The Grey NATO – 276 – Jason's Very English Adventure [Bremont, Flying Vintage Planes, Alex Bescoby, and THE Land Rover]
Published on Thu, 14 Mar 2024 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
The hosts discuss new Seiko watches being released, including updates to the popular SPB143 diver model. Jason then recounts his recent trip to England where he visited the Bremont manufacture, went flying in a vintage Land Rover with the company's co-founder, and attended a British watchmaking event. A highlight was his interview with Alex Bescoby, filmmaker behind the documentary series "The Last Overland" which retraced a famous 1950s road journey from Singapore to London in an old Land Rover. Alex shares stories from the arduous four-month journey across Asia, the geopolitical challenges of planning the route, and his goal to potentially recreate another epic road trip along the Pan-American Highway.
Links
Transcript
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| James Stacy | Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 276. And it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening and would like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is James Stacy, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co host Jason Heaton. Hey, Jason, how you doing? |
| Jason Heaton | I'm doing pretty well. I'm a couple of days back from my trip and, uh, uh, slightly jet lagged. Although last night I got a proper eight hours of sleep. So feeling pretty perfect. Can't ask for much more than that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Much better on the way back than on the way over. I don't know why, but I can never figure out the logic of jet lag, frankly. |
| James Stacy | You were more jet lagged when you went out there? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, yeah. And part of that problem is I don't sleep on flights at all, pretty much. And it was an overnight flight. So I landed at seven in the morning in England and then had to kind of hit the ground running. So I was up for, you know, like over 24 hours straight with no sleep, which always kind of, that's rough. That'll fry you. Oh yeah, sure. |
| James Stacy | But, uh, well look, we've got all of that coming up in the main part of the show, including the great chat that you recorded. Should be a pretty fun episode. Yeah. Uh, I'm glad that you made it back. Obviously, uh, you've been back for a couple of days at this point. Um, what, what's, uh, do you have a trip, another trip coming up or are you home for a bit? |
| Jason Heaton | I am home until, uh, Geneva. So gosh, I mean, geez, less than a month. Theoretically me too. Yeah, theoretically, right? |
| James Stacy | Yeah, we'll be almost flying home in a month. By the time this episode comes out, it'll be within a month of it being over, which is very scary. It is very scary. If my audio sounds a little different today or very different, I'm recording from my in-law's home in Pennsylvania. So I brought down the DJI mic and I'm kind of holding it like a TikToker as I talk. And hopefully it's not too close to my mouth, but hopefully it's also not too far away. I did some test records. We'll see how it worked out. Hopefully it's at least clear. I don't know that it's going to sound amazing. Uh, but speaking of, uh, Pennsylvania, we had an incredible hangout on Sunday afternoon in new hope at the triumph brewery. Nice. I don't really know. I didn't even make much of an effort to count this time, but we guessed around 30 folks showed up. Wow. It went for a few hours. Um, it was awesome. Uh, we had a bunch of people show up that were there at the previous one in November. We had a handful of brand new folks. We had people who came in from a pretty good distance. We just had an absolute blast. It was great. And I wanted to make a concerted thank you to Jan for helping me set everything up and calling in. It wasn't as easy to set up this one as it was the first one, but it ended up being just as smooth once we were there and everything did it. So I appreciate the support in getting that put together. Fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. We had a great time. Something, you know, like always killer watches, really nice folks. Lots of lots of stuff to hang out with. Great band was playing the sort of like jazz fusion band that was doing like covers of stuff. uh, you know, maybe not quite as funky as like a Wolfpack, but getting into that territory, it was pretty fun. You know, I drove down here on the weekend and kind of the only thing that's happened since we recorded the last one, aside from your trip, which we're going to get to is, uh, you know, right on the Wednesday night. So this, the last episode will of course come up Thursday morning. So that Wednesday night was the Seiko like digital press preview for a few of the new models for 2024. And that included the brand new kind of take on the SPB 143. So it's now the four, five, three, and there's, there's three versions, four, five, three, four, five, one, four, five, five. Did you get a chance to take a look at these? Cause this would have come out essentially what hours before you left for the UK or maybe while you were in the air or something like that? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, my first peek at them has been on your story, actually on Hodinkee and, uh, They look great. I'm just, and I read through your article and it sounds like it's, it's largely a tweak, I guess, or refinement of, of the watch that you, you've loved, known and loved for a couple of years now. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, for sure. I think, yeah, I would say definitely a refinement, very similar in some ways with some, some kind of subtle differences, somewhat smaller, half a millimeter in width, you know, two tenths of a millimeter in thickness, but now it's not, it's not 200 meters, it's 300. And the, you know, the, the dial shows three days in text. I'm not sure necessarily why that's necessary to show on a dive watch, but Seiko went that route because the brand new version of this movement is 72 hours instead of 70. So we're talking like very incremental little updates and probably the biggest one is they've apparently made quite a refinement to the bracelet, which, you know, and this is according to them, what they told me. So whether that's the case, we'll of course find out as we get a chance to see the watch in the next little while. Sorry, I'm moving across my bedroom here because I can hear the bed squeaking every time I touch my laptop and I'm worried that it's in the recording. I got to talk to the staff at this recording studio. It's not great. But yeah, so the watch, I think the big things that people will stand out is they look almost identical, but now you have a little bit more of a conventional finish for like the black model has just kind of a standard black bezel. I actually don't know what the bezel insert is made out of. I believe it's still some sort of an anodized steel, but it doesn't have the same sort of brushed look. And then the dial, instead of that sort of grayish tone that the 143 had, you're now into like an actual black dial. So there's a black version, a blue version, which I think the blue is really calling me. And then, uh, there's like a special edition with like a charcoal dial and gold accents, which of course isn't for me, but will definitely be popular. The two-tone sort of vibe, like the guilt effect. And then they've got the date at 4.30 now. Uh, I am, I have to say that whatever has happened in the last couple of years, maybe this is a, maybe this is my, my COVID vaccine got inside my brain and changed how I feel about 4.30 dates. But the, they've got a 4.30 date and, and I don't mind it. It's a very simple, small aperture, similar to what we saw. on kind of those, the like pseudo Willards that came out a couple of years ago. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | And it's color matched to the, uh, to the dial and it's pretty subtle, you know? Yeah. I think this is the sort of execution where you almost wouldn't notice the date until you needed to look for the number. Yeah. Uh, which is probably best case for a 430. I definitely wouldn't want, I don't, I still really don't like 430 dates where they're sort of set up like a standard date with a frame and maybe, you know, an embellished aperture and, a white date wheel and that sort of thing, but this, this does it. |
| Jason Heaton | Okay. I think, uh, four 30 dates are obviously a divisive issue with, with a lot of folks. And, and personally, I don't mind it. And now I've started to warm up to that position because it does allow for symmetry in the dial markings. But one thing they've done well here is that is not often not the case is the, the number is actually oriented horizontally. Like as you look at it, as opposed to a lot of them, which, feel slightly lazy where it's kind of at an angle. I mean, even, even my Blancpain or something. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | They like tilt them towards the center line of the dial. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And you feel like it's kind of going around. You have to kind of tilt your head. I mean, again, these are all very small issues, but it does look good. And the aperture is so small that it almost disappears until you're, I mean, who writes checks anymore, but unless you actually need the date, like then you've got it. |
| James Stacy | So, yeah. Yeah. And I think to, to your point, like having the date, having the, the actual wheel printed in a manner that keeps the number essentially aligned with all the other texts on the dial. Yeah. Vertically, horizontally, that sort of thing. I think it does make it seem like you meant to have the date there rather than, oh, we do need a date. So let's hole punch our dial at four 30 and just, you know, we'll use the same wheel that would be aligned at three. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Whereas this is a four 30 wheel. So that's a good point and a nice thing to add. So I don't know. I definitely going to try and get one in for loan to write about it and that sort of thing. I think I think if one of these is in my personal future, I'm going to do sort of the different route that I did with the 143, which is where I bought it the minute it was available in Japan. I'll probably wait and see what the special LEs are for this one. Cause I really liked that like night diver spec of the 143 with the black case and the orange minute hand. Yeah. But there's no reason to own two of those watches in my world. Cause I already own seven or eight similar watches to these. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | So it's all very redundant. Um, but yeah, so I, I'm going to keep my eye open to see what comes up, but the, uh, the four, five, one, the, the full blue bottle, I think would be an absolute winner. Just a nice sort of dressy diver. And I, the price for the record doesn't feel that crazy to me. It's just, like I said, it feels like Seiko these days. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Do you have, or have you owned a blue watch before? I can't remember. |
