The Grey NATO – 293 – Windup Chicago 2024 With The Worn & Wound Podcast
Published on Thu, 18 Jul 2024 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
This episode is a recording of The Grayando podcast discussing their experience at the Windup Chicago watch show. James and Jason go through the various events they attended, including a dive with the Citizen watch company, a museum visit with a WWII German U-boat exhibit, and a Grayando meetup with the show attendees. They discuss the community aspect of the show, new watch innovations happening in the industry, and share some gift recommendations. Overall, it captures the fun and camaraderie of the Grayando community coming together for this annual event.
No potentially copyrighted lyrics or book excerpts are reproduced, but they do play a short audio clip of the folk singer Tom Chapin performing a song about sharks during their dive outing. The clip is described as being recorded in poor quality from Jason's phone during the event itself.
Links
Transcript
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| James Stacey | Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches this episode 293. And it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening and would like to become a supporter of the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is James Stacy, and I'm joined as ever by my buddy and co host Jason Heaton. Jason, how are you doing? Is the sort of heady buzz of Windup Chicago starting to fade? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, a little bit, but I'm still riding high. I'm still in a really good mood. It was a great weekend. You know, we're recording this on Tuesday and yesterday, you know, I told you that I was just kind of zapped. I think, you know, we introverts, we need a little bit of downtime after a social weekend. And so I kind of took it easy yesterday. But yeah, it was such a Such a rewarding and fun weekend. And I always forget how great that windup weekend is despite the kind of frenzied pace it can be. Um, yeah, it was great. |
| James Stacey | How are you feeling? Good. Tired. Uh, definitely felt the, uh, like, yeah, like a bit of the, the introvert flu yesterday. Uh, just, just kind of kept, kept to myself and, you know, didn't, you know, just tried to catch up on some work and some other stuff, but the weekend itself was absolutely amazing. Obviously we had, we had a great time. There's a lot of thank yous and other stuff we've got to do. So with these windup episodes, the main topic, if this is your first windup episode, this will be the third year where we've essentially shared a podcast with the team at worn and wound. So we record for, I think it was like an hour and 10 hour, 12 minutes, something like that. And then they take the first half of it, which is when we talk a lot about the show and some of the watches we liked and some industry trends and that sort of thing. And then we have the back half, which is a little bit about, uh, TGNs kind of hang out and event with citizen and also, uh, a Q and a session. That was a lot of fun. So today you'll hear the second half of that. So if you're listening to this, uh, when you get to the main. Topic, or, or if you want pause this, go to warn and wound and download their episode. It comes out the day before this one. So it should be waiting in their feed. And that'll be the first half of our chat. We'll have the second half with the, with the Q and a, in just a few minutes. But I guess we can probably just kick it off with a bit of a recap of the show. We both got in Friday. I went to a Houdinki insurance sort of hangout and saw a handful of, you know, good old orange cap bros there. It was a good time. And then from there went and caught up with you for some sushi, which this is also our third year of doing like our annual sushi dinner. It's at a spot called Tanoshi, which has never let us down. So we haven't bothered looking for anywhere else. pretty solid omakase. And I have to say I enjoyed they didn't have uni this year, which is a personal favorite. But they had a couple of incredible bites of tuna belly of Toro, which is also a really high on my list of favorite foods. It was a good meal. |
| Jason Heaton | It really was. Yeah. And I you know, we finished it with a really nice Nika yoichi whiskey, Japanese whiskey. Oh my goodness. Look, I mean, if that's the best whiskey I've had in a while. It was amazing. I need to find that you know, and I you know, I've been I was By and large on the wagon, uh, most of the year up until very recently, I've been until you hung out with change, the corrupting influence, uh, it was worth it. It was definitely worth it. So, um, yeah, that was fun. And I have to say, you know, we, we both flew in, you you've flown the previous years I've driven the first two years of wind up and this year I flew and I'll tell you what, it made all the difference to me because driving in that Chicago traffic in the heat, um, you know, in the Land Rover was, uh, it was going to be the death of me. And I thought, you know, I've got to find a different solution. So I flew into Midway airport, which is Chicago's smaller one. That's closer to where we were going to be kind of basing ourselves all weekend. And it just lent, lent a really relaxing kind of vibe for me. I was enjoying kind of getting around via Uber and walking and, and that sort of stuff. And yeah, it was great to, to catch up at sushi. It just, it's become such an annual tradition of ours. And I, Man, if we could get to Chicago more often, I'd just go there. Like I'd make it a weekly thing. Although it'd be a bit expensive. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. We might have to not do the Omokaze if we're going to go to weekly. Annually it works out okay. Yeah. Yeah. But it was great. And so that was the Friday night. Super nice to see you. And it's also nice because you and I are on similar wavelengths. We're like, not every night has to be a late night. Yeah. And it's ideal if they're not. So like we finished dinner. It wasn't even that late yet. Yeah. And we just went to bed. Uh, which works out just fine for me. Uh, I, I started the next day pretty late as well. Had a chance to get a little bit of sleep in, which is a really nice way to start a Saturday, but I caught up with a handful of the slack crew. Uh, most of the crew that went diving with you later in Saturday started the day, uh, with me, they went out for breakfast and then I caught up with them at the Griffith museum of industry and science. I might have that slightly wrong. Um, museum of science and industry or whatever. And then now there's a Griffith's name to it as well. This place had an incredible bond exhibit, like genuinely awesome. Um, all about the science of bond and it included, you know, they had cars, they had props, they had, it was, it was amazing, genuine high quality museum coverage of the entire bond lineage, which was great. Did you get a chance to unroll that, that, uh, I did. |
| Jason Heaton | I've already hung it up. Is it anything cool? It's on my closet door. Yeah, it's really cool. It's like a, it's like a periodic table with, uh, with the different movie names and some tidbits. So it's, yeah, it's really fun. It's really cool. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. So did that, uh, saw a ton of stuff. I mean, they had like the rolled DBS, uh, from, uh, Casino Royale. They had, they had a ton of stuff. It was awesome. Super fun. The guys had a blast. And then from there we went on in, you know, kind of in its own basement of this very incredible museum is the U505, which is a, you know, U-boat that was captured. Uh, by the American Navy and then brought to Chicago because the, the kind of lead officer who captured the boat was from Chicago and it's become this a national historic site in the States. The whole thing is in its own giant room buried underground. It's the coolest, one of the coolest museum exhibits I've ever been to. It's this one room is basically just dedicated huge room. It looks like a sub pen from the Soviet era. Very cool. And very brutalist kind of wrapping around this 255 some odd foot submarine. And you can do a whole lap of all the exhibits around the outside, explaining the boat and its design and the story of how it was captured and the rest of this. We did a tour, uh, with a fantastic docent through the boat and it was awesome. And, and, you know, it's, it's the same tour that they talk about at some length in shadow divers and having to essentially book back-to-backs cause they're only allowed so much time in the boat. And it wasn't enough time to like, you know, Chatterton and Kohler were looking to essentially memorize the layout of the boat and all the little details. Uh, so it, it was a, uh, a big deal to be able to go and do this and to do it with like so many of the crew, including Chris soul. And it was just a really, really, really fun thing to do and a great way to kick off the day. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, that just seems like kind of a really proper sort of TGN, a couple of hours that you spent with, with some guys and, uh, you know, doing a bond thing and then doing the U five Oh five with it's tied to shadow divers. It's, uh, that's really cool. I haven't seen the bond exhibit. I wish I kind of wish I could have, uh, Seen that I've done the U 505 and it's, uh, they have an Enigma machine there. And, um, sure do, you know, just, I, the only thing is your, your, your time inside the sub is limited, but the, you know, regardless, it is, it's just fascinating. I think just that the sheer, um, surprise of like walking into like a room under a museum and seeing this massive. Boat and I wasn't ready for it. Yeah. I wasn't either. I remember it's like, it's huge with more and more things. |
| James Stacey | As I get older, I don't do any of the preview. Hmm. I didn't go to, I didn't go to the museum's website to see what the boat looked like. So it was all, I mean, like we went through a whole section of like old Americana and like farming. And then they had these, uh, mold-a-ramas, which are these like, you know, kind of mid-century style injection molding machines that make a little trinket for you. So they had ones that make like a building, like the, you know, a building from Chicago or this or that. And we found one for the U505. So you've got 12 fully grown children. uh, you know, each waiting, paying $5, waiting for this machine to make them a little submarine. I have it on my desk. It's very cool. And, uh, and yeah, it was just a blast. And then getting to go on the boat was, was so special and to walk that last corner and then see this room, which you're not ready for. Yeah. Cause you've been underground and you're like, where do you even put a submarine underground? Yeah. And then afterwards you go through the whole exhibit afterwards. Like I was sad and just like stood and watched this little video of them moving the submarine. They dug a big hole. finished the space, lowered the sub in on like hydraulics and then covered it. And it's so cool, man. It was great. Highly recommended if you make it to Chicago. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. That even just the backstory of how they got it in there and, you know, brought it over, you know, on the lake and then up onto, onto ground. And it was sitting outside for years. I think I went there as a kid when it was still outside, if I'm remembering correctly. |
