The Grey NATO – 297 – Collection Inspection Vol. 13 // Oops All Seikos
Published on Thu, 29 Aug 2024 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
In this episode of The Great NATO podcast, hosts James Stacy and Jason Heaton discuss the upcoming Toronto Timepiece Show and their plans for a live episode and meetup there. They then dive into "Collection Inspection" volume 13, where they each share a significant Seiko dive watch from their collections. Jason talks about his vintage Seiko 6105-8110 "Captain Willard" and its history, while James discusses his orange Seiko Monster and its cultural impact. They reflect on how these watches represent different eras of Seiko design and watchmaking. In the final notes segment, Jason recommends a Netflix documentary about a Nepali Sherpa who has summited Everest multiple times, and James shares his experience with Rokid Max AR glasses that function as wearable screens.
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Transcript
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| James Stacy | Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Great NATO. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches this episode 297. And it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening to the show, and not a supporter, but you're curious, please visit TheGreatNATO.com for more details. My name is James Stacy, and I'm joined as ever by my buddy and co host Jason Heaton. Jason, how you doing? Pretty good. |
| Jason Heaton | Although I'm a little, uh, feeling a little sad that summer's approaching its end here, but, uh, you know, usually September is a reliably summery month. So we, I shouldn't, uh, shed any tears just yet, but, uh, yeah, doing well. |
| James Stacy | Nice. Yeah. We had a, a perfect weekend at the cottage this past, uh, just excellent weather. A little, some of the family was up, got to see my folks and my grandmother. And I, I, it hit me, it hit me on the Saturday, like, Oh wait, next weekend is Labor Day. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody's got their favorite holidays. For me, I love Labor Day. There's something about it, just the chance to be at the cottage. That's when most of my family, extended family would be up there. There'll be 50, 60 people there. Holy smokes. This coming weekend. I mean, my dad's one of six. I'm one of six siblings. And yeah, so it is just one of my favorites. It's a really nice time of year. I like September. I like back to school season. I like refocusing myself after summer. But to do that, I feel like I have to be, I have to be Labor Day James for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I have to have concerns about hammocks and how cold my drink is. |
| Jason Heaton | And forgive my ignorance, but is there actually Labor Day in Canada or is it called something different or is it actually a holiday? |
| James Stacy | It's a holiday and it's called Labor Day. We stole it completely. Okay. All right. These are the ones where I get the best chance to see, you know, my brothers who typically work on weekends and that kind of thing. And So I always look forward to it that, you know, as always, we record this on Tuesday and I'll probably I'll probably be at the cottage by the time this episode goes live or definitely thinking about it. Thankfully, the Starlink has made it really easy to work from up there this summer, which is a huge blessing, in my opinion. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I feel like I'm kind of in a short lull between very busy times here. I've got another week or so here and then it's off for another Oceania expedition. less than two weeks now, I guess. And then I've got a short trip to New York. And then later in the month, it's the Toronto Timepiece Show, which we should mention here because it's coming up, well, within about one month, almost exactly. And it's pretty exciting. There's some cool stuff going on. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I'm really excited. Great brands. Obviously, we're doing a hangout with Marathon watches. So pay attention either in the show notes in the future episodes. It should be in... I don't think it'll be in the show notes for this episode. But next week's 298, we have an incredible guest, super pumped about that. We'll also have an RSVP link in the show notes for you to RSVP for this hangout. So the show is running Saturday and Sunday, 28th and 29th. I believe the 27th is like for vendors. There's some incredible vendors, including Marathon, Oris, Christopher Ward, Standard H will be there. And, you know, there's a bunch of great stuff going on. I'm really excited about it. But we have this hangout, which is going to be 6.30 to 8.30 on the Saturday evening. And that's going to be open to anybody that's willing to make it to Toronto to come hang out. Currently, I believe it's either difficult or impossible to get tickets to the show. I believe they sold out or were registered out previously. I think they are doing like a reclamation, like checking with people whose plans might have changed. So there's a chance I would say probably follow the Instagram, which I'll put in the show notes. There's a chance that they might free up a block of tickets in the future. I don't know that for certain. That's just speculation on my part. But yeah, I'm really pumped for the show. We're going to have this great hangout with Marathon. Stay tuned for the RSVP link. We'll probably put it in the Slack first. We should have room for everybody who wants to be there. And there should be some cool, fun folks from sort of the greater world of TGN. Who knows, you might have a Mike Pearson spotting. And we're also doing a live episode at the show. And so if you are attending the show, this will be the end of the day on Saturday, September 28th, 4.30 to 5.30. We're going to record a live episode. The details of that are still coming together, but we always have a good time, probably a chance for some Q&A. And for those of you who won't get a chance to hear that, it'll probably form the next week's episode in the feed. So if you're in the Toronto area, if you can make it out, even if you can't get tickets to one of the two days of the show. You are more than welcome to swing by the Marathon XTGN Hangout. So just stay tuned for the link for that. Like I said, should be active within about a week's time from when this episode drops. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I'm really excited. You know, you and I were talking before we started recording about kind of the plans for this show. And, you know, wind up is always fun. But for me, it's kind of exciting to get back north of the border. I haven't been to Canada in a while. you know, we had our, our first summit way back and gosh, it was probably 2017 or something in Vancouver when you were living there. And, um, it'll just be fun to hang out, uh, in person together on, on your home turf. And then I think the show it's, it's, it's sort of shaping up to be very TGN and I think even more so than wind up because there's just gonna be so many of our friends and favorite brands. And, and I just think it's going to be a really good time. So I have high expectations and I don't think I'll be disappointed. I think it'll be a really good time. And I hope we get a good number of our audience that's able to show up for that. |