| James Stacy | Oh, several. Yeah. Yeah. Lots. |
| Jason Heaton | Uh, Helios perhaps. What, what have you had? |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I've had a couple Hallios in blue. I've had Helsin Shark Diver in blue. Boy, it's hard to go back and think about that many watches. Yeah, yeah. I think I've owned quite a few blue watches over time. Obviously, the Hallios is with the pastel coloring on, if we're talking about Fairwinds and Universals, or Universes. But then if you go before that, I had a Blue Dial Tropic, which I believe Mike Pearson still has, now that I think of it. Oh, okay. |
| Unknown | Mike, do you have that watch still? |
| James Stacy | How about you? Any of them ever land for you? |
| Jason Heaton | No, but I kind of like them. |
| James Stacy | I mean, there are a lot. You've got that blue Omega chrono right now. |
| Jason Heaton | That's true. Yeah. Which is a fantastic blue. And Tudor does a nice job with blue. I just find that some blues, you know, it's a touchy issue. I mean, some of them kind of come across a little too iridescent or they do sort of a starburst or sorry, sunburst, sunburst finish on them. And it never looks quite right to me. But yeah, this one looks sharp. |
| James Stacy | I like it. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | I think it's a good one. It's nice to see Seiko just kind of continuing with something that was working. And even in some ways, really massaging the proportions. We'll see if it's somehow more comfortable. I know that I made a comment in my story that I have found the 143 to be very comfortable, which isn't surprising. I wrote several stories about how I liked that watch, including its comfort. And a lot of people seem to disagree with that. So maybe this will help or make it worse. These are fractional sort of improvements or changes. to the proportions, but I'm excited to see him in person. I assume hopefully that we can maybe get a peek in the next little while. I think they technically hit stores in like June, so lots of time to figure that out. That gives us, you know, a little bit of a run to take one diving as well if we're talking June. Yeah, right. Get it up to the lake or something. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah, yeah, yeah. |
| James Stacy | Other than that, you want to jump into a bit of risk check and get on with your report from the UK? |
| Jason Heaton | Sure, yeah. I sort of- What have you got on today? sort of came correct today. I'm wearing a Bramont again this week, like it was last week, but I switched over to my white dial MB2. Um, particularly because, well, it's, it's a smaller, more comfortable watch than the S 2000. But, uh, one of the things I was able to do while I was at, uh, uh, Bramont, uh, at the wing was got to do sort of a, I guess, abbreviated version of a watchmaking course. I was, it was just me there and I was with one of their watchmakers and, uh, he had me, assemble an MB2, not, not actually the movement itself, but put the movement, put the dial on the movement, fit the hands, um, kind of assemble the Faraday cage, or, or I guess if you want to be proper about it, you know, the iron magnetic shielding components of the case, and then assemble it all with the rotoclick bezel and put it in the case, put the case back on, put the strap on. So it was kind of neat to see, you know, pull back the curtain a little bit and do that. Um, and I thought when I came home, I was like, okay, I'm going to put mine on and now I know what goes into it. So that's what I'm wearing. |
| James Stacy | Very nice. Yeah. Good pick. And, uh, I'm glad, I'm glad you got a chance to kind of like, uh, break down such sort of a, a very Bremer watch. The, uh, the MV really is kind of the core of what they kind of built that brand on for the first, uh, several years of their existence. And, uh, I think it's a cool one for sure. And for me, I don't, I didn't bring a ton of watches down here. I brought the, uh, the red devil Breitling and I brought my Pelagos, uh, 39. So I've got the 39 on today. I just, I don't know. What is there left to say? I love it. It's a great watch. The Breitling's super fun. It needed to come down for the hangout in New Hope. But these days, if I'm wearing a watch, especially in a scenario where I'm maybe not paying a lot of attention to the watch side of my existence as I'm down here for some vacation, the Pelagos is a natural choice. Yeah, definitely. Easy to wear, keeps good time. I sleep with it on. It's great. Yeah, yeah. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah, good call. |
| James Stacy | That's what I've got on. I know it's not exciting, but maybe we'll have something more exciting in the next little while. Sure. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | All right. Well, with wrist check out of the way, let's jump into a little report from your time in England. Obviously we know that you went to the wing and took apart some watches and put them back together and that kind of thing, but I'm sure there was more to it than that. Why don't you run us through the trip, kind of start to finish. |
| Jason Heaton | It was, it was a pretty fantastic trip. You know, I, I flew in last, I got in Wednesday morning about seven, uh, had a little time in Henley to kind of offload myself at a charming little hotel that I had actually stayed at years ago on my first trip to Henley that that's been bought out by new owners and kind of zhuzhed up and refreshed a bit. It's right on the river, uh, which was quite lovely. And then, uh, it was off to the wing and kind of the, I guess the purpose of me going over there was to get a sneak peek at What Bramont is up to for, for 2024, you know, it's, it's kind of been a bit of a buzz lately. And of course, if people have been paying attention to the industry, they'll know that. That Bramont has brought in a new CEO, uh, Davide Charato, who was, um, most famously, I guess, with, with Tudor years ago, he was responsible for introducing the black Bay had a hand in the, our beloved Pelagos design, uh, which was pretty amazing. I mean, he, he kind of. worked wonders with that brand in terms of their relaunch, I guess, in North America specifically. Uh, then he went on to Mont Blanc and, and had a brief tenure with HYT, uh, before Braymont brought him in. So I, it was kind of a chance to meet him and see what they're up to. And the changes are pretty substantial there. I mean, I think, you know, those that are fans of Braymont longtime fans and have followed us over the years, I mean, we, we recorded an episode at their London townhouse many years ago, which was a real highlight for me. I remember that that was a wonderful event. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, it was. |
| Jason Heaton | And, you know, we've spent time with, with the co-founders, Nick and Giles English. Both of them are, have kind of stepped back from day-to-day operational functions at the company, which was a little kind of took some getting used to, you know, when I arrived there, you know, you expect them to be front and center. I mean, you know, greeting me at the door and they were not on site when I went, it was kind of more about. I'm seeing what Davide is up to at the brand and kind of he's, he's one of these hands-on CEOs who gets very much involved with design. And so he's already put his stamp on some new watches, which will be introduced at watches and wonders. And I cannot really talk about them at all here on the show, other than to say, uh, people I think will be surprised when they see them. Um, they're, um, a bit of a departure for Bremont and, uh, I'm, I'm very curious to see what kind of the the general reaction will be among press and the public and retailers when those come out. Um, but you know, aside from that, um, you know, they've got some, they've got some other big changes there, you know, for, for several years they were really pushing the, the, the British watchmaking kind of bringing watchmaking back to, to British shores thing at the wing machining parts and, and engineering and building movements in house. And, they've kind of put that strategy on ice to a certain degree. And they're, they're kind of scaling back with a, with an eye on, I guess, more affordability and, um, kind of platforms that will appeal to a wider audience and, and kind of bring in new markets. And so, you know, Davide, I think is, is something of a master in that regard. He's, he's got a track record with, with the other brands that I mentioned. And so, uh, it was really an opportunity to sit down and meet with him and talk through some of these things and then take a look at some new watches. And so, you know, as I said, I can't really speak much about the watches, but it was a very educational visit to go and, and to meet with him and get some hands on time. And then to just tour the facility. I mean, I have wanted to see the wing as I'm sure you have too, for years. I'm trying to remember what year they opened that. I believe it was just before the pandemic, I believe. |
| James Stacy | 18 or 19. Yeah. But yeah, I haven't been able to make it out there. |
| Jason Heaton | And of course COVID threw a wrench in some of those opportunities and then you know, finally it was, it was kind of a great chance to get over there and tour it. And it's a very impressive place. I mean, it is truly beautiful. I've been to a good number of the Swiss brands, uh, manufacturers and this, this rivals them. It's, it's, it's bright, it's beautiful, big windows. Of course, the architectural design is fantastic. It's shaped like the cross section of a, uh, like a spitfire wing. And they've got a lot of kind of lovely public spaces with old cars and motorcycle and you know, the hood from a, from a jag on the wall and ejection seats and all that you'd expect from, from a visit to Braymont. And then on the second day that I was there, uh, I did get a chance to meet with, with Nick English in a very fun circumstance. Uh, we went flying and, and, you know, Nick has been wanting to, he's been promising to take me flying for many years and, uh, it finally came, came to pass. And I was so pleased. I, I was driven over by Sarah, the, the lovely marketing person at Bramont. We went over to the White Waltham airfield, which is a home to the West London Aero Club. And, uh, first of all, you know, Nick, uh, he wasn't there immediately when we got there. So we parked and went in and this place is, it's a, believe one of, if not the only remaining grass airfield left in, in the UK. And you know, it, it, it's like stepping back in time. There are these big corrugated old Uh, original hangers, uh, kind of around lots of planes, old planes, you know, new and old, uh, parked all over the place. And we went into the, the aero club building and it is like stepping back into some old flying club of the past with a big bar