The Grey NATO – 289 – Catching Up With Zach Pina (Photographer, Watch Writer, And More)

Published on Thu, 20 Jun 2024 06:00:00 -0400

Synopsis

In this episode, James Stacey is joined by special guest Zach Pina, a photographer, creative director, and founder of We Are the Pip. They discuss Zach's work in the watch industry, including his photography for brands like Hodinkee and his creative process. Zach shares insights on his journey into photography, finding inspiration, and advice for aspiring photographers. They also delve into Zach's experience shooting in remote locations like Alaska for a Chopard story and the challenges and rewards of capturing unique moments.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacey Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches this episode 289. And it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening and would like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details My name is James Stacy and I'm joined not by Jason Heaton this week because he is in the UK taking a little holiday and running over a giant mountain. He will be back next week to talk about his experience at the Fan Dance and carry on his normal co-hosting duties. But today I'm going to be joined by a special guest who I will get to in just a moment, but of course you've seen in the title. Just before we get to that, very quickly, a little bit of news. We've got Wind Up Chicago coming up mid-July. For any of you who are interested in a hangout that we've got going on with Citizen on Sunday morning, a little breakfast, a little preview of the show. We've been talking about it for the last few weeks. We should have an RSVP to send out and to put in the show notes as early as next week. But just stay tuned for complete details and also the RSVP. But we will have an event Sunday morning at the show with Citizen, a chance to have some breakfast, chit chat with some friends, hear a little presentation from Citizen, and then actually get a chance to do a lap of the show without the full crowd. I think it's a pretty good offering, and I'm looking forward to seeing a bunch of you there. OK, with the preamble out of the way, let's minimize me talking all alone, and I will intro today's special guest. His name is Zach Pina. He's the founder of We Are the Pip, a photographer and a creative director. If you're into watches, you already know his images, including in great stories like Where the Eagle Soar for Hodinkee. He's a multi-hyphenate, an avid cyclist and simply a guy with an eye and a proclivity for adventure. We've been talking about having him on for what feels like forever. So here he is. Welcome to the show, Zach Pina.
Zach Pina James, thank you so much for having me. This feels, I feel like I've probably listened to every episode of TGN, maybe every episode. I just have to say, no one has set the bar for quality and consistency higher than you and Jason have. And I also have to say, I don't recommend watch content to any of my non-watch friends, except for GreyNado. It's the only podcast that I've comfortable saying like, hey, you need to listen to this interview with Richie Kohler. I mean, this is like all time adventure stuff. You guys had quite a journey and it's been really fun to follow. So it's success is very well deserved.
James Stacey Well, all of you can tell why I had Zach in my music placing. I'm having a tough week, a little gassing up here. So I appreciate that very much, Zach. That's sweet of you. You've long been one of my most favorite watch photographers. One of the few where I will see a photo and go, wait, how did you do that in that room? How'd you get that photo? You do such a great job. You've shot some stuff for Hodinkee that I'm a huge fan of, but really in any of your work, I really enjoy, even when it's not just watches, you know, obviously the bird stuff is great. The cycling content on Instagram, also fantastic. I've got kind of like a million things to talk about with you. There's a pretty solid list. I don't know that we'll get to all of it. I say that pretty much anytime we have somebody on the show, but I would like to start with Where the Eagle Soars, which was a dispatch you wrote for Hodinkee. And we recently had a question on a Q&A about this story and how it came to be. And I thought it might be fun for... We'll get into everything else because you've got a lot going on, but maybe that's a nice way to start because we already have the footnote from a couple episodes ago. Why don't you give me a little bit of the BTS on how that story came together and then what it was like to actually head out legitimately almost into the middle of nowhere, which Alaska still is, and capture some incredible photos and then try and connect them with something as... a sort of not wildernessy as a fairly luxurious sport watch from Schilpau.
Zach Pina Well, thank you. I mean, all that's amazing to hear. And I, you know, it's such a, it's such a weird thing to kind of connect, uh, to connect nature with, with, with watches, with luxury objects. And you see that in the comments, there's always sort of like the cynical guy who's like, you know, watches and nature don't, you know, matter or conservation is a lost cause and all of these things. I feel super strongly about all of these things. Anyone who loves nature understands that this stuff matters at every level. And whether you can convince one person to pay attention or you can convince 10 people to pay attention or kind of change their habits, I feel like all of those things matter over time. And the bald eagle story is amazing because when I was a kid, when you were a kid, we're about the same age I think, I'm there wouldn't be bald eagles really now. Um, and I'll kind of leave those details to the story cause there's quite a lot in there. It was small changes over a long, a long period of time and going person by person and town by town for change to happen. And now I was able to go to this place in, in Alaska. Um, you know, it was a flight and a flight and a seaplane and a, you know, a drive, it was a hop, a hop and a hop to get there where there were literally, you know, bald eagles stacks on stacks of bald eagles in trees. They kind of congregate there every year for reasons that are also outlined in the story. And I just thought it would be amazing to connect that to the Chopard story. I'm a big fan of Chopard, you know, kind of an independent family owned brand making cool stuff. I mean, there's sort of Eric, Eric Wind called, you know, Chopard sort of like the Patek Philippe of like the nineties, like what Chopard has been doing for the last 20 or so years is kind of what Patek was doing in the eighties and nineties. And I think that holds, holds a fair, amount of truth still, if you've, if you've kind of handled a lot of their stuff. Yeah. The, the LUC stuff, especially. LUC stuff. Especially. A hundred percent. Yeah. I think that's really kind of moral. Very high end watchmaking for sure. Couldn't agree more.
James Stacey So I'm, I'm curious, you, you get this story together, you've got an idea you, you did, and you don't, I mean, it doesn't matter to me cause I got the story, but did you pitch it around or did you bring this to me first at Hodinkee?
Zach Pina No, you were, you were the first and only person that I, that I brought it to. I mean, quite honestly, like Hodinkee is the, is the platform, you know, it's, There are much respect to our colleagues and friends that work for other outlets, but you know, I've known the numbers. I've seen all the numbers and you know, you kind of want to go to the top. I feel like if you have a cool story that you go through the work and time expense of putting together, like why, why wouldn't you try to make sure that most people see it? And again, I think, I think kind of with conservation, with, with regards to conservation yeah, as many people as possible should see it. You know, the Alpine Eagle story is interesting because the elder, you know, third generation, it is a sports watch. They've done sports watches before. The original Saint-Maurice was kind of inspired by like the hedonistic playground of Switzerland, which maybe hasn't aged super well just in terms of like the positioning. But the conservation angle, you know, there's kind of a cool little birding story in the family that you'll read about in there. And that's kind of how this watch became attached to to birds and they set up a conservation for alpine eagle, by the way, is not a bird. Uh, it is a, it is sort of a, a general like category of birds that the alpine eagle that inspires a lot of what, um, what people are sort of talking about is actually a golden eagle. And there are quite a few of those in, in Europe. Um, we have them in California and other parts in North America, but the bald eagle was kind of, it's kind of, that's our bird. So I thought it would be amazing to go to this, this place in, in, uh, in Alaska. And, um, and kind of juxtapose the watch with the birds and sort of tell a conservation story and a birding story and a watch nerd story. And at the end of the day, the Alpine Eagle is kind of a tool watch and it looks awesome in the ice and stuff. So that was super fun.