| James Stacy | So absolutely. Yeah. Hoping to see as many of there as possible. Aside from that, don't forget that we are still running the Citizen TGN discount. So if you are shopping on Citizen's U.S. website and you're interested in something from the Promaster Dive Collection, use the code GREYNATO, G-R-E-Y-N-A-T-O, all caps, and that'll get you an extra 10% off. So a big thank you to our friends from Citizen. Uh, what else, what were we up to the last time we chatted? You're going to do a little bit of diving, right? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I left, um, right after we recorded last week, actually, I, um, had a little project, uh, speaking of marathon, I had a little project for marathon to do some, some photography, uh, with my buddy, Chris down in Lake Michigan of a couple other dive watches. And so we hit a nice narrow window of good weather and, uh, kind of availability to get out on, on the water. And we dove. Uh, on a wreck of a, it was a dredging barge that sank in 1956. And the significance of this one was that it was actually my very first post certification open water dive back in 2008. And so I hadn't been back to it since. And that dive actually hit, I had done with my friend Chris and, and, um, that, that was a bit of a blur. I remember, I think I lasted all of 12 minutes, you know, those of you who were new to diving or remember what it was like to be new to diving. You're, you're familiar with that whole. scenario where your air consumption is sky high and you're just such a nervous wreck and all that. But, so it was good to get back to that. We had great weather, um, pretty flat seas and, uh, it's, it's a really neat wreck. It's actually a, so a dredging barge, you know, it's like a big crane with a digger on the front that that's sitting on a barge. And, um, during a storm it was being towed and it flipped upside down and sank and sadly nine people died. Um, but the, the site has turned out to be a really popular one with divers cause it's pretty close to shore and it's about 75 feet deep. And so we got to do two good dives there. Um, kind of swimming around all the apparatus that's underneath the barge itself. And, um, it was incredible. It was, you know, what, mid August in the great lakes and you don't expect it, but we got 72 degrees Fahrenheit all the way to the bottom at 75 feet. And that was just unheard of. I mean, I was wearing a dry suit and I could have dived probably Would have been a little chilly, but I could have conceivably dived in like a shorty or a rash guard and swim trunks. I mean, it's just, it was really, really amazing. So, um, yeah, good time and, uh, good to see my friends and came back. It was just a short turnaround time and I was back by the weekend. So, yeah, that was my interesting week. And, uh, and, and here we are. Yeah. With, uh, with a really fun episode, uh, kind of revisiting one of our classic series. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I'm pretty pumped about this. I think this is going to overwrite risk check because we've both, I assume, come with the watches that we're going to talk about. So Collection Inspection is now 13 volumes deep. It's one of the core structures of the podcast and you can go back to the early days and catch the previous 12 iterations. And so if you go all the way back to the first episode of Collection Inspection, we migrated the whole site when SoundCloud had that outage. So I don't remember the exact date. It definitely wasn't May 11th, 2021 as a sub stack is telling me today. But if you go back to that, I believe I picked my 2254 Omega and you picked your Rolex Submariner. And, you know, I wanted to try and get back to something that felt like it could have been collection inspection volume one again. And it turns out that we both had sort of origin story Seiko's that we didn't own at the time, or at least I certainly didn't when we did uh collection of episode 10 yeah was uh was volume one and uh and today we do have them so i think i think that's going to form kind of the bulk of it is is it's a little bit of an origin story for not just the pod but for like your and my appreciation for dive watches and seikos and that sort of thing so we've we've each come with a seiko today we we considered going with like modern summer watches uh you can all read between the lines as to what those might be uh but i i think i like this this option quite a bit |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I agree. I think, um, you know, if there's been kind of a through line throughout TGN ever since, you know, 2016 when we started, we've consistently brought up Seiko and we've, we've had multiple iterations. I remember in the early days we were all about the, the SRP triple seven, you know, that, that, that reissue of the turtle. I mean, when I came to Vancouver, I think you had yours on when we did that dive and, and you know, I think we just, um, we were real hot on that watch and then things have come and gone. You had your, um, your SPB for, you know, quite a while. And we're real hot on that. And I've had, you know, the Arnie and all this kind of stuff, but here we are with a couple of really core Seiko's and it's, it's fun to talk about these. |
| James Stacy | Absolutely. And I think the other thing is both of these watches represent a sort of previous era of Seiko. Yours may be, I call it two eras ago, mine one full era of watch enthusiasm. And now the brand has continued to evolve and grow and change what they offer. But I think these two do represent kind of an interesting thing. So do you want to go first with yours? |
| Jason Heaton | Sure. Yeah. I mean, if, if only by a kind of vintage, I guess, but mine's the old one here. Um, and it's, uh, yeah, it's my 6105-8110. And, you know, look, this is a watch that hardly needs introduction because I think, you know, anybody that's into watches and knows Seiko knows this watch affectionately known as the Captain Willard, a watch that Seiko has reissued in a few iterations over the past few years and has become very popular again. Um, it's got a very distinctive case shape that people are familiar with. And I would go so far as to say that the 6105 has consistently been, you know, given all my love of Seiko dive watches, it, it stands atop the pyramid for me. I think it is the, my favorite Seiko dive watch and probably my, my favorite Seiko for sure. Amazing. You know, I've had, I think this is the third 6105 I've had. And I've, I always end up kind of keeping them a while and then I sell them. I think one of them kind of kept really miserable time that I could never quite get right. And you know, whatever things happen, you flip watches. But this one has been, it's been around for a couple of years now with me. I bought it on a sales forum and you know, it was kind of one that I vowed to keep for a while because I've always just loved this watch. And when I got it it's, it's definitely, a proper Seiko in that it's rough. And, uh, I wrote a story about this for my sub stack that we'll throw a link in the show notes. Um, it's kind of a bit of background about, about the watch itself, but also kind of a fictional backstory that I made up for it, you know, just sort of as a fun writing exercise, but you know, you'll see in some of the photos there, I mean, this, this is a rough watch. I mean, the bezel looks like it's been, you know, put through like a, you know, a belt sander or something like that. It's, uh, it's rough and the, the, the markers on the dial, are certainly well patina, probably had some moisture ingress at some point. Um, but remarkably it keeps really good time. And when I got it, I thought this is a watch that given the way it looks and given how much I love this, I want to be able to wear it. And so I really wanted to confirm what sort of water resistance was left on it. And I have one of those cheap, uh, you know, water pressure test units that I got off of Amazon for a few bucks. And, In order to use it, I had to disassemble the watch because I didn't want to leave the movement in when I dunked it in the water under pressure. So, you know, the thing about these old Seiko's and Seiko's in general, at least from