The Grey NATO – 346 – What Community Means To Watches [Live From The Toronto Timepiece Show]
Published on Thu, 25 Sep 2025 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
In this live episode of The Grey NATO (TGN) podcast recorded at the Toronto Timepiece Show, hosts James Stacey and Jason Heaton discuss the importance of community in the watch world. The episode features a potluck format with several guests including Jason Hutton (Toronto Timepiece Show organizer), Bradley Taylor (independent watchmaker), Mitchell Wine (Marathon Watch CEO), Robert Jan Broer (Fratello Watches founder), Jason Gallop (Roldorf & Co founder), and Kenneth Lamb (Arkin Watches). Each guest shares their perspective on how community has shaped their experiences in the watch industry, from organizing events to creating watches and building media platforms. The conversation explores how digital communities have evolved into real-world connections, the value of knowledge sharing among enthusiasts, and how watch passion often leads to connections beyond just timepieces. The episode concludes with a Q&A session where the hosts discuss their influence as watch commentators, their broader interests beyond watches, and their diving experiences.
Links
Transcript
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| James Stacey | Hey everyone, James and Jason here for a quick pre-intro. Today's episode is a live recording of the show we did at the Toronto Timepiece Show. If you listened to last year's show from the same event, then you'll know the potluck format. We have a great stack of incredible guests and some solid Q&A to close out the recording. A big thanks to everyone who came out to the show and for those who are willing to jump up on stage and chat with us. It was an absolute blast. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it sure was. It was a really fun time and great to see everybody. And before we kind of jump into the live recording, we just had a few people we want to shout out and give thanks to individually. And, you know, first of all, everything kicked off last week with our buddies Ken Lamb and Tom Place, who... flew and drove in from far-flung places, one a little further than others. We want to thank Ken for flying over from the UK and hanging out and Tom and his lovely wife Allison who came and spent some time with us both at your place late into the evening and then at the show and a few other evenings. We also want to thank James, your mom, Betty Ann Stacey. Big shout out to her. Yeah, it was a family event on Saturday, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Yeah, your kids came and Sarah came and, you know, I hope they enjoyed themselves. That was really fun to see them there. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, and I would also add a special thank you to everyone who kind of was cool around my kids. I think if you've listened to the show for a long time, I do kind of shelter them from the internet. I don't share their names, I don't share their photos, that sort of thing, but people were so warm and kind. And my youngest daughter was handing out stickers, so I hope if you wanted a sticker, she offered. Yeah. My guess is she probably did feel like someone who's about to get played off at the Oscars here. But of course, I haven't won an award. Just just concerned about being played off. Tom Clements for for the excellent hangout and the lathe table whiskey. Doc Parsons, Doc from the Slack, showed up from a great distance and brought some incredible gifts for us, which is unnecessary, but deeply, deeply appreciated. Yeah, that was amazing. And then, look, let's be clear. There's two groups that are largely responsible for making the big moments of this weekend possible. And the first one would be Jason Hutton for putting on the Toronto Timepiece show and including TGN. And that includes, you know, Jason and I got to be part of the award show on Saturday night. We got to do the live episode on Saturday. I was able to get passes for my family and all that kind of stuff. So a big thank you to Jason. And then, of course, like Jason Heaton and I run into the Jason problem frequently these days. Jason Heaton and I just could not be more thankful for our friendship and connection with Marathon. Martin, Mitchell, Harrison, the whole team, the party was better than I expected, went even smoother than I expected. It was a really strong repeat of the year before, and we just simply wouldn't be able to do stuff like that. without partners like these guys and the fact that they make everything so easy that everything's so equitable that it's something that we can really understand from a business standpoint and we already know what the execution will be like just makes it so much less of a stress point to be able to to invite 100 plus people from our world uh in Toronto when when they're in Toronto and and that sort of thing so it just it just meant a lot and a huge shout out to the the marathon team for that |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and apologies to those that lingered till the very end because James and I slipped away. We sort of sneaked out. We were both pretty fried by whatever time that was, 11.45 when we finally left. |
| James Stacey | It was a little after midnight when we got home and I had a very early morning volleyball tryout for my daughter. So I apologize that we couldn't have burnt the midnight oil. That's one of the pluses of occasionally being able to do these on a Saturday. But the Sunday and being able to close out the show was a treat. |
| Jason Heaton | We're getting dangerously close to kind of the reputation of the Vanity Fair after Oscars party. I think it's become the place to be on the final night of the show. |
| James Stacey | Next year we'll have some paparazzi for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, exactly right. Before we jump into the episode, we also just want to give a little shout out and thanks. just an acknowledgement to the other folks that we were able to run into. You know, it was great to catch up with, with Vijay and Josh and the team from, from Oris. Jason Gallop came out from Vancouver and of course he's on the show. You'll hear him shortly here, but always good to see him. Guy and Jem spent a lot of time with them from Elliott Brown, and we've got some potentially fun stuff cooking with those guys, and they're just always fun to see. Guy has some great stories. We mentioned Tom Clements spent a lot of time in his booth. He's got some cool new watches. Peter from Jack Mason, really fun guy to meet. I got to meet him, and the watches are great. Matt from Aries we got to hang out, and of course, if you're familiar with his brand, he's got some cool stuff, and it was really fun to chat with him a bit. the folks from pollen are fun uh they came over from from scotland uh huey and and the team from rze and and just so many more people i mean we couldn't list them all and apologies for for not including you if we bumped into you or had a chat but uh it was just great and then of course all the the great um tgn crew that that were there representing in the orange hats and some t-shirts and and uh crew watches uh it was just great to get a photo with you and hang out and chat and maybe have a beer or a coffee or whatever. |
| James Stacey | So just a really, really great time. Yeah, it was a weekend packed full of friends and a lot of fun. And I think we've said as much of the thank yous as we can fit into a few minutes here. I know what you guys are all here for, which is the live recording. So let's get to it. Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks so much for coming to a live episode of The Graynado. It's really a treat to see so many people, so many friendly faces, so many people we recognize from last year's episode. If you were at last year's episode, this is an entirely different room. We really feel like I should be presenting, you know, the winner of some musical talent award or something like that to really make use of this space. But yeah, thank you so much for coming. We've got a really fun sort of show planned. If you came to last year's episode, we call it a potluck. We're just calling up friends to chit-chat about a sort of roaming topic. This year it's going to focus largely on what community means to watches, and we've got a number of perspectives, and we might even pull some people from the crowd. And if you come across a question during the chat, either for Jason and I or for one of our guests, keep it in your memory because the last quarter of the show or so will be for you guys on these mics down here to do some Q&A. So it should be a good time. Again, if you were here last year, we have a special guest to kick off the show. My mom, Betty Ann, is going to come up and do the intro. |
| Betty Ann Stacey | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear and most certainly watches. This episode is 346 and it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. |
| James Stacey | All right. Thank you so much, Mum. That is just as thrilling as it was last year. That's a real treat for me. I know if you guys listen to a lot of shows, what that means. Look, we're going to kick it off pretty quickly here, but we obviously have to do something like a wrist check to have some fun. It is a watch show after all, and Jason isn't even double-wristing. He's doing something new and evolved. So, Jason, what is on all of the wrists today? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, where do I start here? I'm representing three of the brands that are here today. I've got an Arkin Alterum on this wrist. It's actually your watch, so I stole it out of your watch box this morning on the way here. And then on the inside of this wrist, I'm wearing the new Paul and Mara, the dive watch. which I had a little bit of a hand in in the creation and the launch campaign for that. So I'm proud to wear that. And you should check those out here at the show. And then on this wrist is possibly coming home with me. This belongs to our stuntman friend back there, Tom Place. At least it did. It's the Zinn 144 with a Porsche design rolled steel bracelet on it. So three fun, very different watches and just a lot of fun to wear. For sure. And you're wearing something new as well. |
| James Stacey | I am, yeah. I've got my new Nomos Worldtimer, the Club Sport Neomatic on in the Glacier colorway, which I like very much. I was wearing it on a metal mesh bracelet, but you and Tom kind of... It chastised me to no extent that it was better on leather, so I swapped it out. But, yeah, I mean, looking at your wrist especially, I think they really kind of highlight what we're chatting about today with sort of community. And, you know, sometimes community is a really good thing, and I think that's largely what we'll focus on. Other times it's going to cost you a lot of money because you might buy a watch because you really like it. And if you haven't seen the Mara Diver, it is – really cool i really like the blue one and you might end up buying a watch from uh from a buddy just because you know he ended up at the kitchen table together and that's how these things sometimes go whiskey may or may not have hit us that's neither here nor there right uh let's call up our first guest again if you listen to last year's episode this will be no surprise he is the man that put all of this together put us in this great room brought all these brands to toronto jason hutton come on up So look, man, you are now the second year of the Toronto show. Everything that you do seems to be growing at an incredible rate, which is just very exciting for us. And I think if you're a Toronto or Ontario local, maybe even New York, it's not that far from a lot of different places. And we've got lots of people who came in from quite some distance. I think it's just exciting to see it grow. And for me, the footnote, the sort of bedrock of it is community. It's this idea of... You'll see your friends here. You'll make some new friends. You get to go to, you know, hopefully cool podcast tapings. And it's yet to be seen, but we're working on it. And that sort of thing. So what does community mean to, you know, getting into the watch show sort of business? |
