The Grey NATO – 341 – A Chat with Jack Carr [Former Navy SEAL, Bestselling Author, and Watch Enthusiast]
Published on Thu, 21 Aug 2025 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
In this episode of The Graynado, hosts James Stacey and Jason Heaton have an in-depth conversation with special guest Jack Carr, former Navy SEAL and bestselling author of "The Terminal List" series. The episode opens with some housekeeping announcements about an upcoming Toronto Timepiece Show party and merchandise updates. The main segment features Jason's interview with Carr, where they discuss his passion for watches, including his collection of Citizen Aqualands and Rolex Sea-Dwellers, his journey from Navy SEAL to bestselling author, and the adaptation of his books into TV series starring Chris Pratt. Carr shares insights about his writing process, his early influences from authors like Ian Fleming, and balancing his creative work with public appearances. The episode concludes with final notes about military watches and extreme fishing.
In their conversation, Carr reveals himself to be a passionate watch enthusiast, discussing various timepieces he's owned and their significance in both his military career and writing. He also provides fascinating details about how his experiences as a Navy SEAL inform his writing and how he maintains authenticity in his storytelling while managing an increasingly public profile.
Links
Transcript
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| James Stacey | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 341, and it's proudly brought to you by the always-growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support, and if you are listening and would like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is James Stacey, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host, Jason Heaton. Jason, how are we doing today? I'm doing pretty well. I'm in New York. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, actually, I'm not as we're recording this, but as you're listening to this, if you're up on your episodes and listening on the day this comes out, that's where I am. Yeah, so we're recording this on a Tuesday afternoon, and I fly out tomorrow morning. one of those one of those weeks i haven't traveled in a while and and i'm headed to new york for the launch event for the new pollen mara dive watch um which launches on uh thursday evening at the wind up shop in brooklyn as i've been kind of teasing or talking about the past couple of weeks but i'm excited to go and get on with that should be fun |
| James Stacey | Oh, that's going to be great, man. Yeah. You know, when we were chatting with this briefly on the previous episode that you're going to be in Brooklyn, I was trying to remember the last time we were in New York together. Yeah. And I can't quite place it because it might have been a Doxa event, but I can't remember if you came to either of those. No, I didn't. Those last couple that I went to. And then, you know, there was the time we did Explorers Club and then the really good Thai food. That might have been the last time. That might have been the last time. I mean, man, that's 19? Yeah, it was probably before the pandemic. Yeah, for sure. We've been like October, October 2019. I'd have to go back and look at my phone. But it was a while. Man, I'm happy that you're going to get there. And what a cool thing to be able to check out the wind-up showroom and to help launch a cool new dive watch. That's fun. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I'm excited. Oh, that's super. I just haven't been to New York in a long time. you know as i've said i'm not really a city person but i've never spent any time in brooklyn at all um so we're staying near prospect park um explore the whole area on foot which i always like and uh it's just around the corner from from the wind up shop so very cool should be great i like being i like being nimble and mobile on foot when i go to a big city like that so it should be great |
| James Stacey | Yeah, and it's such an easy place to get around. And if you're near Prospect Park, then you've got a great museum. You've got like a literally endless supply of breweries, cafes, you know, vintage bookstores, thrift shops, like all the good stuff. So I hope you have yourself a proper day. If the weather's good, you're going to have such a good time. Should be great. How about you? You just got back from the cottage about an hour or so ago, you said? Yeah, I don't actually have much to report. Normally, this would be the time of year where you and I would have taken these couple of weeks off. We always do in August leading up to Labor Day. But obviously, all of you listening were kind enough to allow me to take a few weeks when... My son was born back in July, so we're not going to take that break. But I don't I don't think there's like a ton going on. You know, we're getting if you have an inbox, anything like mine, you're getting all the emails about what is coming in September for Geneva watch days and that sort of thing. But there's not like any I haven't at least I haven't seen any like banner releases. as far as watches and stuff go. And then other than that, I'm just trying to maximize my time with my kids and with Sarah and that kind of thing while we're at the cottage. So yeah, we've been up and back and forth and running between errands in the city and getting back up to the cottage and that sort of thing. And it cooled off over the last couple of days, but it was a really nice weekend up there. I'm trying to think if there's anything I talked about that would just be good for an update. Oh, I know I spoke about picking up that anchor. uh, Solix C300, the ACDC, like larger but smaller size of like the portable battery thing. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's been just so useful. Uh, you know, the upstairs of that old cabin that we're in only has one or two plugs and they're the kind of plugs where anything with any weight just falls out. I have to replace them. So yeah, I've been using that a ton. It's really useful. It's very easy to keep charged because it charges so quickly. If it's empty, I believe it charges in just a couple of hours, which is remarkable. And yeah, it's just really handy when my kids need to plug something in, even if we're in the car. And instead of like, who has a cable long enough to get to the cigarette adapter and this kind of thing, it's just like, it's there, turn it on, plug your thing in, it'll run. And I had a good opportunity a couple of times this weekend to use the O-Clip. uh ultra the flashlight i spoke about on the last one i'm super happy with it it does literally the same thing as the cheap one the the entry-level o-clip yeah but the extra power is kind of nice if you're you know out in the back uh back 40 there and and kicking around a bit in the dark or need to go in somewhere that we're just where a little bit of extra lumens helps but uh just a very handy thing so those are my kind of my quick updates |
| Jason Heaton | Well, and speaking of darkness, I mean, the days are getting shorter. It's really noticeable now. I notice it because I get up early to walk the dog. And I noticed today's sunrise was like 620, which, you know, I mean, I used to be out and back by then. And it was quite light by that time. But, yeah, it's that time of year when you start to feel it. You start to feel the shortening days. And you do need a good light like that. Yeah, cool. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, and then as far as kind of housekeeping for the show, we've got a few things to go over. The first is if you're coming to the Toronto Timepiece Show, which is the third weekend in September, the 20th and the 21st, the evening of the 21st, we are hosting another party with Marathon, and we would love to have you there. The RSVP link is in the show notes for this episode. I mean, like we have a wider capacity than we did last year and it's already filling up quickly. So by all means, if you can make it, if you can hang out for the Sunday evening, if you can leave Monday morning, something like that, please do. We would love to see you at the party, the show. The RSVP link is in the show notes. If you have any questions, feel free to drop me an email at thegraynado.gmail.com or DM if you're on the Slack. |
| Jason Heaton | It's so worth it to try to make that party. I mean, you know, now we've got one under our belts and... Last year was just so great that the turnout, the food, the drinks, just the camaraderie. And, you know, this is not, if you think this is kind of a really overly branded event with lots of speeches and presentations, it's not. Marathon is a wonderful partner and they get it. They just love to kind of host this sort of thing. And they've just been such a great collaborator. And last year was just so, so fun. So, yeah, if you can at all make it, give it a try. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, there's no PowerPoint presentations. There's no signing up for an email mailing list. It's hanging out at somebody's beautiful home, eating some great food. I'm going to order up some local beer. There'll be some great wine on site as well. And I think last year we capped our little hello to the crew at about three minutes. And you all know that's remarkable for me. I've already been talking for seven on this episode. So Yeah, no, it'll be a really good one. And it is a genuine hangout. There's no real agenda. So if you can make it, hit the link in the show notes and RSVP. And that way you'll get all the details about where it is and what time and that sort of thing. Jason, why don't you let people know a little bit about our push for Q&A questions? Because we're getting a ton. It's really good. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, yeah. Everybody's been responding. We've put out a call for questions in the past few episodes because we're ramping up... When James is kind of back on the clock a little more full time after US Labor Day, I guess, you know, into September, we're going to start really hitting it hard with with some Q&A episodes and start incorporating those for our subscriber feed. And we still need questions. So if you do have. that burning question about, you know, a watch or an adventure, a piece of gear, anything, food, you know, you name it. We've had some fun questions over the years. Please do send it. Just record it into the voice memo app on your phone and send it off to thegraynado at gmail.com and we'll add it to the queue and get to it in one of the upcoming Q&A episodes through the end of the year. |