this era and probably your SKX, uh, your seven 81, your monster as well is like, I don't necessarily feel bad about like fiddling with it. It's kind of like an old Land Rover. You feel like, okay, if I put another scratch in it or if I, you know, mess up a little something, like I'm sure I can figure it out. And that was the case. I, I pulled the, I pulled the stem out pretty easily, you know, took the, the case back off. There's a movement retaining ring dropped out the movement with the dial and hands still attached and put the stem and crown back in. And, uh, so basically I had an empty case and pumped up the pressure tester to five bar, which is roughly 50 meters of water pressure, dunked it in for, you know, good 10 minutes or so and no leaks. And so I felt confident that, you know, I wasn't gonna be taking this watch diving, but you know, the odd rainstorm dip in the pool, you reach into the, a sink to loosen the stuck drain, whatever it might be. Like I don't have to worry about it with stuff like that. And that and the good timekeeping kind of made it a good, almost a daily wear kind of daily beater piece. And so I've kind of worn it as such. Um, the watch, I don't really know much about the history of this one in particular. It does seem, it did seem to have a new crystal at some point in the case back gasket looked nice when I got it. So I suspect it was, it was taken care of and, So given that, it's just been kind of a pretty reliable companion, almost like you'd expect a Seiko to function for you. |
| James Stacy | I'm curious what this watch represents for you beyond what it is as a dive watch. Because I think the thing, especially if you go back to watches that had an impact on you early on, or that you've owned for a really long time, or to a certain extent, like you said, where you're not that worried about fiddling with it. For me, this this Seiko, and mine is my Orange Monster, which I'll give everybody the background on in a moment, but with mine, it feels like a watch that's much more about the memories or even just the very specific experience of wearing it than what the watch can or can't do. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, totally, totally. And I think the name Seiko looms large in my own history with watches as I've talked about many times, written about many times, you know, my first watch was a Seiko that I got at the mall jeweler. Um, you know, when I first started getting back into watches, uh, you know, as with most people, it was an SKX, a double Oh seven or double Oh nine. I can't remember which, and you know, so like once you kind of head down that Seiko rabbit hole, you start to look at what else is on offer. And the 6105 to me represents the, you know, such a, um, an iconic Seiko and yet one that's still, still to this day, quite accessible, um, you know, in terms of, of value. And I think, you know, you can still find these in reasonable condition between a thousand and $2,000. And that to me makes it feel like a watch that you don't necessarily have to be precious about and you can wear anywhere and it looks good on a NATO and it looks good, you know, like old Land Rovers, they look better the worst they look. And, and also there's this, history with this watch on Naomi Umera's wrist, you know, when he was climbing Everest and, you know, traversing the poles. And, um, of course, uh, you know, one of my favorite movies is apocalypse now and, and its appearance in that movie has an impact on me. And I just think they look good on a wrist. They have this blend of capability. And in the, in the case of the 6105, this one, It feels like a really high quality watch. It feels like a watch that could stack up with, this one is from 1976. It feels like it could stack up next to, and, and you know, this might be blasphemy and I might get shredded for this in comments or on Slack, but to me, I've got a 1976 Tudor Submariner as well. It feels almost like the equal of that watch, except it was at the time it was made in Japan and probably sold for 80 bucks or something like that. Whereas the Tudor was probably a bit more than that, but there's just something about, Seiko that knocks things down a few pegs in terms of pretension where, um, you know, if I use a car analogy, it's like if you're driving down the road in, I like to use the story, but let's say you have like a snazzy, you know, Mercedes SL or a Ferrari or something like that. People look, when you pull up to a stop sign, they think, eh, that guy's a rich jerk. Like, you know, whatever, you know, you pull up in a beat up old Land Rover or even like a kind of a well patinaed old Fiat spider or something like that. People smile and they give you a thumbs up and they're like, yeah, right on. I could, I could see myself driving something like that. And I feel like that's the case with these, these vintage Seikos. Um, they, they, they have such appeal across the board with watch nerds and with kind of everyday people that for whom Seiko was just a watch that they bought that worked. And, and I think that's always been, the appeal and it's, it kind of fits my personality as well. I've, I've certainly got my share of kind of quote unquote high end watches, but I always come back to Seiko, um, as, as kind of that grounding sort of brand, um, with its dive watches. And, and that's what this one represents. And I think going back to what I was saying about it's it's quality. I think when you look at the 6105 and then you look at what came after in terms of like the 6309, the, the turtles and then beyond, The 6105 has this refinement to it that you, that kind of gets lost in future dive watch iterations from Seiko. I've looked at it and I had a 6309 not long after I got this that I sold because it just didn't resonate with me. And I think the beauty of this one is yes, it's a rugged, affordable, very do anything watch, but it has applied markers. Um, it has this, this beautiful framed, you know, beveled frame around the date window. Um, the case shape is very elegant. you know, the, the bezel is this, this lovely bi-directional 60 click with, with this lovely, um, I guess your word jimping or, or sort of the grip, you know, around the edge is, is, is really nice. And that gets lost as you move forward. I mean, that's not to say that the future ones were, were less capable. They probably were better watches in many ways, screw down crown, et cetera. But like, there's just something about this watch that just feels a little more elegant than what came after. And I think that's what I like about it. Um, And it's, it's, it's just, it's just a lovely thing and it works really well on, on leather. I've had it on a bone strap, of course. Um, the rubber, you know, it would have come on that waffle rubber originally, but it works good on a Tropic. Um, of course NATO is what I've got it on now. I've got it on a watches of espionage, uh, NATO right now and it looks great. Nice. And, um, yeah, I, one thing I wrote about, about this watch and I, I just want to say is that there's something about certain watches when you see them across the room on someone's wrist. that is not only recognizable, but it just has this shimmer or there's something special about it. And I think what, what, what the special part of this one is for me is the, is the crystal. If you've seen these 6105s, they have a very sharply beveled crystal that is, you know, flat across the middle. And then it's really sits proud of the, of the bezel with this angled thick bevel all the way around. And it gives this almost halo effect. And the fact that this one had, what I assume is a, is a replacement one. It, it, it even accents that even more. And I've always loved the way they look across the room. And if you even see it in apocalypse now on Martin Sheen's wrist, like you, you, you see that you notice that. And it's, it's, I think it's my favorite part of this watch. And, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a really special piece and I really do like this and it's, it's certainly got its flaws. I mean, the, the watch is known to be not the most water resistant because it doesn't have a screw down crown. It has this kind of quirky, Um, what they call a locking crown, which doesn't really lock it. It just sort of keeps you from turning it when it's pushed in because of the little pin that sticks out. Um, and then, you know, obviously this one probably suffered from that because the markers are a bit Brown now from some water that might've gotten in at some point, but all told like, you know, warts and all, I just love this thing. It's just a great, great watch. |