| Jason Hutton | You know, when I originally put the show together, that was always a big part of the focus. To me, I think the watch community, the watch enthusiast community, it's amazing. You get to connect with people almost on an instantaneous basis. And it's truly global. Like, it transcends a lot of countries, a lot of cultures. My goal with the Toronto show, obviously, when I first started it, was just to, you know, to make it happen. But this year, I feel like it's really grown to a point where we're connecting more people in a more meaningful way. There's so many amazing brands who are here this year with the Toronto show, and they have been very supportive of our other shows as well in Vancouver. And we have another one coming in Montreal as well at the end of May in 2026. I don't know if that's it or not. Oh, okay. We have a great new venue there. But to me, community is really just about having that connection and that opportunity to bond with other people. And you had mentioned earlier about when you go to these shows or these events and you see people and your friends and you make new friends, that's a very meaningful part for me personally. I love going to visit other shows in different parts of the world and you get to see clients, friends, other collectors, and you see these people regularly when you're in the circuit. And it's a really rewarding and amazing experience. So I love it. |
| Jason Heaton | I'd love to ask, I'd love to make this question for all of our guests that are going to come up here. And, you know, we often ask people that have been on the show, what was your entree to watches? How did you get into watches? But I'd love to know, how did you get into, do you remember your first experience with a watch community event, whether it was like a local meetup or something? |
| Jason Hutton | You know, I think probably one, like a lot of people, I think one of my first watch meetup events, other than like sitting down with a couple of guys having a beer or something, nerding out over watches was I went to one of the Red Bar events. And this was a lot of people. I mean, they're a great organization across the world. There's many that happen now. So they're all kind of different scales, but I just, that's what I remember as being the first. There might've been something else, but the Red Bar one is the one I remember. |
| Jason Heaton | And it's pretty amazing, right? You kind of find your people. Absolutely. It's just everybody has a deep kind of nerd side to them. And it's always fun when you find somebody else that shares that. |
| Jason Hutton | It is. And this is what I love about the shows. There's, you know, today we're expecting probably about 3,000 people through the doors, I would guess, based on the size. And, you know, everybody is all nerding out over the watches. And you don't feel alone. You feel together. And everyone is excited to be here. So it's a really beautiful thing. |
| James Stacey | And we had you on the show just recently to talk largely about this show coming up. And now that you're into the big day on Saturday, and I assume you've gotten, you know, minutes of sleep over the last month. How are you kind of feeling about the evolution, getting to see everything actually take place, see people coming through the door? There has to be a... a reward to that, right? |
| Jason Hutton | That has to feel good. There is. I find it very fulfilling when you see people come in and the enjoyment and the atmosphere that's created. And to know you had a hand in doing that is a very fulfilling thing for me. And I feel very grateful, actually, when that happens. And I get to witness that. Now in different parts of the world, when I go traveling, it's not uncommon. Someone will come up to me and recognize me, either from the videos or the, hey, I listened to you on the Grey NATO or another podcast or somewhere else. And when someone comes up and recognizes you for what you're doing and just says how much they appreciate you, it's a very beautiful thing to have happen. |
| James Stacey | So I love that. For sure. And I mean, there is that part of the community element where it's people supporting people. It could be people supporting Jason's need for his in that he didn't need. But it could just be these, you know, we have these great hangouts. You get to we spent the last, you know, half hour leading up to the show. A time that Jason and I do kind of feel kind of nervous, I'll admit. But standing outside with people who like have know us through these events, know us through. you know, a Slack platform and that sort of thing. So, yeah, I agree that there's a lot of value in it beyond what may or may not be on your wrist or on your, you know, your list, your wish list, the grails and that sort of thing. So, Mr. Hutton, thank you so much for coming on. And I know you're a busy man, so I appreciate a few minutes of your time. And everybody give Jason a round of a hand for making this happen. |
| Jason Hutton | It's always, thank you. It's always my pleasure. And I just want to thank everyone for taking the time out of your busy schedules to also come and enjoy the show. And I hope you continue to enjoy it. We'll have a full day tomorrow as well. So also James and Jason, thank you so much for your ongoing support, really from day one. I am so appreciative and I will be ever appreciative of all your efforts. So thank you so much. |
| James Stacey | Hey man, thanks to you. My girls are at their first podcast recording for TGN. And my son, to be fair, although he's not going to remember it. That's what photos are for. Appreciate it. Thank you. Have a great day. |
| Unknown | Thanks so much. |
| James Stacey | All right, we'll call up our next guest in just a moment, and it's a special one, not a repeat from last year. We do evolve a little bit every year, just, you know, 5%, 10%. But, Jason, you know, that was an interesting question that you asked about what your, what Mr. Hutton's, there's so many Jasons. It's going to get worse. There's more Jasons coming. But there's an interesting question you asked, like what was your sort of first watch community thing? What was yours? Because I know I've talked about mine several times because, sadly, Mike Pearson's not here. And he was running my first one at the Liberty Village Pub in Toronto, which was the first time I drove from where I lived on the Hamilton Mountain. Had never really been to like a watch brand event. And it was Braymont in the very early days. And it was Mike and Nick English. And yeah, that was my start. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I think mine might have... I mean, that's odd because mine might have been a Bremont event as well. |
| James Stacey | And I remember... It was Mike that made the show happen, if you happen to be more of a recent listener. |
| Jason Heaton | But I remember there was kind of a small group of guys in the Minneapolis area where I live who would get together. And I think... like all, like a lot of us, when you first get into watches, it comes via the forums or it did back then. Nowadays it's podcasts and other and social media, but the forums were sort of this way to be a nerd anonymously and sort of distant from a distance. And I remember feeling an odd sense of nervousness, like meeting up with like local guys, like what, how's my collection going to stack up or my knowledge or whatever. And I think, you know, that those fears are quickly allayed when you just get together with people that are showing up with a you know, a Lange and some, you know, a Seiko and everything in between. And I think that's what events like this are part of. And it's just, yeah, I've cited this, I think, on TGN in the past, but one of my favorite TV shows is this British series called The Detectorists about these local kind of small town England guys that are out metal detecting. And it's just the celebration of being a nerd. And I think that's, you know, there's so many hobbies that are like that, whether you're into cameras or boots or a certain vehicle or something. And I think watches are among that. And I think it's such a healthy thing in today's world to come together over something very niche like this. For sure. |
| James Stacey | And I think the other thing you get from this is the broad spectrum of perspectives. from various people and it could be the taste and watches you'll learn and from other people you know that saying that you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with i think it's true for watch collecting as well you get definitely true for you and i but within the within the kind of effort of wanting to expand that perspective i'd like to bring up our next guest who is a an independent watchmaker here in canada bradley taylor come on up Thank you guys for having me up here. Oh, absolutely. You're welcome. So Bradley, you're based in Vancouver, one of my favorite places in the entire world. And we've met largely at community events over time. And Bradley makes high-end handmade watches is the program here. And I'm curious, you know, we had obviously Jason on who kind of builds communities. From your perspective, where does community play into your world? Because... I'm assuming that once you start making watches, doors start to open with other people who make watches, and it's like a sub-community. It's not necessarily buyers and collectors. It's people who are obsessed with making, right? |
| Bradley Taylor | Yeah, when you first mentioned the subject of the podcast, I was a little bit like, you know, it's a very solitary form of work that I've chosen. My best work is done between the hours of 11 p.m. and 3 a.m. But then I started thinking about it, and community is how I survive. I help run a small watch club in Vancouver that we meet every six weeks or so. And it's a very small factor compared to what it feels like to be at a show like this. But to be surrounded by people who are so passionate and something that I've given my life to, this craft, I can't put into words how important it is to every once in a while get that feeling of being surrounded by people with a shared interest. |
| Jason Heaton | I was curious. You know, as we were kind of discussing community and earlier just before you were saying, well, I need to think about that for a while. But I'm wondering, you mentioned how solitary your work is. And I'm wondering, is there also a community of watchmakers? |