and lots of, you know, photos kind of hung crooked on the walls with old black and white photos of planes and memorabilia and propellers hanging on the wall. And, um, and then we're sitting there and I'm looking out the window and I see this, this loud old plane taxiing across the grass. and pulled up and parked. And I recognized it right away as this 1950s Broussard, which is a French plane that, that Nick and Giles bought many years ago. And it's taxiing across and pulled up. Um, and so I, I ran out to say hello to Nick and it was, it was a great reunion. Hadn't seen him in years and I helped him, uh, fuel up the plane. Then we, uh, we took a little break and went inside and had a cup of coffee and chatted a bit and got caught up. And then we went flying and it wasn't the greatest of days for flying. The cloud deck was a bit low and it was a little sketchy. The, the folks at the airfield were like, Hey, you might not want to go up because, you know, I mean, this is all, you know, visual reference flying at best, you know, so you're, you're on the constant lookout for other planes around. And if there's clouds, it's obviously a hazard. Um, so we kept it low and slow and, and fairly abbreviated, but he didn't manage to, to take me over the wing, which was quite a thrill. We flew over George Harrison's house, which is quite the amazing spectacle. It's this massive, you know, almost like a castle in the woods there. Uh, which was fun. And, uh, Nick, let me take the stick for a bit and do a little bit of flying on my own, which was great. And, uh, then we came back and landed and had to went back in the aero club and had a big plate of curry and a cup of tea. And, and then, uh, he took me on a little tour of, of a couple of the hangers and saw some neat old aircraft that were in there. And I, I drove his Land Rover defender back to the parking lot and then, and then we left. So it was kind of a, kind of a dream morning for me. It was, it was great to see Nick and great to go flying and, um, Uh, really, really, really fun to, uh, to get caught up with him. |
| James Stacy | Um, nice. Yeah. I'm glad to hear it. Yeah. I'm, uh, you know, going back just to the, the Braymont side of it, I'm, I couldn't be more jealous that you got to hang out with Nick and go up in an old play and all that kind of stuff. All things I've wanted to do for years, certainly as long as I've, I've known, uh, Nick and Giles, but, uh, you know, going back to the Braymont thing, you know, I'm, I'm, I remain a little bit worried just because I feel like you and I have loved Braymont for a long time and we might be among the, the cult side of it that would maybe not want things to change expressly. But to be fair, change isn't always a bad thing. And I am interested to see what the new product looks like. And I just hope that people, myself included to be clear, but I hope people like give it a chance to try and understand what's happening. I do hope that they don't necessarily leave some of the bona fides that like helped establish Braymont with a certain type of audience or, you know, you and I included Jason, but it'll be interesting to see what they come out with both for watches and wonders, but then, you know, in the second and third sort of release waves for the year, um, where things can sometimes become a little bit more specific, right? Like sometimes you get some, you get something kind of not random, but more like general world appealing sort of product that watches and wonders. And then in September you get the, right. The, the more like niche core sort of thing. Uh, so we'll see how it goes, but, uh, I'm, I'm pumped that you got up there and, and that's cool. That sounds like a very, like, distinctly Britishy experience to go flying on a grass track and do the Land Rover thing and, and, you know, hang out with Nick. So that, and certainly the stuff you put up on Instagram looked like a blast. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And then, and then, you know, members of the team on the two nights that I was there, uh, took me out for some kind of, uh, the, the, the gastro pub scene in, in that part of England, maybe all over England or the UK is, is booming. And so we went to a couple of kind of elevated pub sort of Dinners which was really quite amazing and you know one thing I was going to mention is you know I as we talked about in our kind of health and fitness show I've been off alcohol since Since New Year's and I was a little concerned. I was like, how am I gonna be able to resist? I'm in an English pub. How do you not have a beer? Yeah, but they've really normalized na beers over there and I think a lot of that comes down to Rules about drinking and driving which are far more strict than we get over here in the US, but you know some really excellent non-alcoholic beers, even on tap there, which I was really quite pleased to see. On tap, really? On tap. Yeah. There's a good one called Lucky Saint. I was going to look and see if it's available outside the UK. Cause you know, if you happen to be in the UK, I can, I can vouch for Lucky Saint. They've got, you know, Guinness, Double Zero, another one called Free Dam, a couple others. So yeah, that was, that was a lot of fun. |
| James Stacy | You know, while we're on the topic, because I realized it is something we totally left out of 274, where we talked about drinking and changing it. Yeah. And then I just would, for whatever reason, we had so many topics to go over. I forgot to add the part, like, it's a lot easier to not drink beer when you have other beer to drink. The, the, not the NA stuff. What do you just, just, you know, two minutes, maybe like what, what is it that you like to drink at home for the NA beer thing? |
| Jason Heaton | Um, there's one called Untitled Art that does a real interesting, kind of a sweeter, darker, I guess it would mimic a porter or a stout. Um, what else is good? I'm trying to think. I've heard good things about the Heineken Double Zero. People keep saying, you've got to try that. |
| James Stacy | It's not bad. Yeah. Yeah. Tastes like a Heineken. Yeah. Largely. Yeah. Cause I mean like I, in my experience, the NA beer comes in two formats, something that genuinely tastes like a beer, but sometimes it's missing something. Yeah. It's like, it's like you pulled one flavor out of the beer. Maybe that's the alcohol. I don't really know. And then there's other ones that kind of tastes like beer and soda water did like, Right. Put together. Yeah. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | And I kind of don't mind either. Yeah. Um, and, and I would say if you like the beer flavored water, I like partake the IPA. It's a good, the green cam. I don't know if you've come across that. Um, but it doesn't hold a candle to athletic brewings. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It like genuinely, I would say like the, the, the thing I could say as an, an IPA fan, I am that guy people make fun of on the internet. I don't really like most beer, but I do like an IPA even like hazy. Yeah. which I understand most people feel tastes like cold dishwater, very much to my liking. And what I can say about the athletic one, and we can move on right after this, but the athletic brewing IPA actually tastes like an IPA. It doesn't taste the same as a Life in the Clouds or a Voodoo Ranger or a Bone Shaker, like some of the big flavors you might know if you like an IPA, but it does do a really good job. And one of those screaming cold, I'm a big, I, I, I, I am at the point. And I said this a little while ago and I got a few people agreed with me and a few people were like, you're insane. But I think I might prefer a screaming cold, uh, athletic brewing to like a life in the clouds from collective arts. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, sure. Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. It's just, they're really good. So I highly recommend them. I meant to, I meant to put that in some sort of an addendum from two 74 and you gave me the opening. So I jumped on it, but let's get back to, uh, get back to the UK report. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, yeah. And a good, a good segue to that is, um, you know, it's a bit of a long winded explanation about this, but, um, on Friday when it was time for me to head into London, my time in Henley was Wednesday, Thursday, basically. And then Friday I was going to move into London and tag on a couple of extra days to my trip. I flew home Sunday morning and knowing that the British watchmakers day show was on Saturday, which I'll get to, um, I had a bit of a free day on Friday. That was kind of my transfer day to get from Henley back into London. And, and Braymont was really kind enough to facilitate a meeting between me and, uh, this guy, Alex, uh, Bescoby who, um, you know, I believe it was on a final notes, uh, quite a while ago, maybe a year or two ago where we talked about the last overland trip. And, uh, definitely we'll get into that with, with our chat that we, that we recorded while I was over there. But, um, they arranged for me to meet with, with Alex Bescoby, uh, who is the I guess current caretaker of this 1955 Land Rover series one that arguably is the most famous one in the world and made the longest journey from London to Singapore back in the fifties and was the subject of a BBC show with David Attenborough, um, a book by one of the participants named Tim Slessor. And then Alex, um, with Tim's blessing and input, um, Tim Slessor, who's still alive and in his eighties. sort of embarked on, on the reverse journey to, to take this old vehicle, which had been refurbished, uh, after it was found on the Island of St Helena, um, and bring it to Singapore and do the drive back to London. And Alex drove, this was a four over a four month trip, many, many thousands of miles, lots of breakdowns, lots of adventures along the way. And so I managed to visit the Braymont boutique, uh, dropped off my bags and then got myself to. Alex's apartment and garage where he's storing Oxford, which is the name of, of this vehicle. The other one that they took was called Cambridge. And he kindly took me for a spin. We went for a short drive through London, which is no small feat in a old vehicle with no, with, you know, no synchro mesh on the, on the gears, um, to kind of go through some heavy London traffic. And, uh, and at some point he said, you know, let's go for a little drive. I'll take you down to the river. And so we pull up to this. dead end street that ended at a pedestrian walkway along the Thames right in London. And he pulls onto the pedestrian walkway and I'm looking around like there's people walking dogs and pushing strollers with kids and bicycles going by. He's like, you know, with a vehicle like this, you sort of get a free pass. And we pulled up and like parked it right across, like in front of a boathouse right at the pedestrian walkway. And of course it drew a huge crowd. People were taking photos and asking questions and then I had brought the microphones along, um, and this, uh, zoom recorder and Alex was kind enough to offer me some of this time. And we, we went to the pub next door and got what he called responsible beers, uh, which amounted to two, um, tap drawn, lucky saints in a nice tall pint glasses. And we sat outside and watched people fawn over this old Land Rover while we had this wonderful chat. And, uh, we'll, we'll play that in a little bit here, but. Yeah, it was a really, really good time. That was a real highlight. I think flying with Nick and driving in Oxford were such highlights, such kind of quintessentially British things to do. That's so nice. With some clear Bremont tie-ins and just- And kind of like little TGM bucket list things too. |
