The Grey NATO – 295 – Photographer And Director Gajan Balan
Published on Thu, 01 Aug 2024 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
In this episode of The Grey NATO podcast, hosts James Stacy and Jason Heaton discuss recent activities, including Jason's new cold plunge tub and James' cottage trips. They interview photographer and filmmaker Gajan Balan about his career journey from wedding photography to travel and adventure photography. Gajan shares insights on his recent Arctic expedition, his approach to photography, and his new community project Church and Street. The hosts also provide product recommendations, including a useful online running route planner and a versatile carabiner-style hook for gear organization.
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Transcript
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| James Stacy | Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Great NATO. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This episode 295 and it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening and would like to support the show, please visit thegreatnado.com for more details. My name is James Stacy and I'm joined as ever by my pal and co host Jason Heaton. Jason, how you doing? |
| Jason Heaton | I'm doing pretty well trying to keep cool. We're having a steamy week here. It's summer. You know, that's what you that's what we sign up for. That's what we miss when it's February. |
| James Stacy | You know, yesterday was yesterday was a real warm one. We were at the cottage. We obviously we'd like to record these on Tuesdays. And I just got back from the cottage a few hours ago. Oh, nice. I prefer to drive in the in the morning. It's just a nicer experience. And it was too nice and too hot yesterday to be like, Oh, yeah, I definitely want to load the car up in 100 degree heat and then drive home. And I've got AC, but it's still, it was a much nicer drive this morning, uh, when it was, you know, like 18 Celsius. So I'm going to be home for a couple of days and then right back up to the cottage, just trying to be up there essentially as long, as much as I can. Um, you know, playing in maybe a little bit of hiking on Saturday. I'm pretty excited about we're considering seeing if we can get a bid to, or get our pass for Algonquin, which is a big, uh, you know, national park nearby and you can get day passes, but you kind of have to do it. It's five days out at a certain time every day on their website. Uh, you can't just like rock up. So, uh, that's only about two hours away from the cottage. So we might do that on Saturday, might do something else, but I'm, I'm excited to kind of have like that in my mind, like, Oh, I'll need a bag with, cause there's some real hiking and that kind of thing. So, yeah. That'll be kind of fun. Nice, nice distraction for an otherwise kind of a busy week. And then, I mean, look, while we're here and we're talking about being busy to everybody who's listening and waiting for, uh, the Q and a that, that you are owed, uh, this will come out on Thursday. And my, my current goal is before the next episode, before two 96, we'll also drop a Q and a. So hoping to record that early next week. Uh, I do know that we're behind, but these things happen in the summer. And, uh, I just, yeah, I lost pace with, uh, Chicago. Uh, it kind of threw me off on, on, on a few fronts. So my apologies there, but we'll get it. We'll make sure everybody gets the, uh, the extra episodes they deserve. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And, um, I guess, uh, in terms of a little housekeeping or news here, um, we're still offering t-shirts for sale. You know, we, we talked about this last week, kind of launched it within the past two weeks and, uh, boy, sales have been gang going gangbusters. I think, you know, people, um, it's interesting to see which of the shirt designs are the most popular. It seems like the punched out, which is the white on blue. is popular um by and large over almost everything else and and also the the stealth one the black on black or the gray on black um surprisingly but if you're not familiar yet you can go to thegranado.com slash shop and you can see the four different designs we've got on offer a lot of people have been ordering shirts and then tacking on like a strap or a kerchief set and if you do that um just please note that you will Get the straps and the kerchief stuff comes from me here in Minneapolis. The t-shirts are actually being fulfilled by our fulfillment partner, Printful, um, done largely, um, kind of regionally. So that's kind of nice, uh, gets to people a little faster, but please note that if you, you know, get your package from me without a t-shirt included, that's why. So, um, we had a few people ask about that. So that's kind of the way it's going. |
| James Stacy | A couple people sending emails going, hey, what happened to my shirt? Yeah. Don't worry, we got you. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, man. And I do not regret having boxes of t-shirts of different sizes in the basement. And I'm really thrilled that we can, like, offer such a big size range, too. I've seen a few, like, 2XLs and 3XLs come through, which is great. You know, we weren't able to really offer those, that spectrum of sizes the last go-round when we offered t-shirts. So I'm happy to be able to offer that. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. And we have just kind of finalized what will be kind of the next drop So I think September, uh, we're, we have a cool design from somebody within the TGN world, uh, that I think especially almost exclusively, but especially the folks on the Slack, uh, we'll dig it. Uh, it's a reference to a sort of an inside joke on the Slack and I've been enjoying them. Uh, I think they're nice to have, and I've, I've got the, uh, the full black one on now. I'd like to be in costume for recording. But look, other than t-shirts and that sort of thing, what else have you been up to? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, as I mentioned at the top here, it's, uh, it's been pretty steamy, pretty hot. And, uh, I got something to help with that this past week. Um, actually just over the weekend, uh, a friend of mine with whom I do, you know, fair bit of running and cycling and stuff with, uh, gave me, uh, an Arctic pod cold plunge tub. So this is, um, you know, ice baths are kind of trending these days in the past few years. Uh, people are, you know, touting the health benefits and kind of recovery benefits and things like that. for me it's been, it's certainly been that, but also I'm just a way to kind of bring the body core temperature down after exercise. And after trying out one of these tubs, uh, this friend gave me a spare one and um, these, these aren't, you know, sophisticated, really expensive. Like this isn't like the top end stuff with the built in chiller and that sort of thing. It's basically a, you know, fold up rubber, uh, silo, if you will. |
| James Stacy | Um, like a, like a smaller version of a, of a above ground pool. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And, but it's like tall. So it kind of, if I were standing next to it, it probably comes up to my waist. So I have to kind of step over the side and then squat down into it. I barely fit and I'm six one with fairly long legs. So like just, you know, if you're, if you're looking into something like this, it can be, um, uh, you know, size can be a concern, but I'm loving it. And I just filled it with the hose, set it up on our back patio and, you know, whenever I'm ready to, to get in, or if I'm headed out for a morning run, I will dump a bunch of like freezer packs in it, maybe some ice, whatever to bring the temperature down. And I've got a little floating thermometer, uh, that I can kind of monitor what the temperature is in it. And then when I come back from, from exercise and I'm all hot, uh, I just step into it and squat and sit in there for like, you know, 10 minutes and it feels great. And I'm loving it. And. You know, the fact that it was a gift is great, but these aren't that expensive. I mean, I've seen them on Amazon for, you know, 30, 40 bucks takes about five minutes to set up and then, you know, probably another 10 to, to fill with the water. Uh, but yeah, I'm loving it. And they come with different, different names. I mean, this one happens to be called the Arctic pod, but I've seen other names as well. They're probably all made in the same, same place and marketed slightly differently. But, uh, yeah, that's, that's been my big revelation this week and it's been a good one. |
| James Stacy | That's great. Yeah. That's awesome. Cause you get a little bit of it from like swimming in the lake early in the season or late in the season. You just feel about 10 years younger for a while. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. So true. And we'll see how long into the cooler season I use this. I realize it's a lot easier to keep the water cooler. Um, because you know, I went for a bike ride yesterday and came home and it's, it's hot. And that thing had been sitting out, you know, with water in it since morning. And, um, and it was pretty warm. So it took a while to cool back down, but, uh, you can certainly get like a $500 chiller that sits next to it, that, that keeps the water cool. If you want to go that route, I'm certainly not. Bags of ice, I guess. Bags of ice or, you know, a lot of freezer packs bobbing around on the surface of it. But, uh, yeah, it's been, it's been, it's been great. I never thought I'd kind of get into this, but it's, it's been cool. Yeah. What about you? Uh, other than the cottage, anything, anything new to report? |
| James Stacy | No, I haven't been doing much, just working, just working, hanging out. Uh, got to the zoo last weekend, which was awesome. So I've got a ton of photos that I just haven't, I told myself all weekend, I'll do it as soon as I sit down, I'll post, I just like sit down. I don't want to look at Instagram. But that's that's pretty much all I'm up to. I'm just trying to make the most out of every little day. Great day that's left in the summer. Right. You know, went on a couple bike rides played a little tennis was a nice was a nice weekend for sure. Nice. Very cool. But let's get into some risk check because you've got something pretty cool on that's kind of a new version of a watch that for some time, you know, an earlier version of James was quite obsessed. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, Martin from Sherpa watches, uh, had been asking me for quite a while. Like we were trying to connect at shows and he was, you know, he said, are you coming to wind up San Francisco? And I said, no. Um, are you coming to wind up Chicago? He said, no. So it's like, we've been kind of, you know, flirting via Instagram DMS for quite a while. And finally he just said, can I just have my West coast distributor in the U S send you a sample of the, uh, Sherpa OPS. Um, I don't believe it's called ops might, might be called ops, but, but it's all capitals. So I'm going to say OPS. And it's, it's a pretty cool watch. It's it's I've been, I've been eyeing these for so long. And as with so many of these kind of internet based or very small brands, it's hard to kind of get a sense of them just by looking at the photos. But I always thought I always had a sense, like I would love this watch in person and I do. And, you know, as you mentioned, uh, kind of hinted at, this is a watch that is based on a vintage design from any car. You know, well known brand from the 60s and 70s, you know, legendary maker of sports watches, specifically dive watches. And it's what Martin has done at Sherpa is basically recreated the in a car use of a super compressor case. So the super compressor case design was by Irvin peak array, or EPSA, if you will. It was it was a sealing method before gasketing got you know, as sophisticated as it is nowadays, in order to kind of keep the case watertight. And the theory was that the higher the water pressure, the tighter the case seals. And it uses a bayonet style closure on the back with a spring, specially designed crowns that Sherpa has actually recreated. And this watch looks a lot like the original Anikar Sherpa. Um, and it's been kind of a, kind of an internet unicorn. I mean, I've wanted to see one of these for years and they're just not readily around to get hands on, but it's, it's a lot of fun. It wears smaller than I thought. It kind of looks like a big watch online. It's 40 millimeters across. I believe it's rated at, uh, let me take a look at their website. Uh, they are saying it's 13 and a half millimeters thick. It feels slimmer than that, strangely, but I think there's a domed crystal on this thing. It's 49.3 lug to lug. This one has the DLC black case. Twin crowns, obviously, with this very distinctive protector between the two crowns kind of sticking out on the side. Very colorful, very dynamic looking dial. Just a really, really fun, well-made watch. And this was somebody's personal sample, so I'm aware that it's been worn a fair bit, but it seems to function well. It's just a cool watch. |