| James Stacy | Absolutely. Yeah. A great poll for sure. Uh, and I think, you know, you've told the story many times. of your 7,002 kind of origin story Seiko, and I like to think of this as kind of the more heat and version of a 7,002. Yeah, right. I think it suits you quite nicely, obviously looks great on a bund and that sort of thing. And I think it's a fun watch and it is a little bit like those things where Some Seikos are just special because they're fun Seiko dive watches and others have an actual like lineage and backstory and pop culture connections, and this watch kind of has all of that. Everything that would bring someone's attention to a Rolex Sub or maybe some other more expensive sort of watch from that era is also present in this one. It's a bit like vintage Doxa, it just has that sort of appeal that feels a little bit deeper than just being a great dive watch. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it really does. And with this one, I go through long spells of not wearing it. And when we were talking about this episode, it had been a while and I pulled it out, gave it like literally two shakes, started right up as Seiko's do. And, uh, I said it and I've been wearing it for about the past 24 hours. And, and, uh, every time I'm tempted to sell this one, because I'm not wearing it much. I just remind myself, like I've done it twice before and I've come back again. And, um, I just wear it for a day or two. And even if I don't wear it for weeks on end, like it kind of reaffirms to me that, that this one I really should keep because, um, they really are special and it really, it does have a special kind of place in my heart. This, uh, this particular one. So yeah, for sure. That's my, that's great. That's my pick. Yeah. And, um, that's a good one. You have a very different Seiko. Um, one that I have, I have never warmed up to. I understand the appeal and, uh, these monsters certainly have their, uh, their fan base. So why don't you, uh, tell us, tell us about this one. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, so I have to admit that I've kind of let myself down here on the data department because I am certain that a Seiko monster, a black, so a 779 Gen 1 was my first mechanical Seiko. I bought it before my SKX007, but what I can't tell you assuredly because this would have been 2007, 2006, even 2007 sounds about right. I just don't remember if I had already bought an SNA411, the pilot chronograph. Oh, yeah. Because I had one of those as well, and I definitely had them at the same time because I have photos of the two together. And I was very much experimenting with loom shots, so a black monster was crucial at the time. But yeah, I remember early days on Flickr, like publishing photos of a handful of different watches, and I had my 007, my 779 and also this SNA 411. So I can't tell you that it was my first Seiko, but it was definitely in my first era of buying Seikos. Like before I was writing about watches, I was just kind of enjoying them, spending every waking moment on Watch You Seek and Gorman's Watch Forum. Oh yeah, for sure. And I think if you were quote unquote raised by the forums at that time, there were a few watches that you considered. A 007 was definitely one of them, an Orient Red Beast, I had one of those very early on, if you can remember that far back. There was really this fun time around the turn of the millennia, and this is admittedly before I was deeply into watches, but a bunch of cool watches kind of came out, and one of them is the Japanese, the original Japanese version of what became the Monster, the black 779 and the orange 781 SKX series Monster. These are the first gen. Obviously, there's some very famous hyper collectible models. You can see some of that in Cole's original kind of inaugural episode of watches in the wild. He meets with a collector of all sorts of incredible monster variants. I had a black one and I remember liking it because it didn't feel like any other dive watch I had come across. It was heavy, super chunky, almost insanely sort of industrial in its vibe because of that. Yeah. I mean, there's no other word for it. This is the correct use of the word unique. The bezel is something else. Yeah. It's a very strange design. It's essentially like a steel dish with huge engraved markings, luminous pip, and then these weird grip points that actually extend down into the side of the case. Explaining this watch in audio is quite a task because it's not a pretty watch, I don't think. No. But I do think it's almost brutal in its appeal. and then it has this chunky, solid steel bracelet that I think perfectly complements the watch, even though it is, you know, a early 2000s Seiko bracelet. At least it is solid links all the way to the end. You've got a little bit of micro adjust and otherwise that standard Seiko folding class with the dive extension. You get drilled lugs, a crown at four. It's a Day-Date movement, 7S26, kind of legendary for being unkillable, but also really not being on time. In my case, this one keeps a pretty good time for a 7S26, as good as any that I've owned, so much so that I don't feel the pressure to time it. And the origin story of this specific watch, so I sold my Black Monster on Watch UC probably by 2010, something like that. I had it for a couple of years, maybe even more like 2009, and then I'd moved on to other things. I'd had this black one for a while. I absolutely loved the loom, but had kind of fallen for the more classic design language of the 007 and then other versions kind of within that guise, right? |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | And so I went a really long time without one, and then just on a whim, I had been chatting with moderator extraordinaire among extraordinaire at many other things in his life, Chris Soul, who you would know soul again if you were on our slack. And certainly he's been on the show and a good buddy of ours. And some time ago, maybe not quite two years ago, I was mentioning him that I was, you know, I'm always kind of in the market for another monster and it could be a black or an orange one. And then out of the out of the blue, he says, hey, me and a couple other guys, and I'm not sure if they necessarily want their names out there. So I'll play it close to chest, but you know who you are and a huge thank you. And he said, I mean, a couple of the guys kind of sorted out a buy for a few from somebody. So if you want one, you know, it was $300 or something. I don't remember the exact price, enough that it felt within the line for what a Seiko Monster should theoretically cost. I don't think it was the current, like, full-on market price of... I mean, I've seen these things. Depends on the color and the spec and the rest, but they can get quite expensive. And even the standard ones used to be $150, $200, and they're, of course, not that anymore. Nothing is the same as it was in 2008 or 2009. and so I