| James Stacey | That's great. Cool, cool. And then finally, we have been getting a lot of messages about merchandise, swag, hats, that sort of stuff. We've tried to be patient with the tariff scenario and trying to understand what that means for the partner we use for that stuff, which is Printful. That seems to be largely... evening out not not forever but for most places evening out as far as the what you can expect for taxes and that sort of stuff so we are now planning to launch our next uh collection of swag it's a big collection uh co-designed as we have in the past with someone who is very close to the tgn crew and a name many of you will recognize from the slack I'm really excited for this. We've sat on it for some time because of the complexities with kind of the changing scenario of shipping things around the world. And at this point, we figure we'll just pull the trigger sometime in September. So you should be less than a month away from the ability to order up, you know, theoretically a new hat, T-shirts, and maybe even some other very exciting things for your home and your body and that sort of thing. It should be a fun one, but I did want to put that on people's radar. We're endeavoring to have that, you know, announced around the time of the Toronto Time Peace Show. So in about a month's time. Exciting stuff. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Well, we've got an exciting episode coming up, but let's do a quick risk check before we dive into it. |
| James Stacey | So what did you wear? I mean, I can probably guess based on who our guest is, at least what I would have worn had I been on this chat. But you thankfully took the call, and I'm super excited to play this one. But what did you wear for the chat? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I wore predictably my Tudor Pelagos FXD. It's been kind of my go-to for months now. It was the one that won our early in the year kind of tournament, if you will, where we were kind of narrowing things down to one watch. I wore it for a month and then some. I've just been wearing it a lot this summer, but it was a very fitting choice for my chat with Jack Carr because we both participated in that tournament. um, tutor splashdown story a few weeks back and, uh, you know, tutors near and dear to both of us. So I wore that and, and you'll have to wait and listen to what, uh, what Jack had on. It's a, it's a cool choice as well. So, um, good stuff. Yeah. How about you? What do you have on? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I don't really want to put the brakes on the progression towards that conversation, so I'll be very quick. It's still summer for me. I'm leaning in. I'm wearing the Doxa Sub 200T Diving Star. And yeah, I've been waiting a little while for that Nomos to arrive, which is going to be kind of my watch of the summer. We thought it would be here sometime in July. Still isn't here yet, so still waiting on that. In that case, I'm sticking with the nice bright yellow dial. So it's the Doxa on the, I don't know, $15 mesh from Etsy. |
| Jason Heaton | Man, yeah, holding on to summer with that one. That's a great summer watch, especially on the mesh. That's cool. Good choice. |
| James Stacey | All right, we don't have to belabor what watch I've been wearing this summer. It's been a good one for all sorts of watches, but let's absolutely jump into the chat with Jack Carr. Jason, how did this come about? And why don't you give people an intro, just in case they don't happen to know this fellow's name, which is doubtful, but we'll see. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, Jack Carr is a pretty familiar name, especially I get the sense in our TGN crew. I think he's quite a popular figure. He's a former Navy SEAL and a best-selling author. And, you know, we've kind of... Kind of been moving in the same spheres over the past few years just due to Jack's intense interest in watches. And you're going to pick up on his enthusiasm right off the bat in this talk. But then his involvement with the recent splashdown story with Tudor. He was actually in the film that Tudor produced. And he helped me out with a little bit of fact checking for my article for Hodinkee. Our good buddy, Cole Pennington from Tudor actually made an introduction, a formal introduction over email between myself and Jack and Jack graciously agreed to pull some, you know, an hour out of his extremely busy schedule. He was right off a plane from Chicago. And before that he was in Morocco and some other places. I mean, he's just all over the place these days, but he was kind enough to sit down and, and, spent an hour talking about watches and his work and writing and reading and all that stuff. But yeah, I'm going to pull, I'm just going to read his kind of bio right from his website because it's a good one. From a young age, Jack Carr had two dreams, serving his country in uniform as a Navy SEAL and becoming an author. Following 20 years in the SEAL teams, Jack shifted his sights to publishing and fulfilled his literary objective with the release of his debut novel, The Terminalist, which was adapted into the number one Amazon Prime video series starring Chris Pratt. It's a little out of date on his website because it says it's currently filming a second season based on Jack's novel, True Believer, Dark Wolf. But the fact is it actually premieres almost exactly a week from when this episode goes up on August 27th. And that's with Taylor Kitsch in kind of a bigger role. Carr has continued to captivate readers worldwide with the gripping tales of James Reese and his New York Times bestselling novels, True Believer, Savage Son, The Devil's Hand, In the Blood, Only the Dead, and Red Sky Morning. Wow, that's prolific. Believe it or not, 2018 was when he published Terminalist and he's written all of those since then. That's quite an achievement. And the next Terminal List series thriller, Cry Havoc, hits shelves October 7th, 2025. And I'm thrilled to say that I just received an early kind of pre-published galley edition this morning for me to take a peek at. So I'm excited for that. Jack is also a watch enthusiast. And as I mentioned, he appeared in that Tudor video splashdown about the UDT swimmers' involvement in the Apollo space capsule recoveries. And just an all-around fun guy to talk to. And I think people are going to be absolutely thrilled with this talk with Jack Carr. So here we go. All right, Jack Carr, welcome to The Graynado. This feels like a momentous occasion for us. And we're really pleased to have you on. Thanks so much for taking the time today. |
| Jack Carr | Oh man, momentous occasion for me too. I'm a huge fan of your stuff. And I got, of course, your books right here. Oh, that warms my heart. uh, congratulations on these. And I think the, uh, cause I bought them myself and then I read out as soon as I found out about them. So years, a couple of years ago now, but then I think what I got, uh, when I got the Aqua star, it also came with as well. Cause I have multiple of your, so I got the watch as well. So, uh, it was awesome to, uh, talk to you. And, uh, uh, yeah, especially cause I know you're also a fan of one of my favorites. right here. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, there it is. The Aqualand. |
| Jack Carr | Yep. And it was one that DC vintage watches got for me because I have my original and it's somewhere in this house. It is somewhere in a box from all these movies. And I just love this water in the early nineties. And I got certified as a scuba diver when I was nine. Somehow my dad certified me when I was nine, got certified up in Northern California and some cold water there. Then out to Hawaii, to Kauai. Yeah. five divers, I believe is the name of the shop and like down first dive with them down to a hundred feet. But, uh, then I got, I got certified over the years with, uh, Patty. Now he, uh, what is SSI? It's been a long time, uh, military stuff, but I got one of these in the early nineties and I love the best watch. It is such a great watch worth like a decade. And then, um, I got to the steel teams. We got the, the Casio G shocks and just really started wearing those primarily for the whole time that I was in the 20 years that I was in, but I love this watch. I mean, it was such a great tool, such a great tool. |
| Jason Heaton | The fatal flaw is the, the short battery life. And then all those little screws on the back that you have to, when you change the battery, there's like three batteries, which would turn yours over. Let me see the back of yours. |
| Jack Carr | This is, this is the one that, uh, his watch has got for me. My, my original is here somewhere. I just don't. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | When it comes time to change the three batteries in there, just don't lose those little screws. Oh, interesting. |
| Jack Carr | I think I must have taken it to a jeweler, my original. I don't remember. Yeah, that's a good idea. But then this one came out, too. This one came out, and I think maybe we talked about it on Direct Message or something, and I was trying to find this, and I don't know if it came out in the United States or was delayed here or something like that. |
| Jason Heaton | The loom dial. We like to say we had a part in that. James and I were really keen on that. I got mine on eBay from Italy, and then James got his from Citizen Direct, and then we're like, you've got to bring this into the country, and we got kind of this... this sort of uptick in interest and they, they started selling them. |