James Stacey It does. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the photo's incredible. And like I said, when we talked about the story previously, I thought the pitch was strange. I mean, it was a strange, I've not received such a pitch and I receive a not small number of like what I would call half bake pitches, which is not what I would say this was. This was kind of nebulous and I had and like if this came from somebody else, I probably would have said like, yeah, it's probably not for us. But with you, I at least knew very worst case, you wouldn't miss the avian element and the conservation element and you definitely wouldn't miss on the photography. And I highly recommend anybody swing by the site and check it out. If you don't know the story, it's in the show notes. It's really great stuff. But I am curious, like how did you. What was the planning like outside of of the watch or the story consideration, but like getting there, bringing gear, all that kind of stuff, was it that can have been a small task?
Zach Pina No, I have a I have a longish and it grows by sort of the weak list of places where interesting birds or animals live. And I think more The older I get, the more time I sort of spend playing with cameras, like the more I'm interested in just doing nature stuff. It's kind of what I really enjoy at this point. Great excuse to go out. Exactly, exactly. Any way I can kind of tie the two together is sort of a win-win. So I've known about this little town, Haines, Alaska, for quite some time. And I've known that there's quite a good number of bald eagles there, and there have been for a while. There's a bald eagle preserve there. Getting there was kind of tricky, and the time of year when the eagles converge there is late October, early November, and that's right around the time when the weather starts to go to hell. And so I knew that with the weather potentially being bad, that I'd have to have a pretty lightweight kit. Anytime you're shooting watches and you're shooting animals, you're bringing two completely separate pieces of kit. And so everything had to pull double duty. you know, whether it was, so I, you know, I did bring several strobes. I brought diffusers. I brought a few very small, very portable pieces of kit. But like, as you know, these are elements that we already travel with. I already have like a very portable lighting setup that I take to trade shows and stuff that packs down pretty easily. So that went with me. And then, you know, the Sony's 600 millimeter F4 lens is the size of a, it's enormous. It's absolutely enormous. It takes up its own, you know, it comes, uh it takes up almost an entire pelican case pretty much it was like that and then i could put carry on pretty much so for this for this project i knew i had a carry-on in a backpack that was all i could carry so everything you know everything i and i ended up getting stuck there for as you'll read the story for a good number of days as they got their first very big storm of the year uh while i was there but what's amazing about that is like it dumps in all this snow and then the bird behavior completely changes so it was amazing because i was able to shoot the watch on the first day that I got there when it was sunny and beautiful and like absolute bitter cold and then literally the next day it snowed 18 inches and then the next day it snowed another 20 inches or something like that and it was amazing to see yeah just kind of how the birds maneuver around the storm and they sort of let other animals pack down the edges of the river so they don't have to like do a ton of work to pluck the fish out and You know, I think the many years of doing the trade show circuit, Watches and Wonders in Basel, to get my watch photography kit as small and mobile as possible, and then being able to combine that with, you know, the much larger wildlife setup. But I didn't bring a gimbal or a tripod or any of that other stuff that maybe a lot of the more traditional wildlife guys might run and gun with, because it just slows you down. And then invariably when flights get canceled and you have to move stuff around, you can't really be checking bags. I'm in the never check a bag club. backpacking, you know, other lenses for, for outdoor stuff afterwards.
James Stacey So, yeah, I mean, when, when I moved from Vancouver to Toronto, I, I, I checked a bag that broke my rule. But other than that, I've, I've been pretty, pretty, pretty solid on, on not, not wanting to check anything. So I understand that for sure. Well, you know, you mentioned the, the background with Basel and, and watches and wonders and the rest of it. I, you know, I'm curious, cause this is a question I genuinely don't know the answer to. Did you kind of start in watches and then get into photography or start in photography and then kind of get into watches?
Zach Pina I started in mountain biking, actually, and got into photography. I moved to California from Utah by way of Michigan, by way of Japan.
James Stacey You born in Utah? No, I'm from Michigan.
Zach Pina So I grew up in Michigan, went to college in Ohio, lived in Japan for a few years, moved back to the US, lived in Utah for a few years, got way into cycling, was a bike messenger for a couple of years, then moved to California to work for a mountain bike brand. who needed a photographer and somebody to live out of a Sprinter van for several years. So I drove all across the country in a Sprinter van, photographing mountain bike events, mountain bike trail building.
James Stacey Before van life was a thing.
Zach Pina Before van life was a thing. And Instagram was just getting started. And honestly, I feel like this brand was like two years too early because. It happens. Yeah. It was just a little bit too early. And it was seriously like when I got the brief, they were like, yeah, we're getting a Sprinter van and we're having it built out. in Bend, Oregon. So you're going to fly up to Bend, pick up the Sprinter van and drive it back to California. And then we're going to send you all these things. Love it. And, and like, I would show up to like a mountain bike race or something. And everybody would look at the van as though it was like some alien spacecraft thing. I mean, literally, you know, it had like, had like a little shower and a kitchenette and like a full down bed and a bike racks and stuff in the back. And like compared to today's modern, like influencer van life standards, like it was not great. It was really not great. Oh, sure. Yeah. I feel like we were just a little bit too early to the curve on that, but, uh, but that was fun. I got to see and kind of ride all over the U S and, and get comfortable with the camera and, um, figure out kind of what I liked and what I didn't like. And I started hiring people to shoot things as I settled into my role in California several years after that. And as I was hiring people, you know, it just got to the point where like, you're like, man, I probably could have done that better, or I wish I could have shot this project or I should have Pitch this thing and so that always and you know I've always I've always liked watches and my dad always had interesting things Tag Heuer's and Doxa and various things over the years. He was a big Navy guy. He gave me a freestyle when I was in high school. That was kind of my first time watch. I still have it. And yeah, so they were always sort of in the back of my mind, but working with them wasn't really a thing. And then when I was in Utah, I bought a Sony NEX 5, NEX 3 camera that it was like their earliest mirrorless setup. Very micro four thirds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pre-M series. Exactly. Exactly. And I took a loom shot of like, I had a Victoria Knox Divemaster 500, which I also still have. And that was like my first nice, like Swiss watch. And I took like a loom shot of it sort of overlooking the city one night and it was fun. And that kind of, I think that was like the first watch photo I ever took. And then it kind of,
James Stacey Man, mine was also a loom.
