The Grey NATO – 280 – All Lux'd Out Again (Watches And Wonders 2024 Megasode)
Published on Thu, 18 Apr 2024 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
This was an episode discussing watches and other highlights from the recent Watches and Wonders trade show in Geneva. Jason and James went through their favorite new watch releases like the Doxa Sub 200T, Singer Reimagined dive watch, Zenith Defy Extreme diver, and Tudor Black Bay models. They also shared their thoughts on the controversial new direction for Bremont watches under new leadership. In addition to watches, they recapped fun experiences like attending events, meeting people like explorer Brian Jones, and getting to try on rare pieces.
The hosts provided recommendations for checking out the documentary film "After Antarctica" about polar explorer Will Steger, as well as a new video review of the 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser from the Throttle House YouTube channel. Overall, it was an in-depth recap of the major happenings from the important watch industry event.
Links
Transcript
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| James Stacey | Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 280, and it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening and would like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is of course, James Stacy, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and the recent birthday boy, my co-host Jason Heaton. Jason, how are we doing? |
| Jason Heaton | I'm a little older. |
| James Stacey | Just ever so slightly. The percentages get slimmer the further you go. |
| Unknown | Yeah, exactly. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and most certainly watches indeed. We're coming off a pretty watch-intensive week. You tired of them yet, or are you ready to talk for an hour about watches? |
| James Stacey | You know, the funny thing is, is I would say that the watches we get to talk about for TGN, I'm not tired of at all. Yeah. But I will admit, just between us buddies, I'm a little bit tired of talking about the wide world of watches. The older I get, the deeper I get into kind of the TGN thing, the less I kind of... I enjoy it and I love seeing it, but the minute that I leave another $400,000 watch, I probably won't think about it again. And it's difficult for me to like... pick up that excitement off the floor and be like, oh, we should all be excited about this thing that costs as much as a house or whatever. But we've got a pretty solid list of watches, most of them in the four or even three figure sort of setting, mostly four being Watches and Wonders, a few a little bit higher than that, some kind of crazy stuff. But I'm interested and we can get into all of this. I don't want to spend a ton of time, but we didn't do an episode last week. So I'm curious, you got back from a Watches and Wonders a day ahead of me. How's the last few days been? It's been all right. |
| Jason Heaton | It's been good. I got back to some, some lovely kind of warm, almost summery weather, um, which was perfect for getting over jet lag because you know, as they always say, get out in the sun as much as you can get some fresh air. And I did just that. So, um, I got home on Friday in the afternoon and managed to stay up till a decent hour. And then Saturday I got up and I went for, uh, Ghoshani was actually out of town for a couple of days when I got back. And then, so I just got up and I thought, you know, I got to start Uh, as I'm training for the fan dance in June, which is now just literally two months from today. Um, I got to start putting a pack on my back and go hike some Hills. And so I did that on Saturday. I went to probably the hilliest state park within an hour's radius of home and did 12 and a half miles, 2000 feet of elevation and just kind of slogged it out for three and a half hours. Yeah, it did feel good. It kind of, uh, uh, made some muscles I wasn't aware of, uh, newly sore, which is a good thing, I think, because I'll know what, what to work on more. And then, uh, and then Sunday, uh, Ghoshani was back. We went kayaking on the lake nearby and went biking yesterday. So it's been kind of a multi-sport few days and just a good way to kind of scrub the, scrub the travel away. Um, just felt really good to just not do anything, watch or writing or, or content related at all and just get out and do some physical stuff. How about you? How have you felt since you got back? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I got back Saturday night. Travel was okay. Frankfurt did its best, but I won. Made it to the gate in time. And then, you know, despite, you know, hustling through the airport and the rest of it, of course, it ended up being delayed an hour anyways. So it was fine. Made it home in one piece. Actually, pretty overly, you know, as far as economy travel goes, it was fine, easy, comfortable, no issues there. Got home and just kind of rested like you, just decided to stay up as late as I could that first night and went to bed. And I haven't Maybe the jet lag's different this year, is how to describe it. I don't feel necessarily tired, but I am very slow to wake up in the morning. But things have genuinely been fine. I got home, like I said, Saturday and then no F1 this weekend, so I had a little bit of free time on Sunday. Decided to cross a few things off the list, one of which is I finally bought a grill. Haven't had a barbecue or a grill since before Vancouver, so before TGN even existed. Um, and, uh, so went out and bought a, uh, a Traeger, which, uh, we've used for the last couple of meals and I'm super impressed with it. It's, it's an entirely different method than like a barbecue proper. Um, but lots of guys, I got some tips from, from some folks on, on the TG and Slack and that sort of thing. So, uh, just enjoying it, it works operate kind of like a smoky oven is the easier way to describe it. Um, but it's nice. And, you know, so far we've done chicken and sausages and a bunch of veggies and corn and all this kind of stuff. It's great. |
| Unknown | Huh? Nice. |
| James Stacey | I got a, for those curious, I got a pro 22, which is sort of more of the entry level side of the brand, but I'm limited by the amount of space I have in my backyard. I like to actually put it somewhere. Yeah. Pretty comfortable with it. And for us to go from no grill to something like this is a pretty big jump. At the cottage, we've got a nice Weber, you know, propane Weber that I like quite a bit. And that's more handy because at the cottage you want to crank out, you know, quickly burgers, hot dogs, that sort of thing. This is a little bit more of a longer play on food, but it tastes great. Smells like a bonfire. It's awesome. |
| Jason Heaton | Looks like a little locomotive. That's a, that's a pretty cool. I've never seen one. It's got a little chimney. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. So basically that like box on the side holds all these wood pellets and there's an auger that very slowly drops them into a, what's called like a fire pot in the center. So it plugs in. |
| Jason Heaton | There's a, there's a cord that you run. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. It needs power to run that auger. And then the fans, which essentially help it function like a, um, A convection oven? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was kind of the main one. I got out on a nice little bike ride to see some family and pick up some tennis rackets. Sarah and I are gonna try our hand at some tennis. |
| Jason Heaton | Nice. |
| James Stacey | Sunday afternoon was quite lovely, so we went over to the nearby tennis courts. There's some just around the corner from me, and of course there was maybe a three-hour wait if you wanted to sit and wait to get a court, so we've got to figure out. Yeah, weekday afternoons or something, yeah. Maybe don't do it on a sunny Sunday afternoon. It's probably like a lunchtime during the week thing, but It's been on my list. I have a cousin who's very, very much into tennis and he had a spare rackets and wrapped them for us. So that'll be on. And we have a tennis court at the cottage. So I think that's where we'll probably do most of our playing, which would be really nice. So amazing. But yeah, that's about all I've got up to. I've got a couple other things cooking. You know, if you saw my buy, sell trade post, you might, you might have an idea of what I'm up to, but I'll talk about that in the future on a future episode. We've got plenty to talk about today. Obviously this is going to be about, our most watch-heavy episode of the year. So we kicked it off with some barbecue and hiking chat. That's how it goes. But let's jump into wrist check and then we'll jump into the main topic, which is really just a list of watches that we enjoyed from the show. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, you got a new watch too, didn't you? On this trip, right? |
| James Stacey | I did, yeah. So I was bopping around Geneva with Danny Milton, my colleague from Hodinkee, And we had two two guys at the show this year. It was their first year and they were doing like largely support roles. So Jonathan McBorder and Joe Wyatt both operate as producers. Jonathan has also shot like Lamont coverage for us and magazine stories. They're both crazy talented, but it's their first time doing a Watches and Wonders. And let's be clear, if you do a Watches and Wonders, especially if I'm in charge, I basically keep everybody working all the time. There's very little like rest and you ask people to do a lot of stuff. And like poor Joe is making daily video podcasts. And as someone with... I personally have experience making daily video from trade shows, you can go back and watch all those vlogs I did for a blog to watch. And look, I'm not saying that what I do is comparable... Or what I did is comparable to what Joe does. Joe's a professional, I was a ham-fisted guy with a GoPro, but I do know how much work it is and how late those nights are and how much it is to try and get that up. And to do it with a sponsored partner, we were there with Lucid Motors, it was a whole thing. So we wanted to get them a gift and both of them were kind of keen on the moon swatch the new Snoopy moon phase one Yeah, and so we went to the swatch That's kind of closer to the to where the hotel is and they're like we don't have them But almost certainly the big swatch across the across the to the old old part of town does So Danny and I made it over there. We actually walked over there with Ken from Arkin and Tom from Clements. |
| Unknown | Yeah |
| James Stacey | made our way over to that part of town, had a really nice chat on the way. We had like an hour between meetings at the Beau Ravage on the Friday and connected with Tom and Kenneth. Always nice to see these guys. And we decided that we'd swing over that way and then probably take a car back, see if we could do it in an hour and not make our meetings late. Of course, we made the meetings late, but it was OK. Anyways, we ended up over there and we're waiting in line. And they said, basically, you can buy as many watches as you have people. So if you want four Moons watches, we'll sell them to you, but you need four people. Luckily, we had Ken and Tom, so I said, can you guys stay here just long enough for them to count you guys as people who are going to end? So Danny, so we bought three of the moon swatches. Danny got one for a story that we're going to produce and then one for Jonathan and one for Joe. And while I'm there, I was just like, you guys got the black bonk bonk, the ocean of storms? And the lady's like, yeah, of course we got it. You want one? I was like, let me take a peek at it. Yeah, she brought it out and like I had seen the blue one and I was pretty keen on the blue one when it first came out and then once I saw it in person, I kind of cooled on it. I kind of cooled on the idea and she brought it out and I was like, I'm not so sure and Danny's like, well, we need a story. You can't borrow these in the states, so we need a story anyway, so just buy it. Yeah, we'll figure it figure out the details later. Yeah, so I bought it and then the next day as I was like packing everything to go home, I like put it on. I threw it on a tan nato, which is the only nato I had It upset a few people in the Slack. You, of course, have my apologies that it wasn't a gray one. It's on a green one currently, so I'm really running the gamut. But I put it on and I've had it on for two or three days now, and man, I really like it. Oh, that's great. That is great. Like I just like the way, like I look down and it makes me kind of happy. And don't get me wrong, I think it's still a weird watch and I'll have a whole story. We can talk more about it. Once I've had more time, the movement feels very rough. I mean, it's not my first system 51. It's all kind of plasticky, but like I, it also is kind of delightful. Like I'm, I'm enjoying it more, way more than I thought I would. I did end up kind of buying it thinking it would be like an asset for a story. Like, so we get photos and that sort of thing. Yeah. But, uh, I've had it on and the loom is good. I really liked the bezel. It fits really well. It wears like a bigger dive watch, but it's so light and easy. Um, and then only today did I go to, put it on a non-NATO. I wanted to put it on like a Tropic rubber because it's 22 lugs. And only today did I realize that it doesn't even have conventional spring bars. I need two 0.9 millimeter hex keys. |
| Jason Heaton | What? Oh, really? Oh, okay. So just like the big boy Blancpain's. Exactly. |
| James Stacey | So I thought, I thought that'd be kind of a fun note. I didn't realize this cause it's my first time being like, yeah, hands on with these watches. But it, yeah, it uses, it uses little tiny threaded, Yeah. Hex or Allen, depending on your locale. So those are coming, but I only own one. I was able to find 1.9 Allen and I was like, look, I could jam a screwdriver in the other side and probably get enough tension to break the threading. But come on, like why do this wrong for the $8 or whatever Amazon charged for a little bag of 0.9 Allens. But yeah, I've got that one in. Do I think the watch like quote unquote lives up to the hype? No, but I think that's also almost impossible. Yeah. I think that you're buying an interesting watch and you're paying a certain amount, both for the fact that it says Blancpain, but more for the fact that it looks a lot like a Fifty Fathoms, if you can differentiate those two things, like the brand on the dial from the aesthetic. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | I do like it. I owned a Moon Swatch at Mission to Mars, and I like it multiple times more than that. It's more just the coloring, that red case. I think I've talked about this on the show, but that red case, I could not find a strap that looked okay with it. Yeah. This is me being very picky. Anyways. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, it's funny you mentioned the kind of the plastic keenness and what I realized now is that there are so many watches, um, not specifically Blancpain, but, um, that are made of alternative materials nowadays that to, to, to find a watch that is not metal, steel or titanium, like ceramics and carbon fiber and whatever, a lot of them kind of feel, I mean, I hate to say it feel like plastic, right? They're lightweight. They're yeah. Carbon definitely can for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, I think that, discrepancy between how, you know, like putting on a swatch versus, you know, like a heavy steel dive watch is there's just less of it now. Cause you've probably tried on the, you know, the carbon doxa for instance, that, that probably weighs about the same, you know, or I'm sure it's a little heavier, but you know, like it's, there isn't that, that jarring sort of like, Oh, I've never felt anything like this before because we have now, cause it's just so many. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, no, it feels kind of at home. And when you glance down at it, Aside from the fact that any slight motion of your wrist, you can feel the rotor moving. And if you have to say, change the time, the hands do all sorts of things. Oh, really? It feels like a 7S26 or something, maybe even an 8215 on your wrist. Do I really care? Not really. I knew what I was paying my 500 bucks for, and it was for more of an experience than like a watchmaking kind of argument. I do like this. I think it's kind of fun. The loom's cool. And when you glance down at it, it is a 50 fathoms. It still says Blancpain on the dial. I think it's something we have to unpack, like what it means to the brand and how it aligns with the brand, especially within the guise of the conversation that we had recently with Mark Hayek. I think it's a neat thing. I'm happy I got one. I'm more happy I got it not just because we needed that story, like I mentioned, but because I thought I would feel one way about it. I kind of thought I would put it on for an hour or two and go like, okay, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. And then put it back in the case and it would be make a good story. And then maybe one of my brothers ends up with it or something like that. But now I'm kind of like, I get it more than that. I like it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. It's fun. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Cool. Good souvenir of a very busy week for you. |