| Jack Carr | So they did. Okay. God, cause I got this one for also from overseas somehow. And then they did this one. They did like a, uh, uh, like a, kind of a anniversary edition or something that just came out. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. The 40th anniversary. Yeah. Yeah. The two tone. Yeah. Great. But, uh, I knew I had to pick one up, um, because one of my greatest. regrets. Uh, and where is that somewhere around here? I know I have it is, uh, I know I grabbed it earlier this morning, but, uh, is my, um, Kronosport UDT timer because it was like $350 back in, you know, the late eighties, early nineties. And that was a lot of money. I was like, might as well bet $3 million. And so I didn't, I never got one. And then I got, when I got to the SEAL teams, I started getting them when eBay was in its, I guess, in its infancy and found a couple there. But I'm still looking for that new inbox that someone has put in a bag somewhere and it's in, never really wore it and it's in an attic. I'm looking for that Chronosport UDT timer new inbox. So it's- |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I'll tell you, we're off on the watch tangent right off the bat, and I love it. There's a kind of buddy, TGN listener, et cetera, who I know, who had this, you know, Breitling made a version of the UDT. It was basically a rebrand. It was called the Navitimer 3100, and it was basically a Chronosport UDT. And he had one on the, I remember the Hershey bar Breitling rubber strap. It looked kind of the embossed Breitling name in the strap. And he had it in a box, new old stock. And he said, you know, if you want it, you can buy it from me. So I've got it. I'll send you a picture of it. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, it's pretty cool. The analog digital era was such a great era for watches. Yeah, so. |
| Jack Carr | It was on, I think, Sylvester Stallone wore it in Rambo 3. And then it was in the Brigade Quartermaster catalog, for those who remember, in U.S. Cavalry. And then at the local dive shops as well. So I knew it before the internet. |
| Jason Heaton | Let's stay on this trail, this train of thought here. What are you wearing today? You showed me, but we're on audio strictly for the podcast. |
| Jack Carr | So this is the Sea-Dweller. It's one that I wear most often. It's from 1980. Oh, man. It was actually a gift from my dad when I graduated from Bud's. Oh, that's fantastic. It's one right here. It's what I wear the most often. It has a nice scratch on it that's from my wife's diamond. Oh, wow. Was that intentional or maybe, maybe, uh, that's pretty much where, where most often, um, just because for the, for so long. Um, and, uh, and it's, it's, I don't think I've ever sent it in. If I did, it was right, you know, off the bat because it was, cause he got it used. Um, they called it used back then, uh, pre-owned or whatever they call it. Yeah. Yeah. But back in 1997, when I graduated from buds, um, think how it really wasn't that old back then. And now I just think how old this is, but it's been, uh, it's been around, it's been around the block with me and I do that for the most part, but I've been wearing the, um, this, the, uh, what is it? Is that right? Oh yeah. Beautiful. Cause this is what I put in the books. This is the one that has a, is, is so closely tied to my books. character and the dad gets it in vietnam and i explain how he gets it in this latest novel cry havoc oh nice i think originally i had him like getting into the px or something and then i got to this part in the book and i'm like that's not very exciting i'm like he needs to get this another way so i have this poker game uh between him as a seal and these project delta guys in vietnam and uh the watch oh that's great so it's a it's a whole it's a whole thing so i was a lot recently i really like it and obviously the bracelet is a lot like moves you know as you know it's uh a little you know i wouldn't lose yeah So it does that. And then, uh, and then for the, for the, uh, the, the tutor project that we did that you wrote about great, amazing art way. Thank you so much. Yeah. Doing that. And I always wanted tutors because when I got to the seal teams, guys were, they still had a couple of these and cause they were issuing them in the sixties and seventies, uh, UDT seal teams. And there were still a few of these around and, and I heard the rumor and of course you've heard it too. And I just, I don't know, cause I didn't see it with my own eyes that they were taking the hammer to these things for some reason. Oh yeah. Yeah. Those stories. And I didn't see it, but I heard it from people who say they saw it. And that's, you know, back in 97, when I first got to my, my SEAL team and a couple of guys had them and I was like, man, I bet you supply. And they were, there was nothing for me. Uh, but, uh, but so I finally got one, uh, just recently and then got the, uh, It's the straps that come with it. Guys that got them in Philippines, I guess, back in the day. Oh, the Olongapo. Yeah, they didn't look at my wrist, so I took it off and put on a little NATO-type strap for me. So I got that on there. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I've got one of those, too. I had a Snowflake Tudor Sub from 76, and I've sold it last year, but I had mine on that same cuff, the Olongapo band, and we did this project in late 23 when this one was released, the FXD Black. Oh, nice. I have mine. |
| Jack Carr | Mine's downstairs right now. |
| Jason Heaton | I think I wear it 90% of the time at this one. Is that, is that a, no, because this is the FXD. So this is the one with the fixed bars that can only use a, yeah, which I just, I adore. I mean, to me, it's the perfect watch. Like I like fixed bars. I don't, I mean, I've got a similar vintage Submariner to your sea dweller that I love on that rattly bracelet. It's just, it's so comfortable to wear. but um the fxd is just such a i don't it clicks all the boxes for me so that's what i wear a lot of but i i love your article have you worn like how many watches have you worn diving over the years how many different ones is like i'm an article i counted over 200 yeah yeah yeah it's i mean yeah it became a weird thing i mean it's it's just a niche career you know i mean you're no stranger to that sort of thing and it's just you know you you find your niche and you just kind of keep keep getting narrower and narrower and that that's been my that was my thing i've kind of backed away from it a little bit but it's uh yeah it's been fun and i've got i've got my favorites and you know some that i don't talk about much but |
| Jack Carr | Oh, that's so great. I love the articles and the photos that go along with them are all fantastic and inspiring to get, you know, me and I'm sure, you know, untold thousands of others out there back into diving for the first time or in analog type watches and using them. And I think it's just, it's fantastic. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I'd love to, I'd love to dig in a little bit. Like when you, um, you said you graduated from buds in 97, did you say? Yeah. since we're talking about watches, had you been into watches before that? Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then, and then you were into, you were using G shocks, right? Yeah. And then, you know, this was before the internet kind of exploded with, with the stuff we do now, you know, the Houdinkies and the Instagram stuff and all that, like, you know, what was that period like for you? Was it, was it just. |
| Jack Carr | You just had a couple that you were keen on or what? Yeah, I know from the earliest ages, my earliest age, I can remember for whatever reason being into watches. And I think maybe was seeing an old, it was an Explorer and it pains me so, so bad because my dad sold it and he got it in the sixties in, in Europe. and then uh so you have to pay taxes on it he put it on his wrist and you know wore it back wore it back in oh sure and he wore that my whole life so i'd always see this watch that he had and then also i'm about uh gosh i'm six years old or so when magnum comes out and uh watching magnum pi and of course the first now the Rolex that most people associate with him today. Um, you know, he has a different watch on at the beginning of Kronosport and, uh, the first three. Anyway, he has that for the first couple episodes or seasons. And, uh, but it was even then it was a, it was a part of the show. And then it really becomes a part of the show. Um, and home from the sea when he's like, he's looking at that, that GMT and he's out and down the minutes and he's thinking back to his dad. And it's a very emotional episode. One of the best episodes of TV ever, ever. I just watched that on the 4th of July. I do. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Because it's a 4th of July show. Yeah, that's great. |
| Jack Carr | Exactly. I think there was something there and then seeing, oh, my dad has that, you know, it's not the same, but it's a Rolex. And so I think there's something in me from a very early age about watches. And then I'm watching Bond early on. And of course, Goldfinger back then, an RCA video disc player for those who remember. or analog. And for those who immediately bumped to a laser disc, no, not laser disc, video disc player, which was like a record that you had to go in 45 minutes or 35 minutes, whatever it was, you had to go in and like push this big plastic thing into the machine, pull it out, flip it over, put it back in, take it out and leave. It's essentially a record in there. yeah we had those and so back then i'm watching goldfinger of course and uh and seeing that that cell there and and yeah which i always just noticed it i don't know what the why the watches stood out for me so much but they just did and uh yeah i've always been fascinated with with time and uh how precious it it is and you know these things obviously represent that so uh and then the later ones of course you get roger moore coming coming on board and and you have you know the digital stuff and you know things kind of you know my little kid through all of that and uh and so i got a digital watch and i wish i still had it i know i would never have thrown it out it's uh it's like a stainless um calculator watch and what do you and the bands that are like you know stainless or whatever but they're elastic What are those called? Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Those things. Stretchy. |
| Jack Carr | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Like, yeah, I know what you mean. |