| James Stacey | And then, yeah, they said it was outside for like 40 years. |
| Jason Heaton | It didn't do well. Um, you know, and then they smartly moved it indoors, but yeah, I'm so glad you got to do that. That's, that's awesome. Me too. Yeah. And then we kind of swapped places. |
| James Stacey | Um, I was, I missed you cause I went to the show and you left for the dive with all these guys I was with. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I, I went to the show right when it opened at noon and I had my dive bag with me and, uh, dropped that off at the citizen booth, did a couple of laps of the show, you know, said my hellos to the people I hadn't seen since last year. And, um, and then, yeah, jumped in an Uber with a couple of folks from citizen and off to Hammond, Indiana to the Marina for the annual wind up in a lake dive outing, which, uh, Uh, you know, Chris soul was everywhere this year. You were with him at the museum. And then, uh, he was one of the, kind of the main, um, organizers of the wind up in a lake as he has done for the past few years, along with, uh, local, local diver extraordinaire, Chris Scott, who, um, kind of handles the diving end of things with, with the dive charter there. And, uh, it was a good group of guys. We had 12 people that were jumped in the water and did, uh, did a dive on that same rec we did last year. This is what they're calling the mystery rec because it hasn't been identified yet, but It's, you know, 45 feet deep. It's got a, you know, ship's wheel and a windlass and an anchor like sitting right there on the bottom. Visibility was good. Temperature was low fifties. Everybody just had a blast. And, um, uh, the weather cooperated. It was a hot day, but you know, once you're out on the lake with a bit of a breeze, it was absolutely perfect. And we came up from the dive and, you know, had, they brought some sandwiches, uh, Kelly, who, who works at, um, uh, fathead brewery in Ohio brought, uh, some beers, uh, for everybody to have, there was a cooler full of beer. That was really fun. And, uh, I think the special, the most special part of it was we had a legendary folk singer, Tom Chapin on the boat of a blue water, white death, death fame. I mean, this, this was, you know, I would say Saturday was peak TGN probably for both of us. Right. I mean, double Oh seven, the U five Oh five Tom Chapin diving. Citizen watches were handed out to everybody that got in the water. Tom put on slightly less than an hour's worth of some of his tunes and some other singers' tunes. He played the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald on the banjo and he did, to my great enjoyment, the song that he sings over the closing credits of Blue Water, White Death, The Shiver of a Shark. I recorded it, you know, apologies for the poor audio quality. I was using my phone and kind of on a, on a boat. So you hear some clinking of tanks and maybe people clapping or laughing along, but we'll, we can play a little snippet here. You can kind of get a sense of what the vibe was. |
| Tom Chapin (audio clip) | A lawyer in the future, he'll gobble one any fine day. But the lady's God bless her, he'll only bless her politely and go on his way. I can readily cite you an instance, when a lovely young lady from Breen Who was tender and sweet and delicious to eat Fell into the bay with a scream She struggled and flounced in the water And signaled in vain for her bark And she'd surely been drowned if she hadn't been found By the shiver-spanning shark |
| James Stacey | It's just absolutely stellar. I can't feel bad. I had an incredible day between all the stuff we've already talked about before, but I have to admit a little bit of FOMO and not being able to make it out to the boat this year and, uh, and hang out and do the, you know, do an impromptu, uh, you know, floating concert with Tom Chapin, but that's, that's about as cool as it gets. I'm super happy that it worked out for, uh, for you and everybody on the boat. |
| Jason Heaton | It was great. And then, you know, so he, he did this performance while we were eating and drinking, um, on a little cruise in the calmer waters right along the skyline of Chicago. And it was this lovely evening. Um, and then we motored back over to Indiana right around nine o'clock. So it was getting dark and I needed a lift back to the hotel in, in Chicago. And Tom had a rental car, Tom Chapin. So jumped in with him and it was just the two of us cruising back. Uh, I had put a Gordon Lightfoot on the, uh, the Bluetooth and the Jeep that he had rented. And, uh, and he was singing along and we were chatting, uh, he told me some fun stories and, uh, yeah, it was just an epic day. It was just tremendous. And that was just the first day. That's so cool. And then we had, we had a fun time Sunday too. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. So Sunday, as many of you know, and certainly a great number of you were there, we had, um, uh, brunch event with citizens. So we had some breakfast and some hangout time, a little bit of a presentation and then, uh, the crew, and then even, even more people after that had a chance to kind of tour the show. uh, just us for an hour. And yeah, that last part, like, don't get me wrong. The breakfast is nice to hang out with citizen. Always great to do that. But the fact that citizen and the folks from wind up were willing to sort out some changes to the schedule and, and some of the other stuff so that we could do a sort of no crowd take at the show, I think is like huge, at least for me, huge value. I think so. It's so much fun to have a minute to have just kind of us in there. Some of the brands were offering pretty substantial discounts for the hour. if you were in the shopping mood, that is, but the nice thing about the windup shows, it's not, there's definitely a lot of transactions going on. Yeah. Like it's, it's something that's possible there because it's a small vendor scenario, but so much of it is just about having these conversations, being able to catch up with Nick from ad patina, being able to catch up with chase from Okan, Oscar being able to catch up with Jonathan from brew with the folks from marathon to meet new people. Uh, and that sort of thing, obviously, uh, Mike, our good buddy, Mike Pearson, the guy that connected us. And I guess in some ways is like the godfather of TGN. Um, he, uh, he's there with Christopher Ward and I got a chance to finally put my hands on essentially any model they make. Yeah. Big shout out to that super compressor that you mentioned on the previous episode, super cool in person. And then that carbon Colchester, if you, if you enjoy sort of a field watch, but want something that is a whole other sort of thing. Yeah, please check it out. Really cool stuff. So yeah, we saw some great watches. So many great people. And I mean, look, the the slack crew to be too many people to list at this point. But we had such a good time with with so much of the crew. And it's just such a friendly environment. And then yeah, we had basically the entire afternoon at the show. So just hanging out with people saying hi, taking pictures. trying on watches, meeting with new brands that we hadn't talked to before, that sort of thing. I think we both, uh, got in, got ourselves into some trouble with a new watch, uh, which we can get to and risk check. Um, these things are all absolutely unavoidable, but, uh, outside of all of, um, all of the simple programming, any, any sort of moments stand out for you? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I got to give a shout out to one of our young listeners who's on Slack. Uh, I think he's probably airborne at the moment, Adam, uh, who made the journey. He's left Nebraska a few hours ago. Very long journey in a Cessna 172. And if you know what that plane is, it's basically like me driving a Land Rover from, from here to Chicago, except he, he did it for, I think he said it took 20 hours in the air, um, flying from, I believe he's the West coast, like Portland, Oregon, or that area, um, you know, over the Rockies, uh, over the flatlands and kind of the farmland of the Midwest and then into a small airport South of Chicago. And I mean, what, first of all, what an adventure. Um, and, and I, I feel so honored that he made the trip now, granted, it might've not just have been for TGN, but, um, you know, just amazing Adam. So if you're listening, uh, hats off to you, you've got our, our undying respect, uh, for that journey. |