Zach Pina I don't know what it is.
James Stacey Psycho monster, some sort of tracer. Yeah, it was like five or six watches and I charged them all up. And at the time my sister was getting into photography. I didn't own a camera and my sister was getting photography and like loan me her Nikon. And I cracked off a couple of frames and I was like, oh, this looks friggin sick.
Zach Pina What is it about loom shots? I don't even understand. I don't know, man.
James Stacey They're the best glow in the dark. Anything in the dark. It's not it's not. We don't get to decide. This is true. This is true. So The was the Victorinox kind of the first one that you you sought out and picked as like, this is a watch for me, for the lifestyle that I'm into, that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I mean, I love that there's it's the same four brands. I mean, that those generations that had a bit of like the Breitling. Oh, dude, that's exactly what it is. Yes. You could get it for normal money. Yeah. It was like four or five. I mean, they make they make some great stuff. And it's always I speak to people who are especially folks the same age as me. So this can't be surprising. but it's always, there's only three or four brands. Like I had buddies that got deep into Esquire. Remember ESQ and, or Movado, both like mall brands, but still around. And if you were, you know, depending on the style at the time and then otherwise it was Victorinox, Tag Heuer, Seiko, Citizen, lots of Citizen.
Zach Pina It's kind of embarrassing how nice this dial is. This was a four or $500 watch. And it's astonishing how nice this dial is. Like the, there's a, it's a very deep dial. And there is a, so the, the date window sits in like another zip code cause it's so far underneath the dial, but there's a Cyclops, there's a Cyclops over the date window and the, and it's framed and it's all under, it's all under the glass. So you get the Cyclops effect. Like it's astonishing how nice this dial is. And it's embarrassing to any other brand that charges $2,000 for like a painted dial. Not, not to put shade on brands that it's all these other reasons, but, It's just, it's insane to me, like what Victoria Knox can get away with for the price point for it being, for, for it being kind of what it is at the quality level. So the, I mean, and their watches, I have a, um, you know, currently probably my most worn, you know, I wear this quite a lot on the bike. Uh, this is the Inox titanium, um, also, also VSA, also quartz, but this watch is probably my most hammered watch, but I wear it a ton on, you know, for bike rides and stuff. It's very lightweight. There's no, you know, it's just super simple and, I like to wear a watch while I ride because I don't have a, you know, I don't put the time on my head unit and try to keep like that's a power and ride time and distance and those kinds of things. So, uh, also just looks cool to have a watch on.
James Stacey So I think so. I mean, yeah, you're preaching to the choir on that one. I mean, I, it's an interesting thing to, to Jason and I talk about this a fair bit, trying to figure out like, what's the point where you're really not buying the product anymore. You're buying the brand. It's true. And Victorinox, there's a number. Seiko, there's a number. Rolex, of course, there's a number. Omega, Breitling, all of it. And like, you know, You're Terrific did an incredible video this week on the F91. Yes. Yes, he did. Casio, which is, I think, 18 bucks these days.
Zach Pina He was like, you can find them as low as $11. I immediately went to Amazon.
James Stacey I was like, what? Yeah, no, they're cool, man. And like, I still have a huge fondness for the A500, the world timers. I've owned them in all, all the metal versions. They're all plastic, but the gold, the steel version, all of that, there's just, there's, there is something to be said for the fact that a watch simply doesn't, especially if you're not a hobbyist, you can get a great watch for under 50 bucks. 100%. It's completely true. It's super true. And I think it's very easy, especially if you're making, you make a podcast about loving watches to lose sight of that sometimes. So shout out Evan for, for that video. As always, the guy does a great job, but it's sometimes fun to set the line and the line is 18 bucks. That's what we're all trying to be here, whether we're spending 500 bucks on a Victorinox or, uh, you know, the numbers never really, there's doesn't seem to be a ceiling on, on watch enthusiasm, but yeah. And before we go too far, while we're talking about watches, let's do a quick risk check. What have you got on today for the recording?
Zach Pina I'm wearing my, uh, my VC overseas, uh, Everest edition. So this is, This is quite a cool watch. I feel like it comes up a lot and I'll go to gatherings or when people see me at Watches and Wonders, everybody wants to see it. And if I'm not wearing it, they're objectively disappointed. And so I felt like I had to wear it. I had to wear it for TGN specifically. So shout out to all the friends and folks that ask about it. I do still have it. It's on my wrist. It's running. It's set to today's date.
James Stacey Yeah, no, I'm obviously a huge fan of that watch. One of my favorites from Vacheron, probably one of my favorite luxury watches made in the last 20 years. Very cool, very rare to see, so I appreciate you wearing it, especially you knowing that I like it. And I actually picked a watch of similar inspiration, different zip code, if we're sticking with that metaphor, but I'm wearing the Arken Alterum.
Zach Pina Yes, I'm dying to see this.
James Stacey So kind of a similar bracelet case idea with this. Yeah, I love this a lot. To the VC. I love this a lot. And just a huge fan of what Kenneth is up to. I've been wearing this a ton. It's super light. I'm obsessed with titanium currently.
Zach Pina When did it switch for you? You weren't always a titanium stan. It changed. You changed, James.
James Stacey It was when I had a watch with a good enough bracelet. Like the Pelagos 39, if we're still going to talk about expensive watches. My Pelagos 39, it's just I wear it all the time. And I love wearing it on other straps. It's currently right next to me on an Erika's, which is great for the summer. But the absolute truth is like that watch on the bracelet, they got it. They nailed it. It's right. It's the way that it should be.
Zach Pina You hit it right on the head because I think titanium got a bad rap for a while and no, no shade to like Bertucci and brands doing like affordable titanium. But I think that there was a point where titanium was like so affordable that it felt really cheap. It like felt way cheaper than stainless steel, like the tolerances were super, super lax. And I just think that like the machining capabilities of it and like the purity and the quality and the ability to like finish different grades of titanium has changed so dramatically in the last 10 years that like the quality of tie watches has accelerated really dramatically also. So, dude, I'm skirfa. Yeah, it's a good point. Very good.
James Stacey I've never, I, to be clear, I also zero shaded Bertucci or any brand that can make a titanium field watch for under $200. kudos. I love it. And they also do the loom case one. They do some cool, very cool work, but the, um, the scurf of stuff is also a big changing. I had an MS 22. It became redundant when I had the Pelagos and it sold in 10 seconds on the buy, sell trade in the slack, um, really cool watch huge scurf a fan. And to think that that's what they, that's what they're putting out for that much money is just, I mean, we talk about it a lot. We've gassed them up plenty, but, uh, It's good stuff. But yeah, titanium. I'm not super sure why. It could be, you know, it could just be that it's I finally got like the right product in the Pelagos.
