The Grey NATO – 294 – From British Special Forces to Running a Clothing Brand, with Anthony “Staz” Stazicker, Co-Founder of ThruDark
Published on Thu, 25 Jul 2024 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
This episode of The Graynado podcast features an interview with Anthony Staziker (Staz), co-founder of the outdoor clothing brand ThruDark. Staz discusses his background in the UK Royal Marines and Special Forces, and how that experience led to founding ThruDark in 2018. He talks about the company's focus on high-performance outdoor gear designed by former Special Forces operators, their expansion into different product categories, and their commitment to quality materials and manufacturing. The hosts also discuss ThruDark's rapid growth, upcoming sale, and future plans. The episode wraps up with some recommendations for documentaries and YouTube channels.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 294 and it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support and if you'd like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is Jason Heaton and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host, James Stacy. James, how's it going? We're back from Chicago. Our first post wind up episode here. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, man. I was, uh, I was looking over the notes and I was like, wait, what did I do for the last week? And I realized I didn't, I didn't do a ton. I went to wind up and then I needed to wind down. I was at the cottage all weekend. I actually only got back late last night. The weather was way too good to come home on Sunday. Oh yeah. So we stuck it out and uh, and yeah, that's basically what I've been up to. You know, we've just been nice. Lots of stuff going on at Hodinkee. Ben published this letter today about some of the future of the site and the brand. So there's lots going on and definitely turning out to be a much busier summer than planned. But I got to tell you, a weekend at the cottage in the sun is pretty good. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that sounds pretty ideal. Yeah, I've been doing kind of similar stuff, but not at a cottage, but here at home. I've just been getting out outside as much as I can. It's been pretty ideal. We've had kind of a mix of rain and sun without too much heat and humidity. So it's been great. I've been kind of puttering away on the Land Rover and, uh, doing a bit of running. And then every summer they, they put buoys out in the Lake down the street here for cross Lake open water swimming and have like lifeguards on standup paddle boards, kind of keep an eye on people and stuff like that. So that's fun to do a couple of days a week and beat the heat a little bit. Other than that, we've got some, some kind of big news that we soft launched on the slack last week. Um, So people have been asking for t-shirts for quite a while, among other things, uh, caps and mugs and all this sort of stuff. And we're, we're getting there, but, uh, you know, we're, we're not a merchandise company. First and foremost, we like to do a podcast from time to time, but we do have four styles of new TGN t-shirts available. Um, you can go to the great NATO.com slash shop and you can see all of them there. We also have a handful of our climb set. cantonment kerchiefs there. So if you want to snag one of, I believe we're down to about 20 left now. So grab one of those if you want. But the t-shirts are the big news here. I think it's pretty exciting. And judging by the response we've gotten from our Slack crew, they're proving to be pretty popular. I think we're pretty proud of the designs and I think people are going to love them. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, it's nice. The kickoff is basically just straightforward. There's a few shirts that have the logo, different colors. The punch out one's incredible. Navy blue with a white logo. I absolutely love mine. Yeah. And then we have one that has like the slogan, you know, travel, adventure, diving, driving, that sort of thing. And then the cool thing is, is now that this is working and we're starting to get feedback on the quality of the T-shirts and the sizing, we have plans to kind of work with other folks from within our community, within the Slack that are incredible designers. And then even on my side, sometimes I just take little jokes or fun lines from the show and make like t-shirt designs. So I've got about, I don't know, a dozen more and I would just plan on every few months being able to drop some fun stuff into that shop that might be, you know, referential to, yeah, like a bit from the show or a funny line or a great guest or some of these incredible designs and design ability that we have in the crew. So I'm really pumped to see this happen. I'm also just pumped that we found an option that one, doesn't mean that you're going to FedEx every single day with four or five T shirts or whatever it is, which isn't like I'm not against you going to FedEx. I know you love being out on the bike or what have you, but it's a little bit different in winter in Minneapolis, and this way we're operating. We're operating with a third party with print full. They print the shirts. There's no waste. There's no Jason or I having a basement full of double Xs and triple XLs. for the next forever. So this way is a little bit nicer. Sure, it takes a little bit longer than if you ordered it and it was already ready, but we had folks ordering them and it showed up the next, like within a calendar week, which I think is pretty remarkable. And the other thing that I like as... Shipping is an insane thing to do to the environment. These shirts, whenever possible, are printed locally. So if you order one, to my knowledge here in Canada, it's printed in Toronto. Yeah, really slick. Yeah. which makes it a little bit better than say printing it in, you know, North Carolina and then shipping it all the way to Alberta or whatever. |
| Jason Heaton | And the other nice thing is that, um, these are not, it's important to emphasize this. These are not a limited run of shirts there. And as far as, you know, uh, the, the, the not so distant future, I guess, um, it's, it's unlimited supply. So, you know, no rush to like make a decision. These aren't going to sell out anytime soon. Um, so go for it, I guess with that in mind though, Um, because they are printed and shipped and made to order, um, do pay attention to sizing because sizing is the one area that if you order the incorrect size, uh, and it comes to you and it doesn't fit, um, it returns are pretty well not possible. Um, if, if certainly if there's a defective, uh, component to the shirt, you know, bad stitching, a tear, poor printing, whatever will take care of you, but, uh, do pay attention to sizing. There's a size chart for each of the shirts and you can certainly write to to us at thegraynadoatgmail.com. Hit us up with a DM on Slack or, hey, you know, ask your fellow Slack members what they think too, because enough people have started to get the shirts that they'll have a good sense of how they fit. So yeah, go forth and pick a couple of these up. They're really cool. |
| James Stacey | Any questions or concerns, thegraynadoatgmail.com as always, but check it out, thegraynadoatgmail.com. A few t-shirts in there and a few more coming in the future. |
| Jason Heaton | Definitely. All right. Well, I guess with that, we can jump into a wrist check before we get into today's episode, which is pretty exciting. We've, we've, we've got a chat from a founder of a brand that, uh, that I've been keen on for quite a while and, uh, got to try out some of their kit for the fan dance. But before we jump into our interview with Staz, James, what do you have on your wrist? |
| James Stacey | I actually decided to wear the Explorer 2. So I'm wearing the Rolex today. Uh, not really sure why I got back from, uh, I wore the Doxa all weekend. on like a gray pearl on and it was just perfect. Great summer watch, of course. And then I got home and this morning I just, I went down to the office and I felt like a very specific draw to pick up and put the Explorer 2 on. So it's on, it's great. And I'm actually wearing it on a pretty interesting strap that I had otherwise installed on my Group C, which is this spring made sort of NATO style strap. Oh yeah. I call it NATO style because it's a single pass, but it has an over key And instead of a tang buckle, which of course means that you might be between one hole or another, these are kind of infinitely adjustable using like a two way cinch, like some of those belts you see occasionally. I got this given to me by the folks from Spring Made while we were at wind up, and I just figured I would get it home and throw it on a watch, and I threw it on the Group C because it's so nice and thin, but still feels so sturdy. The weave is so tight. Yeah. It's different than a NATO. It's different than the NATO that we have. They do a seat-belty sort of like a shinier version. They do like a rib version, then they do this kind of standard one. And I saw all three. They were nice. The hardware is really nice. But I think the real strength here is they're super... They feel broken in from the start. They don't feel worn at all. They're just quite soft in the way that it wraps around your wrist, but still has some rigidity in the other direction, if that makes any sense. So they really stay right where you put them. And because you can infinitely adjust that cinch, It's really not super difficult to get it really right where you want it. And then if you want to back it off a little bit, cause it's a, you know, sweaty day or whatever, that's easy too. So I was pretty impressed by these. Um, and especially now that I had a chance to actually wear them and they're not like a fortune, they're like normal NATO, maybe premium NATO, NATO sort of vibes. They're about $35. Uh, and they come in a handful of different colors. Uh, like I said, a few different finishes. I'm pretty impressed. It works really well on the Explorer. It works incredibly on the Group C. That might actually be where it lives. There's something quite pleasing about the way that the material of the strap meets the hooded lug on the Group C. Yeah, but that's what I'm wearing. I mean, the Explorer too, there's not a lot to expand upon there. It's a watch I love and have loved for a really long time, but I just thought the strap especially kind of suited it and it's been nice to wear. So a big thank you to the guys from Spring-made for giving me that strap. I didn't pay for it, but I also didn't tell them I'd talk about it on the show. Obviously, Jason and I get sent a lot of NATOs over the course of a year, and most of them are pretty good, but maybe not noteworthy for being different than anything else. This is a little bit different, and I think they've got a nice product. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I agree. I've got a 20-millimeter of their ribbed version, and I've been wearing it quite a bit. And, you know, I've gotten a couple of questions from people that asked about, like, they can't quite figure out how to use the closure or the buckle. Um, and I would just suggest that you go to spring maids website. They actually have an FAQ section with, um, a video on how to fit it. I mean, it's not rocket science, but like there is a technique to it to get it to fit snugly. I'm kind of using one hand to thread it through. So check that out. Really good stuff. Very cool. |