| James Stacey | Amazing. So yeah, just, just pulled up Adam's tail number and he's currently out of, uh, Wyoming. I started in Nebraska has gone over Wyoming and is now just, uh, just East of salt Lake city. If this number is accurate, not, not quite over the Lake yet. Uh, but yeah, I hope his flight home is smooth. I know that it was quite a task to get out to Chicago and going back, he said he was going to have a headwind. So it was going to take even longer. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. He was fried understandably, but yeah, it was, it's always nice when you get to catch up with people. You know, I hadn't seen Adam since I think the last time I was in Vancouver, he came to the Roaldorf hangouts, um, which was super fun. Uh, but yeah, I just had an absolute blast. Um, I was able to fairly, I talked about this in the last show, but I was able to do everything in one backpack. Yeah. which is just the height of luxury. If you're, if you're me, I didn't bring a camera, just my phone, which ended up being fine, really genuinely fine for the, for my purposes. And yeah, the trip largely went well. Traveling home was a bit of a bummer. There was some, I mean, continues to be some pretty terrible weather, uh, in, in that part of part of the world. And, uh, my flight was supposed to leave at nine and left a little after 1 30 AM the next day. Uh, so I didn't get home until about, the better part of five o'clock. Um, so it was, uh, it was a long trip home, but totally worth it. Uh, can't really complain about them not wanting to fly in bad weather. Uh, you know, I, I prefer a prudent pilot whenever possible to all the TGN crew that showed up for us a huge thank you to citizen for supporting some of these ideas we had and, and really understanding how it is that we all like to do things. And I don't just mean Jason. I mean, all of the, the TGN folks, like everybody in the crew, Um, we have a certain wavelength and citizen gets that and it's, it's pretty rare. Yeah. And I think, uh, beyond that, a huge shout out to, uh, both Zach's for the podcast. We'll get, you'll, you'll be able to listen to the first half of that on their side and we'll get to our half in just a couple of minutes here. But the whole team at windup, Kyle, Nelly, uh, cat, uh, it's, it's just, it, it really is an incredible group of people that throw a really good event and do so with very minimal headaches in terms of what it's like to interface with them. And it's, it's really, you know, you guys listening know that we don't do a ton of events. This is largely the big one for the year. And that's very specific as to why that works out for us is, is they make it possible. It's something that Jason and I can handle from a logistics standpoint, citizen really helps. And, uh, and I think it, it, this year was a great one and I'm already looking forward to trying to top it next year. I mean, I, I don't think we can top the dive. This comes up in the podcast recording. I'm not sure that's possible because of the Tom Chapin element. Um, but we'll try, we'll do our best. And then of course, if you're, if you're listening and you're feeling maybe a little bit of FOMO for having missed this one, uh, the next time that we're all going to be, or that Jason and I will be together and doing some stuff publicly, that's going to be at the Toronto time piece show in late September. The link to that will be in the show notes, but we'll be doing some sort of a live podcast. I'm going to be doing some panelists. We'll probably try and throw together like a, a beer hangout evening. you know, brew event sort of thing. And, uh, and we'll go from there, but we're still working on some of the programming, but if you can make that weekend work and you want to come up to Toronto, please do the weather should be good. I'd expect it to be quite hot, but we'll find out. And, uh, I'm already pretty pumped to, to kind of see if we can capture some of how good windup is in, in an event on, on, you know, my side of the border. Yeah, no pressure. |
| Jason Heaton | No, it should be good. I mean, I think the first, the first year of any new show, um, will have its challenges, but I think, uh, they have a lot going for them in terms of brands that are coming and I think to kind of general vibe. And I think Jason, the organizer kind of gets what, what works. And so, uh, it shows promise. I think, I think it'll be great. I'm looking forward to that. And before we kind of move on, I, you know, you mentioned, uh, obviously big shout out to citizen for, for all of their help. And one particularly special moment of Sunday was as part of our kind of breakfast meetup and little presentation before we did the preview of the, of the show itself. A citizen did a drawing for a giveaway free watch, which was the 35th anniversary pro master diver, the Fujitsu bow or challenge diver with the elements of blue incorporated in this, in this lovely titanium watch. And I have to say it couldn't have gone to a more appreciative or better or happier person. Um, it happened to be one of our longtime listeners and favorite guys, uh, Chicago native, uh, Clark, uh, his daughter. 16 year old daughter. She had just turned 16, not long ago. Fantastic. She showed up at the event, um, wearing a moon swatch and really liked that. Uh, but the, the look on her face, uh, at winning that citizen was perfect. Priceless. It made me. It made, it restored my faith in, in watches and, and watch nerdery and the whole industry. Um, just, just seeing her how excited she was and she got the, it came on a NATO and she immediately wanted the bracelet sized. And so they had that done by, by David Lane, the watchmaker who was at the show. And you know, he took care of that, uh, sized it for her. And we saw her later and got a photo with her and she just seemed thrilled. So, um, such a fun again, hats off to citizen for, for doing that. And congratulations to, uh, to Clark's daughter on, on winning that. And it was, uh, it was a really fun moment. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, that's super fun. Clark's our connect for our absolute favorite beverage from the Chicago area. Our Malort man in Chicago, it's good to have. But Clark's just has always been so warm, so kind, so welcoming, and to be able to now have his daughter take home a watch that I think that whole room wanted. This is that new one with the kind of bright blue bezel accent and the kind of platinum coating for the titanium that gives it much more of a steel visible signature and then it weighs nothing. I mean, there's just really, really cool watch. Yeah. Um, that people were pretty jacked about. So I, I, yeah, like you said that that moment couldn't have been better. And, uh, uh, continued shout out both to Clark for, I mean, just for, for being Clark, but also for citizen, for ponying up not only a watch, but like an actually desirable watch. Sometimes you see the giveaways and it's like the thing that, that isn't moving on the shelf. Um, and that's certainly, certainly not the route that, uh, the citizen went this time. So a huge thank you to them for that. And I mean, what, uh, what, yeah, that was a great moment. Yeah. Cause we did it like, like genuine raffle style where they're just reading off a six digit or seven digit number and get down to the last digit and there's a big pause and then she holds her hand up. It was great. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Really, really fun. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Good time. |
| James Stacey | All right. You want to do a little bit of risk check before we get to the recording? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, we both got, uh, we both came home with new watches from the show. I came home with two actually. Um, one was, was, uh, was a citizen. Uh, they, Incredibly, they kindly handed out dive watches to all of us that, uh, that got in the drink on Saturday. Um, and they had, I believe four different, uh, dive watches that they were giving. And I was told that they sort of tailored them to kind of the personalities or needs or whatever you want to say of the different divers. Um, I came home with a Pepsi bezel blue. I guess it's kind of the modern version of an Aqua land of my old Aqua land that I actually took diving, uh, except it has an analog depth gauge. It's, it's of course, part of the pro master family. Um, just a really fun piece, big chunky thing, you know, as you'd expect from, from a depth gauge equipped, uh, citizen with eco drive. Very cool. I'm really fun. But then, um, today I'm, I'm actually wearing, uh, an Elliot Brown Holton automatic GMT. So Elliot Brown, this was their first year at, um, at windup. And, uh, apparently it was, it was a huge success for them. I'm really happy for them because it's a brand that I've liked for a long time and Sounds like they're, they might be showing up in Toronto too. So that, that could be really fun to see them there. Um, but yeah, in a nutshell, I mean, I, you know, I've had the Holton before I had a Holton quartz, uh, the Nevo, um, which I then passed on to a friend of mine who happens to be an arborist. Uh, and he puts it through its paces, uh, trimming trees down in Iowa. Um, so I was kind of missing having a Holton on the wrist cause I just love these watches. And in fact, watches of espionage just did a story today about how the Holton is used by Uh, the British special boat service. So you can check that out, but, uh, yeah, this is the new GMT. Um, it's very similar to their existing Holton, except of course it has a 24 hour, um, bezel. And then, um, for the GMT hand, they use the broad arrow, which I think is just kind of a stroke of genius. I mean, they they've, they're one of the few brands that can actually legitimately use a broad arrow on the dial as a kind of evidence of their NATO stock number and use, uh, by, you know, Britain's armed forces. Um, but to use it as the tip on the GMT hand, I think was really kind of clever. And, uh, yeah, it's a great watch too. Yeah. Yeah. Really cool. That's cool. I like it. And how about you? You have about exactly the opposite type of watch on your wrist, small and digital. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I mean, there, there was a few watches that I thought were a possibility, including the beach master, which I'm still very interested in the Elliot Brown, uh, with that really kind of ingenious use of a 24 hour hand and two scales. Yeah. And, uh, but I ended up swinging by the Autodromo booth and I've liked that group C, the digital, since it came out. And I went back and forth a little bit with Bradley, who runs the company. And I've known Bradley for years. We have a shared taste for cars that aren't exactly practical. And I picked one up. So I was really trying to decide between the steel with the yellow buttons, which I really love, which I guess it's called silver and yellow, or the yellow Cerakote, which is the coolest one, but has a negative LCD display. So it's a little bit harder to read. You kind of have to use the backlight in a lot of scenarios. And so I, um, I, I went with the coolest one. I went with the Sarah coat, even though it's not that legible compared to a positive, uh, display. And I just, I haven't taken it off yet. Uh, it's so much fun. I don't mind having to, you know, reach down and hit the, hit the backlight button. That's easy enough to do. I love the yellow. Um, it's just bright and super summary. And then just before we started recording, I started digging around in my watch box and cause it comes on this really pretty solid, nice, thin rubber strap that suits the watch pretty well. But I was like, well, what other options? It's a hooded lug, so there's not a lot of space. Um, but I was able to fit a gray perlon in there and it's a weird combo. So I'll put a photo of it at some point in the slack. Uh, but yeah, that's the, uh, that's, that's what I've got on now. It's that group C. I don't know, I feel like I'm in my Quartz era these days. Certainly no crisis, but I'm loving it. |