Zach Pina You know, I have to say that I had an old two line Pelagos a few a bunch of years ago. I had to import it from Italy, actually, because they were not available in the US. This was prior to like the Hodinkee story saying they were coming to the US. But it had, and I'm sure yours does still, the tightest tolerances of any bracelet that I've ever. It was the most difficult bracelet to get off because the tolerances were so incredibly I'm
James Stacey and not the bracelet link. You slide the watch over the link. It was funny. You're safe. And if you're still worried about it, put tape around the back of the watch.
Zach Pina Yeah. Put tape on the back. I mean, that watch should come with the players because if it comes with those extra straps and like the lug pieces and everything, I was I was embarrassed, like to to list that watch for the condition that my lugs were in when I finally sold it.
James Stacey There's a there's a silly joke for the Internet somewhere of just Tudor selling Pelagos pre-scratched on the back of the lugs. Don't worry about it. We already did it. We already did it. When we size the bracelet for you, we just put scratches in there. Let everybody calm down a little. They do it for you at the store. It's artisanal.
Zach Pina That's amazing.
James Stacey You know, that's amazing. Brand scratches. Hand finished. Yeah, that's great. I'm a huge fan of that VC. I'm so glad that it's found a good home with you and that you get a chance to wear it. It's a very special watch.
Zach Pina Normal people like me shouldn't be able to have access to stuff like this. And I, I, I have so much respect for the people at VC because I, I was, I was made aware sort of after I'd gotten it and, and the boutique kind of followed up, you know, a few weeks and months later, um, with the fact that. Making sure you didn't sell it. I think, I honestly think that was probably part of what it was. Why don't you come by for a coffee? We need to, we need to see a photo of that watch on the cover of today's New York times, uh, proof of life for, for one week weekly. No, but they, you know, they were, they were really amazing just to say that, like, you know, we're really happy that, that you've been enjoying it and you've been, you know, using it and taking it on adventures. And, and they, you know, the, the, the team in Swiss, the VC folks in Switzerland were, were adamant that, you know, obviously, obviously limited edition watches should go to, to people who've been supporting the brand for a very, very long time. And like they knew I wasn't going to buy another VC. They knew that I was not going to get a tourbillon and I didn't have to buy a 56 to get on a waiting list or anything. Things have changed, but they knew that these kinds of watches needed to be distributed evenly in a sense that they are limited, but they needed to also go to people who weren't just going to keep them in a safe and were actually going to use them. I feel really lucky that that they had that kind of foresight. Cause I do think that's also how you, you protect a brand's own integrity. And I know that like, you know, limited things are not equally distributed, but at the same time, it's easy to get, it's easy to get really jaded and that like everything in the watch world is just reserved for the white whales. And that is true for many brands. And I think there are still brands that know that they are making limited things that can be hard to get, but they are not trying to, to preserve that status quo as limited as they may be.
James Stacey So, you know, I also think that, With Vacheron, what you get that you might not get with a Rolex or an AP or Patek is it's a little bit more of an insidery thing. Yeah. It's very quiet. It's very conversation based. It's so Swiss. It is. So yeah, it does. It does kind of change the way. And they simply don't make as many watches, limited or otherwise. They just don't as some of their kind of direct competition. So it has always been a brand that felt more like you're dealing with a smaller brand than a bigger brand when you interface with them. No, that's 100% true. Well, look, speaking about brands, I'd love to pivot a little bit because I think lots of people would know you from your Instagram. Lots of people might know you from things you've worked on or other outlets that you've worked with, but you also have an entire other layer, which is this business you've started called We Are The Pip. Why don't you give people the elevator pitch on that? Because I guarantee there's folks in the audience that aspire to do something similar, are working in the same space, and might be great collaborators, that sort of thing.
Zach Pina You know, The Pip, started as, um, you know, the, the PIP on a dive watch bezel was sort of the, the inspiration, but also, you know, at the time I was doing a lot of work in the cycling space and I, I still do a little bit of that also, uh, to PIP someone is, is also, you know, used as a verb, uh, you know, at the finish line to sort of throw your bike at the finish line. And you, when you, when you just beat someone by just a very small margin, you know, you can PIP them at the finish line. So it has this kind of fun multi layered meaning that I thought was kind of fun. So I started the PIP in 2019. I was working for a PR firm here in Sausalito in Marin County, and mostly in the bike space. And so I kind of pivoted to start my own PR work in the watch space, because at the time I was doing quite a lot of... I was doing quite a lot of media list management and PR related stuff. And I was already kind of working with several watch brands on the side. And so I was just going to make that sort of the main thing. It originally started off as just PR, PR and kind of marketing consult. And I've been, I've been shooting and hiring photographers and working with creatives for many years. And like I was saying earlier, there were often times you would get a project back or turn something into the client on behalf of the creator and just be like, man, I wish we'd done this. We should have done this. I could have done this. You know, almost always, I could have done this better. And now, you know, when I shoot something and then you see somebody else do the work, you're like, they probably could have done it better. So, you know, we're always, always comparing and combating. So I'm not saying that's healthy, but that's what I was doing. And then when COVID hit, um, you know, I was working a little more closely with a blog to watch at the time and, and shooting quite a lot of watches on the side. And then that just started, snowballing into other photography opportunities kind of in and around the watch space because everybody was sort of staying at home. And I think the apex of that was when like a, you know, like an armed guard and a, and like an armored vehicle, like rolled up my driveway with a $50,000 watch and like delivered it on my porch, you know, during COVID. So it was like a no contact armed guard delivery. It was in like this, this sack that he had to cut open with a knife and I shot the watch in my little home studio and then he showed up 48 hours later and drove the watch off. And I was just like, this is insane. What is, what is happening? Um, and yeah, and so since then I've, it, the PIP has kind of turned into more of like a production agency. So I know this is not elevator pitch anymore, but the PIP is now more marketing consult and, uh, media kind of a content house essentially. So I, I have a number of, uh, directors that I use for various film things and we tap in kind of a crew depending on what the project is. And so I've been lucky to work with a number of amazing brands in and around the watch space for commercial and editorial projects and worked with Hodinkee on a few things. It was really fun to shoot the Unimatic project last, I think that was last year. That was, that was super fun. Kind of being able to tie together cycling and watches for something that was And that was it was fun because the brief for that was actually fixed gear cycling. And so when I lived overseas and, you know, I was really big into fixie bikes, actually. So I still have my fixie in the in the storage unit. But fixed gear is there's no brakes.
James Stacey And so it's got one gear like like your BMX bike when you're a kid. That's exactly right.
Zach Pina Yeah. You pedal backwards to slow it down. You should watch Quicksilver with Kevin Bacon or Premium Rush with Jogo Leavitt, I think. So I was, yeah, JGL. I was, I was a, uh, I was a bike messenger in Utah at the time when that movie came out and like all of, all of, all of like the bike messenger guys went to the theater to like heckle and throw stuff at the screen. That was pretty funny, but that's, that's what I did. So anyway.