| Bradley Taylor | Yeah, that's a really good question. What I was also thinking about is all the people around the world that I WhatsApp or video call. At one point I had like maybe five or six other independents and we'd meet every two weeks. And because, you know, it's a small thing and I can't walk down the corner and talk to someone else running the same business. Right. So it's almost therapeutic every two weeks to be like, oh, these are all the problems that I'm having. And, oh, I'm having this technical challenge. And what about that? And when you have that, you advance so much farther. The majority of my machining knowledge is from my good friend Josh Hacco in Australia. And I can call him up and say, oh, I'm having issues with this. And he'll help me out. And my friend Darren in Arizona, Darren Tiffany, helps me out with my Rose engine. Because who do you call to fix a 120-year-old machine? You have to fix it yourself, I guess. Yeah, I have to fix it, but he'll help me if I'm having too much trouble. |
| James Stacey | That's fascinating. And how have you seen sort of the, maybe not from necessarily a technological side, but just from the progression of sort of the Internet being able to connect people? Because it is solitary to be a watchmaker in your own sort of shop in a city out on the West Coast. But how have you experienced sort of the progression of what maybe went from forums to a different avenue to now to WhatsApp? Is it something where you can kind of tap into a local intelligence network and find the answers you need? |
| Bradley Taylor | Yeah, it's interesting to think about where watch enthusiasts started back on time zone. Yeah, of course. Watch You Seek, Poor Man's Watch Forum. Yeah. Actually, if you look up my name in Watch You Seek, you'll see the post I made to ask about watchmaking schools. Wow. I don't remember what year. But like 12 or 13, 14 years ago, I say, hey, I'm trying to find a watchmaking school in Switzerland. And then the assistant principal at my school said, hey, you should – call this guy Henrik. And before you know it, I spent three years in a tiny town there. So I'm very lucky to be in the time I am in the world when it comes to, you think about independence 20 years ago, how different it was. You have to get on a flight and show your watch. And to be fair, it's still part of what we do, but it's very different to get exposure and publicity. In that same vein, though, there's also such a saturation of... that content that you have to I think do something a bit more special to stick out now which is an okay challenge |
| Jason Heaton | You know, there's this kind of saying that says, you know, the cobbler's kids have no shoes. And I'm curious about – and we had Rebecca Struthers, this well-known British watch historian and watchmaker on probably a couple of years ago. And it was always kind of surprising to hear that the watch she wears the most is like a digital Casio or something like that. And I'm just curious, what about you? Like are you – or the Porsche mechanic who drives a little Yugo or something like that. Like what's your go-to and how did you – I'm going to move from watch enthusiasm to, oh, here we go. |
| Bradley Taylor | I just passed it over to Jason. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, okay. All right. It's an Hublot quartz. It's plastic. One of the service watches. |
| Bradley Taylor | Yeah, okay. Yeah, so I take watches so seriously in my life. When I'm quite finished with the design of my next watch, it's taking a long time. But I really don't like to wear anything that might influence that design. And it's nice to wear something that reminds me of the fun as well. Because when you're so involved, I've been spending four years working on my next project. You're so deep in the weeds, it's nice to put on something fun. And I like wearing it also around other collectors because it's kind of a litmus test. If you can't find the fun in that or you still want to find an opportunity to say, oh, Hublot sucks, then whatever. That's everything that people should dislike. It's quartz, plastic, Hublot. But I really like it. And I have a history of working with the brand, too, and they have some cool pieces. |
| James Stacey | I don't want to take up too much of your time, and obviously it's a potluck episode, so we try and keep things really popping here. But for the side of your business where you're supporting the clients that you have, how do you think about community? Are you connecting them if you think they have – is it a little bit like friend matchmaking at times? Is it that sort of thing? |
| Bradley Taylor | The reality is, like, the next series that I'm making, I'd be looking at making maybe six to eight pieces a year. So filling a room with even a couple years is not a lot of people. For what's really important for me is also traveling and meeting people in person, showing them the watch in person. That's why I've been really quiet about what I'm doing. I want to show a physical watch to people and wait until it's done. But in terms of community, for me, attending events like this is so invaluable to just get face-to-face time, even to see you guys. It's a wonderful thing. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Well, look, I'm so glad that you made it out to Toronto. I can't wait to see the next piece when it's ready to be seen. I've seen the teases and that sort of thing, and it's really coming together beautifully. But thanks so much for being on the show, man. It's an absolute treat. Awesome. Thank you both for having me. Really explosion went that back. Yeah. Thanks. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and if you happen to encounter Brad walking around out here, ask him to show you the watch that he's working on, that he's made. It's pretty impressive. All right, our next guest is the esteemed CEO of Marathon Watch Company, based not far from here. One of our good friends and a real friend of TGN, Mitchell Wine. Mitchell, please come on up. You've got a lot to say about the community, I'm sure, so please join us. |
| James Stacey | So much of you have been on the show before. We actually recorded in your living room. You live not too far from me, which is really nice. And, you know, like I said, we're trying to explore a different perspective. And it's going to, you know, the idea of community is going to mean something different to a lot of different sides of watches. And Marathon's a huge brand with a global impact and a brand that not only has its own, obviously, community, you know, involved in places like this. but makes products for specific communities. How do you kind of think about the importance of that to the company, especially a family-run company that has a Canadian identity? |
| Mitchell Wine | Well, I think community is very important, and it isn't just Canadian community, it's our Swiss community that we manufacture our watches. And one of the things I've learned over the years is to keep things local, meaning try to use local suppliers wherever you can. Keep it in the community. And I learned that during actually the Persian Gulf War when I was living in Switzerland and running the manufacturing for that. And there was a watch crisis happening at the same time and I was telling my dad, we need more watchmakers. And he says, go down to Bloom's Factory, who owned Ebell, and go to a few locals like the Dreyfuses who had Rotary Watch. Maybe they could help us with the assembly, and that was part of our community. We didn't use just one hand manufacturer or a foreign dial manufacturer. We used people in the community. Here in Canada, we're a Canadian company, even though we're international. I'm Canadian. My father's Canadian. My grandfather was Canadian, but he's passed away. there was great pride in being Canadian and keeping that Canadian content. And it isn't just materials, it's people. Not outsourcing, like even the service department or customer help, you know, when people call in, like, I want to order a watch or stuff like that. Keep it in-house. |
| Jason Heaton | I think, you know, when I first encountered Marathon was many years ago when I was first getting into watches and it was via the I'm sure you're familiar, the Military Watch Resource Web Forum, these very niche, within a niche, guys that were collecting military-issue watches. And at the time, Marathon was, I would say, less known, obviously, than it is now. I think they were kind of known to a smaller group of very specific collectors. You know, you were obviously selling watches into military units around the world. But we weren't selling retail. Right, exactly. Nobody could get our watches. So people were finding these watches through this community. And what was that like for you to kind of get a glimpse into that world? And then when did the light bulb kind of go off? Like, there are people wanting this watch outside of the military community. |
| Mitchell Wine | Well, in those times, yeah, because it's the watch community. So in those days, we had quite a robust business just supplying different, not just militaries. I mean, we supplied the Canadian government with all its wall clocks and special stopwatches for submarines for medical and anesthesia clocks, ship's clocks. So we... we stuck to what we knew best. And the nice thing about working with government is actually they're quite honest. I know a lot of people won't think that way. I get to work with engineers, which is really nice. I'm not working with someone who decides that my design is ugly. They're looking at the test reports. So... In those days, I was fighting with my dad and I said, you know, we get so many calls about people buying these watches. He said, you know what? And he used to bring out this big stack of NSF checks. We're not selling to jewelry stores and we don't want to sell anything but surplus from contracts. There was no intent for our brand really to be known because a lot of our contracts had no name brand on the watches, just our cage code on the back. And the only way watches got out was when service people didn't, they actually didn't return the watch that was owned by the government they were working for. Most governments don't allow you to take the watch back. They take it back because it's like a gun or a knife or a piece of equipment. And that's what we always looked at our product as. It's a piece of equipment. You know, it's not as nice as his watches, that's for sure. But it's functional and it could take a beating. So the internet came on board. We got a customer in the United States that was buying watches, the surplus watches from our contracts. Sometimes we had a contract for 9,700 pieces, so 100 pieces. were used for testing. And then we had 200 extra and we'd release it to someone in the United States, which was a customer that I knew. And that was the old days with the fax machine and everything. And that's how we used to sell it. Then the internet came on and people knew about our brands. And I tried with a website and... we started suddenly selling our watches. I think it also has to do with we had a great story. And I think that we've been unwavering about quality and keeping our supplies local. In Switzerland, you know, you could get dials from many different factories, but... making the dials in switzerland getting the tubes in switzerland with the tubes are filled with an isotope called tritium and that all comes from ontario power generation here right here locally so keeping that content instead of foreign i think helps us keep jobs and i've always felt and my father always felt is that We're actually responsible to the taxpayer. Being a government contractor, we are responsible to them. And they should be getting the best price and best quality that they purchase. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And I'm curious, and we talked about this a bit, I mean, many times offline, but certainly on the last time you were on the pod. Like, I'm curious... for a brand that was used to dealing with governments and outfits of that like and representing a large part of your business suddenly breaking into you know knuckleheads like us that just wanted cool watches but just one at a time and now now you guys are participating in shows like this you're at all sorts of shows throughout the states of various sort of whether it's watches or other sort of military connected goods well the shows bring us to the community that not only we serve to supply |