| James Stacey | Have the little warranty card snapped in Geneva is kind of fun. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that is cool. Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | So how about you? What have you got on for our big episode today? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I busted out my, uh, my no date sub, the 14060M. This, um, it's actually the yesterday's date is, uh, engraved on the back. not 2024, but 2010, which was my 40th birthday. And, uh, that's, this is the, this is kind of my, my most significant birthday watch, I guess. And so, yeah, I was, it's funny. I was going to wear this to Geneva. I ended up not wearing it. But, um, when I got back, it was just a few days from my birthday and I thought, yeah, and I've been wearing it the past few days. And, you know, it's, it's kind of like coming home. I mean, you know what it's like you put on your Explorer two and Something about a Rolex on a bracelet. Just it's like, it's like the ultimate comfort. It's like a comfy pair of slippers or something. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I mean, and, and speaking of plans for Geneva that didn't work out, whether it be watches we pick or otherwise, I barely saw you and it's still a total for the whole week. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. It was just insanely busy. My only social time was very late at night and you were being a proper gentleman and going to bed at a normal time. I was, you know, basically only actually getting a chance to unwind a little bit like after midnight. Oh my gosh. And the one night, we'll get to this, but you know, I went to this Breitling thing and I was like texting you and saying like, I think I'll be done in a little while. You want to hang out for a bit? Yeah. And then you're like, yeah, I'm tired. So I'll, we'll have to make it up at some point over the summer. But that was probably the only thing I would say was like actually a kind of social disappointment from the show. It was so nice to see both the people on the Hodinkee team, but also like the, you know, the other folks that we like to hang out with in the industry. I just barely got to see you. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, I realized that I hadn't been to Geneva or a watch show since 2018, um, when it was still SHH and then Baselworld. And, um, so it had been, gosh, what does that make it? Almost six full years of not going back, which seems like a really, really long time. And so to bump into so many people, I mean, just, I mean, you name it, it was just this long list that, and when you're there, it's, it's a, it's a bit of a madhouse. You know, you're, you're threading your way through crowds to get from one meeting to another, but then you bump into somebody that you haven't seen in my case for six years, um, whether it's from a brand or, or from a different publication or totally, you know, anything. And it's, uh, that to me was the most rewarding part of the week was just seeing people. |
| James Stacey | Well, you know, the, the, the last couple of years we've done this show, this episode, you know, the, the post watches and wonders episode. And I've kind of, you know, chit chatted, rambled, you know, the things I do, um, about what I thought of the show and the vibe and how that felt. But like, I'm, I'm curious, like if, if, if you want to kick it off with, kind of your feeling from the space after so many years of not going to this. What did you think of the show, like at a macro level? We'll get to watch his, we have a big list, so we'll get to watch it shortly. It'll be a long episode. But I'm curious to take, you know, you remember what it was when it was, you know, the tail end of SIHH. You know, 2018, we still had Baselworld, so it was a different makeup altogether. |
| Jason Heaton | This, this still felt more like an SIHH to me than, than a Baselworld. Um, despite the many more brands, which, which would be the most Bosley kind of part of it. Cause Baselworlds just was so much bigger than SIHH ever was. And, and so the fact that there were more brands made it, um, more interesting cause you, you had smaller brands, uh, in kind of different spaces, but the overall vibe still felt like, like SIHH with the big, the big players, you know, the paddocks and the tutors and the Rolexes. with those Baselworld-esque booths kind of plunked down right in the middle of it. So, um, a little bit of dissonance there seeing, you know, Rolex's booth in the Pellexpo, but other than that, you know, same kind of vibe, same, maybe slightly less, I wouldn't say formal, but, um, less dressy, I guess would be the way I'd put it. And, and kind of a different crowd. I'm starting to feel like, you know, we're, we're now members of an older generation or an older old guard, if you will, of, of watch writers that are attending these shows. And I just see a lot of different, new people there, a lot more video. I'm seeing a lot more like people standing in front of booths with cameras and lights. Um, and which I'm sure you've seen over the past couple of years, but having not been back for awhile, you know, it's different than it used to be. Um, people in meetings that aren't necessarily even, you know, watch writers, if you will, they're call them influencers or, you know, YouTube video, um, personalities, things like that. So in that respect, it was a little different, but you know, The vibe kind of felt the same. I mean, it's a luxury event and that's the way you feel when you're there. The, the, um, the little restaurant off the press room was, was really nice. They had some, some good lunches there. And, uh, I thought it was, it was pretty well organized. I heard there had been some teething problems in the past couple of years in terms of getting in and out and security and bag checks and all that. |
| James Stacey | Security was significantly better this year. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Felt, um, felt pretty smooth. The huge lineups weren't there. Yeah. All that kind of stuff. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, overall a really smooth, pleasant experience. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I didn't get a chance to eat anything at the show. Didn't take any lunches or that kind of thing. We had too much going on. That's how that went. But yeah, I thought the show felt almost identical to last year, but I would say that the, if you'll allow me the term, like the stoke, the excitement level around the show was much lower than last year. |
| Jason Heaton | Because of expectations about certain watches that people were expecting? |
| James Stacey | I think last year was just like a hype year. you know, the, the, the market was in a different place last year in terms of the attention to watches and that sort of thing, attention on watches. And I think on top of that, we had unexpected Rolex that you could really write about or talk about. Oh yeah. Balloons on the dial, weird emoji, day dates, like all this kind of stuff. And this year was, I would say not like for, for me, I think it was a, uh, an equal year for watches. I I'm going to think about and like, but I think that for the general crowd, especially for the crowd that wants big, major releases that break out of the niche world of watches, it wasn't there this year. Oh, sure. Yeah. We just didn't have the stuff that major non-watch outlets are going to really be pontificating upon. It felt like more of a building year. I spoke with several people where if you think about it, like in the last few years, watch brands haven't had that tough of a time selling product as long as it fit a few molds, right? Let's think of something like integrated bracelet steel sports watches. But if all of those people, if all those brands have sold to all the people who are willing to buy very quickly and operate on like more of a hype cycle, what's left is going to be refinement and finding the audience that's patient. And I think this is a patient year. That's the way I see it. Yeah. But yeah, I agree. It was good to be back. It was busy. To be clear, it's the kind of fun where I'm pretty thrilled that it's over. Oh, yeah. There's a certain type of fun like that, right? I had a good time. It was there, but I am happy. Since January, this has been a major part of my day to day, was getting the team there, getting the things aligned, making sure we had the certain pieces of content and all that kind of stuff. And now that's behind me, and it means that cottage season is ahead of us. And I got back and I just did all the things I could. I built a grill, I went on a bike ride, I felt the sun on my face. I'm feeling good to have it. I'm glad that we did it and that we got there. I'm glad that I got to see you for 35 seconds. And then now we've got other stuff to look forward to. Certainly, I had several conversations about the Toronto Timepiece Show, which it's been on my radar for a year, essentially, the better part of, but it's actually coming up in September. So we've got some kind of fun stuff about that in the works. And yeah, I'm thrilled that we did it, but I'm also thrilled that it's like, that this workload is now behind us and we can go back to focusing on like watches and coverage of watches and that kind of thing. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Call it type two fun, right? I think that's what they refer to this sort of thing. It's painful while you're doing it. You look back fondly when it's over. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | It is a little bit of a mountain climb or a competition in some ways. And that way you, yeah, you do your best and then you keep going. We've got a ton of watches to, to kick off. Um, where would you like to, where would you like to start? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I mean, I think rather than do, you know, kind of a grocery list of, or laundry list or whatever you want to call it, of, of just go through the brands. Let's just talk about watches that, that really caught captured us and like really, we really liked. Um, and for me, this, this felt like I realized that all the watches that I was really drawn to, or most of the watches I was drawn to, um, had some element of, of color to them. And I think I'd start with, um, if you don't mind, let's start at the end of the alphabet with, with Zenith, you know, they, they came out with, um, with these two dive watches, which I was very excited about because I feel like I've been waiting for years for Zenith to, to return to a dive watch. That was such a gaping hole in their, in their lineup. And finally we, we got the defy revival and the defy extreme and, you know, both pack a lot of color kind of interesting shapes. One of which is, you know, the almost a one to one, recreation of an old watch from them right down to the 37 millimeter size, and that's the Revival A3648. Assuming you saw these in person, I mean, what do you think? These are wild. These are cool watches. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I genuinely really, really, really like both. Yeah, me too. The Defy, the A3648 is like an almost laser. I mean, think about what Doxa did in 2017 with the sub 350th anniversary. This, while not being an anniversary, this watch came out in 1969. This is essentially a laser, as close as they felt comfortable to do, 37 millimeter recreation of this watch. It's orange on orange on black. It's really fun. The other side is, and I think this is smart, I like Zenith coming at this with a vintage watch, a vintage effect watch like this 36, 48. But at the same time, recognizing, I think, probably wisely, I think Zenith's leadership is pretty solid these days, but I think they realize quite wisely that they're a little late to the vintage effect party, like by a decade. Yeah. So at the same time that they did that, they released the new Defy Extreme Diver, which is a very modern, larger, big spec dive watch. And to be honest, I enjoyed both. Yeah. I played around with the different straps on the modern one. And on a nice rubber strap, I really enjoyed it. It kind of gave me Planet Ocean vibes in a way that I really liked. Look, the one thing, and I promise we're not gonna spend this entire thing complaining about pricing, but we are starting with Zenith, and I think Zenith has a price point that's established by high beat rate automatic chronographs, like the El Primero stuff. and it's difficult when they make a different sort of product to decide how to price it. I'm going to preface with that. Yeah. But these are both very expensive. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. $7,700 for the, the vintage effect of the 3648 is a lot. I don't know that there's, I'm not saying that a Zenith isn't worth it or that, that Zenith is a brand where you put Zenith on the dial and you can't claim it. And I really liked the watch. So everything checks out. But you can get pretty good, not comparable in quality to a Zenith, to be fair, but you can get a pretty great vintage effect diver for about a grand. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. All day long. Actually, we could just listen to the show. We've probably listed 50 or more over the past year. So I think that's one element that I was kind of surprised by the price. But I also, at the same time, don't really know that Zenith could just say it was $3,500 and it would make sense to people. right? Like they still exist in a certain space. Yeah. And then when you get to the, um, the defy extreme. Yeah. So this is again, now we're looking at 11,300, which is, let's be clear. That's a lot of money. Yeah. This uses an L premier derived movement. So that makes more sense. It's five Hertz, 60 hours. Um, I love the mix of loom. I really did. Like if you skipped these, these two watches, please go to the show notes because the photos are very important. |
| Unknown | Mm. |
| James Stacey | But what did you... I think it's easy to understand Zenith recreating something from 1969. Jason, I'm assuming you spent five or 10 minutes with the Defy Extreme, which is a 42.5 millimeter, 600 meter dive watch with a kind of vintage style bezel, but it's on a very modern case. I really liked it. Yeah. It felt like kind of something I hadn't seen before. And it's almost like they made a Defy Skyline diver in some way. I dig it. I definitely am gonna ask them to loan me one. I would love to take one diving and get some pretty pictures of it underwater, that sort of thing. Yeah. What did you think of this? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I really liked it. In fact, I guess if someone just said, you gotta pick one of these two, I'd probably go against what most probably of our audience would pick. And I realized the charm of the vintage style one, but there's something really fresh about the extreme that really caught me. I'd go with the new one. Yeah, me too. It just feels like Um, it was a watch that was wholly unexpected. Um, I, you know, I thought we've talked before about Zenith and how we wish they would bring back a diver and we've talked about, um, you know, they've done like rainbow divers. They've done, I can't remember the one that you always liked. I'm kind of a slimmer, kind of a little more modest, more elite. Yeah. You know, they've had some, some divers in their past that have been cool, but I liked that they kind of swung for the fences with, with, with both of these. And, and this big one just felt like their version of, like you said, a planet ocean, I'll |
| James Stacey | This felt like a brand that makes a really good watch, like Zenith. We all know this. They're expensive, sure, sure, whatever. We'll get to all the other brands you can think of. I'm sure we'll forget some. We'll get to most of the brands that you could think of in this episode. But yeah, I was just pretty excited by this. I think the helium escape valve, if you're gonna market a watch as extreme, I think our opinions on helium escape valves are very well known. Silly, useless, the rest of it, but it does kind of suit on this watch, right? Yeah. You build a certain type of car, you put a giant spoiler on it, even if it's not adding to the aerodynamic properties. I like this watch quite a bit. It was probably like in the range of things at this price point, something I found genuinely exciting. I like it quite a bit. Yeah, yeah. And I would agree over the Defy, which feels very much like a playbook or a play from a book over the last decade. This feels like today. Yeah, I think that's a fun place to start because there's two watches I was not expecting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Where do we go from here? What's next? |