James Stacey Well, that's great. And you're, it's been a, uh, an enjoyable process. You like it, you like the work and, and the kind of opportunities it brings.
Zach Pina It is. The creative space is tough because anytime, you know, it's easier to hire people to shoot something because then you can critique that thing. Um, it's harder when someone hires you for your vision, but they sort of have their own vision of it. And so there's always, there's always creative friction when you're, when you're working with multiple people. And so over the years, I've kind of honed in some clients that are easier to work with that trust the vision and the process. And some clients, the old 80, 20. Yeah, exactly. So you got to cut them. That's exactly right. And watches are amazing because, I hear this a lot in that when people are like, oh, you're a watch photographer and like, wait, you're on a sailboat or you're like, you're looking at bald eagles or, you know, you're, you're, wait, you went to an F1 race. Like all of these things are actually connected through watches because the watch world has, I mean, virtually anything that you can think of, you can tie back to time telling. So, I mean, we went to space and we went to the bottom of the sea and we went to, you know, virtually everywhere. So it's amazing in the watch space specifically and kind of uniquely in a sense that this guy is, literally and figuratively the limit in terms of what what we can kind of do. And it's our playground for virtually for sure.
James Stacey So, well, you know, I'm curious then to extend that. Like, where do you even up to today? But over the last several years, you started a business and then had to operate through the pandemic. By all means, dig into this concept, if you like. Either where do you find your inspiration or how do you keep your ambition moving?
Zach Pina It's interesting. I, you know, I get a ton of inspiration from So I live in Marin County, which is just across the Golden Gate Bridge. You shot a beautiful piece for Tudor in the Marin Headlands with the Black Bay GMT, I think. So you have Marin experience. And I have to say, you know the area.
James Stacey I know the area well. I would take you for pancakes right after this at Lighthouse if I could.
Zach Pina Amazing. I love, actually, I've done, I've shot a couple of sunrises in the Headlands and then gone down and had pancakes at Lighthouse in Saucy. Shout out.
James Stacey I don't even like pancakes that much.
Zach Pina I like beer pancakes. There's a few other spots now in Saucy, too, that I would I would take you to as well. But I when I came out here to visit when I was living in Utah and came out to do some bike riding in the Bay Area and I rode the Marin Headlands. So if you ride to where you guys shoot, you ride up a little bit further to the top of Hawk Hill and then you descend down the backside past all the batteries. That descent is it's like You just, the way the ocean kind of opens up and it's foggy and cold and it's, it's such a sensory overload. And I, I mean, even now I get kind of goosebumps describing it because it's such a, it's such a, um, yeah, it's a sensory, it's a complete rush, sensory overload, just the speed and the vertigo and all of the senses from the ocean and, you know, the mountain, all of this.
James Stacey And, um. Sounds like when I try to describe why, why I would, every time I'm in LA, I extend a day to have a morning on Angel's Crest.
Zach Pina Exactly.
James Stacey Exactly.
Zach Pina You're just like, I have to live here. Yeah, that's exactly it. So yeah, it was just like, I have to live here. And I think Marin as a whole has everything to offer from the ocean to the mountains, to the deep redwoods, to you know, the, the sweeping grassy hillsides and we have, we have jungle and we have beach.
James Stacey A different, a different, uh, a different season every 25 minutes.
Zach Pina Literally. Yeah. I mean, it's very much like Vancouver. You know, you know this well, uh, you know, our climate is very similar and our, our topography is also very similar. Uh, we have a seaplane landing strip here in Sausalito as well. You guys, that's seaplane culture in Vancouver. So, yeah, I mean, there's so much inspiration just here. Um, And it was funny because I heard this, you know, Peter McKinnon, who I'm sure you're familiar with, the YouTuber, a photographer. I follow his work kind of loosely, less so than I used to, but he did a video recently where he was just like, if you're feeling stuck, go shoot a sunrise. And he articulated something that I feel like I've done before, but never put a finger on like, oh, that actually works. you know, in the same way that like shooting birds for me, like just going to the beach and lying in the sand with a long lens and just waiting for like, um, you know, plovers or pipers or whatever to kind of cruise through frame, um, is weirdly like meditative and there's no pressure and maybe you'll get a shot and maybe you won't, and maybe you'll post it on Instagram or, but maybe you won't, you know, no one, there's no expectation or pressure on what you create. And for some reason that opens you up to, you know, maybe the sunrise comes up and you shoot the, the leading lines on the beach. And, and for some reason, like those moments to me, um, lead to other things. And so Peter encapsulated that perfectly. He was like, go shoot a sunrise. And I love that because it is very true. Like wake up at 4 30, go use a FM area or the sun seeker app and figure out where the sun is going to be, you know, at 5 30 or 6 AM.
James Stacey I mean, I think James is going to be shooting a sunset.
Zach Pina Yeah. James is going to be shooting a sunset. Yeah. Um, but do that shoot a sunset. Yeah. Shoot a sunrise and it's amazing. It's amazing what happens when you go out to shoot without any pressure and I love your photo walks that you do too because I Know the feeling of just going out and like here's a cool flower and here's a like those are honest That's honestly my favorite kind of content that I consume on Instagram now It's like I don't want to see bangers because I know what the bangers look like I want to see what those little in-between moments look like because oftentimes that's the stuff that keeps the fire going I also also think like
James Stacey At its core, I understand that Instagram is no longer a photography app. It's not Flickr. I still see it and want to use it as Flickr because I'm 38 and I miss the days of Flickr where I belonged to a club for each one of my lenses. And it didn't matter if I took a picture of a watch or a bird or a flower or a sunset. If I took it with a 50, I could put it in the nifty 50 forum and we could all talk about it. Ah, I miss those days. Oh, me too, man. I miss Flickr a lot because it was about the photography. And I think the other thing is that, and Instagram will have to contend with this, is we're starting to see more and more conversation about the death of the brand page. So the idea that somebody might want to follow a Formula One driver or even a team principal rather than the team's Instagram page. And it's because it cuts down a layer of like boardroom planning, the slickness. I think that the internet's getting real sick of slickness to a certain extent. And especially now that AI is going to be making so many of those pages active rather than responsive to creativity, we're going to see a lot of changes. And I think that small communities and I think that stuff, the stuff that comes out between when I might post about a watch I just wrote about or a car I photographed And sure, the stuff in the middle that's like the way the sun came through a window at a vintage shop that I was at with my wife or a beer on a patio or that kind of stuff, that's still where I go like, oh, that photo makes me feel a way. Whereas if I look at a photo of a famous person promoting a product or even a non-famous person promoting a product, my brain just immediately, it's like I'm seeing it in black and white. I just couldn't care, there's nothing there for me.