| Mitchell Wine | know you go to toronto rehab everybody has a marathon stopwatch i mean this is the community they should know about us but we should know about them the only reason why our business really grew was because my my dad and my grandfather listened to the government and listen to what they needed that stopwatch or clock for. I mean, we do special clocks for submarines. Why did we develop it with a 24-hour dial? The reason why we did that was because that's what the engineers in the Department of the Navy needed, actually. And it wasn't just telling the time. It was to make sure that if there's a sudden impact with the submarine, that parts don't go flying off and injure someone. So there's a lot of testing that we keep locally. We constantly are improving our machines and buying new machines to make sure that we're up to par in quality control. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And then as far as, you know, you were at the at the show last year, the first of the Toronto Timepiece shows back again this year. How's your experience been the last couple of days? You know, we had there's like a media event last night and then the big show starts today. |
| Mitchell Wine | It was really busy today, but I heard there was a race and everything was hard to get here this morning. I wasn't planning on coming here until around 1 o'clock. And I'll tell you what. Last year was the first show, and we were extremely busy. But it was great being in our own community. I mean, we're a Toronto company. We're originally from Montreal, but we are a Toronto company. And meeting so many people from the GTA, from Ontario, from across Canada, and many U.S. and European visitors. It's really nice to do that. I like the venue that we have here. It's a lot of open space, and many people can stand around in great comfort, and that's a big thing. Just listening to people talk about other watches. Like, I was just at the booth and this guy came with a watch and it was stunning. It was similar to your watch, actually. I think it was called an avocado from the booth next door to us. But I get to see a lot of different things here. As a watch collector, it's a great place to be. Yeah, for sure. I agree. For sure. I used to collect stamps and coins, and I always collected watches and dials and all different weird things, you know. |
| James Stacey | Well, look, thanks so much, Mitchell, for coming up and chatting for a few minutes. It's a treat to be able to speak with you. And then, of course, for anybody who's hanging out tomorrow night, we've got this great party. We're going to get to hang out again like we did last year. |
| Mitchell Wine | Oh, yeah, that's right. We do. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, it's going to be great. |
| Mitchell Wine | Yes, everybody come. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Mitchell. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Next up, we're going to switch gears here. If there's anybody that knows about community, it's our next guest, our good friend for a very long time, Robert Jan Broer. If you want to make your way up, I can continue the introduction, give you some time to walk on the stage. Robert Jan is the founder of Fratello Watches, one of the better known online communities and publications. And Robert Jan, when we talk about community, we can't forget about the... Origination of Speedy Tuesday, which we can get into in a bit here, but talk about a true community. It's great to have you here. Thank you. Thank you for having me. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, it genuinely is a delight. When I heard that you and I were going to be on the panel for the judging panel for the World Time Peace Awards, I just thought, oh, I mean, we got to at least see if we get you for 10 minutes. being one of the first guys to really crack the code on bringing watches to the casual world of the internet, removing some of the, maybe stuffiness is the wrong word, but the controls of the way that watches have been presented previously, whether it was through, you know, gloriously expensive magazines or books that you bought once a year. I guess maybe the one that gets my curiosity most specifically is, how do you think... |
| Robert Jan Broer | community has evolved for watches since fratello that's a good question for as a bit of background fratello started in 2004 and i think in 2004 i also visited my first watch event and it was actually a p day panerai day in frankfurt and it was 2004 2005. and that showed me that there are so many people interested in one certain brand or one certain model um and from in 99 i purchased my first speedmaster and i gathered a group of friends around me that also bought speedmaster so there was already a little community going on and as you i was active on time zone and what you seek i was even a moderator there 25 years ago So it grew very organically. And with Speedy Tuesday, it was a bit of a coincidence that it happened. So it also happened more or less organically. There was no thought behind it. But I saw what it did. So I... for those who don't know I was on a holiday with my family in south of France as Dutch people do in the summer and I took a picture of my Speedmaster on the wrist and I posted it online and the caption was it's a speedy Tuesday because it was a Speedmaster and it was a Tuesday it's very simple what if it had been a wednesday yeah but it doesn't sound as nice yeah right so um and as soon as i published it i saw the comments coming in and i also realized that it actually sounds nice so from there it started that we we started to write about speed masters every tuesday on fratello but also on instagram to make a speedy hashtag speedy tuesday post and that took off like crazy it was insane there was i had no idea that it would do that to be honest so there was no concept behind it there was no thought behind it it just grew organically and um so we did events we did get-togethers all over europe and later on worldwide and then watches yeah in 2017 we did a watch in 2018 again so in 2017 we did a Speedmaster called Tribute to Alaska 3 a specific model Speedmaster and one year later an Ultraman and who knows what else will happen but we did those two in those years and I was very worried to be honest because there was this group of enthusiasts that like Speedmasters and um but that's something different than that you find 2012 people buying the watch that you designed together with a brand so i had sleepless nights because i proposed to omega let's do 200 or 300 and they say are you crazy we need to do more we need to do at least 2000 and then i said okay do 2012 because that's the year i started so we did and it sold out in a in a flash and um yeah a year later we did the same thing again um but the whole speedy tuesday thing is not about those watches it's not about the merch or whatsoever it's really about this community and this community feeling that I learned very quickly with Fratello and I think you also see it with Hodinkee that people like to follow people and people like to meet people. And I think that's the community thing. The whole online thing on Instagram is just a way to get in touch, to make contact. And I think then the next step is to meet. And even here today, this morning, I had a wonderful coffee with someone I know via Instagram. And we talked for like an hour about watches and all sorts of things. And I think that's so nice that you... use social media to be social but then it gets even more social when you meet each other in in real life i think that's very important and that's also with the speedy choose the events there have been friends made for life also at the brand itself but also with other speedmaster collectors i'm curious i've always wondered with um internet publications such as hodinkee or fratello or time and tide and some of these others um how despite how international the internet is |
| Jason Heaton | there still tends to be this real this regional flavor and following are you finding that with fratello i mean obviously we all read all of them but um do you find that there's you get much more of a european audience or do you write i mean do you write for a specific audience or is it um no uh well we write for people who are enthusiastic about watches and it doesn't matter where they're from basically if i look at the statistics and i think the same goes for you guys it's |