| James Stacey | And what have you got on wrist for the week? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, so I, I pulled out, um, I've got this, uh, CWC RAF chronograph, so it's a hand wound chronograph. It was one that they, they did a reissue of their 19, um, 80s RAF pilots chronograph. They did this reissue back in 2004. So this is becoming quite an old watch now. Um, and it's, it's that usual kind of fab four style, um, you know, to register hand wound chronograph. Um, and I think CWC makes one of the coolest, uh, versions of this. And now they do have a newer version that they just came out with that uses, um, vintage movements in it, uh, which is also pretty cool. But, uh, yeah, this is a, It's a fun watch. It's not, I wouldn't call it the greatest summer watch cause it's doesn't have a lot of water resistance, but I'm not, you know, swimming in this or anything like that. So just thought I'd pull this one out today. Very fun. |
| James Stacey | Well, the CWC is obviously a great choice for the week. And it also gives us a little bit of a nice segue into the main topic, which is a pretty exciting chat that you had with a, with somebody that you got connected to recently through a cool clothing brand, right? Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, I've been aware of through dark for, for a couple of years. I think they've, they've got a really kind of unique, design language and kind of brand ethos. And I've always been intrigued and their clothing always seemed really high quality. So I reached out to them, gosh, it was last this past winter. Um, the CEO of through dark is actually Chris Reynolds, who was the CEO of Bremont for a couple of years. Uh, I believe he was there when, when we visited the wing, um, or we did some kind of a video call during the pandemic that Chris was on. I remember, um, this is all a bit blurry in my memory. Um, but Chris is now the CEO of through dark. And I connected with him and I said, Hey, you know, can we do some kind of a collaboration? I'd love to have one of the founders on TGN. I'd love to test out some of the gear. Um, especially since I was training for the fan dance. And so through dark was kind enough to kind of send me a little care package of a few of their products. And I wore it during my training, leading up to the fan dance. And then I wore pretty much head to toe during, during the fan dance, um, a couple of their pieces of clothing. So, um, finally we were able to put together, uh, this interview with Anthony Staziker who goes by Staz. He is one of the two co-founders of ThruDark and we had a really interesting chat about kind of his background in the military and how that led to the founding of ThruDark, kind of their design language and design inspiration and kind of what their future is. I mean this is a company that Uh, according to Staz, they just launched their first product line in like 2018. So it's a very young company, but if you look at kind of the maturity of what you see on their website and some of their product designs, it's pretty remarkable how far they've come in a very short time. So, um, I guess without further ado, let's get on with Anthony Staziker of ThruDark. All right, well, welcome to The Grey Nado, Anthony Staziker. Staz, it feels like it's been a while to kind of cook this up, but I'm happy to have you finally on the show. Thanks for joining. |
| Anthony Staziker | Jason, thank you. It's an absolute pleasure to finally align the stars. Thanks for having me. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, a lot of our listeners might not be familiar with ThruDark. I think you guys are, you've had this sort of meteoric rise among outdoor clothing brands. And I think, you know, you guys are you kind of have shot to a very high level of quality, um, exposure. I've just feel like every, everywhere I look around now, you're doing new collaborations, releasing new products and whatever, but can you give us a little bit of a background on, well, first of all, you and kind of your background in the special forces and the military and how through dark came, came about and how old is the company? |
| Anthony Staziker | Yeah. Okay. Um, so I'll try and unpick that and, uh, I guess start where it seems natural at the beginning. So, um, myself personally, I was, Born in the UK, raised up in the North of England in Lancashire and Wigan. Sort of usual, ordinary, I'd say blue collar background and upbringing. No real issues or troubles at school. Wasn't always particularly academic. That's not to say I didn't enjoy school, but I was probably more enjoying the social aspect and definitely found my calling when it came to sports. So football in particular, or rugby to begin with, because Wigan, where I was born, is predominantly a rugby kind of county. So that's kind of where I cut my teeth growing up, but always been to the outdoors, into getting outside, getting my hands dirty, just love that kind of aspect of, you know, just general childhood really. And then around about age six, my parents split up. I then relocated to Nottingham and I It's a funny story. I remember sort of moving, um, everything sort of changing, being slightly different, uh, as a kid, trying to adapt and, uh, not trying to stand out too much and joining, uh, my sort of, sort of, uh, school. Uh, clearly I had a funny accent coming from, uh, up North. So immediately attention was drawn to me. And I also noticed there were no rugby posts on the sports field. So it's all football or soccer. Uh, as you, the further, the further down, you generally speak in that you move down the country. So very had to quickly adapt and start playing football from a young age, which I enjoyed. Um, but yeah, I guess from early age all the way through school again, just, um, nothing really to write home about other than just being super into the, into the sports and that side of things. But yeah, I think around about what it was aged 11, I kind of had my first real, um, traumatic experience. I lost my mom at a young age at 11 there. Uh, that was kind of my world turned upside down very quickly overnight. You know, it was very sudden. It was a brain hemorrhage, so we didn't see that coming. There was no time to prepare. Fortunately, myself, my brother were with my visiting my dad at the time at the weekend, uh, came back and I guess from there that really kind of changed my outlook on life and kind of who I was as a person. That's sort of adversity at a young age, I guess, kind of shaped me. It definitely kind of lit a fire in my belly, made me quite angry. And I think I leaned into that anger and thankfully, looking back now with hindsight, managed to kind of channel that energy and anger into sports. So I got really into football. I started playing at quite a high level. I started playing for the county, England schoolboys. I was then with professional football teams and kind of Looking back now, I guess all my eggs were put into that basket into playing professional sport at a high level. Um, unfortunately that didn't sort of pan out the way I would have hoped it would. And around about sort of 16, 17, I had quite a bad injury. I also used to race motocross bikes, loved motocross. I had quite a bad injury, dislocated my knee. And that was kind of my dream shattered in an instance. In fact, I came over to America, um, to play for England. We played against the USA All-Stars team. And off the back of that was offered a scholarship, full-time scholarship at University of South Carolina, which I accepted. That fell through. I filled out some amateur eligibility forms incorrectly. You guys are pretty strict on the forms over there and I guess what you deem to be professional and non-professional. Um, at the time the coach was on holiday and I was just filling out these forms and sending them back thinking nothing too much of it. But so that fell through now I'm sort of 17, 18. I was told I could put that application on hold for a year. I went to college, started playing football again, enrolled in a BTEC national diploma in sports science, um, completed that course, started playing for the England college team as well. And then started playing some professional football. I then was a gym instructor. So I did a personal training instructor course. Clearly I was kind of still into the physical fitness side of things. Um, but I felt a little bit lost a little bit, like the rug had been pulled underneath me. You know, I, again, like I said, I'd sort of put all my eggs into that basket of, of playing football or soccer and it just didn't work out. So I'm now working in a, in a, in a local council run gym, feeling slightly uninspired. I'm sort of two years into this job. And I start reading books, you know, like I said earlier, I wasn't particularly academic at school, but I started reading things that interested me. So military history and Andy McNab and special forces really intrigued me. And also, uh, coincidentally at the time, you know, sort of twin towers had happened. There was a lot of people, uh, you know, the Iraq, the Gulf war, everything else was kicking off. Uh, and I've seen a lot of raw Marines, et cetera, on the TV. And I saw sort of thought to myself, you know, I still feel like I've got more to give. I still sort of had something burning away inside me. So. I started looking to the military and typically there's a bit of a common thread and theme as we kind of move through this story, walk through this story. And it was kind of, for me personally, what was the hardest thing I could do, the most challenging thing. Uh, and it came down to two, uh, units. It was the Royal Marines or the parachute regiment. The guy that was in the armed forces career as office at the time in Nottingham was a Royal Marine. So I walked in and he kind of steered me gently down that path of becoming a Royal Marine. So then once I kind of had that bit between my teeth and that, that purpose and something to aim towards, I was all in, you know, I've, I've always kind of been like that. Anything that I kind of put my, my mind to, I always want to, to set out and achieve that. And I kind of become hell bent on succeeding. And, you know, that consumed me just being a Royal Marine. That's all I could think about, you know, day in, day out, you know, first thing I thought about in the morning when I woke up and the last thing I thought about at night. And I started training more intensely or intently towards joining and successfully passing the Royal Marines course. So I now enroll, I'm sort of 20, 21 years old, and I turn up at the Royal Marines Commando Training Center in Limston, in Devon, and I sort of step off the train, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, with an oversized suit on, which I think was my older brother's at the time, and my suitcase. into a world that was completely, completely different to anything I've experienced in my life, but clearly shaped me as a character. |