Zach Pina It was kinda like we, Everybody went to Horseshoe Bend. Everybody shot the Shibuya Crossing. Everybody shot, everybody shot all the places that you're supposed to shoot. And then the in-between moments are the stuff that matters. And it's interesting because I hear this a lot from, I hear this a lot from clients and it's kind of a, it is both a, it is both a knock and also a very, it's answering a very specific request in the sense that like clients don't know that they're like, They ask for something that doesn't look quite so polished or quite so staged or posed or commercial in a sense. And what they're really asking is, like, can you just put the flash on the camera and shoot direct and do a little shutter drag and make it look kind of like bad wedding photography from 1987? Like, yeah, perfect. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. We can we can make everything look very crappy. And in a sense, they're not looking for crappy photos, but they're looking for those in-between moments that don't have the same level of polish that Instagram has kind of taught everybody to look for. And I think for me, professionally and personally and creatively, it's really interesting to, one, to continue to hone your craft of being able to produce polished images that evoke a certain look or feel or communicate what I'm feeling, but at the same time also being able to be okay with shots that are not perfect. And in a sense, this communicates a moment, and that moment is more important than communicating a level of polish or technical capability, which I already feel comfortable with. But there's kind of a beauty in that. And I think that's where cameras like the X100, you know, the five and the six variants really have kind of shined is because they strip out a lot of that polish. And like you just have a very capable camera at the hip at any moment to make something that inherently looks cool.
James Stacey Yeah. Look, I mean, that takes me to kind of my next point. I see pretty much it's probably because I'm getting older. And I remember eras of the way I dressed or eras of the music I listened to and everything for me in art. And I use art in the widest possible term in like a media theory that includes whatever somebody might put on Instagram. All of it feels like it's a response to something. So if the world was suddenly everybody told you you needed a three or four or $5,000 camera. And I'll be clear, TGN has never made that point. I have an expensive camera because I have an expensive job. If I didn't have this job, I would have a much less expensive camera and you can have a great time with your phone. You can have a great time with a 50 year old film camera. You can have incredible time next to nothing. Photography is not designed by the camera. It's designed by the photographer. I think it's fascinating to think like if you were starting photography now, knowing what you know, but you wanted to get into it, and you didn't necessarily want it to be a pro, or that wasn't the goal. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't. You want to get into it, enjoy it, maybe share some shots online, or be part of an online forum for a certain type of photography, that sort of thing. Outside of having to tune the camera to a specific task, like let's remove sports photography, or even aviary, avian photography, where you kind of desperately need a long lens. Outside of that, what tips would you give to someone if they came to you and said like, I like your photos. I would like to have this as a creative outlet. I don't care about selling it. I don't care about this or that. I just want to have some fun. Where would you point someone?
Zach Pina Yeah. Oh, man. It's it is a very good question. And definitely the question that I get the most is what bike should I buy and what camera do you shoot or what camera should I get? This is the question that's being asked. And it is I mean, you know, it's better than anybody that like the the best bike is the one that you want to ride and the best camera is the camera that's with you or the camera that you want to shoot. I kind of extend the same response to both, and I know it's a little bit of a cop-out, but at the same time, buy a bike that gets you psyched to go ride it, because if you don't like looking at it, you're not going to want to ride it. It doesn't matter how light it is, it doesn't matter how well it dampens vibration, all of those things are really only characteristics for people that are not asking what kind of bike should I buy, quite frankly. The guy that cares about those metrics is not asking on forums because he's sponsored. He's racing at a very high level. And I think the same thing kind of goes for cameras. And the thing is, is like all bikes, all modern bikes are objectively excellent now. All modern carbon fiber bikes are amazing. They're insane. All modern cameras are amazing. And I think for me, the most important thing is like, What fits your form factor and what makes you want to go shoot photos? And I think the X100 is a great example because I've shot the first one, the Fujifilm X100. So I've shot the very first one and then I shot the third one and then I owned the fifth one and now I own the sixth one. And the differences between the first and the third one was marginal. The difference between the fifth and the third, you had a four, okay. The difference between five and three was pretty, was quite a leap. But the difference between six and five is marginal. But if you've been shooting a lot, the differences are pretty dramatic in terms of like the autofocus and all of the things. But like from a spec standpoint, they're both great cameras and they both make me want to shoot photos. And so I love the X100 because it doesn't take up as much room in an insert as the Leica Q2, which I also love, which you love. So going back to my watches and wonders example,
James Stacey The X100... The Q is a fairly large, small camera.
Zach Pina It's actually kind of a large, small camera. And the X100 fit better in my cases with the lenses that I was taking than anything else. And that became kind of my new sidearm, like my new sort of on the hip camera. So that camera makes sense for the form factor that I was after. I was after something pretty small, but like had a decent sized sensor so you could crop in. So to go back to, to go back to your question, like, you know, finding the camera that fits the type of shooting that you want to do or the lifestyle that you sort of inherit and not so much the like, which one shoots video and which one has this spec. And honestly, I'm not, I'm not super up to speed on most of the specs. I've been shooting Sony for many years. And when I started, when I started shooting, I, um, the Sony cameras were just, they just had the best. They had the most lenses that were available. and they were the lightest bodies. And I wanted to be able to like go backpacking and have like a fairly comprehensive kit of glass to take out on like photo missions without weighing it out.
James Stacey That's how I ended up with a 6500.
Zach Pina Exactly. I mean, that's honestly about as good as it, that's about as, that's about as good as it gets.
James Stacey Yeah, exactly. I still, I still, I don't recommend a 6500. Buy the cheapest 6000 you can find on Craigslist. Or open box at Best Buy. And then just put some 60 year old lens on it. You'll have a great time.
Zach Pina That's exactly right. And those are, those are insanely capable cameras and they fit that form factor. And the thing is, is like I shoot projects and you'll see I, in my, if you swipe through, if you, if you looking through kind of my, on my Instagram page and you're kind of padding, like, you know, I like to post a few different photos in each kind of set. So you get a feel for like a place and the thing. And oftentimes several of those photos are shot on completely different camera systems, but you can, you know, you can color grade things and edit things in a certain way that like, Color science is important, but if you're shooting raw and you're operating at the same base level and carrying your edits through, people can't tell which camera was used for which shot. What matters is that you had the right tool in the right moment to communicate the right feel. And oftentimes, a super long Sony lens... So going back to the Alaska story, I had my Q2 at the time. The X106 was not out then. So I had my, and this is my favorite sort of way to do wildlife is that you have the 600, the 600 mil long lens, which is your rifle, so to speak, and then you have a sidearm for the wide stuff. And so I would fire off a few frames with the long lens of the birds and then sort of step back and shoot the scene with the Q2. So we had this wide and tight, um, approach to every, to every kind of scene. And I think that for me personally is my favorite way to approach a project because you can really, you, if you only take pictures of animals, you sort of lose the sense of place. And I think it's really important to have a little focal length variety. And so for me personally, the focal is more important than the actual camera itself. If you can get the shot with the camera. I mean, again, all modern cameras are so auto-focus is so insane. Now it makes me cry. Like what I used to, what I used to be shooting on. It makes me cry. What I have now, um, I've shot a few projects on Sony's A1 and it almost takes the fun out of like it. a find a focal or a feel that works for you. Cause for, for many years I shot when I was doing the van life thing, I pretty much did the whole thing on a 24 to 70 for two years. I only shot a 24 to 70 and that's a perfectly capable focal.