| James Stacy | Nice. Yeah, I think these look incredible. Price points higher than I expected. It is, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's $6,400. They've, uh, they should be able to deliver a pretty fantastic watch. And certainly at least in the images, the watch looks incredible, very distinctive design. I love the gray and black and orange kind of color scheme, obviously. Uh, they're, they're just a really cool watch. So, uh, I dig, I dig the design for sure. And glad that you got a chance to take a peek at it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And, and you know, I I'm, I'm not one who generally addresses the price question. I will acknowledge that $6,400 is a lot of money. for a watch that isn't from a top brand. I mean, you're talking well above Tudor, you know, Pelagos territory. Um, if I were to look at kind of a similar size brand, maybe in terms of, you know, quality, et cetera, maybe like the M 60 from a vertex, but that's even probably half of what this is, um, for, for what I would consider kind of similar quality. Now I realized there was some engineering that had to go into the development of the Sherpa. There's some detailing, as you mentioned, like even in the movement, some of the wheels have some, Sanskrit writing that it's been engraved on it, et cetera. But it's, it's, it is a lot of money. And I just, my feeling is always like pricing is what the market will bear. And if people don't want to pay that, these watches won't sell. And that's not up to me. And my goal is to kind of just wear this and get a sense for the watch, not to, you know, tell people if it's worth that amount of money or not, because it really does come down to kind of personal taste and how you want to spend your, your hard-earned $6,400. So for sure. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, you have a bit of an uphill battle convincing folks of a brand new brand kind of operating into that space. But maybe it's the kind of thing you just got to get your hands on. |
| Unknown | Right? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah, cool. Well, at the other end of the spectrum, you have something Oh, yeah, equally cool, but far less expensive on and I'm curious about this one. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, the other day I was just as I am want to do kicking around on the TGN slack and I can't remember if it was Gregory or somebody else posted it, just a great wrist shot of a Timex of an Iron Man, like an eight lap Iron Man. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? I want to play that game. And I went into my little area where I keep all these boxes of watches, because I knew I had a couple that had been sent to me by Timex Japan some time ago. Yeah. And they just arrived out of the blue. I think my colleagues at Houdinki Japan kind of arranged for it, but they arrived with no paperwork, no know anything. And from what I could tell, they weren't necessarily even part of like a special launch. I think it might've just been a series of Japanese LEs that were released. And I've worn a couple of them. There's one, they sell one that's almost identical to one of my first watches, an early 90s Iron Man. And then the other day I was digging around and I saw this one that had kind of a grayish white case and a negative LCD, which is of course very rare for an Iron Man, almost unheard of for the most part. And I picked it up and started wearing it around. And like I said, I probably had these watches for a couple years. And at one point I went outside, you know, to talk to Sarah for a bit, came back inside and I realized the entire case of the watch is luminous. So this is a Japanese LE they made with the fishing outfitter company called Abu Garcia or A-B-U Garcia. I've never heard it said out loud. Yeah. And it's very inconspicuously printed kind of in the top right corner, kind of where you would expect to see Timex and Iron Man logos and that sort of thing. So the watch is weirdly subtle until you come in from being outside and it's like it glows really brightly. And the combination of the sort of taupe color of the strap, the color of the case, and then that black display. Yeah, I think it's an absolute winner for I think there's some there they were selling them when I posted it for 116 bucks. They're currently sold out. But just I just adore these eight lap the the Ironman you and I actually had to double check we couldn't remember what the sort of family history of the triathlon and the Ironman were and so the triathlon has a 50 meter water resistant and when they made the Ironman I believe in 86 they came out with these at 100 meters otherwise they're very similar. But this is that proper eight lap, you know, two buttons on the face for controlling the chronograph. Easy to use and just like a complete laugh as soon as you go in from a bright area into a dark area or middle of the night. You can see the case, you can't read the screen. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What are we doing? |
| Jason Heaton | These are so cool. And I'm looking at Timex Japan's site and the Abu Garcia one is obviously, as you said, sold out. I'm looking at the eight lap gray shades for $90. And that is some serious impulse buy, like as we're sitting here, like I'm so tempted and it looks really great. |
| James Stacy | So it's almost steel tone is what it looks like. If you'd like, if they told you it was metal, you'd be like, really? I guess maybe we're close. I just, it's all gray with a, with a positive display and looks really good. And yeah, the, the pricing's pretty hard to beat for just for fun. |
| Jason Heaton | is the strap better than the old ones? This the strap looks nice in the photos is a little more supple. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, the strap is is definitely a higher quality. And I would say it's probably less, it's probably more synthetic than the old ones. You know, the old ones were fine, but they eventually the UV would would dry them out. And they snap, right? Yeah, which is one of the reasons I think, you know, Back in the day, I had one of those cool Velcro straps. Oh, yeah. I'm not using cool correctly there, I don't think, but... But I had one of the Velcro straps with kind of like an African pattern on it. Oh, yeah. Like a Keith Haring sort of vibe. Yeah. That's how I wore mine, because I could go through... As an active kid, I could go through one of these straps in less than a year, just between the sweat and then an entire summer in the sun and all that kind of stuff. So great watches though, super fun. |
| Jason Heaton | Like there's a definite theme going on here, I would say, with us over the past several months. Maybe it's a summer thing. I don't know. But between Aqualands and the new UDT coming from Momentum. Oh, I can't wait. The Timex Ironman. I just feel like we're in this sort of quartz, analog, digital, full digital sort of phase these days. I just feel it. It's like the zeitgeist. We seem to talk about these a lot. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I put it in a Houdinki story just recently that I was in my quartz era, but it's not a crisis, which I kind of enjoyed. But I just think, especially when you get into stuff that's, if we're talking two digit prices, and you've got something that like got me into the hobby, could get anybody into the hobby, and they're still making ones that appeal to people who like the hobby 15, 20 years later. So I'll throw those in the show notes and There's like Jason said, they've got a handful of other colorways. Uh, so if you can't get the Abu Garcia one, because we blew it up on Instagram, my apologies, but maybe, maybe they'll restock. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that they're like specifically limited or if it's something that's just being sold and retailed by Timex Japan. Nice. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, anyways, how about a little bit of a main topic? Yeah, let's let's jump into that. Why don't you introduce this week's guest? |
| James Stacy | Yeah, so lucky enough, it worked out where the slower part of the watch cycle, you know, we're into July and then into August, it gets quite slow in terms of new news and that kind of stuff with people saving stuff for September in the gift buying seasons. It just worked out that we were able to get a handful of guests in. I think it's kind of a nice way to push towards 300 with some new guests. Obviously, we had Anthony Staziker last week and this week we've got my buddy Gajan Balan. Gajan is a photographer, a director, a YouTube personality, an incredible filmmaker, and a very talented photographer at that. We met at a Leica event some time ago, and we've just been kind of tight ever since. We even came over and shot the week on the wrist that I did here in Toronto with the SPB 381, the GMT diver. Oh, yeah. Gajan and one of his guys came to my place and we shot that. He's just a really lovely guy, and I think you'll really appreciate kind of his perspective on photography, big and small, and some of these other creative endeavors. And then he recently went on a really cool, I think, very TGN trip to somewhere very far away. And so we dig into that as well. But let's jump right into it with my good pal Gajan Balan. All right, my friend, it's an absolute pleasure to have you here in my basement, the official recording studio for TGN North. as we like to call it, although Minnesota is pretty far north as well. So it's kind of a mixed bag. But so nice to have you here, guys. And how are you? |
| Gajan Balan | Thank you for having me. This is an incredible space, by the way. I don't know if the people or the viewers ever seen a photo of this great recording studio you have here. |
| James Stacy | It's got yeah, we've got some speakers. We've got a TV. It's literally my basement. We're next to my treadmill and, you know, a dusty old piano. It's a it's a treat to have you on the show. I think we've been talking about this for some time, like trying to put this together. You're a very busy guy. I tend not to lean too hard on trying to schedule very busy people, as I know how that feels on the other side. But we met a couple of years ago at the Leica Celebration of Photography. And you, like me, are something of an acolyte for the Leica stuff. And they're a very interesting brand to work with, because really they operate like almost no other brand. And once you're kind of part of the friend group, you get these sorts of invites for different opportunities. And you've done some really incredible work, both kind of with the brand and obviously lots with their cameras. Was Leica your start in pro photography or did you start somewhere else and move, move into it? |