| James Stacey | We kind of kick things off with stuff on a little bit on the higher side of the sort of walled garden of TGN's price point. You want to hit Tudor for a few minutes? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I think that's a good place. I mean, everybody's always curious, probably the most curious, at least among our friends and and listeners what Tudor's going to do every year. So where do we go? They had kind of two big releases. Let's start with the... You want to do the Black Bay Black? The Black Bay, what we're calling the... Yeah, the Black Bay Black, the monochrome, whatever we're going to refer to it as. But this is kind of down the middle, new Black Bay Diver. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I mean, I'm a little bit of a broken record in that it seems like a lot of Tudor's current methodology is to encapsulate some of the charm of five-digit Rolex models, but do it in a Tudor-y sort of way. And certainly we saw the Black Bay 41 in burgundy last year, go to Metis, get the T-fit, you know, slight refinement of things like the bezel and the lugs and bracelet options. And now that's on arguably their most conventional, down the middle, crowd-pleasing option, which is what people seem to be calling the monochrome, but it's the new Tudor Black Bay in black. So black bezel, black dial, no date. You've got rubber, two bracelet options. I think that while this may not be like a big enough deal to capture the hearts and minds of everybody at Watches and Wonders 24. Certainly for us Tudor nerds, it means something. I do believe that as you and I and the rest of us go hang out with people over the next couple of years, this is going to be a major watch that we see people have, just because it's so... Right down the middle, I don't really know a better... It's such a conventional option that we know works. It's essentially their 1406OM. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's the, it's the watch I'm wearing today as, as we talked about earlier during the risk check. Um, and as I scroll down and look at the pricing of the one on the oyster bracelet, which is the closest to what I'm wearing, my old Rolex, it's, I think it's almost exactly the same price that I paid for the Submariner in 2010. And, and it brings to mind a conversation that I had with our friend, Steven Pulverin, who I got to spend a fair bit of time with last week, thankfully, cause it's I hadn't seen him in a long time and it's always a pleasure. Um, and Steven and I were talking about how this is kind of the watch that, you know, a generation of people that kind of missed out on kind of the, the golden age of being able to kind of aspire to and own, you know, a steel Rolex sports watch, specifically a Submariner and wear it all the time doing whatever they wanted with it. This is that watch now. And I'm so happy it exists because It is, it has that capability. It's, you know, chronometer certified, it's, uh, you know, anti-magnetic, it's very capable. It's modern materials. It's got a great clasp, looks good, goes with anything. And, uh, yeah, this is that watch. I don't know that we need to dwell on it much because it is, it is not a brand new watch, but it's, it's kind of an important piece that it kind of fills that, that niche for them. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And I think what's noteworthy will also tie us into the second Tudor announcement in the BB 58 GMT. is that the option here, if you keep in mind all of the Tudor black bays that we've had, it is common that the black model has gilt coloring. We saw it on the 58. We saw it on the early examples of the 41s. They opted not to go that route with this. And I think it really seals it as it's going to sit right at the core. There's no weirdness. There's nothing here that's going to divide a crowd all that heavily. I just think that this is a hit and it's going to work out. I don't want one. I don't think it's not one that I want more than, say, my Pelagos. I'm very much like that's the top of the heat for me. It's the one I have. I also couldn't see you dropping your Pelagos for this, but for someone who likes the size and they've refined the size over the last couple of years, it's still the same width, but it's a little thinner, that sort of thing, like we saw with the Burgundy last year. I think this is just a pure core tutor. Is it super interesting? Maybe not. Is it probably the type of watch that most people are gonna buy and really enjoy? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. It's good stuff. Yeah. And we bring it to the other one. Yeah. Tell us about that one. Which is the new... Yeah, Tudor Black Bay 58 GMT. Didn't see this one coming. Obviously, we didn't talk about it on our preview episode. I genuinely thought that we could see more GMT from the brand, but I'm surprised by several elements of this. This is essentially Tudor's push towards a a 16710, it's a 39 millimeter GMT, uses a brand new movement, which is much more, which has more anti-magnetic properties. So you'll see the little U dash U amending the four digit movement code. And I, you know, I'm, I'm just, I really like this and I think it's a great signal, but the thing I made pretty clear in my hands on is like the guilt is going to be something that people either like or not like. I love the coat coloring, the black red, I love the new sizing. I love how thin it is. It's less than a millimeter thicker than a standard 58, which I think is super smart. And if I didn't have the Pelagos, I would definitely be looking into this. But if you don't get what you want from Tudor, you do just have to wait typically. Like some people might have waited from last year. They didn't want the burgundy, but they wanted all the updates to the 41 and they get it now in this new monochrome. And I think we're seeing a bit of that with this where the launch version has little bit of extra spice to it. In this case, that's a gilt coloring for the bezel and the markers, the hands, that sort of thing. So full gold kind of tone to the coloring. But otherwise, if you've been around a 58, which, you know, a beloved watch of the last several years since 2018, which is also when they launched the original Black Bay GMT. If you've been around a 58, you're going to understand this. And the thing I find most surprising is what does this do to the normal one? |
| Jason Heaton | I was just going to ask you that. What do you think? I mean, it kind of steals the thunder. |
| James Stacey | I think it makes it almost irrelevant. I think so too. Yeah. It's so much thinner. Yeah. Yeah. Like even if you wanted the larger size, like the 41, the standard Black Bay GMT, since it came out, when it came out, it was kind of a normal big. Yeah. But with the 58 coming out and with, you know, with other stuff like that, like it, it feels larger than it did in 2018. And that's because, you know, things change and, and preferences and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, I think this in some ways makes the larger model irrelevant, at least to a certain type of buyer. Like I think folks listening to TGN, niche watch nerds, that sort of thing, like maybe to a wider audience, the fact that the larger, the original model has more versions. Obviously, you've got a Pepsi begin with the white dial from last year, the root beer version. There are more options. At this point, if I was on the fence, let's say I'd been holding off on watches and wonders because I wanted to see if they would release something that might change my mind about buying the larger GMT, the standard, I think your mind's changed. And if it's not, you're probably thinking like, well, but if I wait another X number of months, a year, maybe they do a version that's like blue, maybe they do all black, who knows, right? I think all things told, the conversation seems to be around people deciding if they like the gilt or not. For me, I'm just thrilled that this watch exists because almost any other version of this watch would be something I would very much be considering like, what do I sell to make this work? I just love it. I also love the idea that this movement could go in Pelagos, could go in other watches. We could see this movement drop into a new version of the BB Pro and it could be thinner conceivably. It seems like they're more than capable of making it that way with the thickness of this model. This is the watch for me that I think It's subtle because in some ways it doesn't feel that unexpected, but I think one, it is surprising in the Tudor vacuum because of what it says about the larger model, which is just that much... It feels that much more 2018 now. Yeah, yeah. But also just what it says about the brand in general. This is largely them listening to their customer base, finding ways to iterate within the space. And there always seems to be this push and shove in the comments about whether or not they do something because of Rolex. I kind of get the feeling that they don't, that's not necessarily how the plan goes. They just kind of pick something and try it and see where it lands. And if it works, they seem to iterate upon it like they did with the 58. So maybe, maybe we won't see another version for a while. Maybe we'll see more versions quickly. I, that part, I definitely don't know, but I don't see from a technical standpoint, from a spec standpoint, from a model range standpoint, how this is anything other than like a plus for anyone who wanted to buy a tutor GMT at some point in the future. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I agree with everything you said. And I think, you know, the one thing I'm always struck by with Tudor is that they kind of just do things with a confidence and almost a relaxed ease when, you know, you show up there and they're just kind of have this wry smile on their face. And it's like, here's our new stuff and we know people are going to like it. And we've been listening and they have such a different type of vibe and audience than, than Rolex does. And, and, and well, they should, I mean, it's, it is a different brand, certainly. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | I mean, entirely different brand this year. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And the Delta between Rolex and Tudor was remarkable. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Let's, let's use that to segue. I mean, I think the, you know, the big one at, at Rolex, of course, was the, the full gold, uh, deep sea, which was a substantially new watch in, in a few different respects. Um, and certainly well outside of, of the usual kind of TGN wheelhouse and budget in terms of, you know, the cost and kind of the look and that sort of thing. But it was a watch that was hard to not be impressed by. Right. I mean, Certainly not something I would personally wear, but what a brick, what an impressive piece, right? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I think it's just one of these things like the brand can do crazy, but they do it a few different ways. Like obviously last year, Celebration Dials and Emoji Stuff and all that. And then this year they come up with this thing and it's this like... I got different numbers, 320, 360, it's a lot of grams, regardless of how you wanna cut it. Especially the year after they do RLX on a giant dive watch or... RLX on a Yacht Master and that sort of thing. And this is a $50,000 solid gold dive watch with a blue dial. It's that classic gold take on a sub applied to this huge watch. I think it's really funny. Yeah. I saw it in person and I genuinely like it. It's cool. On the right person, it'd be an exceedingly cool watch. It's not for me, of course. No. Yeah. But this is also... Keep in mind, this is a year where Rolex released one steel watch, and it's a different color way of GMT Master. Yeah. So there's not a ton here for TGN, for like the TGN envelope, but this thing's kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | It's silly, but it's cool. Yeah. Fun to try on, brought a smile to my face. And the fact that Rolex, I would love to be sitting in that meeting where they're discussing, you know, the next new watch and like this comes up, like why this, you know, it's just, it's bonkers. I guess we don't need to go into too much detail. I mean, they did something, they've got a titanium case back. They had a new, Ring lock system, the blue dial, they got rid of the Sea Dweller name from the dial. Now it's just called the Deep Sea. But other than that, the talking point here is it's over 300 grams of solid yellow gold, which is pretty wild. |
| James Stacey | It's fun. It's silly. Is it something we're telling you to go out and buy or pay a lot of attention to? Probably not. But it's a very Rolex thing, I think. Right, right. |
| Jason Heaton | If we're moving on, I did not take a meeting with Tag Heuer, but you have on the list a new Panda version of the Carrera, the glass box. Tell us about that one. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I was at a Grand Seiko meeting when the Hodinkee team took their Tag Heuer meeting, so I didn't get to see this watch in person, but I've spent a bunch of time with glass box derived models. I really like the solid gold one that Gosling is wearing around. It's very cool, kind of 1158CH vibes from that. The blue model's great. I was part of the launch coverage for the Skipper era that they came out with not too long ago. I just wanted to mention it because I think this is core product that is interesting. If you want a great chronograph from a brand with a strong automotive and chronograph background that also looks good and wears well, I think it's their best commercial product in a very long time. Any glass box, you pick the color. Yeah, the blue one is just excellent. And I think this panda dial, it just, I saw it and I was like, Oh, that makes sense. Why did this watch ever leave their lineup? Right, right. Like, don't get me wrong. They also announced like $135,000 plus Monaco split seconds, which from a technical standpoint, I'm glad we're back at a version of Tag Heuer that does the crazy thing. Because we used to have the V4s, the Phantoms, the Micrographs, there was like an era of tag back in the Baselworld days that was a little bit more interesting than we had the last few years as they kind of rebuilt various lines. And I think they've got some really nice stuff with the solar graph and now the glass box. And I just wanted to highlight it. I didn't get a chance to go hands on. I've spent a bunch of time with the glass box otherwise. But I do think that Panda, kind of in the same way as the Black Bay Monochrome, is just a model that makes sense for the lineup. and really leverages all the good things that they're up to at the time. That's probably all I've got to say about Tank. It's a brand I can be very hard on, but I like this watch quite a bit. |
| Jason Heaton | I do too. I think my only quibble with it, and it'd be easily solved, is I'm not a huge fan of it on a bracelet. I always feel like a Carrera is made for a perforated leather strap, but the dial coloring, it certainly looks good in this configuration. So yeah, cool. All right, I'm going to jump in here with with something that kind of, you know, somebody asked me at some point, I think it was day two while it was there. And somebody said, what, you know, what has made you smile? What's, what's making you happy at the show? And you know what it was, I went to, uh, Nomos and they've got the, the Tangente, uh, it's kind of a celebration year for them. They're celebrating 175 years of Glashutte watchmaking. Um, and what they did for this was they took their, their Tangente, kind of their most kind of Bauhaus recognizable piece. And they came out with 31 different color combos of that watch, um, with some wild names. And, and, and it was just fun. It was just pure fun. Like there's nothing groundbreaking about this watch that we haven't seen before. I mean, certainly Nomos is a great watchmaker and they've got plenty of chops to fall back on, but this year was all about the color and they did not make any, you know, argument otherwise. I mean, it was like, this is it. This is, we're just doing fun this year. And, It was just a blast. I mean, they had them all splayed out on this table, like this long table, did a short presentation. And then we all got to kind of strap on these watches and take a look at them. And it was just pure fun. I think Nomos has this way of, of being very Teutonic, very, you know, Bauhaus, very German, but then all playful at the same time, the people are playful and fun. Um, and, and the watches like this one are just, uh, just cool. And, and I had a lot of fun trying these on and kind of, know, picking out some, some favorites, um, it would be a tough choice. Uh, and, and what was neat about it was that they decided that they would actually make them less expensive. They would lower the price by $175 than the regular Tangente 38 date, which was kind of a neat move. Um, uh, and you know, again, these are, these are $2,300 watches with, you know, with fully in-house movements, uh, their own escapement. uh and then and then all these amazing colorways yeah great size albeit very long and and kind of sharp lugs so you know if you've got a smaller wrist these might not work for you but uh just a neat move from them i really really enjoyed that meeting and i i really like these watches yeah sadly i wasn't able to make the no most meetings so i didn't get to see these in person but the the everybody i spoke to was like oh there's at least six in the 31 colors that are great yeah like depending on you like whatever tones you like they really went |