picked one up. It ended up being a black one, which I was super happy with. I wore it around for a while, definitely talked to her on the show, and then I was just kind of, again, casually chatting with Sol, and I was like, yeah, I kind of wish I'd gone orange, and he's gone, you know, I kind of want a black one, and so we just traded out. He had a case back engraving on his, so he kept his case back and transferred it to my black dial, and I love that now not only is this A watch that for me represents the core of why I like watches, the core of why we do this podcast. This is a lovable object that you don't need in your life, but enriches certain experiences. And for some people, like many of us, enriches them to some quite a high degree. And I really get a kick out of this watch. This is a joyful thing for me that I just, I just really like wearing it. It's a laugh. I love going outside. maybe checking something in the barbecue or grabbing something from the backyard, coming back inside to a dark space and it's still the best loom I've ever come across, maybe with the exception of something like a vertex. Oh yeah, yeah, giving it a run for its money, but the you know the luma bright on this one, especially I think in my mind, combined with the somewhat dished crystal really gives a play a pleasing sort of you know I'm a nerd for things that glow in the dark. I love it so much and this is one of my favorites. It's fun to have a day date The orange model adds a touch of levity that's definitely not there for the black one. And at the same time, it does feel and I say this in the best way possible. It feels like sort of an entry level product from Seiko, which I find again even more charming. Like, you know, it doesn't always like you kind of like what you're talking about with comparing the Seiko to a tutor or something else. It's not it's not necessarily a build quality statement. It's just a vibe like it feel this feels like a cool not too precious watch. |
| Jason Heaton | It's a bit of a, a, a moment in time too. And, and it, it probably has this, this, um, bit of a touch point for that era when you were getting into watches to look down at this one and think back. And I think there was that era that you mentioned being on the forums and those that, that collection of watches that everybody always talked about. And I'm just wondering what was going on in Japan around that time, because we had on the citizen side, you had, the Ecozilla and the Orca. And then, and then you've got this, this, the monsters from Seiko, like these wild designs, which I applaud them for doing that. Because, you know, when I look at the 6105, like it's a very classic looking, you know, black dial dive watch. I mean, it has its nice elements, but like the monster just blows all that out of the water. And so did the stuff from citizen back then. I mean, it's crazy. I'm really glad that they did this sort of stuff and challenged the kind of status quo of what a dive watch could be. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. And I think if you look back at like the, if you look back at the aesthetic iconography of the late nineties, everything was kind of wild, the matrix, right? Like we were pushing boundaries, we were trying new things. You know, I was watching an Instagram recently from roughly that era, late nineties, which I assume is roughly when they would have been actually designing this if it came out in 2000 and in the late nineties, you know, this guy was just comparing like covers of like textbooks from high school and some of them I remember. And like the design is just... There's nothing that would fly today. Everybody was doing it. They're doing 500 things in three square inches of paper. And it was definitely like a maximalist appeal with a watch like this or the Ecozilla is you're getting a lot. Yeah. You're getting a ton of wrist presence. This is just before we saw Panerai really explode out of time zone and some of the collector forums. And I think this is kind of the last wave of truly interesting watches that didn't have to be nostalgic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe this ended by 2005, 2006, all of a sudden a nostalgia there was like collecting had gotten to a high enough level of accuracy and academic quality and attention online that suddenly there was a renewed taste for vintage watches. There was a renewed taste for things that didn't work that well in the 70s, think like Royal Oaks, right? And at the same time, watches kind of like, I guess in some ways, even elements of the Aqualand, the more wild versions of the Promaster dive watches with... Maybe they didn't have... I had one... I had a model that didn't have the screens, but did have the Oh, yeah, the depth sensor and the chronograph and it was two tone, but it was also a loom dial. You know that I remember distinctly like snorkeling in the Caymans with one of those on my wrist and just feeling like I got everything figured out. You can't tell me nothing, right? Life is good. Yeah, life is amazing for sure. And I think with something like this, you are you're getting a little snapshot and I don't want to be I would never deride the monster. I don't I don't actually think that it is the gene code genes of dive watches. but it is that analogy holds to a certain extent. It's definitely the something of dive watches, whether it's... Maybe it's the new punk rock of dive watches, where it refers to Seiko's past, but it's not the Clash, it's not the Ramones, it's some 41 or Blink 182 or something like that. And again, maybe not the world's best analogy as I'm just flying off the top of the dome here. But I have such a fondness for this, and I do think that these are one of the few watches, certainly within the era, but in the era after, say post 2008, 2009, where this watch was made without... The term is anomia, which is a nostalgia for a time that you didn't necessarily experience yourself. Sure, yeah. And this has been the deciding defining factor of the last 10, 15 years of watch design is selling 30 year olds watches that look like a watch that their grandpa would have bought at 30, right? And that goes not just for sport watches. I would argue that that part made it into all sorts of different watches, right? At every price point as well. And I think that these monsters offer an entirely different experience. If you want that classic, go with the one that you brought up. But if you, if you, if you want to see what things are going on in 2000, yeah. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, and I don't want to, I don't want to go off on too, too far of a tangent here, but it does make me wonder about there is this nostalgia for, you know, with, with your monster or you mentioned, um, our earlier collection inspection with the two, two, five, four, you know, we often talk about that era of Omega and, and with, with a certain nostalgia for it. And without getting too philosophical about it, it makes me wonder, like, what was the, what was the change? What was the flipping point where, you know, in those days, let's say, I think I got onto the forums around 2006, 2007. And that was, that was the fun time. That was the, you were discovering all these cool watches, like the monster, like the two, two, five, four, like IWCs that were very aspirational at that time. But, you know, what was the, what was the, what was the, what was the flipping point? Is it the, was it the advent of, um, and not to deride your current employer, but like, you know, the Houdinki is the blog to watches, whatever that we kind of ascended out of the forum, you know, culture and watches became taken much more seriously. And I think the brands latched onto that and started changing their presentation. And I think these watches represent not, not the 6105, but like your monster, a certain innocence or a certain era where awareness just was not as high and there wasn't this, the stakes weren't quite as high for, you know, being prestigious or anything like that, you know? |
