New York for the UBS House of Craft and that sort of thing, and then a little bit of travel. So yeah, it's been good, but I definitely took the most of the weekend. I went into full weekend mode and didn't keep the pace, and then Monday's just kind of been overwhelming, which can happen. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, you got to do that. You got to lean into the weekends, I think, even if it means a little suffering on Monday. |
| James Sacy | Absolutely, yeah. And then, look, I want to get into the camping stuff and the rest of it, but it's now our second week in the row to promote the new Ludwigson Explorer Collection in the TGN shop. So that's our fall merch. My hats were just delivered now, so they can take a little bit of time. I ordered them the day they launched. quite some time ago, but I just got all of the hats in, which I'm very excited to be able to take one with me to what I hope will be something of a fall experience in New York, but it's looking like it might still be summer, so we'll see. I might have to change a couple of things I put in the suitcase. But look, if you're interested in some hats or a great selection of t-shirts and sweaters, hoodies, and even a few things you might not expect as far as merch goes, there's a ton in the TGN shop. We'll put a link in the show notes like we did last week. But just a quick reminder, if you're going through and using any sort of an automated system to put in your details, whether it's saved in your browser or with a plugin or you're using a payment system to do that, just double check. We've had plenty of people write in moments later and say, hey, totally wrong address. I've moved since then. Just double check your address before it goes in. It keeps things pretty smooth and definitely keeps the merch getting to you as quickly as possible. I think that about covers it, right, Jason? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it's been fun to see the merchandise pop up in photos on Slack. Some folks getting caps and shirts. I don't want to give away the fun for the whole family product. |
| James Sacy | Depending on the type of family fund you like. That's true. |
| Jason Heaton | It's been great to see people get them and it seems like everyone's enjoying them. Hats off to Matt Ludwigson for his help with the... Great set of merchandise that was a big part of this merchandise launch. So we're excited about that. And check it out at thegraynado.com slash shop. |
| James Sacy | Perfect. All right. So look, I haven't been up to a ton since we last recorded. I went, like I said, into like full weekend mode. I mostly watched, you know, Mission Impossible 2, maybe the worst one with my daughters. They did enjoy it. It's very goofy to watch it now. And other than that, you know, caught up on Formula One and that sort of thing. You had an actual adventure, got out of town. saw the site, put a boat in the water. How'd it go? Yeah, it went really well. |
| Jason Heaton | Christy and I drove up last Wednesday and it took most of the day to get up. We drove about as far north in Minnesota as you can get up to what's known as the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness and it's called that because it's this... Incredibly huge network of lakes that straddles the border with your fair country, with Canada. Also kind of overlaps with the Quetico Provincial Park and the Voyager's National Park here in the US. And it's just vast. It's just thousands of... interconnected lakes and you know with portages between where you have to carry your canoe from one lake to the next and a lot of people do it as kind of a full-on wilderness experience where they you know take their pack and and are camping and moving from lake to lake for you know the better part of days and in a week or more sometimes um what we did is we stayed at a national forest campground at the end of what's called the gunflint trail which is this road that dates back to the, I think the 1920s. It was kind of a logging road back in the day that sort of goes 66 miles from the shore of Lake Superior up into the woods up north and northwest into the boundary waters. And that's kind of the jumping off point for all of these lake excursions. And we stayed at a campground there. took the defender up and the plan was to sleep in the back as we've done on the sleeping platform in the back and we got to this incredibly picturesque lovely campsite that we had reserved months ago um kind of on an outcrop overlooking this channel from the lake down below with this big rock you know all to ourselves and a nice shaded area to put a tent and a fire ring And we said, you know, okay, well, let's set up camp. And we realized that the campsite was set down kind of a slope through the woods in this little bowl with some kind of crude steps leading down to it, which meant that we couldn't park the Defender in the campsite. So we couldn't sleep in the Defender after all. And we hadn't brought a tent because we just assumed we'd be sleeping in the Defender. So we ended up having to backtrack to... this canoe outfitter where we rented a Kevlar canoe, um, for a few days. And we kind of sheepishly walked back in there and said, can we, can we rent a tent from you? So we, we ended up renting a tent and brought that back, which was, which was great. And it turned out really well other than one night of rain. Um, the other three nights that we were at the campsite, we were able to sleep without the rain fly and just look up at the, Oh, that's so nice. Look up at the stars and the, you know, the aspens were doing their fall quaking, you know, those beautiful yellow leaves just above the tent. And It was, it was really lovely. And it was, you know, you mentioned kind of summer weather in New York and it was, it was downright summery up there. It was, I don't think I, you know, I had this vision of kind of an autumn wilderness experience and, you know, wool sweater and, and, you know, a beanie. And I never got out of my Tevas and shorts the whole time. It was quite, it was quite warm. So. But it was great. It was good paddling. We got out on Seagull Lake and did like a six-hour round-trip excursion on one of the days and did a shorter excursion the other day and paddled over and hiked through a portage to another lake called Alpine Lake and took a look at that and did a little swimming there in the cold water and then paddled back. It was just a, it was a real welcome escape. I think, you know, we, we camped back in April, but hadn't really been out, um, other than a cabin trip in July all summer to kind of get out in the wilderness. And it just, it felt really good to kind of sit and kind of be bathed in, you know, campfire smoke and drink some whiskey and have that first cup of coffee in the morning. So it was, uh, it was a really good time. |
| James Sacy | Oh, that's great, man. That sounds really cool. And the Land Rover performed admirably, got you there and back? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it did fine. It was, you know, I think about a 600 mile round trip. And, you know, it did fine. The biggest issue with that vehicle is it just has no soundproofing at all, like none. And so you cannot carry on a conversation on the drive and at highway speeds. And there was a fair bit of wind on the way home yesterday. you know, you're, you're either shouting or, or, you know, you just have to sit in silence. And so we, we both were driving along with noise canceling headphones on just doing our kind of in our own worlds. I was listening to an audio book that I'll mention in final notes. And, uh, and Christie was, was reading, but just had her, her set to noise cancel. So she didn't have to listen to the clatter and the wind noise. But, uh, other than that, I mean, it did fine for a 32 year old, you know, old truck, um, did, did, did pretty well. So I'm pleased. |
| James Sacy | That's great. Yeah. We joked while you were here and we were driving around in the Wrangler, we joked that you can buy like those headset units that people use like for really intense off-roading or like radio units, but they're essentially like helicopter headsets. Yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't be surprised if maybe, you know, if you and Christy really start doing a lot of these outings, if that becomes part of it. I love the idea because then you could be... You can plug in audio to them as well. Oh, sure. So you could be listening to a podcast together. I mean, I definitely have jokingly suggested them to Sarah. And to be clear, it was a joke to Sarah only. I was serious and would have more than happily kind of done that. But yeah, I mean, the Jeep is, you were just in it a couple weeks ago. It's not a quiet vehicle, but it's also not a loud vehicle. I would say it's right in the middle of what the spectrum can be. So I can only imagine with so many less creature comforts than the Wrangler has in your Defender that it can be quite a drone after some time on the highway, right? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and then there's no cruise control and no sound system of any sort and no HVAC of any sort. You open flaps in the front to let a breeze in. So the driving position can get a little tiresome too on a longer drive because the leg is always in this very rigid position holding the throttle down. So that can be a little bit tiring. all in all, I, you know, I'm, I'm used to it. It's, it's, it's my daily driver and it's what I'm comfortable in and it doesn't go terribly fast. I think we max out at 65, um, which is, which is just fine. But, uh, yeah, anyway, it was, uh, it was a good time. It was, uh, a great getaway and kind of, it's one of those trips that sustains you for a few weeks, you know, and kind of, it was a good, good kickoff to fall. |
| James Sacy | Well, that's fabulous, man. I'm glad to hear it. And I think I said that I was going to be jealous on the last episode. And it turns out, you know, through our text messages and then hearing kind of the full report now, I am certainly jealous. My weekend, we'd kind of planned to do some sort of an outing, whether up to the cottage or whatnot, but ended up having a bunch of family over because Sarah and I are away next weekend, which is Canadian Thanksgiving. So we wanted to see a few folks before we got out. And and did that. So, yeah, with the the weekend ended up being a lot more kind of time on the couch, which I think maybe I needed. But there's there's there's a there's a really specific type of like restfulness. Once you get to the campsite, it's set up and you're kind of confronted with like, well, there's nothing to do. I don't have any laundry to fold. There's no grass to cut. I'm not confronted with any chores. I'm just out here. So the question is, do I want to walk? Do I want to set up the hammock and take a nap? Do I want to read a book near the fire or in the tent? It's all that kind of stuff, which is awfully nice. And I definitely will get some of that this fall for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | yeah yeah yeah you've got some some busy travel coming up here and uh you know like i said earlier i think before you take a trip like that and certainly when you get home from it it is nice to just kind of crash out and not think about too much and sounds like you did that |