| Jason Heaton | I feel like Quartz is having a moment, which I was sorely tempted. You were trying to talk me into it. We had that celebratory whiskey at the end of the day and I was feeling a little loopy and I was ready to head over there and plunk down my card, but I resisted. |
| James Stacey | Well, it didn't help that they poured us each about a half a bottle. Unbelievable. Yeah, it was big, big pours. I don't think they wanted to take any of it home. Yeah. By the looks of it. But yeah, so I love that. You know, huge Adorama fan. I guess this is maybe my third or fourth, all of them have had some sort of a yellow accent. I had an original group B that I wore for a really long time. And I don't know, I think since these came out, they just like, they really hit that like five-year-old kind of vibe in me. I just, I love the, I love the backlight. I love the digital. I love that it doesn't look like a G-Shock or a Timex Ironman or something like that. So yeah, pretty pumped to have it on wrist and certainly just like kind of a fun thing to, um, to have as like a little memory of the show and another great year at windup. Yeah. Very cool. |
| Jason Heaton | Main topic time? I think so. Yeah. We jumped into the second half of our shared podcast with Worn and Wound. Uh, it was a really fun gathering. We had a full house or standing room only in the, in the room where we recorded. And, uh, you know, my favorite part, of course, as usual is that the Q and a, that was just fun. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | So this would be the tape, but keep in mind again, if the event that you just weren't paying attention at the top of the show, this is only half of it. The first half is being presented by Worn and Wound on their podcast. We've done this for the last couple of years. So be sure to hit the show notes. I'll have a direct link to that episode. You can give the first half a listen and then carry on here. We'll have a slight overlap, so you don't get too lost. And then after the recording, Jason and I'll be back to do final notes and to, you know, quote unquote, put a bow on it. So let's jump into this recording and a big shout out to both of the Zachs at Worn and Wound for being consummate sort of hosts for yet another fun sort of collaborative episode. |
| Jason Heaton | Great event. Yeah, I think the bar was set really high. yesterday. I think, you know, if this be, it has become an annual thing, uh, and we've been blessed with good weather all three years and some great diving. But, uh, yeah, Chris, good luck topping that one next year. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | The gauntlet has been thrown. Um, so I see a lot of TGN hats in here. We're kind of like overrun with, uh, with, with orange hats, which is a, which is a good thing. Uh, you guys have brought, um, your incredible community, uh, you know, here to, uh, Chicago and you had a, The TGN breakfast event this morning. James, tell us how that went. |
| James Stacey | It went really well. I mean, I had an absolute blast. In the last couple of years, we've started to do little activations with Citizen. And this year, we, you know, sorry, last year, we had an incredible, like, beer hangout at a beer garden nearby to watch, give away, like, a perfect event. It's only Friday and Saturday night for most people and those nights are busy and other brands do really cool stuff. And, uh, and we thought it would be kind of fun to flip it around a little bit this year and do something in the morning on Sunday. You know, people have had their, their evening fun and the rest of it, and then come out, you know, get people a little bit of food and a hot cup of coffee and a little bit of swag. And we got to see a cool presentation about the anniversary of the pro master, uh, line from the brand, uh, and, and some of the stuff that they're going to come out with, they have it here. There's a pretty cool Annie Digi watch that's going to be available later in September that I'm pretty pumped about. So we got to see a little bit of product, have some coffee, you know, everybody had 30, 40 minutes to chit chat and catch up and take some pictures and that kind of thing. It's, it's only possible when you have a really good partner, like, like we have in, in wind up and like we have with citizen and that sort of thing where you have these fun ideas where you go, well, would it be possible to do a brunch? Then we're not in anyone's way in the evenings. And it was sure. And then we asked you guys like, Hey, do you think we could let everybody just hang out at the show for an hour? without a crowd. And it turns out like you guys didn't even hesitate. You're like, yeah, sure. We can probably make that happen. And for me, I think I can't speak for everybody who attended. I hope you all enjoyed it. For me, that's something I just liked that you could do a lap of the show with full access to everybody. But I mean, let's face it, the crowds, crowds are heavy here. It was packed out yesterday. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah. I don't know if anyone in the crowd here was here yesterday, but yeah, Saturday afternoon, like the, like middle of the afternoon, it was packed. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. shoulder to shoulder. So it's nice. And a big thank you, uh, certainly from Jason and I, but for everybody who, who attended today that you guys let us set that up. I liked being able to offer a little bit like the experience of windup is walking from one booth to another, seeing watches, meeting the people behind the brand. That's the core of this. And to be able to like isolate that just for the TGN crew is it means a lot to us. It was fun. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah. I mean the community piece of this is really like what it's all about. I think, um, you know, I think what you've built, |
| Jason Heaton | with Wind Up is special as well. Zach, I was also at the British Watchmakers show a couple of months ago, and it had a similar vibe, I think. I think it's nice to see shows that kind of bring the level down to, like, just anybody can just come, wear what you want, bring who you want, just have fun, like, meet, greet, you know. It takes away from that kind of formality that we get from the events that we're all used to going to. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah, it's not like this everywhere. No. This is sort of like the antidote, I think. In a lot of ways to the typical traditional watch event. |
| James Stacey | I think like a lot of this just feels natural to people to the extent where they think that this is just the default. And it's just if this is the only watch show you go to, you're very spoiled. Yeah, it's just so much fun. I love Chicago. The Midwest vibe is very, you know, being Canadian, it aligns very nicely with my my way of thinking and feeling. And I just think the level of access is rad. The ability to come here and do hangouts and connect with people you would only hang out with online. otherwise is super fun, kind of adds a little bit of like the con element to it, which I think is pretty valuable, especially as the internet starts to feel like a pretty big impersonal place these days. I made a joke about algorithms and that sort of thing, but I think that, you know, I've said this on our show before, that if I try and predict where I think some of this media and experiences and stuff is going to move in the future, it'll be towards smaller and more focused, more niche sort of experiences. And I think you guys are like, you know, four or five years ahead of that curve with a nice small show where you can come for an afternoon and actually see everybody. You want to meet the CEO of Oris? |
| Unknown | He's here. |
| James Stacey | You want to meet a guy who started his own brand in his, you know, in a spare room in his house. Cause he liked modding Seiko. So they got that too. It's rad. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | Yeah, no, that was, you know, it's, it's really gratifying to hear that that all comes through. Cause that is, you know, it was really the goal of when we first started, you know, wind up in 2015, it was like, we just wanted to make a show we'd be comfortable at. And, um, You know, it's like something that's the motivation with, which was really just like not even really business driven. It was like, why, you know, why do we feel so uncomfortable at these big Swiss trade shows and everything? And, you know, it's just not us. It's not why we got into it. Um, and then obviously there was a great component for the brands that, um, you know, especially the smaller brands that aren't in retail, don't get to meet their customers as much. And yeah, I mean, it's just been a wonderful, like organic growth since then, and that it still keeps to what you're saying. with three shows that are all much larger than they used to be. It's really great to hear, and I'm sure the team will really appreciate that as well. But yeah, we're keeping tuning it and seeing where we can go and seeing kind of not how far we can push it, but in a sense like, what is the sort of, how much of an event can we make this to really bring it out, make it more of a globally recognized version of the community-focused watch trade show, essentially, |
| Jason Heaton | I think to quote or paraphrase Chief Brody from Jaws, I think next year you're going to need a bigger boat. |
| James Stacey | You might need a bigger boat. Or a boat on top of the boat, I'm not sure. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah. This venue is wonderful. It's a really nice space, but it does feel a little crowded at times. Yesterday. On the other hand, though, I think that's one of the special things about the Chicago show is it is a little bit smaller than San Francisco and New York. It feels a little more intimate. And I feel like sometimes you have more time to spend, um, talking to brands and talking to other, you know, attendees and enthusiasts. Um, but you know, that's what makes, you know, any show specials. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | If it feels more like a meetup, you know, when, uh, you know, when you have that, those types of interactions, I think, you know, obviously, you know, we, we thought of it from our perspective, but then seeing how people have, have what they've brought to it, what the crowd, the attendees have brought to it of like, You know, the meat of things started happening naturally with just small groups of friends that were like, I'm going to go. Do you want to come with me? And then you have five or six people flying from across the country. And that totally blew our minds when we first heard that. Now, obviously, on the scale of your community, having like an hour here alone, it's just awesome. And it's sort of the unknown factor of this all. |