| James Stacy | Totally. Like Oxford, that's like, I don't know, that's like sitting in a famous race car for me. Totally it is. That's really rad. |
| Jason Heaton | It was amazing. That's so cool. It was amazing. And we'll get into that. And it was a lovely chat with Alex. He's a great guy. Friday evening, Arkin, uh, watches, you know, Ken Lamb, who a good buddy of ours, uh, big fan. We're both big fans of his watches. Uh, he kind of co-hosted this happy hour with worn and wound at a pub in Soho that was incredibly well attended. And it was sort of this mingling of people that came for that along with just regular Friday night pub goers. So it was a bit of a bit of a rugby scrum kind of getting around that place. Um, but boy, I met some fun people. I met Dan from the Zulu time podcast, who is a lovely guy, Darren. That's awesome. From Zulu Alpha straps, um, really charming guy. And if you haven't checked out his podcast, uh, it's really fantastic. He's done some great interviews. Uh, Darren is a really wonderful guy and I had a good, good chat with him and, uh, several TGN listeners came. I signed a couple of my books. I mean, it was, it was a really, really fun kind of noisy, raucous time. Um, you know, typical, probably like yours in, in Pennsylvania, just these, these impromptu meetups are so fun. They're the best. |
| James Stacy | It's awesome. |
| Jason Heaton | And it was great to, great to catch up with those folks. And, uh, before I forget, you know, I have to say, I have to give a shout out to one of our listeners, a longtime listener and supporter, uh, Simon, who, when he heard that I was coming to the UK, he kindly offered on behalf of him and his daughter with whom he shares a flat in Battersea in London, um, said, look, if you need a place to crash, you're welcome to stay in our flat. And. Simon was so kind. His daughter was flying out to New York and he spends his weekends up in Norfolk. So it was empty and he said, you know, go ahead, stay here. So he joined on Friday night and then had to leave to take a train up to Norfolk for the weekend. But, um, big shout out, big thanks to Simon and to his daughter for letting me stay there. And, uh, so it was fun to hang out with him as well. And then, uh, and then Saturday was this event that. It was kind of serendipitous timing because, you know, when Bramont invited me over, I really didn't know this was going on. But once I found out, I asked if I could spend a couple of extra days. And, and Saturday was the, the British Watchmakers Alliance, um, held a show called British Watchmakers Day. And it was the first, first of what I'm sure will be many shows at Lindley Hall in London. And it was like, it was kind of like wind up. In fact, it was kind of the same scale of wind up maybe slightly smaller, but very well attended. They had a morning and an afternoon, sessions, I guess you'd call it, you know, you get tickets for either, or I stayed for almost the whole day on a press pass and finally got to catch up and see some brands and see some watches and meet some people that I'd only heard about or known about or seen through social media or through, you know, websites. So dinky worn wound, et cetera. Um, such as, you know, Arkin was there, of course, Ken had a booth and was showing some really amazing watches. He had a special year of the dragon limited edition of his new Alterum, which is pretty incredible dial. He's doing some cool straps for the watches. Got to meet Tom from Clements, who I had met up in Scotland last year, but he has a new Monroe, uh, field watch, which is really beautiful. It's got some colorful dials, which I really am a fan of. Nicholas from fears had a booth and he had a limited edition. Most brands actually had limited edition watches that they made specifically for this show, which was really neat to see. Nice. And fears was one of them. Don from Vertex had a great booth. He had an old BSA dispatch motorcycle at his booth, which was really cool to see. Um, and he actually somehow managed to bring an old British army pistol in. I'm not sure how he got that in the, in the exhibit hall, but that was at his booth and he was waving it around occasionally. And I think it made some people nervous. Uh, Christopher Ward, I think arguably had the most well attended booth. I actually had a hard time getting even close to the table. There were always four or five people deep chatted with, uh, with the folks at Elliott Brown finally got to see. and meet briefly, uh, Giles Ellis from Schofield watches. I've been a big admirer of Schofield. Um, they're big, chunky watches, um, very avant-garde, um, very considered design. He's, he's just such a creative guy. I got to see him. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. The new stuff from them is quite interesting. I think the brand brand new stuff from Schofield. Cause I had my time with their watches years and years ago when I was with a blog to watch. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Um, and, and, you know, used to trade a lot of emails with Giles. And then I was on vacation recently. I, maybe it was when I was in Costa Rica or whatever, and saw the email come in for the, the most recent stuff, which check the show notes for everything Jason's mentioning. Cause I'll find it as, as much as is available. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Big shout out to, uh, to Schofield and the new stuff in working into smaller cases, I think is quite exciting for that brand. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And he even does an amazing job with his packaging. Um, it's all really cool. William Wood was their studio underdog. Was kind of a big hit at the show because they were doing something, I believe in collaboration with time and tide and Andrew McCutcheon was there and they were doing these pizza watches, which aren't my cup of tea, but there was literally a line out the door. I mean, to see these things and they were actually selling them and giving them out at the, at the event, which was unusual. Perfect. And then, uh, of course, uh, Roger Smith, I mean, come on, man, last but not least, uh, you know, arguably one of the greatest living watchmakers, certainly the, the kind of top of the food chain over there in the UK. |
| Unknown | And he was just weirdly the nicest guy. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Nicest guy. |
| Unknown | The nicest, most generous, kindest dude. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. So yeah. And, and like you, you know, we're just getting into, they were auctioning off a series one. I don't, I, it was the bids were through email. Yeah. So I don't know if they set out, if they've announced just what, what the, the winning bid was, but I mean, this is a watch that doesn't exist. Essentially there's 30 of them ish. Yeah. Yeah. Roger doesn't even have one. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And the reserve price was 297,000 pounds. And he just announced, I believe this morning on, on Instagram, he said, he obviously it's very private who wins and for how much, but he said it doubled it more than doubled the reserve price. So we're, we're, we're guessing 600,000 pounds. And then at the event, you know, I got to meet again, a lot of TGN listeners, uh, you know, just, just friends of, of ours, you know, people we both know people we maybe have only known through social media or through slack, et cetera. Um, but, uh, Yeah, it was, uh, it was a good time. And, and I think, you know, some of the, the favorite watches I saw Elliot Brown's beach master was a really cool surprise. Of course, Arkansas, Terram spectacular. The one that. Um, kind of blew me away was Don at vertex was showing a 36 millimeter version of his, I guess the M 100. I think it's going to be called like the M 36 or something. So it's, it's the same size as the original dirty dozen vertex. And, you know, look, I have the bronze version of the 40 millimeter. Um, in 36 in steel and it comes on one of these kind of expanding old school, not bond clip, but you know, the kind like grandpa used to wear that you get your hair caught in. Um, it came on one of these straps with, with screwed, um, strap bars. I mean, it's just like, it was mind blowing. I've tried it on. It's just a incredible piece. And so I'm, I'm, I'm really looking forward to that. And then he's kind of doing that in commemoration of the 80th anniversary of D day. So yeah, really, really amazing. So. You know, that was kind of my, my, my visit. I stayed most of the day and then I walked back to, to the apartment where I was staying and managed to grab a bite to eat at the Battersea power station, which was kind of a highlight to kind of check that out. But then I was in bed by eight o'clock and that was a long day. I was, I was pretty zapped. Other than that, I mean, again, thanks again to Simon and his daughter for letting me stay there. And then also to, um, to Steve Britain, one of our TGN listeners, longtime buddy, who. had promised to give me this book that Land Rover published years ago called Icon. It's a big coffee table book, but obviously shipping to the U S was a bit prohibitive. So he said, if you're ever in the UK, I'll hand it off. And, and he actually shipped it to, to the wing at Bremont and I tucked it in my suitcase and brought it home. So, uh, thanks, uh, thanks to, uh, to Steve for that. And then of course, to Bremont for, for flying me over and spending the time with me and then organizing this wonderful interview with Alex Bescoby. He was kind enough to. take some time on a busy afternoon to take me for that drive that I mentioned and sit down with me. Alex Bescoby is a, he's an award-winning documentary filmmaker. Uh, he's an author. He recently wrote a book called the last overland about that, that journey I mentioned. Um, and kind of a trained historian and his company is called grammar productions. It's an independent film production company, um, that kind of aims to make documentaries that delve deeper into history. Uh, look at people in societies around the world. As I mentioned, Blast Overland, he drove 21,000 kilometers from Singapore to London, and this kind of retraced the steps of one of history's greatest road journeys. So it was a, it was a channel four documentary series. And as I mentioned, a book, and we will throw a link in the show notes to that. So here's my interview with Alex. And just before we get into that, I'll mention that it was recorded outside along the Thames at a pub. And so you might hear some ambient noise, but I think, uh, I think it's passable. So let's check it out. All right, Alex Bescoby, thanks for coming on The Great NATO on such short notice here. Thank you, Jason. |