| James Sacy | Yeah, I think I would agree. But look, let's try and steer us back towards watches here with a little bit of a wrist check. And you and I can get into what we're wearing today, but we actually have a dispatch from the field. A couple of our agents in the field in Geneva. uh recently crossed paths and uh and i woke up the other morning to a voice memo uh you know big fans of the show will probably know what's coming but why don't we just uh play the tape from from our good buddies uh one based in geneva and one who happened to be there at the same time all right i guess this is kind of a tradition now and why am i entering the show because i ran into someone in geneva who is it it's henry catchfall and how are you |
| Cole Pennington | This is Cole, and I'm actually reporting live with Henry from a place called the Grand Duke. Before I get into why that's significant, what did you think about the Grand Duke, Henry? |
| Henry Catchpole | The Grand Duke is like a very British pub with Belgian beer transplanted into the heart of Geneva. |
| Cole Pennington | And it's honestly, it's not that great of a bar. But why I brought you here is because it is kind of where, you know, there's the eagle and the child in Oxford. Yes. Where, you know, the famous authors have penned Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Tolkien, I think, is, you know. I brought you here because this is where, and I know James and Jason have been through here. This is where all the watch writers come during Watchers and Wonders to get a pint or two in the system before going home and staying up until 3 a.m. writing all the articles and cranking it out. So you have now drank at one of the most revered institutions in Geneva. |
| Henry Catchpole | It is amazing. It was such a cool place to go. And I love places like that where they've got history. |
| Cole Pennington | So it's only appropriate that we do a little wrist check. I think so. So as I am the host in this city and you are the guest, I will ask you first, what is on the wrist, Henry? |
| Henry Catchpole | On the wrist today is an Arcan Altarum with the gray dial and the orange handset and time zone zone hands. So yeah, that's what's on my wrist and I'm absolutely loving it. |
| Cole Pennington | And what are you doing here anyway? |
| Henry Catchpole | I am on my way to a big Evo test down in the south of France on the route Napoleon. So yeah, I'm on my way through. |
| Cole Pennington | Just thought I'd check in. So we got the driving and the watches part. |
| Henry Catchpole | Exactly. |
| Cole Pennington | And the travel as well. Travel's for me anyway. Yeah, that's true. For me, I'm hosting. |
| Henry Catchpole | And it's an adventure going to the Grand Duke. |
| Cole Pennington | This is an adventure. This part of town is always an adventure. |
| Henry Catchpole | Exactly. |
| Cole Pennington | On my wrist, unsurprisingly, is a... Tudor Peli 39. And this is the watch I wore last time. So I will actually say my wife is with me. We have a BB 54. So I'll count that as part of it. So BB 54, Peli 39, Arkin. And it's all good. So I guess we should probably hand it back over. |
| Henry Catchpole | This is enough of hijacking, isn't it? With yet more terrible audio just to put James' back up. |
| Cole Pennington | It's not actually our show, so we might as well just kind of give it back to him. Sorry again. All right. Jason and James, take it away. |
| Jason Heaton | All right, well, that was a real pleasure to get a surprise audio dispatch from our buddies Cole and Henry there in Geneva. It's funny you mentioned agents in the field crossing paths. I love the idea of these two old friends and guys that have been on the show just sort of overlapping in this international city and then meeting up in a pub. It's such a great image, and I love that they took the time to record that and send it over. And hey, the Grand Duke is just such an institution. |
| James Sacy | The Grand Duke is an institution. I've often described it as, well, it's a bar. It has seats and beer. But I've had a pint there with Ken Lamb and Tom Clements, and certainly had a pint there with Cole, and I watched previous leaders of Hodinkee attempt to play darts and watch TV. I kid, and I'm being a little mean to the Grand Duke. It's never actually let me down as far as a certain type of ambiance and a cold beer and a place to sit, which really... can be hard to come by in Geneva. So that's very fun that they were there and crossed paths. You know, I think Cole has become a real ambassador to the rest of the watch world in Geneva. Yeah. Unlike me, he's so good at being like a connector and the type of guy who's always up to, well, let's figure this out. We'll do that. We'll do that. The last time I was in Geneva and had a bit of spare time, I connected with him and he took me to an absolutely incredible like little neighborhood brewery. |
| Unknown | Huh. |
| James Sacy | Up in like a suburb of Geneva. And then after that, we went to what ended up being quite a fancy restaurant. And the food was unbelievable. I had dinner with Cole and his wife. And it's just... He's a guy that digs in wherever he is. And he really finds the gems. And I think there's a great TV show of like... |
| Jason Heaton | you know one of new jersey's one of the princes of new jersey cole pennington uh you know really really finding the gems in uh in a town like geneva which is can be quite opaque i think at times yeah geneva i mean for those of us you know the i've been privileged to go to the watch shows there many times we are um we are fairly limited in our view of the city in in many cases because you kind of end up going from hotel to show and back and then some some dinner or some um, you know, some sort of event in the evening. And so you don't really see the true city. And I think, you know, Cole being the consummate traveler that he is with a capital T, you know, all over the world, I think he, he does just what you said. And that, that is to kind of dig in and, and likes to kind of expose the little hidden gems to the rest of the world and to friends. And that's great. |
| James Sacy | But yeah, just great to hear from those guys. And also, I thought Henry was maybe in town, you know, patching through from one of his other trips for an award show that he and the fellow that helps make all of his videos, Glenn, recently went to for Hagerty, as he mentions in the recording. That's not what he was there for. But we can't miss our chance to throw a huge congrats to Henry Catchpole and Glenn Winhall. Along with, to be fair, Glenn, along with, you know, being fair here, Jason Kamisa, Anthony Esposito and Robert Sanders, two times winners for the best journalism film category for Kamisa's video on the video that Kamisa hosted on the Corvette ZR1 and the McLaren GTR video for the driver's seat with Henry, which Glenn would have shot and produced. So they won a great award in a huge shout out to those guys. That's that's really something. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it really is. And, you know, I'm not surprised. Um, you know, Henry's just, he's just the best at what he does. And I just think, um, I love the content that's coming out of Hagerty. And, um, every time there's a new video that, you know, Henry faithfully puts up on his Instagram kind of as a teaser, I immediately go and watch it and, uh, you know, well-deserved and congratulations, uh, Henry and Glenn. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, I got a chance. Obviously, we've known Henry for a little while. I got a chance to meet Glenn in Aspen last year at the kind of the inaugural ice race Aspen. And and just two of the sweetest guys and also just so dialed on the work that they do. They're not making it look difficult. And then you see the video later and you're like, where did you guys pull this off? Yeah, no, it's really, really incredible work. And if you don't know Camisa and Esposito's work with his stuff, all of the stuff on the Haggerty channel is worth your time. I think they're doing a great job. But big shout out to those guys. Well-deserved on the award. And not really that surprising. But yeah, Henry and Cole, thanks for sending in that voice memo. Jason, what have you got on today? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, well, you know, I was, you know, got home late last night and then this morning I went out for my first run in about a week and was headed out the door when the DHL truck pulled up in front and figured it was something for me. I wasn't sure and I went out and grabbed the package from the delivery person. Opened it up, it was from Vertex, and it was the M60 Aqualine, the Taormina edition, so the blue version of their diving watch. That was from British Watchmakers Day last year? Exactly, and just a neat piece, and you and I are huge fans of the M60, and the timing was kind of perfect because when I was in Toronto a few weeks ago, I brought you my M60 to keep, and you've been enjoying that, but... it kind of created a little hole in my collection and uh and this blue one is just different enough that um it was just a really fun surprise and it was a nice personal note from Don saying that this was a watch that had kind of circled the globe doing some kind of uh you know kind of the press tour and and um you know for various write-ups and things like that and he said you know why don't you hold on to it for a while so lo and behold it arrived and I immediately took it off the bracelet and put it on the excellent rubber strap and that's how I've been wearing it and it's just a It's beautiful. It's such a bright blue. It's very different from, you know, like a Tudor blue. It is a little bit close to the Paul and Mara blue, actually, now that I look at it. The watch that I was wearing back in May in Scotland. But yeah, it's a beautiful piece. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, that's very cool. I like that a lot. A lot of fun. And yeah, I think that's interesting timing. You know, just when an M60 left you and has been on my wrist a ton recently, I've been wearing it on every rubber strap that I have that fit. I've tried all of them, and it's really quite incredible on the Marathon. Oh, yeah. Rubber strap. I like that a lot. But there's no way to beat the loom. I think I've said this on a previous episode, like I was wearing it and then went to bed and fell asleep with it on. It's a little bit of a chunkier, like it's very solid. Yeah. It's not that big, but it's quite solid. So it wears differently than like my Pelagos 39. And then I woke up in the middle of the night and like, you know, moved my arm past my face and it was like headlights of lume right through the eyelids. Yeah, right. I was like, well, maybe this isn't a sleeping watch. Yeah, yeah. Really good piece and just super well made. Really fun. Yeah. What are you wearing today? I'm wearing the Aqualan 40th. I've been kind of jumping between the Nomos and the Doxa quite frequently for the last little while. And I'm going to take the Nomos down to New York this week. So I just figured I'd throw in something kind of fuss-free, no worry. It's my grab-and-go watch these days. It's either that or the CWN1. And I think I had this on my nightstand and the CWN1 was downstairs in the basement. So being the lazy man that I am, I just grabbed the Aqualand 40th. I just absolutely love this watch, especially in the summer. But it's just, I think it's become like one of my absolute favorite watches under $1,000. Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | It's so good. |
| James Sacy | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | It really is. It swings above its weight and it's, uh, you're right. It's a, it is a bit of a summer watch. So I'll be curious to see, you know, with both of us, I wear my Aqualands, uh, you know, a lot in the summer, but, um, tend to kind of put them to bed a little bit, um, as the weather gets cooler, but, uh, we'll see. |
| James Sacy | It's this time of year where like I had, I have it on that, you know, rippled rubber silicon strap. I, it's got to go into something more of a textile for the, for the fall feel. So, uh, I think a strap change will, will kind of set it up nicely for this season. |
| Jason Heaton | All right, well, time for the main topic. We've dawdled long enough here with our recaps and chit-chat and special guests. Let's move into our crew in a part six for 2025. James, you want to give the stock intro for this one? |
| James Sacy | Yeah, I always try to think like, how can I make this shorter? Because I know most people listening like you've already heard it. But if this is your first time ever, the normal way that we do Q&As is audio based. So you record it into the voicemail app on your phone, send it in, and then that becomes like on the paid side. So if you're a subscriber. Every now and then, ideally a lot in the fall and winter as we catch up, but it's supposed to be roughly once a month. We answer a bunch of these questions and it feels a little bit like a call-in show. You can hear the voices of people who listen, but also their surroundings. Sometimes it's a hike or waves crashing or birds, that sort of thing. There's been some really great ones for the last while. And the idea with the Slack crew in A was to flip that around and give people like a really low barrier way of dropping a ton of questions that we would just read and get to anytime we just needed an episode. so this one this episode's coming a little early we're just before wind up and and you know new york watch week and that sort of thing so we thought a good time to to grab another of these we probably have a couple left just from the number of questions uh but it's basically just text questions from the slack so if you want to try and get an inside eye on what's going on on the slack which is also part of the paid side of uh of tgn uh then this is kind of a nice uh introduction to you know kind of the questions and queries and and the tone of of the slack so I think that's probably my longest answer yet. So good work on that one, James. But yeah, why don't we jump into the first one, which is a question from Mill Time. And he asks, looking into the TGN community, especially the Slack channel, what's your most surprising insight? Jason, what do you think? You didn't offer any like additional, so it's kind of like wide open. What did you find kind of surprising, I guess maybe about the Slack or the Slack experience? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, yeah, specific to the Slack, I mean, one thing I remember when we were talking about launching any sort of a forum or online community outside of the podcast or in addition to the podcast, I remember approaching it with a little bit of trepidation, thinking like, how much involvement are we going to have to have? Will people expect you and me to... kind of be in there? Are we going to have to moderate? Is it going to be just, you know, a lot of people kind of asking us questions and things? And I think what has been such a pleasant surprise is how it's taken on a life of its own and exists, you know, outside of us. And I think it's become the self-sustaining organism. And I definitely want to not overlook the efforts of Jake and Chris, of course, our moderators who help a lot and keep things kind of on the straight and narrow, so to speak. But it is largely a self-sustaining organism. And this community of people kind of leads to my second point here. And that is just how incredibly civil and cordial and supportive everyone is in the TGN community. And that includes outside of Slack as well. I mean, the people that write in, the people that call in with Q&A questions, the people we meet at meetups. It's just... I guess there's just so much polarization and sort of disagreement these days that flares up in the world that the TGN group is like this island of restraint and support and respect and acceptance. I'm finding it so reassuring and just so encouraging every time I dip into the slack or every time I meet somebody from the crew in the wild, so to speak. yeah i think you know that probably doesn't come as a big surprise mill time i think you're you're a big part of that i know you and i have exchanged a lot just personally and privately um and i've appreciated your insights and you know some of your comments over the years um so you know i'm sure you feel the same about it but that's kind of my take on it how about you |
| James Sacy | Yeah, I mean, so I'll just read you what I wrote down because at this point you said most of it. I said the extent to which most people operate with the best intentions of the crew. Not always. I mean, it's not 100%, but most people are very easygoing and they're attempting to just kind of add value without trying to change the platform just for them. There is like an actual community feel rather than like... I don't know, the way I see a lot of operations on Reddit or even some of the great old forums in the watch space is more about like, I need this from you guys. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | But we see more investment into people caring about what the experience is going to be like than I ever kind of expected. I think that's like largely uncommon to at least my experience with the internet. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | And then the other thing I would say, and I think I've said this before to a certain extent, but like this is the number of people. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | Sure, it's only $5 a month, but I kind of expected the supporter side to be roughly the numbers we're at currently or that we've been around since we launched it. But I didn't expect the number of active kind of participating... even just reading only sort of users like lurkers. Yeah. Yeah, I thought we'd get 200 people and about 40 would be really active and that would be the kind of community. And it's just so much more vast than I expected. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, huge shout out to Chris and Jake because it just simply wouldn't... The idea that we didn't start by going, oh, we're going to need moderators. It's just so naive on our front, so... Yeah, just to have somebody even not like dealing with issues, but just making sure that people don't just experience one roadblock after another because they don't know how to use the platform or they haven't kept up with the evolution of the tone and that sort of thing. So it's been great, for sure. Thanks for that one, Miltime. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Next question is from 240KAR who wrote, everyone adores the one watch guy. I find it so cool when I hear someone say, my dad wore that blank every day, no matter what he was doing. It becomes associated with that person. Question. If you could pick one watch that you would like to be associated with you to those who know you, what would it be? James, which watch? I mean, I'm guessing it's your Explorer 2, but nowadays I think it might be your Pelagos 39. I'm not sure. Where are you at these days? |