| Jason Heaton | Speaking of flying here, this fellow here in the second row. flew a Cessna 172 from the West Coast out here over a couple of days. |
| Unknown | So that's commitment, right? |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Well, that's, I mean, that's another thing about the Chicago shows. People come from all over. I feel like that's a Midwest thing. |
| Jason Heaton | I don't, I mean, Chicago's like striking distance from a lot of places. It's kind of central, which makes it conducive to that, I think. Yeah. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah, I think people are willing to get in their cars or their planes and just fly or drive for hours to come see watches. It's a wonderful thing. Before we get to the Q&A session, I just want to give you guys a hand for your awesome Slack community, which I'm proud to be a part of. It's just a really wonderful thing to check in there and see so many really cool conversations happen. It was an inspiration to us in creating our own Slack community and you guys just do such a great job with us. I wanted to give you credit. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I appreciate that for sure. And look, while it was something that I always liked is you'd come to a show like this, you'd have 20, 30 really good conversations with the same 20, 30, 40, 50 people. And then you go, well, how could I, how could I kind of make that not end? So much. Um, and I think obviously some, uh, there's a, a small technical challenge, but we, we went with slack and, uh, and I have to give huge shout out to Chris soul and Jake TS are to, uh, you know, uh, undying, unflappable moderators. It's, it's a, you know, it's a, it's a little over 1700 people. And the weird thing is, and even slack says this is weird cause you get like an award for it. Uh, the, the level of the like percentage of activity versus inactivity is super high. It's awesome just to see it and to have it and to use it as a tool to be able to go a little deeper when we do an event or show up somewhere is great. But even just to have just a spot that feels like it's ours and that people can't really mess with it, or at least haven't been that successful so far. And yeah, it's been an absolute treat. But it is like, sure, we typed a few things into Slack. You know how hard it is to turn a Slack on. It's about 40 seconds of work. And the rest comes down to the folks that show up every day and treat everybody. It's very a non-internet experience being in there. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | A hundred percent. The internet, I mean, I don't have to tell anyone in here that can be a toxic place from time to time. And yeah, it's just like lots of, you know, lots of good people just talking about watches and a variety of other things, of course, too. So, yeah, it's just, it's a really fun community. |
| Jason Heaton | I think so many of us got our start in watches via the forums. Yeah. You know, which I think have tapered off a bit in activity. I feel like this brings back that vibe, but it's a much more, uh, respectful, trusting environment that for sure that I just, I love. |
| James Stacey | It takes you back to my early days on poor man's watch form. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah. I still like, yeah, I was, I still like talk about the forums. Like I'll sometimes say like, you know, I'll refer to the forums as if I'm still like on the forums a lot, but I'm not really, it's all just like Instagram and like the various slack communities. I've just like taken, taking the place of the forums. And a lot of them are here. Thank you. So yeah, fantastic. I'd love to open it up to Q&A from the audience if anyone has questions. This room is full of people, so I know there must be questions. Yeah, I see one right there. If there's a mic that can be passed around. |
| Unknown | This question is for Jason. How did the underwater housing new iPhone set up turn out yesterday? |
| Jason Heaton | It's great. Um, if anyone's on the fence about the oceanic housing for the iPhone, um, for, for diving use, I heartily endorse it. I've used it on three or four trips, dive trips now. And I recently upgraded my iPhone to the 15 pro and, uh, it makes a big difference in terms of photo quality, just having the new phone, but the housing's really wonderful. It's very intuitive to use and the app is great. The color corrections amazing. And, Yeah, the integration's good. And I think one of my favorite features about it is that there's actually a sensor in the housing that actually turns the display on the app that you're seeing on your phone as you're swimming along, taking pictures, shows your current depth and time in gauge mode. So you're actually, it's like a little mini dive computer that's right in your view. |
| James Stacey | The app where you go through the process of actually like putting your phone in and it takes you through every step. Cause I don't know, like if you've ever watched Jason build his gear or somebody build that, you just sit there with an Allen key, like just tinkering and you're like, is turning that screw going to stop it from leaking? Is that how close we are? Just like, you're just barely keeping the water out away from the camera. And with this thing, it's a really beautiful piece of hardware. I really like it, but the app is kind of that, that last little thing that builds a huge amount of confidence where it tells you every step to go through and you kind of confirm along the way. And then when it closes and the little thing like vacuums out the water, It's powered. It's very air. It's powered. It's very cool. And then you're like pretty confident that it's going to be, it's going to work. I was using the lake last weekend. It's awesome. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah. Any other questions? |
| Unknown | I apologize in advance. This is the most cliche topic. What do you being involved in the watch industry and as you are see about the future, but it's a serious topic. What do you see in the future for servicing? I mean, as a guy who's been involved in this for about five years, I've picked up a few vintage, I've picked up some micro brands. And the reality of servicing is really dawning on me. What do you see happening there? Cause it can be tough finding somebody to look at these things. Yep. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Who wants to take this one first? |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | I mean, I think it's a, it's something that is an industry challenge that I don't know if it's been solved yet. I mean, I feel like I've seen, and I'm forgetting the name, but there is like a, a group I've been kind of the UK that a lot of micro brands are signing on for. So at least there's like more of a sort of a systematized and centralized, you know, I think it's one of those things where the incentive to create more watchmakers has to get to a certain point where a certain number of people find it |
| James Stacey | impossible to not become a watchmaker. Like that's when it would be, uh, it would be helpful. I am personally more worried about let's call it the last decade of brands that switched into in-house, but maybe aren't ready to service that movement when the warranty, like, let's say, let's say it's a very high quality movement and it's great. And it goes for five years. Some of those movements aren't five years old yet. So what happens when they run out of warranty two years later? So we're talking two, three years from now. and they need a service, and it has to go all the way back to Switzerland, let's say. Like, think about it just from like a Tudor standpoint, right? Because if you bought a Tudor a decade ago, or even six, seven years ago, you could get one with an ETA, which means anyone could service it. And it means parts aren't closed off. You don't have to be a Tudor tech to get the parts, right? And I think with micro brands, that's, in my mind, part of the safety of buying into a brand that's using a Solita or an ETA or a Miyota is prevalence of the movement. These are brands that like, those are companies that just make movements. They make so many of them. And then the, the, the fact that like Salidas are based on at a architecture just means that it's, there's a lot of transferable knowledge. So you wouldn't have to create a new watchmaker for a new movement, but Tudor does for however many they know they need to service or like, I'm sure we could ask Oris with the 400. Granted, we're talking a 10 year warranty. So something tells me they're pretty sure of that movement. So I think it's something definitely worth considering, but in my mind, I would, I would put more weight on when you start to get into the three, four, $5,000, like right on the cusp of in-house. Cause like, you're not going to have trouble getting a Rolex service. They've got that figured out, but other brands that are making that transition, the movements new, you will have to go through them. I assume to get it fixed because you know, an independent watchmaker, your local guy probably can't get a piece for the movement. Um, so I think it's a really interesting question, but I do think it's going to be There will be scenarios. I think there'll be rare, but there'll be scenarios in the future where the wrong parties, I think, end up holding the bag for the push to get to a slightly different movement or a movement that takes a brand out of the Eta, Miota, Solita supply chain. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah, that sounds right to me. I hadn't really thought of it in those terms of these brands that have adopted an in-house or, you know, semi almost in-house model, uh, you know, recently, but, um, Yeah, that's a potential looming problem. I, I think something that I've noticed just anecdotally, just, um, you know, in my, my own experience and also the experience of some of, you know, some of my friends in the communities, um, they're seeing like longer wait times for, for service. Um, which I think, you know, if you just think about the number of people who've gotten into, you know, watches and the number of watches that have been bought and the scarcity of watchmakers, that makes sense. Um, And it's disappointing, but it's just something we'll probably have to get used to, I would imagine. Um, the solution obviously is to just buy more watches. Uh, so you have other watches to wear while your watch is in service. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | That is, that is definitely what they're hoping, right? |