| Alex Bescoby | And what a setting for it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, we are currently sitting at a pub out here on the Thames. We drove Oxford over from the garage here with lots of eyeballs on us over a lot of speed bumps that we felt. And we've pulled up right on the pedestrian walkway in front of a rowing club. And here we are sitting having a pint of beer. It's a lovely day. |
| Alex Bescoby | So I'll give you the quintessential British experience. It's it truly is obviously normally we're very very rule-abiding but when you're driving a 1954 series one that looks like that. Yeah, I get away with parking anywhere Yeah for now, although we're both watching it in case we get a ticket exactly Well, let's let's back up for our listeners here I mean we we featured |
| Jason Heaton | The Last Overland series is one of our, we do a final notes at the end of the show where we recommend various things for our listeners. And that was one of them a while back. Thank you. Um, and you've written a book with the same title. Um, but you know, for maybe people that are new to the show or are unfamiliar, um, let's, uh, let's rewind a little bit. Can you give us a little background on, well, let's talk about you in a little bit, but first let's jump, let's cut to the chase here. Talk about this project and how it all came about. |
| Alex Bescoby | happily to the car that we're now staring at. And there's now a crowd gathering around on the banks of the Thames. The last overland was my attempt to recreate history's greatest road trip, which was the first overland the first successful overland drive from London to Singapore back in September 1955. They set off getting to Singapore in March 1956. And it was historic because At that time, it was the two furthest poles of the British Empire. You had, you know, London over here and Singapore on the far side of the Asian continent. And it had been the what they call the unclimbed Everest of motoring. So people had set off from London and they'd driven as far as India, but no one had managed to get across Burma. And these guys were the first to manage it, thanks to the Americans who had bulldozed a road across northern Burma during World War Two, which they had, you know, vinegar Joe Stillwell, It was his idea. And it was a road that was built when the Americans were trying to keep the Chinese nationalist forces in the war. So America and China fighting on the same side against Japanese. And the road was actually really never used for its purpose, because the war ended by the time it was finished. But a few years after the war ended, these guys set off six young lads from Oxford and Cambridge in two Land Rovers called Oxford and Cambridge. And they took that road, which finally allowed them to connect to Thailand and get all the way down to Singapore. |
| Jason Heaton | Were they sponsored by Land Rover? I mean, Land Rover provided the vehicles or did they actually buy them? |
| Alex Bescoby | It was, you know, we think about sort of like branded content and, you know, you know, sponsored expeditions is a kind of, you know, a very modern thing, but they had exactly the same idea. These guys, they wanted to go on a historic journey and they knocked on the door of the Rover company and said, you know, could we in return for some PR? Yeah. borrowed two of your brand new vehicles as they were then this is this is modcon yeah and the rover company said yeah yeah go on then why not and they've been getting 70 years of PR out of it so yeah you know as PR managers listening out there that is a dream conversion that's right there yeah so the first trip was called uh first overlap right there was a book written by one of the one of these these guys that did the trip tim slesser um and |
| Jason Heaton | When you cooked up the idea for Last Overland, he had some involvement in it. |
| Alex Bescoby | What was his idea? Yeah. To be fair. Oh, really? Yeah. So I had this idea. I'd grown up. I learned to drive in a Series 1. My dad was a Series 1 fanatic. I'd read the first Overland. I went to Cambridge, you know, where these guys were. It was always kind of there in the background. Yeah. And I had this idea that I'd sort of fallen into documentary making. And my two great loves were history and travel. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | So the idea of recreating history's greatest road trip was just, it was always up there as the thing I wanted to do. And when I bumped into this car at the 70th anniversary weekend up in Anglesey back in 2018, the owner, Adam, who restored this car from St Helena in the middle of the South Atlantic, which is a story all in itself, I said, oh, can I borrow this car and recreate this journey? That was a bold ask. Yeah, but it just felt like, you know, when fate comes knocking. And he said, yeah, but you must know that you're not the first one to have that idea. You gave me Tim's number and I had no idea that Tim was still alive. You know, I thought, well, he must be getting on now. And he was 87 when I first made contact with him. And I said, look, you know, could I have your blessing to, um, to, to do this? And he said, absolutely. When do we go? And I'm thinking, oh crap, you know, I've just now somehow committed to taking an 87 year old man on a journey that will almost certainly kill him. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | That is, that was where The Last Overland was born, really. The idea of, you know, this grand old adventurer who, even though he'd gone on to have an incredible life after this, he did this when he was 22 years old. Amazing, yeah. But he'd gone on to be a filmmaker at the BBC and, you know, written books and films, but this journey had made him, I think. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, yeah. For one thing, that was also a fantastic book, First Overland. I mean, if anybody out there hasn't read that, Tim Slesha's book First Overland is such an amazing account of their trip. certainly you reversing that route. It was a very, um, the world's different. I mean, right. So, so you had some other challenges that didn't necessarily involve a plowed road through the Burmese jungle. It was, there were other things to consider as well. You had to alter your route because of geopolitical issues and things like that. Right? Absolutely. |
| Alex Bescoby | I mean, I guess the beautiful thing about, um, London and Singapore is, you know, those two locations never move. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | They are static. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | the route between them, that tells you a lot about the state of the world. So back in the fifties, these guys, they set off through Europe, drove down through Yugoslavia, you know, no longer exists. They went through Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, because that was the peaceful sort of peaceful middle east, you know, very, very gentle, lots of sightseeing and shopping and that sort of thing. Water skiing in Lebanon and water skiing in Lebanon. Beautiful. Um, you know, And and they filmed all this obviously, which the British public who are watching this, you know, 56 when it came out 57 must be astonishing for them. Yeah, but you know, so yeah, fast forward to 2019. We obviously, the Middle East was not that place anymore. Yeah, you know, Syria was in a civil war, Iraq was flirting with one. I think Donald Trump just picked a fight with the Mullers in Iran, you know, that was really heating up. And Afghanistan, you know, was about to tip in the way we now know, I mean, the Taliban were about to retake it. Yeah. And Pakistan was just a little bit kind of unstable. So we thought, look, we'll, we'll first of all reverse the journey. So we'll start in Singapore and come home. But when we get to Nepal, we'll take a detour. We'll go to a part of the world that was completely cut off in the 50s. We'll go into China. Yeah. Which back in 55, I mean, it was just emerging from a civil war. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Right. |
| Alex Bescoby | So, you know, after the Second World War, the nationalists, they win the war, but they lose the peace. They lose the civil war of China. Mao Zedong wins, takes over, annexes Tibet. That's happening around this time. And then Central Asia was all part of, you know, under Stalin's grip. And the idea of driving through what was then the USSR, places like Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, was fanciful. to Brits in the fifties. So we were so excited. Tim was very excited to be able to open up this whole new chapter. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. So similar challenges, different, different route, different geography. Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | It just shows you that in, you know, in one human lifetime, let's say 65 years between the two journeys, kind of, you know, low average life expectancy in Glasgow. I think it's shows you that in that space of time, three things happened. The British empire vanished. Right. It was still a going concern in 55. Yeah. Very much so in some parts of the world. You know, decolonization would take another 20, 30 years. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | The USSR was very much a, you know, who could have known that it was going to fall apart. Right. 40 years later, you know, there was a, you know, the Cold War was just getting started. Yeah. But 2019 vanished. Right. And China, which in 55 was a basket case. I mean, you know, it had been torn up by multiple civil wars. the Brits had had a good go at completely destroying it in the 19th century. You know, but fast forward to 2019, a global superpower, and you could feel its presence everywhere from Singapore, all the way through to Germany, all the way. And that's one human lifetime. So it makes you think in 65 years time from now, you know, the how different the world will look when you try and drive, you know, between those two places. |
| Jason Heaton | So we've got these sort of geopolitical, logistical issues, and then, of course, the other side of this, and genuine points of interest among all of that, all the things you just talked about. But then we have the vehicular side of it, and, you know, being the owner of an old Land Rover myself, not nearly as old as this one, I'm daily confronted by the fact that modern roads are really not well-suited, or vice versa. The vehicles are not as well-suited for the roads these days. Okay, so here's a little side note. Whenever I plan a longer road trip in my old Land Rover, I always do a Google map and I choose the bicycle option because it doesn't put you on interstates and big highways and things like that. Yeah. How did you go about choosing the route that would be suitable for this vehicle? Because presumably you don't want to be on motorways like high speed motorways. |