| Jack Carr | It came on one of those. And I really wanted it so bad. And, and I, and I was probably like five or six. I think it was six. It was first grade, I think. First or second grade. And so I got one of those and loved it. And then even when MacGyver came out back in, like in, in junior high timeframe. Yeah. What did he wear? Like he had, I don't exactly sure what he wore, but I got something similar from. L.L. Bean. And it was a Hamilton type of a type of a thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know exactly what it was, but I should still have that in a box as well because I never throw anything out. So they've just always been a part of my of my life from those earliest days. And I had some G-Shocks before I got to the Navy as well. um i remember they did a thing with uh uh with speed when keanu reeves came out and though he didn't have that new newer style g-shock back then but they used it as a promotion for that he had the he had an old old school one oh yeah you could get it with your i think you said in a proof of purchase of your vhs tape or something and i did that so anyway watch has always been a been a part of my life from the my earliest days but so i'm curious you know we we |
| Jason Heaton | both had different roles in that Tudor splashdown project. You were in the film and, and, you know, on the Hornet when they were doing the filming, et cetera. And you, you had that quote about, you know, the, how these, these guys use these things and they, they bear the stories and there are these mementos of the time that they spent, et cetera. as someone who served and and was in the seals debunk the myth or or maybe confirm the myth that that wearing an analog watch is just not practical in the era that you were serving like was g-shock just almost 99 of the guys and like was there any practical reason or any did you ever want to wear just an analog watch or was that just not even an option so i didn't um i took it this on deployment with me but i never wore it because i didn't want it to be like a vanity thing |
| Jack Carr | for me to just say that I wore it on an op type of deal. Even though watches weren't... You knew the watch guys. There was no Instagram or anything like that yet. There was nothing that would be influencing you to do these things. They were genuinely loved watches and you just found those guys. You could talk about watches or whatever. There weren't all these... know smaller watch companies popping up and and all that stuff it was there was none of that but for me i i always wore my g-shock in real life yeah it was so i could i could just manipulate it without even looking at it i knew exactly how many buttons to do this or countdown stopwatch for whatever else like i just knew it so well and it was so basic um that i that i just loved it so and in my mind i'm like man I just don't want, even though this was, you know, odds of this happening are about 0%, but I was like, man, I would never want something like glint off this, this, uh, right. And like cause something to happen or didn't want it at just, just because I have a vanity thing, but guys did wear them, you know, I guess more later on, I think I didn't see anybody really wearing them in real life, but yeah, guys did. I think it was more after my time or when I was getting out or had already moved on from the tactical side and was getting out of the Navy. Um, I think that, uh, more and more. but uh i mean certainly obviously from the beginning of time not from being a time but from you know world war ii and onward in vietnam here's a being these guys were wearing right here if people were wearing this this seiko right here and uh yeah vietnam with that compass right there the waltham company oh my gosh oh that's gorgeous yeah that's the one that's in my latest book cry havoc so uh yeah so have that one and then this is the one obviously made popular by apocalypse now the seiko right there uh 6105 yeah yeah i so so obviously people did wear them but i just thought it was more practical for me and i was always about being as practical and as efficient as an effective as possible so for me it was always the uh what i wore into combat was always or on operations was always the uh the g-shock and first what's the uh just the one the the hockey puck one well the |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I'm not a G-Shock guy. I've never owned a G-Shock. I tried one of the Frogman ones just because I liked the name and I thought it was the dive one. But I just I couldn't warm up to it. I think the original DW 5600, which is kind of the OG kind of square one. I think that's the only one I could do. |
| Jack Carr | Yeah. I love that. We had issued those in buds and I can't believe I didn't grab it downstairs. You know what? I pulled it out and I didn't run up here with it. But so I, I got those issued in buds in second phase and dive phase. So first phase is just kind of making sure you want to be there and have hell week and all that stuff. Then you get to dive phase where you actually start learning how to dive first open circuit and then closed circuit. But they issued you a watch in second phase. So you get that, that G shock. And then I, on a. I can't believe I left it downstairs, but it was an Australian company and it was a band called Waterman, I want to say. Waterborne. Waterborne. That's it. Yeah. With the big loops. Yeah, exactly. I loved it. And it wouldn't fit. You had to use your knife and make a little cut and then take it wider and do that and put it on there. But I love that. And actually, I did want to dive once. My watch did break off, but it held on because of that. Oh, okay. Yeah. on one side was still, was still there. Um, so I wore that primarily and then, uh, and then I switched over later on to the, whatever the larger one was that has the big button for the light on there. So I went over to that eventually. |
| Jason Heaton | So how would you use, how would you use a G-Shock on deployment or, you know, in an operation? Like, what are you using typically? Is it the stopwatch, a countdown timer, an alarm? I mean, obviously the light, but like, are you actually using it day to day, like regularly? Uh, you're using it as an alarm to wake you up. |
| Jack Carr | It's right next to you for me is what I did. So I always had it next to my bed. I actually have one next to my bed downstairs right now. And I travel with one, uh, because those ones in hotel rooms and everything are so bright. So I cover those things with a tape because sometimes they're hard to unplug these days. So I just, so I know. I can just lean over and click it. So I do travel with one. I don't really wear it. It's just in my backpack and I put it by the bed when I travel and then I have one at home next to the bed as well. So certainly there's an alarm to get you up, that sort of thing. Stopwatch for time on target and then just time. So fairly basic, which are, you know, that's really the... the basic functions of that watch what is it time it's stopwatch it's countdown timer and it's alarm i think those are the i think that's it for me that was all that i needed and i could do it essentially in my sleep just by feel so that was the that was the that was it was definitely a tool watch for me and it worked for me downrange |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. |
| Jack Carr | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Let's talk a little bit about writing for a bit. Um, I'm curious, you know, your, your background, I've read your, you know, kind of your bio on your website and said, when you were a kid, you wanted to be two things. You wanted to serve your country in the military and you wanted to be a writer and your service in the military came first, um, or did it, I mean, did you, were you writing early on before that? |
| Jack Carr | Or was it something more importantly? And I was a librarian, so I grew up surrounded by books and a love of reading. My background here, that has stayed. I've never been, like, not been reading a book, usually both fiction and nonfiction kind of at the same time. Not two fiction and not two nonfiction at the same time, but one fiction, one non. And it was as natural for me to read growing up as it was to do anything else. And my parents made it that way from the beginning. So reading has been important. to every aspect of my life. I mean, it was foundational to going into the SEAL teams because I got to read. And at the time, there's no internet yet. So you can't look up, you know, what are the different phases of buds, you know, so I could read all these books at the time, usually about people's experience in Vietnam, not just SEALs, but Army Special Forces as well. And I was reading everything I could possibly find on terrorism, on insurgencies, on counterinsurgencies, just warfare in general. So I wanted to prepare myself because I knew what I was going to do from age seven onward. And I knew I was going to serve my country in uniform, specifically in the SEAL teams. Got that from Magnum as well. The power of culture. Yeah, power of popular culture, which is why it's so important for kids these days, who they follow and they don't even really watch movies anymore. So true. Those were so influential to me back then. And then, of course, to say nothing of reading books. So I knew where I was going and I wanted to prepare myself for that. So I'm reading everything I can find on Warfare. And then I'm also reading all the fiction I can find in fifth grade is about the time I make that transition from young adult fiction that we're reading, like the Farley Moets and that sort of thing over into the books my parents are reading. So that's when Humphrey Red October came out when I was in fifth grade. And then I discovered David Morrell through... rambo first blood part two and then i read and i watched the movie first blood um and i found brotherhood of the rose fraternity of the stone league of night and fog i find david morel i find jc pollock i find all these guys and a lot of them i found through films because at the time you can't just look stuff up it either had to be in the bookstore or in the library uh essentially on the shelf and the cover jumps out to you perhaps and then you go you read that back cover and say oh that sounds interesting i can't wait to read this this sounds like you know a book x y or z that i really loved and uh and so i just was reading all of those and it was interesting because the protagonists of that era usually had backgrounds in vietnam so they were either a navy seal army special