| James Stacey | The solution is probably to find a masterclass and like learn how to service your own 2824 and go that road and just to, you know, take it into your, take the matter into your own hands. |
| Jason Heaton | I was going to say that there's as a Land Rover owner, there's a well-known phrase. No, There's a well-known phrase that Land Rover has been turning owners into mechanics since 1948. And I think, uh, you know, we, we might just have to take it upon ourselves to fix our own watches at some point. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Have you guys dabbled in that? Have you ever thought about that? |
| James Stacey | Successfully? I've ruined a movement or two. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I've, I took a pocket watch course, three day pocket watch course in Lancaster, Pennsylvania years ago. And it made me dangerous enough to try a few things. And I've been able to regulate a Seiko or take it out of the case to do a water resistance test and stuff. But no, I wouldn't chance working on my own stuff yet. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah, I admire the people who have the guts to open up 2824 and tinker with it. We have a writer who freelances for us, Nathan Schultz, you know, sometimes we'll, we'll do that. He'll, you know, he'll take, take a part of watch and, you know, play with it and see, I mean, I think he's probably destroyed a few, uh, you know, in his time, but he's also probably, you know, successfully regulated some, I don't know. It's a, it scares me though. I don't want to take a watch. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | Yeah. Just the dust factor alone. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Specs on the dial forever. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah. Drive me insane. Any other questions from the, from the crowd? Yeah. There's a couple down here. |
| Unknown | So, uh, Corollary to the fixing is innovation and I was very impressed. I got to spend a little time with Oris today and I saw this combination watch mechanical barometer altimeter. I mean this blew my mind. Also the technology they were using for the case material and this kind of stuff. I'm curious where you think that's going in the watch industry. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | So we had a panel with Oris yesterday where we discussed this very topic, you know, innovation and science and how that's driving new developments in watchmaking. And it really feels like to me, you know, like new materials, you know, novel materials are kind of like the next next phase of this, you know, interesting case materials. Yeah, I think that's probably like what I'm, you know, most looking forward to, because there's all sorts of things happening on that. that front, um, that are, you know, potentially pretty groundbreaking, I think with, you know, like really strong, you know, resilient, uh, materials that can be like, you know, like custom made essentially to the, you know, to a watch a watchmakers whim. Yeah. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | There's all kinds of like cool engineering things that I think are on the, I feel, I feel like, um, like Silicon is still barely scratched the surface. I mean, you know, the, the patents opened up like early last year. So I think you've seen a couple of brands like outside of, you know, uh, Patek Rolex and at least, you know, Dan and the few that kind of started at start to get access to it. So like Fossil STP has a Silicon escapement, their watches, but like the innovation side of it hasn't, I feel like quite gotten out there yet. But I mean, if you recall the Frederick Constant monolith and obviously the Zenith Defy Labs, like, you know, speaking towards servicing, like if there's a point in time where most of your movement is one part and you could print it down the street or something like maybe that is a solve for that. Um, And, uh, yeah, I just, it's such an incredible material. You know, you see the, uh, uh, Gerard Perico constant force escapement, what they were able to do there. And I feel like I'm excited to see where that goes, like where, what are people going to, what novel uses for that material just beyond, you know, it's, uh, natural anti-magnetic properties and self lubricating properties. Like what can it actually do? |
| James Stacey | You know, I think the one thing that it's a fascinating question, cause I think that technology can play into like almost any part of of a watch like I think there's a lot of technology going into watches that we'll never understand whether it's like slightly better CNC tolerances or ways of treating metal you know that makes it more environmentally friendly but doesn't actually change how the watch hits your wrist or might live live with you for the time I think we're definitely right on the edge because we're seeing it with with really avant-garde brands like barrel hand and even some stuff from Richard Mill where 3d printing is right there where you'll be able to, you want a piece from a movement from a hundred years ago. Hopefully somebody scanned it. You know, maybe that's a Dr. Rebecca Struthers library of like 3d printable, uh, fuse a escapements and things like that. Um, but I, I love it both for the idea of like, imagine you wanted to learn how to work on a 28, 24 and you could print one out. That's the size of a small pizza and use normal tools, right? In nylon. put it all together, see it tick, maybe go down one level or then move on to the other one. But, and I love the idea that, um, imagine you're a micro brand and now instead of going back and forth with a factory, that's been making great cases for years, you can now actually deal with that factory essentially by the case file that they know will work and print it on your own. Maybe only for prototyping now, but there will, there will be a time, maybe not in our lives, although it wouldn't surprise me where, I do believe there's a time where like you would be able to walk into a swatch store and they'll print you a watch. I think, you know, we, we were at the, uh, the, we, we all, we spent a good deal of money at the molder Rama yesterday, a handful of us at the, uh, the, it's at the Griffith museum of science and industry. Did I get that close? It seems to have changed his name just recently. Um, but they had these, you know, like injection mold, two pieces slam together and they, you know, and you get a little U boat and I was like, you know, The name of it ends with O-Rama, which is a suggestion that it's probably not the most cutting edge. Or perfect. Oh, no, it's definitely perfect. I mean, I got a whole submarine for $5. I'm really excited to see what we get from 3D printing. I'm really excited to see what you hinted at, where the level of engineering that's going to be in a movement is going to slowly minimize moving parts. And that's points of friction, so you're not only changing lubrication profile or the serviceable profile but also lower friction means better accuracy means better efficiency like and we're seeing this in very avant-garde watchmaking now which is a push towards a certain type of simplicity that's like a little bit pure in that in that metric and I'm just excited to see any brand that decides to pick a little lane whether it's 3d printing or interesting dial materials like there's so much look at Go buy G-Shock. There's not two dials that are the same. Each one uses some insane PVD process to get a color that only they can explain to you. They go so hard in the paint on really complicated case structures and they're just really good at what they do, but you have to like almost sit and listen to a presentation to really understand that you're not just buying like a crazier version of your Timex Ironman from when you're a kid. It's like a whole different, you're kind of into a whole different genre of watch. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | I always love when G-Shock comes out with something with like a bezel made out of a metal I'd never heard of before. Like Aerodine? Yeah, where did that come from? Just actually, you reminded me, like just talking about technologies that are already being used and they're like invisible, which I think will be more of it. But like you think about Grand Seiko and like MEMS technology. |
| James Stacey | Oh, yeah. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | The efficiency they're able, you know, make it an 80 hour high beat movement using by like hollowing out tiny parts that are microscopic. You know, it's little things that'll make it go a long way. |
| James Stacey | Absolutely. Yep. I'm, I'm super excited to see what the kind of that next wave is. And if you, if you're not sure, definitely dig into barrel hand. Uh, what they're working on is like deeply cool. The, the production watch that there'll be selling to people is slated for later this year. They have teased it on their Instagram. It weighs nothing. It can deal with the temperatures in space. It's a conventional looking watch. It's, I think a pretty exciting thing. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | I'm glad no one said AI. That's uh, well, some, you know, |
| James Stacey | That might be writing the watch website that you buy the watch from, I'm sure. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Don't say that. |
| Unknown | I don't know. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Or I'll be out of a... Yeah, no thanks. Yeah, I think we have a question right here. |
| Unknown | Jason, so you spent months prepping for the fan dance, and unfortunately now it's over. You did a good job. What's next? Any new physical goals? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, you know, I just got to keep up the fitness, you know? I mean, I put in that kind of investment and effort for so many months. I mean, double digits for the plank challenge. Yeah. Keep planking. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Um, no, there was somebody here that was talking about a, uh, a longer event that happens in Scotland. Um, it was Rob, uh, Rob's here, but anyway, it sounded, that sounded interesting. It was like, um, it was like a 40 mile thing, um, over a bunch of mountains up in Scotland. So who knows, uh, in the shorter term, no, I think I'll just kind of keep maintaining the summer. Um, few people have asked about whether I'm going to write a third book. And, uh, I kind of put that on hold because, you know, I wanted something more physical and tangible to kind of dig, sink my teeth into. So we're kind of coming into that time of year when, when maybe it's time to move back to go back in the cave and sit down and write a book or something, you know, but any other questions from the audience? |