| Robert Jan Broer | 40 us 40 europe and the rest of the rest of the world and i think it's for all watch publications i did not realize that um you're in the picture if you do a community like speedy tuesday or or p day or the panaristi thing or you're at hodinky or fratello um i was not so aware that you're in the picture and that's the thing i need to get used to that a few months ago um i was driving behind my neighbor and she crashed into another car in our street And I got out of the car, and then the person who crashed into my neighbor also got out of the car. And the first thing he says, hey, you're RJ from Fratello. What are you wearing? So it can get a bit difficult sometimes, but those are interesting things. That's community right there. Yeah, so we cater towards, I think, watch fans and watch enthusiasts. And two weeks ago, we did an event with Cartier, and there you see that... Suddenly there's also women reading Fratello because I think 50% were women that signed up for the event. And it was so nice to see that, that the community is growing and you have different little bubbles. You have a Speedmaster bubble, you have a Cartier bubble, you have a Panerai bubble and so on, Marathon bubble. And I think that's a cool thing. And sometimes it mixes, like here or at other bigger events. And that's a nice thing. I think most important is one of the lessons I learned a few years ago. We hired a guy that does brand building. And he told me a brand without fans, that's very difficult as a brand to survive. But I would say actually now... especially in these days where things are a little bit slower, the market is a bit slower, I think as a brand, you need a community. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, yeah. I would say just to succeed in general, almost regardless of what you do, you need a community. It was interesting, we were listening to Bradley, and he was saying that he had access to other watchmakers once he broke into that community. And I realized, and it was totally unintentional, I hadn't thought of this vector, but like... As I got into watches, I had been reading Fratello. I had been reading Hodinkee. I had been reading all these sites. And as I got into watches and started going press trips, I was kind of like ushered into this little weirdo community that we're part of that led to me having this podcast and you and I going to weird places of the world and not sleeping at all and, you know, looking at watches occasionally and that sort of thing. And I think that there is that element of it where... You can think about it quite intentionally, or it can happen organically like Speedy Tuesday, but it still does have to kind of be rooted in something kind of real. Correct, yeah. And it does, I don't think real, like it doesn't, like I don't think Speedy Tuesday would have been less powerful if you didn't do a watch. I mean, the watches were great, that's why they sold. And the community was strong. Yeah, yeah. But I think the part that really rooted it was like there was an era, and I don't know if we're still in that era, I would argue we aren't, for social media, where using a hashtag... kind of said like, hey, I'm one of those guys. I'm one of the people that use that hashtag. It's a bit of a label. Yeah. You find each other through the label, basically. Yeah, I would agree. I think it's kind of an interesting sort of arc. I was just racking my brain as we're sitting here talking, trying to remember the first trip we were on when I met you. And I don't think I can place it, but it might have been an Omega trip. |
| Robert Jan Broer | I think it was, 2015 in Houston. |
| James Stacey | Down to Houston, that's right. And we had that incredible dinner and saw some truly wild watches. Correct. Yeah, I found those photos the other day. I just murried away at the back end of my phone. I think I was on that trip, too, and we had Tang martinis or something? |
| Jason Heaton | Yes, correct. |
| James Stacey | That was where Clooney showed up, and they didn't even shut his plane off. Yeah, right. Yeah, so we were in a huge hangar. This is a deviation, but welcome to the show. We were in a huge hangar that was built like the surface of the moon, and you started in sort of like a spaceship that was kind of like 2001. Yeah. And they were giving people cocktails in like the drink containers that you'd use on the space station. And then the doors opened with some dry ice. And there was seating for hundreds of people. It was a big era for Omega. They were doing some big press events. and they had like a talk like this that was, you know, much shorter. And Clooney came in, and if I remember correctly, like you could hear his plane land. And then he came in, did his thing, talked for a few minutes. They never shut the plane off, and he just like walked directly back onto the plane and just was like, God. |
| Jason Heaton | There's a question I've been dying to ask you for as many years as I've known you, and that is where did the name Fratello come from? |
| Robert Jan Broer | that's a good question it's often asked so my last name is a brewer and it's very difficult to pronounce if you write it b-r-o-e-r it's very difficult to pronounce in other languages than dutch or flamish belgium so i came up with a website in 2002 actually i was a student and i want to do something with watches i want to sell watches so i bought vintage watches had them restored and and sold them online um and i thought watch it sounds weird i want to have something that that is the same in every language a bit like the rolex story and i i found out that my last name is fratello in italian and i think you pronounce it the same everywhere perhaps in italian is a little bit different But in the end, it works. And that's basically what it is. And I had no idea. |
| James Stacey | That's great. |
| Robert Jan Broer | All right. The fun thing is that on Fratello, in the comments section, people refer to each other as fratelli, so brothers. Oh, yeah. So it's also a nice effect. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Well, look, Robert, it's an absolute treat to have you up here and to chat with you about this kind of stuff. And I feel like we could do the memory lane thing for a really long time. Maybe save it for a dinner. sometime in the future. Just a huge shout out to what you guys are doing at Fratello, your whole team. You have an incredible crew of writers and photographers and absolutely industry-leading stuff. So thanks so much for taking 10 minutes to chit-chat with us. |
| Robert Jan Broer | Thanks for having me. |
| James Stacey | Thank you. Let's jump right into another guest. This guy is a familiar voice on the show. He was on last year's episode. He's been on several other episodes. He was a man that really opened up the Vancouver world to me in terms of not only watchmaking and watches, but just sitting and talking and having a lovely time after a day at work. I would stop in. at rolled orphan co in its old location uh pretty much every friday for a very long time it's where i kind of first hung out with uh with jason lim from halios and uh and that sort of thing and it it really was kind of a nice little cornerstone for what became one of my deepest sort of watch groups uh in the physical sense uh in in vancouver so let's bring up world orphan co's founder jason gallup |
| Jason Gallop | So how are you doing, my friend? It sounds really different up there. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, it does. Yeah, I imagine. So I'm going to jump in right away because I just asked Robert Yahn where Fratello came from. Where did Roldorf come from? |
| Jason Gallop | Oh, I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you afterwards. |
| James Stacey | Oh, wow. Canadians. All right. Okay. So obviously we've talked with small independent watchmakers, people leading major watch brands, people leading major watch media outlets, and people running watch shows in your mind because I for me I don't I wonder how you'll explain it because I've seen you do it so effortlessly of just connecting people you find ways and it's not just about bringing someone into your store you almost have a store so that you have a space to have people come hang out |
| Jason Gallop | I think that was the thing. I wanted a place where I could work where people would just naturally feel at home and want to hang out and chat. I'd seen the other side of watchmaking that's very much production-based, especially when it comes down to a service center environment. head down, how many are you doing a day? You leave, go home, maybe go for a pint with some of the other watchmakers afterwards and rinse and repeat. So I realized that at a very young age that that really wasn't me. I like watches, but I also like people. And how could I actually put it all together to make this environment where people would just walk in and just go, whoa, this is really different, right? You can actually sit down. There's, oh, there's Scotch over there. You know, and not feel pressured to do anything other than just absorb. and and that that basically was it and this is how we ended up meeting yeah yeah and The community to me before was just, well, when I was younger, I don't even remember community. When I went to watchmaking school, when my father had a store, I'm thinking back to then, was there any kind of a watch community there? And there really wasn't. It was really when I went to watchmaking school that I discovered that community because of like-minded people. |
| Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| Jason Gallop | Yeah, and that turned out to be really good. And that community has stayed, just like Bradley had said. You build that community so you can help each other. And when you take that one step further into the wider watch world and people liking watches, that becomes an enabling situation. |
| James Stacey | Sure. Yeah. I think the other element of this specifically for you, and I've known you for many years, we know each other pretty well. You've been on TGN many times and often it's in an educational context. |
| Jason Gallop | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And I think there's a really sweet thing that you do with your space or even if you're not in your space, like you're here in Toronto. it's you know there's a warmth to it but there's also like i'm open if you have a question there's no like dumb question there's not a bad question it's just curiosity is is great and valuable roldorf sells watches you guys sell a lot of great brands but it often seems like the way you present yourself online is more like a resource for people who might like watches |
| Jason Gallop | Yeah, I don't really know how to answer that in any kind of a coherent way because the thing about knowledge is this. There are people out there that seek it all the time. There are people that want to provide it and are very happy doing that. And then there are other people that it really doesn't matter that much. right but there's this combination where i like to talk about watches but i like to talk about them in in in a technical way right and i i realize that that not everybody has a deep technical knowledge and i just have a great sense of satisfaction in being able to provide that knowledge so that they can come back with something else and have a wider discussion in the community about something they've learned that's technical. And that's where our Saturday morning talks came into it, where I'd pick a topic and then say hey we're going to be talking about this and and uh and then people would actually show up for it and started off with two or three people and then word got around and it you know it it turns out to to somewhere around 30 now which is which is really cool and what a fun thing it is because it puts education at the center but it builds the community around it because then there's a reason a real reason for somebody to actually come out because they want to find out a little bit more about this topic right but the thing is is that then people hang out afterwards and it can be a lot more right of just people chatting and i just go back to the bench and carry on working while there's this buzz going on Meanwhile, my head's down, but I got this big grin, right? It's like, yeah, this is what it's really supposed to be about. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, Jason and I naturally gravitate to the most casual elements of interest in watches. It's why we really love the folks in the team at Marathon and we have the party with them tomorrow night. And when we were in Vancouver and didn't have access to this amazing space that Marathon, you know, connects us with, we did a hangout at Roldorf. Yeah. And it was packed. And I genuinely, like, I can't sit here and say that's because of TGN. I think it's because you do so much for that community that people just know, they already know where the store is. They already know what kind of, like, I think it's hard to convince people. Like, if I told you right now, oh, go to so-and-so jeweler's down the street. you'd think like, well, it's going to be a little stuffy. They might offer me some champagne. They're not going to be talking at my level. And I think I've witnessed it again and again in Vancouver and certainly with the evolution of your store, which required community involvement to continue the store and that sort of thing. I just feel like I had witnessed it and so much of it, the value feels derived from like... this is something you can appreciate with any amount of money. This is something you can appreciate with any amount of knowledge because all of that can change or be adjusted over time. |