| James Stacey | went all out. Yeah. And I think the watch looks great. I love the photos. I love the different color versions. I don't know how you would pick either, especially if you didn't get to see all 31, but it's my understanding, you know, they've, uh, the, the retailer response to these is very high. I love, I love any brand that's willing to go. We don't have to raise our prices right now. Right. Right. We don't have to. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, and keep things a little bit on the, on the more reasonable size. We have another brand that, that offered an more inexpensive watch in a ton of colors as well, which we'll get to in a moment. Yeah. I always love to see Nomos back. It's also just really nice to see them at a fair again. They used to be one of the best meetings at Baselworld. Definitely. And they were just normal watch loving people. They had good coffee. They had good space to take photos. It was like a nice meeting. They always have interesting stuff. And this year I think doubling down on the thing that works and doing a bunch of these crazy colors is a fun solution to rather than bringing out a brand new model, which may or may not work. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's kind of fun. I dig it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And if you'll allow me, I'm going to jump in on the followup to this as well with another end brand. And it's a brand that I hadn't had zero exposure to in the past, but it really woke me up and I had a blast and another fun brand. And that is Norkane. Oh, nice. You know, Norkane is a brand that kind of came out of nowhere a few years ago and they've, they've had the backing of Jean-Claude Biver. And it's kind of a family run smaller business. That's just kind of had this almost vertical trajectory in terms of exposure and I went to this meeting and I bumped into two guys that are both TGN listeners that are now working for the brand in the U S Charlie and Tyler. It was great to meet you both. If you're listening, uh, super fun. Their booth was very, it felt like walking to an REI store. They had, you know, rock walls and they had the, the, the, the, the people that were walking around there had puffy vests on and climbing harnesses with carabiners slung over their shoulders. And, and they're kind of the booths where they were taking individual meetings with retailers looked like base camp dome tents. So it was just a fun place to be anyway. It felt very TGN. You know, Norkane has a number of, of kind of more conventional looking watches. The, the freedom in particular, it's a fine looking watch, but, but you know, not unlike much of the watches that we've seen from other brands, but the wild one was the one that was a bit of a revelation for me because it's this watch that is, you know, it's a 42 millimeter sports watch with a composite case, um, a Kinesi movement. semi-skeletonized dials, um, worn by, you know, tennis players and free skiers and mountain climbers and things. So it almost feels like a budget version, if you can call it that affordable version, let's put it that way of something like the vibe that you get from a Richard meal. Like they, they kind of want to be into sports and extreme sports and outdoor stuff, um, while doing kind of interesting stuff horologically. And while the wild one was not the new watch, It's been around for a couple of years. What they introduced this year was called the Wild One of One, which is a watch. It is the Wild One that you can then configure in terms of color, engravings, hand color, dial style. You can even pick the movement that you want in it. And just a super fresh, kind of youthful, sporty, comfortable watch. Like this is a watch that when I strapped it on my wrist, it weighs nothing. The strap is very supple and comfortable. And I think combined with the overall vibe of the brand, it's like a watch that you'd want to strap on and like go skiing or running or something with. It's just a fun meeting to take and a fun brand to kind of get some exposure to. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I didn't get a chance to see them at the show, but you had mentioned that you thought this was fairly impressive. So I went back and read a bunch about it. And so, yeah, it uses essentially like their version of like a carbon fiber material of some sort. And it's called Nortec, six times lighter than steel, 3.5 times lighter than titanium. Yeah, I mean, it's a 42 millimeter watch, 12.3 millimeters thick, has a special design for anti-shock, anti-magnetism, just like a kind of high-tech, modern take on a sports watch in the price point of a Pelagos. Not a bad looking thing at all. And I love the idea that if you're going to spend that kind of money, you could actually like customize it because of course, most of the other brands that really hit this price point don't offer much more than bracelet or rubber, right? Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And then earlier I had mentioned, you know, kind of how some brands were taking this as more of like a refinement rather than maybe launching brand new or, or kind of more elaborate, um, kind of options like what we just talked about with Norcane. And, and the other one that really went through a refinement, almost to the extent where like, I think you'd have to hold both, but it's a series of, of kind of subtle refinements is Oris with the Aquas. Yeah. Yeah. So we've got kind of a 2024 line in the sand for the Aquas. which includes things like micro adjusting, quick release on the bracelet, different sizes, the up cycle continues into the new sizes. I got to spend some time with these when I was with Oris earlier in the year in New York, is where they kind of showed this to the press. And as far as the Aquus goes, it is a subtle refinement, but they've kind of rethought or at least retouched on every point of the watch, whether it's things like the bezel finish, the scale, the font on the dial, now we have dial color matched dates across the range. They're gonna continue offering both like a Salida derived, I believe it's Salida, my apologies if it's not, but I believe it's a Salida derived, the 733 automatic from Aorus or the 400 caliber series stuff. I think again, if you bought an Aquus six months ago, you're probably not feeling terrible about the... Because it's a bunch of small refinements. But if you're in line for it, especially for me, I just think if you're buying a modern sports watch on a bracelet, it's gotta have tool-less micro adjust. I think it's like... Yeah. It just makes so much sense to have it. Everybody's doing it different ways. Right. And I think the AORUS is a good solution. I'm just happy to see them continue to push the Aquus and have it function as the home. The brand has, in many ways, their kind of dive attention has gone to the 65 for years and years. And I think the Aquus remains a pretty, pretty great model, 36.5, 41.5, 43.5. And now with these refinements along things like case and, um, uh, you know, these, these kind of smaller details, I think just kind of reestablish what they offer at that price point. And, um, we also saw some stuff from them that doesn't come out yet. And I don't love teasers, but, uh, there's some cool stuff in the future for Morris for this year as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And I think, you know, the, the, the, The general kind of ethos of the brand always impresses me. And every year that I am exposed to them or get in touch with them, I'm even more impressed. I think, you know, what Rolf Studer, the CEO is doing at the company, he really is living or manifesting a philosophy of sustainability and kind of environmentalism in as much as he can do. And that comes down to things like the packaging. Like they showed me the box that I saw the new watches. It's awesome. Like you pull two strings, it falls flat. You can like throw it in the recycling, you know, every part of it, like the, the, the cushion that the watch wraps around, like it, it almost, and even the fact that, that they're doing subtle refinements to the watches that they don't necessarily feel like they need to reinvent something every single year, but they're going to make it better. It almost in a way, and I even mentioned it to them when I was there, it feels like what, you know, Patagonia had done a few years back with, with like an ad campaign where they said, don't buy this jacket. You know, it's like, if you don't need a new jacket, don't, don't buy this just for a different color or different, you know, like, like think, think twice before you, you just go out and spend money on yet another product. And I feel like Oris kind of feels the same way. And, you know, we used to do these, these ski trips every year out to Vail. Um, they haven't done that for the past few years. And I don't know specifically, but I'm guessing it's probably because like Rolf's probably thinking like it's a lot of, airplane miles and carbon burned and, you know, environmental impact on, on flying people around. Uh, we talked to Josh, um, who works for us in the U S and he was saying, they're very careful about, you know, superfluous trips that, that he might have to take somewhere in the country, whether it's actually needed or not. They think twice about this stuff. And that's worth mentioning. I think that's something that the brand is doing that is not specifically related to the watches, but it's important to know. |
| James Stacey | And they also have a sustainability report. Yeah. And I think that having a bunch of people go to Vail every year blew those numbers. So they stopped doing it. Yeah. Despite the fact that it probably means they got a little bit less press, right? Like it's a give and take and it is something... The box that they showed us, it's fabulous. Yeah. They should license this. Everybody should be doing it. Even if you're not throwing the box out, just having it where you're not, you don't feel like it's a giant block of wood and varnish and glue and fake leather. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Just having it be cardboard makes it feel a little bit easier to just put it on a shelf, right? Right In in this kind of setting. Yeah, I don't know I you know, we're big Oris fans and I wouldn't say that they had like any jaw-dropping release at the show, right? But I do think that these refinements and then on top of that with the the new packaging and that kind of stuff is noteworthy Yeah, and it's a it's an interesting methodology from a brand that really doesn't have to answer to anyone else Yeah, right. They're not part of a group It's just them. They can do things their own way, even if it's sometimes a little bit more difficult or a little bit more costly or a little bit less effective, like not being able to do press trips because of, uh, the carbon footprint associated with that kind of stuff. It's nice that at least somebody is paying attention to all of it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm trying to think of what else we've got here on the list. I very, you know, I got to see grand Seiko, but I don't think that they had any product that falls like directly into our scope. But I will say that if you're a fan of hand wound grand Seikos, um, I don't believe that the new SLGW is getting the attention that it maybe deserves. We've written a couple of stories. I think that especially if you go to a Grand Seiko retailer and put this on your wrist, it's thin and feels really special. I'll put them in the show notes. Check those out if you're kind of keen on a dressier, hand-wound sort of Grand Seiko move. We also had the chronograph, the GMT chrono. with the color changing dial. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | I don't, I don't know if you've got a chance to see this, but I've never seen a dial like that. |
| Jason Heaton | Kind of that red tone spring drive. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. It goes from red to orange, to Brown, to purple, to yellow, all based on the angle. Yeah. And you know, there's so much going on with that dial. It's a chronograph, it's a GMT, it's got all this stuff. And I mean, imagine seeing them take that same sort of process for making the dial capable of doing all the color changing. and putting it on like something dressy, I think would be kind of a fun, like imagine an SPGW at 37, 38 millimeters with that dial, I think could be pretty fun. So we'll see where they go with that kind of stuff. But I guess the other, the other one to talk about was probably one of the biggest talking points in the TGN slack. Yeah. And that's Braymont. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Talk about an elephant in the room. I think, you know, it was the most, the most talked about brand of the show in terms of anecdotally, what I was hearing as I was walking through the hall and I think Rightly so. I mean, and especially people asking us, I mean, I think we'd be remiss to not lend our feelings about it on this show because I know people are probably waiting to hear what we thought about it. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And I think we should definitely share what we thought, but I do want to make a few things clear. One, typically when we don't like something a brand does or a brand in general, we just don't talk about them. We don't spend a lot of time. I don't love the idea of like just being part of a negative feedback loop. If you can help a brand by offering some constructive criticism, I think that's fine. you know, the other thing I would highlight is, is, you know, it's easy to look at the, the changes from Bramont and only focus on the fact that it feels like a bit of a line in the sand. We also have to consider that, like, you know, they probably have a, we're going to hope that they have a plan and this is the first part. I have feedback. I would like to provide said feedback, all that kind of stuff. But I do think some of the like wider kind of doom and gloom is early. I'm not saying that's necessarily like dead wrong. I'm just saying it might be ahead of schedule. So, Jason, why don't you kick it off? You saw the stuff we've got. Essentially, the big launch is a new kind of field watch lineup called the Terra Nova. And then on top of that, we've got kind of a new take on the Supermarine. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I think, you know, there's, there's kind of two layers to, to talking about Braymont and what they're doing right now. And that is the watches that we saw, the new watches, supermarine Terranova. And then there's kind of the bigger picture of what they've done with the brand and kind of bringing in Davide Cirato to kind of oversee things. And what he's done was he's trying to put a stamp on things with, with not only some new watches, but you know, they've, they've refreshed the logo entirely. And, um, the branding is different. The booth didn't no longer has this sort of, British sort of clubby sort of leather chairs and old antiques kind of vibe. You know, no waving the union Jack around. This is, this is really kind of a new angle for, for the company. And that's going to be polarizing. And I think one criticism that I've heard is that they've done too much too soon. And I wouldn't disagree with that. I think, you know, maybe introducing a new logo is the first step and maybe a new watch, but then reinventing the supermarine might've been, a bridge too far for, for a lot of people, myself included, frankly. I mean, I, I, the supermarine has always been near and dear to me. It was my first Bremont. It's the one that I'm still the most keen on. And I, they just didn't speak to me. I think, you know, doing away with triptych cases, hardened steel, no more cost, et cetera. And the styling I think, um, was a bit of a disappointment for me. The Terra Nova on the other hand, the kind of the all new family. Perfectly fine watch. I think it's, I think it's, it's handsome. It's, it's a nice looking watch. Does it look to me like a Braymont? No. Um, for, for the, some of the things I mentioned earlier, I miss kind of the triptych case. I felt like that was such a trademark of Braymont and to do away with that was, I guess we'll see how that plays out. Um, this, this watch felt a bit more, I don't want to say generic, but I feel like if you put Longine or Hamilton even on the dial, Uh, I would not be surprised, um, to, to, to come from those brands either. It just felt a little less uniquely Bremont in those respects. So maybe just in general, just, just too much too soon to, you know, all at once, uh, would be my kind of big take on it. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. You know, I, I think from my standpoint, it's, it's difficult because I don't want to be the old man who like, can't accept change, but like Bremont is a core brand for my watch enthusiasm. I've owned a couple, they were there under the guidance of Mike Pearson and certainly the English brothers in the early days of when I was getting into watches. It was one of my first watch meetups, was a Bremont meetup in Toronto before I even went to Vancouver, before the show existed. And they have a soft spot in my heart, for sure. I've been a long standing fan, supporter of the brand, all that kind of stuff. I like their product, I don't like all of it. I think they made some stuff, the in-house stuff last year, where the price point was difficult. And then there was this kind of messaging sent out recently that there would be an adjustment of the price point, new models, that kind of stuff. And I think, one, the adjustment of the price point doesn't feel like enough to really move the needle. But even if it did, I do feel like these new updates don't necessarily speak to the same audience that previously loved Bremont, which is maybe the point. Maybe they just weren't selling any watches. Right, right. right? Yeah. Part of this is just going to be conjecture. I can give you my opinion, which is, um, I don't have a huge problem with the quality of like the new watches feel like watches, but they don't look or feel or hold like a Bremont. And I don't think that's necessarily because of any aspect of the new watches specifically. It's that they are, it's so different than what it was six months ago, like from a brand standpoint, even from what they released under the new leadership, in the S300 GMTs that came out, you know, when I was in Dubai or just before I was in Dubai. It just feels like such a huge twist that, you know, this is a brand that's always had a bit of a niche cult following, but has always been a bit divisive, right? It had its haters and it had its lovers. The Terra Nova is something new. The S300 is important, but has never been the core of Bremont's existence. In my mind, that's the MB and by extension, the Alt-1, the aviation stuff. That's what they, I think they built their reputation on. The MB is a genuinely unique and cool watch. The alt ones are these kind of gorgeous mid-century British-y sort of chronographs that then became these modern sports iterations in the ZT and all that kind of stuff. And I don't feel like being an old school fan of the brand or someone who's been around since, you know, their earlier years, we're talking 2007, 2008, it feels like they removed a lot of what made the brand appealing to the past audience. Yeah. And I guess the goal could be to foster a new audience. Like I said, for all I know, they weren't selling watches and it wasn't working out. So they had to make a big change. Right. And, and let's also keep in mind that like Davide Tirado, who now runs the brand, he came, he's also the guy behind things like the Black Bay to a certain extent. |
| Unknown | Right. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And what we saw from Mont Blanc in the last several years. And I think the Mont Blanc of it all kind of describes what's going on now. And look, I'm not crazy about the new stuff. I don't really get it. but it's not because of one main thing or because it's different. It's just none of it feels like a Bremont to me to some extent, and it's just probably partly because it's new, right? |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And also with the Terra Nova, I don't really understand, and I'll put this... I think I've talked about this before, I don't get compass bezels. I don't understand why you'd put them on any watch at all. Yeah. I understand it like connecting with a lifestyle element, like a compass if you're outside in the those watches would be better with an elapsed time or a 12 hour. Or really, I would say they would actually be better with almost any other bezel. I just don't really get the 12 hour. I asked about it and it connects to the storytelling and this kind of stuff. The watch still has to be a product in and of itself, disconnected from Jimmy Chan and the storytelling of the brand and this kind of stuff. And looking back, I came back and very quickly got my S302 out of the... My GMT out of the box. And that for me, was perfect. I love it. I love that watch. I have it. I enjoy it. I love the triptych case. Is triptych a gimmick? Sure. But it still made me happy. Is hardened steel something you have to have? No. Now they're on 904L, which is a step up from 316 for sure, but it's not like the rarest thing. I prefer hardened. It's a good part of what Zinn does as well. I think it's easy and the gut reaction is to go like, oh, this is... I don't, I don't see Braymont in this, but I think what we're just, it's just kind of a new Braymont and we'll have to see where that goes. I didn't have the necessarily the same visual reaction you did to the new three hundreds. I don't really get the logo. I kind of wish they kept the old dial again at any, they say any of this stuff. I just sound like a guy who can't deal with a new reference. You know what I mean? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I think, but I think we're not alone in that. I think there are the voices of the enthusiasts and then there are the voices of the retailers and new consumers. And I guess those are, in the end to the brand, that's who, who sadly, I guess, if you want to look at it that way, uh, is more important. I mean, they're, they're, they're a company, they're out to sell product. And if this is the direction they're going to go, then, um, you know, I will enjoy my, my kind of first generation or older, uh, Bramonts and, and wish them well. |
| James Stacey | I'm now much more curious about what comes in the next 12 months, because I wonder if they will adjust to some of the feedback they're hearing, or if they believe that this is the plan to get to an audience that works. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | assuming the old audience didn't, maybe it was just too many knuckleheads like you and I, Jason, who weren't buying eight Bremonts. We were buying one or two. Right. Right. Right. Over the, over the, the life cycle. I don't know. I don't, it's a brand we've talked about a lot over the years, so I didn't want to not talk about it. That'd be crazy. Um, but I, I, it's, I definitely can't say that like I'm wild about this or I'm right. I highly recommend if, if you can, if you have a Bremont retail, go see them in person. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | They are watches that are better in person, but they're still, I think, generic is fair. They have a Montblanc feeling to them, not surprising. This is all makes sense, right? I can't say that I agree with the loss of the Triptych, the hardened steel, the cask. All of this was stuff that gave Bremont a feeling that was just theirs. And now it feels like this new Bremont, this new methodology is much more conventional. And look, if that means the brand continues, then that is what it is. But like I said, I think where I'm at now is I'm feeling pretty mid on the stuff that we saw. I don't feel any specific way about it. I kind of lament the passing of some of the old DNA, if you will. Yeah. But I am very curious to see what they do with the stuff that I don't think you can... You don't have a lot of wiggle room to get the MB wrong. True. Or even an Alt-1C, you know what I mean? Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see where they go. And we were teased something that comes out in the fall, but it's not from either of those lineups. So yeah, I mean, you know, it was a big topic on the TGN Slack and it's definitely something we can address more. I don't think it needs more time of this episode just because this is brand new. Yeah. You know, it's a huge change that they've made, especially for Bremont fans. And, and I think, I think the deeper you are into the brand, the more you're feeling that change. And I feel like I'm feeling it quite a bit. And I don't want that to be the only thing that we kind of like talk about, or, or the only way we interface with something is like new is bad and old is good. There can be lots of good left, and certainly they've got a team that knows how to make a watch and sell a watch. I feel like the exact same product would hit different with a different brand name on the dial. You know what I mean? Like I think you have an expectation and a brand is what sets the expectation, and it's a very difficult thing to redo all the math on that expectation in the guise of brand new, very different product. I mean, this is essentially, it feels like from these two lines, two whole different brands. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And I think, you know, keeping the two, the two logos for the time being is, is feels a little bit dissonant. It feels like kind of a head scratcher. Um, you know, I was just in England a few weeks ago and kind of got a sneak peek on all this and, and they've kind of made a bit of a U-turn on the bringing watchmaking back to Britain with, you know, making their own movements in house. They've kind of changed that strategy. So like I said earlier, I mean, it's just, it's a lot to take in all at once. And I think just the moral of the story for me is, um, as, as an old, old time, Old timer, let's put it that way. I'm kind of an old fan of, of the original Bremont and having come up with them in my own career, like you for, for so many years, I guess I'll be watching from a slightly further distance than before. I think I was at the brand was very close to my heart. I think I will continue to watch them and observe maybe from a greater distance than I was before. And I will be curious to see where they go. So, yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I don't think this is necessarily the show to pick every net. I think we could go through each model and kind of talk about what we do and don't like, and maybe that comes in the future. Yeah. They might want to try and refine the feel of what Braymont is and include maybe a little bit more of the previous with the mix moving forward. Like you said, it's just a big change. So yeah. Yeah. But with that in mind, I think that pretty much covers what we had that was showing loosely at the show proper. Yeah. For those of you who don't follow so closely into the minutia, and I'm not sure why you would unless you were booking meetings for the space, you have Pal Expo, which is a huge exhibition place in Geneva by the airport where they do the car show and all sorts of these large corporate activations. But because there's so much attention, you have several other brands that set up in hotels nearby in Geneva or In the last couple of years, we also have an entire additional show called Time to Watches, which is at a design college sort of space, just a few minutes away, like maybe a 15-minute drive tops from Pal Expo. I mean, depending on the traffic. So we had these kind of ones. And Time to Watches is where you find brands like Marathon and Zin. And then a lot of these other brands are showing at hotels like the Beau Ravage. And at the Beau Ravage, we had all sorts of brands, including some faves like Doxa. Jason, for this, where do you want to kick off? You want to start at Time to Watches and we'll finish on Beau Ravage stuff? |
| Jason Heaton | Sure. Let's do that. Yeah. I only took two meetings at Time to Watches with Marathon and Zinn. Same. And yeah, it was a fun show. It felt a bit like a palate cleanser after coming from the Pell Expo. You know, I took a, I caught a tuk-tuk, you know, like one of these little Trishaw vehicles like you see in Thailand or Sri Lanka or India, whatever. They had these going back and forth between kind of the Beau Ravage in Geneva proper out to the time to watch his show and hopped that. It was kind of fun to get there in an open air on a beautiful day and then go. And it was a much more relaxed show. It felt a bit more like wind up and it was fun to meet with Marathon and Zinn. I had never met with Marathon. Of course, I'd met with Zinn when they had a different, a different guy who was working in PR, but I was most curious to see that U50 Hydro and it didn't disappoint. It was, it's a really neat watch. Very, very German, very Zinn. |
| James Stacey | Absolutely, yeah. I mean, the Zen stuff, there wasn't a lot in the way of surprises. Right. I think we had seen some of these. The U50, I think, is awesome. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense in a hydro. It's a nice size. If you want... If you're just going for specs, you're not worried about what movement versus this or that. There is something very special about a hydro, just because you get the added nerdery. Sure, you're giving up on a mechanical, but you get a great quartz movement, and then the oil-filled, you get that crazy angle of visibility. The dial doesn't look real. Yeah. I always have a really nice time at the Zen meeting. I was hoping that they had a couple more big surprises, but I can also understand if that's something that the brand is at the point where they would like to run those surprises all on their own and not have to compete with the show traffic and all that kind of stuff. They also have this rather lovely 103STTYHD, which is a hand wound chronograph with a really beautiful sort of champagne, red, black colorway. You got a chance to see this as well, Jason, on the green sort of leather. |
| Unknown | Yeah, yeah. |
| James Stacey | I thought of you when I saw it. It feels a bit like a dive chronograph. It's not, to be fair. Yeah. But it has sort of the feel. And then with the black bezel and the steel case, I was like, oh, this felt like something that you'd be kind of keyed in on. Oh, totally. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Love that piece. And it is kind of refreshing to go to a brand where they say, here's our two watches, you know? or three. I mean, they had the loom dial, uh, you 50 as well, which was, uh, which is also amazing for fun. Um, but yeah, between that one Oh three chronograph, uh, which is a thousand piece limited edition. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, just, you know, just, you know, it looked to be clear. It is another one Oh three, but it felt kind of special one. You remember the, the sort of, um, flyback chronographs they did a few years ago back at Baselworld. Yeah. It felt like something in sort of that lineage. Those are watches you and I both really, really liked with the tan and the red coloring and that kind of thing. Look, I think anything this brand wants to do in the 50 sizing, whether it's a T, a U, a Hydro, whatever, I'm on board. Yeah. It's a great sized watch. Last year, I would say that the T50 is probably in my easy, my top three of the show. I just absolutely adore it. And they didn't necessarily hit that tenor for me this year, but I love the magic, adding the hydro. I love the loom dial on the full black. And then the last thing, and I genuinely think they deserve some note for this. I'm not going to write a story about a bracelet, but I can definitely talk about it. They've redesigned their bracelet. And I think this means more to Zen and to Zen fans than other folks might realize. The bracelets have always been nicely made. Nobody's challenging that, but the ergonomics weren't always amazing. They felt quite bulky. They felt like you needed a bigger wrist than certainly mine. to give it a great home. And now they've got a new bracelet. I love that they kept the look similar. Very zen, right? They refined it a bunch. You've got microdust in there. It's a fully milled clasp. It feels very robust. Yeah, I think it's worth at least mentioning, again, yet another thing where we saw refinement of a known product to just try and keep customers happy, give them what they want. And I'm a fan of that as well. Did they show you the new bracelet? They did, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a good move for them. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was a good meeting. They, I, you know, just anecdotally, he, you know, the guy that I met with Marcus, he, he mentioned, you know, they, they do kind of lament the, the, the loss of Baselworld. They felt like a time to watch is that might not be the best fit for them in terms of traffic wise and kind of positioning. But for me, it was great. It was great to see them in person, visit with them again and see a couple of great, cool watches. |
| James Stacey | Did you notice, I forgot, I forgot to, I forgot to check. but did you notice, did they have the aquarium with the watches in it? I didn't see that. |
| Jason Heaton | In the booth, I didn't notice it this year. I didn't see that, no. |