James Stacey I bought, I just got a new camera system and that's the only AF lens I bought was a 24 to 70.
Zach Pina It's the best place to start. Honestly, it's really genuinely the best place to start. But what I realized- All the coverage you need, one camera.
James Stacey It's all the coverage you need, but I- It's not as much fun as shooting with a real fast 50 though. Correct. It just isn't. Correct. Or a good 85. A good 85?
Zach Pina changed me. It feels so good, man. That was the first lens that I bought outside. Buy a Sigma art lens. Buy a Sigma 85 millimeter art lens for whatever camera platform you have. It will change the way you look at photography. It changed the way I looked at photography because I'd shot within the realm of 85 millimeters, but you're right. Everybody's beautiful. Everybody's beautiful.
James Stacey Products are beautiful.
Zach Pina That's what your face is supposed to look like, 85. And then from $85, play around a little bit. If you want to get weird, try a $135. Try a $16. Try a $14. $135 is whack, but try it. It's real fun. So good, man. Rent a 400mm 2.8, because it's insane that that exists.
James Stacey I'm a big fan of renting the long stuff, because it's so expensive.
Zach Pina Always get the insurance, but always rent. When the first sentence is, I have the insurance. It ends the conversation.
James Stacey Look, man, I want to be, I want to be respectful of your time. I know you've got a hard out in a few minutes. We still would like to get to final notes. Would you like to hang out and do final notes with me? Absolutely. All right, rad. So before we get to that, and we did not get to even half of my questions, but there is one I did want to get to or two, sorry, we'll do two and then we'll hit final notes. What's one piece of advice you wish you could give yourself now at an earlier point in your life? What age and what would you tell yourself? And assume that within the world of the hypothetical, your younger self isn't surprised to see you.
Zach Pina I like this a lot. So they actually accept the advice. I would say that tattoos are very stupid, but they're very addictive. And I would say think really hard about that first one. And then when you're ready to get it, think a little harder. Um, I just finished a large one is my first one. I think, I think my first one was dumber, but I've completed, I've long since completed a very intensive coverup of it. So my first one is more or less gone. And then the rest of them, they're, they're, they're very addictive, but they're very dumb. Choose your tattoos wisely. Choose your tattoos wisely. Yes, exactly. That is, that is the first piece of advice I would give. Uh, I would say, look, YouTube is an amazing resource, but don't watch, watch, don't watch YouTube camera reviews. camera reviews
James Stacey If someone had just said, I think it's a faster feedback loop. Like you get a better, what dopamine hit or whatever from buying a piece of gear than taking the camera you have and putting 4,000 frames through it to get a photo that you're really happy with. That's true. And the world will teach you. The first thing is so accessible. Amazon, B&H and like go to BH for the first time and not buy something. Good luck. It's the coolest place ever. This is a insane Photoshop in New York City. This is right. But yeah, and I think and then you go read a photo book or you look, you buy a photo book, which I think is a better way to spend your money when you're first getting into photos is buy books. And you look at it and it's unlikely the person talks about their gear at all. It's true. And the guys who are on their 10th book, they carry almost almost no gear.
Zach Pina Yeah. And if you get caught up in reviews and stuff, you end up with just the absolute dumbest I own, I'm not ashamed to say this because I feel like I need to hear this and other people need to hear this. There's no shame in evolution. I own a pistol grip cold shoe that you can, you hold it like this and you mount your flash on it and you can do off camera flash and it's a pistol grip and it is, it is the dumbest. I'm embarrassed to like, I feel like I should just frame it in the studio as like a reminder, like don't do this ever again. But that was a result of getting caught up in like YouTube reviews were like, you know, this is gear that helps you out on your shoot. And I was just like, I needed an edge. I needed anything that could going back to what I was saying, like, like rent lenses, shoot every focal length, find what feels good. Do that, do that before you buy everything. I just think that would, that, that, yeah. And then I, you know, I'm, I'm not an early adopter. I, um, I got, I feel like I got burned on a lot of like video tech early on and I stopped being an early adopter. And I kind of wish, I kind of wish I would have bought like a photo camera sooner. So I don't know. You know, it's like buy a bike, buy that bike sooner, like buy skis sooner, buy a camera sooner, maybe buy like Bitcoin or NVIDIA sooner.
James Stacey If it's the thing that puts you in the position to do the final thing, the bike, the skis, the vehicle, maybe the camera. Yeah. Yeah. Get those and then just get out there. Yeah. But I do think a lot of people spend their, the first multiple years of their interest in any hobby. just absorbing the media tied to that hobby. And for cameras, that's extra strange. And it comes from a guy who still I still watch camera reviews. I know I do, too. I do, too. I'm out there. I do, too. I watch them. Well, I watch guys do thing on the half frame Pentax couple. I watch them.
Zach Pina Well, I mean, I I'm not going to buy that camera. No, never, never. I mean, at this point, I'm not as influenced by them anymore. It's your point. You watch them for entertainment. You watch them while you're cooking. But yeah, I mean, I don't don't get caught up in that by by the thing and then go put 4000 frames in it. Make sure that some of those frames are within 85 Sigma art.
James Stacey Try the 85. Try the 85. Obviously get a fast 35 or a 50 in there. I'm a huge and it's not popular. Maybe that'll change someday. I'm a big fan of like 21. Yeah. Years of using the queue, which they say is a 28. It actually resolves it more like a 24, 21, especially if you're traveling. If it's less about portrait work, so much fun to shoot because you suddenly have this like view that feels similar to the way my brain, like the width of my vision, not the specificity of what you're actually looking at, but like the, the wraparound feel of it all. Yeah. And, and then vintage lenses, they don't, they don't, they cost nothing, especially wide ones. 28 FD from Canon. I see them all day long for 20 bucks.
Zach Pina Every modern, every modern camera that has focus peaking on it. Again, focus peaking is not new news, but if you know, if you come from the DSLR world, being able to see what's in focus before you shoot with sort of the peaking lines or the colors, depending on your, on your screen. Again, this is not new tech, but if you're coming from old DSLR or film tech, this is mind blowing stuff. But like, now that there's focus peaking, I shot like a cinema BTS, like a behind the scenes project a year or so ago with declicked vintage Leica lenses on a Sony A7S body. And it was the look is insane. It's a fully modern body. You're shooting a computer, but the, the glass gives that project, you know, it gave that project such an amazing, like cinematic feel. I mean that I was completely sold on like being able to shoot things that way in, in, you know, in that kind of. Yeah.