| James Sacy | I think I like the vibe of the Explorer 2 even more than a dive watch. Yeah. I think there was a time in my life where I maybe identified a lot more as a diver. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | And, you know, now, you know, between young kids and thankfully Sarah got certified. So diving is not going away, but I just keep finding ways of kind of pausing it in my life, at least from it becoming like a practice. Yeah. If I wanted to go diving, I could find a way to go diving. I could go once or twice a year, probably without a big stretch. And I still love a dive watch for the functionality and the rest of it. But there is something that kind of better suits the way I actually move through the world about the Explorer 2. And I just have such a fondness for that one generation with the white dial. And I love the one that I have. And I've wore it on Baker. I've taken it all around the world at this point if Japan's far enough away. And that sort of thing. So yeah, that's kind of been the move for me. I think, I don't know that I would need to be known for one watch, but when I come across a photo of me doing something and I see that watch on my wrist, I go like, yeah, that's all right. No problem there for me. So how about you? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I mean, I think it's changed. I think, you know, for a while it was my Submariner. I mean, that was the watch I wore on so many adventures and just so many significant life events. And I don't wear it as much. I had a bit of an uptick this summer where I was wearing it for probably a few weeks straight, but I haven't worn it in a while. And I don't think this question really comes down to which watch you wear the most. But, you know, as you mentioned with your Explorer 2, I mean, you don't wear that one as often. But I guess if someone were to see a photo of me or associate me with a watch, it might be that Submariner. Or something like the vintage T-Graph, which I haven't worn in a very long time. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, that's what I was going to say for me. Like in my mind for you, that's the watch that you wear. Even if you don't. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and I think it's probably because I kind of agree with you, and I think it's because it represents a lot about the way I approach watches. I think it's a vintage piece, but a vintage piece that I have taken diving and that I still want to wear as it was intended to be worn. And the story behind it, you know, having gotten to know the original owner and that he bought it, you know, when he got certified and took it diving in, you know, lakes in northern Minnesota. So I think all of those elements as well as it's just an incredibly cool watch. Um, so there's that, but I, you know, I've said before that if I had to flee the house that was on fire and I just had any one of my watches on my wrist, that would be my one watch and I'd be perfectly happy. I mean, I'd be sad if everything else went up in smoke, but, um, you know, I like all my pieces and I think, you know, we experienced that through. our, uh, tournament bracket that we led off the year with this year where we kind of were whittling down all of our favorites and ended up with one. And that for me was my Tudor FXD. And I'd be very happy with that being the watch that's associated with me as well. Cause I have worn it on a lot of fun, fun events in the past couple of years since owning it. But, uh, yeah, yeah, I think, I think, I think the T graph, I think that sounds, that sounds about right. |
| James Sacy | I dig it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that's cool. |
| James Sacy | That's a fun question. Thanks very much for that one, 240 car. Next up, we've got one from Mark the Watchman who asks, will you ever do video podcasts and put them in the sub stack or on YouTube? Jason, I suppose this is a question more for me. Yeah. In some way. Yeah, probably not. Just because with Jason and I not living in the same place, it would mean like recording them over Zoom or at least facilitating some sort of a remote element. And I think if we were going to do a video product, it would be something additive. to the content level of the show. So the show already functions, I think, or at least I hope, quite well as an audio kind of option. And I don't know that offering it in video would really add a huge amount. You know, just two guys sitting at their desk talking. Don't get me wrong. There's a lot of podcasts that do operate that way. But I don't find that I'm watching them for that element of seeing the people. It's just maybe the delivery method of YouTube is ideal. And I could see adding the show as audio to YouTube, you know, in a scenario where we were kind of focusing on growing or thought that we were adding something to the again, like that the tech was in some way additive. Yeah, I think if we're going to do video, I would want it to be like another thing, whether it was like maybe maybe for next year, if we do a wind up Chicago or a time piece show. Maybe we do a documentary about that weekend. I've tried this twice, and I've learned that me doing it and then coming home and just having the files, I don't currently have the time. I mean, who knows? My employment could change. All those sorts of things are up in the air, and I would like to have the time if I could, but I don't have the time to just try something currently in my life. From a professional standpoint, I would say I'm probably at about 100%. of what's possible before I start taking things away from my family or, or, or my ability to rest a little bit. I would like to do video. It would make me very happy to have video. You know, I don't know if I was on the audience side, if what I would love is to see just a video version of what I was already listening to. I just don't like if we were, if Jason and I were in the same room and we could have a cool set and, and like I could hand him a watch that we're talking about, or we could have a guest in and they'd sit in this cool space. Like, yeah, I get that. That sounds awesome. Like, really, that sounds amazing. But, you know, some of the other podcasts I listen to in lieu of doing episodes like that, or sometimes in excess of doing episodes like that, whenever they go out on the road, whether it's for a comedy special or to take on a new experience, they shoot that and release it as just kind of a loose... sort of podcast documentary. And I think that's probably closer to what I would like to produce. I mean, those of you who followed my work long enough would know like the vlogs from SIHH and Baselworld back in, I think, 2017. And I enjoyed that kind of content. I didn't, you know, that time frame of making them and that kind of thing was kind of nuts. So I don't know that that's what I would jump into. But yeah, I would say that I've tested the waters now twice. And thank you to everybody who was on any of those episodes that have never really come to light. You know, the Vancouver episode, all the files for it, I leave it on my desk in the event that I suddenly have like a bolt of inspiration and feel like I absolutely have to do it. Um, but currently the, you know, just kind of the, the otherwise ways in the, you know, the other things kind of required in the day to day are keeping me from, from having that kind of time. And I look, I think in the future, if it was something that we were going to commit to, or that was going to be developed for the crew, of course, a group of people who pay, uh, for listening to it, then I, you know, I'd work with an editor. and have somebody help me with the show. Ideally, if it was like Jason and I doing something actually cool, you'd also hire a shooter. And I have more experience doing that with Hodinkee over the past year and working with Dave O'Hara on our video side. So, I mean, all of that is on the horizon of things that we want to do, but obviously the first thing that we want to do is, or the first priority is to keep the show kind of going and that sort of thing. So, complicated answer because... Yeah, I would like to. I would love to be in a world where Jason and I met once a week to do this show in the same cool room and build a whole set and think about how that would look and how it would be lit. All of that would be great, but it just isn't the scenario we're in. And I'm not sure that just filming the Zoom, especially for a highly edited episode like what we do, I'm just not sure that it would work in terms of being able to keep up with the production cycle and editing the video and preparing it and having it match up nicely with the audio and all that sort of stuff. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I think that's a good answer. And I think technology aside, I personally feel like in my experience with work, whether it's for bigger companies, small individuals, et cetera, when individuals kind of drift away too far from, I don't know, core competencies or interests, it can kind of lose its vibe. And I think something along the lines of what you're describing is a sort of a field recording or kind of one off standalone quote unquote video features, um, I think would be in keeping with, with what we're about. But I think to just record the, the podcast in a video sense, I just, I don't think it adds any value. And I, I, there's some, some that do a nice job with it that I've seen, but it's, it's not the, it's not the format that I consume my podcast. And I think most people kind of like to do it while they're driving or doing the dishes or falling asleep or whatever. And I think, you know, video is just a, a layer of complication that we don't need at this point. So. |
| James Sacy | but always looking to add value. And if you have a pitch for what you think would make a great video or some way to tell me that I'm overthinking this, let's talk about it. I'm open to these options. Hit me up on the Slack. And if you watched Listers, which is a recent... a recent sort of um uh final final note from me i think that's that would be in the spirit of what i'd like to deliver is something that kind of compelling if i could uh that's not so focused on what camera i used or how many lenses or this or that so yeah fun question mark apologies if it's not really the answer you or or a portion of the audience that wants videos looking for but i'm just not sure how we would make it work and still do a weekly show currently |
| Jason Heaton | All right, next up we've got a question from Matt M. who says, build a watch collection for yourselves, no budget limit, but you can only have one watch of any metal. Okay. So only one steel watch, one titanium, one gold, et cetera. I'm not sure how far to take this one, James. I mean, I think, you know, there are any number of materials out there. I suppose you could even go to aluminum. Oh, I didn't do aluminum. Yeah, fair. |
| James Sacy | All right, I can pick an aluminum. I came up with a few. Yeah, why don't we start with steel? |