| Gajan Balan | No, I started well before that. So I had an interest in photography at a very young age and then quickly became a hobby. The hobby became a hustle. The hustle became a wedding photography business that I, that I eventually loathed and left. Um, so it was around 2017 where I'm just like, I quit the photography industry cold turkey and I'm like, all I want to do is travel the world and make dope That's the thing that I just want to do. So I sort of reverse engineer. I'm like, okay, how do I sort of get to that place? Like I see all these people doing incredible things. There's clearly marketing budgets out there. How can I kind of go down this path? Um, and so I sold all my gear, went to something a little bit more nimble, a Fujifilm camera, a couple of lenses. And I'm like, I'm just going to go out and shoot things that I think might be interesting and just do that, you know, for free in my free available time, whatever I had and just kind of worked at it for years and years and years. You know, that quickly turned into some lucrative opportunities that turned into great relationships more than anything, just meeting interesting people. Um, but in the back of my mind, you know, like many people out there, I had that dream of like, man, I'd love to own a Leica M6, an M body. Um, and I didn't expect my career to change when I buy a camera. I think there's some people that imagine that for them, it might be getting a full frame camera or a DSLR or what have you. But as soon as I got that M6, I start to see my behaviors change, the intention around my photography change. And I hate that I sound like a shill for the company right now, but I think there's a lot of people out there that can at least understand that you might get a piece of equipment or a tool or an instrument, whatever your craft may be. And it has a little bit of an inflection point on how you pursue something creative. |
| James Stacy | I also think like you spoke about doing the wedding photography thing and the not anymore. I'm just going to guess given the, date range that I'm imagining. You were shooting weddings with full frame, large bodies, you know, two, three, uh, camera straps on your body, that sort of thing. Coming up in that world, even if you gave it a try and didn't like it, that will immediately make you a nerd for an M6 when somebody hands you something that feels small enough to be not a real camera or like not a pro level camera. And then you get, you finally hit that focus on a, on a shot you really want. It's not the first or second time you try, but you hit it. And it's, yeah, it's a real buzz. |
| Gajan Balan | Absolutely, man. I, you know, there was always this, you know, especially in the early 2000s, right? Um, people just market to you that like, Hey, if you want to be a real photographer, you got to get a full frame. You got to get the Holy Trinity of zoom lenses. Um, you saw the photographers like Scott Kelby and Joe McNally, all these legends in the industry that are still around today that made a really great business for themselves in this space. And so you buy into the Kool-Aid, you go into this thing and you know, I just quickly realized it's not for everybody. And that's okay, right? Like if you love that stuff. You mean the wedding shooting? The wedding shooting and just the idea of like buying big bodies, big lenses and all that stuff. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. The wedding thing, I have family members who've gone down that path, like successfully went down that path. It always seemed to me like very little actual photography. Not that it's not real photography. It's very challenging photography. People really care about the Elkos. It's very difficult real photography, but it seems like so little of the actual work is getting to take the pictures. Yes. And the rest is phone calls and scheduling and like, don't get me wrong, that's how businesses are run, but it's also not the way my brain works. Yeah. It looked like a good way to make money while using a camera. If you, if your personality aligned with all those other things that are required to make a great wedding photographer. |
| Gajan Balan | I mean, you hit the nail on the head. I, well, I'll talk about this later maybe, but I think a lot of photography, if you're going to do it as a career is mainly the things outside of actually using the camera. Maybe 20% or less is actually using the camera. |
| James Stacy | Well, it's like that thing with standup comedians. What they're paying you for is the travel. When you get there, you just stand on a stage and talk for an hour or whatever. So it is with photography, a lot of what you're paying for is the process and the professionalism and all these sorts of things that you won't get from your uncle who owns a camera because he's a retired dentist or whatever. |
| Gajan Balan | And with weddings, you know, it became like just going through the motions. And I think there's people and personalities that are built for that, where they truly get a lot of fulfillment. I think for me, it's just like, I didn't find the fulfillment in going down that journey. Right. Where it kind of just felt like, you know, a hamster on a wheel kind of thing. And I'm like, surely there's something in this photography world that I can do, that I can practice on a regular basis and find way more fulfillment and joy from. |
| James Stacy | I definitely want to talk about the decision to quit doing something that sounded like the wedding photography business was working. I assume to some extent you could have just kept going. Absolutely. So I definitely want to talk about that, but I want to go to the other side of that story first, which is when you made the decision to go from hobby to hustle to this is how I'm going to pay my rent or my mortgage and feed my family. Was that a smooth thing? |
| Gajan Balan | No, it's sort of like this bumpy roller coaster. |
| James Stacy | It's a two steps forward, one back with a lot of these. |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah, a lot of sideways steps and maybe a cartwheel here and there. But it generally moves upward if you just keep at it. Right. It's hard to sort of like not grow as a creative if you're working every day, right? I think the biggest misstep that people might or challenge that people might come across is that they might be taking time and effort on things that aren't largely giving them a real benefit. And they might be too late to realize, oh, this seems like a wasted opportunity. But that's also part of the journey as well. Right. So for me, it was like, OK, let me sneak into concerts and shoot some images. And this is when, you know, let's say when Kid Cudi and Drake were just coming out as artists before they release their full albums, I would sneak in, pretend I had a backstage pass, shoot these photos, sell them to promoters, sell them to hip-hop blog sites. I don't know if any of you listening actually remember those years, but these are sites that would break artists well before social media became this connected thing. That was like a few hundred dollars. I'm like, man, I got to make more money. If I want to get the gear I want, I got to make more money. So then I would shoot birthdays and events and it was a few hundred dollars more. And then as you met people there that were like, Oh, I know a cousin and a friend getting married. Why don't you shoot them? You know, these are people that might not have the budget for a big name photographer, but they'll give you a shot. Do that, get a couple of reps, make a lot of mistakes, poor, poor business decisions. But then you're like, okay, cool. I didn't make a good amount of margin on this, but on the next one, I'm going to be better. I'm going to charge a little bit more strategically. And it slowly starts to build. And it's just this momentum you start to develop. as you kind of come up as a photographer, right? And during that time, I was working part-time jobs in retail, trying to just get as much money as I can. But what I realized, and I'll give them a shout out. I don't know if it's still like this, but Best Buy is when I was a kid, I would work at Best Buy and they actually gave you access to their scorecards, their P&Ls, their accounting and all this information. And for me, I was always like, just generally curious. I think, you know, me as a person, I'm like, I find interest in all sorts of things. So I would work there on some evenings and weekends where I wasn't shooting and just like talk to managers, talk to the district managers and just like, Hey, can you explain what this P&L means? Like, what does this mean? What does this mean? And I got sort of like this street accounting degree from all of this stuff. And I took that and just transferred it to my business. And it allowed me to just get sharper with how I priced my weddings and the value that I can give and sourcing suppliers for prints and albums effectively. holding them accountable as well. So it just became this little pachinko game, you know, going upward instead of townward, where the momentum started to like really, really build. And this is all happening at the same time that I'm just getting less and less interested in the shot list. You're losing the spark. Exactly. I'm so interested in becoming a better photographer and learning the business side of how to actually run a creative business. But the actual photography was something I was just losing interest on. |
| James Stacy | Fair. Yeah. No, I can, I can understand that. And so then you get to the point where you go, I want to do this. I just don't want to do this anymore. You're not necessarily changing sports, but you're changing teams or leagues or whatever sort of analogy we might use. So the goal was to simplify the setup, get more into a space that would allow you to travel and capture experiences rather than events. Is that sort of the idea? |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah, sort of the idea. So again, I started with this very, um, cocky statement is like, I just had to boil it down to one sentence and it's like, travel the world and make dope. That's, that's, that's me in 2017, what I wanted to do. Right. And then the pragmatist is sort of like, okay, what does that actually mean? What do you actually want to do? And I realized at that point, I wasn't actually quite sure what I wanted to do. You know, I was chasing this emotion, this feeling, but I didn't know what that looked like. So to discover that I'm like, okay, let me first stop shooting weddings. I got to just quit this thing. It can't be a crutch. It can't be something I'm going back to. So I just, quit took a site down took the images down. And then I'm like, you know, there was a bit of a pause but I eventually I just traded in all my camera gear got something that was a little bit more nimble that I could just enjoy doing, go back to it being a hobby, having fun with it. And the hard part was like, I got to find like a job to kind of carry me over work. Yeah, still gotta work. And I went around and this is a pivotal moment in my life. I was either going to do a nine to five at a payroll company and just hustle on weekends and evenings, um, you know, make a good amount of money and just try to figure that out, figure it out that way. Or the other option is take a little bit less money, but work with a creative company and just have more exposure to marketing, to creating assets for marketing teams, to develop stories. And that's the path that I took. So I ended up working with a local retailer, part of their head office team to build stories for photos and stories for their marketing team, working with other imaging brands. And the idea here for me was that I would essentially be getting double the experience. My nine to five would be me creating content and my five to nine would be me creating content. So I could learn a lot of these lessons much faster and essentially be being paid to learn. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. And there's a nice amount of compression that you get also from both of those phases while working with creative people. Absolutely. Like, it's one thing to, I have, I've had it in the past where I was the creative guy at an entirely not creative place. And that's like being a bit of an Island. Uh, if you don't have, if you don't get to work with people, especially if it's siloed, like if you're expected to shoot right at it and you don't get to team up with people on various things. So it can be a little bit isolating and it's, it's neat to obviously the, you have to make that financial decision for your like current scenario. Um, but knowing that there was more value in taking a little bit less money, maybe even less time constraints on your life and your family. Because if you're trying to do two things, there's still the family, which is, has to be the number one. And it becomes this whole, uh, like I, I remember that I did, I came at it from a different angle, but it is kind of a stressful thing to be like, all right, like. The smart decision is going to be the one that's probably the most painful right now. Yeah. Uh, in, in, especially when you're building something, foundations are heavy and difficult and, uh, require luck and timing and the rest of it. What were, what were the first few gigs like when you, when you started that next wave? |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah, it was, I don't want to call it miserable because it's not, but you know, I think for me it was humbling more than anything. Right. I started this new job and it was really just sort of earning a bit of a reputation. Like I had to prove myself. Sure. Which took a lot of time and effort, but you know, I think the team there was just super welcoming to me and open to the ideas that I had. But at the same time, like I had to go and just build a whole new network. Like everything I knew was weddings. And now it was sort of like, well, I don't even know what I want and I'm trying to get people to like buy in and trust me. So I remember just like reaching out to every friend or friend of a friend that I thought was interesting. And I'm like, can I just come shoot some portraits with you? And before it would just be like going outside and timing it with sunlight. Eventually when I could scrap enough, I'd be like, cool, let's rent a studio, borrow some lights. Eventually I could get my own lights, like a better lighting kit. And then as I would share these stories, I would then take those images and then cold message and DM other people. It'd be like, Hey, I'm just trying to get better on my portraiture. I love your story. I love what you're doing. Um, can we do a little interview and a portrait session? And I did this little thing where I was like, let me just start recording these interviews with creatives, release it as a podcast, not even to build an audience, but more to sort of like get fluency in that space and not waste the opportunity. Exactly. I love podcasts. I'm on this podcast. Um, and I just found a kind of this thing that I think I should get better at, and this will tie into some other stuff I'm going to talk about, but you know, it was this idea that I, I knew that I couldn't just be a photographer. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I knew that for me, I had to develop a few skills to kind of get to where I was going. Yeah. Right. So the hustle was pretty simple. If I can boil it down to one thing is like, find one person, give them incredible amount of value and great images, and then use that to kind of pitch and get the next person. Sure. And it was just like this, like doubling of dominoes where, you know, first it was just my friend, then it was this local musician, then it was this neurologist. And then it was this beach volleyball Olympian. And then it was a bigger artist. And then it was a music producer. Like it just started to compound. And then as this is happening, there's a bit of this network effect that's kind of building as well. And eventually, you know, 18 months later, I have a bit of a body of work that I can then pitch to brands and companies and work with. |
| James Stacy | Well, and then you have a functioning portfolio that isn't, you know, wedding photos. Exactly. And it's, I think it's gotten better in the last little while, but certainly like when I was first getting into photography, the big things that people talked about was always like a kind of a stay in your lane mentality. If you're a wedding photographer, you're not also a sports photographer. You're definitely not a wildlife photographer. You're definitely not going to go shoot cars or maybe catalog models or something like that. And nowadays it seems like people are buying the style as much as possible. Or in many ways, I think they're buying the artist. the photographer has become, especially just because Instagram means that a person's name can also be the brand. And obviously you have substantial experience with that side, with your name being the brand, but then you also have other brands that you've helped work with or have launched on your own. And each one's kind of going to be an entirely different sort of experience, again, leading to that kind of toolbox. |
| Gajan Balan | Absolutely. Yeah. I'll bring it up now because it's kind of organic here, but like, throughout this journey, I realized that, you know, I really had this interest in movies and films and I'm like, I want to tell those stories as well. So I thought, okay, I can't quit everything and go to film school. That's probably the decision I should have made a decade before this. How can I sort of prepare myself to make a film? Well, YouTube is there. It's probably the most, YouTube is still probably the most undervalued like media asset giant in the world right now. You know what I mean? And so I thought, what if I can approach YouTube as my education where I will, practice the patience and discipline to make a video every other week. And in that, the three things that I'm going to focus on are learning video production, just getting better at it with each and every video. Attracting the right audience of people that would find interest in my personal journey, right? It's not about growing the biggest audience, but just an audience. The right audience. Yeah. Wanted to know what I was doing, where I was going. And then longer term, build a body of work that could attract brands that want to subsidize this journey. That's all value in what I was uniquely doing. And they're like, okay, we want to be a part of that. I didn't need a Squarespace sponsorship. I didn't need a Skillshare sponsorship. I wanted just the right brands to look at me and be like, you know what? We actually love what you're doing. We want to support that. And so I did that. I started that in the summer of 2018. Um, and it was just the YouTube channel, the YouTube channel. Yeah. And it was just about just getting these intentional reps that could hit those three things. For sure. Right. And, uh, man, it's been a wild journey and that's kind of just echoing what you were talking about. Right. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | I also think one of the things that I think stands out for me, the, that, that like final layer where you're really focusing on how you do things, like the execution of things is as important as what you choose to do in many ways, especially when you're an artist. Yeah. And in your case, it's not like you said, like there are people who are fortunate enough or specifically put themselves in positions where they just have to be a photographer. They don't run their business. They don't also shoot music videos. They don't also dabble in travel photography in, you know, unhospitable climates, all stuff we can get into in a moment because you've had some very cool sort of things here. But I think the core of that is interesting is you started using YouTube as a training scenario. And I would say a lot of your videos reflect that perspective. Yeah. Yeah. I thought your preview video for the new Fuji was awesome. simply because it brought everyone up to speed if they weren't obsessed with these. Like if you started the day going, why is the internet really pumped about this camera that looks like a camera? Yeah. And then if they watched your video, not only would you learn a little bit of whatever you might need to know about the camera, but you also kind of like get the context of what's getting there. And so much of what you're kind of dipping into on the YouTube channel. And then I would say even extension of that with Church and Street is kind of education based or like motivational base and that sort of thing. And I think it's a nice spot because so much of the content on the internet is this sort of mathematical bending to the YouTube algorithm for the right title and the right funny face in the left side of the thumbnail will get you the hits on your new Fuji video so that you can be the number one guy and maybe get a better ad from Squarespace. So there's just like different ways to go about it. Yeah. But it's it's definitely complicated to try and do it on multiple vectors. |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah. And for me, again, it was sort of like, OK, if I build this YouTube thing, if I do the photography with indention and just follow things that interest me, that I could sort of essentially build a little bit of a marketing agency for myself so that kind of what you mentioned earlier, it's like I'm not really pigeonholed into this type of photographer. It's more about hiring me as the person to tell a specific story for you as a solution. Yeah. And then positioning it so that I am going after the stories that I genuinely feel interested in. And especially with the YouTube channel, it's like, you know, I just want to make videos that I think I would want to watch. And my friends would want to watch where, you know, most of my friends, you know, they have some interest in photography or closer to no interest in photography. But my hope is that if I play a video, it feels engaging enough that you're not bombarded with specs. You're not hearing about this thing just absolutely ruins this camera. It's a fail or You know, it's not hyperbole in a way. It's more about qualifying a solution, be it an actual product or maybe a journey, right? Maybe I'm talking about a trip, you know, this is me talking about something and how you can approach photography in a holistic way. I really wanted to make it feel like as you watch these videos, if you have an interest in photography, if you have an interest in travel, it's as if a friend is sort of talking to you about it, right? |
| James Stacy | Oh, that's the nice thing about podcasts. It usually brings you into a conversation that in many cases is happening, but isn't necessarily wasn't previously being recorded. You know, I'm, I'm curious with the feedback that you get on the YouTube channel is a lot of it from people that seem like they probably need advice on how to get to the next thing or pick a piece of gear. Maybe, you know, we're very careful on the show that gear can't fix your problem. Yeah. You know, you still have to know how to use it. If it's a car, you have to know how to drive it. If it's a tool, you have to know how to use it and maintain it. And, and with a camera, I think those are, those are the cases I do see. you know, the like endless gear cycle on YouTube of like, you got to have a review out for this and this and this and every, and that's all very important. But I do see the other side of YouTube does seem to be a lot about like how, how, how to do this, how to succeed, how to take something, you know, you're good at, and then maybe, maybe pivot it to something that people are willing to actually pay for or engage with you over and that sort of thing. |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah. For me, I've accepted that I'm going to be like this 70, 30 split of, of gear content. And then the 30% of stuff that I do, genuinely love, which is like traveling the world and just, you know, creating these stories and these once in a lifetime moments. It's one of these things where, you know, it's, it's very easy for some people to kind of either lean fully into gear or fully the other way and kind of be a staunch critic of, of gear reviews and all that kind of stuff. But I think part of it is that like, if you want to subsidize your journey, if you want to like not go broke and you want to do these ambitious things, ambitious things sooner rather than later. Yeah. there has to be some sort of plan that isn't just like wishful thinking. And for me, I've quickly accepted that. Like there are there, at least in my opinion, there's nobody that's going to be doing the reviews. I do it and going to the places that I go to. So let me sort of cater to that market and then use that to my advantage. When, for example, if I want to go to the Arctic, I show them, Hey, look at all these fancy metrics and stories and unique people coming to the channel. This is something you don't have right now. Let me create a story for you. |