| Jason Gallop | Yeah, because if you present a particular environment, stuffiness can be left at the door, right? Because it's very apparent the moment you enter that this is a very different kind of place, right? And especially with an event like that where, you know, there were a lot of people present probably more than should have been there, but going out onto the, you know, outside the store and people having conversations out there and then coming back in. You know, it was an absolutely fun event and I loved being a part of that. But yeah, hopefully we can do that again. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I'm always, I mean, any excuse to go to Vancouver and hang out with you, I'm down for sure. Well, look, man, we've got some Q&A coming up. I'm going to assume you wouldn't mind sticking around for some questions if we get to it. But we're going to call up our next guest. Thank you so much for being with us for a few minutes. It was an absolute treat. We've got one more guest before we get into some Q&A. I hope you guys have some questions. I believe almost everybody that has been up on stage is still available. So feel free to think about addressing those questions and we'll find a way to. There's two mics, so maybe we can share mics, questions and answers. But next up, we're going to bring up a good buddy who I think represents another perspective on the need and sort of proliferation of community. And that's Kenneth Lamb from Arkham Watches. Hello, lads. Hey, buddy. |
| Jason Heaton | Ken, you know, you're well-known among our community. Anybody listening or here watching knows of you and can check out your watches out here in the case. And I don't know, it's just, I feel like you're like the embodiment of the watch community in the way that your brand has grown, but also in the way that you've integrated into our TGN community. What does it mean to you? And I guess the question that I failed to ask everybody that I said I was going to, what was your first exposure to kind of a watch community? |
| Kenneth Lamb | My first watch meetup, I can remember it as clear as day because I'd just started the company and it was a Red Bar Bristol and it was a few years ago and I remember walking into the room and it was so many people and I felt so intimidated because there was more watches than I'd ever seen ever. They all belong to people so I don't want to touch them, right? But then as soon as I broke... into one conversation it just cascaded into like another conversation oh have you met this guy have you seen these watches and then before you know it people are just handing you stuff like left and right and then you just you're in it then and then once you've kind of done that once you become immediately desensitized to it so then every event just becomes this like like this party of just throwing watches around and then you kind of fall in love with that environment then. I think the thing that I love about the community is it's the thing that prevents... what I do from becoming this like selfish pursuit of creativity, right? Because you're like doing this for other people. And it's really easy for me to like sit at my desk all day, not see anybody and just design or work on a thing. But having the community there and communicating with them adds that like human element that like is kind of therapeutic. And I think that connection is what's really, really important. It's especially like nowadays, right? Where it's quite easy to just shut yourself off from the world and just watch TV or stay on your phone. And it's the community that obviously, A, gives me the motivation and the desire to want to make things for other people and get that feedback back. But it's also the thing that like snaps me out of that obsessive mindset where I can like, if I notice one thing on a dial that I'd like to change, I would obsess about it for days. Like, oh man, I need to change this or I need to do this. But then you go out into the real world and someone's wearing the watch and they're like, oh, I love that part of the doll. And you're like, really? And you're like, yeah, don't change it. And you kind of snap back to reality and like, oh, okay. You know, people like different things and you kind of like, you go a bit easier on yourself. So that community side of it really helps. |
| James Stacey | keep me sane and like keeps the enjoyment constantly flowing and doing what i do so i feel like i've got like the best job in the world really so it's yeah oh i mean we definitely have the best job in the world like you do i do yeah for sure no question uh but i do think there's an interesting tidbit there which is it's very difficult to create something and it's very difficult to appreciate something totally in a vacuum and i think there was a golden era of the internet that jason and i talked about a lot where it felt like it was just ready for enthusiasts. And then it got really big. And I think that having a footing is important. And that's why we have the Slack. Shout out to the crew. Hopefully you're all listening to this later on. And some of you are certainly in the audience. But I'm interested from your perspective, Ken, like you go to, you're starting a brand new brand. You're really not doing something that looks identical to what somebody might already have bought or have bought last time or know from another brand. You're doing something sort of a novel. and how do you know you do that knowing like this will be sold online my existence is largely digital how did you start to think of ways to like pin Arkin to the real world honestly like I could I could say a big spiel is like oh yeah I thought of that and I did that but in reality I didn't know well even if you didn't plan it like like I'm maybe leading you towards something like speakeasy or or the fact that you come to events like this what I can say is that like I didn't plan it like |
| Kenneth Lamb | like section by section. But what I knew I wanted to do is build my brand off the community that I knew that I felt a kinship to, you know, and I have you, I have a lot like, like you guys, I have to thank you guys for, for, for what you've done in creating the community that you've created, because that community has always felt like, close to me in that i feel a part of it and i have a lot of things in common a lot of people in the slack and then there's a lot of relatability there so it's it was easy for me to find where i belonged and then build the brand within those areas that kind of connected because you did you did stuff like you started it a while ago right like you you built it out of you know when the social media thing hadn't really kind of you know it's still kind of growing up it's a kind of different space now than it was when you just sunsets and pictures are like what you ate for dinner yeah yeah yeah yeah so you guys did all the hard work right so for me it's like i could plug in i could be a part of the family and then work on what i wanted to do and and and it also helps in that i can then create all kind of authentically and like a genuine way right like i don't have to create something that is just to succeed in the market i can just create what i want and what i love because i know that because of what you've done there's a community that also shares the same things that i like so then i can i feel free in that so yeah |
| Jason Heaton | I think, you know, you mentioned the changing face of social media and how I think, you know, we're at a time in history. I don't want to delve into this too deeply, but there's just a lot of divisiveness in the world. And I think sometimes we can find some positivity and some connection and a strong sense of community in strange places like in watches. I don't want to get on a soapbox here, but as trivial and kind of frivolous as watches can seem sometimes, I think it's really important to kind of emphasize the positivity of what we're all doing. And I think the things you mentioned about, you know, the barrier to entry to get into a watch community or go to your first meetup can feel a little intimidating. But then you get that welcome sense and it's just you feel like you've found your people. It gives me such a warm, fuzzy feeling to kind of to do this. And I'm just curious about your perspective about how can we continue to kind of grow the community? What's the next step? Do you think? |
| Kenneth Lamb | I think it's more shows like this, right? Like it's more shows like this. People bring a friend, right? And that friend might not be in it yet, but they will be, right? And then that friend might be from a completely different community of people of interest that they like. And then it's just by one by one, you're kind of pulling more people in. So, you know, you get more people that are inspired to do things like, you know, I always like to hope that from the things that I talk about, there's people that go away and think, oh, do you know what? I could star a brand. Because the reality is they could, right? Like the knowledge and the information's out there. And whether that's, you know, a young person, an old person, any gender, any walk of life, right? You're then inspiring that person to kind of create thing. And then a couple of years time or whatever, they're up on the panel and talking to people that, they can relate to. So then it's like, it's, it's just like a rolling thing that I hope builds off of doing more shows like this, more events like this. Right. Um, but yeah, like it's, it's even the interactions outside. Like I was saying, when I went to my first watch meet up, it was like intimidating because I had to break that wall. And sometimes I like, I'll see people outside, like at the stand and they're kind of looking at me and they, they know, they kind of, I think they know me. Um, And they've got this look and they're all like, I don't really want to say hi, but they want to say hi. So it's like me, I'm like, oh, I've been in that position. So I've got to jump at that and be like, hi. And then they're like, oh my God, he already knows that I want to talk. And then it like breaks, makes it easier to break that wall. Right. So, so yeah, I think that's probably the best way to just keep doing these things. You know, the podcast like yours, keep them going, you know, episode 500, episode 600. |