| Alex Bescoby | No, I mean, I guess it's a really good question. You know, in some places you didn't have the choice. Yeah. You know, the two ends of that spectrum were Nepal. some of the worst roads I've ever driven on anywhere in the world. That wasn't a nice option in some places. And even there, we decided to really push it. We went up to a village to meet some World War II veterans, some Gurkha World War II veterans who'd, you know, fought for Britain in the Second World War. And it sounded like a great idea, but they lived basically on top of a mountain. And we took that thing up what felt like a dried out kind of glacial riverbed. You know, it made it, but pushed it to one extreme. And then the other extreme is driving it down the German autobahns. where you've got no speed limit. And you're driving in that. And it honestly feels like you're stationary when some of these cars go past you. You're doing 60 miles an hour and this car just goes... And it's quite terrifying. But no, I mean, the thing is, you know, it is capable. And that's the beautiful thing about a car that was designed in 1947, built in 54. It can still take on almost anything. So there wasn't that much consideration. I mean, you know, we just wanted to get there kind of as fast as we could. You know, we weren't, the guys back in the fifties, they could take their sweet time, but we were making a TV show, you know, people have families and we need to get home. So we went as fast as we reasonably could in a car that kept breaking down everywhere. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And how long did it take you? Four and a half months. Four and a half months. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Wow. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And speaking of breakdowns, so, you know, obviously any vehicle challenging, you know, tackling that type of a journey will have issues. I would presume even modern vehicles, probably not as many issues, but What were some of the serious ones? I remember watching the TV series. I think at one point an axle broke or a wheel flew off and you lost all your brake fluid and oil out of the axle. |
| Alex Bescoby | Oh my word. I mean, I guess the short answer to what happened is everything broke. Yeah. You know, everything that could have failed, failed. Yeah. But the beautiful thing about this thing is it's basically immortal. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | You know, it's so simple, beautifully simple that you, you know, I say me, I'm not particularly good at this sort of thing, but our brilliant mechanic, Dr. Sil, put her back together. And so did so many mechanics. I mean, you see it now people are taking photos of it, people are gathering around it. There were Land Rover mechanics across the world whose, you know, decade was made. Yeah. When this car broke down in their workshop. Yeah. You know, it is a piece of history. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | And for those that know, it's it is like, you know, doing, I don't know, surgery on the Queen or something like it's just, it is something you don't forget in a long time. Yeah. But the most catastrophic moment was in a country called Turkmenistan, which I honestly hadn't really heard of before we went through it. And we were given five days to get in and out of Turkmenistan. It's a very repressive place. It lets in fewer tourists every year than North Korea. It's not a particularly friendly place. And we were 10 minutes in and the detachable half axle of the Series 1 which I did not know it had. Who has a detachable half axle? It's ridiculous. It basically means that, for those that are less mechanically minded, the back axle is split in two deliberately. And we broke a wheel bearing going over a particularly bad pothole. And it just slipped out. Driving at 60 miles an hour. Took the brakes with it. So the only thing that stopped the car was the back rear left hand hub dragging along the tarmac for a good half mile. And it was, it was pretty scary. But what was scary, I think, was the realization that if that had happened in Nepal, you know, where they were like fat thousand foot drops. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | We'd have been dead. Yeah. Just thank God it chose to happen in Turkmenistan. It was just flat as a pancake. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And speaking of your, your entourage or your mechanics and things, did you, do you, you were followed by more modern vehicles carrying spares and tools and things like this? Or did you have to source things where you were? |
| Alex Bescoby | I mean, I remember the guys in, in Turkmenistan. They'd never seen a Land Rover before. The guy was so baffled. He was like, why didn't you come in a BMW? I've got loads of BMW parts. He wasn't even joking. He was just, he was furious about this. And he managed to actually make a wheel bearing from scratch. Just did it in his, you know, tooled it from scratch, which was wonderful. But no, we did have two, we had a, a 2001 Defender 90. Yeah. And we had a 2015 Defender 110. And you know what? Given what people say about Land Rovers, they were incredibly reliable. In fact, the clutch fell off the 90 when we got just outside Calais. So right at the end, the clutch went. And the other one, the 2015 110, was flawless. Not a single problem with it for 21,000 kilometers. |
| Jason Heaton | Incredible. Wow. Wow. |
| Alex Bescoby | So, yeah, we had a very small crew, you know, just there were eight of us all together. |
| Jason Heaton | On the human side of things, there was an interesting development, which, you know, anybody who watches the show, you've discovered early on. And it's obviously in the book, I'm sure, which I haven't read yet. But Tim ultimately could not make the trip because of for for one reason or another. Right. Tell us about that and sort of the the silver lining to that. |
| Alex Bescoby | Yeah. I mean, in quite dramatic style, for anyone who's watched episode one or read my book. We got the whole caravan to Singapore. And you know, we are literally on the start line. It is it is flag off day. And I went to wake him up in his hotel room in Singapore. And he collapsed in the night. And we ended up taking him to intensive care in Singapore. And, you know, so whatever sort of genie had been driving him, you know, he knew he was pushing it. Yeah. But he got a severe lung infection on the plane over, we figured out later. And it just KO'd him. And thankfully he recovered. But he was in hospital, and I had to basically stand on the stage in front of like a thousand people. And there were 98 Land Rovers from all across Singapore. And the Singaporean government had closed the road, police escort. And I basically stand on the stage and go, I'm really sorry, but the star of the show isn't here. But we had spoken to Tim's grandson, a lovely guy called Nat who we said, look, you know, the sponsors and everybody, including Tim were being realistic saying, look, if, if he wants to bow out at any time, we'd really like it if somebody from the family, you know, could carry the bat on. So I spoke to Nat and this is, you know, now I didn't know him from Adam. And, uh, was he just there? He was just there to see you off. He brought his grandpa out and he'd been ready to sort of step in at any moment, but none of us really expected it to happen on day one. Yeah, it was mad. And you can see in the footage that now is not ready. Yeah. And this is a guy like he didn't, he'd never read his grandpa's book. He's not a big traveler. Yeah, I think he'd driven from London to Newcastle. Yeah, that was kind of it. You know, didn't like Land Rovers. Yeah, didn't you know, he just said, I'll do it for my grandpa. And then he got dragged into this kind of, you know, four month odyssey. Yeah. And it turned out for anyone who watches the show, or the book that what an absolute gem of a human being is. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it kind of turned out to be this one of those unscripted moments that you couldn't have even cooked up as, you know, I mean, Tim's grandson steps in at the last minute and turns out to be a crack of golden moments. And, you know, I mean, it's, yeah, it was, it was, it was truly incredible. Um, yeah, so, so, you know, your intention at the beginning of this, uh, was that you, you're, you're maybe, and this is a good chance to kind of segue into your own background and what you do and why you considered you know, doing a film. I mean, that's kind of your thing, right? You're a filmmaker, a documentarian. I know you're a historian as well. And tell us a little about your background, I guess. You had some experience in Burma as well, right? Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | So it all goes back to history. Always my favorite subject. I studied history at uni. So I went to Cambridge, where Tim and some of the boys were. And I'd ended up studying modern Burmese history. So I went there on a I got the scholarships going out to Thailand and Myanmar, as it is now. And I just completely became obsessed with this place. And anyone who's been, I think maybe will understand. It's just, it's incredible. And there is an amazing connection there that, you know, it was part of the British Empire, but many people forget that. But it had a profound impact on that country that can still be felt today. And that was kind of the subject of my university work. But I then, as the country started to open up just about that time, I moved out there, made a home there, and I started making documentaries, sort of exploring the post-colonial history of Myanmar through different ways. And I made films about World War II, I made films about the royal family, and then I started moving into travel. I made the first travel documentary crossing the whole of Myanmar. back in 2018. This is before it all really fell apart. Yeah. Um, so I was, I was making, you know, sort of making a career as a travel filmmaker, uh, and a journalist of sorts. And I'd stumbled on the story of the first overland again, because I was researching the Burma road, this American road that had been built. And I realized that one of the last cars to ever drive it was this one. And it just, this can knock it on the head. So Yeah, I thought that I could just recreate, you know, the Burma bit. Yeah. The Burma road had disappeared into the jungle and what was there. But when I said that to Adam, he said, no, it's the whole thing or nothing. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | So, you know, it's a series of escalating dares. Yeah. I think it's the best way to describe The Last Overland. Yeah. But yeah, for me, it just ticked so many boxes. You know, it allowed me to really sort of, you know, strengthen that bond with my dad because he was a massive Land Rover fan. Yeah. It allowed me to make a film about history, which is what my first passion and it allowed me to go on a great adventure. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| Alex Bescoby | And very practically allowed me to drive home because I was, I wanted to sort of relocate back to the UK. So yeah, you could fly, but why not drive? |