| James Stacy | Sure. Well, look, I think that's as good a push as any. Why don't we get into the Arctic trip? It is kind of the pin that was kind of on my map for having you on the show. Would you say the Arctic trip falls into the 30% for the other side of the sort of the mix for the YouTube channel and your work? |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, before going on this trip, actually, maybe I'll take a step back. This company reached out to me as if I was an influencer. They're like, hey, we want to send you on a trip. You go on this trip and you post a bunch of stories and some photos. Uh, how, how, how does that sound to you? And I'm like, uh, that kind of sounds terrible. I'm a photographer and director, not an influencer, but I'll try not to take that personally. Um, and I just went back and this is where like, again, the experience, the, the, the, the understanding and business and negotiation, all this kind of stuff comes into play. And I just positioned an offer for them. I'm like, look, you're a marketing team. I think it'd be valuable for you guys to have photo, but more importantly, video assets that you can use for paid media, for your newsletters, for your social channels. So why don't I give you a deal? I'll give you an offer where. Yes, you send me on this trip, but I'm just going to film a ton of stuff around this trip for you so that yes, we can leverage my audience and I can make some stories for them. But at the end of the trip, you guys also have a ton of assets that you guys can use that are exclusive to you guys, right? And it turned out to be just a great deal for them. They couldn't say no. They sent me on this trip. And going into this thing, mind you, I would classify myself as I hate the cold and I don't shoot landscapes. Seriously. And every winter I'm like, why do I live in the city? Especially during the winter. But I also will never forget that you have to at least try things with intention once, especially as a creative. Like you can have sort of these prejudices that push things down in your priority list. So would I spend my own money to go to the Arctic? Well, no, I'll probably go somewhere warm or something that, you know, appeals to me more. But if someone else was going to give me an offer to go create a story in the Arctic, to go to create a little documentary episode there and create content for them. Well, if that opportunity comes along, it feels like a once in a lifetime chance. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. And creating outside your comfort zone is a huge opportunity. Yeah. So let's get down to the metrics of the trip. So where was it that you went? |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah. So we fly into Helsinki. We then go to Longyearbyen, which is technically Norway. I didn't know that beforehand. And from from there, we get on a ship that goes to Svalbard, which is in the Arctic Circle. It's this little island that is still technically Norway, but technically pirate territory, because you can just go there and start working and just kind of live a life. And for any of you listening, look up Svalbard fun facts, because there are just weird things about this place that never exist anywhere else. Like technically, you're not allowed to die in Svalbard. If you die, they won't let anybody get buried there because of the permafrost. You know, bodies would start coming up from the ground. There's a whole bunch of things. You can't give birth in Svalbard. |
| James Stacy | No citizens of Svalbard. |
| Gajan Balan | No. And there's a real high danger to polar bears on Svalbard as well. So anyway, we, we land there, we get on the ship and we're just essentially traveling around Svalbard. How long are you going to be on the trip? 14 days. This is a two week adventure. |
| James Stacy | The boat is 14 days plus your flight. |
| Gajan Balan | Exactly. Exactly. And they have, I should mention this, it's Quark Expeditions, who are a great partner. Early on, I thought, is this just a luxury cruise company? Like how much adventure is this? No, they're like an adventure company and you choose your difficulty level. But every day they have two excursions, morning and an evening one. They have hikes, boat rides, just tours that they do. And what I appreciated most is that every expedition guide on that trip is like an expert of some kind. So you have people that were adventurers, you have people that are glaciologists, ornithologists, historians. There was this one cat and I'm struggling for his name right now, but he just does like all those ultra marathons around deserts. Oh, sure. You know what I mean? Like those multi-day kind of marathon stuff. So you have people there that really sit in that 1% of humans in these different spaces, right? And you got to imagine when you're on a ship for 14 days with these people, like you're just absorbing so many stories and just information and experience. Exactly. And they are some of the nicest, most hardworking and generous people. I don't know how, cause I'm there for 14 days. They're there for like three, four, five, six, maybe even eight weeks at a time on these tours. I don't know how they maintain, their happiness, their generosity in this all time, but they're there to literally serve us and help us on this journey. Cause they know for us, it's a once in a lifetime trip. |
| James Stacy | You're working with the expedition company. You're going to go on this trip. It's a big time to be away from your family. I'm sure the internet connection's okay, but not amazing. All that kind of stuff. How did you approach the creative aspect? Like what you intended to create? Yeah. having, I assume you've not been to the Arctic before? No, no, never been there. |
| Gajan Balan | First time to Svalbard? Exactly. First time to Svalbard, first time in the Arctic Circle. I think it might be the first time like me actually working in the cold. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | It's not, it's a different way of shooting. That's for sure. |
| Gajan Balan | Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so for me it was about, okay, let me go and look up some books, look up some stories. I'm doing research on other photographers, on other people that have been to the area. And I've quickly realized like, I don't think I like, Well, I shouldn't say this. The type of photography that they're creating is not the type of photography that I'm sort of positioned to, to recreate. So I look at my skills and I'm like, okay, what can I create? That feels like me. That doesn't feel like I'm just making a copy of something. Right? Sure. So it was about portraiture. I'm like, well, what if I kind of went here and tried to take portraiture of these ice sheets of these cliffs of these glaciers of the ocean? And that sort of like percolated this idea. So I positioned the sort of kit, the gear for this. I'm like, okay, let me get some really long lenses, a 100, 400 with an extender on it that I can just try to shoot these. Again, it was just an idea in my head. When I got there pretty quickly, I just saw these interesting shades of blue. You know, there's no sunset at this time of year when I went. So even though the sun was out, you know, sometimes it might be just like cloud cover. Sometimes it might be a snowstorm. Sometimes it's just like incredible bright blue skies and a ton of contrast. And I would just use the ingredients to kind of position my lens in the right direction to capture these portraits. And I just use that as my point of departure. I'm like, let me just look for these shades of blue. Let me just explore these shades of blue, the contrast, the shadow, the shapes that form around them and shoot these portraits. And it, I mean, it's going to sound weird to some people, but I was just like, I'm going to create the photos that speak to me. And I would look at these ice, I remember this one the most, but like these ice sheets that would be crushing under the ship. And I would just be kind of in love with these forms and shapes that were taking place. And it, it started to make me feel things like these, these, these abstract shapes started speaking to me in a way where I was remembering and recollecting emotions and then memories from those emotions. And so I just kept chasing that. I'm like, let me just look at things that make me feel a type of way and then examine them. Yeah. So my day would be, well, if I could start the middle of the day, we'd go for a morning excursion. I would go shoot with my kid. What is that? Like you're out on a Zodiac? Out on a Zodiac. Exactly. So we go on out on a Zodiac. There's kayaking available for people that sign up for that. We would maybe do a landing. Sometimes we do a landing depending on the weather and the location, as long as there are no polar bears around. Come back for lunch, quickly scarf down my lunch, download all the footage, do that in the PM as well. We have an evening excursion, so it might be a hike this time. Something that's different than the first excursion, right? come back and then download that footage, eat some dinner. We would have talks, but because the sun never sets, there's kind of always an opportunity to shoot. So I would find myself just kind of shooting late into the night. I remember there's one time where my producer was traveling with me and, uh, I'm going to bed. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to go to bed early this time. She then calls me. It's like, I think you should look out your window. Cause we have like these cabins on across all these levels. I look out and it's just like this incredible Vista. And I'll send you some links to photos so people can go and check it out. And I just like remember tripping over my suitcase and stuff just to get the camera and shoot these images out there. And so I was structured in a way where that from morning to night, I'm shooting, capturing and just getting everything. And before I go to bed, I organize all the footage. And then I would generally wake up around 5 a.m. and with like a fresh mind, fresh eyes, go and just edit through the photos. Pick some favorites. Call some. |
| James Stacy | Start to get a taste. shooting a new environment means you have to start over again on how you edit. And when you're editing an environment that's predominantly one color, that can be highly affected by any other color in its range, a white environment. So the snow looks entirely different. Like you said, cloudy versus sunny, different sun positions during the day, all that kind of stuff. So you do end up kind of starting over again and you've got to learn to retrust the color balance of your monitor. You're like, this doesn't look blue enough. All that kind of stuff. But yeah, I remember some of that from my experience out to Clipperton. Obviously, I was significantly warmer, but that was also a couple of weeks on a boat, you know, looking back on it because it hasn't been that long, you know, since you got back. What were some of the what were some of the kind of experiential highlights? |