| Jason Heaton | I'm going to, I'm going to cut you off here and just, just ask a quick followup on that is, you know, as you're recounting kind of the earlier years of your life, I, I, I see a challenge and adversity that, um, leads to, you know, sort of a new path or a fork in the road that you decide to take a path based on maybe something not going well, you know, you lost your mother, um, you know, some of your dreams of playing professional football went by the wayside. Like, and, and I know that this is the case with a lot of us in life. Like you, one thing doesn't work out, you choose a different path. But I, I do feel like, um, a lot of the people that do things that maybe are extraordinary or outside of the ordinary, um, didn't necessarily fit into a, a traditional path or, or things didn't work out early on. And that seems like the case with you, right? And I think, you know, your, your kind of motto at through dark is, you know, overcoming adversity. |
| Anthony Staziker | Look, we all have to face some form of adversity, you know, growing up through life and some, some people it's, you know, and I always, I've always been a positive person. I've always tried to look at the positives in, you know, in bad situations. And I think for me, that's been a, um, a bit of a superpower of mine. Uh, generally speaking, not much gets me down, you know, or I at least try to look or if I'm not laughing at my own sort of situation with that sort of gallows sort of humor, which kind of, if you've spoken to many people in the military, a lot of people listening that have been in the military will understand that because sometimes, you know, you just have to bite down on your gum shield and get on with things and have a bit of a stiff upper lip. And I think for me, having those kind of moments or pivotal moments in my life certainly, you know, shaped me moving forward. And I think I sort of touched on it briefly at the beginning that it definitely set a fire up, you know, up inside me. And I've kind of leaned into that adversity throughout my life moving forward. |
| Jason Heaton | Um, and, and so, okay, so now you're in, in your training in the Royal Marines, you're new in the Royal Marine commandos. |
| Anthony Staziker | So, yeah, I mean, arguably the, well, it's the longest basic infantry course, uh, in the UK. Uh, and again, arguably the toughest as well. So it's 32 weeks basic training. Um, fortunately for me, this was in 2005, April, 2005, I joined, um, I passed through the whole course as what's called an original. So most people going through that arduous course will pick up some form of an injury or they may need to get back trooped if they're not kind of sufficiently up to standard from a skillset perspective. But I managed to pass through that course and kind of. really enjoyed it. You know, oddly, I was sort of, again, sort of found like I found that calling method. Maybe that was a little bit also to do with the fact that I'd been around team sports from an early age. I kind of really enjoyed that kind of feeling and belonging to something that was bigger and, uh, and better than myself, you know, it was being a small part of that. And I really leaned into that and found some solace and some comfort in that. So. Yeah. 32 weeks at the end of that, I passed out, um, uh, in eight, nine, seven. |
| Jason Heaton | True. What does that, what does that 32 weeks? There's a physical component, obviously the selection process. And then is there, you know, look, I've, I've read a lot, seen a lot of the shows and things, the escape and evasion, the physical component that said, is that part of it? Or is it something different? That 32 weeks is a long time. |
| Anthony Staziker | It is a long time. It sort of feels like 32 years when you're in it. But I think. Yeah. So, so that broke the course is broken down into kind of, um, stages. Um, the stuff that you mentioned there with resistance to interrogation, that's not, that's on special forces selection. So that's slightly different, but we can touch on that in a moment. So yeah, it's broken down into sort of basic infantry stage. So the first nine to 12 weeks is basic infantry, um, soldiering. So learning how to fire a weapon and, you know, uh, assault courses, physical fitness, uh, map reading, all the kind of generalist basic skills that you need to be a soldier. And then the last kind of phase of the, uh, of the course is more geared towards being a Royal Marines commando, you know, so, and it all culminates in the end of the 32 weeks in your commando tests. So everything from a 30 mile speed march, nine, um, sorry, a march. And then you've got the Tarzan assault courses and a few other, um, things that you have to pass to be awarded, you know, the coveted green beret, which is a very proud moment, you know, of anybody's, uh, of anybody's life. You kind of then joining this, this kind of group, this band of, of merry men. And what's beautiful about it, and which I love as well, is the fact that you can't buy yourself into this big boys club, you know, you have to earn that. And there's some real kind of some real beauty in that, I guess. So at the end of that course, I passed, I actually was the top student, so I was awarded the King's Badge Award, and I was also awarded the PT Medal, the Physical Training Medal for being that sort of Philly Sky and the Troop. I kind of, again, this was another sort of signal to me that I was in the right place, on the right course, on the right track. I then joined a commando unit. So I joined 40 Commando Royal Marines. This is a kind of one of the commando units of the Royal Marines. And I'm there for a couple of years. I got on my first operational deployment to Afghanistan, 2006, to Kabul, the capital. And again, an eye-opening experience for any young man at that time. You know, we all think we know what war is and what war will feel like. and how we would like to act, uh, or present ourselves in those situations. But it's, it's very different from the films and the movies. Um, I learned a lot. I sort of went on that tour a boy and came back a man. And then at the end of that. I, my first introduction to special forces was on that tour. So the tour in Kabul, uh, I was on the front gate and enrolled a civilian vehicle. And my first exposure to UK special forces was then, and, you know, I'd heard about the kind of special forces guys, but there were always sort of shrouded in mystery. We kind of knew they were there, but you didn't, you didn't know what they were doing. You kind of left your own imagination and enrolled the guys all wearing completely sort of civilian clothing, long hair, beards, just looked like the cool, cool guys, the rock stars of the military and really piqued my interest. But more importantly, they were all super friendly, really nice guys. So after that tour, I started thinking, you know, about special forces and started looking into that selection process. before going on on that course, you know, I'd only done now two, three years in the Royal Marines, which was still quite junior in my military career, but I felt physically and mentally that I was, I was in a good place, you know, I was strong. So I enrolled onto the Royal Marine sniper course. And for me, this was a prerequisite for joining, you know, UK special forces. So if I could pass arguably the hardest infantry course in the military and the Royal Marines be, you know, in, in the Romney sniper course, then that would really sort of set myself up for success. for passing the UK special forces selection. It was probably that course and the mountain leader course, which are the two kind of best courses that you can do within the Royal Marines. So off I go for 12 weeks sniper course, um, back down to Limston, uh, where all the training courses are held. Um, and yeah, 12 weeks later, I kind of successfully passed the sniper course. And I actually, I remember walking into the office of the chief instructor and he sort of said, okay, congratulations, you passed the course. with a distinction, uh, what sniper billet would you like to go to? I, which unit and, uh, and what sniper billet would you like? And I sort of remember telling him quite confidently, you know, with the, you, the arrogance of youth potentially, but just saying, look, I, you know, I don't want a sniper billet. I'm going on UK special forces selection. And I think me saying that and him spitting his tea out, almost laughing at me as well, did two things. One, it confirmed to me what I wanted to do. And I, I verbalize it then I kind of. put my flag in the sand and said, not just to him, but to myself, that's what I want to do. And that's what I am going to do. But him kind of spitting his tea out and laughing in my face just gave me that extra bit of boost that I, that I think I needed. And I leaned into it at times as well when I was, you know, on the bones of my ass on selection at times, just thinking I've got something to prove here, not just to you, but to other people as well. |
| Jason Heaton | And how old were you at this time? It's like 23, 24. Yeah. 23, 24. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so important. Like when you, when you embark on something big to, to verbalize it, I think, you know, you can't underestimate how important that is to not only, you know, tell yourself that, but to tell somebody else, suddenly you're held accountable. And somebody says, Oh, you're, you're planning on doing this. How's that going? They can check back with you in a month. And it's like, you said you were going to do this now. How's it going? |
| Anthony Staziker | You know? Yeah. I think this, and looking back now as well, there's something that I, I have done all of my life, but I never realized what I was doing or why I was doing it. One of those things is that, so it's not this, you know, people say manifest manifesting things or thinking or verbalizing stuff, which I think is very powerful writing things down. You know, I want to do this, this, this, and this, and it's a checklist. It's a goal because otherwise it's just a dream in your head. It's your imagination. So write things down or tell people and stick to it. And the other thing is visualization, you know, so from a very young age, when I was playing football at a high level, I would always positively visualize myself, you know, playing a game of football, but the outcome during the game or me visualizing things was always super positive you know and if anything sort of negative come in i would acknowledge it but dismiss it quite quickly and then try and overlap it with a positive thought uh you know and again this visualization of me seeing myself in you know in a positive light and i've done that all the way through my military career as well even before going out on jobs you know on helicopters were flying into missions and i'd be running through scenarios and jobs and not thinking about the worst I'd be thinking about the best outcomes for me and for everybody else around me as well. And I've done that all the way through my career. |