| Jason Heaton | I kind of did a mix of watches I already own and love and ones that I don't in different metals that I have never owned or don't own. So with steel, this could be a surprising one, but of the steel watches I own, I could have gone Submariner, but I've got the same brand in a different metal. So I'm going to skip over that one and go with my Navitimer. I'm sticking with the Breitling Navitimer, my old one. I think a vintage one. I think, as we've discussed, I think titanium watches, I'm wearing them so often nowadays that when I put something steel back on, they feel heavy. And so this little 1954 Navitimer still is very comfortable. And steel is the way that watch was meant to be built. And it just feels right in that metal. So that's what I'm going with, vintage chronograph. Nice. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, good pick. Yeah, for steel, this is the hardest of the categories for me. you know because it could i'd be happy with a halio so i'd be thrilled to just do an aqualand uh the nomos world timer that i have now i really really really enjoy but i think deep down the truth is kind of like the answer we gave for 240 car it's the 16 570. Yeah. And that's just kind of the one for me as far as a steel watch. It's the right size. I like the bracelet. I like it on a NATO. I love the way it looks. It keeps incredible time. It really requires nothing from me. And there's very few scenarios where that watch doesn't suit the way that I exist. And because we're moving into yellow gold, white gold, platinum, et cetera, conceivably, yeah, I think that's the one. If you're going to have a single steel sport watch, there's a compelling argument to it being a Rolex, I think. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that's a good pick. And how about taste? I mean, look, I love my FXD. It's kind of the perfect titanium watch as is something like our CWC crew watch. But because I have Tudor in another category, I'm going with my 50 fathoms titanium. I think it's... especially the one I have, which is the 45 millimeter version. It's such a big watch that wearing it in titanium just makes it a really comfortable piece. And, uh, it's kind of a surprising choice. I think you expect a, you know, a big dive watch to be steel, especially a block pan. And the fact that it still is fairly light and wears well, I think is, uh, I want that watch in my collection. And I honestly think if that watch was steel, I would not wear it as much as I do because it just wouldn't be very comfortable. So that's where I'm going. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, I think that's fair. I think it makes a lot of sense. I think that's what I would have predicted for you just from the last year or so of talking about titanium watches a lot. I think you have a very similar level of fondness for both of these watches, but there's something legitimately even more special about the Blancpain, so I get that. Mine would be the Pelagos 39. I really hemmed and hawed between it and the CWN1. I think when push comes to shove, I like the Pelagos 39 for a broader range of reasons. I like the CWN1 for what it is and what we made and that sort of thing. But I think in this scenario, I'd want the Pelagos. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Good pick. Predictable. |
| James Sacy | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Kind of a perfect watch. Yeah. All right. Yellow gold. Oh boy. Yellow gold. Okay. I don't know. Were these watches called a 1680? Was the vintage yellow gold Submariner a 1680 or did it have a different number? I'm sure it did because I think those numbers stand for the metal. Regardless. Like the original, the first solid gold Sub? Yeah. That's what I want. i mean that that would be it i would find one and i would you know he says no budget so you know i gotta approach james lambden and have him find me one um i just think that's such a perfect perfect gold watch i think when i've had one of those on my wrist it's just like there's something just magical about them i think they're so great |
| James Sacy | Yeah, I mean, unless I'm crazy, it is a 1680 slash 8. |
| Jason Heaton | Okay. We're not rivet counters, as they say. |
| James Sacy | But look, you know, I get things wrong. So that's how it kind of hits me. Did you have a yellow gold pick? Yeah, my yellow gold, it's a bit of a deep cut for me, but I've written about it a couple of times. It's probably my favorite Patek, and it's the earliest of their dual time, the travel time watches, the 2597. specifically the Series 2, which has two hour hands, and you kind of advance with a little button, the second hour hand, or you can hide it, but just like what they had in the 5164. But this looks like a classic, you know, early 50s dress watch. I'm a big fan of these. These are very cool. I'll never own one, of course, but if we're just dreaming. Really, almost the rest of everything on this list I'm never going to own, but I'm just dreaming. 2597 Series 2, big fan. And if I could find one with a really cool gold bracelet, even better. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. I had a white gold pick, did you? I do, yes. I have a white gold pick. You feel free. GMT Master 2. I actually didn't have a yellow gold pick, but when you put me on the spot, I conjured up that gold Submariner. So I'm going to double Rolex here in gold. I'm going to do the GMT Master II in white gold. I wanted a Rolex in this collection, and I just love how it's kind of a stealth watch. I mean, I think, well, it isn't a stealth watch. I mean, everybody knows what it is, but... Um, you know, white gold, it passes as steel. That one has that kind of look as it looks like steel to the uninitiated and until you hand somebody this ingot and they feel how heavy it is. Um, and I just think that's, uh, it's such a neat sort of mix of this, you know, sort of historical pilots to a watch with, uh, with this precious metal. I think they look great. |
| James Sacy | Yeah. In keeping with this question, my white gold pick is a Lange 1. We actually just saw one on the Slack the other day, so shout out, Jeff. It's the Lange 1 101 029, the Lange 1 Luminous. So not a lumen, but luminous. So it's a Lange 1 with lume on the hands and the dial, and it's just one of my favorite nuts watches out there. Yeah. My yellow gold watch easily could have been a yellow gold Lange 1. I would love to say that someday I will achieve enough and find my way into a Lange 1, of which I'll be happy with almost any. They are just such darling, really solid, perfectly sized, special pieces of watchmaking. uh that i also think are like beautiful and distinctive and very unique in their appeal and their the dial layout and the rest of it but these ones with the with the uh with the luminous element are just so fun yeah well i've got a long on my in my collection too not in this not in white gold but uh yeah i mean it's uh i just feel like they do they do precious metals as good as anybody and i think that's uh that's a good pick yeah and there's just like this watch as well it's just it just i just think they are so cool because they're they're not overly shiny despite being a long you get that deep black dial and then you get some lume on the dial which which feels very me and and that sort of thing so maybe someday if i'm lucky uh but i doubt it but you know wear it in good health jeff that's a very very cool watch so You want to do platinum next, and then we'll go to the alternative, the sort of non-metals? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, sure. I actually have a silver watch, too. I'm going to sneak my silver in here because... Silver? Okay. It's the only one I know of. I mean, there are others, certainly, but the Black Bay 925. That's my tutor. |
| James Sacy | That would definitely be my pick for a silver watch. |
| Jason Heaton | They look so cool. I love the way silver ages. I just think it's so cool that Tudor took the Black Bay, which is such a popular and varied piece, and just spun it out in this unexpected material. |
| James Sacy | Anyway, silver. Just recently on the silver thing and on the 925 specifically, which is a Black Bay they made for a couple of years that the case, it was like this awesome taupe dial with a silver case. Yeah. And just very quickly on it, we recently did a Q&A where somebody asked about like watches we wished we had gotten or maybe not sold, like a, you know, a misconnection sort of watch. And and I didn't think of it until I was editing it. And I said, you know, I kind of wish I just bought that. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | Because that was the one where you go like, this is so weird and cool and different. Yeah. Like, I think that weirdly, if you if we stay long enough in this hobby. there will be a real sort of nerd run on 925s and the 18Ks because they just weren't made in that many numbers. They were very special versions of otherwise like, you know, largely made watches with the 58s. So yeah, I think the 925 58 is a very cool pair and a really good looking watch. Yeah. Nice. |
| Jason Heaton | But you asked about Platinum, and just quickly, I'm going Datagraph. I've so long been a Datagraph fan. For a while, this was my dream watch. I remember, you know, look, I'm looking at their website. I'm just trying to look here. I don't even see the price listed. I don't need to see the price if you have to ask. To quote Fast and Furious, more than you can afford, pal. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, right. But it's just such a beautiful piece. They are. Yeah, they're stunning. They're really, really good watches, yeah. I also have a huge softness for the Wellendorf bracelet. for the datagraph the very early one like oh and I when I realized you know and again I might be I might be extending my reach here so you know fair play but when I when I realized one of the things I like so much about this Nomos world timer was that the case very much reminds me of a long a case but in obviously in steel I was like maybe I need to find like is like does anybody make essentially like a seven link beads of rice but all polished and You know I found one. Yeah, yeah. I had to buy it from a site that doesn't deliver tomorrow, so eventually I'll have it. Maybe it will be cool, maybe it won't. We don't really know yet. I paid $60 to like Timu or AliExpress or one of those things. No clue when it'll get here, but it is a fully polished, like beads of rice, like very balby sort of beads of rice steel bracelet. with a 20-millimeter bar link for the NOMO. So we'll see. Maybe through $60 down the drain, but I'll take a shot in the dark. What's your platinum choice? My platinum? I actually thought we might have overlapped on this one, but I like your pick of a datagraph a lot. For me, it's the Breitling Avi 1953 Limited Edition, the navy blue dial, platinum case. |
| Unknown | Right on. |
| James Sacy | I just, you know, I thought it was one of the cooler ones when it came out. I love the idea of that watch in platinum is so kind of silly. If you'll allow, you know, some levity into this sort of avi, navitimer sort of vibe. So I'm sure it was $70,000 or something. When it came out, I don't really remember specifically, but I do remember thinking that's a pretty good looking watch. Steel and blue would have been fine, of course, but for the purposes of this question, it is a platinum case. So yeah, the 1953 re-edition in platinum from Breitling. |
| Jason Heaton | All right, quickly, let's jump through a couple others. I actually didn't do a ceramic pick. I did a carbon pick. What about you? Do you have a ceramic watch? |