| James Stacy | Yeah. And I think, I think everything today has to be a reference. Yeah. Yeah. Good or bad. I'm not, again, I'm not that, that there's no judgment statement in there. There's very weak references or disingenuous references. We can all name those and there's great ones and you can name those as well. And there's brands that came to it a decade late and their brands right at the cutting edge, like Oris and Longines and doxa back in the day and that sort of thing. And I think, I think this watch has no reference. It's just a cool watch. Yeah. You know, in a different world from a different time, this would have been a Nixon digital watch for surfing. Oh yeah. Right. Might've had a moment. It might've had a moment in a little culture and it did have a moment in a little culture, but the thing that's interesting in my mind about the monster, as far as its cultural touch point is it, it had, it became a tent pole in what was a small culture. that five, 10 years later, exploded. And then five years after that, quadrupled with the pandemic. Now, I'm curious today, what would you spend if you needed to buy one of yours, a Willard? Do you know what the going rate is? |
| Jason Heaton | Like I said, I think between $1,000 and $2,000 is kind of depending on condition. I believe I paid, boy, less than $1,500 for this one. And that was a couple of years ago. I would probably say they're probably still in that, in that range. I would say 2000 would be at the high end. And I'm sure, you know, people know better than me and I might get corrected in comments or on Slack. But, um, so still like for, for Seiko's kind of premier vintage icon, I think it's still remarkably affordable. Even if you're, even if it's over $2,000, even if it's sub 3000, let's say, um, you get a lot of watch in a good, for a good condition one. |
| James Stacy | Because if you're talking about, an icon from Omega, like a 300, that's multiples. And let's say you wanted to say it was a 1680, we're not even the same number of digits, not even close, let alone if you get to something like the 5512, that sort of thing from Rolex. So yeah, I think there is... That's still, I think, a lot of vintage dive watch for the money. |
| Jason Heaton | And if you read about the history of this watch and kind of the movement is a well a well-known, well-respected movement. I mean, it's got the magic lever, automatic winding, like I said, like I picked it up after it'd been sitting for ages. I gave it literally two flicks of my wrist and off it went. I mean, you, you, you know, I've got modern watches that like you sit and you crank and crank and crank and crank until that second hand starts going. Um, you know, it's, it's, it has a lot going for it. And I think Seiko, you know, just as a product of its era, you know, Japanese dive watches in the sixties and seventies were just, known to be affordable, rugged, maybe not the best timekeepers. And therefore they were very popular with people. And so, you know, now when we think of, of Seiko, we think of it in a very different way. We still, oftentimes we still think affordable, poor timekeeping, a lot of people have them. Um, so they've kind of kept that, but it's, it's a different company now. And I think the mindset is different. Um, this was very much a working man's or working person's watch, um, back in the day, I think, you know, as evidenced by it's the condition of this one, somebody, truly either loved this watch or hated this watch because it looks like a wreck and I love it for it. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And with the 781, so the orange monster first gen, and again, I think they're into like three or three and a half, maybe even four gens of the monster. I had a 313K or 331K, the like vampire. Oh yeah, right. I liked the first gens. I highly recommend just going black or orange in the first gen. And currently you can buy one all day long for not that much more than I paid for this one a couple of years ago. Well, 400 bucks on eBay, and I think at $400, as long as your, your, your expectations are aligned with the reality of the, of a seven S 26. If you've owned five watches with a seven S 26, you should own a monster. They're great. Yeah. One of my favorites to ever use the movement is the movement. Incredible. No, it's not, but it is very reliable. It will run. And if you, if you're, you know, you've got a handful of watches, a couple of them can be inaccurate, charming, you know, kind of parties for your wrist. And I think at $400, it's roughly the same level of value that was offered back when I got it for 215 bucks or whatever I paid back in the day. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Now Seiko has, um, you know, they've obviously latched onto the popularity of the Willard. Um, and, and they've reissued several versions of them, which are lovely watches. And I'm very happy that people are able to experience this kind of form factor in a watch that you can go do a lot of cool stuff with and certainly dive and get it wet and bang it up. Not sure. Is there a current, iteration of the Monster or anything close that Seiko has done? Have they reissued that watch? |
| James Stacy | Oh, absolutely. Yeah. They still maintain a modern Monster, which is under the SRPG family. I'm actually quite partial to the SRPG 57, which is the Save the Ocean Antarctica model. And you're still looking at... Now it's a 4R36, but it's a 42 millimeter case, 200 meters of water resistance that so much of it looks very, very, very similar to... Oh, that's beautiful. Mine. I mean, I'm sure it's been massaged, but it has this very cool blue dial with like little footprints on it, which is kind of hard to describe in terms of its coolness, but I think it's quite cool. And I do think that these watches are excellent homes for the weirdest dial in your collection, not an orange guy. This is a great watch to go orange, not yellow. They do that. Granted, that's a grail watch for some people and certainly within the monster world, the yellow ones, but no, they still make a handful of models and they still iterate into this model. And there's still, to my understanding, and certainly was mentioned in that Watches in the Wild that Cole did while he was still with Hodinkee, which I'll put in the show notes, of course, they're still doing like regional special versions. Oh, okay. So if you keep your ear to the ground, you might be able to find some fairly fascinating stuff that's come out. I mean, I'm looking at some here that are the Cloud Phenomenon STOM SPRK 5.1 and SPRK 5.3. These are $1,800 right now. Oh, wow. Okay. I think that might be for both of them. I can't quite tell, but they're two like wild versions of your more or less modern prospect series. So they have the X on the dial monster. So they're definitely continuing. You can still definitely get really cool stuff. You just have to find one that kind of like suits your price range. And then the other thing I'd showed out, depending on what your budget is, is over the years, I had a couple of what folks called the baby monster. which was the Seiko 5 Sports. So 7S36 based. Think of like the SRP... SRP485, I think, might have been the gray, black, red one. Kind of has a Zen vibe to it. Different markers, sort of different balance to the handset, but still pretty fun. And those ones, I've seen them like routinely around 200 or even less because they're Seiko 5s. So you can get some of the charm from that, but my recommendation is to find the weirdest one that you can for your budget and, and stick as much as you can to the, the, the flagship line, like the full monsters rather than the Seiko fives. But I do think the fives are kind of fun. I think I owned maybe two or three over the years. I remember having them when I lived in, lived in Hamilton. So that's pre 2012. Oh yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I like this. Um, other than the Patty logo on the dial, I like the Patty version too, with the kind of blue and red. |