| Jason Heaton | Is that something that somebody taught you to do that you read about that was valuable? Or is that just part of you as a person that that's a skill you have that you've done all your life? |
| Anthony Staziker | I mean, it's, I'm not sure is the honest answer that I think nobody told me to do that. It's just something that I, I always did. Um, but I don't know if I'd heard it or seen it, or maybe somebody did tell me at a young age and I've just forgotten, but, It's something that I, I was sort of almost telling myself to be the best version of, you know, do the best that I could do. And it was probably that self induced pressure, but it was positive pressure that I was placing on myself. So it's something that I've always done, but I didn't realize I was doing it until later on in life. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Cause it's the kind of thing that self help people tell you to do, or you watch a Ted talk and somebody tells you to stand in front of the mirror in a Superman pose and it'll make you better at public speaking or whatever, all these little techniques that you roll your eyes at, but then when you do, when you do a lot of them, there's value to them. I mean, there, there's a reason why people suggest these things. |
| Anthony Staziker | I think there's a lot of value. Yeah, it works. Clearly it works. And yeah, I think being, being positive and also, and I'm guilty of this sometimes of, you know, it's super important how you talk to yourself. I mean, really talk to yourself because we are left when everything's stripped, stripped back, it's, we're left with our own thoughts, you know, for 90, 95% of the day. I've been guilty of it sometimes where, you know, you can start thinking negatively about other situations and then yourself as well. But that only creeps in rarely for the majority of the times it's always positive kind of thought and, um, and affirmations of myself and trying to be the best version of myself. So I think there is a lot of power in that as well. |
| Jason Heaton | And I'm sure that that has also come in handy after you left the special forces and you, you started through dark. I mean, I'm, I'm curious how, okay, we're, we've kind of left off with you getting into the special forces or embarking on that journey. But why don't you walk us through the special forces process and then how that led to, to through dark. Cause it seems like they came in pretty quick succession. |
| Anthony Staziker | Yeah, they came in pretty quick succession, but they are intrinsically linked, you know, the, you know, success here, it does leave clues. And if I, and that's something else I'm trying to touch on in terms of looking back now at the kind of success markers. And I think they're special for, I've got a lot to be thankful for in terms of my, you know, I had a very, very, good career in the military. I spent three years in the Royal Marines and then 10 years, my more formative years, were spent in Special Forces in the Special Boat Service. So yeah, look, Special Forces selection was, you know, undoubtedly the toughest thing that I have ever done mentally and physically. You know, it was, again, something that you can't do unless you absolutely want to do that and want to succeed. There are a lot of people that turn up that, you know, on paper have all the necessary credentials physically and mentally, but if there's a nagging doubt there, or if they want to be there for the wrong reasons, because they want to tell people that special forces and not actually do the job, which we, you know, you get found out very, very quickly. And, you know, for context, 240 people turned up on my, on my course, it was a summer course in 2008, and it recruits, you know, uh, military wide. So you have raw Marines, you know, parachute regiment guys, you have army infantry guys, but that these people have all, all done a pre-briefing course. So they're all physically and you know, uh, physically fit and pass like a specific tests and barriers to get onto the course in the first instance. So they're the kind of best of the best of the British military to begin with. Um, and I think it's worth, I think it might've changed now, but it's worth mentioning. I think 60% of UK special forces are made up of raw Marines. So that kind of shows the caliber of raw Marines. The rest are a very high percentage of that then is the parachute regiment guys. And then you have another small percentage that is army infantry people. So You know, you've got some very strong, very capable, very determined people that turn up on day one, week one, you know, it's an eight months course. The first phase, the first four weeks is the hills phase. It's run over the Brecon beacons, which is notoriously difficult. That's mainly the physical test. You know, you're going from point A to point B day to day, very monotonous, carrying heavy loads, you know, over very challenging mountainous terrain. And. Again, you have to make a specific time for these marches. That's the kind of level, the barrier to entry, and if you don't make it, you're off. So that's the kind of first four weeks. If you pass that at the end, again, it culminates in a test phase at the last week in terms of different marches. Endurance, for example, is 64 kilometers. I think you get 24 hours to complete this march, about 70 to 80 pounds on your back. You're self-sufficient. And then other timed marches that you have to pass as well. If you pass that, that's your kind of ticket. Then you're sort of saying that you are physically robust enough to kind of meet the challenges. Um, you're self-sufficient, you can look after yourself and you can also self motivate yourself as well. And you've got to remember on special forces, there's nobody there that's encouraging you to be there. The DS are only there to check the. You know, you're safe and you know what you're doing and you're on. There's nobody there screaming and shouting in your corner saying, brilliant job, Jason, you're doing great. You know, keep going, you know, nice job. If anything, it's quite the opposite. It's, it's silent and you're left to your own, your own thoughts. You know, at night you lay in bed and you think, you know, I'm absolutely knackered and you know, can I keep doing this? Can I keep, can I do the same again tomorrow morning? And that's one of the main things I found with, with special forces and the selection process was just that, you know, um, being self-motivated when you're at your lowest ebb was such a big challenge. I would say that on a whole, the selection was probably, you know, 70% mental, 30% physical. After the hills phase, you're then into the jungle. The jungle then tests you as an individual, but also working in a small four-man team, it tests your soldiering abilities. Uh, again, in a very, very difficult environment, the jungle is savage, you know, it saps your strength. Um, it's, it's debilitating. Everything wants to eat you, you know, uh, the DS just want to beast you. It's, it's very, very difficult. And again, there's that, that standard that you have to hit every day, you know, consistently. And is that, is that done in Belize by chance? Yes, I believe so. Yeah. It was Brunei, Belize, but yeah, I believe it is. Um, where, where I did it, it was, um, in Brunei, but it used to be Belize. I done jungle training when I was in the Royal Marines in Belize, but the selection was in Brunei. After that phase, uh, you're then into the resistance to interrogation, which you touched on earlier, which for me was probably the best kept secret, you know, and. Most of the stories as well, you got to remember most stories that you hear are from people back in the unit that have failed the course. So it's always 10 times worse than anything anyway. Um, so there's, there are sort of a lot of things that are, are kept secret for the right reasons. Um, and I think it's the culmination of being physically and mentally drained from the hills phase, from the jungle phase, you then roll straight into resistance for interrogation. But before you go into the resistance for interrogation, you're on the run for five days. with little to no food or water, being chased down a corridor by a hunter force that are generally Royal Marines or parachute regiments, guys that want nothing more than to catch you and give you a bit of a beating. But after that five days, you then go into the resistance to interrogation phase by professional interrogators over 36 hours, which is pretty miserable, as you could imagine. After passing that phase, you then go into a weapons and tactics phase. This is kind of the shooting stuff, the black roll stuff, all the demolitions, the abseiling down the buildings, the running through the room, room clearance, combat clearance, room clearance stuff. And again, the standards for the shooting are very high, as you'd expect. After passing that, you're into sort of more skills phases. And then you are badge, essentially you, you finished the course, uh, your sex, you know, you expect some big parade, but it's actually a low key event, uh, down at the, your respective unit. You are then. awarded your new beret with the, you know, the, um, the, you know, either the wing dagger for the SAS or the wave dagger for the SBS and your stable belt. And that's you then into sort of special forces. And it's back in life's a game of snakes and ladders, isn't it? You always think, um, you're at the top of the tree or you're at the top of this, you know, the ladder and you've hit the top and then you join the unit and you think, Oh, wow. You know, I wasn't quite prepared for this and the pace. And joining the kind of respected units is difficult. You know, you then understand why selection is the way that it is and why the barrier to entry is so high. And, you know, I joined, again, it was probably the height of operational output and tempo the unit had ever seen. You know, it was 2008 to 2018. And it was back to back, um, operational combat deployments, you know, um, high value target hunting, which was incredible, incredible times. And, uh, yeah, I learned a lot about myself. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Was that where you met, uh, Louie, your co-founder from, from Trudark? |