forces marine recon a sniper uh cia paramilitary type of person in vietnam and then that allows them now to deal with problems that they're dealing with let's say in in the pages of a novel or even on tv i mean all the all those characters that we grew up with in in the 80s from magnum to uh into my right 18 uh simon and like all these characters ball guy even like they had background right in in vietnam And that was just like what that was the background of characters back then. So I was reading all those books. And what I didn't realize at the time is they were becoming those authors were becoming my professors in the art of storytelling. And and I really don't think I could have prepared myself better for what I'm doing now. But it came from a genuine place. It came from the love of reading and the love of these stories. Not because I was at, let's say, 12 years old and saying, I'm going to read this book because, you know, 30 years. to write one and this will be very, very helpful to me. Yeah. Not that at all. It's just that I love the stories in those pages, love the characters. And I knew that I wanted to do that one day. And also it was part of the draw was that I thought at the time that you could write a book, you send it to New York, they publish it, maybe you do one interview and then you go back to writing your next book. So you can lock yourself in a cabin in the mountains. And that was a huge draw for me. I'm very, I mean, I think I had to teach myself to be more extroverted in the SEAL teams just to voice her type of a thing. But yeah, we're comfortable just being by myself in a cabin in the mountains. And then, of course, I creep up on the publication of my first novel in 2018. And I realize, oh, the landscape has changed. The environment has changed. You're now in competition with not only every movie or TV show that has ever been made that is now available in the palm of someone's hand anytime they want to see it. But you have the most powerful corporations in the history of mankind that are now distracting people with apps and everything else. So readership is it is steep. Right. And now I'm stepping into this space where I'm going to be an author. And I realize, OK, if I'm going to I have to do more than I thought I was going to have to do. OK, what can I do? Well, what did I do downrange? I looked at the battlefield. and i realized how can i cap ask myself how can i capitalize on momentum how can i um what are the gaps in the enemy's defenses how is the enemy adapting to us and how can we adapt faster and so i applied that to publishing and thought okay well there are some things that authors didn't have to do in the 80s and 90s that you can do today in order that will allow you to share this journey with people who are interested. So I dove in on the social side of the house, on the, on the podcasts and these sorts of things. I really want to provide people something of value throughout the year so that you're, you're sharing this, you're sharing your journey. You know, maybe you can inspire some people along the way. I try to be very thoughtful about, about all I do, but then when it comes time for the book to come out, they're invested in, in you as a, as an author. And that's something that |
| Jason Heaton | authors didn't have to do in the 80s and 90s even early 2000s yeah i was curious i was going to ask you that because you know writing is such a solitary introvert activity and and you've become let's face it something of a celebrity and you've got the podcast and you've got tv shows and you've got bestselling books and it's kind of forced you to be a public facing figure. Your face is known, your voice is known, et cetera. And I've just wondered how you balance that. It's obviously become more comfortable for you, I'm guessing. I mean, you just described before we started recording the schedule you had to keep in Paris and Morocco and Chicago. I mean, you're... That's so different from sitting in a cabin writing a book. |
| Jack Carr | It is. It is. And that part is great. You know, we were filming True Believer, my second novel, filming that out in Morocco. And then just by way of Paris, hitting the UFC fight with Dark Wolf, the new series that comes out August 27th. uh, that was sponsoring the fight. So we got to bring my family and go into the Octagon and all that stuff. And it was really cool to see how many people, uh, have, have been impacted by the books and not just the books, but the podcast too. People mentioned the podcast so often when I meet them, but, uh, in that audience, so many people were like shouting out and getting pictures and this whole thing. It was, it was crazy. Um, I think I'm much more, I'm much more comfortable. I mean, I much rather just be in the cabin. Um, I want to provide for my family. And we have a middle child with really severe special needs who needs 24-7 full-time care forever, which is expensive. So if I want to make sure that he's taken care of for a lifetime of full-time care, I have to go all in on this. And that means things that I'm uncomfortable with. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Right. Right. Well, you do a good job at it. I mean, you're, you know, you've, you're, you're playing the game. Well, that's great. Um, one of the authors you didn't mention in your, you know, you're kind of listing these authors that influenced you. I have a bit of a controversial statement to make on my end. And that is I am for a watch nerd and an adventure thriller fan and writer myself. I. I'm not a Clive Cussler fan. You're not? |
| Jack Carr | It's on your website or on your bio. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know. It's in the tradition. I mean, I consider myself part of this, but I've tried a couple and there's something about Dirk Pitt that I just find a little too, I don't want to say unrealistic. He's too good at everything and too good looking and too savvy. And I always want a little bit of a flaw, you know, and I think maybe that's that was Kessler's era. You know, a lot of the, you know, in Bond has his flaws, but he's he by and large always comes out on top and has the witty comeback, etc. I think you're familiar. I mean, I know James Reese is a flawed character. |
| Jack Carr | Yeah. Oh yeah. No, I know what you're talking about. And I got there. |
| Jason Heaton | Here's a little, of course, Doxa sub T 300 T. This is the one from 2000. |
| Jack Carr | Um, when I, when Doxa came back on the scene, I know when they, exactly when they came back on the scene, but this is the edition that they did back in actually 2000, 2001 timeframe. Well, somewhere, somewhere in there. Yeah. And I did like that he had the watch. So I even have, I do have all the Clive Cusslers. I have all the, all those authors I mentioned that influenced me. So I had paperbacks back then so I couldn't afford hardcovers, but now I'm collecting all the hardcover editions of the Tom Flancy's and AJ Quinnell's and JC Pollock's and Mark Olin and Stephen Hunter and David Murrell, all those guys, first edition signed in the other room, all there and Clive Cussler as well. I've hit Jack Higgins, Alistair McLean. I got them all in there, but I got these two. So. oh sure yeah these ones i know and then uh peter miller's books yeah i got these two right there so yeah pete's a good yeah he's good i love that i love the um i love it uh when a character is associated because it says something about them the watch that they were obviously were preaching to the choir on this on this podcast but it's not just that like for me it's it's also the car somebody drives that tells me something about them like somebody pulls up in a Mercedes G-Wagon, AMG thing, whatever. It tells something about people up in an old Land Cruiser. It tells me something about them. Same thing with a pistol someone decides to carry. What are they carrying to protect this gift of life? How do they carry it? Is it a 1911 carried cotton-locked in a leather holster on a leather belt? Or is it a modern striker fire pistol, polymer-type setup in a Kydex holster on a nylon belt? Yeah. Those sorts of things like tell me some things about the era or something about them, who they may have trained with, like all of those, all of those things. Um, so I use that in the books as well. And, and I like how, how, uh, how Claude Kessler did that. He had his own docs that from working in a dive shop and that right into the, uh, into the books. And I think it's mentioned in all books, but maybe one. And, uh, uh, maybe it's all. but it's certainly almost all of them. |
| Jason Heaton | It's what I liked about the Fleming books. I mean, he's certainly of his era and has his flaws, but I always appreciated his very spare writing style, but also his attention to detail and his descriptions of very specific... products without feeling like he's placing products but it just lent this authenticity to yeah the characters in the mood you know and and you learn something about it you know the marshall driving lights on the bentley or whatever and it's like you don't know that he drove a bentley in the first few you know yeah right right yeah yeah it was one day by the way uh what's your favorite uh bond novel |
| Jack Carr | You know, it's strange. It's probably Moonraker. Same here. People associate Moonraker with the movie and they're kind of like, that's the one that went off their reservation or whatever. Yeah, yeah. The book is spectacular. Which is not the book because you get the crack. But so I do like that. I like Casino Royale just because it kicked off, you know, one of the most successful franchises in film and publishing history. So I do like that just because it's foundational. Moonraker, I had to choose one |
| Jason Heaton | i got them right here actually i got them all right oh man there they are yeah oh yeah and several editions of them i've got the same those those folio editions with the illustrations those are great they're like the paper oh yeah the paperbacks yeah and they continue with the novels as you go oh my god |