| James Stacey | Because that used to be one of my faves in the Baselworld years, as they always said, they would have a couple of their novelties in an aquarium. Yeah. That speaks deeply to me. Yeah, yeah. Very old school. Always makes me happy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Speaking of things that should speak to me, like you said, we both only took two meetings, we probably should have done them together, didn't think that far ahead. You were there a day earlier, but after I saw Zan, I walked right around the corner in time to watch as to Marathon. I'm used to seeing Marathon here in Toronto. Arguably, I considered not even bothering to take a meeting, but I also just kind of like their team. I like to sit and chat for 30 minutes. So I sat down and kind of the major releases are these Jeep kind of adjacent models. So these collaborations they have with the automotive manufacturer Jeep, which of course is meaningful to me in some sense. What did you think of these from being a non-Jeep owner? Being a Land Rover guy. Yeah, right. So to be clear, it's two models. So they have the Willys, or if you pronounce it a different way, the Willys, and they do an officer's mechanical and a quartz version of that. That's like a field watch with a larger version of their sort of H-style case. It's like a new refinement of that case, this very kind of smooth field watch case. And then they've got a GSAR and a TSAR, both 41 millimeters. So GSAR is an automatic, a TSAR is a quartz, and these have kind of Jeep branding on the dial and the font and the coloring and everything is all kind of aligned. What did you, how did these hit you? |
| Jason Heaton | I mean, I, you know, I'm not a huge fan of car watch collaborations that are kind of on the nose with, with names on the dials. That said the watch itself, the, the, I guess what they were, what she was the woman that I met with was calling kind of an officer's watch or that field watch style I felt was actually quite impressive. And I think minus the Jeep name front and center on the dial. That's a watch that I quite enjoyed. I liked the kind of play with the typeface they use for the numerals. The coloring was really well considered and, and kind of the tie in between the two brands was, was better thought out say than, you know, Panerai and the Navy seals kind of thing. You know, I felt like having, um, you know, both were introduced in 1941, um the coloration um they were really kind of playing up the fact that you know these watches are are favored by you know paratroopers and soldiers and jeeps were originally dropped out of airplanes and and the it just it had a nice kind of overlap that said yeah not for me i'm not a fan of i think that the jeep typeface and logo kind of big on a dial is just not doesn't lend itself well to to a watch that said as you know Jeeps are hugely popular, and I can see these being very popular watches and well made at that. How about you as a Jeep owner? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, as a Jeep owner, I like these just fine. I would buy a version that doesn't have Jeep on the dial. Yeah. Huge marathon fan, I wear one quite frequently in the SS NavD that I've got, and I love... I've owned a TSAR in the past, but Weirdly, just like I don't really want a TSAR that has a maple leaf on the dial, just doesn't speak to me. I like the kind of... I like the one that's the most like what they might sell to a military outfit or the Coast Guard or whatever. Yeah. While the Jeep branding, I think, makes a ton of sense, and I'm gonna borrow them and kind of dig a little deeper into the connections between the brand, because I think there is some fun stuff there in their history. Yeah. I see this as an extension of what makes the TSAR and the GSAR great to begin with. And within that vibe, if this puts Marathon at Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Jeep, Yeah. There's some similarities there. Yeah. So I like that quite a bit. I think the rubber straps are excellent. I really like the officers on the leather. So yeah, I think it's like a niche thing for them to do, but it makes sense given that there's only so much they can do with the straight up lineup and its connection to military or government outfits. Yeah. And this gives you a cultural outfit that is very North American, the Jeep. Yeah. Right. And to be honest, I think I would feel identically if this was a Land Rover um, marathon or a Bronco marathon. The only difference being, I think Jeep makes more sense than both of those, which a lot of these weird collaborations don't make sense. At least this one does, whether or not I would sooner just have a standard T-star and absolutely wear it while driving my Jeep for sure. But I can see this really appealing to, to someone who's like more into the, maybe deeper into, into having Jeep things beyond the vehicle. |
| Jason Heaton | All this aside, it was so fun to meet with Marathon. Like you said, they're Oh, they're great people. Fun to sit in an appointment with like a North American accent and like just kind of chatting about like our kind of general region of the, of, of the continent. And, and, and it just felt like a bit of an escape from Geneva for a little while to kind of sit and chat with them. And of course I love the watches to me. They're kind of a North American version of a CWC, um, with a little bit more kind of marketing savvy. Um, I would say, um, I love the fact that like almost without exception, all of their watches have like a, an actual kind of military ordering number. attached to them because they're built to spec. And it's just good product and good people. |
| James Stacey | So yeah, that was a fun meeting. And I just like that the brand's doing anything and to have Marathon, you know, there's some Canadian pride there for me, connecting with a big brand, a brand that means a lot to North Americans like Jeep. Yeah, I think it makes sense. I think they align nicely. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and just as a side note, in terms of before we leave Time to Watches, I had a lovely time after my meetings, hanging out with Tom Clements and Ken Lamb, you saw them, and then Richard Bank from Studio Underdog. They were at Time to Watches when I was there and they were kind enough to sit and wait while I took my two appointments and then we hung out for another couple of hours. And sat and just chatted and had some really good laughs and some good times just talking about this and that, and then ended up going out for dinner afterwards. So it was great to see them there. That was just a really fun kind of bonus to that whole day, which was really a fun day. |
| James Stacey | Well, I would have killed to have been at that dinner, but I did get a chance to hang out a fair bit with Ken and Tom the following day, just before they left town. and it was a treat to see them. And I like time to watch this quite a bit. Ideally, in the future, I'd have more time for stuff like this and for the stuff that we saw at the Beaux Revaches, like the stuff we're just going to get to now. Look, you've got it right at the top of your list here, and it's a watch I didn't see. And now I'm going back and kicking myself because it's going to be a hard thing to see. I'm not just going to catch this watch in the wild. Why don't you tell people about this Singer? I'm just catching up on this. I didn't get a chance to see it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um, you know, this was a last minute appointment of mine. I had kind of caught wind of this watch before heading over to Geneva. And then I thought I got to get a meeting with these guys. Singer re-imagined, um, kind of popped up in the past few years with some pretty wild, very inventive, new style chronographs, uh, singer, you'd know better than me, James, but you know, they kind of came out of a, what would you call them? Like the Porsche singer was a, is a Porsche tuner or a kind of a, yeah. |
| James Stacey | So I w I would say like, if you, how, how to keep this answer nice and short, a singer customizes, their own vehicles based on certain generations of the 911. Yeah. So it's legally, it's a thing that has been an issue, will probably continue to be an issue with Porsche, because they're not technically Porsche 911s anymore, that a lot of it is very much changed. But of course, they still have the VIN number and the firewall and some of the bodywork and that sort of thing. But you have a company that has basically designed themselves as essentially doing super high end resto mods of 911s. in just turning the dial enough to make it essentially their own product. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | There is a side of it that includes watches, and for years, like you said, it's been kind of automotive derived, large, very complicated chronographs that use a specific movement, and now they've done this diver, which is called the dive track. Yeah. It looks awesome. |
| Jason Heaton | It's an amazing watch. And, and, you know, so I took this meeting at the Beau Revage and I went in and they had some kind of slick marketing, kind of a neat animated video that went along with it. It really spoke to me. And I went in here, um, with very few expectations or preconceptions and, and the watch really blew me away. It's, it's, uh, it's a watch that has, um, it's an oversized, like a 49 millimeter, very tall, almost a 20 millimeter tall titanium case with this incredibly beautiful chronograph movement from, Hagen graph or Hagen graph. I'm not sure you pronounce it, but they, they develop these, these chronograph movements for, for singer re-imagined, um, for kind of their more automotive themed chronographs. And they've developed this into a very dive specific watch that uses the dial and the hands of the watch only for dive tracking. So it's a bottom timer. Um, the time of day is on a, a time ring that sits along the case band. So if you want to know what time of the day it is, you kind of angle your wrist and sort of look at the six o'clock side and it's, it's transparent Sapphire of course. And there's the rotating ring with the hours, quarter hours and half hours delineated with a little loomed arrow that points to it. And the whole point of this watch is that it's designed as specifically a dive timer, specifically a chronograph. So on the, on the, about the two o'clock position on the case, there's a little, protector, red protector arm that you click up out of the way to start the chronograph. And then it's a center mounted chronograph hand that tracks seconds and minutes, um, with a very large oversized orange hand that counts up your dive time. And then in the middle is a smaller sub dial that's running on a 24 hour basis, um, and starts when you start the chronograph and attracts surface interval. Um, as well as. Um, no fly time, uh, for the, for the, uh, you know, tracking when you're, you shouldn't be, uh, flying of course, as well as your dive time. And this is all kind of in the purpose of like the holistic approach to, to timing your dive, not only underwater, but back when you're on the surface as well. And then of course it has a rotating bezel for doing your kind of intermediate kind of decompression stops on, on kind of a bigger, less precise scale. And I think, you know, kind of the overall package of this watch was what was impressive. I think the fact that the sheer inventiveness of this is what really struck me. You know, I got some comments from people saying, Oh, they've, you know, it's not unique enough. It looks too much like X, Y, and Z. Like they've taken too many elements from this. It's not unique enough. Yeah. I mean, this watch is, you know, for someone to think this far outside the box, is, is just tremendous. And it felt good on the wrist, obviously very big, but you know, if you've worn like a dive compass or a depth gauge or something like that, it doesn't feel that dissimilar to that. Plus being titanium, it doesn't weigh that much came with two awesome straps. There's this beautiful perforated rubber strap with a fold over, um, clasp or a really long, uh, hook and loop or Velcro, if you will, strap as well. Um, Okay, these watches, let's cut to the chase here. These are 85,000 Swiss franc watches. So certainly not in kind of our typical TGN budget, certainly not a watch I will be buying anytime soon. Um, but I just admire it. I admire the whole packaging. I love, I love everything about it. And it was just really, really fun to sit in this room and kind of just fondle this watch and play with it and, and hats off to them. I think I will say, I think it was probably the, the most eye-opening, if not favorite watch that I saw of the entire week in Geneva. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Look, I mean, we're always clear when we're talking about something that isn't really commercial product. There's 25 of these going to be made this year. I'm really genuinely like alongside with not seeing you very much at the fair and not seeing this as my other big miss. I can take a moment to talk about the most jaw-dropping thing I saw, which was that Bulgari Octo Finissimo Ultra. thinnest watch in the world. I don't even know how else to describe it. It's like someone physically handed you a magic trick. Wow. Wow. |
| Jason Heaton | It blew my mind. Was it like the width of a credit card or something almost, right? |
| James Stacey | It's thinner than a credit card. It's 1.7 millimeters for the entire movement and case. |
| Unknown | Wow. |
| James Stacey | The bracelet is gorgeous. The buckle, the clasp is insane. No element left without some consideration for its design, for the way that it would touch your skin or your fingertips or Really cool. And this hits in a similar way. Granted, I'm sure that... I wanna think... I think that Ultra's like half a million dollars or... It's a deal compared to Richard Mill, to be fair, the Bouldery, which is both... It's now thinner and it's more of a watch, the Richard Mill. You could see they made a ton of concessions to get it that thin with how it's wound and the rest of it. If you don't know anything about the Ultra, check it out. Check out the box it comes in, which sets the watch and winds it for you as well. It's like Wow. All of it's nothing I've ever seen before. And as far as dive watches go, like Jason said, we're not buying this. We're not saying you should try and get on the list if you don't want to, or like you have to have it. It's just a watch. But in the existence of things that are cool, this is like the Sherp, that ridiculous off-road vehicle. And I'm not going to take my kids to school in it. It's not going to be a replacement for your 14-06-0M. But am I pretty delighted that somebody took the time to make this and it's going to sell to 25 people who can really like just kind of enjoy how wild and fun it is. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's significantly cooler say than I'm trying to think of what else I saw that was in a similar price point at 85 grand. I mean that the solid gold deep sea at 50 who cares compared to this, like right. Right. |
| Jason Heaton | They're both giant watches. The eternal calendar was pretty cool. Yeah, sure. The eternal calendar, pretty cool. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this. Yeah. I think it's very cool. I should have seen it and I didn't. I love the, um, the peripheral time display on the edge of the case. I love that the front is just a, it's a dive tool that they essentially like redesigned. So there's a watch element. You could wear it. The rest of it. Are people diving with it? No. Are people diving with their Rolex subs? No. Like, come on, like, like, you know, come on. Like we are beyond this argument. Kudos to Singer for making that. Yeah. This goes right in there. What was the 50 fathoms X? |