| Anthony Staziker | So yeah, so Louie, we met back in the Royal Marines. So when I joined the Royal Marines in 2006, I joined the same company as Louie and, Louis had been there maybe six months before me, or even a year. And Louis was sort of that person that I gravitated to straight away. You know, we've been friends ever since. And I guess I've been hanging on to Louis' coattails ever since. He was sort of dressing me in the Royal Marines. I then actually joined Special Forces before Louis, maybe a year before Louis. And then he joined different squadrons, but yeah, we sort of served together for the best part of nine to 10 years in Special Forces as well. Yeah. And then towards the back end of our career, I guess for me, you know, 13 years is a decent enough time. You know, it was a, like I'd sort of touched on previously, a very busy time and it takes its tolls as well on your, on families, you know, and personal life. And I'd kind of ticked everything that I wanted to tick professionally within the military. And I'd done so much within that, I say a short period of time, it's 13 years, but I'd done so much. I'd been around the world twice, met everybody once, did some fantastic stuff and very fortunate, you know, and surrounded by incredible people. You know, I learned a lot from great leaders, uh, inspiring people that had done it, you know, for real in the thick of things. And I'd had too many close shaves blown up. And so, so many, you know, a cat has nine lives. I think I had about 20 lives, you know, out on operational tour. So for myself, mine and Louie's situation was slightly different. You know, Louie was being medically discharged for an injury. And the kind of wind for me was out of my sails and I was sort of thinking, what else could I do? I'm still young ish. And what would life be like on the outside? And we were actually parachuting out in Blythe in America, in the desert with the special forces doing operational kind of jumps and practicing. And we were just sat on a small Starbucks in the middle of nowhere talking about, well, you know, what, what could we do if we wanted to leave? And, you know, for most people with our skillset, sniper, demolitions, medics, all this, you know, surveillance trained people, you know, naturally that would lean quite nicely into close protection work. And, you know, and listen, myself and Louie did that when we left, you know, we, we, there's certain things that we had to do as we were establishing through the arc of the business just to, just to keep, you know, keep your, keep yourself fed and more importantly, your family's fed, you know, and we worked, we were sort of, because of our backgrounds, you know, that, that, that opened up a lot of doors for us in terms of opportunity. We were working fantastic, sort of cherry picking, fantastic jobs working for, you know, NFL, Super Bowls, looking after, you know, team owners, looking after teams, doing NBA, UK, all this kind of stuff. But that said, it's not what we wanted to do forever. And we had the idea of, of through dark and high performance clothing because you know, in special forces, we were afforded all the best kit and equipment, you know, from the weapons, the optics, everything was the best and the clothing as well. And, and I'm not here to bash other brands or clothing. There's some fantastic stuff out there, but we were still kind of quite critical and finding fault in things. You know, an example here is, and I sort of talk about it in my book is, you know, I had, I had a, uh, a parachute malfunction, 18,000 feet at night, a full mission profile jump on oxygen. I exit the aircraft. Listen, Jason, it was definitely not a terrible exit. It was, it might've been a terrible exit, but anyway, I had kind of, um, low twist. So the rises were twisted from the back of my neck all the way up to the canopy. And I'm trying to do the drills, kick out all this kind of stuff. My oxygen mask has been ripped off and you know, my, even my comms, my antenna had been ripped out. My earpiece is quite a violent exit. And, uh, and I look above me at the sort of bag of washing above my head, which should have been forming into a parachute. Uh, I'm losing out, um, you know, uh, altitude quite quickly. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm sort of, but at the same time, I remember my sort of my jacket giving way as well, and just blowing up in my face and flapping, just sort of slapping me in the face. And I had this kind of comedy moment of thinking, brilliant, you know, everything's going wrong. Um, you know, thankfully, uh, you know, my reserve, uh, pulled, but after that, we, I think we sat down and we started thinking, well, Actually, when we, when we look at this, you know, we love the outdoors. We love, you know, um, challenging ourselves, pushing ourselves, you know, the mountains are our home. We love it. We have a lot of credibility. You know, we're always quite, you know, we humble in our approach to things. But when we, when we looked at things, we sort of said, well, we've got so much experience we've operated in thrived and in some of the world's most inhospitable locations, you know, the desert, the jungle, the Arctic Scotland, which is arguably worse than all of those, all of those locations combined, you know, and we'd worn some of the best clothing as well, but we're still quite critical of how it was performing. So we thought naively at the time, as you do need a bit of naivety entering business was, well, how difficult could this be to kind of put all of our credibility and experience into technical outdoor clothing? Yeah. So we did what all people do that are starting a business. We started with the most important thing first, the name. It's been far too long trying to find a name, but it was important. And I think Looking back now, I'm glad we did spend that much time kind of really digging into the details and the weeds. And look, we're not business people, myself and Louis, and don't get me wrong. You know, we've learned so much in such a short period of time, mainly because we've been surrounded by great people, you know. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, actually I have a couple, I gotta, I have to jump in here because I have a couple of questions. So, um, the, you talk about military gear and mil spec gear, and I think it's one thing I wanted to touch on because there's a, there's definitely, a high level of interest, mostly among men, right. With wearing stuff that, you know, military proven, et cetera, whether it's a wristwatch, a pair of boots, a backpack, whatever it's, it's a burgeoning, you know, exploding industry. I mean, you get so many brands and things, but, um, one guy who I don't remember who it was years ago told me that, that, that the irony of mil spec stuff is that oftentimes it's bought on a military budget and it's, it's given to the lowest, you know, the lowest bidder. And so a lot of that mil spec stuff is stuff that is meant to be used and thrown away and replaced it like replaceable and kind of, you know, maybe not the best quality, but like some, something that can be easily replaced or fixed and that sort of thing. And then the other question I have is, so, you know, you, you obviously had a lot of experience with gear, but it doesn't sound like you had a background in sewing materials, whatever. I mean, you knew what worked for you. Um, how did that all come together? You know, like how did you, yeah. |
| Anthony Staziker | That's a very good point, Jason, in terms of the kit and equipment. I think at a basic level, if you're, you know, in the Royal Marines or you're in the infantry, and it's not to bash those guys, but because there's so many people, you know, and government contracts, they have to look at, yes, something that is fit for purpose. But to your point, it's used and abused, thrown away and replaced, whereas Special Forces is very different. You know, we were given the best kit and equipment because Just because of the nature of the operations and training that we were doing, it had to be the best clothing. It just had to be. We couldn't have gear failing. It was mission critical. And with my background being a sniper, look, we were highly regarded as kit pests anyway. When you're a sniper with our background, the finest details, everything's looked at in terms of even sniper taping buttons for shine and glint and everything else. Actually on my Sniper course, we were wearing kind of jungle clothing, but I was then repurposing heavyweight canvas tent material. and would have it sewn over the whole front of the, of the trousers. So when I was crawling through gorse bushes, it was just more comfortable on the, on the ass pad as well. When you're sitting down on the elbows, I was kind of reinforcing it. So I was kind of doctoring and tailoring my kit and equipment to make it more fit for purpose to your point, you know, that some of the stuff wasn't fit for purpose. So, and you do that in the, in the Arctic as well. We were cutting off the tops of Arctic socks and sewing them into the tops of your cuffs. you know, and, and, and doctoring kit and equipment to make it more fit for purpose. And even in special forces, you spent so long tinkering and making your kit absolutely perfect because you knew how important it was. So, yeah, I think then moving into the kind of through dark world, you know, in 2000 and sort of 17, 18, the decision was made for myself and Louis to both leave, you know, the military, which is a big decision, you know, and looking at back at the time, obviously it was the right decision. And I think when we were speaking to the guys and had the idea and told them what we were doing, it was difficult for some of the guys to really understand that or grasp it. They sort of thought, what are you doing? It's so different to what people had done. And nobody had done this before in our, you know, with our background from special forces and had been, dared to sort of be this different and set up a clothing company. And, you know, we went through all this, these stages and iterations of design and development and ourselves just, you know, drawing down designs on iPads and Fortunately, we're introduced to a British designer, Jeff Griffin. He introduced us to a factory in Italy and Milan. So we're in the right places with the right people. But the designer was kind of pulling us more down a military fashion route. And we were like, you know, at this stage, we were kind of understanding the process more ourselves in terms of how garments are constructed. And in terms of the pattern cutters in the factories and et cetera, et cetera, we were selecting everything ourselves, all the fabric and For us, you know, we wanted the product to first and foremost perform. That was it. That was the kind of, that was our priority. It had to perform right. And then secondly, you know, it just had to look super cool. You know, that's the thing with that kind of nod back to SF and being different. And again, hopefully this comes across in the right way. I'm not trying to bash other companies, but nowadays, generally speaking, if you could, if you take the, the, the logos off most of these brands and you wouldn't know which brand it was, you know, and they're brightly colored and That's not what we wanted. We wanted something to be quite different, have its own aesthetic, its own look. |