| James Stacey | Let's not get ahead of ourselves. But speaking of the podcast, you know, you have a great podcast called Form and Function. It's all right. You just crested 100 episodes, which is no small feat. Let's have a little round of applause for hopefully some of you listen. It's a great show. And I think if you, obviously I have the pleasure and Jason has the pleasure, we know you personally, and you are a man that has a cataloged inventory of everything that you think is cool, just kind of up there and you can pull references to it and it can be media, it can be product, it can be little design elements from like a specific t-shirt that you really like. And I like that specificity in the way that you do it. Do you have, and the podcast covers a lot of those interests and again, the connections there. Are there other brands, are there other elements in the world where you go, they're really nailing community or they did this kind of thing kind of interesting and I would like to replicate or refract that sort of success? |
| Kenneth Lamb | I think the brands that I always look to that shape community really well, a lot of it is very activation basis. Like there's a participation that I think is really, really important. And I always said, like when I first started, like if we can get to that point, like a really big brand, it would be a great excuse to like be able to just... bring a load of people to a place and just do some fun stuff and it all just be covered because i'd rather pay for loads of people to do fun stuff than give it to the tax man right like it's like why not so like there's brands that you know you've got brands like snowpeak that do these like camping trips just like they do them in the uk as well where they they they bring all this snow peak gear and then everyone can just camp using all this snow peak stuff right and it's like a really fun like engaging environment they do cooking classes there they do like how to select survival stuff and it's those things that i think like i i always like look i'm like that's that's a really cool way to do community because like that can happen anywhere in the world like even like you guys like on the slack you've got a meetups channel right and you've got guys that are doing these tgn meetups like everywhere and like that is so awesome to see because like they're regularly going out and it's it's kind of bringing back that old-fashioned culture like going to the pub every friday right like they're your they're your people that you just kind of go and and hang out with and then it'd be nice for for me as a brand to be able to be like here have the beer right like have the have the free food and like let's just do it all together and keep doing it right so snow pig is one of them um it's there's there's a there's a bunch of like kind of clothing brands that would do like outdoor activations and that sort of stuff some some watchmans do some of the press sort of stuff but i think it would be cool to then open that out to like the bigger community to like try the watches in the environments that you'd like to see them and try it in so yeah |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I mean, I think you've kind of provided the perfect segue to kind of a closing of the circle here, you know, in our discussion about what community means. And so we appreciate your help with that. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, thank you so much, Ken. Everybody, give Ken a round of applause. Check out Art and Watch's case out there. Look, everyone, we're going to open up the mics here at the bottom of each aisle. If you have a question for us, if you'd like to pose it to one of our guests, assuming they're still here and would like to respond, then maybe they can jump to the other mic or come up to the same one. But we've got 15 or 20 minutes. So please feel free if there's any questions that would be good for the show. We'd love to hear. |
| Will | Afternoon, guys. My name is Will. Hey, Will. I have a question about the platform that you have in terms of your voices. Whether you like it or not, you are influencers of some sort. I've almost bought a number of watches based on the comments in the podcast. And, you know, through the writings you do, through Hodinkee, through the podcast, do you feel pressure when it comes to developing your opinion about things, knowing that it may impact how the world receives it and what they might do with the products that you recommend? And if there is pressure, how do you deal with it? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I mean, I think I didn't used to think about it that much. But when I do get people... Especially now that we've got the slack, I get direct messages. I just got one the other day saying, you know, in the recent episode, you talked about this Artem rubber strap or whatever. And they say, you know, these are expensive and I'd love to consider one for my watch. But do you think... And so I had to really kind of pause and think to myself, you know, how do you respond to this? And so much of it is up to a person's budget and personal taste. And I really try to kick that back and not shed my own responsibility for recommending something. But... Um, that's the thing about watches or any products that we talk about is it's so subjective that, um, I would never want somebody to, to buy something or consider something only because it's something I like. Um, I think that could be dangerous, but, um, yeah, it, it is tricky and it is something that I've thought about more and more. Um, just as, as I've gotten a lot of personal questions about it. How about you? |
| James Stacey | yeah i mean i would say there's a huge amount of pressure um especially when you you know it's one thing if you're talking about uh you know my love of a ten dollar amazon strap not so much pressure you guys don't like it it's you know it's a little wasteful but it is what it is but when you get into a watch something that theoretically has been made to last forever could be the only one that you buy i think this is why and i'm have definitely been teased about this by my colleagues why i include as much information as possible uh because you know data has less opinion to it than you know my you know ramblings about whether or not i like a watch because it's anti-digi or it's big but it wears well or whatever reason and and i think it's important to have have that data and and i think the other side of it is is if you're in that line of work you have to understand that if you write something people will probably there's a good chance that they've read the last few things you wrote or in some cases everything that you've wrote for a given outlet or something like that And I think it's important to have a respect for that continuity. You're not just a guest writer coming in with some hot opinion and leaving. You kind of have to be a part of the solution and the problem as much as possible. And if the problem is simply, I recommend this watch because I like it and I spent my money on it or something like that, that's a fairly simple equation. But if it's, you know, I bought a watch for a week, you have to make it clear that like... that's how long i had it and and this is what i thought of it and whenever possible if there's things where it didn't feel a certain way not saying them could be as dangerous as saying something incorrectly so just you know be as kind of thorough as possible but that took you know took kind of years to develop that perspective and understand um when you speak to people because in in the last thing is any any given audience for what you make whether it's a podcast or a photo on instagram they'll all have their own perspective something that I could think is quite expensive or quite inexpensive could be the opposite for the person who's absorbing it. So it's helpful, but difficult, but you try and absorb as much of that as possible. So yeah, like most things, be as thoughtful as you can with the duty that you've been given, even if it's something that we don't need, like watches. I think as humans, we need community, which is why that's what we wanted to talk about. And I think that what we learned from our great run, I guess here is that a lot of us is rooted in bringing something that's become largely digital, largely, you know, the product of movies and magazines and ads on television and try and root it back into like, I hung out with this person. I saw this person, we came to this show, we had a, we had a coffee together, that sort of thing. And I think it's, you know, it's the two sides of that, but I think if you can keep that scope and let the work reflect that, hopefully it's helpful. And if it's not helpful, it should at least be entertaining. |
| Jason Heaton | I think that's a good point, actually. I think maybe earlier on it was more one way. We were talking out into the void and talking to people, a group of listeners that we didn't interact with. Now I'm almost as influenced by a lot of people. All the time. You know, on our Slack or people that write in or that we meet. as maybe goes the other direction. I really like that. |
| James Stacey | And the feedback loop is tighter, more valuable, but also if you get something wrong, it comes back real quickly. Yeah. So, yeah. Any other questions for us? |
| Steve from Pennsylvania | Hi, guys. Steve from Pennsylvania. But Jason, growing up, I too have swum in all five of Minneapolis lakes. I didn't listen. No, I grew up in Twin Cities. Fantastic. Yeah. So, I mean, you guys touched on it at the end here a little bit about community, not just being watches. And I mean, I'll quote from your, you know, you talk about lifestyle, driving, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and also watches. And I find the best pods. do delve into other communities? I mean, it can be as specific as with Marathon, with the SAR community, or as not specific as other communities. How important do you think that, because when we get together and talk, yeah, it starts out as watches. but we all have other interests. I flew airplanes for 50 years, so if anybody wants to talk airplanes, I'm happy to talk airplanes. There you go. Cars, I drive them. I have a hybrid, so I know where to plug it in and where to put the gas. That's about all I know about cars, but it seems to be that. So how important do you guys see that as a connection? |
| Jason Heaton | I think for me, the... The watches, I'm kind of glad it's our last item in our list because I find the other stuff, as time goes on, almost more interesting. The interest levels kind of shifted more in that direction where we've talked about some of the trips we've taken or the cars we've driven or movies we've seen. Our film club is one of our favorite series of episodes that we do, and it's such an oddball. It's such an outlier for us. We often, at the top, we sort of almost apologize for, you know, This is not our usual kind of scope. But yeah, I think watches kind of become an entree to the other topics. And I always, you know, one of my favorite things to say is it really isn't about the watch. It's what you do with it. And I think all those other things are things you can do with a watch. So the watch can kind of transcend all those other topics, but it doesn't have to be the only thing. And that's what I like about it. |