| Unknown | Well, Jason got to give the, uh, trip report for the diving. So James, this is now your question. Have you touched on a little bit with the museum, but what was the best part of like that experience and going through and the exhibits that you saw? |
| James Stacey | Oh, I mean that bond exhibit at that, at the science and industry museum is really good and definitely worth your time, but it's the five Oh five, like that U boat's incredible. Uh, and, and the space it's in is incredible. Even if you don't feel anything about a German war boat, uh, the, the spaces in the story of how they kind of were, buried it in a hole in the ground. It kind of looks like a sub pen. I was not ready for it. I didn't look at any photos online. I kind of like to be surprised, especially by things like exhibits. And then you turn another corner and it's this absolutely massive room with a full U-boat sitting in the middle of it. And it's an incredible story, uh, about how it was, um, you know, captured, uh, by the American, uh, Navy. And just to be able to walk through it, especially, you know, obviously Jason and I are big acolytes of Robert Curson's, um, shadow divers. And that exhibit is referenced in the book as something they use to learn the layout and the physicality and sort of some of the nature of the design of the, the U boat. So, I mean, that's a special thing. I've, I've been lucky enough in my life to see some, some cool stuff. Uh, uh, you know, I, I like to try and find any museum that's got an SR 71 or an adjacent, anything adjacent to a stealth plane. And, but to see a U boat, that's just, if you got something to do this afternoon, If you don't want to stick around at the show anymore, definitely that's a good option. And I just absolutely loved it. And to be able to do it with a bunch of other people who had read Shadow Divers, like a handful. I was with a handful of you fellas. And it was just a good crew. And I love a museum. It's great. |
| Jason Heaton | And for those that don't know, there is a World War I U-boat sunk in Lake Michigan. So if you want to combine, wind up in a lake. There we go, Chris. There's next year's challenge. Start going to the museum. We'll go dive a U-boat in the lake. |
| James Stacey | I'll call the Orama company. We'll get it working. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Any other questions? We've got time for a few more if folks have questions for any of us. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | I asked this question last year. Ten seconds each. Tudor, Pelagos, Pelagos, why? Or other? |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | I'll go first. Pelagos, just because that's how I've always read it and understood it and I've heard it most of the time, but I'm willing to be corrected or wrong. I really don't know. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | I go with Pelagos. I also mispronounce a lot of things, but I can hear the correct way to pronounce and still say it wrong immediately after. |
| Jason Heaton | I always, I tried to say Pelagos, I think after last year. I've ruined it. I've ruined him. I'm just, I'm just Pelagos. Yeah. Got to go with Pelagos. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I think it's Pelagos for me. It is for me anyways, but I do know like, um, I think this is the answer I gave last year when the Lamborghini Murcielago was dropped, everybody had two ways of pronouncing it. And even like you'd watch a video from Lamborghini and one guy would say it one way, Murcielago, and the next guy would say Murcielago. And I'm, I'm okay with either. Uh, uh, yeah, it probably is Pelagos. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | I mean, I historically mispronounced things. Uh, so it's quite just blame the Canadian. Yeah. Always blame Canada. That's a song, I think. I think so. It's a hit, I think. Any other questions? I saw a few hands up back there. |
| Unknown | Yeah. This one is about what you mentioned about feeling guilty about having a bunch of dive watches and not diving. Okay. Speaking for myself, I have outdoor hobbies that kind of fall within the TGN realm that I perceive to take all of my time that I can't learn to dive. In a very basic way, how much time and how much money does it take to get to where you can dive in the Great Lakes or on vacation? Maybe that's the same answer. Maybe it's different. What's that look like for somebody who needs to understand the time commitment? |
| Jason Heaton | It's not as much as you might think, especially nowadays. I know that that Patty offers and they have for a number of years kind of an e-learning component. So there's kind of three main components to the training. You, you do some book work and kind of learn the theory and answer some quizzes and questions and that sort of thing. And then you take that, um, to kind of a classroom and pool session where they teach you like in a, in a controlled environment, uh, confined space, uh, where you can, you can practice the skills that you've, you've learned that usually takes place over a weekend. And then after that, there's of course the open water, category where you have to actually go and prove that you can do all these skills in open water in a lake or a quarry or the ocean. And, um, all told, you know, look, it's been many years since I did the training, so I'm not sure what it's costing these days. Uh, we've got a dive master in training or instructor out in the crowd here. Maybe more than one Jeff might know better. Um, yeah, yeah. So, so like the gear, you know, you can get in, like you can certainly rent gear, but like if you're buying your own, you know, anywhere between five, 500 and a thousand bucks or just, just rent the bare minimum the coursework. I'm not sure about the exact cost of that, but I think, you know, you could do the, the, the classroom and pool stuff within a week and then get your referral card. And when you, next time you take a tropical vacation, that'd be the way I'd suggest. I did it in a very cold lake and it wasn't very pleasant, but, uh, you know, take, take it somewhere warm, take, go to Mexico or something and do, Do the five or six dives that they require. And then, and then just, just dive a lot. I would say dive a lot right after you get that card and just get comfortable with the skills. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I would say the, and the only thing about the whole kind of scenario that would change for great lakes is you'll just need more cold water protection. Um, and if you really want to dive, that means more money. Exactly. Yeah. To be really comfortable in the great lakes. I don't think it's unfair to say that you probably would want to go dry suit at some point, which is a quick course. It's a couple hundred bucks. And, um, and then the suit can be, you know, it'd be another thousand dollars plus, uh, for the suit. But I mean, if you want to do vacation stuff or like what Jason recommended is what my wife, Sarah and I did last year for her certification. She did two weekends of book and pool in Toronto, and then basically got like a little letter that we took to dressel divers in, uh, Cozumel and they just took over. And we did the four, uh, like cert dives. I just hung around during those dives. I mean, it's drift diving, don't have to do anything. It's great. And, uh, and she had a blast and then, and then you just, Like Jason said, we did try, we packed another eight dives in before we left Mexico. And yeah, I would say it's probably, if you do that way, it's a little bit more expensive to do the referral, but you get to do the class portion in nice warm water. If you want to do it in a quarry, which was fine. I mean, for those of you who know the Vancouver area, I did my certification at Whitecliffe Park and about three feet of visibility. So a quarry sounds fine to me. I do think it's still a cottage industry dive training. You'll meet your instructor, they'll become a friend of yours. If things go well, they'll be the person you ask gear for, invest into that world, tip these people. Well, I think it's quite important. People don't talk about that a ton. And then lastly, like go to your dive shop and ask all these questions. They'll have deals and they'll say like, Oh, sometimes we run a promo where it's, you get your, the first level and then it gives you a discount when you want to go to advanced or something like that. And if you get in with those people, you'll realize that it's the most social hobby. You have to dive with somebody. So you need at least one other person, you'll go to fun dives on the weekend, you'll meet new people, you'll dive places you've never dove before, you'll dive in terrible conditions and still have a great time because you're with a bunch of other fun people. It's a really great hobby for sure. But I don't think it has to cost much more than we think like it's probably like a $1,500 investment to really get going at the start these days. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And definitely, if you're into something like cycling or some of these sports like this, you can spend a lot more on skiing and cycling than you would on diving, especially if you can do it locally. I mean, the Great Lakes, there were plenty of guys yesterday in wetsuits, and it's a little chillier, but you can get a good seven or eight mil wetsuit, even secondhand, and it doesn't cost that much. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Zach, it sounds like that U-boat dive next year is going to be real. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | I'll pick out the watch first. |
| James Stacey | We'll go diving down at Brighton Beach or getting the water down by Brooklyn. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Any other questions? |
| Unknown | Okay, we just covered the time and money commitment. My wife has been trying to get me into diving for a while, but I'm kind of in the same boat as Zach where I kind of, water just kind of scares me. But as far as like physical capability, like how much physical capability do you need to have before you start even thinking about the classes and stuff like that? Do I need to be able to take, like be able to tread water for 15 to 30 minutes? Do I need to be able to go a couple hundred meters? Like what's the physical capability necessary for diving? |