| Jason Heaton | So when did you launch? What was the year that, that your first collection was launched formally? |
| Anthony Staziker | So 2018, you know, sort of March, April. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Companies so young. I mean, it's incredible. What was your first, what was your first piece or what were your, what was your first collection? What was it? |
| Anthony Staziker | We launched with three products. Um, looking back now it's, it's, it's comedy and it wasn't through design. Uh, it was more through, the kind of real world issues. We launched a Arctic Parker in the height of the British summer. Um, and again, we were supposed to launch in the December time of the, you know, six months previously, but there was, we were, you know, new to the scene and, and would, uh, learn very quickly that what the factories could promise and deliver a very different. So we had an Arctic Parker, we had, uh, the hybrid jacket, which is still, um, a part of our product range today. and a Zodiac jacket as well. So three products and then some merchandise, t-shirts, caps, hoodies, that kind of stuff. And what, you know, look, we were off to the races and we were doing everything. It's not too dissimilar to any startup story, but you know, you're just, you're spinning plates. But the one thing that we kind of took from military service and business was, you know, what, what we don't know, we can find out and, uh, and lean into other people and other experts. You know, we could plan things, we would just take that whiteboard kind of thought process, write everything down, plan everything, be very meticulous and follow through, do what we say we're going to do, help each other, support each other. And you just start very slowly don't you and with an idea and we to be I think looking back now we we've actually stayed pretty true to kind of what we wanted to deliver in terms of brand and marketing and I think our USP being special forces myself and Louie designing developing and testing the kit and equipment ourselves is a. is a big USP. And I think that's why we gathered so much momentum and traction across social media platforms. And we've had a lot of help and support through friends, uh, as well, such as Jason Fox, you know, and all the Olly Ollerton, these kinds of people that had large followings on social media through the TV program S.A.S. Who Dares Wins. Uh, and people sort of really got behind it and liked that we were being different. They liked that we were kind of front and center and being quite transparent about what we were trying to be and who we were. you know, there was, I think most brands nowadays, they, they struggle to kind of find identity. They try, you know, and they, they're always changing and swapping and it's, it's difficult for them. That's the one thing that's always been our strength. It's that credibility and it's the authenticity that me and Louie bring, hopefully. |
| Jason Heaton | How do you manage growth? Because I think I've, I've worked for companies and I've witnessed companies in various industries that, um, they start small, they have sort of this, um, scrappiness to them, a certain charm of, of small companies and, and the, the, the brand founders are very heavily involved. And then as they get investment money and they start to grow and they start to branch out into different markets and trying to just make more and more money and please more and more people, it tends to get watered down. How, I mean, do you see that as a, as a pitfall or a danger? I'm sure you do. And how do you, how do you manage that? |
| Anthony Staziker | Um, well, it's got, there's quite a bit to, to, to unpick there. Um, Look, we've always been a founder led business, you know, and I think me and Louie are so intrinsically linked to the business and the brand that that will never change. You know, we always front and center. Yes, day to day, our jobs and our roles might change, but we are still front and center. We are heavily involved day to day in the business and the running and quite naturally, you know, we kind of found our own swim lanes. Although me and Louie kind of oversee everything within the business, Louie was definitely more organized and process driven and very good at the kind of the process of product than myself. I've always been more kind of around centered around brand and marketing and, and social media, which, which we compliment each other very well on that, on that side. But look, as the business grows and develops, it's they're growing pains, you know, and I, but I see them all as positive change and probably to use a bit of an analogy, it's It's like, uh, riding a bit of a surf, you know, at the beginning, you know, the wave is very small and it's just myself and Louie there. And then there's a couple of other people that join on the wave and it's still quite small and, and manageable and it's great. And, and then the wave gets a little bigger, you know, as the company grows and more money is coming in and there's more people to sort of manage. And, uh, and then you get experts into, into different areas, which adds value, but then becomes more difficult to try and remove yourself from that and let the experts be the experts and put the faith and the trust in the people that you employ. But it is difficult and we've had to, you know, manage and kind of learn on the job as well. But I think, where are we right now? The wave is definitely bigger and growing, you know, we're kind of up to 40 staff. We have a lot of outside agency support as well. So it's now turning into a serious business, you know, and it's got a lot of investment And we have very big, bold plans to grow this business, you know, and be a globally recognized business and brand, you know, but staying true to the mission and who we are and our, and our values and our ethos, you know, that I'd like to think that, you know, that has always ran through the company. And, and it's difficult because some people are more adaptable to change than others. And I think it's worth just saying, you know, we have a vision and a goal, myself and Louie in terms of where we want to take the business and You know, for the most part, people get that and they want to be along for the ride. But at certain times people fall off the wave naturally. And that might be through an unwillingness to want to ride a wave that's big. And sometimes it's skillset. Some people just can't ride that wave. And that's unfortunate because the kind of romantic in me wants to say, yes, wouldn't it be great if everybody was here that started at the beginning. But the reality is that's not going to happen, you know, and there's difficult conversations that need to be had. And, um, You learn a lot about yourself and about, you know, business and the transitions and everything else, but it's been such a wild ride. And to your point earlier, Jason, it, we're still so young in this kind of business world, which excites me because myself and Louis see so much exciting promise. You know, we're still just scratching the surface. You know, there's so much more that we want to do and that we are doing even in the next six months. You know, there's certain things I can't mention right now, but we've got some super, super exciting things. lined up with partnerships and collaborations. And, and when you first start, it's, it's, it's difficult because nobody really wants to know you. Nobody really helps you. And then the bigger you get, you know, that kind of snowball effect, the more doors open, the more access you get to better factories, fabric, you know, all this kind of stuff grows and then you can add more value and you can become bigger and better. And, and, you know, but it's hard, isn't it? It's bigger and better. better. Who knows, you know, this is our own journey and it's something that we're kind of navigating. And I just look at it from my own perspective personally. And you know, what do I want to achieve personally and professionally and, and, and, and hopefully that aligns as well. And with Louie's outlook as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And, and I'm glad you, you talked about kind of growth because I do find that some companies, you know, they, they grow just for the sake of it, just for piling in more money, building the bank accounts, make, you know, just being, being huge. And I think uh, with, with a lot of companies, there's a certain size that sort of is the right fit and growing any bigger, they, they kind of become watered down and, and obviously you don't want to get smaller, but I think to kind of manage that, I guess, is, is your job. That's the, that's the difficult part of, of founding a company and running a company. Um, but I've seen you also like spin off into categories that surprised me and, and pleased me actually. Um, you know, obviously with, with your background, people might expect you to just do break tactical stuff for the mountains and whatever. But like I've seen, you've launched a, you've got a cycling line, which is very interesting. I don't remember if I caught wind that you're going to be doing some dive adjacent or diving related stuff, which is very interesting to me. Trail running I've seen. So like you're starting to kind of branch out, but, but doing it in a way that feels organic to the company, I guess. Is that fair to say? Yeah. |