| Jack Carr | yeah for those that are listening jack is showing me his his incredible library multi-level library with ladders and multiple editions of all these authors this is great this is great these guys too so this is uh this is where you got the the name james bond right here birds of the oh yeah yeah i've got that same edition same with a green cover yeah yeah the guide to gun collecting this has became q um oh sure booth right yeah right that's oh that's yeah Someone made me this and sent it to me as a gift. The, uh, Thunderball thing. This is a, uh, I got 3d printed little, uh, little bit. |
| Jason Heaton | Okay. So I, I got a story about that too. I have one of those as well. And I bought it from a guy that I saw you posing in a picture with recently. I bought it from David Zariski. |
| Jack Carr | Oh, really? |
| Jason Heaton | I think somebody else made that for me, but yeah. he had one, I know, you know, of him or no, he was selling his years ago, I think it was on Instagram and I just pinged him and I bought it from him. So yeah, I've got that somewhere. I don't know where that is. Anyway. Oh, I've still got it in the cigar tube, but yeah. |
| Jack Carr | Oh, fantastic. |
| Jason Heaton | That's awesome. |
| Jack Carr | Yeah. And this is just a 3d printed one. He might have like an actual like prop or something. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Right. Yeah. The one I have isn't, but it's, it's fun. Yeah. I should, I should take it on dive trips and just like free dive with it and spook people. Yeah. Just pretend. |
| Jack Carr | Yeah. But, uh, I bet it's that Clyde Kessler. I just love, you know, I, I respect like what he built. It's just incredible. Yeah. And he really was one of the first people to do that one a year type of a book thing. Before that, it really wasn't expected that you'd have a book a year. I mean, Fleming did it, but there weren't that many authors that were doing a book a year. Jean-Luc, right? Didn't do one a year. And he almost normalized it with a recurring character and then caught on and more people started doing it. So... I like to I like to kind of give my little tip of the hat to authors of the past and just know where some of the things came from that we're building upon today as authors. Then it's always shocking to me how many people that are writing today don't know the history of their genre. I actually read in the sixth grade. I read Most Dangerous Game by Richard Connell, which was a short story that he wrote back in 1924, 23. Anyway, in the early 20s. And I told myself back in sixth grade that one day I would write a thriller that paid tribute to that short story. And that was my third novel, Savage Son. I actually wanted to start with that one, but I realized characters weren't developed enough to be able to just start out there. And I got to do that with my third novel. But it started way back in... in sixth grade when I told myself I'll explore through the dynamic of hunter and hunted. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I've got a recommendation for you. Maybe you've read this. It was a book written back. It's a British novelist from the fifties or sixties called rogue male. |
| Jack Carr | Oh yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Rogue male. You've read that. Oh yeah. It's the guy that was on the run in the English countryside. I think he's hiding out. |
| Jack Carr | It goes into the, uh, uh, little, not, not a cave, but a, um, uh, yes. A burrow, a burrow. Actually, in Savage Son, I used some language from Rogue Mail specifically to pay tribute to that book. So it was really the eve of World War II, essentially. And these are really time machines, going back and reading the book. It takes you back to 1939 when you go back to The Most Dangerous Game, takes you back to the early 20s. First Blood takes you back to the early 70s. So all these books are really time machines. The Fleming ones, of course, back to the 50s and then into the 60s. But for me, I look at them like that as time machines. And it's so much fun to be able to get into those pages and be transported back. And, you know, maybe someday my novels will take people back to 2018, 2019, 2020. Right. Yeah. But I think it's important to not read the books of the past through the lens of today, if that makes sense. You really need to read them through the lens of the time in which they were written. So if you go back to read Brotherhood of the Rose from the... the 80s you know read that but remember when it was written um what was out there what were people thinking about what was the technology like and all those things um because it that will help transport you back otherwise you're just going to read it with a critical eye and uh and it's just not it's just not the same so anytime someone can read read the early fleming's read the early liqueurs and uh and transport yourself back or read them through the lens of the year in which they were written |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, yeah. I'm guessing what your answer will be to this, but as a novelist whose books have been turned into, and there's one coming out, Dark Wolf, when is that released? It's like the 27th of this month. |
| Jack Carr | Okay, 27th for that one, and then next summer for True Believer, which is the second one. |
| Jason Heaton | very timely that we're recording this. This will go live on Thursday, just roughly a week before, but I'm curious, how much trepidation did you feel when you were approached to turn, you know, Terminalist into a book or sorry, into a series with Chris Pratt? And what, I mean, were you a little nervous? Like, oh, they're going to screw this up. They're going to water it down or. How did that feel? |
| Jack Carr | I was just grateful. Just thankful that anyone was interested in doing it. Specifically that Chris Pratt was interested because he was the person that I wanted to play my character. Actually, when I started, I put pen to paper, fingers to the keyboard. In December of 2014 is when I started writing. I was in the military, but I was on my way out. I knew I was getting out. I think it was just before I actually dropped my papers to let them know that I would drop your papers, meaning you're going to get out in a year. Yeah. So I was right before I did that. So I started writing, knew exactly what I was going to do next. I prepared myself my whole life, even though I didn't realize by doing all the reading that I had done, reading all the nonfiction, having the experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan to allow me to give, even though they're fictional stories, but make the protagonist in this case, views, real feelings and emotions. So if he's getting an ambush in Los Angeles, California, I just remember what it was like to be in an ambush. Baghdad, Iraq in 2006. And I can take those feelings and emotions and apply them to the fictional narrative. So it feels real because it is real. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jack Carr | It comes from a real place. But as I started to type it out, I thought, of course, being a child of the 80s, it was kind of like no one ever told me. Well, I guess they did, but I didn't pay attention to it. I wanted to be an astronaut when you're a kid and never getting dissuaded by people who say, you know how hard that is or you got to be really good at math or, you know, like all those sorts of things that people, adults in particular, will tell kids as they're growing up. That whether they do or not really puts a negative spin on what they're planning to do with the rest of their life, even at a young age. So I just never really paid attention to that sort of thing. I use it as fuel. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jack Carr | So I started typing. So being a child of the 80s, I thought, of course, this is going to get turned into a a uh it's gonna be new york best selling number one new york times best selling book it's gonna be a uh tv show or movie uh who should play the lead and i have no connections in publishing no connections in hollywood at this point i'm in my first sentence of the book and uh you know what there's i don't want someone who has done these types of roles before i want someone like let's say Remember in the 80s, Tom Hanks did all comedies. And then he takes a risk with Philadelphia in the early 90s. And then from then on, he does whatever he wants. So I wanted someone that is coming from kind of the comedic background, but that needs to do something for their career. And this is before Guardians of the Galaxy, before Jurassic World, before A-List stardom. And he was on Parks and Rec. And he was out of shape, Andy Dwyer, funny. But then he had a very small role. Not a very small role. He had a role in Zero Dark Thirty where he plays a seal. So I got to see that physical transformation of him acting as a seal. And I thought, Chris Pratt. uh then i got back to typing and i thought you know well since i picked my actor i should probably pick my director um antoine fukua he did shooter he did tears of the sun did training day i love antoine uh he'll he'll be the director and all these years later antoine is the director chris is uh is starring we're all executive producers on it we're all dear friends but it got wow Because a buddy from the SEAL teams, he called me out of the blue in the fall in November of 2017. So a few months before the book came out, which came out March of 2018. And first he asked if I remembered him. And I said, of course, I remember you. How's it going? We hadn't talked in about five years. And he said, well, hey, I always wanted to thank you for what you did for me in the SEAL teams. And I couldn't even remember what that was. And he said... Person that sat me down and talked to me about transitioning into the private sector. You introduced me to people, you followed up and I just always wanted to thank you. And I said, yeah, no problem. How's it going? He said, it's going great, but I heard you wrote a book. And I said, yeah, it's coming out in a few months. I can send you a galley copy. I just learned what a galley was about a week before. And, and I said, yeah, I'd love to send you one. He said, I'd like that, but I'd also like to give it to a friend of mine. And I said, who's that? And he said, Chris Pratt. And so, wow, Chris, Chris read it and called the next week and, uh, and wanted to option it. |
| Jason Heaton | So it's crazy. It's like you manifested that. That's incredible. I mean, you just, from, from early on, that's, that's amazing. Yeah. |