| James Sacy | Yeah, I've got ceramic. I figure I needed a big watch, so we're going 50 Fathoms Chronograph, the Bathyscaphe Chrono. In ceramic, I remember being just very, very much in love with that watch. And it's very overbuilt NATO strap when it came out, you know, 2015 or whatever it was back at Baselworld. So that's the one I would go with. And there aren't so many ceramic watches that really speak to me. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. How about for, how about for carbon? Well, I mean, we're probably going to both go with the Doxa, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. What color way would you want? I got to go shark hunter. That, that original shark hunter just, it looks so stealthy and just so cool. I just, you know, I saw the, I guess it would be the white pearl version or whatever. And that's cool. I mean, they're all cool, but I think just the black on black on black is just, it's so nice. |
| James Sacy | Yeah. Yeah, the white pearl has been a fascination of mine and I do really like it. But in person, I think there's something more doxa about having that classic dial in that carbon case. It's like more it's weirder, even though it's more conventional. Yeah. The white pearl has it's almost like they checked one box too many. It does all its carbon and it's a loom dial. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | And and that sort of thing. So, yeah, I would also go go shark hunter. So that's a good one. But yeah, Matt M., thanks very much for that question. Not sure you planned on it being essentially an episode on its own. Next up, we've got one from Mike Sachs who says, algorithms and social media-based curation are increasingly influencing or corrupting, depending on your point of view, culture. Taste is becoming homogenous, which makes distinctive subcultures and communities like this one even more appealing. How do you both develop and maintain your taste in things like watches, music, style, books, etc. ? |
| Jason Heaton | well i i mean i think as he hinted in his in his uh in his question um communities like this one i think uh the tga community i get a whole i get a lot of my um influences just through slack and through q a stuff and and yeah kind of just just generally knowing you know the people in the community you know yourself included um i just think That is how my tastes develop. I mean, I can't even put my finger on it. I was trying to kind of, when I was reading this, I was trying to trace back, like, what have I watched recently or what have I read recently that came from, you know, kind of following the thread backwards to see where I first learned of it. And it's a little bit difficult, but I don't... I don't necessarily look at social media algorithms and things as an entirely negative thing because I do think that they have led me down some paths and presented me with some things that I wouldn't have known about that I quite like. For me, I'm not buying a whole lot these days other than the occasional piece of clothing or a book or something like that. Um, I don't really buy a lot of stuff for the house and things like that anymore. I'm pretty well established in that way, but I think, you know, a good sweater or a pair of pants or footwear, I get a lot of that through, through kind of social media suggestions for better, for worse. And I, I think in my case, I'm being optimistic about it, but I think it's, uh, it's pretty good, but my sense of style hasn't really changed. I think these are just further honing it or, you know, kind of just digging a little bit deeper, but. other than that it's it's tgn i mean i see you know we've got a book channel a film channel music stuff makers watches cars i mean all of that it really does a lot of it comes through through tgn slack and that is that is uh not an algorithm that's we we made that folks that's great |
| James Sacy | Awesome. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree. Definitely the Slack has become a channel of influence for me. I find that the influence, and maybe this is kind of like what you're saying, Jason, is like the influence element is good as long as you curate your influence so you know that they're going to speak to what you would want or be able to pull off. I don't spend any time on Instagram finding out about new bands, but if one of my brothers goes, you'll like this band, they're almost certainly going to be right. But that is influencing to a certain extent. It's just like micro, micro, super micro influencing, right? It's like if I go to a brewery and somebody's been there and they go like, oh, you'll like this IPA. And you go like, all right, super. It's just a little bit easier that way. So yeah, I agree. And then as far as watches, watches, I'm always trying to find an experience I haven't really had. Or when a different culture makes an experience like if the Japanese do something that's more Swiss or the Swiss do something that's more Japanese, which I think just ups the interest level. And then I think the great thing about watches is a lot of them have lasted from the last 50 years. And there's always a chance to learn, maybe start with something like an Aqualand and then delve down into some weirdo model that was only made for a year or two. And that's the one that maybe you really like. Or maybe just your love of the Aqualand or obscure Rolex model or a Tudor Aeronaut or whatever it is, is derived from the appreciation for the populist version and then finding this one that feels like it has more personality. I agree that the homogenous element can be difficult, especially when you go somewhere and you see kind of the same watches all the time. But at the same point, you have to take in the audience and who's dealing. And really the weirdness often is like a late stage development. You know, an appreciation for the outliers of the oddballs and that sort of thing. So it can be difficult. And I think if you're seeing someone who's just started their Instagram channel a year ago and they're talking about a watch that was... full hype four months ago, you go like, well, yeah, that makes sense. But then you see someone who's been collecting for 30 years and when they get a chance to talk in a magazine or that sort of thing, you see something you've never really seen before or something that six years ago people hated or didn't appreciate. Maybe not hated is wrong. Didn't appreciate, had no love for. And I think that's kind of more exciting. It's more exciting to see where... were the people who have already developed that taste. And that's where I think influencing is like very valuable. You know, we used to call it curation, right? Right. And I think there's something to be said for kind of both sides of that coin. But I agree that like an algorithmic level, I get served a lot of... guys who like in four or five years, if they stick with it, will be doing really good work on Instagram or whatever comes next. But right now their takes are kind of rough or they're rehashing things that have been said 200 times that probably don't have to be said again and that sort of thing. So yeah, there's a hype cycle and there's curation and there's influencing and then there's just kind of like noise. And it can sometimes be hard to filter for all of those elements and find something that you're looking for. That's why it just takes time to find the voices or communities that do feel like they reflect that level of filtering for you. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. Thanks for that interesting question, Mike Sachs. Next one up, we have one from Dave D who says, what characteristic do you look for in a watch that you also look for in a car? That's a great question. It is. I mean, it's super easy. I mean, in my case, it was like, you know, I just, I just feel like it's, um, a car that can, it's the gotta thing, right? The acronym, do anything. Yeah. Just, um, something not precious that's easy to use and maintain and, and, you know, you don't have to kind of worry about taking it anywhere. That, that, that's my, my short answer. I mean, I think that's kind of the ethos by which I live. And I think, you know, my, my watches and largely my, well, certainly my vehicles, maybe not as much my watches, but, uh, that's, that's, that's, uh, that's the overlap for me. I'm guessing you're similar, right? |
| James Sacy | Yeah, for a certain element. I mean, like I think comfort is important, like that eye fit. Yeah. You know, that I've sat in cars that I'm too big for and that sort of thing. Visibility, we'll call it legibility, also pretty important. And I think that sort of thing is kind of how I see it. But yeah, I mean, it's mostly like, I just like a vehicle that's very useful and I like a watch that's very useful. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | All right. Cool question, Dave D. Thank you so much for that. Next up, we've got a question from one of the best names ever, Andy Dangerous. What's your take on pronouncing words borrowed from other languages? I personally use the pizza rule where we say pizza versus pizza. Am I saying pizza right, Jason? I don't know that pronunciation. He says pizza, P-I-H, you know, like a phonetic spelling, P-I-H dash Z-A-H. I don't know that pronunciation of pizza. I just know pizza. Maybe I've heard it where the T isn't. Hit as hard as pizza. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | But yeah, you know, he's saying, you know, you can order a slice without sounding like you're trying to say it's me, Mario. His pet peeve is mixing pronunciation rules like pronouncing Zin the correct way, like the pizza rule, but pronouncing Glashutte or where pizza would, you know, if you're within his rule, it'd be Glashutte or Glashutte. The French is an impossibility, so I'll leave JLC as an exercise for Jason and I. Yeah, I mean, I think if you've listened to any extent of the show, I'm really fluid on this front. I used to work with someone who was of Italian descent, and anytime you hit an Italian word, it would get the spice, a little color. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | You know, you'd be talking to me like, oh, what do you think of the new Ferrari? And that got under my skin. Yeah. And like, look, you got to be your own person. You know, it doesn't have to be a thing, but it just, it didn't really suit me. You know, but at the same time with the French thing, yeah, if I hear somebody, I'd prefer someone calls it JLC than Jaeger. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | Right? Yeah. But yeah, and then as far as Zen versus Sin, I guess just calling it Sin feels weird. but Glashuta has always been kind of the poorly pronounced version of the correct pronunciation. Maybe that's kind of my zone, is I'll try to go with the correct pronunciation, I just won't say it right. I won't make a heavy modification in some direction. Do you feel very strongly about this in any way, Jason? |