| Anthony Staziker | Yeah. It's a good point. It is, it is fair to say, and there's a, there's a very good saying about only being able to fit so many bits of fruit in your basket and I'm terrible at this, Jason. I come in, you know, we've got a fantastic product team here and I'm always coming, look, can we do this? And can we throw this in? And what about this? But actually what's happened now is we've sort of been definitely being more professionalized with people that have joined the business and new CEO Chris Reynolds has given us clear direction and strategy because at the beginning it's a bit wild. You're just scattergun. You're trying to do so much, you know, and, and, and, and keep pushing and growing and cause it's exciting. actually you need direction because otherwise, uh, and you know, in strategy, it's like a military operation. You don't just, you know, run around, you know, uh, gung ho and just try and hope for the best. A little bit of that you have to do at the beginning. Um, but as we grow and, and we've had those conversations, you know, with myself and Louie, those kinds of serious conversations of where do we want to be in three years? What does the five year plan look like? And, you know, rewind six years. I couldn't see past, you know, the next day, you know, I was always just day to day, then week to week and sometimes month to month, but you know, you just can't see past your nose because you're in the thick of it and you're spinning plates. So now with that comes strategy and planning and professionalization across all, all processes and people within the business. It's exciting. So yeah, there's, there's so much to do and so much more things that we want to do. But I think what have we always tried to do? We've always tried to stay authentic and credible. I keep saying these words because it's true, you know, and a big part of the military and special forces was fitness. So if we look at, let me rewind slightly back, where, where are we sort of heading now in ThruDog? I think we're trying to now categorize sort of three main pillars across the brand and it's outdoor, utility and active. You know, outdoor speaks for itself. It's kind of where we've cut our teeth from the very beginning. We moved, you know, we wanted to do everything to begin with wetsuits and on the water clothing and tactical gear and urban gear and you know, fitness stuff, and you're just trying to do, you know, and you're a little bit rubbish at a lot of things, aren't you? But now we've got the outdoor kind of pillar sort of set, you know, that is super, everything from super technical, outdoor, technical, top of mountain clothing from a bespoke summit suit for climbing, you know, the highest peaks in the world, all the way down to sort of down clothing and technical three layer clothing, trousers and bits and pieces. Then if we switch across into utility, what we're finding is you know, this everyday operator, uh, kind of look and feel, what am I wearing when I'm not up the mountain? You know, what do I want to look, you know, look like, what do I want my clothing to perform like? And, and, and so we're moving into this territory now with an exciting new range. It's going to drop, uh, around September time with Heritage and then next year into sort of February, March time with this kind of everyday operator, urban utility wear, and then active as well, because, you know, the active part of it is real. You know, we've always had a vested interest in keeping, keeping ourselves physically uh, robust and fit, you know, and mentally fit as well. Something which I started when I finished the, um, special forces was Brazilian jujitsu. It's something that I always wanted to do, but I didn't do it in the military. And it's hard when you leave Jason, you know, the military, because you attacked so much of your identity to what you used to do and be I'm stars, I'm special forces. And you kind of lose that kind of, yeah. that direction. And I used to train with the guys all the time in the gym and I was training for a purpose. I was training to be fit, you know, just to do the job. And I didn't, I didn't have that pressure anymore. I didn't have to stay physically fit for being, you know, for being operationally effective. So, but I've always kind of pushed myself. I've always wanted to do physical challenges, you know, London marathons and all these kinds of weird and wonderful challenges, but jujitsu was really good for me. This sort of side of it and the gym again is authentic and cycling is these 12 things that we like to do and running and trail running. So it was, well, if we're doing these things, let's make clothing that we want to wear and it has the, you know, the through dark badge on it. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. We're getting, getting long on the time here and I want to respect your time here today. But, um, just before we kind of move on or kind of wrap things up, any, you know, favorite pieces that, that you'd like to mention? I mean, I, I feel like I've, I've gotten a good feel for, for your clothing. And I think a lot of it for me comes down to a very spare sort of minimalist silhouette combined with some pretty high tech fabrics you're using. I think you're using some graphene and Kevlar and things like this, right? I mean, it's yeah. Yeah. Talk to me about, you know, some of your favorites or pieces that you'd like to mention. Maybe I have, I'm currently wearing the charge shorts. I'd love the giant pockets, the force tights. I've got the Velez jacket was fantastic. I love that soft shell jacket. It's great piece. |
| Anthony Staziker | Yes, well, it's funny you say that you was going to sort of ask for one of my kind of hero products and, you know, I'd pick them all because we spent so much time designing and developing and testing every one of our garments that so much love and attention to detail goes into everything and It's a good point around the fabrics as well, because, you know, we choose and utilize only the best fabrics in the world, you know, Polartec and you mentioned Dyneema and Graphene and all these kind of high tech quality fabrics as the base really. And then we sort of designed and build around that. The Velez, I would say is definitely one of my sort of firm favorites. Again, it's Graphene. It's quite a low silhouette. It was designed really to be kind of a mid-layer jacket. You can wear this out on the mountain. And I wore it climbing. I wear it day to day. I wore it in today to the office. It's just a really nice sort of silhouette piece, but also technically and functionally is, is very, very good. You know, we've had British mountain guides wearing the Veles and giving nothing but sort of five star rave reviews about that. Um, if I had to pick a kind of hero, hero one, um, I really love the Parker, you know, just in terms of, we really threw the kitchen sink into that thing. And it's been tested in the extremes and the Arctic tundras and It's a real flagship for us. It's kind of our F1 car, you know, it's got everything on there. And I guess the, the bespoke summit suit as well, just again, because of what we managed to do there, this, all of our clothing is designed by us for us. So there's nothing that's off the shelf. So we've sat down and designed everything from the ground up and all the details, et cetera. And, you know, I climbed personally myself. We don't just stand by the, you know, stand by the kit, we stand in it. And, you know, I was in Nepal a couple of years ago, climbing Ahmed Ablam and you know, that summit suit now is in our store down in Poole. So yeah, everything, I kind of love everything, Jason, as well. But if I had to pick a couple, I'd go for the Veles jacket. And for the trousers, I love the, the charge trousers. They're kind of an end of the world, very similar, obviously, to the charge shorts that you're wearing. But, you know, again, I've worn them technically climbing, but also I've worn them, you know, urban in the city as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it's all good stuff. And, um, definitely I would say on the higher price side of things, I think that puts you in a certain category with with a few other brands out there that, um, and it sets you guys apart. And I think some people, especially in the space that we, uh, occupy, uh, with the podcast, we do a lot of coverage of the luxury watch space. And, and I think people that are used to spending a little bit more and getting a high quality wristwatch or a pair of, uh, hiking boots or a pack or something will not flinch at paying a little bit more. And I think one thing I've noticed is with the through dark stuff, it's, it feels worth it. what it costs, I guess is the best way to put it. And I think it will last a good long time. I think that's also important. |
| Anthony Staziker | I think that's where our kind of sustainability piece lies in clothing that lasts, you know, that's durable. And to the point which we touched on briefly earlier was around the fabrics that we use. You know, we don't scrimp at all, you know, or try and cut any corners. And then it's manufactured in some of the world's leading factories as well. So I think some people would be shocked at just how much you know, things cost to make once, you know, given the fabric that we use and all the techniques that they use within the factories, then to ship it around the world, then market it, to shoot it, to put it on a website, to pay people to employ. There's so many costs within a business, you know, that you have to cover and our margins, you know, they're nowhere near where they should be in terms of wholesale, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, it's a, we, we feel it's a fair and an honest price for a high quality product across the whole range. |
| Jason Heaton | Good. And, and I shouldn't let you go without mentioning, um, speaking of price, you guys have a bit of a sale coming up here. I learned that most of the stuff on the site will be about 20% off, uh, starting, uh, this, this episode runs on Thursday, the 25th. So starting tomorrow on Friday, the 26th. So. |
| Anthony Staziker | Yeah. Exciting. These things don't happen that often. So it's our oblivion sale. It's 20% off almost everything, but it's a huge sort of site-wide sale. So. For people that have been eyeing up particular products, a great opportunity to jump on. It ends at 4 p.m. BST, 31st of July. So yeah, jump on and get some shopping done. Grab yourself a bargain. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Well, Stas, I really appreciate your time. This was a really fun chat and all the best. Can't wait to see where ThruDark goes from here. |
| Anthony Staziker | Jason, thank you, mate. I really appreciate it. |
| James Stacey | Okay, there we have it. Thanks so much to Anthony Stasz Staszek for coming on the show. What an interesting chat. I really love these very rare opportunities we have to sit down with someone who leads not a watch company, but like it's the same but different if you know what I mean. Like we've done a few of these over the years. We've had on everybody from like a Robert Spangle with, you know, the Observer Collection to Abe from Outlier. You know, we've done a bunch, but it is something that like I always find these chats to be really interesting. because there's so little that I know about the world of retail clothing. I think it's easy to learn about the stuff at the very top or maybe the stuff at the very bottom, but these companies that are trying to blend a premium product with kind of a specific audience and still kind of cut through the noise of buying anything on the internet, I think it's kind of a fascinating challenge and a really cool brand. I would love to check out some of the clothes at some point. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, we, we did that interview a couple of years ago with one of the co-founders of Volobok as well. And I kind of put through dark in that same category. They're definitely not a low priced option, but I think, you know, once you kind of run your fingers over stuff and wear it for a little bit, you realize like, okay, this, this feels pretty worth it. And I'm probably going to have this for the next decade or two. So kind of fits in that category. And, and as I mentioned in my chat with Stas, Uh, through dark does have a sale running now. I believe they're calling it their oblivion sale and almost everything on the site is 20% off starting tomorrow. So Friday the 26th. So if you're, if you're keen on checking out some of their stuff, but don't maybe want to pay the high price tag that, you know, for something you're not familiar with, uh, might be a good opportunity to get your hands on something. So check it out. All right. How about a little bit of final notes? Yeah, sure. Um, I've got one that I think will appeal to you if you haven't already seen it, actually. |