| Jack Carr | Yeah. Now we're just all on set together and Jared's a writer on it. He plays boozer in the show. He's an executive producer and a technical advisor on it. So he has four huge roles in the show and, uh, he'll direct your show run one day. I'm sure. Yeah. Wow. |
| Jason Heaton | What's your, I mean, given how busy you are with. producing the TV show and the publicity side of things and the podcast and sitting down with me and all that. How are you fitting in your writing? And when do you do that? Do you block out? Like, don't talk to me for three months. I'm going to go off literally to the cabin in the woods. Or how do you do that? Or do you do it on the airplane and little bits here and there? |
| Jack Carr | I'm trying to figure this out. I have not figured it out quite yet. Meaning I have up to this point felt like kind of an entrepreneur in the... with let's say in the 70s making a computer in your garage where you are the computer you are the ceo the cmo the cfo if there was social media back then you'd be the social media manager but you are everything um you have to know this thing exists that you made it has to be the best product that it possibly can be so uh up to this point i've been i'm exhausted i've been saying you know say yes to everything you possibly can never you never know what opportunity is gonna you know, create more readers and, and all of that. So, uh, so it's been a crazy, crazy sprint. Uh, most of the books are written very late at night. I need to change that because as I've gotten older, that's become more difficult. You might know, you might not, but this book was supposed to come out in June. My next one, it's coming out in October, October 7th. And that's because I think I was just juggling too much. And also, I did not anticipate the research for Cry Havoc, which takes place in 1968, Vietnam, to take as long as it did. Writing every sentence through the lens of 1968, I knew I was going to do that, but I just didn't know how hard that was going to be or how... long that was going to take because you can't use this 55 55 whatever it is years of hindsight uh to develop your characters or their perspective on certain events it has to be ground up until this point whether it's through world war ii or maybe they're born right after world war ii but it's their experience up until 1968 that gives them their perspective on what's happening so it's uh that took a lot longer and it's international so i have characters that have These backgrounds from the Soviet Union, others from French, a French doctor in Saigon now. What is his background? Why is he in Saigon? You have people in the CIA in Saigon. You have people in MACV SOG. What's their background? So all of these different people have local people in their businessmen. That took a lot longer than I thought. So that's why it's coming out in October. But all that being said, I mentioned it only because I need to get better at figuring out how to schedule these things and have a block off time and get up and work until noon or one or two or something like that. And then go in and start checking emails and looking at texts and whatever else, because the incoming is a little bit crazy these days. But it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. |
| Jason Heaton | And how often are you doing the podcast? |
| Jack Carr | It's a weekly thing. I'm going to change that up for the next year because it really does take a lot of time. It takes a lot longer than I think if you haven't done a podcast that people would realize. I've read every book for people who have come on thus far. Oh, yeah. So I think I'm going to switch it up for 2026. There's just too many writing projects now. There's a bunch of other things that I want to do. And I'm going to need to figure out a different way to do the podcast that still lets me kind of maintain that connection with people. But that's done in a way that allows me to write. It doesn't put me so far behind. It isn't quite as exhausting. I have a chief of staff now that I brought on about a year and a half ago, which has been fantastic. On the merch side, I have some merchandise stuff. So that, that side of the house as well, a lot of people there used to be just me and my wife and my wife, like packaging stuff in a room and we all, it's in the kitchen, it's in the dining room, it's in living room and, and back of her car just filled up with boxes that she's going. So now we have some people in a warehouse and all of that. So, but with that, it doesn't really, it hasn't really opened up more time. And hence bringing in a CEO that can do that so I can focus on the writing. So that'll be my next step here over the next few months because this last year got a little too crazy. Yeah, yeah. But the first record I have that came out since morning that we're recording this. And so you never really know until you get something out. You put your heart and soul into it and you never know until it gets out there. And so the first review came in this morning from the real book spy and, uh, it's fantastic. So I was like, Oh, that's great. Cause you know how much you put in, but that doesn't really matter at the end. Uh, you know, it's, it's, it's how it's, uh, you never know how it's going to be received. |
| Jason Heaton | So yeah. Yeah. I can't wait to check it out. I was, you know, exchanging emails with, uh, with the guy from Simon and Schuster, David and David. |
| Jack Carr | Yeah. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I asked if he could send me an advance copy and he said, well, I'll get you one as soon as you can. I can't wait to read it. |
| Jack Carr | That'd be great. Um, yeah, they're not printed yet, so they'll should be coming out here in the next few weeks, I think. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that's great. Given your time crunch, uh, I don't want to take any more of your time, but this has been really, really fantastic. It's awesome. |
| Jack Carr | yeah i was going to ask if you had any tips for writers but you've been kind of giving them all along i mean it's like just read a lot and kind of you had that focus from early on and just kind of a goal and just kind of saw it through i think that's that's so valuable yeah and somebody did tell me a long time ago they said the only difference between a published author and an unpublished author is that the published author never quit and that quitting and buds and seal training is uh yeah that's where you get most of our attrition is like 80 attrition and most of those people quit Um, so that really, that really spoke to me and also writing for myself, I would say, um, don't worry about websites. Don't worry about social presence. Don't worry about publishers. Don't worry about agents. Just make the book the best that you can possibly make it. And of course the caveat is like, you can always make something better, but if it's just going to be, uh, over the next 40 years, if you make it better by a degree or two, like that's not what you want. You You want to get it to the point where like, hey, if I work on this for the next, I shouldn't say 40, but like three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years, it's going to get better, but by this much. Well, and that's going to be a different place for everybody. He's going to realize that at a different spot. But once you get it to that part, that's the time where you need to start looking for an agent that can put it in front of the ring. Don't waste any bandwidth thinking about that stuff until you have the best book that you can possibly make, that you are proud of, that you've poured your heart and soul into without wasting bandwidth on. a social media post or a website or anything else. So yeah. Yeah. Make the product the best it can be. In this case, it's a book. |
| Jason Heaton | That's great. All right. We'll leave it there. And I really appreciate your time. I mean, this is, this is, this has been great. And I appreciate, um, you were, I was connected with you. I want to give a shout out to Cole Pennington at Tudor for, um, for making the connection. |
| Jack Carr | I had this one too. So this is the one that, uh, Taylor Kitsch. So yeah. Yeah. You can see it in the movie poster too, because they have to. take off essentially their their stuff that makes them look like a seal because now they're going to this world of espionage and so the g-shocks come off the gator sunglasses come off they got oh european style clothing and then uh so i gave oh sure this one uh from oh man with cole and then this is the actual one that he that he wore oh really oh that's great screen worn okay yeah and then asked me to be a part of the the uh the the splashdown project yeah such an honor those guys that uh that were involved in it and such an incredible part of history so But no, it's been great talking to you. I love, love your stuff. Love your articles, your books, the photography. And just the, the lifestyle that you, you lead. It's very inspirational. And it, you know, it reminds me of some of the stuff that I would dream about back in the day going through was the scuba diver magazine, skin diver magazine, whatever. Going through that in the mid eighties, late eighties, and just dreaming about going to some of these places in the dive and looking at all the gear and all that stuff. So. |
| Jason Heaton | Do you get to dive much these days? I mean, did being in the seals kind of ruin diving for you? |
| Jack Carr | No, the military ruins everything for you. But it's a different kind of diving when you're doing the closed circuit stuff and everything is black and you're going in at night and you're kind of out flying. So you're flying at like 20 feet because you're on pure oxygen and pure oxygen obviously is toxic at depth. And so... You want to maintain your heading and you're just looking at your stopwatch and your compass with a tiny mini little chem light on there and a depth gauge. That's called your attack board as you're flying. Oh, sure. Target. You're hearing of the boats freak and you're going under like an aircraft carrier. You're hearing all the things. Yeah. Very eerie. I think the last time I dove for fun was right before September 11th on deployment. Wow. Yeah. I think it was in Guam. Yeah. It was called the Blue Hole. There's probably a bunch of blue holes or every private resort. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Right. |