| Jason Heaton | I mean, to me, I think, I think to myself, like that, that all the elements that came together for this story, the human element, history, your own connection with, with Burma slash Myanmar, um, the connection with your father, Tim's story and Nat and, Um, I mean, I hate to say it, but you kind of peaked early. I mean, this is like, how do you, how do you possibly, this is like the grandest adventure I think almost anybody could conceive of. And I don't, I don't want you to give away any secrets. If you've got something else cooking up here, are you going to the moon or something? But like, you know what? |
| Alex Bescoby | It's so interesting. Cause Tim said exactly that to me about it to me about himself. He said that by the time he was 22, he had gone to war. So he fought in Malaya. Oh, what was you know, Malaysia, he fought in the Malayan emergency when he was 19. So before he went did this, he then gone to university. He'd made history. Yeah, we're doing this road trip. He'd written a best selling book. Yeah, he'd made one of the first travel shows on British television. And then he got a job at the BBC. And you know, his dream job and he this is all before by 22. Yeah. And he says, you know, A little bit after that, everything's a bit of an anticlimax. And he was working with David Attenborough back then. A young David Attenborough, amazing connection there. So I hope not. I mean, I guess, I hope there are plans, but I think, I do reflect on it now, and you don't realise it at the time, just how momentous that is. And I often, when I do a book signing or something, and people go, could you write something in there? Always write the same thing. And it's not because I'm being lazy. It's enjoy the journey. Yeah. It's so cliche. Yeah. Yeah. But that was so amazing. And I was so stressed through most of it. And I was so distracted by dealing with sponsors, dealing with crew, what was coming next, what just happened. You know, you don't get to, you don't enjoy it when you're in it. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. Yeah. And I think I say peak early, but it also means that it can open some doors and there's also this, you know, this whole mindset of, you know, seize the day and like you don't know I mean, look, knock on whatever this table's made out of, it's your, you know, you don't know you'll, you'll be around another five years like you just do things as they come, you know, grab it and run with it. |
| Alex Bescoby | So it's absolutely have to I do I do feel like that. I think as I got slightly older, I'm realizing that I think I spent the last 20 years of my life living like that, and then you start to get quite exhausted. So I have sort of settling down, getting married, doing those sort of things. I have a house for the first time in my life. So there's a little bit of slowing down going on, but in a way that I feel like, look, if that was it, then, you know, I'm very blessed. But we are planning something even bigger. So the dream is, most of your audience are American, I imagine, but There's only one road that's longer than London-Singapore. |
| Jason Heaton | Is it Alaska to Tierra del Fuego? |
| Alex Bescoby | It is absolutely the Pan American Highway. Sure. And I have, in my locker, the first car that ever drove the whole length of that road. A 1971 Range Rover. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. So it's sitting in a lovely museum in Surrey, ready to go. We're just trying to raise the money to do that and get the TV deal tied up. But I'm hoping next year we'll be setting off on that. Blashford? John Blashford Snell. Yeah, still around. He just came back from a horse riding expedition in Mongolia. He's pushing 90. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | He's not joining you, is he? |
| Alex Bescoby | I'll leave it up to John, but no, he's definitely, definitely, definitely given me his blessing. Um, I mean, John is a living legend, you know, that was just the beginning of his, you know, many, many other adventures, but yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And talk about human stories along the way and history and geopolitical concerns and things that, that, that has, equal amount of stories. |
| Alex Bescoby | Well, I've got obsessed with the story of the Pan American Highway because the Pan American Highway is an idea that's about 150 years old. And if you follow the story of the Pan American Highway, it is the story of the Americas. And it is an incredible story of inter-American sort of brotherhood and animosity and the way that the two continents of North and South America have sort of grown closer and further apart. And I think again, like that road between, you know, London and Singapore, the road between Alaska and Seattle Fuego, depending on where you, which point in time you drop in, it tells you so much about what's going on in the Americas. Yeah. Yeah. And so for me, being able to compare the early seventies to the early 2020s is as a historian is fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. It's so I, yeah, that's my dream at the moment. Any American listeners out there who want to fund that journey, get in touch. |
| Jason Heaton | That's amazing. That's an amazing thing. And arguably, well, not arguably, that would be definitely a more comfortable ride, a Range Rover over a series. |
| Alex Bescoby | Slightly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. How do you feel about it? You had a little go in Oxford on the way here? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it was very civilized and it's in very good shape. Yeah. It's, you know, the back door flew open at one point going over a speed bump. Shh, don't tell anyone that. It shut itself, which is the beauty of it. That's true. You just slam on the brakes and the door slams shut. Yeah, the door shut itself. |
| Alex Bescoby | Yeah. Yeah. She has a, she has a, a wicked personality. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I think it was funny when I met you, you know, you're in this end of this very labyrinthine sort of road in London and you backed it out of this very narrow garage space. And it was, it was such a pleasure to see that pop out. It's of course now everybody's stopping to take photos. We've got it in front of the rowing club. I'm going to hear them on the, they're on the rowing machines, the ergs over there doing their, doing their training, getting ready for the oxen and Cambridge boat race. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we couldn't have planned it better. We couldn't fitting. Well, I certainly can't, we can't close out this, uh, this chat without a nod to, um, our friends at, uh, Bremont watch company. I was just visiting them up in Henley for the past couple of days and you're wearing an alt one C and I'm wearing my supermarine and they graciously arranged this on very short notice. And so I appreciate your time. |
| Alex Bescoby | And I also want to shout out a thanks to, to Bremont and, uh, well, they were one of the sponsors of the last overland and you know, I've worked with them ever since. If you're going to take on a mad adventure that involves a Land Rover, they are the perfect brand. I think you're right. If you've met the English brothers, you'll understand why. |
| Jason Heaton | Yes. Well, our beers are almost gone here and it's probably time or probably overstaying our welcome with a vehicle parked on a pedestrian walkway. So with that, I think we'll close out. Alex, I appreciate your time and thanks for joining us. Pleasure. Thank you, Jason. |
| James Stacy | All right, well, that was a fascinating and super fun chat with Alex. Basically, thanks so much to Alex for making that possible and finding the time with Jason and Jason for taking the gear over there and and being available for a pub recording. Kind of my favorite type of audio feels like you're right in the space, which is which is super fun. So that's fascinating. And I mean, look, you just listen to the conversation. But if you haven't watched The Last Overland, I haven't read the book, to be fair. But if you haven't watched the special from 2022, do check it out. Absolutely worth your time. Really, really fantastic piece of documentary that falls right in the TGN zone as well. Talk about something that not only would I have loved to have been in some way a part of, but also something I would have loved to have covered in some way. Just a very, very cool, well-told story. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it was great. |
| James Stacy | All right. How about a little final notes? We'll get this one wrapped up while I'm still on vacation. Yeah, right. |
| Jason Heaton | My final note is, um, a podcast that I downloaded and listened to on my flight over to England last week. Um, and it's, uh, it's a podcast that by a guy named Peter Attia that was mentioned actually in Slack in response to our health and fitness episode. Um, Peter Attia is a doctor who has a particular focus on all things kind of health and fitness. And he sat down with the founder of GORUCK, Jason McCarthy, who was a former U.S. Green Beret, special forces. who founded this well-known company now that not only makes backpacks now, but footwear and clothing, et cetera, and kicked off arguably kind of a, a movement around rocking, you know, putting weight in a backpack and just moving around as a form of exercise, uh, and challenge. And, you know, A lot of podcast interviews and, you know, we do our share of them, you know, you, you get people who, you know, are good at it. Aren't good at it. Um, maybe aren't the best conversationalists. I found both these guys just utterly captivating in not only what they were talking about, but just the back and forth and the ease with which they were chatting. And this was, I believe it was a, could have been a two and a half hour. podcast interview, which is quite long, but McCarthy's an incredibly well-spoken guy, his background, they've really covered the specifics of his decision to go into the military, his time in the green berets, what it took to found go rock. Okay. And, uh, kind of, kind of the basics of rocking and what I really appreciated about it was a Tia asked questions that a lot of podcast interviews, they, they make certain assumptions about what the listener may or may not already know. And then kind of skip over the, some of the basics and the nitty gritty. And I, I really appreciated that he asked very specific questions and McCarthy was more than happy to answer them in, in long form replies in a very articulate way. So, um, definitely worth listening to. I think, um, I'm a big fan of go rock. Obviously, you know, rocking is a big part of my life these days as I'm training for the fan dance. And, uh, yeah, uh, I, I really do plan on, on listening to more of these, uh, Peter Atiyah podcasts, cause I think he's great. So check it out. |