| Gajan Balan | I think when it comes to the photography specifically, I I realize that it's OK to sort of just I mean, I knew this beforehand, but it reminded me that like it's OK to be a complete student. and just kind of follow what interests you. Sometimes it's the best. Yeah. And you know, for me, because I just had this free reign and there wasn't an expectation to sort of, you know, fit or create something that I've already made before. I'm like, cool, let me go a little bit more abstract, a little bit more colorful. So if you look at the images there, there's way more blue than what you would have saw with your own eyes. There's way more contrast in some of these images. We also shot some film out there and you know, that has a totally different look to it as well. it ended up being some of the most fulfilling images I've ever created. Like I genuinely felt like I think I need to make a book out of this. I think I need to pursue this for a few more years. Um, the other thing I would, you know, take away from this experience is that similar to what you said before, and it's stuff that I've talked about on church and street as well, is that really find time to get out of your comfort zone. A large part of the reason I wanted to just say yes to this or find a way to say yes to this, to make an offer that could work for both parties is that I knew that if I went on this trip, I was going to learn a lot about myself. I'm either going to go out there and hate it and learn that, or I'm going to learn what kind of person I am when it comes to this environment that I'm not comfortable in that, you know, again, I don't, I still don't really enjoy the cold, but when I went there, I had to prepare. I had to get all the clothes and layers and all that kind of stuff. So I'm like, you know what? The cold is not that bad. Is this a place that I'm going to put high up on my travel destinations? Probably not, but I know I can do it. And that doesn't come from without me going outside of my comfort zone and finding a way to say yes to this. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, the comfort zone thing, I think, can be considered in almost any aspect of the way you do almost anything. And some of that the constrictions cool, but otherwise, like always using the same camera can be limiting, especially just mentally. Yeah, it has nothing to do with what the camera can or can't do. And I think it's the same thing with the environments in which you set your work. It's very easy. I mostly take photos of watches, and if I was left to no real consideration of it, they would all be a watch with a cup of coffee on a white marble table, because it's the easiest, most pleasing. But then you're like, wait, I think our audience has maybe seen this photo 500,000 times, or a joke we made when you and I were hanging out to shoot the Seiko week on the wrist, is I said, we can do anything, but we really can't show me holding a camera up to my face. We have done this We did it 30 times and then we did it another 30 times just to make sure no one missed it. And now we don't do that anymore as far as like Houdinki video goes. You know, you learn lessons along the way, you make little pivots and that sort of thing. But I agree that there are certain types of constraints that can really elevate the creative process. And there's some that totally like not being willing to try something or to go somewhere that's uncomfortable. To go somewhere, also just to go somewhere where your audience isn't already seeing all those photos. Yeah. Don't get me wrong, there's some really remarkable photography coming out of the Olympics this week, but I'm not sure it's a job I would have leapt at. Just because you will be shoulder to shoulder with 500 other people who are really good at their job. |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah, I've seen the Olympics and I'm in awe of some of these photographers. The surfing ones, wow. I was just going to mention it. It came out this morning, this guy just kind of standing there with a finger in the air. |
| James Stacy | I'll put it in the show notes, the photos. |
| Gajan Balan | And there's another one where it's just like this person capturing table tennis and it's like super compression where you just see like the text on the ball and you see their eye on the ball. And I'm like, I love these photos. Would I agree to this job? Probably not. I think for me, you know, it'd be a different kind of job if I ever got the opportunity for it. And, you know, just echoing what you said, right, is like there are things that you should try and get out of your comfort zone phone. but there's also nothing wrong with knowing absolutely to a certain degree. Like, yeah, I'm probably not going to enjoy that experience. So let me at least position myself somewhere else. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, for sure. And you know, you, you mentioned it briefly in talking about it. Uh, one of the more recent phases of your sort of dominance of, of, you know, ideas and that sort of thing would be, you know, with church and street. And I would love an explanation, you know, for the, for the audience as to like what church and street is, how it kind of complements the rest of what you're up to. |
| Gajan Balan | I look at sort of, uh, I hate, I hate, oh man, I'm really going to piss some people off. I'm sorry. But like, I do look at what I'm creating as this brand, right? There is this thing that I'm creating and I'm trying to use that to, to subsidize my journey and do cool things. And I look at it, you know, as a traditional, traditional marketing funnel, right? Where at the top you sort of have my Instagram channel where it's like, here's a bunch of my photos. This is kind of what I'm creating on a regular basis. And then below that is a YouTube channel. It's like, Hey, You want to learn more about my photography and the cameras that I'm using? Cool. Here's a YouTube channel for you. And then, you know, as you kind of go down, I started to think like, okay, what else am I providing to kind of help either brands or sponsors or, or even like students on this journey to kind of see like what I can offer or value I can give them. So I quickly realized that I get a lot of joy from other people getting better at photography. Oh yeah. And I also realized that I can't just help everyone. My time can't be split in that way. I can't just trade a bunch of my time to help people on the journey. So, you know, it was also a cross of like, look, I'm making 70% of these gear videos, but I really want to talk about the photography. Like that's the stuff I really enjoy. So what could I do? And I was watching what people were doing on Substack, especially, you know, TGN and what you guys have been doing. even though it's largely audio based, you have still like the show notes there and leveraging sub stack and the technologies to kind of share your messaging. So I've been studying that and I'm like, you know what? I can have this little community called Church and street where I will share a photography story every week. And the idea is to just give people insight into the things I'm doing and how I'm doing them and give them very like specific stories. So sometimes it'll be just like one photo and like three paragraphs, Uh, sometimes it'll be like 3000 words of like, Hey, here's how I approach film photography in the Arctic. And my belief is that this is my way of just giving value, building some value, right? Where the people that really want to sort of like learn more about the photography journey, get maybe a nugget of information on how they can improve their craft. You know, I can't respond to every message. I can't respond to every single email, but at least with this on a regular basis, I can write about things that I genuinely find interesting. And the belief is that people will actually derive some value from that. And I think the most recent examples I talked about, you know, using flash photography at a reception. So yeah, I don't shoot weddings anymore, but a friend of mine, a very good friend of mine was getting married. And part of my gift is like, look, I'm going to come in there with my camera. I'm gonna shoot some photos for you. We shot his reception and he looked at it and like, they were overjoyed. It was just a different style of it. So I'm like, cool. Let me take that. and turn it into a story. And then I had someone comment saying, I have my niece's wedding coming up. I'm going to take this. I'm going to practice this. And then they came back and left another comment and like, thank you so much. She was overwhelmed and all this. Like that makes me the happiest. Right. So Church and Street in a nutshell is me trying to provide value for the photography community from the places that, you know, I feel a level of competency from and doing it in a way that feels accessible, that is genuine, that's authentic. and also like interests me. Like I do actually enjoy writing about these things. Uh, and so it makes it easy to do. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. Well, that's great. And you know, I've, I've dipped in and out of that content since, uh, since you let me preview it some time ago. And I, yeah, I think the tone that you explained there is like locked in. It's a, it's super helpful. It's very much, uh, not about like, this is the camera you should buy or something. It'll be more about the lesson behind the camera or behind an experience and that sort of thing. And look, I mean, from my standpoint with TGN, and certainly I believe Jason's as well, it's nice to give people the ability to ladder up to the level of their enthusiasm. And for some people that might be... I've talked to people occasionally who will only listen to an episode that is clearly about watches, and they skip the first five minutes where we talk about how cold or hot it is, right? And I go, yeah, cool. And then you meet other people who have listened through multiple times to the entire run of the series, And you go, well, for those folks, they probably would find more value in, you know, the, the monthly Q and a episode or the slack, right. We're just the ability to add depth when it's when it's needed, but really doesn't, doesn't step away from the core product, like yours being the photography and director work. And this becomes this complimentary layer. that brings you a bit of a community and brings you people who actually get to try something and then offer you feedback on... Yeah. And I think that's all really, really special. And I think that's a little bit of like a supercharger for creativity, is to know that even if something went wrong in job A, the fourth tier, the blog or whatever, you could tell the story there. And it always gives you another outlet for like, how do I address sharing or talking about something. Yeah. To have more than one platform. |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah. Yeah. And, and this year, I mean, you know, this thing grew faster than I imagined. And this year I opened up a paid tier. Uh, the paid tier will never subsidize the amount of work that goes into it. But the cool thing for me is that like, okay, for those of you that really want to get better or really want to sort of like getting set on the per paid tier is just like doubling the post and a few extra perks. Like you get my workshop and styles. I never tried to push it or sell it, but that's the place where I'm like, Okay, I want to share something that's a bit more personal. Maybe there's more emotional elements to it. Maybe it's more about the struggles and stuff like that. And I just don't want to make it widely available. Yeah. So I offer it to those people that like- That qualified themselves. Yeah, exactly. |
| James Stacy | It's like- They basically have put their hand in the air and said, like, I want more. |
| Gajan Balan | I want more. Exactly. Not unlike what you guys provide, right? There's some people that- As much as possible. Love it so much. I'm like, look, I want to hear you guys talk more about this stuff, especially your adventures and things outside of watches, and they will pay in and support that journey. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, it's always, it's always been fun, um, to, to actually find out that you're not just making something that people like, cause it's similar to something else, but people find you because you're making something that really only you would make. Yeah. Which at times does mean that like, yeah, Jason and I put out an episode that we know isn't going to be popular except for the core. Right. And like you see it, the numbers couldn't care less. |
| Gajan Balan | I mean, look, I hope people are paying attention to those movie episodes where you guys can just pick your favorites because that is probably my favorite series all the time. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. It's, it's, We had to put a limit on it because it's really easy to be like, Oh, every, every six, eight weeks and be like, I guess I could come up with another five movies. And after a while we were like, we're not a movie podcast. We did a bunch of these over the pandemic. So we're, it looks like we're going to land somewhere around one a year, like one proper a year. And yeah. And if you're listening and you're wishing we did more film clubs, just check out my brother's podcast. We share a bunch in personality. Um, he knows way more about movies than I do, but it's called single serving cinema. So he and his buddy, Tay, each pick one scene from a film and talk about that for the whole episode. |
| Gajan Balan | Oh, wow. Okay. |
| James Stacy | That's great. And I mean, beyond something like that, do you have any like kind of specific advice for someone who's maybe getting into photography? Maybe they don't want to be a pro, but they do want to have a good time. They want to make art they could put on their wall or, or maybe give to a family member or something like that. We're big fans between Jason. I've just telling people to use their phone. until it really feels like your phone is holding you back. |