James Stacey I mean, I see it a little bit like, uh, like the way I would approach a vehicle. Like I need to have a vehicle that gets me to work, gets my kids to school, that kind of thing that runs and is safe. That's my 24 to 70 Sigma art. Yeah. super happy with it. L-mount works beautifully, but it weighs a ton. I find it kind of cumbersome to use because of the weight and the size and the rest of it, like I might my Jeep versus a vintage sports car. But if I just want to go for a walk, if I just want to go for a drive, I probably want the fun old thing that's a little bit more involved, a little bit more fun, a little bit more creative in the way that you take to the space.
Zach Pina And those wide lenses force you to, you know, for the longest time, I kind of fought the wider focals, like, cause I, everything, all the wide stuff, if you don't, it looks like an iPhone. And, and, but what's amazing about shooting a wide fast lens is that you, it forces you to really, really focus on your composition and shooting interesting angles and lines. And it really forces you to kind of look for the photo in the photo. And when I finally started shooting wider focals, I, it, it kind of clicked again for me. So, um, yeah, I, I sort of fought the wider stuff and then, and now I have a, yeah, but I get it.
James Stacey It feels unfocused. It does feel unfocused. Not in terms of the sharpness, but just like there's so much to see what is the photo. Yep. That's exactly right. Yep. All right. That's rad. Let's get into final notes for the last few minutes, but before we do that, how can people follow along and, uh, and keep in touch with you?
Zach Pina Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I have a, I do have a website, uh, it's wearethepip.com, but, um, It's funny. When you, when you put things on a website, your photos will always look better. So, you know, even if the world has no interest in what you're shooting, you will feel better about what you shoot if you put it on a website, I swear. And so, you know, I have, I run my Instagram. It's Zach X R Y J. But, but I, I love my website just because I feel like it's just the photos show the way I intended them to be seen. So that's, I enjoy kind of padding through my site being like, oh, yeah, that that is a good photo. Like it looks like crap on Instagram. Like that was a good photo. That was a great moment. I'm glad that like everything's one to one or four by five.
James Stacey Exactly. Yeah. The world's not just these. So that's great. And if you're listening and you're driving, you don't have to pull your phone out. All of these will be in the show notes. So hit the links for that. What we're going to do now is dive into a quick round of final notes, because I think you have about four minutes. That's perfect. So why don't you go first?
Zach Pina I have been watching, so when I'm editing, uh, editing photos and, you know, kind of working on a project on the side, like I have to listen to music because it helps me focus. I can't be listening to podcasts or watching YouTube videos or Netflix or whatever on the side. But I found, I found this guy who has, um, he has this amazing channel of videos where, where he, he, um, he just goes hiking kind of in the back country and then every Every frame is spectacular. And it's kind of ASMR backcountry stuff.
James Stacey Yeah, it's like Drew Simms stuff.
Zach Pina Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's killer. Look at this. So this one, he hikes the JMT, the John Muir Trail, which has been on my list for many, many years. It's one of the most spectacular through hiking trails in North America. And that's kind of here in our backyard, more or less. It's a couple hours away. He hikes it for 21 days. It's only ambient nature audio. This is like such a zen. such as He has several other silent hiking videos that are just absolutely delightful. But this is the one that kind of hooked me because this is the hike that I'm most interested in doing right now.
James Stacey So, man, great pick. Do not sleep on that. Like I said, the first the first three little frames split second frames in the video were jaw dropping. I can go very quickly. We are we are recording this one day after the one year anniversary of the Titan disaster. And last week, Wired ran, I think, one of the more complete stories about the scenario. This is an incredibly sad, avoidable thing that happened. And I think what they've done is they've gone in and added a lot of the human element that made the ball roll so fast down the hill that it became unavoidable what happened. So it doesn't need to be saying more than that. It's a nice long read about the Titan submersible disaster. from Wired. It'll be in the show notes. It's called The Titan Submersible Disaster Shocked the World. The exclusive inside story is more disturbing than anyone imagined. I'm not saying that this is the full story or that there won't be more stories or documentaries or the rest of it in the future. But if you'd like to catch up a year later when the dust is sort of settled on this and and some answers soon be coming forward, I think this is a good way of of catching up on the story if you weren't essentially following it minute by minute back when it happened a year ago.
Zach Pina This is a very, very good read. I just have to say, um, yeah, I, this is, this is, it's, I feel like this is a must read honestly, just cause it speaks to, and for me personally, like this speaks to a lot of like that move fast and break things tech culture, which is so prevalent here in the Bay area. And like we, as a, you know, as a society or a culture sort of celebrate people who ask for permission or they, uh, they, they ask for forgiveness over permission. And this is this is one instance where that is not OK. This is not OK to move fast and break things.
James Stacey Yeah. Look, like I said, I think I see a lot of similarities, like you said, to the tech world, but I also see a ton of similarities to the world of like adventurous alpinism. And there's there becomes this kind of fluid changing to how everybody sees the risk that's involved, because I do believe that between paid space travel and things like what happened with the Titan, this will be a continuing story where this is a footnote in an industry that's growing rather than disappearing. I'm sure that this will kind of hinder that growth, but I can't imagine that people with the amount of money won't want to go see things they can't see. That's the history of tourism.
Zach Pina No, you're right. We're right kind of on the tipping point of all of that, the capabilities of all of that. So it's like, who's going to be the first to put some checks in place? For sure.
James Stacey Yeah. Hopefully they, you know, this is a learnable scenario for the industry and they can move forward, but it's a, it's a wild story and definitely worth a read. And if you want to calm down after that, I highly recommend the video that Zach brought for a final notes. It's a banger. So, all right. I think that'll do it, Zach. I can't thank you enough for being on the show. I apologize for cutting 30 seconds into your, your heart out, but I, I'm on my way to the, to the outro here, but thank you so much for coming on. It's an absolute treat to catch up.
Zach Pina James, this is a delight and thank you again. And like I said, this is this is this is the only podcast I'll recommend to my non watch friends. So thank you. I love it. Thank you for doing what you and you and Jason do. And it was an honor to be here. And yeah, I look forward to seeing you out there.
James Stacey Absolutely. And I appreciate you coming on and filling in for Jason and for everyone who's listening. Thank you so much. If you'd like to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly. and maybe even grab yourself a new TGN signed NATO in the process, please visit TheGreyNATO.com. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive. And we leave you with this quote from Marcus Aurelius who said, the best revenge is not to be like your enemy.