| Jason Heaton | I don't feel strongly about it. I mean, I think, you know, I took, I took French a long time ago and German less long ago. And I, I, you know, I, I try to kind of approximate, um, as best I can, but there's a certain point at which I feel a little bit ridiculous trying to sort of affect, uh, you know, getting, get a little too French, um, and, and just end up insulting native French speakers. So the, you know, it just comes across sounding a bit pretentious. And so, um, JLC is the easy way out or I'll. say the name once and then you know kind of hide after saying it um german i'm a little more comfortable with i think you know um having taken it more recently and i think the pronunciation sounds a little better coming out of my mouth but uh yeah i mean i think i think Look, whether it's watches or cars or anything in today's world or ordering food at a Mediterranean restaurant or whatever, I think we all just do our best and try to be forgiving when it comes to people that make some attempt and maybe fail. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, I don't disagree. Like, I will do Porsche. Yeah. But in a different scenario, I will say Ibiza if I had to say the name. Oh, yeah. So I'm really not that militant in any direction. |
| Cole Pennington | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | But some of it where it's like, oh, well, the locals would call it Hawaii. And you go, okay. |
| Unknown | Right. Fine. |
| James Sacy | You're not wrong. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a tough one, Andy. And I think it's probably toughest for people who are most militant about it because... There's a spectrum of how people are going to hit so many words now with just the level of overlap in English, right? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, that was a fun one. We've got one up here from Nick slash Southern Watch on Slack. It says, what are some features in older cars that you miss and would like to see make a comeback? I personally like the AC vent under the steering wheel and the foot-controlled high-beam switch. Boy, that's a real throwback, that one. I don't think I've ever had a car with that. |
| James Sacy | I know of it, like the foot high-beam, but I don't think I've ever owned a car with it. Jensen Interceptor had a foot high beam. That's cool. Cool car. Good name. Yeah. All right. What do you think here? Oh, man. Well, going off Interceptor, good names. Oh, yeah. Right. Good colors. Cars all have dumb names now. Or they're just a number. And don't get me wrong. We can do number. Fine. The SR71 was also the Blackbird. And I think car names used to be cooler. Yeah. Car brand names used to be cooler as well. But yeah, I mean, I miss manual transmissions, at least as an option on more vehicles, especially on entry-level vehicles where they were cheaper than the automatic and they made the vehicle more interesting than it was going to be for the dollar otherwise. Yeah. Big greenhouses. You remember how much glass cars used to have before they had to be safe? Yeah, yeah. Used to be able to see everywhere. Now you're riding in bathtubs. Yeah, I miss big greenhouses. You drive a modern, some modern cars today feel like I'm driving with a hoodie on. Yeah, right. You know, can't see anything. I miss graphics packages. You know, like Alpina. Yeah. Graphics packages. Toyota. Yeah, yeah, of course. Cool TRD or Evo packages. Like, I love that. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Sacy | Homologation specials. I feel like we don't get it. We saw it. And look, this is where the business case stands. We saw it with the GR Corollas and Yaris. But these cars where they go, we want to race in this series to promote enthusiast value. But to do it, we have to make a certain number for the road. Yeah. That's never not been cool. Yeah. That's never, the whole brands were propped up on this concept, right? Yeah. And then in another way that's cool, but like a different type of cool, I would say collaboration models. Like, why isn't there still an Eddie Bauer Ford Explorer? |
| Unknown | Oh, yeah. Yeah, right. |
| James Sacy | L.L. Bean, Subaru. There you go. L.L. Bean, Subaru. If you guys remember a few years back, Filson did like a really high-end Jeep Wrangler where they worked with a coach builder and they retrofitted a bunch of stuff. Or even if it's not a collaboration model, I want like off-book or like off-brand book options. If you buy a Land Rover, you can go to Overfinch and get a whole shooting picnic set for the back of your Land Rover. Why isn't there a bunch of Patagonia options for your Subaru? Yeah, right. You know, we've built a roof mounted this or that and it comes out of the factory and it's like this. And don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some brands that are kind of playing with this sort of stuff, but it feels like something that would really start to work these days. You know, like Nautica Mercury Voyagers and stuff like that. Give me something that's a little bit more interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Exactly. Real Corinthian leather. Well, I mean, look, my most modern car is a 1993. I mean, my other one is a 76. So, you know, I don't miss this stuff. I actually get to get to use it like roll up windows and the flip up vents. The Series 3 has a choke. They both have stick shifts. Front quarter windows. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | The front quarter windows are actually one that I had on my list here because I had my first car was a Volkswagen Rabbit and it had those flip open vent windows in the front. It was such a great idea. It was such a nice little feature. They went away, certainly. Then I had a Rabbit GTI that was an 83. It had a crank open sunroof, which I thought was great, too. Look, there's nothing wrong with power stuff. I like roll-up windows, too. There's nothing wrong with power windows and power sunroofs. there was just something quaint and kind of, I love the mechanical nature of cars. And I feel like we're getting further and further away from that. And I think, you know, the crank open sunroof was just this pleasure to kind of reach up and pull down this handle and just kind of spin it around and watch the thing open. It was, it was just a lot of fun. Yeah, for sure. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, solid list there for you, Nick. Thanks very much for that question. And let's close out with one from Christopher Alsop, who says, do either of you do a lot of camping? And what is your favorite gear? I know James spends time at his cottage, but do you all prefer cottages, tents, overlanding in the Defender? Interested to hear your thoughts. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, timely question for me. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, freaks out. I was just going to say, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I mean, having just gotten back from the second of two camping trips this year, I mean, I think it's fresh in my mind. And the funny question about overlanding versus tents, I mentioned that we thought we were going to be sleeping in the Defender and had to rent a tent, which was fine. It all turned out well. I guess, yeah, as I'm getting a little older, like it's kind of nice to, you know, just climb in and out of the Defender rather than sleep on the ground. But I slept very comfortably this past week and I have nothing against tents. It's nice and airy and you get a good view of the sky sometimes. My gear, I don't really go for a lot of new gear. Every time I go camping, I pull out the same plastic bin out of the basement and it's got all my stuff ready to go. I was just remarking on this trip that one of my favorite pieces of gear is this old Primus camp stove that I have. I don't even know what the name of it is. I got it when I worked at REI and it was in the scratch and dent sale. And it's just the simplest little thing and it fires up every time. And I've had it up on Longs Peak in Colorado and traveled with it and camped many times with it. And it's just great. And it just works. So I don't feel the need to upgrade. Propane lanterns, aluminum camp dishes. I kind of like the old stuff, actually. I really only upgrade if I'm... looking for something to replace something that that just doesn't function well like you know something that's supposed to be waterproof that isn't or if you need something lighter weight for backpacking sure yeah my favorite gear is all the old stuff that's just kind of the favorite thing that kind of you have this muscle memory for that when you pull it out you can just use it Do you have any favorite stuff that you take to the cottage? |
| James Sacy | Oh, absolutely. I mean, we used to camp a lot more before the cottage was ready. Like when we were going up and just working on the cottage, we were sleeping in it. So we were in a tent most of the summer. And when we bought our most recent tent, we would put it in the front yard of our house in the west end of Toronto and camp in it with the girls. Like if we couldn't get away for that weekend or if they just, you know, just wanted them to get used to the tent. I love that idea. Urban camping. Yeah. And, you know, our neighbors definitely thought we were nuts. Look, I mean, I think for me, camping has really come down to like a buy once, cry once, having proven itself. Yeah. So I don't buy a lot of camping gear, but if you needed to go camping this weekend or if every now and then one of my brothers will be like, hey. I want to go out with some friends or I got invited. I need a bag and I need a pad and a few other things to go. It's all at the cottage. Just grab it. It's all basically color-coded. We bought Therm-a-Rest Neo Air stuff a few years back, and it's awesome. Just these insanely warm sleeping pads. I can't suggest them enough. If we're just camping in the summer, we've got like a nice double... you know, like a bigger mattress for two people blow up sort of scenario that we'll use in the larger tent. And anything I've bought from Snow Peak, give me an excuse to use it in the woods, whether it's with a whiskey in the evening or a nice steaming cup of coffee in the morning. I've got a couple of their mugs. We've got their titanium sort of flask wine bottle thing. Yeah, I've got I've got a handful of that