| Gajan Balan | technique to improve what you can create than trying to get a new camera, right? |
| James Stacy | And there's a couple of guys on Instagram that like trick the camera into doing slow delay stuff, long shutter and shutter holds. And like you watch a couple of YouTube videos and you go like, all right, suddenly my phone feels more complicated than my SL2. But there is this like, it's a great platform for creativity. And the entire, the entire like thought plan of a photo can be done on the phone. Yeah. You could, you could very easily previz, take test photos, build a mood board and an album on your phone. You could then go get your shots. You can obviously edit them. You can then take all that work and put it somewhere. You can also put it all into a reel and get engagement that way and never leave your phone. |
| Gajan Balan | Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, for the person that's just looking to improve their photography, document their life, document their family, that kind of thing. I'd say like, follow the greats like look at the actual prolific photographers find the ones that create a body of work that speaks to you that you enjoy look at those photos like get a photo book maybe go to a library get a photo book or find it online or buy a couple of your favorites and and study those images and just try to reverse engineer them right look at how the lighting how the composition kind of speaks to you and just whatever camera you have whether it's a smartphone or a mirrorless camera just put as many reps as you can to sort of just develop your craft Sometimes people can put this pressure on themselves where as they create better and better images, they might be compelled to turn it into a side hustle, turn it into a business and pursue this path and lose sight of what actually attracted them to photography. So more than anything, it's like, you know, I don't have to give you permission, but I'm just letting you know, like, don't be afraid to just enjoy the journey. Like just the journey of creating better and better images that bring you fulfillment. |
| James Stacy | Absolutely. No, I would agree with that entirely. I think that, you know, everything is a response to something. So you see too much focus put on the gear or how something is edited. And then you have a new group of people who come up kind of more punk rock and maybe it's about film or disposable cameras. And then I think we're starting to see that reflect out in an acceptance of, I mean, A-series power shots and stuff like that, like cameras that I bought and sold at future shop when I worked there a long time ago. |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah. I mean, we, I just got back from Houston and the a camera was a red Komodo X and the video we shot, you know, 80% of it is going to be footed from this key chain camera we found on Amazon that shoots like 480 P and distorted video. Like it's like, cool. This just suits the punk aesthetic of what we're filming. So I guess that's the a cam now, you know what I mean? And it's, it's really just about following that sort of creative intention and just those those threads that have got you in that space in the first place. |
| James Stacy | Well, and I'm sure with your, you know, history and experience, working more on the director side, you can see how quickly gear gets in the way of the goal. Yeah, like is actually you're fighting the gear to get to the thing that you want to do. And then you start to understand why somebody might go back to a camera they got at a garage sale because it feels like there's no, there's nothing between you and maybe what you're planning to do with the photo, especially if you're not sitting there thinking like a client has to approve this photo, it does have to be perfectly sharp and all these things. So it is still, you know, we say this a lot, but it is still the, just the greatest and most Um, like overlapping hobbies, like anything you're into, you can probably take pictures of and you can take them in your style. Uh, it doesn't have to be in somebody else's style. You could take photos for your whole life and never put one on Instagram and just make coffee table books for your own house. |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah. And it's sort of the ethos behind church and street is that like photography can be this thing that you put faith into. Like you just have faith that this journey might give you something in return, not necessarily money or sponsors or value. It's just like, Just put your faith in photography, approach it with intention. And it becomes sort of like this meditative practice. I don't know, maybe I'm sounding a little strange here, but I think photographers will agree with me is that when you kind of just explore this thing called photography and you do it honestly, it has this weird way of kind of paying you back in ways you didn't expect. |
| James Stacy | It is hard to overstate the sort of, not intrinsic, but the human value of a photo of somebody you love. that lives on your wall for your whole life. And I'm not saying that one of my pictures of a watch or your picture of a cool ice flow in Svalbard has the same emotional connection, but it's from the same medium. We've got a couple minutes left here. I don't want to take up too, too much of your time. I am really enjoying this. So I do have to, this is one of those talks where I have to watch the clock a little bit. And my zoom is helping us out by stopping every 10 minutes. Uh, I don't know if I'm not super happy with the thing at the moment as it goes, but hey, you know, outside, I don't think we need to get into the gear thing. If folks want to get your perspective on gear, you put a huge amount of time and effort into great videos about it and we've shared some of them and they're awesome. But I would be really curious as a guy who's reached out and started creating his own community around photography with Church and Street, what are some of your community's content creators, must follow accounts, anything like immediately leap to mind? |
| Gajan Balan | Yeah, there's a, I mean, it's hard to find. Or anybody who's maybe mentored you in the process. Yeah. How about I just give you things that I think people should follow or look up. Number one. All in the show notes. All in the show notes. Wesley Vorhoff, he has a newsletter called The Process. He's been doing it for years and he has not monetized any of his articles. And he just talks about photography, bookmaking, editing, curating, culling. He has an incredible breadth of content that I think any photographer will find value in. I think everyone that has an interest in photography should buy a copy of Magnum contact sheets. It's just sort of like a thing you just got to do. You know what I mean? It's just invaluable. Write a passage. Write a passage, ton of photos, but it shows you how these legendary photographers selected the photo. I think you have to follow my friend Jason Roman on Instagram. He's an incredible photographer and probably one of the most generous |
| James Stacy | people in the photography. So I got my SL2 from, he gave me a screaming deal. |
| Gajan Balan | The nicest dude. A friend of mine, he's a, he's a mentor of mine and someone I consider a brother. Another person that is the same for me is Sean Vincent DePaul. He's a rapper, a musician, but his approach to how he uses social media to share and delivers music and the discipline he has around it. Again, if you want to see someone that's just like elevating the bar in that space, you got to follow them. there is the Joel Meyerowitz Art of Photography class. Now here's the thing. If you really want to get better at photography and you're the kind of person that's willing to spend, you know, a couple hundred bucks on an online workshop, this has been by far the best one I've ever done. And you know, I have no shame in saying like, I'll buy beginner courses, especially early on. I would buy every kind of course I can and just learn. And sometimes it'd be a waste of money. I would do the Skillshare thing. I would buy like individual courses and then I would buy some more premium options. The one by Joel Meyerowitz, If you really love street photography, documentary photography, portrait photography, he has an incredible class that I think most people that are serious about it should consider. The James Cameron Masterclass that he has. Oh, I've heard really good things. Surprisingly, like one of the greatest courses you could take, whether you want to be a filmmaker or not, if you're just a creative of some kind, something that you should look into. And maybe there's a free trial of Masterclass where you can go watch it and binge it. You know, that's something I'd recommend. Those are the ones that kind of sit at the top of my purview of like, here are the things I'd recommend for people that are interested in photography and even creativity in general. |
| James Stacy | Nice. I love it. That's great. I want to get to all of your links, but we are at least a partially watched themed podcast. So we should have done a wrist check a little while ago. Jason and I did one at the top of the show, but let's talk about what you've got on wrist. You did not have this the last time we hung out and it looks really good. |
| Gajan Balan | No. So can I give a couple of minutes on my watch journey? So look, When I was a kid, I always had watches. My, my dad would just buy me these watches and like, he loved watches and I always enjoyed watches and, and Apple comes along, releases an Apple watch. And for the better part of, I don't know, a decade or whatever it's been around. Yeah. I just kind of went away from watches. And what I started doing in 2021 is like, as I went on these adventures and completed these milestone trips, I'm like, let me get something for myself that I probably wouldn't get just to like celebrate the year in a way. So the first year was getting a ring. The second year was getting a custom shutter button for my M. And in 2022, I meet this guy, James Stacy, and introduces me to what he's doing and his community and Hodinkee and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, man, like I kind of just want to go back to watches. And in between, I was picking up these G-Shocks and a couple of these old school Casio watches just to kind of have fun watches. Right. But I'm like, you know what? 2022, I'm going to get I'm going to get serious about watches. Um, so I ended up picking up like the NASA G-Shock watch. Cause I just like, love how it's all white with a little red text. That was cool. In 2023, I picked up the watch I'm wearing right now, which is sort of like, I would say like the starter pack for anyone that's getting into watches. It's a great choice. It's a Tissot PRX, you know, silver blue dial. It's very much silver watches with a blue face. Easy to read. Um, yeah, I wear them all the time. The poor man's Royal Oak, you know what I mean? It looks stylish and comfortable on the wrist. And after I got it, I'm just like, You know what? I'm just going to just be a watch person now. I don't have to go and get everything, but each year I'm going to set a little bit aside. Sure. And depending on how the year goes, I feel like I earned it. I'm just put together a little collection. So this is the one I'm wearing right now. And I think the next one is going to be a khaki feel the Hamilton. Good choice. I got one here. You can borrow. |
| James Stacy | Oh, give it a try for a bit. Done. Done. But I do, I do want to make sure that You can get home in time to see your family today. You don't have to take up too much of your time with me, but thank you so much for coming on the show. Why don't you give people a couple of the links? Where should they go? Where can they check out Church and Street? What's the Instagram? |