| Jason Heaton | There is a swim proficiency portion of it. It's not horribly arduous. I think they could actually make it a little more difficult than it is, but I mean, I, you know, I think it's fine. I think, um, you know, my wife, uh, before she got certified and even now she isn't the most confident swimmer. Um, and, and she does just fine diving. Uh, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I do think that, you know, you know, being fit obviously is, is good for kind of air consumption. factors. If you're diving in hot weather with lots of heavy gear, it can be something that's hard on your cardiovascular system and that sort of stuff. Uh, as with anything, you know, fitness is good, but in terms of like the qualification that you need to get into the actual dive training is it isn't, um, it isn't insurmountable. I think it's, it's very doable. |
| James Stacey | The other thing I would add is you might find, cause I have, I know a few people who aren't huge fans of water. They don't like being in deep water. They don't like being on the surface of water and not knowing what's below them. but they really like diving because you go down and then it's, you're, you're at a different kind of strata. You're not just at the top and feel kind of exposed. Um, and the last thing I'd say is again, check with your local dive shop. They may do, I've seen everything from like essentially an adult version of bubble makers, which is like get in a pool and try the regulator and a mask with like really no risk or, or fear otherwise. And then you can definitely do like a discover scuba dive on a vacation. And, uh, you know, someone will take you out. It's very chill. It's really fun. It's definitely safe. And, and, and, I mean, it's one of those things where you would know within a minute if this was something that like you were delighted by or kind of like, nah, never. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Uh, Jason and James, this has been great. Uh, thank you so much for, uh, for coming on the podcast again, the collaborative podcast, uh, always, uh, always a lot of fun. And thank you for, for coming to wind up Chicago. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, thank you. This is a, this is a highlight of us for the year. Um, it's, it's not only great to see you guys and, see all these brands and walk the show and kind of experience Chicago. But, um, it's such a great chance to meet so many of our friends and listeners and subscribers and supporters. And we thank you all so much for, for coming out for this. It really means a lot to us. |
| James Stacey | Thank you so much for the opportunity and for everyone who showed up and hung out with me at the museum and has walked around the show and had a beer and the rest of it. It's great. And a huge shout out for citizen for just making it super easy and really dialed for the kind of event we wanted to do that made sense and was fun and the rest of it. So it's nothing short of an absolute treat to be here. So I'm already looking forward to next year. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Awesome. We'll be happy to have you here next year as always. |
| Kyle (Worn and Wound) | Yep. Thank you. And you know, hopefully we'll see some of you wind up New York in October. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Zach (Worn and Wound) | Yeah. Enjoy the rest of the show guys. Thanks a lot. |
| James Stacey | Thank you so much. Thank you. |
| Jason Heaton | There you have it. That was the second half of our shared podcast with Worn and Wound. A big thanks to both the Zacks for having us on and just a nice engaging conversation and to everyone who offered up questions for us. That was a fun exchange at the end there. Kind of sad to see it go for another year, but you know, we'll be back. |
| James Stacey | All right. So why don't we jump into some final notes and we've both got kind of two little, two little things that came of the show. Yeah. And, uh, and just one that, uh, at least in my case, I, I just hadn't realized I'd been using it so prevalently for the last year. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um, I'll, I'll kick it off. You know, we both were gifted this, uh, at windup, uh, by our buddy, Jeff, uh, watch cows dive on slack, um, and on Instagram for that matter. Uh, Jeff was on the dive boat, um, big nautical buff, uh, big, uh, Enthusiastic diver, always good to see Jeff. And he handed these to us. It's called a ship's wheel spinner by a small company called Oceanus Brass. You can find them at oceanusbrass.com. We'll throw a link in the show notes to this specific product. This is the, as I said, the ship's wheel spinner. It's, I mean, how do you describe it? It's like a little fidget spinner. It's a fidget spinner, essentially. Yeah. It's beautifully made. out of brass and it's basically as, as described, like you hold the kind of hub of this, what looks like a traditional ship's wheel, um, give it a spin and it'll just run and run and run and run. And it's just, it's addictive to just sit and do it in your hand. Um, I was doing it at the airport. I was doing it while I was talking to people at wind up, um, it's 40 bucks on the Oceana site and I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but you know, once I got the link to this website, it's like, I want about seven things from here because they've just got some cool little like desktop gadgety, some are useful, some are not so useful, but just beautifully made. And, uh, and this was just really fun. So thanks to Jeff for that. Um, yeah, check it out. It's fun. |
| James Stacey | Good gift. Yeah. Huge, huge shout out to Jeff for this. He just handed it to me and I didn't really know what it was. And I was like, is this a fidget spinner? He's like, yeah. I was like, oh, okay. Cause Like, obviously, fidget spinners were huge for a while, I guess sometime during the pandemic, maybe. And I never bothered with one. I was just kind of like, I don't need a toy or whatever. And it turns out I was dead wrong, just dead wrong. This thing is awesome. It's fully machined, so each of the spokes actually screws into the central hub. So you can actually disassemble the entire thing down to the central hub, the kind of thing that you hold, the grip, the finger pad, whatever, the bearing inside it, all of it. So, yeah, I went back on that plane and sat through four plus hours of delays just playing with this thing and listening to podcasts. It's really cool. I like it a lot. So yeah, a huge shout out to Jeff for that and much appreciated there. And then mine this week is actually an item I got last year at Windup. And then while chatting with the brand that makes it, I realized like, oh, I've essentially had this in my wallet or in a pocket for the last year. And that's this... I think I talked about it on the one last year. I probably did. as part of it, but just as a heads up, um, because I saw a couple other people pick them up. This is the giant mouse cap lifter slash pry bar in titanium. And so Jim Worth, who's a huge supporter of TGN, a big element on our Slack, uh, runs giant mouse, uh, and they make essentially largely really, really nice knives, folding sport knives, kitchen knives, the whole thing. And I have a few of their knives thanks to Jim and they are absolutely fantastic. But as someone who travels a lot, these sort of pry bar scenarios are quite handy. And I had never really jumped into one, certainly not sort of a premium one. This is 105 bucks in titanium. But like I said, once I was chatting with Jim, I was like, oh yeah, I got this last year. And it's essentially been with me the whole time. It's so thin I can slide it into my wallet. But it has sort of a belt loop hook on it. You can obviously open like it's a pry bar, a bottle lifter, so you can open a bottle with it. It has a pry bar at one end that's a little bit sharper. So you can kind of like easily dispatch, you know, an Amazon box or something like that. And moreover, it's just kind of like very pleasing, nicely sort of made thing. And, uh, I just hadn't really noticed that it would something that I had been carrying now for a year, you know, you don't necessarily think about that kind of thing. And then I was chatting with Jim and looking at some of the new knives and that kind of stuff. And, uh, I just figured I'd throw it out there as, as an option, because Uh, it's just one of those items that I like quite a bit and they make incredible gifts and all that kind of stuff. So that's the, uh, giant mouse cap lifter and a cap lifter slash pry bar and titanium. They make a bronze or brass one as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I've got the bronze one as well. And it's, it's cool. I mean, this in one pocket and the, uh, the ship's anchor fidget spinner and the other, I mean, you're, you're kind of set. There you go. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Got lots to do. There you go. And they even, they make them, they make another one that's called the, um, hotel key fob. and it looks like a little mouse and it's $35 and like is more just for like a bottle opener. But if you're worried about maybe not needing some of the other stuff or even this seeming a little bit too sporty, aggressive, that sort of thing, it has, you know, it has that edge from the pry bar. If that matters, you could also check out something a little bit more straightforward, which is the, I'll put this in the show notes as well, but that hotel key fob one is 35 bucks, which is nice. Cool. Yeah. Definitely cool stuff and a really fun episode. Like I said before, a huge shout out to the crew and everybody who came and hung out and brought watches and, and, you know, went to museums and went on dives and chatted at the show and all of this, it was just such a annual highlight for, uh, for Jason and I. And then again, uh, for making it possible and putting the event together and getting us on the pod, a huge shout out to a citizen. for all the support there, and the watches, and the giveaway watch, and the rest of it, and then to the folks at Worn and Wound for their continued support, not only of Grenado, but of our kind of involvement with Wind-Up. It was a great year, and one that will be difficult to, yeah, to beat for next year, but we're more than willing to at least give it a try. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it's a good problem to have, to try to top something like that. Totally. And I can't think of a better way to spend a midsummer weekend than with a bunch of friends Just doing totally nerdy TGN type stuff. And it was such a pleasure. Agreed. It was great. |
| James Stacey | All right. Well, as always, thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode, or consider supporting the show directly, maybe even grab yourself a new TGN signed NATO, or simply jump into the Slack that we keep talking about, please visit TheGreyNATO.com. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from Epictetus who said, he who laughs at himself never runs out of things to laugh at. |