| Unknown | Oh, right. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yep. It feels similar in terms of kind of right alongside there for me. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Conventional everyday watch? No, probably not, unless you're significantly cooler than Jason and I, I suppose, you know, leading a different type of life, but very, very cool. I would also say, you know, in my mind, it goes right alongside, like, a Type 5 from Ressence. Yep, I would agree. Like, show me what you could do with a dive watch if you just don't pay attention to what Rolex and Blancpain have been doing for X number of years, right? Yeah. Pretty cool stuff. Yeah. Speaking of other stuff I saw in the Beau Rivage that was quite exciting, did you swing by Space One? I didn't. Don't know anything about that. No, tell me. So space one is under the same sort of leadership as Nevada Grenchen. Okay. And they make sort of, if you imagine like some of the wilder, they make more like conventionally priced iterations of like the wilder day, but tune stuff from years ago, the stuff that looks like a spaceship. Yeah. Oh, this is wild. But they've got a new one called the tellurium. I'm sure I have that pronunciation. Not quite right. It's about 3000 euros. Yeah. and it's a... It looks a little bit like a blending of an MB&F and an Urwerk, if that makes sense. Again, this one you just gotta kinda check out, shows the moon revolving around an earth and the sun is in the center, but it also shows the hours and the minutes on sort of peripheral displays. I think that's the kind of thing where like if I saw it in photos, I'd go like, ah, that's cool, but then I saw it in person, I put it on my wrist and it's awesome. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | I'm definitely going to borrow one and try and do a story. I have no clue how hard this is going to be to photograph without reflections, but it's very cool. And I would put it on your radar as like, check it out, because the price point is not an MB&F or a Day Batoon price point. And when Max and the Mad Galleries put out the Mad One, I think they kind of helped kick off this idea that you could have kind of avant-garde weird maybe not always the most wearable but still exciting and fun and very niche watchmaking yeah and it didn't have to cost 50 60 70 2 3 4 5 million dollars like whatever yeah um that that some of these can and and i wanted to make sure i put this on the list because it was just like the gravitational pull of having this on the table and needing to put my hand, put it in my hand and like play with it. Yeah. It was very high. Very cool stuff. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. This is cool. I like that this stuff exists and I think that's what the shows like this do. It, you have to set aside your pragmatism and say, I'm just happy that, that there are people inventing stuff like the, like, like this or like the eternal calendar from IWC that I saw that kind of blew me away with this, you know, 4 million year accurate, uh, moon phase and you know, stuff like that. I mean, it's just, it's art and in the end and, And this happens to be reasonably affordable art, this tellurium. So very cool. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And, and as we are going to get to doc said, but I think we'll probably close on docs and then we can talk about a few other things that happened at the show. Yeah. Um, before we get to the other one that you put on this list, I can drop in Nevada Grenchen as well or Nivida Grenchen. I'm not entirely sure at this point, having now heard it spoken aloud by the fellow actually running the brand, uh, lovely people, uh, same people behind space one, but they've got a new one called the F 77, which is just a faithful re edition of a watch made in the late 70s. Oh, nice. And it comes in a bunch of different versions. And I think if you've been on the vibe of like, I'd like to do this, the kind of integrated bracelet thing, but you don't wanna spend IWC, AP, you don't wanna spend deep into the four figures, five figures, six figures, that sort of thing. Yeah. This is an interesting option. Really good watch. I tried on several versions on my own wrist. The titanium and meteorite is deeply cool. Huh. at $1,690. Very, very rad. I thought the Lapis Lazuli, especially for like a steel sports watch otherwise, like if you wanted something a little bit fancier, also really cool. They kind of had that Ingenieur vibe to begin with, but these are worth a look as well. And I like the price point, coming in like well under two grand. Boy, I do too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. These are pretty tempting, pretty cool watch, nice idea. But the the the two in titanium, they're all called the f77 there's ten versions But the two in titanium one with a meteorite down one with the anthracite dial fantastic. I would probably weirdly the the Lapis kind of speaks to me because it just has this weird fanciness to it that I kind of dig. Yeah Yeah, no, these are neat. Yeah, very cool. Yeah, definitely fun one and you've got another on the list here |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, this isn't, this wasn't even a new watch, but I had never had exposure to Delma and that's a brand that I don't think we've ever even spoken that name on this show. And, and they're, I don't think so. They're celebrating an anniversary. It's a, it's a long kind of family owned business that specialized in dive watches. They, they had a kind of a celebratory anniversary tourbillon piece, which, which they were showing, which, you know, fine, well and good. But, um, what I really went there to see was the, the, the quattro, which, You know, when we're talking about inventive dive watches, this is actually a watch that Delma, I didn't realize, uh, had made back in, I believe the sixties or seventies. And, and I remember when the press release came out a couple of years ago about this watch, it's, it's a modular piece where the, the watch head actually clicks in bayonet style to either the bracelet, um, or a carriage that sits with a rubber strap, or you can click it into, uh, a thin, um, I assume aluminum, or actually maybe it's stainless, like a plate that has the, the, decompression tables or non decompression limits tables engraved on it and a little lanyard that you could actually take diving like a swim board. And, um, it, it kind of reminds me of the shape of the bezel reminds me a bit of my super professional, the Tag Heuer, um, very clean look. Oh yeah, sure. The crown is, is sort of hidden or kind of flush with the case. So it has this sort of pebble feel with, with this kind of cool, um, faceted bezel. And then, and then this unique bayonet style. uh, connection method. Um, I, I just had so much fun trying that watch on and, and kind of the satisfaction of clicking it in and out of this kind of chassis that it fits into on the bracelet. It was just a lot of fun. And the folks at Delmo were really, really nice and gracious and, and kind of humored me with, with my, uh, fiddling around with that watch quite a bit. So just wanted to mention that for, for those that might be curious about some of these smaller brands that show up that you might've heard about. Um, if you ever get a chance to, to take a look at a Delma Quattro, Take a look. Yeah. Neat watches. |
| James Stacey | And just because I'm not fully certain I'm not on the Canadian version of their website, I've been clicking around while you were talking. What is the actual price point that you're seeing for US? |
| Jason Heaton | $2,490. So quite reasonable for a very innovative watch. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | It comes in a number of different colors. And just for those listening, it runs on SW200, 44 millimeter by 13.7, 22 mil lugs, and then all the stuff, you know, 500 meters water resistance. It's actually quite a long spec list. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | But those are the basics. Definitely worth a look. I didn't know this existed. I didn't take a meeting with Delma. Now we're just learning all the things that I missed on by going to so many other meetings. But this is cool. I like it. I like the different colors and that kind of stuff. And that is one of those opportunities where if you have the time and the position, you do have this option of seeing some stuff that you just wouldn't see at home. And I think this is included in that. Yeah. All right. Let's, uh, you want to wrap it up with Doxa? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, just down the hall from Delma, I think that was kind of, it was dive central for me. It was Singer and, and Delma and then Doxa and that building. And yeah. Um, you had, had you handled the sub 200 T before the release or you wrote? |
| James Stacey | Oh, sir. Yeah. Yeah. I wrote about it and we talked about it a little bit on the episode with Chris Soul. Thanks again for Chris for coming on. |
| Unknown | What did you think? |
| James Stacey | The previous episode from two weeks ago? I'm in love, man. Yeah. Yeah. I just adore it. Do you think it's too small? What do you think? I don't think it's too small. |
| Jason Heaton | No, it wore really nicely. And a lot of people ask me like, is it too small? Is it hard to read? Not at all. So, you know, you've got the sub 300, which you and I both love the kind of heritage one with the kind of the dial looks quite tiny with that domed crystal. This is like sub 300 shrunk down. So flat crystal, bigger dial space. Um, I thought it wore really well, really well. I'd have a tough time picking which color I like the best. |
| James Stacey | So I'm almost certainly buying one, it's on my list. I literally have a to do list on the left side of my monitor and one of the options along with a bunch of things that I actually have to, must get done this week is buy a 200T. I think I'm going Diving Star, Iconic Dial. I didn't care for the Sunray Dial on most. Yeah. I thought it was really good on the Aquamarine. The Sunray Dial felt like a whole different watch from the standard, like the Delta between the Iconic and the Sunray. And then I thought the sunray on the shark hunter was interesting because it just added something to a shark hunter I've never seen before. Yeah. Which is like a shimmer. Yeah. Um, for the yellow, it's too metallic. So absolutely I'd be going diving star iconic, but here's the problem. Did you get a look at the, uh, at the Caribbean iconic, the blue, that Navy blue with the orange. It's tough. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I know. It's, it's tough choices. And I think, um, As boring a choice as it might be, I think I'd go shark hunter and, and there I might have, I'd have a tough time deciding between the Sunray or the Iconic, but, um, I think I'd go shark hunter just because it's kind of a sentimental favorite, but sure. Yeah. The blues, the blue sharp, the Caribbean, the one I didn't care for the least. Well, other than the aquamarine, I don't think I could pull that off is the, the, the green, the sea emerald. |
| James Stacey | The sea emerald didn't speak to me, but that's because of the gold accents. Yeah. which I think is a very specific move that they know will sell for the brand. I spoke with Jan, the gentleman who's in charge, and they're very proud of that color. It's doing well. They've got a watches of Switzerland special edition as well in a slightly different green. I think this is really exciting for a few reasons that I think we already covered on the previous episode a couple of weeks ago. It's a brand new Doxa that's more wearable, more in tune with people who might want to share the watch with a partner, where a slightly smaller watch is going to work. It's crazy because they had 300... They had a 300 standard, 300 pro on the table, and it feels huge compared. But once you put either on your wrist, they just don't feel that different, all things told. I like that it's a little bit smaller. I don't care about the bracelet or the rubber. I would go with neither. I'm not gonna use either. I'll buy mine on the bracelet, and then I'll just immediately find a strap to wear. But I think I'm leaning towards yellow. I'm gonna try and have a little bit of fun, do the Summer Watch with the Diving Star, And I love that these watches are... It's a brand new automatic Doxa. Everything... I played with every version that they had on the table. I opened the crown, I changed the time, I spun the bezel. I've got a whole hands-on coming early next week. So this comes out Thursday. By Monday or Tuesday, there'll be a bunch of photos and some more cohesive thoughts on Hodinkee. But it's about the price of... I love that... Dude, we live in a world where I can tell you, you can go buy a pretty solid Seiko diver, like the new SPBs or the previous, or for, look, not the same amount of money, but close. Yeah. Within shooting distance, you could have a Doxa. Yeah, yeah. That just didn't exist when I got into this. It didn't exist two years ago. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. |
| James Stacey | Because I never felt a strong connection to the Sub 200. I like it, it's a good watch, kind of Omega, mid-century Omega vibes, but this is core Doxa, and the price is lower. |
| Jason Heaton | It feels like where Doxa should be for what they represent for diving enthusiasts. If they really wanna be the diver's watch, that's all they do, that's what they're known for now. And it feels like, like you said, lining up next to Seiko divers, which is the watch a lot of people get their PADI certification and go off and start diving, they're like, I'm gonna wear my dive watch. You could You can go out and buy this one as a celebration for getting your certification and wear a proper, iconic dive watch for not that much money. |
| James Stacey | I think, like you said, I think this is a price point the brand should operate in. Obviously, the 300T, which is a little thicker, the modern one, is only $1,800, $1,900, so they're not far off, but I think the 200T is a more appealing product. It feels razor sharp. It hits 39 millimeters. It wears really well. The price makes sense. The movement's solid. I'm just like wall to wall, this is the watch that I think spoke to me most that came out this year so far. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | I want to get one despite the fact that I guarantee I'm on record in previous episodes is like saying, I'm not going to buy a bunch of watches this year. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, that's how it happens. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. We'll see if it ends up being the diving star or the Caribbean. If you want to weigh in, maybe we do a little vote. Right. But I figure if I'm going to go through the effort of having them send me one that I would then have to send back, I'll just buy one, they can send me that, I'll review it for the story. I can compare it next to my Sea Rambler. I don't see it as a replacement. I see them as like two watches, but as a guy with daughters, that makes the watch easier to give out. Now, if you come and ask... I just love that DOCS is now part of a conversation that they weren't part of previously, in my mind. Like, oh, so-and-so is graduating, what should I get them? So-and-so just got their dive... We'd like to celebrate getting our dive license or this or that. And I think it's just cool to have it and for it not to feel like there's a... an asterisk. Right. Ah, it's great, but... Yeah, yeah. No, I think if you like Doxa, you're going to like this watch, and unless it's too small, which could be the only possibility, in which case you're covered by several other watches they make, it's a pretty solid offering. Yeah, yeah. I'm a fan, and I told Doxa that. I think this is a... In a year where things are getting more expensive, where customers aren't really necessarily getting 100% of what they want, but we're getting closer, it just felt like Doxa said, this is our year, let's just do it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny when I look at our list, I mean, we're finishing up with that watch. And when I look at our list, all things considered, you know, okay. Dive track, Singer reimagined kind of coolest thing I saw, but $85,000, um, of all the watches on the list, like you're right. I think the DOCSIS sub 200T might be the one that would be the most realistic in terms of if I were considering buying anything that I saw. Yeah. Or recommending. Or recommending. Correct. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And look, to be fair, and look, some of you listening aren't on the Slack, but if you're on the Slack, people are already posting wrist shots. They were for sale when this watch launched. Oh, really? Wow. |
| Jason Heaton | Fantastic. Fantastic. |