| James Stacey | yeah and for me i mean my mom could attest like i just kind of i like being fascinated by things and and sometimes that's a watch and uh and sometimes it's a car and sometimes it's a movie and sometimes it's a a certain like tom and i were chatting in depth about just a certain part of a book that we both read a jack car book uh recently and and i like you know i read the first half of of the second book in in the terminal list series and learned all about you know there's it you don't really necessarily he explains a lot of stuff but he just leaves these little breadcrumbs of like oh i could go learn about the mining system and what that means to that area or the professional hunters or and and you just before you know it the a book you read is now you know 20 20 links deep on on wikipedia and And that sort of thing. And I think that's how it's always been for me. I was lucky enough to grow up in the era of Encarta 95. You know, we had the discs at school. And yeah, you could start by reading about an octopus, but then you might get into a cuttlefish and the cuttlefish might take you to an anatomy. And I've always just kind of liked that and the ability to jump topics. If you're fascinated, it's natural because there's always... Like I'll never know the stuff I don't know, but I can be really delighted by the next thing I get to learn or get obsessed with, even if it only lasts for a couple weeks. Like I'm sure there's lots of examples from the show of like... I went down a rabbit hole and very quickly came out the other side, but some are deeper than others. And I just love being kind of delighted by information. And while I don't always, and I can be quite negative about the way that the internet makes real life more difficult, it does make a certain type of passion a lot easier. You know, there was no way for me to, as a kid, have enough car magazines. And now they're just all there. i see it i see it in my kids you know they're when when there's something that they're interested in the entire world of the recorded knowledge of that thing is there and if we could make a show that where you might be like and we get this we got an email from a lovely guy the other day who said like i like watches and i travel sometimes the rest of it's meaningless to me would i still fit in on the slack and i said well give it a try what's you know i think you'll be delighted there's probably 40 50 channels i'm not even in all of them and and i think having those avenues to to go deep and to find other people to talk about stuff is just a very human sort of thing any other questions we've probably got a few more minutes if there's any curiosity left in the auditorium |
| Unknown | Uh, inquiring minds want to know, did, have you had your dipping soup on this trip to Canada yet? |
| James Stacey | No, we, I didn't get the opinion that Ken needed more, uh, swish LA. So, Oh, okay. Well, Hey, there's still, we got hours. We got hours left. |
| Unknown | Again, I'll just echo what some other people in the crowd have said is, thanks for creating this community. I walk in the door today and instantly I'm recognized from the marathon party last year and get to talk about, you know, your hike through the Andes or snorkeling the Great Barrier Reef. And you've really done a good job to bring people from everywhere together to talk about not just watches, but, you know, a whole plethora of things. |
| James Stacey | which kind of leads me to uh 2026 tgn dives is this something we can make happen you know it's something we've we've explored even more deeply than we've talked about uh so it's a logistics uh issue and we actually have some some willing support on the slack to try and figure out what what like a tgn experience sort of vacation thing would be um obviously the first folks to hear about it will be will be those on the slack so you'll know as soon as we can we have something to share but uh Yeah, I think it's definitely possible. My life grows more complicated by the phase as far as diving goes, as I think Sarah and I are maybe taking a little break from being able to dive together necessarily. But yeah, it's something that I think we've talked a lot about it, and we'd be excited to do it. know there's the local knowledge aspect there's the cost aspect there's the safety aspect and all that kind of thing but i think if you could check all those boxes yeah of course i think it'd be great right yeah i mean i think toronto timepiece show 2026 would just jet up to tobermory for you know half a day before or something would be uh i mean something to do yeah |
| Unknown | not three days but yeah uh yeah a great question and something that we'll continue to work on for sure okay appreciate it i think we had one more here a really simple question for you um might be unfair but it's simple i've seen you guys around the whole show you're looking around uh rj this would be a one i'd like to hear your answer on too what's the favorite thing you've seen what's the best stuff you've seen here what what do you love what did you fall in love with here Thanks. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, I'm struck. I would recommend, there's a lot of great watches out there. The one that really pleasantly surprised me, and it's his first time at the show, is Clements Watches, which is down at the far end on the first floor. He's out of the UK. Good buddy of Ken Lamb's. Tom's a super nice guy, and he makes some really neat watches. And he's just a delightful guy to talk to. And he has the second generation of his photic diver on display. He's kind of scrambled to get it ready for the show. There were some prototypes there with some great colorways. He's got a real knack for design. And like I said, he's just a really nice guy, a great price point. So go check out Clements. I'm a bit biased, but I think the Paul and Mara, like the one I'm wearing, the blue and the black versions are at their booth. And they seem to be really popular with people. So check that out. I got to see Serica for the first time in person. They're upstairs. That was fun. I'm always a fan of Fears, and they've got some of their new stuff up there. So anyway, that's a real cop-out because I listed about six watches just now. But do you have a narrower list? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I wanted to see the Poland Mara in blue. I really like that. I think it's quite sharp. I agree with the photic, especially the black dial with the yellow re-out and bezel. Looks really good. I got to see the latest Doxa, the 750. If you like your Doxas on the bigger side, I think they've really found... really strong balance for thickness and thinness of the case and width and weight and it's nice on the bracelet so again if you prefer a nicer beefier dock so i think that's a good one i i always get really jazzed to see like the space one stuff uh so their world timer is just like incredible and uh the the gentleman at the at the booth today took a moment to explain um like they had an enlarged version of the orbital uh system for the the other model that which is just i'm blanking on the name of it shout it out if you can remember it but the um the tellurium sounds right um and and he was showing it to my daughters and like i think that kind of stuff is because you know we see a lot of watches and and a lot of them you can go like all right i can frame that next to these but when you see something that's like entirely different the bow blue stuff where it's so cool you actually have to like spin the crown to kind of experience how the hands are moving and that's just exciting. And then, you know, me, like any excuse I get to take a UV torch to anything, be it a beefy marathon with giant markers or otherwise just anything that glows in the dark. I charged up the flashlight this morning over breakfast and I was ready. So, yeah, I think it's just nice to see some stuff. Robert, anything stand out for you if you want to jump on the mic quick? |
| Robert Jan Broer | Yes, I saw Awake with the special dials. I think that's really cool to the rectangular fears. But you really need to tackle Bradley Taylor. He's carrying around an amazing watch, really a beautiful watch. |
| James Stacey | I'm excited for when he's able to actually share it, but this might be anyone's opportunity. Great question. Thank you for that. I figure we have time for one more if there is one. Otherwise, we can let everybody get on with what they've got. Or we can try and be quick if there's more, but we are done at four. The cane will come out and pull us right off stage. |
| Unaz from Edmonton | Hey guys, Unaz from Edmonton, Alberta. You might have answered this before, but where was the first place either of you took a breath underwater? And if you had to do one dive site before you were to die, what would that dive site be? Thanks. |
| Jason Heaton | First time I dove, I did a Discover Scuba sort of vacation dive, little short mini course in Cozumel, Mexico. And I remember just going down whatever they take you to, 30 feet or whatever, and there was a barracuda and clear water and it was warm and all the apprehension and speculation about whether I would like it or not just vanished. And I'll never forget that. And then the rest is history. Before I die, the places I want to go, gosh, I have a pretty long list. You mentioned Silfra on a recent episode. Silfra in Iceland. I've got some plans maybe to go next year. I really want to go there. The Red Sea, Truck Lagoon, Scapa Flow in Scotland. Yeah, it's a long list. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, my first one was White Cliff Park in Vancouver, and there were no barracudas, and you couldn't see your glove if you stretched all the way out. We actually descended with, like, holding the BC of my cousin Brendan, and, yeah, we did. It was like diving in pea soup, and the minute I got down there and, like, you know, looked at my Seiko... charged up the the loom the background loom on on a santo zoop i was it was over it didn't matter i couldn't see anything it was so bad like i think we the dive was considerably shorter than maybe was planned for the first sort of shakedown dive but yeah that was that was the first one that uh where we were underwater and then as far as places to dive man i don't have the i don't have the resume that jason has so i you know i just i'm thrilled every time i get in the water sulfur would be up there great barry reef would be up there uh there's definitely some wrecks that i think would be fairly exciting uh including you know i believe it's uh uh the annapolis up in uh in how sound uh and if i only had one i guess left uh uh kelvin grove which i've talked about on the show is a a west coast dive and if you get just the right experience you can go down deep it's super dark you can see an octopus you can come back up and do your safety stop like surrounded by these little silver fish and it's so calm you forget you're underwater you forget you're breathing off of a machine it's it's something else so that would be that would be the one i think about when i close my eyes every now and then well look everybody thank you so much for coming thank you for the questions a huge thank you to all of our guests it's been a real treat thanks everyone for coming and enjoy the rest of the show this weekend |