| James Stacy | I think, yeah, I think for a lot of people like Peter Atiyah hit my radar back because of Tim Ferriss. Like when, when the first idea of like this whole optimizing body hacking wave kind of crushed, it was, it was like really clear that he was the sort of front runner from a medical perspective. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | And I've met Peter twice. He's a huge watch nerd. Uh, he, you know, he was wearing a Bubba Watson Richard Mill when he showed up at the Hodinkee office one day, uh, really, really friendly, super intelligent guy. And I've definitely heard him on a lot of podcasts and I've listened to at least one episode of his. And I think, look, if you're already into, especially longevity, which is his core focus, I would say these days, less so maybe the body hacking and the rest of it. But if you're already into that, you already know Peter Thiel, but like, if you're just curious, give this guy a chance. His books are incredible. I think his perspective is all very medically driven. And I think he's just kind of a fascinating presence in the space. And to see him going into the GORUCK thing makes a lot of sense to me, the fitness side of it, the, you know, the concept of a workout or an exercise that really relies on like all around, like generalized body strength and conditioning, I think is really good. So I'm glad that was a good one and definitely have since added it to my listen list for Pocket Casts. |
| Jason Heaton | It was good. All right. How about you? You got something really fun. You sent me a picture of this. I think it's awesome. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. Yeah. So this one, this arrived about a half hour before we started recording this. Um, so I've only just had it a few minutes and it was, I wanted to have it on a final notes. At some point I had a different final notes in, in the list for today. And then I changed it because that's the day the mailman showed up just, just moments ago. And, uh, where to start with this silly story. So the first one is, I came across an ad on my Instagram for a surplus shop called Americana Pipe Dream. And the ads are chaotic. They're a little vulgar. They're really fun. I like them. I like the tone. It's it's a bunch of very seemingly very young guys running a surplus company that has sort of a sketchy website is how they're just I've I'm not sure they describe it that way, but I've seen it described that way in comments. It doesn't necessarily feel like a hyper modern website, but I saw them and it was a really funny Instagram video they had showing off some jackets that they'd bought too many of and were selling for like $30. I believe these were American infantry issued jackets. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Pretty common sort of stuff. And I got curious and then I forgot about it. That's how Instagram ads work. Yeah. I, you know, I, I scrolled along to the next reel and forgot. And then eventually I got served another ad for them and another one. And so I was like, fine, I'll, I'll check this out. I go to their website. It is a little chaotic. I really like it. And I'm searching around just like you can pick based on the country that the gear comes from, or you can just kind of look at all of it. I was kind of looking at all of it. And, and I, I have to admit, like, I am obviously known to the point of a meme, my like green jacket from the gap that I, that I've worn and lots of stuff. And, and I, I like, I like some military sort of silhouettes and cuts and colors. But I do personally, and I think I've talked about this on TGM before, like I do have some trouble with camo because it can feel pretty serious to wear it. And I think I like every now and then, you know, I really like the lizard camo strap from Kill Hubris. Oh yeah. Because it's, you know, it's a French, I think it's a French foreign legion camo, if I remember correctly, my apologies if I got that wrong, but it's a fun pattern. It looks cool. It's a little bit more lighthearted than the digital stuff. The stuff that's, it feels a little bit more like directly tied to military. Anyways, this is a long way of saying I bought a jacket from Americana Pipe Dream. It is a Belgian M90 jigsaw jacket. I've always liked the jigsaw camo. In the photos on American Pipe Dream, it definitely looked like the green tone was more blue. So it looked blue, kind of gold drab, maroon, and then black. And in person, it's close to that, but the blue is much more green. So it's much more of a conventional camel than I was kind of expecting in terms of a color balance. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | But the jacket was $68 Canadian, which is like 45 bucks. And I bought a medium, which they said would fit. And I didn't believe them and it fits. So kudos to them. It's probably like a 41 medium. And I just really like it. Uh, it's, it's wild enough that it doesn't feel like I've gone like, like I'm trying to say that I was in the military. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | It's also, you know, being a Belgian thing, obviously I like Canada's history in the armed forces world in World War II in Belgium. So that kind of connects. Yeah. And then I just liked that the colors are a little bit more lighthearted, a little bit more interesting than two greens, a black and a darker color, like, you know, in a contrast of some sort. Yeah. So yeah, that's the issued Belgian jigsaw field jacket from Americana Pipe Dream. But mostly I would say this is less about this specific jacket. and more just a chance to try Americana Pipe Dream. They have a ton of stuff on their website. They have a really funny Instagram. Maybe don't watch it with your kids, depending on your policy on bad language, but that's all fine. And yeah, Americana Pipe Dream, the entire experience was exactly what you'd want. It was simple, straightforward. I paid quickly, it shipped quickly, it showed up exactly when they said it would, and I really liked the jacket. So if you see me wearing a truly kind of ridiculous camo jacket at like watches and wonders. And I don't know if I can work this with a tie. We're going to find out though. Yeah. Um, uh, that's where I got it. And, and I have to agree with the first commenter on the page who said that, uh, truly the drippiest European camo in existence. Uh, and, and I can, I can only agree. I'm, I'm really a fan. I would be even more fan if it was as blue as the one they photographed in this, but maybe this one will fade to that color. I don't know. I'll, I'll, I'll wear it and enjoy it. And if I, if I, maybe it'll be more of the cottage jacket or maybe I'll find a way to make it more of like a, a more common piece of the uniform. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. It looks amazing. And the picture you sent of you wearing it definitely is a better photo than, I mean, looking at the link you sent me earlier, I was like, what, what are they trying to camouflage themselves among? |
| James Stacy | What would you camo from? That's it. Well, this was my, my seven year old was like, there's no, that's not real camo. Yeah. I said, this is a color still worn, I believe. Like it's a pattern in color and still worn by several armies, including the armed forces for Belgium. Um, and then, uh, so my girls don't believe that it's a real color or a real camo, but I like that it's, it has that sort of a funness where that makes it a little bit more lighthearted, maybe a little bit more applicable to like street fashion or something like that. Then, then a more hardcore, uh, or the, or the more, you know, like I think the look, especially with that green jacket I have from the gap is it's that sort of like Vietnam look, which is, Cool. I like it a lot. Right. But I also have to be really careful. You know, I think the, the thing I learned from my wife was like, camo's fine, but you get one. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. Like if you're wearing a camo, if you have a camo bag, you don't also wear a camo jacket. Right. And don't get me wrong. I may, I may try and get a pair of pants in this jigsaw, but I won't wear both at the same time. I promise. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. That, that would be a little, yeah. |
| James Stacy | Maybe at the cottage. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. But yeah, the the head to toe would be would be too too much for sure. But this was fun. I had a good time. I didn't know when it would arrived and arrived just in time for the recording. So yeah, check it out in the show notes if you want to see the patterning. It's got some great pockets and a big stiff collar, lots of room for a sweater despite being a medium. So really good. And I'm definitely a fan. And I think at this point, I love finding stuff like this because the stuff on their sites, not that expensive. Some of it is, but for the most part, it's a lot of like affordable stuff. |
| Background noise/undetermined | Yeah. |
| James Stacy | And it just makes the coolest gift. |
| Jason Heaton | They've actually got an $11,000 Luftwaffe World War II Glashütte chronograph on their site, which is amazing. |
| James Stacy | Oh, there you go. I didn't, had not come across any watches. |
| Jason Heaton | But the one I'm looking at, speaking of sweaters, they have a British RAF Woolly Pulley, so a commando sweater and it looks amazing. I wish I hadn't seen this. My collection of commando sweaters is already too big, but this blue color is lovely. |
| James Stacy | So you found the blue one. If you're looking at it right now, cause I don't have it on my screen. I was going to buy one of those for you and have it delivered with this jacket, but they didn't have, they only had small and X small, I think. And the sizing on the site would have been too small for you. Oh yeah. And I think right now you and I would be almost the same size and stuff. Yeah. Me maybe, maybe slightly bigger. But yeah, so sit tight on that one. I'll see if I can snag you one when they restock or, or if it showed, maybe it shows that they've got large and maybe a medium would work. |
| Jason Heaton | But I'm seeing a large and blue here. This is pretty gorgeous. Oh man. Okay. Anyway. Yeah. They're fun. Yeah. All right. Well, good one. |
| James Stacy | Very, very good. Shout out to Americana Pipe Dream for sure. And also to Peter Tiafer's podcast. So that's, uh, that's final notes. Yeah. That was a fun episode and always nice to have another chat on, especially one that we like didn't have to plan for or ship a microphone or any of that kind of stuff. |
| Jason Heaton | So yeah, really good stuff. Well, we hope you enjoyed the episode and as always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode. And we leave you with this quote from William Butler Yates, who said, |