| Jack Carr | yeah yeah we dove right i think a couple days before september 11th and then the world changed and then we got incredible from then on but i want to get back into it because my son my youngest son is uh is 14 and he's about the age where i would love to get him certified because i got certified with my dad i'd like to get him certified and we can do that here in utah actually here oh yeah sure go some places to to dive so i'd really like to do that with him well i hope we we cross paths in person someday and uh maybe we'll maybe we can go diving somewhere somewhere awesome That would be awesome. I feel like I need to do it all over again, even though I had all those years of diving in the military and after. |
| Jason Heaton | Warm water, daylight. |
| Jack Carr | Yeah. Working at a dive shop before I joined the military. And I took my dive master test the day before I left. And then I never followed up and don't know what happened to it from there. But I guess that was my backup plan. I don't know. Yeah, right. But I'd love to get back out and do some diving soon. Hopefully we can link up in person. |
| Jason Heaton | And man, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. All right. Well, thanks, Jack Carr. And best of luck with the new book and the new series. And we'll put some links in the show notes and all the best. |
| Jack Carr | Thanks so much. Take care. |
| James Stacey | All right, so there you have it. A great chat with author and former Navy SEAL Jack Carr. I figure most of you know him for Terminalists, and if not the book, then certainly the show. As a fan of the first season of the show, and certainly of a fan of Taylor Kitsch, I'm pretty pumped for Dark Wolf, which looks like a pretty good time, which I believe comes out in about a week's time. So that should be great. I thought that was a really fun chat. What a fascinating guy. And, you know, a lot of times we have these guys on who, you know, they have a connection to watches, but they have a lot of other stuff they're going to talk about. And Jack could have talked about a lot of other stuff, but we got a lot of watches in there. Oh, my gosh. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I was shocked, actually. I mean, he just kept... The funny thing is, too, I kind of kept subtly saying, you know, Jack, we're not on video here, you know, because he kind of kept holding them up for me to see. And he has, you know... three different Aqualands, and then he was wearing his Sea-Dweller, and it was just on and on, and it was great. I mean, his enthusiasm was just intense. So love that, and I think people are going to really like that because of his enthusiasm for watches and just his humility. I mean, the guy's so accomplished, and he's a bona fide celebrity in his space, and he's managed to stay humble and kind of know... know who he is at his heart and his heart. So, um, thanks again to Jack for coming on TGN. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Huge. Thank you for that. Uh, what a thrilling thing to have him on a real treat to have him added to the sort of guest list for the show. And, uh, and another push to, uh, for anybody listening, myself included to continue into that series of books. If you found that interesting, I think now you have a footing for where those books, uh, the mind they come from. And, uh, and maybe that makes them even more appealing to dig into always a good time to, uh, start a new series as you're facing down the fall and later the winter. So it could be a good time to jump into those. Speaking of jumping into stuff, you want to hit some final notes? Sure. Why don't you go first? |
| Jason Heaton | You've got a really relevant one, I think, to my chat with Jack, actually. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I've been saving this one and then when I saw that Jack was on. I was like, well, I mean, this feels obvious. And then I actually didn't know that he was going to do any of the Aqualand conversation, so it's even better. But our friends at Watch of Espionage, just one of our favorite websites on the entirety of the internet, published the sort of story I kind of wish I had written or at least had a hand in or had known in advance. And it's the Citizen Aqualand, an underrated legend in military service. So obviously this summer for TGM, we've talked a ton about the Aqualand. It's the 40th anniversary of one of our favorite coolest, weirdest, most fun watches. It remains one of my favorite watches under a thousand dollars and a watch that I've worn basically constantly since I got it this summer. And then not that long ago, just in the last couple of weeks, Watch of Espionage dropped a really long and in-depth read by our buddy Benjamin Lowry, all about the military background of the Citizen Aqualand. And I think even if you know the Aqualand pretty well, even some of its nicknames, which of course give you some of that background, I was even surprised that At the depth, at the depth of its acceptance throughout, you know, a bunch of different sort of special operations, special forces, military outfits, that sort of thing. A really fascinating read. And I mean, this for me, and I think, you know, Watch of Espionage did a fantastic and very funny video the other day about, you know... gadget watches in James Bond and Archer and Atomic Blonde with Charlize Theron. And it's a great video. But for me, this is like the absolute core of what they do is telling these great stories and putting into context. Like this is a commercially available dive watch that largely hasn't been updated, like we talked about with Neil in his recent episode, like hasn't been updated to become some sort of a smartwatch or a dive computer. And because of some of those reasons or for some of those reasons, it has this footing in the military and special forces communities. And I found this to be just a great story. I highly recommend it if you're interested in the watch. It gives you a few different backgrounds and a few different connection points. And as always, Ben does a great job kind of weaving the story together. So it's something quite entertaining to fans of the watch. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I really enjoyed this one and you're correct in kind of just being astonished at the depth of acceptance of the Aqualand across so many world militaries and especially Navy diver groups. It surprised me. The article just kept going on and on and on and I thought it was Really cool. I didn't even realize that some elements of the British military were using it. And I mean, I think we all know about the Danish one, you know, just from the king of Denmark, Pingo wearing one when he served. But yeah, it's it's it's super cool. It's a great story. Nice job, Ben, on that one. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, for sure. I mean, in some of the photos are really making me rethink the choice of putting it. putting my 40th anniversary on a canvas strap instead of a sort of vented or rippled rubber. Some of these photos, they look real cool on rubber. So I might have to see if I can source one of these straps in the older variant. They just look like a really good time. But yeah, solid story and great work on that one from Watch of Espionage. Hope you guys are doing well. Jason, how about you? It's water-based, but a little bit different as far as the scope for your story. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, this is a story I read months ago and I kind of had it in my notes on my computer for a possible final note. And I just pulled it out because it's really a remarkable story. It's from the Atlantic. And I thought it was behind a paywall, but I'm actually looking at it on my screen right now and I'm not logged in to the Atlantic and I can still scroll the whole thing. So maybe you can get lucky. It's an article called Inside the Dangerous Secretive World of Extreme Fishing. The subtitle says, Why I Swim Out into Rough Seas 80 Nights a Year to Hunt for Striped Bass. It's a story by Tyler Austin Harper. And it's a wild story. Look, I'm not a fisherman. Really never have been. But this is... This story, it kind of made my palms sweat just reading it because it's about this subset of fishermen, these kind of guys who go out at night off the east coast of the U.S., largely up in New England, way off of Montauk, Newport, some of those areas in New England. At night, largely, in a wetsuit, in rough seas, you know, they kind of wade out up to their chins and necks, sometimes having to swim across, you know, rocks and things to get out deep enough into the current to cast for stripers and other big fish. And they call it wetsuiting. And it's aptly called an extreme sport because these guys are risking their lives, drowning, slipping, broken bones, as well as, you know, there are big sharks out there and they're at night. And it's just a wild story about this, again, one of these... niche groups of people that are pursuing some kind of weird extreme version of a sport and like i said yeah i mean even as someone who is pretty comfortable in water um it just kind of made me kind of uncomfortable reading it uh in a good way so yeah check it out the article is actually from september of 2024 so it's not too old and maybe some people have have seen it before but uh yeah i highly recommend this it's a really really interesting story |
| James Stacey | Very cool, yeah. I haven't caught that, and I've even been digging into a bunch of the Atlantic in Apple News, which has been good, so I will definitely check this out. The photos are great, too. Yeah, sounds crazy. Good photos, yeah. Wow. All right, well, there you go. A whole episode, including an appearance, a long appearance and great chat with the author, Jack Carr. That was a special one, man. Well done on the chat. Thanks, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | It was good, and thanks again to Jack for coming on. All right. And as always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly and maybe even grab a new TGN signed NATO, please visit thegraynato.com for more details. Music throughout a siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive. |
| James Stacey | And we leave you with this quote from Pam Allen, who said, reading is like breathing in, writing is like breathing out. |