| Gajan Balan | Absolutely. If you go to churchxstreet.com, that is a community where I'm sharing a new photography story every week. You can go there. Let me know what you think. I genuinely would love to hear for those of you listening that might sit on the periphery of the photography space, what you think about some of the images and the stories that are being shared there. If you search my name on YouTube, very easy to find, you'll find a ton of gear videos. So if you are, I designed the videos to be like, you know, if you're already considering this particular Leica camera or this particular Fuji camera, this is sort of reviews constructed for that person. It's not about saying everything that's wrong with it and going through the speeds and feeds. It's about qualifying a product. It might be for you. It might not be for you. And then of course you can find my Instagram, my personal Instagram. That's also where I'm sharing images, but those are sort of like, the three places you'll find me sharing my stories, my adventures, my content. And yeah, this has been great. Thank you for having me as a listener to now be on the show. It's something I'm truly honored by. And I will just once again say that, you know, if you have two movie episodes a year, I don't think that's too much. OK, I think we might be able to do two. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. I'm glad you like him. I'm thrilled to have had you on the show. Thank you so much for coming all the way here and sitting with me through multiple crashes of my hardware. Which otherwise, of course, works perfectly when no one else is looking, when it's just me. But man, it's an absolute treat. All of your links will be in the show notes. Thank you so much for coming on. Gajan Balan. |
| Gajan Balan | Thank you so much. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Well, that was your chat with Gajan. Look, we're recording this on a Tuesday before you've actually talked to him. So I'm looking forward to listening in on that with everybody else on Thursday, really. But very cool. It is nice to have uh, kind of a new suite of guests on, uh, you know, we've had, we've had some, some repeat guests as well, but it's always fun to bring, bring kind of new blood into TGN and I hope people enjoy that. |
| James Stacy | Totally. Yeah. I hope so too. A big thank you to Gajan for coming on the show. Uh, it's been kind of a long time coming and then it just worked out that he wasn't on the other side of the world. And, uh, and I'm, I'm in my summer, I'm going to stay home or be at the cottage phase. So, uh, we figured that we could get that in before I had to travel, uh, later on in August. So like I said, a big thanks to Gajan and be sure to check out all of his links in the show notes. Uh, what do you say we put a bow on it with a little bit of final notes? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I've got, I've got two, so I'll, I'll go with my first one first. And this is a pretty short one. Um, you know, I was, when I was kind of training a little more hardcore earlier this year, I was kind of always looking for routes for running and kind of build on some miles and, you know, look with, with something like a Garmin or whatever, it's easy to track your mileage while you're on the go. But like, if you want to plan a route for a run, you know, you can do it the old school way of like zeroing out your odometer on your car and driving it, uh, which is far from precise. Um, but I was looking for just some online tool easily and I found on the go map.com and look, I'm sure there are many of these kind of tools out there, but it was kind of nice because I could, it's set up for running or cycling and you can just click through like basically a Google map. Um, and it will automatically kind of lock on to, you know, specific kind of paths or running routes or streets or however you're setting it up and it will give you the precise mileage. So if you, let's say you say this, this week I want to do a 12 mile run. You can kind of map it out from where you're starting to where you finish and kind of just keep clicking through and it'll actually kind of tally up the precise mileage of that run. And I, I've just found it kind of useful for not so much cycling, but for, for running when I want to like hit a certain mileage and uh, just thought I'd share that. I'm sure many people are aware of this and other tools like it, but, uh, it was, it was a bit of a revelation for me and I've enjoyed using it. So check it out on the go map.com. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. When I was running a lot back in the Vancouver days, I know I used some sort of a tool that made routes based on the popularity of that route in maybe Strava or one of the big running platforms. Yeah. Uh, I remember, I remember you could use a website like a plugin for Google maps and kind of do some of that. But that sounds super useful. I got so lazy at one point, if I knew it, let's say I wanted to run 12 miles, I would run six and just turn around and run. Yeah, yeah. But sometimes you're not leaving from your front door, right? You're driving somewhere to run in a certain area. And then how do you even know? And to be fair, it like you can obviously be running and just be looking at your at your computer, your your watch or whatever and know, okay, well, I've done six miles, I could turn around and go back from here. But it can be nice to actually have a route. And then I guess in some cases it might be building routes based on actual like running trails, that sort of thing, which is nice. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I found it quite useful. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | That's good. Cool. Nice stuff. What do you have? Uh, mine this week is a little EDC gadget. This has been kind of my run for the last little while, as far as, uh, product recommendations. But, uh, I bought this with my own money, uh, after seeing several people on YouTube review them and, and kind of seeing a couple use cases. It's called a Hero Clip. It's made by Gear Aid. It comes in four different sizes. I bought the largest one. And basically, it's a very strong carabiner that has like a hinged hook that follows the shape of the carabiner, but then folds out and can be used to essentially hold gear in various spots. So they've got lots of pictures on their thing from hanging bags inside of vehicles to hanging your sandals in a tree when I guess you don't put them down on the ground or whatever, all these sorts of things. I really found it quite useful. The first thing that came to my mind is, I don't know how many of you have this exact scenario happen to you, but I'll occasionally have to use a bathroom at an airport. I'm not wild about public bathrooms. I don't think anybody is. But if you have a 30 pound camera bag that has to go somewhere when you're using the bathroom, Oh, yeah, right. And I don't really trust the dime store hardware that they screw into that sheet metal with my laptop and my camera and a couple of lenses. And this way I was able to have this clipped on to the big handle on my tenba, pop out that hook and just put it right over the door. Oh, that's great. The top of the door. And it's quite handy. And then for the other one that's really cool is it's actually just right in my Jeep. I can put my camera bag behind the rear seat and then use this to hook it around the little arm for the headrest. Sure. And that way, if something slides around in my trunk, it's not going to be again, the laptop camera lenses, that sort of thing. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | This is really cool. I think I paid $22 for it, something like that. Amazing. Let's see what they've got on the site. 20, 27, 28 bucks for a large. 23 for a medium, 21 for a small. They make one called a mini, which I almost certainly need. Yeah. Uh, very cool. And then they've got like a special edition ones. Like they've got one here with a carryology, uh, which if you're into EDC, I'm sure you'd know the carryology sites, uh, pretty famous. I just, a simple product that worked. I, they don't have any clue that we're talking about on the show. I don't have a connection with them. I bought it on Amazon, uh, but I'm happy with it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, this is cool. And I, you know, they even mentioned, um, the large holds up to a hundred pounds and they've site kayaks, coolers, strollers, and lanterns. And I, I could see like just keeping a couple of these, you know, clip to the carry handles on a kayak, for instance. And I mean, you've, you could conceivably, if you had the space, like hang it up in your garage, you know, to store using one of these or whatever. I think this is a, you know, these are really great. Yeah. And this is like, You could have waited till December and put this in the gift guide. This is like a perfect stocking stuffer kind of thing. |
| James Stacy | And who knows? It may still make it. That mini one's very tempting. I need to see how small the mini actually is. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. Yeah. I like it. It's a cool product. Fun kind of stuff. So recommend it if that sounds useful. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Good one. All right. And what's your second? All right. Well, I'll close out with a second one. Just kind of a shout out to a brand that I've loved for many years, actually. It's called NW Alpine or Northwest Alpine, if you will. um, based in the Pacific Northwest of the, of the U S. And, um, one thing that they kind of tout and rightly so is that they, they're really adamant about making their stuff in the U S. Um, and you know, for those, for whom that's important, um, which, you know, for us Americans, it goes beyond pride. It's, you know, bringing jobs back, et cetera. Um, it's great. Um, but not only that, but they, they just make some really cool stuff. It's a, it's a pretty small collection of clothing. It's, this is kind of mountaineering or hiking clothing. Um, and I've worn them for years. In fact, I had written some reviews of their stuff back in, gosh, maybe 2010, 2011. Um, when I was writing for gear patrol and I had a few of their pieces, uh, and then I, sadly I lost my favorite one, which is the black spider hoodie, which they still sell. Um, and now it comes in a few different colors and it's just, it's one of my favorite pieces. Not, not for a day like today when it's a hot and steamy, but like three season easily. Well, probably four season two, if it's a cooler night in the summer, Um, sort of that grid textured, very light sort of polar tech style pull over with an asymmetrical zipper and an integrated hood and like a slash pocket on the chest. And that's about it. And it's super light, super comfy. Wear it quite a bit. Um, I've got their Volo pants. I've got some of their Fortis stuff, which is kind of their lighter weight, um, breathable t-shirts and they've got like a sun shirt or a hoodie with long sleeves. In any case, I really like this brand. I like the stuff that they do and the styling and kind of their overall ethos. Um, and I've been in touch with, uh, I guess he's the founder, um, who kind of runs the company now. And he was kind enough to extend an offer to the TGN community for a 10% discount on basically anything on their site. Um, if you just enter TGN 10 at checkout, um, you'll get 10% off, uh, whatever you order. So, um, yeah, I, like I said, I really recommend their, their stuff. It's been good for me. And it's reasonably priced anyway. And then you tag on 10% discount and it makes it even more attractive. So check it out. |
| James Stacy | And then just just just to preempt any of the disclosures scenarios. Are we getting a kickback for this promo code? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, so they've offered us kind of an it's an affiliate link. So if anybody from the TGN community uses this, we get we get a cut of the profit of that. I guess that's how it works. |
| James Stacy | Support the show and get get some gear for your next adventure. That sounds okay. Yeah. Shout out to NW Alpine for offering it a discount. That's solid. Yeah. Alright, I think that'll do it. Pretty solid show. Always a treat to have a buddy on, and now I'm looking at outdoor gear that I probably don't strictly need, but could probably enjoy. |
| Jason Heaton | That's always the case, isn't it? Yeah, right. Alright, well hope everyone keeps cool, and as always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to The Show Notes, get into the comments for each episode, or consider supporting the show directly, and maybe even grab a new TGN-signed NATO, please visit TheGreyNATO.com. |
| James Stacy | And we leave you with this quote from Seneca who said, Life is very short and anxious for those who forget the past, neglect the present, and fear the future. |