| James Stacy | Oh, the Patty one's right as well. That's nice. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | That's a good call. I haven't thought about that one in a while. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, these are cool. |
| James Stacy | But yeah, they've got a handful of these. I'll include something in the show notes that tries to capture some of these, but I love them with a light blue dial, a dark blue dial. I think the orange is very cool. But like I said, I think the core is the Gen 1. |
| Jason Heaton | Very cool. Well, I probably need to spend some time with yours maybe when I come up there in a few weeks. Yeah, absolutely. I need to gain a better appreciation for these watches. I think I've always kind of written them off from a distance, but I need to actually strap one on my wrist and see what it feels like, I guess. Yeah, very cool. |
| James Stacy | They're fun. I think they're a good time. And it's not every day, although we do try and cover as much of it as possible on TGN, but it's not every day that I can swear that you're buying just so much fun for 400 bucks or 300 bucks or whatever you end up actually buying it for. And I always love seeing these pop up on the TGN Slack, buy, sell, trade, because I love the idea that these kind of get passed around as tokens of a moment in watch fascination. And for me, it was a very early moment. And who knows, maybe there's some more seasoned folks in the audience who will kind of take their, like yourself, like take your first kind of crack at trying one out and wearing it around. But of course you should wear one around for a couple of days while you're in Toronto. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Well, this was fun. This was good. |
| James Stacy | Volume 13, sort of, uh, our, our starting point with, uh, with Seiko versus Seiko, which is always fun. Last one was Blancpain versus Blancpain, very different concept. Although to be fair, mine is also $400. So I may, I'm really maintaining a line in the sand here. Uh, for collection inspection, you don't have to spend money to have a good time in this world. For sure. The high low. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. How about, uh, how about a little bit of final notes? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, sure. I, uh, I guess it was just, uh, yesterday I, I watched, um, this film on Netflix that probably won't be a huge surprise to a lot of people. Um, it's gotten some publicity lately. Uh, it's called mountain queen, the summits of Lakpa Sherpa. And this is a documentary about a woman who has, holds the world record for the most summits of Mount Everest by a woman, as her name suggests, Lakpa Sherpa. She is from Nepal. She is a Sherpa. And I was largely unaware of her incredible story other than from a New York Times article about her that I read a few months ago. And the striking thing about that was that Lakpa Sherpa actually lives in Hartford, Connecticut. works, uh, at in kind of the deli at a whole foods and, um, lives a pretty humble existence. And yet almost every year she travels back to her native homeland and climbs Mount Everest, which is just an absurd feat obviously to do it. Um, I believe she's up to 10 or 11 times. That's so wild. You know, and I'm watching this and, you know, she's now, you know, getting a little older. Um, she doesn't look like a super athlete by any means, you know, leads this humble existence, et cetera. Like all of that would be remarkable. But as the movie goes on, it digs deeper into her story and there's a very dark side to it. Um, that I'm not going to give away. Um, and she has, and I believe the, the, the title sort of hints at it when it says the summits of LACMA Sherpa. And then that's sort of a figurative as well as a literal sense. There's, there was just a lot going on in her life. Um, that was very traumatic. Um, once she, she moved to the U S and, um, got into a relationship with somebody who wasn't very nice to her and and her overcoming of that and then still being able to do these this remarkable feat of climbing ever so many times it's a very inspiring story it's a very sad story um i just found this a fantastic movie and look i like i said this is no great secret this movie's been out for a while and it's gotten a lot of publicity so a lot of people have probably already seen it but if you haven't and you've seen it maybe in your queue or as a suggested film but you're not sure i would say wholeheartedly to Go and check that out. It's really, really good. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, no, I absolutely agree that that story that you referenced, I remember that was on a final notes previously. Yes. And it was an incredible story. And this has been on my watch list since it popped up. So I'm going to try and get to that in the next week or so. That's a fascinating story. I mean, I remember being essentially like enthralled by the story. Yeah. So I'm sure the doc's probably great. Yeah, really good. Very cool. All right. You have Mine is one that I've kept quiet for some time. I wanted to be careful before I talked about these because it's a very weird thing that I got kind of obsessed with about four or five months ago, along with my brother, Grant. And these are called Rokid Max AR glasses. I think I might have mentioned them once or twice on the show in the past. I don't believe they ever made it as far as a final note. So at 300, I'm willing to get that wrong. Eventually, there'll be some overlap or whatever. But what these are are essentially screens that you wear on your face. They look kind of like nerdy, dumb glasses, and they connect to your phone or your computer and they operate as another monitor. Wow. And I've been curious about this for a long time. I don't really care about AR or VR, but I really like the idea of having a big screen that I carry with me for planes, for maybe I want to lay in bed in a certain position and play Call of Duty for hours on end. Yeah. And this way, it's like a 110 inch image at six feet, kind of floating in front of you. I looked up a handful of these. I bought these with my own money and I paid full price, so there's no connection to Rokia. I didn't reach out to them. They have no clue I'm talking about it, the rest of it. These are like 500 bucks. They're actually a gift from my brother and I really like them. They're not perfect, but especially for planes. For planes, they're kind of jaw dropping. It's better than first class. Wow. You can run them with or without a shield on the glasses. So without, you can actually see your computer and the screens kind of higher up in your vision, kind of at the horizon point. So it's very comfortable to kind of be able to look down and see your keyboard or shortcuts and that kind of thing. But when you're looking dead ahead, you're seeing this huge image. It's a 1080 image that's co-projected. So there's two little projection screens and each one can be focused independently. So these are, I think one of the only ones that pass like Tuv eye safety standards, Tuv's a German standardization system. So I have worn them for like four or five hour flight without headaches, without, and I have some sensitivity, like tough optics. Like when things are a little bit off in terms of