| James Stacey | This one did come to me, so I was lucky enough to watch it, but it was also on my list for this week. So kick it off. I think people will really dig this. I was enthralled, I guess is the word. It's so good. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Actually, I learned of this. I follow Eric Koo, the vintage watch dealer on Instagram, and he had posted an Instagram story about this documentary that pops up on YouTube, and it's called Behind the Scenes, The Story of Cult Films Lost in Translation. Such a great movie, Scarlett Johansson and Bill Murray in Japan. You know, I could relate to this movie on so many different levels. Even when I first saw it years ago, um, that sort of sense of foreignness and sort of disembodied disorientation that you get when you're jet lagged in a new city, especially in a place like Japan. And you know, this was a film that Sophia Coppola made when she was quite young. She was still in her twenties and Scarlett Johansson, I guess was only 17 when this movie came out. So you know, there was a lot of youth going on here, but then also it was sort of a reboot for, for Bill Murray, you know, kind of a transition in his career and the way that they filmed the movie, the settings, kind of the philosophy behind the way they did it. Um, it's, it's all in this slightly less than one hour documentary about the making of Lost in Translation. And yeah, like you, I was just captivated by this. I really enjoyed watching this. This documentary came out, gosh, I think it said, you know, the mid 2000 teens. So it's, it's a bit old, but it stands up well and it was really well-made really, really good. It makes me want to go back and, and rewatch lost in translation now. |
| James Stacey | Oh yeah. Those are my, there was the exact effect that this had on me. Uh, I echo absolutely everything you said, so we don't have to belabor it, but it's absolutely a worth watching if you're a fan and a definitely a final note that I had on my list for this week as well. So good poll. Yeah. Cool. All right. What do you have? I've got two, but they're two quick ones. First one is I've been kind of slowly digging into like the YouTube world of EDC. That's everyday carry for folks who aren't necessarily in that world. It's one that I kind of have bounced in and out of. I was pretty deep into it via Reddit for a long time, and then I kind of got like fatigued with the constant like, buy another $20 gadget, buy another $20 gadget. And despite that, I do find the product, especially like the design aspect of the product, like learning about the different ways that somebody might go about both their personal consideration of what they bring with them and carry with them, but also like brands and how one brand might have a different perspective on how to design something that you might think is largely the same. That could be the easy one is like maybe pocket knives or even watches, like it's a simple concept. You put it on your wrist, it tells time. It's something you carry around your pocket so you can open up Amazon boxes or whatever. But the overall outcome, of course, is that there's like millions of different flavors within something as simple as a knife or a watch at a conceptual level. I recently found this guy, Josh Fenn. And, you know, I'm always on the hunt for people that feel like they operate in the same wavelength as TGN, where it's not necessarily about what something costs, but rather what you get for your money. And sort of a focus on sometimes an inexpensive product can be the right solution, but other times it's worth spending more. Anyways, Josh has a pretty solid YouTube channel. I don't know Josh. I would love to have him on the show at some point. He's produced over 440 videos, only has 88,000 subscribers, which doesn't feel right. I also just, you know, Jason and I kind of subtly harp on this with a lot of our video and content recommendations. He has a subtle personality, so he's not shouting. He's not like, it's not this big, boisterous thing. He's largely just presenting kind of nicely about things that he's either tried and didn't like or tried and enjoyed or things that have worked for him. And it includes everything from like home office to sort of desk tours to Amazon EDC to more premium stuff. And I just really liked the channel and sort of the way that he goes about it. Uh, so that's a Josh Fenn's YouTube channel and the link will be in the show notes for that. |
| Jason Heaton | That's pretty cool. I mean, you know, EDC I think, um, is something that is obviously near and dear to us and to our audience in many ways, but it's also kind of come under a bit of ridicule and criticism over the past few years because of, you know, kind of this cliche that it's sort of a bro-y thing, you know, like you're, do you really carry all this stuff with you? There's like this excellent, like bit of a spoof on Instagram. I love that. You know, it ends with these guys like he's, you know, he's, he's got a, you know, a UAV and he's got, you know, whatever. |
| James Stacey | And they're kind of one upping reconnaissance EDC. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I love it. I love it. But, um, you know, in reality, like I think like real world EDC talk is still really valuable. And I would love to, like you said, have this guy on the show, um, sometime or just, you know, maybe talk a little bit more about realistic EDC and the kinds of stuff that we actually use at home on our desks or in the car, like EDC kind of, changes depending on your environment or where you're going. You're not always going to be carrying, you know, pocket knives and, you know, you know, paracord to repel off a side of a mountain or something like that with you, but you, it kind of changes depending on what you're doing. So yeah, this is, this is good. I'm going to check out his channel. I'm sure you can go pretty deep since he's got over 400 videos. That's really cool. |
| James Stacey | And then the, the skit that you were referencing from Instagram is from a comedian named Andrew Russo. And it's just this, he's having the conversation with himself, but he's playing two characters and it's two guys that are, comparing their EDC and they just keep escalating it. And so it goes from having a couple things and then when they get to the end, they actually ask what's in each other's pockets. |
| Unknown | You know, I just keep the basics on me. Yeah. I mean, phone, wallet, keys. That's like my everyday carry. Yeah. I mean, you know, sometimes a multi-tool. If I'm feeling like it, you know, I'll throw in a flashlight in there. Sometimes you got to be able to see, but for me, if I'm just popping outside, it's like tourniquet, pocket knife, glass breaker. Okay. You know, so, you know, I like to keep a field notebook and a tactical pen on me. so that I can jot down ideas on how to optimize my EDC. You know, I mean, it's an EDC for an EDC. You don't? I do. But for me, you know, I'm more of an 18 feet of good rope on my carry at all times type of guy. That's my speed. 18 feet every day. Whenever I need to rappel. You too? Yeah. No, I do. But I also EDC a Glock. Every day with the Glock. Yeah. It's so funny. |
| James Stacey | Like, it's genuinely hilarious, all included in the show notes. He's worth a follow. But the EDC thing is extreme. And you go on Reddit and you see guys that are carrying a backpack's worth of stuff, apparently, on their belt and in their pockets, and that's not me. I don't call myself a minimalist by any extent, but I don't need that much. I'm even at the point where I would say that because of the giant mouse pry bar I referenced last week, because of that, I now leave my Leatherman just in the Jeep. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, sure. |
| James Stacey | As long as it's in one place and I know where it is. Yeah. So there's all that kind of concept. But yeah, the EDC thing is it can be very silly, can be taken way too seriously, But I do think, like you said, there's there's little like tidbits that are quite useful for people who love to climb, love to dive, love to go on road trips, love to just get out into the world and occasionally encounter problems where this stuff could be handy. It doesn't always have to be reconnaissance aerial EDC or that sort of thing. And then look, I have one more. It's a simple shout out because I know Jason wouldn't have shouted it out as part of this whole strategy shift at Hodinkee. I have been working with several people who formerly wrote for the site, uh, to bring back the occasional piece of like great freelance content. And I'm super happy to announce that. I mean, we, it won't even be live, uh, until after we're done recording this episode, but, uh, we've got a great story from Jason back on Houdinki and it's, it's a high point of my year for Houdinki so far as to see your name back on the site, man. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it's, uh, it was fun to get that request and, and to kind of work with you on this and, uh, you know, kind of struggled to come up with a good kind of topic for my opening. kind of return to the site, but it is, it's good to be back. I mean, Hodinkee was arguably where I really got my start in, in watch writing and it is, it's good to be back and kind of revisit a topic that's near and dear and that is dive watches. So yeah, I hope people enjoy it. |
| James Stacey | Totally. Yeah. The important lessons I've learned while diving with over 200 dive watches, I'm assuming that's not a, not all at the same time, but rather over the course of your diving career. I really enjoyed this. I'm just genuinely thrilled to see you back on the site and to be working with you on these sorts of things. I like that it's an alternative that kind of complements your substack. So there won't be any sort of cannibalization there, which is great. And just a lot of dive watch topics and that sort of thing. So look forward to more. I certainly look forward to more of that coming up, but this first one's a great one. And I suggest that if anybody Hasn't been on Riki in the last few days. By the time this comes out on Thursday, the story will still be there. So be sure to check it out. |
| Jason Heaton | Awesome. Well, thanks for the plug. That's great. |
| James Stacey | Enjoyed being back. Of course, man. Thanks for the story. And hey, to everybody who's listening, thank you so much for that as well. If you would like to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly. Maybe even grab yourself a new TGN sign NATO or access to the ever popular Slack. Please visit TheGreyNATO.com. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from Marcus Aurelius who said, nowhere can man find a quieter or more untroubled retreat than in his own soul. |