stuff. I love just the excuse to use it. As far as a stove goes, my favorite is the one I bought years ago. It's called an Optimus Crux, and it's just this little tiny thing. I think it's like the ideal thing to make coffee in that isn't like a jet boil, if you want just more of an old-school sort of vibe. A little tiny stove, packs down to nothing, takes up no room in a bag or in a Tupperware that you're going to throw in the back of the car to go camping. And then as far as tents, like several years ago, man, Jason, you'd have to remember when... 17 18 maybe you gave me an alps mountaineering ghost oh yeah uh which is like a snow tent yeah and we've used that a ton it's perfect for two people um i would call it one really in reality it's like one and a half people you'd have to be good buddies and or partners with your with your tent mate but it's got two big wings that you can put gear in and i mean that on top of a nice blank like ground blanket i've got an awesome one from yeti that i'll put in the show notes um You can put all your gear and your boots and everything outside and you get in there with a couple of sleeping pads and you're going to be real comfy, whether it's snow or otherwise. My daughters have slept in it. It's a great system. And I like that one enough that when it was time to buy, you know, more like a four to six person tent, like for the whole fam, I bought another Alps Mountaineering and I've been super happy with it. It takes a beating. A bunch of people who have used it have no experience what they're doing. And I don't know that I want to hand an $800 expensive tent or $1,000 backpacking tent to people who are just going to put it up in a field that might be full of twigs and the rest of it. I've had to repair this tent a couple times. It's great. I really like it. It goes up in a flash. It dries out really quickly. It's the right size. It's a nice, simple tent. Yeah. That's made nicely and packs down nice and small. But yeah, I'm definitely at a point where, I mean, look, give me the excuse and we'll get there. But I don't really feel like I need any camping equipment. Right. Especially for either camping, you know, essentially from the proximity of the cottage or from a car. If I was going to go back to the West Coast and live out there and do more, like, you know, backpacking, I would switch to a different tent. Something a little lighter, a little smaller, a little meant for one or... two people. Um, but other than that, yeah, pretty, pretty locked in on the gear. I'm super happy with that stuff. It is one of those worlds where if you spend the money, typically you'll get the longevity out of the product. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And I think, you know, as long as I've been camping, I mean, I still find every trip, I find something else that I wish I had. And so I, especially this last trip, we, we, we started making notes of like what to take next time. And you know, these little things like apparently, yeah, a tent, yeah. A rubber spatula for getting every last bit out of a pan, cleaning things up nicely. paracord or a clothesline of some sort to hang wet stuff. A little thing of hot sauce or chili flakes, throw that in the kit just to always have. It's little things like that. It's an iterative thing, camping or evolutionary. You continue to hone your technique and your gear. Just take notes and you'll dial it in. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, I've got a Sawyer water system I don't use enough. I've got one of those. We use it a ton at the cottage because it's so handy, but it's like a bag that you fill with water, and then there's a foot pump, and you can spray it, whether you want to clean dishes or that sort of thing. So we've been using that for years, and the brand is escaping me at the moment. I apologize. I will put it in the show notes. But we've had it for so long that I've never... I saw it on Venture four wheel drive. You know, Chris had it and we're like, oh, we could use that at the cottage. That would be great. And we got one and then it just has never let us down. So you forget what the brand is. Sarah would remember if she was in the same room. But yeah, no, I mean, there's the quality of the camping gear these days is great. But I agree as far as like really refining your kit, whether it's spices or a spatula or that sort of thing. Yeah, that you got to go out in the field and actually camp and then you'll realize the stuff you forgot for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | All right, Christopher, thanks for that question. Yeah, thanks to everybody. That was a good crop of questions again, and we've got a long list to go. So we'll keep chipping away at these into the end of the year and probably bleed over into 2026 at this rate. |
| James Sacy | Yeah, absolutely. Big shout out to Christopher, Nick, Andy, dangerous, Dave D, Mike, Matt, Mark the Watchman, 240 Car, and Mill Time for your questions. That's awesome. And look, we've run a little bit longer than we planned. A couple of those questions really got us chatting. Uh, so why don't we dive into some final notes? Sure. You want to go first? Sure. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Um, I've been, I mentioned on, on this long drive, uh, had AirPods in, uh, with noise canceling on. And I was listening to an audio book, um, that I have borrowed that I've been wanting to read for some time. And it's by Melissa are not read. She's a, might be well known to some of you. Um, she's a woman mountaineer. Um, she worked for many years with, uh, Rainier mountain guides out in, uh, on the Seattle area. And, um, She is a very accomplished mountaineer. She's summited Everest, I'm going to get this wrong, five or six times, also without oxygen. And she has led a very interesting life. And this is a bit of a memoir or an autobiography of hers about kind of her background and her... ascent, so to speak, through the mountaineering world, as well as kind of a difficult past that she had, kind of a difficult upbringing with her parents, kind of the struggles of being an accomplished woman in what's admittedly sort of a male-dominated world in the mountaineering space. Some familiar names come up. She talks about in not such glowing terms, but Ed Visters and Dave Hahn and kind of some experiences with those two and some good experiences with Uli Steck and some others and her relationships with the Sherpas that she met while she was working in Nepal and just kind of her life and her story. And I'm not quite done with it. I'm about two thirds or maybe three quarters of the way through and I'll be finishing it shortly here. Kind of on a dog walk yet to come. But it's a really good book. And it's well written. And the audiobook version is one that she's actually narrating. And I'm enjoying it quite a bit. So check it out. It's called Enough by Melissa Arnott Reid. |
| James Sacy | That's great. Yeah, that sounds like an awesome recommendation. I'm going to definitely add that to the list. I'm still deep into the Terminal List series. |
| Unknown | Oh, yeah. |
| James Sacy | I'm maybe, I don't know, 15% or 20% into the fourth book now. And just kind of cranking along and really enjoying those. But... Yeah, mine this week is just another one of these products where occasionally I come across one where the price, when you get it in your hands, you're like, this feels even better than I thought I'd spend 30 bucks on or whatever. And for kind of travel around the world, I do find that we're in a scenario, or at least I'm personally in a scenario where I'm carrying more paperwork. Some could be for my family, some could be for work, some could be for, you know, traveling to certain countries and that sort of thing. So I wanted to have sort of like a centralized spot that I could keep that paperwork. And I know you're thinking like, oh, a duo tang or that sort of thing. But like I travel fairly light and every kind of piece of the kit. is kind of considered so i went down a bit of a rabbit hole on like document holders or or like pouches essentially and uh some of you and i think actually i've got this recommendation or at least i remembered this recommendation from the slack so i can't give anyone credit but i do think we had a chat about these on the slack like more than a year ago And I ended up buying one of these things. It's called a Magpul Daka, which they make a bunch of these zippered pouches. Maybe even, Jason, maybe you talked about this a couple years ago. I don't remember. But I have a memory of some sort, an incomplete memory. But they make a windowed version. It's called a Magpul Daka windowed pouch. And it's just like a really nicely made, super beefy, sort of water-resistant tactical bag with a zipper on the top, like a pencil case, essentially. Yeah. but fully evolved. And you look at some of the stuff that was on Amazon that was like $18, $19, $20, $25, and then this was $35. And I got it in the other day. It's got a little clip points for carabiners at either end so I could clip an air tag to it. And for some of these documents and other paperwork and that sort of thing, this is what will hold things like my carnet for traveling to certain countries for my camera equipment and receipts and things like that if I want to travel with a watch. I'm just really impressed by it. It came in a couple different... things and like look Magpul's known for making really high quality gear so I don't know necessarily why I was impressed but everybody on YouTube was right like this just feels like a really nice kind of high quality thing it's a little bit overkill maybe this could also be a Ziploc I think you'd be fine in that world I intentionally wanted something kind of the cry once buy once sort of scenario and yeah I'm pretty happy with it I've had it for a couple of days I'll put it to use for its first time in about not quite 12 hours All right. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, yeah, that sounds great. Looks pretty cool. And I'll be curious to see how it works out for you in 12 hours when you head off to New York City. |
| James Sacy | I think it'll hold my passport and some papers just fine. But hey, as always, thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode, or even consider supporting the show directly, maybe even grab yourself a new TGN sign NATO, please visit thegraynato.com. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazar via the Free Music Archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from Confucius, who said, The man who asks a question is a fool for a minute. The man who does not ask is a fool for life. |