focus or that sort of thing, it's literally just, they don't have a battery or anything, so they don't weigh anything on your face. They weigh about as much as sunglasses. And there's a little USB cable that goes down to your phone. and then it just doubles whatever's on your phone. So you wanna watch YouTube, you can do that. If you plug it into the iPad, I can do Call of Duty, I can do my laptop, all that kind of thing. They just operate like a second screen. Wow. And they are HDCP compliant, so you can buy like a VOD film, like something where you pay for it and then download it to your device and watch it on a plane. It'll still work on these devices, which is kinda nice. Sometimes that's not always the case. And I think there's more competition for this than there was even six months ago. There's a couple other brands making these sorts of things. Personally, I'm fascinated by the idea of those Apple, the Apple VR headset, but I don't want most of the features. I just like the idea that I could maybe divide up my workspace and not have any monitors in my life, just pick the headset up and work through the headset for the day. These, on the other hand, are very lightweight. They go down basically to the size of normal sunglasses, so you can very easily pack them and bring them along. And they're just They're excellent on flights. They're excellent when you want to watch a movie without bothering other people in the room or your partner. And they have a pretty good set of little down firing speakers in the arm of the, of the glasses. And then you can obviously use like AirPods or whatever while wearing them. |
| Jason Heaton | So, wow. These are wild. I had no idea these even existed. So I'm blown away by this. This is like, Brave New World stuff. This is really cool. So, so like you could, you could work on your laptop wearing these. |
| James Stacy | I have, yeah. I've, I've edited whole episodes of TGN without having to look down for the whole flight. Amazing. I can like have my head. Sure. I can have my head in one of those neck pillows. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just so much more comfortable, especially like you and I don't really fit on airplanes that well. Yeah. I'm 6'3 and most of that is like hip to heel. So I'm just in the way on an airplane. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, these have just been great. I would say, like I said, they're not perfect. Edge softness is an issue, so it's great for video. But if you're trying to edit a photo, you'll notice the edges of the image don't project as sharply as that in the center. Sure. That's kind of to be expected. I'm not saying these are cheap, but in the realm of what they're offering, they're at the lower end. And I think the optical performance is good, but not incredible. Edge softness is one thing. The other thing is, and your mileage will vary, the little projector screens that are in there, you're not looking directly at them. That's part of the eye safety thing. You have like a lens that you can focus, but they're so these little tiny screens, which I think are a centimeter square made by Sony, if I remember correctly from all the reviews I read are so bright that they actually bounce light off of my cheekbones that then kind of looks like an astigmatism when you're watching something. So you really have to have the little lenses very clean and I don't know, maybe maybe I should. I should like wear the like what baseball players wear to block the sun. Oh yeah, because otherwise like I'll definitely watching a movie and then suddenly it'll be like a I'll be I'm watching heat. It's like a street scene at night street lights, and I'm just like I can just see the tops of my cheekbones reflecting back in so that there's it is a perfect. No, not at all. Yeah, I do really like it though, and I think for a very specific type of person, someone who likes to travel, someone who who does a lot of solo media. Yeah, I've just been super happy with their goofy and you look a little goofy wearing them. Let's be clear, not as goofy as the apple ones or like an oculus system or something, but they don't do any head tracking. You just have a screen that's in front of you. Yeah, they don't do anything else. Like I said, no battery in the unit and then you can you can buy a normal one that plugs into an iphone that has usbc. So you'd be fine or anything else with you or you can buy one that has like a little hand set And the handset actually runs Google television, like Android TV. And then you have Chromecast and you can like sign into Netflix and all that on the device. Wow. And do everything from there without having to like kill the battery on your phone. Amazing. Because through the phone, you are now powering the screens. Yeah. And you're using your charge point on the phone. So there's that as well. You can buy a little dongle for more money even, where you can plug it into the phone and then the headset and your charger can plug in at the same time. Yeah. But I haven't bothered. It hasn't been that big an issue. |
| Jason Heaton | This is wild. I mean, this, this, I'm going to, first of all, I'm going to have to start looking around airplanes to see if other people are wearing these, or at least now I'll know what people are wearing. |
| James Stacy | I haven't seen another set yet. |
| Jason Heaton | But, um, this, this is like one of those examples of trickle down technology. Like we've seen with, um, with drones, you know, like when drones came out, it was the coolest thing within a year or two. It was like, you could, you could afford a drone. You could like fly a drone and make cool stuff. There's no reason to rent a helicopter anymore. It was like, I just feel like this is the stuff that's just accelerating so quickly that we're just going to start seeing this stuff everywhere. One day I'll probably have a set. I mean, $359, that's the price. That's incredible. That's so affordable for something with this level of technology. It's amazing. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. You'll have to try them out when you're here. Um, everybody I hand them to just kind of goes like, Oh wow. Yeah. Cause it's clear. And I think you expect it to be kind of like, you're looking at something that's too bright. So those little muscles around your eyes like contract and stay that way. Almost like on a really bright day where you're trying to focus through your sunglasses and you kind of do that, like, 20% squint. Yeah. And I figured I would get this. My brain would do that squint all the time. I would just have headaches and I would send them back or send them, give them to my brother. We, you know, figure it out. And in the end I put them on and like I could feel my eyes, like just relax, comfortably focus out to the screen without issue. Wow. Yeah. I'm, I'm pretty impressed by them. |
| Jason Heaton | That's a lot of fun. Amazing. That's one of the coolest final notes we've had in a long time. That's really cool. |
| James Stacy | Love it. Like I said, to be clear, before anybody goes and spends their 400 bucks or whatever, a bit of a flawed product. But for the right person, a bit of a no brainer for me. Like, I just think it's so nice to have if you have to work on airplanes or you do things where you're not the driver that often. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Well, this was a really fun episode. I enjoyed this. We had a solid hour. A little Toronto Timepiece Show talk at the top, some Seiko stuff and some fun final notes. Absolutely. As always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to The Show Notes, get into the comments for each episode, get onto Slack or consider supporting the show directly. And we leave you with this quote from Epictetus who said, |