| James Stacey | I also just, I just love the idea that we have a brand which used to be exclusively online. Speaking of people we ran into at the show, I ran into Rick who used to run Doxa. I saw him on Friday, just between space one. And I walked over to see the guys from Baltic. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And Rick was there, spoke with Rick for a few minutes. He used to run Doxa, brought Doxa into the internet realm, really supported the brand online. Ownership changed a few years ago. And I think for Doxa to be part of a conversation that maybe they weren't previously, like now they'll be part of the kind of go-to list of things I would recommend. And I think to have this option where someone can try the brand and try what's at the core of the brand, that 1967 design for less money, like almost $1,000 less than a 300, a standard 300 with the vintage effect. I think this is great. I cannot complain. And it's definitely, even if I, do I need another Doxa? Do I need another dive watch? Do I need another anything? No, probably not. I've been very blessed when it comes to Doxas and otherwise, but I got to support this move. the same way that I feel that certain elements of what Bremont is up to and has been up to is personal, a little bit of it's personal when it comes to Doxie. This is a brand that is part of the reason, part of the foundation of why I like watches. Yeah, right. Cool stuff. Happy to see it. Yeah. Anyways, I guarantee you, just like last year, we've missed a few. Let us know. Yeah. If there's something we missed, we can catch it up on the next episode. This episode is gonna be the better part of two hours. We had a recording failure, but the second piece is already an hour and a half. I don't mind. I love doing this show. We will get to final notes in a moment, but we did also do some stuff that wasn't just watches. You had a dinner. I had a couple of dinners. How did that kind of stuff go? Do you do anything of note? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, I mentioned, you know, my fun afternoon with Tom, Ken and Richard. Um, and, and that was a blast. Um, I mean, we had total belly laughs and, and, you know, on an insider basis, you know, we talked about everything from, from wearing, uh, jumpsuits to Tom's idyllic sort of countryside background. And we just laughed a good time, had a good curry together. On the other side of the coin, I went for dinner the previous night with, Bramont invited me to a dinner with Jimmy Chin, who is their new ambassador and, you know, longtime fan, huge Jimmy Chin fan, happens to be a fellow Minnesotan. And I was seated next to him at dinner and I'm not going to apologize to anybody else there for totally monopolizing his time. Um, we, we chatted for close to an hour and a half, uh, about all sorts of things. He was incredibly honest and Frank about some episodes during the filming of some of his films. We talked about, um, you know, the prices of fame and future projects and, uh, great lakes diving and Minnesota. And, uh, climbing and skiing and all that sort of stuff. And, uh, it was just a delight. Uh, Jimmy was, uh, it was just a wonderful guy to sit next to at dinner. And I'm, I'm grateful to, to Braymont for inviting me to that and, and seating me next to him. Cause it was, uh, it was a real privilege and a pleasure. So, um, yeah, that was, that was a really good time. And then I did go to a Rolex event at Rolex headquarters that was on the Tuesday night last week. And that was a real privilege to kind of get inside the, uh, I guess the iconic um, Rolex headquarter building. We were in, uh, I guess an auditorium, uh, below ground level and, uh, they'd kind of had turned it into a, a bit of a nightclub. They had a jazz band and, uh, cocktails and food and, and lots of fun people to catch up with and chat with. So that was a real privilege as well. So, um, yeah, those were kind of the after hours, uh, activities that I got up to and had a good time with. So, and what about you? You got to, you went to like a really wild kind of quirky event. |
| James Stacey | Typically I only go to one dinner tutor. because it means I get to see Cole, I get to see Kristoff, catch up with those guys. Otherwise, I try and avoid the dinners. They make it very difficult to work at night and to keep on a schedule and that kind of thing. So this year I made an exception, which was... Oh, and the Tudor dinner was lovely. Got to connect with a bunch of folks, both from Tudor and otherwise. There's a good group of press at that as well. And it was all a Lingy theme, so there was some really fun stuff and members of the team around. I sat across the table from one of the general managers of the team and had like a thousand questions. He had a very cool black based ceramic with a Red Bull logo on the dial, like no text, just that cool logo. It was really fun. The next night I had been invited to a dinner with Breitling, who was not exhibiting at the fair or otherwise, but was running kind of a Breitling bar throughout the week. And then the one night they did a dinner. And the dinner was for the 25th anniversary of the orbiter, which they recently celebrated with a brand new generation of the aerospace with like an orange dial and the back has a piece of the original balloon. And this was all tied into the announcement of a project from Bertram Picard in which they're going to fly a zero emissions plane around the world in a few years. Stay tuned on that. If we can get Bertrand or anyone else from the project on the show, we will. I'll put it in the show notes. You can read up on it if you want, but it's still hypothetical. They're not 100% sure it can be done. Anyways, as part of the celebration of this anniversary, Bertrand was there, as was Brian Jones. So those are the two gentlemen who flew Orbiter 3 around the world 25 years ago. pretty fun, pretty interesting. And, you know, they did a little speech. They talked about this new initiative they talked about with George Kern, who's currently running Brightling. They talked all about that connection. And then they said, all right, it's time for dinner. Go find your seating and sit down and have dinner. Yeah. Which is pretty common. I walk up to a lady with an iPad and I give her my last name. She goes, Oh, you're at table eight. And I go, all right, cool. I walked down to table eight. It's full. There's no seats. And I go, okay. I mean, the Canadian in me means I'm not even going to walk close enough to see if my name tag is there. This is already too uncomfortable. So I walked back to lady with the iPad and I go, yeah, you know, the seat's kind of full over there, like, you know, this or that. And I didn't really know what the opportunities were going to be for that evening. And if they said like, well, unfortunately we miscounted and you don't have a seat, I just like, you know, head home. I'll go get Donair. No big deal. I already had a nice time. I saw the event. I got to see the, the watch up close, like in a case and that kind of thing. And they're like, Oh, we can find you another seat. Just give me a minute. And she comes back and she goes, Hey, it turns out someone didn't show up to one of the main tables. You can have that seat. Oh, so I sit down across from, uh, elderly gentlemen and, and next to, uh, someone who, you know, turned out to be his wife and it was Brian Jones. Uh, so I then had like a two hour in-depth conversation with Brian and his lovely wife all about everything. I mean, everything they've been up to, they had flown on the Concorde years ago. I went through it. I got all my questions in. Oh, yeah, yeah. Had a really good time. He was also wearing one of the new aerospace, so I got to play with that. I got to tell you, really nice, a little big, right? Yeah. Being the modern take. Also, for an aerospace nerd, it doesn't necessarily bother me. Super strange to have pushers on an aerospace. Otherwise, I would say it looks and feels a lot like an Evo, backlight, Sure. Kind of that those sorts of dimensions. Very cool. Really cool to be able to, like, hand my the Red Devil Pluton. |
| Unknown | Oh, yeah. |
| James Stacey | To Brian Jones. |
| Unknown | Oh, yeah. |
| James Stacey | And take his aerospace. Yeah. For a wrist shot. And he thought it was hilarious that I was, like, taking a picture of the watch and all this kind of stuff. And yeah, really genuinely lovely people. A good meal. Had a nice time chatting with them. And then at some point he was like, you know, I got to go say hi to a few other people. I was like, and I got to go to bed, buddy. I'll catch you later. And I just bounced. But it was a great evening. Super nice to hang out. with the two of them and learn about, you know, what they're up to now, what they've been up to for years, what it was like to kind of get into balloon piloting and all this other kind of stuff. So, you know, we'll talk to Breitling and see what we can do, but maybe having those fellows on the show sometime in the future, especially in the sense of promoting this new project to fly a hydrogen powered plane around the world. But yeah, that was a highlight for me. I kind of walked away from that. I was like, man, what Awfully glad some knucklehead took my seat, right? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, you can't, you can't duplicate that. I mean, that's like the perfect story. Perfect serendipity. That's awesome. That's amazing. |
| James Stacey | But yeah, that's basically, other than that, look, I spent a lot of time, nowhere near enough time with you, but a ton with the Houdinki team. I got to see Bilal and Oren and so many of our friends and buddies and that kind of stuff. And it's always, always a plus, like you said, Stevie P and I hadn't seen Steven in a long time and it was a real treat. I got to, like sit down and have like a proper catch up with him. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Look, I mean, we're definitely pushing up on two hours at this point. Who knows how much I cut? Some, not all. And before we get into final notes, which we'll get to in just a moment, one last thing I wanted to mention was we did a Hodinkee hangout with Lucid at Lucid Gallery in Geneva. It's the second year we've done it. And we had a really solid group of TGNers show up. And I really appreciate you guys showing up for me like that. Made me feel like a million bucks. Had a couple of great chats, a nice group of people. Uh, which included, uh, our good, our good buddy Blake from the deep track and obviously the slack. And yeah, I, I just want, I wanted to shout it out that it meant a lot that you guys would show up to something, even if it wasn't specifically a TGN hangout, we didn't even have cold beer, it was champagne. And, uh, and yeah, I just, I, it was so nice to see all of you and put some faces to names, some names to faces and see the watches and get to chit chat a little bit. So, uh, from deep down inside, and I know that we, we had a little thread going on slack, but To put it on record, it means a lot that y'all would show up. So that was a fun one. Hopefully we do it again next year. Right. But do you want to get into final notes and put a bow on it until next week? Sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. I'll go first because I'm pretty excited about this one. So years ago, I got to know the legendary polar explorer, Will Steger, who's now in his late seventies. He was just this incredible hero of mine and a real icon of polar exploration. He's from Minnesota. I've been to his place up in Northern Minnesota. And, um, at one of his gatherings at his homestead way up there near the Canadian border, um, I met, uh, a filmmaker named Tasha Vanzant, who was there because she was, she was working on a documentary film about Steger and his life. And that film came out, I would say a year or two ago called after Antarctica. And it's all about Steger's life and career. the, it showed at some kind of film festivals and I had a link to a screening of it, but, but I could never share it with people cause I, there was no place to like watch it. And now it's actually streaming. So you can watch it on Apple TV. You can watch it on Amazon. Um, we'll, we'll throw a link in the show notes to the after Antarctica.com website where they've got links to where you can watch it. Um, I, I can't recommend this enough. I think, you know, Steger, as I've said, probably many times, he's a real hero of mine. He actually sponsored my membership to the explorers club. led a dog team on the longest trans Antarctic expedition of all time. It was an international one from the long way across Antarctica with a team from all over the world back in the late eighties, early nineties. Uh, he's, you know, dog sledded and skied to the North pole, et cetera, et cetera. Um, just such a hero. And, uh, this is a really, really well-made film that's won some awards and, uh, uh, some great kind of archival footage of, of, of some of his expeditions and, and, Good stuff. So, very TGN, near and dear to my heart, and you gotta check this out. It's available for rent in a few different places, and I encourage you all to watch it. So, check it out. |
| James Stacey | Man, I clicked a link, which I'll put in the show notes, and it just loads this page that says, watch the film and shows the trailer. Yeah. But the freeze frame for the play page for the trailer... Isn't that wild? That's enough to get me in. Yeah. An incredible piece of photography. Oh, yeah, yeah. This might have to happen tonight. Yeah. As a nice little wind down. Um, after, after I get this episode, I'll edit it out. This looks awesome. Yeah. Good one. Yeah. All right. Bring us home. Yeah. And mine today is actually just a video from YouTube that I think falls deeply within the TGN space. Uh, the day that we're recording this on the 16th, I believe the embargo for the new Toyota Land Cruiser has lifted. So all of the outlets published their videos. I watched a handful of them. This is a product I'm pretty interested in. I'm not sure I would... I'm not gonna fight through the crowds and try and get one, but maybe someday as a second or third owner, which is more my specialty when it comes to vehicles, I really like this one. It's this boxy kind of recreation. And Throttle House, which includes previous TGN guests, and actually future TGN guests to be fair, I'd love to have Thomas on again, Thomas Holland, Throttle House put out their review They call it idiot proof, and yes, at some point they do damage the vehicle with a move in the desert they weren't necessarily planning on. It's a great review. I highly recommend it. I mean, Throttle House has just been killing it recently, so this isn't really a surprise, but this is one that I know people have been waiting for, this embargo specifically, and then their video will definitely number among some of the more impactful. It's a great look at the vehicle. They're out in the deserts in California, and it's a really good one. I highly recommend it. Within the the vibe of, um, you know, more and more vehicles returning to the kind of defender look square boxy, the G wagon, the defender, the ones that didn't leave that space. Um, and then of course we have the Ineos and now we've got a new land cruiser. I think these are all like pretty core to, to our world. I certainly, every time I meet up with people from the, from the slack, they want to talk about the Grenadier and they want to talk about Jeeps and Land Rovers and stuff like that. And I think this is just right in there. And You know, I mean, this thing has been live for no time at all. They're at a thousand comments and, uh, it's a great video. I highly recommend it. Hilarious intro as I mean, it's photo house as always. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. When you, when you posted this in our notes, I did kind of a quick skip ahead, skip ahead, kind of watch through it. And I'm definitely going to go back and, and watch it in full because, uh, not only have, do I enjoy their content, but, uh, I've been very curious about this vehicle since, uh, since it was announced and, uh, it looks amazing. It truly looks amazing. I'd love to. at the very least test drive one someday. So good stuff. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I mean, we, you and I were talking about, uh, I'm, I'm just a real tease to be fair. You and I were talking about a road trip sometime in the future. I could, we could reach out to a few contacts and see if they've got, uh, got one laying around that, um, they wouldn't mind. I mean, as much as I would love to do it in, uh, in, in your Land Rover, but, uh, yeah, I do like that idea. I don't know. These are great. And like I said, the throttle house guys have been just killing it lately. Thomas has become a buddy. We, we, we have lunch with some frequency and hang out and, Certainly he's, uh, deep into the watch stuff as well. So I'm going to have Thomas back on soon. Maybe I can convince James to come on as well. Uh, but to that entire team, I know it's, it's more than just the two of them, certainly, but to that whole team, great video and great work recently. So big fan. |
| Jason Heaton | Good stuff. Wow. This, this felt like a throwback episode. This felt like, this felt like a proper old, this is, this is kind of a redo of, of our very first episode one. If you haven't checked out. all luxed out episode one from SIHH back in, uh, gosh, what would have been January, 2017 or there 2016. Yeah. Um, here we are going back to our roots and it was a, it was a good one. It was fun. I had a great time. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Some, some really fun watches, some watches that I think people could be encouraged to go out and buy and, and access and then just some stuff just to be excited about and a few fun stories and that kind of thing. |
| Unknown | So |
| James Stacey | A big thank you to everyone who listened. If you do feel we missed something core that you would like to hear about, you can, of course, send us an email, thegrenadoatgmail.com, or if you're on the Slack, which you can get into for as little as five bucks a month, that comes with other benefits, of course, but the Slack has really become a selling point all in and of itself. If you'd like to get in on that, swing by and check that out at thegrenadoatgmail.com. Music throughout, as ever, is Siesta by JazzArr via the Free Music Archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from John Maynard Keynes, who said, The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones. |